Everything's Perfect Except...What Counts as Cheating?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everything’s Perfect Except...What Counts as Cheating?

Podcast: Everything’s Perfect
Hosts: Autumn Calabrese & Donald Stamper
Date: July 7, 2026
Episode Theme: Exploring what counts as cheating in modern relationships—including open relationships, boundaries, sexual exploration, and honesty between partners. The hosts give frank, funny, and supportive advice to listener-submitted relationship dilemmas.

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Episode Overview

In this refreshingly candid episode, Autumn and Donald open up the conversation around fidelity, non-monogamous relationships, and what counts as “cheating.” Responding to listener questions, they dissect complexities faced by couples navigating open arrangements, the emotional realities of exploring sexuality, and the importance of communication and boundaries. With real talk, laughter, and complete honesty (plus some chaotic background noise thanks to Autumn’s neighbors!), the duo digs into the mess, confusion, and growth that comes with figuring out one’s relationship rules.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Dilemma: Finding Connection in an Open Relationship

[01:50]

• A listener from Menorah, Ohio shares that she (bi) and her husband (straight) are in an open relationship but only seek to date/play together with women.
• Their struggle: Consistent ghosting, a flaky dating community, and challenges in finding women for ongoing connections rather than just casual flings.
• They ask for advice on meeting quality people without burning out.

Hosts’ Reactions:

• Donald admits, “I actually have none [of this experience],” but likens the struggle to the general dating app experience: “It is a numbers game. You just have to keep going, keep swiping, keep matching.” [04:21]
• Autumn jokes about app fatigue and gender roles: “I need some manliness because I got enough male masculine energy of my own. So I’m gonna really need you to step up. Don’t make me do that too.” [05:46]
• They discuss that finding authentic connection is difficult regardless of orientation or arrangement, as apps can foster “too many options” and non-commitment. “You connect and then they just never talk. ...It can be frustrating because people connect and then disappear.” – Autumn [04:45]/[07:27]

Conclusions & Advice:

• Keep at it (“numbers game”), but also consider location. Being in a less diverse area (like Ohio) might make community-building harder; maybe travel or explore niche events/cruises.
• Key question: What kind of connection are you seeking (a “throuple” vs. friends-with-benefits vs. casual)? Clarify your intentions and be honest with potential partners.
• The term “ethically non-monogamous” comes up as potentially more accurate than “open” for agreements emphasizing boundaries, consent, and clear communication. [19:05]
• “Are you looking for a throuple? Are you dating? Are you looking to date a few people at a time? How long are you looking?” – Autumn [21:19]

2. Exploring Boundaries: What Actually Counts as Cheating?

[21:51]
A second listener shares her story:

• She made out with her female friend (while both were drunk at a party), and now wonders if it’s cheating on her boyfriend or just “something to explore.”

Hosts’ Discussion:

• Autumn is decisive: “Yes, it is cheating. Like…your boyfriend might be into it, but if you don’t tell him and you’re not giving him the chance to decide how he feels about that…you’re still not being honest and open.” [24:01]
• Donald reflects, “I highly doubt that…like, yes, it’s cheating, but it’s not cheating in the same way as if some guy came up and started making out with her and she reciprocated that.” [24:52]
• They explore gendered and emotional double standards, with Autumn emphasizing: “If I was with a guy and he told me, like, ‘babe, I made out with a dude,’ you still cheated… I’m gonna be hurt in a different way.” [25:15]
• The complexity of context—if it was just drunk/casual vs. something you actually want to pursue.

Advice for Listener:

• If you want to explore further, honesty is essential: “If you have interest in continuing to explore, you should definitely have a conversation with your boyfriend.” – Bluff/Donald [30:33]
• If it was “just a kiss” and meant nothing, context matters, but the risk of secrecy causing worse problems later is real. [33:37]
• Autumn: “I also feel like she probably needs to have a conversation with the girl... What was that? Is she even looking to explore it?” [35:21]
• Key: Figuring out what you want and then being upfront with everyone involved.

3. Cheating, Jealousy, and Open Communication

[49:21]

• Autumn and Donald dig into the idea that emotional security and honesty are core to strong relationships.
• “If you actually want a partner and you have one, then...being able to be vulnerable with that person...having that conversation about, ‘You know what? I kind of…this happened and I’m into it...’”—Donald [49:29]
• Autumn: “...if you’re in a real partnership, then you should be able to have those conversations. You should be able to love each other through it. ...if you love the person as much as you say...you should be able to hold space for, ‘I want you to be your most happy.’” [49:25]
• They discuss how societal norms impact expectations of monogamy, and how labeling or suppressing urges can create unhappiness.

4. Lighter Moments & Anecdotes

• The episode is punctuated by loud music and bird noises from Autumn’s neighbors, which leads to running jokes: “If I’m involuntary twerking, there’s something not part of the plan.” – Donald [01:31]
• Donald recounts being “hit on” as a bartender: “There were a handful of times...where I’m like, ‘Oh, this couple is...on the prowl together.’” [14:20]
• Cheeky analogy: “Talk about a tip!” (on couples picking up wait staff) – Autumn [15:18]
• Donald: “We need to soundproof our studio. I feel like I’m at a rave and the intro of a Disney movie or something.” [08:24]
• Playful back-and-forth about gender roles and the importance of manliness: “I need a little...Yeah, I need some manliness...” – Autumn [05:46]

5. The Fluidity of Sexuality & Labels

[44:42]/[47:21]

• Donald discusses the spectrum of sexuality, the nature vs. nurture debate, and how experimentation doesn’t always signal orientation.
• “I think sexuality is a spectrum. I don’t think you are either gay, straight, or bi. I think that people live within the spectrum and can see different...people as like they’re attracted to them or not.” – Donald [47:21]
• Stories about gendered differences in how sexual exploration is perceived and policed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It is a numbers game. You just have to keep going, keep swiping, keep matching, and one at some point…hopefully, maybe you’ll find someone.” —Donald, on dating apps [04:21]
• “Yes, it is cheating. Like…your boyfriend might be into it, but...if you don’t tell him...you’re still not being honest…” —Autumn [24:01]
• “If I was with a guy and he told me, like, ‘babe, I made out with a dude,’ you still cheated. ...If all of a sudden you find that that’s what you’re attracted to, I’m gonna be hurt in a different way.” —Autumn [25:15]
• “If you actually want a partner…being able to be vulnerable with that person…having that conversation…” —Donald [49:21]
• “Having communication, especially if you’re…in a committed relationship with someone, is the most important.” —Donald [40:13]
• “If you put the shoe on the other foot…is he allowed to go have sex with a man? ...If she flips the script…would you be like, ‘what the fuck?’” —Autumn on fairness in boundaries [38:06]
• “We need to soundproof our studio. I feel like I’m at a rave and the intro of a Disney movie or something.” —Donald (about the background chaos) [08:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:50]—First listener email: struggles with open relationship dating
• [04:21]—App dating as a “numbers game” and gender role banter
• [09:28]—Navigating ghosting and burnout; are they seeking a throuple or ongoing friends-with-benefits?
• [19:05]—Defining “ethically non-monogamous”
• [21:51]—Second listener: Made out with a female friend; is it cheating?
• [24:01]—Hosts debate if same-sex contact counts as cheating
• [35:21]—Autumn: “She probably needs to have a conversation with the girl…”
• [44:42]—Sexual fluidity, trauma, and nature vs. nurture
• [47:21]—Labels, experimentation, and the sexuality spectrum
• [49:21]—The necessity of open, vulnerable communication
• [53:36]—Stories on jealousy, boundaries, and how other couples negotiate attraction

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Key Takeaways

• Clarity & Honesty are vital, regardless of how “open” a relationship is. Everyone deserves to know the boundaries and expectations.
• Same-Sex Encounters within heteronormative relationships still “count” as cheating if outside the boundaries set.
• Sexuality Is Fluid: The hosts challenge binary thinking, suggesting that sexual preference is a spectrum, not a set category.
• Societal Norms Limit Us: The pressure to “turn off” attraction when coupled can box people in and lead to suppressed needs.
• Vulnerability Strengthens Partnerships: Real love means space for “messy” conversations and personal growth, even if it’s tough.

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Listener Calls to Action

• Share details and context for better advice (“We really do need more information!”).
• Have “the talk” with partners if considering exploring outside the relationship.
• Input from listeners on similar experiences is welcomed at [e-mail] (with “Phone a Friend” in the subject).

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Summary in One Sentence:
Autumn and Donald deliver wise, witty, and nuanced advice on love, openness, and “what counts as cheating,” urging honesty, self-knowledge, and fearless communication—reminding us that perfection isn’t the goal, but growth and real connection are.

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Transcript

[Bluff]

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[Autumn]

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[Bluff]

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[Autumn]

Blast with berry flavors and cold foam.

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[Autumn]

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[Autumn]

apparently we're in club. Everything's perfect. I literally so angry about it right now. My neighbors every weekend and I'm not the one to complain, but they have, I think kids that are like college age and they turn their music up so loud in the backyard and it's the whole day like it's thumping right now in here and it has been since 11:30 this morning. So if I get up in the middle of this podcast and walk out, you know where I went. If I could sing along the lyrics. It's too loud. We're inside.

[Bluff]

If I'm involuntary twerking, there's something not part of the plan.

[Autumn]

Yeah, it's too loud. Any who so are we kicking off with a phone? A friend.

[Bluff]

Let's kick off with a phone of friends.

[Autumn]

We had an interesting one and it almost makes me wonder a little bit like what people might think mine in your life is like. But I know it ain't this. But we're going to read it and do our best, okay? We are going to keep the person anonymous. Shout out to Menorah, Ohio, because that's where they're from, she says. My husband and I are looking for some phone a friend advice. We're in what I'd call an open relationship is situation. I'm bi, he's straight, and we only date play together with women. It's something we genuinely enjoy together. And honestly, it brought us closer as a couple. The problem is the community can feel incredibly flaky. We've been ghosted more times than we can count. Conversations fizzle out constantly and it feels like finding people who actually want connection is almost impossible. We've had some amazing experiences and would love to continue exploring this part of our relationship, but we feel stuck. We've tried Tinder Field, I don't know what that is, DB Dating, Facebook groups, etc and at this point it feels like we've met everyone in our area already. Without sounding shallow or shady, physical attraction does matter to us and we found it surprisingly difficult to find people we genuinely, we genuinely connect with, both physically and personality wise. We're also not looking for random one night stands. We really enjoy building friendships and ongoing connections with the people we meet. But it seems like most people either want something super casual or disappear after talking for a while. Do you have any advice for couples like us? Are there better ways to meet people, build connections or navigate the lifestyle without burning out from the ghosting and inconsistency? Thanks. Love the podcast and both of you so much.

[Bluff]

Okay, first of all, thank you for the tea.

[Autumn]

I know I'm here for this.

[Bluff]

I don't have a lot of firsthand experience in this area but.

[Autumn]

You don't have a lot or you have none?

[Bluff]

I. I actually have none.

[Autumn]

Okay. I was like I got none.

[Bluff]

But I do think like, because whether someone's looking for a third or whatever, when you're on the apps looking for a person to fit into what you're looking for, it can feel exhausting. And I think like if we look at it that way, okay, everyone can relate to it.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

You know, it's difficult because you finding some. So I'm thinking about when I'm on the app, when I, when I'm on, when I used to be on dating apps and things like that. You are, you're looking for someone you're physically attracted to and then maybe the conversation starts good. On the app and then you meet them and it's really hard to find someone to actually click.

[Autumn]

Of course.

[Bluff]

So I get that that's frustrating. And to that my advice which I, I want to dive in more into the whole thing. But to that my advice is it is a numbers game. You just have to keep going, keep swiping, keep mess and one at some point, probably when you last least expect it, hopefully maybe you'll find someone.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

That fits what you're looking for in that moment.

[Autumn]

I mean I'm on one app.

[Bluff]

I think that's your problem.

[Autumn]

Okay. Super casually on one app. This music is so hard to concentrate. I'm on one app casually, but on that particular app it's like, I swear to God, like people connect and then they just never talk. So it'll be like, oh, you swiped. And they swiped. And then like, I tend to try to wait for the guy because I'm like, hello, be a man. Like, make the con. Make the first move. Like, great, we've connected. And not to say I won't. I have made, like, initiated the conversation. But that right there already is like, strike one.

[Bluff]

I know. I agree because I am obviously like, very. Because I would be the first person to be like, oh, we don't need to conform to gender norms, blah, blah, blah. But also I feel like if you're talking about a straight man and a straight woman or at least two people who are like a man and a woman who are potentially interested in each other, the man should initiate. I think that's being a gentleman. And I still call me old fashioned.

[Autumn]

I believe in being a gentleman. And also, like, I mean, for me, you know, I'm like, I am so in control of everything in my life. Provide all the things. I need a little. Yeah, I need some manliness because I got enough male masculine energy of my own. So I'm gonna really need you to step up. Don't make me do that too. Yeah, but.

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[Autumn]

Visit spinquest.com for more details. This is the story of the one. The one who keeps multiple buildings running smoothly day after day. Plumbing that flows, H vac that hums.

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[Bluff]

Never heard.

[Autumn]

And then I never, like. So we were going back and forth for several days, and then all of a sudden, like, when it came time to meet up. Yeah, I mean, whatever. I wasn't.

[Bluff]

It's not like you were. Yeah. Just waiting around, hoping we went out

[Autumn]

and did our thing, but I was just like, oh, okay, weird. So I get that aspect of it.

[Bluff]

Yeah. And the thing is, I've said this before. I don't know if I've said it on the podcast before or not, but the birds and the music. Okay, let me get back to my subject. Sorry.

[Autumn]

What are they trying to do?

[Bluff]

We need to sound our studio. I. I was. I feel like

[Autumn]

this is so messed up.

[Bluff]

It's hilarious. It's like a game. It's like a challenge.

[Autumn]

Oh, my God. The microphone speaking.

[Bluff]

I know.

[Autumn]

The birds are crazy.

[Bluff]

Yes.

[Autumn]

The music is like. It's so distracting.

[Bluff]

I feel like I'm at a rave and like, at the intro of a Disney movie or something. With the sleeping beauty. Yes.

[Autumn]

But anyways, try to do right by this boat of friends.

[Bluff]

The app. Yes, the apps, I think, make it where people feel like they have so much potential to meet with people. But it's like you. It's ideally, you're like, yeah, let's hang out, let's hang out. And then you never do. Like, when I was looking, when I was single and on the apps, a lot of guys would ask me out and I would do the same thing. Like what we're saying that we hate. I'd be like, yeah, that sounds great, but not really follow through.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

Not really show up.

[Autumn]

I'm literally crying at the aggressive noises. Okay.

[Bluff]

So I do. I think the ops are a numbers game, and sometimes it's good to be on more than one. But I do want to say, I think it's this couple. Sounds like a pretty cool couple. She's bi, he's straight. They figured out something that works for both of them. It's made them grow closer.

[Autumn]

Good for you guys.

[Bluff]

That's great.

[Autumn]

I got no judgment on it, but, yeah, I mean, I'll do my best to give some advice, but I don't. Working from a unknown position here, like, because she was saying, oh, the community is flaky. And I'm like, God, I didn't even really stop to think that there would be be that community. But I guess.

[Bluff]

You know what? She didn't say that. I want to know what are they looking for? A regular friend with benefits or a girlfriend?

[Autumn]

Because she kind of alluded it because

[Bluff]

it makes sense to like if I imagine that I am a single person, that a bi person who is into meets this couple and they're looking for someone and that's fun. I, I think about my position, where do, where is my long, where do I fit in any kind of potent somewhat long term picture?

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

And I think that that's probably the challenge because some people are probably there for a good time but not a long time and it sucks because they care about connecting with someone not just physically but also their personality and stuff.

[Autumn]

Right. Well, so I was kind of curious too because it's like the way it's written. She said a lot of people are just looking for like a one time thing and that's not what they're looking for. But she said we genuine genuinely enjoy building friendships and connections. So I guess my question becomes are they looking for multiple people to friends with benefits? Because yeah, like you said, I guess for that third person coming into that situation it's like, well, what am I coming into? Like are you looking to bring me in as a part of the relationship? And it's going to be the three of us for like a long term because if not then it explains why they're looking for a one night stand. And if you're going to be like, oh no, we're just, we want to play with you and date you and play. Like, are you looking to date multiple people? Well, there's a lot of people that don't want to date multiple people.

[Bluff]

Well and the thing is, yeah, they need to find because if someone is just like if someone is single and they have that maybe they, it's fun, they have a fun summer, whatever. But then if that person meets someone, him not being bi is the problem. So whoever wrote this, tell your husband. Are they married?

[Autumn]

Yeah, but why is that a problem that he's not bi? They just want to be with another

[Bluff]

girl because that girl is going to want a relationship probably at some point and unless they want to end up being a throuple, like a kid, a

[Autumn]

couple, then that person is like, well then I'm just here for a little bit.

[Bluff]

It seems like it'd be easier for them to find friends if, if he was also bi. They could find another bi couple because then each, because then they each because they're not those. Yeah. So I'm.

[Autumn]

So they need to find another.

[Bluff]

Maybe you should try. A lot of people have been in my DM saw me being gay as a choice. So maybe he could choose it. Maybe he could choose bisexuality.

[Autumn]

Don't start.

[Bluff]

I'm sorry. Okay, go on.

[Autumn]

So essentially what they're looking for, I guess, is by woman, Right? Like, because she has to be attracted to the girl, she also has to be attracted to the guy. They have to determine, are they looking to date one person or are they. Look. Like you said is. Are they looking to make it a throuple or are they, like, looking the. The way she said it was date slash play. So are you looking to play? Are you looking to date? I don't know. Like I said, I got no experience here. I have no idea what the rules are of this.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

I don't know how you would find somebody. Are there cruises? Are there trips? Like, are there places that you could go where. Yeah, I mean, you meet people like this. Like, I mean, there's gay cruises, Right. Or there. There's cruises for the LGBTQ community. So I guess with it, they would kind of fall into that.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

So maybe they could do that. You're not necessarily going to meet somebody from men or Ohio. I don't know. I don't have Good. Like, besides the apps, I don't know where you would meet.

[Bluff]

I think the apps are.

[Autumn]

I have more questions. I, like, want to get this person on the phone and be like, I have questions for you. How do you approach it like that? Like, you don't just go out to a bar and see a pretty girl and go up and be like, well,

[Bluff]

you know, when I.

[Autumn]

Are you into. Me and my husband, when I worked

[Bluff]

at Pomp in West Hollywood.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

There were a few male female couples. Okay. Who I was like, oh, they're inviting me. And. Yeah. Like, they both compliment me in ways that it's like, this is very sexually. It's one thing to be like, oh, you're. You're. You're so good looking, or something like that. Where I wouldn't look at. I wouldn't think anything. Because they have eyes.

[Autumn]

Yes, exactly.

[Bluff]

Obviously stating the fact.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

But there were a handful of times, like, I'd say, like three or four times. The one is really sticking out in my mind where I'm like, oh, this couple is like, they're out and they're on the prowl together. And it's a. A man and woman who's totally into each other. And a friend I worked with actually, who was a bartender there, a couple came and they picked him up and they went and, like, had a night.

[Autumn]

My question is, did the husband get involved with the friend? With your friend? Yeah. Or did he just want to watch your friend do things to his wife?

[Bluff]

No, it was. They were. He was bi. I don't know if the woman was bi, but because my friend was a guy, I guess it doesn't matter in the situation, but they're just like a open couple. That's just something they do. Which as much as, like, you know, I've seen some things. I'm still not used to that. And I remember being like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe people just come out to the restaurant and.

[Autumn]

And pick somebody up.

[Bluff]

The wait staff, like, talk about a tip.

[Autumn]

Yeah, right? I mean, yeah, maybe they need to. Maybe this couple needs to take a trip to la. You definitely do need to be where there's. And I'm just. I mean, I grew up in Ohio, Cleveland. Like, I don't know that there's some big LGBTQ community. So you're already maybe in an area that's a little harder. Harder to meet those types of people. Like, people looking for that kind of relationship.

[Bluff]

I don't. I don't know, but I. Girl, I do wish you and your husband the best. Best.

[Autumn]

Yeah. I hope you find what you're looking for.

[Bluff]

I feel like, honestly, it sounds like maybe you guys want another partner. Like, a little bit more like an.

[Autumn]

Like, I have a feeling, based on the way that read that they are not looking for a third person. It's now just the three of us. It sounds like they're looking to meet people, to date, have friends with benefits. I would guess that that's probably the sticky point.

[Bluff]

Well, the hard thing is the hard thing, and maybe this is because I'm so such an emotionally driven person, is let's say you and I are a couple. Let's say you and I are this couple, okay? And we meet some girl, okay? We're like, this is great, because she's fun, she's a friend, she hooks up with us, we enjoy the company, the conversation's nice, whatever. But at some point, if she starts dating either a woman or another guy, right?

[Autumn]

Then that relationship with us, then that's done, Right? But it also sounds to me like it would be like, oh, if we're this couple and we meet this one girl and we're dating her, we're still on the prowl for another one.

[Bluff]

The way it reads, you'd like more than.

[Autumn]

Yeah, it looks like they're not just, like, trying to have this one. And, like, look, you're gonna be long term, quote unquote, committed with us. It looks like it said we like to find another girl to date slash play with.

[Bluff]

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[Autumn]

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[Bluff]

Go easy.

[Autumn]

Sold my car on Carvana.

[Bluff]

Amazing offer, really.

[Autumn]

I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check?

[Bluff]

No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once.

[Autumn]

Okay. That's fair.

[Bluff]

It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly.

[Autumn]

Inexplicably good offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up. These may apply. So it sounds like, you know, just like we have multiple friends in a friend group. It sounds like tonight we're calling over Becky, and tomorrow we're calling over Vanessa.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

And next week we'll call over Mary. Like it sounds. I'm not saying that it is that like, that many, but it sounds to me a little bit more like we want to have a few friends.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

That we can play with.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

And I would say, like, now, hopefully they're being open and honest with whoever they're bringing in and saying, like, this is what we're into and this is not an exclusive. Just you coming into this. And I. I don't know. There's not enough context.

[Bluff]

So there's a term that I recently learned and I. You. I told you about this.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

On this trip. But I guess we could tell the listeners because I think it's a new emerging term.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

I first heard about it through my. One of my clients was telling me a story about. About someone that they know.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

Who is. It's called ethically non monogamous.

[Autumn]

And I was like, say what now?

[Bluff]

Yeah. And I was like, okay, well, that's a very intentional way of saying, like. Because it's interesting that she said open. Ish.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

That. So maybe a truer identity is that they're ethically non monogamous because. And so they are being honest. They're being upfront.

[Autumn]

Well, I wonder if that fits because that one that you were telling me about being ethically non monogamous was like

[Bluff]

they didn't only play together.

[Autumn]

That person is very honest about being open and dating other people. Yeah, but it wasn't that they were in a relationship.

[Bluff]

Well, right, but already.

[Autumn]

Or a marriage.

[Bluff]

Remembering what I learned, they have, I think a lot of.

[Autumn]

Look at us talking about. We don't know.

[Bluff]

I think a lot of ethically non monogamous people, sometimes you have. I, I think the word might have been a primary.

[Autumn]

Oh, which is like, like this is your partner or your wife.

[Bluff]

Yeah. They would be each other's primary. Well, this phone, a friend sounds like they maybe only play together.

[Autumn]

Yeah, it sounds like they only play together.

[Bluff]

Cool. But. But that's the thing about being ethically non monogamous is it's non traditional monogamy, but with boundaries and being honest.

[Autumn]

My brain is trying to process at the rate of what you. Yes, go ahead.

[Bluff]

So like some ethically non monogamous people, like, it's not like a blanket rules for anyone, but it's about, I think, being upfront and honest and not crossing the boundaries that you agree with your partner, your primary. So anyways, what I will ask the person who wrote this phone, a friend, is to please keep us in the

[Autumn]

loop because also we need a little more detail. So like write us back. We need to understand. Are you looking for a throuple? Are you dating? Are you looking to date a few people at a time? How long are you looking.

[Bluff]

Yeah, with the ones that you meet that you have good chemistry with. Where? Like, how long does it last? Where?

[Autumn]

Yeah, because they said, oh, we've had good experiences. But then what happens? Who determines if you break up with a person? The husband, the wife. Both you guys have to agree that you don't want that person. I have so many questions.

[Bluff]

It's. I'll tell you what the tangled web we weave.

[Autumn]

Well, speaking of, we got another phone friend. I'm going to sum it up because it's like a little.

[Bluff]

Okay.

[Autumn]

Longer. But it sort of falls into the same category. Okay. So basically this person. Okay. Okay. So a girl wrote us she is dating like her boyfriend. They have a. They have a couple that they're friends with. Also the other couple is dating. So nobody's married. So there's this guy girl couple, this guy girl couple. They're friends. They tend to go to the gym and work out together. The girl that wrote us said the other girl compliments her a lot and so at first she didn't think anything of it. Little. But sometimes it almost seems a little flirty. But also she was trying to be nice. So, like, at one point she complimented her back. Like, oh, yeah, you got a nice butt or something like that. When they were all at the gym working out. Then they went to a party together recently, and the girl that wrote us was like, oh, I have to go to the bathroom. It sounds like it was a house party. So she goes to the bathroom, and the other girl says, oh, I'll go with you, and goes up to the bathroom with her.

[Bluff]

As girls always.

[Autumn]

As girls always do.

[Bluff]

Yeah. I always knew this is what was going down when that happened.

[Autumn]

What is going out? The one girl that wrote us goes pee whatever. Goes to sink, washes her hand. The other girl goes, be. Gets up. And then sort of just now they had been drinking, they basically start making out in the bathroom. But she said, kissing, touching hands everywhere. All the things. The girl's doing it to her. She reciprocates back. And then she. Like, after a minute or two, she was like, okay, I think we need to go back to the party. But what she's asking us is, she said, I kind of liked it and I want to explore it. Do I need to tell my boyfriend about it or is it cheating? Yes, it is cheating. Like. Like, let's just. I mean, your boyfriend might be into it, but. Yeah, but if you don't tell him and you're not giving him the chance to decide how he feels about that.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

You're still not being honest and open because he. And you. It sounds like she's got some things she needs to explore and.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

Work through or decide. Like, am I this or am I that? Was it just a drunken, fun night that was like, oh, that was crazy. We did that. Or is she really into being with women, too? Maybe we need to introduce her to the people in Benner.

[Bluff]

Look at us. Couple of matchmakers.

[Autumn]

We're gonna send you some emails, guys. I know we would never.

[Bluff]

I think that what I would say is it is something you need to have a conversation with your boyfriend about. I highly doubt that. Like, yes, it's cheating, but it's not cheating in the same way as if some guy came up and started making out with her and she reciprocated that.

[Autumn]

Why?

[Bluff]

I don't. Well, I guess I don't think her boyfriend will think it's the same.

[Autumn]

Listen, just because a dude gets turned on by it, like, or might get turned on by it, he also might not want to be sharing his girl with somebody else. Girl or guy.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

And if she starts to, to develop

[Bluff]

feeling, like, no, it's something that, like,

[Autumn]

I think that, I mean, if I was with a guy and all of a sudden he comes and tells me, like, babe, I made out with a dude, you still cheated. I'm not gonna take it the same way as, like, oh, you found another woman attractive. I wasn't enough for you. Because I obviously can't be enough for you if a penis is what you're looking for, because I don't have one of those. So, like, if all of a sudden you find that that's what you're attracted to, I'm gonna be hurt in a different way. I'm gonna be sad in a different way.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

But I.

[Bluff]

No, I do agree. I guess it's just, I, I, I, I totally do. I just want to be clear. I do think it's cheating. But I, I imagine her first being, like, in her mind, whoa, what, what, what is happening?

[Autumn]

What was that?

[Bluff]

And sort of like, so I haven't done this in a relationship ever, but I have, like, had people come on to me in that way where I'm, like, sort of going along with it as I'm trying to figure out, is this, am I, Am I enjoying this? Or, like, do I need an exit? But it's like, you don't. You just kind of. I don't know. It's hard for me to imagine she's never experienced something like this.

[Autumn]

You're with Nell.

[Bluff]

I would.

[Autumn]

And, And I. We start making out and we start making out, and my hands are all over your body.

[Bluff]

Huh.

[Autumn]

Is Nell gonna take that as cheat? You cheated on him with me.

[Bluff]

I guess we should ask him. But that, it's so. I can't fathom. Ever.

[Autumn]

Yes.

[Bluff]

Like, and not just you, like, with a female.

[Autumn]

No, but I'm just saying that that's essentially. It's the same thing.

[Bluff]

It's like, I think he would be pissed.

[Autumn]

Yeah, I do, too.

[Bluff]

But I don't think that.

[Autumn]

And especially if you were like, I kind of want to explore this. I liked it.

[Bluff]

I don't know if he would if. Now, let's say, okay, let's say I got back in town, like, like, I'm in LA right now, in Arizona, where we live. And he was like, so I went to that birthday party, having so much fun. There's this girl there. And let's say that the girl's a lesbian, that this makes it make more sense.

[Autumn]

No, the girl's not a lesbian.

[Bluff]

Why not?

[Autumn]

Because that's not what this girl is. If anything, it's bi because she has a boyfriend too.

[Bluff]

That's what I'm saying. So like, like, my point is this other girl has a boyfriend. She has a boyfriend, so.

[Autumn]

Oh, I see.

[Bluff]

So it's not. You know what I mean? It's not like how if a girl was into Nell trying to steal him from me, it's just like a little exploration play thing, which I'm not saying is okay.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

But for the sake of conversation, if I got back and I can't actually know how I would feel just like creating this hypothetical. But if I got back and he was like, anyways, having so much fun, we had some drinks, whatever, but. And there's this girl and her girlfriend there and I really hit it off with Stacy and she was just so fun. But she pulled me aside and she like started kissing me and I kind of liked it. And like we were just kissing. Well, they're just. With some nice hugging and she gave.

[Autumn]

Just, just hands were places.

[Bluff]

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. She definitely should talk. Should talk to her boyfriend about it.

[Autumn]

Also, you got to remember, this isn't the first time she like, she didn't just meet this girl. These are. They're two couples and they're friends. They hang out together all the time. They go and work out at the gym together all the time. So like they already have a. Hey, everybody, lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long, I'm going to be celebrating by playing on finquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Bluff]

Spinquest is a free to play social casino.

[Autumn]

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[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

Listen, the dudes could be totally into it. Both the boyfriends could be like, hot. Do it. Can we watch?

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

I don't know. But her question is, is while she explores it, does she have to tell her boyfriend if she can.

[Bluff]

Here's the thing. I would say if you have interest in continuing to explore, you should definitely have a conversation with your boyfriend. And if someone. It doesn't sound like this is her, but if someone was like, had that. So, okay, I had. Going back 20 years when I had a girlfriend.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

Which. This isn't the same because this girl loves, like. I mean, I loved my girlfriend, but this girl is straight, so I'm not. Or whatever.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

I'm not saying it's exactly the same.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

But while I was in a relationship, I got drunk and the first time, like, sort of kissed, very low level, made out with a guy.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

And it sort of rocked my world.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

And it was. It was. It was actually the first time I kissed todrick.

[Autumn]

Oh, okay.

[Bluff]

And it's when I realized, oh, I really am like, this is. This isn't just like a. Oh, I could be bi if I. You know what I mean? This is like, I actually haven't felt feelings like this before.

[Autumn]

Okay.

[Bluff]

And so I. That. Yes. That. That's cheating. And you have to either. What. How I handled that was. I wasn't in a position to come out, especially to the girl I was dating, so I ended our relationship. But I think. So I think it's either like, you have to stop that relationship or you have to find a way to have that conversation, Especially if that's something you want to continue to explore. Do you think if it was. If that happened and someone was like, I was drunk, that was so stupid, but I actually have no interest in ever doing that again. That she should still talk to her boyfriend about it. This is a qu. Like, even a broader question. Do you think you make a mistake? Let's say you move on. It's in the past. Do you. Is it okay to let it stay in the past?

[Autumn]

I feel like every situation is a little bit different and every couple. Every couple is a little bit different. And it's not a black and white. Even though I know a lot of People probably think it is like, because sometimes, like, do you need to hurt the person to relieve your conscience?

[Bluff]

Right.

[Autumn]

But also you have to keep in mind that they could find out at any given point. Like you might think that they can't or won't, but they could. And so you, if you're not going to say something, you have to be prepared for the fact that now you've lied, trust has been broken and that could ruin the relationship also. But if it was like a one time thing, like oh my God, they were in the bathroom and they were like haha. And they kissed really quick and then it was a nothing and she was like, oh my God. Like no. On one hand, no, I don't think she has telemen. On the other hand, I don't think it would be a big deal if you told them because they'd be like, oh my God, Becky grabbed me and kissed me in the bathroom. Like it was crazy.

[Bluff]

Like that's how I'm feeling about this specific scenario. I'm thinking, talk to your boyfriend about it and.

[Autumn]

But it wasn't just a kiss.

[Bluff]

I know, but it also. It's not like they got naked and scissored or something.

[Autumn]

Like they didn't scissor. But from what.

[Bluff]

It got hot and heavy a little bit.

[Autumn]

Hands were places. Places, not just up.

[Bluff]

Okay.

[Autumn]

From, from the way I'm reading it, it didn't give me graphic, but it was like, it was pretty.

[Bluff]

Yeah, I got pretty intense.

[Autumn]

It led to the. Everything was being touched and she wants to explore it. It's not. Becky grabbed me in the bathroom. Kiss me. Oh my God. That was crazy. Like I can't believe she did that.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

And I'm just telling you because I want you to know what just happened. So this is, it's a. I liked it.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

I need to see if I liked it again.

[Bluff]

I guess how I feel about it is because another thing, another nuance about it is that they're friends. And so you. It's kind of interesting because something that you never expected to happen with someone that you know all of a sudden is happening. And so I, I do think I could see how in the moment it'd be a very confusing thing about like, how do I handle this?

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

I think that the best thing for her to do is to talk to her boyfriend and just be honest. Because honestly, probably the, the worst case scenario is. Or I don't know about worst case scenario, but he'd probably just be like, either. Okay, let's talk about this more. How do you want to explore it? Or, I'm not cool with that. That's not cool. And she could be like, I'm really sorry. Like, I. I want to be with you. Or, you know, whatever.

[Autumn]

I also feel like she probably needs to have a conversation with the girl. I think so, too, maybe first and be like, okay, our.

[Bluff]

What was that?

[Autumn]

What was that? Was that just a quick, fun thing for you? Like, are you looking to explore this more? Does your boyfriend know that you're into girls? Because the guys are friends, too, so maybe you need to have a conversation with the girl first and be like, what was that? Is she even looking to explore it? Or was that just, like, a fun adrenaline rush? Does her boyfriend know? Because there's four people there and, like, both of the guy, like, so is she gonna. If he. If her boyfriend doesn't know, is she gonna tell her boyfriend? Because once you tell your boyfriend, he's for sure gonna go tell his friend, whether he's like, dude, this is hotter. Girls are making out. He's like, bro. So, like, there's mult. There's it.

[Bluff]

Lots of moving pieces here.

[Autumn]

Tangled webs we weave again. Like, I think maybe she's got to talk to the girl, find out what the heck that was. Decide together. Like, are we just exploring this physically? Are you, like, you need to tell your boyfriend, I need to tell mine. Do we want to still stay with our boyfriends, but see if they're okay with us playing with each. I don't know. Yeah, guys, I don't have experience in this area. I don't really. I don't know if I've got great answers for you, but.

[Bluff]

Well, all we'll tell you is make sure you keep your macros balanced. Whatever you do.

[Autumn]

Get your workouts in. Get some steps in. Morning sunlight.

[Bluff]

Is drinking water.

[Autumn]

Hydration. When in doubt, hydrate.

[Bluff]

I think the reason that I have been sort of, like, back and forth on the way I see it, because I just like being a gay guy. You, like, you there. Are you dirty dance with your girlfriends? And, like, there are. I've never been this gay, but there are gays who, like, kiss their girlfriends and stuff like that. And so in my mind, like, I wondered if it was like, that playful thing. And that's when I feel like maybe to some people, that is totally cheating. But also in my mind, it's so not what you get from your part. Not that it should be a secret you keep from your partner, but it doesn't feel like the same.

[Autumn]

Yeah. Level crime. Yes. I Get what you're saying. I just think for all intensive purposes, all four of them are straight and in. And they're both in a monogamous relationship. So to say I want to explore sec feelings with somebody else needs to have that. Needs a. That conversation needs to be had. Because your boyfriend is not thinking that you're exploring sexual feelings with somebody else.

[Bluff]

Totally. I 100.

[Autumn]

Is he allowed to go have sex with a man? Because she might feel some type of way. Not saying that he wants to, but you know what I'm saying? Like, if she flips the scripts and all of a sudden the. The guys were doing it, would you be like, what the fuck?

[Bluff]

It might be a what the f? Situation. Like, how did we get here?

[Autumn]

So I'm just saying, like, if you put the shoe on the other foot or like, oh, you're allowed to say, well, that felt really good, and I want to explore. Well, then is he allowed to go explore with another girl?

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

Because you're still being intimate with somebody else.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

Without that person knowing. And there are things that come with that. There are risks that come with that. You don't know who she's. You don't know if she's only doing that with you. You don't know what kind of conversations her and her boyfriend have had. Like, so.

[Bluff]

Yeah. All right, so that's the advice. First step, talk to the girl, you think?

[Autumn]

I think definitely talk to the girl.

[Bluff]

I agree.

[Autumn]

But then, like, let's say she talks to the girl, and the girl was like, nah, that was just fun. I was around like, yeah, like, that

[Bluff]

was not a big deal.

[Autumn]

Yeah. I'm not looking to explore this. We're cool. But then the girl that wrote us is like, but I really liked it. Well, so now she's got to confront some things with herself and what she wants. I don't know if and when that determines that, when she would have that conversation with her boyfriend. But if she decides that she needs to explore that, then she should have that conversation.

[Bluff]

Yeah. Well, this is what happens when shows like the Hunting Wives go on.

[Autumn]

Oh, my God.

[Bluff]

Okay.

[Autumn]

That was like, what? I started watching that, and all of

[Bluff]

a sudden I was like, wait a minute.

[Autumn]

Huh?

[Bluff]

What are these girls doing?

[Autumn]

I was like, okay.

[Bluff]

Yeah. I think, you know, also, like, someone who sexuality had had to be such an exploration. I think it's just having communication, especially if you're. Especially if you're in a committed relationship with someone, is the most important.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

And it doesn't mean that you're bad. It doesn't mean you don't love the person. It doesn't mean you can't just be satisfied with that person. It means, I think that you're getting to know yourself a little bit more.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

And that's okay. Like, the truth is, I had sexual experiences with females that I didn't hate.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

You know, but that. But I don't. I don't need that to feel satisfied.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

I'm very satisfied without that.

[Autumn]

Yeah, I'm good, actually.

[Bluff]

I'm good. But no more. I'll save it for the other boys. No, now.

[Autumn]

No.

[Bluff]

Ursula. You guys, I. We went. Yes.

[Autumn]

I can't believe you just smelled your hand.

[Bluff]

Okay, well, I know she's still there. I was like. We went to this seafood restaurant, and I got.

[Autumn]

You got pino.

[Bluff]

I had ciopino. I had to. My fingers were all up in this seafood dish, and it was the whole, like, smorgasbord.

[Autumn]

Peeling shrimp, eating clams, breaking out the claw bread dipped in, pulling the meat

[Bluff]

out, running down my arm.

[Autumn]

He was. He was elbow.

[Bluff]

It didn't matter how many times I washed my hands, took a shower. I could like my fingers. I said. I told Autumn, it smells like I fisted Ursula and it won't go away. The sea witch.

[Autumn]

He's like, yeah, I think it's better.

[Bluff]

But I never rubbed lemon on.

[Autumn]

That was the problem. Well, our server. We haven't had the best servers the last two days. They've been a little mia, you know, not everybody's like.

[Bluff]

Exactly. Not everyone carries such pride in their work as a server as we did.

[Autumn]

Oh, I wonder. I feel like women. Girls in general tend to. I could be totally wrong, by the way. Tend to want to explore that side more than guys would like. If a guy's straight. A guy's straight, he's not looking to go. Typically have exploration with another man.

[Bluff]

I wonder if that is. Or also because of society.

[Autumn]

They just don't report it as much. Girls in college like, oh, I tried in college. I was curious in college.

[Bluff]

Well, what's interesting. My understanding is which. And I think this is like a general understanding. Like in male prisons, yes, there's a lot of sex that happens, but it's about dominance and emasculating and stuff like that. And in. But in female prisons, a lot of women who on the outside are totally live life as a heterosexual woman, get. Find relationships and companionship, and it does become intimate. And it's not so it. So it's just interesting. I wonder, I. What if there's deep research about that because it's something that I feel like

[Autumn]

it's stuff like that that makes people kind of like we were talking about in our other podcast where it's like, yeah, I'm straight. I don't. I didn't wake up and go, what am I gonna choose today? Do I. Do I want man or woman? Like, I'm like, I'm attracted to men. But then when you talk about stuff like that, right. Like prison, like the. A guy on the outside, straight. But things happen in prison. Same thing with women. I think that's why some. Maybe that's why sometimes people are like, oh, well, you're making a choice to live that way. Which is still, I feel like, probably inaccurate. I don't know. Because I'm not gay, so I don't have those feelings. But just like, I don't make the choice. I don't think you make the choice. Yeah, I think maybe in certain circumstances, I do know in certain circumstances, like, I do know of somebody who had been sexually assaulted. She was sexually assaulted by her dad for years. And she had relationships with men. She had been married to a man, and after she got divorced from a man, she ended up in a relationship with a woman and has been in relationships only with women since. I. That's a. That's an interesting one where it's like, I think the. The trust of a man isn't there. Maybe she trusts a female more. I could be wrong. Maybe she's just been by her whole life but didn't know it. I don't know.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

So there have been situations like, where.

[Bluff]

Well, I definitely like the thing that I. The hill. Is that the saying that I'll die on this hill or mountain or whatever, like stand for? I don't feel the need to say that. I do believe that people are born with like. Like, I. I think no matter what my. It's the nature versus nurture. No. Like, no matter what happened to me, I still would preference. Yes, you're still gay, but I don't think that it's morally wrong to be anything. As long as you're not. You're not committing acts of violence and manipulation in sexual ways and stuff with the people. So if someone. If something. Happy birthday, America. It's time to celebrate and play your favorite Las Vegas casino games by American owned spinquest.com. what's better than fireworks and American Pie? Hitting a blackjack in the palm of your hand and you won't lose your fingers. Over a thousand games including slots and

[Autumn]

live dealers and 30 coin packs.

[Bluff]

Hex are on sale for 10 spinquest.com buy American players. For American players, Spin Quest is a free to play social casino.

[Autumn]

Boyd. Where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Best thing that's ever happened to you financially.

[Bluff]

Go easy.

[Autumn]

Sold my car on Carvana.

[Bluff]

Amazing offer, really.

[Autumn]

I hit 200 on the scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check?

[Bluff]

No. How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once.

[Autumn]

Okay. That's fair.

[Bluff]

It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly.

[Autumn]

Inexplicably good offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Bluff]

Happen to someone in their life regardless of what it is. And that helped steer them towards a certain way. I also don't think that's wrong. It's about where you're. I know you are. But I'm saying, like, people. People who fight, like, that's a choice. They're saying that because they think you're making the wrong choice.

[Autumn]

You're making the wrong choice.

[Bluff]

And that's like, you know what? Even if it is a. I don't believe it's a choice. But I do think that there are people who maybe like, I think sexuality is a spectrum. I don't think that you are either gay, straight, or bi. I think that people live within the spectrum and can see different, like, people as. Like, that they're attracted to them or not.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

And so some. And we have titles for those people. But I. When I think of it as that, I'm like, okay, so some people might really, like I've said before, there are guys who've experimented with guys and are ashamed to talk about it because men don't get the same. A lot.

[Autumn]

They don't get the same path that women do.

[Bluff]

Exactly. But that doesn't mean that they're gay. And they might realize, you know, I tried that I, you know, had gay friends. I love. Maybe they love what people perceive as gay things. Like they love musicals and. Exactly. But they realize it's just. That's actually not for them.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

But they were out of. They were able to experiment because they are at the place with their desires where there's just not a possibility.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

There's some people who are all the way on that side or all the way on the other.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

So I don't know. I don't know.

[Autumn]

I don't know. But. Interesting phone friends this week.

[Bluff]

Very.

[Autumn]

I'm like, okay, thank you, guys. Thank you.

[Bluff]

I wish she could have been more helpful.

[Autumn]

I don't know. I mean, I hope we were helpful here sometimes.

[Bluff]

Here's what I. I think the biggest thing is, if you are in a. If you actually want a partner, because everyone like, wants a partner because it's cute. But if you actually want a partner and you have one, then. And part of that is really being able to be vulnerable with that person. And so having that conversation about, like, you know what? I kind of. This happened and I'm into it, or even if nothing happened, happened, but someone's like, I kind of feel like I'm into women, you know, or whatever. Like I, like I said before, I think I follow. I follow someone who came out as bisexual and it was really important to her, but she's. They're not open and she's married to a man. But for the sake of her identity and just honoring that, that is some part of her. Exactly. And that's okay too.

[Autumn]

Right?

[Bluff]

But being open and honest with your partner about it is a really beautiful thing.

[Autumn]

And you should be able to be like, if you're in a real partnership, then you should be able to have those conversations. You should be able to love each other through it. You know, like, that's real love. That's real acceptance. That's real unconditional love of like, being able to be like. And that doesn't always mean that you'll end up together, but like, like, if you love the person as much as you say you are, that you would be as hurt and devastated, then you should be able to hold space for, like, I want you to be your most happy.

[Bluff]

Right. The reason people can't is, I think, like, because of insecurity, I think ego and insecurities.

[Autumn]

Like, what does that mean about me not being good enough or whatever, you know? God, we could go down like a whole rabbit hole of like societal norms. And like, we kind of talked about it a little bit where it's like, you know, you can have so many friends and you're allowed to love them all. You can have so many kids and you're allowed to love them all. You can be a serial dater where you're like, I've been in a, oh, two year relationship and then that one ends and then five year relationship and like, there's no judgment. Like, they're, oh, yeah, like they're a serial dater. But like, nobody gets mad at you. But like, yeah, if you get married, you are not expected to be attracted to anybody else. Love any. Fall in love with anybody else. It's like we sort of expect part of the human condition to shut off.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

Instead of me. I'm not. Again, I'm not saying, like, everybody go have open relationships or anything. No. I'm just saying, like, instead of getting your feelings hurt and things like that, or like, if you're not meeting a need or there's not something you're absolutely into and you're pro. Like, you. There's. There's a lot of. I'll just turn this part of me off to make that person happen, and then I'll just turn this part of me off. And then before you know it, people are in unhappy relationships because they've had to box themselves in instead of being able to be really open with their partner.

[Bluff]

Well, I, you know, grew up in a. The culture, I guess, in my family of like. Like, if a man, like, for example, if I don't have. This isn't a real case, but, for example, like, if my dad would. Would turn and look at a woman, my mom would be like, are you looking at her? You know what I mean?

[Autumn]

Right, right, right. Yeah.

[Bluff]

And it's just interesting. And the truth is, like, I don't. I don't feel that kind of jealousy. If Nell and I were walking and there was, like, this really hot guy that walked by, I wouldn't. I don't think I would feel like, this response if Nell, like, turned and looked at him.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

Because that's a hot guy. And we have. We actually have a gay couple who lives here who's. Who are. Is friends of ours. And they're good. They're great. And. But we went to dinner with them and they were, like, talking about how they like to talk to each other about guys they think are hot. And I thought that was really cool.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

Because the other option is to think it, pretend you didn't see it, pretend you didn't think it, and don't talk about it because you're afraid of hurting your partner's feelings. And I understand. Like, I do. I think it's really healthy to try not to do things or say things that will hurt your partner's feelings. Of course. But it also, you're not a bad person for noticing when someone that is attractive. That's why people can have their Hollywood crush.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

Because it's so far removed that it's, like, funny to talk about. But if you're like, you know, and this gorgeous guy comes in or whatever,

[Autumn]

if you're like, oh, my God, did you See our neighbor that just moved in. Then it's like, wait a minute, because that's next door right now. I don't have to worry when you go to work. I think, too, it depends. A lot of times, if there's been an infidelity in the relationship, then the person's gonna have a lot harder time because they probably feel insecure.

[Bluff]

Absolutely.

[Autumn]

Whereas if it's a really healthy relationship, then it's probably much easier to be like, yeah, babe, that person was hot. Oh, my God. Did you see that guy? Like, right. Yeah.

[Bluff]

Nell and I, one time when we were at my hometown, we, like, met some of my friends at this gay bar, and. And one of my friends wanted to go outside and have a smoke. Nell was inside. Whatever. I walked outside. So we were talking. And then when we went back in, Nel was surrounded by these guys talking to all of them. And you know how Nell. He doesn't have. There's. He doesn't know a stranger.

[Autumn]

No.

[Bluff]

That's something I love about him. And Nell was like, these guys are talking to your man. I was like, girl. And she was like, like, you are. Oh, you guys aren't open, are you? And I was like, no, we're not open. But also, they're not doing anything.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

And also, I don't care.

[Autumn]

Good luck trying to keep Nell from talking to people.

[Bluff]

Exactly. And I don't care even if those guys are over there flirting with him. This is. If, you know, if I'm honest, if a guy kind of respectfully, like, but low key is hitting on my boyfriend,

[Autumn]

you're like, that's mine.

[Bluff]

I kind of like it because I'm like, I know he's hot. That's why that. That's why I got him.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

You know what I mean? I mean, that's not the only reason, but because I. Because I feel so secure.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

And I know that Nell loves me, and I just think that there's no reason for me to be like, were those guys talking to you?

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

You know?

[Autumn]

Yeah, I get it.

[Bluff]

But there was another time when. When Nell and I, we'd probably been dating for, like, six or seven months, and we were at a bar here.

[Autumn]

I feel like I'm slouching.

[Bluff]

And there was this guy because the microphone is throwing off. You have no idea.

[Autumn]

I was like, like, why is it at my nose sliding down?

[Bluff]

But this guy was talking to Nell, and I didn't. I didn't really know that they were having. It was kind of getting, like, not a good conversation. And I was Like, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. And Nell walked away. And the guy looked at me. He was like, can I kiss you? And I was like, what?

[Autumn]

Oh, my God.

[Bluff]

I was like, no, no. And he was like, come on. I was like, absolutely not. This is weird. You're my. You were just talking to my boyfriend. And so I think that, like, it is important to know that you're. You have boundaries with your partner.

[Autumn]

Yeah.

[Bluff]

And if you're. Or if you're someone who, like, there could be a couple. We could be a couple. That it's okay if you, you know, kiss a guy at a bar. But we aren't.

[Autumn]

Right.

[Bluff]

It's not that. That would be a terrible thing if someone had those boundaries. I just think the. The important thing is having your boundaries and having that laid out with your partner.

[Autumn]

Yeah. Knowing what is and is not acceptable. Like, it's. It's nobody's business to be in anybody else's relationship.

[Bluff]

Right.

[Autumn]

Like, you do you. If you guys said. If you were like, oh, yeah, Nell doesn't care if I kiss people, I'd be like.

[Bluff]

And disrespectful as to wait till he walks away to ask that question. You know what I mean? Like, you're just causing problems.

[Autumn]

You're just.

[Bluff]

Ye of here.

[Autumn]

But don't let me be around.

[Bluff]

I know, right?

[Autumn]

I'll let somebody know.

[Bluff]

Let them. That's why I just love having you around.

[Autumn]

Donald's like, I don't have to do any of the work.

[Bluff]

Exactly. Having you need. You guys. You need to autumn in your life. Because she's like, is it a bulldog? Like you will Bloodhound. I don't know.

[Autumn]

Bulldog May. Yeah. Depend. Like, I'll.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

I'll get in there real quick.

[Bluff]

You'll let people.

[Autumn]

And I'll let people know. Don't. With my friends. Right around and find out.

[Bluff]

Around and find out. I love it.

[Autumn]

Scooby Doo. Remember the cartoon Scooby Doo?

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

And then you remember all of a sudden his. I think it was his uncle that came around. It was Scrappy Doo.

[Bluff]

I don't remember Scrappy.

[Autumn]

Scrappy was like this little. Little dog.

[Bluff]

Oh.

[Autumn]

And he was just. That he was scrappy. I'm like, that's you, Scrappy. Do Scrappy Tinkerbell or Scrappy Doo. I don't know which one, but feisty.

[Bluff]

Anybody's guess. Yeah.

[Autumn]

Prance around in my little outfit. But I'll also let you know.

[Bluff]

You sure will. Guys. The way she was honking her hornet, this guy in Santa Monica today.

[Autumn]

Wait. Because he wouldn't drive his car.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

You're gonna cause an accident.

[Bluff]

Yes.

[Autumn]

Like literally go.

[Bluff]

I know, I love it.

[Autumn]

But a lot of people get out the way.

[Bluff]

No, we're all here to move and you're not moving. So.

[Autumn]

No, it was literally like I felt like the person was going slow in person, it on purpose. I was like, what are we doing? Yeah, the petals on the right.

[Bluff]

Press it, use it.

[Autumn]

Flintstones could go faster right now.

[Bluff]

See what I'm saying?

[Autumn]

Until I'm not. I was like, what are we doing? At a certain point, like, I was waiting and waiting and the person was like, I know. And then finally I was like, you gotta go.

[Bluff]

And it's so annoying.

[Autumn]

Dom gets so mad at me if I beep at people.

[Bluff]

Really?

[Autumn]

I don't. It's not like I beep at people all the time, but I am a very defensive driver. Like, meaning I'm aware of everything. Like, I'm anal and people in LA are not great drivers. Like, I can't tell you how many times somebody will come drifting into the lane. Or like you were talking about that one. Like the exit to my house. Like, if you're on the right that the person. Because they're. It's a double turn lane. This. This person inevitably always tries to come over.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

And Dom's always like, mom, you don't have to honk. And I'm like, yes, I do. They're about to hit us, Dominic. And like, you better know when to use your horn. That's why it's there.

[Bluff]

Yeah, but.

[Autumn]

Yeah, sometimes you let them know.

[Bluff]

See, I'm passive aggressive. I let them crash into me and. Well, you came into my lane. No, I'm kidding.

[Autumn]

I'm.

[Bluff]

I use my horn too. And sometimes when Nell's driving, I'm like, honk the horn. He's like, babe, why? I'm like, because. Because that's not how you drive. Exactly. You can't let them just keep going around like that.

[Autumn]

Yeah, you gotta make somebody wake up. Up.

[Bluff]

Yeah.

[Autumn]

Because maybe they don't hit us, but they could hit somebody else.

[Bluff]

Exactly.

[Autumn]

So let me just give you a little friendly reminder.

[Bluff]

So all that's to say, I appreciate your feisty side. Thank you. You'll keep these hoes in check.

[Autumn]

That's right.

[Bluff]

Anyway.

[Autumn]

Anyway. Okay, well, thank you.

[Bluff]

Just for the record, we don't have. I just. I don't know what kind of. What kind. I don't know. What vibe are we exactly. Definitely non judgmental. I love it. And I want that first Phone a friend.

[Autumn]

I really do need more information.

[Bluff]

Give us some more deets. Yeah, but thank you. We love getting the phone of friends and they don't have to be about relationships or anal sex or anal or any of those things or they can literally be by anything. So just hit us up whatever you need advice. Our email is everything everythingsperfectpodcast gmail.com. do me a favor and if you're sending us a phone a friend, put phone a friend in the subject line there.

[Autumn]

Yes. So we can find it easily. And then you can always find us on social. We are Everything's perfect official on Instagram. One of these days we'll be able to say it without roll off the top. Everything's perfect official on the gram.

[Bluff]

That's right.

[Autumn]

We'll see you guys next week.

[Bluff]

Bye bye.

[Autumn]

Hey everybody. Lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on finquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Bluff]

Spinquest is a free to play social

[Autumn]

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