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My VO Business Is Down 30%... What Should I Do? with James Brown
00:33:58
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- [00:00]
A
Have you got a voiceover question that you would love to be able to ask me directly? Well, here's your chance. The Everyday Veopreneur summer series is all about your questions. I'm giving Everyday veopreneurs like you the opportunity to come on the show, ask me a question live and get it answered. If you would like to submit a question for consideration, head to veopreneur.com Summerseries veopreneur.com Summer Summer Series I hope you enjoy the summer series episodes. It's the summer series on the Everyday Veopreneur podcast where I am giving voice actors an opportunity to come on the show and ask one of their most pressing business and marketing questions. And hopefully I can offer some valuable insight, advice, tips, tricks, whatever that may help them on the way. So welcome to the show, James Brown. What's your question?
- [00:48]
B
Thanks for having me, Mark. Basically it's a bit of a slight negative one, but so I think that this is one of the worst periods for VEO in years. Personally, my business is about 30% down from this time last year, but I'm marketing more than ever and I don't know a single VO that isn't really worried right now. So what areas do you think we should be focusing on to come out of the other side intact here?
- [01:17]
A
This is a question that hits hard just because I've experienced it as well. My elearning business got wiped out in 2025. I mean, eLearning was my main genre of voiceover that I was doing and it got completely annihilated. And I've talked about that openly. I've shared the fact that it was AI and that I got it wrong too, because I genuinely thought that elearning in particular higher end elearning I thought was going to be safer for longer. I thought that companies were going to want to have good quality narration on their training videos and things of that nature just to keep audiences engaged. And what I've come to realize is that they don't care. And I had the opportunity to have conversations, direct conversations with several of my elearning clients. And keep in mind, some of these clients were like twenty plus thousand dollar a year clients that I've been working with for a decade and every one of them said the exact same thing. They said we hate it, we hate using it, we hate working with it, we hate the way it sounds, but our competitors are using it. And so financially we have to use it to stay competitive is basically what it came down to. And so it's like you know you didn't do anything wrong. It's, you know, we would still much rather prefer to work with you, but this is just the reality of what is going on. And so that was a huge, huge hit to my, my voiceover business last year. And then the other thing was, without trying to turn this into a political discussion, was there was, there was some trade stuff going on that, that some people might be aware of.
- [03:03]
B
Yes, indeed.
- [03:04]
A
Yeah.
- [03:05]
B
And so Americans, of course.
- [03:07]
A
Yeah. The challenge there was, again, I'm in Canada. A lot of my clients were based in the US And I had conversations with many of them as well, who said, look, we love you. It has nothing to do with you. We would love to keep working with you, but we're just not sure what is going on right now. And they're worried about implications from a tax standpoint, and they're worried about pushback for Buy American and all of that sort of stuff. And so that was, it was like two, two different things, two completely different things. AI and trade, but both hitting at the exact same time. And because so much of my business was elearning and then so much of my business was US Clients, I mean, I got my butt kicked hard last year, and I have not shied away from that fact because I think that I'm not one of these people that wants to walk around just saying everything's going to be okay and, you know, AI is just a fad or, you know, it's, it's not. Nobody's really using it, or, you know, it's only on the low end or blah, blah, blah. I just don't. That's not been my experience. That, that has not been my experience. And so I understand what it's like. So I, I can talk about specifically some of the things that I have done to try to pivot, if that's, if that's what you're interested in hearing. But I, I just want you to know that, I mean, I, I fully relate with what you're talking about. Right. Of all these different factors that seem to be coming into play, and that doesn't even take into account what's going on with Iran and with economic concerns as far as inflation and people being afraid to spend money and all of that. I mean, there's. What a time to be a voice actor, James.
- [04:57]
B
I know, right? It's frightening because ideally, and by all measurable statistics, we, we're getting better at what we do. Still in business, still doing this thing after, after several years, it's, it's going pretty well, in terms of, you know, the feedback that you get. But yet you, you mentioned that the big clients disappearing. I had my, my best client, which was also a five figure client, just had, which was corporate from last year, basically a European client. And I haven't had a single job from them this year and they've been lovely. But I'm getting much, much similar feedback to you is that it's absolutely nothing to do with you. The market has, has simply shifted and we, we have to follow that to, to remain competitive. So it's.
- [05:44]
A
So they're shifting to AI.
- [05:46]
B
They didn't specifically say. But that is what I, that's what I got the, the impression of. Yeah, they said that, you know, if factors change and the market improves, we'll, we'll come back. They did say that. But you know, well, that could also,
- [06:02]
A
that could legitimately be economic because I mean, there has definitely been some of that as well. There are economic factors that are going on right now. You know, in the United States, everybody talks about the stock market and the S and P's up, you know, whatever double digit percentages this year. That is the, the S and P is not the economy. It's those, they're two, two different things right now. And there are businesses that are just not spending money. I think there are businesses that are sitting on the sidelines while they try to figure out this stuff. I mean, there was a lot of confusion around tariffs and then, and then that goes away. You know, Supreme Court rules that you can't be charging tariffs and so now they're trying to figure that out. There's what's going on with oil, what's going on with inflation. Are we going to be able to get our stuff? Are we going to war? Like, you know, there's so many, so many different factors that are going on right now. The number one thing that I am doing first and foremost to keep my sanity is recognizing that I just, I can only focus on the things that I can control. Right at the end of the day, I can't control AI. I can't control whether customers are going to use AI or not. I can't control Canada US Relations at this point, unfortunately. Although I wish I could get a seat at the table to have, you know, to be a part of that conversation because I feel like I've got some, you know, I could think I might have some meaningful things to add there, but my wife says I'm not allowed to run for any sort of political office. So I guess I'm not going to be doing that, but I can't control that. I can't control economic factors, right? So what specifically can I control? And so the things that I have been looking at is I can control, first and foremost, I can control my product, right? How good am I? Am I. Am I where I need to be to be competitive in 2026? That's one of the things that I can control. I can control the quality of my product, not just from a delivery and acting standpoint, but from audio perspective as well. And so, you know, get somebody to listen to my booth. Is my. Is my sound good? Is anything gone awry that I'm not aware of or my auditions up to par with what everybody else has got going on right now? I can control my marketing as far as my collateral. What do I have to put out there, the content that I've created, the. The. The quality of the emails and sequences that I'm writing, the demos that I have to present, you know, all of those factors. And then I can control specifically the actual amount of marketing. Am I getting myself in front of enough people every day to swing the odds in my favor ultimately? And so those are some of the things that I've been looking at. And so I literally, the second half of last year, I talked about this with a couple of. Couple of friends and colleagues that I felt like I was starting my business over again. Like, I genuinely felt like I was coming into voiceover from the very beginning again because my business had got beaten down so hard because of these factors that were outside of my control with AI and cross border and all of that sort of stuff that I was like, okay, so I'm kind of. Kind of starting over at the beginning again. And I even sat down with my wife and I said, look, I got to do some things here. And, you know, I got to see if I can get this thing restarted in a slightly different direction. And so the very first thing that I did was I started coaching again. It had been, you know, it had been a minute since I had done some, worked with a really good coach for a long term, right? Not just a one off here and there or a workshop here or there or whatever, but actually, you know, sitting down with the coach and doing some really good sessions and working over, over a period of time. And so that was the very first thing that I did, which led to then new commercial demo. Want to be able to present the best possible representation of where I'm at today. Commercial demo had gotten older, so the commercial demo just came out about a Month ago. The other thing I did was corporate demo and I'll tell you the reason. So did the corporate demo. Corporate demo just came out like literally like three days ago. So I haven't even had a chance to do anything with that yet. But why those two demos? Let's talk about that for a minute. I still think commercial is one of the safest genres. I genuinely think that it is. It is one of the safest genres. Maybe lower end commercial, maybe. I don't know they're going to start using AI. But I definitely think that on a higher end, on a regional, on a national scale, I think that we have seen. There are. There's been several stories of brands who have used AI for their commercials and actually caught a lot of flack and caught a lot of. There's been a lot of backlash. Right. And so that is making brands say, well maybe, maybe let's not do that. So commercial still feels like a relatively safe genre and admittedly that's not a genre that I've put a lot of effort into in the past and I've talked about that because I've primarily been a non broadcast guy. So that was why the decision to do commercial. Let's get some coaching. Let's get the best possible commercial demo that I can get and then let's start working the agent route, see if I can pick up a few new agents, start getting access to more commercials so that we are at the execution phase of that plan now. Coaching is done, demo is done. I'm ready to start putting it out there, ready to start putting myself in front of agents. The other demo that I did was a corporate demo. And the reason why I decided to do the corporate demo was I had signed up for voice 1, 2, 3 last fall, hadn't been on the site and I think it was like almost 16 years or something like that since I had had an active, active profile on the site. But I signed up just to see what was going on. I wanted to be able to talk about Voice123 more intelligently. I get asked so many questions, I was curious. My coach, Brad Hyland was encouraging me, just get on there just so you can audition, so you've got access to auditions and what I was seeing on Voice123 and obviously your experience varies depending on what paid membership you're at and all of that sort of stuff. But what I was seeing was 90% of the auditions that were coming my way, maybe, maybe 80% of the auditions that were coming my way were corporate they were corporate narrations, brand films, image films, you know, product films, like all of that sort of stuff. So I'm like, okay, if there. This is obviously still very much an active genre. So that was why I made the decision. I worked with the demo dream team and I made the decision to do the corporate demo because it felt like, okay, that's a genre that still, for now makes sense. There's still obviously a lot of work that is happening in that place. So my plan for this year now with those two demos that have just come out is to really double down in those two spaces. And I'm not. I mean, my elearning demo is still there. I still have one or two eLearning clients that are active, but I'm not currently actively marketing myself in the elearning genre anymore. The other thing that I'm doing is, is I am going to focus on Canada, which is something that I have typically not done in the past. The voiceover market is not as big here. It's the rates are not typically as good here. So I've always tended to focus more on the US market. Obviously with everything that is going on right now, again, coming back to what can I control? I can't control Canada U.S. relations, I can't control trade wars, but I can control where I market based on what makes the most sense in the environment that we're in right now. And what makes the most sense for me right now in the environment that we're in is double down on Canada. So I am getting ready to do a big push because my corporate demo has landed. So I've got those two demos that I'm about to work with. So I am getting ready and I've been building a lead list for probably two months now. I'm getting ready to do a very large push marketing push into those two genres. Are you looking to register a new domain to set up your voiceover website on or are you looking for a reliable place where you can host your voiceover website? Itrust upperlevelhosting.com it's where I get my domains, it's where I get my hosting. Because it works. Check it out for yourself and get signed up at upper level hosting dot com. Now back to our show. I know you said that you've been doing marketing. You don't feel like you're getting the responses that you've been looking for. I definitely think that how we market matters more now than it ever has in order to be able to stand out in the inbox and so I am definitely going to be doubling down on a personalized approach. I'm going to be reevaluating some of my sequences. I want to continue to have a level of automation. I think that's necessary. But I want to refine that even further. I want to figure out how can I find niches within the niche so that maybe instead of just a broad spectrum follow up sequence to video producers, I can narrow that down. This is specifically to people who are doing TV commercials. This is specifically for digital advertising. This is a sequence specifically for brand videos and corporate films and stuff like that. And so just trying to niche down so that I can, no matter what, I'm trying to figure out how I can make some of that communication even more personalized. Does that make sense?
- [15:04]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [15:05]
A
I think that's going to matter too. But I think the biggest thing for me, I think is the demos. I thought I had pretty good demos. I mean, I've always done very well in my business, right. I thought I had pretty good demos. Granted, a couple of those demos were a little bit older, particularly with my corporate demo. When I first got my corporate demo, it came on the weekend and I listened to it the first time and I literally sat there and I was like, who is that guy? Like night and day difference from my previous corporate demo. So I feel so much more confident now putting myself out there because I really believe, like, okay, I thought my. Thought my other demos were all right. No, my other demos were trash compared to what I'm about to put out now. So again, it's just, it's focusing on the things that I can control, the quality of the product that I am able to put out there. And then the other thing, and I've talked about this a little bit. I talked about this in a podcast with. I had Tim Heller on the show earlier this year and I booked my first audiobook last week.
- [16:14]
B
So I'm interesting. Yes, yes.
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A
So I am doing.
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B
Going this way.
- [16:18]
A
Yeah. So I. That was a genre that for 20 years, years I've swore that I would never do. When the opportunity presented itself with Tim, non broadcast and business books and I was like, okay, well if ever I was going to do audiobooks, non broadcast and business books. And so I booked my first audiobook. I think I've auditioned in total. I think I had auditioned for like 16 or something before. I. With no clue what I was doing before I booked my first audiobook. That is a genre that I would have never previously thought about. But I'm looking at what is Going on the reality of what is happening in the marketplace right now. And I'm trying to figure out where the opportunity is going to be there. The other thing that I am hearing consistently, I don't personally listen to audiobooks, but there is so much pushback on AI Audiobooks.
- [17:09]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [17:11]
A
It's one thing to listen to a 30 second commercial or maybe a two minute brand film or a 90 second explainer or something like that. A four hour audiobook, a five hour audiobook, a six hour audiobook. That's a totally different kind of commitment that nobody wants to listen to on
- [17:29]
B
AI No, I think a fiction, it's even, particularly, even more a non starter because obviously you can't do decent characterization or world building or anything like that with AI. I suppose you might get away with it for a short nonfiction piece, but really short. And even then.
- [17:48]
A
It's even then. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that's just me sitting down objectively and trying to look at where is the market going? Where do I think the opportunities are still going to exist? Now am I fully existential crisis mode over AI? No, not, not at this point. Do I think that there's still an element of its shiny new object. Right. It's new. It's here. We've got to try it. If you're not a company that's talking about AI in your quarterly earnings reports or you're not talking, you're not using AI or whatever, you're going to get left behind. And there's this whole narrative around, around that. Right. And so I think there are a lot of companies that are trying it, that are using it, that are trying to justify their use of it. Do I think that the pendulum has swung maybe too far in that direction and that maybe there will be a little bit of a correction? I think maybe, maybe. And maybe that's just me trying to be optimistic. I don't know. I'm not like there's never going to be an impact, but I'm also not like this is the end of everything. Go find your second career. That being said, I do think that there is going to be a thinning out in the industry and I think. When did you start?
- [19:16]
B
I went full time in the. In 2022.
- [19:21]
A
2022. Okay. So you came in on the tail end of the COVID boom.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So 2020, 2021. For me, from a coaching standpoint, I had never been busier from a coaching standpoint and I never intended for that, but it was just, it was a product of there was a million new people starting in the industry and they were looking for advice on how to get their voiceover businesses going. And it caused my coaching business to explode. I bet you 60% of those people are no longer in the industry because it wasn't as easy as they thought they tried to do, you know, take shortcuts to get established and couldn't get established. Some of them maybe got called back to work or, you know, like after the lockdowns and all of that sort of stuff. And so there was a thinning out and the people who remained were, you know, people who were investing in their careers, constantly improving, always working on their craft, honing their acting, great demos, great audio. You know, all those things that we always talk about. I think there's going to be an element of that again, I think that if you're trying to do this on the cheap, if you're trying to, you know, self produce your demos or all of that sort of stuff, I just think that the, I don't know that there's going to be enough opportunity for everyone to play in that case. And so I think the ones who are going to book are going to be the ones who are playing game at a, at a slightly higher level. And so my whole thing for the last, well, I guess probably since about last fall, since the end of the summer, last fall, 2025 has just been, it's time to level up again. It's time for me to level up again and do all of those things now at the end of the year if it doesn't work and I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not good enough to make it, I don't know. Right? We'll see. Ask me in six months from now, right? But I'm legitimately, it's like, okay, my business got crushed. I lost 60 plus thousand dollars in income last year from clients who went away. And so at that point it's like I got two choices. Either I go get another job somewhere or I double down and figure out where the, where the market's moving and try to move with it. And so that's what I'm doing at this point is doubling down, figuring out where the market's moving and trying to
- [21:32]
B
move with completely makes sense. It's the, the bits which require still the element of soul, isn't it, I think, which require the acting ability, which require the commercials, which, which, when they, when they really want you to feel something so that you buy or that you take the action that they want you to do, that's where, you know, the, the voice actor hopefully still stands out. And of course they also, if you land one and you land a good one, then they pay very, very well.
- [22:03]
A
Yep.
- [22:04]
B
So getting access to those, or getting access to those opportunities is also will be at a premium. One other thing that I don't know rings true with you as well, is that I've noticed booking on P2PS also becoming significantly harder. I'm wondering if there again, has just been a massive influx of people going on there or. Or what really. But like, you know, I've noticed my. My booking rates, always steady, always for. Again, for four years about this year, has dropped on one particular site from 1 in 30 to 1 in 80.
- [22:44]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I'm like, but why? So.
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A
So there's two things that I would be thinking about there because I feel that pain as well. I've got four campaigns running with my agent right now, which is. I don't think I've had four campaigns with my agent over the last four years combined. And so to have four campaigns running with my agent in the last, like, I've booked all of those in the last couple of months. It's like, what the heck, right? Evidence that what I'm doing is paying off. Right. The coaching is paying off, the demo is paying off, etc. On the flip side of that, I feel like I can't book a job on voice 1, 2, 3 to save my life and I'm like, wait a minute. So I'm good enough to book national campaigns through my agent, but I'm not booking $300, you know, corporate videos on Voice123 and what is going on there?
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B
So I'm not getting shortlisted and things.
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A
Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things that I would be looking at there and speaking from experience, because these are the things that I am looking at as well. First and foremost is just looking at, strictly Speaking, with voice 1, 2, 3, the amount of crap and hoops that you have to jump through on your profile to be getting the matches to rank, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, is insane. I was never going to do it, which is why I got somebody else to do it for me, because there was no chance that I was sitting down and doing all of that work. So, again, focusing on what's inside of your control, what one, making sure that your profile is fully optimized, that you've got as many possible samples as you can, that you're continuously adding new samples wherever possible, that you're monitoring you know, where are you ranking? Like, I know that I'm ranking on page one for multiple dozens of search terms now, which I would have never been able to do. But Sam, who's doing my profile for me, has been able to do that for me. So focusing on what you can control, that's inside of my control, let me focus on that. Trying to be really choosy about the auditions, you know, although sometimes it doesn't really feel like that matters. I shared an experience in the Vopeneur Group the other day where I had a conversation with somebody who had booked a job on Voice 1 2, 3, but they didn't book me through Voice 12 3, so I didn't actually get credit for the booking. So I actually get a negative strike, really, on my profile, even though I booked the job, but because I didn't get credit for booking the job. So I was having a conversation with the client about this and they're somebody that uses voice 123 a ton. I mean, I can look at their profile and see all the castings that they've done and all the auditions that they listen to and everything. They had zero idea about the algorithm, zero idea that likes mattered, zero idea that booking on the platform mattered. Like, they just didn't know. They had no Clue. So if Voice123 is not educating them on that, right, then we're already at a disadvantage as far as that goes. So there's not much I can do on that front other than every once in a while when I get one of those bookings or have that, you know, get a chance to have a direct conversation with a client, just kind of talking them through some of that, maybe encourage them, go back and give me a like or, you know, hire me through the platform or whatever. But I'll tell you the other thing that I'm. I'm going to be doing is I'm going to be working with a coach to go through some of my auditions. Because here's what's happening now. I'm submitting. I've got on the platform since October. Since I've been on the site in October, I vary between a 4 to 1 and a 5 to 1 audition to like ratio, which I think that's pretty good. I thought that was pretty good. And between probably around an 18 to 1, 20 to 1 audition to booking ratio. But I'm. I cannot get out of the 40th percentile. Cannot get out of the 40th. Nothing I do gets me out of the 40th percentile. And so now when I'm auditioning, because I'm not getting. I don't know, I, I don't know how many likes you need to get to get into the upper tiers, but I'm not getting up in. I'm not getting as many likes as apparently I need. That starts to mess with my head, right? I start to get inside of my head when I, you know, submit an audition. I'm like, nailed that audition. Didn't get the, like, now I'm questioning, did I actually nail that audition? Whatever. So I'm going to actually work with a coach to go through a bunch of the auditions that I've submitted in the last couple of months and have them say, yeah, you're. You're where you need to be, or here's what you could have done differently, here's what you could have done better, right? So again, focusing on what I can control, ultimately, I can't control whether or not somebody gives me the like or, or whether or not they understand how, how that system works, but I can control assessing my auditions and making sure. Right?
- [27:36]
B
For sure.
- [27:37]
A
There are things that I, I have been in the industry long enough to know, and this is something I, When I did my session at Mavo last year, I talked about this. I've been in the industry long enough to know what it's like to have a money ready and what it's like to lose it. And so you get, you, you get a money read. I call it the money read, but you get a money read that just books and books and books and books and books and books. And then all of a sudden you're not booking anymore. And it's because that read that was really popular for that amount of time. Six months, a year, three years, whatever it was, the industry has shifted away from that. And so then you get comfortable and you've settled into that routine of that money read. But then you realize, I'm not booking anymore. Why am I not booking anymore? Well, it's because your money reads, not. Your money read is not the money read, right? So now I've got to sit down, I got to figure out, okay, well, what's the new money read? And can I figure out what the new money read is and start booking again? And those trends change, sometimes very quickly, sometimes very slowly, depending on the genre that you're working in. I think it's changed. I think commercial has changed a lot. And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm starting to book in commercial now. Where I've, I've struggled in the past is I've finally figured out where the spot is for me and, you know, I will ride that as long as I can until one day casting directors decide they're looking for something completely different and then I've got to reevaluate all over again. And so one of the things that I would encourage you with, if you haven't done it for a while, is have you had somebody and objective third party listen to what you're submitting and tell you straight up, yeah, you're on point, keep doing what you're doing. Or, you know what, here's where I think there's room for improvement. Because you used to be 1 in 20, 1 in 30, right? Now you're. Now you're 1 in 80. It's possible that that's just a competition thing, but it's also possible that what was working when you were 30 to 1 is not what's working now, and that's why you've gone 80 to 1.
- [29:43]
B
Absolutely, yeah. I think that that's, that's a very fair point. And it is very. That, you know, trends do shift and what people want to listen to absolutely shifts. And over here in the uk that may well, that, that's gone from things like a lot of people, for instance, sounding like classic BBC style voice to much more regional accented style work. I get booked for a West country work, which is where I'm from in the uk, and that's quite unusual for me because I'm naturally an RP speaker. But you find yourself booking in a regional accent, so you have to absolutely be aware of the trends of that. And yes, it's very, very possible that just better analysis of what is working by people who aren't booking. And then you tap into that, don't
- [30:28]
A
you try to do that and that's it. And I think one of the things that I've had the good fortune of through this podcast is being able to sit down and have conversations with a lot of really top talent. Talent who have been playing at a high level for long periods of time, like decades, not, not just, you know, a couple years, but like decades or more. And I've said this before, the one thing that is consistent across the board is those people never stop coaching, they never stop training. Right. And I'm talking like Joe Cipriano still sits down with coaches every once in a while. Like, I, you know, I. The people that I'm having the conversations with are the ones who are showing up for the Workshops, they're booking private coaching sessions. Like, they're constantly just staying on top of what is going on, what is booking now, what are casting directors looking for, what are agents looking for? You know, all of that sort of stuff. And so any opportunity, I think that you have to. To be able to participate in that type of activity. I think that's another thing where, look, there's. There's no shortage of places where you can spend money in this industry. Right. And. And it gets very expensive after a while. But one of the questions that I continually have to ask myself, and specifically I've been asking myself in the last six or eight months is just, well, okay, but where am I spending money that's going to make it back the fastest? And where I'm spending money that's going to make it back the fastest right now is working with great coaches, it's working with great demo producers, it's doing those things that are going to present me as a voice actor in the best possible light. And so that's why those are some of the things that I've been doing to try and pivot and see if I can get my business back again.
- [32:11]
B
Yeah, that makes excellent sense. Thanks, Mom.
- [32:15]
A
All right, man. I hope that's been helpful.
- [32:17]
B
Absolutely. Thank you very much.
- [32:19]
A
Seasons are shifting. That is where seasons have shifted. Seasons have changed significantly. You know, now we just wait and see how long it takes to swing back a little bit. You know, is it going to swing back a little bit? And. And I'm. Like I said, I'm not. I'm not fully defeatist and doomer yet, but I do think that there's going to be a reality check for a significant portion of the industry, and they're going to have to ask themselves. And it's the question that I've literally, I've had to ask myself is, are you willing to do what it takes to level up, or are you going to just stay where you're at right now and watch your business continue to run away from you? And I, I got a wife and four kids and a mortgage. I'm not. I'm not going to let my business run away from me. Like, I can't. I can't let my. My business run away from me. Right. And so. And it's been encouraging because I've already seen some of those decisions start to pay off.
- [33:13]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. When you get the roi, that's what we all. That's what we all want.
- [33:18]
A
Yep. All right, man. Thank you. Thank you, Mark, you just listened to me answer the question that James wanted to ask and now I want to know. Is there a question that you would like to ask? Because there may be an opportunity for you to do it on the Everyday Vopreneur podcast Summer series. Head to the website Beopreneur.com Summerseries Beopreneur.com Summersermeries and submit your question. I will be doing these summer series episodes through June, July and August and there might be an opportunity for you to come on the show, ask your question and get an answer. Beopreneur.com Summerseries.