Elegantly Boring

Summary

Everything is Fine: Episode Summary - “Elegantly Boring”

Release Date: May 5, 2025

In the episode titled “Elegantly Boring” of the podcast Everything is Fine, hosts Jennifer Romolini and Kim France delve into personal challenges, mental health journeys, sobriety, and the intricacies of navigating style and fashion after 40. This episode offers an intimate look into the lives of women redefining their identities during a pivotal stage of life.

Personal Mishaps and Shared Laughter

The episode begins with Jen Romolini humorously recounting a recent accident: “I dropped a really heavy hammer on my head” ([02:12]). Kim France adds to the light-hearted start by sharing a minor mishap of her own: “I stepped on my dog's foot at the pharmacy this morning” ([02:17]). These anecdotes set a relatable and candid tone for the conversation, illustrating that everyday challenges are part of their shared experiences.

Navigating Mental Health: Kim’s Ketamine Treatment Journey

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Kim France’s candid discussion about her mental health struggles and her recent foray into ketamine treatments. Addressing listener concerns, Kim reveals, “I know we've had some listeners asking about my mental health because I've been talking about how I've been kind of down” ([02:20]). She explains, “I have what is referred to as treatment-resistant depression. My depression does not respond well to medication” ([03:14]).

Kim describes her first ketamine session: “It was a whole trip” ([04:26]), contrasting her experience with those who undergo more intense psychedelic episodes. For her, it felt “pleasantly lightly high” ([04:56]) and left her in a better mood for the rest of the day. She mentions, “People start seeing a real change after two treatments” ([05:20]), expressing optimism about the positive impact of the treatment on her mental health.

Embracing Sobriety: Jen’s Personal Transformation

Jen Romolini opens up about her decision to pursue sobriety, sharing, “My biggest problem is the weed” ([06:08]). She details her journey of cutting back on substances to achieve better emotional stability: “I was waking up feeling a little out of it... I was just getting too emotional and too reactive” ([06:08]).

Jen emphasizes the importance of self-care and finding balance, stating, “I have to stabilize here” ([06:08]). She reflects on the impact of sobriety on her interactions and overall well-being: “I was choosing to do things with friends for the most part that are sober” ([06:08]). This segment underscores the transformative power of making conscious lifestyle changes to enhance mental health and personal relationships.

Style and Fashion: The Struggle with Evolving Tastes

The conversation shifts to a lighter yet equally personal topic: fashion and style. Both hosts express frustration with current trends and the challenges of maintaining a wardrobe that reflects their evolving identities.

Jen laments her disillusionment with jumpsuits: “I have a closet full of these... suddenly I'm like, no, it has to be separate” ([28:44]). Kim echoes this sentiment, adding, “I don't know what's going to be chic to me now” ([30:42]). They discuss specific fashion dilemmas, such as the overabundance of barrel jeans: “I tried some and they looked awful on me” ([32:35]). The hosts share a mutual disdain for trends that don’t align with their personal styles, emphasizing the difficulty of finding age-appropriate yet fashionable attire.

The discussion also touches on footwear preferences, with Jen expressing fatigue over Birkenstocks: “I'm having real Birkenstock fatigue” ([27:23]) and contemplating alternatives like Rachel Comey kitten heels: “Every time I see them, I'm like… amazing” ([31:09]). This segment highlights the ongoing quest for comfort and style that suits their mature lifestyles.

Listener Questions: Expert Advice on Beauty and Style

Towards the end of the episode, Jen and Kim address several listener-submitted questions, offering practical advice on beauty and fashion.

1. Body Moisturizer Recommendations: Jen recommends products containing urea for dry skin, stating, “Eucerin… is like the best moisturizing product you can find” ([37:58]). She also suggests options like Charlotte Tilbury’s emollient moisturizers and Peter Thomas Roth’s gel moisturizers for added hydration.

2. Great Music to Check Out: Kim touches on her limited engagement with new music but mentions creating playlists for paying subscribers: “I occasionally make playlists for my paying subscribers on Fridays” ([38:43]).

3. Skincare Concerns: Addressing Jen’s concerns about new skin flakiness, Kim advises, “Try something with urea in it” and mentions, “Hyaluronic acid actually pulls moisture into your skin” ([38:51]).

4. Perfect White T-Shirt Under $50: The hosts discuss affordable and flattering white T-shirt options. Jen criticizes Everlane’s thin T-shirts, while Kim praises Madewell’s offerings but cautions about their durability: “They’re not the most, you know, exceptionally well constructed things” ([43:56]).

5. Current Beauty Ideals Around Women's Nails: Jen expresses discomfort with long nails, asking, “Can we normalize peasant hands yet?” ([44:56]), to which Kim responds positively to the trend of unmanicured nails: “Have you ever seen any women with nails like that Type on a keyboard? Like, it’s amazing” ([45:13]).

6. Beauty Product Longevity: Jen wonders why some beauty products lose effectiveness over time. Kim suggests looking for dupes on Reddit and discusses the role of preservatives: “The more natural the products, the funkier they get pretty quickly” ([45:33]).

Final Thoughts: Embracing Change and Finding Balance

As the episode concludes, Jen and Kim reflect on their personal growth and the importance of adapting to life's changes. Kim shares her fondness for spring as a metaphor for renewal: “It's a miracle that it happens every year” ([19:10]). They acknowledge the ongoing challenges of balancing personal well-being with societal expectations, emphasizing resilience and self-compassion.

Notable Quote: Jen encapsulates the essence of their journey, saying, “I’m really trying to ride the wave” ([07:58]), highlighting the ongoing effort to navigate life's ebbs and flows with grace and determination.

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This episode of Everything is Fine offers a heartfelt exploration of personal struggles, mental health management, sobriety, and the quest for authentic self-expression through style. Jen Romolini and Kim France provide a relatable and empowering dialogue for women navigating life beyond 40, encouraging listeners to embrace change, prioritize self-care, and find elegance in simplicity.

Transcript

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[Kim France]

Hi, and welcome to Everything is Fine, a podcast for women over 40. We are your hosts. I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

And I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And we're both just a little bit out on a limb today.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. I hit myself. I dropped a hammer on my head this week.

[Kim France]

I stepped on my dog's foot at the pharmacy this morning.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Well, I dropped a really heavy hammer on my head. I was like working on something in the house on an Eight foot ladder. And I bent down and went to move the ladder, not realizing the hammer was still on the ladder. And the fucking whole thing fell on my head, the giant metal hammer. And I was like, am I concussed? Like, should I not go to sleep? Like, is this what's going to happen? And then it was like, fine. But I was, I was really. I was googling a lot. You were like, Doctor, a hundred percent, 100%. I was like, imagine if this is how I go out. Alex was like, I think you're fine. Your pupils look fine. You're talking fine.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God.

[Jen Romolini]

How are you doing?

[Kim France]

I'm all right. I'm all right. I, you know, I know we've had some listeners asking about my mental health because I've been talking about how I've been kind of down.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

And this week I went and got my first ketamine treatment.

[Jen Romolini]

What was that like?

[Kim France]

Well, you know, I went to my doctor, I went to my psychopharmacologist, and I have what is referred to as treatment resistant depression. My depression does not respond well to medication. It's very hard to medicate me correctly. And I said to him, we've tried everything. Like, I haven't tried ketamine. Let's just give it a shot. And he's like, you're absolutely right.

[Jen Romolini]

Great.

[Kim France]

It was so gratifying. He was like, you're absolutely right. Looking at your chart. We have, in fact, tried everything. And so I went to this place that he recommended in the financial district. And, you know, they're very. Everybody's very nice and they set you up in a room and it's like you're in one of those chairs that they, like, do chemo in. Those comfortable, like, lounge chairs.

[Jen Romolini]

Medical lounge chairs. Yeah. Medical lounge chairs.

[Kim France]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That kind of says it all.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

And so they, you know, they ask if you want a blanket or whatever, and then they hook you up to the thing. And it took. The first one takes longer. It took about an hour and a half. And I didn't. Some people have really psychedelic experiences with it. You know, they. They like, you know, they feel like they learn something about themselves and it's. It's a whole trip.

[Jen Romolini]

Right. It's almost like a mushroom of a situation.

[Kim France]

Right. You know, I've talked to people who had that, but that was not my experience. My experience was just that I felt sort of lightly high, pleasantly lightly high. And then they take the IV out of you and put some fluids in, so that. And that makes the high go away.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. Okay.

[Kim France]

And then you hang out for a few minutes until you feel ready to leave, and then you go on your way.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. And.

[Kim France]

And the rest of the day, I was in a good mood. The rest of the day, I didn't feel high, but I did feel good. The next day, Less good today. Less good. You do six treatments over two weeks.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. Okay.

[Kim France]

And my next one is tomorrow.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

And they say that people start seeing a real change after two treatments. Okay, so we'll see. I mean, I'm really glad I did it.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I mean, look, it's worth trying. It's kind. It's just like, everything right now is a science experiment in these bodies and minds. Everything is like, well, maybe. I don't fucking know, you know? I have been trying sobriety.

[Kim France]

Wow. Oh, total sobriety.

[Jen Romolini]

Well, yeah, because my biggest problem is the weed, you know, and the. And alcohol's been giving me hot flashes, though, tonight, our friend. My friend. Our friend Glynis. Friend of the pod. Glynis is in town, so I'll probably have a martini with her. But I just, like, when Alex is, like, making negronis or whatever, I was just like, nah, I've just been. I've been choosing to do things with friends for the most part that are sober, and I have not been taking my nightly edible because I was just like, I'm starting to feel depressed, and I'm waking up feeling a little out of it, and I can't. I have, like, a teenager in my house, and it's hell. And, like, I was just getting too emotional and too reactive, and I was like, I have to stabilize here. And I don't know. I'm not on, you know, psychopharmaceuticals, like, except, you know, for adhd. And I was like, well, what can I do? So I started working out more. I stopped taking the weed, and I stopped drinking, which has been making me sleep better. And, I don't know, I'm feeling a little more balanced, generally, and less reactive, which was really what my big problem was.

[Kim France]

That's great.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. So who knows if it's gonna last? But, like, I was talking to a friend this week, and, like, just fucking before I started this whole thing, actually last weekend, I was just, like, sobbing, and I was like, I can't win. I feel like I can't win. I can't win with this kid. I can't win. And she said, what if you can't win? What if this isn't about winning?

[Kim France]

Yep.

[Jen Romolini]

And I was like, oh, yeah, that's it. It's just about, like. It's just about equanimity. That's it.

[Kim France]

It's about just like, you know, trying to continue to ride the wave.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly. Exactly. To ride the wave. Exactly that. And that's what I'm trying to do. But I felt like at that moment, substances for me were, like, impeding my riding the wave. I was just like. I was getting a little, like, edgy and not okay. And you could, you know, look, I think you get addicted to weed. We don't talk about it a lot, but, like, I'm starting to get itchy.

[Kim France]

For that hundred percent. And now that it's legal in so many places, they're finding that more.

[Jen Romolini]

I was starting to get itchy for the nightly edible. Like, by 5:00, I was like, where's. Where's my edible? You know? And it wasn't even, like, making me like, hi. It was just like, oh, I mean, a little bit, but it was just like, almost like stabilizing. So I was like, okay, I need a break. I need to again, change my relationship with this, you know, and reset my relationship so. I don't fucking know, man. I don't fucking know. It is so hard being old.

[Kim France]

It is harder. It is harder, but it's. I mean, what. Isn't it all. I've been thinking about this. Wasn't it always hard?

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, it's just hard being alive. And why. Why is it so hard being alive? And why is it harder for some. Like, do you know these people who are just sort of seem to be breezing through and you're just like, how. Like, does that take effort or is that just your brain chemistry?

[Kim France]

Well, I think brain chemistry is a lot of it, you know?

[Jen Romolini]

Or is it your. Or is it the trauma? Or is it that you didn't have trauma, so you were kind of normal. You were like, a little more normal. You weren't under loved. You weren't violently loved. You weren't confused. Like, is it that. Is it all, like, having a better childhood? I don't know.

[Kim France]

I was reading a Laurie Colwyn book and she was describing a character and she's like, describing her. And the last sentence in the paragraph is, she had a happy childhood.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. And it's the Fiona Apple line. I resent you for being raised right.

[Kim France]

It's like that.

[Jen Romolini]

Like, is this what it is? You know, this is always that, like, foundational. I'm bad. I'm bad. Anyway, so, yeah, so hit myself in a hammer. Hit myself in the head with a hammer and Also trying not to do drugs. You seem to be on a new drug journey. Happy for you. This seems good.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I think it'll be good. And you're very inspiring. I find your newfound sobriety very inspiring.

[Jen Romolini]

We'll see tonight. I'm probably gonna get crunk. Maybe not, though. It's funny because I just.

[Kim France]

Oh.

[Jen Romolini]

I went to a party and I didn't drink. I went to a friend's birthday party and I had a look and I know everybody who's listening, who's sober. Like, this is so pathetic. But, like, for me, it was like, oh, I just ordered a bitters and soda with a lime. And I was like, oh, look, I look like I'm drinking. And it was not that hard. And honestly, I was like, really anxious at this party. I know the person, but I don't know any of her friends. And there was like, a lot of, like, rich Hollywood people. And I was like, I don't. I'm always uncomfortable in this situation. And people were starting to get loose around me. And I liked not being loose. Like, I liked, like, being like, oh, I feel uncomfortable. Oh, okay, I'm gonna talk to a different person. Oh, now it's time for me to leave. I stayed for like 90 minutes and I drove home. No fucking Uber. And I felt it was kind of great. Like, you know, far be it from me to say that I should probably quit alcohol altogether, but it really did feel great in that situation. I was, like, almost smug at how great it felt.

[Kim France]

You know, I didn't drink for 20 years, which I think I've said on this from the ages of 30 to 50. And I really thought at the beginning, like, parties aren't gonna be fun anymore. Going to see bands isn't gonna be fun anymore. Like, all these things are not gonna be fun anymore. I found that everything became fun again. The only thing that didn't was going out for long meals at fancy restaurants.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, interesting. Oh, but that's also cause you hate food. That's also cause you're not a foodie too.

[Kim France]

Well, that's part of it. That's definitely part of it. But I think that a meal is paced a lot by the wine. So if a meal is taking a long time, if that's the point of it, like, you're kind of chilled into it. And I just did the opposite.

[Jen Romolini]

Interesting. Interesting. I found when I. In the times I've been sober, the hardest thing was weddings. I found weddings to be really difficult sober because I was pregnant for like three people's weddings. And I was like, this fucking sucks.

[Kim France]

Well, because as I've said before, life is short, but weddings are long. Weddings are so fucking long. I think I get a medal for having a three. Was it a three hour wedding? It was a three hour wedding.

[Jen Romolini]

It was in and out. We were done. We were just hanging at the end. We were just sitting at your mom's house, hanging. I was like, oh, this is not. This is just a hang. No, that was good. Yeah. Weddings are long. Although I kind of miss them. I kind of miss them because I don't go to any anymore because nobody's everyone, really. We should start having divorce parties that are the same as weddings. Like, big fun divorce parties with also that the person gets like a. This is a Jane Marie idea. The person gets a registry because, like, you lose half your shit, you know? So having like a registry would be great. We should have, like, delightful divorce parties where we all get to get dressed up. Because that's the thing that I miss is getting dressed up.

[Kim France]

Me too.

[Jen Romolini]

I miss that a little bit. So I just miss getting dressed. Do you know what I'm wearing today? I like, I.

[Kim France]

You're wearing something cockamamie. I can tell.

[Jen Romolini]

It is so cockamamie. I'm wearing a Joni Mitchell T shirt with a crochet orange shirt on top and, like, some sweater. I had the worst outfit on the other day. I like, looked at myself in, like, a car and like, I was walking on sunset with all the beautiful people and I was like, what am I doing? Like, this is. This looks like I was, like, released from, like, a home. Like.

[Kim France]

I know, I know. When I went to the West Village to go get my hair done, you know, the other day, I was like, you know, everybody is an influencer wandering around the West Village. It's just like, ridiculous. And I was just like, what the fuck did you walk out of the house in?

[Jen Romolini]

Like, the proportions. Like, I'm wearing, like, I'm wearing like some sort of like, novelty sock with like a. With like pants that are a little cropped and like, my gym shoes. I was like, what is happening? Like, I have to pull this shit together.

[Kim France]

I know. I feel the same way.

[Jen Romolini]

I just need to get rid of everything that looks like this.

[Kim France]

I mean, it's bringing me some happiness, that crochet shirt. So I'm glad you're wearing it today.

[Jen Romolini]

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And I've also had, like a bunch of fail purchase fails recently. Like, Because I've been trying to solve the problem, and, like, I've been like, that dress is gonna be it. And the dress is just like, what the fuck is this? You know, like, it doesn't look right or it. Like, it just hugs, like, that one extra thigh lump. You know, it's just like. It's just like, exactly that. With the materials so thin that, like, it's just. You know, that's not my body. That's the fucking dress's fault, not me. But, yeah, a lot of fails. A lot of fails. And then I'm like, I shouldn't be buying anything. But then I walk out and I'm like, I look ridiculous. I have to rethink this whole shit.

[Kim France]

I know. It's. It's never ending.

[Jen Romolini]

It's never ending. It's never ending. But maybe it is ending for some people who are just like, I don't give a fuck. I see those people, too.

[Kim France]

Yeah, maybe I am that person.

[Jen Romolini]

No, there's. No, you're not that person. You're annoyingly. You have the ease of that person because you figured out the formula so you can be the. I don't give a fuck. Because everything in your. You've. You've worked hard to figure out how everything in your closet, like, matches. And you have a uniform.

[Kim France]

I know, but it's a really boring uniform.

[Jen Romolini]

Who cares? Rather to look boring than crazy? Yeah, maybe elegantly boring.

[Kim France]

The next time somebody asks me in. Like, one of those Q and A is what my style is.

[Jen Romolini]

Elegantly boring, boring sophisticate. I have a revise. I don't know if we're going into things that don't suck, but I have a revised opinion.

[Kim France]

Okay.

[Jen Romolini]

I want to hear Dying for Sex.

[Kim France]

It's good.

[Jen Romolini]

I gave it more. Okay. Literally one of the worst pilots for such a good show I've ever seen. Like, the pilot is overworked, overthought, so thuddy and clunky. Like, I couldn't really fathom how the show was going to get better. And, like, there's still some problems with it. But overall, it's such a worthwhile watch for two reasons. Well, many reasons. But Jenny Slate just steals this show. She's so amazing.

[Kim France]

I love her.

[Jen Romolini]

She's so good. And she gets even better every episode. She gets better and better. Rob Delaney shows up and does this, like, kind of remarkable, like, man performance, like, broken man, like, redemption arc that's just, like, gorgeous to watch. And, you know, Michelle Williams is good. Like, Michelle Williams is always good. And I wouldn't say she's like, extra good in this. I've seen her be better, but she's certainly good. And Sissy Spacek is amazing. And it gets at a lot of things about, like, trauma and mothers and daughters, but really about female friendship in a way that I think is. Was profoundly moving and totally worthwhile show. And on top of all of that, the outfits are impeccable. Like, you know when a show just gets costumes, right? And you're like, that's what that person would fucking be wearing. That, like, vintage cardigan. That's perfect. You know, it's so good. And I really want. I want somebody to give me, like, a shopping list of everything that both Michelle Williams character and Jenny Slate's characters are wearing. Like, in every episode. I just want every single garment because I'm like, that's a perfect sweatshirt, that's a perfect scarf, That's a perfect pair of jeans. Those loafers are ideal, et cetera, et cetera.

[Kim France]

Wow.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I guess it's Michelle Williams person who did the costumes. Like, I guess that person goes with her and makes sense because Michelle Williams has really good style.

[Kim France]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna give it another chance.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Give it another chance and you will cry.

[Kim France]

I have been watching your friends and neighbors.

[Jen Romolini]

How is it? I just. I don't know why I decided to pass, but how is it?

[Kim France]

It's good. It's fine.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

I wouldn't say it's like, you know, heart stopping tv, but we have exited the golden age of television. Like, we just don't have great shows like we did a while ago.

[Jen Romolini]

No, it's like media. It's like everything is like. I think somebody said this. Maybe it was like Vulture or something. Somebody said like, we're in like mid prestige tv. Like, everything's like, almost good.

[Kim France]

Yes.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, that's it.

[Kim France]

That's exactly right.

[Jen Romolini]

That's it.

[Kim France]

That's exactly right. But so for a thing that doesn't suck, I'm going to say springtime in New York because it's a fucking miracle. Yeah, It's a fucking miracle that it happens every year. Every year. You don't think the winter's ever gonna end. And every year March just kicks everybody's ass. And it's way too cold. And you keep thinking it's time to put away your puffer, and it's not time to put away your puffer. And then these tiny little buds come out on the trees and you're like, maybe it's gonna happen. And then. And then the daffodils bloom and then the forsythias bloom. And then, and then all the trees, like now the trees have leaves on them. And it's a miracle to me.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, look. And I think, I think it's important to go through that cycle every year. I think it's important. It's like, you know, it's the big cliche, like la. I could never live there. Cause there's no seasons. It's fucking true. You become fucked up. Like, I think it's important to go through that and remember that miracle every year.

[Kim France]

It's very nice to remember that miracle. I would love. I mean, I would love nothing more than not to exist in another winter climate. If circumstances changed and I could live somewhere warm for the winter. Every winter I would do it.

[Jen Romolini]

I think. I believe in my heart. I keep saying it. I believe in my heart you are going to become a snowbird. I really do.

[Kim France]

I think I might.

[Jen Romolini]

I think you will. I don't know if it's going to be Florida, but like, maybe.

[Kim France]

I don't know where it's going to be. That's the thing.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kim France]

That's really the thing. Where would it be? Just not sure.

[Jen Romolini]

I don't know. I feel like there's like an island that's unexplored that you could be like, yes, this is the right island. Or maybe it's like Key West. I don't know.

[Kim France]

I don't know either.

[Jen Romolini]

I don't know.

[Kim France]

I don't know either. But yeah, no, the miracle of spring. It's really corny, but it's also just very true. And even in my crap mood lately, it's been so nice when I go outside to see spring happening. And you know how it is in New York. Like the city, you get a few warm days and the city just bounces back into that mode.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, 100%. It's like a collective. It's like, yeah, I get it, I get it, I get it. I miss it. I miss it so much. I can smell it. You know, let's take a quick break from some ads. Support for Everything Is Fine comes from Ritual. You know, I'm a beauty editor by day and I come across a ton of products that don't work that are truly a waste of money and time. But that is one of the reasons that I love Rituals Hyacinth, which is a multi step skincare routine. Routine in just one daily supplement. I've long loved Ritual. I've used Ritual's multivitamins. I like its mel. I like their Melatonin. I like their protein powder. Ritual is just an excellent clean supplement brand. They're aesthetically pleasing, they taste good, and Haya is special, especially special. It's a once daily skin supplement that's clinically proven to reduce fine lines and increase skin smoothness in 90 days. In a clinical study, Haasera led to a 2.9 time increase in skin smoothness within 90 days as compared to a placebo. So you can support your skin from the inside out with one daily capsule essence with Soothing Vanilla. So here's my call to action for you. Start Hyacara to support your glow without compromising on clean science, get 25% off your first month for a limited [e-mail] fine. Start ritual or add Hyah to your subscription today. That's ritual.com fine for 25% off.

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[Jen Romolini]

And we're back. Okay, so I have a lot of things that do suck. I really I don't have much of a don't suck. I have so many things to talk about that suck. I really do. I'm sorry, do you have things that don't suck as maybe you should go first.

[Kim France]

Okay, well, my Things that don't suck list kind of sucks. I'm just going to say it kind of sucks because. But here. But this is an important one. I know I'm being very. I'm being a little woo today.

[Jen Romolini]

I love it.

[Kim France]

But breathing. Box breathing. Box breathing.

[Jen Romolini]

What's box breathing?

[Kim France]

Inhale for four beats.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, yes.

[Kim France]

Hold it in for four beats. Breathe out for seven beats.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

When I went the other day to get the ketamine, they took my blood pressure and my heart rate and they were like, your heart rate is too fast to do this. We can't do it with your heart rate at this. And I think and then I was like, oh, well, it's not gonna slow down now. Cause now I'm anxious. You're not gonna be able to do it. And they were like, just, we're gonna turn out the lights in here. Just do some breathing exercises. And I brought it down and it was just a reminder. Like, you know, people like me and you go into fight or flight so quickly right away.

[Jen Romolini]

My whole day, my whole day is spent like that.

[Kim France]

Yep. And it just like. I mean, I'm about to say re centering, but re. It. I. It recentered me and it was, it was amazing. It's like, oh yeah, shit works. Like this actually works.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I got it. I have to like. It's like, it's like mental hygiene and I have to practice it. Or if not, I'm just like a filth bot. Like I'm just walking around like all the time. Like I'm just like on edge. Like I feel, feel like I feel like an animal sometimes. Like I'm just like pounding shit around me, you know, and like so reactive. Crying. Like, I mean the hormones don't like the fluctuations don't help and whatever. No, you're right. Breathing. That is a good ass reminder. Box breathing. Good one. I think this does not suck.

[Kim France]

Thank you. And then I have one more thing that doesn't suck.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

That I'll share because most of the things on my list do kind of suck. I like. There's a brand called Buck Mason.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh yes.

[Kim France]

They make a very nice button down called the mainstay. Okay, Very nice. Good cotton, you know, substantial, but not too heavy. Comes in lots of different colorways.

[Jen Romolini]

What are you thinking? That sounds really. I want that. I want that. I want exactly that button down. What are you thinking for sandals this year? I am having real Birkenstock fatigue, which feels fucked up because where do you go?

[Kim France]

I mean, it's hard. I can't wear clogs anymore. It's pretty much Birkenstocks and sneakers. And I did get a pair of fit flop fisherman sandals.

[Jen Romolini]

Ooh. Ooh. Okay. Are they cute? Are they cute?

[Kim France]

They're all right. They're all right. They're kind of a platform.

[Jen Romolini]

Mm.

[Kim France]

Super comfy.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. I need. I mean, I have my Archies, which I'm really into, because they look like regular flip flops, and I feel like that is the greatest trick in the world. They look like a reef flip flop. And I'm like, but you secretly have arch support. So I'm wearing those, and I have those slides and flip flops, but I'm just like, what do I want for summer? Like, if I go on a summer trip, like, what are the ships? And I'm like, visually, I don't know. I think it's just been too. I get to these points with certain style things where. And I feel the same way about jumpsuits right now, where, like, suddenly, like, my brain is just totally rejecting them. They're like, I done it too much. I'm done. I'm just. I need to shut the door on this for a while.

[Kim France]

This is kind of the headline of the whole entire episode that I'm done with jumpsuits. Yes.

[Jen Romolini]

I think this is my entire style crisis, because I am done with jumpsuits. I feel ridiculous in them. Something has shifted in me or in the things that I'm absorbing and seeing, and I just feel so out of place in it. I suddenly feel like I'm in a. I feel like I'm not chic. I feel like I'm in a lady fucking playsuit.

[Kim France]

Yeah, that's. That's also an age thing. And I would argue a good age thing.

[Jen Romolini]

I don't want it anymore. And do you understand that I have a closet full of these? Because I really just. I mean. And look, they lasted much longer than I thought they were going to. Started wearing jumpsuits. I know exactly the moment I started wearing jumpsuits. It was in the summer. I can't believe that I know this. It was in the summer of 2015, was when I bought my first jumpsuit. So it's been 10 years. And suddenly I'm like, no, it has to be separate. You can't keep doing this shit. And, okay, we've identified it. That is my crisis. Yeah, that's it.

[Kim France]

I feel good about us doing that.

[Jen Romolini]

I feel good about us too. But where do I go now?

[Kim France]

I know. It's so hard. It's so hard. I feel that way too, you know? Like, what?

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I'm just trying. Shit. And look, I'm pointing out the orange crochet again, guys. Like, it's. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what's chic to me now. And that is really. And it's. To me, it's like. I mean, of course it has to do with the outside world and trends, but, you know, you get to a certain age and you're sort of like, post trend, right? And I don't know what my lady style is, and I'm really. I'm really floundering around for it. I'm, like, looking to everybody. I'm like, what are you guys. What are you guys doing?

[Kim France]

I know. Yeah. I don't know what my get dressed nice style is anymore.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, that's a.

[Kim France]

That is so hard. And the footwear for that is impossible.

[Jen Romolini]

I think it's kitten heels.

[Kim France]

I actually have always hated kitten heels. And I have a pair now.

[Jen Romolini]

I have a really great pair of Rachel Comey kitten heels. And there's unbelievable. If I was looking. If I was going places and looking to splurge out, there's an unbelievable pair of yellow Rachel Comey kitten heels.

[Kim France]

I have seen them. I have had the same feeling.

[Jen Romolini]

They're so good.

[Kim France]

If there was a reason for me to get them, I would get them. They're amazing.

[Jen Romolini]

They're. They're so good. Like. Like, I can't even handle how good they are. Every time I see them, I'm like. I clock them. I'm like, and you have them, too. No, there's like, I've been. I've been, like, trying to follow, like, my style ladies. My older style ladies. There's, like, somebody who works at Claire V. Her name is Greta something, and she has really good style. And I've been like, what's she wearing? And like, there's like, that lady from the Netherlands and Bloom. Whatever her name is, Denise something. She has good style. What is she wearing? And they're all wearing things that I don't want to wear because I fucking hate barrel jeans so much. The tyranny. And I have tried, and I've had friends be like, oh, just get these. These are the perfect ones.

[Kim France]

No, they're terrible. I hate barrel jeans so much that I really don't feel like we should devote any time on this podcast to discussing them.

[Jen Romolini]

But we have to, because they're. It's the tyranny of them. They're everywhere. There's like, not that many other cool choices.

[Kim France]

Like, no, there aren't.

[Jen Romolini]

Skinny jeans have not come all the way back. Like, they're. They're on their way, I think, hopefully. But like these barrel jeans I've tried, Kim. I think I've tried like 12 pair of barrel jeans and like, I don't have a hard body to. To fit jeans and not one has looked good on me.

[Kim France]

No, I'm the same way. I tried some and they. They looked awful on me and everybody kept loving them, so I kept trying and.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, and when are they going to fucking go away? Why are they still here? I thought they were going to be here and gone.

[Kim France]

No, I know. Then instead, every single brand made a version.

[Jen Romolini]

And they didn't just made them in jeans either. They've made them in all pants. The contagion is now in like, khakis suck. It's everywhere.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God.

[Jen Romolini]

Really? The hard hitting podcast is what this is. Okay, I have two things that suck that we're going to talk about before we get into. Before we get into listener questions. They're. And they're very important. Both of them.

[Kim France]

Okay, good.

[Jen Romolini]

Number one, what the fuck is up with everybody talking on speakerphone everywhere all the time? Have you noticed this?

[Kim France]

I haven't noticed this. I do talk on speakerphone, but not in public.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, fine. I talk on. In the privacy of your own home. Anything can happen. I was in a coffee shop yesterday. There were two people talking on speakerphone. I was in the gym on Saturday. There was a girl on the elliptical next to me who was explaining a date to her friend on speakerphone for 30 minutes.

[Kim France]

Unbelievable.

[Jen Romolini]

I had headphones on. I was like jamming out and I could still hear the conversation about her fucking date. Two sides. Like, where are your headphones? When did we decide that it's okay to be having like full ass conversations? Two sides of them. It was bad enough when we were having one side on the speakerphone in fucking public.

[Kim France]

Isn't that true? It was bad enough when it was one side and now we hear both.

[Jen Romolini]

Sides and like people are like, just like, listen. Like people like no headphones on or just like tiktoking fucking. Just anything. And I put this on Instagram. So I know it's not just me being an old crank. And I never have gotten more responses to an Instagram post in my entire life. It was on my stories. I probably got 200 people being like, oh my God, this also is happening to me. So if you're fucking doing this, please stop. But also, a lot of people told me I should tell people to stop, but I'm not getting into that. I don't have the disposition to have.

[Kim France]

A confrontation after what happened when we were in Paul. Paul took me to get the ketamine on Monday and waited and drove me home. And we were trying to get. We were stuck behind a car that was, like, unloading Uber passengers. And I was like, they got to get out of the way. And I start run rolling the window to yell at them.

[Jen Romolini]

No, no.

[Kim France]

Paul's like, kim, stop.

[Jen Romolini]

No, no, no. I don't have. I can't get into it. The thing is, I can't get into confrontations because I am confrontational. But if I actually confront, I get so angry that I cry. Like, I can't. It's just. I can't, like, even loosen that valve a little bit.

[Kim France]

Cause it goes.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly. And then. My second thing that sucks is that what is going on with airlines. I was trying to book a flight, and I was like, wait, nobody lets you even choose a seat?

[Kim France]

Is that true?

[Jen Romolini]

I was trying. Yes, I was trying to book a seat. I was trying to book a flight to Europe for this Europe trip I'm taking. And I was just looking at flights, and I was like, oh, all of these airlines are not offering seats. And I was like, okay, well, what if I upgrade? What if I upgrade? And it was like, no, I couldn't get a seat. I couldn't get a chosen seat assignment. I don't know if this is just international flights. I don't know what it is, but it was really hard until I went into, like, business class to get. Not first class, but, like, the one under that to get to be able to pick my seat. I just want to pick a seat. Like, I need an aisle seat. I'm like a claustro.

[Kim France]

But do you know that even if you pick a seat on lots of airlines, they'll change your seat?

[Jen Romolini]

I am so tired of air travel being such. Just so demoralizing. I am so, so over it. I am so over having to pay for every goddamn thing. The seats being so small. I'm just. I know this is, like the ultimate shitty, obvious rant cliche, and I can't help it because I can't believe how expensive it is for getting nothing.

[Kim France]

Oh, you get nothing at all. It's torture.

[Jen Romolini]

They're gonna, like, have us in crates on the undercarriage soon. That's gonna be, like, an option. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I think spirit. Spirit's almost there.

[Kim France]

They do have airplanes that they. They've. I mean, they've tested a thing or they've. They've made it where you have standing seats because you can fit more people.

[Jen Romolini]

This is. This is where we're headed. Like, maybe don't try to fucking go to, like, fake space and maybe fix this shit.

[Kim France]

Oh, God, oh, God, oh, God.

[Jen Romolini]

Anyway, I know, I know. And also just the feeling that they're gonna cry that on top of all of it, you might crash. Like, the whole time I'm like, well, should I even be booking these flights?

[Kim France]

I know.

[Jen Romolini]

Anyway, it's criminal. It's criminal. And I just wanted to rant about it like old timey Seinfeld. What is the deal with not being able to pick my seat? Like, I accepted all your other stupid rules. Okay, I'm going to look at our listener questions because I think we have some good ones. All right. Body moisturizer recommendations. My legs and arms get so dry now in menopause. I know exactly what you should do. You should get Eucerin, because the ingredient called urea, which sounds like urine but is not, is like the best moisturizing product you can find. So go for things with urea in it. Urea. And the best one from dermatologist I've talked to is Eucerin.

[Kim France]

Great.

[Jen Romolini]

All right. What great music should we check out? I'm interested in ideas from my playlist. Kim. I don't know.

[Kim France]

I know. I mean, I immediately. When I saw that question, I immediately thought of new music and I listened to so little new music.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

I do occasionally make playlist for my paying subscribers on Fridays, though.

[Jen Romolini]

All right, well, they should look you up on Spotify or pay. What they should actually do is pay for your substack and they can get free Kim France playlists.

[Kim France]

Yes. But the truth is, anybody can go to Substack and get my playlist.

[Jen Romolini]

Spotify.

[Kim France]

What did I say? Substack.

[Jen Romolini]

You said substack. It's all right. There's so many. What are we supposed to do?

[Kim France]

What are we supposed to do? And I think we've done really well adapting to all of these changes. That's another thing. This generation gets very little credit. We have. The whole fucking world changed. Like, we have grandparents. My grandfather. My grandfather was alive in the 1800s.

[Jen Romolini]

It's true. It's true.

[Kim France]

He was alive in horse and buggy days.

[Jen Romolini]

Mine weren't. Mine were not. Mine were alive in, like, the 30s. I think they were born in the 30s. Because of my short generations. But still, I mean, the. The digital. The whole digital change, really, that we've sort of been in, both is a lot.

[Kim France]

Yep.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, here's some. Here's a bunch of quick questions. Jen, has the skunk smell dissipated? Okay, skunk update. Yes, the skunk smell has mostly dissipated, except for my dog's head and except from. Except from my office, which we can't find the smell in here. And I have to put vinegar. I'm supposed to put bowls filled with vinegar, white vinegar in here, but I don't want to be huffing vinegar all day. So. Yeah, really, it's like. It's like. Is the skunk smell better? You don't notice it after a while.

[Kim France]

Yikes.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, Kim, I think we already answered this, but how are you feeling?

[Kim France]

Yes, I feel like we all know a lot about how I'm feeling.

[Jen Romolini]

Feeling better. Okay. And then this. This is the third question. Wedding season. Wear how to look age appropriate, not like an old lady, but not trying too hard, especially with, in my opinion, ridiculous Little House on the Prairie style dresses out there right now. Also, shoes for weddings these days. I'd say we already answered that. Kitten heels. These prairie style dresses like another.

[Kim France]

It's too much.

[Jen Romolini]

It's too much. I saw G. Thanks. I just bought it. Named her dress of the year, and it is the most milk matey shit I've ever seen. I was like, really? I was like, oh, this is it. This is the dress of the year. Fucking milkmaid shit. No, thanks.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I'm not down with that.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. When it gets involved in tiers plus ruffles, plus, like, cutouts, plus cut, plus a bow.

[Kim France]

Yeah, that's it. It's too much. It's too much. I will say. I will say. I mentioned this on the sub stack this week. Old Navy right now has a collection of occasion dresses.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

And some of them are really cute. It's worth checking out.

[Jen Romolini]

You have really good recommendations today.

[Kim France]

Thank you.

[Jen Romolini]

You really do. I'm writing them all down. I mean, not only to make the show notes, but because they're all really good. Okay. But for weddings, like, I don't know. We've talked about this so much.

[Kim France]

It's so goddamn hard. It's so goddamned hard to find, like, an appropriate dressy dress that has sleeves and is it. And is a nice length.

[Jen Romolini]

I had some luck, and this is not gonna be for everybody, but I had some luck at Queens of Archive. They have some, like, kind of funkier dresses. They're long. I think they're cute. I had some luck there. That's what I ordered the last wedding I went to.

[Kim France]

Although that was a cool dress.

[Jen Romolini]

It's a cool dress. Like yes, because that's kind of what you want. You want a cool dress that doesn't show too like. Or maybe you want to show skin. Show whatever you want. But you want a cool dress that's not matronly but that doesn't feel like too milk matey. Like that's what you're looking for. I mean it's also. Rachel Comey is always a pick. And where else have I found dresses that I've been like, yeah, that's a good dress. I don't remember. Okay, I'm getting weird flakiness on my nose, forehead and chin. Oh gosh. First I thought I need a better exfoliation. But it doesn't seem to make a difference. I've been very lucky to make it to this point. 51 with clear skin. So this is new to me. Usually my skin is fairly balanced. Any suggestions? I don't know how oily or dry your skin is. Charlotte Tilbury makes a very good, very emollient moisturizer that you could try. You could also try something with urea in it. Eucerin I think is really good for super dry skin if you want to go like drugstore and less expensive. And then if you want like a gel like hydro boost hyaluronic acid because hyaluronic acid actually pulls moisture into your skin. Peter Thomas Roth makes a good gel moisturizer. And Neutrogena makes a decent dupe though I think the Peter Thomas Roth one is better. I don't know. It's weird how much I'm starting to know about this shit.

[Kim France]

I know. Listen to you.

[Jen Romolini]

Perfect white t shirt under $50. I am not skinny so it can't be a men's T shirt. Like a real T shirt with a scoop or otherwise. Nice neckl line and flattering sleeves.

[Kim France]

I don't mind the T shirts at madewell. Yeah, I think they're good, they're well priced. You gotta keep em out of the dryer because they're not the most, you know, exceptionally well constructed things.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I mean I've heard really good things weirdly about the Old Navy. Specifically the Old Navy white T shirts. Right now there was like a whole debate at my shopping job about which is the best white T shirt. And several women our age chimed in that it's the Old Navy white T shirts. I just got the Everlane like white T shirt. That everybody like raves about. I found it to be kind of thin, which I hate in a white T shirt, like really full bra exposure. And I didn't think it was as good as I wanted it to be. But I agree with your wreck on madewell. But you can't try them because not only do they fall apart, but they fucking shrink.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

What's up with the current beauty ideal around women's nails? Long nails gross me out. Is this an example of how we enshrine helplessness? I get that adornment is kind of celebration. Heck, my own daughters do this. But claw queens? Can we normalize peasant hands yet?

[Kim France]

I just read an article somewhere where somebody was saying like unmanicured hands or, you know, no, polish was like a new happening look. So I don't know. It doesn't bug me because have you ever seen any women with nails like that Type on a keyboard? Like, it's amazing. They're really good at it.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I'm always like, really impressed with them and I'm always like, go for it if you want. I don't know. I think it's cool. It's not for me, but it's cool. Yep. How often do we need to swap out our tried and true beauty products? Why does it seem like some products that are not expired stop working after a while? Also, any tips for replacing favorite beauty products when they are no longer made? In terms of replacing favorite beauty products when they are no longer made, I look on Reddit threads. Reddit is so good for finding dupes for things and I do a lot of research in Reddit. So if you have something that you really loved, chances are somebody else really loved it and has found a dupe for it. I don't know. It's like your tried and true beauty products, hopefully you're using them and like they shouldn't be going bad. But I have no idea why some products stop working after a while, but I suspect it's the amount of preservatives in them. The more natural the products, the funkier they get pretty quickly. It's pretty easy. And then tips for allergy season stay in. Mine's just flonase. I'm just flonase in all day long.

[Kim France]

I'm not. I don't get allergies really. So I have no answer.

[Jen Romolini]

I never got them until I moved to la. It's like. Cause you. I don't know, I just wasn't used to whatever the plants are here and the flora, whatever. And I have pretty bad allergies. Every year in la, weirdly, but Flonase works for me. I don't know. People say you're supposed to have, like, local honey, but who knows? Yeah, who knows? All right, well, that wasn't a particularly exciting note to end on.

[Kim France]

No, no, it's true.

[Jen Romolini]

Flonase, Flonase, Flonase. In all the time, all day long. But that's what we got. Like, that's it.

[Kim France]

That's where it ended.

[Jen Romolini]

That's where it ended. Thanks for listening to Everything is Fine. We're your host. I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

If you like the show, please rate and review it across the platforms. It really helps people find the show. And for everybody who's been putting reviews on Spotify, I see you, I see you commenting on there. I thank you for being over there on Spotify. I'm not there often, but it's cool that people are listening to the podcast on Spotify and commenting on specific episodes, which is what you can know. You should go check it out. It's cool. They say nice things. If you want to support the production of the show and get show notes and all of today's recommendations and a few bonus recommendations, you can join our [e-mail] everythingisfine. It's $3 a month. I need to update the tiers over there. It's $3 a month. If you wanna pay us more, you can. And you get once a week show notes and sometimes some other recommendations and musings from us. If you wanna find Kim, you can find Kim on her substack. Kim France. Substack.com Today's excellent style advice writ large. You can find me on substack too. I'm generalmalini.substack.com we still have a Facebook group, but I don't know what we're doing over there. You can also find us on Instagram if podcast. The show is mixed and edited every week by wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. The best, Natalie Rivera. Thank you, Natalie. And we'll be back next week.

[Naomi Ekparigan]

Hey, this is Jonathan Fields, host of the Good Life Project podcast. Boost Mobile. Reminds me of what I love when someone reimagines what's possible. They have invested billions in building America's newest 5G network, becoming the country's fourth major carrier. They are doing things differently, offering a $25 monthly unlimited plan that never increases in price and letting you try their service risk free for 30 days. With blazing fast 5G and plans for all the latest devices, they're changing the game. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or find them online@boost mobile.com the Boost Mobile network, together with their roaming partners, covers 99% of the US population. 5G speeds not available in all areas.

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[Jen Romolini]

Sure all the mothers in your life.

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[Paige Desorbo]

This is Paige Desorbo, the co host of Giggly Squad. I have exciting news. McDonald's has all new McCrispy strips. It's chicken made for dipping. Tender, juicy white meat chicken with a golden brown peppery breading. It's chicken so good it deserves its own sauce. The creamy chili McCrispy strip dip. A sauce that's creamy, savory and sweet with a little heat. But it works with any of our sauces. I'm personally a barbecue sauce girl. Even sometimes I like ketchup. I'm just like basic sometimes, but I also need it. In addition to any new sauces, I'm trying with a new Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's chicken made for dipping only at McDonald's.