On Wicked, The Golden Globes, JonBenét Ramsey

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast Episode Summary Episode Title: On Wicked, The Golden Globes, JonBenét Ramsey
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni
Release Date: December 20, 2024

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1. Celebrating a Milestone: The 200th Episode

The episode kicks off with the hosts, Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni, expressing their astonishment at reaching their 200th podcast episode milestone. Chelsea remarks at [00:40] “Wait, that's insane. 200?” highlighting her surprise, while Lauren counters with enthusiasm, “[00:42] ‘Absolutely. We did it, Joe. We stuck with something.’” They reflect on their journey, acknowledging the dedication required to maintain consistent content, and celebrate completing their first podcast tour in Australia, specifically mentioning their stay in Sydney at the hotel where Michael Hutchins tragically passed away ([01:06] Chelsea).

2. Behind the Scenes: Polyester Magazine Shoot

Chelsea and Lauren delve into their recent polyester magazine shoot, sharing anecdotes and humor about the experience. Chelsea shares her excitement about the shoot being featured in an issue alongside Sofia Coppola's project, “[01:35] ‘I love Ione and Gita and all of the girls that work there.’” They describe the intense preparation, spending two hours in hair and makeup to achieve a maximalist, glamorous look ([02:13] Chelsea), which they later showcased at a chic dinner organized by their Prada-employed friend, Ryan ([02:55] Lauren). This segment is peppered with laughter and candid reflections on their fashion-forward appearance and the reactions it elicited from others.

3. Navigating Patreon and Content Corrections

Transitioning from their fashion adventures, the hosts discuss their Patreon experience versus Apple subscriptions, emphasizing the benefits of Patreon, such as ad-free episodes and quarterly stickers for subscribers ([07:26] Lauren). They also address necessary corrections from previous episodes, notably inaccuracies in their Sex and the City rewatch regarding an auction house, reflecting their commitment to accuracy and listener trust ([08:42] Lauren). Further, they contemplate introducing a corrections segment to improve content reliability, citing past errors in their analyses of the show ([08:49] Chelsea).

4. The Golden Globes: Nominations and Predictions

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the nominations for the 82nd Annual Golden Globes, with both hosts sharing their perspectives on the nominated films and performances. They discuss the standout nominations, such as Emilia Perez leading with ten nods at [14:19] Lauren, and express anticipation about certain films like “The Brutalist” and “Conclave” ([15:02] Lauren). Chelsea humorously voices her lack of familiarity with some nominated films but remains open to exploration ([15:35] Chelsea).

Lauren provides detailed commentary on various categories, critiquing the separation of drama and comedy in acting performances ([16:01] Lauren), while Chelsea exclaims her excitement for standout actors like Sebastian Stan ([16:35] Chelsea). They debate the merit of certain performances, such as discussing Jean Smart’s role in "Hacks" and the fashion implications of nominees like Isabella Rossellini ([19:37] Lauren). Their analysis extends to the directors' category, where they express surprise at notable omissions like Denis Villeneuve and Luca Guadagnino ([20:34] Lauren).

The hosts also touch upon the television categories, praising nominations like Kathy Bates for "Matlock" and expressing skepticism about certain shows, such as “Abbott Elementary” and "Only Murders in the Building" ([22:41] Chelsea & Lauren). They conclude their Golden Globes segment by highlighting the show's host, Nikki Glaser, and anticipating the red carpet fashion ([23:32] Lauren).

5. Unpacking "Wicked": Movie Adaptation Review

Chelsea and Lauren transition to discussing the recent "Wicked" movie adaptation, sharing their mixed reactions to its nearly three-hour runtime and departure from the original musical's structure. Chelsea appreciates the entertainment value and performances by Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande but criticizes the film's aesthetic choices ([37:28] Chelsea: “I just thought it was highly entertaining.”). Lauren echoes similar sentiments, focusing on the expanded backstories and plot inconsistencies, such as Elphaba being raised by a talking bear ([37:57] Lauren).

They debate the visual execution, with Chelsea lamenting the overuse of CGI and digital manipulation that detracts from the film’s authenticity ([37:55] Chelsea: “I think that the whole movie looks like shit.”). Lauren adds that the desaturated color palette and lack of coherent set design contribute to the film’s shortcomings ([38:18] Lauren). Despite their critiques, they acknowledge standout moments like the "Defying Gravity" sequence but remain skeptical about future installments ([43:28] Lauren).

6. Deep Dive: The JonBenét Ramsey Case and New Docu-Series

In a more serious and somber segment, Chelsea and Lauren explore the renewed interest in the unsolved JonBenét Ramsey murder case, propelled by a new Netflix docu-series. Chelsea outlines the basics of the case, emphasizing its unresolved nature and the dubious public perception of the Ramsey family’s involvement ([46:50] Chelsea). Lauren shares insights from the documentary, discussing various theories and the complexities surrounding the investigation, including flawed evidence and the controversial grand jury recommendations ([48:03] Lauren).

Chelsea expresses her frustration with the ongoing mystery and the misleading portrayals in media, highlighting inconsistencies in the Ramsey family's behavior and the ransom note’s questionable authenticity ([50:21] Lauren). Lauren interjects with critical analysis of the documentary’s lack of definitive conclusions, suggesting that even with new evidence, conclusive answers remain elusive ([54:01] Lauren). The hosts debate potential suspects, contemplating both familial and intruder theories, and reflect on the case's impact on their personal lives and podcast dynamics ([56:25] Lauren).

7. Concluding Thoughts and Listener Engagement

As the episode draws to a close, Chelsea urges listeners to contribute their own theories about the JonBenét Ramsey case in the comments section ([59:55] Chelsea), while Lauren hints at upcoming topics and encourages support through their Patreon ([59:53] Lauren). The hosts wrap up with plans to transition to dinner, maintaining their signature blend of humor and candid conversation ([59:49] Lauren).

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Notable Quotes with Speaker Attribution and Timestamps

• Chelsea Fairless:

  • "[00:40] We did it, Joe. We stuck with something."
  • "[01:35] I love Ione and Gita and all of the girls that work there."
  • "[08:44] Wait, I think we have another correction also, don't we?"
  • "[14:33] Yeah, we definitely have to watch that. I'm waiting until it comes out on Netflix though."
  • "[37:28] I just thought it was highly entertaining."
  • "[37:52] I think that the whole movie looks like shit."
  • "[43:28] I have questions about Shiz University, but we'll get into that in a second."
  • "[46:57] It's a three-part docu series."
  • "[57:29] You saw a film at the IFC theater."
  • "[59:49] Thank you for listening. Guys. Come through with your JonBenet theories in the comments section."

• Lauren Garroni:

  • "[00:36] It is our 200th podcast episode."
  • "[02:13] It looks like if you put 1980s boss bitch lawyers into AI, we would come out."
  • "[07:26] Starting at the $10 level, we send you quarterly stickers."
  • "[14:19] I also love the Golden Globes because with the nominations it lets us know which award season films we actually should be watching."
  • "[16:01] Best Motion Picture Drama, which for me not as important as the best motion picture, musical or comedy."
  • "[19:37] I think these are all the categories that we actually care about."
  • "[22:41] We’re such big Matlock fans."
  • "[37:57] Well, we have something to look forward to in this life."
  • "[43:21] This is my point."
  • "[48:03] They present the narrative that the Ramses have always maintained, which is that an intruder did it."
  • "[54:01] I think that’s so cool."
  • "[56:10] Well, they also just can't provide an answer for her murder."
  • "[59:35] Do you remember Patton Oswald's late wife?"

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Insights and Conclusions

Throughout this milestone episode, Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni showcase their deep engagement with both fashion and popular culture, seamlessly blending personal anecdotes with critical analyses of current events in the entertainment industry. Their discussion of the Golden Globes reveals a nuanced understanding of award categories and industry trends, while their candid review of the "Wicked" movie adaptation underscores their passion for maintaining artistic integrity in adaptations.

The segment on the JonBenét Ramsey case illustrates their willingness to tackle heavy and complex topics, offering listeners a blend of factual recounting and personal opinion. Their interactions highlight a dynamic host rapport, characterized by humor, honesty, and a commitment to engaging their audience in meaningful conversations.

As they celebrate their 200th episode, Chelsea and Lauren reaffirm their dedication to the Every Outfit community, inviting listeners to participate actively in ongoing discussions and support the podcast through Patreon. This episode stands as a testament to their growth, resilience, and unwavering enthusiasm for dissecting the interplay between fashion, culture, and societal issues.

Transcript

[Chelsea Fairless]

I spent $40,000 on shoes.

[Lauren Garoni]

What's the matter, Morty?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Coral. The spring 10 to mine on wool dress, floral.

[Lauren Garoni]

The spring break Gowns. Beautiful gowns. Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't. Hi, I'm Lauren Garoni.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garoni]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast. Chelsea, do you know that today's episode is a very special Every Outfit episode? Do you know why?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garoni]

It is because it is our 200th podcast episode.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, that's insane. 200?

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I would have thought that we've recorded, like, 75.

[Lauren Garoni]

We may think that we've only had 75 good episodes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think at best, we've had 40 good episodes.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. But as the person who uploads this podcast, I can tell you I am very sure this is our 200th episode. Wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We did it, Joe. We stuck with something.

[Lauren Garoni]

And look at us now. We completed our first podcast tour.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We are in Australia, in Sydney, in the hotel where Michael Hutchins tragically passed away. RIP King.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, not to dox my hotel room. I will have checked out by the time this episode goes up, so I'm sure it's fine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I don't think we're in the room where he died. Or are we? Michael Hutchins, show yourself.

[Lauren Garoni]

We get into paranormal activity.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, see, I already believe in aliens. I can't also believe in ghosts.

[Lauren Garoni]

What other exciting stuff happened to us? Oh, our polyester magazine shoot debuted so.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exciting in the issue with Sofia Coppola on the COVID which means that she's seen our faces for at least half a second when she flipped through.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's true. When Romy Mars flipped through the magazine for her, I like to think that she saw her giant bouffons. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love Ione and Gita and all of the girls that work there. They're so cool. And I love that polyester has a sense of humor, because when I look at most independent fashion magazines, it's like, whatever happened to fun? Like, why are we doing this?

[Lauren Garoni]

And it was a lot of fun to shoot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Because we had the most insane glam.

[Lauren Garoni]

We shot this the day after we did double shows in London, so I already was a little delirious. And then we spent two hours in hair and makeup and look like. It seems the consensus of people who've seen the photos. We look like if you put 1980s boss bitch lawyers into AI, we would come out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. It was very maximalist, which I appreciate.

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. And then we took those looks to dinner with us afterwards.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A Friend of ours, Ryan, works for Prada and he organized a very chic little dinner at the Prada Cafe. And we looked fully insane when we showed up.

[Lauren Garoni]

That glam at least makes a little more sense in the outfits we were wearing in the shoot, but in our normal street clothes. Plus that herring glam. It was, I'm sure, very disconcerting for the other patrons.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, because when we showed up, it looked more like Dynasty, but by the end of it, it was very Margaret Thatcher.

[Lauren Garoni]

It was giving conservative Tatiana accompanied us on the photo shoot and then we all had a drink afterwards. And then we went to this dinner. And throughout the day, into the evening, even afterwards, all I heard from Tat was like, you've never looked hotter to me. This was directed at you, not myself. And your wife kept telling you that she wanted you dressed like this for a little nightcap together.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, what she said was, I want you to have this hair and meet me down at the bar later. So basically she was insinuating that she wanted some sort of role play scenario. And I'm no prude, but I will not partake in any foreplay that involves acting.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's a hard limit for you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is. So then when we got back to the hotel, she basically like pushes me in the elevator with a key and is like, go upstairs and change. I will be at the bar. So I go upstairs and Lauren, I don't know what came over me, but for some reason I thought that she wanted me to dress like an old Republican woman. I immediately start texting her. I'm like, tat, I can't do this. I can't dress like an old Republican woman. She's not answering my texts, so I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to try and do it. So I put on this dress with a giant pussy bow. It's from Kas, but it's supposed to be like fake Balenciaga, essentially. This leather coat, tights, pumps. I fully looked like Nathan Lane in the birdcage when he's trying to be an old Republican woman. Okay. And then I come down to the bar and I see Tut's face and she's like, what the fuck? Basically, and I at this point am pissed because I'm like, you haven't been answering my text for a half an hour. Like, I've been having a full breakdown. She's been talking to this woman at the bar. This woman is like, is that your wife to Tat? And I'm like, no, because I'm trying to Roleplay.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, this is really giving. When Hannah forced Adam to do role play in, like, season three and he gets punched at the bar.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly. I honestly don't know what came over me. I don't know why I thought she wanted me to look like a Republican. I think it's because she said, put on some tights. And I interpreted that not as fishnets, like a sane human being, but as, like, pantyhose or tights.

[Lauren Garoni]

I love that after this happens.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we got into a full fight at the bar. Not a fight, but, like a squabble is fair. We went back up to the room and then started screaming, laughing. I don't know why I missed the memo. I honestly, I think it's because, like, she grew up in a kind of, like, Republican area. So I'm like, maybe she has, like, some childhood fetish for, like, old Republican women or something. I tried to make that dream come true for her, but there's something so wrong with me, clearly.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, Chelsea, I think a lot of women maybe have this Republican woman fetish because an overwhelming comment that I noticed on the Polyester Instagram post was what seemed to be straight women willing to risk it all with bouffant you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh God, babes, stay with your husbands. You don't want. Whatever this is. This is a lot, clearly. But anyhoo, thank you to the team at Polyester for giving me the biggest laugh of 2024.

[Lauren Garoni]

We had a great time. So we would talk more about our Australian tour or really our down under tour. We can't forget Auckland.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, we cannot exclude New Zealand. They gave us Heavenly Creatures after all.

[Lauren Garoni]

Not a singular Heavenly Creatures reference in our live show though, unfortunately.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that was a missed opportunity.

[Lauren Garoni]

But we plan on talking about our down under tour more in depth on an upcoming VIP episode. So I personally think this would be a great time, a great Christmas present perhaps to join our VIP channels. We also recently did the much requested Sex and the City one film as a rewatch episode, clocking in at nearly two hours long.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So, yes, if you would like to escape your family for two hours or you are traveling. Not the worst idea.

[Lauren Garoni]

And some people have asked what the difference between Patreon and Apple subscriptions is. It really is a matter of preference, but I will say I prefer the Patreon Experience. You get access to ad free episodes. There is a thriving comment section that we respond to mostly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we also enjoy the Patreon Experience as a creator, just FYI. God forbid you ever have to log into Apple Podcasts if you have one.

[Lauren Garoni]

Fellow podcasters understand the horror of logging into Apple podcasts and being like, what's happening here? But also for those that are subscribed on Patreon, Starting at the $10 level, we send you quarterly stickers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes we do. We just sent out our Christmas cards before we went to Australia.

[Lauren Garoni]

And if you sign up for patreon at our $10 level or above before the New Year, I will retroactively send you our Christmas card and Christmas sticker. However, I do want to issue a correction for those that have listened to the Sex and the City VIP episode. Those who may sign up we are aware of the mistake we made. We said that the auction at the beginning of the film happened at Sotheby's. We were mistaken. It happened at Christie's.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We are so sorry.

[Lauren Garoni]

You can stop sending us DMs about this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, I think we have another correction also, don't we?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, we really should. We've been discussing that we do need to possibly begin our episodes with a corrections segment, as we are often that's not, say, incorrect but misinformed about some things. Yes, last week's episode we did four Women and a Funeral, our monthly Sex and the City rewatch episode. And we were discussing towards the end of the episode how we were shocked that the man that resurrects the celebrity that resurrects Samantha's reputation is Leonardo DiCaprio and it is portrayed completely backlit by an actor that looks nothing like Leonardo DiCaprio. And many people commented and dmed us why it doesn't look like Leonardo DiCaprio is because it was actually supposed to be JFK Jr. There are two different reports that this episode aired 12 days before JFK and Carolyn Bessette and her sister passed away. And so in the subsequent reruns, it was adr to be Leonardo DiCaprio.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's insane. Like, why rob him of an amazing pop culture reference? If anything, it's weird that they mentioned him just because didn't him and SJP used to date? Like, that's what makes it weird.

[Lauren Garoni]

They did. At the time that this episode aired, she wasn't a producer yet, so maybe she didn't have as much say as she would have in subsequent seasons to be like, hey, don't mention my ex boyfriend, okay?

[Chelsea Fairless]

But what I don't understand is why replace him with Leonardo DiCaprio when every male actor looks like JFK Jr this.

[Lauren Garoni]

Has happened on Sex and the City. I wouldn't say before, but it did happen in season three. If you remember in the LA episodes, they couldn't nail down the actor that wanted to option Cari's work. So in the scene with Sarah Michelle Geller at the Standard, having drinks with Carrie, when she whispers something, you can see that she's mouthing George Clooney, because that's originally who they wanted to get. And then it went to Warren Beatty and then finally Matthew McConaughey, as God intended.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Speaking of Sex in the City, we have some major news this week. Kristen Davis has a new podcast coming out called Are you a Charlotte? It is an iHeartMedia podcast.

[Lauren Garoni]

Kristen Davis and some very special guests, I wonder who they could be will be talking about the show. The show in question being Sex and the City, its legacy and relevance with women, and of course sex, davis said in a statement to People magazine. There have been numerous people who have asked me over the years to do different versions of a podcast relating to the show, but this time it felt right because our goal is to revisit the themes that the show brought up that are still so relevant today it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Was only a matter of time.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, according to the statement, people have been trying to get her to do a Sex and the City related podcast for years.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's not surprising. Someone more closely aligned with the show had to, right? Like we are the parasites of the Sex and the City extended universe and Kristen Davis is literally Charlotte.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, what I'm so curious about with this podcast is it has become this sub genre podcast where old cast members or cast members from a popular show will get together and do a podcast that is a straight up rewatch episode of the show that they were on. And I don't know if this is exactly that necessarily. It seems like inspired by the themes of Sex and the City.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I guess we'll have to see. But we love Kristen. She's always been so supportive of us and I'm sure the guests will be great. Certainly.

[Lauren Garoni]

The podcast premieres on iHeartRadio on January 13th and some of the fuckettes might be wondering we have not been asked to be guests yet, but we are open and available.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of course we are. Anything for sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, I think enough time has passed.

[Lauren Garoni]

I also love the Golden Globes because with the nominations it lets us know which award season films we actually should be watching. I guess I have to watch Emilia Perez now because it leads with the most nominations at 10.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, we definitely have to watch that. I'm waiting until it comes out on Netflix though.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you know what Emilia Perez is about?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No idea.

[Lauren Garoni]

So I pulled the logline from IMDb because I'm unaware of what this movie is about either. A Mexican lawyer is offered an unusual job to help a notorious cartel boss retire and transition into living as a woman fulfilling a long held desire.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it's a musical.

[Lauren Garoni]

And it's a musical.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure, why not? Hey, it was on John Waters top 10 list. That's good enough for me.

[Lauren Garoni]

I will run down the categories that I think we care about. The top award, Best Motion Picture Drama, which for me not as important as the best motion picture, musical or comedy because this is the only major award show where we get a category like that. But best drama we have the Brutalist, a complete unknown, which is the Timmy Bob Dylan film. Can't wait to see that Conclave which I did. Watch Dune Part 2.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not watching that.

[Lauren Garoni]

I watched it. I can tell you it's quite good. Nickel Boys and something called September 5th.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, what the is nickel, boys?

[Lauren Garoni]

This lets us know what we should be watching. More importantly, best Motion picture, musical or comedy. Honora Challengers. Amelia Perez, A real pain. The Substance. Wicked. Okay, it's always funny when legit musicals are nominated because it happens once every five years. But this is the year where we actually have two musicals.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Hey, I'm not mad.

[Lauren Garoni]

The comedy category is. Is also where a lot of films that aren't technically comedies go to be nominated.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although it is quite funny if you have an extremely dark sense of humor.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, Best performance by an actress in a Motion picture drama. This is a stacked category. Chelsea Pamela Anderson, the Last Showgirl. Angelina Jolie, Maria Nicole Kidman, Baby Girl. Tilda Swinton, the Room Next Door.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I haven't seen any of these movies yet. I can't wait to see them all. And I. Stan. Who else?

[Lauren Garoni]

Fernanda Torres for I'm Still Here. And Kate Winslet in Lee. Once I tell you all the nominees, it makes me so excited for the red carpet because I think we're going to be fed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The mothers will be mothering.

[Lauren Garoni]

The mothers will be mother. God, no. We need to retire that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Hey, babe, you just talked about us being fed.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay. Best performance by an actor in a motion picture drama. Adrien Brody, the Brutalist. I also just want to say we haven't seen most of these films because also, most of these films are not out yet. Yeah, okay. Adrien Brody, the Brutalist. Timothee Chalamet, A complete unknown. Daniel Craig, Queer Coloman, Domingo, Sing Sing. Ray Fiennes in Conclave. And Sebastian Stan in the Apprentice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great.

[Lauren Garoni]

Best performance by an actress in a motion Picture musical or comedy. Way more interesting. Amy Adams in Night. Cynthia Erivo in Wicked. Carla Sofia Gascon in Amelia Perez. Mikey Madison and Enora Zendaya in Challengers. And to me, more in the substance. I'm sorry, Chelsea. I think I'm owed an apology because I believe when we discussed the substance, I said they will try to go the Golden Globes comedy route so that Demi Moore gets a nomination. I believe I got a Chelsea Fairless. You're crazy for that one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, well, I formally apologize. Although I do think that there should be rules that prohibit people from submitting in categories that don't apply to them.

[Lauren Garoni]

This is true, I think, about the fact that Matt Damon won for best comedic actor for the Martian.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Were the other performances that year just like hell on earth in that category? Like, how did that even happen?

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, that's the funny thing is that the Golden Globes have a Comedy category, but they hate comedies. Even when we made comedic films, now we're just in a desert of making actual comedic movies.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that was not a comedy. That was a film about agriculture.

[Lauren Garoni]

It was about poo potatoes. Best performance by an actor in a motion picture, musical or comedy. I'm not going to read all the nominees. I just want to bring to your attention. Hugh Grant in the film Heretic is nominated.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, that. I can't wait to see that.

[Lauren Garoni]

I believe technically a horror film, but sure, why not?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That did come out, but I missed it.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's the great, or maybe unfortunate thing about our current media landscape is that it's all content and they all go out of the theater. Even if it gets a theatrical release in two weeks. So it's already on digital wa. Waiting for you Tell.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, at least there's that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay. Best performance by an actress in a supporting role in any motion picture. Here's what I always forget about the Golden Globes is best actor and actress. They'll separate out by drama and comedy. Supporting actor. They don't give a. In the same way. They're like, you're all together. Selena Gomez, Amelia Perez, Ariana Grande, Wicked. Felicity Jones, the Brutalist. Margaret Qualley, the Substance. Isabella Rossellini, Conclave. Zoe Saldana, Amelia Perez.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great lineup there, too.

[Lauren Garoni]

The fashion is going to be good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Can't wait to see what Isabella Rossellini wears.

[Lauren Garoni]

As someone who's seen Conclave, she does not deserve this nomination for that role, but I'm happy she's nominated and I agree with you. I can't wait to see what she wears on the red carpet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, she deserves a nomination for those, like, series of videos that she did about how, like, insects fuck anytime.

[Lauren Garoni]

You saw a film at the IFC theater.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, so best director, Motion picture. I'm so sorry, guys. I can't say his name, but it's the French director of Emilia Perez. Sean Baker for Nora, Edward Berger for Conclave, Bradley Corbett, the Brutalists, Coralie Forget for the Substance and someone named Payel Capadilla for All We Imagine as Light. I bring up the director category because there's been a bit of controversy because Denis Villeneuve nor Luca Guadagnino are nominated in the best director category, which is odd because their films are nominated in the best picture category.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but this always happens with the Oscars, too. It's because there's 10 nominees. There's 10 nominees for films between musical and comedy. There's 10 nominees for best picture at the Oscars. So it stands to reason that half of those directors will not be nominated. It's just not possible. And I think people always take it as a slight. And I understand, like, obviously, when no women are ever nomin, that does say something. But, you know, it also is just kind of part of the game.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know, but Luca Guadagnino has not one, but two films nominated. He has challengers and queer.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, you raise a good point.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you want me to get into the TV categories?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I will say that I scanned the TV nominees and disclaimer did a lot better than I thought it would.

[Lauren Garoni]

But here's the thing about the Golden Globes and why you can never really take it to heart who they award. Because the Hollywood Foreign Press has a soft spot for British shows. I would consider disclaimer a British show. Like, I can easily see Cate Blanchett winning in her category.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Except for baby reindeer is going to eat all of them alive. Right? That would be the same category.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ooh, yes, they do love. Also a British newcomer. Also, guys, I'm aware that Cate Blanchett is Australian. She plays a Brit in the show. That's why I'm saying that you're already.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Preventing correction from next week's episode. I love that.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm trying. Well, the other confusing thing is that because of the pandemic and because of the way that the bear released, there were times this year where it's like, at one award show, the bear season one was winning, but at another award show, the bear season two was winning. And now I believe the bear season three got nominated. And I gotta tell you, doesn't deserve it. Not a good season. Excited for season four, though.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. What else in the TV category do we care about, though?

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I feel, like, exciting to us. Kathy Bates was nominated for best actress in a television drama for Matlock because.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We'Re such big Matlock fans.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm just saying we like that she's nominated, of course, best performance by an actress in a television series, musical or comedy. I like how even for tv, the Golden Globes is leaving the door open for musicals. Your favorite, Chelsea. Kristen Bell. And nobody wants this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay? It's not like I dislike her. I just, like, didn't watch Veronica Mars. So sue me.

[Lauren Garoni]

Quinta Brunson in Abbott elementary, Iowa. Debris in the bear. Selena Gomez. Only murders in the building. Can you believe she is nominated for a TV show and film and won best actress at Cannes?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is Selena gonna egot?

[Lauren Garoni]

Like she's gonna egot before Cynthia Nixon?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of all of the people I just.

[Lauren Garoni]

Would have never thought Katherine Hahn and Agatha all along. And Jean Smart in hacks. I really feel like that could go to anybody.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But hopefully Jean Smart and hacks.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think these are all the categories that we actually care about. And who cares to read any more? Because we only have to wait until January 5th when the show will air. It's hosted by the comedian Nikki Glaser. I see this is registering for you, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, no, no. I see like her stand up specials on Netflix. I just haven't watched them.

[Lauren Garoni]

She is also coming off of a vi as the emcee for the Tom Brady roast. I guess Tom Brady didn't understand what a roast was and was quite shocked at the jokes at his expense during it. Which is kind of the best subject for a roast. What?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because all the jokes were about him being a dumb jock?

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm assuming him losing Giselle and losing his family.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, yeah. That's harsh if you don't see that coming.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, she was incredible. She's very funny and pretty glamorous. So I'm excited to see her host. It will be airing on CBS and Paramount plus. Paramount plus, I think the only app I don't own.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Really? Because I feel like there's stuff that we watch on Paramount plus.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm gonna be honest, I just drive over to my parents house and use their Paramount plus account.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, moving on. Shall we talk about some fashion stuff?

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. Matu Blasi is the new artistic director, creative director.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I.

[Lauren Garoni]

One of them, the new director at Chanel. So Blasey will be in charge of all fashion, couture and accessories for Chanel. Which means he will be creating 10 collections a year.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Best of luck to him.

[Lauren Garoni]

Although we will have to wait until next October, which is when he will make his debut during the Paris shows in October.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we have something to look forward to in this life. This wouldn't have been my number one choice for this job, but I'm excited about it. I'm glad they picked him. He's a very modern designer. That is something that Chanel has been severely lacking in for years. Really?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. I love this quote from Chanel's president of fashion. He told the New York Times, we have a lot of confidence in Matthieu's capacity to bring modernity and a different approach to Chanel. He was also later quoted saying, Chanel needs to be pertinent.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's just that Chanel is so associated with Lagerfeld almost even more than Coco Chanel at this point because that look has just been around for such a long time.

[Lauren Garoni]

For the president of fashion to say that Chanel needs to be pertinent feels like a pretty shady read of Virgin Virand's reign at Chanel.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, but that was just an extension of Karl Lagerfeld. The look of Chanel didn't change, and we need someone to come into that job that is not going to want to feel compelled to make weird little rompers.

[Lauren Garoni]

He might feel compelled to make weird little rompers, but they'll be the best rompers you've ever seen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We just need a silhouette that's different, I think, more than anything, really. And I'm excited to see what that is.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I mean, Chanel is something that is eternal, but it's never been cool. Exactly. And what Mathieu Blasey did at Bottega Veneta is very cool. Was very cool. Is very cool. And I think he's going to make Chanel cool.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think it has been cool in the past, but I think it's just been very stagnant for a long time. And it's certainly not leading the fashion conversation in any regard. You know, it's not setting trends, it's not pushing fashion forward in Paris, where Chanel Dior should be leading the conversation in theory, but that just hasn't been the case.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, I saw a tweet that was like, I would love to see what the Chanel ambassador group chat looks like right now. Like, this idea that Lily Rose Depp, Margaret Qualley, Margot Robbie are all texting each other of, like, our. Our blood oath might finally be worth it now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, if I was him, I would get rid of all of them and just start fresh. No shade to Lily Rose Depp and Margaret Qualley, who are amazing, obviously, But I would just want it to have a completely different identity.

[Lauren Garoni]

But that's what's so interesting about ambassadors, because I would imagine that when the creative head of a fashion house leaves, so does the ambassadors, that they obviously pick themselves. That's why I think it's so funny that Jared Leto and Dakota Johnson are still associated with Gucci. Like, clearly that contract extended beyond Alessandro Michelley's reign.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I find that to be incredibly awkward. And if I was Sabato di Sarno, I would not want that. Because what screams Alessandro Michelley more than Jared Leto and Dakota Johnson? Miley Cyrus carrying through that worked somehow.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I mean, are there Bottega girlies, though?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They haven't really been marketing it like that. Like, in the Daniel Lee era, they had pretty cool people in the ad campaigns. Well, I guess A$AP Rocky is a Bottega girly.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know who I would love for Matthieu to make his Chanel ambassador is Tracee Ellis Ross.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just want someone older because let's be real, Chanel is a brand for older women. Let's have some age diversity in the casting, in the shows, in the ads. I think that would make it cooler.

[Lauren Garoni]

Certainly Chanel should be like mew mew during that one show where they had their top client walk in the Runway show and she was like a 70 year old woman.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Ye. Exactly.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, all we can do right now is fan cast. And my fan cast is that I hope Matthew Blasey gets rid of what I have taken to calling the Chanel trash bag.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I hope he just loosens up the silhouette a bit.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Given that his debut collection for Bottega featured what people thought. Right. That outfit that Kate Moss was in that people thought was just a plaid shirt and jeans, but really it was a plaid shirt and jeans made out of leather.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, so now he's just gonna make a pair of jeans that look like jeans, but it's actually tweed.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, it's the Chanel tweed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Other news, it was finally announced that John Galliano is leaving Margiela. As everyone suspected, we were all hoping.

[Lauren Garoni]

Slash fan casting, that he was leaving Margiela to go to Chanel, which, I mean, was never actually going to happen. We just hoped.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it could have happened. They have no beef with him necessarily.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's true. And they're one of the few. I think them and Hermes are the only big fashion houses that are not owned by a larger conglomerate. And by larger conglomerate, we mean Arnaud or Pino.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, and Dolce and Gabbana, although certainly they're not on Chanel or Hermes's level.

[Lauren Garoni]

And how are we categorizing Capri Group, also known as Michael Kors, which owns Versace? Anyway, back to Galliano. He's out at Margiela, but where is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He going to now? Because there is now a lack of prestige luxury houses for him to go to. Now that Sarah Burton is at Givenchy, Matthew is at Chanel. Italian labels not feeling correct for this man.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, we've gone from fashion fan casting to now it really does feel like a game of musical chairs.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There's still Dior. Of course. The job that he was fired from, that would be incredible. Although it does seem that that job will likely go to Jonathan Anderson. Although they haven't announced that what's her face is leaving. So who knows what will happen. Dior would be amazing, obviously. Also, LVMH still owns his namesake brand, which they're not doing anything with. So that's a possibility too.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. For those who don't know this bit of fashion history, when Galliano was fired from Dior, LVMH basically shelved his own brand, his namesake brand, which they owned and had invested in.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, they didn't shelve it. They kept it on for seasons. They replaced him with another designer.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. But now they're doing nothing with it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Now they're doing nothing. But I loved that tweet that was like, john Galliano is going to skims. Kim's probably the only person that could afford him beyond one of these big luxury houses.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm not one for, like, my 2025 bingo card, but a capsule John Galliano skims collection. I'm gonna put that on my bingo card, actually.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I feel like we should mention that they immediately announced who is replacing Michu at Bottega Veneta. It is Louise Trotter, who is currently the creative director of Carvin. And that makes sense when you look at the kind of clothes that she's been making for Carvin. Although I will admit that I have not been following Carvin super closely ever.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know, Chell, if not you, then probably not anyone. Except maybe Vanessa Friedman.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They try and make it happen, like, every 10 years. I mean, I guess they try and make it happen all the time, but it just doesn't happen.

[Lauren Garoni]

No. It's fascinating that Korezh has had more of an impact than the Carvin rebrand.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's crazy, though, how ran through Bottega Veneta is considering the fact that they are currently thriving, but how many creative directors can they sustain? They lucked out hugely with both Daniel Lee and Michubelzi. So we'll see what happens with that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Galliano takes over for Daniel Lee at Burberry, perhaps.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, that's actually not a bad idea because no one cares about Burberry, and.

[Lauren Garoni]

Burberry so desperately wants someone to fuck with Burberry.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that actually not the worst idea.

[Lauren Garoni]

I would buy it, but poor Daniel Lee. Ousted out of Bottega, and then he would be ousted out of Burberry. That'd be very sad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It would be sad considering how talented he is.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, those are our fashion predictions. We'll see if they happen. I'm still rooting for. Yeah, Skims X John Galeado. Capsule.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Moving on, Guys, we finally saw Wicked.

[Lauren Garoni]

What is this we stuff? You saw Wicked and Then insisted we had to talk about it on the podcast. So therefore, while I was in Sydney getting over jet lag, I went to a theater and watched Wicked, a movie that clocks in at nearly three hours. That you promised me would not feel like three hours.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It did not feel like three hours to me.

[Lauren Garoni]

I felt every minute of that movie, Chelsea, and not in the way you wanted me to see.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I thought it was delightful.

[Lauren Garoni]

Riddle me this, Chelsea. The movie is 10 minutes longer than the actual musical, which wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that this is only the first part of the movie adaptation of the musical.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know that I'm not a Wicked head, so I don't know what they actually did. I would venture to guess that they added some new songs and added some plot that was potentially from the book and not from the musical to stretch this out over two films.

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. But I think the bigger problem with the runtime is this, Chelsea, and I think you have to give at least this to me. How is this movie nearly three hours long and yet there are, like, seven scenes in this movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's true. There are seven scenes. There's like, the Goat professor scenes, which I loved that. And frankly, I'm glad that at least one little person was employed.

[Lauren Garoni]

You are referring to the fact that Peter Dinklage provides the voice of the Goat Professor?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Guys, we're just gonna say I saw Wicked the musical once, 15 years ago. Chelsea's never seen it. If you are Wicked heads that are also, I'm sure you are going to be screaming and seething the next episode. We do. They're going to have to be a lot of Wicked related corrections. Just bear with us. Okay, so the movie begins with the end of the wizard of Oz, right? The Wicked Witch of Miss Sound like Winona Rider and Heather's the West. The East. God damn it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

One of them's dead.

[Lauren Garoni]

Cynthia Rivo is dead, and everyone is rejoicing. Okay, so the Munchkins in Munchkin Land are bigger people. However, I've subsequently learned through wizard of Oz trivia that because in the wizard of Oz book, Dorothy is actually nine, but they aged her up to be Judy Garland's actual age of 16 that to balance it out, they made the Munchkins little people.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, apparently in the book the wizard of Oz, the Munchkins are the same height as Dorothy, so they would be taller than the Munchkins in the wizard of Oz.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, so it's still fucked up that they did that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, in theory, they should all be the Same height as a 10 year old girl or however old she's supposed to be.

[Lauren Garoni]

So the narrative device, right, is that Glinda delivers the news that the Wicked Witch of. Of the east or West. God damn it. Cynthia Rivo is dead. And then one person is like, hey, didn't you used to know her? And then it's like. And we go back in time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So that's one of the scenes.

[Lauren Garoni]

I will say I did research the difference between the movie and the musical. So the movie expands on the characters, backstories and relationships. For example, the movie shows Elphaba's childhood, including how she was raised by a talking bear. Did not enjoy that talking bear. To see a woman give birth and have a bear standing on its hind legs as its midwife three minutes into the movie was very upsetting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I liked all of the talking animals. I felt so bad when they were persecuted.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. Which is another part I have to imagine came from the book. That was it in the musical.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Was there a bear midwife in the musical? Someone let us know.

[Lauren Garoni]

You obviously love this movie more than I, although you're agreeing with all my points. What did you like about Wicked?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just thought it was highly entertaining. And I think Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande were both great. They had great chemistry. I think the music is great. I think it was uplifting. I don't fucking know. It was escapist. That said, I am not without my criticisms. My number one criticism of this film is a big one, which is that I do think that the whole movie looks like shit.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh yeah. We're not the first people to say this. The movie does not look good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it looks AI generated. It looks like the creative director was mid journey. I don't like how digitally manipulated everything looks. And I really, really don't like this sort of art nouveau meets steampunk aesthetic of Oz. Like when they finally got there, I was like, no, you did warn me.

[Lauren Garoni]

About the steampunk of it all. And it did not bother me as much as it bothered you. I always think about this in films that are technically prequels. Like if a child watched these films in chronological order in the sense that this is basically a prequel to the wizard of Oz. If a child watched this first and then the wizard of Oz and then.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Returned to Oz, they would have so many questions.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I guess they have to watch that Sam Raimi 1, the great and powerful Oz, somewhere in between as well as the Wiz. It's incredibly desaturated. And in a world where Barbie looked the way that it did. To be fair, the DP of Barbie was Martin Scorsese's dp. But they at least built everything. I am aware they built most of it. And then you can see the expanded horizons are blue screen. But it is so incredibly desaturated. The majority of the film takes place at Shiz University. I have questions about Shiz University, but we'll get into that in a second. But most of the scenes that take place in their dorm room, because of the way that the set is, they are constantly backlit and it looks awful. That is really what is eating how bad the movie looks.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but it just shows a lack of taste in general. Like, you can make a magical fantasy land that doesn't look like poor things just came out. It can be done. It's not even about it being contemporary. Although I maintain that, like, special effects, digital manipulation has gotten so out of control. The special effects in the wizard of Oz looked better than this. I don't think things have improved since the 1930s, really. Like, the other day we were talking about Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast, which has better special effects, a higher taste level. And that was from the 40s. You know, we're overthinking it. And it's like, with technology, I think a lot of these directors really lose the plot and they end up getting addicted to this stuff. Like, I feel like directors now use CGI the way that Jocelyn Wildenstein is addicted to plastic surgery. It's like they don't know when to stop and they don't know when things stop looking good.

[Lauren Garoni]

And they also think it's an easier alternative because I don't know how much of it is the directors or it's studio interference and pressure. Because I remember Greta Gerwig talking about the studio's inability to understand when she was describing how she wanted to do the production design and art direction for Barbie, where she was like, all the sets are fake. And they were like, great, so we'll just CGI everything. She's like, no, no, they're fake in the sense that they don't look real. But we're going to build everything. And that's the level of taste that you kind of needed for this Wicked film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, they should have done that for Wicked. It would have had more continuity with the wizard of Oz and the Broadway show.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know that John M. Chu, who directed the film, has made a point of that. This was a conscious decision as a sort of a visual marker to make it different than the wizard of Oz. But it's like, like. But it's all of a piece. Don't you want someone to go from one film to another?

[Chelsea Fairless]

One would think.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, let's leave this behind. Can we get into some logic questions I have about the world they're presenting?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

So is Shiz University a four year accredited college? Also, what's the unemployment rate in Oz? Is this a cashless society? At one point, when Glinda and Elphaba get to Oz, they just like, pick up something and I'm like, is this a cashless society? Is there universal basic income? Because it seems that no one is working yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They do have a vaguely evil overlord. Right. Jeff Goldblum, which. This is my other criticism. I don't think he was right for this.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I say this as someone who can't sing. He cannot sing. And he does have a song and dance number. And he sings about as well as I think I would sing in a movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, it's bad. We could have had Nathan Lane behind that curtain. You know what I mean? Like, why not Mandy Patinkin? Just someone that could sing would be ideal.

[Lauren Garoni]

This is the other confusion I have. And I'm sure Wicked heads will correct us, but in the wizard of Oz, Dorothy kills the Wicked Witch of the West. But we learn in this part of Wicked. I feel like Dorothy's mission and Elphaba's mission is the same, which is they realize the wizard is full of shit and his empire of monkeys needs to be brought down.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

Also, are we supposed to be pro Glinda? Because Glinda's quite the fucking bootlicker in this movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I agree. I think this is a slightly more sympathetic portrayal of Glinda than in Wicked the Musical. But I may be wrong.

[Lauren Garoni]

You can't do that to Ariana Grande. Well, all I could think about during the end sequence. It does have a very anti police sentiment in a way. It was sort of like Awab. All wizards are bastards is how I felt.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Awab is so good. I love that. Well, we have to talk about the defying gravity of it all.

[Lauren Garoni]

Before we get into defying gravity, the third seed of this film is when they go to the underground water cave club.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. That was so fun.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, no, that was fun. I'm actually on your side with this, which is the moment where Glinda's like, oh, I may be too much of a. Is when she gives Elphaba her ugly. What we would know is a witch's hat.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a fabulous hat, though.

[Lauren Garoni]

So this is my point. Everyone is dressed so wonky in this film that I'm like, is Elphaba's hat so bad?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think it's bad. I think it's great. I think there's also a lack of taste at Shiz University.

[Lauren Garoni]

Like, what's the employment rate at Shiz University? Is it sort of like when you study acting at USC and it's like, maybe one of you in each class will be famous?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, is that why they're getting rid of the goat Professor? Because all the animals are taking their jobs?

[Lauren Garoni]

There's definitely a xenophobic parallel that they are trying to make with this film. Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, for sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

And they're trying to take the voices away from the animals however they want to give the monkeys wings. I don't get it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It'll make them better spies.

[Lauren Garoni]

Lauren, here's where I fucked with this film is it was a secret police state message film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but did you get chills during Defying Gravity?

[Lauren Garoni]

You mean the 45 minute defying gravity sequence?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. That is the breakout song of the musical Wicked. Even if you are not a musical person, like, I am not. You have to love that song. And it's. It's wonderful.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is wonderful. Although I do think that the maximalism of the film did distract from her performance at the end of the day, because everything is so digitally manipulated, you almost don't realize, like, that's a real person with a real voice coming out of it.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right when she's CGI flying through Oz while she figures out how to use a broom while also singing Defying Gravity.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. To me, it's a little bit like gilding a lily. Like, I think the Oscars performance is going to blow this out of the water because we'll see that it's from a person.

[Lauren Garoni]

I would say that I'm not going to see Wicked Part 2, but of course I am. I have to talk about it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's called, like, Wicked. Do Good.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, it's not.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Do Better.

[Lauren Garoni]

Too Wicked. Too Good. What do you mean? It has a subtitle.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It has a subtitle. They just announced it. Wicked for kids who can't read Good.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, you are correct. It is called Wicked for Good. Coming out November 21, 2025. And I suppose given that the last press tour started a year ago. The Wicked for Good press tour starts after Christmas. I need a break.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, let's move on.

[Lauren Garoni]

Another thing I've discovered recently during our tour is that Chelsea has yet another hyper fixation in the form of the unsolved murder case of JonBenet Ramsey, which was, I guess reawakened for you because of this new Netflix docu series.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, who Killed JonBenet Ramsey? Currently very popular on Netflix. It is a three part docu series.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, before we dive into this, do you want to give a little bit of a primer for those who are not aware of the JonBenet Ramsey? Are we still considering an unsolved murder?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is an unsolved murder. So JonBenet Ramsey, six year old girl, child, beauty queen, is found dead on boxing day in 1996. Her parents and her brother were in the house at the time of her death. They never caught the killer, but in the court of public opinion, everyone thought the parents did it because of their weird ass TV interviews and a bunch of other factors. And then in 2016, there was another JonBenet Ramsey docu series that came out. CBS did it. I forget what it was called, but that basically mainstreamed the idea that it was actually Burke, JonBenet's brother, that killed her.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. And then he did an interview on Dr. Phil immediately afterwards, which my memory of that is he was very bizarre, which only made the public think that he really did do it. To the point where I believe he sued Dr. Phil and won an undisclosed settlement.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Or he didn't sue Dr. Phil, he sued CBS.

[Lauren Garoni]

Correct. And he won a settlement for that. It would seem that this, this Netflix docu series is a response to that 2016 docu series because they present a different narrative.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They present the narrative that the Ramses have always maintained, which is that an intruder did it. Although that is essentially propaganda. And this entire Netflix series is a complete joke. And it's insane that people actually believe this shit.

[Lauren Garoni]

Guys, this is what I have been hearing all week. If I may, I feel like I do need to tune you up a little bit. I don't know, Chelsea. The documentary said John and Papsy Ramsey didn't have anything to do with their daughter's death. And all the evidence that pointed to them was actually false. Their handwriting didn't match and there was no DNA evidence.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, I hate you so much right now. Basically, after watching who killed JonBenet Ramsey? I was like, like, okay, I actually can't deal with not knowing who killed her anymore. And so that Tell the fuckettes where.

[Lauren Garoni]

You went to on the Internet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I went to the JonBenet Ramsey subreddit and I'm not a big true crime person, but the extent that this subreddit has taken over my life is crazy. I've spent. I don't even wanna know how much time in there. A couple hours a day, I would say for the last three weeks.

[Lauren Garoni]

Guys, she gets push notifications from the subreddit. So all throughout our tour tat, Paul and I will like periodically look over at Chelsea and she is on her phone reading the subreddit. She speaks a whole new language now. What are the different people?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, well, the people in the subreddit either identify themselves as BDI Burke did it, bdia Burke did it. All meaning the blunt force trauma and the strangulation in the sexual assault. There's P.D.I. patsy did it, J.D.I. john did it, and Idi intruder did it. Which literally no one believes. Apart from people who have just watched the Netflix series and are only coming in now.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's tough not to get too gruesome about the details. But what I learned through this documentary that is inarguable is there was some form of blunt force trauma. Was it a flashlight? Was she hit against the edge of a tub? And then she was either dragged or further choked by a garrote that was made from paint supplies.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, Patsy Ramsey's paintbrushes.

[Lauren Garoni]

So I will say this documentary is really neither here nor there for me because it doesn't make that strong of a point that the Ramses didn't have anything to do with this. It really just the first episode into the second episode is just a straightforward chronology of what happened on the day and for the years afterwards.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, and we should also mention that John Ramsey, the dad, was involved in this docuseries. Burke did not make an appearance. He just blew his load with Dr. Phil, I guess. But to people wondering, why do you think an intruder didn't do this? There are many reasons, but I will say it's because there are no signs of a break in. JonBenet had no defensive wounds. The way that the Ramses responded to the ransom note was psychotic. The way that they responded on the day that she died was crazy. The ransom note itself is crazy. A lot of people believe that Patsy wrote it with or without John's help. And if an intruder was responsible for this, we have to believe a truly insane story. Whereas it's much easier to understand. Someone in the family accidentally killed her and they tried to stage the crime to make it look like a murder and a sexual assault so that one of the family members could avoid, you know, going to jail. Not that Burke would have gone to jail, but he would have certainly been labeled as a little. We need to talk about Kevin.

[Lauren Garoni]

But Chelsea, it couldn't be Patsy because John says in the documentary she had just survived ovarian cancer. All she cared about was life. Why would she hurt her little girl?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Patsy was not the most stable person.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm sorry, I'm having too much fun being a contrarian and just watching you lose your mind.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And look, guys, like, after being in this subreddit for as long as I have, I still haven't firmly landed on who I think did it. I'm currently leaning pdi. Patsy did it. But I am also kind of bdi.

[Lauren Garoni]

Can this be like a zodiac thing where you're, you know, your son is Patsy did it, but your moon is Burke did it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that's the thing. It was a group effort. Burke certainly didn't write the ransom note. And the ransom note is the most insane piece of evidence in this case.

[Lauren Garoni]

And look there. Obviously there have been random intruders that have kidnapped little blonde girls. I think about Elizabeth Smart. I remember that there was a case of a home invasion where they took the family to a bank to get money out and executed all of them. Like these things do happen. But the logic fail that they do not get into in this documentary. And I will say this as a relatively objective person, certainly more objective than you are, is if it was indeed an intruder, he didn't actually kidnap her, so he accidentally killed her. And then to buy himself some time. I'm sorry to gender it, but I'm going to assume if an intruder did it, was a man wrote a ransom note that was not going to lead to anything. Because for those who don't know this case by the way, she was found in her house later that day in the basement. So that's where things don't exactly make sense. Here's what I will give this case. Quite like the O.J. simpson case. He was able to get away with it because so many things went wrong for the prosecution. It would never happen that way again. I feel that way about the JonBenet Ramsey case, is that so many things worked in their favor.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, the tragic thing about it is that this case was easily solvable within the first 24 hours. If the family members had been separated immediately, if they hadn't let the Ramses have all of their friends over at the house contaminating the crime scene, literally cleaning the house, there would be more evidence. And that I never understand because it's like, okay, let's say that you think this is a kidnapping. That's still a crime scene, babes. Also worth noting that Patsy was in the same outfit from the Christmas party that she wore the night before with undisturbed hair when the cops showed up. So things like that not mentioned in the Netflix series.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think when you told me about this documentary, I did think it was gonna be completely on the side of the Ramseys. But what I was intrigued to find out is you learn at the end of the second episode, beginning of the third episode, that that there was a grand jury to bring this to trial if there was enough evidence. I didn't realize that there's a jury within a grand jury. And. And the Ramses thought that they were going to be arrested. They say in the documentary they made plans for Burke to be watched by, I believe, John Ramsey's brother. But the DA did not bring charges against them. But you learn that years later, members of the grand jury spoke and they said that they felt that there was probable cause to charge the Ramsey.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, yeah, those documents about the grand jury's recommendation were unsealed a little over a decade ago, and they recommended that two charges be filed against John and Patsy, which one was child abuse resulting in death. So it was more like negligence. Right. It's not like you murdered her, but you put her in a situation which resulted in her death. And the other charge was basically impeding the investigation of the police. And I think they probably just thought that would never be unsealed. So it's kind of easy for them to say that they were never charged with anything, which they weren't. But that wasn't what the grand jury.

[Lauren Garoni]

Concluded, and they felt that there was not enough evidence.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, they also just can't provide an answer for her murder. Right. Because you can't say beyond a reasonable doubt that Patsy did it over John. Or like, there's no way of proving that unless someone in the family decides to flip on each other.

[Lauren Garoni]

I remember this case because JonBenet Ramsey would be, what, two years younger than me, six years younger than you. I mean, we were kids when this story happened. But you made this point that I think that it's. This case has been alive for so long. One, one, because it's never been solved. But two, the amount of footage of JonBenet as a child because of these pageants. And also just the shady characters, understandably so, that congregate around the world of, like, child pageantry.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. Because it wasn't just that there were, like, a million hours of home video of her performing on stage. There was also all of those portraits of her that we became so familiar with through tabloids because her, her mother had taken her to all these creepy, you know, child portrait studio. Creepy pedophile photographers like the one mentioned in the documentary that was later, you know, convicted of possessing child pornography did take many of the most famous photos of her.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I do feel for the Ramsey's and I would say John Ramsey's argument is that we were basically convicted of this crime just for the fact that our daughter was in these patches and that we put her in a position to be sexualized, which is true. But the way that people extrapolated that, like they show in the documentary that Geraldo Rivera on his daytime talk show did a mock trial.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that was crazy.

[Lauren Garoni]

They did a mock trial to convict the Ramses or not based on footage. And there is this one woman who's like, like, well, Patsy did it. And Geraldo Rivera is like, what makes you say that? She goes, I've watched 23 hours of pageantry footage and she references a video of her of JonBenet Ramsey a couple days before her death, a week before her death, performing at a mall where the woman says that JonBenet is masturbating on a saxophone that she's playing. And, and when you see the footage, JonBenet has the saxophone a good distance away from her. She is not riding the saxophone the way that this woman says she is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, there's nothing sexual about it. I think these are the same kind of people that are obsessed with like pedophile sex cults and stuff.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh yeah, these are the people that are still canceling Balenciaga.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, for sure.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, I'm fascinated by this documentary only for the fact that it has shown me that Chelsea is a new rabbit hole. She's gone down. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Guys literally don't watch it. It's full propaganda. And I will let you know when I do come to a conclusion about who I feel committed this crime.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do you remember Patton Oswald's late wife? She's the woman that ultimately caused the Golden State Killer. Yes, yes, of course. I feel like this might be you. Like you leave this podcast behind because you need to investigate JonBenet's murder.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's just so fucked up that we still don't know the amount of resources that law enforcement have put into this. Like, it's insane.

[Lauren Garoni]

Anyway, it seems like we could talk about this for hours more, but I must put a stop to this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, we gotta go to dinner. Thank you for listening. Guys. Come through with your JonBenet theories in the comments section.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Hope to see you on Patreon all right, guys, bye.