On Martha Stewart, Joker: Folie à Deux, Marc Jacobs

Summary

Podcast Summary: Every Outfit – "On Martha Stewart, Joker: Folie à Deux, Marc Jacobs"

Episode Details:

• Title: On Martha Stewart, Joker: Folie à Deux, Marc Jacobs
• Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni
• Release Date: November 15, 2024

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1. Welcome and Recent Events

The episode kicks off with Chelsea and Lauren catching up post their London tour. Lauren shares her struggles with jet lag, humorously attributing her foul mood to the misalignment of jet lag and daylight saving time.

• Chelsea Fairless [00:04]: "I spent $40,000 on shoes."
• Lauren Garroni [00:46]: "Watching the Martha Stewart documentary was very cathartic. I was like, yeah, be a bitch, Martha."

2. London Shows and Fan Interactions

Chelsea and Lauren reflect on their London shows, expressing joy over the magical experiences and the diverse fan interactions. They share amusing anecdotes about fans who have deeply integrated the podcast into their lives, including a humorous mention of fans getting tattoos inspired by the show.

• Chelsea Fairless [02:36]: "We met three women that gave birth listening to the podcast."
• Lauren Garroni [03:10]: "They need to be studied as part of a medical experiment, I think."

3. Announcement Skipped: Advertisement Break

The hosts briefly mention moving past an advertisement segment to dive into the episode's main topics.

4. "Sexiest Man Alive" Debate

Chelsea and Lauren delve into the controversy surrounding People Magazine's choice of John Krasinski as this year's Sexiest Man Alive. Lauren humorously points out the confusion between Krasinski, Chris Evans, and Ryan Reynolds, highlighting Lauren's own face blindness.

• Lauren Garroni [16:02]: "Do you think this man is attractive?"
• Chelsea Fairless [17:00]: "Okay, he's definitely way hotter, though."

5. Grammy Awards Discussion

The hosts analyze the recent Grammy nominations, spotlighting Beyoncé's 11 nominations and the surprising nods for artists like Kim Gordon. They critique the Recording Academy's choices, expressing disappointment over the lack of recognition for certain influential musicians.

• Chelsea Fairless [20:02]: "Charlie, they nominated Brat for Album of the Year. I was not expecting that."
• Lauren Garroni [23:04]: "It's so embarrassing because there's no Billie Eilish without a Kim Gordon."

6. Martha Stewart Documentary Analysis

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the Martha Stewart documentary. Chelsea and Lauren discuss Stewart's portrayal, her trial, and the complexities of her character. They commend the documentary's in-depth look at Stewart's life while critiquing its direction and selective storytelling.

• Lauren Garroni [28:38]: "It's worth having Netflix for a year just to watch this movie alone."
• Chelsea Fairless [33:14]: "I'm just obsessed with her is my major takeaway after watching this."

7. Review of "Joker: Folie à Deux"

Chelsea and Lauren transition to reviewing the much-anticipated sequel to "Joker." They express their disappointment with the film's nihilistic tone, disjointed plot, and Lady Gaga's musical contributions. The hosts draw parallels to other musicals and critique the film's attempt to blend dark themes with musical elements.

• Lauren Garroni [46:11]: "The film is so nihilistic. Towards the end, I got Zen about it."
• Chelsea Fairless [50:12]: "The whole movie is tied up in the events of the first movie."

8. Vogue's December Issue Featuring Marc Jacobs

The duo celebrates Marc Jacobs guest-editing the December issue of American Vogue. They commend Jacobs for bringing fresh energy and reverence for Vogue's legacy, highlighting the innovative cover choices and the inclusion of unique beauty editorials. The hosts express excitement for the new creative direction and its potential impact on future Vogue issues.

• Lauren Garroni [59:17]: "Marc Jacobs loves a figural female painter."
• Chelsea Fairless [62:15]: "The most exciting aspect of this issue for me is this singular Gregory Crewdon photo of Marc Jacobs."

9. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Topics

In their closing, Chelsea and Lauren express satisfaction with covering substantial pop culture topics and tease upcoming discussions, including their takes on forthcoming movies.

• Lauren Garroni [69:14]: "This felt good to have a lot of juicy pop culture stuff to talk about."
• Chelsea Fairless [69:23]: "Well, I think there are actually things that happened that we cared about which, you know, isn't always the case."

Notable Quotes:

• League of Extraordinary Women: "She volunteered that information, especially the Gone Girl esque letters to her husband about the affair that he was having." — Lauren Garroni [28:23]
• On Artistic Influence: "She didn't want to be a mom. She didn't like it. She wasn't particularly good at it." — Chelsea Fairless [35:24]
• On Fashion and Authenticity: "Her domesticity wasn't really for the male gaze. It really was her point of view for herself." — Lauren Garroni [34:42]

Conclusion:

This episode of "Every Outfit" seamlessly weaves through a tapestry of contemporary issues, from dissecting high-profile documentaries and film sequels to celebrating fashion milestones. Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni offer sharp insights, personal anecdotes, and candid opinions, making the discussion both engaging and enlightening for listeners eager to stay abreast of pop culture dynamics.

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Stay Tuned: New episodes are released every Friday, offering unabashed commentary on fashion and popular culture.

Transcript

[Chelsea Fairless]

I spent $40,000 on shoes.

[Lauren Garoni]

What's the matter, Morty? Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, it hasn't. Hi, I'm Lauren Garoni.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garoni]

And welcome back to another episode of the Every Outfit podcast. And we are back in person in my closet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I haven't seen you since London.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know. I've been gone. What's been happening?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, not much. How's your jet lag?

[Lauren Garoni]

Awful.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's why you're in such a foul mood.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, that and other things. Let's just say that watching the Martha Stewart documentary was very cathartic. I was like, yeah, be a bitch, Martha. No, but I've never experienced jet lag this badly before. I've almost been back for a week, and it has been seven days straight of, like, barely being able to make it to 9pm and up at 4 in the morning. And I cannot get out of this cycle. And I'm afraid this is just my life now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Aren't you, like, rising with the sun and shit?

[Lauren Garoni]

No, it's dark.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, okay. See, that's bad.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's the mixture of jet lag and daylight saving time. Because every evening I'm like, holy. It's 8pm and it's 4.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was talking about this with Carly the other day. Something's wrong. Someone's made a mistake. Like. Or something's happening, but, like, this isn't normal.

[Lauren Garoni]

But this happens every year.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, it doesn't. It's earlier this year. That's what I'm saying. It's earlier this year.

[Lauren Garoni]

Every year. It's so abrupt and shocking and so difficult to get used to.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, it's horrible. It's hell.

[Lauren Garoni]

But.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But we had such a great time in London. Thank you to everyone that came out to those shows. It was so magical for us.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's hard to gauge how the podcast is metabolized. I mean, we have the Patreon, and there's a lovely comment section and chat that goes on there. But the only other outward reflection we have of the podcast are the Apple podcast reviews. And those are usually bad, so it's really hard for me to judge. Like, should we just call this quits? Do people actually like this? And getting to meet and see the people who listen to our podcast throughout this tour has been very invigorating.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Absolutely. Also, there is some, like, crazy people at those shows. We met three women that gave birth listening to the podcast, Separate women.

[Lauren Garoni]

And we're not talking about. I was in labor for 18 hours. And I went through your. And just like that. Reviews. It's like, no. As a baby came into this world, they heard our voices.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They need to be studied as, like, part of a medical experiment, I think. But I'm very flattered and I do love that.

[Lauren Garoni]

The other surprising thing is when people tell us that they listen to us while they run.

[Chelsea Fairless]

How?

[Lauren Garoni]

And I always ask, do they listen at double the speed?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, like, if I'm running, like, I have to be listening to Nicki Minaj or something.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I need pulsating Berlin techno.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Or it's not happening, by the way.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's not happening. I would never run.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I mean, I would never run. I hate running. It's awful.

[Lauren Garoni]

But I think the most heartening thing that we got to experience during the meet and greet was the fact that there's a group of women who all separately listen to our podcast, had bought individual tickets. And I don't know where this happened. Maybe our subreddit that we're terrified exists. They started a WhatsApp chat with each other and are now genuinely friends and met up for cocktails before our show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, and there's like, 38 of them. So cute.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, and then they met more people in line that joined the WhatsApp chat.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, shout out to the fuckette that had a fuckette tattoo.

[Lauren Garoni]

Holy shit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was amazing.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I don't know if you remember this part, but her sister, who I believe doesn't listen to our podcast, also got a fuck at tattoo. She's a tattoo artist.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, she just got it because of the Margaret Cho of it all.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think she just was hyped that her sister was getting fuckette tattooed. I imagine her sister did the tattoo on this fuckette and then was like, fuck it, let me get a fuckette tattoo.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Anyway, thank you again to the people.

[Lauren Garoni]

Of Britain, some Scandinavians who flew in.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

So after the show, Paul and I left your asses in London. What did you and Tech get up to?

[Chelsea Fairless]

We literally just shopped and went to museums.

[Lauren Garoni]

Nice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, nothing, like, out of the ordinary for us. But you went to the va, right?

[Lauren Garoni]

I did, but we fucked up and didn't realize because most museums in the United Kingdom are free. We did not realize we had to buy tickets for the special exhibitions, and they were already sold out when we arrived at the museum.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's so fucked up.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's a mistake I'll never make again. Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So you didn't get to see Elton John and David Furnish's photography collection?

[Lauren Garoni]

I did not. I know you did. How was it?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, it was a delight. But it was so funny because at the beginning of the exhibition, like, they lure you in with fashion photographs, and he has, like, some of the most famous fashion photographs that exist. Avedon, Irving Penn, et cetera. Then the next room is all celebrity portraits. So very mass. And then once you're, like, in the exhibition, it's like, here's every Nan golden and Larry Clark photo of someone doing heroin.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like he has some very gritty pieces in his collection. And then it's like you go into another room and it's just, like, really upsetting photojournalism. Like, it's like that photo of that guy falling in midair from one of the twin towers on September 11th.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, right. Falling, man.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And I heard some woman be like, I wouldn't want any of this in my house.

[Lauren Garoni]

Was that woman my mother? Because it's something my mom would say.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But one thing I thought that you would appreciate that he has is many pieces from that series that Sam Taylor Johnson did of men crying.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Including the ones of Robin Williams and Philip Seymour Hoffman.

[Lauren Garoni]

Maybe I'm making this up. I think Steve Buscemi is also included in that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, he chose not to buy that one, so. But it was very fun. And the Naomi Campbell show was fun too. Although it was kind of like, whatever, because, like, there were actually no photos of her in it. Like, it was a straight up fashion exhibition.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. And I saw on your Instagram stories, they included her pandemic flying outfit, hazmat suit that I loved.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They had her pandemic outfit. They had the silver corseted Dolce and Gabbana gown that she wore to community service.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And they, like, exhibited that alongside the. The issue of W that it was photographed in. So there was amazing stuff and there was certainly amazing clothes, but I just thought it would be a more even mix.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. It quite literally is clothing from her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wardrobe and stuff she's worn on the Runway. But, like, when you think about it, it's like we associate her with Versace and Alaia Westwood, but, like, there's not, like a million looks that I can recall off the top of my head.

[Lauren Garoni]

Correct.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And then we also went to the Tate Modern, their gift shop. Man, they've really figured it out.

[Lauren Garoni]

The Tate Modern gift shops, really? All the gift shops in British museums are incredible. Unfortunately, because I had most of our props with us, I really couldn't have another piece of luggage to travel with.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, see, we had to go to TJ Maxx and buy another suitcase, of course.

[Lauren Garoni]

Also for the Fuckettes. How many suitcases were you traveling with?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, God, like six very large duffels. And then I guess the five or six bags that we had.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes, because you were also carrying a pop star's wardrobe with you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, it's not an easy way to travel. That much I will say.

[Lauren Garoni]

Also, for people that think being a.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Stylist is glamorous, no, it's the worst job in the world. No one should ever do it. Anyway, how was your honeymoon?

[Lauren Garoni]

I took a week off and went to Italy with Paul, a place he had never been to. We were not planning on going on a honeymoon this year because why add international travel onto an already bonkers year? But halfway through this year, we committed to doing a show in London. And then it was sort of like, well, we're already flying halfway across the world. Might as well make a vacation out of it. And I don't really have any funny or entertaining stories other than I got attacked by a pigeon in Venice, which really, you would have loved.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God, I would have loved it. Were you eating bread or something, or did it just, like, pick you off the pack?

[Lauren Garoni]

I think Italian. Specifically Venice. Pigeons can tell the tourists. They're like, I'm gonna fucking take this pizza that just was delivered to your table. I think we, having lived in New York, are used to New York pigeons, which are constantly but easily afraid. Right. You can shoo them the fuck away quite easily.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, see, I love pigeons. I miss them.

[Lauren Garoni]

Go on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just don't feel like they're as gross as everyone says they are. They're birds. How gross can they be?

[Lauren Garoni]

The first time I was traveling with my parents, the first time I went to London, my parents made reservations at Gordon Ramsay's restaurant. And I had only known Gordon Ramsay as the guy who yells at people on tv. I did not know he was a fine dining chef.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was my impression of him as well.

[Lauren Garoni]

But this is all to say that we were served pigeon, and I was like, no, no, I don't think we're supposed to eat this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. But, like, did it taste like a quail?

[Lauren Garoni]

It tasted like chicken, I'm sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there you go. When in Rome.

[Lauren Garoni]

So what happened in Venice was the day that we arrived, it was like 4pm we were hungry. We walked down to this pizza place that was outside. In a bit of foreshadowing, I had actually filmed the pigeon at another table because it was just. It was just chilling there. And when our pizza arrived, he was getting closer and closer don't assume the pigeon's gender. They got closer and closer, and I was like, I'm just gonna ignore them. And then out of nowhere, it flew up and onto the pizza, and I flipped out. I, like, shot out of the chair. I knocked over the bread plate. It crashed onto the ground. And my lovely husband was like, I'm gonna. I'm the man. I'm gonna take care of this. And he tried to shoo the pigeon away with a napkin. The pigeon was unmoved. The waitstaff is witnessing me yelling at Paul in English. I'm like, they don't sense fear the way we know pigeons.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think that pigeon knew that you ate one of its relatives at Gordon Ramsay's Michelin star restaurant, Chelsea.

[Lauren Garoni]

For the rest of our time in Venice, pigeons fucked with us. And I feel like that pigeon talked to the other pigeons.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, wasn't this the plot of beef?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow. Well, that sounds like you had a great honeymoon.

[Lauren Garoni]

Another thing that I feel like you would be interested to know is in Italy, there's no Diet Coke anymore.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's just Coke Zero.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. Coke Zero became so popular that you cannot find Diet Coke anywhere.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Girl, I know. It's horrible out there. They also don't believe in salads, so.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, there is burrata and tomato.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're like, oh, here's some iceberg lettuce with some oil and vinegar. Enjoy.

[Lauren Garoni]

Something I got to experience in Venice for the first time, which is something I know you have already experienced, is the concept of Cicchetti. Cicchetti is basically Italian tapas. I'm sure our three Italian listeners are, like, screaming like, shut the up.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And, yes, we do have salads.

[Lauren Garoni]

Cecchetti is something that is offered from lunch into cocktail hour. If you are an hors d'oeuvre lover like myself, it is a dream. It is endless. Little breads with different toppings on them. You get an aperol spritz. You can get, like, 10 of them and an Aperol spritz for $20. And I'm sorry. For better or for worse, we have almost every dining concept that exists in the world in the United States, but there's no Cicchetti anywhere.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not even in Silver Lake. Like, that shit would kill in Silver Lake.

[Lauren Garoni]

If you are a freelancer in the way that you and I are, we don't have offices. You don't always want to go to a coffee meeting and usually lunch and dinner. Too much of a requirement for meetings.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is this your shark tank pitch?

[Lauren Garoni]

Sharks? Have you ever had Cicchetti. I'm saying I think Los Angeles would really love a Cecchetti restaurant. I agree, and we already have Cecconis.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But we need something more low key that doesn't have a Damien Hurst painting inside of it.

[Lauren Garoni]

This was so funny. We had dinner with one of Paul's friends in London and he was catching up with this person and I was napping in the hotel room and Paul was like, we're gonna have dinner at this place. Like, come, here's the address. And it was a hotel, I think the Ned Hotel. And so I'm looking around for where the restaurant was. Guess what the restaurant was? Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't fucking know.

[Lauren Garoni]

Chiconis.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, wait. What?

[Lauren Garoni]

I traveled halfway around the world.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[Lauren Garoni]

To eat at a Ciconi's again.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow, you really killed it.

[Lauren Garoni]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Shall we move on to something else? What do we have today?

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, Chelsea, as you know, we love to begin our episodes with hot topics. And I thought there is no hotter topic this week than people announcing their 2024 pick for sexiest Man Alive. And really, there's no better person to give their opinion on the Sexiest Man Alive than a lesbian with male face blindness.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but who is it though?

[Lauren Garoni]

So, Chelsea, what do you think of John Krasinski? And for the listening audience, I'm going to show Chelsea on my phone. This is John Krasinski, this year's sexiest man alive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I have no idea who that is.

[Lauren Garoni]

Now, John Krasinski got his start on the Office. This is what he looked like then.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, so I didn't ever watch the Office.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you think this man is attractive?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, no, but I don't want to be rude. Although in that photo, he could be attractive in a geek chic kind of way. Like, it looks like he could be in a Weezer music video.

[Lauren Garoni]

After the Office, he was in a Michael Bay film and got jacked and he turned into this. And that's a handsome guy. Whoa.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's crazy. Do you think he got some buccal fat removed?

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I'm fucking with you because this is a photo of Chris Evans. Oh, see, you see, Chelsea, that's John Krasinski. This is Chris Evans.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, so, yeah, Chris Evans is like a yassified version of him. Kind of.

[Lauren Garoni]

Looking at these two photos. Do you think this is the same man?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's like it looks like he could have just lost 10 pounds and got some buccal fat removal.

[Lauren Garoni]

And again, to further explain, I'm now showing Chelsea a photo of John Krasinski, Chris Evans and Ryan Reynolds. These are all different men, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow. Could have fooled me.

[Lauren Garoni]

Now see, Chris Evans was the sexiest man alive in 2022.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, he's definitely way hotter, though. So is being hot not important anymore?

[Lauren Garoni]

I think not. Because if you remember, I think. What was this? Oh, in 2017, Blake Shelton was named the sexiest man alive. Okay, rough people feel like the sexiest man alive is a meritocr democracy and not a public relations ploy. Because I think the fact that John Krasinski is the sexiest man alive can be further explained in the fact that he is in a movie version of the Jack Ryan Amazon series he previously was in that is coming out very soon.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm like, literally, what are you talking about?

[Lauren Garoni]

Now, see, many people thought Glen Powell should be the sexiest man alive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He seems much sexier. Shouldn't, like, someone that was in challengers be the sexiest man alive?

[Lauren Garoni]

This is what a lot of people are saying. What about Josh O'Connor?

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know what also confused me? I literally, like, don't recognize anyone on the COVID of the Vanity Fair Hollywood issue this year.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, Josh O'Connor is on that cover, people are also saying Paul Mescal might have been a good Sexiest Man Alive. He'll be in Gladiator 2.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There is no movie that I want to see less than Gladiator 2. Seeing Gladiator 1 in the theater was excruciating for me. I can't imagine willingly going back there, especially with how much more CGI I imagine is in this one.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know, you're gonna have to fight with that opinion, Paul.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that sounds like a great date night for the two of you to.

[Lauren Garoni]

Further give you context for John Krasinski, and we will move on. You might. You might recognize him as the husband of Emily Blunt.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Huh?

[Lauren Garoni]

And also the writer and director of A Quiet Place. Chell.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, was he also in Quiet Place 1?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes, he's the dad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right? Okay. Okay. Yeah, right. I've seen all of those movies.

[Lauren Garoni]

And so, therefore, five years later, People magazine named him the Sexiest man Alive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, I'm so confused. Is this the same guy that's on the COVID now that's married to Emily Blunt?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay.

[Lauren Garoni]

Chelsea, this is the same man.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Stop showing me all these identical men. I'm getting really overwhelmed, guys.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm literally going back and forth to a photo of John Krasinski at the Quiet Place to premiere and John Krasinski today on the COVID of People's Sexiest Men Alive. And Chelsea thinks I'm pranking her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

All I can say is that I'm having some sort of neurological issue right now.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, all right, let's move on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So the Grammy nominations came out this week, last week, who knows recently? Shall we go through the things we care about?

[Lauren Garoni]

Sure. I'm going to let you take the lead on this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So Beyonce has 11 nominations for Cowboy Carter. Will she finally win Album of the Year? Will we finally get a live performance of that vaguely lesbian duet with Miley Cyrus? Who knows?

[Lauren Garoni]

Record of the Year is pretty stacked. Including the Beatles.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, God. I know. We really did not need. What is it called now and Then? Here and Now.

[Lauren Garoni]

Now and Then.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They didn't need to do all that.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's the one we talked about a few months ago with the disturbing AI video.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. So Beyonce has the most nominations. Charlie and Billie Eilish both have seven nominations.

[Lauren Garoni]

What is the difference of Record of the Year and Album of the Year? Record of the Year is a song. Album of the Year is the album.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Album of the Year is the album. Record of the Year. It's more about the production. Like, it goes to the producers.

[Lauren Garoni]

Got it. Because there's also song.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Song of the Year. Year is about songwriting.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know it's confusing. Charlie. They nominated Brat for Album of the Year. I was not expecting that. I kind of thought that they would overlook her or relegate her to, like, the dance categories and stuff. But it's so cool that she's gotten so many nominations.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I'm surprised that they didn't nominate Charlie for Best New Artist, because I love that Sabrina Carpenter, who has released six studio albums, is nominated for Best New.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Artist, but I feel like Chapel Roan is going to get that. Chapel and Sabrina Carpenter got six nominations.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I'm noticing that Die with a Smile, the Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars song was nominated for Song of the Year.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was also nominated for the, like, Best Pop Duo, which I think it'll probably win. Charlie is also in that category. But they didn't submit the Girl so Confusing remix with Lord. They submitted the guest remix with Billie Eilish, which, like, no, Lord did so much more. Although the chokehold that Billie Eilish has on the Recording Academy is, like, insane.

[Lauren Garoni]

I was going to say. I bet that that was a sort of inside baseball calculation, given. You're right. How much the Grammys love Billie Eilish.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I, like, honestly don't get it. Like, I think that Billie Eilish is great. I understand why young people love her, but I don't understand why she has more Grammys than Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey and Celine Dion, and she's won two Oscars already. But I think the coolest thing about the Grammy nominations is that Kim Gordon received two for her second solo album, the Collective, and for its single Bye Bye, which I love and I listen to every time that I pack a suitcase.

[Lauren Garoni]

Now, this is her, like, trap music song, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Lauren Garoni]

Amazing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it's extra surprising because Sonic Youth never received one Grammy nomination, which is deeply embarrassing on the part of the Academy. Also, Nick Cave received his first nomination this year.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, that's crazy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's beyond crazy.

[Lauren Garoni]

They have the honorary Oscars, which is sort of a like, we fucked up. Like, Jenna Rollins, we fucked up and never gave you an Oscar. So here's an honorary one. The Grammys sort of need that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's so embarrassing because there's no Billie Eilish without a Kim Gordon. And it's weird that they couldn't recognize her artistry like when Daydream Nation came out, like everyone else, you know.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Of course, the Academy Awards also has this problem. Bill Simmons in one of my favorite podcasts, the Rewatchables has this point of like, the Academy Award should actually be awarding their awards, like, five years in the future just so you have a little time to be like, what actually had impact. That or I think the Grammys need to have a correction board where they actually take people's Grammys Grammys away.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, for sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

Like Jethro Tull won the first, I believe, heavy metal Grammy Award and not Metallica. That needs to be yoinked away from him.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, one last thing about Kim Gordon. Now that I'm thinking about her. Have you listened to Bella Freud's podcast yet?

[Lauren Garoni]

No.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. It's so good. It's called Fashion Neurosis. There's an episode with Kim Gordon. There's an episode with Rick Owens, Kate Moss. Those are the few of them I've listened to. I'm going to listen to all of them.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do they have to lay down on a couch like it's psychotherapy? Zachary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's genius because it's a podcast, but it's also filmed. And it's literally the only podcast that is filmed that looks good, that has, like, a real concept to the way that it's filmed because the subjects are lying down and they mount the cameras above them, and then Bella, like, sits up in the chair.

[Lauren Garoni]

So if you got to lay down on a couch, would you submit to being filmed for the podcast?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if it's about that. I think it's like, good lighting. Like, the environment is beautiful. It's just very chic. And of course, her guests are very, very chic people. But I think it's such a smart show and I think it really, like, is validating for someone that, like, cares about clothes and they kind of, like, shamelessly talk about clothes and wearing clothes and they're unapologetic. Yeah. But it's also very smart and very just like, of course, Fashion Insider Y.

[Lauren Garoni]

It'S made for us.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also Bella Freud, one of the designers name dropped in Kim Gordon's trap song.

[Lauren Garoni]

So you finally watched the show. Nobody wants this. I'm sure people love that we are talking about this show six weeks after it was popular.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know a lot of people really love this show, but I did not want this. I watched the whole thing. Don't want season two. But here's the thing. I missed the boat on Kristen Bell. I didn't watch Veronica Mars. I didn't watch the Good Place. I don't get it. And I really love Adam Brody in this role, but his Riz alone is not enough to make this a Satisfying watch for me.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's interesting. I mean, I was never a Veronica Mars person. I never watched the Good Place either. I think the novelty of the show is. It's like, what if a show was just a rom com? I think that there's something very satisfying about that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

I, of course, saw a bit of myself in an emotionally avoidant podcaster.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right, right. I should have figured, who falls for.

[Lauren Garoni]

A very emotionally available, plain speaking man who's like, you're not too much for me. So I was like, I'm in.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, I can definitely see that for you. And I do appreciate the fact that the podcast within the show does feel.

[Lauren Garoni]

Realistic because it's based on the two Foster sisters own podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. There are so many podcasts like that that exists. I don't think I would be the target audience for that either. But kudos for the realism.

[Lauren Garoni]

And it's interesting what is inspired by their real life and what isn't. They have a podcast together. Their father is David Foster, and I love that they don't do a fictionalized version of him in the show, but instead they have a gay dad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's cute.

[Lauren Garoni]

Who their mother is still in love with. I am surprised that this season ended on a bit of a cliffhanger because even though I like this show, I didn't assume that it would have a second, third, fourth season. I thought it would have a sort of beginning, middle, and end.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sorry. He's not going to give up his job and his religion for her.

[Lauren Garoni]

No. She's going to have to convert, which is what the foster sister that created the show did end up doing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I feel bad for his ex girlfriend. I'm on her side, really.

[Lauren Garoni]

Breaking into his office, finding his mother's ring, grandmother's ring, and just putting it on her finger.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, sure, that was crazy. But at least she wants that life. Kristen Bell, like, does not give a fuck.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, how are you supposed to just talk about sex flagrantly if you're a married lady?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I don't know what else.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, it's something actually of the moment. We both watched the Martha Stewart documentary last year. I'm like, why do I still have a Netflix subscription this year? You guys, you've redeemed yourself.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's worth having Netflix for a year just to watch this movie alone. So it was directed by RJ Cutler, who also directed the September issue and that Billie Eilish documentary that we talked about a couple years ago, which might.

[Lauren Garoni]

Explain why Martha Stewart gave this man unlimited access to herself. Her personal archive of images, letters, archival footage.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but it's not like he's the Maisel's brothers or something.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know, which is why it's extra funny that she's talking about it afterwards.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I guess after watching the September issue, she'd at least be like, okay, well, he's not really going to go in on me hard.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm going to get some preferential treatment in this documentary.

[Lauren Garoni]

Maybe RJ Cutler has some feelings about parental figures cheating on each other because that's like the hardest. He kind of digs his screws in.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But she volunteered that information, especially the Gone Girl esque letters to her husband about the affair that he was having.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, let's, let's go to the beginning of the documentary because I think the joy of Martha Stewart and the joy of this documentary is she speaks about her life at first in such whimsical terms and then will sucker punch you. Because the documentary begins with her talking about her father and how amazing he is and how he gave her her love of gardening and how amazing he was at his work. And then she goes, oh, not his work work. There he was a failure. And it's like, okay, we are in for a treat here.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I realized I did not know that much about her pre fame life. I knew that she was a model. I of course, knew that she had a successful catering business. I didn't know that she was a stockbroker. And I didn't know that her catering business wasn't just catering, like garden parties in Connecticut. She was doing the most lavish conceptual, forward thinking stuff for like, MoMA or whatever.

[Lauren Garoni]

Which I think the origins of that that she discusses begins on her honeymoon with her husband that she meets in college. What did you think of Martha Stewart's own description of her college self? Because she goes, they took notice of a very chic woman walking around in Bermuda shorts. And I'm like, I'm sure they were.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Chic at the time.

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't know if that outfit's giving, but whatever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's so rude. I feel like you have a pair of Bermuda shorts somewhere in here.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, but that's, that's me referencing Carrie Bradshaw. But I think what you're talking about with how fantastical her catering company was, she attributes to this honeymoon that she went on with her husband, with her first husband. And she talks about this extended honeymoon through Europe, me taking a week off from the podcast to go to Italy. Like that to me is an extended honeymoon. So when she was like, we were Gone for five months. I was like, what? What in the Ladies who Lunch is this? So she admits to RJ Cutler that she cheated. I mean, ladies, is it cheating if you're in the Duomo and you're emotional and kiss a man who isn't your husband?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think that's justified because it's just so romantic. I loved that. I loved that she admitted to that. I loved the dramatic reenactment of it, the animated reenactment of it.

[Lauren Garoni]

All right, this is where I'm going to disagree with you. When that AI imagery started as, like, dramatic reenactments, it completely took me out of the documentary for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But it was really great and campy. When she was in jail, when it was like. When it was like her giving an inmate a cucumber sandwich, I was like, this is actually perfect.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's funny. I feel like when we were growing up, the question of who was the first supermodel that was omnipresent, and I'm sort of noticing in recent documentaries, it's being litigated who the first influencer was. I feel like when we watched the Diane von Furstenberg documentary, they were like, she was the first influencer. And now it's like, no, actually, Martha Stewart was the first influencer.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there's different kinds of influencers, right? Maybe Diane von Furstenberg was the first, like, travel influencer, right? Fashion influencer. And Martha Stewart was more of, like, a trad wife influencer.

[Lauren Garoni]

Which is funny because she coughs to the fact that her husband was relentlessly cheating on her throughout their marriage, which she cautions all women, that if your husband's cheating on you, he's a piece of shit and you should divorce him, although she couldn't. And that's when RJ Cutler's like, okay, but you cheated on your husband. And she goes, yeah, but I don't think he knew about that. And then from behind the camera, he's like, no, no, he knows. And he said he only stepped outside the marriage when he learned you did.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, she's so Samantha coded because she is just like a man. She thinks like a man, she acts like a man. It's amazing.

[Lauren Garoni]

I read a tweet that was like, martha Stewart proves the point that when men cheat, they ruin families. But when women cheat, it's just they're having a little fun.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm just obsessed with her is my major takeaway after watching this. And I think that the fact that people hate her so much, it's like, well, men hate her because she's successful. And I think women hate her just because she is objectively better than most of us. And that's not just because, like, she's beautiful and whatever. It's because she literally puts in more work than everyone else does. And I think that's very clear after watching this, her first book that she.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ever made that was about entertaining. She really wanted to make the point that anybody could recreate this stuff. And I feel like that sort of got away from her naturally because she became a caricature of herself.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's true. But also, it's like she was really giving, like, injecting a dose of glamour into so many women's lives. Like, when you saw Martha Stewart Living magazine next to the Women's Day and like, the tragic, tragic cooking magazines and women's magazines, you were like, oh, this is like a beacon of light, you know, I just wanted to live inside that magazine. My mom subscribed to it, so I read it a lot in the 90s, and it's like people forget. It's like it wasn't just that the recipes were amazing or her holiday wreaths were amazing. It was the whole vision and the art direction and the photography. And there was a lot of avant garde aspects to Martha Stewart Living compared to other magazines at the time.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. I love the quote that someone says in the documentary of, like, what people couldn't handle was that she was not just a homemaker, but she was a homemaker who was a bitch. And that's really what men couldn't handle. And I think that's what sets her apart from this tradwifeization that's going on right now, especially online, is her domesticity wasn't really for the male gaze.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garoni]

It really was her point of view for herself. And to that end, and this is a smaller part of the documentary, she didn't want to be a mom. She didn't like it. She wasn't particularly good at it. She had the one. If it were a different time, she probably would have had none.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know what she did enjoy doing? Putting a bottle of vodka in a block of ice filled with fresh flowers. My jaw was on the fucking floo.

[Lauren Garoni]

All I want to do is buy the original set of her decorating books from the 80s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, they're really expensive, though, I'm sure. Yeah. I just want more documentation of, like, her catering work. You know, she was like, oh, I was inspired by the Dutch masters in my. The way I was presenting cheese and grapes and shit.

[Lauren Garoni]

If she had a subscription service that you could see all the scans of her old books, her catering work. I'd pay $10.99 a month to see that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think we just need like a really, really lavish, like multi volume, like Rizzoli series or something that's leaning into the more upscale stuff that she did.

[Lauren Garoni]

She mentions again and again that she is the first self made female billionaire. So take that, Kylie Jenner.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. You know what I'm sad Wasn't represented in this documentary, the Halloween issues of Martha Stewart Living.

[Lauren Garoni]

I was surprised that they didn't show when they were talking about the apex of her cultural relevancy, that they didn't show her at, what was it, the 97 or the 99 VMAs where she was presenting with Busta Rhymes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm like, that was very important to me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was very important. Just generally. Also, I can't stop thinking about that one photo that they show briefly in the documentary that was from Vanity Fair where it's like her at a long table with her chow chow sitting in the opposite chair.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like what happened to photography? Why can't we have that? Now?

[Lauren Garoni]

If I've gotten anything from this documentary, it's one thing, which is fuck James Comey.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Everyone that knows Martha Stewart, even just a little bit, knows that she went to prison for insider trading. Except she didn't go to prison for insider trading. She went to prison for perjury. Except she didn't lie. The prosecutors just felt like she was lying.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So fucked up. Evil people.

[Lauren Garoni]

I just want to let you know, Chelsea, I will never be like her friend.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, that fucking bitch.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, for those who haven't seen the documentary, Martha Stewart, as she tells it in 2001, is going to Cancun with her friend Mariana, her stockbroker calls her and says, hey, should we sell this? She goes, yeah, let's sell it. Hangs up the phone. This starts a chain of events where it turns out the stock she was selling, her friend, who she had known forever for decades, actually was committing insider trading. And this was at a time where white collar crime is at an all time high. This is the Enron days. And so the prosecutors were trying to find to pin someone. And this is how Martha Stewart got involved in all of this. As I described, they couldn't catch her on insider trading. They really couldn't catch her on perjury either. So they had her friend Mariana, who was with her on this Cancun vacation, say on the stand that Martha Stewart said to her, that's why I love Stockbrokers, they tell you stuff before it actually happens. And I'm here to tell you, Chelsea, even if you did commit a crime, I'm taking that to my grave.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's never about being a fucking narc, by the way.

[Lauren Garoni]

A friend that takes you on fancy vacations.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Let's just assume she had insider traded. It would have only saved her 45k, which is less than the cost of the exotic skin Birkin that she carried.

[Lauren Garoni]

To her trial and less than the fine that she ultimately had to pay. I think her fine was $30,000 or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, it's so funny, like, looking back at her court outfits, I think now, because people are so much more literate when it comes to fashion. Like, she would never wear that shit now.

[Lauren Garoni]

You mean the Birkin?

[Chelsea Fairless]

The Birkin, the furs. Like, you would never want to present yourself as an extraordinarily wealthy person in that setting.

[Lauren Garoni]

This trial was an assassination of her character. Because really, the character evidence that Martha Stewart probably did all of this is that, again, she was a bitch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay? You know who else is A. Andrea Pacer. Okay? Although I love her, she was covering Martha's trial extensively for the New York Post. And Martha in the documentary was basically said something to the effect of, like, I hated this woman. Thank God she's dead now. But the thing is, is that she isn't actually dead. So then Andrea Pazer writes, objectively, the best headline I've ever read. Hey, Martha Stewart. You gloated about the death of a Post columnist. But I'm alive, bitch.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, when I read that headline, it really got me there. Because you think someone else is writing, it's so good. It is the headline equivalent of a Scooby Doo reveal.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, I'm sure that Andrea Pacer raised some points in her coverage, but it's like, the New York Post is vicious towards celebrities. It's more of a tabloid than a newspaper, certainly. And I don't think anyone was being generous towards Martha in any regard.

[Lauren Garoni]

She has the best line at the end of the trial in the documentary where she goes, those prosecutors should have been put in a Cuisinart and turned on high. Which is the best way to describe, I want to kill these people ever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although we do know that she's mean. Mean because of that one clip of her yelling at the woman for the way that she was, like, cutting the carrots or whatever the fuck.

[Lauren Garoni]

She must have really been impressed by the September issue because she gave RJ Cutler this previously unreleased footage that was filmed a couple weeks before her sentencing that was about an Easter brunch that she was hosting. She completely roasts someone that's working for her for cutting an orange with too small of a knife.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I read the, the New York Times article where Martha like really laid out all of her grievances about this documentary. And it wasn't so much about the way that she was presented as the way it was directed.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, she doesn't like the last images of the documentary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. She didn't like the music, like that sort of thing. And it's like, yeah, I get it. Like, you have very high standards. You want to have full creative control. I am surprised that she let someone do this for that reason.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. She was just on Jimmy Fallon and he asked her, are you happy with how the documentary came out? And she just goes, it's fine. And then he goes, did you enjoy the process? And she goes, no. I was surprised at how much time was spent on her time in prison, which I don't think she's ever really spoken about. Like what she did on a day to day basis. You see in her journals what she did hour by hour. Something that is dropped sort of at the last second in the documentary is she has had a boyfriend in this time period for the last 15 years who never visited her in prison.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the guy that invented Excel.

[Lauren Garoni]

Is that who he is?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And now I'm using Google sheets in protest. Not like I wasn't already.

[Lauren Garoni]

I love that you're doing this because after she gets out of prison, he shocks the shit out of her by letting her know that he's getting married to someone else. And I feel like we shit on Mr. Big for getting engaged a few months after Carrie leaves him. But this man is the real Mr. Big.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So true.

[Lauren Garoni]

I guess I also did not realize how much she did not like her daytime talk show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The Mark Burnett produced daytime talk show.

[Lauren Garoni]

Which, as someone describes it, as creative malice. And I love how they act like this show was Martha just couldn't get a job, so she had to degrade herself by like some tar esque Jerry Springer mockery of everything she stood for. It's like, I'm sorry, she had to ask Melanie Griffith a couple of questions while making an Apple piece.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, it just, it wasn't her. But I love how she was like. That show was like prison. Being in prison was like a vacation because she got to like reset.

[Lauren Garoni]

And then. Had you ever seen the roast of Justin Bieber that I guess reawakened her career? No, to me she's always been culturally relevant and there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's what I thought too. Also, no mention of her CBD gummy line.

[Lauren Garoni]

Unfortunate. Also, I think it's so bizarre, and I wonder if this is one of the reasons she's unhappy with the documentary is when you see it on Netflix. Is your thumbnail the weird pouty selfie that Martha Stewart has taken?

[Chelsea Fairless]

So smart.

[Lauren Garoni]

Really? I'm like, why?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, I love it. I think it speaks to her relevance, and it's certainly an image that younger people have seen.

[Lauren Garoni]

The end is how sort of like a phoenix rising from the ashes that she's reinvented herself on social media. And yet no reference to how ugly her food looks when she takes photos with the flash on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. I love that, though. She keeps it real. Shall we move on to. I don't even know how to start this. It's just too much to wrap my head around.

[Lauren Garoni]

This episode's a real mixed bag. Now that we've talked about something that actually is in the zeitgeist, let's go back a month and talk about Joker Folia do, which is something we were supposed to talk about weeks ago. I rushed out in the middle of the afternoon to see a screening of this movie by myself so we could talk about it on the podcast a few weeks ago. And then you were like, I can't get around to it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. And I profusely apologized, by the way.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, of course. But I just received a text message over the weekend because I didn't think you were ever gonna watch it. And you said, I'm so sorry you had to watch this alone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know, because I watched it, like, in bed on a Sunday morning. I can't imagine, like, physically going to a movie theater and having to deal.

[Lauren Garoni]

With all of that. And I was by myself in that theater.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's like giving self harm. Like, there should be, like, a crisis hotline for that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, where to begin?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I was hoping that I would appreciate it despite the unanimous bad reviews, because it is very up my alley. Right. I loved Joker. I love musicals.

[Lauren Garoni]

You love Mental Illness.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Love Mental Illness. Love Lady Gaga, Love Ariane Phillips, who did the costumes.

[Lauren Garoni]

And yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And yet nothing came together.

[Lauren Garoni]

The film is so nihilistic. Towards the end, I got Zen about it. I found it such a fuck you to the audience. Like, it is so clear that the director and co writer, Todd Phillips, did not enjoy the school shooter incel hero narrative that the press and online discourse put on the first film that he was like, oh, I'm Gonna show you think this guy is amazing. Oh, no, no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm gonna make a movie that none of you could possibly like.

[Lauren Garoni]

He, quite literally in this film is like, Joaquin Phoenix is not the Joker. It is just Arthur Fleck, a severely mentally ill man who has experienced untold amounts of trauma.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, Joker felt zeitgeisty. It felt like it was speaking to contemporary issues. I don't know what this is saying exactly. This was such a bummer. I've been thinking about it a lot and I've realized what it reminds me of. This is the horrible Hollywood version of Dancer in the Dark. Because both of these films are about working class people who have been discarded by society who escape to a magical world of musicals who are incarcerated and spoiler alert, don't get particularly happy endings like Dancer in the Dark. That had a companion album that Bjork did called Selma Songs. This has Lady Gaga's Harlequin as the companion album.

[Lauren Garoni]

We bemoaned after the Barbie red carpet that this was going to become an omnipresent trend that every actor was going to dress on theme for Big Temple movies. And I think Lady Gaga might have killed it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, because it only really works if the movie is successful. Because if the movie is unsuccessful, as is the case with this, it's like all of these photos from the press tour are just her dressed like a clown. It just reminds people of the failure of the movie even more than if she was just wearing normal clothes. So that's the risk of dressing on theme.

[Lauren Garoni]

But I truly do not know who this movie is for. Because anyone who enjoyed the first Joker film won't enjoy this sad courtroom drama. And those who didn't care for Joker but came to see a Lady Gaga musical are treated to Lady Gaga singing off key the entire time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she has to sing off key because he is singing off key.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I don't know if he knows how to sing on key.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, and I believe that, like, you can make a good musical with people that can't sing. I've seen it done. I think the Woody Allen movie, everyone says I love you is a very good example because not everyone in that movie can sing similarly to Joker. They're all singing jazz standards. But I think the thing with that movie is it's. It's more rooted in, like, real life. Whereas this is like visually referencing this sort of big, lavish, like, MGM musicals. So when you have that level of spectacle, it's like you actually do need the music to be able to meet that for it to make Sense.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, also these fantasy sequences which made sense in the trailer of like, oh, okay, these two mentally ill people are falling in love with each other and they're imagining that they're in this grandiose musical or a Sunny and Cher esque variety show instead of the hell that they're living in. But that's not really the case when you watch the film. And I truly think that Todd Phillips was like, if I don't periodically have these fantasy vignettes, even I know that this film will be unwatchable in the sense that it's just too depressing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's also too boring. There's no plot. The whole movie is tied up in the events of the first movie.

[Lauren Garoni]

So much so that they cut to scenes from the first film. Much better. Scenes that remind you, wow, I wish I was watching the 2019 Joker.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. Actually, you know what my biggest gripe with this film is that in this film, it is mentioned several times throughout that a television movie exists that was made about the events of the first Joker film, yet we never get to see it. Why not give us one fun thing aside from the parts when, you know, Lady Gaga decides to like, break a window or light something on fire. She was fucking great.

[Lauren Garoni]

She was great as crazy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She needs a girl interrupted type movie. Like, we know that Gaga is a bit crazy and I think she could really use that.

[Lauren Garoni]

She almost gets off scot free in.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This film because she's the best thing about this film.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right? Another way to look at joker folia 2 is less 2 people sharing in the same delusion and more it's the music video for Eminem, Stan. But Lady Gaga is the Devin Sawa. Stan. I think the one thing I did appreciate about this film is it gets at the heart of every writer's worst fear, which is that your journal with your personal thoughts and little jokes will be read out loud in court with no context or tone. That scared me to my core, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, his performance of For Once in my Life scared me to my core. Look. That said, while Joaquin Phoenix can't sing, he certainly can't act. Although I was looking at the soundtrack because I was like, like, oh God, like, what are all the songs that. Also, who could possibly listen to this? I saw that he did a cover of Daniel Johnston's True Love Will find you in the end. I don't know if that was in the credits or what. I didn't hear it in the film, but I was like, actually, this is the only song within his range.

[Lauren Garoni]

Can we Talk about. What I found was the two most disturbing aspects of the film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

The first is when Arthur Fleck, AKA the Joker, although we learned at the end of this film he's not the Joker, asks Harley Quinn to insert his penis into her because he doesn't know where it goes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, he was a virgin.

[Lauren Garoni]

They really double down on this because they're like, oh, do you think that this man is your anarchist hero? What if I told you he was sexually abused by his mother, played by Francis Conroy?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. I was so sad because I forgot that he murdered her in the first movie. I was, like, waiting for her to come back.

[Lauren Garoni]

And also to be like, guess what? Frances Conroy, beloved treasure matriarch of the Fisher family, terrible mother.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But you do have Katherine Keener randomly playing the lawyer.

[Lauren Garoni]

Get that Warner Brothers paycheck because the budget of this film was $200 million.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow.

[Lauren Garoni]

But this is beneath her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

The second I would say most disturbing thing in this film. And I have to ask the tough question, Chelsea, was the Joker sexually assaulted by the guards towards the end of the film?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I assumed that he was. Again, this is where things get very Lars Von Trier Y.

[Lauren Garoni]

In the articles I've read, no one has brought up this fact about Todd Phillips because I think people, if they know anything about Todd Phillips, are like, he's the guy that did the Hangover movies in old school. But there is is a bit of nihilism in him that runs deep when you know, the fact that when he was at nyu, his thesis was a documentary about Gigi Allen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't have a problem with nihilism. I think some of the greatest filmmakers are complete nihilists, but this just didn't come together.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, but I'm almost impressed that he tricked a studio to give him $200 million to make this movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm very impressed, too. I could see a world in which this movie has, like, one musical sequence that happens, like, right before he dies or something.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But to make that the concept for the entire film is fully insane.

[Lauren Garoni]

And having seen the movie, I stand by the fact that if you did not have periodically those kind of scenes, it would be unbearable to watch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, you know what?

[Lauren Garoni]

We survived this movie going on to more depressing things. Lady Gaga's disease music video.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, okay. Well, before we get into that, did you listen to the Harlequin album at all?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. And in the words of Marie Kondo, it did not spark joy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's not what I expected. I think Harlequin is like Cheek to Cheek for people who have tried at least three different SSRIs.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's also fascinating because she is singing on Key in the concept album.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

For Joker, Folly Adobe.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But the songs are so varied. And, you know, again, it's all. With the exception of two songs that are original songs. It's all jazz standards, and some of them are very by the book. Like, I think her version of that's Entertainment is quite good. And that could totally be on Cheek to Cheek. But there's. There's other things that are, like, fucking crazy. Like the insane production choices on World on a String, which feels like it could have been on Gwen Stefani's Love Angel Music Baby somehow.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

And then there's other songs, like, you know, her version of Get Happy. It's like, it would be insane to listen to this and not listen to the Judy Garland version. Like, there's just no need for this.

[Lauren Garoni]

It also feels out of place considering she does a jazz standard show in Vegas, which is quite popular. But that's not connected to this because this is connected to her Harlequin Persona, which is coming a few months off of the Bruno Mars pseudo country duet album. So Disease is not on Harlequin.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Disease is not on Harlequin. Disease is from her upcoming solo record.

[Lauren Garoni]

This Is All Happening Too Close Together.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Die With a Smile was not on the Joker soundtrack or on Harlequin. It was a standalone single.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm not a fan of Disease. When I first heard the song, I thought it had been Tick Tockified. Like it had been slowed down in the way that Tick Tock loved to slow down music. But this is the actual pacing of the song.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There's something about it that isn't hitting for me.

[Lauren Garoni]

And.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it's weird because I think Lady Gaga is a fascinating artist and that she's done a lot of amazing things. And I appreciate the fact that she has given us so many disparate things, whether it's Joker, the, you know, the Bruno Mars song this. But somehow none of it is really landing for me.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I'm not the biggest Lady Gaga fan, but it is not landing for me either. The music video reminded me of Marilyn Manson. Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's very Marilyn Manson. And if anyone would appreciate a Marilyn Manson esque video, I think it's us. Although it kind of. Like there's elements of it that I liked and elements of it that I didn't like. I think.

[Lauren Garoni]

When the monster is revealed to be yourself. Is that the part you didn't like?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I don't know. I think when I think about the songs of Lady Gaga's that I really like, I think it is songs like Marry the Night Free Woman, her songs that are basically like, yeah, I'm a fucked up sad bitch, but like, I'm gonna go out tonight and party because that's who I am. Like. Cause she can sing about things that are quite dark. Like, even on chromatica, like 911 is about her, you know, antipsychotic medications. But she turned it into a really amazing dance song. And I think with disease, it's like we can have the dark themes, but I don't know if we really need this particular sound.

[Lauren Garoni]

I have noticed that our faves don't pick the best first singles. I've learned from you. Taylor Swift also does this. So I'm hoping. I have hope for the other singles.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I have hope for the other singles too. Yeah. If I was Gaga, I think I would be quite confused right now because she is so talented. I loved Chromatica, but Chromatica kind of flopped for the general public, right? The non like, gay people public.

[Lauren Garoni]

She did get fucked by the Pandemic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But the one number one song from that was Rain on Me with Ariana Grande. Her next big song was the Bruno Mars song. And then the song before that, that really hit was Shallow with Bradley Cooper. So it's been a long time since she's had a big song without another artist involved. Here's hoping that better things await us on on LG7.

[Lauren Garoni]

Here's hoping.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Moving on. Shall we talk about the new issue of Vogue?

[Lauren Garoni]

The new issue of Vogue, which I know everything about, I've seen almost every editorial and I still can't get my hands on for another two weeks. Yes, of course.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So it was announced last week that Marc Jacobs is guest editing the December issue of American Vogue. Two covers have been released, I guess three, technically. Two are photos of Kaia Gerber by Steven Meisel in the incredible Marc Jacobs spring collection. And the third cover is a painting of Kaia Gerber in Marc Jacobs by Anna Weyant, which is very cool.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, Marc Jacobs loves a figural female painter.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He does. But this is a really new thing for Vogue. They've never had a guest editor before. This is a concept that they've borrowed from Paris Vogue that's been doing this since the 70s. And the Anna Weighant cover is very much referencing some of those older issues that they did in collaboration with artists like David Hockney and Fellini, what have you.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's a very inspired choice that Anna Wintour tapped Marc Jacobs and not say, Baz Luhrmann.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. Thank God.

[Lauren Garoni]

It really is a breath of fresh. And there is an extensive video on Vogue's YouTube about the process of how this came together. And there's another great Vanessa Friedman piece in the New York Times that interviews Anna Wintour and Marc Jacobs about the process of making this issue. And she really gave full control to Marc Jacobs.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Well, I think he's really the perfect person to do this because he's not going to try and do anything that flies in the face of Anna's vision. He clearly has an immense amount of respect for her and for Vogue. But he did add a joie de vivre to Vogue that I think has been really lacking.

[Lauren Garoni]

There is an energy, a humor, a curiosity that has been missing from the magazine for a long time. We have, of course, talked a lot of shit about the state of American Vogue, but this is so exciting. And if you read the Vanessa Friedman piece, Anna Wintour talks about how in Marc Jacobs pushing her out of her comfort zone, it did make her feel like they could take more risks. I'm excited. I'm cautiously optimistic for Vogue in 2025.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And it's interesting because the shoot with Kaia Gerber, the Steven Meisel shoot, the covers, they are quite traditional in every respect, and they're also very Vogue in the sense that, you know, if you look at issues of American Vogue from the late 60s, a lot of them do look like this. This, of course, is like a very exaggerated version of that, but it is very vogey at its core. It's not as if Marc Jacobs just sort of imposed his own look onto the magazine.

[Lauren Garoni]

No. And he has such reverence for the history. He also has impeccable taste. But there are elements that, if you care about fashion the way you and I do, are exciting and a little bit fancasty. Where he brought Grace Coddington out of retirement to guest style. The Kaia Gerber cover, it's shot by Steven Meisel. Guido's doing the hair. Pat McGrath's doing the makeup.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, there's a really beautiful Carline Jacobs beauty editorial, which Marc Jacobs discusses in the video about the making of this issue. Vogue stopped doing beauty editorials ages ago, and I thought that was really beautiful and really different for Vogue.

[Lauren Garoni]

These are the tribute to his long nails.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it was all about nails and.

[Lauren Garoni]

Eyelashes, which I guess. The article that will accompany it is an essay by Jeremy Oharis about how uncomfortable it is to wear a corset. And you see in the video Anna Wintour trying her best to be like, okay, so the photos are long nails and long eyelashes. But this is about how it's hard to wear a corset. She's like, I'm trying to see the through line here.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I did read his essay. It was basically about how, like, the Schiaparelli look that he wore to the Tony Awards basically killed him. The corset was so extreme. It was funny and irreverent and certainly matched the tone of the photographs.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. And Marc Jacobs point. And his point of view is just these impossible standards of beauty. Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I can't wait to get into this. The most exciting aspect of this issue for me is this singular Gregory Crudsen photo of Marc Jacobs. Frank Lloyd Wright designed house. That's. Where is it?

[Lauren Garoni]

Upstate. Hampton somewhere. Upstate somewhere Fabulous.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It looks beautiful.

[Lauren Garoni]

That has his husband ominously standing outside.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's very like house of sand and fog energy.

[Lauren Garoni]

That photo in particular in this Vanessa Friedman interview, that's the one that Anna Wintour was like. This made me think we could take more risks. And it's like, so not Photoshop. Fuck all the photos. Because that's the other exciting thing about this image is it feels like an editorial from the 90s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, also, I mean, Gregory Crewdson, such an incredible photographer, was working a lot in the 90s, or I remember seeing his work a lot in the 90s. I would like to see his work in Vogue more. Why not?

[Lauren Garoni]

But he is someone. And I think that's the power of tapping someone like Marc Jacobs. Because Marc Jacobs says Gregory Crewdson has been approached many times to do fashion editorials and he's outright refused. But he said yes to this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, thank God. I do want to see more of this house, though. Although you do get little snippets of it in the Vogue behind the scenes videos. Because I was of course, hoping for a full, like, Architectural Digest thing, but I actually kind of like that Mark is so withholding.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Show a little, but keep more to yourself. Yeah. And I found it interesting that the. The major disagreement that Anna Wintour and Marc Jacobs had was he wanted to shoot everything in a studio. And she was really pushing for. In a magazine, you need to have things that are in nature, in the environment that these clothes are going to be worn in. Which I thought was interesting. That was her perspective. Because it's like, why is every cover in a studio then, if this is your philosophy?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Their disagreement was mainly over this one photo of this dancer who is making a Carolina Kurkova as Marilyn Manson type face. Anna just doesn't appreciate ugliness.

[Lauren Garoni]

She doesn't appreciate the grotesque.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The only, like, ugly thing that she likes is, like, you know, an ugly Prada floral print.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, but it's because she would wear that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

And then the other disagreement that they had was Marc Jacobs first impulse was to put Anna Wintour on the COVID and she just said, move on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That would have been great.

[Lauren Garoni]

But there is that great photo of both of them with the very precise bobs from behind.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's so good. That should be on the back cover. In a perfect world.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I wonder if that's the image for the letter from the editor.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah. I'm sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

Chelsea and I drove by the four remaining newsstands in Los Angeles, and then when I read the New York Times article, I was shocked to learn that it won't be on newsstands until November 26th.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's too hard to get magazines. Like, I've been trying to get that Liza Minnelli interview. Everyone just has JLo. I finally had to order it online. Also, this Anna Weyent cover, I have followed her on Instagram for a while. If you're not familiar with her work, she's basically Gen Z John Curran. Like, if you with a John Curran and a Karen, kill him. Nick, this woman's work will speak to you, but I didn't know anything about her until I read this Vogue article about her, which was completely fascinating.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. And you sent it to me a couple of nights ago. And I just sent you out of context. What I imagined the quote that fascinated you, which was three years ago, she shocked a lot of people by becoming the girlfriend of Larry Gagosian.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This is shocking because she is 29 and he is our dad's age. Yeah, he's like 80, right? Yes, 80 something. When they were dating. That was a couple years ago, so she was 27. The photos of them together are truly wild because this girl is beautiful. Like, she is beautiful in a highly traditional way.

[Lauren Garoni]

If you don't know what she looks like, but you are fluent in the world of girls. She's Mimi Howard. She's Mimi Rose Howard.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There are beautiful female artists, but they don't typically look like this.

[Lauren Garoni]

Again, this is no disrespect to her. It's just if you looked at her without the context that she's this amazing painter, you'd be like, oh, she must have a Dear Media podcast with her NFL boyfriend.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly. Like I would imagine if I just looked at the paintings that they would be painted by someone that looks like Joanna Newsom. Kind of correct. Like Joanna Newsom is stunningly gorgeous. Again, it's not about beauty. It's just about the specifics kind of beauty that this woman has.

[Lauren Garoni]

The Daily Mail has a photo of her and Larry Gagosian getting off of a helicopter, I assume, and she is holding an exotic crocodile oxblood, Birkin and also a Gagosian tote bag.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also super cool about her is that she dumped him and he still reps her.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's how talented she is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Go off. Anna, weigh in. Obsessed with you and obsessed with this issue. I can't wait to get my hands on it.

[Lauren Garoni]

It. Wow, child, this felt good. It felt good to have a lot of juicy pop culture stuff to talk about.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think there are actually things that happened that we cared about which, you know, isn't always the case.

[Lauren Garoni]

And world events we don't care to talk about.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly. Anywho. Well, you guys, thank you for listening once again. We will be back next week. Lauren, will will you watch Disclosure Disclaimer? Yeah. Imagine you just watch Disclosure, the old. Is that like a Demi Moore movie?

[Lauren Garoni]

Disclosure, I believe, is the Demi Moore Michael Douglas virtual reality sexual harassment film where shockingly, Demi Moore is the sexual harasser.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, I'll watch Disclosure and you watch Disclaimer.

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. All right, we'll be back next week, guys.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Bye.

[Lauren Garoni]

Bye.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And three.