Everything’s Perfect…Except the Labels

Summary

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Everything’s Perfect…Except the Labels

Everything’s Perfect podcast – May 12, 2026
Hosts: Autumn Calabrese & Donald Stamper

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the complexities of personal identity, focusing on labels related to sexuality, gender, and self-expression. Intertwined with candid stories of recent cosmetic procedures, the hosts explore their own journeys and respond to a listener’s struggle with defining her queer identity as she reenters the dating world. The conversation is open-hearted, funny, and unfiltered, tackling the pressure to conform to labels and how identities can shift over time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cosmetic Procedures & Self-Perception

• Donald’s Experience (03:07–14:31)
  Donald openly discusses his recent cosmetic surgeries: an upper eye blepharoplasty, MyEllevate neck lift, and laser resurfacing. He details the surprising intensity of recovery, including hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and reflects on the vulnerability of sharing his journey online.

  • Notable Quote:
    “They were like, oh, yeah, you’ll just be red for a few days. No, bitch, your whole face peels off.”
    — Donald (04:25)

  • Transparency Over Secrecy:
    Donald highlighted the importance of being transparent about cosmetic work, emphasizing his desire to “look like me” and avoid the trap of overdone enhancements.

  • Discussion Point:
    Autumn relates this to her experience with lip filler, echoing the anxiety of altering a feature she already liked.

  • Notable Quote:
    “Is this really necessary? But I can see, like, it really does look more youthful. It looks good.”
    — Autumn (11:25)

2. Revisiting Labels: Listener’s “Phone a Friend” Dilemma

• The Listener’s Story (16:17–18:03)
  A listener, long identifying as queer, is mostly attracted to men and feels conflicted about how this aligns with her identity.

  • Fear of “Letting the Queer Community Down:”
    Hosts discuss how identity can feel like an obligation rather than a reflection of true experience.

    • Notable Quote:
      “She wants to be true to herself, but she also feels a little bit like she is… letting the queer community down.”
      — Autumn (17:53)

3. What Do Labels Mean in 2026?

• The Language of Identity (18:15–21:07)

  • Donald admits to confusion over “queer” and “pansexual” labels, with Autumn explaining that queer can mean anything outside “heteronormative” and isn’t limited to sexuality.

    • Quote:
      “When someone says ‘I’m queer,’ it could mean anything. But it just means they’re different than heteronormative.”
      — Autumn (19:47)

• Practicality Over Pressure:
  Donald emphasizes not getting caught up in terminology and focusing on loving the person, not the label.

  • Quote:
    “Love is love...I don’t really think the label matters.”
    — Donald (22:12)

4. Navigating Disclosure in Relationships

• What Do We “Owe” Partners? (25:36–30:12) The hosts discuss how much of one’s past—particularly related to sexuality—should be shared with partners. Both favor honesty, particularly if attraction patterns could impact the relationship.

  • Quote:
    “If you’re regularly attracted to both [genders], then I think maybe [you should share], because...are you going to be sexually satisfied by just being with one?”
    — Donald (28:05)

5. The Fluidity of Attraction & Experience

• Is Experimentation an Identity? (33:26–41:25)
  Donald and Autumn debate whether one-off experiences change someone’s identity, highlighting the spectrum of sexuality and the role of personal identification vs. others' labeling.

  • Quote:
    “I believe that you could have gone and had sex with her...and still be a straight woman. Sometimes people figure their shit out in different ways.”
    — Autumn (35:31)

• They agree that enjoying a same-sex experience out of curiosity or adventure doesn’t necessarily mean adopting a new label, unless it feels authentic.

6. Labels Should Serve YOU—not the World

• Personal Empowerment in Self-Definition (32:44–43:22) Labels, the hosts argue, should exist to empower and clarify—but not confine or pressure someone into new boxes.

  • Quote:
    “Don’t feel like you need to jump out of one box just to live in another...The point of all of those labels is to serve you—not the cause of queerness.”
    — Autumn (32:44, 48:42)

• Note:
  Autumn stresses that, especially for women and moms, reclaiming identity can be empowering—even outside the context of sexuality.

7. Reality Check: Monogamy, Fluidity & Relationship Needs

• Questions About Bisexuality and Open Relationships (41:25–56:06) The distinctions between sexual preference, physical attraction, romantic love, and relationship structure lead to playful—but real—questions about relationship satisfaction, monogamy, and honesty.

• Pop Culture Examples:

  • Chrishell from Selling Sunset is discussed as an example of identity shifts and visibility in real time (51:55).

• Energetic Compatibility:

  • “I really need to be emotionally a thousand [percent] connected. Otherwise I’d be out there hoeing around.”
    — Donald (57:02)

8. Takeaways & Listener Encouragement

• You Don’t Owe Anyone an Explanation (33:03–34:26, 47:39–48:53) The hosts stress that sexuality, gender expression, and identity are private unless one chooses to share, and that you don’t need to perform or explain your identity for anyone else.

  • Quote:
    “If you ain’t in the relationship, it’s none of your business.”
    — Donald (33:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I wanted to be very transparent about [cosmetic work]...I don’t want to not look like me.”
  — Donald (09:44)

• “I felt like I was being held in a box...not to jump out of one box just to live in another.”
  — Autumn (31:17)

• “Labels always confuse me. ...To me, love is love.”
  — Donald (22:29)

• “The whole point is that you’re attracted to the person and not the label.”
  — Donald (22:29)

• “Don’t feel like you have to feel like you’re betraying your community...go ahead.”
  — Donald (31:09)

• “Sometimes I want vanilla, sometimes I want chocolate cake. You never know. Sometimes a red velvet sneaks in.”
  — Autumn (44:36)

• “We’re not trying to be experts...you’re asking for our advice…do what makes you happy and don’t worry about what anybody else is going to think.”
  — Donald (47:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Donald’s Cosmetic Surgery Story: 03:07–14:31
• Listener’s Identity Dilemma Introduced: 16:17
• Discussion Around “Queer”/Pansexual/Pan/etc.: 18:15–21:07
• Advice on Disclosure in Relationships: 25:36–30:12
• Debate Over Labels and Experimentation: 33:26–41:25
• Pop Culture: Bisexuality, Monogamy, Chrishell from Selling Sunset: 51:54–55:15
• Final Takeaways & Listener Encouragement: 47:39–48:53

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Tone & Style

• Candid, vulnerable, lighthearted, and often irreverently funny
• Willingness to admit what they don’t know (“We probably leave you with more questions...”)
• Welcoming to all listeners, especially those figuring out their own identities

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Closing Thoughts

Autumn and Donald ultimately champion doing what feels right for you, embracing change, and resisting pressure to fit into pre-set boxes—whether about cosmetic work or sexuality. They encourage listeners to use labels if they serve you, discard them if they don’t, and always prioritize honesty, consent, and your own happiness.

“Do what makes you happy and don’t worry about what anybody else is going to think.”
— Donald (47:21)

---

Transcript

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[Donald]

I remember one time when I waited tables, I went out with a bunch of friends. So I worked with gay people, straight people. Like, those were the only two identities. Like, okay. Like, nobody was claiming anything else, but they were like, let's go to the Abbey. I'm like, what's the Abbey? They're like, it's the gay bar. I'm like, okay, we're going to gay bar and everybody's drinking. I was pretty drunk and I'm like. And one of the girls we were out with and she grabbed me and kissed me and I was like, what's happening? And she was like, did you like that? And I was like, no. Like, I don't know. I'm not into. Although I'm hammered. Like, what's happening?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, my nipples aren't hard.

[Donald]

No, I was like, I wasn't like, oh, let's go in the back room. Like, no, I'm not into it. Hi.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Hi.

[Donald]

Welcome back.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Thank you so much. It's good to be back.

[Donald]

I know. I mean, back as in back in our studio.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So many pretty things. This can, your new face, my new face. So many good things happening.

[Donald]

I'm so happy about my new face and that can. But this new face, I don't have any. Well, I have a little mascara on because I'm still a little plumped up. Swollen and red.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I don't think I've tasted this one.

[Donald]

Probably not good.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Your face said it's got it like a. It's like essence. Yeah. Like, it's like more than just taste that's happening. Like, I feel like I can. I don't know how to describe that, but it's like so good.

[Donald]

Yeah. You know, it is a really good one. It's like, it reminds me of wine, which is a little bit of like what it's supposed to replace. So it's like a little earthy. Like a little.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Like full bodied in your mouth. Like the flavors.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. Like sometimes things. Flavors of things sit really heavy on your tongue and that's not what this is like at all. It feels like it. It's really good. I love it.

[Donald]

I'm glad you like it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So. But in case anyone missed that, the fact that you had something done. Yeah.

[Donald]

I guess I should tell them what

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

we're talking about and I think some people would like to hear, you know.

[Donald]

Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

How far post. Post op you are, how you're feeling

[Donald]

all the things right now as we're filming. I'm 12 days post op. So I had an upper eye bluff blephoplasty where they remove a little bit of skin from your upper eye. Like I have hooded eyelids and you know, you get older and it starts to sag down a little bit so it makes you look a little tired. And then I had something called the my elevate neck lift where they just sort of pull tiny little bit like just to help with like my, I guess your jowls and a little bit of neck. And then I also did laser resurfacing. So the upper eye blaft and the elevate neck lift are actually very minimally invasive procedures. Like, they're really not that big of a deal. The laser that my doctor did, you can only do that particular laser under anesthesia.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like that's the real deal.

[Donald]

Yeah. Like I had the option to either do like the other, the upper eye bluff and then my elevate necklace awake and just under like laughing gas in the office or to go under for it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Oh, really?

[Donald]

Yeah, like he would have done it awake. I was like, I don't think I need to be awake while you're cutting into my eyeball. Like not into my eye, but like above my eye. But also he was like, I want to do the stronger laser. It's going to really help. And he's like, you need to be under for that.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Anyways, some back to the future shit. Back to the past.

[Donald]

Back to the past, honey. But I will say in general, it's been really easy But I really wasn't fully prepared for that laser. Like, that was more intense than I realized because they were like, oh, yeah, you'll just be red for a few days. No, bitch, your whole face peels off.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Do you feel like a leper in public? Like, does it just feel.

[Donald]

So I went to Dallas to do it. So I stayed with Joel and Megan. So, you know, my surgery was first thing in the morning. Great. Under came home back to Joel and Megan's. And again, because Joel had something similar. He had an under eye bleph and the my elevate three weeks before me. But he didn't do the laser. So I had. I thought he did. So I had watched his stories, and I was like, I know I'm good. He looks great. All things. So when I came out, like, you know, I knew my head would be wrapped, but I had. They had a drain in for, like, extra fluid, so I wasn't expecting that. And they're like, well, I had one in each side. And they're like, oh, it'll come out tomorrow. Because I had to go back the next time.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And that was because of the neck. The drain was for that?

[Donald]

Yeah, I guess. But Joel didn't have to have it, so I don't know why. Like, maybe I just was bleeding a little bit more or whatever. So, you know, I just went to Joel's house. And then the next day, car service back to the doctor took one of the drains out. I was pissed about that because they left one in, and it was super uncomfortable. It wasn't painful. It was uncomfortable because it was like, goes like behind your ear and, like, into your jaw. It was weird. Anyways, the next day they took that out. But you're also. Each day you're going and you're doing hyperbaric oxygen chambers for an hour, which I'm very proud of myself of because I have claustrophobia. So the fact that I could do

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

the hyperbaric and stick it out for the full time.

[Donald]

Stick it out. I was very impressed with myself.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So hyperbaric is something that people use. Yeah, I'm sure, Like, it's used outside of just for these kinds of procedures.

[Donald]

Yeah, you can go and do hyperbaric no matter what.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

What is it for? I actually never heard of it before.

[Donald]

Oxygen going into your body. So it's like pumping. You have the mask on, it's pumping in. So your cells run on oxygen. So, like, it's speeds the healing process up significantly, can help with energy. It could help with a lot of different things. But I was doing medical grade level hyperbaric. So in Dallas, it was like 90% pure oxygen going in. When I got back to LA, there's a place right down the street from me and I was doing it there that's 100% pure oxygen going in. And it does speed up the recovery process.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Wow.

[Donald]

Which was nice.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And so you have. Your thing is the air going in the mask, but you're in a chamber.

[Donald]

You're in a chamber.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I picture it as like some kind of weird whole chamber compression thing. I don't really understand.

[Donald]

There's a bunch of different ones. The one in Dallas, it has like a big reclining chair in it and like it almost slides down. Like almost like if you were in a, in a ride type cage. So it's pretty big. And. But you can't bring anything in because you can't have any static electricity, anything. I put my phone outside of it and would. I had them put on Friends for me because I was like, I can. I could be okay if I understand the time. Like, okay, one episode is about 27 minutes. So I'm two episodes in. I know I'm almost done. I know. You know, I'm okay. Like that one day I had him not do it. And I really started to kind of have a panic attack. But there's a call button. Like the nurse comes in, they check on you, you're fine. But so that like that one, like it slides down and you're just sitting in a big lazy chair. The one I did back here, that one was always a little bit more of a mind because it looks like a submarine tube. It's like round and there's like a pad in there, some pillows, a blanket and that one. And like they like. Because it's pressurized so you're locked in, you can't get out. Like they, it takes 15 minutes to pressurize you. Then they start pumping your oxygen in. You're in for an hour and then it's 15 minutes to depressurize. If you wanted to get out or needed to get out, they could do it. But it's kind of like it could mess your ears up because it would be like surfacing from deep in the water, like really fast. Like it's not good. And the one here, like they put Netflix on and like the window screen and there was like a little microphone inside. But the first three days I was doing like the Canela that's up your nose. Just because I didn't want the mask on my face because everything Was so raw right when I got back here. I did one day with the nose, and then they were like, we really want you to try the mask. Because then none of the oxygen is escaping. It's all going right in. So I did that. It's been. I still have stitches in, like, there's still some, like, just behind my ear. They'll fall out over time. They're like. They're ones that fall out. But I'm happy with it. I'm really happy.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Good. I think I'm excited. Your skin definitely does look like some new.

[Donald]

It's like some baby skin, let me tell you.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

It's one of those things. Like, when I first saw on your Instagram, were still recovering, I was like, I hope it's worth it. Is this. Is she okay? But seeing it, I'm like, okay, I know what I need.

[Donald]

I will tell you, man, it is crazy. Like, cuz, you know, you can see how many people look at your Instagram stories on a regular basis. And let me tell you, people are morbid. Because when I posted what I look like afterwards, that thing skyrocketed by hundreds of thousands of views. I was like, y' all must be just like, look at how crazy Autumn looks. Well, but I was like, I didn't. I obviously was not. I wanted to be very transparent about it. You know, I'm 45. I was like, I don't want to not look like me. That was very important. Like, when I was talking to the doctor, I was like, I'm gonna be really scared. Like, I'm gonna be really upset if I don't look like me. Like, don't pull some real tight. Like, yeah, take a few years off.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I was thinking about that.

[Donald]

So that was scary. But again, I knew multiple people that had gone to the doctor, and knowing that Joel had done it, like, and looked just like Joel, refreshed. I had actually booked my appointment before him, but I just couldn't get in because I had to travel. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, to each their own, right? But, like, I love it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Totally.

[Donald]

I was like, say less about this laser. I know where I'll be in five years.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

For real.

[Donald]

Like, nothing needs to be pulled again. Just.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah, not in five years.

[Donald]

No.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Everyone always gets a second facelift, though.

[Donald]

Okay. I didn't get a facelift.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Well, neck lift, whatever you want to call it, honey.

[Donald]

They just call it. I. I didn't even like that. It's called a. My elevate necklace. Because I was like, no, that makes it sound like I went and Just

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

like, who cares what they call it? I look like that at all. Like, you can see when people get that kind. You know what I mean? No, it looks so good. And I definitely was a friend that was like, I'm a. If you like it, I love it. Boo. If you want to do it.

[Donald]

Yes.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

She works hard for her money. Let her do what she wants to do. But I was like, is this really necessary? But I can see, like, it really does look more youthful. It looks good.

[Donald]

So wait till I put up the side by side. I got. I want to let the. All the swelling go down because I'm still a little swollen and I'm definitely still red. So I probably think, like, maybe another week and then I'm going to put up the. I took a photo the morning of surgery before, and I want to put up the one after to be like, this is why. Like, I. I wasn't like, oh, my God, I hate myself or anything like that. But I was just like, why not, man? I'm still, you know, I'm in front of the camera all the time.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, I think it's great. I mean, we talked about it before. Like, the reason people have problems with that is because people have a really hard time understanding that somebody can make a decision about their body and their face or what they do. And that doesn't mean anything about what someone else chooses to do. It doesn't mean that, like, people who decide to have work done think that people who don't are less attractive even. It's just about a personal thing that you want to do with your body.

[Donald]

And I think, yes.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So I'm.

[Donald]

I mean, listen, if anything, I'll be like, good for you for being more secure than me.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I.

[Donald]

Right. I don't know what you want me to tell you.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, I just, I don't want to look in the mirror and be like, oh,

[Donald]

no, no, go back to where you used to be.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

No, but thinking about. I thought about this for you too. You mentioned, like, I don't forget how you just worded it, but like, if you would look different or whatever. Yeah, I remember because I think the only thing I could consider say that is like, work that I've had done is the lip filler that I've gotten. And the first time I went, I was so worried because I like my lips. Yeah, I like. And I was like, am I about to mess up my face? Is this gonna look crazy?

[Donald]

You can't mess up the money maker. Exact.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And so. But I knew with filler at least I. I understood. Even though now people say it never goes away. Just migraines.

[Donald]

Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But I was like, okay. But doing something like that, this is a little bit more like, oh, no, what if I don't do it? Yeah.

[Donald]

Like, if they pull or something and you don't like it, like, you're out of luck. Yeah, I know. So that was scary.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

But again, I did.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

It turned out great.

[Donald]

I did my research. I always think less is better. And I went to Dallas to do it for one. Because, again, the doctor, like, it's not like we don't have amazing doctors here in la.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

But I will say, if I would have got the same thing here in la, it probably would have cost me three times as much.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

And I wouldn't have done it, like, because it's just. That would be a lot.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I think I've seen online, like, some, like, other people going to Dallas for. Yeah, some. I wonder if there's a reason that is, like, if Dallas is becoming that, like, the place people go for that kind of thing.

[Donald]

Like, where, like, people are going for.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Work and stuff.

[SpinQuest Host]

Work.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I don't know. But it looks good. Boo. Cheers.

[Donald]

Cheers. I'm happy to hear this. Energizer. To me and my new face.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Okay. Well, I've started wearing Invisalign again, so.

[Donald]

Okay.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And I really feel like, honestly, it's so. Also, people said to me, like, you don't need it, Your teeth are straight, whatever. But just, you know, you see the little changes happening, you just want to cut it off. And I feel good about that, so.

[Donald]

You look fantastic.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Thank you.

[Donald]

I'm here for this outfit.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Thank you. I was feeling it.

[Donald]

Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I wasn't sure, though. The weather is kind of crazy.

[Donald]

It's been weird. Like, it's been really overcast. And then in the middle of the day, it's really hot and then it'll get cold again.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Freezing cold. I just put everything I owned in a suitcase so I could stay. I moved back.

[Donald]

Perfect.

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[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So we got a phone, a friend we were going to talk about.

[Donald]

Yeah. You want to just sum it up?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Because it was a little long.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right. So one of our listeners messaged us and was talking about how it's a. It's a dating phone. A friend. You can jump in if you feel like I miss any important points. But essentially for years she has been focusing on raising her kids and like that kind of life. But she's opened herself up now because they're too old to start out of the house. She has her two youngest, but she's ready to start dating again. And she's always identified as a queer person.

[Donald]

Correct.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Is the. To use exactly what she said, which maybe we'll get into what.

[Donald]

We're gonna need to get into that. Because I actually had to have Donald go over some terms with me before the 90s.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

That word has taken on a lot of different meanings. But.

[Donald]

And I sure, I'm saying it respectfully

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

and appropriately, of course, but her explanation of that in my own words is that she is open to dating. It doesn't matter to her if it's a female or a male or someone who is non binary or a trans person. It's about the person and she. And she's really open to that.

[Donald]

Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So lately she's been finding herself really mostly just attracted to men, which I believe she means what we would call cisgendered men, which means you were born a man. Like a biology.

[Donald]

She said straight men. That's the way she worded it, as straight men.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Okay. Yeah, that's.

[Donald]

Those were the words she used.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And so the dilemma that she's facing is she wants to be true to herself, but she also feels a little bit like she is. She doesn't want to let the queer community down.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And she feels this interesting, you know, like, I don't know, she feels torn or like just. But it's interesting that she would feel that way.

[Donald]

Listen, it opened up an interesting conversation for Donald and I because we already technically did the podcast at my kitchen table. And we're like, well, we should have really just rolled. We really should have just went outside and started the cameras and talked. But, like, the first thing I was saying was it for me, that's why I had asked you, like, well, what does queer mean? Okay. Like, the way she described it was. It's more to her about the person. I was trying to understand what that meant compared to other terms. You also explained to me it's pansexual. Pansexual?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I think so. I mean, I could be wrong, but my understanding is pansexual. Don't worry. It's just my indigestion. Something's never changed since the last time we recorded.

[Donald]

Yeah, right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Pansexual is when someone is attracted to, like, an emotional connection with a person. I think. It's not about, like, an overall. They don't feel attraction just because of someone's gender. I don't know if there is a difference between pansexual and what she's saying, but queer can mean, like, I. What I said to Autumn, just for purposes of our. This conversation, if someone says they're queer, it. It could mean that they're gay or lesbian, or it could mean none of those things. They're just identifying as, like, I guess, other with that group.

[Donald]

Like, they're not straight.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Or not female or straight male. Like they like.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Or maybe I would say not heteronormative.

[Donald]

Okay.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So, like, yes, you could be bisexual or gay or lesbian, or maybe a queer person could be like, I'm just coming up with an example. I hope no one gets offended by it. But let's say man who is a heterosexual man, a straight man who loves to wear fingernail polish and lipstick. And maybe like, their sexual practices don't have anything to do with it, but they just identify as a queer person because they're different than what's perceived as normal. That's. When someone says I'm queer. It could mean anything. But it just means they're. They're different than heteronormative.

[Donald]

Well, now you just threw me for a loop.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Sorry.

[Donald]

Because I always assumed it was about sexual preference. But if somebody wears. I mean, every rocker out there wears nail polish and eyeliner.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. No, I would.

[Donald]

They fall under the.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

They could if.

[Donald]

If they deemed so.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Exactly.

[Donald]

I see.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, someone could be. Someone could be like, as a member of the queer community, and it could be because maybe they love to, you know, like, maybe someone who loves to cross dress, if they were open about it. And honest. They could. They could consider themselves a member of the queer community, even though it doesn't have anything to do with their sexual orientation. But we digress.

[Donald]

Let's. Let's go back to our listener for a second.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Sorry.

[Donald]

So she basically was like, she feels like she's letting the queer community down because she is finding herself right now at the moment, attracted to her words, straight men. And so I guess maybe she's thinking about it as, like, well, if I'm out or if I'm bringing this person around, family and friends, and it's a straight man, then they're gonna just think I'm a straight woman dating a straight man. And they're not gonna understand that. Like, I'm a part of the queer community. Maybe that's sort of like, yeah, what she's thinking. And she wants to make sure that she's still representative to me. I guess my advice would be this. I. I feel this way about everything. I don't care. Like, the labels always confuse me. And I, you know, I try to honor that, like, with whatever somebody, however somebody wants me to reference it. I don't care. Like, it's. That's your preference. You tell me. And that's how I will reference it to me. Love is love. So, like, if you love the man, then great. And you're in. I don't really think the label matters, I guess, unless you're in an open relationship and you need to explain to the person that you're with, hey, Tom, I also like women. And so I'm not going to be completely satisfied by you. So I need to also be able to sleep with.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Or have sexual relationship with. To me, I don't know. I. Again, I can't fully speak on it because I don't experience that. So I'm not sure. But, like, I would just say I think you could still absolutely be a part of and support the queer community, and you're still a part of the queer community. Like, you don't have to. The whole point is that you're attracted to the person and not the label. So let it be that you're attracted to the person that. So if you meet a wonderful person and he happens to be a straight man, that's fine. That's. Then that's the relationship you're in.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. It really becomes a conversation about identity and, like, why it matters. It's funny because Nell, my. My. My partner has never. He never felt like he needed to come out.

[Donald]

Okay.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And I think it's. He, his family, on his dad's side, I think there were eight grandsons, and four of them were gay.

[Donald]

Oh, wow.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And also his sister is gay. And I think there's some gays on the other side. So it's just a thing that's in their family. And it's like he never felt like he needed to make that statement. I felt how I was raised, I think this is what a lot of people feel. You're put in a position where it's assumed that you're, quote, normal or like most people around you, unless you say otherwise.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And it all of a sudden, even though you don't owe anyone any explanation, not sharing feels like you're lying. And it also feels like you're playing a part that's really you. Now, as a gay man, that is so tangible to me because I don't have the same potential. And as the. As far as I can imagine in this lifetime of falling in a romantic love with a woman and still needing to feel that different identity. Right. But I told you, I. I follow someone on Instagram that is a married woman. She married to a man, they're in a closed relationship, and she needed to come out as bisexual. And it was this big thing. It's important for her for awareness and a lot of stuff. Even though they're not in an open relationship, she's not looking for something. And so it's like, okay, there is. People do feel this need to be seen and known, even if it doesn't maybe immediately affect anybody.

[Donald]

Yeah. You know, I guess. Yeah. Like, and. And if you feel that way, like that you need that part known or expressed, then you find the ways to do that. And that doesn't necessarily mean through having, like, multiple sexual partners. It could just be through, like, awareness, support parades, talking openly. If it comes up. I think if I use the wrong terms, just tell me, because I'm not trying. I don't know if I'm going to say this offensively, and I don't mean to.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Okay.

[Donald]

But like, okay, she's a woman dating a straight man. He probably should know your history, like, just so he understands it and isn't caught off guard by it. So that's probably a. I don't know if that's a first date conversation, but that's probably a sooner than later, just so the person's aware.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Mm. Well, to that point, I was going to say this is an interesting thing because I always wonder, what of our past do we owe to our partner? Like, they're like, there are still things that I'll share with Nell because it feels appropriate and it comes up, but

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[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

and ways to save like like let's say you dated a girl in college. Like in whatever you guys. Or whatever. Yeah, bumped donuts I think.

[Donald]

But I'm really sorry, I don't know. I've never dated a girl so but surely kidding.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But let's say in college you did and it was like, you know, like a nine month thing or whatever and it was like a real like you really thought you were into it. Do you feel like you need to tell your people you date now?

[Donald]

It would depend on if it was one girl one time in college and the 20 years have passed and I've never found myself attracted to another woman like that or if, if I found if I was somebody who was attracted to both men and women, I guess there's a. You know what I'm saying?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like yes.

[Donald]

Like if you're regularly attracted to both, then I think maybe because I would. So if I put myself on the other side of that, like if I'm dating a guy and he's bi and he's like hey, I've been with men and I like men and I also like women. I want to know because I'm entering a territory I'm not familiar with and I don't know what your sexual needs are, then going to be like are you, are you going to be satisfied with if you're attracted to both, are you going to be sexually satisfied by just being with one? Or am I going to have to worry that you're going to go out and not be open and honest with me because now you're cheating. I don't care what the sex is.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. Or are you gonna have to get a strap on and.

[Donald]

Yeah. Or am I gonna be asked for some.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Are you dumb top?

[Donald]

Not weird King. But like, am I gonna be asked for a kink later that maybe I'm right. Not comfortable with and I need. I would rather know sooner than later before I'm invested really deep.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Because it. Because that would be. Out of. That wouldn't have been a typical situation for me.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Not because I have a judgment on it. I just would need to wrap my brain around it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

You know what I'm saying? Like, because that, like I said, it just. I mean, you got to worry enough about, like, just as a girl, I gotta worry about enough about another girl coming in the way of things. Like when you're with the guy, like now I gotta worry about. I'm competing with men and women. Me.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

And only me. Please, please. I don't want to add to this.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

How many people am I competing with? So I would want to know for that reason. But like I said, if it was like this one off thing where it was like, oh, yeah. Like I was confused or I was experimenting 20 years ago. But no, then I don't think you have to necessarily.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. That makes sense. I do think I get. And also it's just part of who you are. It feels to me like if. And. And maybe that's like the girl I. I reference, the woman I referenced who came out as bi in her marriage. Maybe that was part of it. Maybe it was because, like feeling dishonest because you have attraction. Because the fact is monogamy isn't easy. Whether you're straight, bi, gay, pansexual, all

[Donald]

the sexuals you are.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. Because sometimes you just like you're attracted

[Donald]

to more than one person and you're

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

frustrated with your partner. You wonder if you like, whatever the feelings that everyone in a relationship knows that those come. And then the hard part of being in a relationship is when you show up and make. And show up for your commitment. So. But I do, I think it makes sense that you want to be honest with someone because then it feels, it feels like you're lying about feelings you have otherwise.

[Donald]

But I don't feel like you have to feel like you're betraying your community or something. Like I go, no, go ahead.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I have, I've told a lot of people, like, don't feel like you need to jump out of. Because I think what happens, like, for me, just speaking personally, I felt like I was being held in a box in a. Like. Like a heterosexual Christian. This is like cookie cutter. What it's supposed to look like. Everyone thought I'd grow up, marry a woman, have kids, and be a pastor. And it's like, did you really. Did you really think that? Did you look at me? Did you look at the way I walked? There were signs without me saying it, but I guess you're gonna make me. So. So. But I've told people, because you feel like you're in that box.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Not to jump out of one box, just to live in another. And I think sometimes, especially because all of the titles. And I'm not anti. Like, how specific people can get with identifying themselves. Because if that serves you, that's great. But don't feel like, okay, I'm not heteronormative straight person, so I have to be, you know, this person and this person all the time, and everybody has to know. And I can't, for example, be mostly attracted to straight men because I'm. I'm. I'm this now.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And I just think it's important to remember the point of all of those labels, all of, like, any of those things is to serve you Right. Not, like, the cause of queerness.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But so that you can feel confident in who you are.

[Donald]

Exactly. That's for you to understand.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

What are you attracted to? What feels good to you? What are you looking for?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right.

[Donald]

Aside from that. I. It's not really anybody's business. I know everybody likes to make it their business about everybody's personal lives.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Mm.

[Donald]

But I'm like, hey, if you ain't in the relationship, it's none of your business.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Exactly. Like I used to say. This is before I was comfortable saying I was gay.

[Donald]

Huh.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But I was like, if people would ask me about my sexuality, I'd be like, I ain't fudgeing you. So do you need to know anything else?

[Donald]

Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, how else does it affect you?

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

If you are immediately involved in the situation.

[Donald]

Are you trying to date me? I'm not interested. Like, I don't know. Like, what do you want me to. Because, yeah, I do think, like, we get so hung up on, obviously, society, societal norms. What are people going to think? What are people going to say? And it's just. Just nobody else's business. Like, that's really what I come down to is. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Like, the whole topic is so interesting to me. Like, I could go down the rabbit hole for hours because I'm like, I have questions and what is this? Like, okay, I remember one time. This was. God, what was I, 22, 23, maybe? When I waited tables, Like, I went out with a bunch of friends. So I worked with gay people, straight people. Like, those were the only two identities that, like, okay. Like, nobody was claiming anything else, but they were like, let's go to the Abbey. I'm like, what's the Abbey? They're like, it's the gay bar. I'm like, okay, we're going to the gay bar, and everybody's drinking. And one of the girls we were out with, I guess, was maybe bi, but I didn't know that. Anyways, I was pretty drunk, and I'm like, standing at the bar, and she grabbed me and kissed me, and I was like, what's happening? And she was like, did you like that? And I was like,

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

no.

[Donald]

Like, I don't know. I'm not into.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Also, I'm hammered. Like, what's happening?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, my nipples aren't hard.

[Donald]

No, I was like. I wasn't like, oh, let's go in the back room. Like, no, I'm not into it. That doesn't. Like, I don't fall then under.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right.

[Donald]

A category. But, like, I don't know. Would people be like, but you let a girl kiss you? Well, no, I didn't. I was drunk.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right. Well, the fact is, I don't.

[Donald]

Well, I mean, I was like, oh, my God, I was assaulted. No, whatever. We were drunk. I don't care.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I believe that people. This is pretty far out there for people, But I believe that, like, you could have. I believe that you could have gone and had sex with her, whatever that means.

[Donald]

I did not.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But I believe that you could have done that and still be a straight woman. Because I think, like, I. I did. Because, first of all, it's about how you identify, and sometimes people figure their out in different ways.

[Donald]

Okay.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And I have experimented with. With women when I was younger, and. But that doesn't mean that I'm bi, right? Because it was like, I'm not into that. And, you know, like.

[Donald]

Okay, I have another question. I. I don't know that you're gonna have the answer for it, but it's just so. There's plenty of people out there. Like, first of all, we all know guys get hot over, like, the idea of a threesome, right? Like, oh, my girl. And I. Mm. So if there's a. Again, I'm Straight couple, guy and girl, heterosexual. And they bring a third person in for a fun one night. And okay, let's say it's a husband, wife and they're like, yeah, let's whatever. And the wife is like into it, but she's into it because she's, because her husband's into it and she wants him to be turned on and like she's doing all the things and she's not like repulsed by it, but she also wouldn't necessarily be like, well, let's exit him out and yeah, okay,

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

that's it.

[Donald]

Is she, is, does she fall under a fun night or does she fall under a, a different label?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

And my, like, she enjoyed it enough as a fun night, right? Is she queer or is she just adventurous? I would say adventurous.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I would say adventurous. But you know, there are some, what's interesting is there are some people who would be like, oh, absolutely not. If someone does that, they're bisexual or something. My thing is if the husband left the room, would she want to continue

[Donald]

or would they time out or would

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

it be like he's gone? That's the reason we're both here, right? Because I feel like if that's the vibe, in my opinion, which I do not set the standard, but in my opinion, okay, then you're actually into him and you're both just like doing that for. Because you're into men. Or at least you are his partner and you know, Right.

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[Donald]

Okay, but what if. Well, now, see, now that my brain's going because I'm like, well, what if. I don't know, what if he gets up to pee or something? And they keep going because everybody's just in the moment and who knows? Maybe they've had cocktails or something. If she keeps it going, is she queer? I'm. I'm just. I don't know. I guess it would, again, be more how she identifies than, like, what other people would identify.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I don't know, because I like our

[Donald]

place to put the label on it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right. I think that. But I do think that she is. Adventurous is a good word. And there should be.

[Donald]

You know, you gotta add another letter. A for. There's already A. Oh, A plus A. I don't know.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah, we have to add a second.

[Donald]

That's where I think it does get. Maybe some people get a little confused, though, because there are a lot of letters and thing and like, trying to understand it. Like, again, somebody like me, I'm not trying to be offensive in it. I just haven't really taken the time to fully learn exactly what each thing means. Obviously, I know what gay means. I know what lesbian means. I understand bisexual, but, like, I needed you to explain Pansexual. When people say queer, I've never. I don't fully understand, like, I'm getting a better grasp on what that means.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

But, yeah, I think sometimes people have a hard time because if they're not in that sort of world, like, we're in la, so obviously I'm. You know, people are much more open about it here. But, like, if you're in a part of the country where it's not talked about or open, it might just be harder to understand totally in general, because you're not exposed to it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. And also I think an important distinction too is as there are people. It's honestly sexuality. So with which queerness is not just about sexuality, but sexuality is such a spectrum. Because there are people.

[Donald]

I have another question, but go ahead.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

There are people who would like the woman, the wife in that situation.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

She could maybe be fine having, like, some physical. Like that. There are people who can be very, like, enjoy that, but have no romantic. Like, you know that when you. When you're into someone.

[Bretzky]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Like, no. Like, oh, my God, I want to go to the movies and cuddle with you on a couch.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Like, I just love her. She makes me laugh. That there are people who are also. And so I would say, well, then that person is like, if they're only really into men that way. Well, then you're just a little freaky. Freaky. But. But you're still not bi. Because a bisexual, I don't know, wants

[Donald]

to have a relationship. That's also. But I don't know, though, because there's plenty of people who just don't want relationships in general.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

You know what? The world is a broken place. Why are we trying to figure this out? Just don't hurt anybody.

[Donald]

We got question. I was like, let's talk about it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Let it be two or more consenting adults. And I don't give a.

[Donald]

Exactly. Well, because there's also being fluid. What's that? Yeah, I mean, I thought being fluid just like, does that mean you like boys and girls or does that mean kind of like, again, you're fluid? As in it could be a guy, it could be a girl, it could be a trans. Like, what does. Yeah, what does that mean?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I feel like that's a good question.

[Donald]

I feel like you're gay. I put you on this. You really. I don't expect you to know any more than I do, but I like.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Well, there's a couple things. I like that you ask the questions, especially while we're on the pod, while we're on the podcast, because other people might have those questions. And I think it's good to know everyone is just kind of, first of all, everyone's figuring themselves out and then doing that. Everyone's figuring their life out and so.

[Donald]

And then you're trying to figure out the other people.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Exactly. These terms are like, you know, like, do with them what you will. But I. Again, it's to the point, I think,

[Donald]

just don't use them derogatory away, of course.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And I think it's really important to know that your identity isn't about how other people see you as much as how you want to present yourself. And so whatever the titles make you feel empowered, own them. But if there's something that you feel like doesn't align with you. But maybe it's true because you think since you would be, you know, in that type of situation, maybe you're supposed to say that you're bisexual, but you don't feel bisexual. Don't say you're bisexual. Just, you know what I mean? Own what you believe to be true about yourself. And for those who are close to you that you want to open up to, you can.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But yeah, it's a. We could. Honestly, we keep talking about this for hours.

[Donald]

Like, I could go so down the rabbit hole because I'm like, there's so many questions about all of it. But at the end of the day, I go back to the like. Like you said, just be a good person.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

Treat whoever you're in a relationship with well. Make sure you guys are on the same page about whatever that relationship is.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yes.

[Donald]

And the expectations you have for it.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

And also be aware that people's feelings change all the time.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

And that's like yours, Yours. Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

That's what a hundred percent like. And that doesn't mean I say that with a lot of caution because I would never want someone to take that as. Oh, I'm not actually like, I wanted not to be gay for a long time. I thought that it was a terrible thing that I couldn't shake and I was depressed about it and all. And it's like I wanted that to be a phase. I wanted it to be a passing thought. And so there are things that's not about.

[Donald]

That's not what I meant.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I know it's not. So I only say. I. I just. I know that's not what you meant at all. I only say that so that it can be double down. No.

[Donald]

Yes.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Known that. That you know there are things about that is just who you are. And it's okay most of the time. Like if you're not harming anyone, if you know that, then that's okay. But you can change your mind about what you're into, especially if you are into all of the genders and all the things it's okay to. Sometimes I want vanilla, sometimes I want chocolate cake. You know what I mean? You never know. Sometimes a red velvet sneaks in and I really. I'm.

[Donald]

You're doing a chocolate rose. I like red wine. I also like white.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

One time I had a sample de

[Donald]

Merlot that used to be a Chardonnay. Chardonnay.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And occasionally not the label. Yeah.

[Donald]

That actually though was okay. Spit it out. Are you choking again?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I've choked so many times today.

[Donald]

You so many times today on Liquids Wild. I'm really concerned about your well being.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I'm so sorry about all the noise.

[Donald]

You literally sound like me, Dom's bulldog. That's like constantly snorting. No, I was going to say that was like the most brilliant writing Creek. But like when he did that and the way he described that like it was so just eloquently done.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah, I just.

[Donald]

I love that show.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

There's actually a scene. I'll. I'll play it for you later. Speaking of pansexual, where Johnny Rose tells someone, my son's a pansexual, and I think he gives a little definition, so that could help us all out.

[Donald]

Okay. There is. I don't remember that.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I think so. Yeah.

[Donald]

Huh. Yeah. We have to look that up. I. I've watched that show enough times that I should remember. Are you okay?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I'm okay. Just give me a minute. Earlier, we were eating, you guys. And you know, when you eat, I don't know if it was like, a little seed or something tickles. But it lands somewhere back there that it's never coming out. Sometimes a popcorn skin will do that.

[Donald]

Like. Like you have a hair and it takes your voice.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

You're like, are you okay? I was like, breathe. I just can't talk. All right, well, I'll find the pensexual saying later.

[Donald]

Okay.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Share it with you. But you guys, any questions you have, as you see, we'll dive into pretty much any topic we're not.

[Donald]

Whether we're qualified to speak on it or not.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Exactly.

[Donald]

Nine times out of 10, we probably leave you with more questions.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Just remember, we mean no harm if we say something that. Out of total ignorance. But we really do. I think it's good to have these kind of conversations. So I'm glad we get to.

[Donald]

Yeah. Like, we're not trying to be experts in anything. We're just. You're asking for our advice. My. Yeah. I think, again, back to this viewer or. Yeah. This listener. Like, do what makes you happy and don't worry about what anybody else is going to think.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And I would. I know. Like, I. I know we're wrapping up, but I would say to anyone who's listening, who's like. Like, when is the last time you've really taken in what you identify as? I remember the first time I really laid a detailed Facebook profile, like, explaining myself, and it felt so empowering at the time to say, like, I just went through a long list of things that I liked, and I felt like, wow, I like. This is so cool to see who I am written down. And I think some people, especially, I have such a. I empathize with moms so much because so many women just lose themselves for a huge portion of their life because they're the wife to their husband or partner or whatever. They're the mom to their kids. A lot. A lot of moms today also have to work outside of the home in addition, and so they're that. And I think a lot of women especially, like, lose how they identify as who they are at the core. And I just really hope the conversation can encourage everyone to know that it's not about fitting in something that already exists. It's about really just owning who you are and making space for that in your life. Yeah, that's how I would say it.

[Donald]

I love that. There was one other thought I just had that I kind of feel like I have to say it really quick, which is just

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[Donald]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[SpinQuest Host]

Oh, no.

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[Donald]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

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Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Liberty, Liberty.

[Donald]

Liberty. Liberty. It does frustrate me that our listener had to ask the question, because if I go back to that example that we were talking about, like, the husband and wife, if they were to have a threesome, I don't think any of those listeners would write in and be like, well, that's not true. I guess we had one. We had that one where she was like, oh, I have a boyfriend and his best friend and the girlfriend, and we work out at the gym together, and then she's been flirting with me, and then we started making out in the bathroom and am I gay? And, like, I kind of want to explore it and do I have to talk to my boyfriend about it? So I guess. Guess maybe. But I was going to say in general, I just don't think. I think, again, if I'm using the wrong term, sorry, but I think straight people are allowed to be adventurous and never ask. They. You don't ask the question.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right?

[Donald]

Like, you're not like, oh, am I? Or does this mean. Or whatever. And then unfortunately, people that are a part of LGBTQ queer community, like, sometimes feel like they have to say more like, I don't think again, that was just a made up example. But I don't think that husband and wife would go out there and be like, we're queer. Yeah, we had a threesome. Like, I don't think they would feel the need to say that.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right? Yeah. I think especially when you feel pressured to say something, just remember you. I needed to make a statement to identify myself as gay.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And Nell didn't. And neither of those stories are bad. And it's really, you know, it's like really good to know that you can feel things and explore things. And it doesn't mean you have to make a statement about who you are. That's different. Like that, like a girl can make out with a girl and think, I kind of like that. Do I like making out with girls? It doesn't have to think, am I a lesbian?

[Donald]

Like, oh man, I gotta go tell my parents.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Exactly.

[Donald]

Maybe eventually if you decide that.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right.

[Donald]

It does remind me of one other person. I'm going down the rabbit hole because we've got a few more minutes.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Okay?

[Donald]

Okay. Do you ever watch Selling Sunset?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

So Chrishell, huh? For all intensive purposes, you know, she was married to a man, dated other men, then she was in her committed relationship with Jason. They were talking about having kids, that relationship broke up. She filmed the music video with G. Huh.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Now she's with a non binary.

[Donald]

She's with a non binary person. And I guess, I think she identifies as, as queer. I don't know if she identifies as lesbian or queer.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I would confidently say, well, she, I don't think she would call herself lesbian. And this is where it gets confusing because like, or maybe by looking at G, you like, like G is a non binary person. But, but some, I'm sure, gets misgendered as a female.

[Donald]

Right?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And so, but I'm, I know that Chris Shell, I've seen an interview. She refers to herself as a member of the queer community.

[Donald]

Right?

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah, it is, it is so interesting to see that like on reality shows when you didn't know something was going to go a certain way. I think that about the Kardashians with Brew with Caitlyn all the time, right? Like they didn't even know that that was gonna happen. And then. Anyway.

[Donald]

Yeah, that one threw me though, Chrishell, because I still like, so that's like when I asked the questions of like, is, are, are you, are you always satisfied then by this person or because you were with. Let me be blunt, you had dick for a real long time, you know, like, so do you miss dick? I mean, I'm sure There's like, strap on, but that doesn't feel the same. I would assume.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I think that they're.

[Donald]

There's probably, like, no right answer. I'm just.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Well, you. I mean, I don't. I feel like when you're monogamous, you're always gonna kind of. Even if it was a different. Like, like, even if, like.

[Donald]

I don't know. Because I was. I was quite happy and wasn't ever looking for or considering a different dick. A different dick.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah.

[Donald]

I am now,

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

So. Hello. Well, we've talked about this too, because, like, I am not. Like, I feel like I could. We're gonna go so far down the rabbit hole. Do it. I think that some like. Like, for example, if I was to be with a trans person, I would be more attract. I would be attracted to a trans man even if they hadn't had bottom surgery. Which. Which me. And this is. That's something you don't ever ask a trans person. But for the sake of what we're talking about, I don't feel like I'd be like, oh, I miss.

[Donald]

So when you say trans man, I just want to make sure I'm understanding that that means somebody who was born female and transitioned to mal.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And so a lot of times.

[Donald]

But it's more obviously than presenting masculine energy. So you would be. You could potentially be attracted to that and not miss.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Versus. Let's say, for the sake of this story, there was a trans woman who hadn't had bottom surgery. I'm attracted to men. And. And I wouldn't be even if that, like, it's. It feels wrong to talk about genitalia of trans people. But for. For the sake of the conversation.

[Donald]

We're trying. Yeah. What you're trying to explain.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I would not. I'm not like, oh, I'm gonna look. Go for the dick.

[Donald]

Right.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Because I'm attracted to energy. And so I would be much. I think I could. I mean, I'm in a relationship, but I could have been happy in a relationship with a trans man regardless of if they'd had bottom surgery or not. So I just think some people are. Some people. That's more important than others.

[Donald]

Interesting. I'm fascinated by.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

What's my title? I'm just kidding. I don't know. Fluid.

[Donald]

No, but it's an interesting topic because I'm attracted to men, but men with the D. Yeah.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Right.

[Donald]

Like, and I'm not. There's. Again, there's no judgment against somebody like you saying, like, oh, right. The other way. I'm just Saying like, well, also it's

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

so funny because you are a woman and I'm a man.

[Donald]

But we are.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

But when people say like feminine and masculine energy, I have more feminine energy and you have more masculine energy and like, like, I know that, that you feel this way too, but for me to enjoy any type of sexual experience, I really needs to be emotionally a thousand connected. Yeah.

[Donald]

Yes. Other. Otherwise I'd be out there hoeing around. Honey, I would. But yeah, unfortunately I need to know the person and actually like, like them and enjoy them. This is not like hate sex.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. We have to enjoy coffee too.

[Donald]

Yeah. Yeah. I can't be like, oh my God. Like those were, those were saved for your 20s when you're like, oh yeah, you're hot, but I hate you.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah. See, I always guys pretended, even when I was hoeing around, I was like, this could be the love of my life. You never know. But it all worked out.

[Donald]

But you found him eventually. But yeah, no, I have to. I'm with you. You gotta be. I have to be attracted. Know the person, have that connection.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yes.

[Donald]

But at the end of the day,

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

I still want the D. Yeah, we'll get it, girl.

[Donald]

So just saying.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Anyway, one of these days.

[Donald]

Oh man.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

At the end of someday. Anyway, so guys, on that note, hit us with your Phone a Friend questions. It really helps. I will say if you email us, put in the subject line phone a friend. Because some. We've missed a few in the past because of that. And the. You can reach out to us at everything's perfect podcast gmail.com.

[Donald]

you can also find us on Instagram at Everything's Perfect Official.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

That's right.

[Donald]

I was like, what am I saying? Words. Everything's Perfect Official.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

And every Tuesday we have new episodes launching.

[Donald]

So yeah, guys, we haven't missed a week for a year. Isn't that why we have been right here with you guys every Tuesday for a year? I'm proud of us because through travel and life throwing us some wacky curveballs.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Yeah, kept it rolling.

[Donald]

We kept it rolling and we're going to keep it rolling some more.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

That's right. So hit us up and we'll see you guys next week.

[Donald]

Tuesday. Bye.

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[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Donald]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[SpinQuest Host]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Donald]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Everything's Perfect Host (likely Autumn)]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Donald]

Liberty.