← Everything's Perfect
Everything's Perfect
Everything’s Perfect… Except Making Friends
00:56:16
Making friends as an adult and maintaining adult friendships can feel awkward, overwhelming, and even isolating—but you're not alone. In this heartfelt and hilariously relatable episode of Everything is Perfect, hosts Autumn Calabrese and Donald...
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- [00:00]
A
And people will say to me, oh, can my dog, like, can we come across and say hi? And there is a split second in me where I almost tell people, no. I say yes, cuz buddy's a super friendly dog. But there's just this moment of I'm going to have to make small talk.
- [00:13]
B
Yes.
- [00:13]
A
And I'm like, don't make me make small talk. And I just remember like, kind of waking up one day and being like, I have like, no friends here. Like, thank God. D, if you try to leave this state without me, I'm going to tie you down. All right, we're kicking off this episode with another five star review. This comes to us from Shelly, 77. She says, I am already so in love with this podcast and I've only listened to the first two. This is like listening to your best friends riding along in the car with me. It's a real talk, real truth and no fluff. I love this. Thanks, Autumn and Donald. Oh, thank you, Shelly. We appreciate you being here.
- [01:00]
B
Yeah, we love it. Thank you.
- [01:02]
A
Let's get into this.
- [01:03]
B
Hey, hey, hey. How you doing? We're back with another episode of Everything's Perfect.
- [01:13]
A
Everything is per thick perfect. No, really, all things are good. I'm a little tired today. Dom had some friends over last night and they come over and they don't come over till after Jiu Jitsu. And so by the time they come over, it's like 7:30 or 8 at night. So they stayed till like 10:30, 10:45. And you know, as the mom, you got to stay awake. But like, it was so long that Dom really didn't have a lot of friends because of homeschool, Pandemic, all that stuff that when they come over, I love it for him so much. And they were having a good time. They were watching Fast and the Furious, but really I'm just sitting there on the couch, like, trying to keep my eyes open. I'm like, are we almost done here?
- [01:51]
B
So someone hanging out with them?
- [01:53]
A
No, they were in the back room and I was on the other couch.
- [01:56]
B
Okay.
- [01:56]
A
Falling asleep repeatedly. And then I went to sleep and I was just dozing off and Dom calls me from downstairs.
- [02:04]
B
I was like, you're like, I'm glad you're making friends, but Mommy needs her sleep.
- [02:08]
A
Yeah. As we've said, these eyes don't stay up on their own anymore. Okay.
- [02:14]
B
That's the truth.
- [02:15]
A
Like, come on. How are you?
- [02:16]
B
Well, I'm so happy that he is, like, connecting more with friends. That's really fun. It's Good age for it too. Yeah, I'm good.
- [02:24]
A
I.
- [02:26]
B
Opened my freezer before I came here to put some ice in my drink and then the frozen raspberries that were in an open bag fell onto the floor and I was. And so I got a paper towel and started cleaning it and my back went out.
- [02:41]
A
What?
- [02:41]
B
Yeah, I was like spasming and so I was like doing a happy baby rock on the floor. I was not happy. And the whole time I was driving here, I was like, oh gosh, this sucks. And my mom was like, you need. You might need a calcium supplement. So everything's perfect except for I feel like an 80 year old man with a bad back.
- [03:02]
A
You've been at my house for 30 minutes and didn't even mention this. I would have slapped a Jovi patch on there. I would have put a seat thing on there. I would have loaded you up with all the things including a calcium.
- [03:11]
B
Well, cuz sometimes, you know, we like tell stories twice. Cuz we'll show up and we'll be like, oh. And then we. And I was like, let me just save some for here. So the riveting story of me cleaning up frozen raspberries and I was pissed and because my back went out, it was taking longer. I'm like crawling around the floor and then I'm just smearing red raspberries on my kitchen floor. It was a disaster. And I think it went out because I too was hanging out with some potential new friends this week. And so I had more to drink than I usually do. Not a lot, but it doesn't take a lot these days, honey. And I just didn't like my body was like, I don't know, like just you. Yeah, so.
- [03:54]
A
So your back went out.
- [03:55]
B
But other than that, I'm fabulous.
- [03:57]
A
Crushing it. I love it. Well, that today we're talking about friends.
- [04:01]
B
Yeah.
- [04:01]
A
And making friends, maintaining friendships. What happens when you lose friendships? We actually had so many people email us about the topic of friends that we were like, yeah, let's talk about this. Because I guess you don't really think about it. Like nobody prepares you for once you're like a real adult that it's not always the easiest.
- [04:22]
B
Right.
- [04:22]
A
To make new friends. I think starting with air. But okay, I want to read one because we have Phone a Friend, you know, so we use a little Phone a Friend email here to kind of take us into our conversation. So she's. This is from Misty. She says I am a New Mexico native. My family moved to Washington state in 2018. Since then, the Friends we have made are very far and few between. I have made friends through work, but since I quit to become a stay at home wife, they only talk to me when I contact them. My New Mexico friends really don't contact us unless we contact them first and we've only had a few visitors since moving here. I feel like the only person after my hubby goes to work I see is you do Autumn. I work out every day. I have a great routine down though. Additionally, my son passed away, so she lost her son in 2021 and her almost 20 year old daughter has moved out. So she says all she really has is my dog and my cat to keep me company during the day while my wonderful husband works in Seattle, about an hour away. We live in a beautiful neighborhood. The people in our neighborhood basically keep to themselves. They are friendly enough to say hello or good morning on my walks with my puppy, but I have yet to make any friends here. I am a part of a couple local Facebook groups and have tried setting up a doggy meetup but haven't had much luck. Any and any ideas on how to meet good friendly people? I'm feeling a bit lonely lately and honestly, I can't tell you how many emails we have with sort of similar stories. Be it that they've moved away or their kids are finally out of the house and it's like, wow, I don't. I don't really know how to make friends or where to make friends.
- [06:02]
B
And it's a big thing. Like at church on Sunday, the speaker was talking about loneliness actually, and she was like, when you're a kid, if there's a kid next door, you go be friends with them. Like it's normal. It's like you go play and so you meet kids and you walk up and you're like, hey, you want to play?
- [06:20]
A
Yeah.
- [06:21]
B
And like that's literally what you say. And as an adult, it like that line doesn't work. It's very different. It's more of a. That's the creepy dating app. I'll let y' all in on the world of Grindr. Just kidding. But it is so different as an adult to like develop new friendships that feel natural and not forced and how to do it and where to do it. And I just think it's. I'm excited to talk about it because a lot of people feel that some people might have different advice they can share. But it is something that I think everyone wants more human connection. And it's like, okay, how do we get it?
- [07:00]
A
Yeah, I Think because we have so much, quote, unquote, connection because of our devices, Right. You're on social media and stuff, and it looks like everybody's having fun and everybody's with people all the time. And then if you're not that person, it could start to really amplify that feeling of loneliness. I know I've experienced that quite a bit being here in la. So when I worked at Equinox, I worked with a huge group of people that were all the same age as me. Like, we were all trainers. Several of us had kids, several didn't. But, like, we all hung out all the time. And when I say all, I'm talking, like, there was like 10 to 15 of us that on a regular basis were doing things. If I didn't have Dom, if he was with his dad, because that was, like, right after we got divorced, I always had something going on. There was a party, there was a barbecue, there was a pool party. And slowly but surely, over the course of the third, I think six years that I worked there, you know, somebody would leave, go get a new job, people would move out of state, and the group got smaller and smaller and smaller. And then I started with Bodi, and that schedule got crazy. So even maintaining those. The friendships that I had became harder. And I remember kind of like, again, and even friends that I didn't make there started moving to other states. And I just remember, like, kind of waking up one day and being like, I have, like, no friends here. Like, thank God. D, if you try to leave this state without me, I'm gonna tie you down. Because, yeah, it got to the point where it was like, there's no friends. And where do you meet them? Like, outside of a work situation. Because for me, being a mom, a lot of times you make friends with your kids. Friends, parents. But we also took Dom out of regular school in fourth grade. So then it was like, well, he wasn't even in school meeting friends then. So. Yeah, I. I definitely understand that feeling of not having people close by and having a hard time meeting him.
- [09:01]
B
Me, too. I. When I moved here in to LA, it was to film 80 Day Obsession. I think we've talked a little bit about that before on the podcast, but I had, like. I developed a whole friend group and routine and everything in Nashville. And so moving here was a really big deal to leave that. And you and I were becoming friends. I was friend very close at the time with your sister Kaylee, but beyond that, I didn't really have any friends here.
- [09:35]
A
Right.
- [09:35]
B
And so it it is a lot. It's interesting because it is easier to develop friends when you have a routine like you're at the same place. Luckily, we filmed 80 Day Obsession for three months plus rehearsals before it was seven of us total in the cast. And also we were every day seeing people behind the scenes. And so I started feeling like, okay, I'm making friends. And it's interesting because it leads you to realize in certain moments, like at that moment, everyone in the cast was my friend. As far as I was concerned, we were friends.
- [10:11]
A
Yes.
- [10:11]
B
And I still think that. However, I don't keep in touch with all of them now. And it's not because I'm upset with them, but it just wasn't the thing. So when we wrapped filming though, I found myself sitting at home a lot and like not having friends. And so I texted Richardson from the cast and was like, I don't have friends. I need friends to hang out with. And I thought he was gonna be like, come hang out. He said, charlie will be your friend and put me in a three way text with someone who I had never met. And I was like, this is.
- [10:45]
A
So he didn't say, I'll be your friend. Way to go, Richard.
- [10:49]
B
But Charlie became one of my best friends and so it was really cool that it worked out that way. But then I can remember that that uncomfortable feeling like Charlie was like, okay, we're gonna go do this. Come meet up. Richardson wasn't there, so I was about to go meet up with a group of gay guys, which if you've never hung out with a group of gay guys, it's a dangerous moment. It can be, it can be really fun. But also if you wear one thing wrong, I mean, it's not an easy group to enter sometimes. So get real, real, real fast. So anyways, so I showed up and I think the first few times it was a little like nervous trying to make new friends. But I was just lucky because very quickly we became such good friends. So I went from having a group of friends where all of them, we were friends because of the convenience of us being together. That's not true, only in all of them, but that's how it started as a whole group to having a really good friendship that was always. You had to take the effort to meet up. We didn't work together.
- [11:55]
A
Right.
- [11:55]
B
We didn't, you know, frequent the same gym or anything like that. So it was pretty cool. But I'm lucky because I think there's two things. For me, what really worked was asking. And instead of Being like, oh, I'd like to go do a thing. I literally said, I need friends. Like, hi, guys. I need friends. But I think more people can relate to that than you realize. And, like, a lot of people then will say, okay, let's do stuff. And it will start to feel very natural. And the second thing is, I was just lucky because I met a cool. It's like, you can go on several dates with a romantic interest with different interests, and they're all duds.
- [12:32]
A
Or.
- [12:33]
B
I feel like in my friendship world, meeting my friend Charlie was like, yeah, yeah.
- [12:39]
A
It was like a love of her sight as a friend. Yes.
- [12:42]
B
Yeah.
- [12:42]
A
Well, I think it's so important to remember that. That all of us want human connection. And it's. It's that fear moment. Right. Which I don't know when we develop it, because, like you said, as little kids, we have no problem going up and being like, want to play? I have my jump rope. I have my whatever. Like, let's play or on the playground. Right. You go to a new school, but it's like the older you get, that fear of rejection comes in. But remembering that, like, everybody wants a friend, like, that's a beautiful thing to have a friend. So I. I mean, I need to take my own advice here, but I'm gonna give it, which is, I think one way, you know, in terms of meeting friends is you got to put yourself out there. And so if you have a routine, especially now, you guys look after the pandemic, right? After being, like, in our houses for so long and being afraid to be around people and all, like, I get it. Coming out of that, it's really hard to get back into the. Like. Like, you've settled into new routines. So many businesses went from being, like, offices to now you can work from home. So we're losing a lot of social interaction. So I think if you have a routine that doesn't give you a lot of social interaction, you gotta pick at least one thing. Like, it doesn't have to be every day, but, like, go try a new. I don't know, try a new fitness class.
- [14:01]
B
Yeah.
- [14:02]
A
And see if there's people there. And you might have to do it more than once. Or maybe go work from the coffee house a couple times a week and see if. Do you see somebody that comes in several times a week, too? Say hello? Maybe ask if you could sit at the same table if it's a crowded coffee house or, you know, it's just. Is there a interest that you have? Like, something you'd like to learn. Can you go take a class? Because again, even that will do it online. Oh, I want to learn. Blah, blah, blah. I'll take it online. Great. But is there a place you could go where other people would be doing that as well?
- [14:36]
B
Yeah. And I think too, realizing, like, you might want to start to do something to make friends, but allow that thing to become routine. Like, I. I've given my mom advice, too. My mom struggles, which they. My. Her whole life until 50 or 51, she lived on the same street that she was born on the street I was born and raised. My grandparents were across the street. That's where she was born and raised. And, you know, those Ohio blocks aren't big, like, right in this little small corner of the world. And she decided to move across the country to Arizona, and she has some friends, but it just. She doesn't feel that sense of connection that she felt with so many people in Ohio. So many people especially. So I told her, do something that's a regular routine, even if you walk.
- [15:28]
A
And.
- [15:28]
B
And this is sort of like coming from where I come from. We grew up in a part of the country where everyone had a front porch and would sit on it. And so if you walk the same route every or twice a week, but the same time, the same days, twice a week, you'll start to see the same people who are watering their lawn at that time. That, or. And then after a few times, after maybe a few weeks, if you go to the same yoga class at the same time, you'll start seeing. You'll start to become familiar with the person who's always also always there at that time. And you can say, I've seen you here a lot. Have you been coming? And it makes it easier to start up a conversation because it's not just out of the blue, like, this is my first time here. I came because I want friends.
- [16:09]
A
Right.
- [16:09]
B
You know, like, get into something and also those people will start to recognize you.
- [16:15]
A
Right. I will say this. I am. I would call myself an extrovert. Introvert. Okay? So if I know the person, if I'm in a small group, if I'm comfortable, I'm super outgoing. Put me. You put me around people I don't know. And. And it probably comes off bitchy, and it's not meant to at all. I just get very, like, uncomfortable very quickly. Like, you want me on a stage doing a workout. I got it. You want me in a little group of people I don't know, and you want me to initiate the conversation. I am in straight panic mode. I would rather stay home and be by myself.
- [16:52]
B
I'm exactly the same.
- [16:53]
A
Can't handle it. But I know that that is just something that I have to overcome. Because even in my neighborhood, people will say, like, I'll be out walking Buddy, and Buddy's my big dog. Buddy's almost 90 pounds, and he looks like a lion. I get stopped about Buddy all the time. Like, people are like, oh, my God, he's beautiful. And people will say to me, like, oh, can my dog. Like, can we come across and say hi? And there is a split second in me where I almost tell people, no, not for any. I don't. I say yes because Buddy's a super friendly dog. But there's just this moment of I'm gonna have to make small talk.
- [17:28]
B
Yeah.
- [17:28]
A
And I'm like, huh? Don't make me make small talk.
- [17:33]
B
Absolutely.
- [17:34]
A
But, like, how ridiculous. Like, they might be looking for a friend. And I'm the. Like, one of the biggest reasons I wanted to move into this neighborhood is because it is such a neighborhood. And it reminds me. Not that I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood, but it just reminds me of growing up where, like, everybody was out and about. And I still have those moments where I'm like, so I think we gotta just get over ourselves and be willing to strike up that conversation. And if it doesn't go anywhere, who cares?
- [17:58]
B
Yeah, I'm the same way as you. Like, people who haven't met me would think that I'm very extroverted, but I have. Especially as I've gotten older, for some reason, I've become more. I think I'm an extroverted introvert. Small talk is terrifying. There's nothing. There's nothing scarier because, like, half the time I'm listening to what they're saying, but I'm also like, fuck, what am I going to say when it's my turn to talk? Is it going to be interesting? Do I. Do I even know? And then I'm, like, looking and smiling. I'm like, fuck, I forgot to listen because I've been thinking about what they say. Yeah. I don't even remember this bitch's name.
- [18:33]
A
My God, I'm the worst with names.
- [18:35]
B
Yeah. And so sometimes, honestly, it's embarrassing. Someone says their name, and if I remember, I'll, like, blink three times and, like, say it over and over again. I, like, try to do something to make it, like, stick, register. Because otherwise I'm too busy thinking, like, having panic about meeting a new person. And at church, it's been like this. I've been going to the same church since the end of 2020.
- [19:03]
A
Okay.
- [19:04]
B
And I was four years not connecting with people. Yeah. I was not, like, trying to. I. I just get nervous about that. Well, so Nell goes to church with me now, and he's getting everybody's number, telling them how fabulous. Like, wait, he wants to talk to this person before we leave. I'm like, my heart's racing. I'm like, we gotta get to the car. And this last Sunday. And so he's been texting some people there, and he's like, we should get brunch. And I'm like, my insecure, awkward self is like, if they wanted us to go to brunch, they'd ask us. Like, this is ridiculous. And so we drove home to where we live. And he was like, oh. Paul said, meet us at this place. And I was like, okay. So we drove. And it's funny because they were like, you guys left that fast? And then drove all the way back to where we're having brunch. I was like, I'm really. I'm really afraid of small talk. And nothing's worse than a church foyer. Like, after the service, you're just like. They're like, somebody talk to me. Yeah. And so. But it went really well. It was really fun. And then the next day, we went to a little show, and then that's when the alcohol happened. And then yesterday I recovered from the alcohol, and today my back went out. So that's how it all connects.
- [20:12]
A
In all honesty, I become a stage five clinger. But let me explain. So, like, God, was it a year ago already? I had to. I went to. There was a event happening with my management company, and only a certain number of people got to go. It was first come, first serve. And I was so excited to go to this event because I'm like, I want to make more friends, and I don't even care where they're from. Like, I just want more people to connect with and. And interesting and all that stuff. And our friend Emily was going. So I was like, emily is gonna be there and Dylan's gonna be there. So at least I know somebody. Because to go to an event by myself and not know anybody, I've only done it one other time, and I'll tell you that in a second. But I was like, okay, I'm going. Let me just tell you, this was the most uncomfortable three days for me. Ah. Because everybody knew everybody. All. All of the girls knew everybody already. Because I'm newer With my management company, and they've all been with them for, like, longer and done other events. And I am just standing there, like, I don't know what to say, and I sort of get that, like, almost like, I don't know if it's imposter feeling or what, because it's like, oh, well, they have more followers or they have a bigger engagement. And they're probably. I'm older than them, so they're probably looking at me like, who's this crusty old lady? Like, 10 years older than me? Why is she trying to talk to me? She doesn't know anything. On trend. Right. So I'm like, I don't want to talk. So Emily's there, and I'm like. But then I also don't want to be, like, clingy to Emily because I'm like, that's weird. She's probably trying to mingle with all her friends. Right? So then it's like, oh, yeah. So I think I'm gonna go back to my room now.
- [21:47]
B
Yeah.
- [21:48]
A
And then I see that they're all out on, like, a party bus at midnight, and I'm like, why did I go back to my room? What an. Like, yeah. So shame on me. I. Don't get me wrong. It was nothing. They were all the sweetest. It was just me being in my head and being uncomfortable. I'm totally trying to make friends. The only other time I did it was I went on a retreat with 20 people to Monaco. Like, oh, just go fly to the other side of the world.
- [22:16]
B
Yeah.
- [22:17]
A
Didn't know anybody.
- [22:19]
B
The only way. The only thing about that is if nobody knew anybody.
- [22:25]
A
Some people knew other people, but I ended up. Because there was events planned, and it was. It wasn't quite such a big group. I did end up being able to talk to people more, but that was a lesson, man. Like. But I was proud of myself for that. I had a good time. I experienced another part of the world that I've never been able to go to. I met really nice people, and I keep more in touch with them on social media than I do, like, in person, because it was only a couple days.
- [22:53]
B
Yeah.
- [22:53]
A
But still, like.
- [22:54]
B
Yeah.
- [22:55]
A
So I think when it comes to meeting friends, we've got to get out of our own head, because there's other people that are probably trying to meet friends, too, that are feeling the exact same thing.
- [23:06]
B
Well, and there's one more thing I was thinking about for meeting friends that is really helpful. This also came from the conversation at church, but it was about like belonging. And that's really what. What friendship is like. You feel like you have your people and that's what we. We want. And so often times it's easy. And I have this realization that I do this of thinking of why I want friends, how I want to feel, like, what those relationships will bring to me. Not in a selfish, like way, but you just think when there's enriching your life. Yeah. When there's an absence of something in your life, like that connection, you desire it, so you're desiring to feel something. And I had this realization of how much more you feel that sense of belonging when you think about what you can give. And it also feels so much more comfortable. So like. And actually when Nell and I started dating, he start. Made. He helped me think about things in this way because I'd go, like, if I was going to the restaurant and did not feel like working and going there, he'd be like, remember, just remember to add value. And I was like, it made me feel so much better because instead of thinking of going someplace and just going through the motions, thinking, I have an opportunity to really add value to this situation for everyone who's there.
- [24:25]
A
Yeah.
- [24:25]
B
And so I think if you remind yourself about that when you're looking for friends, you're not a loser who doesn't have any friends, who just need some people to be nice to you so you have something to do, hopefully think. Think about what you have to do to share with someone something you like. Maybe if you like, whatever it is, you can invite someone to take a walk with you. If you like going on walks or. Or whatever it might be, think about the value you add. So when you're trying to build these friendships, it's a helpful reminder that you are also bettering someone else's life by being their friend.
- [25:00]
A
Well, and just the value of being there and being a friend being, you know, somebody who could listen. Somebody might need somebody to listen. Somebody who could bring some laughter to somebody else's life, shoulder to cry on somebody else, somebody for somebody to go do something with. So, like, as much as you're looking for it, if you're a good friend, you're giving that back too. So, yeah, that is. I like that. That's a really good way to think about it, is you have something to offer.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah.
- [25:27]
A
And that's beautiful. But so we get stuck in these thoughts of, like, why would somebody want to be friends with me? Or what am I bringing to the table? Or just maybe we don't even bother to Think that we just.
- [25:40]
B
Exactly.
- [25:40]
A
We forget all that and we're just so focused on is this person going to accept me, me.
- [25:45]
B
Right.
- [25:45]
A
That we don't even think, wait, am I going to accept them? Like, they, like, I might meet somebody and think just like in a relationship, like, nope, actually that's not right for me.
- [25:54]
B
Right, but you have, but you have so much to give to the person who's quote, deserving of it, you know, to the person that you click with.
- [26:02]
A
Right?
- [26:03]
B
Yeah. So it's. And the truth is it's always going to be a little awkward. Just like when we were kids. It doesn't change. And all of a sudden be. For most people, I think there is a little bit of a awkwardness to trying to make new friends. But just be brave, be bold, put yourself out there, be you and say, hey, wanna be my friend? Hey, you wanna come over?
- [26:24]
A
We're friends now.
- [26:25]
B
Yeah, we're friends now.
- [26:28]
A
Well, okay, so once we make a friend, then there's. Then there's. As adults, there's maintaining friendships. And I mean, God, this could be just a whole episode in and of itself. Because for me, again, if I look at my equinox days and like, some people that I was like, really close with, like my one girlfriend, Catherine, her and I, like, super close, went to the Maldives together, did all these things together, love her. Then she moved to Miami and we, I think we both tried really hard. Like, especially that first year she was gone and then there was no, like, nothing bad that happened at all. Love her to death. But we just sort of, you know, like, little more time goes between each call or each text and all of a sudden they're just not in your life the same way anymore. Or my friend. It's actually funny because I reached out to her recently and was just like, hey, I know we haven't talked in forever, but I just want to tell you I miss you. And like, the next time I'm in Miami, we should get together or the next time you come back to la, let me know. Or like, I have another girlfriend. Natalie. Literally, have known her since Dom was 2. Super tight for years. And then she got a job that took her out of state. Same thing. We kept in touch for a while and then most of it kind of turned into keeping in touch via social media because she had been gone for so long. Nothing bad. Love her to death, Love her family to death. But she recently moved back to la. The second she was back, it's like no time had passed, but like six years had passed.
- [28:00]
B
Yeah.
- [28:01]
A
So the friendship changed while she was gone. Not because something happened, just because that proximity changes. You're not seeing everybody. It's not, hey, let's go out tonight. You know, So I think the maintaining of friendships can get hard because people will have different expectations.
- [28:21]
B
Absolutely.
- [28:22]
A
Of how it should go or what you should bring or what you should do or what you shouldn't be doing in terms of.
- [28:29]
B
Yeah, what. You know, it's interesting. Like, what does it mean? Can you maintain a friendship when. With someone. When it starts to look different? Like, when I. For the first three years that I lived in LA, I went out with my WeHo friends three times a week, at least twice. Honestly, I had the time of my life. It was so fun and exciting, especially being, like, from Ohio. And then I moved to Nashville, which is a really cool town, but just I always thought about living in la. And then I just. I constantly was like. I would have these pauses, like, wow, I live here. This is so cool. I'm doing the fun things, going to fun restaurants. I'm out night sky, like the whole thing. And. But I don't live like that anymore. I would if I could, honey, but she can't.
- [29:21]
A
She can't. Let me just tell you. They say age ain't nothing but a number, but not when you party.
- [29:31]
B
So now it's like, how do you. As our friendships change? How can I maintain a friendship with people when it looks totally different? And I think that's where a lot of people sort of come to a crossroads of if you want to. Because it. I guess it's not a right or wrong. Hopefully. Hopefully someone has enough respect for the effort they put into a relationship that they would be respectful about it. But, you know, if my friends from back then were only my friend because at the. At the time, because I could go out with them as much as I did, then it would make sense that they didn't want to be friends anymore. But if they wanted to be connected to. With me for other reasons. And Charlie, who I was talking about, that's another good example. I don't go out like I used to. I work a different kind of job now. I need more sleep. I'm older. It's like I could keep going.
- [30:30]
A
That 40 is knocking on your door.
- [30:32]
B
It sure is. But. But a couple things, like, I have made sure I've sent a handful of texts, text messages, out of the blue when maybe a couple weeks go by, because like I said, it was a couple times a week that we would hang out where I just Say, hey, I want you to know I know I'm not around as much as I was, but you're still my best friend and we need to get together just because even though the dynamics of our friendship has changed, I still. I still want to be that friend through those changes in time. But that's what's hard as an adult. Like, sometimes you can do that and it's easy, and sometimes it's not so easy.
- [31:13]
A
Yeah, I think there's also too. There's like, there's all these different. I don't know if it's like, I don't want to call it levels. Like, oh, well, you're this level friend or you're that. There's just different types of friendships. Right? So like your friends that are here that live close to you, that probably have similar job types as you. Right. So similar schedules, all that, Those might be the ones you see the most. Or, or you might have, you know, you and Nell might have friends, be friends with another gay couple that lives close to you. And you guys do things all the time that are sort of in. You're out in Hollywood. I'm all the way out in Calabasas. I mean, it feels like we're lifetimes away, even though we're not. And I still see you guys all the time, too. But what I'm saying is, like, you might have that couple that you do things with all the time, but then you might have this other friend. Like, you might have a friend that lives in another state and you, you love them to death, but they might not be your everyday text or person just because again, they're just not right here. And that doesn't mean you don't want to share your life with them or anything like that. But there's time zones and, oh, they're awake and I'm still asleep. And no, now that I'm awake, they're at work and. And so reaching out to them and just making like, sort of that check on your friends. Right? Like, check on the people you care about. Even if it has been a while, like, nobody's ever going to be mad to get a text that says, hey, I'm thinking of you. Hey, I miss you. Just wanted to see if you're doing okay. I would say while DMs are great, at least send, like, maybe just be a little more personal. Make a little bit more effort of. To text. How you doing today?
- [32:49]
B
Yeah.
- [32:50]
A
Or really, like, go above and try to pick up that phone and you know, like, there's so many times you're driving, you're out walking. You could call while you're out walking the dog and just be like, hey, I just want to check in, see how your day is going. How's your week going? And I know we all have our stuff. I know we all get busy, but you do have to put some effort in. And then on the other receiving side of that, if you're the friend that gets a little bit mad the second somebody isn't blowing your phone up, inviting you everywhere, or maybe you have a friend that's got into a new relationship and you're mad because they're not around as much. Like, you got to give a little bit of grace to people. People. Right. If you're just like, oh, my God, they're doing this thing that I don't like, and you cut them off. That's what I meant when I was saying expectations earlier is like, you got to be a little bit aware of how much expectation you're putting on the friendship. And is it healthy? Is it realistic? Are you giving that same level of effort back? And if a problem arises, are you having a conversation about it, or are you just wallowing, angry in it? And again, kind of like not talking about it, because I do like, it's friends, you know, you're gonna disagree. There's gonna be a thing. You gotta have a conversation.
- [34:03]
B
I have a good friend who we used to spend a lot of time together. And, you know, there's a lot of things have happened that now we just don't spend as much time together. And a big part of it is because I'm in a relationship now. And I think that that is an issue that a lot of adult friendships end up facing. Like, I know my mom. She actually did connect with a friend from high school who also lived in Arizona after she moved.
- [34:38]
A
Oh, wow.
- [34:39]
B
And they were really close. But talk about clinger. This person was like, I'll be said to my mom. I'll be no one's second. And my mom was like, well, I have a husband and three kids and grandchildren. And so how do you feel about, you know, being someone's 20th?
- [34:57]
A
Yeah.
- [34:57]
B
Because you're down the totem pole. And so I think that that's an interesting thing too. And I'm a little crazy. It's. It is crazy. Yeah. This person. That's an extreme example.
- [35:07]
A
Yeah.
- [35:08]
B
But I told my friend who was who, who, if I'm being honest, I don't want to speak for them, but I think felt a little bit abandoned or dropped by me. I was like, you need to know that that is just not the case. I only have so many. Like, I am someone who requires friends who know that I love them and I know that they love me. Whether it is, like you said, a couple days or a couple years go by. My birthday is coming up. I have friends. I have a friend who I met coming. I met her, I think, when I was 13.
- [35:40]
A
Oh, wow.
- [35:41]
B
And in the last 10 years, I've seen her one time and she's coming to my birthday. But I still think of her as family. And so that's really, like, as an adult to me. It. It's especially. I mean, I hold on to friendships at all costs. If I can, I will. Like my friend Tara. You know Tara. She's my roommate in Nashville. She said she was like, if you weren't you, we wouldn't be friends. But you follow. You follow through.
- [36:07]
A
You call, you put the effort in.
- [36:09]
B
And now I don't need to. I hear from her. It's like. But a lot of people just aren't used to that.
- [36:13]
A
Right?
- [36:13]
B
So I think. I think understanding to be patient as things change, especially relationships and stuff like that, like romantic relationships affect the time you have for your friends.
- [36:24]
A
I was running a Bell Vital fitness group when the program first launched, and I'm, like, scrolling the group, you know, checking in on people, and I see a name, and I'm like, wait, what? It was my college roommate.
- [36:37]
B
Oh, wow.
- [36:38]
A
And I was like, oh, my gosh, Jamie, like, you're in the group. I haven't talked to her in years. Reached out to her, like, Was like, is your phone number still the same? She said yes, texted, and again, we hadn't talked in years. Nothing bad happened. Like, we were great friends all through college and a little while after. And then again, I moved to California. She's still in St. Louis, but now we text, like, once a week.
- [37:07]
B
Yeah.
- [37:08]
A
And I will honestly say she probably does a better job at reaching out to me than I do. Not because I'm like, don't want to talk to her. Just, you know, all the things. But it is one of those things of, like, sometimes a lot of time goes by and you can just reach out and be like, oh, wow. Yeah, things are still great. And we can kind of pick up and we can reminisce about how things were, and we can pick up. And she actually was like, like, my family and I are going. They're going somewhere in Europe this summer. And she's like, want to come? I don't know if I can because of work and stuff. But I was like, let me see if I can make it work. Why not? Right? So it's just one of those things where I just feel like we are almost quick to be super protective and to take things personally and to be like, oh, it's. This is how it happened, so we just can't be friends anymore. Instead of saying, well, maybe it's just changed. Like, maybe just the dynamic of the friendship has changed.
- [38:08]
B
Yeah, I mean, I, I told like, my friend who was feeling, like I said, a little abandoned or something. I literally was just very practical and I said, I don't want to dismiss your feelings because if I'm being truthful, I felt defensive. I wanted to be like, how dare you make this about you? You know, like, that was. I'm not saying that that was inappropriate, but that was my initial response.
- [38:29]
A
Okay.
- [38:30]
B
And I was like, just so you know, like, my love for you and for our friendship has not changed at all. But my. I started working at the restaurant. And so that's three nights. There's only seven nights in a week. So three of those nights gone.
- [38:47]
A
Yeah.
- [38:48]
B
Also, I got a boyfriend. So.
- [38:51]
A
So seven nights, exactly.
- [38:53]
B
I was like, so then there's that. And so.
- [38:56]
A
And you should also say really quick, sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but not only do you have a boyfriend, your boyfriend moved from Puerto Rico to California and moved in with you. So like, your like friends might not be used to it because you had this long distance relationship. So it was only talking, texting. And then you guys live together.
- [39:14]
B
Right.
- [39:14]
A
There wasn't even the stage of like, bring him out with us. I mean, yes, I know Nell goes out with, with you guys, but there wasn't this like, getting used to it. And now we're moving in.
- [39:22]
B
Well, some of my friends, I think were like thinking, okay, we're not gonna get any more one on one with Donald. And it's not that you're not gonna get any more, but I. I was like, I'm not gonna tell my boyfriend who moved here to be with me when I'm already gone three nights a week. Plus, that's the restaurant. Plus I. If I'm teaching dance or if something else is happening, if we have a one on one date night when I have a night for friends, I'm not going to be like, I know you moved here to be with me and don't know anybody, but you're not invited to this friend outing.
- [39:52]
A
Yeah, that's cool.
- [39:53]
B
So it's just a really good example of how, as an adult, things shift, circumstances shift. But that doesn't have to mean that you lose a friendship, even though it looks differently, but it's hard. And when you're the one, like, my friend was the one who. Their life. The only thing that changed is I, in their perspective, just sort of stepped out of it, you know, And I know that that's difficult. And I can imagine if. If I was in that position, I. I would probably feel a little bit left out or abandoned also.
- [40:28]
A
Right.
- [40:29]
B
But if you're in that position, you will be doing yourself a disservice if you don't stop. And really, like, the mature thing is to acknowledge that's what adult friendships are like. And sometimes there's ebbs and flows in terms of time, but that's not directly related to how much someone cares about you or the friendship.
- [40:48]
A
Yes.
- [40:49]
B
But the question is, because sometimes you do need to end friendships. What are those?
- [40:53]
A
Like, I was just gonna say it, but then sometimes you do lose a friendship.
- [40:56]
B
Yeah.
- [40:58]
A
Because there are friendships for a reason. There are friendships for a season and then there's friendships that are for a lifetime. And all three happen to everybody.
- [41:09]
B
Yeah. It's hard for me because there's something about, like, I have. I could name at least five friends right now that I've been friends with for 15 years or longer. A lot of people can't do that. And ones who I like.
- [41:22]
A
Yeah. I don't know if I have. I. Yeah.
- [41:25]
B
Yeah. And so I think that's just a tricky thing and everyone needs to know their boundaries for themselves. I feel like for me to end a friendship, somebody has to unapologetically, I'm not talking about a fight, but unapologetically, just disrespect me. Like, I'm not saying. And I say unapologetically because sure things happen. And you can say, I just want you to know I felt really uncomfortable when this happened.
- [41:57]
A
Right.
- [41:58]
B
As to how they respond. And actually, last time, I'm going to go back to this example, but my friend, I didn't apologize for the way that they felt that said that felt like they weren't seeing me as much because I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry that I got the. The extra job or my boyfriend or the things changed, but I am sorry that they felt that way.
- [42:19]
A
Right.
- [42:19]
B
I didn't want. And so that is okay. But if someone's like all of a sudden doesn't hold any regard for how you feel, then how could that person and be a friend Right. And so if there's conversation and still it's like, well, I don't really care how you feel about this. It's like, okay, well, I guess we aren't friends then.
- [42:36]
A
Yes. Yeah. First of all, I will say this. I am always envious. Like, when. When there are certain people, like, I meet that have had friends since, like, kindergarten and not envious in a. In a bad way. Just like a. Wow, that's super cool. Like, that is. I don't have that. I don't have that. That friend from childhood that I'm still friends with. Part of it was, we moved a lot, so, like, it was just. Just switching schools and those kind of things. But, like, yeah. I just don't have that friend that's been a part of my life since I was little. My cousins, that would probably be the closest thing. But I've lost a lot of friends. I've never been. In all honesty, I've never been the girl that's had a lot of friends ever. I've always had a couple closer friends. And then inevitably, over time, things. Something always ha. You know, like, obviously I have somebody like you that I've been friends with for a long time. Or like I said, my girlfriend Natalie, I've been friends with her since Dominic was 2. So that's 14 years. Like, that's. She might be one of the longest friendships I have, my college roommate. But, like. And I'm taking into account that there's years of not seeing these people.
- [43:44]
B
Yeah.
- [43:45]
A
In between. But there are times when. Well, I think there's two situations when. When a friendship can be lost and sometimes is just. You grow apart. So. Right. Like, even that proximity could be a thing. And if they move away or something and you're just like, over time, time passes and that friendship kind of fades. You don't have to take it as a bad thing. You don't have to start making stories up in your head, oh, they didn't like me. They didn't keep in touch with me because. Did you try to keep in touch with them? Like, so just acknowledging, like, and holding space for whatever time you did have with them and for that friendship being great for when it was. And then there are other times where certain things happen. Like there was. I'm not gonna say names because there's. Like I said, I can still hold space for beautiful parts of friendships that I had that don't have anymore. So. There was a girl I was friends with when I first moved to la, and I was friends with her for, like, the first 10 years I was here, she was in my wedding party. She was in the delivery room when I was giving birth to Dom. And as my career with Beachbody took off, she was in a similar career in the health fitness sort of dance world. It didn't sit well with her that I was rising, and she just pulled away. And I would try to talk to her about it. And then finally one time, we sat down and I got a you owe me everything for where you're at, which was super odd. It's like, I don't understand why. Like, last I checked, I decided to get my personal training certification. I studied. I've worked my ass off for years. I came up with my portion control. Like, how do I owe you? I didn't get it. Anyways, so that friendship went away. I had another friend maybe five years after that. We were very close for a long time. Dom and her daughter were super close. Like, we did everything together, and I thought everything was great. And then things started to feel not so great when we would hang out. Like, it started to get to be. Like, when other friends would be around, I would almost feel like it was like a little mean girl towards me. Like, they were sort of interacting, but, like, I would try to interact, and they wouldn't. They wouldn't let me come into the conversation or whatever. And it was crazy. Like, I was at home one day, and her. Her boyfriend showed up at my house, and he was like, I have to tell you something. And I was like, what? Like, this is weird. And he's like, she's not your friend. And I was like, what are you. What are you talking about? And I was like, I didn't know if it was because they were, like, having an argument then themselves. And he's like, I know you're gonna think it's because we're. We're having an argument and breaking up. And he's like, that's not what it is. He's like, I just can't watch or treat you like this anymore. And he pulled out his phone, and he opened up the text thread between the two of them, and he showed me things that she was saying about me behind my back. And I just remember sitting there being like, what? Like, how was I such a bad judge of character? Like, this is somebody I literally was spending four and five days a week with, and the kids were together. And that was so hard because not only did I have to end that friendship, that was Dom's little best friend. I mean, this was a long time ago. He was young, but he was like 6. And he didn't understand why he couldn't see his friend anymore. And that was heartbreaking to me.
- [47:19]
B
Yeah.
- [47:20]
A
To not be able to explain to him why he had to lose a friend. Oh, it still gets me.
- [47:26]
B
Yeah.
- [47:27]
A
Yeah. Why he had to lose a friend because I lost a friend.
- [47:31]
B
Yeah. It sucks. It also makes you realize because that's losing a friend. But it's like, what kind of friend did you have?
- [47:41]
A
Right.
- [47:41]
B
If that's. If they're capable of sending those texts and talking about you that way and wanting you to fail. Another thing you said, I just want to touch on when you are friend. Like, we're all humans doing this life together. And so my friends, no matter what I've done for them, they don't. I can't imagine going to anyone and being like, you owe me.
- [48:02]
A
Right. Or.
- [48:03]
B
Yeah, like, this is. Well, this is what being alive is. And the fact is none of us are doing it alone.
- [48:09]
A
Right.
- [48:09]
B
And we're all in one way or another influencing and affecting life for everyone that we're in contact with. Like, if you, if you really want to get the theological, we can talk about the ripple effect, but when you start getting in that energy of, well, you owe me because I. Blah, blah, blah, it's like, were we ever friends or was this just about what you thought you were doing for me or. You know what I mean?
- [48:33]
A
Yeah. If you're keeping a. A tab. Well, I did this for you, so you owe me this. And if you, if, like, if it has to tit for tat, that's maybe a partner type. I like, I don't know. I want to. That's a transactional, I guess. I don't know how, I don't know how you would say that. But like, I wouldn't call it a.
- [48:49]
B
French friendship because friendships, it's like you just do life together. Like, I'm not. When I cook dinner for my friends, I'm not going to be like, hey guys.
- [48:58]
A
I mean, 475 a plate.
- [49:00]
B
Exactly. I did the math. And just so you know, there's no gratuity included. Right. I'm just kidding. But I think. And you know, that's just an example. It really. Anyone who could say that aren't they don't have the maturity to be a friend.
- [49:19]
A
Yeah. It is hard though, because like I said, there's like, you have all these amazing memories and so you hold space for that and love and appreciation for that. But then it's almost heartbreaking that that isn't there or was that real? And I will say, I, you know, I. I mean, it's crazy that that bugged me. I don't. Or got to me, because there's probably, you know, there's. There's a lot of trauma that comes attached to those kinds of things, like hurt feelings that you sort of just push aside. And I can recognize, like I said, that there are people that come into your life for reasons and seasons and, and that doesn't mean every single person has to stay forever. Even relationships are like that. Like, you know, a significant other can come in and be there for a significant amount of time and help change you into the person that you are, but that might not be your forever person. So I can acknowledge those things and, and be like, okay, that was then, this is now. But I think those are the things that make it harder to open yourself up the next time to try to approach somebody at the coffee house when you're walking the dog because you're just like, oh, you get a few of those under your belt, and all of a sudden it's like, woof. Yeah, maybe I'll just do this on my own.
- [50:36]
B
Yeah. It's. It's vulnerable as adults, too. I think for some reason we. We put friends. Is this, like luxury but not necessity in our lives? Like we think our kids. Maybe if you have kids or your family or your spouse. Those are all things that need a piece of your. Your pie, your career. But friends are like a special bonus. And I, I do think it's important for us all to acknowledge friends are a necessary part of life. I am not.
- [51:05]
A
Not.
- [51:05]
B
I'm not happy, I'm not fulfilled, and I'm not living my best life if I don't have friends in it.
- [51:11]
A
Yeah.
- [51:12]
B
And knowing that, just like everything else, that's a piece of that pie. Your spouse, your kids, your job, they take work.
- [51:19]
A
Yeah.
- [51:20]
B
And boundaries. So just doing the best you can to manage that. But I, you know, there is no magic answer. But my main thing that I would just remind myself and anyone who's listening who relates to any of these conversations is communicate your needs and also really open your heart to listen to what someone else is saying, too. Because otherwise, as an adult with all those moving pieces, there's no way you're going to be able to maintain a friendship.
- [51:49]
A
Yeah. I think what I would say is be the friend that you want. So don't. Don't have expectations from your friends if you're not giving the same level of effort back. And if you're not. Then be okay with. Just be okay with the distance or the time that might pass between. Yeah, but don't be like again if. Yeah, be the friend that you want. So like reach out, call, ask to make plans, ask to see them and you know, you should start to get that same reciprocation back. I'm so. Listen, we have game night Sunday. Oh, I'm so excited.
- [52:25]
B
Me too. I'm so excited.
- [52:27]
A
Our friend Tori and tj. Tori's been gone for two years. Two years. She's been on tour with Taylor Swift.
- [52:32]
B
I don't think I've seen her since we filmed Real Time.
- [52:34]
A
Okay, that's insane.
- [52:36]
B
Maybe at your house for.
- [52:37]
A
I was gonna say I think for.
- [52:38]
B
An event, but not in a. Not since the tour.
- [52:40]
A
Yeah, but I would see her constantly. Cuz her and her husband would come over all the time. TJ was. He would help film my reels and so would Tori. And then she booked Taylor, which was so amazing. But here's what's funny. Like, because she's finally back in town. I went to lunch with them a couple weeks ago for the first time. It was like she had never been gone. I mean, I couldn't wait to catch up and hear all the things. But it had literally been two years since I had seen her. And I was like, hi, what's going on? Like, we sat, we talked for hours. Now we were like, okay, let's get this game night going. We're gonna do game night and dinner and it's gonna be amazing. So when that time does pass, you can still reach out and pick right back up where you left off. If totally. If you want to or just.
- [53:26]
B
Yeah. And another thing that came to mind, Brene Brown says something that I quote all the time and it's be generous with your assumptions. And so my friend Charlie, who I was talking about earlier, now oftentimes, like, for example, this last Saturday night was random that I didn't work at the restaurant and Charlie was like, he was out. I saw on his socials he was doing his thing and I didn't get invited and I had an opportunity at that moment and I. And that's happened a handful of time with a lot of my friends. And then I remember I'm not the go out friend anymore. But that doesn't mean I'm not the friend. And that doesn't mean that if I text him and said, if I would have said, hey, I'm not working, I'd love to go out. Are you doing anything? And. And asserted myself that way, like I'm. I know I'm a good time still. She's still got it if she needs to. And I would be included. But I thought those. It's easy. I share that because it's easy for any of us to have our feelings hurt by something like that, like not being invited or feeling you're not included.
- [54:30]
A
Right.
- [54:30]
B
That doesn't go away when you're an adult. It's just as strong or even stronger sometimes and probably stronger because we see.
- [54:37]
A
It more now than you ever did end at the.
- [54:38]
B
A kid. Exactly. On socials and stuff like that. So I think about those words, be generous with my assumptions. And instead of feeling like, oh, they don't want me there, or I'm not included anymore, I can just realize, you know, things change. They love me, they're doing their thing, I'm doing my thing. And we can connect at any moment if we just set. Make that intention.
- [54:59]
A
Yeah. So if it's important.
- [55:02]
B
Yeah.
- [55:02]
A
Yeah.
- [55:03]
B
Well, this has been fun.
- [55:04]
A
This, this has been great. But I hope we help because like I said, we did get so many emails about it. It was not just one or two. We got quite a few emails of people asking about. Talk about friendship, how do I make friends or how do I confront an issue with a friend? You know, I think you do it always with grace.
- [55:23]
B
Yeah.
- [55:23]
A
Always with love in your heart. You have that conversation, even if it's a hard one. You let them know you miss them and, you know, you move forward from there. So, yeah, we hope it's helped. We're always here to be your besties.
- [55:37]
B
That's right. We're not going anywhere.
- [55:39]
A
We are not. We're here for a good time and a long time.
- [55:42]
B
That's right.
- [55:43]
A
If you guys want to reach out to us, you can do it@everythingsperfectpodcast gmail.com.
- [55:50]
B
Make sure you make sure you like and subscribe to our channel. Please leave comments anywhere that you're either listening or watching this. We love to read them and connect with you all. And we. We really appreciate you listening and supporting us.
- [56:02]
A
We'll see you guys next time.
- [56:04]
B
Bye.