"Is menopause sexy?"

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Is Menopause Sexy?" Podcast: Everything is Fine
Hosts: Jennifer Romolini and Kim France
Episode Release Date: January 13, 2025

---

Introduction

In the episode titled "Is Menopause Sexy?", hosts Kim France and Jen Romolini delve into the multifaceted experiences of women navigating life over 40. The conversation weaves through personal growth, relationships, mental health, identity shifts, and societal perceptions of aging, culminating in an exploration of menopause's place in modern discourse.

---

Decluttering and Identity Transformation ([02:43] - [10:06])

The episode opens with a candid discussion about the challenges of decluttering and moving, aptly named "Packing Hell." Jen Romolini shares her struggle with overconsumption, particularly unpacked items accumulated over years, such as party supplies and sentimental clothing.

Jen Romolini:
"[...] we've really made a vow to each other that we would go through everything. And we have given, we have donated carloads of things."
[05:37]

Kim France relates by mentioning her experience with sorting through her son’s belongings as he moves out, emphasizing the emotional labor involved in parting with items that no longer represent their current selves.

---

Relationship Growth and Therapy ([10:07] - [27:05])

The hosts transition into discussing their personal relationships and the impact of therapy. Jen reflects on her marriage, highlighting a decade-long partnership characterized by teamwork and mutual growth, contrasting it with her initial perception of having the "worst marriage."

Jen Romolini:
"I just think people get better as they get older. Like we've had moments in this where I had one real big meltdown when we were going through like a lot of personal stuff of mine."
[05:24]

Kim shares her journey through therapy, exploring childhood traumas and the enduring impact of parental relationships. They discuss the concept that despite personal growth, core essences from childhood persist, influencing current mental states.

Kim France:
"You know, the person I was at 10 is the person I was at 18 is the person I was at 30 and 60."
[22:34]

---

Cultural Identity and Personal Heritage ([27:06] - [19:58])

A poignant segment covers Kim's upcoming trip to Houston, Texas, to attend a memorial service for her mother's friend, Marilyn. Marilyn's influence on Kim's appreciation for art and individuality is highlighted, juxtaposed with the emotional challenges of returning to a place laden with childhood memories.

Kim France:
"She was an art patron. Anybody who lives in Houston knows about the Art Car Parade and the Orange Show. These are both art things that she really was responsible for."
[18:01]

Jen discusses her connection to Baltimore, reflecting on cultural identity and the comfort derived from familiar traditions like the Feast of the Seven Fishes.

Jen Romolini:
"So, yeah, I love Baltimore. I fucking love Baltimore."
[17:40]

---

Media and Pop Culture Reviews ([33:23] - [46:17])

The conversation shifts to recent films and television shows, with the hosts offering critiques and personal impressions.

• Film "Anora": Both hosts express their appreciation for the film's artistic value and its portrayal of female experiences, though Jen questions the extent of depicting female suffering.

  Kim France:
  "The final scene encapsulated so much about what it is to be female on this planet and like the rage, the sadness, the just everything."
  [34:22]

• Golden Globes Commentary: They critique the emphasis on celebrity physiques and the superficiality of award ceremonies.

  Jen Romolini:
  "I feel like everybody was too skinny."
  [37:02]

• Surgeon General's Announcement on Alcohol: The hosts discuss the new health guidelines linking alcohol to cancer, reflecting on their personal relationships with drinking.

  Kim France:
  "My gynecologist was really banging the drum for me to give up alcohol entirely."
  [58:02]

---

Listener Questions and Advice ([48:37] - [60:46])

The hosts address listener-submitted questions, offering insights and personal anecdotes:

1. Laser Resurfacing and Skin Tightening:

   • Jen describes her positive experience with the "Clear and Brilliant" laser treatment and mentions options like Soft Wave and Ulthera for sagging jawlines.

   Jen Romolini:
   "I do think that is worth it from the people I know who have had it."
   [49:43]

2. Favorite Candy:

   • Kim shares her love for Nerds, Scummy Clusters, and sour candies.

   Kim France:
   "Nerd Scummy clusters by such a wide margin."
   [49:43]

   • Jen reveals a penchant for chocolate-covered items and an addiction to cough drops.

   Jen Romolini:
   "I love cough drops."
   [50:22]

3. Experiences with Menopause:

   • Both hosts open up about their perimenopausal journeys, discussing symptoms like heavy periods, fatigue, and emotional fluctuations.

   Jen Romolini:
   "I think that some of my depression was probably perimenopause caused."
   [51:29]

   Kim France:
   "I didn't have terrible symptoms. I didn't get terrible insomnia."
   [51:51]

4. End of Period and Menopause Insights:

   • Kim describes her gradual transition into menopause, noting fewer symptoms and reflecting on past mental health struggles exacerbated by hormonal changes.

   Kim France:
   "I had moments where I had a real big meltdown when we were going through like a lot of personal stuff of mine."
   [05:24]

---

Therapist Relationships and Boundaries ([27:05] - [30:16])

A discussion about the complexities of therapist-patient relationships ensues, with both hosts recounting challenging experiences and highlighting the importance of finding the right therapeutic fit.

Jen Romolini:
"I have had a therapist who had a patient who didn't want to be seen by anyone. [...] it wasn't like John Kennedy Jr."
[27:56]

Kim France:
"Therapists can be really weird. They can be really weird."
[28:53]

---

Personal Growth and Boundaries ([26:18] - [30:16])

Kim and Jen explore the evolution of setting boundaries in personal relationships, emphasizing the balance between supporting loved ones and maintaining self-protection.

Jen Romolini:
"I want to work on... not bowing out, showing up for a relationship that's difficult while still protecting myself."
[26:38]

Kim France:
"That's what getting older is. And understanding that about yourself."
[20:09]

---

Final Thoughts and Conclusion ([46:17] - [60:30])

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts reflect on societal expectations of women, particularly concerning aging and menopause. They challenge the notion of menopause being "sexy," emphasizing that it often feels anything but due to the physical and emotional toll it can take.

Kim France:
"I never wanted to be humiliated or dominated when I was powerful."
[44:45]

Jen Romolini:
"I didn't get terrible symptoms. [...] I think that some of my depression was probably perimenopause caused."
[51:29]

The episode concludes with a heartfelt acknowledgment of their shared experiences and the ongoing journey of self-discovery and empowerment in midlife.

---

Notable Quotes

• Jen Romolini on Relationship Growth ([05:37]):
  "We've really made a vow to each other that we would go through everything. And we have given, we have donated carloads of things."

• Kim France on Childhood Trauma ([22:34]):
  "You know, the person I was at 10 is the person I was at 18 is the person I was at 30 and 60."

• Jen Romolini on Heavy Menopause ([51:29]):
  "I think that some of my depression was probably perimenopause caused."

• Kim France on Cultural Identity ([18:01]):
  "She was an art patron. Anybody who lives in Houston knows about the Art Car Parade and the Orange Show."

• Jen Romolini on Cough Drops Addiction ([50:22]):
  "I love cough drops."

---

Conclusion

"Is Menopause Sexy?" serves as a nuanced exploration of midlife challenges and transformations. Through personal narratives and honest conversations, Kim France and Jen Romolini offer listeners a relatable and empowering perspective on navigating the complexities of aging, mental health, and societal expectations.

---

For more episodes, insights, and community discussions, visit Everything is Fine on Patreon, follow Kim France on Substack, and Jen Romolini on Substack. Join their private Facebook group for continued support and conversation.

Transcript

[Sleep Number Ad]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep number Smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep number does that too. Why choose a sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on the top selling i8 smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[Unknown Host]

Acast powers the World's best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Pace Case]

Hi, I'm Pace Case.

[Bachelor Clues]

And I'm Bachelor Clues.

[Pace Case]

We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast. We're covering every show on reality TV at the highest level possible. We we analyze the Bachelor, Love is Blind, Perfect Match, Vanderpump, and anything else you find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.

[Bachelor Clues]

We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make reality TV a sport. And we interview superstar players like Bachelorette Bristow and Big Brother champion Taylor Hale.

[Pace Case]

If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses.

[Unknown Host]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com hi everyone. Just a quick note before you get into this episode we recorded before the fire started in Los Angeles last week. I don't really think it changes the content of the episode, but I think I I who live in Los Angeles would have maybe been in a slightly different mood and feel in a slightly different mood after what happened last week. I've added to the show notes, places to donate and resources, local resources. If anyone's been impacted by the fires, we hope everyone is safe. Our hearts go out to everyone who's lost anything in these fires. It's really been devastating living here through this and and we haven't even been impacted as badly as not nearly as badly as everyone else. As many other people. Anyway, just wanted to say that, but here's the episode. Hopefully it makes people in LA laugh a little bit and I'm safe. Just to let everyone know, thank you.

[Kim France]

Hi and welcome to Everything Is Fine, a podcast for women over 40. We are your hosts. I'm Kim France.

[Unknown Host]

And I'm Jen Romolin.

[Kim France]

And you're in Packing Hell. Jen Romolini oh My God, it is.

[Unknown Host]

Fucking Boxville around here. It is also just like you're never in your life faced with like your, your gross and disgusting amount of over consumption. Like you are when you're packing. Like, so true. You're just like, why did I buy this shit? Like, I found just boxes of party supplies. I mean I like, what am I? Who am I? What do I think I am? Also the amount of like I figured out what's ruining the planet. And it is grandparents who don't know their grandchildren buying them stupid plastic shit.

[Kim France]

That's funny.

[Unknown Host]

There are so many bins of stupid plastic shit from like grandparents being like, it's St. Patrick's Day, here's a plastic tie.

[Kim France]

Like, very funny.

[Unknown Host]

Just like a horror of horrors. But I have to say, I will say this one thing. I am a person who thinks that I have the worst marriage in the world. Like I walk around being like, uh huh, this marriage. I'm like embarrassed to be with a man. Just like, whatever. But I have to say we haven't moved in 10 years, me and this man that I live with. And I'm really seeing the growth in our relationship, in us as people, our maturity. I mean, you'd fucking hope. I'm 51 and he's 47. But like, we are working together as a team in a way. Well, we just are not usually called to work together like this as a team. But we are working together as a team in such an efficient, machine like way. No arguments. Just like, yes, that's what we have to do. Yes. I'm in shock. I'm like, oh, maybe we are actually well suited to each other. Like, we are very complementary in terms of our skills in this situation. So I've been like, oh, like okay, I'm not a total idiot for staying in this partnership with a man, which I generally think that women should not do. Like, I love him, he's my very, very close friend and we're very good at this situation.

[Kim France]

To what do you think you can you owe this change?

[Unknown Host]

I mean, 10 years. We haven't moved in 10 years. Therapy for both of us. A lot of like self just maturity. I just think people get better as they get older. Like we've had moments in this where like I had one real big meltdown when we were going through like a lot of personal stuff of mine. Because you have to sort.

[Kim France]

You have to sort. I was about to say the one thing that fucks me up every time I move. And I've moved on average every three or four Years since I lived in New York, moved to New York is when you go through the photographs.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, the photographs, the cards, you know, the letters from friends, all the, like, ephemera and, like. But the thing is this. I have moved without doing that sorting, and I have found boxes. I've been in Los Angeles for 14 years. I don't know how many years, 13 years, I have found boxes that I had from Brooklyn. And I'm talking, like, unpacked from not even when I lived with Alex, like, when I lived alone. Like, we're just carrying around shit. And so we're not doing that anymore. We've really made a vow to each other that we would go through everything. And we have given. We have donated carloads of things.

[Kim France]

It's a good feeling, though. You know, I have, like. I have letters that people wrote me the summer after college. Like, do I need those?

[Unknown Host]

No, you don't. And I'm trying. I mean, look, I haven't. Photographs. We actually made a rule. Like, that's gonna slow us down. Let's put photos in one place, and at some point, we'll go through them together. Because if we take the time to go through these two boxes of photos, it's gonna take us, like, six hours, you know?

[Kim France]

It is. It is.

[Unknown Host]

And it's gonna be weird and distressing, and let's just not do it. So that stuff. We kind of put it. Yeah, we've been. We have a. We're carrying around a. Oh, my God. Why can't I think of the name of it? What is the thing you carry around that's hard surface? That has a clip. We have clipboard.

[Kim France]

Clipboard.

[Unknown Host]

We have a clipboard, a family clipboard of all the tasks. And it's like, is it on the clipboard? If it's not on the clipboard, it's not happening.

[Kim France]

Amazing. Amazing.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes, yes. But, yeah, it's intense. It's intense because it really. One thing I said to Alex was like, we have stuff that belongs to people that we no longer are.

[Kim France]

Right.

[Unknown Host]

And that's sort of the lens that I've been filtering everything. Clothes. Like, I just told you, I have a neighbor friend who's just went away to college, who's 20 and whatever. She is 19. I don't know how old she is. Doesn't matter. I was like, you can go through all of these clothes before I give them away. But then I'm giving them away, and I have. I mean, boxes and boxes of clothes I'm giving away that I will never wear again. I'm not the person I was even at 45, I'm not wearing these clothes.

[Kim France]

I'm not the person I was when I moved into this place four years ago.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. I'm not wearing these whimsical. Like, this is just. I mean, and then there's just the maturity thing of, like, am I gonna wear, like, a flutter sleeve dress again?

[Kim France]

Yeah, I know.

[Unknown Host]

Never. Ew.

[Kim France]

I know. I know. I've been going through some clothes. I've been going through things because Walden, my stepson, moved out. He got an apartment of his own, and so I've been going.

[Unknown Host]

Good for him.

[Kim France]

Good for him. He certainly did. A little studio apartment on the Upper west side.

[Unknown Host]

The dream. Oh, my God. Yay for him. Good.

[Kim France]

Yeah. So he's out. So I've been going through that extra room and going through clothes, and I'm like, why did this even make it on the last move?

[Unknown Host]

Why did I even buy this in the first place?

[Kim France]

Exactly.

[Unknown Host]

But then there's things, like, I have. Like, I have a pretty decent theory blazer that I've put in Goodwill and taken out and put in and taken out, like, three times. Because sometimes on very rare occasions, you need a blazer.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Am I going to rebuy a blazer? Like, I probably should. I don't especially love this theory blazer, but I also don't like buying blazers. Who wants to fucking wear? I don't. I have a life set up for blazers.

[Kim France]

I know. I feel the same way. I bought that jacket, that amazing tuxedo jacket to get married in, and then I didn't wear it to get married in because that's not the direction my outfit went in. I've worn it once.

[Unknown Host]

So disappointing.

[Kim France]

It's really disappointing.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, my God. I found dresses from the lucky days. I found dresses that you gave me that were yours that you were like, do you want this? I don't want this anymore. And I mean. And I was. They were great dresses. In 2004.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Like. Or eight. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It's like I'm carrying shit around for 20 years that I don't wear just because it's, quote, unquote nice.

[Kim France]

But the thing is, there's a bad. It's such a bad feeling when you get rid of something that you really ended up wanting, like, again, and you just. You don't fucking know what that thing is gonna be.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. But, like, I have this Marc Jacobs confetti dress, and it was actually. I don't know if Alex asked me to marry When I was. Whatever. It's a dress I was wearing during a significant time in my life.

[Kim France]

I love that you can't remember what that significant time was.

[Unknown Host]

I think I was wearing. No, I know it was. I wore it the night I told him I was pregnant. That's what it was. Okay. But I'll never wear it again. It's a juvenile dress. Just because it's Marc Jacobs, it's a juvenile dress. I gave it to a friend's daughter, and I gave it to a friend's daughter, and I don't think she really liked it. And I was, like, very disappointed in that.

[Kim France]

I think I still have somewhere in my collection of clothes the dress I wore to Lucky's launch party.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes, yes. Like a museum. Yeah, yeah.

[Kim France]

That's closed. Museum. I'll never wear it again. But it has some historical significance for me.

[Unknown Host]

I have my wedding dress, which I should really get the fuck rid of because I don't know if you know this about my wedding dress, but I had this beautiful little Narciso Rodriguez shift dress. It had, like, an exposed zipper in the back and a little cape. It like a wool top. I mean, it was a beautiful, beautiful dress. I kept it immaculate the entire day, which is amazing for me. And as I was leaving our wedding, the bar, somebody had a full glass of red wine on the bar, and I went to grab my clutch and I splashed the red wine all over my dress. And I'm carrying around this red wine stained shift. Like, I don't. What am I doing? I've talked about dyeing it for years.

[Kim France]

I know. And, and, and, but it' I think you get to be stupidly sentimental about some things.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. I mean, that dress, that just is, like, a shame dress, though, at this point. Like, who wants a stain? Who wants a stain? Like, I'm drunk. You know what I mean? Like, who wants that?

[Kim France]

But it was your wedding dress. It was your wedding dress, you know, And I kind of like that it's stained because you're never gonna wear your wedding dress again, in any case, and you might as well have it be a real souvenir of the evening as it went down.

[Unknown Host]

That's true. That's true. I also. I saved my shoes, too. But it is. It is really profound because I think that we are emotionally, psychologically shedding old selves all the time, especially in middle age. And it is really profound to physically shed and be like, no, that doesn't. I don't need that. I had aspirations that I was going to have 40 dinner parties. And so I needed, you know, 100 plates, but I hate all these plates.

[Kim France]

Yeah. It's goodbye. Yeah, no, I think. For sure. For sure. You realize who you are and not who you haven't let go of wanting to be.

[Unknown Host]

Wow. Yes. Nicely put.

[Kim France]

Thank you.

[Unknown Host]

Really well done.

[Kim France]

Thank you.

[Unknown Host]

So how was your break?

[Kim France]

Oh, it was fine. You know, those days between Christmas and New Year's are just such weird days. Like, I can never remember what day of the week it is or how much longer break I have. And you sort of go into this weird fugue state during that week of the break.

[Unknown Host]

Yes.

[Kim France]

And we talked about how maybe next year. I love that I don't have to travel with the holidays, but we talked about next year maybe going somewhere for that weekend between Christmas and New Year's.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, you could do it. And it's. I think it's, you know, I. It's a great time to be away. Except that everything is 400 times more expensive.

[Kim France]

I know.

[Unknown Host]

And the airports are hell, like, and travel is hell. That's. This is the same quandary we have every year. And. But it's. It's bad.

[Kim France]

I know, I know, I know, I know. But my brother and his wife flew to LA on Christmas Day.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, Christmas Day is actually a good day to fly.

[Kim France]

Yeah, it can be. It can be.

[Unknown Host]

If you don't care about Christmas, it's great.

[Kim France]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. But you know, I don't. My holidays are always kind of a quiet time. I don't observe Christmas. I don't really observe Hanukkah. You know, it's just kind of a time I used to really hate the holidays and it was a very lonely time of year for me. I don't hate them anymore, but they're still not my favorite time of year.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I liked them less this year, but I think it's because of being in this like, liminal space. Although I will say I had the best time in New York for those. I was in New York for three days and we saw each other, but sharing a bunk bed room at the Ace hotel with my 14 year old was really just top notch, really fun.

[Kim France]

And can I just say, we spent some time together with you and your 14 year old and I was gonna say this off air, but I'll say it on. You're such a good fucking mother to that kid.

[Unknown Host]

Oh my God, thank you. Thank you.

[Kim France]

No, but you really are.

[Unknown Host]

You really are.

[Kim France]

And you deal with what comes up the pike really calmly. And I was Just like. I just thought I need to tell you that because I know you don't always feel that way, but I thought you just seem like a really incredible mother to that kid.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, God, thank you. Thank you. I try really, really hard. That is the thing I probably try hardest at. No. And my kid's a complicated kid. Just not the easiest person. Neither am I. Neither's my husband. And I really tried to give them things that they were really excited about, like the snow. They were so, like, I took them to Prospect park and there was snow, and they were just like, this is amazing. And, you know, food that they wanted. And we had a good time sort of traipsing around New York together. We really. We really had a good time. And, you know, it was.

[Kim France]

It's.

[Unknown Host]

It's nice because how much. How much longer am I going to have a kid who will spend that much time with me?

[Kim France]

Yeah. You know, those are the years, you.

[Unknown Host]

Know, like, it'll come, I think, later. By the way, out of nowhere, I feel like my accent is coming back. I have been fillying so much like whom I've been. It's been coming out and I have no idea why. Like, I wonder if it's like my. This is just it. Like, it's going to. All the accent that I fought to shake is going to come back.

[Kim France]

That's funny.

[Unknown Host]

I don't know, like. Like a brain injury or something.

[Kim France]

It's the east coast calling you home.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, yes, I. I was in Baltimore, which is hun country. Hun, how you doing, hon? How you doing? And I was just like, I love Han country. This is what is home to me. Like, I forgot that Baltimore also has a lot of Italian Americans in it. And you get a certain. Like, my sister and I were picking up seven fish, feast of the seven fishes, seafood at, like, this Baltimore seafood shop. And it was just all people picking up the same bacala that we were. And like, I was. I just have a cultural identity that I miss being a part of, you know?

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

So, yeah, I love Baltimore. I fucking love Baltimore. I can't like. And I even got my husband on board this time.

[Kim France]

Amazing.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

Speaking of cultural identities, I am traveling to the place of my birth tomorrow. Houston, Texas.

[Unknown Host]

That's right. How do you feel about it?

[Kim France]

I've got a memorial service and it's for my mom's friend Marilyn. And Marilyn was one of these people who I just admired so much. A really unusual and just one of those people who in my childhood made me feel like if I Ended up weird. That was gonna be okay.

[Unknown Host]

Yes. Yes.

[Kim France]

She was an art patron. Anybody who lives in Houston knows about the Art Car Parade and the Orange Show. These are both art things that she really was responsible for. But she, like, she collected art, and she didn't really ever care about what was trendy. She only wanted what she loved.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

And so she bought two Frida Kahlo self portraits in the 1970s. Wow. When Frida Kahlo was still under known.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kim France]

She just had this amazing eye, and she just. I think, you know, we always had a really nice connection. And, you know, I always talk about how I never cry, but I don't ever cry. And when her daughter called to tell me she died, I just burst into tears.

[Unknown Host]

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. That's recent. She died recently.

[Kim France]

She died recently. She died last week or the week before. Yeah. So we're going down to the memorial service, and Houston is literally. And I say this, you know, I'm sorry if I offend people who live there now. The most triggering place on Earth for me. Just absolutely the most triggering place on Earth. I haven't been there in probably 15 years. There's nobody really left to see there. My grandparents are dead. My father's dead. And so I'm making Paul come with me.

[Unknown Host]

Good. Good.

[Kim France]

Yes. Because my mom can't travel alone. And so I told her I would, you know, before Marilyn died, when it looked like that was happening, I said, I'll come with you for the service. And she's like, oh, I thought it would be a nice mother daughter trip. And I was like, mom, I'll be so much nicer to you if Paul is there.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Yeah. You need that support. And see, that's. That's what getting older is. And understanding that about yourself.

[Kim France]

Yep, Yep. And not just traveling down there on my own with my mom and being triggered every 10 seconds by everything my mom's gonna say and do.

[Unknown Host]

Just dysregulated the whole time. It would be.

[Kim France]

Seriously. And I'm probably gonna be pretty dysregulated the whole time anyway.

[Unknown Host]

Totally.

[Kim France]

It's just, you know, there's just. I. And it makes me wonder, like, do you ever get over your shit? Do you ever get over your shit from your childhood? If a place that I left when I was 16 years old can still be left when I was 16 years old and never spent much time in again, you know how that can still cause me to be so dysregulated?

[Unknown Host]

I mean, listen, I don't I think about this all the time. I've been thinking about it a lot recently because, you know, I'm back in therapy. I'm so fucking over my story. I'm so over talking about it. I'm just like, and, you know, new therapist. So I have to give the groundwork again, like, this one and this memory and this. And this is a big thing I'm focusing on. Like, I just want to not feel so shaky in these situations in the world generally, but in these situations specifically, like around my family, when I'm triggered, et cetera, et cetera, like, when is that going to come? And, you know, she's, I really like this therapist because she's not dramatic. My last therapist was, you know, like, very much like, oh, well, that is terrible. And this person's like, that's just, this is just life. And this is what life is with a mother sometimes. And, you know, here are the facts and how do we deal with the facts? But, you know, I heard my mother's voice at Christmas, and I, I, I, I was, I was five. I was nine. I was 13, I was 17. I was everything. I was angry. I felt like crying, I couldn't breathe. I, you know, like, it's the sound of her voice. Like, I'm afraid of her. I'm 51. I'm, like, afraid of her. It's, like, crazy. It's crazy. Why?

[Kim France]

Why? Because we're, because even though we grow up and even though we change and even though we mature, we are still. Our essence is still the same.

[Unknown Host]

Yes.

[Kim France]

You know, the thing. The person I was at 10 is the person I was at 18 is the person I was at 30 and 60.

[Unknown Host]

Yes. And a shaky foundation, especially, you know, you and I with some, whatever we have going on, mental illness wise, but like an unstable foundation. I don't know if you can ever fully build that. You can have strategies, you know, boundaries and. Okay, I know what to do when I'm feeling triggered. I can, I can be present for this instead of, like, checking out and disassociating. You could start to understand yourself, but you can't rebuild the foundation of safety that you really need to be a stable person.

[Kim France]

And the older I get, not that I dwell on it that much, but the older I get, the more I realize how unsafe I felt as a kid in so many different ways.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes.

[Kim France]

You know, that, you know, kids weren't nice to me, you know, and I still feel that, like, you know, that feeling of being disliked, you know, and.

[Unknown Host]

Not being tended to not having somebody, like, really be like, oh, like mirroring back your feelings so that you knew your feelings were okay. You know what, you know, what I hear from you right now is that you're feeling this. Oh, you know, just understanding that you. That the experiences you were having and the intense feelings you were having were normal. There were normal reactions as a sensitive person.

[Kim France]

You know, my house was back in the woods and every night I fell asleep and I was scared that someone was going to come out of the woods and come in my window every single night. I was terrified. And I never told my parents.

[Unknown Host]

I. Similarly, while we lived next to a dive bar and in Southwest Philly. And similarly, every night I was terrified. Like I had. I thought they were going to climb the wires. Like the men, the gross men were going to climb the wires and go into my room and I, you know, I wrote about this in my book. I used to pull all the covers and the comforter over my head and then with my arm come out and put the stuffed animals over myself so that it looked like at some point if my kid was doing this, I would notice.

[Kim France]

Yes, there was, it was, you know, it was the 70s. It was the 80s.

[Unknown Host]

It was the 70s. It WAS a different, it was a different time. Parenting was different. Parenting was frankly a lot easier.

[Kim France]

Well, it was a lot easier because it required an awful lot less effort.

[Unknown Host]

That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. No, no, it's. Yeah. I talked to AJ Delario about this a little bit on his podcast. Like, just like the extreme neglect. Like the extreme neglect. Like, you know, it's intense.

[Kim France]

It's intense. And my mom will always say, oh, it was benign neglect. And my sister in law, who works defending the family, the foster families and foster children says there is no such thing as benign neglect. Neglect is neglect.

[Unknown Host]

Neglect is neglect. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I mean, look, I'm working on. I can feel that I've even going into this therapist from the last therapist. I've grown, I've changed, I'm less shaky than I used to be. So I think that that's what you hope for. Like, you know, that this trip with your mom is going to be difficult. So you're bringing somebody who feels safe and supportive with you. Like, you would not have done that 10 years ago, necessarily.

[Kim France]

No, well, 10 years ago I wouldn't have offered to take the trip with my mom.

[Unknown Host]

Right, right, right, right. You would have just bowed out, which is a thing I want to work on. Not doing anymore. How do I. How can I show up for a relationship that's difficult while still protecting myself is a. Is a thing I've been thinking about a lot.

[Kim France]

Yeah, no, it can be done.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, it can. Because once you. The first time you learn boundaries, it's like they can be kind of extreme, and you. You might want to soften them a little to get to have, you know, people in your life and, you know, to have clean relationships. I don't know, man.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I don't know either.

[Unknown Host]

Two people who've been in therapy for fucking collectively, ever and ever and. Exactly.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God. I have so many. I've had so many therapists, I can't even remember all their names.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, my God. I same. I've had so many therapists, and, like, some were really bad.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God. My psychopharmacologist from when I was, like, in my late 30s, early 40s. I should have known his address. I won't say the avenue, but the street address was 6. 6. 6. I. To God. 666.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, my God. I had a therapist who wouldn't let me drink in during the session. Like, wouldn't let me have, like, a cup of coffee or a glass of water during the session because it was like. And would scold me if I brought one in because it was, you know, I wasn't open. I was blocking with the beverage.

[Kim France]

Oh, please.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah. Fuck you.

[Kim France]

Oh, that is so stupid. I had a therapist who had a patient who didn't want to be seen by anyone. So if you had an appointment with her and this person was in with her, she'd come out and say, I'm sorry, the patient who doesn't want to be seen is here. So I was like, is this person famous? Like, this is really an inconvenience when it's cold out. Like, is it at least like, John Kennedy Jr. Or something? Incident. Interesting. It wasn't.

[Unknown Host]

No. I. I think my therapists have gotten less crazy as I've gotten less crazy. Like, this therapist I have now is. Is really sane, really calm, just like a. A cool customer. And I have had really fucked up relationships with therapists over the years. Like, codependent, weird relationships with therapists.

[Kim France]

Well, therapists can be weird.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, of course.

[Kim France]

Therapists can be really weird. They can. And, like, so much of, like, straightforward or even, like, just inspired by Freudian psychology can just be so annoying.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes.

[Kim France]

You know, like when you ask the shrink a question about themselves, God forbid, and they say, well, why do you want to know that.

[Unknown Host]

Oh God. But I mean that's typical. That's like, that's all of them. They all do that. They all do that. And of course the whole time you're like, you're scanning them for clues about their life. This new therapist dresses really well. Like she's got incredible style. She's got very like artsy style. And I keep wanting to be like, where are your shoes from?

[Kim France]

That's funny. I've never had a really stylish therapist. I mean my therapist now is neither stylish nor unstylish.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah. I've usually had older people and this person is a peer. Although, no, I've had one stylist, I've had one therapist who was my age who dressed horribly. But you know, whatever. It's like no judgment, but kind of judgment.

[Kim France]

But I had a therapist who dressed horribly and she was a genius, but I never, I really think she was a genius, but I could never totally trust her.

[Unknown Host]

That's our own shit. That's our own.

[Kim France]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Host]

That is both of our shit. Because I feel, I feel a little bit the same way. But like that is our own. Like that is just, that is women's magazines. Like that has just fucked us all up. Because I think that if we had not worked at Conde Naz, neither of us would have that feeling.

[Kim France]

Possibly.

[Unknown Host]

Maybe I would.

[Kim France]

Maybe a little bit.

[Unknown Host]

Maybe, maybe, maybe. Let's take a quick break from some ads. Support for Everything is Fine comes from Ritual. Did you know that in the winter time your skin tends to dry out? Of course you knew. That is a tough time retaining moisture. Even if you're keeping up a big multiple step skin care routine, your skin gets drier. It looks a little crepier, a little more wrinkly. Well, with Ritual's Hyac skin supplement you can actually, actually help fight that dryness. It's a clinically proven way to support skin hydration with science backed benefits like reducing wrinkles and improving skin smoothness. I love ritual. I've been using Ritual for years now. I use their multivitamin, I use their melatonin and I use hair, which I find is a really easy thing to add to my routine. The they taste good. Hia Sarah. Tastes good. It doesn't smell bad. It's aesthetically pleasing. Pleasing packaging. I, I think that these are just stellar supplements. Hyacinth itself in a clinical study led to a 2.9 time increase in skin smoothness within 90 days as compared to a placebo. So you could enhance your skin care routine from the inside out with one capsule enhanced with soothing vanilla as well. So there's definitely some vanilla in there. It's also rigorously tested and validated by a third party for allergens, microbes and heavy metals. Ritual works with world class certification bodies to validate their products and they they have industry leading sustainability standards which I really love. So start Hyacra today to support your glow without compromising on clean science. Hyac from Ritual is a clinically proven skin supplement you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month for a limited [e-mail] fine that's ritual.com fine for 25% off your first month.

[Sleep Number Ad]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on the top selling i8 smart bed. Your best savings plus special financing limited time. Shop a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[Unknown Host]

And we're back. What else is happening?

[Kim France]

I saw Enora.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, I saw Anora too.

[Kim France]

What'd you think?

[Unknown Host]

I mostly loved it. I mean, I thought it was. I thought it was artistically, like, I thought it was actually a really good and interesting movie. Like, I thought the plot was really interesting. I thought it was really original. I thought she, she did kind of an amazing thing. I thought it was really like a journey of a lady I thought was cool. It was unexpected. I'm a little bit like, do I need to see women being like fucked up and abused this much? And also, why didn't. Why didn't she. There was. I'm not going to get into spoilers, but I. There's a moment where I was like, I feel like she could have left this situation.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

You know?

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

But I mostly liked it. Yeah.

[Kim France]

No, I felt the same. I felt it was an imperfect movie. I felt like the editing was sort of like a mess, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I love her so much. I've loved her since she was on better things.

[Unknown Host]

Yes. Yes. I love her so much. And I won't give anything away, but I thought the final scene encapsulated so much about what it is to be female on this planet and like the rage, the sadness, the. Just everything. I thought the final scene was pretty amazing to watch.

[Kim France]

Yeah, it was. It really was.

[Unknown Host]

And I thought he was great. Yeah, this, the guard guy. I thought he was really incredible. But it's interesting. It's a really interesting. It's an interesting movie about, you know, class and female rage and sex and. But also just like falling for. Like falling for the lines that men give you when you're young and pretty, you know, and all they want you for is sex. And you don't know that you can't. Because if you fully let that absorb in your brain. It's such a cynical way of being alive, but it's also the fucking truth. They just want to fuck you half the time.

[Kim France]

Yep. It's true.

[Unknown Host]

Or more than half.

[Kim France]

It's true. And they're capable, you know, they're capable of being soft boys, you know, giving you a little bit of affection, giving you a little bit of intimacy.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah. But really not being. Not being present in the way that you're present. And that's. It's exactly how I've been hurt a million times. You know, like thinking somebody was into me. But, you know, they. They really were not into me.

[Kim France]

Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen Baby Girl yet.

[Unknown Host]

Me neither. I meant to see it and I didn't see it. I haven't seen Baby Girl. I saw. Oh, God. It's got that long name. Something at the end of the world. I can't remember it. I'm sorry. But it was fantastic. It's my favorite movie of the year. I should probably look it up. Sorry. Natalie. I'm going to look at this. Highly recommend. It's a foreign movie. What is it called? Oh, I can't fucking remember. I can't remember. I was totally lost. But it's a very at home at.

[Kim France]

The end of the world.

[Unknown Host]

No, it's probably not even at the end of the world. This is horrible. This is a horrible nightmare. This is a horrible. This is a horrible nightmare of forgetting that I'm never. I'm never gonna. I'm never gonna remember. I want. I still wanna see the Brutalist. Oh, did you watch the Golden Globes?

[Kim France]

I did not. Did you?

[Unknown Host]

I did. I did. I watched some of it. I watched some of it and I had. I had feelings.

[Kim France]

Tell me about it.

[Unknown Host]

I feel like everyone's too skinny.

[Kim France]

Everyone is too skinny. I thought Nicole Kidman was wearing a remarkable dress. I thought she looked amazing. And then I saw her from a certain angle and I was Like, Jesus Christ.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, I really felt like everybody was too skinny. And I also felt like, you know, Demi Moore, I'm still struggling with that. You know, I'm still struggling with, you know, oh, this is so amazing that she was so brave because, you know, she's an older woman, and when she looks like she's four.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I'm just, like, really struggling to wrap my head around this being progress.

[Kim France]

It's not progress, and it's not necessarily brave, but it's the state of things.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. And I don't think you're supposed to say this, but I thought Margot Crawley was better in that movie than her.

[Kim France]

She wasn't that great. You know, I didn't like that movie. I don't think she deserved an award for that movie. But it was one of those, you know, things where it's like, oh, Demi Moore, she's never been awarded for anything.

[Unknown Host]

Yes.

[Kim France]

You know, and so it's a career award more than an award for that movie.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Kim France]

Because, yeah, I don't think that movie was feminist. I don't. I didn't like it at all.

[Unknown Host]

I just, you know, I get that. I get what they were doing, and I've been. I've thought about it since. But, like, the idea that we have that, you know, that the older version of her doesn't do anything except watch TV and eat because she's so depressed because she's old. It was just like, get the fuck out of here. That's a failure of imagination. Oh, here it is. Do not expect too much from the end of the world. That's the movie. That is the movie, and it is great, and I think everybody should watch it. Kim, you would love this movie. It's really, really, really fun and really, really, really interesting and wonderful. Okay, My favorite moment in the Golden Globes, the best moment I was guffawing, is Jeremy Strong losing best actor to Kieran Culkin while wearing this ridiculous hat.

[Kim France]

Ridiculous hat.

[Unknown Host]

Ridiculous hat. And he has the saltiest, sourest eldest boy. Like, he was like, he. And it's like. It's just so Succession. Like, it's like the sequel to Succession playing out is watching the two of them in this, like, awards race. Like, nobody wants to think about Jeremy Strong's stupid fucking Trump movie. Like, nobody wants to think about it. They don't want to. They don't want to interview him about it. Because none of us want to think about fucking Trump.

[Kim France]

No, it's true. And plus, Kieran Culkin is just so goddamn likable.

[Unknown Host]

He's so likable and he's really. I don't know if that, if a real pain is like, it's such a quiet small movie. Like I can't believe it's being blown up like this. But his performance in it is impeccable and he's such a natural actor and you know, he's been doing this for so long and he's got some legacy there. Like Hollywood loves a story. Like he's gonna keep getting awards, you know, like. And Jeremy Strong, they don't really love his story.

[Kim France]

Well, no, Jeremy Strong is not even the least bit likable.

[Unknown Host]

No, he's just. Maybe he is, maybe he's lovable. But his self seriousness is just, it's oppressive. It's like just too much. It's too much.

[Kim France]

And it's like you won the lottery. You get to be in Hollywood making TV shows and movies. You won the lottery. Are you, are you going to also subject us to all your bullshit? Like have some grace, we don't care.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, I do love his fits. I'm just like, I'm really enjoying watching him wild out because how often does that happen in the world that you really just see somebody be like, yeah, I'm going to wear a mint green suit with a white turtleneck and this like ridiculous hat. Like this ridiculous bucket hat. Like is it. Was it felt, was it fuzzy? Was it boucle? What was it? I love him. And like I rewatched that reaction like three times and just was just crying of laughter because at least feign graciousness.

[Kim France]

Yes. That's hilarious. I mean, in a way it's kind of great that he didn't.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, yeah. That's what Alex said. Alex was like, I kind of like that. He's just exactly himself.

[Kim France]

Yeah. I mean everybody claps and smiles when they lose. It's kind of cool for somebody to be like, yeah, I, I earned it.

[Unknown Host]

Why didn't I get it right? Sulking, Sulking. Oh my God, it's so good. Yeah, it is. It is a weird time to be a middle aged post 40 woman, post 50 woman with how we're treating post. I haven't seen Baby Girl, but it's just like, is menopause sexy?

[Kim France]

I know, I know. It's too much. It's too much. Is it so is it just so like it must really be. I can't talk about it cause I haven't seen it. But what about it could be as shocking and outre as everybody is making it out to be?

[Unknown Host]

I Think what's shocking. And I think it's the same with the Miranda July book. I think that we are so repressed as a society, and especially as women. We are just so repressed. Right. So it's like people are reading the All Fours book and they're like, wow, I just didn't allow myself to think that I might want to fuck somebody else. Like, I really think this is what's happening. That it's like people have these deeply, deeply secret desires that they have never explored because of shame, because of, you know. You know, just the world that we Americans live in. That this feels revolutionary and radical. Like, even all this female rage that we keep. I'm like, I've been pissed for since birth. Like, are we not like. Like, I. How is this in any way revolutionary to be so angry and aggressive? Like, I think all women are like this, but maybe they're not.

[Kim France]

Maybe they're not. Maybe there just haven't been enough representations of it. So it feels really revolutionary.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, maybe that is what it is. But, yeah, we should both see Baby Girl so we can talk about it instead of this. But my friend Glynis was like, I wish Gwyneth Paltrow had played that role. And I thought that was so interesting because she was like, gwyneth Paltrow posts photos of herself naked every year. Is a person who seems to have a lot of agency in a way that Nicole Kidman does not. And I thought that was really interesting to think about somebody who is actually a really. Well, not that Nicole Kidman isn't, but somebody who you really imagine is a very powerful person being dominated. Not somebody who you think of as being kind of gentle and, you know, just quieter. Being dominated.

[Kim France]

That's really true. That's a really good point. Yeah. Because Nicole Kidman doesn't ever really telegraph that way.

[Unknown Host]

No, I would like to see. Yes, but I mean, again, I need to see this movie. But, like, the Domination, isn't that everybody's fucking fantasy?

[Kim France]

It's also kind of. I mean, it is also a cliche. I mean, they've said that for, like, the powerful women and powerful men want to be humiliated and dominated.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes.

[Kim France]

I never. When I was powerful, I never wanted to be humiliated or dominated. No judgment.

[Unknown Host]

Not humiliated. But, like, you know, there was this. Remember the show together? It was Mark Duplass and Melanie Linsky. I loved that show. I thought it. Well, it had some problems, but I thought it got so many things right, including what I think is probably like to have an affair. Like the Immediate regret when you're having an affair in a pretty good marriage, but you're just bored and you. She's gone. Like she, she finishes having sex with, she has an affair and she finishes having sex with him and the guy she cheats on her husband with. And like, you just see her face just be like, fuck, that was not worth it. But what she says before that she's totally bored sexually. And what she says is that he puts a pillow down before they have sex. Like an extra pillow for her head. And it's just this drives her fucking, fucking crazy because she was like, I don't want that much consideration. I just want you to me. I don't want this to be like tender and gentle all the time. And I thought that was that really. Got it. Something that is problematic in loving long term relationships that you lose that, like that like animal, like that feral feeling. Right?

[Kim France]

Yep, yep. It's true.

[Unknown Host]

So, yes, we both have to watch this movie instead of just being like.

[Kim France]

Talking about it without having. Criticizing it without having actually seen it.

[Unknown Host]

Talking shit about, well, talking shit really about the discourse. Honestly.

[Kim France]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there is something I find, like when you said, you know, is menopause sexy? Like, no. Like, why? No, Nothing about it is sexy even in the least. In fact, the opposite.

[Unknown Host]

Yes.

[Kim France]

Can we talk? Can we have a slightly more sophisticated conversation about this movie?

[Unknown Host]

Yes. Is men? No, but that's because it's like, it's like women over 50 still hot. You know, it's just like, that's what's revolutionary. But like, I don't know, I want to see more Kristin Scott Thomas's just sort of style. I want to see more like Kristin Scott Thomas in Fleabag. You know, just like talking about feeling like totally embodied and powerful and oh, by the way, I'm watching Slow Horses. Have you watched Slow Horses?

[Kim France]

You know what? I'm gonna watch it. But it's one of those shows I'm going to have to watch with the closed captioning on because I can't understand what anyone's saying.

[Unknown Host]

You know what? No problem with that. And you absolutely should. I'm on season three already. I would love it.

[Kim France]

Wow.

[Unknown Host]

It's not like great. It's just like, it's a perfect show to watch if you don't really want to be thinking, if you want to shut your brain off and like you're living in a house of boxes and you just want to like zone out to something that's going to keep your attention but not make you have to Think too much.

[Kim France]

Yeah. We've been watching Severance in anticipation of it coming back.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, yeah. That's a. It's an intense show.

[Kim France]

It is intense. It's intense. And it gets, like. It gets the, like, bummerness of upstate New York. Exactly. Right?

[Unknown Host]

Oh, wow. I thought you were gonna say the bummerness of work.

[Kim France]

Well, that, too, but it's like. It's filmed upstate, I think, and it just. It gets that. And it's always winter.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right.

[Kim France]

It's just always winter in severance land. And I think it gets the mood of, like. What's a bummer about upstate New York in the winter? Really? Right.

[Unknown Host]

Would you care to do a couple of. Do you have anything else on your list? I have nothing else on my list.

[Kim France]

I don't even think I had a list.

[Unknown Host]

I don't have. I didn't have a list either. I just said I didn't have anything else on my list. But that's. Do you. I think we might have a couple of listener questions. Would you like.

[Kim France]

We do.

[Unknown Host]

Okay. Should we answer them?

[Kim France]

Yes.

[Unknown Host]

Okay. Thoughts on laser resurfacing on the face. The before and after pics look great, but the procedure is expensive. Is it worth it? Also, what can be done about budding jowls and general sagging jawline? Can lasers tighten this up? I have not had laser resurfacing, but I do think that is worth it from the people I know who have had it. I have had a clear and brilliant. Which I guess is kind of a laser resurfacing, which is a lighter one. And it tends to be pretty inexpensive, like $500. And that actually did a lot for, like, my skin tone and the texture of my skin and, like, you know, sort of relieving me of some discoloration in terms of budding jowls and general sagging jawline. There's something called soft wave that's supposed to be really good for that. And Ulthera, I think, is supposed to. I know Ulthera is supposed to be good for that. I had Ulthera years ago. It's very painful, but it did tighten everything up for about two years. Do you have anything to add?

[Kim France]

Nothing. Nothing on this topic.

[Unknown Host]

Okay.

[Kim France]

Favorite candy, Nerd Scummy clusters by such a wide margin. And I am a lover of candy. I don't like desserts. I don't really like chocolate that much. I love, like, any sour candy. And nerd scummy clusters are, like. I can't even describe to you how Delicious. They are.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. That is not. That is not. I'm not that kind of. I am. If I'm anything, I'm like a chocolate covered anything person. Like just cover a nut with chocolate. Cover a date which cover anything with chocolate. I like chocolate covered things, but mostly I'm addicted to cough drops.

[Kim France]

Really? That's so boring.

[Unknown Host]

I know. It's so boring. I'm so addicted to cough drops. I probably have like four forty a day. Not forty, but I probably have at least five. Because they're really good if you're stoned for dry mouth and they're just really good for dry mouth generally. Like, I should just be having hard candies. I don't need all the menthol and everything. But I love them. I love cough drops.

[Kim France]

Wow.

[Unknown Host]

I know, it's gross. I'm probably gonna have a billion cavities. Okay. Oh, this is a really good question. Can you talk about the end of your period and what that looked like? Like, I'm 47 and mine has been insane. And I'm just looking for others perspective as I venture to guess what to expect with mine.

[Kim France]

Huh. Mine just kind of stopped then, you know, I would travel and it would come back. It came back twice while I was traveling. But it, you know, I didn't, I didn't get terrible symptoms. You know, horrible insomnia. Terrible, terrible insomnia. You know, I think in retrospect some of my depression was probably perimenopause caused.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, yes. Totally, totally. Right. Exacerbates whatever's going on in your brain already. Just makes it 10, like so much worse.

[Kim France]

Yeah. So I think I dealt with a lot of that, but I never had a lot of hot flashes. I didn't go through a period when I thought, like, oh my God, my body is not my own. And then one day I just realized I hadn't had my period for a year.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, yeah, you had the. Okay, I had the opposite listeners. I had every. I had every horrible. Like, I feel like we're. That sketch right now where like the snl, like alien sketch, like the aliens took you and they were wonderful to you. And the aliens took me and they like poked me in the ass and like, you know, fucking nightmare. Kate McKinnon. Anyway, I had the worst perimenopause. I had everything. Hair loss, burning, tongue, like just muscle aches. But specifically about my period. So first my periods around my late 40s, so around 47, started getting very heavy. And then I would sometimes have them every three weeks for like six months. I think that went on. Then I would get them every three months for a while. Then eventually they just started petering out. And then it took a while for me to be fully in menopause. Like I would be like, oh God, it's been eight months. Great, I'm almost out. Because after a year you're completely out, they say. And I would be like, oh great, it's been eight months, I'm out. And then, same as you. I would get a period while I was traveling a lot and then eventually they came further and further and further apart. And then I got the last one like one August and then that was it. And now it's been a couple of years. But the beginning is like heavy duty period. And this isn't for everybody, but really can be crazy heavy. And then. And you can get them, you can get a lot of periods in a row. Like that's totally normal. And then sometimes you can get a heavy period every three months. Like it's just going to become very crazy until it levels out for some people.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Heavy shoes for air travel, I. E. Active shoes that aren't just clumpy sneakers that make monochromatic outfits look like cruise wear. You're going to be good at this.

[Kim France]

No, I'm terrible at this. I was just going to say sneakers. Sneakers are what I wear all the time.

[Unknown Host]

I have a pair of lightweight lug sole ankle boots. They're very lightweight actually. So they're like, they're like, they feel nice to walk in, but they have like a sturdy grip on the bottom and they are really comfortable. And I, I like to wear, I like to wear ankle boots on the plane.

[Kim France]

Yeah. You know, I'm really torn since I'm going on the plane tomorrow between bringing ankle boots or wearing ankle boots on the plane or wearing sneakers and then having ankle boots or sneakers for the trip.

[Unknown Host]

Right, right. I just don't like to wear sneakers on a plane. I don't know why I just don't wear sneakers on a plane. Maybe cause I don't like any of my sneakers that much. But I always wear ankle boots and I have this particular lightweight pair that they're really good to travel. Can you tell us about your worst celebrity experience? Kim has mentioned something about a JLO interview. Was that your worst one?

[Kim France]

I think JLO was my worst one. It was my worst one and also my last one. So it could be that I remember it, you know, so, so negatively because it was the last celebrity interview. But she was just, she didn't treat me. I Mean, we, you know, I was not a movie star and I was, you know, wasn't a pop star, but she didn't treat me as an equal somehow. Yeah, yeah, you know, she didn't, you know, she treated me as less than her in a way that I found really disturbing. And I just found her entourage, you know, the people she chose to spend time around, to be, I don't know, she just, she, she didn't, she didn't seem like a girl's girl. She just, she wasn't my type of person.

[Unknown Host]

She didn't treat me like a person.

[Kim France]

Yeah, she didn't treat me like a person. She treated me like a, you know, I could have been any one of a million people who'd interviewed her. I'm sure it's a pain in the ass to get interviewed after a while, but you are sitting across from an actual human being.

[Unknown Host]

I've heard many bad things about her. I've heard. I mean, you know, outside my obsession with the. Her relationship with Ben Affleck and the two of them, I've heard many bad things about her as a celebrity. Like, you know, just treating waitresses terrible. Like, you know, just not, just not a, just not a good, good person in the world.

[Kim France]

Not a good person. Like. And also there were the stories that Ben would give big tips when they went out places and she would take the cash back.

[Unknown Host]

I mean, who knows? Who knows? Um, my worst, I have two worst, but one is very unexpected. My worst one was Avril Lavigne, who was just an asshole. And no offense to Avril Lavigne, maybe she's nice now, but also Alex had interviewed her twice, so. And we collectively have now interviewed her three times. And both of us were just like, that is the worst person I've ever interviewed.

[Kim France]

Some people are just bad celebrities.

[Unknown Host]

Just as shitty. She was shitty. She was not non compliant. It's like, I'm not doing this for my fucking health. Like, this is to promote your bullshit, you know?

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

But then surprisingly horrible, which was very upsetting to me because of Gilmore Girls. And like, everybody would think that she was so wonderful was Alexis Bledel. She was a real pain in the ass to interview. Just really snippy and bitchy and just really difficult. Difficult. Just really difficult. And I was just like, come on, man, just give me, give me 10 minutes of just normalcy here instead of being such a. She was really just a surprising bitch. And I was, I was, I was sad. I was sad to meet a surprising bitch.

[Kim France]

I had heard that she was a surprising Bitch. So I'm not. I'm not totally surprised by that.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, no, it was a. It was a. It was a bummer. Thoughts on the Surgeon General's new announcement on alcohol linked to cancer and will that change how you consume alcohol?

[Kim France]

Actually, I have been thinking about this for longer than just this most recent Surgeon General's statement because my gynecologist was really banging the drum for me to give up alcohol entirely. She's like a woman your age should not drink anything. So it's been, it has been on my mind a fair amount, this whole. All the health concerns about drinking. You?

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm mostly. I mostly am just kind of. I'm just mostly going to dive deeper into weed. Like, that's just alcohol. I had two drinks the other night or two and a half drinks. I saw an old friend and I had two and a half drinks and I felt like such shit the next day. Like. Like I'd been embalmed, you know, like it's. It's poison. I know it. I still like drinking here and there. I still like drinking a lot. Like, I like the act of drinking. I just don't like the afterwards. And I don't like being stupid. I really don't like being stupid, you know, So I don't know, I'm still. This is a relationship. I'm still working out. But yeah, I saw that and I was like, I don't, I don't want cancer.

[Kim France]

Yeah, no, no, for sure.

[Unknown Host]

But at the same time, everything in balance and moderation, you know, I don't know, I'm probably. I'm probably going to be a 75 year old, an 80 year old with a martini on occasion.

[Kim France]

Hey, my grandfather lived to be 97 with a martini every night.

[Unknown Host]

I feel like, you know, I feel like if you can be moderate with it, that's, that's, you know, that's fine. I really do want to give up. The thing I really want to do up. Give up is my occasional not so occasional relationship with Capri cigarettes.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Which are just embarrassing. And you know, I'm having like a handful a month and that is not that much. Like, I have a pack that has lasted me since November. Like so it's not, you know, but it's. And there's probably still like 8 in it. But like, I look forward to those cigarettes, so I know I'm back in the addiction somewhat.

[Kim France]

Yeah, no, I get it. We bought a pack of cigarettes on New Year's Eve and I smoked one. But even that, even that I feel so guilty and horrible and awful and like something. You know, I can feel the cancer growing inside of me.

[Unknown Host]

But I love smoking.

[Kim France]

Smoking is one of the great things that was ever invented. It's just a shame that it's so terrible for you and so offensive to people around you.

[Unknown Host]

I know. I know. But then I'm like, do I, Do I want to be? Like, do I want it? Do I want people to be in my funeral at like 60, you know, 64 or something? Like, oh, she'd only given up those capris.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God.

[Unknown Host]

We have a lot of great questions, but I have to. I have to go. I have to go. So let's. Let's save these questions, the rest of these questions for next week.

[Kim France]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Host]

Absolutely. All right. Well, thanks for listening to Everything is Fine. We are your hosts. I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And I'm Kim France.

[Unknown Host]

If you like the show, please rate and review it across the platforms, especially Apple podcasts. Leave us a review. It helps people find the show. It makes a difference to. I don't know. To what? Does it make a difference? It does. It makes a difference. It helps people find the show. If you want to support the production of the show and help us pay our editor, you can join our [e-mail] everythingisfine. It's $3 a month. You can find Kim on her substack kim france.substack.com you can find me at jenromalini.substack.com you can Find both of us on Instagram if podcast, which is where we promote episodes of the show. If you want to join the Everything is Fine Facebook community, we are on Facebook with a free and robust and private Facebook group. The show is mixed and edited every week by Natalie Rivera. We are so lucky to have you into a new year. And we will be back next week. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Pace Case]

Hi, I'm Pace Case.

[Bachelor Clues]

And I'm Bachelor Clues.

[Pace Case]

We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast. We're covering every show in reality TV at the highest level possible. We analyze the Bachelor, Love is Blind, Perfect Match, Vanderpump, and anything else you find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.

[Bachelor Clues]

We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make reality TV a sport. And we interview superstar players like Bachelorette Kaitlyn Bristow and big brother champion Taylor Hale.

[Pace Case]

If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses.

[Unknown Host]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.