267: On Marc by Sofia, Love Story, Kirsten Dunst

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast – Episode 267: On Marc by Sofia, Love Story, Kirsten Dunst
Aired: April 3, 2026 | Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni

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Episode Overview

In this breezy, pop culture-packed episode, Chelsea and Lauren give their signature sharp yet affectionate commentary on recent fashion experiences, pop-cultural phenomena, current movies (notably Sofia Coppola’s Marc Jacobs documentary), the season finale of Love Story, and the evolving careers of Kirsten Dunst. The discussion flows naturally through shopping adventures, shifting design aesthetics, buzzy docu-films, and the legacy of pop-culture icons, with plenty of personal anecdotes and side-eye (all in unmistakably witty Every Outfit style).

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1. Sushi Samba, Sex and the City, & Y2K Nostalgia

[01:04–04:56]

The Long-Awaited Sushi Samba Return

• The hosts finally dined at the newly reopened Sushi Samba in LA, vividly describing its rooftop-only layout and “spiritually Dubai” vibe.
  • “It definitely has the spirit of a restaurant from the early 2000s… it’s very much giving Dubai.” – Chelsea [01:20]
• Its Sex and the City legacy is strong—even training staff with stories from the show.
  • Finding a woman with Samantha’s iconic gold Fendi baguette at the restaurant was a highlight (Chelsea photographed her as a tribute to SATC fandom) [03:20–03:52].
• Discussion on whether “fusion” is now an unfashionable, even “dirty” word in cuisine.
• Outdated-yet-lovable Y2K aesthetics and why more LA restaurants weren’t always conceived as outdoors despite the climate.
• Soho House and other “Sex and the City institutions”: the show’s cultural impact on where “it” people want to go [04:33].

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2. Fashion Collabs & Zara Shopping in the Dystopian Mallscape

[05:37–13:03]

Zara x Willy Chavarria Drop

• The hosts (and friends) did tipsy, collective online shopping for the Zara/Willy Chavarria collab—debate on millennials’ reluctance to make big purchases on phones (Gen Z shade).
  • “Okay, you know that’s something that Gen Z people on TikTok make fun of millennials for doing, right? That we can’t make big purchases on our phones.” – Chelsea [06:25]
• Surprised at the quality, branding, and details—Chelsea got a surprisingly good suit; Lauren had a few returns.

The Bleak Future of In-Person Retail

• New Zara store at The Grove: high-concept retail design is uninviting, self-checkout returns are “creepy and dystopian” [09:13–10:34].
  • “You feel like you’re left alone in this scary, dystopian Zara that has like the same eerie minimalist vibes as Kim and Kanye’s house.” – Chelsea [10:06]
• Designers and hotels have been “Tulum-pilled”—where’s the joyful Y2K retro energy?
• Longing for immersive, themed stores like early Miss Sixty or Diesel—now replaced by generic minimalism [11:11–11:45].

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3. Kirsten Dunst, Minecraft 2, & the Economics of Selling Out

[15:29–20:10]

• Dunst’s move to Minecraft 2 isn’t surprising, but shows generational star transitions (“She wants a pile of cash… maybe I can just make a movie where I don’t lose money” – Lauren summarizing Dunst [15:41]).
• Sofia Coppola’s canceled period piece sparks speculation (Sylvia Plath? Another tragic blonde?)—Lauren: “We’ve kind of run out of tragic blondes at this point” [18:59].
• They long for Coppola to direct a real Britney Spears biopic (“As if that wouldn’t be sad. That would be the saddest movie in the world.” – Chelsea [17:45]).
• Dunst’s path compared to Chloë Sevigny—why acclaimed actresses over 40 are drawn to miniseries and true-crime (“That’s where the roles are…” – Chelsea [20:12]).

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4. The Housemaid, Airport Thriller Books, and AI Authorship

[20:20–26:03]

Housemaid Movie & Literary Rabbit Hole

• Sydney Sweeney’s “The Housemaid”—wild twist, Lifetime-meets-pop-feminist-meltdown energy.
  • “It is cut from the cloth of Lifetime, which I think I have to ingest a certain quota of every year as a woman.” – Chelsea [21:43]
• Author Frida McFadden: real or a publishing collective? Pen names, rumors of a wig, dual careers as a doctor [22:11–23:30].
• AI controversy in Booktok-famous novels; is “bad writing” the same as “AI writing” now? (Em dashes paranoia!) [24:48–25:28].

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5. Why Can’t John Waters Get Financed?

[26:49–27:55]

• Millennials/gay elders struggle to get cult film projects financed (“Billionaires…they just have terrible taste.” – Lauren [27:17])
• The Missed opportunity with John Waters’ Aubrey Plaza adaption and the deadly taste gap among today’s wealthy.

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6. Representation, Nervous Breakdowns, and “Glamorous Suffering” on Screen

[31:04–34:43]

• Channel 4’s Caroline Hollick sparked debate by lamenting a film fest full of “women having nervous breakdowns”—hosts are delighted.
  • “Thank God. Sounds like we’re gonna have an amazing fall here at Every Outfit.” – Lauren [32:00]
• The age-old feminist critique: Are these stories glamorizing illness, or simply fun escapism? (“Let us have our fun.” – Chelsea [32:24])
• The infamous astronaut “adult diapers” story and its missed potential as a biopic [33:00–34:34].

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7. Love Story Season Finale: Praise, Nitpicks, and Carolyn Bessette’s Real Life

[35:03–49:18]

Review of Hulu’s Love Story

• Early episodes of the season felt more successful; the finale was emotionally strong but structurally shaky.
  • “For me, the last couple episodes were the weakest of the show.” – Chelsea [35:14]
• Book Once Upon a Time (Elizabeth Beller) offers more complexity and humanity for Carolyn than the show.
• Omission of Carolyn’s kindness, Anthony Radziwill’s cancer, and the inner life of supporting players like Carol Radziwill diminished the series’ impact and accuracy [36:26–41:06].
• Criticism of how the finale handled the fatal plane crash (“Kind of makes it seem like John and Caroline are having this romantic flight… they hit some mild turbulence and that’s it.” – Chelsea [45:32])
• Glossed over JFK Jr’s responsibility for the crash and the aftermath (“He was completely culpable… he didn’t have the training that was required…” – Chelsea [42:34]).
• Admiration for Grace Gummer and Constance Zimmer’s heartbreaking performances [44:05–44:35].
  • “[The performances] are tens across the board. And there will be Emmy nominations, for sure, if not wins.” – Chelsea [44:14]
• “What If” speculation about the Kennedys’ legacy had they survived, alternate history of US politics [47:18–49:10].

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8. George Magazine, Vanity Fair, and 90s Print Nostalgia

[50:00–56:18]

• Spike in interest post-Love Story: covers are selling for real money, but was George ever actually a good magazine? (Great covers, less great content.)
  • Spy Magazine's covers and political satire were bolder; George always hedged bets to avoid offending elites [50:41–52:17].
• Dissection of JFK Jr’s real political acumen—was George proof he wasn’t as visionary as people hoped? [55:28–55:41]
  • “Running a magazine requires a very specific skill set that is not something you just have…” – Chelsea [55:41]

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9. Love Story Season 2 Pitch Session: Couples That Need Their Own Show

[56:53–62:19]

• Ryan Murphy-ification of real people continues—Season 2 wishlist:
  • Elizabeth Taylor & Richard Burton (likely)
  • Stevie Nicks & Lindsey Buckingham (April Fool’s, but excellent)
  • Kurt & Courtney (“We need some messiness, even though Carolyn was kind of messy.” – Chelsea [60:40])
  • Vivienne Westwood & Malcolm McLaren (“That could span many decades.” – Lauren [59:17])
  • Donna Karan and Stephen Weiss (super dramatic), Calvin and Kelly Klein (Lauren: “Spin-off?”)
  • The possibility of a Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie season, Jeff Koons & Cicciolina, Cher & Bagel Boy, and more [61:01].

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10. Movie Review: Marc by Sophia (Sofia Coppola’s Marc Jacobs Documentary)

[63:20–89:54]

Impressions & Criticism

• Enjoyed, but found it more “mood board” than revealing doc—expected more personal or insightful content given the closeness of subject and director.
  • “It is not a revealing documentary. It’s more like the film equivalent of a mood board.” – Chelsea [64:12]
• Amazing archival footage; but emotionally sanitized and occasionally obscure (“I wish it was more esoteric” – Chelsea [65:05]).
• The director’s intimate friendship with Jacobs led to missing context for outsiders; key stories (like Jacobs’ difficult upbringing, struggles with addiction, business upheavals) brushed over.
• “No drama” – the doc sidesteps the terror and high stakes of a live runway show, unlike more intense predecessors (e.g., Unzipped).
• Anna Sui, Unzipped, and the “missing friends” phenomenon—why weren’t contemporary voices and fun cameos included?
• The best scenes are tiny: disagreements over fabric, the “Petra von Kant” dynamic between Marc and his team (and between Chelsea and Lauren) [81:04–83:18].
• RJ Cutler as producer of September Issue attached, but the doc feels otherwise highly insider-y.
• Sophia’s daughter Romy Mars interviewing them for A24: charming, but triggers a generational cringe (“Why is she dressed like that? Half of Gen Z is dressed like they’re perpetually at the airport.” – Chelsea [86:28]).
• “We may be overly critical… but it just made us long for more. Also… it was visually beautiful.” – Chelsea [88:22].

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On eating at Sushi Samba & SATC legacy:
  • “This is the legacy of Sex in the City, truly.” – Chelsea [03:52]
• Couple purchasing habits:
  • “We can’t make big purchases on our phones. We have to make them on laptops.” – Chelsea [06:25]
  • “I was just about to say, never will.” – Lauren [06:37]
• Red carpet hopes & the Met Gala:
  • “Put differently: an un-fuck-up-able red carpet theme.” – Lauren [15:05]
  • “Although I’m sure many will fuck it up, which is part of the fun.” – Chelsea [15:10]
• On the “woman having a nervous breakdown” genre:
  • “Thank God… Sounds like we’re gonna have an amazing fall here at Every Outfit.” – Lauren [32:00]
• On the emotional pain of Love Story’s ending:
  • “I started crying. I was like, I can’t do this episode just yet.” – Lauren [44:36]
• On George magazine:
  • “Let’s not pretend it was better than it was.” – Chelsea [55:05]
  • “Running a magazine requires a very specific skill set that is not something you just have because they are in the upper echelons of society…” – Chelsea [55:41]
• On Marc by Sofia:
  • “It’s more like the film equivalent of a mood board.” – Chelsea [64:12]
  • “If you are not familiar with the lore of that relationship, I suggest you give it a Google because it is the most dramatic shit in the world.” – Chelsea on Donna Karan & Stephen Weiss [62:08]
• On pet peeves in AMC theater ads:
  • “It has stripped all context out of… that line.” (Of Nicole Kidman’s “Heartbreak feels good” ad) – Lauren [90:39]

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Important Timestamps by Topic

• Sushi Samba, Y2K Aesthetic & Sex and the City: [01:04–04:56]
• Shopping/Willy Chavarria x Zara drop: [05:37–08:26]
• Zara design and dystopian retail experience: [09:13–11:45]
• Hotel/retail design, Y2K nostalgia: [10:34–11:45]
• Movie news/Kirsten Dunst & Sofia Coppola & Selling Out: [15:29–20:10]
• Housemaid twist, Frida McFadden backstory & BookTok/AI: [20:20–26:03]
• Women’s nervous breakdown films debate: [31:04–34:43]
• Love Story review: [35:03–49:18]
• George Magazine/print legacy: [50:00–56:18]
• Love Story S2 pitch brainstorming: [56:53–62:19]
• Marc by Sofia review: [63:20–89:54]
• Nicole Kidman AMC Ad / AMC Experience: [90:06–91:22]

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Final Thoughts

This episode traverses the landscape of modern and retro pop culture with Every Outfit’s signature cocktail of affectionate snark, deep research, and in-joke riffs. Marc Jacobs’ life and Sophia Coppola’s storytelling are dissected with care and longing for more; the end of Love Story is a springboard for nuanced discussions of legacy and why stories about women’s emotional undoing never really go out of style. Listeners finish the hour feeling both thoroughly entertained and caught up on fashion, film, and which magazine covers to invest in—at least for the next two weeks.

Transcript

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[Lauren Garone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Lauren Garone]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty? Great gown. Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed. Oh, it hasn't.

[Lauren Garone]

Hi, my name is Lauren Garone, and.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garone]

And welcome back to another episode of the Every Outfit podcast. Chelsea, we have very exciting news for the Fuckettes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What?

[Lauren Garone]

We went to Sushi Samba.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm sure they really give a shit.

[Lauren Garone]

I think they do. I mean, I feel like we've been talking about this forever because it has been under construction for years and it finally opened up.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It definitely has the spirit of a restaurant from the early 2000s. And design and vibe wise, like we anticipated, it's very much giving Dubai.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, it's very spiritually Dubai. For one thing, it is a exclusively rooftop restaurant. And I had read that, but I had assumed, like, oh, there's a portion inside and then there's like a very large rooftop outdoor portion of the restaurant. No, it is all outdoors, which is

[Chelsea Fairless]

so great because there are virtually no restaurants in Los Angeles that were conceived of as outdoor restaurants, despite how good the weather is here. It's actually crazy, right?

[Lauren Garone]

And I had posited that there was maybe a retractable roof, which you and Tat were like, there can't be. And then there was, because, you know, even in LA, if the temperature dips below 68, it's just. It's too cold for us.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I did feel like I was going back in time, though. And it was so interesting talking to our server because he told us that they tell the employees about the Sex and the City episode as part of their onboarding for that job.

[Lauren Garone]

He made it seem like that's the first thing they say about Sushi Samba to orient people as to what Sushi Samba is. And to your point about it feeling very early 2000s, it is. Except don't you dare call it fusion, which was another thing. Our waiter made us aware of that in training, they're like, you know, it has a lot of different flavors. Not Fusion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Though I didn't realize that fusion was a dirty word.

[Lauren Garone]

I don't know if that word got cancelled, if it's out of fashion or what.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I guess fusion food is kind of out of style.

[Lauren Garone]

I guess so. Another thing that's out of style, and we did love our experience as Sushi Samba was the waiters and waitresses uniforms.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. They could have done a better job with that. But I was into going to Sushi Samba. I fully would go back.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, you were so into Sushi Samba. I've honestly, I've never seen you happier. You came back from the restroom with such a smile on your face because you ran into a woman and you were like, look at this. And it's because she had Samantha's gold Fendi baguette.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. From the LA episode. And I asked her like, are you wearing this because you knew you were going to Sushi Samba? And because it was on Sex and the City. And she was like, yes.

[Lauren Garone]

And then you were like, can I take your photograph? And she was like, I guess.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure. This is the legacy of Sex in the City, truly.

[Lauren Garone]

And Sushi Samba, the fact that it's

[Chelsea Fairless]

still, like, top of people's minds. Well, yes, Sex and the City definitely played a huge role in that restaurant's continued success.

[Lauren Garone]

You also had the energy of Samantha when she's reminding everyone about the reservation at Samba, which we've done the Frenemies episode, and we are still not sure if Samba was a fake restaurant invented in the world of Sex and the City or they are indeed referring to Sushi Samba.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We've talked about this a million times. It is a fully different restaurant.

[Lauren Garone]

But you kept reminding me. You were like, sushi Samba. Next week. Do you get the calendar invite? We're going to Sushi Samba.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I didn't want you to forget. So you haven't seen the second episode of the Comeback yet. And that episode is filmed in part at the Soho House, which made me think about what Sex in the City and what Michael Patrick King has done for the Soho House over the years. Also, similarly to Sushi Samba, there are certain institutions that we will always associate with Sex in the City on some level.

[Lauren Garone]

The Weho Soho House or the Arts District 1. Yeah, the Arts District 1 is a Sewo house that actually has the pool, which it really should be the West Hollywood one, although they should both have pools. But I hear that Sewo House is out of fashion now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I was never a member. It used to be. I remember going there in the early 2000s like the New York meat packing one, and I felt like it was the place to be.

[Lauren Garone]

There was also definitely pre pandemic a moment in Los Angeles where that was the place to have meetings.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do know cool people, though, that are Soho House members, I will say, and I do enjoy hanging out at the pool in the downtown LA one. But anyway, this is a digression.

[Lauren Garone]

It's a deep digression. I think we should also get into, I would say, a slightly insane behavior that we all indulged in at the end of Sushi Samba, which is we realized that the Willy Shavaria Zara collaboration was going live at 9pm on the

[Chelsea Fairless]

west coast, which is an insane and frankly, convenient time for one of these drops.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, we used to get that convenience when it came to in just like that, right? It would drop at midnight on the East coast, but 9pm for us. And Daddy MPK snatched that for season three, and that's why it wasn't renewed. But we kept being like, do we wrap up our dinner at Sushi Samba early so we could all get home and be on our laptops? Because surely this is a laptop activity. But we were just having too much fun.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, you know that that's something that Gen z people on TikTok make fun of millennials for doing, right? That we can't make big purchases on our phones. We have to make them on laptops. Like, we can't buy plane tickets on our phones.

[Lauren Garone]

I was just about to say, never will.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I can't bring myself to do it either. And Tat always makes fun of me. She buys plane tickets on her phone

[Lauren Garone]

and good for her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Anyway, we were a little tipsy and we all just went shopping at the table.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes, we did go crazy because in our tipsy state, we were like, you know what? We're not going to like half the stuff anyway, so we'll just return it. That's how we justified it to ourselves. And I don't know about you, but I like pretty much everything I bought. Oh, really? To be fair, I bought a lot of things for Paul, so I ended up buying more items for him than myself, which makes sense with Willy. He does do womenswear, but.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But yes, it's a more men's focused brand for me. About half of the stuff I bought worked out, which is what I anticipated.

[Lauren Garone]

Did the red long polo dress, which was very. You work out?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, that looked like shit on me. No, no Shade to Willie. Sometimes you just don't know.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, I got the short version. There was a Short polo dress with long sleeves.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, the thing with these collabs is you never know like, what's going to look like Willy and what's going to look like Zara until it's like, physically like in your possession.

[Lauren Garone]

I don't know about you, but I was impressed with the details of this Zara collaboration. I think it speaks to this upcoming John Galliano collection because the boxes were a different color. They were fully Willy branded for Paul. On his pants there was like grip tape so it would stay on his waist properly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I was surprised by the quality of a lot of the pieces. If for no other reason that I feel like they could be mistaken for ready to wear pieces. And I'm surprised that the collection was also so massive. There was so much stuff that the average person, like, would never be able to tell that it was Zara. I actually got a suit, which was crazy. The suit worked out for me, the women's suit.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I got a pair of jeans.

[Lauren Garone]

Fascinating. Yeah. The breadth of the collection. I got a couple bodysuits, two dresses. One that made me. I sent you guys the photo, but

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if you should keep that one.

[Lauren Garone]

No, no. That I returned.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay.

[Lauren Garone]

Made me look like it was this mini dress, button down, with these very exaggerated shoulders, which Paul was trying to encourage me to keep as more of a costume for every outfit. TV But I send you a photo of me in it. And then I sent a photo of this guy, big Ed from 90 Day Fiance, who has some sort of issue where he has no neck. His, like, head and shoulders are kind of merged together and that's what the dress was looking like. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if that was your piece necessarily, but again, you never know until you try.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm sending a couple of pieces back because I don't know if you've been to the new Zara store at the Grove. It's beautiful.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The vibes in there creep me out. I'd honestly rather like a semi dilapidated, like, mall Zara that's just like crammed full of shit.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, the return section has never been more oppressive because they've somehow figured out how to do basically a self checkout version for returns. They were like, if you don't want to wait in line, just go to this kiosk. And then. Which would be fine if not for the fact that you then have to package everything up yourself and then you open up this wall and then it just, it absorbs the package and it goes somewhere. But the funniest thing is it's not even a return label, Chelsea. They make you put a QR code so someone else is still doing the return work right in the bowels of this Zara.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But there's like no forward facing employees. You feel like you're left alone in this scary, dystopian Zara that has like the same eerie minimalist vibes as Kim and Kanye's house. Like, it's very unsettling to be in there. I do not enjoy it. I understand the impulse to make a space look more upscale than you would imagine, but I also feel like in execution, like something happened, something went wrong.

[Lauren Garone]

We have discussed this when it comes to hotel design, particularly in Los Angeles where everyone just got tulum pilled.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know, like, for fuck's sake. It's all that same, like plastery looking

[Lauren Garone]

walls, lime wash. That is what I imagine is going to happen to our beloved standard West Hollywood, which is becoming the west coast location for the public. But I mean, everyone loves Y2K. Like, why is no one just designing something that looks like it would have opened in the year 2000 that itself was trying to look like the late 60s, early 70s. That's really all we want.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. I was scrolling on Instagram the other day and someone posted like all of these images from the Like Miss 60 store in New York.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In the Y2K era, which was fully designed with like a Verner Panton kind of 60s space age look to it. And it was just so incredible. I miss when there were stores like that. Diesel stores also used to have that

[Lauren Garone]

vibe, which is funny because that's their style now. Like the style of the clothing being designed is very early 2000s, yet all the stores look like you're in tulum.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I haven't set foot in a Diesel store in years. There's one in the Beverly center, but

[Lauren Garone]

I mean, who's going to go there? You want to talk about an abandoned mall?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. I know it's scary in there. Mommy. I don't like it. Mommy. Take me to the Century City Mall. Take me to the Americana.

[Lauren Garone]

Have you seen the trailer for the new a 24 horror film called Back Rooms?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garone]

This is based on an online trend, I guess, or it started on 4chan or something. I still don't quite understand it, which I think is a generational divide, but it is this idea that you're just stuck in a liminal place that you can't get out of. So very. When you were describing the new Zara at the Grove I'm like, oh yeah, it's like if backrooms was in a fashion store or something. Anyway, we have a new sponsor, First Day. They create daily multivitamins that support your family's health and happiness with real science and wholesome ingredients. I feel like a daily multivitamin is a habit I've just never been able to keep. I start, I stop, I find a new one. The cycle repeats. And now as a mother, I want to create a good habit with Morty. Did you know that 50% of kids suffer from hidden hunger? That doesn't mean that you're not feeding your child enough. Hidden hunger can come from picky eating, processed snacks or even a lack of nutrient rich soil in the fruits and veggies they eat. First Day is one of the first brands with vitamins designed to fight hidden hunger and nutrient gaps. They make clean science backed multivitamins for kids, teens and adults. I'm currently taking their no junk women's multivitamin because I love how First Day is transparent about what goes into their products. 9 essential vitamins for brain mood support. No added sugar and no artificial ingredients. No fake dyes, no crushed bones. Wait, crush bones are in other vitamins. Anyway, I plan to use their kids multivitamin once Morty is of age because First Day is trusted by over 1 million families. A first day vitamin is sold every 13 seconds and their kids and teens multivitamin are the number one in two children's vitamins at Target and they have a 45 day money back guarantee so you can try it with confidence. Clinically absorbable, family safe, actually effective for a limited time only. Our listeners are getting an insane deal. Use Code outfit to get up to 57% [e-mail] that's up to 57% off and a free gift with code outfit@first aid.com after you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you some movie news perhaps.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Take it away.

[Lauren Garone]

This is going to be a light and breezy episode which I feel like we need because again, I mean love doing the podcast but we were just discussing before we started recording. It's a lot the fact that award season and fashion month are not just overlapping, they are on top of each other and we've just like had back to back to back weeks and as

[Chelsea Fairless]

someone that is digesting all of this information like at the end of it like I feel like I'm Odin and

[Lauren Garone]

then we basically have a month and then it's the Met Gala, which, as we've noted, I'm so scared for this year's Met Gala for no other reason than literally the last two years. We haven't even been able to view everything by the time we record because there's just so much content now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I'm excited for this Met Gala because I feel like the theme is good and it's been a while since there's been a good theme or a theme that I can see people wrapping their heads around.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes. Put differently and un. Fuck up. Able to. Red carpet theme.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Although I'm sure many will fuck it up, which is part of the fun.

[Lauren Garone]

And that's where we come in.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I hope they all fuck it up. Wouldn't that be great?

[Lauren Garone]

We need more fashion victims. If this year's award season and its red carpet has taught us anything, people are too safe.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, movie news.

[Lauren Garone]

Our girl Kirsten Dunst, she's selling out, and we approve.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, you say that she's selling out as if she wasn't in all those Spider man movies, which obviously I never watched. But they did happen.

[Lauren Garone]

I think they did happen. But since her tenure in comic book movies, she has done her time with your Sofia Coppola's, your Lars Von Triers, and she even said last year in Town and Country magazine that she wants to be in Minecraft 2. One because her kids love the first one and also because she'd like to make a pile of cash saying, maybe I can just make a movie where I don't lose money. And wouldn't you know it, Chelsea, she has just been cast in Minecraft 2.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I missed Minecraft 1, so this has very little impact for me.

[Lauren Garone]

I did as well. We're going to talk about, because Kirsten has been cast in two movies that passed us by, Minecraft being one of them, which that movie last year grossed nearly $1 billion. And we have no idea about this cultural moment. And it's also based on a massively popular game.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is it a game or is it a toy for children? I mean, like Legos or something, because they all have those blocky little heads. That's like the one thing I know about Minecraft.

[Lauren Garone]

It's a game that I'm sure has spawned toys. Okay, so Dunce will play Alex, one of the primary avatars available to players of the Minecraft. That's all I got from the Deadline article about this. I will say that what she also talked about in this Town and Country piece was that early this year she was going to be shooting a new Sofia Coppola film, which in Sofia Coppola's press run for this Mark by Sophia documentary, she admitted to Elle magazine would no longer be happening.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. And previously they described this movie as a period film that would center around a real life historic figure. Who that is, we have no idea. And Sophia said that they shelved it because times are too dark right now and this story felt too sad. What? Like, girl, you made the virgin suicides.

[Lauren Garone]

Look, if this frees Sofia Coppola up to make what we've learned is evidently her dream project, which is a biopic about Britney Spears, then so be it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

As if that wouldn't be sad. That would be the saddest movie in the world.

[Lauren Garone]

I just love that Sofia Coppola's special interest is Britney Spears.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is kind of weird. Although I read her say something to the effect of, like, when she shaved her head and beat that car with an umbrella. That was extremely punk. And it was like, that moment was fascinating to me.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. She also said of that moment, or the person interviewing her notes that because she was living in Paris at the time and working on Marie Antoinette, she wasn't aware of Britney Spears whole breakdown and the blackout era. Right. So she's learning about it kind of 10 years later. It seems like the Britney Spears memoir was a turning point for Sofia Coppola. And I like to think she listened to the Michelle Williams audiobook Walking the streets of NoHo or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I would love to see her direct a Britney Spears biopic, although it would very much be the sanitized version. This is the woman that directed Priscilla. And that's fine, that's fine. I love that. But I also would like to see a Britney Spears movie that does dive into the darkness.

[Lauren Garone]

Who do we think this canceled film could have been about? Sylvia Plath.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That would have made sense. We've kind of run out of tragic blondes at this point. Like, there's been movies about all of them. If she's playing a brunette, though, I have no idea. That opens it up to a wide range of people. See, this is the thing. Like, I understand why she's doing Minecraft because her kids like it. And that's like, an understandable reason to do something. Like, isn't this why Kim Kardashian was randomly did a voice in Paw Patrol or some shit?

[Lauren Garone]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But also, I feel like Kirsten Dunst's version of Selling out should be, like, entering into the limited series world in the way that Chloe, 70 has, where, like, you would think that Kirsten Dunst and Chloe, 70, would be up against each other for the same roles as like vaguely white trash moms involved in some sort of true crime situation.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, that's interesting. She did do Fargo, which is where she met her husband partner Jesse Plemons, but she really hasn't dived back into.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she did that weird central Florida show that I tried to watch, but that wasn't a limited series. I think that was supposed to be like a full blown television show, right?

[Lauren Garone]

Well, maybe she got burned from television.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I think she should explore that further because it seems like that is where the roles are for women over 40.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, she doesn't have time because she's also been cast in the Housemaid 2. Now, up until a few days ago, Chelsea and I had not seen the Housemaid. I was aware that this movie came out just a few months ago and made like $400 million in the theater, which also made me realize, like, there is a whole other world out there that I'm unaware of. The first film, the Housemaid, stars Sydney Sweeney as Millie. I guess she will be back. We've subsequently learned the Housemaid is a series of books, right? Featuring Millie, who is an ex con with a mysterious past who is hired as a live in maid for a wealthy family. With Chelsea. Can you believe it? A Dark Secret. And in the sequel, Millie Returns. And according to the plot description, she takes a job keeping house for a woman she's never allowed to see, only to discover the truth behind the locked door that threatens to expose secrets far darker than her own. So we've now seen the Housemaid. We're not going to spoil it. It has like, one of the craziest twists I've ever seen in a movie. You said Tat's reading the sequel now, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she read the first book.

[Lauren Garone]

Do you think Millie is like, God damn it, I got fooled to get another door with a dark secret behind it. You know, fool me once.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I think I told you this, but the Amanda Seyfried character was not supposed to be hot.

[Lauren Garone]

Excuse me?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They stole a role from a character actor in casting her, which is typical Hollywood shit, of course, but I liked the Housemaid because it is a glamorous women having nervous breakdowns movie. It is cut from the cloth of Lifetime, which I think I have to just ingest a certain quota of Lifetime adjacent content every single year as a woman. I don't know what it is. It just speaks to me and I do think the twist was impressive.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, I've fallen down A rabbit hole with the author Freda McFadden who wrote the Housemaid. I've subsequently learned she has published 15 books in the last four years, which you know, is a sizable output for an author if not for the fact that she is also a physician. She is a doctor whose pen name. This is her pen name. You want to talk about like mysterious past. I went deep Chelsea last night on Reddit. People believe this woman doesn't exist because they believe that. Well, one, she writes under a pen name. So Frida McFadden is not her real name because she still practices medicine, although she gives very limited details about that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Can you imagine if your doctor is the woman that wrote the Housemaid?

[Lauren Garone]

Well, because of that, people believe that she is wearing a wig in the few press appearances that she does and in her author's portrait to obscure who she really is, which is just sounding like a plot of one of her own movies.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, totally.

[Lauren Garone]

People don't believe that she's actually a doctor. People believe that she has like a whole collective of writers because if you look at her output like this year she will be releasing three books and she claims that she still practices one to two times a week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I haven't read these books so I can't speak to the quality. Maybe they suck. And it's not surprising that she churns

[Lauren Garone]

out three a year new every outfit book club episode.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like I read these like airport books sometimes and the ones that are really popular and I'm often struck by how shitty the writing is.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, we didn't even get into the AI controversy with I believe it was called Shy Girl where it was a self published novel that did really well. Seems to be like vaguely 50 shades of gray esque mixed with seemingly a very watered down Yorgos Law. The most plot of a girl that dates a dominant man that turns her into a dog, treats her like a dog 247 or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right, because she's into that.

[Lauren Garone]

Hard to say. I haven't read it myself and I won't because it was supposed to be released in the US and people noticed. So it was self published, then a UK publisher published it and then people started reading that it was very big on Booktok. Also we should say Frida McFadden is very big on Booktok as well. That's where her audience really grew. And kudos to Sydney Sweeney for recognizing that. Like I still think Sydney Sweeney is a really impressive producer. Like she is able to identify material that does resonate with people. Siren, not so much.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It probably does resonate with people. It just doesn't resonate with us.

[Lauren Garone]

But anyway, people started to notice that a lot of the book felt like it was written by AI. To which I say, isn't just bad writing. Doesn't it feel like it's written by AI?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there's tropes with AI writing.

[Lauren Garone]

The thing that fucks me up is, I don't know if this is still the case, but when people were getting failed in college because their papers had EM dashes and they're like, EM dash is a clear sign that you've used AI. And it's like, I use EM dashes all the time. And I write. I write these things.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Like, I overuse an EM dash. I can't get enough. And I'm sure I improperly use them

[Lauren Garone]

also, frankly, abuse it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I am now at the point where I am starting to notice AI writing a lot, especially in social content and stuff.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, great. I'll actually watch the Housemaid 2. I will never watch Minecraft 2. But I think we should also say that it's not as if Kirsten Dunst isn't still getting cast in really good movies. She was in Civil War. She was in Power of the Dog. Obviously these movies are few and far between. It's not like she's making like three movies a year. Like, she was late 90s, early 2000s.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, yeah, that's for a multitude of reasons. We don't have that studio ecosystem anymore. She sort of aged out of those ingenue roles, I believe she said after doing Power of the Dog, all she was offered were scripts where she was a mother. And she basically waited until she got a good script that wasn't. And that was Civil War.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, okay. So her loss is Chloe 70's gain?

[Lauren Garone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's like, I will play a mother.

[Lauren Garone]

Are you doing a true crime adaptation? A few years after the person, the protagonist, was convicted of this crime and they live in a trailer park and there's a mother best friend role. I'm there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But Chloe, 70, is still doing all of the art house shit also, but in more minor roles than Kirsten Dunst maybe would take.

[Lauren Garone]

And also all of our pervert auteur fathers and grandfathers. It's harder and harder for them to find financing. Like, as we know, there's been a John Waters project based on his book with Aubrey Plaza that just can't find financing. The next Todd Salons film that Elizabeth Olsen was going to be the lead of. Can't find financing. I mean, come on. Billionaires yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The John Waters thing is so upsetting.

[Lauren Garone]

This is what I don't get. Like, I understand eat the rich, but more my issue or a part of my issue with the billionaire class is they just have terrible taste.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, yeah, unless you're like a Steve Jobs or something.

[Lauren Garone]

And he's dead, right? The ultra wealthy used to fund opera houses and railroads and libraries. Like, to me, if I had fuck you money, it's like funding a John Waters film that you will never make your money back. Like, that's having a piece of art on the wall, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

And that's just what some, like, powerful gay should do. Just because it's the right thing to do.

[Lauren Garone]

Ryan Murphy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly.

[Lauren Garone]

Chell, are you cold?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Always. Guys, Lauren always has the AC on when we record and I'm constantly freezing. I cannot podcast under these conditions.

[Lauren Garone]

Okay, Here, why don't you take my Lola blanket?

[Chelsea Fairless]

So much better.

[Lauren Garone]

And wouldn't you know it, Lola Blankets is this week's sponsor. Lola is the world's number one blanket, crafted with ultra soft luxury faux fur and a signature four way stretch that sets it apart.

[Chelsea Fairless]

When I'm at home, my wife likes to turn her house into a polar vortex where I am constantly freezing. So anytime I'm prepping every outfit, I'm under my Lola blanket and I truly cannot imagine my life without it at this point.

[Lauren Garone]

See, my favorite thing about Lola Blankets is their machine washable double hem for durability. And they stay flawless, meaning no pilling, no shedding, even after repeated washes. And I can attest to this as Morty has spit up spilled our coffees.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, you give your baby coffee?

[Lauren Garone]

Okay, it was our coffees. And then his hand took the cup and spilled.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm calling cps.

[Lauren Garone]

Our advertiser will love this. Let's just say a lot of liquids have been spilled on the Lola blankets. We put it in the wash and it always comes out as good as new.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Lauren and I have the large blankets, but I think I may need to upgrade to the xl. Lola also makes weighted blankets which are perfect for these increasingly spooky and stressful times.

[Lauren Garone]

And lola has over 20,000 five star reviews. And once you feel it, you'll know why. There's a reason it's called the world's number one blanket. We can attest the Lola blanket is next level.

[Chelsea Fairless]

For a limited time, our listeners can get 40% off select Lola blanket products with Code Outfit at checkout. Just head to Lola blankets.com and use code outfit to get 40% off your order. After you purchase they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know that we sent you Wrap Yourself in Luxury with Lola blankets. Oh, also, I wanted to talk to you about Elizabeth Perkins in the Housemaid, which no one is talking about, and her sassy white short hairstyle.

[Lauren Garone]

She got the constant Zimmer in jfk. Carolyn Bessette Love Story as a beloved character actress from the 90s and 2000 who's now been forced to be in a short wig in the. In the mother role.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. I really wish I saw Elizabeth Perkins more. And I was like, what was the last movie we even saw her in? It was Sharp Objects. Not that that was a movie, but she was in that. And that's the last thing I remember seeing her in.

[Lauren Garone]

Also, something I want to mention. The husband, Amanda Seyfried's husband in the House made giving the strongest Australian face and yet an American actor. I know you have facial blindness when it comes to men, but I have

[Chelsea Fairless]

no memory of that character.

[Lauren Garone]

Really. He looks like he could be a Hemsworth cousin or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. Right.

[Lauren Garone]

So I look forward to, I'm sure, Bobby Cannavale being Kirsten Dunn's husband in this film. He seems like someone that would be cast in these movies.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. Okay. Also, I love that multiple people sent me this Deadline article which is extremely niche. Do you want to explain this?

[Lauren Garone]

Right, so Deadline ran this article that just said hollywood going backwards in quotes on representation as, quote, films about women having nervous breakdowns come back into fashion. Now, this is a hooey headline said by an even hooier person. Because this came at a Series Mania panel and was said by ex Channel 4 drama boss and North Read executive Caroline Hollick.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she's an executive at Channel 4, so she could be a them in the UK in a who in the United States.

[Lauren Garone]

Okay. I mean, look, she did give us this banger of a quote, although we reject the premise of it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she basically said that we're going backwards in terms of representation. She just went to a film festival where there were four or five films about women having nervous breakdowns. Thank God.

[Lauren Garone]

Great. Sounds like we're gonna have an amazing fall here at the Every Outfit podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. And look, the feminist critique has always been that these movies glamorize female suffering and mental illness and that mental illness isn't actually glamorous, and that additionally, a lot of this suffering is often filtered through the male gaze in a way that is unfortunate.

[Lauren Garone]

But let us have our fun.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. Let us have our fun. Well, it's also that sometimes these movies kind of gloss over the societal issues that may contribute to these breakdowns and make it seem like these bitches are just crazy for no reason. Kind of. But you can do both. It is possible. That's why people still talk about John Dealman all the time.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, I just want to know what in this woman's mind is the correct percentage? Like, how many women having nervous breakdowns can we have? Like, do we need more women as astronauts? Women in the C Suite movies?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Actually, did we ever get a movie about that female astronaut that like, stalked that woman and shitted adult diapers?

[Lauren Garone]

Wasn't there a Natalie Portman film that came and went that was heavily believed was based on this woman?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't remember that, but we should watch it if there was one.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes. Lucy in the Sky. It came out in 2019. I love that when you Google search it, the second search result is IMDb and it's just the thumbnail image is a poster for Vox Lux. Yes. Okay. The film stars Nally Portman as astronaut Lucy Cola, loosely based on the life of the real life NASA astronaut Lisa Nowick.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Did she wear adult diapers in the film though? Oh boy, can someone just tell us if she does? I'll watch the movie.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, okay, here we go. Wikipedia controversy. In November 2018, retired astronaut Marcia Ivins, who flew five space missions, criticized the premise of Lucy in the sky, denying the exist of a quote, long standing idea that says astronauts begin to lose their grip on reality after being in space for an extended period of time. Following its premiere at the 2019 Toronto International Film Festival, the film faced additional criticism from multiple media outlets, some of which jokingly noted the omission of more salacious elements from Lisa Nowick's real life case, most notably her alleged use of adult diapers to avoid bathroom breaks during her journey.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow, okay, so we're boycotting.

[Lauren Garone]

You know, Chell, that's probably why we never ended up seeing that movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If there's no adult diapers, it's not for me. I want to see Natalie Portman go into a Rite Aid and buy the adult diapers.

[Lauren Garone]

You know what, maybe this x channel 4 boss has a point. Maybe we are setting women back by wanting films where they're in adult diapers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But anyway, thank you to everyone that sent us this. It was nice to feel seen.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, it's nice to know what people really think about you. You can tell the type of person you are through not by your actions, but by what DMS you get from other people of what stories they think you might be interested in. Okay, so the final episode of Love Story happened.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What did you think?

[Lauren Garone]

I find myself asking, was this a good season of Love Story? It's the first season of a planned anthology series, but I think it was

[Chelsea Fairless]

great up until the end, really. It lost me in the last couple of episodes a bit. I still love being in the world. Like, I'm so happy to watch this show regardless of the quality of the episode because it's just so escapist and fab. But I don't know. For me, the last couple of episodes were the weakest of the show.

[Lauren Garone]

I agree with you. It's sort of like after they Got Married, which is the last episode that we discussed, it kind of felt rudderless. And I've been listening to the audiobook of Once Upon a Time by Elizabeth Beller, who the series is allegedly inspired by this book, and I've been listening to it as these episodes have been happening. And I just feel like the show doesn't really give you a sense of who Carolyn Bessette Kennedy was. It just feels like the arc of her is this cool girl whose edges got kind of softened or rounded after marrying a Kennedy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. It's just like a lot of lip biting and being upset about the paparazzi.

[Lauren Garone]

Look, I mean, all of episode eight is essentially just a glamorous woman having a nervous breakdown in a fabulous apartment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right?

[Lauren Garone]

But in listening to this audiobook, there are. I mean, obviously a book is going to give you much more of a breath of a real person than a movie, let alone a limited series. But the things that Connor Hines chose to omit, I find interesting. Because in the the book, and I encourage anyone who wants to get a better sense of Jon and Carolyn's love story, Carolyn Bassett is the woman should read or listen to the the audiobook because after they got married, there are all of these anecdotes in the book about not just the paparazzi, but how the world treated her differently and the world of New York. Like, there are several incidents that are explained in the book where, because Carolyn was famous, people would just act out in front of her to try to get her attention. And one such incident is at a Ralph Lauren store in Tribeca where she was shopping and a saleswoman was helping her, showing her some jewelry. And two girls walked into the shop, recognized Carolyn and started taunting the saleswoman of like, hey, can you get this in our size? And she's like, sorry, I'm helping someone. I can't leave the jewelry unattended. And they started verbally harassing this sales associate to the point where Carolyn Bessette left the store. And the saleswoman thought that she had upset Carolyn, when, in actuality, Carolyn realized that her presence was making this woman's life worse. So she decided to leave and send this woman flowers the day afterwards. And I feel like if one or two of those kinds of incidents beyond the paparazzi or in addition to the onslaught of the paparazzi attention would have explained why she just became a hermit, as we see in episode eight.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. But, like, she wasn't actually a hermit. I'm sure she spent a lot of time in her apartment. But the thing that drove me crazy about the penultimate episode, which was, like, where their marriage really broke down, it was a lot of just, like, dramatic scenes with them in the apartment. She alludes to going to Gianni Versace's funeral. And it's like, don't remind me of something that would be more interesting than what I'm currently watching, because that was the episode that was about Princess Diana's death and all of that. But when you look back at that photo from Gianni's funeral, she's in the second row. She's in the same row as Karl Lagerfeld and Andre Leon Talley. She's in back of Princess Diana and Sting. And that photo really does speak to her fame level at that time. It wasn't like she was just alone in her apartment. She was rubbing shoulders with the cultural elite constantly.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. And something that the book makes clear is that I don't think the series makes as clearly is this idea that she knew that whatever her next move was, it had to be significant because all eyes were on her. Also, she died when she was only 34. She married him when he was 30. She leaves Calvin Klein. Like, it's only natural, even if she wasn't married to JFK Jr that you would be looking to make moves when it comes to your job, whether she wanted to get into pr. You know, another thing that I find really glaringly missing from the series is, and it is hinted at, but Anthony Radzwell's cancer and also his marriage to Carol Radzell, who was not featured in the series at all, who was talking to Carolyn, and this is talked about in the book, that Carolyn was thinking about going back to college or making documentary films with Carol Radzwell. And, like, this is a whole interior life we never see in the series,

[Chelsea Fairless]

but we understand why that was admitted.

[Lauren Garone]

The Carol Radzwell stuff for sure. But it's hinted at that Anthony Radzwell has cancer, but I mean, it's not featured at all in the penultimate or the last episode of how much JFK Jr was suffering. Like allegedly he was writing a eulogy for Anthony Radziwell. Anthony Radzell passed away weeks after JFK Jr died. JFK Jr and Carolyn and her sister passed away. So I don't know, I mean, maybe too heavy handed, but John writing a eulogy for his best friend and cousin I think would have been a poignant scene. And also Carolyn was very involved in Anthony's career. She more comes off to me as a brat who couldn't handle the attention when really everyone that spoke about her spoke about how kind she was and how she really thought of other people. And that's not really represented in the series at all.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, also us as the viewer, we kind of are like, girl, can you please leave the apartment? Because we would like to see something fabulous happen. And we got more of that at the beginning of the series certainly than at the end. But for me, my problem with the finale was more the way that it was structured because it was like the first third was about their marital issues, their couples therapy where she has this session where she's like, I have a dream that I'm Jackie in the pink Chanel suit. Except for it's me that's the one getting murdered. Like the most heavy handed dream a person could have in the world of this show.

[Lauren Garone]

That was egregious and so unnecessary and as far as I understand, not something that Carolyn ever said.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. And for me, it takes me out of the world of the show because it's so like outrageous and on the nose and kind of unbelievable.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes. I think also for as exploitative as the family has said the series is, they really do treat the circumstances around their deaths with kid gloves. There's no mention of the fact that potentially probably JFK Jr spent his last night with an ex girlfriend by the name of Julie Baker. That he was not, you know, I believe a lawyer says this to Ed before Constance Zimmer comes into the room when they're negotiating what to do with the funerals. About like, he wasn't instrument rated. He was only, I think, visually trained.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He was completely culpable with this plane crash. Absolutely. He didn't have the training that was required to understand the navigational equipment. He decided to fly a plane relying entirely on sight at night in hazardous weather conditions, because, as I recall, he wasn't aware of the weather. He didn't check it. You know, something to that effect.

[Lauren Garone]

He didn't file a flight log.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He declined his flight instructor's offer to fly out with them on the plane that night. Why that was omitted, I really have no idea. It seems as if they want to make JFK Jr seem less responsible for this accident, which of course was not intentional, but he is very much responsible.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. I believe in the very first episode. Because if you remember, the first episode takes place. It begins with the day of their deaths. And she does. When Carolyn arrives at the airport, she goes, where's. What's his name, Whatever, Josh. And he's like, ah, you know, I said I was fine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. Okay. So they did address that.

[Lauren Garone]

They did. But it's all in kind of thrown away dialogue.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there's also the fact that he had just had that boot removed, I think the day before, very close to.

[Lauren Garone]

But I know you've spoken about your issue with the structure of this episode, but I think what makes this episode great is Grace Gummer and Constance Zimmer's performances. Oh, for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Speaking of cinematic portrayals of female suffering, like these performances are tens across the board. And there will be Emmy nominations for

[Lauren Garone]

sure, if not wins. Yeah, that was. The thing is, I could not watch the last episode for the longest time because as soon as it aired, there were edits on TikTok and they had the edit of Grace Gummer as Caroline, you know, sobbing in her husband's arms of like, I can't do this again. And, you know, you can't help but think about the fact that you just buried her daughter and just.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Horrible.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, I started crying. I was like, I can't do this episode just yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that was great. But again, that part of the episode, which was definitely the strongest part of the episode, this sort of epilogue part with the family, to me, just felt very disconnected with the rest of the episode. Because again, it's like the beginning is the marriage stuff. The middle is the flight, which is handled in this borderline romantic way, which, you know, it's a really tricky thing. I. I don't think that this necessarily needed a full on gratuitous plane crash scene, but I think it needed something to convey how up and violent their deaths actually was. Even if it's just a shot of the crashed plane or something, because it kind of makes it seem like John and Caroline are having this romantic flight and they want to repair their relationship and they hit some mild turbulence and that's it.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. And also in that scene that I was referencing earlier where the lawyer is explaining that he got disoriented, it happens to many pilots. I forget who asked, like, did they feel anything? It's like, they probably didn't. And it's like, that's not true. I mean, he was reportedly found cut in half, and they never found the second half of his body.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, they never found his legs. Also, apparently, like, when a plane goes into what is called a graveyard spiral, it lasts for a while. Like, it probably was, like, a minute where they knew they were going to die and the plane was just going down.

[Lauren Garone]

Right. And the G force you would have felt like you were already dying is what an article I read described it as, which I understand not going there to not be gratuitous, but.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of course.

[Lauren Garone]

But other than these outstanding performances by Grace Gummer and Constance Zimmer, and the epilogue about the grief going through the families, it just. I don't know, it left me with a hollow feeling.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's also glossing over the fact that, you know, Carolyn and Lauren's mom sued JFK jr's estate for wrongful death because she could prove that he was responsible for their deaths. And she was reportedly awarded $15 million, which was reported in the press at the time. That figure was never confirmed, but that's because he was responsible. And his overconfidence and his negligence is ultimately what led to these two women dying that were. Not that their jobs matter, but kind of at the top of their game. Right. Lauren was like a VP at Morgan Stanley or something.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. In her 30s, which is sort of unheard of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They hate to see a girl boss winning a Kennedy.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. They like to lobotomize and I know,

[Chelsea Fairless]

leave people to die in submerged vehicles.

[Lauren Garone]

So this is what I've been thinking about. If JFK Jr. And Carolyn and Lauren, if they had all survived that airplane crash, what would have JFK jr's legacy been beyond? Would his marriage to Carolyn have lasted or not? Another thing that I found interesting that is described in the book, that would have been interesting in the series is right, because you have people that said they were on the brink of divorce, and then you have people who said they were in love and they would have never gotten divorced. And what this book gets into is this idea that it depended on literally the time of day and who JFK Jr. Was talking to. Because he did tell some people, like, that's it. Our marriage is over. We're gonna get divorced. And then he told other people, like, later that same day, like, I love her. That's my soulmate. Which would have been an interesting tension to see, I think.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But they clearly wanted us to like

[Lauren Garone]

both of the characters, of course. And we see at the end of episode seven, him meeting with some Democratic DNC higher up person because he wants to get into politics. Which I always found interesting that this series does highlight this idea that everyone was just like, oh, it's inevitable that he will get into politics. And I do wonder. There was a senator race going on in New York. It's the one that Hillary Clinton ultimately won. Even if he had lived, it was too late for him to have gotten into that race. He was evidently eyeing the 2002 governor seat. And I think about if he had lived and became the governor of New York, certainly post 9 11, would he have been the one that gave a rousing speech at the 2004 DNC instead of Barack Obama? And would he have run for President in 2008 and been the hope and change candidate?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garone]

Or would he have gotten on another flight and crash two years later? Like, it's always interesting to me when people talk about those that have died tragically young, what they would have done with their life. And it's like. But they could have also just died in a freak accident a few years later as well. True.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Lauren Garone]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Lauren Garone]

Liberty.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Liberty.

[Lauren Garone]

Liberty. Can we talk about the revival of George magazine because of this series? Sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know about the revival, the renewed interest in the back issues. Certainly if anyone tries to revive this magazine, I'm gonna jump off a building.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, that's the thing. Is or was, was George magazine a good magazine? And I think the answer is no. Great covers. It seems like editorially, they could never find their footing. But I feel like it was the correct idea, this meeting of politics and pop culture. You certainly wouldn't have something, speaking of the Obama administration, something like crooked media without George magazine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Absolutely not. But George magazine had influences, which in my mind were Vanity Fair in the celebrity focused covers, in these sort of big budget shoots, but also Spy magazine, which was a hugely influential political humor magazine that succeeded in doing a lot of stuff that George tried to do but couldn't actually accomplish, because, of course, JFK Jr notoriously had this fear of burning bridges. And he also just wasn't a visionary editor in the way that Graydon Carter and Kurt Anderson were.

[Lauren Garone]

And speaking to that in researching JFK junior Around this time and George magazine, something he would not touch at all was commenting on maybe the biggest collision of politics and pop culture, which was the Bill Clinton affair with Monica Lewinsky. It's something that he would not write about, talk about, or feature in George magazine. So it's a little hard to have a political and pop culture magazine when you don't want to upset your buddy Bill Clinton.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly. You can't worry about alienating the elites if you're trying to make a political magazine that is subversive in any way.

[Lauren Garone]

And also, it was thought that he didn't want to go there because of his father's own affair or alleged affair with Marilyn Monroe. But then it's like as depicted in episode I Think seven, Carolyn is pissed off that Drew Barrymore is portrayed as Marilyn Monroe on the COVID of George magazine. So he was very neither here nor there about that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that was maybe the edgiest thing that George did in terms of the COVID Although, again, it was a more sanitized version of something that Spy magazine had already done, which was make a Photoshop cover with Daryl Hannah in Jackie's pink Chanel suit with the jacket open

[Lauren Garone]

and her bra exposed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, like, that was a genius cover,

[Lauren Garone]

which was that in 89 or 93. Was she dating JFK when that cover happened?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she would have been. But also, I love how Spy just, like, openly made fun of George. Like I said this to you yesterday, but they did this incredible cover that was a parody of the Cindy Crawford, George Washington George cover, But it was O.J. simpson as Cindy as George Washington, and the COVID line was, by George, he's guilty. So good. I bought it on ebay yesterday for $10, a fraction of what the Cindy Crawford George is currently going for.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, the Wall Street Journal last week ran this article of people who have a bunch of back issues of George and are now delighted that they are selling for, I mean, relative to George copies, let's say, 10 years ago, a lot of money. But my favorite thing was the article starts with this guy who has 57 issues of George and someone has offered him $5,000 and he won't sell because he's Waiting for a more accurate value that he feels that they're worth.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's insane.

[Lauren Garone]

It's like, Buddy, you've got two weeks to sell these.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I think $2,000, and even that's inflated pricing would be the max for 57 issues of George. If you really look, you can still buy certain ones of them individually for not that much money if you just, like, took the time. Obviously, the Cindy Crawford issue is super expensive now, but the other ones aren't really. Yeah, maybe more than they were six months ago, but not. Certainly not like hundreds of dollars just for a random ass issue with Barbara Walters on the COVID Did you buy

[Lauren Garone]

that one as well?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. I think this whole George thing has made me realize that I'm just more of a Spy person and I need to be buying more of those. Although I will say the entire archive of Spy is publicly available and searchable on Google Books. So if you want to familiarize yourself with that magazine, you can.

[Lauren Garone]

There you go. It's funny that Spy magazine just openly mocked and hated JFK Jr. And kind of all the Kennedys so much. And in reality, Spy closed, I think, only a few months after or before George magazine, which sort of chugged along for a few years after JFK Jr's death. Hachette, which was the publisher, bought JFK Jr shares, and then it folded in January 2001.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, it's a fascinating pop culture relic from the time period, but let's not pretend it was better than it was. And also, there is a lot of, like, better political reporting. Not that when I was a George reader, I exactly had the framework for this, but I just remember even the political stuff that I was reading in Vanity Fair back in the day being more interesting. Like they had better writers and stuff.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, that's why I find this idea that JFK Jr. Was preordained to get into politics so puzzling, because if anything, George magazine proved how muddled his political point of view was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't even know if it's that. I just think that, like, running a magazine requires a very specific skill set that is not something that someone just has because they are in the upper echelons of society or they're clued in. Like it's like it's a job.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, it's like when celebrities or former royals are just given a production deal at a streamer. And it's like, you know, it does take a particular skill set to build a slate of successful projects between television and movies. Just saying, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I wonder how Meghan Markle's lifestyle brand is doing these days because, you know, she renamed it. It's no longer the Riviera Orchard thing. She changed it to as ever, I think.

[Lauren Garone]

No, I read somewhere. I don't know how true it is that at the Netflix office, they're just sort of handing Meghan Markle jams out to anyone who has a meeting. Like, instead of water bottles, it's like, why don't you just take this apricot jam?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's incredibly funny and cool. I hope they're actually doing that.

[Lauren Garone]

Okay, should we discuss ideas for Love Story Season 2? Because.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure. Who do you think it should be about?

[Lauren Garone]

Well, season two has not been officially renewed. Connor Hines, who is still the showrunner. I do love that people continue to be like, how dare Ryan Murphy?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is he gay? Do we know?

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay.

[Lauren Garone]

But Connor Hines has hinted at season two being about Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, which gives credence to my thought that they were going to go international. And that's why they took the American off American Love Story. And now it's just Love Story.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. There's no need to keep the American because that bars them from ever doing, like, a Grace Kelly season.

[Lauren Garone]

Very true. I don't know about you, Chelsea, but it was April Fool's the other day, and Twitter got my ass.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I fucking hate April Fool's Day. It should be banned.

[Lauren Garone]

Some Twitter account that was. I believe American Horror Story Zone published a fake trailer being like, guys, season two is going to be about Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks, which, honestly, excellent subject matter for a season two.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. And similarly to Love Story has a fashion element to it, but was it

[Lauren Garone]

that book that became an Amazon series? Daisy Jones and the Six. Isn't that loosely based on Fleetwood Mac?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but it was fictionalized enough. Like they had a. A fully separate band with fake songs. It would be a very different vibe if they did a Love Story about Stevie and Lindsay. Although I'm sure they'd never get the rights to the music, which maybe they could just get away with not ever showing them performing. I don't know. Probably not because they were in a band together.

[Lauren Garone]

It's just constantly them having just been

[Chelsea Fairless]

on stage, I guess because I was thinking that another good choice would be Curtain Court Courtney.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's similarly tragic and dramatic. It's also set in the 90s, but it's a completely different side of the 90s. And again, you know, it has the fashion component. Kurt and Courtney, both incredibly influential. I could see a world where Gen Z starts to dress like Courtney. Actually, it's already happened. Did you see the COVID of the new Olivia Rodrigo record?

[Lauren Garone]

I did, yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Very Courtney.

[Lauren Garone]

I, too, was trying to think outside the box, or at least different genres of couples. And I thought Vivian Westwood and Malcolm McLaren might be an interesting season.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yes.

[Lauren Garone]

A little more niche. But I feel like a lot of people know Vivian Westwood. A lot of people know about punk, but I really don't think many people know about their love story. And it could span many decades.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's a great idea.

[Lauren Garone]

Thank you. I have other couples, but do you have more couples?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we have to go for the most obvious choice, apart from Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor, which I feel is Brad and Angelina.

[Lauren Garone]

That's interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If it's Brad and Angelina, from, like, the filming of Mr. And Mrs. Smith to the plane incident.

[Lauren Garone]

Yowza. I think we're 20 years too early for that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. In the culture that we live in now, the nostalgia cycle is incredibly short.

[Lauren Garone]

You do have a point with that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Even when the Bling Ring came out, I remember thinking, like, isn't this a little soon to be doing this? Yeah, but maybe it's not.

[Lauren Garone]

So I was thinking about other fields and what I consider great love stories that I think would make for a good season of television. And I thought, what about Jeff Koons and Ciculina? Another great idea, because the youth needs to know about Ciculina. And just personally, the idea of the hard pivot of all of these tiktokers girlies going from Clean girl Carolyn Bassett to Tits out Chichelina would be very fun for me to watch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, see, I think Kurt and Courtney would be fun for the same reason. We need some messiness, even though, by all accounts, Carolyn was kind of messy.

[Lauren Garone]

And JFK Jr. I'm sorry, you're gonna tell me that someone who was a party boy in the 80s and 90s never did coke?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, yeah, he was doing coke. He was hooking up with sex workers. He was doing all of that. That.

[Lauren Garone]

I have other ones, but it gets a little hooey. Cher and Rob Cameletti, AKA Bagel Boy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Far too hooey. No one's gonna greenlight that, but I appreciate the thought process.

[Lauren Garone]

Maybe Love Story Season 6.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I honestly hope this goes on forever. Speaking of who's. I don't follow a lot of fashion influencers, but I really love Amanda Murray, who I believe is a stylist. And she had a really great suggestion for season two of Love Story, which is Donna Karan and Stephen Weiss, which Obviously he's the hooier one in the duo. He was a sculptor that then ended up running her company for many years. But if you are not familiar with the lore of that relationship, I suggest you give it a Google because it is the most dramatic shit in the world. They basically like long story short, they had this long spanning affair when they were married to other people. Donna Karan got pregnant, had an abortion because she didn't know who the father was. And that was the year that abortion became legal. And then maybe a decade later, after both of them had gotten divorced, they got married and then he started running her company with her until he died when he was like pretty young. I feel like this could be amazing. And similarly to Love Story, similar office

[Lauren Garone]

environment for sure a spin off about Calvin and Kelly Klein.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'd also be into that. Kelvin deserves his own show for sure.

[Lauren Garone]

Again, a sub genre I didn't know I needed, but I love, which is Alessandro Novello as fashion designers. Again, maybe the most worthwhile thing of Neon Demon is his impression of Tom Ford.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Truly.

[Lauren Garone]

Which it was announced that Tom Ford has wrapped filming of that Anne Rice castrado adaptation.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great, give it to me now. Can't wait to see Adele act also.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Lauren Garone]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Lauren Garone]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. All right, speaking of fashion and movies, we went out to the theaters and we saw Mark by Sophia.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, we watched this film in eerily close proximity to the cursed Zara.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, that's how we know the Zara is cursed. Look, we are very fortunate being podcasters. You know, we get to have what I like to call a degenerate podcast lifestyle, which means we can see a movie in the middle of the day as quote. But I was unprepared for the fact that it is spring break in Los Angeles. So the Grove was packed and the movie theater was packed with children. Although none of them were there to see Mark by Sophia.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, one day you will be aware of when spring break is, but currently no.

[Lauren Garone]

And I will be taking Morty to Mark by Sofia and not the Mario world. Movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was happy as a clam watching Mark by Sofia. But it is not a revealing documentary. It's more like the film equivalent of a mood board.

[Lauren Garone]

I was gonna say, and I don't mean to be reductive when I say this, but, like, this documentary could have been a podcast. However, like, the archival footage is incredible. But to your point, it's a very down the middle documentary. And I think the hindrance is because Sofia Coppola is such a good friend of Marc Jacobs, because there are these moments where it's very esoteric and very inside, where they're having a conversation with each other. But other than that, it's very. Like, anyone could have directed this documentary. And it's like I needed it to be more one or the other. Like, I would have been fine with them having an esoteric inside conversation that, like, you either get the references or you don't.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I wish it was more esoteric, and I get it.

[Lauren Garone]

It literally says in the title, it's Mark by Sophia. But I thought that Sophia would be more in the documentary. And she is. But there are these moments, like, where she talks about where they first met, and she goes, I had somehow seen the Perry Ellis collection, and I told my mom to bring me to Perriella's show. And then it goes into archival footage. But you actually don't hear about them ever meeting for the first time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, this is a movie about Mark's inspirations, not about Mark's life.

[Lauren Garone]

Right. And this documentary made me realize how little I know about Marc Jacobs. Like, I knew he grew up in New York. I knew he had a very glamorous grandmother. But you get hints of it throughout the documentary where it's like, oh, I had no idea that his father was a WME agent who died very young.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we need to do a book club episode about Maureen Callahan's book Champagne Supernova. And yes, this is the same Maureen Callahan who has recently been publishing a lot of articles on the Daily Mail. Like the one that's like, Carolyn Bessette was a cokehead with a humiliation fetish.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, Jesus.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Anyway, she wrote this book, the woman

[Lauren Garone]

that looks like Meghan McCain. I've seen in the Daily Mail her thumbnail.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She wrote, unless there's a different Maureen Callahan, I don't think so.

[Lauren Garone]

Probably not.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She wrote this book, which was extremely dishy, which was about Mark Alexander McQueen and Kate Moss. And what was revealed in this book about Mark's childhood was really, really dark, which was that his mother was so mentally ill and neglectful that Social services had to step in. She was then institutionalized in a psychiatric facility. He went to live with his grandmother on the Upper west side while his two other siblings were put into the foster care system.

[Lauren Garone]

What?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And after that point, he didn't really have much of a relationship with his siblings. And the siblings have said that the grandmother controlled his life and kept him away from the rest of the family, basically, after that point. So, again, very dramatic, very dark story. Pretty relevant, considering he's basically making doll clothes in this movie. It's so much about childhood. The collection that is the centerpiece of this film.

[Lauren Garone]

Right. The documentary is centered around him putting together the spring 2024 collection, also called the Doll Collection. And it's very clear to your earlier point about Sofia Coppola. If we got a Britney Spears film, it would be the version like this documentary is the sanitized version of Marc Jacobs life. And again, it's marked by Sophia. It is very much a Sofia Coppola documentary. It has a pacing of a Sofia Coppola film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I think what's interesting is the fact that Mark has had all of these struggles. His childhood. We know he's had this ongoing battle with addiction. We know that he's faced a lot of business difficulties over the years which weren't addressed in this documentary. But I do think that it's interesting that as a designer, it's like, he really does choose joy when it comes to making clothes. He's not someone like a Alexander McQueen that, like, while he has demons, he's not preoccupied with making work that is dark and challenging, which I think is interesting and I think is cool.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. It's very clear that Sofia Coppola's preoccupation is how her longtime friend makes a collection, how he comes up with ideas. And that is, I would say, the first half of the documentary. That is the narrative force. And Mark talks a lot about how he wishes he was a designer, like an Yves Saint Laurent who can just, you know, in one night design an entire collection. But really, for him, he and his team muddle their way through a bunch of ideas. Maybe it comes from the fabric, maybe it comes from references, but there's no central idea that he has. And it's like, okay, we're gonna move forward with that. Which is so funny when you see the end result of most of his collections.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, it's completely shocking that when he goes into making a collection he doesn't have a very clear picture of. It's this meets this, which pretty much all of his Collections are some approximation of that. I mean, this is like, I want to make women look like 1960s Barbie dolls. I love that there's no mention of dolls at all in this movie that, you know, he cites Alex Katz paintings

[Lauren Garone]

and Diana Ross and Bob Fosse. A lot of Bob Fosse.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I find it interesting that there's no mention of the fact that the clothes were very much designed to look sort of oversized and exaggerated and overly simplified in the way that doll clothes are, just because they're so small. And the way they fit on the body of a doll is, like, so highly specific. And he did such an incredible job of recreating that in this show.

[Lauren Garone]

I think any fashion documentary always highlights something that I forget, which is just, like, the amount of decisions and how thought out every single detail, down to the nail shape, the nail polish, color, things that you wouldn't necessarily see, even in detail shots or something that you wouldn't necessarily be paying attention to in detail shots.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, he has his hand in everything.

[Lauren Garone]

And I suppose because they lived it, to them, the 1990s and what new York was like, and that creative movement is not interesting to them to discuss in the documentary. Like, obviously, the gorilla Ex Girl fashion show in 1994.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But why was that included?

[Lauren Garone]

Okay, so that's what I wanted to get, is that footage that at least we've seen a million times from MTV is yet again featured in this documentary. For those who don't know, Sophia Coppola, when she was dating Spike Jones, they produced an Ex Girl fashion show on the streets of soho as people were leaving a Marc Jacobs show. And they show this footage. They don't show the footage of the Marc Jacobs show that was happening. They don't even ask Marc Jacobs what he thought of that. Instead, it's Marc Jacobs talking about how Gray was of the baby tea Kim Gordon made for Ex Girl, which you

[Chelsea Fairless]

could very easily tie this into his design work, because his last collection, he cited Ex Girl as a inspiration for his collection. So it's like, there's not even a. Like, I liked this, and this is what I designed. I also found it interesting that Yves Saint Laurent came up repeatedly throughout this documentary. Mark has done entire collections based on specific Yves Saint Laurent garments collections. Whatever. It's like, if you're gonna bring him up, show me what you did to pay tribute to Yves Saint Laurent. Like, let's bring it back. He did do that with Vivian Westwood. He talked about how inspired he was by Westwood. They showed footage from the Westwood fashion show. But I Feel like there were all of these things that just were brought up kind of randomly that could have tied back more into his work.

[Lauren Garone]

And again, they have been friends for 30 years, so there are certain things that I'm sure are shorthand for them, but it doesn't really help when you're making a documentary about someone and they're, again, very Sofia Coppola esque if you think about her film work. But even I think one of the most revealing things is the fact that he discusses that he was actually never fired from Perry Ellis. He goes, but people just started saying that. So I like the story, but never finishes what happened at Perry Ellis. He just goes, like. Like, yeah, I started designing at Vuitton in 97, and then I guess I was designing on my own for a couple years anyway. And then it goes into this whole archival footage about his time at Vuitton, which is great to see, but it's bizarre having Sofia Coppola as an interviewer asking him, like, very naive questions about his time at Vuitton of, like, so why'd you start doing, like, graffiti on the bag?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I do think this documentary did do a good job, and I think had an agenda to convey the fact that Marc Jacobs built Louis Vuitton into what it is today. They referenced the sunglass collaboration with Pharrell back in the day. Pharrell, of course, now is the men's creative director of Louis Vuitton. And it does seem like Sophia wanted to sort of give him credit for what he did there.

[Lauren Garone]

And did you know the story? I mean, we know that Victoria Beckham from the Victoria Beckham documentary, that she had a counterfeit Stephen Sprouse Vuitton speedy. But I didn't know that. The executives of Vuitton just, like, were like, you can design that bag, but we're never manufacturing them. And it was because of counterfeiters that Vuitton decided to put those bags into production.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was the most revealing moment of this movie. I did not know that that was fascinating.

[Lauren Garone]

There's also. And again, I think it is because they have been friends for the last 30 years, but just no interrogation of, like, the different versions of Mark over the years. Again, we see it in archival footage, but, you know, every time I see late 90s, early 90s Marc Jacobs when he was just a nerd, it's like, oh, I know. I miss him.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sonic Youth tee glasses. Like, he has had so many eras, truly. And also in terms of his design work has evolved so drastically over the years. And that's Something that's really fascinating about him.

[Lauren Garone]

And I thought if there was going to be a theme or something that Sofia Coppola was interested in was how her friend went from being such a commercial designer designing 1216 collections in a year, to now just designing one collection. And you could make the point that the spring 2024 doll collection is maybe the apex of his kind of esoteric fashion as art couture level collections.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Unwearable.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, but no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think the tension between art and commerce has always been a huge Marc Jacobs theme. And I would have liked to see that interrogated more certainly. Also, I wanted to mention what was with the part that was just about Anna Sui. Not like they would interview her or have her in the documentary, but it was almost just like she exists. Similarly to the ex girl thing.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, I mean, that is an important friendship. But yeah, you would think that they would be at like Cafe Jettan or something, all having a coffee.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Again, I think that closed. Yeah, I know it's really sad, but. But anyway.

[Lauren Garone]

But you would think there would be a scene where it's all three of them. Roman Coppola behind the camera, talking about what it was like in the 90s or 2000s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We needed other people in this movie. And also I cannot believe we have been talking about Mark by Sophia for as long as we have been without talking about Unzipped, which it was clearly modeled after in a multitude of ways, in the focus on the inspiration and the sort of film references and also in the framework around a designer creating a single collection. But in Unzipped, we had Polly Mellon and Ingrid Sischke doing sit down interviews.

[Lauren Garone]

We had Fussy finished.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fussy finished. We had friends of, you know, we had Cindy Crawford and Sandra Bernhard and Eartha Kitt. Like we needed some celebrities or some, some friends to just organically come into the world. Like I would love like if Anna sue had just stopped by to look at what he was working on.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, I mean, in Unzipped you have the sequence where Linda Evangelista hates the shoes that she's been made to wear for the collection is like, you gotta give me heels. I. Obviously we have a different state of models, but like Alex Kasani was in that collection. Can we get a little, A little scene with her?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, totally. Can we get Chloe, 70 to just come by and maybe give some insight about filming that Sonic Youth video? Like, why isn't Kim Gordon literally in this movie?

[Lauren Garone]

I guess a kind of framework for this documentary, because it is mentioned so many times, is the Zeitgeisty grunge collection that, as we learned, didn't actually get him fired from Perry Ellis. I guess the other revealing thing was the story behind the Marc Jacobs collection in the Sonic Youth video that he was so worried because the grunge collection had been so derided and Courtney Love hated him because of the grunge collection, that he thought Sonic Youth was gonna make fun of him.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I would be thinking the exact same thing, because Sonic Youth is like a level of pretentious. I mean that in a complimentary, complimentary way that transcends Courtney Love, certainly.

[Lauren Garone]

But look, I'm glad that this documentary exists. I just think it is in sharp contrast to something like an unzipped. Something like that four part supermodels documentary. I think this gets back to my original point of, like, I needed it to be more esoteric, where it's like, you either. It's just the two of them having a conversation. That's why I said, like, this documentary could have been a podcast. Like, I far more enjoyed the interview that Romy Mars did with the two of them at bookmark that's on the A24 YouTube channel. Because it's like, you either get the references they're saying or they don't. Like, at one point they get on a tangent about JFK Jr. And Carolyn Bessette and Love Story, and Romy Mars is obviously asking them about the series, and Sophia is asking her daughter Romy about, like, do you see a lot of guys dress as JFK Jr then Marc Jacobs is like, don't you? You remember when we saw Carolyn at Nancy Boy Donovan's band? And it's like, oh, I know that they're talking about Donovan Leech, who's Ione Sky's brother, who was married to Christy Hume.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Ione sky, briefly in the dock in archival footage. We actually got a little bit from Rachel Feinstein, which was like the closest to a friend of coming and talking about Mark and his work and their collaboration and stuff. Also, we can't have one question about the ad campaigns. The ad campaigns were so groundbreaking.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, the ad campaigns are even Sophia's relationship with Mark and his fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She was in the first one.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes, she was in the perfume ad. She wore him when she won her Oscar. There was that Vogue piece in, like, 2004 where they show the photo in some montage of which there are many in this documentary. But it's like, like, can we talk about the two of you?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. You did a collaboration with him when he was at Louis Vuitton. Do you still have that stuff? Let's go in your closet and fish it out. Also, sometimes you get little glimpses of things. Like, they did one interview with him in his incredible Frank Lloyd Wright house the day after the show. It's like, take me around this house for sake. Because we kind of get one shot of, like, a hallway that looked fab, which is more than we've ever seen of the house, apart from that one Gregory Crudston photo that was in Vogue.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. And I don't know. Speaking to the startling lack of his personal life discussed in this documentary, I'm not sure if it's because Sophia knows Mark's husband personally, that it's not of interest to her, but just, like, how that changed him and his design process.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I don't even need that. I just need one scene of him coming into the studio for two seconds and giving him a little kiss and then leaving. We didn't get that in Unzipped, because I believe that film was made by Isaac Mizrahi's actual boyfriend.

[Lauren Garone]

At the time, he was too busy being behind the camera.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But another thing that struck me when I'm thinking about this film in relation to Unzipped is Mark by Sophia doesn't really capture, like, the stress of designing a collection and holding a fashion show. Like, there's no drama at all in this movie.

[Lauren Garone]

I mean, again, quite like a Sofia Coppola film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The drama was like, basically when he wanted to use, like, one kind of wool.

[Lauren Garone]

Are you talking about the fabric? The conversation that reminded me of you and me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. You can relay this better than I can.

[Lauren Garone]

It's a scene where. And we haven't talked enough about. And I always love this about fashion documentaries because fashion designers are treated as these monoliths. But there are so many people that make the collection possible. And so there is someone that is a part of the design studio who seems to be in charge of the fabric and fabrications. And she's trying to explain to Mark, like, well, which one do you want if you want the double knit? And he's basically explaining like, let's just order both. And she's like, yeah, right, but one might not come in time. And he's just sort of like, so.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And you saw yourself and that girl.

[Lauren Garone]

I saw myself in having conversations with you in that conversation. Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We have this ongoing joke where Lauren is always trying to manage my expectations. Like, she will start a sentence with, I'm just trying to manage your expectations. And when she does that, I know that she's Fucking annoyed with me about something. So now she can't say it anymore.

[Lauren Garone]

No, I can't. I say it in different ways. You're right. I say it in different ways.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Now you have to vary the language a little bit.

[Lauren Garone]

We're just revealing that we have a very bitter tears of Petra von Kant dynamic, actually.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, I hope it's not that dark. My God.

[Lauren Garone]

Were you surprised?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Am I Petra? And are you. Who are you? Her girlfriend or her, like, sad, like, debased assistant that just gets like, that one.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm the assistant.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that. That's just like, like sketching in the corner, crying the whole time, watching this, like, dyke drama unfold.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm like, do you like this fabric sample or this fabric staple?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. That is an abused woman, by the way. Just so you know.

[Lauren Garone]

It is. It is not that bad. But I always want to make you happy, just as these people that work for Marc Jacobs want to make him happy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I was shocked at the reveal in the Sophia Mark Criterion closet video that Sophia has never seen Petra Von Cant all the way through, which is, like, insane to me because there are hard Fassbender movies to watch all the way through, but that is not one of them.

[Lauren Garone]

I literally had that in my notes of. What do you think about the fact that Sofia Coppola has never watched it?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Top to bottom, it's completely shocking. As a filmmaker that also makes movies that look like fashion photographs, it's, like, mind boggling that she's never seen that movie all the way through.

[Lauren Garone]

Wait, speaking of which, can we go back to that? A24 Romy Mars interview, which is a touch of genius by A24. To have Sofia Coppola's gen alpha daughter interview both Marc Jacobs, I mean, her godfather, obviously, and Gunkle. Her Gunkle. And her. Her own mother, which my favorite comments. I. I don't know if you went through the comments, but people were like, who is this. This girl? Why is she interviewing them? And people are like, it's her daughter. But Romy Mars explaining all that jazz to Marc Jacobs as if he hasn't seen it a million times. And the fact that Jessica Lange represents

[Chelsea Fairless]

death, I loved that. And I think it's cool that she's seen all that jazz and that she's apparently written a song inspired by all that jazz, which I can't wait to listen to. But look, I don't want to be overly critical because this girl is a teenager, but. But the questions that she asked them that were framed around TikTok trends were like, extremely disturbing to watch.

[Lauren Garone]

For me, a witnessing Sofia Coppola being subjected not just to these questions, but

[Chelsea Fairless]

by her own daughter witnessing this girl ask them questions that were clearly rooted in TikTok that Marc Jacobs especially has zero awareness of, and he's trying to, like, follow along.

[Lauren Garone]

But I. I did like her making her mother aware that the phrase, like, whose closet would you want a bling ring?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was great.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Mark said Pharrell and Sophia said Carleen Cerf Didziel.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which. Perfect.

[Lauren Garone]

I will say what upset me was watching Sofia explain to her own daughter who that woman was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But fair enough. Why would you know? And it is unfair of us to expect Romy Mars to carry on the Sofia Coppola lineage of cool. Like, no one can be Sofia, not even her daughter.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, as we've noted, there's the other one. Maybe there's the other daughter that looks like more like Sophia. Cosimina is, I believe her name, who doesn't even want to be in her own sister's tiktoks. I think the funniest part, to me, that just illustrates how surreal Robi Mars life must be is Sophia on camera reminding her daughter who loves Paris Hilton, that it's like, you know, when you were a baby, I took you to her house and photographed you in her pink Bentley, and she's like, oh, right, I love that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I was watching it with tat, and she was like, why is she dressed like that? Talking about Romy Mars? Because she's wearing, like, some oversized camo supreme hoodie. And it did occur to me that, like, with Gen Z fashion, like, I feel like half of them are perpetually dressed. Like, they're at the airport. Like, it's like a 247 airport kind of look.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, she says in the interview that I found fascinating that she's not very into fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she's also wearing that supreme hoodie because she's dating the son of James Jebbia, who founded supreme, and they are the Nepo baby cultural elite power couple in New York right now.

[Lauren Garone]

Okay, but.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But anyway, that must be such a wild world to inhabit, where it's like, your mom is Sofia Coppola, your dad is Thomas Mars, your gunkle is Marc Jacobs, and then your boyfriend's parents are James and Bianca Jebia. In what world? In Romy's world.

[Lauren Garone]

In Romy Mars's world. I was trying to find that article I sent you, because, look, I'll take five marked by Sophia's. I think that's more our point of, like, I wish this was a multi part series because that would be interesting. Someone who is so close to someone, kind of investigating their life and their career and appraising them in a different way. Totally. But a joy of this film was the amount of press that Sofia Coppola did for this. And one of the pieces, I was just trying to find it, but one was talking about her mom circle, which is Rachel Feinstein. Forget who else. It was like all major women. Okay. So yeah, it's Rachel Feinstein, Tamara Jenkins, and Sarah Siz.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sarah says I have no idea.

[Lauren Garone]

And they all meet at Via Coroda and they're all artists and they started getting together after dropping off their kids at school and I don't know, these are my Gen X art icons.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sounds fabulous. Also, I feel like we've been maybe overly critical of Mark by Sophia. Considering we both enjoyed watching it, I think it just made us long for more. And also, I don't think we've given it enough. Enough credit for just how visually beautiful it is. Whether it's the old fashion show footage that they're using, the clips from movies. The way that Sophia filmed the fashion show was actually really, really good and really unique in that it was mostly close ups of, honestly of the faces. You didn't even see that many clothes in the fashion show sequence, which kind of made it the opposite of unzipped. Because in Unzipped, you don't really see the clothes until the fashion show sequence.

[Lauren Garone]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But in Mark by Sophia, it's like we've kind of seen all the clothes

[Lauren Garone]

beforehand, so you don't need to see the final product. Yeah. Were you also surprised that one of the producers of this film, which I only learned during the credits, is RJ Cutler, who made the September issue, which

[Chelsea Fairless]

I found really odd that he has

[Lauren Garone]

a producing credit on this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's just kind of like, why? Like, I could see how he would be attached to a fashion project at a producer capacity because of the September issue. But like, this is a movie made by fashion insiders.

[Lauren Garone]

Right. It's like he doesn't need to come on as a producer. So A24 will buy it. A24 has cred, you know? Yeah, A24 put out Sophia's last film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like. Like, I don't get that at all.

[Lauren Garone]

Before we sign off today, could we discuss our experience before the film, which was how short they've cut down the Nicole Kidman AMC ad?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God.

[Lauren Garone]

I had joked to you because, you know, they. If you've been to an AMC, there's literally 25 minutes of trailers, which is fine. Although a lot of AI ads I was noticing in between the trailers. And then there's five minutes of AMC related commercials. Whether it's like the Coca Cola commercial or how great, you know, the Dolby system is or whatever. And I had joked to you of like, because this was going on for so long, I'm like, it's literally just going to be her saying heartbreak feels good at a place like this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it was.

[Lauren Garone]

It basically was. It has stripped all context out of, let alone that line.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We don't even see her arriving at the theater anymore.

[Lauren Garone]

Anymore. You don't even know she's at an amc.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She could be anywhere.

[Lauren Garone]

She could be at an Alamo Drafthouse, truly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And the heartbreak feels good at a place like this. Only makes sense with all of the lines that precede that. The part about laughing and crying and

[Lauren Garone]

my God, whatever she says, look, it's been so long since we've seen it, we can't even recite it by memory anymore. Also, what happened to the proposed sequel to this commercial?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think they just re cut it and thought that that counted.

[Lauren Garone]

And it doesn't, let me tell you. Amc, it doesn't.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It doesn't count. And it also sucks because what really sucks is watching the. The one ad that you alluded to about, like, how crystal clear and precise the visuals are.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which looks like. And goes on forever.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah, it's. It's not great. We are getting a 40x theater in the Grove, which I've only ever experienced 40x once, and it was to see Alien Romulus. Yeah, that's the one that came out. The last one that came out. And I have to tell you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Tracy Romulus.

[Lauren Garone]

Tracy Romulus. I have to tell you that I only learned afterwards that I guess everyone hates that alien film, but I had the best time of my life. So I look forward to seeing the housemaid two with you in 40x.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Perfect. Can't wait.

[Lauren Garone]

All right, guys, we'll be back next week. Bye bye.

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[Lauren Garone]

Hey, everyone, Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

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[Lauren Garone]

Liberty. Liberty.