Anxiety Makes Me Productive: John Lano on Marketing, GEO, and the Voice Over Website Fix

Summary

Podcast Summary

Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott

Episode Title: Anxiety Makes Me Productive: John Lano on Marketing, GEO, and the Voice Over Website Fix
Date: February 19, 2026
Host: Marc Scott
Guest: John Lano (“Voiceover Genie”)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Marc Scott interviews voice actor and website specialist John Lano, exploring how John’s anxiety fuels his productivity, the ever-evolving landscape of voiceover marketing, and actionable strategies for building websites that actually drive work. They take a deep dive into modern website best practices for voice actors, discussing the shift from SEO to Generative Engine Optimization (GEO/AI SEO), social media tactics, and the importance of speaking to the buyer’s needs rather than focusing only on creative self-promotion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Owning Anxiety and Turning It Into a Strength

• John’s Statement: “My anxiety makes me productive.”
  • John opens up about dealing with anxiety and panic attacks since starting his voiceover career right out of college. He explains that confronting and joking about his anxiety not only takes away its power but also motivates him to keep moving forward.
• Relatability & Isolation:
  • Both Marc and John agree that the nature of voiceover work can magnify feelings of anxiety and isolation—making community even more crucial.
• Quote:

  “One of my strategies is to just own it and make fun of it and make… that feeling of anxiety is what moves me ahead, what gets me… it has helped me be productive at times to kind of, you know, work through it.” –John [01:29]

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2. Navigating Social Media Pressure & Imposter Syndrome

• Cancel Culture and Social Anxiety:
  • Marc expresses a fear that a misunderstood social media post could end his business, noting the heightened tension of online communication. John distinguishes between fear of public cancellation and imposter syndrome, admitting the latter has been a consistent challenge throughout his career—even more so as he takes on new roles.
• Continuous Learning:
  • John reframes his imposter syndrome as a reminder to keep learning.
• Quote:

  “If I'm not seeing myself as someone who doesn't know everything, then I'm going to stop learning.” –John [05:47]

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3. Maximizing LinkedIn for VO Marketing

• LinkedIn Premium Discussion:
  • Value Proposition:
    • John argues Premium is most useful for “power users” who are active daily. The biggest advantage: direct, in-feed call-to-action buttons driving traffic straight to your website.
    • Other perks: seeing who views your profile (hot leads for outreach).
    • Drawback: More InMail credits are not worth it for VO professionals; authentic relationship-building is preferred.
  • No Extra Reach Promise:
    • Unlike Meta Verified or X, LinkedIn Premium doesn’t guarantee additional reach, but John surmises that the Premium badge and comment authority may yield more profile visits.
  • Quote:

    “So much of what I do is driving people to a website. That’s my whole goal.” –John [07:27]
    “If you’re signing up [for Premium] to get more InMail messages, you’re doing your outbound marketing wrong.” –John [13:07]

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4. Rethinking the Voice Actor Website: From Self-Promotion to Solution Provider

• Common Mistake:
  • Most VO websites focus on showcasing the talent, not solving the buyer’s problem.
  • Buyers don’t care about your name/photo—they care about their project’s solution.
• Outbound Marketing Strategy:
  • Your website design and content hinge on your outbound marketing approach and the type of client you’re targeting (experienced voice buyers vs. local first-timers).
• Niche Pages and AI Optimization:
  • Identify what makes you unique (voice, accent, genre, etc.) and create highly specific subpages or landing pages for those niches. This positions your site as a cited source in LLMs like ChatGPT, Gemini, or Claude.
  • Be explicit in your copy—don’t expect demos to do all the work. “Tell the robots” what you offer.
• SEO vs. GEO/AI SEO:
  • Traditional SEO foundations remain crucial; “black hat” shortcuts in AI SEO currently work but are being phased out as AIs get smarter.
  • Winning at AI SEO means creating truly helpful, explicit content (not just more keywords).
• Quote:

  “They focus it so much on themselves that they forget about who am I actually trying to attract here.” –John [00:25], repeated [16:31]
  “If you have a very, very specific niche… there’s a real opportunity right now to create pages on your website that speak to that very specific niche.” –John [19:45]

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5. Practical Website Fixes: What VOs Get Wrong & How to Stand Out

a. Hero Section (“Above the Fold”)

• Typical Problem:
  • Name, photo, demos—nothing more.
• Better Approach:
  • State immediately whom you serve, what you do, and the type of voice you offer.
  • Write for the buyer: speak to their pain points and needs.
  • Visual and copy in the hero section should preempt questions—let the buyer know quickly if you’re right for them.
• Quote:

  “Your name, your picture doesn't really mean anything to them… you’re missing an opportunity there to speak directly to your buyer.” –John [09:15, 32:23]

b. Case Studies / Featured Work

• Case Studies vs. Wall of Work:
  • Don’t just list every project—pick a few and break down not just the work but the story and context: client challenge, your solution, process, and results.
    • Helps buyers see themselves in the project.
    • Subtly communicates your process, reliability, and authority.
    • SEO benefit: more relevant copy and crosslinking.
• Refreshing Content:
  • Regularly add case studies—shows growth and activity; aligns with how video production companies already pitch themselves.
• Quote:

  “The idea behind it is… we want them to see themselves in it.” –John [38:28]

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6. Content for Buyers: FAQ Sections & Answering Real Client Questions

• Content Prep:
  • Gather the most FAQ from real clients over time—each can be a blog post, a section, or a dedicated FAQ page.
  • FAQ sections are prime for surfacing in AI-driven search and LLMs.
  • Interlink your pages—ensure navigation and “importance” is clear for both users and search engines.
• Quote:

  “Every one of those questions is a content opportunity.” –Marc [46:58]
  “Your website needs to be linking to itself. You have to tell [search engines] what's important on your page.” –John [51:11]

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7. Website Platforms: Does It Matter?

• WordPress (with Elementor) vs. Wix/Squarespace:
  • John prefers WordPress + Elementor Pro for flexibility, cost, and future-proofing.
  • Wix/Squarespace: easier out-of-the-box, but limited, potentially expensive, and easier to “break” design (especially on mobile).
  • The most crucial factor for most VOs: content, user flow, and audience-centric design—not the platform itself.
• Quote:

  “From a design perspective…the normal voice actor is not going to think about margins and padding… You can very quickly break your design on a thing like Wix.” –John [58:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “My anxiety makes me productive.” –John [01:17]
• “If I’m not seeing myself as someone who doesn’t know everything, then I’m going to stop learning.” –John [05:47]
• “[LinkedIn Premium] only works if you are like a power user of LinkedIn… so much of what I do is driving people to a website.” –John [07:06]
• “If you’re signing up for LinkedIn Premium to get more InMail messages, you’re doing your outbound marketing wrong.” –John [13:07]
• “They focus it so much on themselves that they forget about who am I actually trying to attract here.” –John [16:31]
• “We need to tell the robots, we need to tell Google, we need to tell the LLMs what specifically we're providing because otherwise [they] aren’t pulling audio data.” –John [25:11]
• “I want to make this experience… as frictionless, as easy, as straightforward as possible.” –John [33:16]
• “People need to name what they are. They assume that everyone knows what they are if they have demos there.” –John [36:22]
• “If someone reaches out to you, they’re asking questions… every one of those questions is a content opportunity.” –Marc [46:46]
• “Your website needs to be linking to itself… Otherwise it becomes harder for search engines to understand what's important.” –John [51:11]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:17] John explains “my anxiety makes me productive”; embracing vulnerability online.
• [04:15] Social media anxiety & imposter syndrome for VOs.
• [06:49] LinkedIn Premium for VOs: features, drawbacks, real value.
• [09:20] Direct call-to-action buttons and user experience on LinkedIn.
• [13:07] The right and wrong ways to market on LinkedIn (InMail vs. relationship).
• [16:20] Why most VO websites fail to convert—thinking like a marketer, not just a creative.
• [18:57] Outbound marketing’s role in shaping website structure and copy.
• [21:51] Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) & the shift in search behavior for voice buyers.
• [25:24] Black hat SEO vs. high-quality evergreen tactics.
• [32:09] Most common VO website mistakes: the hero section and copywriting.
• [36:06] The “do you even say you’re a voice actor?” problem.
• [37:43] Building case studies and featured work to connect with buyers.
• [44:05] Adding value for clients with blog posts/case studies and the SEO ripple effect.
• [46:46] Real client questions = your best website content (plus FAQ and internal linking).
• [55:02] WordPress vs. Wix/Squarespace for VO websites.
• [58:51] Practical advice: mapping website revamps to the buyer’s journey.

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Additional Resources Mentioned

• John Lano’s Websites:
  • FullTimeVoiceTalent.com (VO mentoring and website services)
  • Personal VO site (linked via LinkedIn)
• Connect with John:
  • LinkedIn (most active; open DMs)
• VO Website Checkup:
  • Detailed consultation/recorded analysis for actionable website improvements.
• LinkedIn Live:
  • John’s recent live website build with Brandon Miller (brandon’s site as an example of best practice)

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Final Takeaways

• Shift your website and marketing from self-promotion to buyer solutions.
• Treat your web copy, demos, and portfolio as tools to answer buyer pain points and speak to them directly.
• Experiment with niche pages, FAQs, and case studies to boost GEO/AI SEO discoverability.
• Don’t stress the tech—prioritize content and buyer experience over the CMS.
• Continually update your website with new work, insights, and relevant content—buyers and Google will both notice.

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For more actionable business and marketing tips for voice actors, subscribe to Everyday VOpreneur® and connect with John and Marc on LinkedIn.

Transcript

[A]

I will say, like the imposter syndrome

[B]

is very real from a marketing perspective. We need to be solution providers.

[A]

So much of what I do is driving people to a website.

[B]

I think that that is something that we absolutely need to be paying attention to. And I think a lot of voice

[A]

actors aren't, but your name, your picture, doesn't really mean anything to them.

[B]

Is SEO as much of a priority now or is it going to be more of a GEO priority?

[A]

They focus it so much on themselves that they forget about who am I actually trying to attract here.

[B]

So is it fair to that? This is a ground floor opportunity. In this week's episode of the podcast, John Lano and I are going to be talking about websites and what voice actors can do to make their websites better. But before we get to the design of your website, you've got to have a great host. And that's where upper level hosting comes in. They're reliable, affordable, and their customer service is second to none. Get your domain and hosting package now at upper level hosting dot com. John Lano, the Voiceover Genie I want to ask you a question before we even get going, based off of something that I read. I think it was on your LinkedIn profile that I read it. My anxiety makes me productive. Tell me about that statement.

[A]

Yeah. Oh man, that's a big, it's a big statement. And I decided to lead with it recently because I just feel like from a LinkedIn perspective, I just want to be honest about who I am and kind of bring someone into who I am from the beginning. But the statement comes from the fact that basically since I started voiceover, basically, which was right out of college, I have had, especially right in the beginning, after college, I had pretty crippling anxiety, okay, panic attacks and things that were constant. And it's something that I've dealt with my entire working adult life. And so the way I kind of take power away from it, one of my strategies is to just own it and make fun of it and make, you know, and just say, you know what that feeling of anxiety is, what, you know, what moves me ahead, what gets me, like, it has helped me be productive at times to kind of, you know, work through it if I'm feeling it. Especially working is something that really helps. So it's just, you know, I'm also someone who likes to make jokes and, you know, joke around. So it's, it's, it's been a part of who I am in voiceover. So it's always been there. So, yeah, that's where that's where it comes from.

[B]

I just, I think it's something that's probably relatable to a lot of people. I think I know so many. What, you know, I've got kids, one of my kids that has struggled with anxiety at different points, to different degrees, and trying to help her work through that, which when you are not someone who has that issue, it makes it even harder sometimes to really understand what's going on and to be able to help guide the person forward. But I love the fact that you've just decided, you know what, this is what it is. I'm going to embrace it and find a way to work with it and turn it into a superpower instead of turning it into an excuse or a reason why you don't move forward or whatever. So I have a lot of respect for that.

[A]

Yeah. And I will say that I have made a concerted effort over the past, like, year or so, especially as I've dived more into, like, we will talk more about websites, voiceover websites, but as I've kind of put myself out there, more in the public eye in the voiceover community, you know, the anxiety is there. And so it's like, you know what? I'm just gonna have to just push through it and understand that it's just, it is what it is. And, you know, if I'm going to make this thing happen, if I'm going to put myself out there, that's just going to be part of it. And I do want to say that, you know, with the nature of our business, we're so isolated that if you have anxiety, if you have depression, if you have any other, you know, mental thing weighing you down, like, it can be, it can be magnified. So, you know, I've learned that this community is very supportive. So, you know, leaning on that and being kind of a little bit open about that also is just very helpful.

[B]

I'm curious how this translates into social media. You bring up an interesting point. Just that I've said to my wife many times that I feel like on any given day, I am one misconstrued social media post away from having my business canceled. Because that's just the world that we live in, right? If you say the wrong thing or you don't even necessarily have to say the wrong thing, you just have to say something that somebody doesn't agree with or they think is wrong and it amplifies so quickly. And I've lived with that pressure. I've lived with sleepless nights over stuff like that. And as somebody who does not have anxiety, I feel that anxiety. So for you dealing with anxiety, but also saying, hey, I'm coming out on social media, I'm using it more. I'm trying to make more of a tool. Do you ever sit and think about that stuff? Does it ever play in the back of your mind, like, man, what if I say the wrong thing? Or what if I. What if somebody doesn't like something or, you know, is this gonna be the end of me?

[A]

100. I don't know if I have a fear of necessarily of, like, being, quote, unquote, canceled.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I, I do fear, I will say, like, the imposter syndrome is very real.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I mean, I felt that my entire career in as a voice actor and now especially as someone who's adding something with. Into my business, feeling like, well, what do I know? I don't know as much or I'm not as good as this person, or I'm not, you know, as qualified. So I do feel a lot of anxiety around that specifically, you know, do I feel anxiety about saying the wrong thing? Not necessarily. I mean, I'm. I try to focus a lot of my energy on. On kind of like my philosophies on things and about. I don't know, I'm not sure how. I don't necessarily think about that necessarily, but I think about how I come across in terms of, you know, do I know, I don't know everything. I'm still learning. But then I. Then that also is, to me, really a responsible reflection, I guess, because I see myself as, you know, if I'm not seeing myself as someone who doesn't know everything, then I'm going to stop learning. You know, I'm going to say, okay, I have everything figured out. I know it all.

[B]

That's when the real problem starts.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah. I know you've been doing LinkedIn a lot more. At least I'm seeing you much more frequently on LinkedIn. So you've obviously found some value there and are trying to make that work for you. I'm curious, you have the LinkedIn Premium membership.

[A]

I do, baby.

[B]

Is it worth it? What has your experience been with it? I've only ever done the trial run. You know, they give you like two months or something like that. And I did that for a while. I'm just very curious to hear, is it worth it for you? And where do you feel like the value is there and where. Maybe not so much.

[A]

Oh, man. It really depends on the way I talk about it. And I'VE talked about this before is premium only works if you are like consider yourself a power user of LinkedIn. Right. So if you're using it day in and day out, I think it's something worth considering. But to me the, the best thing, the best feature that they have with a premium account is the fact that you can in line have someone visit your website. So let's say you post something or you comment something, you're going to have a call to action button under your name within the feed and that immediately takes them to your website. That doesn't exist. When you're just with you don't have a premium account, someone has to go into your profile, they have to click your contact info. Maybe some they do have, they've kind of removed, they've started to remove the link to your website. I know that some people have been grandfathered in basically in terms of keeping the link of your website on your profile, But I think LinkedIn itself is, is going the way of a lot of other platforms where it's pay to play. And I think that to me that call to action button, because so much of what I do is driving people to a website. That's my whole goal. To me, that's the number one thing. The fact that you can see someone who looks at your profile is, is nice. I guess if you're very active and you're sending a connection request and then you see someone accepted the request and then they looked at your profile, that can be really good data and you can immediately take advantage of that if you see, okay, they looked at my profile an hour ago, they accepted my connection request. If it's like a voiceover buyer, then they're kind of a hot lead at that point.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Send a, send a message and get that, get that ball rolling. But again, that's only valuable if you're on there very actively. If you're only on there a few times a week, you start to lose some of the power of, of those, of those additional benefits. There's other benefits, but to me those are like the biggest benefit to me is that website link button.

[B]

I thought that the analytics were interesting, but then at the same time I was like, that's a rabbit hole. That scares me because I could literally dive into those and lose a couple hours and really for what? Like, I don't, I don't know that there's a whole lot of value there. One of the things that I thought was interesting about LinkedIn, I'd be very curious to hear your experience on this if you do Meta Verified, Meta verified tells you straight up that you're paying for additional reach. So that's additional reach on Facebook, additional reach on Instagram. If you get the check mark on X, they tell you right up. Part of the value proposition there is you're getting additional reach. LinkedIn is the one platform that does not say that. Nowhere does it say, if you go to a LinkedIn Premium account, that you will get additional reach. Do you think that you're getting any additional reach? Have you noticed any difference from when you were just on a free profile?

[A]

No, no. What I'll say about that is, I will say there is. There is. And I don't know if people, not everyone feels this, but I do feel like there is. If you're active in comments, let's say, for example, there is a authority, there is a certain level of something that makes your profile stand out in the comments. If you have a LinkedIn Premium account, I know it's small and it's a very subtle thing, but that to me, you know, causes, I think, people to maybe see your profile more readily. Um, it stands out. But I will say that I think, and I don't know if this, I, I don't know where I heard this or I'm not sure, but I do know that I think if you have a LinkedIn Premium account, it's possible that your comments might be more weighted, a little heavier under someone's profile, potentially. I don't know. I, I don't know exactly where I heard that. I'm not sure if that's true, but just something that I, that I've, I've, I think I've heard in passing, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[B]

It makes sense in some senses because there, I mean, there's got to be a validation for, you know, why we're charged and like LinkedIn, by far the most expensive of any of the social media sites. I mean, as far as to pay for the monthly, to pay for the monthly fee. So there's got to be a value proposition there. I just, I was curious your experience, because I get asked often about it. I didn't feel like when I was testing it, did I think there were some advantages? Sure did. I think there were advantages to make it worth 60 bucks a month Canadian for me to do it. I didn't feel like there was, but it's always interesting to hear somebody else's experience. But what you say about the call to action button actually makes a lot of sense because part of what we know about user behavior online is that the more hoops that they have to jump through, the more likely they are to not jump through those hoops. And so like you said, if they see your see your post or see your comment and then they've got to click through to your profile and then from your profile they've got to click through to your website. Whereas if they can just do it right there in the moment that. That's in the feed.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, in the feed, being able to see it in the feed, that's a huge deal. Think about that.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You think about that like you could just click and you're immediately there. They don't have.

[B]

You've removed all barriers. Right. And so there's no time for them to think about it or second guess or change their mind or, you know, decide do I really want to go or whatever. They just click in that spontaneous moment or that instinctive moment. So there's, I can definitely see where there's some, some value there.

[A]

And there's, there are other, you know, if you're, if your job or what you do is different, there are other calls to action that you can pick there. You could say, like schedule an appointment, I think is one of them. There's other options that you could choose. Mine is just visit my website because Elsa's voice actors, we want people to. That's the action I want people to take.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

So I'm, so that's like my focus of everything I do is trying to drive those singular actions to my website. Another thing that comes with LinkedIn Premium, and some people see this as a benefit, is that you get more InMail, you get more ability to send messages. Yes, to me, that is not at all worth it. If you're signing up for LinkedIn Premium to get more InMail messages, you're doing your outbound marketing wrong. Because to me that shouldn't be how you're getting in front of someone if you send them an InMail using those credits. To me, that's obtrusive because you're, you're almost stepping beyond the bounds of what's people feel is okay on LinkedIn. People want to feel a natural connection and natural relationship building. And so you have to start small. Start with comments, start with following their profile, then connection request, then you can start sending messages to me. If you're thinking you're just gonna ram through the door with a LinkedIn Premium with InMail, you know, that's, to me, that's not worth it. I don't use those at all.

[B]

There definitely is a different set of rules on LinkedIn as far as engagement and how people want to be marketed to. I guess on that platform. You're right. There are things that need to be done differently on there. Do you ever feel like the things that you're doing to market your voiceover business are no longer working and you're questioning whether or not direct marketing works at all? There are shifts that are happening in marketing in 2026 and some of the things that you have done in the past, they may not be working anymore. And there's a reason for it. Because Trends Change I'm going to be teaching a brand new class on Tuesday, March 3, 2026 at 7:00pm Eastern. 2026 marketing trends for the Veopreneur. And in this class, not only am I going to walk you through what is changing in marketing, but I'm going to give you specific, actionable, practical strategies for how to adapt to those changes and what that looks like in your voiceover marketing on a day to day basis. The session is going to happen live via Zoom, but if you can't attend live, register anyway, everybody who signs up is going to receive access to a replay. 2026 marketing trends for the Veopreneur again. It's happening Tuesday, March 3, 2026, 7:00pm Eastern. Get the details and sign up at Veopreneur.com click on the store button, go to Veopreneur.com and click on the Store button. Now back to our show. You've talked a couple times about, you know, wanting to drive traffic to the website and the importance of getting traffic to the website. And that's actually the big reason why I wanted to have you on the show today was to talk about websites. So let's shift gears into that direction a little bit. I think as voice actors we are creatives. That is not something that is in dispute. But from a marketing perspective, we need to be solution providers. And I think that most of our websites are really awesome at showcasing us as creatives, but they are less awesome at showcasing us as solution providers. Why do you think that is?

[A]

Oh man. You know, I think that as voice actors and as actors just I would say the umbrella goes out to even actors or just creatives like we are. I think people get focused on the art, they get focused on what we do and they stop. They start to think about, well, how can I talk about me? How can I say that I can do this, this, this and this and I can be this for this and you know, they focus so much of their website design. Specifically, if we're talking about websites, they focus it so much on themselves that they forget about who am I actually trying to attract here, who am I trying to speak to, where am I meeting them in their buying journey. I think that a lot of people just don't think in those terms. And that's to no fault of any voice actor. It's just the nature of why we got into this because we feel like we have something to share with the world that comes from us. It's very personal and it's easy to kind of forget that missing link between us and the voiceover buyer.

[B]

It's that next step of obviously your demos are so important to your website, but helping people understand why those demos are so important or what does this actually mean? Like, it's making that extra connection. And I think that's something that, I mean, I try to do that a lot in my email marketing. I'm always talking about problem solution and pain points and all of that sort of stuff, but probably not doing it as good as I should be on the website. And I think there's a perspective shift that needs to happen there. And I think one of those things, one of it is, part of it is just websites have been designed the same way for whatever, 20 years, 25 years. I mean, I think I hand coded HTML, hand coded my first website in like 1995 or 1996.

[A]

Good for you. Good for you, right? Yeah.

[B]

I was working for a radio station at the time and we're like, we should get a website. And I'm like, I'll figure that out. And literally taught myself HTML and built the radio station's first website. And I don't think there's been a lot that's changed in, in some of that stuff. Some of the design elements that we put on them ever since we started doing it in the mid-90s. But there is an opportunity to think about this from a different perspective. So do we need to think less about pure promotion then, and more about what are the specific needs that I can meet or what is the specific problem that I can solve for that potential client? Are they coming thinking, I really need somebody who can do this, and if we can say, hey, you probably are looking for somebody who can do this, I can do that, and we connect with them on a different way?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, man, that's a big question mark. I, I will say that the way I think about it and the way I think people should think about their voiceover website is number one. What is your outbound marketing strategy? And that's kind of where it starts. Because the vast majority of any website traffic that any of us get as voice actors, unless we're undergoing a big SEO campaign to rank in the search engines, the vast majority of it is going to be traffic that we drive to the website. And so the question is, who are you reaching out to? What's their role? What kind of buyer are they? Are they an educated, highly educated voiceover buyer? Are they a mom and pop shop? Are you mainly reaching out to local companies who maybe haven't used voiceover before? So that's what you need to think about in terms of a. Where you're sending people on your website, but also how you're designing your website. So I always ask that question when I'm working with someone. Okay, it's like, well, what are you doing in outbound marketing? Are you doing cold email? And who are you reaching out to? And then you can, you know, most people have a one page website, so, you know, you have to do what you have to do the most you can within that one page website. But how can we lead buyers on a journey and meet them where they are, wherever they are, and then hopefully speak to most different kinds of buyers that you're going to be sending to your website? Additionally, I do believe there's real value, especially now with AI and large language models to have specific, if you have a very, very specific niche thing that you do within voiceover, and I'm not talking about just the genre, I'm talking about your voice, your accent, your language, all of those things. To me, there's a real opportunity right now to create pages on your website that speak to that very specific niche and to literally to name it and speak to those buyers. Because then if someone's going into. Because you know, Mark, that in large language models, people are just having conversations with, with it and they're being extremely detailed in their asks. And so let's give ourselves an advantage there. If you have a very niche thing that you do, a niche accent, all of the things, I mean, we're all very unique in what we offer. So you know, creating, whether it's just a section on your homepage or a specific subpage, I think that's the most powerful move, is to create a separate page, a separate landing page for that. You know, that's. That I think is a real opportunity right now. I know I, I talked about a lot of different things there, but I think gets me fired up.

[B]

The the, you know, geo or, you know, whatever they're calling it right now, Generative Engine optimization, AI SEO. You know, there's so many different various and assorted terms for it. I think that that is something that we absolutely need to be paying attention to. And I think a lot of voice actors aren't because are a lot of voice actors that have very strong opinions of AI to begin with and understandably so. But if you think about the way that you interact with these LLMs, whether it's ChatGPT or Gemini, Claude, whatever, I can even see in the, in the time that I've been using them, how I've, how I'm using them is changing. And one of the things that did not happen in, in the early days was there was no such thing as citing of sources or, or anything like that. Right. If you asked Chat GPT a question, it would give you an answer, but it didn't tell you where that answer came from. Now it's giving you sources and it's giving you links. And so we need to be thinking about that from the voiceover perspective. If a buyer is saying, you know, I'm working on this commercial and I'm looking for this kind of voice, can we have our website be one of the sources that is cited when they're asking that question in ChatGPT? And so that's kind of what you're talking about, right? Is think about what are some of those questions, particularly in those niche areas, what are some of those questions that somebody might type into ChatGPT? How do I build a page that answers that specific question so that I can be that, that source that is cited? That's something that I have started thinking about a ton. I added a hundred some odd pages to my website last year and continue to add now. And that's why I'm like, I want to figure out how do I get myself coming up in search results? Because, well, I don't know, what do you think about this? Is SEO as much of a priority now or is it going to be more of a GEO priority?

[A]

From my understanding, what we've learned so far within AI, SEO, geo, whatever you want to call it, is that so much of that, so much of what gets ranked within those search results relies on what is already ranking within SEO. So I think if people are worried and they're thinking, oh, I need to be thinking about AI and I need to be thinking about SEO and like, I feel like I just can't do it all. To me, the foundation thing that you should be thinking about, if you care about it, if you want to focus on it, is SEO. And then you can, you know, maybe try to think more so about AI geo, whatever you want to call it. But so much of what is showing up in search results is based on the SEO of those search results within Google. So right, right now what's happening in AI SEO is what happened early on in search engines in like the search engine world where a lot of kind of, they're called black hat tactics. So it's basically kind of shady tactics to rank for things. Those things are actually working relatively well right now in AI trying to manipulate AI search results. But the AI search results are, and including Google and Google Gemini, like they're, they're quite quickly deciding, you know what, that's low quality, that's not going to rank. We, you can't, you can't manipulate the system. And so they're, they're slowly cracking down on that. And once again, what's, what's reminded again is just that high quality content and doing kind of strong SEO work is what still works.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And so, but in terms of reaching people within an doing AI SEO or GEO on your own website. Yes, I mean, I agree. I mean I, I brought it up, but I really do think that if you have a very specific niche or a very specific combination of skills or something that you've done, even, even if you've done one project that is very specific, that's different than what everything else you've done, have a page for that, write a blog post at the very least about it and name what it is. I think a lot of voice actors don't have. They're not being obvious in what they're naming on their website. They're not writing specifically what they do. They think my demos are going to carry who I am, what I sound like, et cetera. No, we need to tell the robots, we need to tell Google, we need to tell the LLMs what specifically we're providing because otherwise LLMs and search engines aren't pulling audio data and saying what is this read style.

[B]

So it's the difference between talking about the commercial that you did for a casino and saying I do commercial work for large casino groups and just explaining it down a little bit further so that if there was another casino group that was out there, it's not just about this TV commercial that you did. It's about that very specific niche market of, and you know, name the market. You know, it could be an automotive dealer, it could be bakeries, it could be whatever, name the market, niche it down a little bit further. That's the sort of stuff that you're talking about. Yeah, I think there's always an opportunity for SEO. Obviously you play by the rules, there's always an opportunity to get yourself ranked. I think there's probably also something to be said for if you look at some of the consistently high ranking voice actor websites in particular, a lot of these people have been playing the game for a very long time. And so it's not just about having the right keywords or things of that nature. It's just about the authority of having the right keywords and the right kind of content for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, whatever. And that credibility is part of what lends themselves to it. So is it fair to say that this is a ground floor opportunity for the handful of voice actors who are actually going to jump in on this AI SEO thing instead of just saying screw the robots and running in the opposite direction of it?

[A]

Yes and no. Here's what I'll say. I want to say this before we talk too much more about SEO is that I think that while it is important and I think that it's important and you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't have a foundational structure of SEO on your website. If you're not structuring it in a way where you're being very clear about who you serve, what you do, what your voiceover genres are, et cetera. If you're not being clear there, then you're doing yourself a disservice because then Google has no idea who you are. But I will say that the majority of your energy in terms of what you're doing should be about more so about your on page copy and your on page design in terms of speaking to the buyer, where they are in the journey. Because again, so much of what we're going to be, how we get traffic to our website is through, through outbound marketing. So I don't want people to get too caught up in SEO. While it is important and I think there is an opportunity. Here's what I'll say about the established websites if you're wanting to. How do I want to think about this? Let's say you search for something very specific and you it's something maybe you want to get ranked for. You don't know the search volume yet. You don't know anything yet, but you want to get ranked for it. And so you pull up an incognito window on Google So you, because you don't want any of your past history to muddy those waters.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

You pull up an incognito window, you search for that and you see what comes up as the top ranking thing. I will say this is always a good practice is that when you see whatever's ranking, if it's an individual website, ignore the pay to plays that rank for things. But if it's an individual website that ranks for something, go to that website, see what they have designed there, see what is on that page. Can you improve upon that? Can you make your own version of that to be a better resource for searchers who are searching for that thing? I think that is always going to be in play and that's been true in SEO for a long time in terms of AI and geo. Yes. I mean, I think being very niche writing, very, very specific, targeted genre pages can be a really good thing. Now here's the thing. The search volume for those is going to be incredibly low. However, if someone searches for 80% of what you, of what you offer, there's a real chance that you could be brought up as the answer to that thing because you have been very specific about what you offer. And so if you're thinking about the buyer's journey, someone's going to be at the very bottom of the funnel, right? They're going to be at the very, they're going to be ready for the decision, decision point and ready to hire someone. And so if you can meet them where they are there, boom, you know, the likelihood that they're going to hire you or at least consider you strongly is, is way up.

[B]

I think the other side of this is just recognizing too that I don't need to SEO my site to generate an extra thousand clicks a month of just random people. If I can get 10 targeted clicks from a very specific person, because they're looking for a very specific thing that I have to offer. Right. That's what's going to ultimately convert. But I would still come back to what you talked about earlier, which I personally think is the most important factor, which is what outbound efforts are you participating in? Right. I am going to be always the primary source of traffic to my website and I'm going to do that through email marketing or social media campaigns or whatever. Like, I am constantly proactively driving traffic to my website. And I think that still, I mean, SEO is great and I love the idea of it, but I also don't, I don't know realistically that, that there's a voice actor that's going to build a website with SEO that's just going to sit back and build a nice little six figure business for themselves by just waiting for work to walk through the door. I'm not going to say it can't happen. Uh, let's just say there's probably a lower probability of it. So let's get back to the actual website design itself. What are we getting wrong? What do you think we're getting wrong?

[A]

Oh man, so much wrong. Mark. All the things, everything is, everything is really bad. No, you know, there are some things. I think one of the biggest things in my opinion is the website copies what you have written on your site. I think that a lot of people, you know, let me, let me rewind that a little bit. It's a combination of things. But the first thing I always think about on someone's website, the first thing that they, they should focus on is the hero section. Is that section above the fold before they ever, a visitor ever scrolls down on your page. And that's on mobile and on desktop. How are we meeting the buyers where they are? It's great to have a picture of yourself. You could have your name there, but your name, your picture doesn't really mean anything to them. I mean it does put, you know, it gives a little personality to your voice, it gives a little background to who you are to have your, to have your face there. But a lot of voice actors just have their name in their face and their demos. There's, and to me, you're missing an opportunity there to speak directly to your buyer. And so I am a huge proponent of leading visually when people visit a website. So what do we want them to look at first? To me, yes, we want them to listen to our demos. Of course, if they are coming from a targeted action in outbound marketing, we want our demos to be immediately available. Of course, that's always true. However, if I'm doing, if I'm having, if someone's landing on my website, let's say they look at my website months after I first reach out to them for voiceover, like a potential, you know, marketing, or if they land on my website through social media or if they see it through a different directory, I want to start to, I want to speak to them and I want to speak to, you know, their pain points. I want to speak to what I bring to the table, how, what I do makes their job easier, better, makes the quality better, etc. And also help them understand where my voice sits in the marketplace. I think That a lot of times we, again, we like to lead with our work. We like to lead with, you know, listen to my demos and you'll get a sense of my voice. Sure. No, no, no. Let's tell them what the voice, what, where the voice, what the voice sounds like. Let's tell them where it sits best. Because my whole thing is I want to make this experience when someone comes to my website, as frictionless, as easy, as straightforward as possible. And I want to immediately have them understand who I am, who I serve, where my voice best sits. Then when they listen to my demos, the picture comes alive. You know, it becomes a 3D image of like, okay, I understand who this is. Before I ever have to scroll down the rest of their page, then you can, you know, as you scroll down the page, you can kind of take them deeper and deeper into who you are, into your business, into who you serve, you know, showcasing specific work, et cetera. But I always say that I think there's so much to be done in the hero section for a lot of voice actors out there. I've been, as I've gotten more and more into designing websites for fellow voice actors and working with other voice actors. Voice actors. I've done a lot of kind of creeping on other websites and, and I just, that's something that really stands out to me every time I'm like, oh, there's so much more you could do here in this section of your website. You don't have to redesign your whole website, but let's, let's, let's firm up this, this top section of your site.

[B]

At least it's, it's name picture demos.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's it. And I'm actually surprised at how many times I have gone to a voice actors website. And somewhere in that above the fold section, it doesn't even actually express that they are a voice actor.

[A]

Oh, that. Oh, Mark.

[B]

And I'm like, oh, good, you've got a microphone in your logo. So are you a singer? Are you a vintage microphone collector? Are you a podcaster? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't even say the word voice actor on it. And so you're right, there's.

[A]

That is low hanging fruit. That is low hanging fruit right there. I'm glad you brought that up. That is very true. People need to name what they are. They assume that everyone knows what they are if they have demos there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

There is a really good opportunity though, to talk specifically about what you do, especially if you do something a little bit more Niche or you fit into a specific pocket. Like, I was working with one voice actor who literally branded themselves as the millennial voice. And, and I actually think that that works because now, I mean, as soon as I'm on your website, I already know. And so now you don't need to tell me you're the millennial voice that does this type of read or that type of read or the other type of. I'm just going to assume, okay, this is the millennial voice. And then I listen to the reason. Like the millennial voice that does this, the millennial voice that does that, or what? Like, so when you, when you fill a certain niche or fit a certain niche or whatever especially, I think there's a really good opportunity there. Something that you do that I love and I've. I don't know that I'd ever seen it done on a website before. Not on a voice actor website before is case studies. I have used case studies in other forms of marketing efforts to potential buyers. Never really used one on a website before. Love the idea of it. Walk us through this case study concept.

[A]

Yeah. So to me, and you can call it different things. You could call it featured work. You could call it, yeah, a featured project. The way I look at it is. And this is this. Anyone can do this. Let's say you've booked one voiceover job. To me, it is in your best interest and in the best interest of buyers to highlight that in an in depth way to give it the weight that it deserves. And then when you're doing a case study, so the way I picture it, and if you. I recently designed and I did a LinkedIn Live for Brandon Miller, Brandon Miller's voiceover website. And if you go to his website,

[B]

I've been there and looked at it and was like, dang, nice work.

[A]

Thank you, I appreciate that. And it was a very collaborative effort. It was awesome working with Brandon and he's a great voice actor. But if you go to his website, you scroll down, I think maybe in the second section of his website you'll see that there are two specific highlighted projects that we, that we kind of turned into mini case studies. And the idea behind it is to get the buyer, whoever's coming to your website, not only to see the work that you do, obviously we want to showcase this, but also in how we describe it, we want them to see themselves in it. So let's say, you know, say you're one of your clients is a casino. Going back to your casino example, it's a casino and what was the, what was the read style that you had in there? So you can describe your read style. If some, if another casino is coming to your website and they're like, oh, I need a read kind of like this, like, this is perfect, they see themselves in it. You can talk about the workflow behind it. Say this was done over a directed session. You know, you're not saying I do directed sessions over zoom and source connect, I'm available for that. You're kind of subtly telling them that okay, they did a source connect session or they did a zoom session and that's how it was done. And then you can even add some more authority behind it. If, let's say it was like a multi spot campaign, you could describe it a little bit more in those, in those words. But to me the idea is twofold. On a case study, it's, well, maybe threefold. But it's to have the buyer see themselves in the project that you're putting together. Because they may see something in what you did or in how you described it or in your read style that they can reference themselves. It becomes a lot easier for them to imagine your voice in their project. So that's one reason, good reason why, another reason why is to just give you more authority to show you as someone who understands the process, who is very, you know, specific about the decisions you make as a voice actor. To me it just shows authority. It also gives your work the credibility that it deserves. Even if, again, even if you've only booked like a couple jobs in your, early in your career, you can showcase those projects. I will say as a side note, another mistake I see on websites is people who just list like they just have a. And if you have a ton of work, if you are just an extremely non stop working voice actor and you just want to basically show that, like, look at this wall of work I've done. That's great. But if you're most working voice actors, if you're, you know, you're kind of a middle class voice actor like most of us. To me, you need to structure your portfolio in a way that leads the buyer because no one's. All it is is just a wall of videos. There's no, I don't know what I'm looking at here. What am I supposed to click play on here? What is this genre? What is this read style? It's great that you've done work, but how can we actually leverage what you've done in the past to then speak to future buyers and then the Third, smaller benefit is that when you can write, read styles, when you can write, you know what it is you did, that's just another excuse for you to have more content on your page, more chances to explain to search engines what you're doing.

[B]

It's an opportunity to refresh the page too. Right?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because if you build your website, you just let it sit there and you don't update it for years, versus if you're constantly putting this stuff up there. As you were talking about, one of the things that stood out to me was the irony of the fact that so many of the production companies that we are marketing to present their work in exactly the way that you are talking about right now. But it's like we never picked up on it.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

We just post the video and, you know, maybe the name of the brand or whatever. But when they're posting it on their website, they're talking about what the client wanted or whatever. There's a mindset shift that has to happen here because so often it's, hey, look at me in this thing that I did. Right. And even, oh, I'm so happy to have done this commercial for such and such. And that's the way. Yeah, right. I'm so humbled and proud. And that's the way that we share it when we post it on social media. And I know, I've talked about that, that, you know, share it, make it matter to the buyer. And so I will write a social media post where I do exactly what you just talked about. You know, I said, this is what the client was looking for and this is how we were able to make it happen or whatever. But again, not the way that I present it on my website. There's a mindset shift that has to happen there that goes from a portfolio displaying your work to creating a portfolio of work clients are interested in, trying to figure out what the language is there. But there is a perspective shift that has to happen. This isn't about me and my voice. This is about the buyer looking and identifying with. Oh, yeah, that's what I was looking for. That's what I need. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think even in how we showcase our demos now, I think we've done that to a degree. You don't just post your commercial demo now. You post like, I've got my voice amplifier and I've got all the different spots listed and each one of the spots is labeled. This is conversational. This is authoritative. This is blah, blah, blah. We're trying to help the buyer get to what they want faster. We do it with our demos, let's do it with our portfolio as well. Yeah, makes, I mean, it makes so much sense. When you talk about it, I'm like, what have we been doing for the last 10 years?

[A]

No 100%. And I like, here's the thing, my website's not perfect. Like I am. I'm literally going to be starting a full on, I wouldn't say a full rebuild, but I'm going to be doing like a, a refacing of my website. And I'm actually going to be. If people want to watch that, I'm actually going to like, if you want to watch over my shoulder doing that, I'm going to. I think I'm probably doing it live on LinkedIn. But to me, there's so many benefits to doing like a case study style thing. One of the things I think that people need to consider is the fact that how can we add value to our clients? We're always thinking about that, right? How can we add value to whatever they're doing? Obviously what we're doing as voice actors, we want to deliver great sound, we want to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All those things that are expected of us. What could we do that goes above and beyond that, that shows that we really care about them, that we care about the relationship that we want to showcase the work that they did? I mean, let's be honest with ourselves. The amount of work we do compared to the rest of the project is absolutely microscopic. I mean, it is like nothing. I mean, I shouldn't say nothing. I don't want to say what we do is nothing. But I just want to say that the comparison and the amount of work that we're doing is very little. Unless it's like a radio ad. Potentially there's, you know, there's some more there. But the reason I. So what I'm saying is that think about this. Like, could you, let's say you do a project for someone you've got a good relationship with, or maybe you're starting a good relationship with. You can write up a really nice blog post. It doesn't have to be a specific page on your website. It could just be a blog post that basically breaks down the project. And you could either say to the client that you're going to be doing it. If you feel a little bit weird about it, you could ask them if it's okay if you do it nine times out of 10 or more than that, they're going to say, that's totally great. I'd love that. Bring them into that process. Just tell them that you're doing it, write it, do a, do a great job with it, then share it on social media. Tag them on social media. They may share it with their network and they're connected to other video producers, other, you know, learning development people, you know, whoever it is that you're actually working with. That's just another way for you to kind of naturally get yourself in front of more people. And also just to add value to the relationship. And if you link back to their website, you say, hey, by the way, from an SEO perspective, I also gave you guys a link. And, you know, it all matters.

[B]

So much of this comes back to what you were talking about earlier in the conversation, which is just remembering who your audience is. And, you know, one of the things that I have said to voice actors for years is every time a new client reaches out to you, they're asking questions. And if you're paying attention to that over time, you're going to end up with a dozen or 15 questions that just keep getting asked over and over and over again. Every one of those questions is a content opportunity. Those are the things that clients want to know about. Those are the things, the questions that they have, the pain points that they have, the problem that they're looking to get solved or whatever. And if we took that and then ran our website through that lens, can we answer those questions on our website so that they don't even have to ask them? So that when they're coming into our inbox now, it's like they already know and they just want to book the job or give us the audition or whatever. It's just really about remembering who the website is for. And it is about you, the voice actor, but it is for them, the voice buyer. And so when you're filtering everything through that lens, your copy, how you present your copy, all of that sort of stuff, that's really. When you strip it all out, the rest of it away. That's what we're talking about here. The case study just happens to be a really smart way to showcase that.

[A]

Yeah. What I'll say, and I want to add on to your point, that is a really good insight to take that language and those questions that you're hearing from your clients over the years, from prospective clients, think about again. Yeah, think about what they're saying. Not only could you create content on your site, like a page or a blog post or a section, but to me, that is like prime material for an FAQ section to Me. And this is literally something that I am now adding to my website. I have literally neglected this. I've answered questions on my website, but I don't have a dedicated FAQ section. And that is a missed opportunity by me. I feel, I feel, I feel every website I'm designing now, it's funny, I've been designing quite a few websites now since I've started doing this, and I feel like every website I've designed is superior to my own website. And now that I've sent so often away, right.

[B]

When you, when you are the teacher, you know.

[A]

Exactly. So now I'm like, oh, God, like, when am I going to squeeze in time to actually make, like, make my website up to par with what I'm putting out there for other people's websites? But going back to the point, make that an faq. Think about the common questions that people answer. You don't have to have a soliloquy of an answer. You don't even necessarily have to give an incredibly detailed, or let's say one of the main questions is, how much does this cost? How much does a voiceover cost? You don't have to say, these are my exact rates x number of dollars. You could link, you could link to something if you're okay with having that be a publicly available thing like a rate sheet or something. Or you could link to a guide on your website about voiceover rates, but you could just link to the GVAA rate guide. You know, you could talk about how you're, you're, you're, you're basing your rates off of this. But it all depends on usage and all the things that we know as voice actors.

[B]

That's the one there, right? Don't. If you can't give them the number, tell them what you need to get to the number.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

I will provide you an accurate quote if you can provide me with this, this, this and this. Right. And so now when they reach out, they know what they need to, they need to offer. This FAQ section also feels like exactly the sort of stuff that would rank in an llc because so often when we're going into the AI LLM models, we're asking it questions. And so if somebody's asking a very specific question about voiceover, how do voice actors come up with the rates? Right. And you've got an FAQ that is titled How Voice Actors Come up with their rates. Now ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever is quoting you and citing your source.

[A]

Exactly. You could have an FAQ having that question and then you could link to a larger, more detailed guide on that that you've written up. You know, your website needs to be linking to itself. I think that that's one thing that if you have multiple pages on your voiceover website, you must have, you must make a concerted effort to have them be linking in between each other. Otherwise you've to. If you think about it, it's almost like you're serving the search engines. You want to make their job as easy as possible and you have to tell them what's important on your page. So if you're not linking to like on your, from your homepage, if you're not linking to like your portfolio page and you're not linking to your. Maybe you have a dedicated demos page or something, it's going to. It becomes harder for search engines to understand what's important on your website. So we want to give them those indicators. So that's.

[B]

So if you're creating some case study pages for, you know, one of the commercials, you know, commercial that you've done, we'll go back to the casino thing, right? And you've created a case study page for that. You'd also, if you've got similar case studies, similar commercials or something like that, you know, you can also check out and link back to some of the other. So you're interlinking your portfolio as well, giving people the opportunity to navigate around. There's so much to think about.

[A]

There is. There really is.

[B]

There's so much to think about. But I really think, I mean, I, I know I look at my website and I'm in the same boat, right? I teach some, I teach so much of this stuff and I'm in my same, same boat where I look at my website and think, oh my gosh, I need to do that and I need to do that and I need to do that and there's not enough hours in the day to do all of the things, but this is something that you're doing now. Brandon's website was great. I did check out the website that you had done with Brandon. Scrolled through it, thought it looked, I mean, look of it was great. The content on it was great. The case study thing, I. Brilliant. Doesn't surprise me that Brandon was collaborating with you on it either because I know Brandon's an incredibly smart guy, great marketer in his own right as well. So putting the two of you together, no wonder you got a great website. But if somebody is interested in having a conversation with you or digging into this deeper do you have some resources? Do you got videos? Do you do consultations? What does that look like?

[A]

Sure, yeah. I think the first place to interact with me is LinkedIn. I'm very active on there. So if you want to connect with me and ask me a question or whatever, my DMs are always open if you have a quick question or something. But more so, yes, I offer, I do website design, but I also do offer just consultations about your website. I offer something called like a VO website checkup which is basically I take a dive into your website, I record an analysis of it basically through the buyer's lens and give you advice on what you can change, how you can manipulate what you already have on your site, your assets that you already have to make improvements. People have been enjoying that because it's not as big of a lift as like a full on redesign because a lot of people aren't prepared for that. But if you want to just improve what you already have, that's a good thing. You can find that on my website. So I have two websites. I have my own personal voiceover website and then I have my kind of, I would say, mentoring website. Voiceover mentoring website. I started several years, several years ago just because it was kind of during COVID et cetera. Anyway, that's FullTimeVoiceTalent.com so if you go to FullTimeVoiceTalent.com and then you click on the website services on the menu bar, you'll see different offerings there as well as just some more information about what I do and how I could possibly help you. And I'm always open to just having a chat, a quick chat, just to see concerns you have or something you might be worried about. And that's also, I have that available as just a quick calendly meeting.

[B]

One other question, because I know, I'm sure there's already people who are thinking, does it make a difference what you build your website with? Is it like, look, this has got to be a WordPress thing or it's got to be a like. Does it matter if it's WordPress or Wix or Squarespace or, you know, whatever name the website builder? Does it make a difference?

[A]

It depends who you are. Depends how much control you want me as someone who's designing these. My preferred setup right now is built on WordPress and then I use a page builder called Elementor and I use a pro version of that. And the reason I like that, there's a lot of different reasons I like that. For one, they're investing in their product all the time and they're constantly improving it. And to me, I want to be a part of something kind of like with you and Nimble, I want to be a part of a company that's constantly innovating and improving. And so there's a ton of tutorials out there. There's a ton of things that we can lean on as voice actors. If you build it through through something like that, WordPress can be daunting for people. So I do feel that pain. It's not as complicated as it seems, at least out of the box. When you open it up, when you get in the back end of a WordPress site, it can feel like, what the heck am I looking at? Like, this is like a foreign language. Yeah, that's my preference. Does it matter? No. I mean, depending on what you want to do, it might matter. There's limitations. I've recently started to build some websites on WIX and Squarespace and I don't like those as much. There's limitations there, especially on the. If you're on the lowest tier there. And my problem with a lot of those is that you're basically paying for a glorified website hosting. You're paying their fee to basically get you getting access to their website builder, but more so you're paying for their hosting. And to me, their pricing is too expensive for what you're getting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I can get equivalent or better pricing if I'm using WordPress and my own host through like upper level or some other host and then using Elementor, and the elementor is like $84 a year. And so if you're using that plus a Host and on WordPress and WordPress is free, you're getting a lot more control over your website long term and in the short term. And you're not dealing with like, sometimes the price, the introductory pricing that they give you on WIX or Squarespace can immediately be skyrocketed.

[B]

Year two, all of a sudden it's like, whoa, what happened? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So I mean, like from a, from a endpoint goal, like, you can use whatever you want. I mean, it doesn't. There's no like, difference in. I mean, there's some flex, there's a lot of flexibility. If you're building on WordPress, the difference

[B]

is really in the backend, but your ability to add the type of content that we're talking about or, you know, shift the layout of your website to get things in the right order on the page or whatever. Yeah, that is not as much. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't make as big of a difference as really what it comes down to.

[A]

Yeah. And there's, you know, from a design perspective, like, you know, I'm thinking about margins and padding and all of these things that the normal voice actor is not going to think about.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I will say that the ability to control how things are. I mean, you can move things around. Let's say you're talking about wix. You can move things around in your page. You can very quickly break your design on a thing like wix. That's one of my big issues with it, is like, you can break it quite quickly, especially on mobile. So, you know, just be careful if you're using a builder like that.

[B]

Well, John, this has been great. I love thinking about this from a different perspective and it's really easy to sit and say, you know, oh, you got to make your website from the buyer's perspective or, you know, think about what the end user would be looking for and, you know, all these things that we say. But it's another thing to really map that out of what that actually looks like and what that means on a practical level. And I think you've done a really great job of helping us understand what that actually means on a practical level. So thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom. And definitely people need to get connected with you on LinkedIn. You're sharing a lot of really good stuff. There are a lot of really helpful content there as well.

[A]

Yeah, I appreciate that, Mark. I really appreciate you having me on today. And if anyone has questions. Yeah, don't be afraid to reach out. I love talking about this stuff. So thanks again, Mark, and thanks to this community for being so supportive.

[B]

So, yeah, we'll make sure that all the website address and everything is in the show notes as well. So if you're looking for that, you'll be able to find it and people will be able to get connected. Thank you so much, John.

[A]

Sounds good. Thank you.

[B]

I really want to see the everyday veopreneur podcast continue to grow and get even better and of course, provide even more actionable practical advice for you while you are listening. One of the things that you can do to help make that happen, make sure you subscribe to the podcast wherever you are listening, including Apple podcasts and Spotify. And can you do me one more quick favor? If you enjoyed this week's episode, please share it, post it on your Facebook feed, your LinkedIn feed, share it in your Instagram stories. Let people know you're listening. Thanks so much for enjoying the everyday Veopreneur podcast.