Skunked!

Summary

Episode Summary: "Skunked!" – Navigating Life’s Unexpected Challenges and Finding Hope

Everything is Fine, hosted by Jennifer Romolini and Kim France, ventures into the often unpredictable and challenging phases of life for women over 40. In the episode titled "Skunked!", Jen and Kim engage in heartfelt conversations about personal mishaps, mental health struggles, creative inspirations, political hopes, and the nuances of maintaining relationships and self-care during this transformative stage.

1. Jen’s Skunk Sighting and Its Aftermath ([01:50 - 03:43])

The episode kicks off with a humorous yet chaotic account from Jen Romolini. She narrates an unfortunate incident where her dog was sprayed by a skunk, leading to a pervasive and lingering odor throughout her home. Jen describes the frantic efforts to mitigate the smell using common household remedies:

Jen Romolini [02:08]: “...the dog just rages into the house blind, and starts rubbing herself over all of our furniture...”

The situation escalates as the odor becomes unbearable, forcing Jen to navigate through the day-to-day challenges of maintaining a livable environment while managing meetings from her smelly office space.

2. Kim’s Battle with Depression and Knee Injury ([04:20 - 07:30])

Transitioning from Jen’s ordeal, Kim France opens up about her recent struggles with depression. She shares her attempts to combat the fog of depression by resurrecting old coping mechanisms, such as dancing around her apartment. However, this well-intentioned effort backfires when she injures her knee:

Kim France [05:00]: “...I've been going through a rough time these past few weeks. I've just been depressed...”

Jen offers support, reflecting on Kim’s resilience despite facing physical setbacks, and the conversation delves into the emotional toll of living with chronic stress and unexpected physical injuries.

3. Exploring Denver’s Creative Wonders ([08:09 - 12:10])

Jen transitions the discussion to a brighter note by sharing her recent trip to Denver, where she explored two iconic creative venues: Casa Bonita and Meow Wolf. She paints a vivid picture of Casa Bonita as a “wonder palace” despite its mediocre cuisine, highlighting the founders' dedication to creating a magical experience:

Jen Romolini [08:09]: “...they spent like no cost was spared. They spent like over $40 million to make this thing happen.”

Meow Wolf is lauded as an “unbelievable, like artistic achievement” that fosters an immersive and imaginative environment, showcasing the power of creativity to inspire and connect communities.

4. Political Reflections Inspired by Sarah McBride ([12:10 - 19:43])

A significant portion of the episode delves into politics, sparked by Jen’s inspiration from an interview with Sarah McBride, Delaware’s first transgender U.S. representative. Jen reflects on Sarah’s insights about the need for empathy and understanding in political discourse:

Jen Romolini [15:56]: “...we've gone so far at policing and shaming everybody...”

Kim expresses her feelings of discouragement and skepticism about the current political climate, emphasizing the challenges liberals face in finding consensus:

Kim France [18:23]: “Stubbornest...” [Referring to her senior class superlative]

Despite the bleak outlook, Jen remains hopeful, believing that nuanced conversations and genuine understanding can pave the way for social change.

5. Listener Questions and Personal Insights ([33:16 - 49:04])

The hosts transition to addressing listener questions, offering practical advice and personal anecdotes on various topics:

• Managing Summer as a Working Parent: Jen shares her struggles with balancing work and parenting without ample support, concluding that full-time help is often the only viable solution.

• Wireless Bras and Underwear: Kim recommends Negative Underwear for those seeking wireless options that offer support without compromising comfort.

• Generative AI and Its Impact: Both hosts express reservations about AI, particularly regarding ethical concerns and the exploitation of user data. Jen recounts a frustrating experience with an uninvited AI chatbot on Facebook, illustrating her distrust in current AI applications:

  Jen Romolini [37:11]: “...I just feel like it's a cautionary tale waiting to happen at all times.”

• Lash Care Recommendations: Kim suggests Better Than Sex mascara for its waterproof qualities, while Jen recommends Maybelline’s Lash Sensational and Lash Princess for affordable yet effective options.

• Experiencing Invisibility with Age: The conversation shifts to the societal tendency to overlook older women, discussing the emotional impact of being "invisible" versus the unexpected peace it can bring:

  Jen Romolini [46:08]: “...there is an invisibility to it, and that can be fun. But it can also feel a little lonely.”

6. Navigating Relationships and Compromises ([20:00 - 26:49])

Jen and Kim delve into the intricacies of long-term relationships, discussing the balance between love and the inevitable compromises that come with time. Jen reflects on the unending nature of compromise in marriage and the importance of maintaining a strong social support system:

Jen Romolini [22:18]: “...the unending compromise and knowing the unending compromise of living with someone for that long...”

Kim shares her perspective on relationship dynamics, emphasizing the blend of desirable qualities and human imperfections:

Kim France [24:11]: “Losers.”

Despite acknowledging past impulsive decisions, both hosts appreciate the stability and companionship that long-term relationships offer, contrasting it with the fleeting nature of newer relationships.

7. Closing Thoughts and Final Reflections ([48:07 - 49:17])

As the episode wraps up, Jen and Kim ponder the balance between visibility and invisibility in their daily lives. They discuss strategies for maintaining meaningful connections and finding peace in different stages of life, ultimately embracing their current phases with humor and acceptance.

Kim France [49:06]: “...spitting is like, oh, my gosh. So much more elegant. Such an elegant solution.”

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jen Romolini [02:08]: “...the dog just rages into the house blind, and starts rubbing herself over all of our furniture...”

• Kim France [05:00]: “...I've been going through a rough time these past few weeks. I've just been depressed...”

• Jen Romolini [08:09]: “...they spent like no cost was spared. They spent like over $40 million to make this thing happen.”

• Jen Romolini [15:56]: “...we've gone so far at policing and shaming everybody...”

• Kim France [18:23]: “Stubbornest...” [Referring to her senior class superlative]

• Jen Romolini [24:56]: “...if my husband and I were to break up and I was just out fucking, I wouldn't get shit done.”

• Kim France [49:06]: “...spitting is like, oh, my gosh. So much more elegant. Such an elegant solution.”

Conclusion

In "Skunked!", Everything is Fine offers a candid and relatable exploration of the challenges and triumphs that come with navigating life over 40. Through shared stories, insightful discussions, and a touch of humor, Jen and Kim provide a space for listeners to find solidarity and encouragement amidst life’s unpredictability.

Transcript

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[Kim France]

Hi and welcome to Everything is Fine, a podcast for women over 40. We are your hosts. It's that kind of day already.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God.

[Kim France]

It's going to be that kind of episode already.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God.

[Kim France]

We are your hosts. I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

And I'm Jen Romolini. And Kim, I'm coming to you from a room that I know that you're having a hard time, but I haven't told you yet about what's happening for me, which is my dog got sprayed by a skunk last night.

[Kim France]

No.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. No shit. Yeah. I had cooked dinner. Alex was like, I'm going to take the dog for a walk. And I was like, all right, well, I'll do the dishes while you take the dog for a walk. Like, and then we could just watch TV when you come back. And, like, my edible had just kicked in. I had, like, a cup of tea in my hand. I was all ready to watch the new Nathan Fielder show. Like, is that his name? Yes. And he comes in, he was like, oh, no. Oh, no. And I Was like, what? And the dog just, like, rages into the house blind, and, like, just starts rubbing herself over all of our furniture. I mean, just like. And I was like, what the fuck is happening? And he was like, there was a skunk. And I was like, catch the dog. Catch the dog. So now we're, like, looking up, like, what do we have to make a potion to get rid of skunk? You know? And it's like, apparently it's peroxide dawn and baking soda. And I had all three, so we're making that. But really where she's been sprayed is, like, right around her eyes, so we can't put the solution there. So she's, like, blind. We're trying to, like, rinse her eyes out. And, like, the fucking house, I can't even tell you because it is lingering. It smells so bad. She smells so bad. And then her crate is in my office. So it's like I went from, like, cat piss to, like, skunk smell. And I am just. I'm having to have meetings in here today. And I'm just like, oh, my God, I'm gonna throw up. Cause it, like, it smells like it's the worst smell you've ever smelled. You can't believe how bad it is.

[Kim France]

That is what you get for living in the country.

[Jen Romolini]

I do not live in the country.

[Kim France]

You live in the city. But you have. There's, like, country life. Like, we have rats and occasionally possums.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. Yes. No, there is. No, we have, like. We have, like, mountain lions and hawks and raccoons and skunks and lots and lots of skunks. Anyway, so that's what's happening over here. So forgive me if I am, I don't know, cranky, a person who's been. Who's been breathing in skunk scent for 18 hours.

[Kim France]

Oh, how long do you think it's gonna last?

[Jen Romolini]

I don't know. The Internet says weeks. No, I don't know. Alex has already, like, DoorDash, like, five. Five solutions that we can. We can. We can try as soon as we're not working. So, I mean, it happened, you know, it happened in, like 9 o'clock last night. So, like, not great, because you're just like, the fuck. You just. It's when things like that happen, you're like, you have just stolen my time. Like, this stupid thing has just like, when anything. Like the, you know, the dishwasher breaks or whenever anything happens, and you're like, this is a thief of time.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

How are you doing? Hi.

[Kim France]

You know, I'm going to say it. I'm going through a rough time. I mean, I feel good that we're talking. It always puts me in a better mood when I see you.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

But I've been going through a rough time these past few weeks. I've just been depressed and I get a few good hours in the morning before things kind of. The fog sets in.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

Yeah. And it's fewer hours every day and it's getting worse.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

And I'm going to see my doctor this week. You know, I've been taking the same meds for a long time and I've been very happy with them. And I'm very, very, very reluctant to change anything.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kim France]

And usually I just stick it out. Sometimes this happens two or three times a year. I'll just get down. It feels like it happens two or three times a year and it'll always lift.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kim France]

But this time it's just. It's not lifting quickly enough. And then I was like. I was like, okay, Kim, change a muscle, move a thought. Like, you've gotta do some exercise if you wanna not be depressed.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

So I decided to do what I sometimes used to do during COVID and put on my headphones and dance around the apart in the morning.

[Jen Romolini]

Amazing. Amazing.

[Kim France]

So I did that and I fucked up my knee.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, fuck.

[Kim France]

I totally up my knee. I'm like icing it. I've got a. I've got a brace on it. I'm like walking limply.

[Jen Romolini]

No, it's. I'm. First off, I'm really sorry that that's happening. I'm sorry. I mean, I. I've known you a long time. I. I know these cycles. I know you're going to be. And I know you know that too. But it is fucked up how your body just betrays you. Like, you're just like sitting the wrong way and suddenly there's like a rib out.

[Kim France]

No. It's like your body is going, fuck you.

[Jen Romolini]

And fuck you.

[Kim France]

Exactly. Fuck you again.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly. No, I am so. Because I've been lifting some weights. I am so dinged up. I am in so much pain. I had like a charley horse in my foot last night. I was like, trying to breathe through it so I didn't wake up, Alex. Because it hurt so bad. But the only thing I will say is I lifted my suitcases over my head and put them into the bin easily. Much more easily than I had four months ago.

[Kim France]

Amazing.

[Jen Romolini]

I'm in absolute agony almost all the time. But I have gotten stronger.

[Kim France]

That's Great.

[Jen Romolini]

So, you know, maybe keep the dance. Maybe keep dancing. I don't know.

[Kim France]

I can. I fucked up my knee. It was not. And I wasn't even doing anything tricky. I was dancing like an old person, you know?

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, I do know. I do know what it is like to dance like an old person. I 100% do know.

[Kim France]

I've noticed it because maybe I've said this before when I've watched Paul's students on stage dancing, like I've said this. They use their entire bodies like the way we used to when we danced when we were young. And then when you get older, you just step from one side to the next and do something with your arms.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean, that was always my move. So I never had much more than that. So I have a couple of good things to talk about, I think. Maybe. I don't know, maybe. Yes, yes. Actually, I have a couple of good things to talk about. Denver. My wrap up in Denver. My wrap up of Denver is Denver had two creative palaces. And I visited both. And the first one was Casa Bonita, which is the south park restaurant that turned out to be magical and majestic and like every single thing you'd want out of something weird like that. The food was completely mediocre, but, like, it was like a wonder palace. Like, they had like cliff divers. Like, there was like this huge. It was. There was a pool in the middle of the restaurant, like a lake.

[Kim France]

Like a. Amazing.

[Jen Romolini]

And. And it was just crazy. And you could see, see like, how much it delighted all of the kids that were there. And I just been thinking about it so much because the south park founders, it's like they both went to this restaurant when they were kids and they loved it. And when they bought it, they wanted to recreate this, like, sense of wonder and like everything. And they 100% did. They spent like, no cost was spared. They spent like over $40 million to make this thing happen. And they both have kids and guess what? They can never take their kids there because they're so famous. They can't go there. They can't enjoy it.

[Kim France]

Oh, wow.

[Jen Romolini]

So they just made this thing. It's just there was something about that that was so beautiful to me. I couldn't kind of get over it. Like this gift that you've given this community. And like anybody else who visits it, it was so great. And then the other thing, if anybody is ever going to Denver, Meow Wolf is. I don't even know how to describe it, except it's just this, like, unbelievable, like, artistic achievement where like, every detail. It's so creative. They created, like, an entire world, and every detail has, like, art in it. The lighting is beautiful and the music. And, like, there's tapestry and there's sculpture, and it's just both things were really humbling to me because you have those moments where you're like, oh, everything's horrible and sucks. And then you see that somebody, like, put a lot of work into making, like, a resin sculpture or, like, a little crochet thing, and you're like, wow, somebody really, like, worked hard on this, like, triumph of the human spirit.

[Kim France]

I think it's good also to remind yourself, and this sounds obnoxious, but that there are so many amazing things between. In the land between New York and LA.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. 100%. 100%. Because I am such a coast person, and I have historically been very nervous anytime I'm in the middle of the country. And this, like, last year of my life. I've been in the middle of the country a bunch, and I've been like, oh, it's cool here. Like, I like that. Like, it's not bad. Like, I would 100% move to Kalamazoo.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

You know? Yeah. Stupid. Everything's stupid and great and horrible. I don't know.

[Kim France]

No, that restaurant sounds like it was amazing.

[Jen Romolini]

It is. I highly recommend people having south park loving children or not. If you are ever in Denver or if you even just want to make a pilgrimage, get reservations and just go. Because it's 100% worth it. It was so, so stupid and fun. I had such a good time. Yeah. So that was. I got back from there and, you know, basically just. It's basically been skunk smell since.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God. When did you get back from Denver? How many days ago?

[Jen Romolini]

Um, Saturday.

[Kim France]

Like, four days ago and.

[Jen Romolini]

Ugh, four days ago. But it hasn't been skunk smell since. But that's just been the vibe, you know, like, back to work and back to. I mean, it wasn't like a real vacation, but it still was a break. You know, breaks are important.

[Kim France]

They are important. I realized that I. When we took that trip to Mexico this winter, I was like, I gotta figure out a way to do something like this every winter on, you know, not. Like, not. I can't do it every year the way I did it this year. But, like, figure out a way to get away and go somewhere warm when it's cold out for someone like me who is so seasonally fucked up.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. You know, maybe do it twice.

[Kim France]

Why not?

[Jen Romolini]

Or maybe do it for Longer next time. Like, work from there. Like, my parents have started, like, renting a house in the Keys for a couple of years. And, like, they just did it for a month. I mean, I know the dog, but. Yeah. Anyway, the world is crumbling, except I will say. And I was gonna use this as the things that don't suck. Cause I was. I am feeling hopeful about politics for the first time in months and months only because I listened to an interview with Sarah McBride. And Sarah McBride, if you don't know, is. I forget what she. You know what? Actually, let me look this up before I say this, but there's this amazing interview with Sarah McBride on Pod Save America. And she's a U.S. representative for Delaware, and she is the first trans person in Congress. And the way she was talking about politics, Democrats, how we've lost our way, what we need to do to find it again. I won't do it justice to actually try to recreate it. But this idea that we thought we had made more progress than we had, that people don't understand trans people, like, this is a person who is just being abused, like, every day in Congress by these petty assholes, the asshole Republicans. But just the way she was talking about it, she was like, I don't think that we've forgotten how to actually create social change. And she was just. There was just so many different things that she said that I was like, oh, my God, I've never heard anybody say that. And that's absolutely right. And that's so smart. And maybe we can do that. And it was so funny because I was listening to the podcast America guys. You could hear their jaws falling. Like, you could hear that as much as they talk about politics, they had not really thought about it in this way and had not actually engaged with somebody about in this way. And they kept trying to, like, ask her questions as you do, that sort of cornered her, you know, like, well, why isn't AOC running every. Like, just questions that she just. She never picked up the bait. She never picked it up. And I was so impressed with it. And I was like, okay, if more people could be like this, then maybe there's hope for us.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I think. I mean. Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I don't know.

[Jen Romolini]

How are you feeling? Yeah. Lately about politics?

[Kim France]

I mean, just discouraged.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kim France]

Very, very discouraged. And not unscared. Yeah, it's scary, you know, And I feel as though. I feel frustrated at liberals for failing to find consensus.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. Yes. And one of the things Sarah McBride said that I think that was so interesting is like, why do people vote for you? And she was like, one of the reasons and one of the top reasons that people vote for you is because you think they think you like them. She was like, our constituents think we hate them. They Democrat, like, people think the Democrats hate them, and that's why they won't vote for us, because we've gone so far. And this is a person from a marginalized community talking about this. She was like, we've gone so far at policing and shaming everybody.

[Kim France]

Yep.

[Jen Romolini]

And done less work at educating and inspiring. And it was so interesting the way she was talking about it. And, like, she was like, look, this sucks. I wish it wasn't this way. But that doesn't mean it's not this way. It doesn't mean that it's going to take people a little longer and that we have to work on helping get them there, you know? Like, it was really interesting, like, talking about where we went after 2016 and just how, like, no, you're either this way or you're a terrible person. And she was like. And that turned fucking people off. Cause it made them feel embarrassed. It made them feel like everybody's so afraid they're gonna be canceled. It made them feel like they couldn't make a mistake.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I think it's a big problem. I think it's a big, big fucking problem. And I don't know how it turns itself around.

[Jen Romolini]

Well, I think that it's not moderate positions necessarily, because that wasn't what she was recommending. And that's why, really, I suggest everybody listen to this. She was like, I just think that we need to have a better understanding of where people are coming from. And we really have all been like, oh, Trump supporters are all stupid fucking idiots. Like, we really just have been like, if you're not with us, you're pieces of shit. And that's it. And I remember when the election was happening, right before the election, I remember participating, and I brought this up before in this Facebook thing with some high school friends and really just hearing myself, like, reading my words and being like, I sound like an. Like, I sound like something I'm not, which is like an elitist liberal who has no tolerance for anybody else. And I. I don't know what. It's cliche to say common ground. And I don't know how we get there and whatever, but, like, I do think that we're not actually as polarized as we actually believe that we are. We've been made to believe that we are. And how much the Republicans are capitalizing on that.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

So I don't know. I recommend everybody. I'll put it in the show notes. It's such a good interview. She's so inspiring and just, like, cool. Like, just smart and smart and original. And these are, like, new thoughts that I had not heard anybody else say. And I was like, yes. Thank God.

[Kim France]

How old is she?

[Jen Romolini]

Like 35.

[Kim France]

Wow. It's gonna be the young people.

[Jen Romolini]

Probably. Probably. Because it's just like. I mean, think about how set in your ways you are. I'm set in my fucking ways. You know?

[Kim France]

Do you know what? I was voted for my senior class. You know, when they do senior class superlatives, do you know what I got?

[Jen Romolini]

No. Tell me.

[Kim France]

Stubbornest.

[Jen Romolini]

Ooh, that would not. That's. Yeah, that's right. That tracks. Well, you know, I mean, there's other. There's nicer ways to put it, but. Yeah. I mean, you're not. You. You. You're like. You're very much like my husband. You're really hard to budge.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

Just the way it is. Just the way. This is the way it is. I mean, I need people like that in my life. Cause I could float around a lot. Too much. So I'm actually always grateful for people who are like, nope, this is where it's at. I'm just here and I'm steady.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I don't think I'm that way all the time, though.

[Jen Romolini]

No, you're not. But, you know, you can be slow to change, but I think you think things out a lot. You're not super impulsive. I don't see you as being very impulsive.

[Kim France]

I have been impulsive in my life, but I wouldn't say I'm an impulsive person now. I mean, I did move in with somebody after about a week of going out.

[Jen Romolini]

That's true, too. I don't know what you're talking about. These are all terribly impulsive. It was. But you kind of knew.

[Kim France]

Yeah. No, I didn't know.

[Jen Romolini]

Happy anniversary, by the way.

[Kim France]

Thank you. We just had our anniversary. Two years married, four years together.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. Four years together. That's crazy.

[Kim France]

Doesn't it feel like just yesterday that I was talking to you on the podcast going, I'm going on a date this week, and I'm really looking excited about the person, and I'm afraid it's just gonna fail like everything else does.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I totally remember the podcast with. With single Kim. It's a totally different thing. It's weird. It's crazy.

[Kim France]

Yeah, it is weird.

[Jen Romolini]

It's crazy. Four years. Wow. I will be married this year. Oh, my God. Seven. 17 years. 18 years. 17 years. I'll be married 17 years. At this point it's like, who fucking knows? Like, how many years is it? Who cares?

[Kim France]

It's such an accomplishment. I'm always so impressed.

[Jen Romolini]

I guess. Yeah, I guess. I guess. I was out with some women I was out with some women the other night and both are single and dating and they were like showing me their profiles, which I am always. I will look at anybody's dating profile at any.

[Kim France]

Always fascinating.

[Jen Romolini]

Always fascinating. I want all the dating profiles and I also want to be swiping with you. Just like sit next to me and just let me. I just want to look at the whole thing. And like they were talking about, you know, you know, all the guys they're fucking and you know, like one of them's like having sex with two different guys and it's very exciting. And it's, you know, a couple times a week and there's another one and we meet at hotels and somebody, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And you know, they got to me and like, it was my turn to talk and it was like, yeah, he couldn't make dinner tonight and he couldn't remember that I was going out and you know, it's like, oh, he doesn't make dinner. He should, you know. And I was like, yeah, but he's like also the love of my life. Like, it's. It's weird. I did. I married the love of my life. Whether, whatever comes with that. I did marry the love of my life. So whatever the fuck. I don't know. Like, marriage is. Marriage is whatever it's going to be. Because it's weird.

[Kim France]

Well, yeah, I mean, because. Because you just. There are trade offs. There are always trade offs. And great and like good people have like, people desirable people have like shitty qualities and foibles and it's just, you know, and pasts, you know, and also.

[Jen Romolini]

Just the unending compromise and knowing the unending compromise of living with someone for that long and having to make all your decisions together, you know, from if you have kids, from parenting together to like, you know, right now we have a bunch of unbuilt furniture and like, I don't know, are we just gonna. Are we playing chicken? Who's gonna fucking build the furniture? Like, why don't you just boxes. I know.

[Kim France]

Task rabbit.

[Jen Romolini]

I know I need to call a task rabbit. That's what I really need to Do I kind of thought while I was away, somebody might have built some of this furniture. Because then you're just throwing more money at the situation. It's like, oh, now we're $600 in on a task, Rabbit. It's like. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, whatever. I'm like, where you have. You have the lug wrench or whatever the fuck it is, you could just build this shit. It's not that hard. But anyway, no. And I was like, I was with those women and I was like, is this appealing to me?

[Kim France]

Like.

[Jen Romolini]

And ultimately right now it's not that appealing to me because it's complicated and it's distracting and. What?

[Kim France]

Having sex with lots of different guys?

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

I mean, I have thought. I have thought, like, if something happened with me and Paul, like, if we weren't together anymore, I wouldn't date again. I wouldn't go back on the apps. I just wouldn't. It made me feel so vulnerable.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

You know, and people were so shitty.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

And with a few exceptions, I have terrible judgment when it comes to men.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

I have not had the best judgment. I think I got lucky with Paul, but, you know, and a couple other people. But by and large, you line up my ex boyfriends and it's the biggest procession of losers you could hope to see.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean, I think I. I think I. I don't know if that's true of you. I mean, I have not.

[Kim France]

Losers.

[Jen Romolini]

Not losers is too strong. Losers is too strong. Mismatches.

[Kim France]

Mismatches. Listen to you.

[Jen Romolini]

No, but I was like, I get that the would be nice. Like, I totally get that. And all the new. And like, dressing up, like, the whole thing, like, shaving my legs and desire and skin and sex and all of it. Like, I can understand. I think, like, somehow I understand what it would be like, but at the same time, I have my kid in my house for three more years. I have serious, serious, you know, creative goals and aspirations. And if I. Like, if my husband and I were to break up and I was just out fucking, I don't Wouldn't get shit done.

[Kim France]

You would get shit done. You would just get shit done differently.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Or I just wouldn't. Or I just wouldn't be dating. But I also just don't. I don't want that distraction in my life. But, yeah, the. The lore of it, you know, everybody always says, like, divorce is contagious, but sometimes I'm like, yeah, but it has to. You have to be in the right. I mean, of course, obviously you have to be. It's a big, you know, you have to be in the right place for that. You have to really want the exit.

[Kim France]

You know, you do have to really want the exit. And when I was first divorced, like, it was, that was fun, you know, it was fun to like make out with new people on the sofa or on a street corner or something. But it's not all fun like that.

[Jen Romolini]

Right? Well, the jailbreak, I mean, there's a whole pattern of divorce. It goes the exact same way for everybody I've ever seen get divorced. There's the first like six months to a year jailbreak, maybe even shorter. Depends on who you are, where you're just like, whoa, I can't believe it. I have the whole bed to myself. I eat whatever I want, whenever the fuck I want. I do whatever I want. I fuck whoever I want. Making out. Yay.

[Kim France]

Wahaha.

[Jen Romolini]

And then there's like a. Then there's like a crash where there's like, for a lot of people, there's like an accountability crash where they had maybe been just hating the partner the whole time and they have a moment of like reckoning with themselves where they're like, yeah, maybe that was also my part. And also now I'm all alone with my shit. And that's weird because it was, it was easy to blame it all on this partner. And now, you know, now I have this time and then it sort of all levels out, but I feel like this, the pattern is the same. It's like a high and then a crash every time.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I'd say that tracks for me.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Or you get into another relationship and you just never. You never resolve anything. Or you just have like another relationship right afterwards and you just never have to deal with your shit. Sometimes you can go the whole life like that.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a quick break from some ads.

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A week to evaluate seat comfiness.

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[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

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[Jen Romolini]

Oh, the right.

[Dax Shepard]

Still need to buy the car. Getting ahead of ourselves here.

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[Jen Romolini]

And we're back. Speaking of entire lives, have you seen. I have a wreck for you that I think you would particularly really like. Have you seen the Ali Willis documentary the World According to Ali Willis?

[Kim France]

No.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. You know who Ali Willis is?

[Kim France]

I don't.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh my God. You have to know this person. And everybody needs to watch the documentary. Our good friend. We wish Pamela Adlon is in it because Ali Willis was a good friend of hers. Ali Willis was an incredible, incredibly successful songwriter. She wrote the song September. She wrote the Cyndi Lauper who Let in the Rain. She wrote the Friends theme song and like hundreds of other songs that you've heard of. And she was just this like real musical genius and eccentric and just by the end, like really was grooving and she like suffered a lot in her life and she was. Cause she was gay and she was a gay woman in the music business, which, you know, didn't like women to begin with and. But then by the end of her life, she was like really just enjoying her life so totally, totally worth seeing. She had this crazy house that she like, was one of those people who was like collectors. She also did a lot of work with like Pee Wee Herman. She was like a set designer and they were really good friends. Anyway, high, high wreck to see that that sounds good.

[Kim France]

And I think I may have vaguely remember seeing a reel about it.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, you probably saw Pamela Adlon share it, which is how I found it.

[Kim France]

Yeah, that's probably how. God, to have just written the Friends theme song. That's the kind of rich I'd like to be. Friends theme song?

[Jen Romolini]

No, no, not rich. $2,000. And then royalties, which were not that high because what happened was after it became such. She got $2,000 upfront. This is what you think. You think this fucking shit makes you rich, but it doesn't. She got $2,000 upfront, and then she had to share a large. She only had, like, I think, 10% of the royalties or something just from the song. And it really didn't make her rich because what happened was the producers of that show, those greedy fucks, they were like, well, you know, we. Once they saw the show, the song was really successful. They were like, well, you know, we gave feedback on the lyrics, so. And they gave themselves a huge percentage of the profits. So she actually wasn't. She was. She always kind of struggled with money, which is interesting because she had all, like, September, I guess, the Earth, Wind and Fire song. September is like, one of the most popular songs of all time. I did not realize that you know what that song is?

[Kim France]

Yeah. Do you remember.

[Jen Romolini]

Anyway? Yes.

[Kim France]

Well, you know, the White Stripes have a song that, like, you've heard it? No, that's not it. I can't do it. But it's a white striped song, Seven Nation army, that gets played, like, every time a sports team plays it. It's really. It's really popular for sports teams to play for all sports in the entire world.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

And every time that song plays at any stadium, the White Stripes get royalties.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean. Yeah. And I don't know what that looks like. Is that $3? I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. Like, apparently whatever the royalties were for the Friend song, I was like, oh. Then she had it made, but she did not have it made.

[Kim France]

Wow.

[Jen Romolini]

I know, I know. Bummer, right?

[Kim France]

It's hard to be a creative person. A life. You know, somebody who spends their life being a creative person.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, exactly. She did so much, though. She, like, painted and she also. She wound up writing the. The Color Purple musical and like, oh, wow. You know, with. With two black creators and, like, they. They won a Tony for that. And anyway, it just. It's just an amazing story and like, finally came out and, like, like, allowed this, like, longtime partner to have, like, this Love that was like, in, you know, in public. And the partners interviewed a lot in it. And I, you know, I cried, obviously. So I don't think we really have many things that don't suck. Should we just go to listener questions?

[Kim France]

Let's go to listener questions. It's all my fault that we don't have more things that don.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, don't be mean to yourself. Come on, you're having a hard enough time. Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? It's only a podcast.

[Kim France]

Yeah, yeah, See, it's just a podcast.

[Jen Romolini]

We are not a model for anything. Also, it's an independent podcast. We have no bosses. Let's not be mean. Like, we're. We are bosses. Okay. All right. Okay. This is a question for me. How do you survive this summer as a working parent? My son is in kindergarten. This will be the first year he's not in daycare full time. We have a summer camp scheduled for him, but there's a week or two here and there between school and summer camp. Like you and many other parents, we don't have a village and there aren't a lot of trustworthy adults to help take care of him. How do you manage? I mean, this is a horrible nightmare. Nobody thinks about what you're supposed to do in the summer. I used to stack camps back to back to back. And then, you know, try to work around when. Work from home and work around when my kid was home. I had a kid who often got kicked out of camps. Like literally like 8 times out of 10 got kicked out of the camp. And I just, you know, I took them to work with me. I just. It was unpleasant. It was deeply unpleasant. Sometimes I had like another mom who would, like, help out and I would take her kid one day and she would take mine another day. But there's no really good answer unless you can afford full time help. I mean, the answer is like full time help. That's it.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, this one's probably for you. Any recs for a wireless bra or bralette that doesn't give you a boob?

[Kim France]

I really like negative underwear right now. I can't speak to that. Sounds like a large breasted woman's problem. So I can't really speak to it. I can't speak to the uniboob part. But I will say this. I used to wear underwires until Covid when I stopped wearing bras. And when I started wearing bras again, I couldn't abide an underwire. But my boobs are really lopsided. Because of my surgery from when I had breast cancer. And even just with these negative underwear bras without a wire, it still keeps them from looking lopsided.

[Jen Romolini]

That's good. That's good. I have no answer to this. I hate bras and all undergarments, and I try to avoid them, and everything looks like a unit boob and it's a nightmare. Or I wish I could wear no bra at all. Okay, have you talked about what you think, slash, feel about generative AI? Would love to hear your thoughts. Maybe more specifically, impact on knowledge workers and creatives, but curious to hear your thoughts more broadly too, Kim.

[Kim France]

I was gonna say, Jen.

[Jen Romolini]

I hate AI. Like, a couple of. Like, several years ago, a person we know and love, when Twitter was coming out, wrote a whole story about how bad Twitter was and how nobody should be on Twitter and whatever. And when that story came out, I was like, oh, God, we're getting old. And we're like, behind the times and et cetera, and, like, we just need to, like, keep up with technology or we're just gonna. We might as well be like sentient dust. But I think that AI is so uninteresting to me because I just feel like it's a cautionary tale waiting to happen at all times. And I just feel like I. I see that it can help people, and it can. I think it can probably do a lot of good. I just don't trust the hands that it's in, and I don't trust the technology. And I also fucking resent that they're using us to train it for free.

[Kim France]

Yes, I know. That's very Handmaid's Tale feeling.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. There was an AI chatbot. It took me an hour to figure out how to shut it down on our Facebook group. Uninvited chatbot. Just in our groups, trolling our language so it can train itself better to sound like humans and just offering up advice. And then I had to meta. Makes it really hard to shut it off. I had to, like, upload the Facebook app. That was the only way to do it. And even then, it was confusing and complicated, and that's by design. I mean, if you read the Careless People book, they're horrible, horrible people. We should not be using these platforms.

[Kim France]

I know.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean, that's the bottom line. We just shouldn't be using them. It's just ridiculous.

[Kim France]

I know, but they've made themselves indispensable.

[Jen Romolini]

I know, but if you got into the part of that book, I don't know how far you are in that book. If you got into the part of that book where they're literally targeting teen girls self esteem issues by giving advertisers keywords they can buy. They know when a teen girl deletes a selfie and they have certain keywords that an advertiser can buy that will then deliver. Like when she deletes the selfie, some keywords come up and then they will deliver this ad to them. And one of the keywords was worthless.

[Kim France]

That is really bleak.

[Jen Romolini]

It's so fucking bleak. And they knew about it. This wasn't an accident. They were selling this. This was in a deck. This was like something they were proud of, this technology. Wow, look at how well we can target. We can target, you know, potential buyers and fucking vulnerable teen girls. I, when I read that, I was so sick to my stomach. Anyway, I feel bad about AI in a blanket way because of who is controlling it. I mean, what do I want fucking Elon Musk now? Elon Musk, you have to pay to have DMS in X or Twitter, whatever he owns now, whatever X. And I think it's because he wants to train AI in the DMs they want because that's where you really learn the nuance of language is how people talk to each other quickly. Right, right. It's bleak. So no, I have a hard time seeing what it can do for the world because the positive it can do for the world because I really just. These broligarchy that they're calling it, these text fucking monsters. I don't see that they have any good intentions.

[Kim France]

No.

[Jen Romolini]

So that's how I feel.

[Kim France]

Well put.

[Jen Romolini]

Thanks. There's more to say about craft and art and soul and humanity. But that's it for today. Okay. Kim, what did you mean in the podcast when you referenced Anne Helen Peterson?

[Kim France]

All I was saying was that I had read that her Facebook posts were being disappeared.

[Jen Romolini]

By Facebook, that's all somebody thinks that you meant Helen Cox Richardson, but you meant Anne Helen Peterson.

[Kim France]

No, I meant Heather Cox Richardson.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh my God. Okay, here we go. All right, good.

[Kim France]

Okay, Yes, I meant Heather Cox Richardson.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, that's right. All right. See, we're correcting things in real time.

[Kim France]

That feels good. Oh my God, I'm such a dumbass. And why do people have three names like that?

[Jen Romolini]

Well, I mean, they just do because. Well, some people have. They use their first and their middle name and some people use their, both their parents names.

[Kim France]

But you know what else it is? It's first name, two syllables, middle name, one syllable, last name, three syllables.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, it's very similar. It's very in this as a sound.

[Kim France]

While being completely different people.

[Jen Romolini]

Totally different people. 100% different people. Both, I think. Maybe both blonde. Did I make that up? I don't know. Maybe not. But that's what we were talking about last week. We were talking about Heather Cox Richardson. I didn't even pick up on it. I was like, oh, really?

[Kim France]

God, what do I know?

[Jen Romolini]

What do either of us know? We are not role models. I think that we should reiterate it again. This is not like the how to Be Like Us podcast.

[Kim France]

No. Heaven forfend.

[Jen Romolini]

There are so many of those. You could certainly check out Mel Robbins. Like, that's great. Go over there. But you don't have to go over there. Please stay here. Okay. Can you recommend a waterproof mascara that doesn't also suck in some way?

[Kim France]

Better than sex mascara? They make a decent waterproof one. I use it in the summer a lot.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, there's, you know what's really good and it's not waterproof per se, but it's water resistant. Is Lash Sensational by Maybelline. It's a really good mascara that doesn't flake or smudge and requires you to kind of take it off. I think that that's a good one. And then there's that super cheap one. I'm forgetting the name of it, but I'll put it in the show notes. It's that it's like $6 and I actually like it better than the non waterproof version. It's like princess lash or something. $6.

[Kim France]

And I think it's a Lash Princess.

[Jen Romolini]

Lash Princess. That's it. They make a really good waterproof mascara that's. That's really cheap. Cheap like six bucks. Okay. Speaking of, have you discussed lashes? What's a sparse lash owner to do serums easy to use False lashes. Copperfield Esque Makeup Illusions Inquiring eyes want to know. You can use latch serums, but there are dermatologists I've talked to say that they wouldn't because the chemicals in them are risky. And there are studies saying that they have thickened the eyelids of some people who have used them in ways that can affect your vision. There are natural ones that work less effectively but can condition the lash area. Like Vegamor makes one. There are growth serums that are natural that just have, I don't know, calendula or whatever ingredients they would have to promote growth. This one's a harder one than brows because brows you can use the growth serums and they Work really well. But touching that shit to your eyes, that's. That's a. You know, that's going to be you decision. But there are. There are ones out there, like, new brow makes a new lash serum, which is supposed to be really good. I don't use them. People do. Do you have thoughts on lashes, Kim?

[Kim France]

No. I did get lash extensions once.

[Jen Romolini]

How were they?

[Kim France]

It was fine, but it was like, you can't wear mascara. You can only wear certain mascaras if you have lash extensions.

[Jen Romolini]

Right. So.

[Kim France]

And you don't really need to because you have lash extensions. But what I discovered was my lashes, just when I put on mascara, basically looked the same as my lashes when I had extensions.

[Jen Romolini]

Interesting. Interesting. I mean, and look, certainly fake eyelashes, if you have the. The patience, the time, the dexterity, like, all of that, if you have the fine motor skills to pull that shit off, like, they look great. A lot of the ones like you can just buy look amazing. I just don't. I don't have that. I don't have any of those things for that. I wish I did. Have you experienced any, quote, disappearing in public because of age, where people seem to not notice your physical presence? If so, do you experience this as a good or a bad thing?

[Kim France]

I mean, we talk about this so much.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, talk. Talk more.

[Kim France]

I mean, I'm very aware of how I read as I walk down the street. You know that I do. And, you know, when you're past a certain age, you're a person who people are gonna pass over or not take great notice of. Unless you become an older lady with red glasses and funky sneakers and everything like that.

[Jen Romolini]

Or like the green lady who lives in New York who just. Everything. Yeah. Like, good for her. Yay. I was just thinking about this the other day because it was nice. It was nice in some ways, but also terrible. Like, it's like, it was both things, but it was nice to, like, walk down the street and feel a sort of inside. Even if it was an unwanted connection because you were being looked at because you were young, your skin was young, you were glowing, you were sexy, you were, you know, fertile. And I resented that when I was young. But now sometimes I miss feeling it's not the gaze so much as feeling like there was just a connection with other people, even if it wasn't a connection I necessarily wanted. If that makes sense.

[Kim France]

No, I totally get that. That makes perfect sense. It is about living in a different way. Living publicly a different way.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. And there is an invisibility to it, and that can Be fun. But it can also feel a little lonely. And I think that you really have to create a robust, you have to go out of your way to create a robust social network for yourself and social support system and just feeling of connection with people in a way that I feel that I could just kind of fall into before.

[Kim France]

Yep, yep. When you were younger, you did fall into it more. And it takes, you fell into it. It takes a lot of effort.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Like I'm not gonna strike up a conversation in a bar in the same way. I mean, maybe I could. That's like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna use any examples. I don't wanna fucking get any bullshit. But, but I feel like even sitting at the airport bar, the airport restaurant the other day, my kid was like, go away, I want to read this book alone. I don't want to be around you. And I was like, okay, we have an hour until the flight comes. I'm going to go to this restaurant and get food, whatever. And I was at the bar and there was a young woman sitting next to me and the bartender was like really chatting her up. Like really chatting her up. And then on the other side of me, it was a woman about 10 years older than me who really wanted to talk to him about all the ingredients in her drink and how he made it. And this young bartender seemed to me less interested in talking to this very eager middle aged woman than he was to speak to the 25 year old. And I thought, well, this is what this is now.

[Kim France]

Yep, that's, that's pretty much the size of it. I mean it, it's just the way it is.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

And, and there's no, I mean, I, I, it's just nature. It's just the law of the jungle.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes. And it's just like just coming to peace with, I'm in a different place in my life. Because honestly, for me to try to keep holding onto it and clawing it back, clawing that attention back. I can't even imagine the stress and how contrived I'd feel and how inauthentic to what I am, you know, and who I am. It's okay. This is our time of this, we had the time of the other thing. Yeah.

[Kim France]

And it wasn't always fun.

[Jen Romolini]

No. And it certainly wasn't always fun. Exactly. That's the thing. Cause it was a trade off then, just like it's a trade off now. Cause sometimes it felt so violating to walk down the street, you know?

[Kim France]

Yeah. So yeah, I remember I Was very proud of myself. Cause I thought of the perfect thing to do. If a man said something obnoxious on the street to me.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

I would spit on the sidewalk.

[Jen Romolini]

Ooh.

[Kim France]

And it worked dangerously well. Like, a couple of men, like, really started yelling at me. And I actually once went running down the block because I was so scared.

[Jen Romolini]

Wow. That. That's really brilliant. It worked. That's. Of course it did. That's incredible. I mean, my mom, when we would walk down dangerous streets in Philly when I was little, my mom would always tell us to all look crazy. She was like, people, that's not what.

[Kim France]

I thought you were gonna say.

[Jen Romolini]

No, she was like, people don't fuck with people who look crazy. Like, just. She would make, like, the most distorted facial expressions and, like, start making really weird sounds. And she was like. I mean, I don't think she said to me as a little kid, people don't fuck with people who look crazy. But that was the idea. Like, you look crazy. Like, this guy's not gonna mug you if you're gonna. You know. And, you know, I haven't employed that in my life, but I could see how it's a good strategy. But spitting is like, oh, my gosh. Chef's kiss. So much more elegant. Such an elegant solution. All right, well, Kim France, you did it. You.

[Kim France]

Thank you, Jen.

[Jen Romolini]

You did it. You. You brought it. We did it. Another. Another week of Everything is Fine for people to complain about. Thanks for listening to Everything is fine to our lovers and haters alike. We are your hosts. I'm Jen Ramon Malini.

[Kim France]

And I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

If you like the show, please rate and review it across the platforms. If you like it. If you don't, don't. If you want to support the production of the show and get show notes from this episode and a couple of insider wrecks, you can join our [e-mail] everythingisfine. It's $3 a month. You can follow Kim and find more style and beauty and home wrecks on her excellent substack. And also writing. Really good writing this week. Last week. Yeah. Good job.

[Kim France]

Thank you.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Subscribers only writing. But yes, essays by [e-mail] you can find me at jenromalini.substack.com youm can find us both still on a robust and private Facebook group. But not really private AI this show is mixed and edited by the wonderful Natalie Rivera. Thank you, Natalie. And we'll be back next week.

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[Dax Shepard]

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