Everything’s Perfect…Except I’m Just Being Honest

Summary

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Everything's Perfect – Episode Summary

Podcast: Everything’s Perfect
Hosts: Autumn Calabrese & Donald Stamper
Episode: Everything’s Perfect…Except I’m Just Being Honest
Date: February 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid and laughter-filled episode, Autumn and Donald dig into the tricky territory of honesty versus rudeness. They swap stories about times they were “just being honest,” wrestle with the boundaries between necessary truth-telling and accidental meanness, and get real about how their communication styles have evolved in friendships, at work, and even in breakups. Expect stories about ripped jeans, bad program names, memorable fashion fails, and the balancing act of honoring feelings while speaking with integrity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Stories: Fashion Fails and Childhood Trauma

• [00:00–03:18] The episode opens with hilarious stories of wardrobe mishaps. Donald recounts a childhood memory of having his jeans ripped up to the waistband during youth group, leading both hosts to reflect on the embarrassment and insecurity caused by clothing and style.
• Quote:
  • Donald: “I'm a modest person. When I tell you they were ripped to the waistband on both sides, I was like, I'm exposed—in church now.” (02:03)

2. Navigating Life Changes & Friendship Dynamics

• [03:48–06:06] Donald shares he’s preparing for a move, feeling in “a weird headspace” as friends subtly pull away. The hosts acknowledge the natural discomfort and complex emotions of change and uprooting.
• Insight:
  • “You are moving away and so it’s gonna feel uncomfortable, especially while you’re in the waiting-to-go period.” (Autumn, 05:00)

3. Main Theme: Honesty vs. Rudeness

• [06:07–07:50] The conversation shifts to the main topic: where to draw the line between honest feedback and being rude.
• Quote:
  • Autumn: “I’m not a sugar coater. That probably comes off harsh sometimes, even when I don’t mean it to be. I’m also a get shit done kind of person… If I don’t like your idea and I voice it… now you’ve irritated me because now I have to tiptoe and backtrack about your feelings.” (06:43/07:52)

4. Learning to Give (and Receive) Feedback at Work

• [08:01–12:29] Both hosts discuss how they navigated early-career situations where they felt compelled to stay quiet, and how they have each become more comfortable giving direct but constructive feedback as their confidence has grown.
• Autumn shares a memorable example involving a proposed name for a country-style workout program:
  • “He wants to call it Giddy Up… And I just looked across the table and I was like, the name is terrible. I’m not going to be the face of a program called Giddy Up.” (Host 1, 17:12)
• Donald suggests ways to frame tough feedback with gentle honesty:
  • “If I have criticism to give, I start with something I really like about what they did…” (Donald, 10:07)

5. When Bald Honesty is Necessary (Or Not)

• [17:24–21:24] They debate moments when it’s appropriate to be blunt (especially in high-pressure or creative projects), versus when a softer touch is warranted. Stories include the struggle to communicate honestly about bad project names, and how group dynamics encourage “bottling things up” until they burst out.
• Quote:
  • Autumn: “I could have just taken a beat—and I’VE gotten better at it… I work really hard to not get emotionally panicked, because it can come off rude or disrespectful.” (18:52)

6. Truth-Telling in Personal Relationships

• [23:24–31:04] Donald asks Autumn about her experience telling her then-husband she wanted a divorce, and how she approached it in writing rather than in person to ensure she could express herself fully and directly without emotional escalation. They discuss the benefits of honest, non-confrontational communication and the success of their post-divorce friendship.
• Quote:
  • Autumn: “We have been so successful because we're still family. …That to me is way more successful than staying in a marriage that is not the best.” (29:28)

7. When 'Honesty' Becomes Hurtful

• [31:15–35:02] The hosts reflect on times honesty crosses into meanness, especially when taking digs at people you know well.
• Donald admits a past mistake:
  • “I said to my friend: ‘You like your life being miserable because then you get to be the victim.’” (32:23)
• Autumn muses on the importance of self-growth:
  • “At a certain point, you’re no longer the victim… I have to grow up, process, and go, okay, but I know that’s not me.” (33:43)

8. Choosing Your Words: Everyday Interactions

• [36:34–41:02] They talk through (sometimes tongue-in-cheek) social scenarios such as being asked for fashion opinions or whether someone “looks fat.” The hosts agree that some questions inherently set people up for dishonest or awkward answers.
• Quote:
  • Donald: “Don’t back my ass into a corner… That's a bullshit question.” (39:15)
  • Autumn: “You can't back somebody in a corner because then it's going to come off rude, but really you set them up for failure.” (39:18)

9. Being Honest Without Being Hurtful: Growth and Practice

• [41:51–56:32] Both reflect on personal progress made in delivering their opinions with tact, the need to “soften the edges,” and the value of thinking before speaking—especially in tense moments.
• Autumn: “If I’m going into a contentious situation, I have a little convo in my head: you are going to breathe, you are going to think before you speak, we're gonna let people finish their sentences, we're going to hear them out…” (55:37)
• Donald: “If you're nervous about saying something, just think of the nicest way to say it—still saying what you want to say. And go do that.” (55:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On blunt honesty at work:

  • Autumn: “If I don’t like your idea and I voice it...now you’ve irritated me because now I have to tiptoe and backtrack about your feelings.” (07:52)

• On naming disasters:

  • Autumn: "The name is terrible. I’m not going to be the face of a program called Giddy Up." (17:12)

• On breakups and healing:

  • Autumn: “We have been so successful because we're still family. ...That to me is way more successful than staying in a marriage that is not the best.” (29:28)

• On hurtful ‘truths’:

  • Donald: “You like your life being miserable because then you get to be the victim.” (32:23)
  • Autumn: “Sometimes you gotta hit ‘em between the eyes with the hard truth… but you have to know the personality—if they’ll respond to that or if they’ll spiral deeper.” (34:08)

• On honesty in friendship:

  • Autumn: “You’re not a real friend if you let me walk out of the house looking stupid.” (38:02)

• On asking for what you need kindly:

  • Donald (jokingly): “Can you just be quiet? But that’s not the nice way...” (54:29)
  • Autumn: “Think about how you would want to receive the message that you’re about to give.” (55:37)

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Segment Timestamps

• Wardrobe Mishaps & Childhood Storytelling – 00:00–03:18
• Navigating a Major Move & Friendship Change – 03:48–06:06
• Theme Introduction: Honesty vs. Rudeness – 06:07–07:50
• Honest Feedback at Work – 08:01–12:29
• Case Study: The "Giddy Up" Program Name – 13:49–21:28
• Honesty in Relationships & Divorce Story – 23:24–31:04
• When Honesty Crosses the Line (“Victim” Accusations) – 31:15–35:02
• Everyday Honesty: Fashion, Body Image, Social Interactions – 36:34–41:02
• Growth, Self-Control, and Polite Honesty – 41:51–56:32
• Wrap-up and Takeaways – 56:33–End

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Episode Takeaways

• The line between honest and rude is often determined by intention, delivery, and context.
• “Softening the edges” of honesty is a valuable skill—think about how you’d want tough feedback delivered to you.
• Sometimes, directness is needed (especially at work), but choosing your words and timing can make a crucial difference.
• In friendships and relationships, being honest can be an act of care—if it’s done with empathy and respect.
• “Everything’s perfect...kind of”—embracing imperfection includes learning how to communicate real feelings, sometimes awkwardly but always authentically.

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To participate:
The hosts encourage listeners to write in for “Phone a Friend” advice segments at [e-mail] or connect on Instagram @everythingsperfectofficial.

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Transcript

[Host 1]

We're doing this country quote unquote, line dancing program. And we always had nicknames, like sort of secret nicknames for workout programs so that like actual names didn't get leaked out there to the public. We're back and forth on names, back and forth on names, and our CEO finally settles on a name. And so he email blasts up what he wants the name of the program to be. He wants to call it Giddy Up. And we're like, oh my God, this name is not good. And I'm like, who's going to tell him? And they're all like, you have to tell them. And so finally we were in a meeting one day and I just looked across the table and I was like, the name is terrible. It was funny cuz he was like, I've been waiting for somebody to challenge the name. And I was like, well, nobody likes it.

[Host 2]

How you doing?

[Host 1]

Great.

[Host 2]

You look good.

[Guest or Sponsor Voice]

Thanks.

[Host 1]

I'm caught.

[Host 2]

Oh, no. That is interesting. I bet I would. Okay. I would be putting my.

[Host 1]

Oh, I do it every time. My foot through the hole.

[Host 2]

Yeah, every single time. It'd be impossible for me to get dressed in that.

[Host 1]

I've almost fallen so many times putting these jeans on because it's multiple holes.

[Host 2]

And they're big and they probably get bigger every time you rip your foot through them.

[Host 1]

Sure do.

[Host 2]

Oh my God.

[Host 1]

I got a lot of wears left and I paid for them this way.

[Host 2]

I was at youth group one time and this kid thought it'd be funny. And when I was little, I had this thing about my jeans because I was insecure about being short. And also I. I didn't. I don't know why I was obsessed with this, but I didn't like my jeans to bunch up at my shoes, so I cut the sides and that was kind of a style for a while. But all my jeans, I did that so they would like then lay over my shoes. Whatever. Well, this. In youth group, I actually.

[Host 1]

You're. Yeah, your youth group. All the very traumatizing them all the.

[Host 2]

Way, like, might as well rip them off my body. And I'm a modest person. And when I tell you they were ripped like to the waistband on both sides, I was like, I'm exposed in church now. He was like, but wait, did he.

[Host 1]

Just get down there and grab it and pull? Like, how did he rip?

[Host 2]

Was. He was like, oh, Donald, he might have. He might have stepped on it and it tore. And then he was like, oh, it's already so easy. And then he just thought it'd be Funny.

[Sponsor Voice]

And I don't.

[Host 2]

I can't explain why people do the dumb. They do, but it has sword. And I remember being like, what is this? He's gonna rip these pants off. Oh, my God. I was traumatized. This is why I was afraid to go to school, because I thought it's this chaos all the time. He's.

[Host 1]

I'm dead.

[Host 2]

So anyway, be careful with those.

[Host 1]

Was it just one pant leg that was ripped all the way up?

[Host 2]

Yeah, he only did one, but because there was no stopping him, like, he's sorry. And I'm trying to. I'm trying to stop him, and it's, like, impossible. And so I try to grab the pants, but then he just. At some point, he can just, like, pull away from me, and they're just like a zipper. I was like, oh, my God. Easy access with me with my leg insecurity. Now it's out looking like Jessica Rabbit or something. Like in church. My whole leg's just out.

[Host 1]

You just cross it like a high split gown.

[Guest or Sponsor Voice]

Awful.

[Host 1]

Oh, this is fantastic. I did not expect to open this way, but I am here for it. Well, anyway, that'll lead us to fashion. One of these days, we're gonna have to talk about 2026 spring fashion. I don't know what it is.

[Host 2]

Like, I'm gonna have to learn.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I have to do some research on board. Oh. So other than that, how are you now that I have tears rolling down my face?

[Host 2]

I'm good.

[Host 1]

From your skirt?

[Host 2]

I'm in a. So the thing is, you guys, for the listener, we record both, like, thinking about when it's gonna come out, and also we talk about our lives in real time. So today, when we're recording is actually one week from when I'll be leaving. And I'm in kind of a weird headspace from it.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

But I think it's to be expected. It's like some friends I feel have kind of pulled away, and that's sort of like. Like, the first feeling about that is sadness. And I think maybe some of those people are like, you know, people all handle different things differently, and maybe that's them protecting themselves from being sad or just, like, accepting the new normal that I'm not going to be here. But it makes me feel like I thought it would be not an ending that would, like, fizzle out and.

[Guest or Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You're like, we're still friends.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I expect to still see you and talk to you.

[Host 2]

Exactly. So it's just. It's just so that's kind of weird. But also it's like, maybe that's the natural, like, how things are supposed to be because a little bit of an uprooting and that is uncomfortable.

[Host 1]

But yeah, I mean, you know, you are moving away and so it's gonna feel uncomfortable, especially while you're in the, like, waiting to go period.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, I mean, I've moved so many times that anytime that part is like.

[Host 2]

Because everything's. You don't know what it's going to be. You're just anticipating.

[Host 1]

Yeah. It's a lot of. What is it gonna be? You could either think the best or you could think the worst, but it's that, like, unknown. It's kind of exciting, kind of scary. And also you're kind of here, like, I need to pack, but it's a little too early to pack because I can't be without the things. So there's like the anticipation of, like, getting ready to go but can't quite do the work yet.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I hate that part. Yeah, I hate packing.

[Host 1]

No, thank you.

[Host 2]

And this is the first. This is the first time where it's like, I really need to pack. A lot of other times I did, but I could have just for about the same cost of moving, just. And bought new stuff.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, because it wasn't very expensive things. But especially since we're moving to a bigger place, we gotta have some stuff to put in it.

[Host 1]

Yeah. You don't want to have to, like, start all over.

[Host 2]

Exactly. Lord. But other than that, everything's good.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

I was thinking about an interesting topic for us today to talk about. Okay. I was thinking about, like, a conversation around, like, you know when someone's like, you're being mean and they're like, no, I'm just being honest. Talking about that line, like, telling the truth versus being rude and all that that encompasses. And I feel like it would be fun to have a conversation with you because I was giving you shit about not being nice. My mom is always your number one defender. She's like, she is so nice and sweet and generous. I'm like, I know. I love your mom.

[Host 1]

Thanks, Mom. I have multiple personalities and you will get it depending on how you treat me. So fair. So be a dick around and find out. But if you're nice, I'm the sweetest ever. But I. Here's what I will say. I am not a sugar coater. And that probably comes off harsh sometimes, even when I don't mean it to be. I am also a get done kind of person. So, like, I don't have time for, like, there's nothing that irritates me more, especially around work stuff, like, in general, doesn't matter, like, what I'm working on, but, like, I'm not here to protect your feelings. Like, we got to get stuff done. If we don't agree on something, let's just talk through it and get through it. Don't take it personally. If I don't like your idea. I'm not usually rude. If I say, like, oh, I don't like that. Like, no, I would say I'm not rude. Like, I don't even want to act like, I like. But if I don't like an idea and I voice it and say, like, well, I don't know if I agree about that or it's not this, it's this. And somebody else gets their feelings hurt. Now you've irritated.

[Host 2]

Excuse me.

[Host 1]

He's like, but no, now you've irritated me because now I have to tiptoe and backtrack about your feelings. And you're distracting from the work. So anyways, can you think of a.

[Host 2]

Time on any project that you've done, you don't have to name the specific project, but where there was something that you wanted to change about it or that you didn't like or that whatever in the production phase of it that or the creation phase of it that you didn't know how to say? Because, like, have you ever. Can you think of a time that that's happened?

[Host 1]

Maybe at the very beginning, like, there was probably things that I wasn't 100% sure. Like. Like, maybe on my first program ever, because obviously I was brand new. And so, like, you' so thankful to be there and so thankful for the opportunity, and you do not want to piss anybody off ever. So there was probably times in that process a lot where I was like, oh, I don't know if I like da, da, da. But, like, I can't say anything, but I got very comfortable. But after the first one, like, no, I was given the opportunity to be allowed to voice my opinions. Like, I will say that I was definitely given the opportunity. Now, again, sometimes I'm pretty blunt about it. Like, I don't sugarcoat it. I. So sometimes it could be taken the wrong way. So maybe as years went on and also when I'm under a lot of stress, I could snap a little bit quicker.

[Host 2]

Same.

[Host 1]

So, yeah, there's definitely been times where I know I've snapped, but it's like, I'm exhausted. I'm the one in front of the camera. It's my name on the project. Like, and somebody doesn't. Or, or if somebody's not carrying their workload and I'm like, bitch, well, I've got 9 million things to do. I don't need to pick up your sl. Yeah, I might say. Anyways, am I even on the topic?

[Host 2]

Yeah, I think so. Okay, totally. That's why I wondered like, if there was. If there's something that you would have wanted to. Because you can go so many different ways with this. I was thinking about it. I am a gentle truth teller and sometimes I just lie. So like, not in professionals. I do.

[Host 1]

Wait a minute.

[Host 2]

Because I was thinking, okay, so.

[Host 1]

So we have to have an off camera conversation.

[Host 2]

So one thing is when, when you. I know. And as I've gotten older, and I think that's true for most people, you just become. You do learn things. It's all at different paces for different people. I'm not saying that someone's age means that they are more or less evolved or mature than someone much younger or older than them. So. But I do think, like, everyone is constantly growing, hopefully if you're alive. And so for me, I am a lot better at speaking gently. And like, if I have criticism to give someone who I'm working with, I start with something that I really like about what they did and that kind of stuff. So I'm pretty good there. I. It is difficult. If someone's rude to me, then I want to be rude back. But where I lie is if someone asks me, okay, if I go see a performance and someone's like, what did you think? It doesn't matter what I thought. My words are going to be like, you did amazing. So you think it's okay to lie.

[Host 1]

In those moments, in those mo. Well, I guess it depends on who you're seeing, right? Like, and if you have the relationship, like, where you've given feedback leading up to, right. Because like, I try to think about it. Like, I guess, like, let me put myself in a position. Like, if I was going to see Dom play music and it was his first time ever, and let's say he did a good job, but he didn't do a great job. Am I going to tell him that? Of course not. I'm going to tell him he did amazing because it takes a lot to get up there and do it and try it. And I wouldn't want to crush his confidence. Right? But. But if in the days to come, if he was like, oh, I'm practicing or, oh, mom, will you listen to Me play this, Then I might give gentle feedback of like, hey, buddy, that's really good. What if you did da da da, or, oh, is that the same, I don't know, chord progression you were working on? Like, that sounds even better than the last time I heard it.

[Host 2]

Like, good job saying chord progression.

[Host 1]

Listen, I did study music. I played violin for years. But so, again, it depends. If I'm watching a friend in a dance performance and it's like a one time, I'm not going to be like, you sucked. Like, that's terrible.

[Host 2]

I know.

[Host 1]

It's not. That's not where I'm blunt.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like I said, it's more when it's like, there's not time to. To mess around. We got to get something done, and we got to get it over a finish line and we got. Or if somebody's, like, repeating a pattern over and over again, eventually I'm gonna be like, yo, this has gotta stop. I mean, a lot of times I have to have that conversation with myself these days.

[Host 2]

Well, don't we all?

[Host 1]

But yeah, you know, like, if a friend keeps, like, doing something or going back to a situation, you know, you try to be supportive at first, and eventually you're like, hey, stupid.

[Host 2]

Yeah, snap out of it.

[Host 1]

I don't know what the fuck you think you're like. What are you expecting to be, you know, like, I might be the tough love friend sometimes like that.

[Host 2]

Mm, yeah, I'm thinking about that as your friend. I don't know if I've ever, like, received very tough love from you, though.

[Host 1]

It depends on the person, really. Like, yeah, you don't really require tough love.

[Host 2]

Some of these. Some of these people.

[Host 1]

Some people tough. What is our topic again? Tough.

[Host 2]

Like a rude versus. Well, I said it's, you know, talking about being rude versus honest, because some people, like, sometimes you'll just have interactions with people. And as I was saying, thinking about this on the way here, I was like, there's so many different ways that this plays out.

[Host 1]

I'm gonna give an example, and I'll actually talk about it because I think it's okay to, like. It's so far past now that I think it's totally okay. So the workout program that I did, Country Heat, which is like country quasi line dancing. Not really line dancing, but really designed to make it super fun, move your body kind of thing. Like, for. I don't want to say beginners, because, like, you know, we would get intensity up in the dance. But anyways, okay, we're doing this country quote Unquote line dancing program. And we always had nicknames, like sort of secret nicknames for workout programs so that like, actual names didn't get leaked out there to the public before we had secured the name and things like that. So like, we would call it like, the project was named Dirt Country. He like, so it was just named Dirt while we were working on it. Okay, cute. And then we're. We get into name discussion. And I am a lover of country music. Like, love country music, and I respect it very much in all its different ways that it's played and things like that. So we're back and forth on names, back and forth on names, and our CEO finally settles on a name and he. He email blasts it to the group. And he and I have been known to butt heads and. But like, creatively in the best of ways. Like, challenge each other. Yeah, Push back, push back, talk through, work through. Get to the best thing. Okay. So we had just butted heads a few days earlier about something, and I was really. I don't remember what it was, but I was really annoyed. So I really was like, not in a challenge challenge mood also because I knew I was walking on eggshells because it was a couple of Careful seal. And so he email blasts out what he wants the name of the program to be. If he listens to this, he might kill me. He wants to call it Giddy Up.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Host 1]

And I open this email and I read it and I probably went on a cussing tangent. Not to anybody, but just like to myself first. Like, are you kidding me? Like, I am not gonna be the face of a program called Giddy Up. Like, that just sounds so sort of mocking of country kind of thing. Like, and not that that was his intention, obviously.

[Host 2]

I don't even know. Well, I don't know how to spell a lot, but I can't even picture.

[Host 1]

How to spell G I D D Y up. So giddy up is okay. Like, yeehaw. Giddy up.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And I was just like, absolutely not. And then everybody starts emailing to each other, but without him on it. Good thing none of these people still work for the company. And we're like, oh my God, this name is not good. And I'm like, who's going to tell them? And they're all like, you have to tell them. And I'm like, I'm not saying shit. Because I wasn't in the space of being able to challenge because I had already just challenged. And so nobody is saying anything. And I'm like, oh my God. This is going to be the name of my Giddy. Yeah. And, you know, he was like, you know, like, get up off the couch. Giddy up. And I'm like. And so finally, we were in a meeting one day, and, I don't know, he was saying stuff about it, blah, blah, blah. And I just looked across the table and I was like, the name is terrible.

[Host 2]

Okay?

[Host 1]

And I'm not gonna. Like, I kind of. So this is it. I bottled it up, right. And I was like. And then it kind of comes out. Well, I'm not trying to be rude. I've just now kept the feelings inside for a little too long.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And. And I'm panicking again. I'm not being mean. I'm panicking because I'm the face of it. And I don't want to look like I'm disrespecting a music, especially one that I really appreciate. And again, I know that was never the intention, of course, but, I mean.

[Host 2]

I hate the word giddy.

[Host 1]

Giddy. Giddy up. It just sounds so, like, like. So I finally just kind of was like. I was like, the name is terrible. I'm not going to be the face of a program called Giddy Up. Like, and it was funny because he was like, I've been waiting for somebody to challenge the name. And I was like, well, nobody likes it.

[Host 2]

So I have a question. And, you know, more sitting, like, at that kind of conference table than. Than anyone else, but do you think you would have gotten the same results if you would have said something? Something like, can I be honest about something? I love all the hard work we put into this program. Everything about it as it's coming together. I can't wait for people to be able to do it. But I'm just not sold on the name. Do you think that. Do you think that that's a. Do you like.

[Host 1]

Oh, would it? Of course. And honestly, I don't remember exactly how I said it. I just remember that I said it sucked.

[Host 2]

Well, I think what you said, I really app you sharing that story because I. Everything you said, I think makes sense. Like, when something gets bottled up and you don't know how to say it. And I do think you're a little bit of a word. Vom. Like, not.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I do. I word.

[Host 2]

You're like that.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You just say it.

[Host 1]

No filter.

[Host 2]

And it's like, okay.

[Host 1]

And then I have to backpedal and apologize and be like, I'm just freaking out. Here's why. But I could have just taken a. And I'VE gotten better at it. Like, I will say I work so too really hard to not get triggered like that. And I hate the word triggered, but to not get, like, emotionally, like, panicked. Because it can come off rude or it can come off disrespectful, I think.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Especially if you're like, again, other people that you're working with, higher ups, people below you, you don't want to talk down to them. But yes, no, you're right, of course. Yeah. You get more with honey. Like, so I appreciate this is what I've always appreciated about our CEO is like, he does know me and my personality. So, like, depending on where I say things and how I say things, he would let it slide. And other times my job was threatened.

[Host 2]

Well, you know, because.

[Host 1]

I said it, I snapped at the wrong time. So there's that.

[Host 2]

That's what it's like when you're the star. Sometimes you just gotta say, I said green. M M.

[Host 1]

No, never that. Not ever. And no, like I said. And I always do. Like, I'm very good about letting anybody I'm working with know that I very much appreciate their hard work and what's going into it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

As long as there's hard work going into it. But again, if somebody's dicking around and not doing the work and then their work is falling on me, I'll be the first to throw you under the bus.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I feel like there's a healthy balance in between the. Even though, like, to your. You are saying that you've grown and whatever, I agree. And I have too. But I instinctually, most of the time, like, I might not have said anything.

[Host 1]

And you would have just went without a program.

[Host 2]

And the whole time I'd have been like, I love it. Don't hate it because of the name, guys. You know what I mean? Like, okay, you should be. You should. It's uncomfortable sometimes, but finding a way to appropriately say something. It's like both of our emotions would. Could have gotten the best of us. Not that you saying the name sucks is that big of a deal, but it's bet. But at least you didn't just say, oh, I guess we're going with the shitty name.

[Host 1]

Oh, well, that's what I said for like four days. And I was like, I can't take it.

[Host 2]

This is too. Oh, absolutely not. And country you such a good name.

[Host 1]

I know. It was such a good name. I know. I didn't come up with it.

[Host 2]

It's good.

[Host 1]

Sometimes you got to just challenge somebody to do better work.

[Host 2]

As a bonus, do you have any other, like, names that you guys were thinking of for that program that you can remember?

[Host 1]

Not for Country Heat. The Master's Hammer and Chisel. Took us a really long time to get to that name because it was always. The name was always like, RC always. Always wanted to call it Master's Hammer and Chisel, or he wanted to call it Hammer and Chisel. Funny story, when we went to go trademark that there was some sex toy. Oh, I don't remember if it was called Hammer. I don't remember which name it was, but it was. It was a roadblock, which is why it ended up being called the Masters Hammer and Chisel.

[Host 2]

I didn't even know it was called that.

[Host 1]

I didn't like the name 21 Day Fix when I was told that name. But now I can't imagine that program being called anything else.

[Host 2]

Like, that's how it goes, I think. 80 day obsession.

[Host 1]

You even had a. I panicked about 80 days. About the name Obsession.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Night Control Freak. I panicked about that name. Huh.

[Host 2]

So listen, of course I was wondering, like, behind.

[Host 1]

But those aren't ones that I like, aggressively know. The.

[Host 2]

The.

[Host 1]

The giddy up was one that I was like, oh, no.

[Host 2]

I'm glad you did.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Everything else was more just discussions. Names grew on me. Some names I really liked out of the gate. Belvital. Took a long time to get that name.

[Host 2]

Of course, you had to take Duolingo. Learn French.

[Host 1]

It's not even. It's not even appropriate French. Bobby mocks me for it all the time. He's like, is that Italian? Is that French? It's not how you'd say it. Either way, I'm like, shut up. You know what it means.

[Host 2]

That's right. That's what matters. Do the program. Thank me later.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I was gonna ask you another question.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Host 2]

I really didn't intend for this. Being like I was interviewing you. I don't feel like I'm putting you in the heart.

[Host 1]

I know. I'm totally. But we're gonna flip that script in a minute.

[Host 2]

I was gonna ask you if you're comfortable sharing how you said you wanted a divorce.

[Host 1]

Oh, okay.

[Host 2]

Because that's a. I mean, was it in a heated, like.

[Host 1]

No.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

It was not heated at all. It. And it was. We had already been. We had been talking for, like, a year. Like, I. I don't. Well, I had been talking, and somebody probably hadn't been listening about some things that I needed to change for us to keep going in the marriage and for Me to feel like things were gonna work and it just wasn't happening. And it wasn't happening, and it wasn't happening. And there was. I was. I was reaching my breaking point. And I will say this. And this is just me. This is not me putting this on. This is what other people have to do. I just know myself well enough. Like, I was. Like, I. My parents had a horrible divorce, and even though they got divorced when I was 2, it was toxic from that point on. And I remember it as a kid, like, and I'm the youngest, so I can't even imagine what Kaylee and Bobby remember, like, how much fighting there was over the years. I never wanted to get to that point. I never wanted to hate the person.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Especially since we had a child. And even though Dom was 2, when I asked for the divorce, like, you know, it was like he was one when it was starting to get a little, like, okay, things need to change. Blah, blah. So I just knew, like, okay, if things aren't really changing and it's been a year of trying and nothing's. Nothing is changing, this. This isn't going to go well anymore. It's not going to be what.

[Host 2]

Things are just going to get uglier.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And if. And I don't want to get to the point where it turns into this angry, hate each other thing. I also knew I needed to get all of my feelings out without being interrupted. And that is not an easy conversation to have, like, emotions and all that. So I. We had gone to a lunch. There was some things that happened at the lunch, like, with a. There was a bunch of people at it. There was just some things that I felt a little disrespected about. Like, and nobody else would have necessarily picked up on it, but it was just something that was, again, another breaking point that I felt like I was being dismissed. And I left that lunch. I took Dom and left, like, sort of soon as I was done eating, even though there was still my husband at the time and his family was all still there. And I was like, I'm gonna take the baby home. And I wrote it in an email. And now some people might be like, well, that's harsh, but, like, he's coming home. Like, we're gonna talk. But I needed to be able. Like. So it was whether I was gonna write it on a piece of paper or type it up and print it out and let him sit there and read it or whatever. But I also knew he was gonna need time to process his feelings about what he Was gonna hear.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So it went in an email. He got it. He turned his phone off. I didn't hear from him for four or five hours. Then he came home, and then we started having discussions about what had happened. And there wasn't really, like a. He didn't ask. I think I said in the email we needed to separate. And he said, you want a divorce? And I said, probably. And he didn't ask to work on it.

[Host 2]

Did you guys have, like. Because I guess around the subject of bringing that up, I think that's very smart. By the way, I knew someone one time who had accrued a lot of debt, and her husband didn't know. Oh, yeah. It's the whole thing. But she told him in the email. And sometimes I really do think that that's a really good way to communicate something because your emotions can get the best of you. And then, like, we're talking about, you might say things. Instead of just trying to communicate what you're feeling and being honest, you might say things with also an intention to hurt. And it's not like I find this with myself sometimes. It's not that I want to make someone else hurt, but I want them to feel what I'm feeling.

[Host 1]

You want them to understand where you're coming from.

[Host 2]

And so sometimes, like you say, I'll say harsh. And I think, like, I'm thinking about Nell, and I hardly ever fight, but sometimes if we're arguing and it's like that I see in myself, like, I really. What I'm looking for is to get a response, but that's not a healthy way to communicate something that you're feeling. So I think that's great. Before that, did you guys have a lot of, like, did you yell a lot in your arguments?

[Host 1]

Like, okay, no, we weren't like, we. No, we didn't fight at all. We got along for the most. We grew apart. That was the biggest thing, is we just grew hard. And it happens. And it was again, like, he didn't ask to try to make it work. Mm. And there were things that had been building up.

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[Guest or Sponsor Voice]

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[Host 1]

We are, you know, of course, 15 years later, we're still great friends. He works for me, he's at my house every day. He's family.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

It's crazy to be like, oh, we were married once, because, like, we just do. Seems like another life, not have that kind of relationship at all. So, yes, it does seem like another life, but we. So some people would look at it as like, you got a divorce, you failed. I don't think we failed at all. I think we have been so successful because we're still family. And that's really ultimately, like, when we decided to join our lives, we decided to be family. Well, we're still family. And our son doesn't have to experience anything other than mom's here for me and dad's here for me. And guess what? Like, I can't play them against each other. They don't use me as a pawn. I still see them both all the time. I can talk to both of them. Like, I could talk with them together. I could talk with them, you know, like, we're family. That to me is way more successful than staying in a marriage that is not the best. And getting to a point where you resent the person, hate the person, cheat on, like, all the things, like whatever it is. Like, I just don't. For me, I feel like I have been very successful in that relationship. We just are relating in a different way.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

[Host 1]

So, yeah. And look, the first two years. Did we say things like the first two years of the divorce? Of course it's hard. It's still emotional, it's still raw. Like, he didn't start working for me until four or five years later.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And we had to work through a lot of that.

[Guest or Sponsor Voice]

But.

[Host 1]

But because I think we got out when we did. We were able to.

[Host 2]

You didn't burn bridges that you might have if you just stayed into the pit of resentment.

[Host 1]

And then that's that is where maybe you start thinking you're being brutally honest, but really you're being mean.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

Because you take little digs when every time they irritate you, you're like, oh. And you cut them. Because you know how.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

When you really know somebody, believe it or not, when you know somebody is when you can hurt them the most. Because you know all their points, all the insecurities, the. And. And then you weaponize them.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And that. Okay, so let's.

[Host 2]

I had a friend. You want to hear something terrible? I said once.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

I had a friend who was going through a difficult time. And this. I was in my twenties and I didn't. I had no understanding. Not just like what a professional would, but even like a regular person. And it was different 20ish years ago. I was in my early 20s, so I didn't understand, like, complexities around mental health and the way different people are different. And so I. This person was upset and I was like feeling impatient and I was like, you know what? You don't want to be better. You don't want to feel better. You don't want to be happy. You like your life being miserable because then you get to be the victim. And you're afraid that if people aren't thinking of you because they feel sorry for you, then they won't be thinking of you at all.

[Host 1]

Do you want to hear something terrible?

[Host 2]

I guess we're on the subject. Let's go and see. So my.

[Host 1]

Because sometimes, Listen, I don't know the person, so I'm not sure who you're talking, but sometimes that. If that's what's happening, sometimes you got to hit him between the eyes with the hard truth of, like, are you being the martyr? Are you playing the victim? Are you just fucking feeling, like, sorry for your. What? Let's go. Like we have a choice. Like, there was. I saw a thing recently on Instagram or something that was like, at a certain point, you're no longer the victim to how you were raised. It's a choice. Like, as an adult, like, you're an adult now. You're no longer the victim to those things. Like, listen, we've joked about our childhood, cried about all the things, but, like, at a certain point, I'm a 45 year old woman. What happened? Things that happened with my mom, things that happened with my dad, things that my family said to me that made me feel bad about myself. Like, I have to grow up in process and go, okay, but I know that's not me. Or I know that wasn't about me or that they did the best they could. I can't keep holding on to that identity because it gets me attention or it makes me feel safe or it excuses bad behavior on my part. Right. Because a lot of times my snapping came from that.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

People put me down a lot as a kid. And so if somebody made me feel unintelligent or attacked or invalidated, I would snap. Okay, well, I have to correct that behavior because I can't. I. I'm not a kid anymore.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

So I honestly now, again, I don't know of what the mental health issue was, but, like, if somebody's in serious depression, you gotta be careful with what you say. But. Yeah, sometimes you gotta say it flat out, point blank how it is.

[Host 2]

Yeah, no, that is true. It's just such a fine line. And even though, like, I feel like that the fine line for me is saying something like, why do we say what we say? Because even if that is true, I don't know most people, I don't think it would help them change.

[Host 1]

I guess you have to know who you're talking to. I guess knowing the personality, like, if they're going to respond to that or if they're going to spiral deeper.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's true.

[Host 1]

But I do think some people respond to. I think sometimes people need to be just given a little shake of like, what are you doing here?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because the more you baby them, the more they just stay in it.

[Host 2]

It feeds.

[Host 1]

Yeah, feeds that. So you have to know. And like, if it was the first time they were complaining about something, I wouldn't necessarily go right to that. But if it's been like a repeat for weeks or months or whatever. Again, there's only so much you can hear, like you want to help, but there's only so much that you could be like, we're having the same conversation and you're not changing anything.

[Host 2]

And so, yeah, I think, like, if I was in that position again with a close friend, and most of my close friends aren't chronic, because I want to be this specific, like, about that example. A lot of people have struggles, myself included. I have times where I'm. And I need to talk to a friend or I just don't feel the joy and like, that happens to everyone and that's okay. But I. I mean, there are people that you come across who it's like, oh, you actually like having problems. This is a big part of your identity.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Like, they're thriving in the chaos of.

[Host 2]

It, which I don't I don't have a lot of friends like that now, but if I was faced with that position again, I think I would, would. I would more intentionally say something like, I'm happy to be here for you in your struggles, but we also have to start counting victories and things that you're good at and things that you win at. We have to do both because that gives another. That might give like an action that changes. And then if they just want to complain about something, maybe they'll stop calling me, you know.

[Host 1]

So I have another question, though, like, because we've, we've talked about it more in like, work, friendship, relationship, but has there ever been a time maybe more like a random one off interaction with somebody? Is somebody like, I don't know, are you at a store? And the way you're interacting, like somebody's being snip. I'm just asking, has there ever been a time?

[Host 2]

Yes. Well, the most recent time we actually talked about on, in the customer service episode. Oh, the grocery store couldn't be nice. I couldn't be. I mean, I was like, probably the glare I was giving at the workers at that store.

[Host 1]

Well, that, that wasn't even a. Are you being honest or are you being rude? That was like you were being, you were being profiled basically, like in, in a. Not.

[Host 2]

I haven't had a lot of, like, times with a stranger, but I have had, you know, the moments that really get. If someone says, like, I'm laughing because of all the shit I gave you when you cut your hair. If someone's like, do you like my outfit?

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

That's not a fair question to ask. Because if you don't give me any other out, I'm actually just not going to be honest. I'm going to say, yeah, but I.

[Host 1]

Wouldn'T want you to. I, I would want you to be honest. So if I ask you if I like my, if you like my outfit, it. I'm asking probably because I'm on the fence about it. And so I'm looking for honest feedback of like, wait, listen, episode one of Everything's Perfect. You're not a real friend if you let me walk out of the house looking stupid.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's true.

[Host 1]

So if I'm asking you, I'm trying to make sure I don't walk out looking stupid.

[Host 2]

I'm saying once you're out the house, you know, someone shows up at my house, let's say they left their house already. Like, you get there and you're like, do you, do you, do you like my outfit? I would always say yes, even though you have good style. So I like your outfits, but you have no way of knowing if. I'm not taking this. Okay, but if it's a. If you're asking me and you're. So what I would say is like. Or like the question women might ask their husbands or friends or whatever, Do I look fat in this? That's.

[Host 1]

That's an unfair question.

[Host 2]

Out of your vocabulary. That's a bullshit question. And the appropriate thing to say might be like, do you prefer. Do you think this outfit looks better on me? Or I have another option and let them say, I love that one. Or let me see the other option.

[Host 1]

Yes, you. Yes.

[Host 2]

Don't back my ass into a corner.

[Host 1]

Yes, that's true. You can't back somebody in a corner because then it's going to come off rude. But really, you set them up for failure. You can't say, do I look fat? Well, I mean, that's so relative.

[Host 2]

First of all, like, and, and everyone has their body. It's. It's not about. It's kind of a weird question.

[Host 1]

Listen, what does your outfit have to do? I know I'm not fat. And there are times where I put something on and for whatever reason, I'm.

[Host 2]

Like, this ain't it.

[Host 1]

Why I feel really good naked? Why do I feel fat dressed? Like. And I'll send a photo and be like, is it me? Or does this isn't laying right? You know, like, sometimes you're like, am I seeing what I'm seeing? Or is that just my body dysmorphia kicking in for real? You know? So I think a lot of times, depending on who's asking, they might say it and it's like, okay, you're being ridiculous. You don't look fat, obviously. And then I think there's other people that are not super comfortable with where they're at. And if you say it like that, it's just that word fat is such a negative mean word to yourself or anything. And then you're asking somebody to essentially call you that back because you're saying, do I like this? You're setting them up for you are. For not even being able to give you honest feedback about the fact that they might like you're. They love you and you're beautiful. But maybe something about the cut isn't the most flattering. And you're putting them in a position to either have to lie or to have to really try to pick their words very carefully. And the second they start picking Their words carefully. It still feels like they're calling you fat. Because your question was, do I look fat?

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

So you got to change your question so that somebody doesn't feel like they're using a really mean word at you. Like, right, do you think this looks flattering? Or do you think I should pick something else or.

[Host 2]

Flattering. Sorry. Stupid.

[Host 1]

So just know I can't ever ask Donald again about my outfits.

[Host 2]

No, yeah, I agree. I don't even know if people in this day and age still ask that question. But that was a question that. That was a very common question.

[Host 1]

Very common question of us growing up.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I heard people all around me in my sphere asking those kinds of questions. It was, do I look fat in this? I look fat in this. Whatever. And it's like, that question should have never been on the books. There's no winning. That's ridiculous.

[Host 1]

You're just putting somebody in a place.

[Host 2]

Because also, if you're very thin and fit, you're a. For asking that question.

[Host 1]

Like, oh, really?

[Host 2]

Like, oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

Now you're just looking for a compliment. Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's like, oh, my God.

[Host 1]

Yeah, that is. But it is. It is important to be aware of how you respond in the tough situations. I do know that, like, I. Like I said, this is something I've really worked on for myself for a long time, is like, there is being honest. And you can be honest and still be polite.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Still be nice. Still not be condescending or make somebody feel bad or embarrass them, unless somebody's a real asshole. And then you gotta let them know. But there is being, you know, honest, and then there's just being rude or mean because you're trying to. And I'd be lying if I said there haven't been times in life where I've purposely tried.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

To hurt. To hurt somebody because they've hurt me first. But that's no excuse, and it's not appropriate.

[Host 2]

So it's like I. I did that once. The good memory. One time.

[Host 1]

One time.

[Host 2]

One low moment. No. Okay. First of all, there's moments in my mind that I wanted on a podcast. Honey. There's things that don't need to be made record of that I've said in my life, but. What? On my fur. I can't remember if I've ever told the story on the podcast. My first apartment. I had. I paid rent in cash and I had this vacation planned with friends.

[Host 1]

You did, but telling.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

So, long story short, my. I told my landlord I'm Going on vacation, you have to come here to pick up the rent by this time. And she was like. And we had to be at our reservation for the boat we were renting at a certain time. So she was like, I'm 15 minutes away, just leave it in the mailbox. So I put other. There was. I put other, like junk mail in the mailbox and I sealed the envelope and put the cash in the mailbox. And anyways, leave, go on vacation. There's no way. I've never had anything stolen out of the mailbox. Well, the next day, like into the evening. So more than 24 hours later, right? Nearly 36 hours later, she texted me and says, I just checked and the money's not in the mailbox. And I was so mad because at that time it. I didn't have. Well, first of all, based on principle, I would still be frustrated with that, even though I would never leave a wad of cash in a mailbox now. But I was 21 and it was my first apartment. Was just doing what she said. And I was so mad. And she said, well, maybe you shouldn't. If you can't afford your rent, maybe you shouldn't have gone on vacation with your friends. And I was like, do you know who I am? I could buy and sell you in a day. You are nothing. Like, I was losing my shit. My friends were like. When I got off the phone, my friends on the vacation with me were like, donald, you can't talk to people that way. And I'm like, like, she either stole the money or she lied to me. It got stolen because she was negligent.

[Host 1]

She was showing up. Yeah, if you say you're going in 15 minutes. Well, obviously the next day. Unless the next day was a Sunday. The mailman's been there, right? So he might have taken the envelope. Just thinking that you left mail in the mailbox that needed to be mailed.

[Host 2]

Bonus. Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

Who knows? It gets. Oh, there's no address, there's no anything on there. Who do we return this to? He's picking up mail all day long. He doesn't know where the friggin came from. So it's like, like, well, that's not your fault. She said, leave it in the mailbox. Yeah, so guess what? Rent's on you this month.

[Host 2]

But I sure did blackout. Like when I tell you I was just seeing red and I was saying every mean thing I could say, it was so ridiculous. And I came home and they changed the locks to my apartment and tried not to let me In. So I was a singer at a, at a medium sized church at that time. And there was, there was a, that guy who was a partner at a law office there. And so he represented me and got like, it was this whole thing. But I remember thinking, this is never gonna mess with me again. But in a more practical thing, totally different story about like being honest. So Nell and I were about to go someplace.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And he had a shirt, this, his outfit on.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

And he was like, like, what do you think of this shirt? And I said, you know what? I think that it looks really nice on you. It's not a shirt that I would wear because it had like sunflowers all over it. That's not really my style. But now it's extra rainbows and sunshine. Sunshine and flowers. And it's like, okay. Exactly. And, but I was like, but, but I think it looks good and I think that if you feel good in it, you should definitely wear it.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I felt like that was 100% honest. And actually instead of saying, I could have just said I love it, but I would. I, I, for some reason I wanted to be like fully honest in that moment. But I felt like it was a polite way of saying of being honest.

[Host 1]

Okay. So let me ask you the real honest. Even though we're, we're on camera and he will probably see this, did you really like the way it looked on him or were you like embarrassed? No, he was wearing it out.

[Host 2]

I, I was not embarrassed. He was wearing it out. If I also with him, I think it's probably different in same sex relationships. I don't know. Because I've never been in a heterosexual relationship. I don't know how y' all do that.

[Host 1]

Not well.

[Host 2]

But I, with, with him, I would say, like, I think you should wear like, I would say, I think this would look really good or this is what I think you should wear. But he also, and sometimes he listens to me and he's even said to me before, like, you've really changed my style a lot. And I love it and I appreciate that so much. But there's also things that he just loves and I love that because I don't want to. I used to think I wanted to date a clone of myself, but I really like, you know. And so with that shirt, I really. It was cute. It was, it was just not, was not what I would wear.

[Host 1]

I have definitely had times with guys, be it friends or relationship, where their style has not been the best. And it's like, well, clearly I'M already dating you, so I'm not dating you for your style. But also, I will let you know.

[Host 2]

That that ain't it.

[Host 1]

That that ain't it.

[Host 2]

Like, I love you, so I want you to be in the best.

[Host 1]

But this shirt.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Have you ever been with me and thought, what is this wearing?

[Host 1]

No, I love your style.

[Host 2]

Oh, good. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

No, I love your style. Okay, well, you set yourself up. Don't lie.

[Host 2]

No, I can't. Literally nothing comes to mind.

[Host 1]

There were some 80 day obsession outfits. I look back on and I'm like, oh, who let me wear that?

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's not. That's definitely not my fault. Anything I wore on that.

[Host 1]

Also, we were trying to put 80 outfits together at that point. We had pulled every pant that was on the market, every sports bra. Like, there's these one pair of pants. Every time I see the video, I'm like, oh, dear God, they look like 70s wallpaper. And they're literally up to my boobs. I'm like, they were the highest high waisted. Terrible. I was like, why we.

[Guest or Sponsor Voice]

The.

[Host 2]

The whole idea of, like the outfits and the different col. 80 day was so freaking complicated. Like, by the time we were got to four weeks for everybody, I was like, oh, this is a dream. It's basically like a palette. We all wear something cute and it works.

[Host 1]

Yes. Muted colors. Palette.

[Host 2]

And 80 day, it was like, we have to have bright purple over here, so put the orange one over here. And we can't have leopard print and.

[Host 1]

Because it was a big cast.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And okay. So that is another time, though. I have been very vocal over the years because I understand when it comes to cast like that, if you're in something you're not comfortable in, you're not going to perform as well.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And sometimes producers or stylists or whatever, like, they have their opinion. But again, if. If the wardrobe doesn't make the person feel good, you. You just. It's not like we're in a movie. We're working out. Like, it's not a character piece. It's like they need to feel good. And I also understand background cast not being willing to speak up for themselves because they don't want to lose a job and things like that. So I have definitely spoken up and I have worked with some people who I absolutely love, but who don't necessarily say things the nicest way. And they've said sort of mean, meanish things to background cast and like, well, you're gonna wear this and da, da, da, da. And I'VE had to jumped in. Jump in. I didn't have to, but I have jumped in. And I'm like, absolutely not. No, they're not gonna wear it. Cause if they don't feel good, they're not gonna perform. And that's. That's a problem for me.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because obviously it's all about me, and it really wasn't. But I would all. I would almost make it like that about me. Of, like, if they're not happy, that's going to reflect on the program and the person at home. So, like, no, we're not going to force them. You've got a whole wardrobe back there, and if they don't like that shirt, then let them put on a different shirt.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Now, I've not always been the best, because sometimes that's happened out on the floor in front of people. But that's because they're, like, reviewing it and they're saying not nice things and making the person feel bad. And I've. And they're. The person is back there, like. And I could see their eyes welling with tears, and I'm like, is it really. We're not gonna do this?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Huh.

[Host 2]

No, I actually really appreciated that about you because I have seen, you know, we've been. We've. I wonder how many hours we've spent on set together.

[Host 1]

I mean, God, 80 day alone.

[Host 2]

Exactly.

[Host 1]

80 hours.

[Host 2]

So, like, you see all you see and those. If you film something and with rehearsals and filming, you're there for four months, you're going to see the good, the bad, and everything in between of a per. Of the people you work with. And I. So, yes, I've seen, like, that snap side. But also I. As in the Being in the background cast, we always felt, like, protected or, like, if we wanted to take some of our clothes at the end of the shoot, you always really fought for us to be able to do that. You're like, what, you're gonna go get these sweaty 80 day worn clothes to someone else? Let them take their clothes. You know, stuff like that.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And I want to be very clear. Like, Bodi is amazing. They're like. They're always so understated. Like, this is just part of production to have a difference of opinions or, like, for one person to come in and, like, they have their vision. And so. And you're. When you're dealing in a creative space and you have multiple creatives, everybody's kind of vying for how they see it, and nobody's trying to, like, make the other person wrong. Everybody's trying to make it the best best. So I just want to be clear. I don't want to make it sound like I'm trying to say like, oh, there was always a problem or no, this, this is just the way it goes, the process. Like, yeah. Especially when you're, there's big groups of people working on projects.

[Host 2]

Such a big project.

[Host 1]

Yeah. They, and that. They're all big. You know, they've all been big projects. So you're always gonna have days where. And also then you have to just remember there's real life and people come in and sometimes they're having a hard day. Sometimes something's happening personally. And like, like you're not trying to be rude, but sometimes whatever is happening in real life spills over into the work or the friendship or, or, or vice versa. If something happens at work and you come home and that spills over into maybe being a little short with somebody at home.

[Host 2]

So I told no, like when I was working at the restaurant because I, I would come home and be a little bit more short tempered. And I was like, you know, and, and I'm mature enough to know he just wants to talk to me. I've been gone.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And it's like, but I've been taking people's order, remembering things like stimulated for hours. And I just want quiet.

[Host 1]

It's the best part about driving home.

[Host 2]

Exactly. Maybe take a few extra laps around the block. Exactly.

[Host 1]

It's like, aren't you all. You're like, I'm in the car having.

[Host 2]

A drink, literally watching a show. So. But I do think, like that's also a time where I, I, I feel myself having the desire to be like, can you just be quiet? But that's not the nice way.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

To ask for what you need. Even though quiet is what you need.

[Host 1]

Right. Shove a sack in his mouth.

[Host 2]

No talking. No talking. No talking. That's my, that's my nice way.

[Host 1]

Never. It's my favorite thing you've ever said.

[Host 2]

Anyways.

[Host 1]

Well, this has been fun. I think I probably just made myself not look good.

[Host 2]

I think you look great. The thing.

[Host 1]

I look fabulous. I sound like a. I think you look great.

[Host 2]

But I could be lying because we've already established I lie about that. I just think it's like, remember if you're, if, if this is my takeaway. And I think it's good for all of us to think about. If you're nervous about saying something, just think of the nicest way to say. Still saying what you want to say. And Go do that. Because it is easy to just be like, this is uncomfortable. So I'm not even going to put a lot of thought into it and just blurt out whatever's on my mind.

[Host 1]

I would say think about how you would want to receive the message that you're about to give. So, like, if you just flip it on, like, how you're about to say it to somebody and think, is that how I'd want it said to me? You're probably gonna take a beat. That's the biggest thing I've. Like, if I'm going into a situation where I already know it's gonna be contentious, I actually have a little conversation in my head before I go in of like, you are going to breathe. You are going to think before you speak. We're gonna let people finish their sentences. We're going to hear them out. We're gonna like, I just, I have. I take a minute or two and now that doesn't always mean it happens because sometimes somebody says something in the moment and gotta answer and respond. But I, I feel like in just in working on myself and like, trying to grow, I'm. I, I am much better at, even if I'm being blunt, softening the edges a little bit.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But again, don't, don't test me.

[Host 2]

And nobody's perfect, so don't be surprised.

[Host 1]

Don't be the. Yeah, everything's perfect except the words that.

[Host 2]

Come out of my mouth sometimes.

[Host 1]

Okay, this has been fun.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's been great. We love that you guys tune in and you join us for these conversations. Also, we didn't do it today, but if you would like us to weigh in on something that you're experiencing or facing, we call those our phone a friend segments. And you can email your phone a friend request at everything's perfect podcast gmail.com or just let us know what you're thinking of the podcast. We love to hear from you.

[Host 1]

Yep. You can find us on social. Everything's Perfect official on Instagram. We've got a couple really good phone of friends coming up, so stay tuned for those. Stay tuned for those until then.

[Host 2]

We'll see you guys.

[Host 1]

See you next time.

[Host 2]

My.