279: On Tyra Banks, Disclosure Day, Men’s Fashion Week

Summary

Every Outfit - Episode 279: On Tyra Banks, Disclosure Day, Men’s Fashion Week (June 26, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni celebrate the 10-year anniversary of the Every Outfit Instagram account, reflecting on their unexpected journey from “deeply unhealthy, lifelong obsession with fashion and popular culture” to podcasting success. The episode then careens into sharp, witty analysis of timely fashion and pop culture news: Tyra Banks’ lawsuit over a Netflix documentary, Sarah Jessica Parker’s alleged self-plagiarism scandal, Spielberg’s cryptic new film “Disclosure Day,” and the latest happenings from Men’s Fashion Week. Candid, bitchy, and always fashion-forward, this episode is a spread of incisive hot takes, nostalgic asides, and memorable quotables.

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Celebrating 10 Years of Every Outfit

[01:49–04:28]

• The hosts mark a full decade since launching Every Outfit on Sex and the City.
• Both recall humble, low moments that led to starting the account “as a joke over flaming margaritas” (Lauren).
• Quote [03:50, Chelsea]: “It’s been the biggest gift. If you were to ask, like, 12-year-old me, what’s your dream job? It would be like working on Sex in the City, but if you can’t do that, this is the next best thing.”
• Lauren shares how the account unexpectedly led her to her husband and current work-life.
• Both express genuine gratitude for their audience—despite their famously monotone, dry delivery.

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Sarah Jessica Parker’s Commencement Speech “Scandal” (Self-Plagiarism)

[04:37–12:34]

• The duo break down the recent flap: SJP’s Northwestern commencement speech was cribbed, in part, from her prior Harvard Law address.
• Local journalist Hope Perry’s investigation found more than half the speech overlapped.
• Chelsea and Lauren play layered clips from both speeches to highlight the near-identical passages, yet note that SJP’s delivery differs (“That’s a theater actress for you”—Lauren).
• Quote [10:24, Lauren]: “To plagiarize that part about doing it your own way, but doing it the same over two commencement speeches is just wonderfully ironic and funny.”
• Consensus: It’s an academic faux-pas but not a real scandal; stars routinely recycle speeches, and SJP was too busy to rewrite—“She doesn’t even know how to get to ChatGPT” (Lauren).

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Tyra Banks vs. Netflix: Lawsuit Drama

[13:59–21:28]

• Tyra Banks is suing Netflix for defamation over “Reality Check: Inside America’s Next Top Model.”
• Her claim: Only 16 minutes of her interview was used, omitting footage that would add context, especially regarding the Shandy Sullivan segment about sexual assault.
• Lauren and Chelsea note the irony: Tyra crafted narratives from hours of contestant footage, now objects to it herself.
• Quote [15:05, Chelsea]: “She can dish it out, but she can’t take it.”
• Also covered: Tyra’s alleged lack of awareness about online criticism, being out of touch with the show’s modern cultural reappraisal, and the unlikelihood the suit will reach trial (“This might be the campiest celebrity trial in a while since the Gwyneth Paltrow skiing trial”—Lauren).
• The hosts note Ms. J and J. Manuel own their part in the show’s “mass psychosis,” whereas Tyra seems unprepared and defensive.

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Cate Blanchett at Oxford & The Death Doula Boom

[24:04–28:27]

• Cate Blanchett is named a visiting professor at Oxford—a real-world nod to her role in “Tár.”
• Lauren pitches Blanchett doing her famous “Tár” speech on day one: “And that’s the power of acting.”
• Discussion turns tongue-in-cheek as they contemplate the surprising trend of celebrities (Nicole Kidman, Chloe Zhao) becoming “death doulas.”
• Quote [27:19, Lauren]: “I want [Angelina Jolie] to be my death doula… Although, unless something horrible and terminal happens to me, I don’t think there’s a way that Angelina Jolie could be my death doula.”

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Olivia Rodrigo’s Daisy Chain Fields – Lilith Fair 2.0

[28:51–34:27]

• Olivia Rodrigo launches “Daisy Chain Fields,” a music festival headlined by iconic women: The Breeders, Garbage, Stevie Nicks, Sarah McLachlan, et al.
• The event quickly sells out—much to the hosts’ chagrin.
• Proceeds benefit women’s health and reproductive rights orgs.
• Quote [30:56, Lauren]: “We don’t really have benefit concerts anymore. We maxed out on those in Covid. Instead, we just got Zooms where celebrities sang John Lennon’s ‘Imagine.’”
• Lauren and Chelsea predict the festival's potential legacy, drawing parallels to Lilith Fair, and revel in the idea of unexpected artist collabs.
• Noted: Olivia Rodrigo is a student of Lilith Fair history, having appeared in a documentary about it.

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Madonna’s Interview Magazine Cover & Candid Interview

[34:44–47:29]

• Madonna’s new cover/interview in Interview Magazine elicits nostalgia and awe.
• Lauren admits the editorial’s styling is closer to Pamela Anderson than Madonna.
• The interview, conducted by Mel Ottenberg, is praised for its genuine, informed dialogue—rare in modern celebrity journalism.
• Madonna’s condemnation of Instagram as “evil” has Lauren rethinking her own social media habits.
• Quote [38:23, Madonna via Lauren]: “‘Why am I giving this non-existent entity power over my soul, my brain, my vision of myself, my vision of the world?' Time is precious. ... We think if we look at Instagram for two hours we’ve actually been with someone. It’s a deeply disturbing activity.’”
• New details: Universal holding Madonna’s self-written biopic script “hostage,” leading to the project's collapse; Madonna’s continued studies in Kabbalah, no cartilage left in her knees, her exercise pivot to Peloton, and an evolving relationship with daughter Lourdes through music.

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Film Review: Steven Spielberg’s “Disclosure Day”

[47:34–67:38]

• Chelsea and Lauren deliver a sprawling, hilarious critique of “Disclosure Day,” Spielberg’s latest “alien” film.
• [Key Segment: 48:00–67:38]
• Major complaint: The film’s premise is built on an outdated assumption that public disclosure of alien life would be world-shaking, yet “most people kind of already believe.”
• The “Disclosure Day” event that’s promised in previews occurs only in the final minutes.
• Cast (Emily Blunt, Josh O’Connor, Colin Firth) is discussed; Emily Blunt’s performance especially lauded and deemed “Oscar-worthy” (Chelsea [63:12]).
• Numerous plot holes, muddled character motivations, and thin “science vs. faith” arguments are lampooned.
• Lauren: “It doesn’t say anything, it doesn’t explain anything, and it is built on a faulty premise.”
• Quote [51:09, Lauren]: “Spielberg directs the shit out of this. Janusz Kaminski, director of photography, also shooting the shit out of this. John Williams score that hits. ... But the story, just… what if everyone learned there were aliens? That’s it.”
• Both agree: Go rewatch “Contact” or “Independence Day” instead.
• Shout-out to Courtney Grace, the real-life news anchor who went viral after a standout cameo.

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Fashion News Roundup

Isaac Mizrahi Returns to Target

[68:05–71:29]

• Mizrahi named “creative director at large” for Target—evoking Andre Leon Talley’s “editor at large” title.
• Details: He’ll advise, mentor, and shape Target’s design language but not personally design.
• Nostalgic look-back on his original Target collab, which was “truly groundbreaking” but overshadowed by later H&M x Karl Lagerfeld drops.

House Shake-Ups: Moschino & Paco Rabanne

[71:56–79:11]

• Adrian Appiolaza departs Moschino after two years; brand’s parent company faces financial hardship.
• Both hosts lament Moschino’s rocky fate, wish for a revival, and float dream options for new designers.
• Julian Dossena leaves Paco Rabanne (“Rabanne” in new branding).
• Lauren: “Bring Paco back to the Rabanne!” Both agree the brand needs a fresh visionary, akin to the successful Couregès revival.

Men’s Fashion Week Highlights

[79:17–89:21]

• Simone Rocha’s debut full menswear show receives praise—“wearable for men who identify as Carries.” Inspiration cited as “Edwardian twink,” looks described as feminized, androgynous with cheeky apron-boas.
• Prada’s “American Apparel colored skinny jeans” (Chelsea) mark the return of skinny silhouettes.
• Dior’s sheer suits and Jonathan Anderson’s “Dior Man” are dissected; both recognized for artistry and market savvy.
• Saint Laurent’s sleek masculine tailoring and “translucent loafers” get a nod, though Lauren finds certain looks reminiscent of Frankie Shop—a point Chelsea disputes.
• Consensus: This Men’s Fashion Week was marked by play with femininity—boas, florals, and 70s knitwear.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• [10:24, Lauren]: “To plagiarize that part about doing it your own way, but doing it the same over two commencement speeches is just wonderfully ironic and funny.”
• [15:05, Chelsea]: “She can dish it out, but she can’t take it.”
• [38:23, Madonna via Lauren]: “Why am I giving this non-existent entity power over my soul, my brain, my vision of myself, my vision of the world?”
• [51:09, Lauren]: “Spielberg directs the shit out of this. ... But the story doesn’t explain anything and it is built on a faulty premise.”
• [63:12, Chelsea]: “Emily Blunt’s performance was incredible… Oscar-worthy.”
• [86:32, Lauren]: “Jonathan Anderson was discussing his idea for the Dior man... a fantasy character... the men’s boarding school Eton, which I found very interesting.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 10 Yr. Every Outfit Anniversary: 01:49–04:28
• Sarah Jessica Parker speech plagiarism: 04:37–12:34
• Tyra Banks lawsuit: 13:59–21:28
• Cate Blanchett at Oxford/death doulas: 24:04–28:27
• Olivia Rodrigo’s Daisy Chain Fields: 28:51–34:27
• Madonna Interview Magazine: 34:44–47:29
• Disclosure Day film review: 47:34–67:38
• Isaac Mizrahi/Target: 68:05–71:29
• Designer shake-ups (Moschino, Paco Rabanne): 71:56–79:11
• Men’s Fashion Week: 79:17–89:21

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Final Thoughts

Episode 279 is classic Every Outfit: bitingly funny, intellectually sharp fashion culture coverage, and brimming with pop culture reverence and irreverence. Chelsea and Lauren’s friendship and collaborative energy shine as they roast, dissect, kvetch, and celebrate the strange, campy world of style and stardom.

Hotline for Next Week: 323-486-6773
“See you next week, guys. Bye.”

Transcript

[Lauren Garoni]

When I got a new car, I thought my insurance premium would increase and empty my bank account. Like if fatween won the lottery.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I've invested most of my winnings in chicken tenders because they're bomb. But bro, I bought a house and it's sick, bro. I'm thinking the floor is going to be all trampoline, bro. With a helipad on the roof. The contractor said it's structurally unsound. They're just being babies.

[Lauren Garoni]

But switching to GEICO saved me hundreds, so my bank account is safe. It feels good to save some hard earned cash.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It feels good to geico. How did you get your website to look like that? Mine's so basic.

[Lauren Garoni]

Thanks.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just used Wix Harmony. Sounds fancy.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

What's that?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's wix's AI website builder. You can just tell it what you want and it builds you a whole site. So it's like vibe coding a website? Exactly, but even better because you can

[Lauren Garoni]

still click and edit anything by hand.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You don't have to use prompts for everything. Oh, that's neat. Yeah, try it for [e-mail] Harmony.

[Lauren Garoni]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great gowns, beautiful gowns. Fashion has changed.

[Lauren Garoni]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garoni.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garoni]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast. Chelsea, you seem raring to go.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I am. I just got off a plane. I was upstate visiting my parents and I'm happy to be back in sunny Los Angeles.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's dedication, guys. She went straight from an airplane to recording this podcast. There might have been a Jones on third break in between those two things.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Absolutely. We have a lot to talk about this week, but first and foremost, it is our 10 year anniversary.

[Lauren Garoni]

And you were out of town. Yes. It's been 10 years since we started the Instagram. Every Outfit on Sex and the City. Maybe the longest joke that has turned into a job.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. I can't believe we've been Sex and the City parasites for this long.

[Lauren Garoni]

I just can't believe. Truly, every year since we had the Instagram account, we were like, well, surely this can't go on for another year. And yet somehow it has.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And here we are.

[Lauren Garoni]

I did text you because I did forget that it was the 10 year anniversary of starting Every Outfit on Sex and the City.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's okay. Only one of us needs to remember,

[Lauren Garoni]

and that's how you keep a relationship going. But I did text you and I was like, it is crazy that this thing that we created as a joke over flaming margaritas, shout out to el compadre at maybe I won't speak for you. I'll speak for myself. Like the lowest point in my life or one of the lower moments in my life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, it was definitely the lowest point in my life. But you know that.

[Lauren Garoni]

I didn't know how you wanted to couch it, but yeah, we were both in not great places. My celebrity boss had unceremoniously left the city to move across the country and left me with her dog. So I was jobless.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Jobless with some busted Pomeranian, which is really what happens to every celebrity assistant.

[Lauren Garoni]

That is true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was definitely in my menti b era. And, you know, after we started the Instagram account, I did move to LA and really start from scratch. Professionally, romantically.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know. And this account gave me my husband. And now we have a child and I get to work with you, one of my best friends, every day. Like, this silly joke made all of my dreams come true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, it's been the biggest gift. If you were to ask, like 12 year old me, what's your dream job? It would be like working on Sex in the City, but if you can't do that, this is the next best thing.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, being sarcastic about fashion and pop culture and being paid to watch Sex in the City. You're right. If you ask high school me, like, what is the dream? It would be that a job that didn't exist when we were teenagers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, I hope that felt genuine. I know with our monotone voices, anytime we're a little bit saccharine or try to be genuine, it can come off as sarcastic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, I for one, am being genuine for once in my miserable life. We're so lucky. And we're so grateful to all of you, of course.

[Lauren Garoni]

And to show how much reverence we have for Sex and the City and everything that it has given us, we're going to talk about how Sarah Jessica Parker allegedly plagiarized her own speech.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, this is a very niche Sex in the City story, but, oh, it

[Lauren Garoni]

is us who Weekly and a woman named Hope Perry of the Evanston Roundtable are the only three people talking about this. And we wouldn't even be talking about this if one Hope Perry didn't write about this in, I think, her college paper.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The Evanston Roundtable isn't a college newspaper, but it is a local newspaper in the region where Northwestern University is. So to back things up, Sarah Jessica Parker recently delivered a commencement speech for the graduates of Northwestern.

[Lauren Garoni]

How lucky are they?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Very lucky.

[Lauren Garoni]

She was also given, or awarded, as they say, an honorary doctorate degree.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But shortly thereafter, Hope Perry, a journalist from the Evanston Roundtable, called her out for plagiarizing portions of her speech from a speech that she herself gave at Harvard law School in 2016.

[Lauren Garoni]

So hope Perry and her piece in the Evanston Roundtable, which I just want to apologize. Sorry. For calling it a college paper. No disrespect to local news, as we'll talk about later when we talk about disclosure day. Local news, the most important thing we have in this world. But Hope Perry said that in a speech that was about 2,700 words. About 1500 of those words were either multi word phrases or identical or extremely similar statements from her 2016 Harvard address.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Work smarter, not harder.

[Lauren Garoni]

So I went back and I actually watched both speeches. The Northwestern speech was broadcast on C Span. I don't think Sarah Jessica Parker knew that. And the Harvard speech has been live on YouTube for the last 10 years since she delivered it. And Hope Perry isn't wrong. There are several passages that are virtually identical between these two speeches, but in Sarah Jessica Parker's defense, they're anecdotes from her own life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure, but it's the same speech. She did it twice, which is a normal thing to do if you are a celebrity on a press tour or on some sort of like, speaking circuit. But I think in the world of academia, it's like, frowned upon to plagiarize even yourself, you know.

[Lauren Garoni]

So for those who didn't have the extra hour in your week to watch both of the commencement speeches, again, in her defense, these speeches are like 20, 30 minutes long. They're not word for word. It's because the Harvard address was to the law school. So it wasn't like she took the stuff she said about the law school and just said it to the Northwestern audience. She made a little joke about how she was in some legal drama in the early 90s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, she kind of did do that, though. I'm of the belief that, like, she did the same speech, but I don't have a problem with the fact that she did the same speech. But can we play a clip just so our listeners have some more context?

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. So there are a couple of parts that are word for word, bar for bar, the same. I will say her cadence is different. So that's an actress for you. That's a theater actress. She's like, I'm gonna do this again, but I'm gonna make the performance different anyway. Here's one such part of her speech.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

And I also know advice is sort of like experiences boring cousin that no one really wanted to invite. No one really wanted to. And arrives at the party, arrives early and hangs around the kitchen, criticizes around the kitchen, criticizing the food. But if you'll indulge me, I do said I do have things I've learned as an actor. Things that I've learned as an actor, a business person, a citizen person. And as someone citizen who has had the experience. Extraordinary good to pursue the things that I love. That I love.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I love that you layered them over each other. I was expecting back to back.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, I layered them over each other for effect. And as I said, the words are basically the same, but her performance is different. And I think we need to give her credit for that. That's the one thing that Hope Perry couldn't do in her piece. She compared the same passages, but when you hear them, you know, they do sound different, even if she's saying the same words.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, I think that it is valid to criticize someone for plagiarizing their own speech just because, like, if you go to Northwestern, you're not allowed to plagiarize your own shit. Like, you can't turn in the same paper twice.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's right. I mean, this feels like a very Sarah Jessica Parker type of scandal to get into, where I just don't think she thought that people would be able to see both speeches online.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Lauren Garoni]

Can I play the other part that is identical?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

And I can share with you that there have been many attempts from many outside world to change. From the outside world to change my approach, my choices, my choices. For the most part, I have resisted, much to the chagrin often of those who believe they had my best interest at heart. I am not going to suggest that I was evolved enough to see the error in doing so.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not resisting.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

But. But there was a voice that said that said, don't. Don't be gracious. Listen, listen. Appreciate the care and advice. But there are times, Sarah Jessica Jessica, to keep your own counsel. As we say in acting, take the note. Take the note, but do it your own way.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay. This part is particularly hilarious because she's

[Chelsea Fairless]

saying, there are times, Sarah Jessica, where

[Lauren Garoni]

you have to take the note, but do it your own way. To plagiarize that part about doing it your own way, but doing it the same over two commencement speeches is just wonderfully ironic and funny.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, that's incredible. Yeah. It's tricky because it's not as if she plagiarized Oprah's Harvard commencement speech or something.

[Lauren Garoni]

But wouldn't that be amazing if she had?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It would, and it does. You know, as her publicist said, who was quoted in this article, it does make sense that she would have the same advice for graduates of Harvard versus graduates of Northwestern. Of course, like what? What are you going to say to these kids?

[Lauren Garoni]

You know, and I will say, having listened to both speeches, it's not word for word the same. Because when she during that first clip where she's talking about how advice is like a dinner guest that never leaves, in the first speech she refers to her 13 year old son who rolls his eyes, and then the Northwestern speech she refers to him as a newly graduated college student. See, there were some changes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love that you watch both of them in full.

[Lauren Garoni]

What kind of podcaster would I be if I didn't look, we're doing the work.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The speeches are definitely mostly the same, but we don't care because we believe

[Lauren Garoni]

in a working smarter, not harder.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We also believe that it's more work to plagiarize yourself than it is to just get ChatGPT to write this speech, which she could have very easily done. She could have easily just fed chat the original speech and been like very the language. She didn't even do that.

[Lauren Garoni]

She doesn't even know how to get to ChatGPT. Also, she was a. What was it, a Booker Prize judge. Yeah, this woman was too busy to write a whole new speech. She was reading like 78 books.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Honestly, I want her to be doing other things with her time.

[Lauren Garoni]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, so Tyra Banks is suing Netflix for defamation over the documentary that we discussed, I think a few months ago, which was called Reality Check Inside America's Next Top Model. The lawsuit alleges that Netflix used just 16 minutes from her over three hour interview to quote, unquote support a false and defamatory narrative.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay. It is well within her right to sue Netflix. It is America. We are a litigious country. I love that her lawyer is insisting on a trial for this when the outcome is likely going to be that Netflix settles and she gets some money.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right?

[Lauren Garoni]

But the fact that their basis of this lawsuit is like, how dare you only use 16 minutes of this 3 hour interview you conducted with Tyra Banks about the reality show that she created that took minutes out of hours of footage to construct its own narrative. Like, girl, you did that on your reality show and now you're mad that that was done to you in a documentary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know she can dish it out, but she can't take it.

[Lauren Garoni]

My other favorite thing is she's essentially upset. And the lawsuit alleges that she was not shown footage that would have given context. And had she had that context, she would have given different answers, which is a crazy thing to say. Most specifically about the contestant who said she was sexually assaulted during the run of the show, which was the most explosive part of the documentary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. She's claiming that she was unaware that Shandy Sullivan classified what happened to her as sexual assault. Personally, I don't think we can blame Tyra exclusively for the horrible treatment of Shandy. Like that is a prime example of rape culture and also the bystander effect. Like it truly takes a village for something like that to happen the way that it did.

[Lauren Garoni]

For sure. But the specificity that they get into in this lawsuit about that sequence, they Go. The implication is devastating and deliberate that Tyra Banks cannot even remember the story of the woman who was assaulted on her show. But that was false. The full footage of Ms. Banks interview reveals two things that the produce cut out and did not show viewers. In episode one, before the upward glance, Ms. Banks nods affirmatively, unmistakably, and immediately says, I do remember her story. By carving the nod out of the middle of the sequence and cutting off Ms. Banks comment at the end, the producers ensured that the viewers would see only the lie and not the truth. You didn't have to participate in this documentary, you know who didn't participate in this documentary? Do you know the other person who created America's Next Top Model? Kenya Barris, who went on to create the show Blackish?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. She could have very easily opted out. And she made the mistake that a lot of contestants on America's Next Top Model made, which was a blind trust in the production to portray her story in a positive light.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, I guess that's the thing that I find the funniest about this lawsuit. Just the irony that she is upset about her treatment in the documentary when that's exactly the treatment that these contestants got on the show that she created.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I can't imagine not having that level of awareness. Like, if some celebrity that we talked about on this podcast came out and was like, the every outfit podcast is horrible. These bitches are crazy. I would be like, okay, fair. Like, I deserved that, you know? Or maybe not. I deserve that, but I certainly wouldn't fight it.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, in your hypothetical, said celebrity isn't suing us for mental anguish and defamation and wanting a trial for what we said on our podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garoni]

Which, again, I maintain. I think her and her lawyers know what they're doing by bringing this lawsuit to Netflix. I read about this article in People magazine. It got a lot of coverage. I think they will settle and that'll be the end of it. But the other big part of the lawsuit seems to be that she's very upset about all the stuff about her ignoring Ms. J after her stroke. Because there's a part of the lawsuit where it's like, the documentary didn't even mention the fact that Tyra's been in Australia the last two years.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's like, okay, but also like, Ms. J clearly doesn't really fuck with you. You know what I mean? Read the room.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. And also, Ms. J in interviews after the documentary was like, tyra still hasn't reach out to me. Nothing about that in the lawsuit. There's nothing about how she iced out J. Manuel. Or the insensitive and increasingly insane photo shoot themes like that. She's like, all right, you got me on that one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's too bad, because I wish she could talk about all that in a candid way because there is a mass psychosis element of it. It's not as if it was solely Tyra's creative, you know, Absolutely not. Everyone just kind of fell in line because that was the time. And that sort of concept for a photo shoot would have been acceptable then.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. But Ms. J was featured. J. Manuel was featured. Nigel Barker was featured. And they all own up to, like, that was fucked up. It was the time. That's not an excuse. Like, there were other people presented in the documentary who didn't come off unscathed, but understood what they would have to answer for in the documentary and came prepared.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. It was the lack of preparation on Tyra's part that was crazy to witness

[Lauren Garoni]

as a viewer because that was a big part of, what, the third episode where the director of the documentary, Moore Lauschy, decided to get into the resurgence of America's Next Top Model during the pandemic and people reexamining the show and how messed up it was. So for Tyra to show up to the documentary that unprepared means one of two things to me. Which is one, she doesn't care, or that commentary just never got to her, which seems insane. Yeah, both seem hard to believe. Perhaps it's a mixture of the two.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Like, if I was her, I would be, like, rehearsing my answers, especially to the questions about Shandy with my publicist. Like, it was, you know, the most important thing I've ever done. But, yeah, I guess she didn't know or wasn't scared of being canceled, which seems weird.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, so Tyra is suing for damages, including loss of future business opportunities, loss of business income, and other compounding losses, as will be shown at trial. Again, they're very into getting this to trial, which could take years. But do you think that she's going to allege if this does make it to trial, that her hot ice cream business has lost income because of this dying documentary?

[Chelsea Fairless]

1000%.

[Lauren Garoni]

I am trying to recoup the money I've lost for. Is it called Smiles Smize Cream?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They have a store in Sydney that was open the last time that I went there. I just wasn't aware that they had, like, a brick and mortar location.

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't think it's gonna go to trial, but I kind of hope it does. This might be the campiest celebrity trial

[Chelsea Fairless]

in a while since the Gwyneth Paltrow skiing trial. Anyway.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ooh, and then we could have an Off Broadway musical about the Tyra Netflix trial. You know, think of what this could do for pop culture.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly. I am so excited to share that this podcast is sponsored by the RealReal, the world's largest and most trusted source for authenticated luxury resale. I sold some stuff on the RealReal recently. Now I have 200 that I could spend on clothes without guilt. And I'm debating between a classic Armani suit and a Timmy woods bag that's shaped like a pelican.

[Lauren Garoni]

I vote for the suit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Don't hate Lauren. Timmy woods is a great Real Real Search this is the designer that made Cari's Eiffel Tower shaped bag. You know, the one that Big's Ashes

[Lauren Garoni]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

That bag was actually just on the Real Real and it sold for $285, which I think is a steal personally, but tragically I did not find it in time. But I love how when you search for a designer you can see like what else is sold and much it gives you good intel about pricing. Anyway, have you bought anything recently?

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garoni]

It's so hard not to Overlay the plot of Tar.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we know she's gonna kill it at this job because of how good she was in that one part of Tar, which was kind of the best scene in the movie.

[Lauren Garoni]

The beginning where she strips down her students who's trying to be too woke.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lauren Garoni]

See, if I'm Cate Blanchett, I show up to the first day of class and I do that speech and you're like, and that was a scene from Tar. And that's the power of acting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That would be great.

[Lauren Garoni]

Blanchett had to say about her new appointment. The visiting professorship is an electrifying opportunity for me to be in direct, robust, creative dialogue with the next generation of thinkers and creative doers. I also noticed in this article that she will not only be presenting lectures to the theater school, but she will also be engaging with, quote, students and the wider university community. Could you imagine going to the Food hall and just looking over and Cape Blanchet is there?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm really jealous of everyone that's going to go to these lectures.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, there's still time. It's only June Chelsea. We could apply for Oxford.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, God, yeah. I'm sure we have a great chance of getting in.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you think maybe we could travel to Oxford and like, audit a class?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, I just hope that when she does these classes, she's wearing a turtleneck under a button down shirt. Also, this isn't just a random thing that she's doing. Like, in previous years, Stephen Sondheim, Sir Ian McKellen, Arthur Miller have all held this role at Oxford.

[Lauren Garoni]

I do think it's very cool if you are a successful actor to give back and be a teacher. But also Cate Blanchett, I think, has done this in Australia as well. She's obviously very into theater. Her husband is a theater director. I think she has gone back into schools and done this kind of mentorship before.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I hope it's like that part in May December when Natalie Portman, like, goes to the school.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, I hope someone's making a documentary about this, the very least. Also, Cate Blanchett, she's not exactly getting into a second career, but reading this story reminded me. We never discussed how Nicole Kidman a few months ago just dropped that. She was like, oh, I'm training to be a death Dolip, by the way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But literally everyone is like, every time I'm just like, on Instagram, I see someone like, oh, what are they up to? I go to their profile. It's like Death Doula.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know, it used to be just being A regular doula. Like, I feel like a lot of my friends, that was their kind of second career.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Was getting certified to be a doula, and then that didn't become enough. Now you got to be a death doula.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I would like to know what percentage of the population are now identifying as death doulas. At the very least, we know it's Chloe Zhao, Nicole Kidman. Who else is a death doula?

[Lauren Garoni]

You know who I could see becoming a death doula? Angelina Jolie, who, if you remember, prior to wanting to be an actress, studied to be a mortician.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sure she already is one. We just don't know that's what she's

[Lauren Garoni]

been doing with her time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You're right. She's such a death doula.

[Lauren Garoni]

I want her to be my death doula. Although, unless something horrible and terminal happens to me, I don't think there's a way that Angelina Jolie could be my death doula.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I read some, like, tabloid rumor that once her kids are all old enough to have moved out, she's going to move back to Cambodia. And I would venture to guess that she's going to be a death doula there.

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't think that's so much of a tabloid report. I don't know about Cambodia, but she has been very on record that because of her divorce with Brad Pitt, although she won't directly say that, but that's the implication that until her kids are 18, she essentially has to be in Los Angeles because of custody reasons, because

[Chelsea Fairless]

she has to take them to the DMV so they can all legally change their names the second they turn 18.

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't know if you saw this, but she did put her house up for sale. So I think the last of the children, Vivian and Knox, are finally 18.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It feels like just yesterday that I saw her and Vivian shopping for groceries at that Gelson's.

[Lauren Garoni]

And you'll never see them again. You know who I think would be a good death doula? Olivia Rodrigo. Once she grows out of being a pop star, I can definitely see her getting certified as a death doula.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. I think that lots of performers at Olivia Rodrigo's new music festival could be death doulas. Like, I could also see that happening for Kathleen, Hannah and Chapel Roan, Karen.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, Sarah McLaughlin, Stevie Nicks. Stevie Nicks is like the platinum death doula. Like, she takes four cases a year, and she's very expensive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So to kick things back a little, Olivia Rodrigo announced that she has created a music festival called Daisy Chain Fields.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. In our outline, we just have it as Olivia Rodrigo launches her own Lilith Fair. Because that's clearly what this is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Lauren Garoni]

And when I sent the news story to Chelsea, I said, I know where we'll be August 29th, because it's happening in Irvine on August 29th.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, unfortunately, I don't think we will be there because the tickets already went on sale and they're now sold out.

[Lauren Garoni]

God damn it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know, like, when I signed up for the pre sale, I didn't think that that would be happening like, a mere hours after the announcement. I mean, we'll see what the prices are, like, closer to the day, but, like, I don't know how big this thing is supposed to be. It has a very great lineup though. The bill includes Dochi Chapel, Roan, the Breeders, Bikini Kill, Garbage, Stevie Nicks, Karen O, Sarah McLaughlin, Cat's Eye, many others.

[Lauren Garoni]

It doesn't say that Olivia Rodrigo is performing, but how could she not?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's weird that she's not on the bill. Also, this is totally a charity thing. All of the proceeds are going to various women's organizations.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes, in the Variety article I read, they shouted out. Some of the organizations the festival is partnering with include Baby Da Baby, Black Mamas Matter, alliance center for Reproductive Rights, National Institute for Reproductive Health, Planned Parenthood, and I guess our hard earned money won't be going to supporting these charities because the concert's already sold out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it'll go to support the scalpers who will give us these tickets, I guess.

[Lauren Garoni]

But I mean, if this is a success, it could be like Lilith Fair and she can do it for exactly three years and. Stop. That was a reference to the fair documentary that we watched. Right? They only did Lilith Fair for three or four years.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They did it for three years and then they brought it back like, years after. But it, like, didn't work. Wasn't the same vibe. So they technically did it four times, but three times when it counted.

[Lauren Garoni]

But hopefully this is the beginning of an ongoing yearly benefit concert. We don't really have benefit concerts anymore.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We maxed out on those in Covid.

[Lauren Garoni]

Sorry, you're just reminding me. I mean, instead of benefit concerts, we just got zooms where celebrities sang John Lennon's Imagine and did readings of what was it? Fast Times at Ridgemont High. That's for real. Brad Pitt participated in that as well as a drunk and or High Shia LaBeouf.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Anyway, it's cool that she's doing this. I do want to go, although I'm scared because it's taking place in a park in Orange County. It's not like it's in a stadium or something like Lilith Fair was, I

[Lauren Garoni]

think quite like many of the Trader Joe's and Erawan's. They under built this festival not realizing how popular it would be.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is extremely impressive that she got Stevie Nicks though because Lilith Fair was never able to achieve that. You know

[Lauren Garoni]

Our next sponsor is Smalls. They make fresh human grade food for cats. It's made from the same stuff you or I would eat, but formulated specifically to help cats thrive. Do Chelsea or I have a cat? No. But some of the nearest and dearest people in our lives do and they will not shut up about what their cats will and will not eat. This is my third ad for Smalls and with each ad I convert a new person in my life to use the brand. This time it's my mother who has several outdoor cats that she has taken care of for more than a decade. She caters three meals a day for these cats and is always on the hunt for the best food for them. So I of course told her about our new sponsor Smalls. I also made her aware that most cat foods out there use meat byproducts and are cut with cheap grains, fillers and artificial ingredients. But Smalls is different. Their fresh recipes are over 80% animal protein and they never use fillers or artificial ingredients. A balanced diet leads to less shedding, fewer hairballs and a more silky shine. And their food is so healthy that 88% of cat parents say that after feeding Smalls they notice that their cat has better digestion. So less junk comes out the other end. You heard me correctly, that means less sticky poop. This was especially interesting to my mother because despite saying that these are her outdoor cats, they do come inside. So much so that she has several litter boxes. So stop serving your little carnivore Ebola process shortcuts for a limited time because you are an every outfit listener. Get 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com outfit one last time. That's 60% off your first order plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com/outfit. Do you want to tell the fuckettes the haul that you had sent to my house including an Olivia Rodrigo vinyl?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I told you about this on the last episode. I got one Olivia Rodrigo record sent here, the Chloe Wise picture disc which I had to buy.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's quite attractive looking. It's gonna look great in your bookcase. It's fabulous, which is where I imagine it's going. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I got a couple of random faces from Etsy, as I've been known to do. But to bring it back to Lilith Fair, I know that we discussed that documentary on this podcast. I think Olivia Rodrigo was in that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So she's a scholar of Lilith Fair. And I think that. Or I anticipate that this concert will feature a lot of collaborations between artists that we wouldn't imagine would sing together, which was like, the whole point of Lilith Fair.

[Lauren Garoni]

Did we say the garbage is also playing?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I haven't seen them in years, since I was, like, a teenager seeing them at the Warfield in San Francisco.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I look forward to Shirley Manson, Olivia Rodrigo, and Sarah McLachlan and Stevie Nick singing Landslide or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay.

[Lauren Garoni]

I can't believe it's taken us this long. Honestly. Our restraint should be studied that we have yet to speak about Madonna on the COVID of Interview magazine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Madonna continues to kill it.

[Lauren Garoni]

But can I be vulnerable for a second?

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

The first photos I saw from this editorial, which was shot by Nadia Lee Cohen, were the photos of her shot from below in the, like, white suit where you can see her garters. And she's got kind of geek chic glasses. I did think it was Pamela Anderson at first.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she does look like Pamela Anderson in a lot of those photos.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, thank you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm with you.

[Lauren Garoni]

As a Madonna fan, I was disgusted with myself forever thinking that that was Pamela Anderson. But I'm glad you also agree.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's. The hair was so similar to Pam.

[Lauren Garoni]

The hair, also the makeup and the way in certain shots, Nadia Lee Cohen shot Madonna. She doesn't look like herself.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's not like they were trying to make her look like a pop star, which I appreciate because usually that's what happens when we get photo shoots of famous pop stars. This felt more like a throwback to her actress era.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, as we learned in the article, the interview was conducted by Mel Ottenberg. She did create a character who she

[Chelsea Fairless]

called Dee Dee, who's some, like, crazy older Italian woman.

[Lauren Garoni]

But not Madonna.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Not Madonna. Why does she have a harpoon? We don't know. Why are there naked men lying on the floor of her living room?

[Lauren Garoni]

Who knows and she'll never tell us. So, as I said, Mel Ottenberg, friend of the show, conducted this interview and styled the shoot. One of the best celebrity profile celebrity interviews in recent history. Just because I think we're in such a weird time of celebrity journalism where it's either journalists who, like, aren't familiar with their subjects, it feels like, or there's such a need to have a viral moment that instead of like just sitting down with someone and having a conversation that you're a fan of or whose work you respect, it's like, I mean, we'll get into disclosure day in a second, but most of the press I saw was just clips of asking Steven Spielberg, like, is ET Wet or dry?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which, to be fair, is a question I have always had myself. I think he's wet and I think it's gross. And that's why I don't like ET

[Lauren Garoni]

but anyway, I believe his answer was yes. Slightly slimy, but Mel is such a Stan. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of Madonna and they're just queening out together.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's also rare to find a celebrity like Madonna that like, truly does not give a shit about sort of self censoring in the way that most celebrities do when they give interviews. Now, she's always been very to the point, very funny, very brash with journalists, very. I don't want to say defensive. That's the wrong word. But people have asked her so many horrible questions over the years. She always stands up for herself, you know, deals it back to them. So I think this interview was good because it was a real conversation.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's also been so long since I've experienced a Madonna that sort of says something where I'm like, like it makes me change my own behavior. Like her whole commentary about Instagram and how she thinks it's evil and she doesn't, she's just not on it. I was like, oh, okay, I need to get off my phone. Like, if Madonna's not on Instagram, I need to not be on Instagram.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we all know that we shouldn't be on Instagram, yet we are.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know, but you know, as she says, why am I giving this non existent entity power over my soul, my brain, my vision of myself, my vision of the world? Time is precious. And that's something I've known all my life. What can I get done? What can I do? Because we think if we look at Instagram for two hours we've actually been with someone, It's a deeply disturbing activity. I'm like, oh, I felt that, yeah,

[Chelsea Fairless]

we should all be disturbed by the way we use our phones now.

[Lauren Garoni]

So the other thing that came out of this article that got picked up a lot is the reason that the Madonna biopic with Julia Garner did Not move forward. And basically it was too expensive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. She wanted. We don't know what budget she wanted, but more than they were willing to give.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, the movie was set up with Universal. And I was like, didn't Universal make the Michael film? I guess they only had the international rights and it was Lionsgate that made the Michael film. But I'm like, what was she asking for? A hundred million dollars? Two hundred million dollars? Like you're going to make your money back.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I wonder.

[Lauren Garoni]

But Madonna, describing the hell that many people in the film industry have also experienced, she was like, in a bid to get this movie made, she went to Universal. I guess it was like, we could shoot this in Serbia and I can get the vision that I want this sort of this big life I've lived. And you can get the budget you want to give me. And Universal said, no, not just no, we don't believe that you would stay in Serbia for more than four days was their response to her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but call me crazy, but like, can we shoot Serbia so that it looks like 1980s New York? Like Tribeca in the 80s. Like, sorry, I'm not that familiar with Serbia.

[Lauren Garoni]

If I had to guess, they would shoot the interiors in Serbia and use Serbian crews and that would make it much cheaper and probably do a few weeks in New York.

[Chelsea Fairless]

How much did it cost to make Desperately Seeking Susan? I'm just curious.

[Lauren Garoni]

75 cents and some grit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, I get it. It's like there is no scaled down version of the Madonna movie because you will have to show her performing in front of huge crowds. Like it's kind of non negotiable.

[Lauren Garoni]

Sure. And also making to your point, authentically recreating 1980s New York can get expensive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Even just like the clothes alone.

[Lauren Garoni]

But the fact that because there was that rumor that she had set up the movie, the movie fell apart. And then she was setting it up as a series at Netflix. And I love that she gets into. In a way of explaining how she ended up making Confessions too, is she basically spent three years of her life trying to make her life into a movie and then a TV series and she couldn't find a showrunner that could adapt the series. And also Universal is evidently holding the Madonna biopic script that she wrote or helped to write hostage for an exorbitant amount of money, which I have to know how much that is that Madonna won't pony up that money. Yeah, it's got to be more than a million. Is it 5 million? Is it 10 million?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's just Upsetting that this is what it is. And I'm sure that Madonna is difficult to a degree. She obviously wants to portray herself in a certain way. She wants it to look expensive. She wants to make a good movie, which is a normal thing that the exec should respect. But it just sucks how, like, no one can ever do anything cool. You know, even Madonna, like, can't make a movie about Madonna.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, she was able to make this

[Chelsea Fairless]

album, and this photo shoot is really cool because it's, like, very different than all the imagery from the album. It's not often that a pop star will give, like, total creative control to, like, a gay man with taste and just, like, let them execute their vision. But I think this proves how valuable that can be to let go.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, that's been her philosophy her whole life, and it's led her to this moment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Chelsea, do you know the fastest, simplest way to upgrade your sleep? I'll give you a hint. It isn't sleep trackers or supplements or even blackout curtains.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is it Bedding from Bowl and Branch.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ding, ding, ding. Most people are sleeping poorly because of their old bedding. I know we were. That's why we upgraded our bedding to Boll and Branch's signature organic cotton sheets. They also have pillows, blankets, and comforters, all of which are designed to be breathable, incredibly soft, and gets better over time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Tat and I recently did a bedroom overhaul where we made our bedroom more hotel like with a white set of sheets and duvet from bowl and Branch. Very chic. The moment you lie down, you feel it. The bed just feels better.

[Lauren Garoni]

See, I sleep in a bed with a straight man who is constantly running hot. Chelsea, I haven't seen a top sheet in years. But with bowl and Branch, their fabrics are temperature regulating, which means you're not overheating or tossing and turning. So thank you, Bolan Branch, for making it possible to sleep with a full set of sheets.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Again, bowl and Branch are truly miracle workers. A lot of customers start with the sheets, but once they feel them, they upgrade the whole bed. That is what I did.

[Lauren Garoni]

From Signature sateen sheets, breathable pillows, beautifully crafted comforters, and cozy waffle bed blankets. Bolen Branch makes the entire bed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Do you have the waffle blanket?

[Lauren Garoni]

Of course. You gotta have the waffle blanket. Sleep cooler this summer with bowl and Branch during their annual summer event. For a limited time, get 20% off site wide at bowlandbranch.com outfit with code outfit. That's Bulanbranch. B O L L A N D. Branch.com outfit code outfit to take 20 off Boland Branc.com outfit code outfit exclusions apply. Are there other goodies? I wrote down other anecdotes that I appreciated from this interview. Well, one, she does admit that she's still studying Kabbalah, which I've wondered about. Madonna.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

And the fact that she has no cartilage in her knees because she's danced in high heels for so long. And also her yoga addiction in the late 90s to early 2000s led to her having no cartilage in her knees. And so now she's just exercising on a peloton bike. And then also she talked about this estrangement that she's had with her daughter, Lourdes, and they repaired their relationship by working on a song that's going to be on Confessions too.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she didn't say estranged. She said that Lourdes had suggested that they do a duet together as a way to repair their relationship.

[Lauren Garoni]

Sorry, you are correct. But I've always wondered about their dynamic, because do you remember that Madonna did a documentary during the run of the Confessions tour? The I'm gonna tell you a secret documentary? And Lourdes is featured, and she's, like, with the nanny, and she's speaking French and all of this stuff. And I'm like, I wonder how that's gonna turn out. Like, Madonna kind of having her thumb and wanting her daughter to be raised in this really specific way. And then I remember this interview with Madonna a few years ago where she talked about how Lourdes doesn't have her work ethic. And I was like, what is going on here between the two of them?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But I've also heard that, like, Lourdes doesn't really get money from her. I don't know how true that is, but I think Lourdes does get money from various modeling opportunities, and that's how she, like, pays her rent and stuff.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think she's incredibly cool. Her son Rocco was estranged from her. Like, there was custody issues that had been in the press. He is an amazing oil painter. I don't know if you've seen his paintings.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I'm unfamiliar.

[Lauren Garoni]

A very talented Nepo baby. The other detail I loved. And honestly, in a Madonna movie, the thing that I want the most from it is the telling of her friendship with Debbie Mazer. Julia Fox playing Debbie Mazer.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of course, one former dominatrix playing another former dominatrix. Wasn't she dominatrix Debbie Mazar? I think so.

[Lauren Garoni]

Let's fact check that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

[Lauren Garoni]

That might be a photo that we saw in the early 90s that made us think she's a dominatrix. At the very least in this article we get. I knew that Debbie Mazur was a door girl or the elevator girl at Danceteria. I didn't know that she was 16 at the time, and she would just push the emergency button on the elevator so that she could go dancing on the dance floor and then come back and run the elevator. See, these are the things we were robbed of in the Madonna biopic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, Debbie Mazar wasn't a dominatrix.

[Lauren Garoni]

I do think it's a photo that we probably saw in the early 90s in some magazine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I'm, like, mixing her up with, like, someone else in that scene. Anywho, I will run out to book Soup to get this issue right after we record. It always takes a few days for it to get to the West Coast. I've learned my lesson the hard way with that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, so we do have time to talk about Disclosure Day, because I have a lot to say.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, honey, so do I. Okay. This is the new Steven Spielberg movie, his latest Alien film, of which he has directed many.

[Lauren Garoni]

We typically talk about new release films at the end of the podcast so that people can exit the podcast if they don't want to be spoiled. We are discussing it in the middle of the podcast. We're getting into fashion news afterwards because Chelsea and I have made the executive decision that if you have seen the

[Chelsea Fairless]

trailer for Disclosure Day, you've seen the film.

[Lauren Garoni]

There's nothing for us to spoil. Honestly, I want to use this time to just try to understand the plot of this film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

This movie is nearly two and a half hours, and it doesn't say anything, it doesn't explain anything, and it is built on a faulty premise.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. Because to invoke the trailer, we learn that there is video evidence of aliens that is, like, shown to the whole world. That was the premise of the film as far as I understood it.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. Which most people who watch the trailer, because that was shown in the trailer, I think I won't speak for you, but at least I had this assumption. And I've seen online, other people assumed, oh, okay, that's going to be the first act of the film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know, Emily Blunt saying, this is Disclosure Day will happen if not at the end of the first act. Okay. Halfway through the film, guys, it's the last five minutes of the movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's truly crazy.

[Lauren Garoni]

Can we discuss. You are the UAP person. The faulty premise that this was built on. And I was discussing the movie with my mother, who hasn't seen it, and I was like, it's bad. It is two and a half hours. Do not waste your time with this movie. And I described to her that the idea is you have one character played by Josh o', Connor, who's basically the Edward Snowden of aliens and is like, everyone needs to know this information. But it is built on a premise, as if we've never as a culture, and it's not a period film. It takes place in the contemporary time period that none of us have a conception that alien life forms may exist. To me, that's the faulty premise that this is built on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think a lot of people feel that way, but when confronted with actual proof, would be shocked. I wouldn't be shocked because I'm on my UAP truther, but most people, like,

[Lauren Garoni]

even my mother was like, oh, yeah, no, there are other beings and entities out there. We just don't know what they want. And I was like, correct. So you have Josh o', Connor, who is, as I said, the Edward Snowden of alien truthers. And then you have Colin Firth, who's like a vague billionaire who has reverse engineered the alien technology for what? We don't fucking know. What is he doing? How is he making his money?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, I imagine it's like military stuff. Cars, planes, things of that nature. But I think that this is a C plus movie. I'm gonna give it a B minus because of my interest in the subject matter, but I do think that it has A plus moments in it, which is Emily Blunt's entire performance.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which is incredible. I also do think when we finally do get the Disclosure Day scene, it is amazing. Chills. This is why we like Spielberg, right?

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, I will fully say Spielberg directs the shit out of this. Janosz Kaminski, who's the director of photography, also shooting the shit out of this John Williams score that hits. Here's my issue with the film. It's a story from Spielberg that David Cope, who wrote Jurassic park, then makes into a screenplay. And it feels like because it's Spielberg's idea, which, from interviews, the best I could understand was like, what if everyone learned that aliens existed?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, we already got that movie. It was Contact. And the reveal came, as you said, maybe a third of the way into the movie. Halfway through the movie is when everyone learned about the aliens. And that was why that movie was so fascinating, because you see how the public at large reacted to that information. And just the Drama of it.

[Lauren Garoni]

This movie kept making me think of the movie Independence Day, and we need to give Roland Emmerich his flowers. Because the fact that Independence Day has a more nuanced ensemble of people who do and do not believe in alien life forms like, there. By the way, there is no Randy Quaid. I'm not. No. I'm not saying that we should have, like, a Tim Dillon, Candace Owens, conspiracy theorist, but there's not one person who's like, I've known about this, and they've tried to silence me other than the Josh o' Connor character.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, the Colman Domingo would love.

[Lauren Garoni]

Again, this is a movie that is nearly three hours long. I understand he worked at Colin Firth's company. By the way, Colin Firth maybe has the worst HR department. A dozen of your employees are gone, and you don't know who they are.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Colin Firth was a low point of this film because when I watched the scenes with Colin Firth, I felt like I was watching, like, one of those, like, cbs, like, sci fi shows that I just, like, would ignore, you know,

[Lauren Garoni]

because, I mean, poor Colin Firth.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We obviously love him.

[Lauren Garoni]

Like, oh, God, like, but he spends 70% of this film in a dentist chair with a mouth guard in his mouth holding a rock dildo.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He's in the minority Report section of this film.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's the other problem with this movie. Beyond it making me want to watch Independence Day, it made me just want to watch other, better Spielberg films.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It made me want to watch a lot of movies. Independence Day, for sure. Contact, definitely. Also like Contact, it had the same stupid sort of embodiment of the science versus faith argument which we got in this movie with, like, Josh o' Connor and his nun girlfriend in Contact. We obviously had that with Jodie Foster, the scientist, and Matthew McConaughey, the. I forget, was he a priest? Something like that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, hold on. Let's dip into this. Because the film starts off so rocky that in the first, I think, 15 minutes, there is dialogue. And again, this is. Is written by the man that wrote Jurassic Park. Like, they know how to do this. That's the frustrating part of this movie is like, no, no. You guys know how to do this successfully.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, and they did succeed in a certain regard, just because it did genuinely feel like an Alien movie from the 90s or the early 2000s. Like, they quite simply don't make movies like this anymore. So there were elements of it that I appreciated for that reason, although, as I said, there were some very, like, cheesy elements to this that did not need to Be quite so present. Like Colin Firth and the whole, like, nun debacle.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, Emily Blunt, you know, if we want to use showgirls terms, Emily Blunt is the Gina Gershon. Like, she knows what movie she's in. She's doing the best with the material. Josh o', Connor, who is a very capable actor, even though he has the most British looking face I've ever seen, I believe him as an American in Challengers. Maybe not this movie, but the first 15 minutes of this film for those who haven't seen it. And please don't just watch Minority Report and then Independence Day, and it'll be a much better experience. But there's a conversation between Josh o' Connor and his girlfriend Eva Hewson. Which, by the way, do you know that Josh o' Connor's girlfriend Jane. Where's Jane? That's Bono's daughter.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, that's Bono's daughter. Wow.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's not even a joke. That is Bono.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I did not know. She's pretty.

[Lauren Garoni]

She's beautiful. There's a conversation between the two of them where Josh o' Connor is like, look, I am an ex con who did cyber terrorism. Maybe we don't know. And then I got hired by this evil company. But you know what? Even though I didn't tell you that, and you're the love of my life, you didn't tell me that you were a nun. So I guess it's kind of even

[Chelsea Fairless]

hiding that you were a nun. Or she wasn't actually a nun, but she was, like, trying to be a nun. Like, she was, like, living in the

[Lauren Garoni]

convent, which when she shows up, I could never conceive that it was gonna go with, like, oh, I was studying to be a nun. I was like, oh, I've seen this in movies before. She's an orphan. She's an orphan that was raised in this convent. Nope. She was on the track to be a nun up until three years ago. So I have so many questions. Chelsea. Oh, my God. Did she lose her virginity to Josh o'? Connor? What's an experiencer? Everyone keeps saying it. What happened to Colin First's wife? Why did that guy explode and then come back?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Why were there all these CGI animals?

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, my God. Okay, let's get to the second part of the film. You texted me, and you were like, this film is Contact meets Mysterious Skin. Because this is the second half of the movie, which is is teased in the trailer that Josh o' Connor and Emily Blunt have this connection. And I'm like, oh, they're brother and sister? No. Oh, they were both abducted by aliens as children? Sort of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And like we said before, that was revealed in the trailer. So don't come at me for spoiling this.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, because fucking Josh o' Connor is like, I was on ketamine in college and I saw a cardinal bird. And then I started hearing math is English.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They were abducted together as children. Yes. Do you remember that scene of them, like, in the spaceship?

[Lauren Garoni]

No, I fucking remember that scene.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was in the trailer.

[Lauren Garoni]

It was in the trailer. But Josh o' Connor isn't like, oh, my God, again. I was yelling at Paul in the car. Just like, from a screenwriting standpoint, I said, there's no exposition dump. And Paul goes, yes, there was. And I go, no, there wasn't an exposition dump in a movie. Like, this is Colman Domingo going like, you were abducted when you were 10 for this reason. You were abducted for this reason.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Why were they abducted?

[Lauren Garoni]

Colman Domingo, I mean, doing incredible work with what he is given, but he is building a set, the entire film. And you're like, what is he doing? And did you have a theory? Because my theory was like. Because you see in the trailer, like, she's like, okay, this is disclosure day. I'm like, do they need to build a quintessential early 90s home to attract the aliens? Is this what we're doing? Is this where she's going to disclose the day?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, don't disclose the reason, because that's the only thing that wasn't revealed in the trailer. But I will say, to invoke mysterious skin. Similarly, this movie sort of interrogates the overlap between people that claim to have been abducted by aliens and people who don't remember parts of their childhood because they were abused. Although it doesn't really go in as deep as it should have, given the fact that they even broach the subject at all. Right. We just kind of get these bad, like, cgi, Hansel and Gretel flashbacks.

[Lauren Garoni]

We're just supposed to accept that these two children were abducted and it's cool. It's not. It's fucking terrifying.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think they think it's cool. Like, no one's saying it's cool to be abducted by aliens.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, but the movie, as you just said, does not interrogate the overlap between sexual trauma and people who say they were abducted by aliens.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, no, it, like dog whistles that this is what it is, but it doesn't go in, which is too bad.

[Lauren Garoni]

What I say, oh, it's cool that you were abducted. What I mean by that is Colman Domingo is like, great, so now we can do disclosure day because now you remember that you were abducted by aliens. And let's not interrogate. What that means and how you two as characters have said for the last two hours. This has ruined your lives up until this point. It's all cool now because aliens and you can talk to them. So do we know if the aliens are good or bad? Like, this is a film that doesn't want to interrogate anything. It just works on a lot of assumptions. One most people's brains would break if we learned that there were aliens. As if most of us have at this point. And I will invoke my mother again. Even she has seen UAP related footage and videos. There's now been. It just felt like no one at the studio level had the balls to tell Spielberg, like, you know, a lot of people have kind of seen alien footage and there were like congressional hearings about it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But I don't think that the public at large really took that seriously because of the quality of the videos.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If there were videos that were like high def close up of aliens, that would be a different story. Which is not to say that there aren't people that. That wouldn't believe it, of course. Like, I just watched that video of Dean Winters, like, debating all of the MAGA women and like, these women, like, didn't believe in the Eugene Carol trial.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know what I mean? Like, they were like, that didn't happen. So I understand that there's like a huge swath of the population that just like, does not accept things that happen,

[Lauren Garoni]

but do you think that the larger public would believe that aliens existed if the disclosure day came out of the Missouri local affiliate?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. It wasn't just one video. It was like 80 videos that they then uploaded to the servers that were then broadcast on all of the major news networks.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, that was the craziest thing. There is a story about Spielberg making Jaws where they didn't have the ending that we see in the film to Jaws where they shoot the oxygen tank and it blows up Jaws. Spoiler alert for a film that's 51 years old. And someone said to Spielberg, like, you, you spoiled Jaws.

[Chelsea Fairless]

How dare you? I was going to watch that.

[Lauren Garoni]

And Rosebud was the sled. Okay, you've now seen Citizen Kane. No, but someone said to Spielberg, like, you know, if you shot an oxygen tank, it wouldn't blow up a shark. And he was like, if people are wondering that in the theater, I've already lost them. That moment in Disclosure Day is when NBC News is like, you know what? This truth is so powerful. Fuck. An exclusive. We're giving it to every news station.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But that's what happens when there is a big news story. Like huge news stories do start from local news stations because they are physically present covering it. Just saying.

[Lauren Garoni]

Did you also enjoy the clearly ADR line of the person being like, is this AI? No. We verified. No way. Hi.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I understand that you did not like Disclosure Day. I do want to bring things back to Emily Blunt's performance because I think it was incredible.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I think Oscar worthy. Yes. And I do think that, like, drag queens should interpret the scene where the cardinal first comes to her and there's like, a wind machine.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, not when she's doing the alien language on the local newscast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That also. Also when she's speaking Korean.

[Lauren Garoni]

I did see an interview where she talked about speaking Korean. I was like, huh. I wonder how that's going to factor into the film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was an incredible performance.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm not being sarcastic when I say that she should be nominated for it. The fact that she didn't win best supporting Actress for Oppenheimer is insane. I'm an Emily Blunt, Stan. I think she does a great American

[Chelsea Fairless]

accent, and she really killed it in Disclosure Day. And it's just fun seeing her as a news anchor. Also just an interesting character.

[Lauren Garoni]

Although whatever her injector did to her face jail.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, don't be a. I'm not being a bitch. You're being a. To her injector.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Yes.

[Lauren Garoni]

She's incredible. I still, 24 hours after seeing this movie, am just puzzled about how this movie could be so long and so little is said or explained.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I had the same thought.

[Lauren Garoni]

So much so that the very end is her and Josh o' Connor whispering stuff that we don't hear as the audience.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't even remember how it ended.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, do you want me to say.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, don't. Don't spoil the ending.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, we can't do a Disclosure Day for the end of Disclosure Day. Fine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also think that we should give a shout out to Courtney Grace, who was the actor that played the news anchor at the very end of the film. This was another Her A plus moment.

[Lauren Garoni]

She's really gone viral.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

I guess the story with that is she was just a background actress. And Spielberg was just so taken with her performance. He featured her the most.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She was a news anchor. Oh. She had worked as an anchor for like, seven years, apparently.

[Lauren Garoni]

Wow. I mean, she's got amazing emotional range.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And that, to me, was the peak of the movie, that scene. And then, you know, Emily Blunt speaking Korean.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. They don't interrogate the awesome powers that Emily Blunt has at all, which is essentially mind reading. There's also an unexplained Parallel World War 3 level event going on that has nothing to do with Disclosure Day.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garoni]

Like, there's a scene where people are overtaking a gas station, and I was like, oh, because they know that aliens exist and everyone's freaked out. It's like, oh, it's the other thing that isn't explained in this film that we just see briefly in the beginning, that there's some vague World War III type events.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Not sure why that had to happen exactly. I guess the thought process was maybe like, okay, there's a lot going on in the world right now, so for everyone to stop and care about the aliens would be like, you know, a whole thing.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, it really feels like a film that would have hit if it came out during the second Obama administration.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because it's a first, honey. First Minority Report time. Or that was. That was George Bush times.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, minority.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was about to say, like, George Bush second term would have been the time, too.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, why I say Obama is it speaks to an idealism that just doesn't exist right now. Like, that's true. I'm sorry, but Josh o' Connor would get murked by the CIA.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Disclosure Day would actually be seven minutes long. It would be that opening scene. And then he would be murdered. Which, by the way, why isn't he murdered?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think they were trying to murder him, but they just couldn't catch him.

[Lauren Garoni]

Colin Firth is chasing him. The entire film just gives up.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think it's because he's also kind of an alien. Right.

[Lauren Garoni]

Wait, what?

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know what I'm talking about. Josh o'. Connor.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, no, no. Oh, Josh o' Connor can't die. I thought you meant Colin Firth is kind of an alien.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, you could do a read. Okay. We're moving on from this movie that you will never have to see again. And, yeah, we should go home and watch Close Encounters and Mysterious Skin and Contact and Independence Day and feel good about the. That.

[Lauren Garoni]

I can't believe you don't like E.T. that was the big revelation of this episode for me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I need to watch that again, because, in all honesty, when I first saw it, I was so young that I was actually scared by E.T. i didn't think it was cute. I thought it was scary and slimy and gross. So for that reason, it was hard for me to, like, empathize with the character of E.T.

[Lauren Garoni]

i mean, that's how I felt about Disclosure Day.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, moving on.

[Lauren Garoni]

Let's finish out this episode with some fashion news.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In a news item that is straight out of 2002, Isaac Mizrahi is now the creative director at large for Target. Who knows what that means? And frankly, who cares? This does sound like the very nebulous editor at large role that Andre Leontelli had at Vogue. And Isaac Mizrahi did point that out in one of his Instagram videos.

[Lauren Garoni]

Pretty funny. As they said in the Target press release, it is a first of its kind role. And it will see Mizrahi serving as an advisor across Target's in house design teams. He will mentor young talent. He'll also play a role in storytelling and marketing for the retailer. They do note he won't be designing himself. He sees his job as one to inspire, to push it, to drive a cohesive design code across Target's departments, starting primarily in the fashion and home departments, but extending to all the retailers in house brands in categories like food and wellness.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know we're supposed to be still upset at Target for rolling back their DEI initiatives, but, like, I'm very happy that Isaac Mizrahi is no doubt getting a very large check for this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, for sure. In the original Isaac Mizrahi collaboration with Target was really, really groundbreaking. And a lot of people don't give him the credit that he deserves for the collab culture of today, because he did get overshadowed by that Karl Lagerfeld H M collaboration, which came out maybe a couple years after the Target thing. But it was a significant moment and it also did help to define the look that Target was known for. You know, they always had the dog and the branding, which was always really good. But I think the clothes that he did, the home stuff that he did, the whole thing, like, really shaped how we thought about Target for a long time. Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

When was the last time you've stepped into a Target? Because I will say that during that Isaac Mizrahi era that then led into a lot of designer collaborations. Like, I remember the Rodarte Target collab. I bought many dresses from that collaboration.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. I'm remembering a stretch lace, leopard print dress that I had from that Rodarte Target collab.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, yeah. I had some tragic fake tulle tiered tea dress look.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I appreciate that they did it. It came to us when we needed it.

[Lauren Garoni]

But since, I don't know, 2010, I don't think I've stepped into a Target except for the last year. Because when you become a parent, you quickly realize Target is the only place that has actually in store shit that you need for a baby. Diapers, formula, toys, clothes, medicine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I haven't been there for a minute, but usually when I go it is because I need something specific urgently.

[Lauren Garoni]

But I will say the clothing a little rough. So they could use Isaac's touch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think there are things, I think it depends. I think that Target has been good to me over the years. So I don't want to totally talk shit. But yes, we need Isaac to come in and tell people what looks expensive and what looks cheap.

[Lauren Garoni]

And also because it was written in the press release, I am curious what Isaac Mizrahi's touch on their food department might look like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know, maybe you could get like a Via Carota Cacio e Pepe in a bag or something.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think their in house brand for food is good and gather something like that. He might have to rework that name. Okay, what else? We have some fashion house exits after

[Chelsea Fairless]

two years, Adrian Pilaza is leaving Moschino.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, according to Women's Wear Daily, in their announcements, which came Friday evening, it was announced that they were parting ways by mutual agreement, effective immediately.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That sounds fun.

[Lauren Garoni]

Just pretty harsh. Massimo Ferretti, executive chairman of afe, thanked Appalooza for a significant contribution to the development of Moschino over the past two years and wishes him every success in his future professional endeavors. I was actually unaware who owned Moschino, but as I've dug into it, the parent company is in a ton of trouble. Last year they laid off 200 employees and have entered the Italian equivalent of pre bankruptcy proceedings and are looking for a capital injection to revitalize the company. So I need Moschino to survive. I think it is a fashion house that if it had the right creative director, would explode. And I know his name is attached to everything, every vacant design position, but my pitch is, is Dario Vitali?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that would be a dream. And that would be the ultimate revenge against the Prada overlords that fired him after they acquired Versace. But I think this is really sad because I actually really liked him. Like he was giving the vibe of like a tatted Provincetown gay. He always brought his French bulldog out with him when he would like take a bow after his fashion shows. He had worked at Loewe previously and I do think that he brought a coolness to Moschino that was very much needed after this sort of tail end of the Jeremy Scott tenure. But that said, like, it didn't ever really make a splash in the way that Jeremy Scott's early collections did. Although I do think that a lot of the clothes were quite cool, actually, and quite wearable. And the price is right, like, it's a Moschino is like a different price point than most big brands.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know, I just think we need to keep our fun fashion houses.

[Chelsea Fairless]

For sure. See, my pitch for a new designer is the same as it was the last time this position was vacant. And that is Vacara. Vacara, like, in terms of the thought process, is the closest thing that exists fists to a Franco Moschino. Presently. They, you know, make clothes that critique the fashion industry in a satirical way. They do all that trompe l'. Oeil. They can do teddy bears. They've never had the resources of a big luxury house. Like, I think that is what should happen if there is a God.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, there's not. I mean, disclosure day taught us, no God, just aliens.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But Daria Vitaly would be amazing also. Although I feel like that would be too much of a step down for him almost after Versace. But we'll see. It shouldn't be like Moschino's so major. We all love it. And like Versace, there's so much to draw upon in terms of the stuff in the archives.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Well, in researching this article, it just made me concerned for Moschino as a whole, because it seems like they have more issues than finding the correct creative director.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that's too bad. So shortly after we got this announcement, we got another announcement about a creative director that is departing. Julian Desena, who has been designing for Paco Rabanne for the past 13 years.

[Lauren Garoni]

They said, can I ask a question? When did they drop the Paco? When did it just start being referred to as Rabban?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I actually don't know.

[Lauren Garoni]

That, to me, was a glow down and nothing against this designer. He's been.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think he was good also.

[Lauren Garoni]

He was good. But as someone who loves Paco Rabban, some of his output was a little Sandro.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's very true.

[Lauren Garoni]

And Paco Rabban could be so good. And it's almost there. Like it should. Should have a courage level, good revival. Right. Because they're both 1960s era French brands with very distinct signature pieces.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Look, it's not as if he wasn't good and didn't make good clothes and good collections. But he had kind of done everything that he could possibly do at this point.

[Lauren Garoni]

He couldn't design another chainmail headpiece.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm curious to see what happens with that because I would really, really love for that brand to have a glow up.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, according to Women's Wear Daily, they have been talking to Olivier Rashtings.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I mean, I guess, Sure. I don't know who I would want to go there. Trying to think, like, who is even making those sorts of chainmail dresses right now? Now, if anyone.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I am.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Area.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, yeah. I mean, but he's. He's somewhere. Where is he?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Where's who?

[Lauren Garoni]

The area designer.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, the original one left, and now it's this cool gay that used to be at Balenciaga who's like, really been bringing it up, but I forget what his name is. But no, we don't need Arya to come in and fix this. I'm just thinking, like, who makes dresses like that? That.

[Lauren Garoni]

But that's why I was invoking Korezh, because I don't know who's the designer behind Korezh, but they've figured it out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The designer behind Korege is a guy named Nicolas de Felice. And yeah, he's not like. I don't know. To my knowledge, he doesn't really have the Persona of a celebrity designer. But he's cool. He's killing it, but in a more quiet way. And again, like, courage, like Moschino is operating at a different kind of price point than a lot of these other brands. They're not trying to charge you $6,000, $10,000 for a coat.

[Lauren Garoni]

Not yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Soon, I'm sure. So we'll see what happens with that.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, I think the first order of business, you add Paco back to the Rabang.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Actually, wait, no. We've also talked about this before. See, my memory is so such. The person that should have that job is actually K. Nomiya, whose name I always butcher. I am sorry. That is the only person that makes dresses like Paco Rabann right now. So he should get that job. But I feel like once people are in that, like come to garcon family, they just don't leave, you know? Why would you.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's quite like the mafia in that way. Yeah, the only way to leave is deaf.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there's so few people that get their own brand that, like, why rock the boat, you know, to go to Rabanne. Hell no.

[Lauren Garoni]

Paco Rabanne maybe, but Rabanne no way.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Okay.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you want to quickly just blow through Men's Fashion Week?

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So it started with PT uomo, which is the big Italian men's trade show that happens every year. They always have guest designers, usually quite cool people to do sort of one off collections. This year it was K. Ninomiya and Simone Rocha who did her first full menswear collection. She's been slowly integrating menswear into her shows for a while now, but this was the first all male show.

[Lauren Garoni]

And you know who felt like the overarching inspiration for Simone Rocha's first full menswear show? Who? Carrie Bradshaw. And I've never thought of Carrie Bradshaw as a menswear inspiration, but it kind of makes sense. Like that one look that had that was the rugby shirt with the rosette or the finale look like felt very deconstructed. Carrie tutu, for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's clothing for men who identify as carries. Definitely. She's pushing this sort of like androgynous, feminized menswear agenda where it's like, about an adult man looking like the little boy from Death in Venice. You know, it's about looking like an Edwardian twink.

[Lauren Garoni]

It reminded me, I was trying to think of, like, who would wear this because obviously the, you know, reductive reference would be Harry Styles. But I could see David Sedaris in a lot of these looks. Looks.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, he would love this. And so would Harry Styles. You'd have to be a man that's comfortable wearing shorts.

[Lauren Garoni]

Wearing shorts. Wearing an apron.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wearing shorts. Like for black tie.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know, wearing an apron. I loved that. I felt like the aprons in this show were in dialogue with the Mew Mew aprons from that last women's collection that they did.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I thought it was actually more interesting than the Miu Miu interpretation because a lot of conversation after Paris Fashion Week because it was Mew Mew and a couple other brands that had, you know, what people categorize as like a trad wife aesthetic. And what does that say about our culture? And to have that in a menswear collection, I thought was actually subversive and interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. But anyone that thinks that, like, Musha Prada is pushing a trad wife agenda via putting models in these sort of crafty, homemade looking, 70s, like, drab, disgusting aprons, like, that's psycho logic right there.

[Lauren Garoni]

Should we talk about the most interesting part, I think, of Simone Rocha's concept for menswear, which is men wearing boas.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. I don't know if they were actually feathers, though. I think they might have been, like, shredded organza or something like that. But they were incredible.

[Lauren Garoni]

That makes sense. I was thinking of other significant menswear feather boa moments, and my mind always goes back to a press shot of Todd Haynes and Christian Bale promoting Velvet Gold Mine for, I believe, the COVID of Village Voice, where they both have makeup. They are shirtless only wearing, well, leather pants, and pink and blue feather boas.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A boa on a man is an exceptional look. Also very rocky horror. To bring it back to our conversation a couple weeks ago.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, I think men are going to start wearing boas.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I hope they do.

[Lauren Garoni]

And how could we leave Lenny Kravitz out of this conversation?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's true. Guys are wearing this Simone Rocha menswear, though. I do see it. Like, I see on Instagram, like, I see, like, gay guys going to weddings in Italy wearing, like, those sheer shirts with, like, the flowers in them or whatever, and that makes me happy. I'm glad people are buying that stuff.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think if you look at this Men's Fashion Week, it was very feminine, or I guess a lot of designers were playing with ideas of femininity. Like. Like boas, like florals.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, like Jonathan Anderson, Raf Simmons have also been pushing that sort of, like, feminized menswear agenda for a really, really long time. And now they've been around long enough that they're now referencing themselves, which is crazy. But anywh, who shall we get into? Prada. Yes, Prada. Who made sort of upscale versions of those American Apparel colored skinny jeans.

[Lauren Garoni]

Jeans were a big concept for this collection. And I don't know if you read the show notes, but part of this collection was inspired by the fact that Raf Simmons had not worn a pair of jeans in 20 years and had just started wearing jeans again.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But is he actually wearing a colored skinny jean? I don't believe it.

[Lauren Garoni]

You have to be. This is the other thing about this menswear fashion week. You also have to be very skinny.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You have to be skinny for it to have this silhouette.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which, you know, is a silhouette that I do associate with Raf Simmons and Eddie Slimane and that sort of, like, Y2K hipster menswear look that became so popular that then did become mass via American Apparel.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do we know if Los Angeles Apparel is still selling skinny jeans?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know, but they'll probably start selling them again after this product collection because it feels like it's in the same exact colors. You know, it's like a canary yellow and like, a shocking fuchsia. I remember they had teal ones.

[Lauren Garoni]

Also sort of an acid seafoam green, I seem to remember.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I've seen a lot of criticism of this collection online. I don't hate it. I do appreciate the fact that, like, Prada is always pushing, like, an ugly 70s knitwear agenda. Or not always, but consistently. And I understand why they'd be embracing a slimmer silhouette. Although, of course, it looks, you know, very different on the models than it does in reality.

[Lauren Garoni]

What else? The big news at Dior was sheer suits.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I thought those were gorgeous. Also practical for, you know, these gay guys that need to go to Italian weddings.

[Lauren Garoni]

Italian weddings. I mean, I felt bad for any of the buyers, the editors, certainly the male models who had to walk and sit for these shows in a unprecedented Parisian heat wave.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Prayers to everyone. This also felt like an early 2000s Eddie Slimane throwback. In a good way, though. It's time.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Jonathan Anderson was discussing his idea for the Dior man for this collection, and he was talking about how it was a fantasy of a character and it's like a party boy. And he invoked the men's boarding school Eton, which I found very interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, it's also an Edwardian twin

[Lauren Garoni]

think, but also, I mean, I know there's all of this conversation about, like, is Jonathan Anderson's Dior man and woman? Is it working? Is it selling? Is it too cerebral? He's consistently putting out pieces regardless of, like, silhouettes that are just gonna sell well. Because I think one of the. I think it was the penultimate look was this sweater that had the classic Dior canvas D all over it. Like, that is gonna sell like hotcakes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. There is also a couple of bomber jackets in this show that, like, had the lapels, like, the kind of lapel that you would see on a tuxedo. That's genius. We've seen, like, in recent years, a lot of designers, especially Saint Laurent, has been pushing this sort of bomber jacket with a suit and a tie kind of look. I feel like that actually is practical again for these gays that are going to weddings.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you want to talk about the Saint Laurent collection? Because I think the big idea was, like, instead of a bomber, what about an orange parka with pants?

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What about a windbreaker? Like, tucked into a sort of. It's not like a full paper bag waist, but that kind of vibe.

[Lauren Garoni]

And also translucent loafers. I don't know if you clock that,

[Chelsea Fairless]

but I did collect the loafers.

[Narrator/Clip Voice]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, I Continue to think that Saint Laurent is incredible.

[Lauren Garoni]

It was a very strong collection. And please forgive me, Chelsea, when I say this, but some of it was giving me Frankie Shop vibes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Girl, it's too tailored for Frankie Shop. Have you ever ordered anything from Frankie Shop? Because even if you get, like, an extra small, it's like a 10 XL.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. As a petite person, I can't shop at the Frankie Shop Up. I don't know who the fit model is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love that they push that sort of oversized look. But, yes, it is hard when it comes to actually buying clothes, as their clothes don't adhere to any sort of traditional sizing.

[Lauren Garoni]

But there was one look in this collection. It's like anytime I see a suit vest with suit pants in, like, a khaki or a gray, because I have bought that exact Frankie Shop suit. Like, that's what I think of. I can't think of anything else.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I like that they made suits for men that were relatively simple, but they had these sort of, like, ornate jeweled buttons that one would associate with, like, a conservative woman from the 1980s. You know, like a classic sailoron, Christian Lacroix kind of consumer. A Nancy Reagan ass bitch, for sure. We will be back next week with a hotline episode.

[Lauren Garoni]

Feel free to call the hotline and leave hopefully under a minute voicemails. Our number is 323-486-6773. See you next week, guys. Bye. Every update. Every update.

[Chelsea Fairless]

When I scraped my car in that parking garage, I was worried that it could be a long process to take care of it. Like a landscaper's first day trimming a hedge maze.

[Lauren Garoni]

I have definitely already been here. Now, was it left, right or right left? Well, maybe I'll cut a path out

[Chelsea Fairless]

and find my way back later. But it wasn't like that. I filed a claim in under two minutes on the Geico app, and they handled it from there. It was taken care of almost as quickly as it happened. It feels good to get help quick. It feels good to Geico.