Everything’s Perfect…Except the Netflix Doc That Hits Too Close to Home (Literally)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everything’s Perfect…Except the Netflix Doc That Hits Too Close to Home (Literally)

Podcast: Everything's Perfect
Hosts: Autumn Calabrese & Donald Stamper
Episode Date: September 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode is an urgent weekend recording prompted by a shocking Netflix documentary titled "Unknown Number," which deeply affected both hosts. Autumn and Donald dive into a raw, detailed, and unfiltered analysis of the documentary—a true-crime story set in a small Michigan town, where a high school girl and her boyfriend are relentlessly cyberbullied by an anonymous texter. The twist? The culprit is someone devastatingly close.

The hosts unpack the documentary, reflect on themes like betrayal, mental health, social media harassment, and the way modern technology enables both connection and cruelty. Candid, empathetic, and real, their conversation is full of memorable quotes, personal reflections, emotional hot takes, and relevant cultural commentary.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Initial Reactions & Spoiler Warning

• [00:41] The hosts urgently recorded on a weekend, moved by the documentary’s impact.
• [01:19] Spoiler alert is issued, as the episode contains detailed plot revelations.

2. Story Outline: The Documentary’s Plot

• [02:36] A 14-year-old girl (“Low”/Lauren) and her boyfriend (“Evan,” name uncertain) start receiving cruel, anonymous texts in a tiny Michigan town.
• [03:10] The harassment escalates from mean party exclusion messages to vicious, sexually explicit, and violent threats, targeting both teens daily, sometimes up to 50 texts a day.
• [04:42] After an initial pause of nine months, the harassment resumes stronger; this shocks both teens and adults involved in the case.

3. Escalation & Investigation

• [06:03] Texts evolve into dangerous territory ("kill yourself," body-shaming, real-time references to the girl's outfit and daily occurrences), suggesting the perpetrator is watching closely.
• [07:30] Police, school officials, and eventually the FBI get involved, struggling to trace the anonymized messages.
• [09:47] Various suspects are falsely accused: a local "mean girl," Evan’s cousin—both endure months of scrutiny.
• [10:44] The use of number-blocking apps makes tracing the harassment very difficult.

4. The Shocking Reveal

• [11:23] The FBI uncovers the perpetrator: Lauren’s own mother.
• [12:00] The hosts are floored ("I was on the edge of my [seat]… there’s no way" – Donald, [12:22]).
• [13:00] Police confrontation and the mother's nonchalant response ("My phone number?" – Autumn, [13:00]); emotional fallout for Lauren and her father.

Quote:
"The messages that were saying, my his dick. Like, you're a nasty, anorexic skank. Nobody will want you, flower. It was her fucking mother."
— Autumn ([13:34])

5. Aftermath & Psychological Fallout

• [14:12] Lauren still expresses missing her mom and wanting a relationship ("I just don’t think about it" – [14:49]), despite the trauma endured.
• [16:51] The hosts grapple with the girl’s forgiving response, speculating about the need for therapy and disassociation as a coping mechanism.

Quote:
“When you find out that your mother has been texting you 50 plus times a day… telling you to kill yourself repeatedly… and you have no reaction and then three years later your thought is, I still want to have a relationship… that girl needs therapy.”
— Autumn ([16:51])

6. Judgment & Empathy for the Family

• [21:32] Sympathy for the father, who courageously insisted Lauren leave the home for her safety during the police intervention.
• [22:14] The difficulty of realizing, in retrospect, the mother’s years-long deception.
• [23:40] Discussion of empathy towards Lauren’s response, and speculation as to why Evan never reconciled with her.

7. Motives, Mental Health, and Responsibility

• [18:35] The mother’s excuse references her own past sexual assault, which the hosts feel cannot justify or explain away her actions.
• [19:38] The hosts are critical of the mother's inability to meaningfully "own" what she did or show genuine remorse.
• [33:05] Desire to see more contrition and self-reflection from the mother on camera.
• [36:13] Discussion dives into potential motives: Munchausen by proxy, twisted maternal love, hatred; also, the mother’s obsession with her daughter’s boyfriend.

8. Social Media, Harassment, and Culture

• [37:22] Autumn reflects on the parallels between the doc and real-life harassment happening on social media DMs every day.
• [38:39] They discuss experiences with anonymous, relentless hate on social platforms.
• [39:53] The conversation broadens into the nature of online bullying, cyberstalking, and the need for better accountability, wondering: why do we tolerate harassment in DMs but treat anonymous texts as criminal?

Quote:
"Why do we have this—okay, if you're texting me, it's harassment, but on social media, we let people get away with bullying?"
— Autumn ([39:53])

• [43:03] Autumn and Donald discuss what policy or technological changes could reduce this kind of abuse (mandatory identification, banning repeat offenders).

9. Societal Change and Historical Context

• [50:41] Broader reflection: Was society always this mean? Did technology simply enable broader reach for bullies? Comparison to historic racism, changes in acceptable public behavior, and how hate has migrated from the open to the shadows of the internet.

10. Closing Thoughts and Lighter Moments

• [56:30] Autumn still can’t believe the story was real and not fiction.
• [57:46] Relatable, lighter moments: financial anxiety, lottery dreams, and what they’d do with a lottery windfall.
• [64:50] Halloween costume segment tease and call for listener suggestions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [11:23] Donald: "When they said it was her mom? That was wild. Like, when the documentary went there, I was like, no way."
• [16:51] Autumn: "When you find out your mother has been texting you 50-plus times a day... telling you to kill yourself... and you have no reaction... that girl needs therapy."
• [21:47] Donald: "I'm usually always on the woman's side for some reason... there was no being on this woman's side."
• [29:15] Donald: "Let's just say mental health institutions."
• [33:05] Autumn: “She should have felt like she didn’t own it.”
• [39:53] Autumn: "Why do we have this—okay, if you're texting me, it's harassment, but on social media, we let people get away with bullying?"
• [44:04] Autumn: "You want to hate me, that’s fine. Say it to me once… but when you say it every day— isn’t that harassment?"
• [47:12] Donald: “There needs to be voices who speak in opposition of that negativity.”
• [54:53] Autumn: "Why does there need to be an app where you can hide your phone number? That’s technology being used for evil."
• [56:42] Autumn: "I had to keep reminding myself it was real, that it really happened, that it wasn't just a movie."

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Important Timestamps

• [01:49] — Introduction of the documentary and initial reactions
• [06:42] — Community and institutional responses, efforts to trace the messages
• [11:23] — Reveal: The perpetrator is the mother
• [13:34] — Police confront the mother and daughter's devastation
• [14:12–17:29] — Aftermath: Lauren’s psychological response and need for therapy
• [18:35] — Mother’s attempted rationalization and hosts’ skepticism
• [33:31] — Discussion about true remorse and accountability
• [37:22–43:17] — Social media harassment discussion and policy questions
• [50:41–54:53] — Societal and historical context for cruelty and racism
• [56:30] — Final reflections on the real-life impact and disbelief
• [57:46–64:28] — Lighthearted turn: Lottery hypotheticals and Halloween costume plans

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Tone and Style

The episode is candid, irreverent, and emotional, balancing horrors of the documentary with empathy and humor. The hosts’ friendship and rapport shine throughout, giving listeners laughter and real talk in the face of disturbing subject matter.

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Listener Engagement

• Listeners are encouraged to email or DM costume ideas for October episodes.
• Requests for feedback and listener thoughts on the documentary’s story and the broader issues discussed.

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Contact:

• Email: everythingsperfectpodcastmail.com
• Instagram: everythingsperfectofficial

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For listeners who haven’t watched "Unknown Number," this episode provides a shocking but thorough tour through the story’s twists, its emotional impact, and the many cultural, psychological, and technological issues it exposes.

Transcript

[A]

I am so freaking excited for this conversation. I cannot even tell you.

[B]

Honestly, When I get those letters from the bank, I don't look immediate shred. Like, whatever's in there, I'm not interested. I'm sure you're not sending me a bunch of money.

[A]

That's none of my business. No, I'm the one who's over here literally, like, on top of everything, and I still have shit go wrong. And I'm like, how I know everything.

[B]

Once a year, I look at my finances and then I try not to look again.

[A]

And then you're like, oh, survived another one.

[B]

When I notice.

[A]

Hi.

[B]

Happy Saturday. Yeah, we had to pull up recording on the weekend.

[A]

We had to pull an emergency record session.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Because, oh, my gosh, that documentary was insane.

[B]

That's right. That's right. If you are listening, we usually record on Wednesdays. Is a Saturday. And we decided we have to have an episode today because we just watched the special on Netflix. Unknown number.

[A]

Unknown number.

[B]

Yeah. And there's like a subtitle like a high school something something. But it's in the top 10 on Netflix. And so if you haven't seen it yet, I don't know where you've been, but there are going to be spoiler alerts galore.

[A]

So if you haven't seen it yet and you don't you want to see.

[B]

What happens, go watch it and come back.

[A]

Yes. Because we're about to talk about all the things.

[B]

Yeah. So it was crazy. The thing is, I am a sucker for Netflix documentaries. The minute I see that there's a new. Especially if it's in the top 10, I'm like, this is gonna be good. Yeah, I'm ready for it. So I was watching this, and the whole time, like you, I really didn't know where it was gonna go. And you know what I loved about the documentary? How they kept introducing new characters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I was like, ooh. The plot kept sickening.

[A]

Yes. So. Because I had already. I had been wanting to watch it, but I was a little hesitant because I wasn't sure if there was going to be murder or suicide.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, oh, I just don't want to watch this late at night. So I was glad that you told me there was nothing like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then I was like, okay, now I can watch. I am a. I am like mystery solver girl. I really like to. And I'm actually pretty decent. Like, a lot of times I can figure it out before they ever give it away in the. In a Show or in a movie. So from the beginning, I was like, okay, who is it? Because it's not every. Everybody keeps saying it's not who you expect. And I will say that for a minute, I was like, is it gonna be the dad? Like, for a minute, I thought maybe it would be the dad of the girl.

[B]

I wonder why you thought that. So, but. So what happened? Is this girl in. At a high school, I think she was like a freshman or something.

[A]

Young, 14.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So whether she was somewhere around eighth to ninth, I think, beginning of high school grade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in a place in Michigan.

[A]

Small town in Michigan.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, the Entire kindergarten through 12th grade is at one school. That's how small the town is.

[B]

Oh, I didn't. I missed that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, super small town. She starts getting these texts from this unknown number. And she has a boyfriend.

[A]

And it's her and her boyfriend getting a text from an unknown.

[B]

Is his name Evan? I'm the worst with names, but her boyfriend, I think it is. I don't remember now. But anyways, they start getting these texts, and they start really mean, but get much worse as they go. But they don't know who the number is. And so the parents of the boyfriend and the girlfriend sort of come together eventually when the kids tell them.

[A]

Right. Well, the parents were already all friends, so the boy and the girl. Was her name Lola, I think. Or not Lola?

[B]

Lauren, I think it was Lauren.

[A]

It's Lauren. I'm getting Lola from a different show. I'm watching it. But they call her Low. Anyway, so we'll say Low, and we're gonna assume the kid's name is Evan. Today, we're doing great.

[B]

The names aren't what matter.

[A]

The names are not what matter. But let's call them Low in Heaven for discussion sake. They're. They. You know, they're young. They're 14. They had known each other for a long time. The parents knew each other. The parents were friends. They all would hang out. They start getting these text messages. So it's the two of them and this unknown number. And it was like, at first they were going to this Halloween party. The girl was not invited, but the boy was. Evan was. So he's like, well, you're coming. You're my girlfriend. And it was about, like. Wasn't it, like, telling her, like, nobody wants you there kind of thing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she gets these texts. They get these text messages a few times. And then after the Halloween party, they stop for, like, nine months.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So you're like, okay, great. It's done. Like, they think it's done, it's over, then it picks back up. And when it picks back up, it picks back up at like an insane speed. They were saying like 50, 50 a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, those first couple were mean. Like, nobody wants you at the party. He's gonna break up with you. He doesn't like you. He likes me, but we don't know who this me is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then when they picked back up.

[B]

They were like, he doesn't want your nasty pussy. Like, like very vulgar.

[A]

So vulgar.

[B]

Things that you would like. I don't really. I don't talk like that to my adult friends. That I talk nasty.

[A]

Literally. I like watching. And I was like, again, I'm like, thank God I'm not around.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Because you guys. Okay, I'm just going to say, like, as much as I don't want to say the things, because it's so vulgar, I'm going to say the things. It was literally like one of the texts and I'm saying it for Conte because it's mind blowing. Who is sending the text? But one of them was like, my pussy. His fingers creaming. Like, oh, my God. Okay. Like, just like.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, I can't believe.

[A]

I just.

[B]

It's crazy, but it's crazy. This 13, 14 year old and her boyfriend are getting these texts, right?

[A]

Like, these are like, he doesn't want you. He wants blow jobs. Like, he wants me. So there. There was a bunch like that. And then they just kept getting worse. They just kept getting more vicious to the point where then it started, they. The message started saying to the girl, kill yourself. You're worthless. He'll never want you. Your anorexic ass is gross. Like, learn how to dress. And you that. So the text messages again, this is where it was so weird because it was like the person was obviously watching them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they were making comments about, like, what her outfit was at school that day. How many points were scored in a basketball game that she played in that day. So you're like, okay, who was at school looking? And they were doing all those things, like, right? Because then. Yes. So the parents get involved. Both the boy's parents and the girl's parents get involved. The principal gets involved, the superintendent gets involved. They're watching cameras in the school. It's crazy that they could not figure out who it was because they were using a phone number. Like a blocking software.

[B]

Yeah. The damn Internet.

[A]

So.

[B]

And so the kids end up breaking up.

[A]

Kids end up breaking up the police get involved, huh? The FBI gets involved, right?

[B]

I mean because even after they break up, like you think it would stop. But she kept getting messages that ended up telling her to kill herself. Like before you should kill yourself before we do it for you. Things like that.

[A]

Right. So physical harm being threatened to her.

[B]

And Evan, or I think we think his name's Heaven went to, was starting to see another girl from a different.

[A]

School, like 45 minutes away. And then that girl's mom started getting messages like what? Yeah, like when I heard that I was like okay, wait, they are really just trying to ruin these two kids lives. Like it was crazy because it's one.

[B]

Thing I was like, you know, kids are really mean sometimes. I know. And it, there's like a lot of like psychological issues I think in kids. Like their brains aren't even finished being developed so it's acting out. But sometimes kids say some really mean shit and don't understand the weight of it. So I was like, the whole time I was like, who is it? It's got to be one of these, one of her.

[A]

Mean girl.

[B]

Mean like some friends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was wild and it was kind of sad because like remember the girl who was Evan's cousin who keeps to him.

[A]

So a lot of people got blamed because it went on for almost two years. Can you imagine every for almost two years you're getting 50 plus text messages a day that are just this mean. And it does lead to some questions of like. Like at one point they had the police and the superintendent had recommended that they change the kids phone numbers. The parents decided not to do that. At a certain point I would have, I just take like your 14 year old at that point doesn't need a phone.

[B]

Right. If that like that is so damaging.

[A]

Right. And like then they started, the person started sending photos and so like cause like to mess with him. So like the one girl was being accused first who had kind of been like a mean girl on and off or sort of like over the years other people had complained about her. And at one point the unknown number sends a photo of the like the mean girl implying that it was her. But it was like, well why would you send a photo of yourself? So obviously that's not what it was.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But then when the photo was taken, another photo got sent to low and Evan and it was a photo of Evan's Christmas present that he got at Lowe's house that year. So it was like who was there to take the photo?

[B]

Like yeah, because it was like in.

[A]

A specific, specific place like that, like during house. So that's why they ended up blaming. They started to blame his cousin. They thought maybe it was her being jealous because she was sort of quiet. So then you got to go. Okay. Not only are you. Is this girl low dealing with it. This kid Evan's dealing with it. The mean girl was getting blamed, interviewed by police for months and months and months, and she kept saying, it's not me. It's not me. Then the cousin starts getting blamed. It's not me, it's not me. The parents are losing their minds because they're trying to figure out, like, why can't we help our kids?

[B]

Mm. And so he gets all these warrants to search the telephone records, I guess.

[A]

So the. So finally, the police handed it off to the FBI because they literally couldn't crack it. The FBI gets warrants to subpoena phone records because they have to. They have to track the software that's blocking the phone number.

[B]

Right. And there were, like, something about all these, like, numbers, but then they subpoenaed maybe the app, and somehow they, like, went through this trail and the number that they found.

[A]

I mean, I still.

[B]

When they said it was her mom.

[A]

It was Lowe's mom.

[B]

Like, the girl that they were telling to. The messages were saying, kill yourself before we do it for you.

[A]

The messages that were saying, my his dick. Like, you're a nasty, anorexic skank. Nobody will want you flower. It was her fucking mother.

[B]

God. Like, when that. When the. When the documentary went there, I was like, no way. And they even showed the other mom because she said, I love that all these people were in the documentary. You got to really hear from everybody.

[A]

That Lo's mom was in the documentary.

[B]

I know. That's something.

[A]

I wanted Reese to do it. Well, this woman is batshit crazy, so pardon my language, but literally, she is.

[B]

No, she's off her wild. When I was watching the. Because it had the body cam footage of when the police came and confronted her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was on the edge of my.

[A]

I was like, there's no way it's going to be that somebody would have taken her phone.

[B]

I thought maybe Low was doing it for.

[A]

For, like, attention.

[B]

I mean, I didn't want to believe that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you never would think someone's mom would do that. But she also did a lot of other stuff. Like, I felt really bad for their family because she lied about having a job for more than six months.

[A]

Right. Well, you don't find that out until the very. That she had been lying about having two jobs and they lost their home. Like three times they had to move.

[B]

Or four times they put their stuff in storage and she lied about paying the storage unit. So everything.

[A]

This poor dad and this poor little girl. But when they confront the mom, the police come and they're like, it's your phone number. And she just sits there with that fudgeing look on her face. Like, my phone number. Literally, that's how she said it by. I was like, I can't. And then they bring Low into the room to tell her, we know who it is. It's your mom. And she's. She just sits there. Yeah. And like, her mom's like hugging on her.

[B]

And I was like, that had to be.

[A]

Oh, it had to be so traumatic.

[B]

That had to be an out. Out of body experience. Like, how can you take in that information? This woman who's been like, literally helping you through it all, trying to encourage you, telling her, I'm sure, don't let that get you down. Don't listen to them, baby. I'm so sorry that's happening. Give me a hug. That like. And for her, for low in that moment, to find out that her mom was the one doing it the whole time, she had to just, like, there had to be. There had to be a solid 24 hours of, like, no feeling.

[A]

But at the end of the documentary, she's still saying that she misses her mom. And she. Because they go to. They go to court, the mom gets sentenced to jail for like a year. She is not allowed to see Low while she's in jail. That's a stipulation of the court that says that. It's not even like, her dad saying it. The court is like, absolutely not. Thank God. I mean, but like, she still wants to have a relationship with her mom. And she's like, I just don't think about it. I'm like, somebody put this poor child in therapy. She. That is not a. That's not. That is not a healthy response.

[B]

That's a good question. I wonder if she. Well, the thing is.

[A]

Okay, I mean, we have so many places to go.

[B]

I was thinking about when, when, when it all came out. I finished. I'm thinking about it. I'm like, okay. I think. I can't imagine. I have an amazing mom. Like, I. Like, my mom is the closest person in my family. So I really. I don't have the ability. Because when I think of loving a mom, I think about the mom I have and I think about, like, the bond that should Be between a mother and their child. But that doesn't mean my mom's always been perfect. But so part of me is like, okay, I get this, this little girl being like that was crazy. But she has a lifelong of memories that she probably doesn't want to let go.

[A]

She's not that little. She's. By the time the documentary, she's got to be at least 17 now because this ended. I think she got sentenced and she got sentenced last year, I think 20, 24. Like this was going on.

[B]

I think she actually got. Or did she get out in 2024?

[A]

So they just did the documentary, all these interviews. She's got to be.

[B]

No, she's 17 or 18. She's grad school.

[A]

Right. And okay, so 14 and 15 is when her mom was essentially stalking, harassing her. So yes, obviously she has her first 14 years of happy memories and then she's got 14 and 50 with her mom, quote, unquote, helping her. But when you find out that your mother has been texting you 50 plus times a day, that your mother is the reason you broke up with your first love because you end up, your mother is telling you to kill yourself repeatedly. Your mother is calling you an anorexic skank, that you're work, you're not worth the air that you're breathing. Your mother is saying things like my.

[B]

Things that make grown men blush, I think.

[A]

Yeah, like literally that are like, oh, oh my God, wow, I need a drink or something sick cigarette, something. Literally, you find out your mom is the one. I. And you have no reaction and then three years later your thought is, I still want to have a relationship and I'm just not going to think with her or I'm just not going to think about the fact that it was her. That girl needs therapy.

[B]

Yeah, I do agree.

[A]

Like she, I mean, I mean, maybe.

[B]

She'S in therapy, maybe, you know, but. But definitely I felt that the mom. Although I do admire and appreciate because a lot of these documentaries, the quote, villain won't go on.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Won't even release the statement.

[A]

That's because she's batshit crazy and she doesn't think she did anything wrong.

[B]

Well, she does think she did it wrong, but it didn't feel to me like she held the gravity of what she did. Like, I felt like she was like, I shouldn't have done it. It was just something I couldn't stop. First of all, I do think she's lying to herself. I think she started much sooner than she said.

[A]

I think she was the one from the beginning.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

And I also think that she is so. So she said. And they just touched on. And I want to be very sensitive to this because of the touchy subject, maybe give a bit of a trigger warning. But she said that she was sexually assaulted when she was 17, and so she never. I think the 17 part, I could be wrong.

[A]

That's what she said.

[B]

And she didn't recall, like. But it felt to me like that doesn't. That is tragic, period. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about that. And. And I am, like, very much feel for her in that, but don't use that as a way to get sympathy when you did that to your child. I, like, I just feel like that's a separate conversation. Like, the. The truth is, you put your child through psychological torture. You caused her to be separated from her friends, her multiple children.

[A]

Multiple children after psychological torture for two years.

[B]

And. Yeah, and she. She. Her response did feel like, well, I. It wasn't right, but nobody's been perfect. That's kind of what it felt to me. And I don't like that. Like, girl, you need to be like, it was diabolical. Like, in. In the worst way. I can't imagine. I was in a very dark place. I am. She used to be in the therapy, probably on medication, like I was gonna say.

[A]

I actually think that mom, even watching the interview at the end, she sort of laughed about it, and she's like, I know people. I'm just a headline, but they don't know my whole story. And then she went on to say how she had been sexually assaulted at 17. And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. Like, again, like you said, that is tragic that that happened. I'm a mom, so I'm going to speak from a mom's point of view. I'm sorry. It is your responsibility as the adult to go deal with that before you. If you're going to turn psycho on your kid, then you should have dealt with that emotional trauma before you birth the child. And the second you started going down some crazy road. I'm sorry. The mom was obsess with the boyfriend. That's really what it comes out and down to. She had some weird crush on Evan. Because then at the end, it starts to come out that she was doing weird things, like cutting his steak for him. And, like, always was, like, kind of babying him more than it should. And then you go, oh, wait a minute. Evan started dating the girl from the other school, 45 minutes away. And Lo's mom finds that girl's mom's phone number and starts sending crazy to that mom so that he has to then break up with her. So you're trying to make sure this kid doesn't get to date anybody because you have some weird crush on him. You drove a wedge between him and your daughter, or. Yeah, him and your daughter for so long that they ended up breaking up, even though that, you know, they were, like, little first loves and so cute. And who. Who's to say whether or not they would have stayed together or not? But they. It's a small town. You just never know. And so she had some weird crush on the kid. There is no anything. There's. There is to me. There's just no excuse.

[B]

There's absolutely no excuse. There's no ex, like.

[A]

And the poor dad. I will say I was actually very impressed by the dad. My Lowe's dad.

[B]

Me too. And I'm usually always on the woman's side for some reason, like, there was.

[A]

No being on this woman's side.

[B]

And he was like, you guys need to take her away. She's not safe here. I was like, good for him. I can't imagine what he was feeling. Yeah, right.

[A]

She said, you need to go while they are here, you need to go, because when they leave, I am not gonna be okay. And I think one that was very smart because obviously Low was at the house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, yeah, I mean, listen, I want to blame that dad for anything at that point.

[B]

I know. I mean, like, he had been through.

[A]

So much, and also, I'm sorry, but as the dad now, you have to start thinking about all those text messages you've been reading, because every night, they would take the phone and they would read the text messages after the kids went to bed to try to decipher and who might it be, and blah, blah. So, you know all those nasty text messages that were being sent to your daughter? Dirty, dirty text messages on top of the kill yourself text messages.

[B]

Huh. And then, you know, that's who it's coming from.

[A]

It's your wife doing it to your daughter.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

I. I don't even know how now to this day, this dad has not. I'm like, good. Like I said, I'm. I'm impressed by him because I don't. I would. I would need to not know where that person lived.

[B]

Yeah. The mom is very lucky because to have. For her daughter not to hate her, because I feel like I'm a very forgiving person. And I feel like even something terrible, I would probably still have some relationship with my mom if. If I was in that situation, but I would not be like. I mean, she literally was like. She said something at the end like, she's my favorite person. She. I love her more than anyone, or something like that. And it was sort of like, yeah, that happened, but. And it's like, not.

[A]

But I don't think she's wrapped her brain around the fact that it was like. You know what I'm saying? It almost feels like she's disassociated. Like she has. Yes, I was gonna say that it almost feels like she's split a little bit like that. And I'm not. We're not therapists, so we can't obviously say that for real, But I'm like, there's no anger whatsoever. There's no. I can't believe. There's no. My mom needs. Listen, you're a much more forgiving person than I am because.

[B]

Well, we knew that already, obviously.

[A]

Cuz ain't no way.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

I be like, give me that woman's phone number, because I'm about to blow my phone up for two years with 50 text messages telling her what, to see you next Tuesday. She is.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And when she changes that number, I'm gonna find that number.

[B]

I'm gonna.

[A]

I'm gonna pigeon send you like, you are about to get it back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I would be on one.

[B]

Well, it's just if she wasn't caught, it sort of makes you wonder how long would it have gone on, Right? She was. It was. She was out of control.

[A]

Out of control. And it was like. Because she wasn't actually working, she was lying and saying she was working. The dad would leave for work low, would go to school, and she would go into her office at the house, and she was the one sending all these photos. So she was taking photos from Lowe's Instagram and Evan's Instagram, and she was putting, like, barf faces over low and slut and then texting them to her. I just can't. I cannot. I cannot fathom. I'm just like, what world? I have dropped the F bomb so many times in this episode already. I cannot wrap my head around in what world and we live in that the mother would do this. The.

[B]

Because sometimes you hear about moms doing something in a fit of. Or parents doing something in a fit of rage, where you're like, I would never do that. Or maybe exhaustion. Like, you know, right? Like when someone makes a tragic mistake. And sometimes people judge, but you're like, okay, but. But this is like a thought out, planned. Yeah, but like, scheme that she had.

[A]

Going on, you had to go through. You had to download the software to block your phone number. You had to put them on the group chat. You had to start sending the messages. You had to be aware, like, of what your daughter's wearing that day. She was the one coaching. The mom was coaching the basketball team, which is why she knew how many points the mean girl scored.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then tried to blame it. Like, tried to direct it. The attention towards the mean girl.

[B]

Like, this was by. The mean girl is. We're just using as her.

[A]

That's kind of how they were referencing her. That I don't. I should have taken notes on the names, but I was literally so in it that I was like, who is doing this? Like, I needed to know. I just never expected it to be the mom like me either.

[B]

Even when she got caught, I was like, there's going to be another. There's no way.

[A]

Do you want to know what made me the most sad, though? Well, not the most sad, but I mean, it really does make me so sad for that girl that her mom turned out to be that way, but that. Because it was her mom. Like, first of all, even though the. Even though Low had nothing to do with it, obviously, other than it was her mom torturing her. Like, everybody now knows it was your mom doing that to you and to Evan. Her and Evan don't talk at all.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And it sounded like he blamed Low. And I was like, well, how can you blame. She didn't know. If anything you would. You would think you would feel more bad for her. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe it was your mom doing this to us. Like, you would think that almost. Maybe they would have, like, ended up talking and being like, this is crazy. I can't believe my mom did this. I'm sorry. Like, even if they're not going to date again, you would think, but, like, they're still in the same school, same small town.

[B]

I feel like that could still happen.

[A]

He said he doesn't think he'll ever talk to her again. He said it at the end of the documentary.

[B]

I don't remember him.

[A]

Which means it's already been several years and they haven't talked.

[B]

Yeah. But I do think, though, he. They're still like 18 and 19 or something like that. You know, if their paths cross, maybe a couple more years from now, they'll live a little more life and Their feelings will change. And again, not that they would be together, but maybe they will just be able to have an adult conversation about, like, can you believe that happened to us? And I. And, you know, as being able to, in hindsight, as an adult with maturity, look back and say, you know, obviously we were kids. We couldn't be there for each other. But do you know?

[A]

I don't know. But the only thing I was thinking was maybe, though the fact that she is. Is so forgiving to her mom.

[B]

Good point.

[A]

That maybe he's have. Like. Maybe he's like, if you're that forgiving over this, like. Like, this is something that stays with them for the rest of their lives. This is not like a little blip.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This was two years. It was a defining thing. Oh, my God.

[B]

Takes a special con. I'd like talk about we use the word disassociating earlier. I feel like the mom must have been doing that, too. I mean, she couldn't have been the same person in her brain when she was holding her daughter. And yes, I was.

[A]

When we were saying it, I was gonna say she needs to be in a. I don't want to use the. I don't want to use a politically incorrect word. I don't know what. What's correct to say, because I. I don't want to say half.

[B]

Let's just say mental health institutions.

[A]

Okay. Yes. I was like. I was gonna say like a mental institution, but that sounds very. Like. I'm not saying it even in this.

[B]

Like, you're not saying insane asylum. I think that's the. But like, American Horror Stories. Locked up.

[A]

No, but she. But she needs.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Serious, real help. And I'm kind of surprised that the court didn't order that as a part of her getting out. Maybe they did. I don't know, but it seems like they would have. You know what bugged me, though? There was one part that really bugged me about the people that were creating the documentary. At one point, towards the end, when the mom was, like, talking about her side of the story, whoever was interviewing her, you never really heard anybody asking them the questions. Right. From the documentary side, you just were hearing their responses. But at one point, you hear a female ask the mom a question, and she. It was almost like a leading the way.

[B]

Oh, I know what you're gonna go where you're going.

[A]

Yeah. Where she was like, well, do you think.

[B]

Do you think you were talking to yourself?

[A]

You were talking to yourself because you're still. And she. And then the mom was like, well, yes, because I wasn't eating enough. I was really skinny.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And I was like, no, it's funny.

[B]

You picked up on that she was.

[A]

Talking to her daughter.

[B]

Because in that moment, I was like, it looks to me like in real time. She latched on to that as an added excuse. Like, yeah, I was struggling so much with those feelings that I said it to myself. And the fact is, everybody struggles. Life is a lot, like, getting through day to day, See, getting. Going through puberty, going through school. However you do it, be whatever you're doing, being in a marriage, trying to find work, Everything everybody does is a lot that doesn't.

[A]

And.

[B]

And terrible things happen at different levels to everybody.

[A]

You don't get a pass.

[B]

You don't get to torture children. Psychological torture.

[A]

Psychological warfare on your kid. Like, you don't get a pass.

[B]

Okay, so.

[A]

So, okay, go ahead, because I was gonna ask you something. Go ahead.

[B]

Well, I was gonna ask you because the fact is, it happened. Like, let's play God. That'll be fun.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We run everything. What. Is there a path of redemption for her in your mind?

[A]

Like, for the mom?

[B]

Like, yeah, like, you know, not. Does she atone for it? But, like, not. If.

[A]

When you say redemption, you mean to be, like, back in her daughter's life, to be forgiven by everybody that she did wrong? Like, what do you mean by that?

[B]

I just mean, like, best case scenario, she did that. And so if you're. If your job as a God figure was to say, these are the steps you need to take to not make it right. Because you can't make something like that right.

[A]

But, like, you can't undo.

[B]

But you also. Someone can't live a life forever hating themselves because of something they've done.

[A]

She doesn't hate herself at all. She seemed fun.

[B]

You're like, that's the next step. Hate yourself for a minute.

[A]

Yeah. Literally. No, like, seriously feel something. Because I'm sorry, but her interview at the end did not. It. All of it seemed fake. Her crying in the courtroom. I'm sorry, if I could take it back. I was like, you're just saying it because you're trying to. Yeah, because you got caught. Like, and then the interview part where she was like, I know I'm just the punchline. But she was doing it with like. I'm like, I don't know how you have, like, a smile on your face. I don't know how you go through this interview with anything other than sobbing out of feelings.

[B]

That's what I would have liked to see.

[A]

And then you saw the emails that she was sending into her daughter when she was in prison. The woman is crazy. She needs help. She needs mental health. For real.

[B]

You're bringing up a lot of details that I forgot.

[A]

Like, in. In pray. It's like, I love you. I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. Like, I'm. Like this. There's some weird latching on.

[B]

It's love bombing. Like.

[A]

Yeah. So there's a reason I'm not God, because I'm not very forgiving. I might be the devil.

[B]

I think what. What I struggled with about that is she just, like, if you do something, you have to just own it. She should have felt like she didn't own it.

[A]

No, she. And like you said, she might very much in her own mind. I'm not a therapist, so I could. I'm not necessarily using the right terms. She could have split personalities, multiple personalities, whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't. Again, I'm not. I'm not making a medical diagnosis, but she has something going on, but she did not take real ownership.

[B]

Yeah, that's how it felt to me.

[A]

I'm like, did you get paid to do the documentary?

[B]

Well, And I'm like, by the way, this is the documentary. Like, lay it on a little bit for us. Make us feel like you really regret it. Because it just didn't, in my opinion. And I am excited for once this airs to hear what everybody else thinks.

[A]

Because I got so many text messages or so many DMs. So many DMs.

[B]

Yeah. Because I really. I felt like, she needs to be giving more. I did this, and it was so wrong. And I needed medical help. And I have. I am working with medical and mental health professionals because I do love my child. And that's not what someone does who love their child. And then it's like, we don't need to hear anything else from you.

[A]

Yeah. Like, not like, I don't want one excuse.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I didn't. I don't want the excuse about what happened to you when you're 17.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That doesn't constitute being allowed to do this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it was like, I didn't deal with it, or I was trying to protect her. I didn't want her to grow up. I was worried because, you know, at one point, the. Maybe it was the superintendent was like, it was almost like Munchausen by proxy, but by, like, I'm gonna emotionally abuse her, so she needs me. And I was like, no, I don't think that's what it was. I Think she had some very weird crush on the boyfriend. I think she really had this. I don't know how you could call it anything other than hatred towards your daughter. You can't say those things.

[B]

See, I don't see it like that. I think. Do you think it might have been a touch of Munchausen or whatever. However you say it, where she. I think as much as maybe. I mean, maybe loved having to be this savior or having to be like, when her daughter loses everything and she's the one there for her, even though she's the reason her daughter is losing everything. I do. I could see that sick twist.

[A]

She was doing it to the kid, Evan, too. And then when Evan got the new girlfriend, she started texting the new girlfriend's mom. It's twisted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It wasn't just about needing her. Her wanting her daughter to need her. It was about manipulating that boy, too.

[B]

I do also think she just got hooked on being that character.

[A]

I don't get. I. I mean, listen, same people are not going to be able to wrap their brain around what she did. That's really. But I have it. I have another question for you that sort of comes up. It's interesting. Let's. I want to talk about social media for a second. Because this mom every day sent harassing text messages to her daughter and this boy for years, to the point where it was considered felony stalking. So my question is, and I don't know legally what it. I don't know, but what is the difference between her doing that and somebody sending harassing DMS every day to somebody? And I'm asking it for a reason.

[B]

Well, I believe it. If someone was sending those. I think it's the same for the most part.

[A]

I wonder if Lilia would be the same is what I'm saying. So. Okay, we know. I don't go into the DMS from people I don't follow very often, but lately I've been going in more because in general, like, there's been some, you know, people, a lot of questions about track Pilates and Belvital and supplements and deals and all the things. And I'm like, listen, I'm just gonna have to brave the crazies that are in there. And there haven't been that many crazies, which is good. But I tapped on this one, and it's this woman named Kathy. I am. I will put this bitch on blast. She'll be in my stories, just so you know, with her full name, so you guys can see it, because it's fucking Crazy. This woman DMS me every single day. Like, hate dms. She purposely watches my story every single day, and then anything she sees in it, she sends some negative, harassing comment about it. So I have her restricted. I don't have her blocked. But here's why. Because I won't give somebody the satisfaction. Because I'm like, I could care less what you think. Like, I really. And I'm like, okay, why are you so obsessed with.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But literally, you are, like, to watch my stories every day and then every day of your life to send a DM to me, hoping that I respond or that I see it. Like, what is the point? What are you trying to get from that? Because obviously I'm never going to respond. I am talking about it here. So if she listens, she probably listens to the podcast, too. So good for her.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Listen, give me all the. Give us all the interaction. I'm here for it.

[B]

You know, one of the differences might be if it, like a stalker being.

[A]

Anonymous, I guess, because, yeah, you don't know who it is, but it's still harassment. That's. That's what I'm saying, though, is why, Like, I'm not. It's. Why do we have this? Okay, if you're texting me, it's harassment, but if you're. But social media, we seem to let people get away with the bullying. You know what I mean? Like, these kids were getting the text messages every day, and everybody was like, we have to figure this out. We can't let somebody talk to. And if they would have known who it was, they obviously would have went and filed whatever, harassment, blah, blah. So it's just interesting to me that people think that because it's social media that you can do that and get away with it.

[B]

Social media has taught me because I've always been the person who, you know, we've talked about how we grew up, and I grew up very religious, but it was. It wasn't like, oh, I was stuck in this uptight religious place. I really believed and I believe. And part of the belief was not bad, even though I'm starting to think it was not true. I believed in the good in everyone and that anyone who was doing something bad was just misguided or went down the wrong path. But my purpose was to ignite that light inside of them and make it outshine the darkness. But social media has shown me that some people are just fucking assholes, like, to the core. Like, I'm like, some of these people out here, like, and it's wild that I. I just look and I'm like, this is a bad person to the core, through and through.

[A]

Like, just bad apple.

[B]

And that's really hard for me because I don't. That's not the world view that I've had. But, baby, that view is changing by the second because of what I'm seeing on social. People show their ass. Like, they are. Are awful. Yeah, they're awful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it doesn't make sense because it's towards oftentimes people they've never met.

[A]

No. Like, literally, I'm like, I don't know this woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, and you don't know me. And like I said, I could care less. And I haven't blocked her for a reason. Because I'm like, no, if. If you want to look, come on. My life is gonna go on the way it's gonna go on.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But, like, it's insane that it's every day. And I only noticed it because I clicked on it recently and I was like, oh, my God. Like, I was able to scroll back and be like, holy. Like some of these people.

[B]

I gotta admire the drive. If I could take some of that drive, but use it for good and not evil. Because I tell you what, I'll see something online that I think is. I'll start typing, and about halfway through my second sentence, I'm like, donald, what the are you doing? Exactly. Why am I. And. But there. There are some.

[A]

But they are committed. But the question becomes, then, okay, they're committed. So when does it go from, oh, well, I know what you like. It could very easily transfer into being more aggressive. It could very easily transfer into somebody finding out where you live. It could very easily transfer into, like, if. If they're willing to do that and make that commitment every day to harass, harass, harass. Then like, that. Mom, at what point did it just spiral where she couldn't stop herself?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because she was. Now, I'm not saying that she was going to follow through and harm her daughter, but she was making physical threats. She was saying, kill yourself before we do it. Like, you don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't know if she was gonna do it or not.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

You know, so it's like. So I just thought, like, I was thinking about that at the end. I was like, at what point is it not okay to do it in a text message, but it is okay to do it in a dm? At what point should you be allowed to call and say, this person is harassing. At what point should somebody lose access to social media? Like, you know, there's all these things in place and on social. And I'm like, man, y' all need to put some fundamental in place. Like, if somebody is harassing like, that they should not be allowed to open an account.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I think you should have to put your social in somehow. Maybe not your social, but something you just have to put in some identifying marker that, like, is only tied to you so that you can't. Like, if you get banned, that's it. You're done. You're banned. Don't be an.

[B]

I feel that. Like, it's. But some things I don't. I like. I think some things. It's such a. It's such a complex conversation because of things like freedom of speech, which obviously we have a podcast. We want to be able to say we are here for all of that. But there are some things I just don't think people should be. That should. You should be allowed to say.

[A]

You could say it, but if you're harassing, there's a difference. Say it once, say it loud. Say it with your chest. Get it off there. Because you can't keep going.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Nobody. I'm not trying to stop you. You want to hate me, that's fine. You hate me one time. Say it. But then you need to move along because. Or unf. Like, you don't need to keep following me or you don't need to keep looking. So you're. By the way, you can go say whatever you want about me on your social media channel. I'm not trying to stop you from saying whatever you want to say. You don't know me. Go ahead, say whatever you want. But what I am saying is when you say it to me repeatedly every single day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't that harassment?

[B]

Well, you know, we had. We have a mutual friend. I don't want to say her name because I want to put her, like, business out there, but who was dealing with in a lot of harassment for a. For a long time. And I remembered being like, what? Trying to give advice in that situation.

[A]

I don't know who you're talking about. Who Text me. I was like, I don't know what you are mouthing. Donald and I are not great at charades, apparently. Or I'm like, I don't know what friend we're talking about, but I. Somebody. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[B]

Did my text come through?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That fast?

[A]

No. Yes. That person to where it was and still is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they have had to. They have had to do some serious digging and finding out who people are. I didn't even tell you like the last. When I talked to her recently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So a thing that was found out. But like these people are going next level.

[B]

That's what I mean. Like. And so. And that's what I mean. What I'm saying when I'm like, social media is showing me, man, that some of these people out here, like just feel beyond. It's sort of like better luck in your next life. And by the way, if multiple lives are a thing and karma dictates you're going to be some. You're going to be.

[A]

I hope you come back. You're a fly. Because I'm a ninja. Killing them with a dish towel right up your tree.

[B]

And just get pissed on all the time by dogs walking by. Just.

[A]

People love trees. They're beautiful.

[B]

Hugging them and stuff. Nell's a big tree hugger. Literally. We go to someone's house with trees. I'm like, oh God. I'm like, babe, can you just wait 20 minutes before you run out there barefoot?

[A]

Can you make sure nobody's around?

[B]

Yeah. Looking like this superstar movie with the. Anyways. Yeah. It's just, it's crazy what people do. I mean, and if someone does that, you should be ashamed of yourself because the harassing the way harassing people and just trying to tear them down. It's one thing if someone is doing something you believe is detrimental and you speak out against that. So if I see, for example, if I see someone post what I would call an anti gay. I'm not like, I'm not messaging them every day telling them that they're trash and ugly and should kill themselves.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I'm gonna. I might comment on their posts and it's not even for them. It's for people who see it. And I just think there needs to be voices who speak in opposition of that negativity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's different. Like standing up for something you believe. And if you believe someone is a part of something, that's not good.

[A]

But it kind of reminds me of that. Like I'm like, was society always this evil? I don't think it was. I think people really have fallen into this toxic place of like they're constantly comparing their life to everybody else's that they see. So some people feel bad about. Maybe they're like. They feel like they're not doing enough or they're not living up to it, whatever. Like, I can understand that pressure that you feel when you're seeing literally the whole world on social media every day, whereas it used to be maybe you only saw the people in your town and like, like, that was the only comparison you were having. But when you've got things like Reddit, where people literally go all day, every day to just be and talk about people they don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to be like, think that they're being, like, all sleuthy and like, ah, I saw da, da, da. And this means da da. And you're like, what? Like, it's. They're. You just like, go to. Could you imagine if you took that time and put it towards anything positive? I don't know, go volunteer somewhere. Go get a job, exercise, get some endorphins going so you feel better about yourself.

[B]

Yeah, go on. And. And instead of talking what you. If you want to be someone who is in it, then maybe you're out there complimenting all these strangers, telling people how you love their content and why, but instead of obsessing over tearing people down, it's sort of like, what do those people do before the Internet? They must have.

[A]

That's what I would say. That's what I was trying to say. It was like, what's the world always that mean? And were they the mean people that were just like. But they were just mean to their people in their area because that's all they had access to? Or has everybody gotten a little, like, lower vibration, a little more evil? Because we're just phone phones in our hand, head in the phone taking in content at, like, obscene rates these days. We're not really living in the reality. Like, you forget that people are people. It's just this person on this screen and you're like, oh, it's just a. It's almost like it's just a picture. It's like, you think it's not real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, no, that's a real person on the other end.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With feelings and family and like, you're commenting. And I always think about that too, because I'm like, Dom doesn't have Instagram right now by choice. Like, he deleted it, but there's been plenty of years where he did, and he would see certain comments that would get posted. And I'm like, God, people just don't think one or one or even two steps into what they're right doing. And then I'm like, and for all those people that are being just so rude to everybody, I'm like, I hope you're Not a parent, which a lot of them are. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on, like, ones and they're. They're parents.

[B]

And I'm like, great, good Christian parents.

[A]

Oh, don't get me started.

[B]

Search every Sunday.

[A]

Yeah. With the little boss and their thing. And I'm like, really?

[B]

Yeah, I know. I feel like. I don't know. That's an interesting thing, because part of me thinks that maybe society has progressed things like race. For example, I found out that Hollywood, the Hollywood sign was originally Hollywood land.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it was a whites only neighborhood. Or neighborhood's not the word I want to use. But basically, like, living area, neighborhood was whites only. And so there's a lot of history about that.

[A]

I never knew that.

[B]

You can learn. Yeah, you should look it up. It's kind of interesting. So maybe before the Internet, all of these terrible people could just live out in the open and move to, like, racist whites only neighborhoods and stuff like that. But now, because of where we live, because of the time we live in, that's not really as acceptable. There's some places that are a little crazy these days, but with that. But people now let out all of their hate online because it's like, before, you could just be out in the. In public and do it, you know, like, that does.

[A]

Listen, that makes sense, because I will be honest. Where I grew up, it was very much like that. The little neighborhood I grew up in, it was a little Italian neighborhood. And there were very, like, clear boundaries of where you could go and where you couldn't. And when you crossed over, you were in another neighborhood where it was not going to be okay that you were there and vice versa. If that neighborhood came into our neighborhood, it was not good. Now, that's not how I was raised.

[B]

Was it one of those. That's Giovanni's territory kind of?

[A]

Yes. No. Literally, the mob was in my neighborhood. One of the little boys I went to school with, his dad was murdered by the mob when he was 2. They thought he snitched. Turns out he didn't, but he was already dead.

[B]

That's not funny. But it is, like, no, that's where.

[A]

No, I. That's. I grew up. Yeah. Oh, listen, there are things that I didn't know, but my dad has told me recently that this podcast is about to take a turn. So we had a pizza place. Like, we had a pizza restaurant, a to go pizza restaurant in our little Italian neighborhood. Okay. Apparently, pizza restaurants were fronts in the 80s for cocaine dealing. Oh, I didn't know this. Ours was not. Let me be very clear. But it was a thing. And we were in this little Italian neighborhood that the mob was very much in. And the FBI apparently was watching my dad's restaurant because they thought it was a front. But because the FBI was watching my dad's restaurant, the mob was watching, and they were starting to think that my dad was a snitch, which he wasn't. But my dad wasn't involved.

[B]

He's like, I'm not a part of this guy.

[A]

He didn't know. But one of the other guys. One of the other guys from the neighborhood apparently, like, vouched for my dad because the mob was talking about doing something about it because they were worried that my dad knew something, was going to say something. Now, it's all crazy, but, like, when my dad told me that a few years ago, I was like, hold up. What are we saying now? We're saying that the FBI is watching on one side, the mob is watching on the other. My dad's just over here making pizzas. He was not the guy that was involved. This was not. But both sides thought maybe he was. And so one side was looking to take him out to make sure that if he did know anything, he didn't say anything.

[B]

That's why.

[A]

That's insane. So, yes, we did. The whole point is, is I grew up in a neighborhood where there was a lot of racism. It absolutely was prevalent.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I. I saw a story about young girl who was. It was when the integration in schools started, and she was like, on her first day of school, walking in, and there were groups of people, including adults, like, white adults, spitting on her. And it's just like, okay. When you hear those stories being from the past, you're like, humanity was so dark. And I think because of the way society has progressed, in many ways that I'm thankful for, they had to, like, that spirit of humanity had to hide in the shadows. And then the Internet gives all of these people opportunity to just say terrible, terrible things to people they don't even know.

[A]

I would say technology in general, because when you look at that mom. And you go, okay, the fact that there was an like, why does there need to be an app where you can hide your phone number?

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that's technology, and that is sort of, you know, like, the rights that, okay, well, I have the right to create whatever, and somebody has the right to use it. They don't have to have their number out there. Okay, well, now. But they're. Now they're Using that. Your technology for evil. A grown ass woman using it to torture two kids. And then it spreads out to all the other kids because that neighborhood or the town was small. And it was like, was it this kid? Was it that k. It goes back to like all of that. Like you were saying it was. It's just. It just gives you so much to think about. I think that's really where it was. Like, by the time that documentary was over, my. I was like, I shouldn't have watched this before bed because I got too many things to process.

[B]

I love the way, you know, what I've thought about a couple times during this episode is the way, you know, different people's brains work differently. And you are so, like, honed in on being like, I don't actually think about, okay, she was going in her office, like, shutting the door. Get like the. The action it takes to do these terrible things. Because I just jumped to, oh, that person's lost. They were in a dark place. I feel so bad. But really, when you think about the steps that someone took, I guess that's the difference between, like accidentally killing someone or premeditation, you know, it's like. But it's wild.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're very like. So I can only imagine you laying in bed like, oh, my God, like, what happened?

[A]

No, literally, I was. I got in bed and I was just like, it was the mom. Like, and then I had to keep reminding myself that it was real, that it really happened, that it wasn't. I didn't just watch a movie.

[B]

Yeah, that.

[A]

That was a real thing. It really happened. She really did those things. I will say I was a little surprised that the dad didn't realize. Like, come on, man, you just lost four different houses and all your stuff in storage. This bitch is not working two jobs.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, do you have no concept of money that you're over here working this hard? She's. Where are her paychecks?

[B]

Well, that's.

[A]

What are you looking at? Like, at what point are you going, Something's not adding up.

[B]

I agree. But you know, how do I say this? There are people in small towns who just like, the way life happens is like, the man, for example, their. Their thing might have been, oh, the man works. And the wife, even though she's. He thought she was working too. I don't know. There's. It surprises me the amount of couples I have met in my life who one person knows nothing about their finances. Like, absolutely nothing. Not a clue. Just swipe.

[A]

Me, like, so much anxiety.

[B]

Oh, My God, I could love that.

[A]

Thought of not knowing about your finances.

[B]

Honestly, when I get those letters from the bank, I don't look immediate shred. Like, whatever's in there, I'm not interested. I'm sure you're not sending me a bunch of money. You're gonna need to send it messenger and have them sing it to me if you want me to hear. I need a quartet with balloons if you want me to get this message. I'm not listening. I'm the worst. Now's like, do you want to go through any of this mail? I'm like, well, this statement is from April, so just throw away. I guarantee you, if it's important, they've tried to get a hold of me. No, no.

[A]

I'm the one who's over here. Literally, like, on top of everything, and I still have go wrong. And I'm like, how? I know everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Besides how to do my taxes.

[B]

I do my own taxes and that's once a year. I look at my finances and then I try not to look again.

[A]

And then you're like, oh, yeah. Survived another one.

[B]

So far, so good.

[A]

Carry the two.

[B]

Yeah. Close one eye. Cross your heart.

[A]

I am going to buy a lottery ticket though, tonight. 1.7 billion, Donald. Oh, come on.

[B]

That would change something.

[A]

I mean, that would change some things.

[B]

I would send mean, harassing text messages to my loved ones every day to win that lottery ticket. Like. Like that's kind of money. Well, I'm not joking. I gotta guarantee everything. Trust me, it's gonna be worth it. I can pay for the best therapy money.

[A]

You're gonna come out the other side.

[B]

You're gonna meet with your therapist on a yacht with the finest treatment.

[A]

Yeah. That's a big one. What would you do? Just tell me, like, one or two things. Yeah, you would do.

[B]

Well, I would. I would immediately become, like, totally unbearable.

[A]

Like, are you going to be the biggest now?

[B]

Yes. Like, sorry. You better hope you're my friend already because you're not going to like me after. I'm just. I'm kidding. Kind of. I would do smart. The first thing I would do is some smart stuff, like find a person, a financial person, not your people.

[A]

I am going to be really good. Pretty.

[B]

Yeah. And I would, like, just figure out, like, where to put money and that 700 million.

[A]

You're not going to spend 700 million. I would buy 7 billion and I think the cash out is, like 700 million.

[B]

Yeah. So I would, would. I would buy a bunch of property first.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I Would obviously, like, the thing is, like, I'd say, oh, I'd pay for all of my loved ones, like mortgages and debts and stuff like that. But then they have to pay taxes on the money you give them. So I don't know. It's get. But I would do that, like, figure out a way where all of my close friends and family. Because 700 million like you, that's enough to be real generous.

[A]

Real generous.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

So, by the way, you can't take it with you.

[B]

So I was talking about, like, different companies I'd buy just so I could boss these around. It's a tax break, you know, I'd say things like that. Even though I had no idea what I was talking about.

[A]

All of a sudden, Donald's poor again.

[B]

No, I would. Exactly. No, I would buy a. I would buy some really cool houses. Would be the first thing I do. What would you do?

[A]

So I would definitely get my beverage and grocery line off the ground.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

With not needing investors just because the entrepreneur in me is always going to be there. So I would. I would get a couple of business ventures going that I would want to get going. Yeah. What I would do is I would give Kent this house to live in and I would buy a different one in this neighborhood. You know, one that's the aesthetic that I want now. And then when that aesthetic is over with, I'll just buy a brand new build that's in five years. No, I would probably get a different house, though. Just lay out wise and stuff. Even though this house is beautiful, I would absolutely take care of loved ones. However, I'm a. I am an asshole like this. I wouldn't want people to know that I won the lottery. I'd be like, oh, my God, Belvital is doing so well. Because then everybody sticks their hand out, man. And I'm not saying I wouldn't. And there was a lot I would want to do with, like, charities and stuff. There's a lot I would want to do with, like, stuff for schools and like, whether it was like, setting up gardens or better lunch programs or like making sure that the kids had like, the nicest gyms or playgrounds, like, depending on if it was high school or like, you know, like stuff that is the first thing to get taken away. Performing arts, things like that. Like, I would want to do a lot of stuff with charity and just being able. Able to, like, but really knowing where it's going, like getting to direct it, where I want it to go and like, really Being able to see. Is it benefiting the people that I want to.

[B]

Yeah, I would do that, too. It's almost like.

[A]

And I would buy my plane.

[B]

I would be.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

Definitely a plane.

[A]

Step one, jet. Lake Kim's with the cream cashmere and the shower. Because we're going places.

[B]

I would have a yacht, too.

[A]

I don't think I want a yacht.

[B]

Really? They're so fun.

[A]

Have you been on yachts?

[B]

Well, I've been on one yacht.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I think it's fun. And I've been on plenty of motorhomes. Like, motorhomes on the water. A little bit fancier.

[A]

I would maybe, if I wanted, rent one for a week or whatever, but I don't think I would. They're. They're so big and so much maintenance.

[B]

Full staff.

[A]

And I'm not somebody who wants to go live on the water. The ocean scares me. So a yacht would not be on my list, but a jet maybe do.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean. Oh, God, this is fun. I could go on and on about. Yeah, that should be an episode.

[A]

What?

[B]

Like what we do with our lottery? Because I could talk about this all day. I have some real problem.

[A]

Pull out a notebook.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Let's put it out into the universe. I hope I win.

[B]

What?

[A]

I hope I win.

[B]

I hope you do, too.

[A]

Thanks. I hope you do.

[B]

If I win, I'll also. I'll be the sole investor in.

[A]

Okay, you're perfect.

[B]

Your line.

[A]

And if I win, I will be the sole investor in whatever.

[B]

All the. I come up with.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

I'll find something.

[A]

Might not be a good investment, guys, but I'm here for it.

[B]

Guarantee fun.

[A]

Well, I do kind of want to hear. I mean, I've. I've seen a lot of dms, and a lot of people are like, we need a podcast. It's crazy. So I'm glad that we talked about it. We have to get this one up quick, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we're gonna have to shoot it over to our editor. But, you know, we would love to hear what you guys thought if you've watched it or if you just listen to us, because maybe you don't want to watch it, but. Everythingsperfectpodcastmail.com let us know. Did we miss anything? Did we miss anything? I think that's a good question with it, too.

[B]

Like, that's what I was gonna say. If there's a point that you feel we didn't.

[A]

Yeah. I'm curious.

[B]

That is something that's in your mind. I'd love to hear that. Because it's even just talking about it with you. It's interesting to hear another perspective. You can also DM us on Instagram. It's everything's perfect official, and we'd love to see you there.

[A]

Otherwise, like, subscribe. Don't forget to leave a comment. Oh, wait. You know what? Really quick we should say what? So we're in September already, huh? And in October, are we doing different Halloween costumes each week leading up to.

[B]

Halloween for four weeks? You want to do.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

I suck at Halloween costumes. That's the least gay thing about me. Because gays, like, that's a skill they have. But I'll figure it out.

[A]

I'm asking our followers. They can email us costume ideas@everythingsperfectpodcast Gmail.com. yeah, and it like, I guess it could be individual costumes, but also like.

[B]

It should be like, it should be paired costumes like Popeye and Olive oil.

[A]

My hair.

[B]

That could be good. So things like that, like little fun Ken and Barbie. Yeah.

[A]

Well, there's two of the four. What else you guys got?

[B]

Yeah, we'd love to hear it.

[A]

All right, that is a for real wrap on this episode, and we'll stay tuned for more.

[B]

See you next time. When I notice I just realign my mind crying.