← Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott
Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott
How to Stand Out and Stop Playing it Safe in Your VO Auditions with Kelly Moscinski
01:01:20
Loading summary
Transcript201 lines
- [00:00]
A
Most people submit their safe take first. They also always do the take they think the client wants. But again, client doesn't know what they want. Just do a few takes before you even look at the specs. A lot of times those end up being the strongest takes. If you slate and I said not to slate automatically goes in the no folder. Be unapologetically themselves. I call it authentically unfiltered.
- [00:25]
B
You're a voice actor.
- [00:27]
A
You're an entrepreneur.
- [00:28]
B
You're a veopreneur.
- [00:30]
A
Welcome to the everyday veopeneur podcast, your guide through the business of voiceover.
- [00:35]
B
If you're ready to take your business to the next level, I'm ready to help you do it with Voiceover Marketing Playbook. I'm going to teach you everything that I have learned about marketing in the last decade and I'm going to condense it down into eight hours of the most actionable, practical advice that you need with none of the fluff and rah rah that you don't. A step by step, easy to follow marketing course that's going to teach you how to find your own leads, build your own client base, and become the consistently working voice actor you want to be. Playbook is out in October. Get the details and sign up for the waitlist@voiceovermarketingplaybook.com Are you on the edge.
- [01:08]
A
Of your seat yet?
- [01:09]
B
You should be. The voiceover booth can be an isolating place, particularly when you're trying to audition alone while simultaneously trying to get inside the head of the person who is sending those scripts. Now, if only there was some way that we could speak to them and find out what it is that they really want. Well, it is your lucky day, my friends, because one of those people is with me on the show. She's been in the casting world for nearly 20 years and she's ready to share all of the secrets, or, you know, most of them, maybe. Welcome to the show. Kelly Mashinsky.
- [01:42]
A
Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
- [01:45]
B
This is going to be really good. Casting directors, very popular people in the voiceover space. And, you know, this might be a nice way to do it. You know, answer all the questions for a thousand people in one interview as opposed to, you know, a thousand different people stopping you in the hallways of an event or whatever, and everybody asking the same questions over and over and over again.
- [02:03]
A
And I love it. I love it.
- [02:07]
B
So, I mean, we can talk about voiceover and casting and that's fine, but I am a dad with four daughters whose house is in a perpetual State of chaos. And my research tells me that one of your special skills is actually home organization.
- [02:25]
A
It is, it is.
- [02:27]
B
What is your best? I don't know. Marie Kondo Joy Sparking House Organization. Like, I can tell that we just walked into your lane right here. The way your face just lit up. You're like, forget the casting stuff, let's just talk about this.
- [02:43]
A
I mean, I get interviewed for casting all the time right now on the organizing and like decluttering space. I was on a minimalism podcast last year. You know, things like that. But I don't get asked about it too often, but I am a, a certified organizational specialist. You know, I, I have two little ones myself. A four year old and a seven year old. So it's, it's chaotic. I understand that part now. Four is probably even crazier. And four girls at that. Props to you. I have one girl and one boy, so I know what can come with the girls. So, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, it's honestly, gosh, there's so many things I.
- [03:31]
B
Could go into my organization tip is this. I walk into the house, my wife is massively stressed, and I say, look, if anybody comes over, it looks like we have a house with four daughters that gets lived in.
- [03:43]
A
Yes.
- [03:45]
B
And if they want to judge me because of all the toys and the chaos, then maybe I don't want to be their friend.
- [03:51]
A
Anyway, you know, my motto is five minutes matters. So even if I only have five minutes to pick up the house, the whole house is not going to get picked up in five minutes, even if all four of us are working on it. But five minutes can make a little bit of a dent. And that's, that's my biggest motto for, for cleaning and organizing.
- [04:10]
B
It's, it's always a battle because I'm at the point legitimately where I'm like, I don't care, whatever. This is our house, we live in it. This is what it looks like. You know, as long as I don't break my neck while I'm trying to walk from one room to the other because I tripped on something, my wife, it just causes her endless stress chaos. And she has not reached that, that woo and breathe point of just, just let it be. Just let it be. You know, one day the kids will be gone and then we won't have to worry about it anymore. But for the next 20 years, this is our life.
- [04:41]
A
Yep. Yep. It is a battle. And getting kids to pick up anything is a battle. So yeah.
- [04:49]
B
Yep. And, and I choose my battles. And that is not one of the battles that I choose to have.
- [04:55]
A
Nope. There's too many other ones that need a lot more than that.
- [05:01]
B
So I understand that you are also an avid audiobook listener. Fiction or nonfiction or both?
- [05:09]
A
A nice combination of both. I tend to go back and forth. It's like, I will. I'll listen to a memoir, and then I'll jump over to a suspense or thriller. You know, things like that. So. So, yeah, a little bit of everything.
- [05:23]
B
So I'm a nonfiction guy, always on the lookout for a good recommendation. So what's one of the best ones you listen to lately that you're like.
- [05:30]
A
Ooh, I. Oh, I've got a couple of them. So I just recently re. Listened to Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. Good for creatives. Green Lights, Matthew McConaughey's memoir, was actually really good, and it's even better when you listen to it because it's narrated by him. Of course, you know, there's all kinds of things. Jane lynch has a fantastic autobiography as well, so. And again, if you can listen to it read by her, she gives even more stories and kind of goes. Goes outside just what's written in the book.
- [06:05]
B
So apparently I. I live under a rock, and so I had never heard of Green Lights before, even though, I mean, I know McConaughey. Right. But I know of him. I don't know him, but I was listening to a podcast with Dean Graziosi, who is somebody who works with Tony Robbins often, and Dean helped Matthew turn that book, or the premise of that book into a seminar, basically. And so Dean was talking all about it, and I was like, okay, now I'm intrigued. So when I was on vacation in July, I picked up a copy of Green Lights, and I read it, and wow.
- [06:39]
A
Yeah.
- [06:41]
B
Wow. So unexpected.
- [06:44]
A
That's how I felt.
- [06:45]
B
So good.
- [06:46]
A
Yep.
- [06:47]
B
There were parts when I was like, I wonder how it is that this guy is still alive, like, some of the things that he has done. But if you want to talk about just straight up, raw, open honesty, just that in and of itself, there's probably a lesson in there for voice actors on how to be authentic, because I don't know that I've. I mean, I'm a big biography guy. I don't know that I've ever read anything as just open and authentic as Greenlights. It was. That's a good recommendation.
- [07:22]
A
Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorites.
- [07:25]
B
So let's talk about the stuff that everybody really wants to talk about. I mean, I want to talk about all this stuff. I'm curious about all this stuff, but I know everybody's looking for casting advice. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm probably looking for some casting advice too, but that's what I'm here for. You sent out over 300 cover letters and resumes. So let's talk about patience and persistence, for one thing. And despite no responses, you decided it would be a good idea to move to LA anyway.
- [07:53]
A
Yes, I did talk about what that felt like. Yep. I, I moved to Los Angeles with. I mean, with nothing. My. My boyfriend at the time, my husband. Now we've been together for 20 years. And yeah, it was just originally I was planning on going to New York. Long story short, I originally started in pre med. I was. I was going to be a doctor psychiatrist, and I decided to go the theater route. I was doing a ton of directing. Kind of got into. Into the voiceover world that way, just through friends, recommendations. You work with actors. I need somebody for this, you know. Um, so I submitted to, yeah, over 300 back in the day when it was actual cover letters and resumes through the mail and not. Not just email. Right, right. So, yeah, I ended up. I put that out into the world and nothing came of it. And I still. And this was a few months before I was thinking about moving and then we decided just to pack up all of our stuff and drive out here from Michigan and that. That was about it. So it was about. It was a few months of just kind of living off of savings, doing some theater work and stuff here and there, which we all know theater doesn't really pay the bills, so mostly living off of savings. And then, yeah, Huck Liggett, who was the owner of the Voice Caster at the time, reached out and he said he's been hanging on to my cover letter and resume for months. And he had a spot open up and wanted to bring me in. I had also interviewed with a talent agency that same week and they wanted to bring me in at the time as a junior agent. And the two interviews, completely different worlds. And that is exactly when I knew, okay, I want to go into casting and I am not talent agent material, so.
- [09:59]
B
So you burned the boats, so to speak. A little bit of a cultural transition, probably from Michigan to LA as well. I love to drive through Michigan and visit Michigan every once in a while. But I've. I mean, I mean, if you, if you had to ask me, I would so much rather spend the winters in LA than, you know, Traverse City.
- [10:20]
A
Yep. And I grew up on Lake Superior.
- [10:22]
B
So so, you know, snow, you know, cold, you know, wind chill.
- [10:27]
A
We kept the shovel inside so we could open the door and shovel our way to the car every morning. So I do not need to do that again.
- [10:35]
B
Yep. I fully understand. I fully understand. So it all worked out, which is good. Very successful career now, going on two decades. I read something in another interview that you had done, and I'd like to dig into it because I think it's pretty fascinating. It's a fun advice. So it's advice. Well, there's nuance here. Right? You know, not everything is black and white. There's always got a little be. Be a little bit of gray. But here's what you said. You spend hours every week auditioning and hearing little to nothing back. Did the casting director hear the audition? Maybe, but maybe not. Did the producer hear it? Maybe, but maybe not. Did the client hear it? Maybe, but maybe not. But the first thing to understand is you will never know definitively. So why waste time worrying about it? That is so good.
- [11:30]
A
Yep.
- [11:32]
B
And we all suck at it.
- [11:34]
A
Yep. Yep. I mean, you know, it's like we all do just as humans, you know, that's. Yeah, we're. We're human. You know, we're gonna. We're gonna worry about things like that. We're gonna be concerned about that. We all always worry about things that we have no control over.
- [11:52]
B
And it's never an easy answer. And that's, I think, the part that drives us the craziest. Right. Like, it's never as simple black and white as you were good or you were bad. It could be that you were perfect, but you had the wrong name because the client's ex wife shares your name, and he doesn't want that. Like, whatever. Like, you never know. And yet we totally drive ourselves insane over this. So how do we not.
- [12:24]
A
I like to think of it as. I use the analogy of, you know, you have a bowl of M and Ms. And you. Your audition is the red M and M. When we go and pick an M and M, we're not rejecting the red M and M. It's just on that time we go into the bowl, we grab a blue one. The next time we grab a brown one. The next time we grab the red one, you know, so it's one of those things where it is very much like it's not being rejected. You just were not chosen for that particular role. There's another role that's coming that's for you, and you just. It's. It's almost impossible. But you have to kind of trust that that's gonna. That's gonna happen. If you are doing the work on your end, you know, if you are making your choices, if you're specific in your, you know, you have that idea of. Of being authentic to yourself and not trying to be what you think we want, because, spoiler alert, we don't know what we want.
- [13:26]
B
Has there ever been a client in the history of casting that knew what they wanted the first time out of the gate?
- [13:31]
A
No.
- [13:32]
B
Yeah, I didn't think so.
- [13:33]
A
No. And so often it comes down to. It's like, well, we'll submit. You know, we call them wild cards, right? And it's like, we'll submit somebody who's just a little outside the box. But I'm like, oh, but they're like, the choices are so good. And it' like, if they want to direct them into the little box we all hear, you know, commercials falling into or, you know, then they're going to be able to do that. But those are the auditions that stand out, and that's because of that authenticity. So what actors can worry about is bringing that authenticity to every audition, and then just knowing it's the right project is going to come along for you.
- [14:11]
B
I'm curious at the level that you're at, and I think you're at a higher level, you know, tend to be doing national stuff, working with the really reputable agents and stuff like that. So I'm guessing the people who are playing at that level, the voice actors who are playing at that level, who are getting access to your auditions. If we're getting access to your auditions, we probably don't suck, right?
- [14:35]
A
Yep.
- [14:36]
B
And so.
- [14:37]
A
Exactly.
- [14:38]
B
So, I mean, there is a little bit of comfort in that. Yeah. It's frustrating when you keep submitting and you don't hear anything back, but odds are it's not because you suck.
- [14:50]
A
Exactly.
- [14:51]
B
It could be that you're, what, this small of a tweak away from getting the next level or. Or whatever it is. But, you know, having a little bit of confidence and just continuing to submit and do the thing right.
- [15:05]
A
Yep, yep. And being. Being willing to be yourself, you know, it's like, that's. That is the hardest thing to do, right? It's like as. As actors, it's always like, oh, I just like, I want you to be yourself. And people are like, oh, how do I be myself? I don't. I don't know how to be myself. What do I do? You know? And it's like, what does authenticity mean? What does conversational mean, you know, all these words that tend to be overused, but ultimately, all we mean when we're talking about conversational is relatable. We want to relate to you human to human, you know, and more and more, we want. We want to hear the imperfections. We want to hear the flaws. We want to hear your personality. That's what's going to book the job versus doing the final spot for the audition, which is. Which is a huge difference, and people don't really understand the difference between the two.
- [15:57]
B
So in those moments when I stumble and then I swear and go back and start over, you're saying, don't edit that out, because that's. That's authentically.
- [16:08]
A
And some. You know, there are some clients where it's like, I might. I might send them something funny like that. Most of them, I wouldn't. But, you know, I had somebody. I had somebody book a job recently who slurred a word in her audition, and she was like, oh, Kelly, I loved this take. I sent it to you because it's you. And, you know, I know you, but, you know, everything felt right about this take. But I. But I slurred this phrase, and I'm like, it's fine. Let's send it. In fact, I'm gonna put that take first on your audition track because it was so authentic. And she booked the job.
- [16:40]
B
Yeah. It's funny. The older that I get, I think maybe the less that I care. And. And what I mean by that is, like, trying to achieve that perfection, trying to get every take spot on, trying to really get inside the mind of what are they actually looking for? Like, just making myself crazy, right? And the older I get, I'm like, whatever. Just submit the dumb thing and get on to the next. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. I just mean that in a way of. I think maybe that's where there's a little bit of authenticity comes from that, because you're just like, just relax and submit it. Go do the next one.
- [17:17]
A
Yep, yep. Do. Do your best. And that's it. You know, it's. Nobody is expecting perfection.
- [17:24]
B
I don't do a ton of casting, but I. I've helped clients from time to time. They'll ask me, you know, for something that I can't deliver. And. And I'm always willing to help them find what they're looking for. And when I send out auditions, I offer very specific, very detailed instructions, like, label it this way, submit this type of file, et cetera. Et cetera. And part of that is to help me organize submissions. But I will admit that part of it is also a test to see who is paying attention. If I can't trust you to read the specs or name a file correctly, like, why would I want to trust you with my clients? I'm watching you nod your head because I know you have thoughts on this. Very strong feelings about this. Don't you, Kelly?
- [18:07]
A
No, I do. I do. And it's one of those things that drives me absolutely bonkers because I literally lay it out. Like, if you look at a voice caster script, you are going to see the script, the specs, the audition instructions, always in that order. It's very rare that we send something out unless it's like a same day rush or something where we don't have time to reformat everything. You will always see our same format on the auditions. And so it's. I literally tell you, do you slate or not? How many takes and how to label the file? And it's. It's shocking sometimes. Maybe it's not shocking. I don't know. It's not shocking anymore.
- [18:46]
B
It used to be shocking. Now it's like, I just expect it. I'm like, okay, If I collect 15 auditions, how many of them am I going to throw out this time? Like, which is. I hate to feel that way.
- [18:58]
A
But now imagine getting 600 or 1600.
- [19:02]
B
So you really eliminate them. If somebody screws it up, do you. If it's a great take or do you even listen to it?
- [19:09]
A
I don't even listen. I don't even listen.
- [19:10]
B
Listen.
- [19:11]
A
So I'll give you a quick overview of my casting process if you want. So I download everything, and then from there, the very first thing I do, I create three folders. A yes, no, and a maybe. And I start sorting all of these files into those folders. So the first thing is I can tell right away if they're not labeled correctly because they're all wonky in the folder, right? The alphabetical, all of that. So first thing I do is I grab those, I put them into my no folder.
- [19:39]
B
How many is that? Average percentage?
- [19:41]
A
I mean, 10%.
- [19:44]
B
Really?
- [19:44]
A
Yeah, dang. Yeah, 10%.
- [19:47]
B
Taking themselves out because they can't label a file.
- [19:49]
A
Yep. Yep. Dang. And it is. It is very rare. If it's somebody that I know really well and I know they're perfect for this, then I will overlook something like labeling. But even that's pretty rare because it's like I'm not even paying attention to who labeled incorrectly? I'm just putting them in that folder. I am narrowing things down now.
- [20:10]
B
If you got 600 of them to sort through, right. Like, come on.
- [20:13]
A
Yeah, yeah. So then the next thing is, I start listening through. You get three to five seconds per person. That's it. Those first three to five seconds. So if you slate and I said not to, slate automatically goes in the no folder. I won't hear anything besides the slate that you weren't supposed to do, or vice versa. If I need a slate and you don't, slate goes in the no folder because I can't add a slate for you. So then, yeah, I'm listening. And three to five seconds, something has to capture my attention. I will tell you of. Of the rest of the auditions that I have, you know, say 600 is an average. I have about maybe 100, if that 80 to 100, that will make it into my yes folder. And that's because they did something different. Most people submit their safe take first, and if that safe take is first. So that's the take that, you know, everybody has that instinct. When you read through a commercial script, you can hear how it's going to sound. If you have had any sort of experience in commercials or, you know, auditioning at all, then it's one of those things where it's like you can hear. You can hear the commercial in your head, right? So people always give that take first, and then they also always do the take they think the client wants as their first take. But again, client doesn't know what they want. So I don't know what you're doing.
- [21:35]
B
How are you even trying to figure that out?
- [21:37]
A
Everybody else, literally everybody else. It is one of those things where it's like the cadence is the same, the tone is the same, they hit the same words, they put the pauses in the same places. So out of, you know, 500 people, I have over 400 doing the exact same thing. Second takes might be great, might be totally different, might have the personality. They will never get heard if I can't get past the first three to five seconds. So from there, once I go through everybody, then I go back into my yes folder and I will start listening again. I will listen to the first three to five seconds of the first take as well as the first three to five seconds of the second and or third take. So. And that's where I'm listening for range. Are they showing a range in just those first three to five seconds? You know, it's like I tell people, go back and Listen to some of your old auditions. Listen to only the first five seconds of each take. Is there something different? Did you have a different intention? Did you have a different take right from the first word? Because so often people start the same and the take changes. So the takes are different, but those first three to five seconds sound the same. So that is the round where then I'm looking for range because I want to be able to see what people can do.
- [22:54]
B
So out of 600, like, 20, 25% are making it easily to the S pile.
- [23:03]
A
Yep.
- [23:04]
B
What percent? I know you said 10% right off the bat because they didn't label it right. Or whatever. What total percent are going into the no pile for other slated when they weren't supposed to slate, clearly didn't follow the specs, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
- [23:22]
A
I'd say probably at least another 10 to 15%.
- [23:26]
B
So 25% on an average casting are ending up in the trash pile just because of simple instructions.
- [23:34]
A
Yep.
- [23:35]
B
That's insanity. Wow.
- [23:38]
A
Yeah.
- [23:40]
B
So if you're paying attention and you're good, your odds are not 1 in 600. At that point, your odds are like 1 in 100, 1 in 200.
- [23:48]
A
Yep. Yep.
- [23:49]
B
Wow. Interesting.
- [23:52]
A
Yeah.
- [23:54]
B
So, I mean, I think maybe to a degree, you just answered this, but when we all bring the same thing to the table in that we all have our professional demos, everybody has source connect, everybody's got a great home studio, everybody's trained with. Well, most people have trained with great coaches or whatever. And so there is a level of a playing field, a level playing field there. How are we standing out? How do we not when we all do the same thing? Like, I mean, you hit on a couple of things there. Not maybe, you know, maybe not submitting the take that you think should be first, you know, maybe submitting the other one first just to pop out or whatever. But what are some of the things that. What are some of the things that maybe you've heard where you're like, oh, you know, makes you. That one doesn't get three seconds, that one gets 15 seconds or whatever. Like, what are those types of things?
- [24:52]
A
Personality is probably number one. You know, it's like just bringing. Bringing yourself to it. People get so scared. Especially, you know, on the. On the commercial side, especially, obviously, animation, video games, people, you know, doing character work tends to be easier for people, whereas commercials people tend to phone it in or they play it safe. And it's like, we want to hear that personality. We want to hear your point of view. I want you to have opinions. You know, it's like, not everything has to be rainbows and sunshine. Like, I want to hear your opinion about what's happening in the spot. So it. It comes down to that personality. It comes down to that authenticity. And by authenticity, I just mean allowing yourself to be you. You know, it's. It's knowing a clear point of view that you're coming from, having a clear intention. So, you know, everybody always is. You know, put yourself in the scene, make sure, you know, you're talking to. Intention is huge. You have to know why you're talking about this. You know, so that is one of those things where you can get really specific on that and it can be so interesting. You know, it's. Instead of just who are you talking to? It's. It's. You could talk to somebody, just a friend, as they always say, right? Talk to a friend. You can talk to yourself. You know, it's like, it's more really good at that. It's more of the reason you are talking about this and trying to be as specific as possible. So it's. And it's thinking outside the box. I think a big part of it is also just opening it up to. A lot of times with commercials, people are like, oh, I'm selling this product. What if we don't say we're selling this product? Because then you're going to automatically sound announcer, right? It's. You're sharing this. You are informing someone. You're helping someone out. You also have to keep in mind that there are different versions of you. So because people find character work so much easier than just being themselves. I like to tell people to think of the different versions of you. You are going to talk to your spouse or partner differently than you're going to talk to your parents differently than you're going to talk to your kids differently than you're going to talk to your best friend differently than the person behind you at the grocery store. You have all of these different versions of you. Start tapping into that because it is so much more interesting if you do a take where you are talking to your spouse and then you do a take where you are talking to your kid. Those are going to be totally different, right? And it's going to be totally different if you're.
- [27:28]
B
What kind of mood am I in when I'm talking to my kid?
- [27:31]
A
Exactly. Exactly. So there are different versions of you, right?
- [27:35]
B
Yep.
- [27:36]
A
There's like happy, playful dad, but then there is also, like, stern, come on, I'm over it. It's Time to go to bed, dad. So, you know, it's tapping into that kind of stuff. And a lot of people don't think of that when they are trying to just be themselves. But there are a lot of different versions of ourselves, right? And I. We all have our professional phone voice, and we all have. You know, it's like all these different things. Tap into some of that. And I feel like it's when people make those choices that they are so much more interesting to listen to. And it becomes a lot easier for people, too, because it's like, oh, well, I know how to do that because I do that all the time. That's part of who I am. So I think that that makes a big difference. And honestly, personality also comes out through ad libs using lead in lines. And then I always get the question, can I leave a lead in in? Absolutely, you can. You can. I wouldn't do it for every single take, but you can. And there are times when I hear a lead in and then they go right into the script, and I find myself listening for 15 seconds instead of five because they caught my attention. So things like that can kind of make that difference and make me keep listening.
- [28:46]
B
Let's talk alt takes. Although I think maybe some of what you said just now applies to this. But for those alt takes, are you still looking for something that's on spec, but just a different perspective? Are you okay if somebody kind of goes off spec, if they think they've got something, you know, totally different kind of take on it? Like, where do you stand? Because I know this is a question that I think if I asked this question to half a dozen different casting directors, I would definitely, probably get half a dozen different answers. And I mean, I have asked this question, and I'm just curious, where do you stand on these alt takes?
- [29:23]
A
Honestly, my theory is, before you even look at the specs, when you get a script, hop in the booth, do a few takes just solely based on instinct. Don't even look at the specs. Don't let the specs influence you, because as soon as you look at those specs, our brains start to go, okay, I know what they want. They want this, they want that. And it's so hard to break out of that. So if you just do a few takes before you even look at the specs, a lot of times those end up being the strongest takes because they came from the instinct they had the personality. Those tend to be the more authentic takes. And even if they are a little outside the spec, I'm fine with that. Because, again, specs are so all over the place. I mean, we have all seen the specs where it's like, oh, we want it to be really mellow and laid back. Take your time with it. But it has to be upbeat and energetic and have a really, you know, move at a good clip. And it's like, what? Do you realize that those are two exactly opposite things that you can use as your two different takes right there, and you're appealing to two different people. I think what a lot of people don't. A lot of actors. Because you're not seeing these meetings and stuff. I have sat in on hundreds of these meetings where I see the eight creatives, and everybody's in a room together or zoom room, and they are literally throwing out different things. And it's like, so one person is saying that they want the mellow, laid back read, right? And the other person is saying upbeat. Somebody is writing all of these down, and they just get smushed together into one spec with no rhyme or reason.
- [30:57]
B
The number of times that I have been in a directed session where there's, you know, six or seven people in the room, every one of them's in there trying to justify their existence. So every one of them has to come up with a direction for you because they want to have the direct. And so, you know, an hour, an hour and a half later, you wind up sometimes right where you started. Or we've also been in that situation where we've followed the specs to A T, been 100% confident that we nailed it. We're literally waiting to cash the check on this job that we know. Like, this is my audition, and then the spot appears on TV one day, and you're like, what? That's what they went with. That's nothing like what they asked for.
- [31:44]
A
All the time. All the time.
- [31:47]
B
And so this is why we just trust. Trust ourselves to.
- [31:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I submit wild cards because of that, because they don't know. And so if somebody is like. I'm like, oh, this personality and this read is so good, even though they're not exactly the spec, I don't care. I'm submitting them to the client, and they'll book the job.
- [32:09]
B
Talk about these wild cards. You've mentioned a couple of times your willingness to submit a wild card. I would love to hear about a wild card that. That worked. Like, this is so different, and I have to submit this. And I would be very curious if you've ever got a wild card where you're like, oh, my gosh. I can never let anybody hear this ever. What were they thinking? Oh, you have. I could tell.
- [32:34]
A
I've heard everything. Well, I feel like I've heard everything. And then something comes in.
- [32:39]
B
Then one day somebody's gonna submit something. You're gonna be like, wow, Just when I thought I had heard it all.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So as far as a wild card, that didn't work. I have actually had somebody basically rewrite the scripts. And it's like the. The personality, the way they related to it was all so interesting, but they just slaughtered the script. I mean, they. It wasn't just improvising to add something here and there, to naturalize, you know, that kind of thing. They just rewrote the. The whole thing. And I was like, well, that's one way to offend the writer. Had they just done the script, I think it would have been so interesting. And then on the other side, as far as, you know, maybe a successful one, it's. Sometimes it can have to do with. With age range. You know, it's like, oh, they're looking for 20 to 25. And I'm like, oh, but I have somebody who gave an amazing read, and they sound closer to 40. You know, it can be things like that. Sometimes it's just the personality. It's like they. They say in the specs, like, oh, we don't want anyone cartoony. Okay, what does that mean exactly? You know, it's like, I can tell you what I think that means. Everybody can. But there are some people whose natural voices just naturally sound cartoony. So then what, you know, what. What can you say about that? It's like, well, they're not doing a cartoony voice. They are just being themselves. So there are some times where it's these. These bigger personalities kind of these larger than life. Whether they are naturally, you know, just character sounding or if they are putting something on that is just. They've embraced whatever choices they made and they are running with it. And it made me laugh, you know, anything like that, then that is something, you know, I will. I will also submit good ad libs. And buttons can make a big difference too. I've submitted some. I mean, appropriate and inappropriate, and some of the inappropriate ones have booked jobs. But I know the clients, so I know who to send what to.
- [34:49]
B
You just never know.
- [34:51]
A
Yes.
- [34:52]
B
So from your seat as the casting director, what's something that talent think clients care about, but in reality they probably don't care about it at all?
- [35:06]
A
Number one is perfection. Number two is Perfect editing and post production and audio quality. Honestly, I have booked a lot of people with not amazing audio quality. So it's one of those things where everything doesn't have to be perfect. And one of the things that drives me the most crazy is taking out all of your breaths. So a lot of people, especially when you're listening back to your own voice and you hear yourself breathe, it can. It can pull you out, it can distract you. Right? And it's like, oh, I don't want to hear all these breaths. But guess what? We know that you breathe. Spoiler.
- [35:48]
B
Here's the thing that us humans tend to do. It's what's going to separate us from the AIs ultimately. Right? Because the AIs don't have to breathe, so.
- [35:56]
A
Exactly. Exactly. Though rumor has it I haven't. I haven't heard it myself yet, but somebody was telling me that you can put breaths into AI now into AI. Voiceover.
- [36:06]
B
Of course you can.
- [36:07]
A
Right?
- [36:07]
B
Dang it. There goes our edge. I thought that was the one thing we were still going to have going for us.
- [36:12]
A
The personality. It's all about the personality. AI can't make choices.
- [36:18]
B
That's interesting to hear, though, that. I mean, I guess in some senses it doesn't surprise me, right. We want to submit the best. Because I think for a lot of us, it's professionalism. Right. I want to put my best stuff out. I want it to be clean, I want it to sound great, whatever. But if you focus on that more than the read and the connection to the script, that's where you lose.
- [36:41]
A
Yep. Yeah. Sometimes people worry so much about that, and I've had, you know, two things happen. I have had people just busy, out of town, whatever, have to record really quick on their iPhone and still book the job. I have also had people who have done basically all the post production on their audition. They book the job, they get into the session, the client is like, oh, how come they don't sound like that? And it's because of all the posts that they did, you know? Yeah. Y.
- [37:15]
B
Interesting. Yeah. So that's. I mean, that's a case for submit your raw audio. Because speaking of authenticity. Right?
- [37:23]
A
Yes. Yeah. And people are like, wait, raw audio? Oh, no. And they get so freaked out by it. But I promise you, it. It does better.
- [37:35]
B
Can anybody book with you on any given day?
- [37:38]
A
Yeah.
- [37:39]
B
It's not just like an elite group of the top 25 or whatever on any given day out of 600 submissions, it could be anybody from any town, anywhere, USA, whatever. It doesn't matter, as long as you deliver what the client's looking for. Anybody has a shot.
- [38:00]
A
Yep. Yep. And I've booked a lot of people on their first voiceover jobs ever.
- [38:04]
B
I think that's important for people to hear because I do think sometimes, particularly when you get into the. The upper tier level of agent bookings and casting directors and all of that, you know, nationals and all that sort of stuff, it's really easy to think that, you know, it's the Hollywood. Only the Hollywood can book these jobs, or the New York talent or the Chicago talent or whatever. But if we're delivering the goods, anybody on any given day, that's where the home studios really democratized things, right?
- [38:33]
A
Yes. Yes. I mean, the pandemic opened up everything. It was. It was incredible. You know, I mean, it also made it so that we get a thousand auditions sometimes.
- [38:45]
B
Probably feels a little overwhelming some days, but.
- [38:47]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But it's also. It's just. It has opened up so much for so many talented people out there who just didn't want to come to la, you know, didn't want to go to New York. So, yeah, it's been incredible. And, I mean, I work with people not just in the US But Canada and around the world. You know, I work with people from all over.
- [39:09]
B
A lot of VOs have said that 2025 has felt really slow. Consensus has kind of been. It started out really strong, like January, February, Things were kind of cooking, and we're like, all right, here we go. And then things really kind of slowed down. Later spring, early into summer. Now we're all kind of hoping, as we head towards holiday season and all that, that things are gonna maybe hopefully pick up. What are you seeing on your side? Is that the story that you're seeing or are you seeing. No, it's, you know, business as usual, more or less. What are you seeing?
- [39:43]
A
It's interesting because we have been pretty busy. I would say definitely June and July were quieter, you know, not. Not as quiet as we've seen in the past. Sometimes in the summer, you know, it's like. Sometimes in the summer, it's like everything is quiet for a good month or two. This had its moments where I was like, okay, quiet for a couple weeks. Then everything hit all at once, and then I was quiet for a couple weeks. Things like that. It's. I do find that there aren't the. This. The seasons that there used to be in voiceover. It used to be one of those things where it's like we. We knew when it was going to be quiet when the quiet periods were, and now it's just random. You know, it just doesn't seem to have any sort of rhyme or reason. And, you know, part of that is, is everybody working from home. Part of that is there's just, you know, with the. With AI and with all of those kind of changes, economic, political, you know, there's so many. So many things going on that I think have made things kind of all over the place this year. But I do, you know, just in talking to clients and being in those meetings and things like that, I do think that things are going to kind of start evening out now. So, you know, hopefully that means things are. Things are picking up a little bit more.
- [41:14]
B
That's good to know. It has been a year. There's been a lot going on, a lot of external factors, but we won't go there because we're trying to have a happy conversation.
- [41:22]
A
That's why I'm like, yeah, well, this, this, this, and this all have factors. Yep.
- [41:27]
B
Yep. There's. There's definitely been some factors. So you've been doing this since 2009. So you've. You've been around. You've seen trends come and go. You've seen what's hot one day become not the next day.
- [41:42]
A
Yep.
- [41:44]
B
Where are we going as we. I mean, we're coming into the fourth quarter of 2025. It's probably not too soon to be thinking about 2026. I'm guessing you're probably already seeing some stuff. Yeah, it's probably going to roll 2026.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah.
- [41:57]
B
Where. Where are we right now and where are we going other than you? You're not allowed to say genuine and authentic because that's what everybody says. And I want to. I want a better answer than genuine authentic.
- [42:09]
A
I mean, come on, we've been genuine and authentic for 15 years. You know, it's like that.
- [42:13]
B
And you can't say non announcer either, because nobody even knows what that means. So.
- [42:18]
A
Nobody. And the word conversational I am always complaining about because I'm like, it is so overused. And what does that mean?
- [42:26]
B
Yes.
- [42:27]
A
You know, I'm. I'm always of the argument that conversational is no longer just. Just like, talk to a friend and be real. You know, it's. It's become a style of its own.
- [42:37]
B
It's like, how do you know I don't talk to my friends like that?
- [42:39]
A
I mean, really, with all those pauses and that.
- [42:42]
B
How do you know when I'm talking to my kid? That's not exactly how we're having a conversation.
- [42:49]
A
Because I have kids of my own, but yeah, so, so honestly, it's like I feel like there's, there's a couple of things happening. So first of all, I think there is the, the, the flaws, the imperfections and the personality have been probably the biggest trend and shift that we've seen in 2025. So coming from that authentic and genuine conversational, you know, the do nothing read, you know, it's, it's a lot of people, that's how they always directed it is like, oh, do nothing, do less simplified. You know, just talk, just talk. And it's like, okay, but what does that mean? There has to be more behind it now. So that is, that's, that's, that's boring. You're just being conversational, authentic, genuine. It's going to be boring. It's going to be what everybody does. And unless you have some of you in that meaning, your personality and personality is different than just be you be conversational personality is having an opinion, you know, getting that opinion across, having a reason for talking about what you're talking about, having some passion behind it. You know, things like that. And the, the imperfections are huge. Where it's just, you don't have to speak perfectly perfect all the time. You know, it's like we want to hear that you are human. And I think the biggest thing with, with that in 2025 has been because of the, the AI battle.
- [44:20]
B
Yeah.
- [44:20]
A
You know, so it's like, okay, any, we can get a computer if we want this perfect polished read, right?
- [44:26]
B
Yep.
- [44:26]
A
But in order to hear the humanness and hear the flaws and that, that personality, we have to have a person. So that has been the biggest thing. The fun part has been I have actually been seeing more and more a range of things in terms of going back to some of the announcer reads.
- [44:49]
B
That's what I've been waiting for for a decade.
- [44:51]
A
Exciting. It's so fun, you know, and it's like for a while during, during the, the conversational era we can call has been one of those things where the announcers were always basically a parody or they had to be a sportscaster or they had, you know, like they were always very specific. And now it's like we are finding that they want these genuine more announcer Y sounds which has been, which has been fun. And it sounds like in talks of campaigns that'll be happening quarter one of 2026, some of that's going to keep going in, in that direction. So that's it's fun, it's interesting. You know, it's something different. So I'm hoping that also means that we actually see a variety of things then that make it to air. Because as we all know, even with the conversational reads in specs, it all sounds the same.
- [45:50]
B
That's the. I mean, that's the thing that gets me, is when I see all these auditions and coming from multiple sources, auditions coming from multiple sources, and I feel like if I got 25 auditions in a day, 21 of them have almost identical specs. And I'm like, but I know you don't all want 21 identical sounding commercials. And that's where it gets really frustrating. But that's where, you know, like you said, just let your personality shine through. Just. Just be you. So let's go. Let's take this a step further then you. You've been through all the trends, but you've also lived through the recessions, tech disruptions. AI is now a factor. So in almost two decades of doing this, what's one thing, if there is one thing, what's one thing in the industry that stayed exactly the same about great talent?
- [46:51]
A
Honestly, it's the people. It has always been about the person behind the Voice. It has. As a casting director, especially in more recent years when there is online casting there, you know, there's so many other ways that these ad agencies and producers can find voices, but they still come to me to cast, you know, and part of that is the relationships that I build with people. Part of that is knowing people. You know, it's like as. As a whole, the voiceover community is very supportive. It's a very close community. It's, you know, it's one of those where it's kind of. You're in a group, you mention somebody's name and everybody knows who that is or, you know, things like that. And it's. It really is about the people. There are so many talented people that I don't need to work with the difficult ones. It's like, be difficult in a session. I don't have to work with you. You don't have any talent that I can't find somewhere else with somebody who is pleasant to work with.
- [47:56]
B
I think about the Joe Ciprianos and the Randy Thomases, and you don't, like, you just. You don't hear about a career that spans what, three, four decades or whatever. And just as legitimate, just as on point, just as bookable, just as sought after now as they were then.
- [48:19]
A
Yep.
- [48:20]
B
And they're good People.
- [48:22]
A
Yep.
- [48:22]
B
That's the thing, eh?
- [48:24]
A
Yep. That. That. It's huge. It's. You have to be. The entire industry is collaboration. It's like, I can't do my job without actors. We all have to work together. And if you're not easy to work with and fun to work with, and that's where some of that personality comes in. I'll be honest, when I'm listening to an audition, those first three to five seconds can tell me if you love what you do and would be fun to work with. They can also tell me that you are on your 10th audition and you are over it. I can hear that in auditions. And I'm like, oh, okay, they've had a day.
- [49:04]
B
You know, it's like submitted one or two of those.
- [49:06]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [49:07]
B
Admitting to anything.
- [49:08]
A
But you're not alone if you have.
- [49:12]
B
Oh, yeah. You know, I blame four kids and.
- [49:15]
A
Stress, but that'll do it. Perfect excuse.
- [49:21]
B
I think one of the risks of a successful talent who has achieved the mountaintop, right, consistently booking, getting the Nationals, agent jobs, et cetera, is complacency. I'm there, I'm doing it now, so I will always do it now, which isn't always the case. I'm curious what your thoughts are for. How often should somebody be sitting down with a coach and maybe reviewing auditions or making sure this read is still on point? Because what was making you money last year may not make you money this year, or what's making you money this year may not make you money next year or whatever. What's your advice on that? Because I think sometimes it's really easy. Sometimes we go extremes. Right. Sometimes we coach too much and then fill our heads with more information than we could possibly process. And then we have no idea where to go in the booth.
- [50:21]
A
Yes.
- [50:22]
B
But then it's also just as easy to get really comfortable and complacent because you're booking and then stop getting any new information at all, which is also a problem.
- [50:31]
A
Yep. Yeah. No, I think. I think everybody has to do regular check ins. You know, it's. Trends are always changing. Things. Things are always shifting, you know, and. And people change. And I will be honest, the. One of the biggest things that I see start to happen is people. People start to phone it in, you know, especially if you're booking and you're like, all right, I'm good to go then. Then you just start to phone it in. You start to do what you always do. You go into default mode, and a couple things happen. One, you don't keep up on the trends. So you're not shifting with things that are shifting in the industry. And you know, it's. And two, you start to lose the passion for it too. You know, sometimes I've, I've worked with people where it's like bringing it back to the basics sometimes just relights that fire, you know, gives that, gives that passion back. Sometimes that's all you need because again, we can hear that in your audition. We can hear if, if you care about what you're doing and love what you're doing, or if you're just doing another audition, cranking them out, you know, it's. And, and that happens. We all get to that, that point, you know, but yeah, we can hear that. I, I think people should do at least an annual check in at the very least, because things do change year to year, you know, probably more than that, honestly. Even if it's just getting feedback on some auditions, you know, and that can, that can come from the casting director who is casting it, that can come from your agents, but, you know, you have to be getting some sort of feedback and staying on top of things.
- [52:09]
B
I think the problem is that we need more clearly defined trends because we've been living in the genuine, authentic, conversational, non announcer trend for a decade now. And so it's really easy to think, well, I got, I nailed that trend. But there was the, There was the 2018 version of genuine, authentic, conversational, non announcer. Then there was the 2020 and the 2021. And we just need to find, we need to figure out a way to more clearly define those trends so that it's easier for us to decide, oh, I must not be on anymore. We, we need to add another word into the mix or something or, you know, put it, put a stamp on it. This is the end of this version. This is conversational, genuine, authentic, not announcer Version 2.0, and we're getting ready to go into version 3.0.
- [52:57]
A
Yep.
- [52:58]
B
Maybe that's what we need.
- [52:59]
A
Personality. That's. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. And you know, it's like going back to training and stuff. It's like any profession. Do you think doctors just get their degree and they're 30 years into their career and they're not learning anything new? I sure hope they are. Right. It's, it's the same sort of thing. You have to, you have to stay up on top of it. And a coach can probably, probably, hopefully shed some light on it for you because, yeah, the word conversational is just. We're all done with it. We're done.
- [53:31]
B
I've talked to a couple of casting directors now who reiterate the fact that you are cheerleaders, not gatekeepers. And I think it's really important that we understand that, that, yes, you have access, you hold the access to the jobs, but at the end of the day, you're rooting for us to succeed, because if we succeed, you succeed. And so you are literally championing us. And so, with that in mind, I want you to think about the talent who is close. You've heard their auditions before, maybe you really want to be able to include them, but they're, they're, you know, this close, but they're just not quite there. But you're genuinely rooting for them to succeed. What is a piece of advice that you would give them? It could potentially help them finally cross the goal line.
- [54:23]
A
So, a couple of things. One is, you know, if. If you. If you can get the information. And again, this is. This is a tricky thing, but if there. If you can get the information of, are you being shortlisted or. You know, it's like, we do keep people in mind specifically based on auditions. I have had clients write things for particular voices that they've heard me submit multiple times because they're like, oh, I love their performance every time, but they don't seem to get the final spot, you know, and so it's like they've written things specifically for people because of that very reason. So, you know, a couple of things. One, make sure you're getting the feedback. You have to get the feedback, whether that's coaching, training or just having somebody listen to your audition and give you some feedback on it. You have to get the feedback. You have to just honestly just keep. Keep at it. Like, that's. That's really the biggest thing for me is, like, I have seen so many people, it's like they auditioned for two years and nothing happens. Nothing happens, nothing happens. And then all of a sudden, bam, their job comes along and then that's when things start to snowball. So, and the correlation that I see with that is the confidence. As soon as you book, you have the confidence, the confidence shows in your auditions, you book more.
- [55:47]
B
Yep, I did it. Once again.
- [55:49]
A
That confidence before you're booking, that's usually going to come from positive feedback that you're getting because you're doing the work, you're putting in the work to have solid auditions and you're getting that positive feedback, even if you're not quite booking yet. So it's kind of that confidence and building that confidence and keeping that confidence even before it comes from the bookings.
- [56:14]
B
Tell me about Voice Caster Lab.
- [56:17]
A
Voice Caster Lab is our newer digital training platform. So we have some on demand classes there. A few things. There's been seminars that I have run, Dema sessions to find the casting process, a marketing and agent seminar. My signature course on there is the finding your authentic voice. And that just goes through all the different ways that you can tap into conversational and being you. I also have segmented out of that as a. As a separate thing in case people don't want the whole course just finding you in take two, which is essentially a very similar thing with finding different takes, finding those different versions of you, you know, that. That sort of thing. Voice Caster Lab is also the platform for our voice caster Insiders membership. It's $30 a month, 300 for the year, and I am in there posting daily. So we do a bunch of different things. We do a monthly challenge. So right now we have a performance bingo card going on. So trying different takes with auditions and encouraging people to kind of break out of the everyday conversational, do nothing, read. Right. And then we do weekly workouts for our members. We do the daily things are like, you know, Monday, motivation, take action. Tuesday, Wednesday, wisdom. You know, they all have a. They all have a theme. So I'm in there posting every day. We offer feedback on auditions, websites, demos, all of that. And all of that's included in the membership.
- [57:54]
B
It's kind of funny now that every time we say conversational in the course of this interview, we have to stop and laugh because we realize how ridiculous and overused it's become. But it's still the thing that everybody uses. It's still the direction that everybody says.
- [58:07]
A
What it means anymore. Nobody knows what it means.
- [58:10]
B
So you do offer a lot of different services, Voice Caster Lab being one of them. Coaching, demo, production, and all those different things. So if somebody wants to learn more or get connected, if they're interested in talking with you about coaching or learning more about the Voicecaster Lab, where do we go?
- [58:26]
A
Yep, voicecaster.com has everything. And voicecasterlab.com is the other site, but that's also linked to voicecaster.com so if you go to voicecaster.com, click on actor services and you will see everything.
- [58:41]
B
Okay. We'll make sure to put that in the show notes so that it's really easy to find. One final question.
- [58:46]
A
Yeah.
- [58:47]
B
You can snap your fingers and have every voice actor who is on your casting roster instantly master one skill. What would it be and why?
- [59:01]
A
Oh, gosh, I have like a list of 10 going through my head right now. If I had to choose one, it would just be to be unapologetically themselves. Because I think it is the quirks and the fun that I have with people in conversations that is so much more interesting than anything else.
- [59:25]
B
I feel like that comes back to something you said earlier, which was really, it all ties back to confidence. Right? It's just confidence in you being you, confidence in what you bring to the mic, what you bring to the reader, confidence in the training and the coaching that you've taken, confidence in the demos that you have to put forward. And it all comes back to that confidence.
- [59:44]
A
Call it authentically unfiltered.
- [59:47]
B
Yeah, it's.
- [59:48]
A
I. I want you to be authentically unfiltered.
- [59:52]
B
Right on. Kelly, this has been fantastic and I really do genuinely appreciate you taking the time to just lay it out there for us. I don't. You know, I feel like you. You held nothing back here. Kind of feels like you just gave us a one hour masterclass. Deep dive into the insights of the casting director, which I understand makes your life easier, right? Because if we do better, you do better.
- [60:16]
A
Hey, I am. It's a collaboration. The more information I can share, the better.
- [60:23]
B
Well, thank you for coming on and sharing. I genuinely do appreciate it. This has been amazing.
- [60:28]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. The everyday Veopreneur podcast available everywhere. Find podcasts are given away for free mostly.
- [60:37]
B
We think you have a great website. Right? Well, make sure you host it at some place that doesn't suck. Hey, it's Brad Newman, fellow VO pro for 28 years and owner of upper levelhosting.com. people ask, why us? And that's simple. We make it easy, respect your time, save you money, and just make all the magic happen. You don't need to know all the tech stuff. When it comes to hosting your website, we got you. Ask around. Tens of thousands of client interactions later and six years of amazing customer service and not a single negative complaint ever. Upper level hosting.com and scene.
- [61:10]
A
And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for hanging out. Want more Veopreneur goodness? Jump online@veopreneur.com.