273: On Babydoll Backlash, Euphoria, The Comeback

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast: Episode 273

Title: On Babydoll Backlash, Euphoria, The Comeback
Date: May 16, 2026
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni

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Episode Overview

This dynamic episode dives into the latest in fashion, pop culture, and television: the announcement of Hocus Pocus 3, major fashion news from Los Angeles, viral dress controversies, and deep, hilarious (yet critical) recaps of Euphoria and the final season of The Comeback. As always, Chelsea and Lauren bring their irreverent, razor-sharp perspective, giving listeners the insider fashion gossip, zesty pop culture criticism, and authentic best-friend banter that defines Every Outfit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hocus Pocus 3 & Other Movie News

• Hocus Pocus 3 will have a theatrical release. The hosts joke about not remembering Hocus Pocus 2 but recall the Walgreens scene with "anti-aging products and electric brooms" ([02:59]).
• Discussion about the possibility of a young adult prequel series about the Sanderson sisters ([02:09]).
• Chelsea wonders if they could make a spinoff "about the book," referencing the sentient grimoire ([03:42]).

Olivia Colman as Isabella Blow

• Olivia Colman will play Isabella Blow in a Russell Tovey-written short film about her friendship with Alexander McQueen; Tovey also stars as McQueen ([04:03]).
• Sandy Powell attached as costume designer; Sandy Powell’s involvement excites both hosts, but they lament the film not being feature-length ([04:36], [04:50]).
• Russell Tovey quote on his “lifelong fascination” with McQueen ([06:05]).

Joan Collins as Wallis Simpson

• Discussion of another upcoming biopic with Joan Collins, leading to ruminations on aging women in Hollywood, and a shoutout to recent British Vogue editorial ([05:24]).

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2. Dior Cruise Show & LA Fashion Gossip

• The Dior Cruise collection at LACMA: both hosts voice mixed feelings. Pre-show marketing hinted at ’50s Hitchcock/Old Hollywood glam, but the actual collection leaned more contemporary, with only a subtle LA vibe—namely, Ed Ruscha graphics ([09:12], [09:31]).
• Lauren: “This Cruise collection really, to me, displayed what Carrie Bradshaw in her late 50s, early 60s would be dressing like: refined eccentricity with a hint of femininity.” ([09:54])
• Notable: The proliferation of drop-waist and forgiving silhouettes is noted as a trend ([10:53]).
• New saddle bag iteration noticed; minimal use of teased newsprint bag ([11:46]–[12:32]).

Philip Treacy Takes Dior

• First Treacy-designed hats for Dior, referencing iconic Isabella Blow “BLOW” feather hat; Britney Spears also wore a similar version ([13:18]–[14:04]).

LA Details & Party Guests

• Descriptions of the event’s LA-specific touches: vintage cars, book totes with American Psycho themes, celebrity sightings (Al Pacino, Lauren Hutton, Macaulay Culkin, Miley Cyrus) ([15:08], [15:39], [16:14]).

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3. Dress Drama: Viral Fashion Backlash

Olivia Rodrigo’s Babydoll Dress Backlash

• Online outrage over Olivia Rodrigo’s babydoll dress stylings sparks a passionate discussion:
  • Criticism focuses on “pedophilic imagery” accusations and the idea she’s “giving people the ick” ([20:13]).
  • Chelsea contextualizes: Rodrigo references riot grrrl/kinderwhore looks (Kathleen Hanna, Courtney Love), but lacks the subversive context ([20:50], [21:50]).
  • Lauren: “Even if this bitch was wearing a diaper and holding a giant rattle, it still wouldn’t be pedophilic because she is legally an adult.” ([22:19])
  • Debates the 90s lineage of such looks, referencing Sofia Coppola, Jane Birkin, Lolita, and Anna Sui's impact ([23:44]–[25:15]).
  • “There are a lot of women that really, really like clothes in this style… entire brands exist for this, like Simone Rocha or Sandy Liang.” ([27:02])

Bavitha Mandava’s Met Gala Look

• She wore jeans and a sheer quarter-zip Chanel piece, stirring online claims of casual/racist undertones ([30:15]).
  • Chanel released a statement explaining the look referenced her real-life discovery on the subway and was painstakingly crafted ([31:01]).
  • Chelsea: “It’s insane that anyone could think that she just kind of ended up in this look by accident… This was the most deliberate statement about luxury fashion today.” ([31:41])
  • Both decry media cycle of Twitter outrage > news article > brand statement ([33:01]).

Anok Yai “Peeing Herself” Rumor

• A Washington Post article alleged a model at the Met had to “pee through” a jumpsuit—implied to be Anok Yai. She issued a denial on IG stories ([34:03]–[34:39]).
  • Chelsea: “Did she piss on herself? Like, I never would have known about this or thought about this if she hadn’t brought attention to it.” ([35:27])
  • Lauren calls it a “real Streisand effect.” ([35:43])
  • Comedic tangent on Met Gala bathroom emergencies ensues ([37:19]).

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4. Retail Report: Vintage Shopping & The RealReal

Vintage Fairs & Dover Street Market Sale

• They hit the A Current Affair vintage fair in West Hollywood — less overwhelming than usual ([38:11]).
• Major score at the rarely-held Dover Street Market “Market Market” sale with 70–80% discounts ([40:17]–[41:06]).
  • Chelsea: “Our timed entry was between 2:30 and 4:30 … She showed up at 12:58. I’m not fucking around.” ([41:53])
  • Stories of shoppers breaking decorum, filming TikToks in communal changing areas, and strict organizers ([43:44], [45:17]).

Confession: “I Went Back”

• Chelsea admits she returned for more bargains: Simone Rocha pieces, more Comme des Garçons ([46:36]).

Tragic RealReal Smash-and-Grab

• Thieves drove a truck into LA's Melrose RealReal location for designer dresses. “I would think they’d be going for the bags” ([51:05]).
• Wonder where stolen merch would be resold. Joke: “Back to the RealReal!” ([52:10]).
• Chelsea points out positive: “Consignors got paid out instantly.” ([52:45])

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5. TV Recaps: Euphoria, The Comeback, Hacks

Euphoria Season 3 (Spoilers)

• Both enjoy watching, comparing its style and tone to Showgirls/Valley of the Dolls ([53:00], [53:19]).
  • Lauren: “Honestly, I think it’s avant garde in our attention-deficit economy. The fact that it’s basically five separate shows in one hour…” ([53:05])
• Discussion of sex work themes, the Maddie/Jules/Cassie wedding, and costuming highlights, especially Jules’ Balenciaga runway look of bras ([54:45], [58:19]).
  • “No one on the glam team is dropping the ball… hair, makeup, costumes all at their best.” ([55:32])
  • “Maddie is an OnlyFans pimp, which is the most compelling storyline this season.” ([55:13])
• Criticisms: Rue’s storyline is its own “Tarantino movie,” tonally discordant ([56:03]).
• The “attack of the 50-foot woman” (Sidney Sweeney) sequence is praised. “So incredible… It took a year [to build the miniatures].” ([59:25])
• Recurring meta-theme: “Sydney Sweeney’s meta commentary… the most toxic version of a pick-me.” ([60:34])
• Sharon Stone’s appearance and Drew Barrymore not realizing Sam Levinson is Barry Levinson’s son ([62:43]).
• “I don’t care what journey Sam Levinson is bringing me on, as long as AI is not mentioned for an hour.” ([62:29])

The Comeback Season 3 (HBO) – Deep Dive [66:44–74:43]

• Lisa Kudrow delivers “the performance of her career… I hope she gets that Best Actress Emmy.” ([67:11])
• General tone: “I was not prepared for how dark this show was… I wasn’t expecting it to remind me of Lars Von Trier’s catalog.” ([67:35])
• Dystopian industry satire, but criticism that “AI stuff overshadowed Valerie and the whole show” ([68:05]).
  • Both wish for more satire of “reboot culture” and streaming world labor dynamics ([70:38]).
• Meta discussion on the finale and Valerie’s acceptance of humiliation:
  • Valerie (Lisa Kudrow): “You have to agree to be humiliated. I never signed on for that… I did the best with what I was given in this industry. That’s kind of all we can do in life.” ([73:30])
• Critique of additional MeToo storyline for Valerie’s husband as unnecessary ([74:43])
• Realistic industry characters, especially Billie going full “Thom Browne gay” as a food influencer ([76:32])
• “Congratulations to Daddy MPK and Lisa Kudrow. What an incredible, original, groundbreaking show.” ([78:08])

Hacks: The “Fake Ellen” Episode

• Deborah Vance tries to borrow a Carol Burnett outfit from Ellen-adjacent character (Cherry Jones) and Portia de Rossi stand-in (Leslie Bibb), with strong I Love Lucy farce vibes ([80:09]–[83:19]).
  • “Excellent fan service for Hacks’ lesbian audience who always wanted Deborah and Ava to get together.” ([83:06])
  • “It was a low blow for Hacks to allude to Portia’s alcoholism in this episode.” ([84:07])
• Hacks’ AI episode praised for realism and brevity vs. The Comeback ([78:37], [78:56])

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6. Mother Mary: Movie Review (A24) [85:02]

Summary & Critical Take

• Anne Hathaway and Michaela Coel star; supposed to be horror/art house/fashion/lesbian drama, but hosts found it “one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen in my life.” ([85:35])
  • “It is a rizzless Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant” ([86:42])
• Critique: The film borrows heavily from other works (especially Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant), lacks chemistry, filled with nonsensical dialogue and metaphor ([87:20], [87:41]).
• Anne Hathaway’s character doesn’t convincingly channel a pop diva; better suited for singer-songwriter role ([91:19]).
• Chelsea: “If you feel compelled to watch this based on the trailer, you should probably just watch Petra von Kant, Vox Lux, and Black Swan instead.” ([95:00])
• Noted controversy: There’s a real LA band called Mother Mary, whose style and name were seemingly usurped by the film ([95:14]–[96:58]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Babydoll Backlash:
  • Chelsea: “Even if this bitch was wearing a diaper and holding a giant rattle, it still wouldn’t be pedophilic because she is legally an adult.” ([22:19])
  • Lauren, on internet outrage: “It's just fascinating that Olivia Rodrigo's album might not do well because she's given her audience the ick by a dress choice.” ([26:08])
• On Shopping:
  • Lauren: “Chelsea has a vision, and you need to respect that vision.” ([18:55])
• On The Comeback:
  • Chelsea: “You have to agree to be humiliated. I never signed on for that… I did the best with what I was given.” ([73:30])
• On Euphoria's Meta Levels:
  • Lauren: “If Zendaya dies and then it’s just her voiceover for the rest of the season, I’m happy with that.” ([56:49])
• On Fashion Cycles:
  • Lauren: “There are a lot of women that really, really like clothes that are in this style… There are entire brands that exist to serve this audience, like a Simone Rocha or a Sandy Liang.” ([27:02])
• On Shopping Sale Chaos:
  • Chelsea: “They were running that sale like Miss Trunchbull and it was working.” ([45:17])
• On The End of TV:
  • Lauren: “Which is what I assume our podcast is to people as well… just something to have on in the background.” ([74:39])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:24] – Welcome; Hocus Pocus 3 announcement
• [04:03] – Olivia Colman as Isabella Blow & Russell Tovey as Alexander McQueen
• [08:00] – Dior Cruise show at LACMA recap
• [19:50] – Viral “Dress Drama” segment intro
• [20:13] – Olivia Rodrigo Babydoll Dress backlash discussion
• [30:15] – Bavitha Mandava’s “too casual” Chanel Met Gala look
• [34:03] – Anok Yai/Washington Post “pee” rumor
• [38:11] – Retail Report: vintage fairs, Dover Street Market sale
• [51:01] – The RealReal break-in
• [53:00] – Euphoria Season 3 recap/discussion
• [66:44] – The Comeback Season 3 (deep dive)
• [78:37] – Hacks: AI episode & “Fake Ellen” episode
• [85:02] – Mother Mary movie review
• [97:45] – Wrap-up; Sex and the City rewatch preview

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Tone & Style

Chelsea and Lauren’s tone is witty, irreverent, critical, and deeply referential to both high and low culture. There are frequent asides, inside jokes, and meta-commentary on fashion history and the absurdities of both social media and mainstream culture. They freely oscillate between fashion analysis and existential pop culture criticism, all with a best-friend candor and unapologetic confidence in their taste.

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Summary: For Listeners in a Hurry

Come for real opinions on fashion drama (Olivia Rodrigo’s babydoll outrage, Met Gala hot takes), stay for the meaty, unfiltered television recaps (Euphoria, The Comeback, Hacks), and enjoy a uniquely Los Angeles perspective on the high-low intersections of pop culture, style, and modern discourse. You'll leave with fashion digressions to steal for dinner parties, and enough TV theory to last until next Friday’s episode.

Transcript

[A]

Can you believe it? The business I'd been about to start lived in my head for two years. But last night, I finally bought the domain on Wix. Took me 90 seconds, and suddenly it was real. I even used WIX Harmony, wix's AI

[B]

website builder, to create a full website in minutes.

[A]

Didn't even have to stress about security, privacy, or any of that technical stuff.

[B]

It all came included. That's two years of stalling. One night of progress.

[A]

Don't wait like I did.

[B]

Go to wix.com domains AI this, AI that.

[A]

I get it. I'm so sick of people telling me

[B]

to just use AI. But weirdly enough, wix's new AI website builder really works for me. It's called WIX Harmony. And here's the thing. I get to choose how to use AI. I get everything I need to create a website, and I can either have Aria, my AI agent, design things for me, or. Or I can edit things myself. Try it for [e-mail] Harmony I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty? Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

[A]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[B]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[A]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[B]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast.

[A]

Let's get straight into it.

[B]

Hocus Pocus 3. It's happening. Do I remember any of Hocus Pocus 2, which was released on Disney plus in 2022? Absolutely not.

[A]

No. But we did like it.

[B]

Did we?

[A]

We both liked it. We did an episode about it.

[B]

Oh, I remember we did an episode about it. We also, I think last October did a episode on Hocus Pocus, the original film. Look, I'm glad it's getting a sequel, or a third film, I should say. This one will be released in theaters. Hocus Pocus 2 got shifted to Disney because it was still that pandemic where it was like, oh, do we put this on a streamer? Do we dare to put this in theaters?

[A]

Right. I need a theatrical experience. I need a stupid popcorn bucket. I need a photo op at the amc. And frankly, I really hope that one day we can get a prequel series about the Sanderson sisters. Maybe even some young adult about. About how they came to be witches.

[B]

So it's interesting that you said that, because when I read that there was going to be a Hocus Pocus three, I was like, I know I've seen the second film, but I don't remember any of it. So I went back and watched the trailer, and truly, every single moment featured in the trailer, I'm like, I do not remember this. Well, an exception to that. I do remember that there is a sequence in a Walgreens or a cvs. That part I remember. But this is all to say that there is some prequel. Yeah, flashback teenager shit in hocus pocus 2.

[A]

I forgot about that. But yes, I do remember the drugstore scene. I think they were looking at anti aging products. Yes.

[B]

And there was some hijinks with electric brooms. Ha ha ha.

[A]

I'm happy about this. I'm into it. Get that check. Sjp.

[B]

Well, according to the Deadline article, I guess after the sequel came out, Bette Midler said that there was a brilliant script and that they were going to do this third film. But. But according to the Deadline article, negotiations were halted because of the salaries that Midler Parker and Kathy Najimi were asking for. But I guess that has all been smoothed over.

[A]

Great.

[B]

I mean, Disney, what other Halloween film are you going to release again?

[A]

They could get away with paying none of them and just do sort of spin off series. The book could get its own show. What's the book story?

[B]

I mean, it's not just book, it's book. There we go.

[A]

Whose eye is that? What happened?

[B]

You know what? I would be down for a book spin off series.

[A]

Okay, we have some other movie news. It was announced this week that Olivia Coleman will play Isabella Blow in a short film about her and Alexander McQueen. This film was written by Russell Tovey, who is also playing Alexander McQueen. I have to assume he's playing the Yassified Alexander McQueen after he got his makeover.

[B]

It's hard to say. The plot of the film is an imagined road trip seeking emotional redemption. A new and interpretive approach to one of fashion's most storied relationships.

[A]

Also, perhaps most importantly, Sandy Powell is doing the costumes.

[B]

Yeah, I think the most shocking thing about this announcement is this is only a short film and not going to be a feature length movie.

[A]

And that's sad because this is truly the most perfect casting conceivable for these people.

[B]

Yeah, also Andrew High will be directing the short film and I guess he was attached to do a straight up biopic on Alexander McQueen back in 2016 when Jack O' Connor was set to play Alexander McQueen. Now that's a Yassified version of Alexander McQueen if I've ever heard one.

[A]

Also, this isn't on the dock, but did you hear about this movie that's coming out where Joan Collins plays Wallace Simpson and Isabella Ro Rossellini is also in this movie.

[B]

I haven't. Is that why she's at Cannes right now?

[A]

I don't know if it's why she's at Cannes. I assume so. But there was also a really incredible British Vogue shoot that came out this week with Joan Collins and Isabella Rossellini shot by Venetia Scott, styled by Sandy Powell, which was incredible. So I'm also looking forward to this.

[B]

I mean, all things that we care about. I love when culture feels centered to just the two of us and our

[A]

women of a certain age interests.

[B]

Well, it feels like this short could be a rare glamorous woman and glamorous man having a nervous breakdown over a weekend.

[A]

Totally. I love the idea that it's like a little road trip movie.

[B]

So Tovey, who will play Alexander McQueen and also wrote the short, said, I've had a lifelong fascination with Alexander McQueen. His artistry and Persona on and off the Runway and the way he carried himself has been endlessly inspiring. As an actor, he's a man I've always wanted to portray, and as a writer, he's a character I've longed to get under the skin of. The friendship between between Isabella and Lee is beautifully tragic and endlessly compelling. It's an honor to write about one of my heroes and I couldn't be prouder of the team that we have assembled to bring this story to life.

[A]

Beautiful. He's really cool. And I actually met him once on the subway because he had the most adorable gray French bulldog. And I just started playing with this dog and like talking to him and then I posted a photo of his bulldog on Instagram and everyone was like, that is Russell Tovey and his dog. Wow. But see, I only got through one episode of Looking, so I wasn't really familiar with him at that point, but he's quite cool.

[B]

I did enjoy when I was reading about this story that this project comes from we, the Oscar winning arts platform of We Transfer.

[A]

Oh my God, I'm so glad that you included that detail because I was like, we Transfer is producing films now.

[B]

I mean, having just caught up on the Comeback, which we will speak about later in this episode, I was like, what in the Comeback is this?

[A]

Look, Wetransfer, I don't know if you want to get into podcasts, but we will take your money.

[B]

Also, we will be a We Present podcast from Wetransfer.

[A]

The podcast isn't in the App Store. You just have to download a Wetransfer link.

[B]

I was going to say I just used Wetransfer this week to wetransfer Chelsea. A rip of Showgirl.

[A]

That was a beautiful 4K restoration that someone did.

[B]

So the Dior Cruise show happened in Los Angeles last night. I guess our invitation got lost in the mail.

[A]

It was at lacma, which is our big contemporary art museum, which has undergone this insane renovation over the course of the last five years. It feels like more.

[B]

It's been a while. Yes, they tore down the beautiful 1970s buildings which housed the theater that they would do the $6 matinees where you and I saw Beau Beauty and the Beast.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Didn't we also see the innocence there?

[B]

That sounds correct. Anyway, they tore down those beautiful buildings to make a new beautiful brutalist building called the David Geffen Galleries. This is where the Dior show happened. And correct me if I'm wrong, Chelsea, but it feels like in the lead up to this show, they Rick rolled

[A]

us with their 1950s Hitchcock imagery.

[B]

Well, that and also wasn't a newsprint bag teased.

[A]

Yes, they did that, but there was only one newsprint bag in the show. To clarify, I thought that the collection was really, really beautiful. But I think because of the way they marketed this show in advance, I had certain expectations about the way that it would look.

[B]

And your expectation was a full 50s sort of spin on things.

[A]

Yeah, even in the promo, like the model has like an insane 50s hairdo. I was thinking there would be more old hol Hollywood elements in it. But to me, the only thing about this collection that was distinctly Los Angeles was the Ed Ruscha graphics on the men's shirts, which were quite cool.

[B]

Agreed. And Ed Ruscha is featured in LACMA as well. I spoke about this a few weeks ago during our hotline episode when someone was asking about the Julian's auction and does that make you feel a certain way about. And just like that. And I had said it's when I see collections that would be perfect for Carrie Bradshaw that I get sad about. And just like that.

[A]

I know, I thought the same thing.

[B]

And this Cruise collection really, to me, displayed what Carrie Bradshaw in her late 50s, early 60s would be dressing like, which is this refined eccentric with a hint of femininity. Specifically, there was this peplum blazer that had a striped button down shirt. And then this skirt with a high slit was sort of a flowery applique where I was like that, that's Carrie. Oh, for sure.

[A]

There were so many Carrie rosettes and just sort of slinky dresses that it's really easy to imagine her wearing.

[B]

I don't know if you saw these comments But I saw many versions of a comment that was like, matthew Blasi is going to be sending a cease and desist soon. And it's like, no.

[A]

Over what?

[B]

I think people just feel like Matthew Blasi's Chanel and Jonathan Anderson's Dior look very similar to each other. And I just think that they have the same interests.

[A]

This show was maybe a little more aligned with that. I think because of all of the drop waist dresses in this show, both of these designers are creating very forgiving silhouettes. I would say.

[B]

That's a nice way of saying Jonathan Anderson seems allergic to giving a woman a waist.

[A]

Well, he's not though, because they have the bar jacket for that. But we did get a deconstructed version of that in this show. That, yes, I can see the parallels to Chanel, but he's definitely not copying him. That would be far too embarrassing.

[B]

No. But I continue to be fascinated that Jonathan Anderson. Right. Matthieu Blasi, it's very clear in the collections we've seen, he's interested in Coco Chanel, the woman. And for Jonathan Anderson, I've been surprised at how interested he is or giving kind of fan service to. To the Galliano Dior days.

[A]

Totally. But I feel like he's still wrapping his head around, like, who is this Dior bitch? Who should she be? I think another element that made the show very Carrie is how many saddlebags there were and how many different styles of saddlebags. Unfortunately, there weren't detail shots on Vogue Runway, so I could only really see what I could glimpse in the live stream. But it seems as if they have done a reworked saddlebag that is a tiny bit more structured. But I don't really have the vocabulary to explain this. But they look really good.

[B]

What was the newsprint piece? Because I couldn't clock that either. When I was watching the livestream, it

[A]

was the bag that was used in the promo image.

[B]

Oh, that's it.

[A]

Yeah. That's all I saw because that's what

[B]

I was going to say. When I was watching the Runway, I kept expecting newsprint pieces, Trenches bags. Or do you think Jonathan Anderson was going forward with that, saw Matu Blasey do his newsprint and was like, ah, fuck, pull the pieces.

[A]

I think if that was the thought process, then he would have just pulled the bag too. Why keep the bag in? And why use the bag to promote the entire collection? I'm with you, but yeah, of course we're curious what he would have done with that print. I'm sure he would have found a more unconventional way of using it. I would love to see it used as a lining for a jacket.

[B]

That would be cool. Yeah. I really feel like the. The big news out of this cruise collection were the Philip Tracy hats.

[A]

Yeah. And that's especially noteworthy because I guess Stephen Jones was the long term Dior milliner who worked on the first few collections that Jonathan Anderson did. And he then let him go and replaced him with Philip Tracy. And this is the first time we've seen Philip Tracy do hats for Dior.

[B]

And it was a riff on a Philip Tracy hat that he had done nearly 25 years ago that's most famously known to be on Isabella Blow because she had him do a custom piece for her. And it's basically feathers that spell out Blow.

[A]

Yeah. And there is a very famous image of Britney Spears also with one that said Britney. I think it was not Vogue. I think it was Harper's Bazaar or something like that back in the day.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's a really iconic piece and it also kind of aligns with the sort of Ed Ruscha thing. The floating words.

[B]

Yeah. So I guess it does make sense for Los Angeles and lacma. Ultimately. We just were a little confused with the promo that more look like the opening of Sabrina Carpenter's Coachella show. Totally.

[A]

And also the staging was very Sabrina Carpenter's Coachella show because they had like the street lights, which obviously makes sense for LACMA because there's that famous Chris Burden piece that all the influencers like to take photos with. But we also think about Singing in the Rain and that sort of imagery. I think when we see a lamp post. And then there's the old cars, the old Cadillacs and stuff, which we also saw at Sabrina's show.

[B]

And I saw a clip on Tick Tock of a woman who was taking her evening walk by LACMA and caught all of their rivals. And it seemed like some of the VIPs were chauffeured in Cadillacs in, like, old 1950s convertibles.

[A]

Very cool. I also saw that some people who were invited to this show received Dior book totes that were American Psycho themed.

[B]

Yeah. I saw a photo of Macaulay Culkin at the event, and he seemed to have the Bret Easton Ellis American Psycho bag.

[A]

I hope they invited Brett. It would be crazy not to.

[B]

Does he still have his podcast? Yeah.

[A]

And he lives here? I think he lives in weho.

[B]

Oh, he definitely lives in weho.

[A]

Yeah. Legend. Also, I loved that Al Pacino was there. That's cool.

[B]

With his much younger girlfriend. Have we discussed this on the podcast before? His girlfriend who's previously dated Clint Eastwood, Bill Maher, like she just loves dating

[A]

old name their blunt rotation.

[B]

But I don't think she's a gold digger. I mean she had a baby with 80 year old Al Pacino, but like

[A]

she just has that fetish for old people. What's that called again?

[B]

I don't know. But I'm obsessed with her because I think she's just in it for the love of the game. Just that saggy, saggy ass. She can't get enough of it.

[A]

Well, I loved seeing Al and I loved seeing Lauren Hutton there too.

[B]

Oh, wow. I didn't see her.

[A]

Those were the two celebs that I was really gagged by.

[B]

Miley Cyrus was also there in an all denim look.

[A]

Yeah, that's kind of all that sticks out in my mind.

[B]

I mean it just happened last night, so. But we gotta go to this new. The new LACMA with an Erewhon Cafe in it.

[A]

Very exciting. I'm surprised they haven't made Erewhon cafes already or just smoothie bars, really.

[B]

I'm sure in one of the renovated halls at LAX an Erawan cafe is coming. Hopefully the one that we fly, which is the JetBlue American, I guess. No longer Spirit Airlines. But the best that we had there was a Rock and Bruise and we have had many tragic early morning mimosa Bloody Mary. Ooh.

[A]

I'm eating like the nastiest breakfast burrito that's ever been made.

[B]

That is where you and I and Tatiana and Paul kicked off our east coast tour. If you remember. I have a very funny photo, I believe of us at Rock and Bruise with the every outfit award on the table.

[A]

Perfect. I am so excited to share that this podcast is sponsored by the RealReal, the world's largest and most trusted source for authenticated luxury resale. I shop at the RealReal. I also sell on the RealReal. I did a really big closet purge in January and I took all my old clothes to the RealReal. And the store credit has been trickling in every single month and I'm loving it. It's so nice to use your old clothes to finance your new clothes. And I've been enjoy buying dumb stuff like a blue faux fur Prada stole, which is very Samantha Jones.

[B]

Is that for every outfit TV for sure.

[A]

And I feel like it was free. Like it's not real money if you're selling to the real real and then buying stuff with the credit.

[B]

Well, I'm very happy for you.

[A]

Chelsea, what have you been buying?

[B]

Well, I bought a Tom Ford era Gucci top that when it arrived, it had the original tags on it, which mean it's never been worn before. Wow. Another thing that I've started doing on the RealReal is brands that would otherwise be out of my reach financially. Even on the RealReal, I'm talking about your Tom Ford's, your Celine. I search for it in my size and then I go lowest price to highest price. And you can find some great things for under $100.

[A]

That is a very good hack. Did you buy that Thierry Mugler suit that I sent you?

[B]

Okay, just so you guys know, we did discuss this in the episode. Chelsea has a specific vision for me for every Alpha tv and that is to look like Gale Weathers.

[A]

I really think that Lauren needs a lime green skirt suit. I think it would be major and

[B]

it could be mine. On the RealReal, I have a vision

[A]

and you need to respect that vision. And you also need to respect the fact that no one does resale like the Real Real. They drop over 10,000 new arrivals every day from brands like Gucci, Fendi, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany Co. Cartier and so many more at up to 90% off retail. And with their rigorous authentication process and team of luxury experts, it's resale you can trust.

[B]

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[A]

Okay, shall we get into some dress drama?

[B]

I cannot believe that we actually have enough dress drama for its own segment,

[A]

which is really more of a segment about how annoying the Internet is.

[B]

Yes, we're going to talk about multiple dress related controversies, but from what I can understand, the controversies are just random people on Twitter making comments, Correct?

[A]

Correct. So I didn't think that we'd need to have a trigger warning quite so early in this episode, but be warned, we are talking about the Olivia Rodrigo Babydoll dress controversy. She has caught a lot of flack for wearing a series of baby doll dresses to promote her new album. And after she performed at this Spotify event wearing like a teeny tiny little baby doll dress and a matching pair of bloomers, she was accused by online commentators of normalizing pedophilic imagery. And generally just giving people the ick with her little girl cosplaying.

[B]

Okay, before we discuss this, a thing that caught my eye that is, I mean, not exactly relevant, but going back to the we transfer we present. You said she was performing at a Spotify concert? It specifically was a Spotify concert celebrating each of her nine songs that have hit a billion streams on the platform. What?

[A]

Good for her. Again, our invitations were lost in the mail.

[B]

I'm going to assume, and sorry to be ageist to our Gen Z and potentially Gen Alpha listeners, but this seems to be a preoccupied occupation of those two generations.

[A]

But isn't like everyone obsessed with pedophile conspiracies right now?

[B]

That's not defined to one generation. Yeah, probably, but I don't think that Olivia Rodrigo is trying to push and pedophilic agenda by wearing these baby doll dresses. But I also don't think she's wearing it in a grunge riot girl subversive way either. I just think she thinks these dresses are pretty.

[A]

I think she's alluding to the riot girl, you know, kinder whore look that we associate with Kathleen Hannah and Courtney Love. But yes, her music isn't subversive enough to fully recreate that look. Although she did wear the baby doll dress with combat boots at the Spotify event, which is very Kathleen Hannah.

[B]

So what more do these people want? I mean, were there combat boots and David Hamilton photos? I think not.

[A]

Look, even if this bitch was wearing a diaper and holding a giant rattle, it still wouldn't be pedophilic because she is legally an adult. However, while I am a defender of the baby doll dress, I do understand why people are reacting to the Bloomers. And I think that when Kathleen Hannah and Courtney Love were dressing like this, it was overtly political because they were punks with smeared lipsticks and they were singing songs that were about sexual assault. And I think visually that look is a political statement about how violent girlhood can be and is for so many women.

[B]

Well, that's what I meant by I don't think she's wearing it in a subversive way. She has done interviews where she's acknowledged like, yes, I had posters of Courtney Love on my wall. That is what she's trying to reference. But because her music doesn't have that kind of context to it, I feel like that's the tension that's missing.

[A]

Totally. This look more falls into the virgin suicides category of things, where it obviously does speak to gender politics, but those politics are not overtly stated. And it's kind of more about this hyper feminine facade than anything else.

[B]

Yeah, she's wearing a baby doll dress in a general Sofia Coppola way, not

[A]

in a Courtney Love way.

[B]

Well, I was about to say she's to have her cake and eat it too, in the sense that, like, she's wearing it in a Sophia Coppola way, but wants it to be interpreted in a Courtney Love Riot girl way.

[A]

Totally. But also, I do think there is an element of 90s fashion where women like Sophia Coppola and Kim Gordon and Courtney Love were looking to the 60s and were looking to people like Jane Birkin and Marianne Faith Faithful and Anna Karina and they wanted to dress like that.

[B]

Also the general lack of media literacy, because I've seen a bunch of comments in describing Olivia Rodrigo's look as Lolita esque. And it's like, okay, in neither of the film versions does Lolita wear a Babydoll dress. I think what you're trying to refer to is more the Ilia Kazan film Babydoll. Yes.

[A]

Which is where the term for the dress originated. And that is a very up movie about this teenage girl that like wears a little baby doll dress and sleeps in a crib and she's married to this old guy, but he can't her until it's like her 18th birthday or her 21st birthday or something like that.

[B]

Yes, I believe they established that she is 18 or 19 or something, but she quite like Al Pacino's girlfriend. She's married to one old guy and then she wants to fuck another old guy, but played by Eli Wallach. And then there's like a rival Gin Farms or something. It's been a while since I've seen this film.

[A]

And that film was actually referenced in the Sonic Youth video for Bull and the Heather. And in that video, Kim Gordon is dressed up like this character in a baby doll dress. I think it actually might have been Anna Sui, like those famous white Anna Sui baby doll dresses from like that. That collection where it was like Naomi and Linda wearing them. And anyway, a digression, but that's exactly what I'm talking about because she was appropriating and sort of recontextualizing this up imagery. But it had very different connotations because she's a very powerful woman that was singing these like, incredible songs and has this incredible presence and this incredible strength. So again, I don't think we should necessarily go after people on the Internet for thinking it. I think that a lot of these looks in the 90s were rooted in these pedophilic themes.

[B]

It's just fascinating that Olivia Rodrigo's album might not do well because she's given her audience the ick by address choice.

[A]

But also it's like, what is the fear that a pedophile is going to see Olivia Rodrigo and get horny and then go out and commit crimes?

[B]

If that is the fear, then I've got terrible news about people posting their young children on Instagram and TikTok. They don't need Olivia Rodrigo. No, I think it's more that she's just given her audience the ick. I'm obsessed with that. In these news articles, they reference this one comment that specifically says that, and that is a phrase that we often use in dating, right? Oh, this guy gave me the ick. Or this girl gave me the ick. I've never seen it attributed to a pop star of why you might not be listening to her music.

[A]

Also, I feel like it's worth noting that there are a lot of women that really, really like clothes that are in this style. Whether it's baby doll dresses, puff sleeves, Peter Pan collars, pink lace ruffles, heart motifs. Like there are entire brands that exist to serve this audience, like a Simone Rocha or a Sandy Liang.

[B]

I mean, I'm wearing an exaggerated Peter Pan collar right now.

[A]

You are. Although you definitely don't look like a little girl. You look like a grown ass woman.

[B]

Thank you. I'm back to report on my Storyworth journey. Where we last left off for Mother's Day, I embarked on doing a Storyworth with my own mother. Each week, storywurst sends her a question about her life. She responds however she wants, writing back over email or web voice recording or, new this year, a guided phone call. That means no apps, logins or tech hassle. And we know how important that can be to our boomer parents. You get each story as she tells it, and after a year, Storyworth compiles everything, her words, her photos, her life into a beautiful hardcover book. Some recent questions have been what keepsakes or family heirlooms do you treasure most? And how did you get your first job? Now, I speak to my mother every day, sometimes multiple times a day. But I've never thought to ask her any of these questions. I've seen a whole other side to my mother, and it's freaky to think without Storyworth, I wouldn't have known the answers to these questions of who made my mother the person that she is. I learned about Storyworth because they became a podcast sponsor. But I'm really thrilled with the experience and I think it's something everyone should try, whether it's your mom, dad, grandparents, uncle, aunt. Hey, it even works for siblings. Families have used Storyworth to create over a million books and more than 50,000 five star reviewers agree it will be a treasure your family will love this year. Give mom a gift that helps her reflect on her life with fresh perspective. And give your whole family the gift of her stories. Mother's day is Sunday, May 10th. Order right now and save up to $20 at StoryWorth.com outfit. Save up to $20 at Storyworth.com outfit that's StoryWorth.com outfit. Okay, guys, we took a break from recording because we were very hungry and we got an Alfred's delivery. And, you know, not to put Alfred's on blast, but Chelsea specifically wanted a very specific thing.

[A]

My sweet onion rip and dip bagel.

[B]

I was unaware until today that there was something called rip and dip. Their bagel bites.

[A]

Yes, essentially it's a bagel, but it's very easy to tear it apart and then you dip it in the cream cheese. It's phenomenal. But it was excluded from my order, and I did have a mild breakdown that Lauren did witness. But it's fine. It's fine.

[B]

So that you weren't ordering alone. I ordered the same drink you did and then got a lox bagel and we split it.

[A]

It's fine. I'll live. The show must go on.

[B]

But Alfred's counter days.

[A]

Okay, moving on. There's also been a lot of controversy about Bavatha Mandava's Met Gala look. She is the face of Chanel, who dressed her for the Met Gala, and she wore jeans in what looked like a translucent quarter zip from the recent Chanel couture collection.

[B]

Right. We didn't talk about this look, and we didn't talk about many of the Chanel looks because it fell in a category of it's not that we disliked it. It's not like we love the outfit. We just didn't have anything to really say about it.

[A]

I also didn't see it until, I think, after we recorded.

[B]

So the controversy is what? It's that she showed up to the Met Gala or Chanel dressed her in an outfit that was deemed too casual, and therefore they did not care about her enough to put her in a gown because Met Gala equals gowns.

[A]

Well, people took that argument one step further and was like, it's so casual that therefore Chanel is racist for putting this Indian Woman in this horrible outfit.

[B]

Right. And I love how no one has given Chanel the benefit of the doubt because Chanel had to release a statement to the Independent that said that the outfit actually required 250 hours to create. And it is described as an haute couture reinterpretation of the look that she wore that opened the Chanel show in New York.

[A]

Yes. And that look was an upscale version of the look that she was discovered in when she was discovered on the subway.

[B]

So there was a story behind it. It's not. I think people just figured they were too busy dressing Lily Rose Depp and Nicole Kidman and just, like, forgot to put her in something.

[A]

It's insane that anyone could think that she just kind of ended up in this look by accident.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this wasn't the most deliberate statement about luxury fashion today and what constitutes luxury fashion.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, its connection to the body and body as art is a little bit muddled, I will give people that. But for sure, it's not like it was five hours before the Met, and they were like, oh, what do we have in the rack? Okay, just give her some jeans, I guess.

[A]

But think that a big part of Batha's appeal is that she is this regular girl that was in graduate school and going about her life and living in New York, and then she got scouted and her life changed in this insane way. But as someone that follows her on Instagram, she still presents herself like a regular girl. And I feel like this is a deliberate extension of that. They're not trying to turn her into some fantasy like she's Linda Evangelista or something. She's just the most naturally striking, beautiful, charismatic girl, and she also doesn't need all of that. And also, I don't think from Chanel's standpoint, it's wise to be racist towards the woman that is the face of your brand that opens the New York show, that closed the couture show in the bridal look where this outfit came from.

[B]

Yeah. It's just fascinating where we are at in the media cycle, where Twitter comments then inspire articles in legitimate papers like the Independent, that then caused Chanel to have to release an official statement explaining why she was dressed this way.

[A]

Totally. And we also see certain fashion watchdog accounts push this narrative for the engagement, which is really dark.

[B]

And now we're here talking about it,

[A]

and it works clearly, which is why they do it. So there you go. Also rude as to suggest that that Bovitha had no say in what she was wearing.

[B]

Yeah, all you had to do was go on her Instagram and watch a video I believe she did with British Vogue of her getting ready. And she talks about how excited she was to be invited by Chanel, how she loved the idea that it was a reinterpretation of the outfit that she wore to open the New York show. Although, to be fair, I guess if she hated it, she wouldn't do a video and do press saying, I fucking hate this look. How dare they put me in jeans.

[A]

I'm sure she had the option to wear something else if she wanted to.

[B]

Now, something that truly is rude as fuck is this Washington Post article that alleged that Anak Yai pissed herself at the Met Gala. She posted on her Instagram stories over the weekend. I usually stay quiet and keep to myself, but at Washington Post, how dare you misalign my character and imply that I ripped my outfit and peed on myself during the met gala of 2024.

[A]

They didn't say that she pissed herself. They said that she got sewn into a jumpsuit.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And then had to pee so she had to rip open the crotch to piss through it. Which, if that happened, just makes me like her more.

[B]

So because she was at the most recent Met Gala, I was like, wait, what the hell happened? And then I realized, this is an article that the Washington post published on May 4 that said, how do stars pee at the Met Gala? An investigation by the journalist Maura Judkis. And yes, someone gave a quote. They did not name a knock, but they said that someone at the 2024 Met Gala was sewn into a jumpsuit, and yes, had to pee through it. And then in parentheses, they're like a Google search tells us this is a knock. Yai, where is our journalistic integrity? Shouldn't you go to her representatives to ask for comment or something?

[A]

Okay, but because she posted this all caps Instagram story, like, with white text against a black background, I'm kind of like, did she piss on herself? Like, I never would have known about this or thought about this if she hadn't brought attention to it.

[B]

It's a real Streisand effect, because it's like the overlap of people who fuck with her and people who read the Washington Post. I mean, we didn't even read this article until she posted about this. And the fact that it's not just one Instagram story, it's two. It's the black background, all caps, white script post, and then a photo of herself at the 2024 Met Gala that said something to the effect of, if you can find any photos of my outfit ripped or urine dripping down my leg, send it to me at Washington Post.

[A]

When she was like, how dare you misalign my character? I'm like, is that even that bad of a thing to do? Yeah, like, what was her option?

[B]

Well, I don't know if I said this on the podcast last week or we were just discussing it off mic, but, I mean, there's a real opportunity for Depends to come in here and dress someone for the Met Gala. Because it's not from what.

[A]

That's the messaging. I'm sewn into my dress with only a pair of Depends, so I won't have to use the bathroom all night. I will just be pissing myself during the event.

[B]

Someone is.

[A]

This also reminds me of a time that my friend got a ticket for peeing in public, but when he got, like, the notice in the mail, the ticket was for shitting in public. And he was like, that is not the same thing. Now I have to go and fight this in court on principle because how dare you misalign my character?

[B]

I was gonna say yes. If anything is misaligning one's character saying that you pooped in the street versus pissing in the street. You are correct. Very different things.

[A]

So anaak, it could get worse. At least no one is saying that.

[B]

Oh, I mean, someone has definitely had to take a shit at the Met Gala.

[A]

I die to know who, because unless

[B]

I'm incorrect, which I don't think I am, there are not special bathrooms. Like, if you've been to the Met Museum, like, those stalls, that's where people are pissing and shitting.

[A]

I once threw up in one of

[B]

those bathrooms, and I'm sure they're doing that there, too. Okay, we've got what I'll call a retail report. We've been doing some shopping.

[A]

We've been doing shopping. And the retail seat in Los Angeles is much bleaker than you would imagine. Like, it's very rare that we go out and shop here. I would say yes.

[B]

It really takes a special event or a vintage market to get our asses out on the street, potentially waiting in lines.

[A]

But weekend before last, we did go to A Current Affair, which is a vintage fair, and blessedly, it was not in downtown LA this year. Thank God.

[B]

Yes, kudos to the organizers of A Current Affair. Thank you for moving it from downtown Los Angeles to West Hollywood Melrose.

[A]

God bless. Although it was a lot smaller than usual, which I was actually fine with, because you can't Actually go through that much stuff, you know, I get burnt out. It's like going to the Met or something. You know, I only have a few wings in me at any given time.

[B]

That's very true. But we now have a new directive which is probably not the wisest for shopping addicts like ourselves, which is, well, now we need things for every outfit tv.

[A]

See, I was putting off every outfit TV because I knew that it would bring out my shopping issues.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, truly, between last weekend, well, two weekends ago, and this past weekend, like, rip to my checking account.

[A]

I know, but you got some good stuff at Current Affair. Lauren got a Chanel skirt suit, a

[B]

really good one, because you want me to look a certain way for every outfit tv. We shouldn't spoil things.

[A]

But I have a vision, and I think this was, like, a really, really good investment. And it's so rare that you find what you're actually looking for at a vintage fair. I didn't. I was looking for suits and stuff like that too, but of course I end up with a biker jacket that has an airbrush painting of Marilyn Monroe on the back.

[B]

You did need that.

[A]

I did need that. It's an incredible piece. And I feel like normally when I see stuff like that in vintage stores, it's like either the jacket is good and the airbrushed painting is fud, or the jacket is fucked and the painting is good. But this time the jacket was actually good and the painting was good. So this is one of the best pieces I have, I think. And I got that from Recess, which does have a brick and mortar store here. We also went to the really insane Dover Street Market sale this past weekend,

[B]

which was called Market Market.

[A]

And this sale happens every three years. It usually happens in New York. I've been to it in New York twice, like, back. Back in the day.

[B]

I remember this because that was the first time you experienced people who would professionally wait in lines for you.

[A]

Yeah, well, once I waited in the line myself, and I think it took me about three hours to get in. And then the next time, I got my intern to do it for me. And she waited for like four hours, and then I came when she was like, at the front of the line, but she was really into it because then she got to shop.

[B]

Also, by the way, people that write us dms or emails being like, I'd love to work for every outfit, just know that this is probably what you'll be used to for.

[A]

But it's amazing sale because everything is like 70 to 80% off which is unheard of for some of this shit.

[B]

It is. And it is such a good sale that it got our asses to the arts district in downtown Los Angeles in an abandoned factory. I will say that this sale was very well organized. So there were timed entries, and I've never seen Chelsea like this before. So our timed entry was between 2:30 and 4:30. And I got a text message from Chelsea that was like, we will be there at one on the dot. Which is funny to me because, dear listeners, our recording time is sort of flexible. There's like a 15 minute window where Chelsea will be here probably 15 minutes

[A]

after she says, 15 is generous, but thanks.

[B]

I was trying to be generous. So I thought you were making a joke when you were like, I will be there at one on the dot. She showed up at 12:58.

[A]

I'm not fucking around.

[B]

You really weren't. Because Tat was trying to give Morty a kiss and you were like, we have to go. And we got there insanely early. There was no line. You were confronted with a decision that was really tough, which we got there so early, they were like, you could go in now, but you have to leave at 3:30 or you can wait 40 minutes and enter at 2 2:30 and be able to shop until 4:30.

[A]

We had to wait. You can't go through that sale in an hour. And once you guys got in there, I think you understood why I made that call.

[B]

Yeah. We were pushing you to be like, well, it's hot. There's nowhere for us to sit. Let's just go in now. And if you had to leave that sale after an hour, we would have never heard the end of it.

[A]

And you wouldn't have a new wardrobe right now. Thank you very much.

[B]

So let's talk about that.

[A]

It's insanely overwhelming, that sale. There's thousands of things. It's not like going into a Dover street market. It's like going into a packed warehouse.

[B]

I will say, because I've now been shown through TikTok, a lot of videos of other people going through the sale that we got very lucky. It was not as crowded as it could have been, but there's a lot of different shoppers who are there, because there are people who are there just for comb archival new stuff, what have you. There are people who are mostly men that are there for the streetwear. And then there is also just straight up designers, Jacques Mouss, Alaia, a couple of seasons old, from Dover Street Market.

[A]

Yeah. And all of that stuff was 80% off. Which was crazy.

[B]

Which is how I own an Alaia dress, praise be.

[A]

It's so fucked up though, because there's like a communal changing area where everyone has to like try on their stuff and me and Tat are in the background of someone's fucking TikTok.

[B]

I didn't know if you were going to bring this up on the podcast. I sent this to you because we go to this sale, I come home, I'm scrolling through my phone and it's someone who was just at the sale. And I mean, this is a testament to, I guess, our friendship, but I first see Chelsea from the back and I go, that looks like Chelsea. We should note there are signs in people on the loudspeaker going, you cannot not film content in the dressing room. And I scroll over to the next photo and it is Chelsea and Tat in the background of this person's outfit photo.

[A]

Tat is trying to squeeze me into a Margiela dress that is like two sizes too small for me. Unsuccessfully. I am humiliated. But this shit should not be allowed. I don't care about seeing all the shit you tried on at the sale.

[B]

Fuck off. You can literally film anywhere else. Okay, let's discuss the decorum at this sale. Because the amount of times that it was shouted over the loudspeaker, do not throw clothing on the ground. If we see you throwing clothing on the ground, you will be kicked out. This is when we were trying stuff on and the guy that was overseeing the changing area was like, I have kicked out nine people already for this. I am running out of fingers. And we were like, okay, yeah.

[A]

Then they scream at you like, if you are not in the line in 10 minutes, like, we will not check you out.

[B]

Green bans. You have two more minutes. If you are not in line, you will not be able to make your purchases.

[A]

They were not fucking around. They were running that sale like miss Trunchbull and it was working.

[B]

You know what? They were fucking around with people who went to this sale in this un air conditioned warehouse with dogs.

[A]

I know I don't need to see your Chihuahua in here.

[B]

A Chihuahua is fine. A Chihuahua is a purse dog. The amount of large ass animals with breathing issues in this 90 degree loft was concerning. And people brought their babies.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

However, I will praise those people that were throwing clothing on the ground. Because if people were not throwing clothing on the ground and abandoning it, I wouldn't have my second Courage jacket at 80% off.

[A]

Yeah, I also did get some stuff from the try on racks in the dressing area.

[B]

That was honestly the best place to find clothing because the racks are so stuffed. By the time we got to the sale, they were not organized particularly well. So the best finds I found were other people's cast off before they got restocked.

[A]

Also, Lauren, I have a confession to make. I went back.

[B]

I was wondering. I didn't realize that it was going on through Tuesday.

[A]

I went back yesterday. I had to go back. It was just as good yesterday.

[B]

Did you get more stuff?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I got a Simone Rocha dress. I got a Simone Rocha, like, fur stole. Another really crazy comb skirt. I had FOMO about the sale because I think the things I tried on the first week were like expensive to begin with, so they didn't get cheap enough. Whereas I had friends that went that were buying things that were like $30, $50 on sale. And I was like, I didn't even like go through the T shirts. I didn't even really go through the bins where all the jewelry and stuff was. So I went back and did that.

[B]

That where was the jewelry with the

[A]

Comme des Garcon wallets and stuff?

[B]

I will say I don't think we got the best stock of bags when we were there the first time.

[A]

I don't know. I got a couple bags.

[B]

You did get some cute bags. I'm very glad that I went with you guys because something happens when you're at a Comme des Garcons sale where we've dubbed it getting comb pilled, because you start trying on so many eccentric outfits and because they're somewhat attainable price wise, at this sale, you're like, maybe I could use this in my life.

[A]

Yeah. You start rationalizing the craziest shit and then you have a moment where you're like, wait, I look like a fucking freak. I should never wear this.

[B]

Well, I've also realized there's now a secondary issue with costuming ourselves for every Alpha tv, because we've now developed a new phrase which is is a waist up outfit.

[A]

I'm about to look like shit from the waist down.

[B]

But the amount of tops I bought, particularly one that you really love that had like tulle animal prints. And it was like, I'm not gonna wear this in my daily life, But a great waist up every outfit TV

[A]

look, you should wear it in your daily life.

[B]

The Peter Pan collar shirt that I'm referencing is something I bought over the weekend.

[A]

Yeah, I love this for you.

[B]

Well, because you have a vision for me. And with every outfit TV and I fully just let myself go to that. I'm now your baby doll.

[A]

I love it so much. I love dressing my little dolly.

[B]

You convinced me to buy a pink shirt, which I dislike the color pink and have pretty much never worn it. But because fortunately or unfortunately, lime and hot pink are the colors of every outfit, I had to get a hot pink shirt, which means you're wearing a lime green shirt for whatever this look is for.

[A]

I'll wear a lime green shirt. I'm not opposed to a poochy color palette.

[B]

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[A]

Anyway, to move on to other tragic retail news, our place of worship was desecrated.

[B]

Yes, I woke up last Friday morning and opened up TikTok to see a citizen video of a truck smashing into the realreal located on Melrose in La Cienica and steal a bunch of dresses.

[A]

I would think they would be going for the bags.

[B]

And I'm going to assume that the bags are hidden and locked up. This is being phrased as a smash and grab job. They used a stolen truck and then got into getaway cars. I looked this morning. There is no update on this story.

[A]

It's horrible. It makes me sad.

[B]

Have you passed by the RealReal since this happened?

[A]

I haven't. Although I was there earlier that day because I had stopped to go to the Alfred. That's next to the glossier store, which is gone now.

[B]

What do you mean the glossier store is gone?

[A]

No, the glossier store is there. The Alfred Coffee that was like next to the glossier store. Sort of part of the glossier store is now gone, which is sad. But anyway, I just hated seeing all of the clothes scattered on the street because the thieves were messy.

[B]

Yeah. I don't really understand the logic of this robbery because you're correct. There were dresses left everywhere. I think they were trying to go for all the high value things, but I think those were hidden. So that brings me to my question. Where are they selling this stuff?

[A]

Back to the RealReal.

[B]

That would be quite funny.

[A]

No. As if the RealReal doesn't have a PDF of everything that was stolen. That's already been photographed. Of course. You know, they've sent that out to every single vintage store in Los Angeles.

[B]

Yeah. Because I imagine that these thieves, if you've ever been to the physical real, real location, like what did they grab? Jacques Mousse tops.

[A]

Yeah. I would think that they would put like the Rolexes and the Birkins and stuff away at night, I would think.

[B]

And we have no further update on this.

[A]

I'm sure they have insurance and it's fine. I guess kind of nice for the people who can sign their there. They got paid out instantly.

[B]

And that's why we love the real real.

[A]

Okay. We have some TV stuff to catch up on.

[B]

That's right. Are you all caught up on euphoria?

[A]

All caught up. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I like watching this show. I'm sorry.

[B]

I enjoy watching this show. And honestly, I think it's avant garde in our attention deficit economy. The fact that it's basically five separate shows in one hour I think is brilliant.

[A]

Totally. And haters will say that it's sexist and they're definitely right. But I am a goblin woman who just wants to watch Showgirls and Valley of the dolls. And this reminds me of that stuff.

[B]

It took me until this most recent episode to get at least what I think what Sam Levinson is trying to do. Because you are correct, it is very Verhovian.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This latest season of Showgirls, in the

[A]

way it's shot, also in the way

[B]

it's shot, in the way that sex and nudity is used. It's not sexy, it's gross. And I think. I'm guessing he's trying to make a point about that. However, it doesn't really work with the way that sex work is discussed in the show. I have a very hard time. Oh, but spoilers, who cares? A lot of people do. If I get one more comment, I'm gonna lose it.

[A]

If you're not watching Euphoria, it's not my fault.

[B]

So I'm supposed to believe that Jules, who had sex with an older man she met online in the pilot episode of Euphoria, doesn't know or understand what a sugar baby is? And as if it's not obvious enough with the dialogue where she's like, wait, I have sex with an older man and he pays my rent? You then have Rue's voiceover explaining what Jules is doing.

[A]

Okay, but I loved episode three, which is where we got the Jules sex work origin story and Nate and Cassie's wedding, of course.

[B]

Yes. Well, also, I'm supposed to believe that Maddie is some sort of only fans pimp, AKA an only fans manager, which to me is the most compelling storyline going on this season for sure. But she's slut shaming Jules for being a sugar baby. Like, how does that make sense?

[A]

I don't know if she's slut shaming her. She's just saying, I am not a sugar baby because I am not a fucking hooker. Which was a great line of dialogue. Very Showgirls. Also, can we talk about how incredible Maddie and Jules look specifically overall this

[B]

season or their wedding looks this season?

[A]

Both of them. It's honestly, like, inspiring to see a show where no one on the glam team is dropping the ball. The hair is the best that it can be, the makeup is the best that it can be, and the costumes are the best that they can be. It's actually really incredible. Yeah.

[B]

I love watching this show because I think it gets to some childhood thing of me watching the post college years of 90210, and it's like, what if that era of 90210 had, like a $50 million budget?

[A]

Totally. Although I do stand by my original Criticism of Rue's plotline. It feels like its own Tarantino movie that exists outside of this world that the other girls live in. And I want to be in the other world. I want to be in the Valley of the Dolls world.

[B]

Yeah. What's going on with Maddie and what's Maud Apatow's character's name?

[A]

Lexi.

[B]

Lexi. And Cassie is the most interesting storyline. And when I'm in it, I love it. Even Maddie talking to Rue, strip club boss, I was like, this I'm more interested in. And then it goes to like, Rue being buried, and I'm like, I don't care. Honestly, if she dies halfway through. Through this season. Bold move. If Zendaya dies and then it's just her voiceover for the rest of the season, I'm happy with that.

[A]

I feel like a lot of people could potentially die. I feel like Maddy and Lexi are kind of the only people that are safe from dying. And maybe not even Maddie, because now she's doing business with Rue's boss.

[B]

I agree. I also think Nate is on death's door.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, he's also. If Ru is in a Tarantino film, then Nate is in his own Coen Brothers film for sure.

[A]

And he is on death's door. But he is in head to Tobotega. And if you're going to die, at least be hot.

[B]

Did you clock that? In this latest episode, when he's talking to Cassie, there's sugarfish, trust me. Takeout boxes in front of him.

[A]

The details.

[B]

Okay, do we want to talk about the wedding? Can we jump back?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So we're told in the first or second episode that Cassie is doing onlyfans so that she can foot the $50,000 flower bill. Having now seen the wedding and someone who was married a few years ago, that is not $50,000 worth of flowers. That is a quarter of a million dollars worth of flowers.

[A]

Well, it's a heightened show, Lauren.

[B]

Don't I know it. Okay, Maddie and Jules, yes. They have some of the best costuming of the show. It's certainly not going to be Rue, which that was a very funny moment last episode when Jules sugar daddy was like, are you fucking other guys? And it's just Ru's boxers or boxer shorts or something. But Maddie and Jules outfits to that wedding are insane nuts.

[A]

Jules is in Balenciaga, full Runway look made out of bras. And Maddie was in a custom dress by the costume designer, Natasha Newman Thomas, which was amazing.

[B]

Does it make you sad every time you see Eric Dane in the show? Of course, it's great that he was working up until the very end. I guess it's sort of ingenious how they've worked or worked his ALS into the filming, which is that Nate's dad is just perennially drunk.

[A]

Yeah. Which makes sense for him, frankly. But I loved the wedding episode overall. And you're right, it is more Coen brothers than Tarantino.

[B]

Nate's storyline for sure, because he cannot build his construction site because of a sacred flower.

[A]

I don't know about all that. He owes some people money and they're torturing him until he pays them.

[B]

That poor pinky toe.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Well, next episode we'll learn if you can re reattach a toe. I think not.

[A]

Also, can we talk about the Sidney Sweeney attack of the 50 foot woman thing?

[B]

Incredible. If you watch the behind the scenes for the latest episode, Sam Levinson said that it took a year. I don't know if that's being hyperbolic, but I believe it. To build all of those miniatures, miniature

[A]

sets of Los Angeles, I guess.

[B]

Yes. To physicalize Cassie's success on Onlyfans, she becomes a 50 foot woman.

[A]

And also because there is that kink. I don't know what it's called where people are like, obsessed with, like, are they obsessed with giants or are they obsessed with being tiny? How do people get this kink, though? Like, is it just from watching Alice in Wonderland as a kid? Because I feel like that was also a reference here.

[B]

I don't know. And guess what? Sam Levinson's not going to investigate that. Instead, what he's interested in is making a 50 foot wide fake Sydney Sweeney boob cast.

[A]

I also like what they have done with Sydney Sweeney's character this season and this sort of meta commentary about her and the role that she plays in society, which is basically being a MAGA sex symbol.

[B]

Yeah. And I think there's something about Sam Levinson, the way he writes for Sydney Sweeney and the way that Sydney Sweeney portrays Cassie that I think is hard for people to divorce. That Sydney Sweeney is Cassie and it's a very particular portrayal of the most toxic version of a pick me. But the humiliation ritual that Sam Levinson has put Cassie through as portrayed by Sydney Sweeney, is just endlessly watchable.

[A]

Totally. And is it even that unrealistic? Like, is her plotline that dissimilar from the comeback, which we'll get into in a bit in terms of how this sort of patriarchal institution is turning this

[B]

bitch out in the name of empowerment?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I realize we're only going to talk about HBO shows today and two of which Trisha Paytas makes appearances on.

[A]

Great on both, I would say better on Hacks because she had more to do on Hacks, but I loved the way that they used her on Euphoria.

[B]

And I've seen people DM us asking if we've tried Trisha's Benihana special and we're gonna get to it.

[A]

Yeah, we will.

[B]

The only Benihana, I think in LA county or the closest one to us is in Encino.

[A]

And you took me there for my birthday once. Or did I take you there for your birthday?

[B]

No, I took you and tat one year. This was a pandemic era birthday situation. Right. But you know, sometimes when you're sad, you need to have a hibachi cook. Throw a shrimp in your mouth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To make you feel alive again.

[A]

So true.

[B]

But I will say the one thing that I enjoy about Euphoria is not one mention of AI.

[A]

Thank God, the one space where we are free from AI commentary.

[B]

So I will take this at times nonsensical plot.

[A]

Wait, are we talking about Hacks or the comeback?

[B]

I was talking about Euphoria. Still. Okay, I don't care what journey Sam Levinson is bringing me on, as long as AI is not mentioned for an hour.

[A]

I'm with you.

[B]

Have we talked about Sharon Stone being in Euphoria at all?

[A]

No, but that is one of the other things that makes it Verhoeven esque and Showgirls esque because she was originally supposed to be the Gina Gershon character.

[B]

That does make sense. Did you see the clip of Sharon Stone on Drew Barrymore Show? And Sharon Stone blows Drew Barrymore's mind because Sharon Stone is explaining like, oh, I first met Sam Levinson through his father, Barry Levinson, because I was in the movie Sphere and Drew Barrymore's like, like, Sam Levinson is Barry Levinson's son.

[A]

I am surprised that she didn't know that.

[B]

It is surprising. I love the show because it is so maximalist, but it is also rudderless. Like, I don't know where any of these characters are going. And the Jewel storyline where Lexi invites her to do a painting on LA Knights, the teen nighttime soap opera. This is where it does feel very Beverly Hills 90210 or like saved by the Bell where it's like, like totally one person has a job and therefore all the characters in this world have to have related jobs, which would never happen.

[A]

I could see the painting debacle happening on and just like that.

[B]

Also would have loved that storyline. Would have loved what? Giuseppe painting a naughty painting for Charlotte's gallery also. So Jules paints a painting for the show and there's dicks in it. So they're like, could you paint over the dicks? And instead she just ruins the painting and then never gets picked up again.

[A]

I know. As if this bitch would be like, how dare you shit on my transgender identity? Like it does the characters intelligence a disservice. Like, this painting is a prop that

[B]

she's making and she realized that she herself was a prop to the entertainment machine. But we move on quickly because now it's like, now Cassie's gonna be on the television show. And again, does this feel like euphoria? No. Is this a show I would like several seasons of?

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

Much like the Comeback, I would pay an extra fee for just an AI generated version of La Knights.

[A]

Okay, do you want to get into the Comeback now?

[B]

Let's. Let's do it. Our next sponsor is Smalls. They make fresh human grade food for cats. It's made from the same stuff you or I would eat, but formulated specifically to help cats thrive. Do Chelsea or I have a cat? No. But some of the nearest and dearest people in our lives do. And they will not shut up about what their cats will and will not eat. False or fact. The first ingredient in most grocery store cat food is water and corn. Fact. Most cat food is filled with water and fillers. So I can understand my friend's concerns. Cats are obligate carnivores. What does that mean? Well, it means that cats need lots of real meat to stay healthy. But most cat foods out there use meat byproducts and cut their food with cheap grains, fillers and artificial ingredients. Basically, stuff that isn't great for your cat. Big pet food does this because it's cheaper to make. But what they save on cost your cat pays for with their health. My friend Kayla rescued three cats and she loves telling me about their scarfing and barfing daily journey. So I of course told her about Smalls, because Smalls is different. Their fresh recipes are over 80% animal protein, and they never use fillers or artificial ingredients. A balanced diet leads to less shedding, fewer hairballs, and more silky shine. And their food is so healthy that 88% of cat parents say that after feeding Smalls, they notice that their cat has better digestion, so less junk comes out the other end. You heard me correctly, that means less stinky poops. And as someone who has had to clean out cat litter boxes while house sitting for various friends. I think we can all agree that's a good thing. So stop serving your little carnivore a bowl of processed shortcuts for a limited time because you are an Every outfit listener. Get 60 off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com outfit one last time. That's 60 off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com outfit I

[A]

just want to say watching the entirety of the Comeback in the last couple months has been one of the great pleasures of my life life.

[B]

It is a very unique experience, I think, for anyone that has ever been a part of any creative endeavor that has gone horrifically wrong. Watching every season of the Comeback, but specifically season three is just one PTSD flashback, but maybe that's just my experience.

[A]

Totally. And Lisa Kudrow does give the performance of her career in this show. It is incredible and I hope that she gets that Best Actress Emmy, which means that Jean Smart would have to lose for hacks for once. But I can see a world where that happens if there is a just God.

[B]

Well, there isn't a just God, Chelsea, because if there was, then someone wouldn't have driven a truck through the realreal.

[A]

True, I said this when we talked about the Comeback on our VIP episode, but I was not prepared for how dark this show was. Everyone told me that it was funny, so I wasn't expecting it to remind me so much of Lars Von Trier's catalog. But I have continually enjoyed the incredibly dark tone of this show.

[B]

Yeah, to call this season dystopian. I believe the definition of dystopian is a future time. Like, we're here.

[A]

Okay, we're here, but we're not. Because look, I don't like the AI plot line in this last season. I'm fine that they touched upon AI, but I feel like the AI of it all overshadowed Valerie in the whole show. And I feel like like since the last season of the Comeback, with the rise of streaming, there's truly so much stuff to satirize. And I like the Comeback because it's satirizing these sort of insider industry things, and I feel like they kind of lost some of that by focusing on the AI. And also, it's kind of like a theoretical AI scenario. Right? Like, I'm sure people are using AI to write television shows now, but even if they are, those shows would still have at least one writer in a showrunner Right. Like, there's no example of a show like, how's that right now?

[B]

No, it's definitely a heightened world of what AI could be. And clearly Michael Patrick King wanted to make a statement. I mean, more so than, I think, any season. Valerie is Michael Patrick King's avatar. And especially in the last episode, where you have other showrunners played by Bradley Whitford and Adam Scott and Justin Theroux. Making Valerie the one person who can stand up against AI is certainly the theme of this season, which is you need writers. But yes, I think the more believable or logical place we are in the entertainment industry with AI is the idea that an algorithm will create an idea that it deems the most successful, and then potentially screenwriters would punch up these ideas or actually flesh it out. I don't like this. I have always stood by the idea that we need to bring back more cocaine into the entertainment industry because people don't know what they want. That's the whole thing about any creative industry. You need tastemakers who are on cocaine

[A]

who are going to take big swings.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. You think AI is going to take a Disney script about a guy that hires a hooker for the weekend called 3000 and then throws the $3000 on her when he finds out she's a drug addict and turn that into a Cinderella esque fairy tale starring Richard Gere and Julia Roberts? No executives on cocaine did that.

[A]

Yes, they did. It's so true. And I also just genuinely would love to see how the show would have handled talking about something like reboot culture.

[B]

I think where we're at in the industry at this very moment is the contraction of the big streamer boom mixed with favoring nostalgia over new ideas. I felt that the showrunners, played by Abby Jacobson and John early, was such a lost storyline and story point.

[A]

Yeah, I was sad when they went away for sure.

[B]

But who I was surprised by in watching the series. Did you know that the IT guy on the show that wants to be a writer and actually pitch is some of the best jokes? That's Lisa Kudrow's son.

[A]

Someone just told me that. But yes, that's cool.

[B]

I thought he did a pretty good job. I thought it was going to be more of a cameo or something, but he did. He's a very good actor. I didn't think it had the sharpest commentary. We talked about this, I think, on our VIP episode in regards to. I mean, obviously we're gonna have feelings about this, but Valerie having a podcast and having a social Media person and the breaking of the format, which is shooting a reality show.

[A]

Yeah. I still don't understand why they weren't shooting a reality show the entire time.

[B]

I mean, they sort of were. But as we learn, Jane never signed an NDA so that she could tell the truth about AI.

[A]

Yeah, I found the various ways that this was filmed to be confusing. I don't mean the way that the show was actually filmed. I mean the filming within the world of the show.

[B]

Because sometimes we're seeing things on kind of ring cam security footage. Her husband has a reality show within the show as well.

[A]

Sometimes it's through the social media manager's camera. Sometimes it's Jane with a full crew. Sometimes it's Jane Solo with an old timey black and white camera.

[B]

That's how she finishes the documentary.

[A]

I will say the last scene of the Comeback did bring tears to my eyes.

[B]

Knowing that this was the last season of the Comeback, I was interested of how they were going to end the series, especially with what we saw within. Just like that. But it was nice that Valerie completes her mission, I believe of being a serious actress, or at least an actress that did. She is respected. I mean, okay, let's.

[A]

She did that in season two with scene red.

[B]

Yeah, I guess you're right. But the Bradley Woodford character, it seems, is supposed to be a David E. Kelly, but has a Chandra Rhymes Grey's Anatomy esque show. Right. And ultimately creates a show for Valerie Cherish. Yeah, I got very choked up in the last moments of the show as well. And you just see these title cards of where Valerie ends up going. And it did not as intensely, but it did hit me like the end of Six Feet under where knowing where the character ends up, there's something highly emotional about them.

[A]

Totally. But I feel like that final confessional scene with Jane, like offered a spiritual lesson, really. And Jane basically says something like, I've watched you be humiliated and degraded for all these years. How did you deal with that? And Valerie said, you have to agree to be humiliated. I never signed on for that. And then she basically goes on to say, I did the best with what I was given in this industry. And that's kind of all we can do in life, being the subtext is do the best that you can. And I thought it was a really profound and perfect way to end the show. And also the song that it then cut to.

[B]

Right. Valerie gets her happy ending. But also, it's not like they defeat AI and they say as much. There's no defeating this. But it seems like the message for the future is like, shows will still exist, we still need writers, but then we're just gonna have this schlock that runs, as it says in the title cards at the end of the series of her show. It has a 70% complete rate because it's just something to have on in the background.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is what I assume our podcast is to people as well.

[A]

Yeah. I think people have always consumed television differently, and there's always been shows that are great and shows that are just pieces of shit, and that's how it's always been. But one thing that I was surprised by, and I can't remember if this happened in the last episode or in the penultimate episode, but when they really got into her husband's, me too. Shit. Why did they do that to him? Because I went through the first two seasons of the show not thinking that this guy was a piece of shit. And then in season three, they're like, how many different ways can we show you that this guy is a piece of shit?

[B]

I was catching up on the last three episodes, so I watched them back to back to back. But. But you get a hint that they had to make a lifestyle change. And you're told throughout most of the series, oh, he made an inappropriate joke that people took the wrong way. And then you're right. Either in the penultimate episode or the final episode, he's like, I me tooed people. And you're like, wait, hold on. What?

[A]

Like, I had sex with employees that perhaps thought that they had to have sex with me to keep their jobs. And also it's introduced that he got kicked out of a golf club for me too. Shit, I feel like you have to commit capital R rape to be kicked out of a golf club. Like that goes beyond, like, sexual harassment and stuff.

[B]

Well, also, it's not a bigger plot point. Right. Because the catharsis is. He tells Valerie that he's like, I don't want to do the show. He quits the reality show, and then their marriage is back on track.

[A]

Yeah. And she's like, it's okay, you're different now. And I as the viewer am like, like, what exactly did he do? And why are you introducing this?

[B]

There was no need to introduce that.

[A]

No.

[B]

How did you feel about her former publicist, now manager, now wannabe food God esque influencer Billie storyline?

[A]

I thought it was funny that they made him like a Thom Browne gay, which is a specific kind of gay in the entertainment industry. I thought that was a very astute costuming Choice.

[B]

I also felt like he got off scot free because he is such a bad executive producer, which is a role that he desperately wanted. And whatever. The episode is where Valerie's begging him to go to the color grading session, which no one knows what color grading is, which made me laugh. And he won't. And so she's like, okay, I guess I have to leave this very important meeting to go do that. Like, it made me deeply upset. And. And that's another thing that I felt like they glossed over, where it's like, I want to be an influencer now, and now I am. Which, to be fair, very funny line.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I'm going to the Marc Jacobs fashion show. They've guaranteed me second row.

[B]

Yeah. Marc Jacobs has asked me to be at his show. And she's like, oh, you're going to be in the Marc Jacobs show? He's like, no, I'm going to be sitting in the second row of the Marc Jacobs fashion show.

[A]

Too real. And I saw that Marc Jacobs posted that scene on his Instagram, which was cute. Yeah.

[B]

I think they were very successful in giving Valerie a happy ending, but it is a bittersweet ending because, I mean, this is the direction that the industry is going towards. Yeah, who the hell knows? I mean, I guess presumably we could be replaced by AI we could just feed AI our entire library of our podcasts and then put in topics and then just go, what would Lauren and Chelsea say about these things? Things. I guess I don't like it.

[A]

No one likes it. But anyway, even though we do have these criticisms about the last season, obviously I do want to give Daddy MPK and Lisa Kudrow their flowers, because what an incredible, original, groundbreaking show.

[B]

Congratulations to them. All right, let's jump into Hacks. They did their own AI episode, which it's fascinating that. That HBO chose to release the Comeback and Hacks at essentially the same time.

[A]

Totally. Because there would be no Hacks if not for the Comeback. But also, I feel like the Comeback is responding to the fact that Hacks exists. They're in dialogue with each other in this really strange way. Although I think that how hacks handled the AI stuff was better because it was limited to one episode.

[B]

Correct. And that feels like a more realistic application of AI in this moment, which is some asshole tech bro wants to mine Deborah Vance's back catalog so that it can help people write better bachelorette speeches or wedding speeches.

[A]

Right. Also, I thought Hacks did a good job of distilling the argument for and against AI which was Represented by, you know, Ava being the against position and Deborah being the 4 position until she wasn't.

[B]

I think where most people are with AI, or at least I am, is displayed through Deborah's own view about AI, which is, yeah, it's fine if you want to use it as a tool, but it will never replace creatives. And that's where the ultimate friction comes in with that tech bro guy is he's like, no, it can replace comedians. And it's like, no, I don't understand. Sorry. This is now becoming a referendum about AI, But I don't understand. It's fine to use it as a tool. I get that. Why do you want to replace wholesale creatives and people? AI doesn't have taste. You can't train it to have taste

[A]

because of money, honey.

[B]

All right, I think the episode we really want to discuss is the fake Ellen DeGeneres Portia de Rossi episode.

[A]

Oh, my God. This episode was titled Monaco. It's one of the greatest episodes of television I've ever seen in my life.

[B]

Well, it starts off strong with a Bob Mackie cameo.

[A]

Bob Mackie as himself talking to Deborah Vance about dressing her for her show at Madison Square Garden. Incredible.

[B]

This is a bit of a stretch, just plotline wise. So Deborah, for her special, wants to wear an outfit Carol Burnett wore on her last show.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That is owned by Cherry Jones, who is a version of Ellen DeGeneres.

[A]

See, I don't even think it's that big of a stretch. Yes, it's a stretch that they would do this whole farce just to get to this costume. Of course. But there are many aspects of this episode that felt very realistic to me.

[B]

Oh, I just mean Deborah being like, I have to wear an outfit that Carol Burnett wore instead of just having Bob Mackie design something for her.

[A]

It does make sense, though, now in a culture where you can't just wear a fucking dress anymore, There has to be some sort of larger narrative. I mean, we just. Just stopped talking about the Met, which has basically become all about that. It makes sense that Deborah Vance would want a look with some lore, I think.

[B]

Sorry, what was the Bob Mackie line about Sabrina Carpenter? I was trying to find it so funny where he's like, I got Sabrina Carpenter on my heels.

[A]

I forget. But it was funny. So Cherry Jones is playing Ellen DeGeneres. Leslie Bib is playing Portia de Rossi. Although it's not like Cherry Jones is doing her version of Ellen DeGeneres. She just has Ellen DeGeneres life.

[B]

Yes. Because it is a parallel Reality where I assume Ellen DeGeneres does not exist in the world of hacks. But it's almost the rivalry between the Cherry Jones character and Deborah Vance is similar to Rosie o' Donnell and Ellen, who just don't fuck with each other.

[A]

Right. I mean, I think they supported each other publicly, but behind the scenes, that was clearly not the case.

[B]

So the idea is Cherry Jones has collected the Carol Burnett jumpsuit because she is a voracious collector, which is true of Ellen DeGeneres. Deborah Vance made fun of her when she came out. It's alluded to that Cherry Jones's character had a very public coming out and she subsequently had some sort of talk show that she is now retired from.

[A]

Yeah, but the things that make it most Ellen is that she's in like a map black farmhouse in Montecito. Ellen has a very specific style of decor that she favors. Ellen and Portia.

[B]

This is where I think hacks is the strongest, is when episodes feel like an I Love Lucy episode where there is a game within the episode. And the game of this episode is that Deborah and Ava have to pretend to be a lesbian couple to get this suit.

[A]

Yes. Which is excellent fan service to hacks lesbian audience who has kind of always wanted them to get together just because they do have the sort of relationship that is very intimate. They fight like a couple.

[B]

They do. Look, I love this episode. I still am not sure why Cherry Jones agreed to give the suit to her.

[A]

I am surprised that Cherry Jones did this just because the lesbian world in Hollywood is not big. And it was even smaller back in the 90s when Ellen and Sherry were making names for themselves. All these women know each other, which leads me to believe that Cherry Jones probably had an annoying interaction with Ellen at some point back in the day, which is why she didn't give a fuck about doing this. But it is pretty nuts.

[B]

I believe that that is true.

[A]

Also, it was a pretty low blow of hacks to allude to Portia's alcoholism in this episode.

[B]

Oh, is that a thing?

[A]

Yeah, she's been to rehab. Like, that's part of the lore of Ellen and Portia is the fact that they are big drinkers. So to bring that into it, I was also surprised by.

[B]

See, that went over my straight head.

[A]

But clearly they give no and that's cool. Ellen has obviously pissed off a lot of people in Hollywood.

[B]

I heard that Ellen and Portia are coming back to the United States. Is that true?

[A]

I don't have inside information.

[B]

I don't know what are the lesbian

[A]

Streets saying, I don't know anything about Ellen and Portia's whereabouts, but I felt that Cherry Jones and Leslie Bib's relationship was very realistic. Like, that was like a scarily realistic

[B]

depiction of a couple, including Leslie Bib, ending the episode with wanting to rescue yet another animal.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Well, I look forward to Deborah Vance's 911 comedy special.

[A]

Okay, enough television. We gotta talk about Mother Mary.

[B]

Yeah, we've been talking for a while and we're gonna end the episode with a movie that maybe six people saw, of which Chelsea and I are two of those people. We meant to discuss this on our VIP Devil Wears Prada 2 episode. I didn't get a chance to see Mother Mary and quite literally had to run to the theater last Wednesday before it went out of movie theater. So I would call this film Mother Mary Colon Exorcism at the ERAS Tour. Which, honestly, if the movie was that, I think we probably would have liked it more.

[A]

Truly, this is one of the worst movies that I've ever seen in my life.

[B]

So this is the other reason I wasn't rushing to go see it in theaters is you hated it so much that I was like, great. I can't wait to spend two hours away from my baby to watch this bad movie. And not as bad as I was expecting.

[A]

Interesting. See, I actually contemplated walking out, which I never do.

[B]

Oh, it's 30 minutes too long. There's no reason that this movie should be two hours.

[A]

But still, at least it's not over two hours. It could be worse. I just found it to be incredibly boring. And it's weird because it has so much DNA from the Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant, which is a film that both of us really like. It has the sort of lesbian fashion designer element. It has the isolated setting element. It has the sort of the presence of a semi mute assistant played by Hunter Schaeffer in this film. Yet somehow this film has none of the good things about Bitter Tears of Petrovon Kant.

[B]

It is a rizzless. Bitter Tears of Petrovon Kant.

[A]

Yeah. I guess there is a barn dance though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there music to that dance?

[B]

No, because Mikaela Cole doesn't want to

[A]

hear that song and we never get to hear that song.

[B]

So, yes, the trailer made the film seem like more of a horror film which A24 has done really well with. Between Long Legs. They're coming out with backrooms. This is more a character study with very long winded, nonsensical metaphor laced dialogue metaphors. So nonsensical or as nonsensical as the plot itself.

[A]

Yeah, I told you, when I got out of the theater, I was like, I feel like I'm watching the. My youth play from Sex and the City. Like Michaela Cole specifically. While I think she's a great actress and is certainly riveting to watch on screen, it does feel like she is in the West End on a stage and not in a movie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Anne Hathaway is in a movie. They don't have good chemistry together at all.

[B]

Well, also because they are friends who have had a falling out. And you imagine that in the film, which has many flashbacks or really just very specific flashbacks to Anne Hathaway's tour, that you're going to get an explanation of why these two don't speak to each other anymore. And all we get is in a line of dialogue that Michaela Cole was pushed out.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because Anne Hathaway wanted to work with another designer. Which seems fair after 13 years.

[A]

Yeah, but there's also, like, pretty intense lesbian subtext. Like, we almost don't believe that they were just friends. And it doesn't help that there's this, like, sort of vaginal red chiffon monster that keeps appearing that, like, you know, kind of looks like one of the screensavers that comes up when you buy a new Mac.

[B]

Okay, should we get into this? Which is. Anne Hathaway is a pop star who has had a nervous breakdown. At least that's what the public thinks. She is going to come out with a new song and doesn't like any of the dresses that her new costume designer has shown her, is dressing her. So she, without telling anyone, gets a private jet, which. I'm sorry, I don't believe a pop star at her level who has been infantilized probably since her early 20s, knows how to book her own private jet, but that's neither here nor there. Flies to London from Los Angeles to have Michaela Cole make a dress for her in three days.

[A]

Yes. And as a fashion designer, Michaela Cole is like some sort of Harris Reed, Robert, 1 Iris Van Herpen type of girl, but also clearly inspired by McQueen.

[B]

Here's why the movie wasn't the worst movie I've ever seen. Is there has not been a more disappointing theatrical experience than when you and I saw Neon Demon together.

[A]

See, I disagree. I think Neon Demon is better.

[B]

See, I didn't have expectations going into this film. I think I rate Neon Demon a more disappointing theatrical experience because you and I went to go see Neon Demon at the now defunct ArcLight and we were so excited about it. And I remember the lights came up after the movie ended and you were apoplectic. You were like, I don't. Wait, hold on. But there's so many things we. But it's not good. I don't.

[A]

Okay, but it's better than Mother Mary because at least in Neon Demon, they leave the barn, metaphorically speaking.

[B]

Right. The barn that Anne Hathaway spoke about in her Vogue piece of being the most physically excruciating moving experience of her life. And when you came out of the theater and you were like, this movie's terrible. I'm like, but how are the barn scenes? You're like, it's 80% barn easily. Okay. My favorite part of the movie was when they both figure out that the blood clot demon that's haunting them might be connected.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

There are a lot of logic plot holes in this movie, some of which I'm willing to overlook. Like Anne Hathaway's Mother Mary, her musical Persona is at times Lana Del Rey and at other times Taylor Swift, but

[A]

I think probably closest to Lady Gaga as an artist.

[B]

Sure. But you know lyrics like, my mouth is lonely for you. I mean, could be Taylor, could be Lana.

[A]

Yes. I think she's a combination of many people. She also has those Ariana Grande hand tattoos.

[B]

Yes, those delicate hand tattoos.

[A]

But here's the thing. Anne Hathaway isn't just a Charlotte, she's also a Marnie. And therefore it is too much of a stretch for her to play someone like Lady Gaga in a movie. If she was playing a singer songwriter like Sara Bareilles or perhaps like a Maggie Rogers type person. Sara Bareilles, she could win another Oscar. But Gaga, no, it's just not possible. It's not convincing.

[B]

Well, this film was also sold as I think when we saw the trailer, what excited us about this movie was it could be a horror supernatural version of the Bitter tears of Petra Von Khan's and like, that's cool. Put it. You know, taking an art house film and putting a different genre in it is exciting. Except nothing exciting happens in this film. Not even the haunting, which was so difficult for me to get into because it makes no sense. I just want to go through with you what is being explained an hour plus into the movie, which is Mikaela Cole is like, after you fired me, I went to see you in Hyde Park. My wisdom tooth exploded during that performance. Oh, that's right. She lies to her and is like, I cracked my tooth at your concert because I was so Mad at you. And then she's like, no, I had surgery. But this weird thing happened where after the surgery I woke up, up, and there was a. Like, a blood clot demon that I saw. And then Anne Hathaway is like, it's so weird. A couple of years ago, seven years after that happened to you, I was performing in Dublin and FKA Twigs did a seance. And now the blood clot demon is in me, which I take to mean is a metaphor for their fractured friendship.

[A]

Again, I don't think we should be friend zoning. This. This is not how friends interact with each other. And especially with the sort of vaginal monster and stuff. I don't know. Call me crazy. I just feel like it's 2026. If we're going to lez out, let's lez the fuck out. Like, I actually can't watch another one of these movies where it's just like bitches, like, gazing longingly into each other's eyes. Like, I'm done with that.

[B]

But didn't you, like, when Anne Hathaway cut her chest open to make a chest vagina and then red chiffon came out and that's what Michaela Cole is going to make into a dress. A dress we never see. The premise of the film is, I need you to make me a dress. And we don't fucking see the dress.

[A]

Don't we see the dress for like two seconds, almost in a fantasy sequence, but then we don't actually see her performing in the dress. Like, the whole movie is leading up to a performance that we never see. For a song that we never hear that's supposedly incredible.

[B]

You would think that Michaela Cole is dying because David Lowry, who wrote and directed this film, he did the Green Knight before, uses this narrative trope of what would otherwise be a person dying. Because the end of the film is Hunter Schaeffer explaining what Anne Hathaway's performance 24 hours from now or 72 hours from now is going to be like. And Michaela Cole's imagining this as if it's the end of the film Big Fish. And Billy Crudup is explaining to his father during his death throes what his funeral is going to be like. Like that. I don't understand. Yeah, it's just. It's nothing. It's neither here nor there. It's not a supernatural film. It's not a horror film. It's not a very good fashion film. It's not a very good lesbian film

[A]

or a very good drama.

[B]

Yeah, I think the issue is, if you want any version of that film, there are better versions. There are better friends falling out. There are better lesbian drama films, There are better horror films, There are better fashion films.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I feel like if you feel compelled to watch this movie based on the trailer, you should probably be watching Petra Von Cant, Vox Lux, and Black Swan.

[B]

It so wants to be Black Swan and it's not.

[A]

It's really, really trying hard to be Black Swan. Also, I sent you a TikTok about this, but there is an existing band called Mother Mary that is based in Los Angeles. These two identical twin sisters that make this sort of, like, dark, moody electronic pop music. And their look, their sound, and of course, their band name is identical to Anne Hathaway's. It is pretty crazy. Like, I'm not so conspiratorial that I think that, like, the director, like, found their music and sent it to Charli XCX and FKA Twigs and was like, copy this. But I have a really hard time believing that no one involved in this film was aware of this band.

[B]

I agree with you. Although the TikTok that you sent me by this guy Nick Holliday, it does do one of my pet peeves, which is saying that A24 made this film. And it's like A24 is a production company and a distributor. But I will agree someone in their legal department probably checked if there was a Mother Mary. My other issue is this guy, Nick Holliday, who made this video, describes Mother Mary as a film about an electro pop star called Mother Mary exploring religious iconography while grappling with her sexual identity in a patriot patriarchal world. Is that what the movie's about? I wish, I wish.

[A]

I think the grappling with the sexual identity in a patriarchal world was all subtext. But that is very much what the existing band Mother Mary's music is about. It's wild because I had watched all these tick tocks about this. I'd gone down a bit of a rabbit hole. And then I met this girl the other night, this cool blonde girl, and I was talking to her and she was talking about how she was in a band, and I was like, what's your band? And she was like, mother Mary. What are the odds?

[B]

It is unfortunate that the film Mother Mary, which again, I think only six people saw in theaters now, overshadows this band, Mother Mary, because in researching this, it was very difficult to find their music and music videos totally.

[A]

And also they put the soundtrack on Spotify and stuff. So it also like directly competes with their music, which I would say is is better than the music in Mother Berry the film, certainly. But in terms of the production and the genre of music, it is very, very similar.

[B]

I agree. I've listened to their music. I've listened to Mother Mary Anne Hathaway's music.

[A]

So I am on the side of Mother Mary the band. Fuck this movie. This movie should never have been made.

[B]

All right, I think we've spoken enough.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. We will be back next week.

[B]

I believe we were doing a Sex and the City rewatch episode. And I believe last Sex and the City rewatch episode, we discussed how we

[A]

haven't done the Atlantic City.

[B]

Yeah, we're doing Luck Be an Old Lady.

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

So tune in for that.

[A]

Bye, guys. Bye.

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