Fear, Failure, and the Truth About Building a Voice Over Career, with Paul Cartwright

Summary

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Fear, Failure, and the Truth About Building a Voice Over Career

Podcast: Everyday VOpreneur®
Host: Marc Scott
Guest: Paul Cartwright
Date: April 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the role of fear and failure in building a voice over career, dismantling common myths about success, and highlighting the realities of entrepreneurship within the voiceover industry. Host Marc Scott and accomplished voice actor Paul Cartwright discuss personal stories, actionable strategies for overcoming anxiety, and the value of persistence, honesty, and continued learning in VOpreneurship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Reality of Fear in a Voice Over Career

• Prevalence of Fear
  • Marc estimates about 80% of voice actors grapple with fear, often tied to fear of failure ("What if it doesn't work?") or even fear of success ("What if it works and I can't handle it?").
    • “80% of voice actors, maybe even more, are struggling with fear.” — Marc Scott, [01:51]
• Fear Rooted in Uncertainty
  • Paul shares: The core of both fears is the unknown—a lack of control over outcomes.
    • “It all comes down to I don’t know what’s going to happen. And so because I don't know…my first response is that makes me scared.” — Paul Cartwright, [04:11]

Reframing Failure as Learning

• Mindset Shift
  • Paul highlights the importance of reframing failure: Not as negative, but simply feedback and part of the process.
    • “Failure isn't a negative thing. It's just a learning experience.” — Paul Cartwright, [09:13]
• Actionable Example
  • After sending a poor demo to 35 agents and getting a blunt rejection, Paul used feedback to seek top-tier demo production and improve.
    • “So these mistakes and failures... they're just learning experiences.” — Paul, [09:56]
• Worst-case Scenarios are Overcomable
  • Both Marc and Paul share worst-case moments that, when handled with honesty and composure, simply led to the next step, not disaster.
    • “Nobody’s going to die. No countries are going to fall. No economies are going to collapse.” — Marc, [06:38]

Persistence, Honesty, and Transparency

• Agent Story
  • Paul pursued a top agency for three years, receiving polite rejections and finally being signed after relentless but professional follow-up.
    • “We can't ignore you anymore. We have to bring you in just so you'll leave us alone.” — Agent to Paul, [14:26]
  • Later, that same agency dropped him, but the result was a new manager who tripled his income.
    • “Now I’m at the top of my manager’s list as opposed to the bottom of my dream agent’s list.” — Paul, [16:44]
• The Power of Not Quitting
  • Paul’s overarching philosophy:
    • “You can’t fail if you don’t quit.” — Paul, [57:37]

The Importance of Support and Sacrifice

• Support System
  • Paul’s wife’s unwavering faith was pivotal. He notes the difficulty and necessity of having the right partner in your corner.
    • “I tell my wife all the time, I don’t get to complain about anything in life.” — Paul, [59:53]
• Sacrifice & Hustle
  • Both discuss the real grind: Paul worked full-time and studied/recorded VO into the night for years.
    • “I was up 11pm till 2, 3, 4 in the morning, two to three times a week…for two years.” — Paul, [29:25]
  • Marc described sending marketing emails 18 hours a day for the first four years.
    • “People miss out...you can’t skip that part.” — Marc, [32:42]

Growth, Risk, and Reinvention

• Embracing Discomfort
  • "Growth, by its very nature, should make you uncomfortable." — Marc, [21:04]
• Career Pivots
  • Paul shifted from video game/animation work into commercial VO, after realizing the need for financial stability and after targeted coaching.
    • “All it was, was I was trying too hard…Clients…just want to hear you talking." — Paul, [40:59]
• Continual Learning
  • Paul and Marc stress that coaching and self-improvement never end, no matter your achievement level.
    • “The coaching never stops. Anyone who thinks this is a make it and you're done…you're insane.” — Paul, [51:02]

Building the Right Network

• Importance of Mentorship & Coaching
  • Relationships with industry leaders (JMC, Tina Morasco) and constant coaching are highlighted.
    • “Why would I not want to sit down and do a session and find out what she [Tina]. has to say?” — Marc, [49:41]
• Community Spirit & Ego Check
  • The voiceover community is less about gatekeeping and more about supporting those willing to work.
    • “People are genuinely good people.” — Paul, [43:59]

Real World Logistics and Success

• Multiple Income Streams & Location Independence
  • Paul’s journey includes moving from LA to Utah, proving you can build a thriving VO career outside of traditional markets.
    • “I live not in LA or New York...and 100% agent/manager income stream. Not in LA.” — Marc, [60:15]
• Sacrifices vs. Overnight Success
  • Real, sustainable success takes years of sustained effort and investment—debunking the myth of overnight success.
    • “Overnight success, a decade in the making.” — Marc, [31:15]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |--------------|------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:51] | Marc Scott | “80% of voice actors, maybe even more, are struggling with fear.” | | [09:13] | Paul Cartwright | “Failure isn't a negative thing. It's just a learning experience.” | | [14:26] | Agent (to Paul) | “We can't ignore you anymore. We have to bring you in just so you'll leave us alone.” | | [16:44] | Paul Cartwright | “Now I’m at the top of my manager’s list as opposed to the bottom of my dream agent’s list.” | | [21:04] | Marc Scott | “Growth, by its very nature, should make you uncomfortable.” | | [29:25] | Paul Cartwright | “I was up 11pm till 2, 3, 4 in the morning, two to three times a week…for two years.” | | [32:42] | Marc Scott | “People miss out...you can’t skip that part.” | | [40:59] | Paul Cartwright | "All it was, was I was trying too hard…Clients…just want to hear you talking." | | [51:02] | Paul Cartwright | “The coaching never stops. Anyone who thinks this is a make it and you're done…you're insane.” | | [57:37] | Paul Cartwright | “You can’t fail if you don’t quit.” | | [59:53] | Paul Cartwright | “I tell my wife all the time, I don’t get to complain about anything in life.” |

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Timestamps for Major Themes & Topics

• [03:00] — The universality of fear in VO, roots of anxiety, and reframing the problem
• [07:53] — Lessons from early failure (Paul’s first demo) & shifting perspective
• [10:09] — Handling worst-case scenarios and honesty with clients
• [14:26] — Persistence with agencies and redefining success
• [16:25] — Losing a “dream” agent and coming out ahead with the right manager
• [21:20] — Paul's acting training in London and risky career pivots
• [29:25] — Real work required: balancing full-time job, family, and voice over
• [40:46] — Pivoting genres in VO, learning from top commercial coaches
• [43:51] — The power of mentorship and demystifying “gatekeepers”
• [51:02] — Never-ending coaching and professional development
• [54:52] — Focusing 100% on agent/manager work, evaluating new opportunities
• [57:37] — Final advice for those struggling: Don’t quit, keep going
• [60:15] — Succeeding from “anywhere” (outside LA/NY)

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Takeaways for VOpreneurs

• Embrace fear as a sign that you’re pushing into new territory.
• Failure is feedback; use it as a springboard for growth.
• Persistence and professional follow-up are essential.
• Be honest: with yourself, your clients, and your colleagues.
• Sacrifice is part of the process—there’s no shortcut to sustainable success.
• Invest in support systems and keep learning; mentorship doesn’t end after “making it.”
• Broaden your network and select coaches wisely.
• Location and “overnight” success myths are overrated—it all starts with hard work.
• In the face of adversity: “You can’t fail if you don’t quit.”

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Resources, Further Information, and Next Steps

• Paul Cartwright’s Coaching & Site: [Link will be in show notes]
• Podcast resources and community: vopreneur.com
• Notable mentorship & demo coaches: J. Michael Collins, Tina Morasco

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This episode is a must-listen for both aspiring and established VO entrepreneurs looking for practical wisdom, encouragement, and an unvarnished look at what it takes to build a fulfilling voice over career.

Transcript

[A]

I want to talk about fear.

[B]

Everyone else is so confident and everyone else has it figured out.

[A]

Growth, by its very nature, should make you uncomfortable.

[B]

We can't ignore you anymore.

[A]

You're causing yourself massive anxiety over an outcome that you don't even know will exist.

[B]

Failure isn't a negative thing. It's just a learning experience.

[A]

What is there in that scenario that you can control?

[B]

How can we fix this? And you know what the response was?

[A]

Nobody's going to die. No countries are going to fall. No economies are going to collapse. If the everyday veopreneur podcast has been helpful to you on your voiceover journey, then you might be excited to find out that there is an entire world of resources beyond this podcast. @veopreneur.com resources across the spectrum. Free resources like the podcast, my free advice Friday live streams on YouTube as well as premium resources including guides, workshops, masterclasses, and private one on one coaching. Everything that you need to get help with the business and marketing side of voiceover is available at veopreneur. Paul Cartwright. That's a pretty impressive display you've got in your background there. How many of them are there?

[B]

Yeah, I. There's a few. You know, I'm, I'm. I'm fortunate enough to have had some success in some areas.

[A]

So, yeah, it looks like you've. You've done a. You've done all right for yourself and voiceover. So you, you probably know a thing or two about this game and probably have a thing or two to add to the conversation here.

[B]

Yeah, I hope so. I'm just trying to figure it out like everybody else. But yeah, I've, I've had some fun.

[A]

I was doing a bunch of research on the weekend and trying to figure out what I wanted to talk about, and I had this whole brilliant strategy mapped out for the conversation. And then I came across something last night and I decided we're going to mix this up a little bit. I want to talk about fear.

[B]

Ooh, ooh. Okay, okay. All right.

[A]

I want to talk about fear. Because I think you've got some wise little nuggets from what I've gathered to add to the conversation on fear. As a coach, I don't have hard data on this, but I would estimate that probably about 80% of voice actors, maybe even more, are struggling with fear. And in most cases, it is either fear of failure. I put everything into this and what if it doesn't work? Or fear of success. I put everything into this and what if it does and I'm not ready for it. And I think for me, the irony of those two things is that the root of those are often the same. Right. It's self confidence, it's doubt, it's lack mindset and thinking. But fear is obviously such a big part of this industry, which is in and of itself is a sad and tragic narrative, but something that we all need to deal with. So I would love to hear some of your thoughts on the subject of fear.

[B]

Yeah. This has been such a fascinating thing for me to discover in my journey because as it was happening, I was thinking I was the only one. You know, as it's happening, I was like, oh, man.

[A]

Everyone else, as is often the case. Right, right.

[B]

Everyone else is so confident and everyone else has it figured out. And, and honestly, and you don't know this yet, you're about to find out. You were a major player in my finding out what my relationship was to fear as I was progressing so early on in my career. This is back probably 2017 ish, 2018 ish. As I was kind of jumping into this full, full, full, you know, full force. You were doing your free advice Fridays. And, and I remember back then when I was trying to figure out this industry, I couldn't wait for Friday because I'd always have a ton of questions that I was like, mark Scott, he's going to have answers for me. He's going to. He's going to tell me how this thing goes. And I remember that was kind of when I started recognizing a lot of your answers were, well, yeah, you'll find out as you go. Like, a lot of your answers were, go for it. See what happens. Here's my experience. But you're going to have a different experience. And as I started recognizing that everyone's journey in voiceover is completely unique and totally different, even though they're similar, they're very different. And everyone has very different paths. I started recognizing where I was seeing my fear points, the points where I was like, oh, my goodness, I don't know how this is going to work or how this is going to play out. And so you talked about fear of success and fear of failure. And I saw that the root of it was all the same. It all comes down to I don't know what's going to happen. And so because I don't know what's going to happen and I don't have a crystal ball and I can't see, my first response is, that makes me scared.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had to start working on, okay, so if I'm feeling Scared? What am I scared of? Is it success? Is it failure? Or is it the fact that I'm not in control of some of the things that are coming? And that's where I started. Building my relationship with fear is recognizing it's not about success or failure. It's about what can I control and what can I not control?

[A]

So many of the conversations that I have in coaching when it comes to some of this stuff is, first of all, you're causing yourself massive anxiety over an outcome that you don't even know will exist. Right. So that in and of itself is like, why do we do that to ourselves? And I wish I had the answer to that. I've told my wife so many times, I've joked, I need to go back to school to train to be a therapist, because even though I'm a marketing coach, I feel like 90% of my sessions end up as therapy sessions while we work through some of this stuff. But so much of it is this creating these scenarios or anticipating these potential scenarios. And so much of my advice is often, look, just cross that bridge when you get there. This is voiceover. Okay. In the thermonuclear, most tragic and horrific instance or outcome of anything that we're doing on a given day. Like, we screw up a session.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, right. Like, nobody's going to die. No countries are going to fall, no economies are going to collapse.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

No bombs are going to be set off. Like, maybe we could just relax a little bit, give ourselves the benefit of the doubt. But then the other thing you said, we focus on what we can control. And when you get to that scenario with that outcome that you are unsure of, what is there in that scenario that you can control? Right. My fear of Source Connect. Okay, well, let's go through the Source Connect certification process. Right. My fear of reading for an agent. All right, well, sign up for a workshop and just spend 50 bucks and read for an agent and see what happens. And maybe it actually goes really well, or maybe it sucks, and you're like, oh, that sucked, but I'll be better the next time. Like, there's a solution somewhere inside of your control to so many of those things, but I think we don't make it to that part because we just get roadblocked at the fear. And I read something that you had said in another podcast that I loved. My mindset was always, what's next? Not roadblocks, just next steps.

[B]

Yeah. And a lot of that stemmed from my first professionally produced commercial demo. So I made my Own first demo. I do not recommend that to anyone. I do not suggest that you make your own first demo. I made my own first demo and I blasted like 35 LA and New York agents with this terrible demo. Because I didn't know. I didn't know any better. I was just like, well, yeah, I've got a demo now. And of course no one responded except for one agent and they said, this is a terrible demo. And I was so grateful to that agent because this was like the first transforming opportunity for me because I said, well, wait a second. Okay, so if this is a terrible demo, then what's a great demo? Okay, well, let me find out. So I started researching and I started listening and I started. And I found jmc, you know, and I started listening to demos and Eric Roman out and Anne Ganguza and all these other incredible demo producers. And I started listening and going, oh, so that's what a good demo sounds like. Okay, so I should probably hire one of these people to make a good demo for me. And so this roadblocks that you're talking about, I started putting together in my brain the idea that failure has a negative connotation for so many people. I started shifting my mindset to recognize that failure isn't a negative thing. It's just a learning experience. That's all it is. I made a mis. I built this demo that was not great and I went, okay, I made a demo that was terrible. So now that I've learned that that's a terrible demo and that's not a demo that I should have, I need to make a good demo or I need to go pay for a good demo.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And so I just started reframing my brain to say all these mistakes and failures that I'm making in the industry, they're just learning experiences. Like you said. There's no, there's no one behind a desk going, okay, if you fail this one, here goes the bomb. Like, you're done, game's over, your career's over. I had a lot. I had. I had a national Toyota commercial that I did where they were recording on. I was recording on my end. This was. This was a SAG Toyota national scale commercial. Finished the session and I hadn't recorded.

[A]

Oh, crap.

[B]

And I, I had so many things running through my brain. I was going, okay, so how do I. How do I. Okay. And I just decided in that moment, I'm just going to be honest and transparent.

[A]

Yep. What else can you do, right?

[B]

Oh, no. I was. It was crazy. Like I. There was a short circuit and I lost everything. It was, you know, like, I'm not going to lie.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Emp. I'm sure that's exactly, exactly what it was.

[B]

So I called the client and I said, I am, I am so sorry. I don't know what happened. I thought I was recording. I actually didn't press record. How can we fix this? And you know what the response was? Oh, hey, yeah, that happens. I totally get it. Listen, we're gonna have to book another session. We can't pay you for this session, obviously. And I was like, no, of course not. That was totally on me. Yes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And they, and they scheduled another session and we were fine and it was done. And, and in my brain at that point, that was literally ground zero. That was the worst case scenario that could possibly happen in my voiceover career is that I was an idiot and didn't hit record and it happened. And you know what the client said? Oh yeah, technical stuff happens all the time. Don't worry, we'll, we'll do another session.

[A]

Well, that's what I was thinking about with, with the agent scenario. Everybody wants to land their dream agent, whoever, whoever that agent might be, right? Everybody wants to do that.

[B]

And we'll get to a story, we'll get to a story about that happening with me and that's it.

[A]

I, I don't want to, I don't want to give away the end at the beginning, but you know, you said you, you sent your really bad demo to 35 different LA agents. One of them actually took the time, which is kind of shocking, but also massive respect for that, but took the time to respond and say this demo is no good. A lot of people, that would wreck them. Yeah, right. Like that would break them. But now you're signed by one of those agents, right? It wasn't the end, right? Now at the time, so many people would think this is the end, they would let that fear, you know, this is it. This is my worst fear came true. Everything I thought, every bad thing that I thought, maybe you turned it into a self fulfilling prophecy and maybe that's why you shouldn't think that way in the first place. But just like you recovered from the session, the worst case scenario, and you found a way to recover from it, you just as equally recover from the agent situation and end up getting signed by one. And to me, these are two classic examples of why all of these things that we allow to occupy so much real estate in our brains are just not worth it. It's just not Worth it. Because even the worst case scenario can be overcome with the right attitude and the right work ethic.

[B]

Honesty and transparency literally turned my worst case scenario at the time into, yep, we're happy to schedule another session. You'll be just fine. And it's like, why did I allow so much time and energy to be wasted in my brain on the stupidest thing? That by just being honest and transparent,

[A]

it's fixed, I would say. How many gray hairs did that? Cause. But it looks like you're doing all right in that department.

[B]

Well, no, they're starting. They're starting to peek through. Like, we're starting to get some. But you. You mentioned this agent thing. There. There was a time where I desperately had one specific agency in my sights.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I was like, this is the agency I want to sign with. This is the top of the mountain. Anyone who, if I mentioned this name, everyone would go, oh, that's the top of the mountain. And I said, this is the agency. And I pushed and I thought, and I emailed the agent for three years, every six months. Hey, so? And so, here's what I'm working on. Here's what's going on. I would love to sign with you. I'd love to work with you. Let me know. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. After maybe two years, I got a response finally saying, hey, you're still really green. You're still not what we're looking for, but I appreciate you keep reaching out. And I just kept reaching out for three years. I kept going worse. What's the worst case scenario? They say no. Well, they're already saying no. Okay. So let's just keep going. Well, after three years, I get a response saying, we can't ignore you anymore. We have to bring you just so

[A]

you'll leave us alone. Damn it.

[B]

Right? So they brought me in, we had a meeting. I did a reading for them right there, and they said, you know what? You're right. We need you on T. We need you on board. So they brought me on board. That's. That's like in my head, I'm going, this is it. I'm sitting in there signing the paperwork, and two A listers walk in that. I'm like, you guys are my idols. Like, I worshiped you as a kid. Right. Fast forward two years I've been booking. It's been great. I've been doing jobs that I'm like, these are dream jobs. I stopped getting auditions randomly, and for about a month and a half, I'm going, wait a second. What's going on? I reach out to the agent, I say, hey, I'm just curious. My numbers of auditions dropped dramatically. What's going on? Oh, I'm so sorry, Paul. We were supposed to reach out to you a month and a half ago. We're not renewing your contract.

[A]

Dang.

[B]

Wait, what? Hold on. Timeout. Yeah. Like, you're. You're my dream agent. You're the top of the mountain. What's going on? I'm so sorry that it just things. Things aren't working out. We. And they admitted they said we. We kind of let you fall to the wayside. We didn't give your career the attention it should have. We're sorry for that. It's best you look for a different agent now. Again, we're back to fear.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The. Oh, this is it. If they're dropping me, my career's over. This was the agency. This was the top of the mountain. Oh, everything's over. I've lost everything. Here we go. But I said, okay, well, if they admitted that they didn't do for my career what I wanted them to, I need to find someone who is going to do for my career what I want them to. And after pushing and fighting and seeing and looking and applying, I found a manager who brought me on board and has tripled my income over the past three years.

[A]

Just got to get the right people on your team.

[B]

And they fight for me more than anyone could have ever possibly fought for me. And now I'm sitting better than I could have ever possibly been with this other agency because now I'm at the top of my manager's list as opposed to the bottom of my dream agents list. So huge mental shift for me on that one.

[A]

So much of this is just. It's like an absolute belief, right? This is what I want. This is what the end goal is. Nothing else matters. Because if you don't achieve what the end goal was, you're going to be disappointed in the end. So why not burn the boats, as they say, in pursuit of that goal to get to whatever and just have that absolute belief. And, you know, I've talked about, on the marketing side of things, people talk about, you know, endless follow ups and how annoying that's gotta be. And I have shared a perspective in the past that what if it's not annoying? What if it's a test? What if they are testing to see how committed is this person, how serious is this person? Are they still gonna be here six months from now or a year from now? Because I don't wanna partner with somebody who's just reaching out for a one time deal. Right. And there are people who use that as a screening tool. If you can't be bothered to follow up with me a couple of times, how committed are you really? You put that to the test, right? If you sat 10 voice actors in a room and you said, I want you to email your dream agent every six months for the next three years, I'm gonna guess seven or eight of them are gonna say, well, no, because if I piss them off or I annoy them, then they're never gonna sign me. Yeah. Which is operating from a fear and lack based mindset. But on the flip side of that, if you just continue to persist and obviously you have to be able to back it up. Right. You, you hundred percent and you had the goods, Right. You were booking, you were making money, you were getting credits. Then you get to that point where it's like, okay, we can't ignore you anymore. I would so much rather operate from that headspace than from the what if I annoy them? Well, you know what, what if I annoy them? Who cares? They already haven't signed me at this point. So. Right. I would, I'd rather take my chances and push them until they do and show them that I'm serious and that I'm committed and that I really want this really bad. Because I think that also says something about your character. Yeah, right. You were probably the first guy to respond when the auditions came in, right?

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

You're showing them how serious you are about this.

[B]

And what's funny about that too, is. Is pushing forward then so early, early, early on during those first initial emails, you know, this is probably 2018, I was shooting emails to Michaela Hicks at Eris Talent. She wasn't with Eris at the time, but she was one of the dream agents that I wanted to work with.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay, Fast forward to last year at One Voice Dallas, which was nearly 10 years later. If that's 2017 and we're at 2026. I have, I had been pursuing Michaela, but then once I signed with an agent, I was like, oh, well, you know I'm with another agent.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Michaela and I had been in conversation for near nine years now. I finally signed with Michaela nine years later at Aristotle.

[A]

Are willing to go right that long.

[B]

And it was one of those things where we were at Dallas, we were on a panel together and I said, m. I said, michaela is probably not going to know this, but I've Been wanting to sign with Michaela since 2017. Michaela goes, oh, I know who you are. We've been talking. You're not, you're not lost to me. Like we've been chatting after one voice, Dallas, we put it together and I signed with, and I signed with Michaela. Like nine year process.

[A]

Regrets about those nine years.

[B]

None, zero regrets. Learning, growing, failing, understanding, Making mistakes like building. Yeah, it's all part of it. I think that's, I think that's the thing about fear is that people in the moment are looking at the current fear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not recognizing that. This journey, the whole experience, requires that you have moments where you make decisions based on the unknown, where you make decisions based on. I have no idea how this is going to play out. So either go for it, like, why not? Or find yourself petering off into the corner and being an unknown and not having anything happen.

[A]

Growth, by its very nature should make you uncomfortable. It has to. If you're not, are you actually growing 100%. Go back. Let's go way back. Let's go to London.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Talk about what you were doing in London.

[B]

My goodness. It's one of those crazy things, you know, like you talked about the life journey. Right. Uncomfortable growth. So I, before I got into voiceover, I was convinced I was going to be an on camera actor. Like, that was where I put all my effort and strength. I was doing stage for 20 years and had an opportunity to go train at the Royal Conservatory in England and get my, my master's degree in acting, the British tradition. And I was just like two years in England learning acting, like, done, like, not even a question. So at the time I had two kids and, well, my wife was pregnant with my second. So we moved to England while my wife was eight months pregnant, moved to a foreign country, established ourselves.

[A]

That's not intimidating at all. All right?

[B]

And it's just like, again, we have an opportunity. Why not take it? So we moved there and I got training from some of the best vocal coaches in the world. Those who are fans of Shakespeare have heard of the late Cicely Barry, who was an unbelievably skilled vocal coach in Shakespeare. Allison Bomber, Barbara Houseman, Unbelievable vocal coaches who worked with unbelievable people. And so I spent two years thinking, thinking, oh, this is acting, training for stage and film. Like, this is where it's going to be great. Well, after I graduated from London and moved back to la, we blew our savings in eight months, nine months. I, you know, I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to move back to la. And with this training from England, I'm going to, I'm going to, right, I'm going to book all these roles and it's going to be awesome. And we moved to LA and, and I, our money was gone in eight months and I, I had to get a full time job, door to door salesman selling Internet and TV bundles in Pasadena and Los Feliz and West Hollywood. And I'm, and it was miserable. But once I was introduced to voiceover, all of that training was, was necessary for me to take the expedited path that I did to success in voiceover because the acting training was there, it was already established. And so from there it was just me taking risks and some of them paid off heavily. But London, oh, England, it was just the best.

[A]

My moment came in 2011. I got laid off from the radio job, which was the job that I thought I was going to retire in. And the reason why I got the job was because I told them in the interview, this is the job I'll retire in. I don't want to leave. This is the station that I wanted to get to, to. I'm happy here, I'll stay here. And I, you know, eight months before they downsized me and I remember I spent, you know, a few months sulking around in my apartment after I got laid off, you know, being bummed and being an unemployed bum, lounging in my underwear all day and whatever. But there came a point where I was like, I, I realized, well, wait a minute, I haven't gone to work in several months now, but I've also paid my rent and I've paid my truck insurance and I paid my cable bill. And then you start to think like, well, maybe, maybe I could do something with this voiceover thing. Now I have said all along, I've never denied I was in the perfect situation, the perfect scenario because of the fact that I was a single guy, right? Very limited expenses, I can cut some things if I needed to, didn't need to make a lot of money. But it was that moment of, look, if you were ever going to do this, this is your time to try and see if you can make it work. Your situation was a little bit more intimidating when you, you know, door to door sales. I would love to hear about the conversation you had with your wife and how that went because I can't imagine having that conversation with my wife at this point with four kids. Like, I am so GR that I was able to build my business or start my business when I did the way I did, but I am inspired by how you did it.

[B]

Well, this is a testament to my wife and how she is basically the most incredible person I've ever met in my life because she believed in me and my abilities enough to say, I am happy to go on this journey with you and I'm going to trust that you're going to figure it out. Because the number of times along the way, including hey honey, pack up, we're moving to England. Like the number of times that she was like, hey, if this is your dream and if this is what you think is going to work, let's do it. And something happened very early on in our marriage where I just knew I was going to figure it out. And it took a lot of faith in her because I'll never forget very early on it was probably like day four or five of our marriage. I said, you need to know I'm always gonna figure it out. Okay, we're gonna struggle, but I'm gonna figure it out. And she said, okay, I trust you. And again, a testament to her. So we, we show up in LA thinking I'm gonna be an on camera actor and I'm gonna have, you know, a bunch of opportunities. And every audition I go to is a commercial audition for some product that I couldn't care less about. And everyone in the room looks just like me. There's 25 other guys, we all look the same. And it's just a miserable soul sucking experience that I'm having. Not everyone has that, but I had that in la. And, and so when, when I have to get this job knocking doors, you know, and, and figuring things out, she's like, okay, well as long as you're taking care of us. And I was like, yeah. So I get this full time job to take care of us, to pay the bills. I've got two kids at that time, she's pregnant with a third. And we're in a 700 square foot apartment in Toluca Lake in Studio City. We're on the top floor and we're just crammed into this little box and she's like, okay, let's do this. So my dearest friend who is fantastic, a lot of those who are listening may have heard of her. Stephanie Sutherland, great voice actress. She was friends of ours, she came over one day and she said, well, have you ever thought about voiceover? And I was like, what do you mean? She's like voice acting like, have you ever? And I was like, what, like cartoons? She's like, oh boy, you know, and this is what happens, right? Nobody.

[A]

Those guys, right?

[B]

Like, you have no idea what this is. So she invited me to go with her to vomastery. So Randy Thomas, those who don't know who Randy Thomas is, she's the voice of God for the Oscars, for, you know, ladies and gentlemen, Brad Pitt. Like, she's the vog, right? She had vomastery. So I show up to this conference and I'm like, wait a minute. This is a thing. Like, people make a living doing this. Like, just talking. JMC was there. That was where I first met jmc. My dear friend Brigid, Real love her to death. That was where I first met Brigid. And I started recognizing this. This was like a thing. Like, this was a career. Like, people were doing this. So this was in 2017 when I started going, okay, and I'm putting pieces together. Well, at that time, there was no thought of full time. Like, that wasn't. That didn't even occur to me. Sure. So I just jumped on pay to plays. I bought a microphone, and in my little sliding door closet in L. A, shoulder to shoulder with all my clothes, holding my microphone and my cell phone, I started doing voiceover. And like you were saying earlier, that first full year of doing this, as kind of a try to figure it out, I made $20,000 off of pay to play websites. And I said, okay, this is something.

[A]

Yep, this is.

[B]

This is a thing. This is enough to go. I need to pursue this. So I shifted everything from on camera and stage, I shifted everything to voiceover. And I just said, look, this is where I want to put my eggs. This is the basket. I'm putting everything in here. Well, what happened was as my wife got a job in Utah choreographing and directing a stage production. And at that time, our lease had just expired in Toluca Lake after we'd been there a couple of years, and I had built up enough understanding of the industry and enough connections that we moved from LA back to Utah. And we were in Utah for a couple of years. And this is. This is where I want to. If I could communicate anything to a listener or to an audience, it was this. I was able to find a remote sales position that was my nine to five, that took care of my family, paid the bills, put food on our table, gave us health insurance, took care of the family. Okay, that's our 9 to 5. That's what I'm doing. Every day from 5 to 10:30pm I was with my family. We were doing. I was Spending time with my family, with my wife, building those relationships. When they went to bed at 10:30 or 11, my wife went to bed. I was up 11pm till 2, 3, 4 in the morning, two to three times a week. Figuring out the industry, figuring out what is voiceover, recording, listening back, auditioning, researching. I did that for two years. I was just figuring it out until finally, you know, people say, oh, well, then you're. Then your career took off. My career never took off. Like we talk about, you know, overnight success. It's garbage, right?

[A]

Overnight success, a decade in the making, right.

[B]

I was spending four or five hours, three nights a week staying up, losing sleep, trying to figure out the industry. And that was. That was my life for two years. Just.

[A]

That's the part that so many people miss. How bad do you want it?

[B]

You can't skirt the work.

[A]

Yeah. And that's it. We look for shortcuts, three easy steps. If I just get this program, if I just connect with this person, if I just buy that guy's thing, if. Whatever, right? And because they all promise quick and easy paths to riches, fame and glory or whatever, but it really is. How bad do you want it? I mean, I have said my story for the first four years was I spent 18 hours a day sending marketing emails. I was a single guy. I had the ability to do it. Now, thank God, at that point in my life, I was in a relationship with someone who believed in me more than I believed in myself. And I would have never. I would have. I don't even think I would have tried it without them and without that belief. So, you know, that's a whole other conversation how important having the right person in your corner is. But. But I think people miss out. I mean, even though I say it over and over and over again, four years of working 16 or 18 hours a day, people miss that part. I'm like you. You can't skip that part.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are there unicorns who just happen to have some special gift and just happen to get connected with the right person at the right time? I mean, I suppose those stories are pro out there, but if you look at the vast majority of success stories in this industry, somewhere you will find someone who sacrificed so much and worked so hard to become that, quote, unquote, overnight success. Those trophies in the background aren't an accident. That's all of those nights spent, sleepless nights spent trying to make something happen in pursuit of a dream. And I think that part doesn't get talked about enough.

[B]

I agree. I agree. It's I, I've, I've worked with new voice. You know, people were. All the time, people will say, oh, you know, Paul's a full time voice actor. So I want to be a voice actor. I'll go talk to Paul, I'll reach out to Paul. And the number of times I get to the end of my spiel with these people and I say, great. Are you willing to now spend the next five to 10 years busting your tail, working as much as you can, learning the industry, fighting, clawing, scraping to make this work for the next five to 10 years? Are you willing to put that effort in? I mean, I think that, yeah, I, you know, and you go, then they

[A]

accuse you of being a gatekeeper. Yeah, he's just trying to keep me out of the industry. I got to a point where I would say the very first thing that I would say before we even got, oh, I want to be a voice actor. Can you tell me how to get into this industry? And I said, well, I said right out of the gate, do you have an extra 15 or $20,000? And that often ended the conversation right there. Because I'm like, look, by the time you spend your coaching, you build up your studio, you get your website up and running, you get your couple of demos under your belt, like you're gonna spend 15 or 20,000 easily. And that ends the conversation for a lot of people. But then again, you get accused of being a gatekeeper. You're just trying. And I'm like, no, I'm telling you what I did.

[B]

You want to know how to work?

[A]

Here it is. This is my story. This is not me trying to keep you out of the industry. This is me giving you a realistic expectation of what it takes to get into the industry. And sometimes I think that doesn't get talked about enough. This is, it's not, it's like anything else. It's not supposed to be easy. Right. Like, I think it gets sold often.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

As being easy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is a whole other thing.

[B]

And I think you would agree with me on this one, Mark, that I'm happy to share all the information and wisdom, if there's any that I have. I am happy to tell you every single thing you need to do to be a success in this industry. Like, there's nothing that I'm keeping secret just for me to be successful. And I think that's what's so funny about this notion of gatekeepers. And, you know, oh, you just want to keep us out. It's like, I am happy to Tell you every single thing I did to be successful. And you know what it was? I busted my tail for a whole bunch of years, clawing and scratching. That's what I did. You know, it's fascinating.

[A]

When I started doing coaching and selling courses and stuff like that, a lot of people were like, why are you, why are you giving away all the secrets and creating your competition? I said, well, I'll tell you why. I said, first and foremost, the vast majority of people are not going to actually follow through.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right off the bat, I know that they aren't. And the ones who are willing to follow through, those are the kinds of people I want to have relationships with.

[B]

They deserve it.

[A]

I want, I want that. I want those people in my circle because they push me. And the data backs it up very clearly. The number of people that will sign up for a course and never even watch, they won't even log in once to try to watch it or whatever. And it's because somewhere along the line somebody told them how easy it was going to be. And then I came along and was like, well, actually, I think you might have been given some bad information.

[B]

Yeah. It is not an easy process. And I think that's why I love it so much now, is that because I have spent such a significant portion of the past 10 years trying to make this work, the wins are so much more wonderful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and the opportunities are so much more exciting because I know that I've, I've done the work to get to where I am and I can, I can actively say, and I can, I can say with all confidence, like, I earned this, like I earned this opportunity to be a full time voice actor. And so it's, it has become now something that. It's not a prideful thing or it's not something that I go, hey, I'm a full time voice act. It's like, yeah, I busted my tail.

[A]

I did that. I built, I did that.

[B]

I built a business. Like, that's insane. If you think, you know, when I look back at myself back in those days when I was spending all night trying to figure this out, if you would have told me 10 years from then that I would be where I am now, I would have been like, you're crazy. There's. There's no way. And I had a conversation about this with someone who, who, who we talked about this where we said, when you talk about 10 years from now, where would you like to be if you actually put in the work that you want to put in and you do you accomplish, you know, the things that you're. You're working along the way, and you can. You continued consistently and diligently to work. You are without question going to be further along than where your brain could comprehend at that point. Yeah, if that makes sense. Because I'm now looking at myself 10 years ago going, oh, I'm so far further along accomplishing things that I would have never even thought I could accomplish 10 years ago.

[A]

When you're in the industry for as long as you've been now and continue to have success for as long as you've had success and continued to an upward trajectory, have you ever had a moment where you had. I don't know if reinvent is the right word, but maybe you've had to pivot like you had a read that made you so much money, but then one day that read wasn't making money anymore. Trends come and go. Things in the industry shift or whatever. Have you ever found yourself in that point where you're like, oh, crap, what was working isn't working anymore. Now what do I do?

[B]

Yeah, I've had a few pivots, and I think they're healthy. I think they're important. My first pivot was I was doing a lot of video games in animation, which don't pay very much, but they were so fun, and they were kind of where I was establishing myself. I was establishing myself as a video game actor and an animation actor, and I could not, for the life of me, book commercial to save my life. I couldn't. And finally one day, I made the choice of hiring Tina Marasco, who is an absolute gem with sound and fury. I called Tina and I said, tina, I can't book commercial, and I'm starting to struggle here financially. I need to start booking commercial. What do I do? And she said, let's meet. I scheduled a session with Tina, and basically what happened was, is she played back for me, my audition for. For big projects, and then the one that booked it. So she said, okay, let me play back for you your audition for this spot. Here's the spot that booked, only took two or three. And I went, oh, my word, I know what I'm doing.

[A]

You figured it out.

[B]

And she said, yep, go fix it. So I went back and I fixed it, and all it was was I was trying too hard. Coming from an animation and video game background, I was crafting and creating, and, wow, this is really important copy. And da, da, da. And she's like, you are trying way too hard.

[A]

Just talk to the people Was there any hint of desperation in there?

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

You needed to make money.

[B]

Oh, so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was approaching every commercial audition with, I. I've got to pay the bills, life or death. Like, I have to get this. And finally, Tina was like, you are trying. What are you doing? Just talk. These clients, all they want to hear is just you talking. They don't. They don't want to hear you crafting and making it so dramatic, like, just talk. And instantly I started booking.

[A]

Who else has had a significant impact on your journey? Obviously, I mean, everybody. A lot of people talk about Tina. You know, the library is like the holy grail of voiceover courses, I think. I don't know that there's a successful voice actor that I've talked to at this point that hasn't had some sort of training, whether it's one on ones or done the library or whatever. Who are some of the other people that have had a major impact in your journey over the years? Maybe helped you in that pivot to commercial or continued on your trajectory?

[B]

Yeah, well, I don't want to spend too much time floating your boat, because you probably don't want that. But we talked. We talked a little bit about, you know, free free advice Fridays. Yeah, you. Absolutely. In 2017-2018-2019-2019, you were a pivotal person for me to be. Be watching and referencing and looking back to and saying, okay, what does Mark say about this? What is Mark's advice on this? So. So you were pivotal. Like, you were at the beginning of me going, okay, what's Mark doing? How is Mark doing it? How do I do that? I took a next session from you at VO Atlanta forever ago and learned about direct marketing, and that was huge. So I don't want to keep pounding on because you probably don't want to listen to me do it. So, Mark, you. Okay, Next after that was jmc. J. Michael Collins. Yeah, he. I met him when. When I won the J. Michael Collins scholarship at that's voiceover in 2018. So Rudy Gaskins and Joan Baker. I was selected to win the scholarship, and so I met JMC that way. And Rudy and Jones sent me on another path. They were huge for me at the beginning because they set me up with coaches and some other connections. And then JMC kind of just took me under his wing and just said, hey, let's. Let's rock and roll. I can see there's some potential here. Like, let's go. And so now I work with JMC on demo production and working on some of those Things, especially for video games and animation. And what's been crazy is that these, these people along the way who were kind of. I don't want to say idols, I don't want to say mentors. Yes. But people who I looked up to and people who, in the industry, I was like, oh, my word. Like, these are at the top of the thing. They have now become friends and colleagues. And it's weird at times being like,

[A]

kind of blows up the game narrative, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, wait a second. Like you're.

[A]

Wait, friend, you're in the VO Illuminati. Exactly.

[B]

Like, wait a second. Like you. I can call you. I can just like reach out and talk to you and you can like chat with me. It's. It's been unbelievable to see how quickly people love one another in this industry and help one another and don't. The ego level in this industry is so much lower than I thought it was going to be. People are genuinely good people.

[A]

During a free Advice Friday, probably about a month ago, I was talking about the fact that I was working with JMC on a new commercial demo and somebody asked the question, you know, like, why are you doing your demo with jmc? It's. It's so expensive. And I said, well, because he's the best. Like, I want to give myself the best shot at success. And so that guy doesn't have. I, I am convinced that he has a secret warehouse somewhere storing all of his service awards and One Voice awards. Like, there has to be an off site somewhere for all of those trophies. And I'm like, you don't get those by accident.

[B]

No.

[A]

And you don't get the access that he has by accident. And I, I wasn't implying that by doing a JMC demo that was going to be the catalyst to get me in with all of these other people. But could it open some doors?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Because there are agents now who ask the question, who did your demo?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And I don't think they're asking that question because it's like a payola thing amongst demo producers as much as it is. Okay, you worked with somebody really good. Let me give that a listen. Versus I have no idea who this person is or whatever. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this. I think that stuff matters. And I think when the industry is as saturated as it is and everybody's sending demos and there's a million different demo producers, you have to have a way to filter. And so if a JMC demo costs 500 or $1,000 more than some of the other demos that are out there. But that gets me an open door or at least a chance to knock on some doors. I'm going to make that investment all day long. Like, why wouldn't I? Right? And so I think what people miss, too part of it.

[B]

I think what people miss too is that jmc, he's not just producing demos to. To produce demos for people. He knows the casting directors.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He knows the people who are making the decisions.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So when the copies being crafted, when he's coaching people as to what voice, you know, how to approach the copy, he's approaching it from the standpoint of, I know who's going to be casting you, so I'm helping cater your copy to be for these casting directors. That's one of the things that kills me about new. New talent who are like, well, I can just make my own demo. And it's like, well, yeah, you could. Let me tell you my story. But at the same time, these demo producers who know what they're doing are crafting a demo that is specifically built for your skills to be showcased amongst the casting directors and the clients who are going to be hearing them. It's such a different ballgame than demo mills. And let's just throw some music behind some spots. We did like this. It kills me how, how people need to recognize the reason they're charging so much is because they are catering your demo to the casting directors and the people who are going to be buying your voice. It's huge.

[A]

I had that conversation with somebody recently who I explained how, you know, JMC and I had a conversation before, when we were. When I was ready, after I'd finished some coaching and I was ready to start going on the demo. He's like, okay, well, talk to me about what. What kind of spots do you want? Are there certain brands that you want to have? Do you. You know, are there certain types of reads or whatever? And this other. The person that I was speaking to had gone through an experience where it was like they. Their producer just handed them some scripts and said, here, record these. And there was no back and forth. Right. And. And I said to JMC from the very beginning, I'm like, look, this is your thing. Like, I am putting myself in your hands and completely at your mercy and trusting that you know what you're doing. And when we were in the session, he had me do a couple of things in a couple of the reads, and I'm like, what? Like, I Don't understand what's happening right now. But it's like, Mark, this is why he's jmc. Do whatever he tells you to do. Trust that he has a plan and a vision. And like you said, he knows we talked about up front, like, what is your goal for this demo? Like, we had that conversation right from the very beginning. And so I, I trust that that's, you know, that he knows what he's doing. So getting the right people in your corner is so much of this. And it's. You have to be so careful how you talk about it because you can make it sound like there is an Illuminati or, you know what I mean? But it's not. I don't think it's any different from any other profession. And getting in front of the right person, getting together with the right teacher, the right coach, the right mentor, the, like, going to the right school, taking whatever it is right. You want to give yourself the best chance for success. And in this industry, in voiceover, there are some people that I think can do that for you.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

If you choose to make that investment and work with them. Why wouldn't. If Tina Marasco is one of the most respected casting directors in the free

[B]

world, why would you not.

[A]

Why would I not want to sit down and do a session and find out what she has to say about the auditions that I'm submitting for, for the commercials that she's casting?

[B]

Like, you know, it's a no brainer.

[A]

It kind of feels that way. Yeah. And it's not because Tina Morasco is a gatekeeper. It like she wants us to succeed. Right. The better we are, the easier her job is. And so just getting connected with the right people. I. I had. It's interesting to have this conversation with you because a couple of weeks ago, I had Samantha Damiano on my podcast. And Sam is very new. Right. She's only been in the game for a couple of years, but Sam recognized early that part of her path to success was going to be connecting with the right people and building the right network. And that was one of the reasons why I wanted to have her on the show. Because I think there's also this perception that, you know, you gotta be at a certain level before you get access to certain people. And it's like Sam's been in the game for two years, and her network is better than mine at this point because she just knows how to make connections and meet the right people and get the right people in her corner, and that's paying off for her now.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And she's finding success in her. Her business as a result of that. And obviously it's still up to her to be good at what she does. Right. You still got to. You still got to deliver the goods, but it doesn't hurt to learn from the right people. The coaching doesn't stop for you, does it?

[B]

No. You kidding? There was a session I did just two days ago. Today is Monday, Tuesday, Friday. Three days ago, I did a session with a client where I reached over during a break and I turned my gain all the way down and I went, I have no idea what I'm doing. And then turn the game back up. Like, I still to this day will get in sessions where I go. I don't know what I'm like, what is going on? I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I can't connect. The coaching never stops anyone who thinks that this is a make it and you're done. Like, you're insane all the time.

[A]

I went to the Royal Conservatory. I have everything I need now. Right.

[B]

I worked with some of the. I literally worked with some of the best voice coaches in the world and I'm still going. I don't know how to do this. I can't figure this out.

[A]

My.

[B]

I don't know. My brain's not work, like, all the time. I'm looking at coaches and I'm looking at coaches for. On camera and voice and like, and, and. And I'm learning. I can't just stay in one lane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't just go hide in voiceover corner and just say, like, why would I not take the opportunity to learn different approaches from different mediums and see how that connects to voiceover and how that can grow and expand my abilities? Like, I'm not just working with voice coaches. I'm working with acting coaches and life coaches and, and anyone else who, who I think, hey, there's something I could learn from this because it's, it's. Life is just constant learning all the time.

[A]

I think one of the things that I have learned, I read a ton of biographies and, and I love particularly entrepreneurial, you know, entrepreneurs, business people, political, you know, famous historical figures and stuff like that too. But I think one of the common themes throughout is this, in this willingness to be. Invest in yourself, right? Like, it doesn't just stop and it needs to be part of your budget. It's, it's like, it's literally, there should be a line item for future coaching sessions or being able to jump into a workshop or whatever. And I mean, one thing that we certainly do not have in this industry is a shortage of opportunities to learn. Now, yes, sometimes you've got to weed through it to find the good ones, but the opportunities continue to exist. When you made the pivot into commercial, you said you worked with Tina and listened to. She played back some of the auditions, and you heard from some of those auditions what you were doing wrong. How long did it take you? And was there anything else that you did before you started booking commercial consistently? Because I know you're booking commercial.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Consistently now.

[B]

Yeah. It. Honestly, for me, thankfully, it didn't take very long. And I think it was because once I found what I was doing and connected that and realized it, I just locked in and said, okay, so for the next, you know, six months, I'm not going to pivot from what I've learned.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm not going to make too many changes because I found the change I'm going to make. I'm going to. I'm going to lock in on this and go with this and see where this takes me for the next six months. Months, and if it doesn't work, then we'll reassess. And I locked in and it started working, and I started booking like crazy with commercial, and now I do probably 80% commercial, 20% video games and animation. And so made it. Made the finance, the financial difference for me, changed everything. And like I said, my manager has tripled my income by just reaching out and saying, you got to work with this guy, you got to hire this guy. You got it. You got it. You got to book this guy. And so. Yeah.

[A]

Are you still doing pay to place?

[B]

I am not anymore. I am. This. This is what's crazy. And this is where everyone's journey is totally different because people oftentimes do mixes. I am 100% agent and manager income right now. Yeah. Which is nuts.

[A]

It is. It really does make you a little bit of a unicorn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The number of people that I have had a conversation with who are 100% are, you know, it is a very small.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Percentage of people. But it's also a testament to everything that you've just spent the last hour talking about the. The hard work that you put in getting in front of the right people, doing the right things, making sacrifices along the way. Right. Like, you didn't get there by accident.

[B]

But at the same time, I think, where else can I go? I mean, how many times have I had the conversation with myself going, what are you leaving on the table by not doing direct marketing? What are you leaving on the table by not? Like, are there other avenues you. You. You should be pursuing? Because I'm at a place where, thankfully my time right now is so valuable that I'm using it specifically for this. Right. But. But could I squeeze in two hours of direct marketing, and what would that bring for me? You know, like, it doesn't just end. You don't just say, great, I've got agents and managers and cam done. I'm still thinking, huh? Are there revenue streams I could be tapping into? Are there opportunities I could be tapping into that I'm missing on pay to play or direct marketing by just being 100% agent manager? Yeah.

[A]

You lost an agent once. Yeah, like several.

[B]

I've lost several.

[A]

If all the eggs are in that basket, there's a. There's a certain risk that comes with that as well. Yep. You went through some struggle and listening to your story, I mean, obviously having. I could literally do an entire podcast episode on how important it is to have the right person in your corner or the right support system. Right. With a spouse or whatever. Was there ever a point where you thought, this is over, I need to figure something else out for the sake of my wife, my kids, my family or whatever. I just. I want you to leave a parting thought for the voice actor who is in the struggle right now and trying to decide, do I keep going? Do I try something different, or do I pack it all in? And obviously, every circumstance is a little bit different, but you've. You've had your been there, done that moment, and I'm sure you picked up some wisdom along the way from experiencing that.

[B]

This would be my. My final parting wisdom. You can't fail if you don't quit. And the number of times where I have thought, it's all over. I don't know if I could count them. Yeah, happens all the time. Even just two weeks ago, I had a brief moment of, oh, am I going to be okay two weeks ago. It has been incessant and constant over the past however long I've been doing this, but I just keep telling myself, if I don't quit, then it's going to work out. So I just keep going.

[A]

That's good, Paul. I think you might be the first quintuple threat that I've ever had on the podcast. So actor, singer, voice actor, impressionist, filmmaker. Did I miss anything?

[B]

Listen, I may do those things, but level of professionalism within them is debatable. But, yeah, I. And I think this, I think this stems from I just want to learn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I just want to. I just want to do things. I just want to learn there.

[A]

And how can it benefit me in other ways? Yeah.

[B]

Because. And honestly, filmmaking, you bring this up as a, as a, as an ending piece. I jumped into filmmaking and continue my on camera acting purely for that reason of what happens if voiceover ends.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I want another avenue.

[A]

I think that's business 101.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's wealth building 101. Multiple income streams. Right. You do some coaching.

[B]

I do when time permits. So it's one of those things where if you're interested, reach out, let's talk and see if there's an opportunity. But I don't, I don't consistently coach as. Because I'm busy, because I'm working, which is how I want it.

[A]

Such a tough problem to have.

[B]

Right. My goodness. I tell my wife all the time, I don't get to complain about anything in life. Yeah, I don't get to complain. I'm working. My dream job with my family. I can work from home. I just built a studio and a booth at home. I don't get to complain about anything in life. Utah, Still Utah.

[A]

So I think that's worth noting as well.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I, I live not in LA or New York.

[A]

Not in LA. And 100% agent manager, income stream. Not in LA.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah, it's possible.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

Paul, this has been brilliant.

[B]

Awesome party.

[A]

This was. I. I've got multiple hours of research that I ended up using none of

[B]

because

[A]

you just took me in a whole different direction. That was absolutely perfect. I loved this conversation and I think that it's going to be very inspiring and encouraging for some people to hear. I think there's things that people need to understand and hearing it from. Sometimes people don't want to hear from the successful voice actors because they're like, I'm not at that level. But they forget that you didn't start there. Right. Like, you had struggle and you walked the road just like every other voice actor is walking the road. And I love hearing about the path that you took.

[B]

Well, just being on this podcast is a full circle moment for me where it's like there was a long time where I was like, oh, my gosh, Mark Scott. Oh, he's, you know, da, da, da. And now it's like, oh, my word. I'm sitting here chatting with Mark Scott as a peer. Like, this is how it works. You just get in the game and you put your head down and you fight and you keep going and you don't stop. And then one day you wake up and go, oh, I'm on Mark Scott's podcast.

[A]

I don't know what I think about the fact that so many people think that that's like a pinnacle moment,

[B]

but

[A]

it comes up every once in a while. But Paul, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for everything that you've had to share. We'll put your website in the show notes. If anybody does want to reach out and have a conversation or even just drop a comment to say thank you, please, they can do that through the show notes. But this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[A]

I truly do hope that you were inspired and encouraged from this really incredible conversation with Paul Cartwright. And so of the nuggets of wisdom that he shared. If you were, could you do me two quick favors? First, wherever you're enjoying this podcast, make sure you subscribe so you'll always get notified when new episodes go live. And second, drop a comment or leave a review. And that helps other people to find out about the everyday veopreneur podcast.