285: On Galliano Backlash, Influencer Drama, Regrettable Rebrands

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast Episode 285:

“On Galliano Backlash, Influencer Drama, Regrettable Rebrands”
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garrone
Release Date: August 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the fashion world’s most heated conversation: the Metropolitan Museum’s upcoming John Galliano retrospective and its surrounding backlash. Chelsea and Lauren break down the Met’s PR strategy, Galliano’s complex legacy, and the thorny politics of separating art from artist. The conversation then shifts to influencer controversies, the evolving landscape of social media, and some recent rebrands in the fashion and beauty world that have left fans baffled. True to the Every Outfit spirit, the hosts combine “bitchy fashion commentary” with keen pop culture insight and a wry sense of humor.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. The John Galliano Met Exhibition Backlash

[01:03–21:59]

The Announcement & PR Maneuvers

• Timing of Announcement: Lauren notes the press release was dropped late Friday, “which in PR terms usually means people only do this when they want to bury a news story” ([01:19]).
• Transparency in Press Release: The Met’s statement acknowledges Galliano’s racist and antisemitic comments, explaining the exhibition will “consider how artistic achievement should be understood alongside ethical accountability” ([02:38]).

The Incident Recap

• Galliano’s 2011 Scandal: Recap of Galliano’s drunken antisemitic and anti-Asian tirade that got him fired from Dior and convicted for hate crimes in France ([03:03–04:51]).
• The Met’s Framing: Exhibition to be organized into three sections: Bearings, Horizons, and Atlas of Transformation. The first directly addresses Galliano’s misconduct and its fallout ([03:59–04:51]).

The Backlash & Internet Discourse

• Diverse Opinions:
  • Chelsea acknowledges people’s right to boycott: “If you don’t like him, don’t go to the show” ([05:55]).
  • Lauren: “Backlash kind of falls into a couple of different lanes...” ([06:18]):
    • Young people learning of the scandal for the first time
    • People opposing the exhibition entirely
    • Those who think it should be posthumous
• Context in Fashion History:
  • Galliano is only the third living designer to get a solo Met retrospective ([06:51]);
  • Anna Wintour and Andrew Bolton’s long history of championing Galliano ([07:40–08:31]);
  • Wintour’s investment both personal and professional.

Media Coverage & Nuance

• Vanessa Friedman’s NYT Article:
  • Hosts note her “bias,” focusing on Galliano’s scandal over his work ([10:09–10:26]).
  • Anna Wintour and the Met arranged a meeting between Galliano and Jewish community leaders, continuing an effort of reconciliation ([12:25–13:15]).
  • Jonathan Newhouse (Conde Nast) played a major behind-the-scenes role in Galliano’s rehabilitation ([13:15]).
• Galliano’s Rehabilitation:
  • Includes therapy, speaking at Jewish events, abstaining from teaching, trying to volunteer in Israel, etc. ([13:55–14:57]).
  • Lauren, on repeated efforts: “He was going from school to school being like, I’ll teach” ([14:57]).

The Ethics of Showcasing Galliano

• Have We Moved Too Fast to Forgive?
  • Lauren is skeptical of Anna Wintour’s quote: “The truth is, we rarely know the full story…” ([17:06]), arguing Galliano’s story, at this point, is well documented.
• Art vs. Artist:
  • Chelsea: “I don’t want the public to decide what I can and can’t see based on the life of the artist” ([20:32]).
  • Lauren: “That’s just not how things work. There are powers that be far beyond our reach who have wanted this...” ([20:55]).

Optics, Sponsorship, and the Gala

• Speculation:
  • Zara, Galliano’s current employer, may underwrite the exhibition ([24:11]).
  • Possible Jewish and Asian co-chairs for the gala ([24:22]).

Fashion World Response & The Met Gala Predictions

• Substack Commentary:
  • Dana Thomas, Galliano biographer, is playfully salty about not being contacted for the exhibition ([24:47–25:42]), and ultimately argues Galliano should get a retrospective only posthumously ([25:57]).
• Fan-casting the Met Gala: Loads of speculative, fun banter about who will wear what and whether iconic Galliano pieces will get their Met moment ([27:18–34:43]).

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea: “If you don’t like him, don’t go to the show.” ([05:55])
• Lauren: “Avoiding his work doesn't remove his influence on fashion or solve the ethical questions around it.” ([16:26], quoting Andrew Bolton)
• Chelsea: “I don’t want the public to decide what I can and can’t see based on the life of the artist.” ([20:32])

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2. Fashion and Pop Culture Newsflash

[35:04–46:32]

Viral Outfits & Pop Culture

• Meg Stalter’s dominatrix Carrie Bradshaw look goes viral ([35:09–36:43]).
• Billie Eilish’s transformation for The Bell Jar film—hosts praise unexpected casting working out ([43:59–45:37]).
• Gabriette’s wedding: a standout for “insanely cool” bespoke dresses inspired by Dracula ([37:15–39:33]).
• Zendaya’s ongoing fashion domination on press tours ([39:48–41:51]).
• Denim Tears x Andre Leon Talley collaboration: approachable, “eclectic” homage to fashion’s great ([45:32–47:58]).

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3. Lauren’s Influencer News Corner

[48:07–61:59]

Influencer Identity & Tradwife Discourse

• Nara Smith’s public distance from tradwife branding sparks online debate—Lauren: “She did tread into those visuals and that language. So she can't be shocked” ([50:01]).
• Discussion of authenticity versus performance art among influencers ([51:09–51:57]).

The Nantucket “No Influencer” Sign

• Viral photo in shop window sparks questions of anti-influencer backlash and over-tourism ([51:57–56:28]).
• Paige Lorenze calls the sign “anti-feminist”—Chelsea: “As if there aren’t horrible male influencers everywhere…” ([55:35]).

The Influencer Engagement Recession

• Vulture piece on influencers pivoting to “rage-bait” (posting about excessive takeout spending, etc.) for engagement ([56:29–58:48]).
• Social media algorithms now reward educational and entertaining content, not just perfection ([58:30]).
• Discussion of the pain points of Instagram’s analytics and platform evolution ([61:31–61:59]).

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren: “She did tread into those visuals and that language. So she can't be shocked that she was made the poster child of of this movement…” ([50:01])
• Chelsea: “As if there aren’t like horrible male influencers everywhere also. Especially like gay male influencers, like ravaging antique stores…” ([55:35])

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4. Regrettable Rebrands: Fashion & Beauty Fumbles

[62:10–77:44]

Us Weekly Becomes “Us Magazine”

• The iconic celebrity tabloid will no longer be published weekly—marking an end of an era for millennial nostalgia ([62:18–65:49]).
• Reflection on the history and cultural significance of US Weekly’s golden era ([63:16–63:55]).

Gap & L’Occitane Fragrance Redesigns

• Gap reissues classic 90s fragrances—but with new bottles, new formulas—hosts are mystified at the redesign's lack of nostalgia ([65:50–68:08]).
• L’Occitane’s new ownership brings packaging changes: “La Maison de Provence” feels more like “hotel minis” than classic French apothecary ([70:09–73:14]).

Coke’s Global Rebrand

• Coke’s new packaging causes a stir online with some likening its typography to Marlboro cigarettes.
• Chelsea and Lauren, with a typographer’s POV, break down why it’s controversial, and what it signals about American cultural brands ([74:24–77:44]).

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Memorable Moments & Zingers

• “What if he ends up teaching at an Israeli fashion school and then just gets canceled by a completely different group of people?”
  Chelsea, [14:57]
• On Dana Thomas’s Op-Ed:
  Lauren: “Do you not want this exhibition to happen because Andrew Bolton hasn’t called you yet?” ([26:49])
• On Met Gala spectacle:
  Chelsea: “I also hope that Addison Rae wears something incredibly stupid from one of those Y2K Dior collections that just like wasn't that formal...” ([33:17])
• On Gap fragrance bottles:
  Chelsea: “The bottle is very simple and soulless. It almost looks like it should be a nail polish and not a fragrance.” ([68:08])
• On L'Occitane rebrand:
  Chelsea: “Heritage, but not super high end.” ([71:06])
  Lauren: “The real test is, are the stores going to be redone to look like med spas?” ([74:12])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Galliano Announcement & Backlash: [01:03–21:59]
• Fan-Casting the Met Gala: [27:18–34:43]
• Influencer Drama & Nantucket Outrage: [48:07–56:28]
• Influencer Engagement Recession: [56:29–61:59]
• Regrettable Rebrands (Us Weekly, Gap, L’Occitane, Coke): [62:10–77:44]
• Notable Quote (Chelsea): “If you don’t like him, don’t go to the show.” ([05:55])

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Tone & Style

Chelsea and Lauren remain witty, acerbic, and self-aware throughout. Their conversations are rich with industry insight, meme-worthy quips, and a self-conscious nod to their own biases and age. Their takes are “bitchy” but also often compassionate, especially when discussing art vs. artist and the pressures of creative industries.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode delivers a dense, entertaining, and well-informed perspective on one of fashion’s toughest contemporary questions: How do we honor artistry without erasing the artist’s failings? Through sharp commentary on industry news, influencer culture, and the cyclical absurdities of rebranding, Chelsea and Lauren offer both laughs and thoughtful provocations for the Every Outfit faithful.

Transcript

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garrone]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oral. The thing.

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Great gowns.

[Lauren Garrone]

Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Shall we get straight into it?

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, did something big happen?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Something big did happen. This past Friday, the Costume Institute announced the theme of their big spring exhibition, and it's all about John Galliano. Before we get into the backlash, shall we get into the press release that the Costume Institute released?

[Lauren Garrone]

Of course. But before we even get into the press release, can we discuss the. The timing of the press release, which. It was dropped Friday afternoon, which in PR terms usually means people only do this when they want to bury a news story. However, in a Internet world, I don't think things work like that anymore.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. But they clearly wanted to minimize the backlash. Like, even with this podcast, we typically record on Thursdays because there is typically a lack of news on Fridays, for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

Although upon retrospect, all the news we do want to cover is the news that typically people want to bury.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Friday news.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Anyway, the show is called John Galliano Horizons. According to the press release, it will draw extensively from the Costume Institute's holdings of Galliano's work, the largest collection of its kind in the world, including examples from his landmark 1984 graduation collection at Central St Martin's in London, and culminating with his critically acclaimed Margiela Spring Summer 20002004 collection, which I don't think many

[Lauren Garrone]

people have read the press release. I think they just saw John Galliano subject to this year or next year's Met Gala and lost their minds and were like, what about the controversies which they get into in the following paragraph of this press release?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, they addressed this straight away. The press release says, alongside Galioto's extraordinary creative accomplishments, the exhibition will address the derogatory conduct that fundamentally altered his career and public reception in Dewey. So the exhibition will consider how artistic achievement should be understood alongside ethical accountability.

[Lauren Garrone]

So there you go. Problem solved. All right. Can't wait for May, guys.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, I don't want to get into the intricacies of his cancellation again, but for those of you who have completely forgotten, in 2011, he got blackout drunk at Le Pearl in Paris, and he got in a fight with a couple other people at the restaurant, and he made horrible racist, anti Semitic comments towards

[Lauren Garrone]

these people, which he maintains to this day that he has no memory of this incident. He was swiftly fired from his position at Dior. And then later that year in 2011, he was charged in a Paris courtroom for hate crimes, which, when this court case happened, they brought up a second incident that actually happened prior to the publicized incident that happened in 2010 that

[Podcast Host/Producer]

he also has no memory of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

At the same cafe.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Because I guess in France you can get charged with a hate crime for speech, which I do not believe is the case here.

[Lauren Garrone]

We do have hate speech, but, yes, in particular, they are very sensitive, understandably so, to anti Semitism. I did find it interesting in the press release, they go on to say how the exhibition is going to be broken up and it's going to be organized into three movements. Bearings, Horizons and Atlas of Transformation. The first Bearings will open with a conceptual chronology connecting Galliano's career and collections to broader historical and cultural events. It will directly address the rupture caused by his anti Semitic, racist, and anti Asian conduct in 2010 and 2011, which resulted in a dismissal from Christian Dior and his eponymous label and his conviction by a Paris court for public insults based on race, religion, ethnicity, or origin. To me, with this press release, it shows that they have really thought about how to present this and how this was going to be received.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Totally.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But also, how are they actually going to present this? Are they going to show the video? Are they going to put, like, I Love Hitler on the wall?

[Lauren Garrone]

Which is something he said. I do appreciate, because it is often lost in this conversation that not only did he make anti Semitic remarks, but in the incident he didn't remember, he made anti Asian remarks.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the anti Semitism has really overshadowed the anti Asian aspect of his tirade.

[Lauren Garrone]

So, as we hinted at before, clearly Anna Wintour, Andrew Bolton, the people behind the Costume Institute, knew that this was going to get a reaction, which is probably why they dropped this news on Friday afternoon. But again, as I said, the way the Internet works, it did not die down. And I saw, I have to say, some of the worst takes I've seen on the Internet in a minute.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I don't mind a bad Take. But I do mind a bad take that's not rooted in any kind of reality. Like I told you, I saw a tweet that was like, really? Really? We're doing Galliano before Margiela?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's like, yeah, but also, we should do both. Look, I think that everyone is totally entitled to their feelings about Galliano. I have no desire to try to convince someone who hates him to like him. However, when people start to make the argument that his work shouldn't be shown in museums, then I take issue. If you don't like him, don't go to the show.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. And I would say that the backlash kind of falls into a couple of different lanes. There are younger people, I've noticed, who were maybe alive when John Galliano was fired from Dior, but are learning for the first time how and why he was fired. And then you have people who just do not want this exhibition to happen. And then you have the other group of people who are like, yeah, I mean, obviously, his work warrants an exhibition, but why can't it happen when he's dead?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Lauren Garrone]

And for those who don't know, this show at the Costume Institute is unprecedented for a few reasons. Galliano is only the third living designer to even have a retrospective. The first was Yves St. Laurent in 1983. That was under Diana Vreeland's tenure. And then the Costume Institute did a show about rei Kawakubo in 2017.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do want to point out that Miuccia Prada also did get a show, but it was a joint show with Elsa Sky Schiaparelli. Not totally the same thing, but another modern designer that has gotten the big retrospective while she's still alive.

[Lauren Garrone]

And we've discussed this before, we know that Andrew Bolton in 2024 tried to push through a Galliano retrospective then and did not have support from the board. So it's not exactly surprising that we are finally getting a Galliano retrospective.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, they've been trying to push this through for a while. It is clearly something that is very, like, personally important to Anna Wintour and to Andrew Bolton. Anna Wintour specifically has been investing in him, championing him, supporting him for a really, really long time. And that extends well before his cancellation and the image rehabilitation that she helped to coordinate.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's worth noting that when she has been interviewed and asked about her favorite fashion collection ever, she has listed multiple times John Galliano's fall win 1994 collection. She was instrumental in him getting his job, first of Givenchy and then at Dior. So her tenure at Vogue is very intimately intertwined with John Galliano's career as well.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. And they get into this in the documentary High and Low, which we talked about last year, year before. But there was a point in the early 90s where Galliano, his business was like, completely bankrupt. He'd lost all of his investors. He barely had the money to, like, eat or buy fabric for his shows. And Andre Leon Talley specifically made it their mission to help his brand survive during that period. It was more like a sort of patron of the arts role than a typical designer editor relationship. They helped them find venues, find models, find stylists, find backers. And I don't know if he would have gotten that Givenchy job if not for what they did for him.

[Lauren Garrone]

Absolutely. I mean, I think it's telling that in this retrospective, they are starting with his graduation collection at Central St. Martin's I mean, to say that he's a preternatural talent is underselling it, honestly.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Totally.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And we also got that in the McQueen show, which is kind of the closest type of exhibition that they've done to this Galliano show. I'm imagining in the sort of theatricality, the sort of controversial nature of the designer and the darkness, I suppose, around these people.

[Lauren Garrone]

So I don't exactly know about the timing, if Vanessa Friedman's article came out first or the press release, but certainly on the same day, Vanessa Friedman broke the news in the style section of the New York Times. While she didn't outright say that she did not like this show, we could read between the lines.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I know that the New York Times is supposed to be impartial, but I felt that she couldn't conceal her bias in this article, which was almost entirely, entirely about his cancellation and not really about his work at all.

[Lauren Garrone]

She basically was like, yeah, he had a 14 year tenure at Dior and that's it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

We did learn some really interesting things from this article though. One is that the Met and Anna Wintour staged a meeting between Galliano and a bunch of Jewish community leaders and rabbis ahead of this announcement, which when

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I was reading that line, I'm like, isn't that the beginning of a borsch belt joke?

[Lauren Garrone]

Like Anna Wintour, Andrew Bolton, John Galliano and a handful of influential rabbis and Jewish leaders walk into the Met Museum.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, from my understanding this is just kind of how John Galeato spends his free time. Because also in that documentary we learned that I believe the Anti Defamation League like paired him with a rabbi immediately after he got out of rehab for his drug addiction.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, I want to get into this because Anna Wintour is often point as the architect of his rehabilitation, which is true, but there is also someone a little more behind the scenes, which is Jonathan Newhouse who is the chairman of Conde Nas. He is actually the one who introduced him to Abraham Foxman who was at the time the head of the Anti Defamation League, who did pair him up with various rabbis, scheduled a tour for him at Auschwitz really kind of took him through the paces. Also, Jonathan Newhouse is featured in the High and Low documentary and that document about Galliano is a co production with Conde Nast Entertainment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, and also Anna Wintour was apparently instrumental in sort of getting this documentary made.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, it was shopped around to many directors for a long time before they found the person who ended up directing the documentary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, and I believe we learned that he also had to like read a lot about antisemitism, educate himself. He ended up speaking at a lot of Jewish community events. He volunteered to teach at a fashion school in Israel, which declined him.

[Lauren Garrone]

Understandably so to be fair, that was only a few years after the incident. But it did spark a memory in us, which is Galliano, around the same time was going to teach a four day seminar at Parsons. This is after the time we graduated and there was protests. And so he no longer was going to teach the seminar at Parsons. Which just makes me think between that anecdote and this new information that he offered his services to a fashion school in Israel just makes me think that he was going from school to school being like, I'll teach.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What if he ends up teaching at an Israeli fashion school and then just gets canceled by a completely different group of people?

[Lauren Garrone]

It's very possible.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I guess my confusion about this is,

[Lauren Garrone]

and I can't directly point to the kind of do better crowd is the same people that don't want this exhibition to happen. But it's not like this incident happened a year ago and now he's getting a retrospective. He has done the work. You can think that it wasn't enough to warrant this exhibition, but I mean, I think he certainly paid for what he's done. The Anti Defamation League has come out a few years ago and after this exhibition was announced and have said that they believe that this exhibition should happen, but certainly understand people are upset about this idea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I think while people should be held accountable for their actions, especially racism and anti Semitism, I also think that there is a segment of the population that really does feel that he deserves to be punished, feels that he hasn't been punished enough. I think that sort of person probably would be comfortable with him getting these accolades when he's dead, but not when he's alive. From my perspective, I think he lost a lot. He lost his employment for years. People don't think he lost it for long enough though, for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

He also still doesn't have the rights back to his eponymous label that is still owned by lvmh and his reputation

[Chelsea Fairless]

is permanently damaged forever.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I'm sure Galliano would rather have a retrospective that didn't have to focus on the worst moments of his life. But here we are, and I think Andrew Bolton spoke to this in the Vanessa Friedman piece. Avoiding his work doesn't remove his influence on fashion or solve the ethical questions around it. Bolton continued, our responsibility is neither to celebrate uncritically nor avoid that difficult history, but establish the record honestly, provide context, and create the conditions for visitors to make an informed judgment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I appreciate what he said. I'm an adult. I can choose whether or not I want to go and see this or not. I can draw my own conclusions from his body of work as well as his personal narrative.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Although I did take issue with this quote from Anna where she says, I feel quite strongly that our culture has begun to move too quickly towards condemnation, toward a feeling of certainty that particular offenses or mistakes are unforgivable. The truth is, we rarely know the full story, and all of us are fallible.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What's wrong with that?

[Lauren Garrone]

The issue I take with that is that the truth is we rarely know the full story. Actually, we kind of do know the full story with John Galliano because he has been on this 13 year rehabilitation tour, the peak of which I think is the documentary. He has explained himself. For anyone who has watched the documentary and for those who haven't, he explains that it was a confluence of events, that he was addicted to sleeping pills, Valium, as well as alcohol, that his father had just died, along with. With two other people in his life. There were mounting pressures at Dior. I'm not justifying this, but he did come up in an era where the work just got more and more and more. I mean, he was designing 24 collections a year.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We're still in that era. What do you think Jonathan Anderson is doing right now?

[Lauren Garrone]

But I do think there are more guardrails for designers of this era who saw what it did to other designers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know about that. I think it's also worth mentioning that at the time of the incident, he was also, like, extremely sleep deprived. Like, chronically sleep deprived and hearing voices. I think one of the most memorable aspects of the High and Low documentary was the part that was about. I think he was at the Ritz. Oh, yes, he was at the Ritz. He had, like, a mental breakdown slash bender, where he got in the elevator naked and was in there for four hours. And whenever the elevator doors opened, he would pretend to be a lion and growl at the guests that were trying to get on the elevator.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. And the president of Christian Dior at the time had to go get him out of the elevator and I think pay for either that guest who saw him naked in the elevator or perhaps a whole floor of guests as an apology. Again, not justifying any of this behavior.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. And drunk words or sober thoughts.

[Lauren Garrone]

Just giving context and also explaining that I think it's funny that Anna Wintour is like, no one knows the full story. It's like, lady, you push forth a documentary. So we did know the full story.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think she meant that more broadly, though. And it's true. We all sit here judging people based on the little fragments of information that we have about them. And a lot of us aren't perfect and have maybe done some fucked up, regrettable things in our lives. I'm not talking about me. I am perfect.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, moi?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm perfect. Just kidding.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it really comes down to a conversation about, is it worth having this exhibition when John Galliano is living versus doing this posthumously, like with Karl Lagerfeld? Because this conversation did come up for the Lagerfeld Met exhibition, where a lot of his bad behavior, not to this degree, but a lot of his fat phobic comments came back into light in the press.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're both fucking assholes, clearly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I don't know how many creative geniuses who are great people, I wish both could exist together. But it kind of bears out in the creative world that those two things kind of can't coexist.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I don't even think this is limited to fashion designers. I think generally speaking, artists are very complicated, fucked up people. But I also don't want the Met to then take down a Caravaggio painting or something because he's a literal murderer. I don't want the public to decide what I can and can't see based on the life of the artist.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's interesting because I think this conversation that's been happening increasingly every year with the Met Gala is this idea that the chronically online public wants a say in what the Costume Institute exhibition is going to be. And that's just not how things work. And that's sort of my feeling about this, which is there are powers that be far beyond our reach who have wanted this to happen going back a decade.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And maybe they thought they had earned some goodwill with their more recent exhibitions. Right. Because last year's show, the Superfine exhibition, was all about black dandies. During the pandemic, they did those two shows that were more broadly about American fashion, but certainly emphasized POC designers more than the Costume Institute would have done if that show was in the 90s, for example.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, an ungenerous read of this is that Andrew Bolton was like, look, I did three woke exhibits. Like, let me do my one problematic designer one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly. I'm sure they thought about it in that way.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Dearest Listener, One morning recently I was sitting having a peaceful cup of coffee. My son crawled around on the rug. It was a perfect morning really, until in a split second I took my eye off said coffee and my son stood up and knocked the coffee off the table, making it spill all over our rug. That's when I knew it was time to get a tumble rug. If you have kids or pets, you know, rugs basically become grass ground zero for every spill, stain and disaster. I had resisted the idea of a washable rug for a long time because I thought I would be sacrificing style for function. But this was my breaking point. And luckily Tumble has very chic rugs. Tumble rugs feature a proprietary spill proof surface that causes liquids to bead up on top of the rug.

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[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's a confluence of events. Okay. I think it is doing more, for lack of a better phrase, woke exhibits in recent years. I feel like they earn doing this and also this has not been confirmed just yet but if I was putting money on Kalshee or Polymarket, maybe I'll start this bet. I'm gonna guess that Zara, who is the current employer of John Galliano, is going to underwrite this exhibition.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Very possible. I don't see a downside to them doing that.

[Lauren Garrone]

They have their corporate backer, they have goodwill, or at least I guess they thought goodwill from the last few exhibitions.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I can also see a world where they find a Jewish and an Asian co chair. Oh, for the optics of it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Now, that's interesting. You're right. The co chairs and the corporate sponsor has not been announced yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, a possibility. We'll see.

[Lauren Garrone]

So a lot of our fashion mothers, our fashion cool aunts, had thoughts about this, mostly in their substacks. Can we discuss Dana Thomas's substack?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah. Love Dana Thomas. Her substack is an essential read. And she has been reporting on this rumored Galliano show for a long time. She actually broke this story months ago.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right. And she wrote the book Gods and Kings, which is about the rise and fall of Alexander McQueen and John Galliano. So she has some feelings about this. My favorite part of her substack is a little bit bitchy, but quite funny where she's talking about how there's a part in the press release that talks about how it's going to feature a lot of John Galliano's ephemera from his early days. And she goes, that's so interesting, because I wrote in my book that his initial backers from the 80s and early 90s lost all of his ephemera. You know who actually has a lot of Galliano press clippings?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Oh, me.

[Lauren Garrone]

And it's so weird. Andrew Bolton hasn't contacted me yet. Interesting. Interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I thought that was funny. I'd love to see her personal archives. But then I was really interested to see, right before we sat down to record, a New York Times op ed came out that she wrote about how this show should not happen.

[Lauren Garrone]

And she too has taken the stance that his work warrants a show, just not when he's alive. So it's like, so you do think that the show should happen?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's interesting coming from someone who spent five years writing a book about Galliano who clearly thinks that his work is important, that he's someone that should be studied, that he's a sort of seminal figure in modern fashion history.

[Lauren Garrone]

And we should also note this book came out after Galliano's cancellation. The book was released in 2015. So she does feel that his life warranted her spending years researching it to put in a book. But not Enough to have an exhibition.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think it's really interesting because I wouldn't expect that that would be her perspective. You can think he's a horrible asshole piece of shit.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, when you take her op ed that that came out today, and then you pair it next to her substack, which came out a few days ago, it's like, do you not want this exhibition to happen because Andrew Bolton hasn't called you yet? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I would like to know. But respect to Dana and all of the work that she has done on this particular subject. We will be reading Gods and Monsters for an upcoming book club episode.

[Lauren Garrone]

It feels a little weird to want to fan cast the red carpet, but I can't help it. I must.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Who's gonna be brave enough to wear the homeless collection?

[Lauren Garrone]

Here's the thing, though. What has become so difficult when we fan cast the Met Gala red carpet is we always point out the obvious good references, and then no one does them, I think, because they are the obvious ones.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's true. I think we will see certainly a lot of vintage. I think a lot of people will want wear vintage. I think we'll see people do full looks in a way that maybe we haven't seen before, where it's not just the outfit, it's also the hair and the glam, because the Runway images are so over the top and so perfect for the Met Gala that I can see people just going all in and being like it.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

One thing we didn't touch upon in why having a Galliana retrospective in 2027 made sense is if you remember, in 2024, or was it 2025, whatever year they wanted to do, or Andrew Bolton tried to do a Galliano exhibition. A lot of people showed up in Galliano, whether it was Kim Kardashian in Margiela or Zendaya in a vintage Galliano. I think it was for Dior. Was it Givenchy?

[Chelsea Fairless]

She did two looks, remember?

[Lauren Garrone]

I do remember. And that scared us. And thankfully, no one else has done two looks on the red carpet at the Met. Yes. But I don't know if the red carpet is going to be anticlimactic because we've had so many Galliano moments in recent years.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But not extreme ones. Not on the level of the Met Gala.

[Lauren Garrone]

That is true. I agree with you. I do hope that people reference Pat McGrath's amazing work with Galliano. When I think about the beauty looks, I specifically think about the spring summer 2003 collection with that almost Kabuki makeup.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Lauren Garrone]

Now, this is not gonna happen, but it would be cool if it did. And perhaps the gowns I'm about to reference are going to be in the exhibition. But if Kate Moss and Gwen Stefani showed up in their wedding dresses.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think that would be a great move for Gwen Stefani. Kate Moss. I hope she does something different. But that Gwen Stefani wedding dress still just lives rent free in my mind. We need to see her in it again.

[Lauren Garrone]

If I had to guess, because I do believe. I think it was the VA did a wedding exhibition. I think her gown was in it. It has made the exhibition rounds. I don't know if Gwen Stefani, currently married to Blake Shelton, wants to wear her wedding dress when she was married to Gavin Rossdale.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, well, if we can't get that, I think the better version would be Celine Dion wearing the backwards pantsuit again, if we're doing repeats.

[Lauren Garrone]

Speaking of repeats, what if we got Sarah Jessica Parker's return to the Met Gala red carpet in the newsprint dress?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think she's doing that.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't think so either. But that's why we fan cast the red carpet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I think that she will be back. I think that this designer will get her back.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know. I could see her sitting this one out. I think there will be a lot of bias cut dresses, which is a dress style that he is known for for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I feel like people have to go more extreme than that. Like, I'm sure like Laur and Santo Domingo will show up in like the perfect, like vintage bias cut dress that isn't some crazy theatrical thing. But I think most people will really want that wow factor which you actually can get from this man.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes,

[Podcast Host/Producer]

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[Lauren Garrone]

It'll be interesting to see who the other big brands are that buy tables at the Galliano retrospective because last year it was very big on Saint Laurent. I don't know if he will buy in. Will Galliano's former employer lvmh.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Will Dior have a big table or

[Lauren Garrone]

will they sit this one out?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think they will definitely be attending

[Lauren Garrone]

for sure because Galliano was at Jonathan Anderson's first couture show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, yeah. And they also showed video clips from his old collections ahead of, I think. Was it the first couture show or was it just his first women's ready to wear show? I forget. But they're not shying away from the fact that Galliana was at the helm of this brand for so many years and really helped to define the way we think about Dior in the modern era. Post Christian Dior, obviously.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sorry. Yves Saint Laurent.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I really hope that someone goes full Princess Lucretia, like hair, glam hoop skirt, potentially, like running up the steps. Could be amazing. I feel like Elle Fanning might be able to rise to this challenge. We shall see. I also hope that Addison Rae wears something incredibly stupid from one of those like Y2K Dior collections that just like wasn't that formal. You know, like that one show that was all like striped thigh highs and like little micro shorts.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know what designer I definitely think will be attending and who could attend with Addison Rae would be Mark Jacobs.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

Because Marc Jacobs, a contemporary of John Galliano, but someone who loves wearing other designers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. And I'm so excited to see all of these designers rip off Galliano with impunity. It's going to be great.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm looking for this quote that was also in the New York Times article that Anna Wintour said. Said, which I think is so true about Galliano. Right. Designers dream of changing the world with a single collection. John has done it over and over again. And I think our ability to call out these iconic moments from his collections that have happened decade after decade point to that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. And also he just did it again. Like that Margiela couture show is still the best fashion show that all of us have seen for a really long time. Will someone finally wear the merkin? I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, here's hoping Gwendolyn Christie does.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I would love to see it, but somehow I don't think it's likely.

[Lauren Garrone]

No one's brave enough.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No one's brave enough. Also, I don't know if Andrew and Anna would like the amount of attention that that one look would obviously get.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or would they? It's like, ooh, good, good. Less people are talking about Galliano the man, more people are talking about his work, his market.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Those are some stellar outfits we hope will be on the Met Gala red carpet.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

But Chelsea, let's talk about some outstanding

[Lauren Garrone]

outfits that happened this past week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We obviously need to discuss the fact that Meg Stalter copied Carrie's much memed dominatrix look from Sex and the City. I believe she wore it on Watch what Happens Live or On the Way to Watch what Happens Live.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, her and Paul down seem to be on some sort of guerilla marketing the Emmys campaign because did you see that? They recreated The Carolyn Bassett JFK Jr. Park fight called a paparazzi, I assume. Called a paparazzi and submitted the photos to Dumois.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's strange timing because hacks is over, but it's not close enough to the final awards season for hacks either.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I mean, the Emmys are coming up

[Lauren Garrone]

and they're all nominated. I wonder if Emmy's voting is closing soon. Or it could just be that Paul Downs is in New York work and Meg Stalter was like, let's just do some bits.

[Chelsea Fairless]

These are people that are down to clown, clearly.

[Lauren Garrone]

But the Carrie reference is so specific. They recreated the seed where she shows up at Big's place with the whip in her mouth and goes, well, laugh. It's a joke.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The writing crop, yes. Specifically, it is funny and very self aware because Meg Stalter has been doing these very stunty conceptual red carpet looks. And Carrie also does that. Right. She's dressed like a dominatrix she's dressed like a French woman delivering Le Big Mac. You know, she also loves to clown and dress up and do a bit.

[Lauren Garrone]

So you're saying Meg is a Carrie?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Absolutely a Carrie, yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think a couple months ago, she showed up on Seth Meyers acting as if she was the one who stole Madonna's Coachella clothing, which. Have they still not found that clothing?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think they found it. I think we would know if they had.

[Lauren Garrone]

There's just some gay in a bunker who will never come out now because he knows the Madonna fans will kill him.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We will recognize that Confessions outfit.

[Lauren Garrone]

We know that mid 2000s era post Tom Ford Gucci.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, I also want to discuss Gabriette's wedding looks.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, this happened a few weeks ago, but there were just these incredible photos from their wedding that was released. That makes me want to get married again.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I continue to not get Matty Healy,

[Lauren Garrone]

but she looks incredible. And they do look like they fck.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Totally.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They look like they f. This is, like, one of the best celebrity bridal looks I've seen in a long time. And I feel like celebrity bridal looks are getting, like, increasingly crazy and increasingly showy. And this one was just. It was just perfect. It was designed by fecal matter.

[Lauren Garrone]

They're fecal mattering everywhere.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They really are killing it. We make fun of the name, but they have created some of the most important looks of the year, when I think about it.

[Lauren Garrone]

And they designed three looks for Gabriette, which was featured in a Vogue video where she did her last fitting in Paris.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

And her wedding dress.

[Lauren Garrone]

I didn't immediately clock the reference, but as soon as she said she was inspired by Winona Ryder's costuming in Dracula, I'm like, oh, that's what that is?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. The wedding dress had a dropped waist and this incredible kind of ruching over the hips. The silhouette was very akin to a gown that Winona Ryder wears in that movie. In the sleeve also, it looked like very Victorian Bella Pock vibes, but like. Like, more aligned with something that, like, Vivian Westwood would do or something spooky. Spooky. Deconstructed. Really amazing. But I actually thought that her afterparty look was even cooler, which was, like, this insane, ruffly sort of tailcoat that she wore with these, like, cropped little flares and, like, a little top hat. Very Galliano.

[Lauren Garrone]

I was also thinking of Carrie when Burger makes fun of her for her

[Chelsea Fairless]

tiny hat, but she just really went for it. Good for her.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also good for her for getting that Jimmy Choo check for a wedding themed collection campaign that she started. And then instead of wearing Jimmy Choo for her wedding shoes, she wore these insane curved Christian Louboutin but fecal matter ified Christian Louboutin heels.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's really impressive that they have created an instantly recognizable shoe in such a short amount of time. Time good for them. And speaking of which, we should also talk about the fecal matter Zendaya look from the Odyssey press tour.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, I believe it was at the New York premiere. She dressed as an angel.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Gorgeous, classically gorgeous in the show. It read is more gothic just because of the casting and the overall vibe. But like because the hair had this sort of pre Raphaelite sort of look, it ended up looking like classical art more than anything.

[Lauren Garrone]

She looks very ethereal. Obviously they're referencing the Athena statue as she plays Athena in the Odyssey. Or as we noted last week, woman that just looks disapprovingly at Matt Damon for three hours.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh my God. Poor Law Roach. I hope he gets a vacation after this. And Zendaya as well, cuz she went back to back. I mean her and Tom Holland had back to back press tours of the Odyssey and then once that stopped, it was the new Spider man film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think they're the only ones that are like actually working. Yeah, I just feel like there's not that much going on right now. Well, aside from Spider man in the Odyssey.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, yes, I mean, I would say her, Tom Holland and Robert Pattinson are basically the only people making movies right now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Other than of course the Sex Purge film, which guys, I think we need to see it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Still don't know what it's called.

[Lauren Garrone]

One night only.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I do want to give Law Roach a shout out also for this one look that he orchestrated for Zendaya to wear during the Spider man press tour, which is a recreation of a dress that Willi Smith designed for a Spider man comic. Essentially. Or like a paper doll.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, I believe it was. In 1987. Willi Smith designed various looks for a paper doll, Mary Jane, which is the character that Zendaya plays. And they recreated one of those dresses.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, he got Laquan Smith to do his sort of take. It wasn't an exact replica.

[Lauren Garrone]

No. Which people were mad about.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I appreciate the level of niche of this reference is incredible.

[Lauren Garrone]

I believe this is the fourth Spider man film that both Zendaya and Tom Holland have been in. So it's like you gotta get pretty niche at this point on the red carpet. If you're Doing themed red carpets.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

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[Lauren Garrone]

about because that was the meal I

[Podcast Host/Producer]

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[Lauren Garrone]

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[Podcast Host/Producer]

Thanks to Forkful for sponsoring this episode.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, can we talk about Billie Eilish because this week we saw the first photos of her with her Sylvia Plath transformation for this upcoming Bell Jar movie that Sarah Pauley is directing.

[Lauren Garrone]

And if you remember Fuckettes, we were a bit apoplectic at the news that Billie Eilish would play the on screen version of Sylvia Plath. The character has a different name but it's Esther Greenwood. Esther Greenwood. But it is basically Sylvia Plath path so you would imagine that a character would look like the author.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

And guess what?

[Lauren Garrone]

We're eating our word. She does. She looks great.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She really does. The glam is really, really impressive because Billie Eilish is someone that naturally has Instagram face. Like, I don't think she's achieved this through fillers, you know, like a lot of other girls, but she just like has that look like she's staring into an iPhone.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, her face has the proportions of someone who spent a lot of money at a med spa to get, but she just naturally has it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But they complet completely offset her features by using lipstick in a way to really sort of minimize the scale of her lips and also just removing like her eyebrows, basically, or making her eyebrows so much lighter to the point that it like completely changes the look of her entire face.

[Lauren Garrone]

They've also changed her hair, which we typically have seen as black. Or there was that blonde bombshell era and it is instead this auburn reddish hue, which also has a very transformative effect.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like you initially sent me the photo and I did not clock immediately that it was Billie Eilish.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So good for them. Okay, I want to discuss one more fashion thing, which is the newly announced collaboration between Denim Tears and the estate of Andre Leontelli. This is the first collab that anyone has done with his estate. And they released a lookbook this week which featured pieces from the collaboration mixed in with other new Denim Tears pieces. We don't have clear photographs of every piece in this collection, but you can definitely get a general sense of the line. And I thought it was really fucking cool. I think that Tremaine approached this from a really interesting angle, which is leaning more into the showiness of Andre and the sort of eclecticism of his more casual looks, his street style looks, rather than this sort of more upscale Chicago stuff.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's an approachable Andre Leon Talley.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They made fake fur trapper hats. There is a graphic te with a photo of Andre and Lee Radwell, which is incredible. It was like a giant photo print of this one paparazzi photo of them on the Upper east side.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Is it the Upper east side?

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm looking at it now. Or is it in Bryant park, kind of in between fashion shows? Either way, you need it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I need it. And this piece is a three way collab between Denim Tears, Billionaire Boys Club and the estate of Andre Leontelli. Because in the paparazzi photo that they use, he is wearing this Billionaire Boys club, like knit zip up that has like this giant dollar sign on the back of it. And they also recreated that with Billionaire Boys Club for this collaboration, which I thought was fun in such a insane detail tail.

[Lauren Garrone]

So I'm seeing that this collection is going to release across five separate drops throughout the season, with Drop One launching on Friday, August 14, 11am Eastern. Set your clock, Chel.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I don't know how much of this is actually for me. I appreciate it, but I think I may be stepping away with the T shirt. I don't know if I'm the person that should be wearing the tea with the rhinestone NAACP logo, which I feel is another highlight of this collection.

[Lauren Garrone]

Fair, fair. But who knows where that shirt is dropping? Is it in the first drop? Is it in the fifth drop?

[Chelsea Fairless]

We'll see. But I thought this was cool. Okay, what else?

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, you're indulging me this week by allowing me to take a few minutes of the podcast to tell you about some influencer drama in a segment we're calling Lauren's Influencer News Corner.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great. Bring it on. I don't care about any of these bitches, but. But I will listen.

[Lauren Garrone]

Thank you. I appreciate that. So Nara Smith was recently on Call Her Daddy, and the big highlight of this interview was this moment where she distances herself from the trad wife movement. Before I get into this, I just want to note, I do not understand the rhyme or reason of how Call Her Daddy books guests, because sometimes it is around a press tour, like Olivia Wilde went on Call Her Daddy when the invite was coming. Coming out. But sometimes there are just people on there who have nothing to promote.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she does have a cookbook coming out, right? I don't know much about her, but I know that much.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I guess. So.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She has a cookbook coming out and she's also right coming off of the reveal of her child's cancer diagnosis.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. So you do know a little about Nara Smith.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's about as much as I know that in the monotone voice. I have seen her content and I do appreciate, appreciate it, honestly, how extreme it is and how funny it is.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right. So that's kind of at the center of what has gone the most viral from this interview, which is Nara Smith discusses to Alex Cooper her confusion of being made the poster child for the tradwife movement, which a lot of people are mad because they feel she's being hypocritical and they're right and they're wrong.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she's too cunty to be a trad wife in the traditional sense. I mean that in terms of, like, how fabulous she looks.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also by virtue of the fact that she's even making content and making money from that content and therefore contributing Financially, to the household.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

By virtue of all of that, she's not a trad wife. However, she did tread into those visuals and that language. So she can't be shocked that she was made the poster child of of this movement because she definitely was using a lot of dog whistles to attract that audience, male and otherwise. But also, anyone that genuinely thought she was a trad wife is kind of an idiot, because by virtue of her doing this and being a content creator, she's not.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In addition to her being too fab to be a trad wife, she's also too weird to be a trad wife. Like, she's a fucking weird weirdo. I mean that as a compliment.

[Lauren Garrone]

She is a weirdo. But also she's married to Lucky Blue Smith, who grew up in the Mormon religion. Many people believe that they are Trump supporters, so there you go. But she lives in Connecticut and she now seldom makes videos because people commented and were mean to her. And her daughter has cancer now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that's awful.

[Lauren Garrone]

But will we buy the cookbook?

[Chelsea Fairless]

The COVID of the cookbook is included. Incredible.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I wonder what recipes are in this

[Lauren Garrone]

cookbook, because part of the thing, and we've talked about Nara Smith before, is there's a bit of performance art. And when you say that she's very funny, I think what you're referring to are things like my children wanted pigs

[Podcast Host/Producer]

in a blanket, so I made pigs in the blanket from scratch.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, a lot of the food she's making for her children would take six hours. She's not actually making them that for lunch. It's a big bit. But are those recipes in this cookbook?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

Clearly I didn't do enough research for this influencer corner.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do feel like with the COVID though, she is aping like Leila Gohar a bit. And her sort of absurd look, I guess, or the absurdity that she's sort of brought to food styling and things of that nature. But I'd be curious to see what the inside of the book looks like.

[Lauren Garrone]

Is the inside as aesthetic as the outside side? Okay, moving on. The Cut recently wrote an article about how Nantucket is revolting against influencers, Sort of. So there's a woman named Sylvia whose grandfather started a store in Nantucket called Sylvia's Antiques that has been open since 1927. And Sylvia recently posted a sign in her store, a wooden sign in the antique shop that said no influencers. This image went viral. It appeared on Reddit, it appeared in other pieces of social media, and a lot of People felt that this was in reference to a woman named Paige Lorenz who is an influencer and has her own brand called Dairy Boy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What's Paige Lorenz's, like, worldview or aesthetic

[Lauren Garrone]

or what's her vibe just being, you

[Chelsea Fairless]

know, like in a Gwyneth Paltrow mold or in a Kim Kardashian mold or, you know, in a sort of a hybrid?

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I would say she's more in the Hailey Bieber mold.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Okay.

[Lauren Garrone]

Kind of a clean, definitely aloe, a very clean girl aesthetic who fetishizes a East coast sensibility, let's say.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Okay.

[Lauren Garrone]

She has a brand named Dairy Boy that sells apparel, and it's very much that. Like, I'm wearing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, apparel?

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And not like, ice cream sandwiches and popsicles.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, it's Dairy Boy and it's apparel. That's why I was a little stilted when you were like, what's her vibe? Because there is this kind of collapsing of influencer aesthetics where it's like, she's Hailey Bieber ish, and there's a clean girl aloe Matcha vibe. But then also it's a lot of shilling nightgowns to go grocery shopping with.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. So it's a little more like Cottagecore.

[Lauren Garrone]

Cottagecore. But we're still doing Pilates and we're still, you know, jacked.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To each their own.

[Lauren Garrone]

Anyway, she started her first retail location of Dairy Boy, and guess where she. Nantucket. So people including Paige Lorenz, who, through this article, I learned I've been confusing Paige Lorenz and Taylor Lorenz as the same person. It also gets confusing because Paige Lorenz gives a quote in this article.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Or Taylor Lorenz.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, sorry, I'm getting them confused. Yes, Taylor Lorenz gives a quote in this Paige Lorenz article.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay.

[Lauren Garrone]

Anyway, people, including Paige Lorenz thought that that no influencer sign was. Was a dig at her because there have been lines down the block to get into her store. Dairy Boy, which, as you've noted, does not sell dairy products.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, did I tell you that I encountered a share lotto truck in the wild?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. Cher's gelato brand that we've never tasted and we don't believe exists.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was parked outside the Abbey.

[Lauren Garrone]

Of course.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of course. Where else would the share lotto truck be be? I have to say I was disappointed with the quality of the gelato. There was a separation between the sort of chocolate and the creamy, like, which, as I understand, is like a big no, no when it comes to gelato. Like, it shouldn't feel Gritty, like sand. Like chocolate sand.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, no, no, no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I came, I saw, I ate. Not super impressed. But Cher has her other virtue.

[Lauren Garrone]

Shoes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Clearly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay, so Paige Lorenz wrote on Sylvia's post, again, remember, Sylvia is the woman who posted the no influencer sign. Paige Lorenz wrote, if you call yourself a feminist but proudly put up a no influencer sign, it's worth asking who you are attempting to delegitimize and why. Oh God.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, yeah, play the woman card, why don't you? As if there aren't like horrible male influencers everywhere also. Especially like gay male influencers, like ravaging antique stores for stuff to put in their like apartments with 20,000 lamps.

[Lauren Garrone]

And there has been an over tourism problem in Nantucket as it is a small island for a long time. It predates social media, but social media has made it so much worse. And now adding the line ification of a pop up store is not what this town needs needed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. I personally can't imagine taking a sign that personally.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, and it's also having the opposite effect because I saw that sign on social media. So now people are going into Sylvia's Antiques, not to buy antiques, but just to take a photo of the old timey no influencer sign.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So Streisand effect.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, perfectly put, Chelsea. Now the last news article I'm going to discuss is the third most story on Vulture right now, which is an article called the Influencer Response Recession, which is less about the cost of living crisis hitting the influencer set and more about how influencers can't post cute photos of their outfits anymore. And so they pivoted to posting rage bait. The main focus of this article is a woman named Audrey Peters, whose content the last few years, which I have seen has been like, what Hermes bag

[Podcast Host/Producer]

was I offered in Paris?

[Lauren Garrone]

And like what Chanel shoes should I wear to dinner? But as she phrases it in the article, you can't just be showing Macha Pilates aloe anymore anymore. So now she posts this rage bait videos where she orders every single meal out. So it starts with like it's 11:20 in the morning and I ordered Starbucks. And because she had it delivered and all the delivery fees, something that would have been, I don't know, $17 is $35.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

So it's her showing hundreds and hundreds of dollars of takeout that she spends, you imagine, every day. And this got a lot of engagement and then it got people to make videos about her videos.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So she's a genius.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, she does this because this Gets great engagement. So now it's become a miniseries that she does. Because really what the influencer recession is is that brands are having increasingly stricter metrics for engagement. So these influencers have to juice their engagement to be able to retain the brand deal skills.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

The article is basically about overall where we are in the attention economy and how, as they phrase it, an unposed photo with butter yellow type, as they call it, does better than a fully edited video. But the article is kind of confusing because at the same time, in different parts of the article, they discuss the fact that people don't want to see other people in cute outfits or posting about getting another Chanel bag. They want to learn something from the content they're seeing. Right. But it shouldn't be too produced.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I've heard that that that's the content with the highest engagement is content that is entertaining and also educational, which wasn't always the case. Yeah, and I get it. The same formula that worked a decade ago on Instagram does not work now. It is a video platform. It is not an image platform.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, and that is partially how Instagram wants it. But the article ends with. With. In an age of the endless scroll, people want to feel like the hours spent on their phones are not in fact a waste of time, rather a means of gaining access to smart and cool people who lead interesting lives off camera.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I would love if my algorithm would prioritize that more. I feel like my algorithm still sucks, especially on Instagram.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, and also Instagram went way words for me when we lost the chronological

[Chelsea Fairless]

post and that was like a decade ago at this point. Look, it's completely different. It's a news aggregate gator. It's not about sharing photos of your outfit or your meal or whatever like it used to be.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. And Taylor Lorenz offers a quote for this article as well, where she discusses how we're starting to see how AI is going to affect social media. Specifically influencers, where you used to be able to influence of like these are the products I shop. Here's you know, my skincare routine. And effectively chatgpt Claude was whatever language model you use, if you use them, can generate that information already. So then it's like, well then now what do you do?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I'm still interested in what products people use for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

I did send you a portion of the article where Audrey Peters starts discussing her least favorite thing, which is linking in Instagram stories. And then she talks about her strategy for doing that, which is like a DM or like a cutoff page. Like a cutoff screenshot of a product that cuts off the price. That's all ways that she juices engagement.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. So people click to see the price. I see influencers doing this all the time. I don't follow very many of them, but I've definitely noticed that.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's just interesting to think that there is a strategy behind those things. But of course there is. And she was doing it because a brand that was considering her for some spongon wanted to see her metrics.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

This is partially social media platforms, forums, faults, most specifically Instagram, as we have had to do this as well. The fact that Instagram has existed for 15 years, they've shifted to more of a business platform 10 years ago to Audrey Peters point of why she was doing this. Just to take you behind the curtain slightly. We literally have to screenshot our analytics. You can't make a nice deck anymore because you could fake your analytics. So we often have to send screen caps, as I'm sure other influencers do, so you can prove like actually we're not lying. This is our engagement engagement. But Instagram makes it so hard and it's so unaesthetic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

So I'm often sending 17 different screenshots. That information which they know that people at a certain level need for brand deals. It's not all on the same page.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Totally.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They've also made it so now analytics only go back three months, I think.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right. Anyway, if anyone listening to this podcast works for Instagram. Just a suggestion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You should be able to to just have an auto generated report emailed to you or something.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, that's it for me in influencer corner. Maybe a segment we'll never do again.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I liked it. I like being abreast of these things without actually having to read anything.

[Lauren Garrone]

And likewise, I talked about what's going on in the influencer world. You're going to tell me a little bit about what's going on in the rebranding world.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, first of all, Us Weekly is no longer Weekly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Excuse me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Now, I can't find out anything about this online, but I saw someone post like the editor's letter from the current issue of Us Weekly. And it said, beginning with this issue, Us Weekly transitions to Us Magazine and moves to an every other week publication schedule. You'll also notice something new on our cover. We're retiring weekly from our logo. The US you love isn't going anywhere. We're simply making official what has already been true for years as the way we deliver entertainment has evolved beyond a weekly cadence. Our name is evolving too, reflecting a brand that now connects with you every day in real time.

[Lauren Garrone]

Are they soft launching that? Eventually they won't be a printed publication anymore.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's funny because I've noticed a change in US Weekly. It is now releasing covers like People magazine, where it is a shoot with a celebrity. Kyle McLaughlin actually had one pretty recently.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, we should note that what we know as millennials of a certain age, known as Us Weekly, did already start out as US Magazine scene.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it started as us. That's what it used to be. Celebrity news. It was more like Entertainment Weekly, slash movie line, if you remember that magazine.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, Premiere magazine, Movie line, Entertainment Weekly. Yes. It was more about splashy celebrity coverage. And then somewhere, I think it was Janice Min, when she took over the magazine, made it a weekly tabloid. It was trashier than People, but more elevated than Star and the natural National Enquirer, which was a genius move.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Completely genius. I forget when they made that switch. It would have been the early 2000s, I would think, because it really did coincide with the whole Britney Lindsay era of celebrity.

[Lauren Garrone]

In 2000, it converted into a full weekly publication format. So, yeah, 25 plus years rip to

[Chelsea Fairless]

the greatest magazine ever.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Ever.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, it feels like in that statement you read, the subtext is like the news we print weekly is old already. So just go to our website.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, totally. And that wasn't always the case. You used to have to read Us Weekly to see the most important paparazzi photos.

[Lauren Garrone]

Honestly, the magazines that I'm buying on ebay are quite literally old US Weekly magazines from my youth.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Specifically the ones about the Winona Ryder trial.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know someone who is. Is a librarian. Not Nikki that was trying to track down see if anyone had a full set of Us Weekly. No one does. It, like, doesn't exist. That's one of those magazines that, like, will get lost to the sands of time because no one was really diligent about archiving it or seeing how influential it was. I mean, I'm sure US magazine has everything at their headquarters, but I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, now I'm just looking at Us Magazine lot. What do we got? Ooh, yeah, you're right. It's usually you can get a bunch of these magazines from people who are obsessed with one particular person, like a celebrity, like Madonna or Celine Dion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. But to get a full set would be like. I mean, it's possible, certainly, but it would take someone years.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sorry, move on. I'm just looking at this lot of us weekly magazines from 2002, 2003, 2004 for all around Britney Spears, including this cover, I assume from 2002 that says sex tell all. Britney versus the beast. And the beast in question is Fred Durst.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, moving on. I want to talk about these new Gap fragrances. Gap has re released a bunch of fragrances that they first manufactured back in the 90s. Scents like heaven grass, om Lauren. I'm sure that you remember these.

[Lauren Garrone]

Of course I do.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They were in these very sort of of distinctive frosted bottles with little illustrations that pertained to the theme of the fragrance. They had these brushed aluminum caps. It was very 90s, very fabulous. For some reason, they have chosen to reissue these fragrances, but they have completely changed the bottle and they have also reformulated the fragrance. What the fuck? Who is this for?

[Lauren Garrone]

You put in a link to the alert article. I assume you read it. They did get the original people who created the scents back to reformulate the scents. Does that do anything for you?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It does a little for me. But like, why? Like, either just reissue them or if you want to make more contemporary perfumes that appeal to a mass audience, that appeal to a young audience sense than just make new perfumes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Here's what I find bizarre about the rebrand. And for those who have not seen the original bottles, if you're familiar with the Global Cafe aesthetic, it very much mirrors that a very niche design philosophy from the early 90s, mid-90s. Here's what I don't understand, which is like, the fact that people even know about that aesthetic and the fact that a late 90s, early 2000s graphic design style has become popular again. I don't understand why you just wouldn't do that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's deeply weird. Like, I would think that the move would be to like, reissue them in their 90s packaging.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Make it a limited edition thing just around the holidays so you and me and everyone our age can just buy them for each other for Christmas, Hanukkah. And then if you want to move into fragrances for real and make something that caters to like a gourmand obsessed Gen Z, Gen Alpha audience, then you can then do that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Come again? Is this because Gen Z and Gen Alpha love the bear?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, I do not understand that reference. But no, I mean, like the scents that are like vanillas and caramels, like.

[Lauren Garrone]

Got it, got it.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Okay.

[Lauren Garrone]

Smells not like pizza.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Thierry Mugler actually invented this category of perfume with angel, which I know you hate.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Sorry to my mom who would wear Angel. When I was a child.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But this is like all younger people want to wear. Not all younger people, and certainly not our more discerning listeners. But, like, it is a hugely popular type of fragrance right now.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I also personally am just so tired of Tuluma Frank products hotel design. Like, give me the retro futurism of the late 90s, early 2000s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I wish.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The bottle is very simple and soulless. It almost looks like it should be a nail polish and not a fragrance.

[Lauren Garrone]

You're right. It does look like a nail polish bottle.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It looks like one of those nail polish companies, like millennial nail polish companies that exists now. I just can't put my finger on it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Did you see the ad campaign with Victoria Peretti? I think that's her name. She.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

It is her close up of her face, and she's acting out on her face what each scent evokes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which feels very gap in the 90s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But it's weird because Gap just achieved that gap in the 90s vibe with that Hailey Bieber gene and with the marketing for that gene, which to go

[Lauren Garrone]

pivot a little bit into influencer corner for a second. All I got were videos of women who were like, these sheets don't make me look like Hailey Bieber.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, no shit. Shirley Block. It's a pair of jeans from the Gap. At the end of the day, it's

[Lauren Garrone]

an oversized pair of jeans. Going back to Demna. What is the sizing he's trying to do? Petite but strong.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, it's like tall and strong and.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Petite and they wouldn't say thin, but.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, I'm like, small and strong.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. On a related note, another horrible rebrand happened recently that really no one is talking about, which is L'. Occitane. It is the 50th anniversary of this

[Lauren Garrone]

brand, so they decided to ruin it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They literally decided to change their packaging so that everything they make looks like a dupe of l'. Occitane. And I found this out by going into the store and experiencing it all firsthand.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's so funny you say that, because I literally bought a hand cream at Whole Foods called. Called La Maison de Provence because it looked like a dupe of 90s L'. Occitane.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which is like very kind of shabby chic, cottage core like that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's not shabby chic. It's more like classical French packaging. Pharmacy packaging, even.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Heritage, but not super high end.

[Lauren Garrone]

But this is what is puzzling to me about both of these rebrands, which which is culture has caught up to the aesthetic that these brands have been doing for years. So just keep doing that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The fact that they decided to not keep doing that is actually the craziest thing. It blows my mind. Like, I'm actually speechless. Not only did they redesign the packaging, they also changed the name of the almond shower oil. It's like a different product now. And I'm like, babe, that's your flagship product.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, that and your hand cream. If they change the. Of that hand cream, I'm out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

At least the hand cream still has the little circular graphic on it. It didn't get the full target makeover the way that the shower oil did.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. For those who haven't seen it, most l' Occitane products have physical paper label and they've just removed that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. It's now the type is printed directly on the bottle, which can look good, can look upscale. I feel like Necessary is an example of a company that does a good job of that without it looking cheap. But this is not that you know

[Lauren Garrone]

what it looks like. It looks like the miniatures you would get in a hotel.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, totally.

[Lauren Garrone]

Where it's like, this is going in a hotel. We're not going to pay the money to have like paper labels, all the things.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. They also got rid of the embossing on the bottle. So the bottle just. Just looks like cheaper, more generic. Like it was something that was white labeled and not like a custom thing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Did they get bought by private equity recently? Because that would explain these choices.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. It's not even that the new type offends me that much. I think it's just like the combination of all of these factors, the renaming, the sort of cheapness that comes with removing labels and embossing the cap looks cheaper. But did I still buy my almond shower oil?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't remember what it's called now, but I did.

[Lauren Garrone]

So in 2024, Blackstone and Goldman Sachs complete investment to support the privatization of l', Occitan. Meaning it was a publicly traded company that they brought private. So I do believe that these choices are kind of based on, I'm going to assume, corporate restructuring.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's crazy though, because if you need to move more products, like that is a marketing thing thing, not a packaging design thing. The packaging design was always good.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. But I'm sure they are looking to cut some corners and they felt that no one would have noticed, but they don't know that you exist. I don't mean that in an insulting way. But it's just sort of like, guess who noticed. Chelsea Fairless.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Literally everyone would notice. It is the most noticeable jump. And like, I don't know, I get the sense that this company attracts a lot of older customers. Like they don't want millennial branding on their, you know, like they don't care about that shit.

[Lauren Garrone]

The real test is, are the stores going to be redone to look like med spas? Then we will know that this wasn't just a cost saving measure, that this was a whole branding change.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. The store at the Century City Mall looks the same for now, but.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, speaking of a brand that got an overhaul, Coke looks completely different now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I guess, but I haven't seen it out in the wild. Have you?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

You?

[Lauren Garrone]

We should say the typography for Coke, they have not reformulated, as far as we know, our beloved fridge cigarette.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, they have redesigned the packaging and this was a global redesign. Coke looks very different. Depending on what country you're in now, it will all look the same, which makes sense. I don't understand why it was like that to begin with. But they are getting a lot of flack online for this redesign, which I, I don't totally agree with. To me they did a good job.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, there's a New York Times article about this where people have noted that this rebrand, specifically the typography of Coke looks very similar to Marboro.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But like, I don't really get that because it's like they didn't really change like the script, Coca Cola logo. The Marboro type face is the secondary typeface, not the primary type face face.

[Lauren Garrone]

Correct.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I don't see what the big deal is. Also it reminds you of Marlboro, the cuntest looking pack of cigarettes that exists.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, as the New York Times article notes, and I just said, I mean the joke now is people referring to Diet Coke as a fridge cigarette.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I see the vision and I support it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, eagle eyed typographers have noted that actually the Coke rebrand very different than the Marlboro typeface. And as someone that lives in a household with a man who does not only graphic design but specifically makes custom typefaces, this is all I heard about in my household this week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So he thinks they're like radically different and that people that think they're the same are like crazy.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. I was reading him this quote from James Edmondson who owns O no Type in San Jose, California, which when I said that Paul goes, oh, I know him. James Edmondson says observers are Drawing comparisons

[Podcast Host/Producer]

from brand memory, but not from font accident accuracy. While the better width type shares some similarities, Marlboro's Neo contact is far more

[Lauren Garrone]

condensed or compressed horizontally, he said. Additionally, the serifs of the current Marlboro logotype features devastatingly handsome slab serifs, substantial, terminal, smacked on with no curved transition or bracket. Koch serifs, on the other hand, are brackets. Every corner is slightly rounded. And Paul was just nodding his head. He goes, yep, yep, that's all true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. But to be fair, I think what people comparing it to is less the typeface that's on an actual pack of cigarettes and more the typefaces that they used in their advertising when you could still advertise for cigarettes, and also the

[Lauren Garrone]

colors that red and white put together. If you are a person of a certain age, you're right. Reminds you of the Marlboro billboards or ads you would see in magazines.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. And the whole, like, those kinds of typefaces, faces, and all the Coke branding, of course, it just reminds you of, like, America, because to me, that's what America is. It's Marlboro. And Coca Cola is like, the most, like, design wise, these are kind of our most iconic things.

[Lauren Garrone]

Two things that are slowly killing us. What's more American than that?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know, Okay.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have to say, I was a Coke Zero girl for years and years. I have now moved on to Dr. Pepper Zero Sugar.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But, yeah, that can looks like. I have to say it's.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know, if anyone could use a rebrand, it's Dr. Pepper.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Honestly, I'm over here with my mini Diet Coke can, which was noticeably absent from this rebrand. I guess they're not with Diet Coke.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean this in a complimentary way, but you D.C. heads are psychos.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, true. And I imagine that any rebrand of Diet Coke would be met with nothing but hatred and psychosis.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. All of you buying Diet Coke just to pour it out on the street.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, what?

[Lauren Garrone]

Isn't that when there was the big Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light controversy, the whole gag was that conservatives were buying Bud Light to just film themselves pouring it out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, right, okay. Yes, I understand the reference. That was one of our stupider moments in culture in the last decade.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, I think we've said it it all.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We've said it all. If you are wondering why we have not touched upon the darkest celebrity news story of our time, which, of course, is Perez Hilton, we will be releasing a VIP episode that discusses him and some other very dark celebrity news stories next week.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, as we've noted, sometimes there are certain pop culture stories that warrant paywall thoughts, and these are those. So we'll be releasing that episode early next week. Week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Until then, bye, guys.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Bye.