← Excess Returns 
Loading summary
Transcript94 lines
- [00:01]
Sponsor Announcer 1
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability various 18 plus
- [00:27]
Sponsor Announcer 2
when you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.com podcast. That's Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
- [00:56]
Meb Faber
The reality is you got to remember like even at the start of the 20th century, you look at where the US was, I don't think it was preordained that this is guaranteed to happen. If you look at any of the surveys, are Americans, is it a good idea to start a company? It's like 90% rest of the world, it's like 10%. What percentage of Americans own stock and how much do they put in stock? This order of magnitude greater than if you go talk to people in Europe. In addition to not having air conditioning, they generally don't invest in stocks. Stocks are less volatile than bonds at the 20 year time horizon, which is crazy to think about, right? But on average, it's true. There's a great quote that we end the book on from old JP Morgan and he said, the man who is a bear on the future of the United States will always go broke.
- [01:48]
Sponsor Announcer 1
Foreign
- [01:51]
Matt Zigler
you're watching Excess Returns, the channel that makes complex investing ideas simple enough to actually use. Where better questions lead to better decisions. I'm Matt Zigler. Justin Carboneau is with me and we have an old friend of the show with a new book, Investing in America. Co founder and CIO at Cambria Investment Management. Meb Faber. Welcome back.
- [02:09]
Meb Faber
What's up, y'? All Good to be back.
- [02:11]
Matt Zigler
So this book, let's be honest, you're answering the age old question that I've long wondered who which is were Washington and Franklin really just Andreessen Horowitz of America A to Z? It's a beautiful thing. You you happy with this book? You happy with how this came out.
- [02:26]
Meb Faber
You know, I learned a lot. This is book number eight and I haven't written one in a decade. I had a child, so that's part of it. And have definitely never done a coffee table book and I've definitely never done a coffee table book on my own. So this is self published and we learned a lot for sure. We were joking on Twitter first. 10,000 people that buy the book get the exclusive privilege of not having a picture of me anywhere in the book. There's no author photo about the author. I forgot to put it in. But it was a really fun experience to show how good I am at marketing. I don't think anyone in history has ever published a book. A Saturday in the summer on a holiday. It's like a triple witching of things not to do when publishing a book. And I don't care. I'm doing it. July 4th baby. 250 year birthday. Happy birthday America.
- [03:21]
Matt Zigler
Take that marketing lessons. So start me, start me with this one. The US as the ultimate VC success story. I actually think this is a beautiful framing. Take a deep pull on that coffee, stir the thoughts, tell me why we're a VC success story.
- [03:39]
Meb Faber
So I'm going to tell you guys something that I don't know if I've shared widely. There's actually going to be two coffee table books and the first one, Coffee Tables.
- [03:49]
Matt Zigler
Do you think a modern American has.
- [03:51]
Meb Faber
The first one I wrote was actually a history of global stock markets back to 1600 because the party got started before we even existed as a country and got party got started in Amsterdam and some other places before that perhaps, but really enforce in Amsterdam and, and then the, the locus of power shifted to London. But we got started, you know, 1792 Buttonwood Agreement which by the way I learned Buttonwood Tree is just a sycamore which is an interesting takeaway anyway a lot of little faction learned but you know, when you're doing a lot. One of the most interesting parts about writing this book was of course the research. And so I probably read skimmed, I don't know, 30, 50, 70 financial history books that I'd never heard of which was super fun. Like everyone knows kind of a lot of the most well read ones. But there's a whole right tale of financial history books that were super fun to skim through. But as you start to dig, one of the takeaways was there's the narrative that we all learned in elementary school. Hey, America was founded by a lot of immigrants coming over and they were escaping, you know, religious persecution. They were in search of a better life and freedom. And while all that is true, if we know anything about incentives and money, a lot of it was these were funded not necessarily by the Crown in some cases, but in some cases by joint stock companies. And so you had things like the Virginia Company chartered 1606. So this was before, you know, the founding of the U.S. the Jamestown Colony, which, you know, maybe not be the most successful example, but there were so many other examples. You had Plymouth Colony, the Mayflower was financed. You have even, you know, the Puritans. Everyone's like, they would never do this. Yeah, the Massachusetts, Massachusetts Bay Colony. And it wasn't just the, the Brits. You had the Dutch with New Netherlands, West India Company and even the Swedes with New Sweden. But you even had examples because, I mean, think about, it's like when you talk about venture capital and the phrase actually or originated with this concept of they called them adventure merchant adventurers or adventure merchants, which sounds like venture capitalists. And so talk about the most risky portfolio diversification idea. You finance a ship to go get a bunch of gold in the New World. That sucker sinks some pirates take it over, right? Like, you lose all your money. That's a big zero. And if anything the VCs know is you spread your bets. Stock investors, you can't just invest in one, you got to invest in 10 or 20. And then all of a sudden, if you could spread your bets, well, most people couldn't finance 10 ships. And so then you started a joint stock company that could finance a bunch of ships. And all of a sudden this very new, interesting joint stock company idea became a thing. And this thing helped to start the United States. And so you had some great examples of product market fit. We're like, oh, well, crap, we can't find any gold here. But, you know, what grows really nicely is tobacco. And, you know, things like that. You read these stories and it's a lot of fun. And that was a little bit of the origins. And, you know, so maybe it was something in the water, something in the DNA, something in the soil that got all these risk takers to start thinking even from the get go.
- [07:18]
Matt Zigler
There's something about how a successful thing begets this culture of ownership as you break it out in the book. And I love this idea because it feels like that culture of ownership, it's not that it forms like you said before, it's Amsterdam and these other places, but it kind of does reform around America in these early stages with all these different ventures coming together. And then Finding success. And it feels like that snowballs. That a fair statement.
- [07:44]
Meb Faber
One of my favorite parts of the book is the quotes. And some of them kind of give you chills. They're inspiring, you know, very patriotic. Ralph Waldo Emerson has one. We put in each, each decade chapter. He says, America is the country of the future. It is a country of beginnings, of projects, of vast designs and expectations. And I just like this optimistic, you know, feeling to that. And there's a handful of others. Old Abe Lincoln kind of got it. He's like the prudent, penniless beginner in the world, labors for wages a while, saves a surplus and invests it in tools or land, you know, so it's already thinking about putting money to work. Honest Abe. But, you know, it's funny, I think about this a lot. Currently, right? US is 2/3 of world market cap. Just unbelievable success story. And if you look at any of the surveys, are Americans, is it a good idea to start a company? It's like 90%. Rest of the world, it's like 10%. What percentage of Americans own stock and how much do they put in stock? Just order a magnitude greater than if you go talk to people in Europe. In addition to not having air conditioning, they generally don't invest in stocks. It might be real estate, it might be cash. But same with our Japanese friends, same with Aussies, on and on. And so this wedge, if you know anything about compounding and equities, if presumably the last 400 years or 200 years are similar to the next two or 400 equities, that compound at 7, 8, 9, 10% is a lot more than bonds or cash. That compound at 3, 4, 5, or certainly more than money under the mattress, which is a negative 3 per year on real returns, right? Like that's a 0 and the negative 3. So ignoring the fact that I think the stock market's wicked expensive right now, that wedge only grows, right? So only that compounding continues to where the US and people that invest become a bigger part of the pie anyway. That's been going on for 200 years. And I can't see anything really, really getting in the way of it.
- [09:49]
Matt Zigler
So the people who start this off, they didn't have coffee table books. I'm not even sure if they necessarily had traditional coffee tables. They had something like it, I am sure, but they didn't have the book to say, here's 200 years of stock history. Here's why this is a good idea. The people who come after get all the benefit from it. You asked this question in the book, like, why study the past, particularly this far back, knowing the people in the past couldn't have studied any of this themselves.
- [10:15]
Meb Faber
A couple things, you know, part of the book, I, I, as with everything on Twitter and social media, people are always, but actually this one thing, Nebula, you know, how expensive it would have been to buy stocks and, you know, couldn't buy an index and all these things. I'm like, look, look, look. It's meant to be a visual visualization. It's meant to be conceptual to understand. But even Ben Franklin got it. You know, he said money makes money and the money that makes money makes money. He understood this. Compounding and being an owner and part of my belief is it actually doesn't matter that much what you invest in, which is sounds like a, you know, a true heretic, but it's the fact that you're putting money to work, the mindset of being an owner and then it's money you're not spending, which is what we all want to do, right? You want to go buy the new Lambo, go on a vacation, on and on. And so, yes, look, how many people invested in 1800? Very few. How many stocks were there? Very few. But those that did were hugely rewarded. And of course, there's differences, right? If you look back in the 19th century, most investors really were investing for income, you know, and, and, and bonds were a huge portion of what people did. And when they invested in stocks, it wasn't for capital appreciation. Ignoring the few sort of South Sea bubble, canal bubble, railroad manias, those periods where things went kind of crazy. Most people are like, hey, yeah, I got a nice fat 5% yield. That's all I care about. Which is funny today because we're at all time lows on the dividend yield, which I'm kind of, I'm kind of cheering that it crosses below one in the US Just to say that I saw it. I, I also am kind of cheering for the Cape ratio for once more in my lifetime to be higher than my age. I think I'm the downside of that slope where, you know, I turn 49 this year. I don't, I don't think it's ever going to happen again. He's, this is my one shot at being able to see a bubble get above my age. Maybe, but, but yeah, it's meant to be instructive. So when I say that, hey, if you put a dollar in stocks in 1800 is 200 million today, I could have said if you put $100 in stocks, then it would be 20 billion. But people like I feel like would get even angry at that. But it's, but it's meant to be kind of hey, take away this lesson which is long term compounding is the key lesson to take on this and long term youngins is not hours, weeks, months, it's years and decades.
- [12:44]
Sponsor Announcer 3
Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries at. Ollie, we've got wellness down to a science. From PMS to pregnancy to menopause. Our women's wellness line offers science backed support every stage. No judgment, no shame, none of the stigma. Just supplements designed to meet you wherever you're at. Ollie, choose science over shame. Find support at a retailer near you or on olli.com that's o l l y dot com.
- [13:27]
Matt Zigler
What about looking at stocks? Why, why'd you focus on stocks? Just because it was easier than focusing on some other weird asset class.
- [13:36]
Meb Faber
There's an interesting takeaway in the beginning. And if you think about ownership and, and if you look at the Forbes top hundred, it's all business people. It's, it's people who started companies and investors in those companies, even the top celebrities, athletes, creators. Nowadays if you look where did they make their big money? I mean everything from Jordan to Dre to Dolly Parton, on and on. It's actually usually not their career, it's their business, right where, where they made their money. So this concept has always been around and being an owner to me is, is a huge unlock. And there's the easy and hard way to do it. The hard way is starting your own company. And we all know most companies fail. It's like being an entrepreneur is the hardest thing on the planet. Obviously rewarding when it works, but really tough. Or you can just hire Tim Cook and all the Warren Buffett and all these top CEOs by buying a share of their company through public stocks. And so there's a really interesting idea in the book and others have talked about this, of course, but stock market's hella volatile on one year, one month, one day. It went down 20% one day before, right? But you start to zoom out. And that's the entire thesis of this book was that it zooms in on every decade and it's like, look how crazy this decade was. And then even the terrible decades like The Great Depression, the 30s, on and on it zooms out and shows the full 200 year period. And you could barely find some of these blips on this logarithmic chart for 200 years. And so the takeaway is like, hey, if you're going to put money to work for long periods, stocks are the place to be. Now it doesn't mean that bonds aren't a part of this. We can get super weird and deep on asset allocation. But one of the takeaways was that if you look at stocks versus bonds, the kink happens around 20 years in terms of, hey, on a 20 year rolling basis, the best case outcome for stocks, better than bonds. The worst case outcome stocks is better than bonds. And looking on an after inflation basis. But even weirder, stocks are less volatile than bonds at the 20 year time horizon, which is crazy to think about, right? But on average it's true. And then obviously the return advantage, it's like I think well over double for stocks on average over bonds for 20 years. So the hard part, of course, and we have tons of quotes in this, Peter lynch has a good one. He says stock market has been the best place to be over the last 10 years, 30 years, 100 years. But if you need the money in one or two years, probably shouldn't be buying stocks, right? But, but the, the disconnect of humans on hey, I invest for the long term and then what time horizon that they actually base their decisions and execute them. Huge mismatch, right? They're checking the news, worrying about the Fed, thinking about the election. What's gold doing? Ah, you know, and, and it's, it's a, creates so many, it's so many problems as we all know.
- [16:52]
Justin Carboneau
Matt, I'm pretty sure I have this right, but your drawdown chart that you have in there kind of highlights this too, is that, you know, I think bear markets used to come around. Maybe they will come around more often in the future, who knows. But you know, historically speaking, you know, the US economy has experienced more frequent recessions, more frequent bear markets. And to your point, a lot of times some of those great returns, right, come after those lost decades, you know, end of 08, early 09, to you know, after the, well, the Depression was a long period of time before the market recovered. But the point is, is that, you know, we're in an interesting time today in that we haven't really seen a true bear market since 08. And so you, you wonder, you know, what does that, you know, how, how does that impact future Returns for investors today. It's just an interesting question.
- [17:40]
Meb Faber
I really wanted to add a post script to the book and be like, you know, P.S. end notes, like. Well, just to point out I don't want to mark the top of this cycle by putting out this very patriotic and optimistic book. You know, look it, it's no, it's no secret that we believe that the broad US stock market is very expensive. Doesn't mean it can't keep going up. There's plenty of other great assets around the world. Global stocks, REITs, bonds, real assets like tips and commodities. But also other stocks within the US look great. You don't have to pick market cap weighted, but that's the long history and I think it's a feature, not a bug. How many of us look around the last couple years, the last decade, we're like, man, look at this. Just dumb stuff people are doing with their money. They're buying a bunch of NFTs, they're, you know, buying stocks that trade at a hundred times revenue. All these things that, which on average you see during these romping stomping bull markets, you know, bear markets help to clean that out quite a bit. You know, people tend to pull in the reins a bit and stop doing really speculative dumb stuff when they've lost half their money. You know, it's time to get serious. Right? It feels like when you're, when you, you got a mortgage, you got some kids and oh by the way, is a recession and you lost your job on and on. You know, people tend to stop yoloing a little more when, when that happens. But as you mentioned, it's been a long time. You know, we, we wrote one of my favorite papers the last few years ago was the, the bear Market and Diversification. Just talking about how special this period has been for US stocks since 2009 and we've started to see a shift in the last couple years. We've seen a lot of other ideas start to really accelerate and start to perform. So I think there's nothing to be afraid of. Bear markets, I think if you're young, hey, that's the best thing could happen to you. Get a nice fat 50% decline. Good for you. If you're in your 20s, 30s, even your 40s, if you're probably 80, 90, you know, maybe not so much, but, but I think it's a natural part of it and it's the cycle of, you know, cycle of life.
- [19:54]
Justin Carboneau
Do you think one of the statistics that kind of blew my mind was you hit on this earlier this long term, compounding excess returns of US over, over foreign stocks. And I think it's something like, I don't know, you have it in the book here. It was, I think, Ryan Taylor chart
- [20:11]
Matt Zigler
where basically a dollar invested in 1800 grows to over 4 million in the US versus rest of the world, $51,000.
- [20:21]
Justin Carboneau
That's crazy to me. I mean, what do you think? And maybe you hit on, I mean, what, what in your opinion, MEB is a driver there? Is it more risk taking here? Is it more ownership? Like, how, what would you accredit that to?
- [20:32]
Meb Faber
Hindsight bias? No, look, the real, the reality is, you got to remember, like, even at the start of the 20th century, you look at where the US was, I don't think it was preordained that this is guaranteed to happen. And if you were to, like, if you were to horse race or to place your bets on countries that, you know, hey, this is where I'm putting my money for the next hundred years. You know, there's probably a dozen choices that might have been interesting. And Even during the 20th century, like, this is the crazy part I love talking about. The US didn't hold the crown, right? You had Japan being the largest stock market. You told someone in Japan in the 80s, like, hey, we're going to teleport 50 years in the future and your stock market's going to go from the largest in the world to 5% of the world. They would be like, you're crazy. And likewise, if you were to tell people if you were having a pint in a pub in the UK with a bunch of Brits and say, hey, guys, this Korean War that just ended, they're going to chop the country in half and the bottom half is going to be bigger than your stock market in 50 years. They'd be like, you've lost your mind, right? Like what? But both of these things have happened. And so, you know, I think if you look at the long history of markets and countries, you know, it's tough, it's tough to pick the right horse in the winter. I mean, look, the US has all the tailwinds and has had all of them for a long time. I mean, just you go down the list and check. But it's not guaranteed that that will always be in place forever. You know, it's been a special place. It's had a ton going forward. I think it's unique. I think it's the best country in the world, on and on. But, you know, there's a lot of billions of people around the world that would also like to be where we are. Right? It's still the number one. Despite all the, you know, political discourse we read, it's still by far the number one country that everyone wants to move to for a lot of reasons. And so if you look at a lot of the metrics, number of Nobel laureates, R D spend on and on, the US is definitely still numero uno VC money. Some of the stats on VC investing, also things like market cap of companies in the US versus places like Europe. And you're just like, Euro bros. What the hell are you guys doing? Like, how are you guys falling so far behind? Like, what, what is happening? Like, great, that we're. And maybe we're wasting it, but everything. Energy production, on and on. And so that all having been said, you know, as a percentage of world gdp, US is only a quarter, you know, so there is quite a big disconnect between us and, and, but if you were to like go out 50 years and say, hey, Matt, do you think the US is going to be 2/3 world market cap? I would say no. I would fully expect countries like China and India to, you know, accelerate and get a bigger piece of the pie. Like, how could they not? But I, I would, you know, would I expect the US to go from 2/3 world market cap to 5 like Japan did? No. No, I wouldn't. So still really bullish over the long term. But you can't muck it up, you know, that's for sure. And we were, who knows? We'll see.
- [23:58]
Justin Carboneau
Was there anything. Was there any decade or any. Which I'm sure you've learned a tremendous amount and just studying this history, but, you know, was there any decade that really sort of jumped out at you as being a big surprise in terms of, you know, something you didn't know about this country and our markets that sort of took you by surprise?
- [24:21]
Meb Faber
Oh, there's so many little nuggets that are just kind of funny if you look at one. You know, one of the things we talk about as all this discussion of Greenland was going on last year and people were pulling their hair out, it's like, by the way, do you guys know, like, I don't, I don't know what percentage of the country has been acquired, but it's a lot. You know, it's half, maybe Louisiana Purchase, Alaska, on and on. Which, by the way, amazing deals, I think. Really fantastic. There's, there's some fun stats. Like, you know, we love to tell people, do you know that the motto on the US Coin was not always in God we trust. In fact, it used to be mind your business, which I think is just absolutely hilarious. It was designed by the Fugio, scent was designed by Benjamin Franklin. And there was actually a second part to the, to the phrase. And I'm trying to remember what it was. Oh, it was time flies. So mind your business. I just think it's funnier if you say just mind your business.
- [25:24]
Matt Zigler
But in this case that meant like, be mindful of your business. Right?
- [25:28]
Meb Faber
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like. But, but anything about Ben Franklin was super fun. But there's a lot of, I mean, you know, look, there's, we don't teach personal finance in school. And so there's a lot of kind of common misunderstandings when it comes to investing. And so we tackle a lot of those in the book. We talk about the decline in purchasing power, we talk about how you got to reinvest your dividends, you can't spend them. And look, you know, you got to remember like every history around the world, this is, you know, it's not all roses. And particularly for lots of different groups. I mean, women couldn't vote. Black people for very large percentage of the time had a rough go. Native Americans, I mean, my goodness, on and on. But you know, overall the, the progress certainly, and, and we talk, it gets into all sorts of different things about immigration, on and on. But the, the 19th century for me was a century that I knew much less about than obviously than the 20th century. And it's fun to read through some of the speculative times with canals, with railroads and looking to kind of what's going on with AI and CapEx spending today, say, well, you know, maybe not that different a couple hundred years ago as it, as it would have been and a lot of rhymes that we have today.
- [26:56]
Justin Carboneau
That was one question I was going to ask you, which is, you know, was there any decades that really look similar to where we are? And the railroad point is a, a good one. And you know, sometimes people talk back to the fiber optic build out during the Internet boom and railroads and how a lot of times the capex, you know, the returns didn't come necessarily from those investments per se to the companies, but they kind of filtered out into the fabric of society more so, so it'll be interesting to see with AI
- [27:26]
Meb Faber
how that plays out. And we have one chart that shows there's a big element of luck and just randomness. And it shows, hey, if you invested during a certain decade, like maybe the 80s or the 90s or this past decade. Amazing. But there's been plenty of other decades where not so great. The seventies. What a hard time to be an investor, particularly on a real basis after inflation. 2000s, you know, stocks negative, right. On and on. So there's a huge element of us extrapolating our own lived experience, which I think is, is of course dangerous because if anything, there tends to be some mean reversion over time. We're not just probably going to do 15% a year for, for, for forever.
- [28:12]
Matt Zigler
I mean, it sure would be nice though. It sure would be.
- [28:15]
Meb Faber
You know, hey, I'm, I'm okay. Like, you know, I would love to see. We joke, you know, the Japanese bubble probably double where we are today. And I said, I'm okay. Bubbles are the most fun, man. Money just slosh around everywhere. Companies giving away free, free benefits. You know, Uber, I was great when Uber used to be like five bucks for an Uber everywhere. Now it's like 60 bucks. You know, go back to those times. The. I love it when the venture capitalists are subsidizing us. Come on.
- [28:43]
Matt Zigler
So on the, on the drawdown point you put that one in four years is negative for stocks. Bonds have outpaced stocks over many long windows, including stretches of 40 and 60 years. So not even just these little time periods that you're talking about a minute ago? Stocks go down a lot. And there are some crazy stretches where bonds beat stocks. What'd you learn from looking at those?
- [29:07]
Meb Faber
Look, you know, we're of the mindset that the most important takeaway for any investor is getting to the finish line. And, and you know, what is this all for, right? It's not to just accumulate as much as possible. It's, hey, I'm, I'm investing. I want to maximize my return, of course. But also, you know, there, there's a purpose to this. And so the biggest struggle for most, particularly individuals, but this is also true for institutions. This happens quite a lot. If you've seen my commentary, commentary about Calpers and Bridgewater and on and on, is that the path matters and particularly the losses when you're going through volatile periods. I think, you know, it's like the Richter scale in earthquakes where you. Every, every 10 above 20% is, isn't like a 10 percentage points worse. It's like a 10x is painful, you know, so 20% most people can handle. But then 30, 40, 50 people start losing their mind and they behave, you know, the flight response. So I, I think by far, when people look back over on their lifetime, they're on their deathbed, no one's going to be like, you know what I'm man, if I if only I got 9% instead of 8, but they will look back and be like, you know, 8% instead of zero because you panicked and sold everything or just did something really dumb, YOLO'd into a bunch of fart coins or something. And so no question in my mind is it totally sensible to diversify across the really three main asset classes, Global stocks, global bonds and global real assets. And I think if you could just close your eyes and put U.S. stocks in a lockbox for 50 years in a trust and wake up in 50 years, like, you'll be fine. No, no problem there. Or 20 years even. But the path where you may lose half in between there is tough because particularly in a world where we can all look it up every second on now it's going to be all night too. Who knows? I think that's really hard for people. And so there's no question that getting some zigs and zags in there across different asset classes is a totally useful and thoughtful way to go about it.
- [31:34]
Sponsor Announcer 4
Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 50% off custom window treatments during the 4th of July mega sale@blinds.com from outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help and professional measure and install services or diy with confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 50% off site wide plus huge savings on door busters right now during the 4th of July mega
- [32:02]
Meb Faber
sale@blinds.com get business done with the new
- [32:06]
Sponsor Announcer 5
American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card with unlimited 2% cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5% cash back on flag flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of $1,500 cash back after you spend $50,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership terms apply. Learn more at GO MX Graphite
- [32:36]
Matt Zigler
maybe best captured you have the line if you are going to be an investor, get used to being a loser. A little counterintuitive. Explain that one.
- [32:45]
Meb Faber
Well, there's another quote by Howard Marks too in the book where he's like it's more important to ensure survival under negative outcomes than it is to guarantee maximum returns under favorable ones. And so the reality is you know, stock, any investment, stocks, bonds is either at an all time high or it's in a drawdown. There's, there's only two states that exist and the reality is investments spend, I think it's over two thirds, three quarters of the time in some form of drawdown. Now usually Maybe it's only 1, 5, 10% but sometimes it's a lot more. And I think that's hard for people. Right. It's also true when you start to extrapolate to individual stocks. That's even harder. Where 2/3. Hank Bessenbinder who we feature in the book, you know, his famous paper to stocks outperform T bills. It's like 2/3 of stocks underperform an index. About half have zero returns over their lifetime. And you know, what is it a quarter essentially go to zero. So it's even harder there. But that's just, that's, that's part of the tuition, that's part of the cost of business. And there's a lot of quotes from Munger and others where they're like, look, if you can't handle these downturns like you, you shouldn't be invested. And, or you need to set up the guardrails like having a financial advisor having some rules in place that won't, you know, cause you to in 2009, sell, sell everything. I can't take anymore and then never get back in. Because that, that's a terminal outcome for a lot of people. That's, that's really, really what we're trying
- [34:29]
Matt Zigler
to avoid inside of those terminal outcomes too, I think. And this is where it's both tempting and exciting to look at it this way in, in decades. So obviously the decade chunks are convenient. Everybody knows what they are. And years ending in zero make it easy to talk about. There's some pros and cons of splitting it this way. Give me your pros and cons list for this.
- [34:53]
Meb Faber
The pro is it starts to help people zoom out for sure. And it does feel like for whatever reason, the decade ends. Beginnings act as turning points. I mean we certainly saw it in the US in 99. We saw it in Japan on and on. And it's just easy. Like we're, we're narrative animals. Like we tell stories, we tell stories, we put names on things. The Roaring Twenties, nifty fifties dot com. What are we going to call this one? Covid? Meme, Stun, AI, Whatever. This boom is brought to you by Faber's new book. I mean, yeah, so I, I think that that's A big part of it, you know, the, the human element certainly, like is, is there any reason that stocks trade at a 42k ratio today versus a 5 historically at some other times? No, it's just what people are willing to pay. Right. Like that's the, the, the, the difference. And so, you know, I think the narrative helps us get through it, sustain.
- [36:02]
Justin Carboneau
One of the things that you mentioned earlier is the dividend yield on take something like the S&P 500. I don't know what is it sub 2% right now today, but yet it
- [36:11]
Meb Faber
was like 1.05 is.
- [36:14]
Justin Carboneau
Oh, is it? Oh wow.
- [36:15]
Sponsor Announcer 2
Oh wow.
- [36:15]
Justin Carboneau
Almost below almost sub 1.
- [36:17]
Meb Faber
Well, it's an all time low.
- [36:20]
Justin Carboneau
That's crazy. I didn't realize it was that low. And to the point, you know, I think something like maybe 2/3, half or 2/3 of the returns historically have come from, from, from dividends. But what that got me thinking of MEB is like you kind of, kind of getting off the book here a little bit, but you know, you sort of. One of your very first investment strategies that you put in an ETF wrapper was shareholder yield, which is looking at all the different ways companies can return capital to shareholders. And you know, on the one hand you would think a very low yield might be problematic for future returns, but at the same time, I think companies are using a lot of different ways to return that capital to shareholders. So maybe it's not as bad as it seems on the surface.
- [37:06]
Meb Faber
Yeah, you could do, you could run a hypothetical that let's say none of the companies in the stock market pay dividends ever, historically. Well, you have the same exact equity line. It just all comes from capital appreciation. Right. They retain the earnings or you could say they pay out all the earnings. Very similar to something like REITs. Again, exact same capital appreciation line. But the huge takeaway on the dividend part is you have to reinvest those dividends. And we've, we ran some paid surveys, thousands of people and found out that 70% of individuals don't understand that like they think dividends or free coupon payments very similar to bonds. So if you had to go back to probably the 1800s, that was the reason why I think, you know, people were like, oh no, I invest in stocks for this dividend income they're paying me. I'm getting an allowance, I'm getting a certain payment. Like, no, that's not how it works. And so for good reasons and bad, I think everyone could certainly take away whatever they want from this current situation. Is There, no question the US stocks are expensive, so the dividend yield is low. Yes, that's true. But also companies have shifted a ton from paying out dividends over half to buybacks. And so on a total shareholder yield basis, it looks much more reasonable on the US stock market. As far as buybacks, however, 2026, the year that we are currently all of a sudden that faucet of buybacks for a lot of big companies, you're seeing two things happen. One, they are ramping up a ton of capex and ramping down buybacks, these hyperscalers. And two, you're getting something you haven't had for a very long time, which is big time supply. These three IPOs on one of which is completed, two more on deck are arguably as big as all the IPOs in the 1990s combined. SpaceX, OpenAI anthropic just because they're so massive. And so it's an old school supply and demand. We're getting a bunch of supply coming to the market. Wouldn't that be boring? But fitting that that was what kills the bull market. It's just old school issuance rather than anything else. So I think it's hard because there's a couple things wrapped up in this topic and but it's a good example too, you know, comparing markets over different periods. We have a chart in the book of what sectors look like in 1900 versus what they look like today. Hey, you bought the stock market in 1900, guess what? You're investing mostly in railroads, right? And today that's very different. But it's also true on things like dividends and taxation and on and on. So you got to be mindful extrapolating too much from what's happened in the past, but the consistency, I think the common thread has been there that it pays to be an owner and put your money to work.
- [40:05]
Justin Carboneau
One of the things that surprised me is you have a chart of US stocks, REITs and gold going back to 2000 and I think if you polled most investors in the room, most would say hands down the S and P was the best performing asset. But Gold and REITs actually have outdone US stocks. Now we're using that 2000 start date which was sort of like the start of that bare market. So maybe that's a little unfair. But the point is, is that it's, you know, 25 years or whatever it is of, you know, US stocks underperforming those other, other two asset classes, which is also interesting and shows the importance of diversification. I Think.
- [40:41]
Meb Faber
Sure. Every asset class has its day in the sun and day in the shade over time. And there was a very contentious recent episode on CNBC where Joe Kernan and Jeremy Grantham got into a bit, and, you know, Kernan was like, oh, you've been bearish forever, and you've done a huge disservice. And. And, you know, Grantham kind of rebuttal, on and on. And despite how much I love US Stocks, look, they're great. If you look at the global market portfolio, US Is a percentage of the global portfolio of stocks and bonds globally. If you partitioned it out, US Stocks would only be about a third of the total pie because it's roughly half stocks and bonds. Of that, it's usually half US and foreign. So foreign bonds are actually bigger than US Bonds, and the stock component, US Is bigger. So even then, you're only putting a third in U.S. stocks. But we wrote a paper called what if you invested in no US Stocks as a thought experiment, like, clearly that would destroy your returns. Like, my God, you can never. And it turns out you do just fine, right? Totally, totally reasonable. If you invest in foreign stocks and reads and gold and bonds and corporate bonds, you know, so there's no magical one asset that, you know, if you take it out. Loosehold used to write about this. They called it the donut portfolio. You do totally fine over time. Now they zig and zag for sure. But there's other times when assets really do well and have a run of one year or an entire decade. Cliff Asness wrote an old paper on this many moons ago where he looked at, I think, kind of five main asset classes, and he rolled it forward every five years and said, well, could you predict what happens the next five years? Maybe the things that did terrible did great. The next five. Or maybe the things that did great kept doing great. And it's actually like, pretty tough, right? It's pretty, pretty. A lot of randomness involved. And so I think the narrative of, you know, just starting points and ending points certainly makes it obvious. But, yeah, if you were to ask most people on the street, hey, this century, what's been the best of those three assets? 90% of people get it wrong. 95%. Maybe you'll get your odd Canadian that'll say, no gold, right? Or, Nope, it's. It's REITs. But, you know, nobody would expect U.S. stocks to be last in that race.
- [43:10]
Matt Zigler
I like that we pin it on Canadians once in a while, though. I think it's important to make sure, you know, yeah, the rise of a 250 year bull market. Now since 2000 both golden REITs have actually outperformed the S&P 500. So talk to me about balancing that idea stocks for the long run. And this 250 year bull market in US stocks with the. We did stuff works.
- [43:33]
Meb Faber
We did an old book which we hope to update next year because now it's a decade old called Global Asset Allocation where we looked at a lot of portfolios, how they were weighted, how they performed and the takeaway was that they all did great no matter what you invested in really as long as you had some of the main ingredients. Global stocks, global bonds, global real assets and you would huge dispersion in any year. So the best performer versus the worst performer. So portfolio is like 60, 40 endowment risk parity on and on. The spread in any given year was like 20 percentage points from best to worst but over the full period it was within like a percent or two. So, so very tight coupling over time. But you would in some cases, you know, hey, the 70s, like you better have had real asset exposure. Where else the 70s was rough, the 80s, 90s was hey, bull market in capital assets like stocks and bonds. Those did amazing. And then 2000 decade, oh man, US stocks underperformed everything in the world. Everyone wanted emerging markets and on and on. So I think this concept of balance, one of the portfolios we tongue in cheek kind of profiled in the book was the Talmud portfolio where you know, it was a riff on something that's 2000 years old where it said let every man invest a third in land, a third in business and keep a third in reserve. And so we, we just said hey, that sounds like a third. Stocks, bonds and cash or sorry stocks, REITs or real assets and bonds, cash. And that's actually a really hard portfolio to beat. I think that would beat the vast majority of institutions over time. And so thinking about having a global portfolio, certainly to me it's going to be less volatile, slower drawdowns, more balance, including those. Because all three of those kind of respond in different market environments based on yield curve, based on growth, based on interest rates, on and on. And to me it's a lot more balanced.
- [45:41]
Matt Zigler
Let's look at the one that's about the investor who starts at 20, contributes for just six years and how they end up with about as much as the person who waits until 40 and then contributes for the next 30 years. The financial financial planner in me cries when I look at this chart, but I know it's true. What is it?
- [45:58]
Meb Faber
I feel like this one, the financial planners get, like this is something that is taught if, if you ever have a personal finance course, this is, this is something you're gonna get something like this and almost every one. I think the challenge though is like beating it into young kids heads. You know, it's like, okay, you get it, but are you actually doing it? And it's hard. You know, most of us, you're in your 20s, you're in your teens, you don't have any money. And if you do, you want to spend it by going to the movies with your friends, maybe having some beers, maybe getting a Eurail pass. Like you're not thinking about, hey, me at 50, old AF with some kids and worrying about a mortgage. Like I don't have sympathy for that guy or empathy or anything. Like forget about him, you know, but, but it is, it is important and it is a huge unlock where you know, $10,000 at 20, 10% a year at, at retirement age is a million and you don't have to do anything. Like it's the most magical thing in the world. So there's a lot of ideas wrapped up in there. I think that it would benefit our world. Certainly target date funds, certainly retirement accounts where it's kind of locked up. I think there's probably some, some serious fintech ideas that, that could be built that would be billion dollar ideas where you kind of wrap up an account maybe in a trust or just basically a lockbox and say like look, you're, you're in. Too bad you can't get out. You know, and so annuities were something that was kind of like this, but they, they are so damn expensive that it kind of eats away at the, the benefits of, of doing it. But I think there's some real interesting ideas there. So yeah, listeners, or may get started early.
- [47:52]
Justin Carboneau
Well, maybe the Trump, the Trump accounts will help with this one.
- [47:55]
Meb Faber
I love the idea. I, I love it so much. You know, we're, I like to call it Invest America, which was the charity behind it. You know, I think it's unnecessary to politicize it, you know, and name it after our supreme leader. But you know, that's, that's Donald. So, but look, God bless that it's happening. I think it's, I think it's the best. I think we'll look back on and be like, what a great decision. And I think it's actually less from the financial part of it. Like I actually don't think, hey, you got an 18 year old that's now got 10 or 20 grand. Is that going to be life changing? Maybe. But more importantly, you feel like you're part of it and you start to, you start to flex a muscle that instead of being like, ah, hey, look, this freaking AI data centers in my backyard, or look at this evil Elon Musk shooting up rockets and catching them with chopsticks to all of a sudden being like, hey, I'm a shareholder in that. I own part of that. You know, I'm cheering for these incredible entrepreneurs and scientists on and on. And so I love that part of it, but it also, it flexes the muscle of watching the balance grow. Hey, I, I get it. Like, oh, this was a thousand bucks and now it's five. And learning that muscle memory imprint early I think is going to be awesome. So we're actually donating to. If anyone's written a book, you know that very rarely are there profits, but, but hopefully there's a ton of profits for this book and we're going to donate it to that charity. My hope is that, yeah, all of it's going to Invest America. You know, my hope is that we've been in contact with them, so they. At some point, I'd love to do it. Look, I'm not Michael Dell, who Talked down like 5 billion, but I think it'd be cool at some point to be able to donate to individual zip codes and say, you know, hey, where my dad was born, my mom was born, where I was born. You know, like a salmon swimming back up river. Let me, let me give a shout out to those places that helped, helped raise all this. I think you can get down to the state level maybe. But also, I'm sure I would have a lot more negotiating power if I was donating 10 million or 100 million. Thank you, whatever this may be the 10,000, 100,000, but we'll see. Maybe, maybe it ends up on the NY New York Times after this podcast, y'.
- [50:20]
Justin Carboneau
All.
- [50:20]
Meb Faber
And everyone buys. By the way, listeners, you can buy bulk. If you buy, I want to buy 50 or 100 for your financial practice or all your clients, you get 33% and 50% discounts on Itasca. So if you Google Itasca, meb favorite, it's automatically applied at checkout. So you can get half off. You buy a hundred books and have that warm fuzzy feeling knowing that it all goes to the youngins.
- [50:51]
Matt Zigler
MEB favor is for the children.
- [50:53]
Meb Faber
That's right.
- [50:54]
Matt Zigler
That's the way it goes. Over 20 years, you've never lost Money in stocks, except they're outside of the US markets. Yeah, this is the swam and swimming salmon swimming upstream. But in the Slovenian fish farm where the Faber family's on vacation,
- [51:11]
Justin Carboneau
you got
- [51:11]
Meb Faber
to remember there's always outliers. And so one of my favorite books, Triumph the Optimist looks at all these individual countries back to 1900 and you study history, you realize that look, shite happens. China, Russia, at some point both of them said oh thank you very much, we're closing our stock market, goodbye. Right. And so all those positions went to zero. You have other times where the country stock markets just do poorly. And a lot of ex US countries over the past 10, 15 years, you know, places like Greece, China at one point had no stock returns for like 30 years a couple years ago and got arguably the most, the cheapest level it's ever been. I love hearing that as a contrarian value person but, but others kind of run away. But there's been some stock markets that have been as good or even better than the US over various periods. Like I believe like tiny South Africa, Australia, Switzerland are all in the running there. And there's others on the other end. You know, big takeaway, don't lose world wars, that makes it tough. Austria had pretty, pretty tough returns. But other ones even like Japan post their big boom and bubble struggled and that's a famous, you know, kind of fintwit meme of, of talking about Japan example as an outlier. But to me it's not an outlier. Like it's part of the narrative. Like it's still a top five global economy. So I think, I think you know, there's plenty of examples of countries that have, you know, the, the path is, is, has and will be tough. And so the takeaway to me is that in no scenario has investing in an individual country been better than diversifying globally. Switzerland, you could maybe make the example over various periods, but almost universally lower volatility, lower drawdowns. Investing in a global portfolio.
- [53:13]
Sponsor Announcer 5
Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade. Unlocking the power of thinkorswim. The award winning trading platforms loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market. Visualize your trades in a new light on thinkorswim desktop with robust charting and analysis tools all while you uncover new opportunities with up to the minute market news and insights. ThinkOrSwim is available on desktop, web and mobile to meet you where you are. It's built by the trading obsessed to help you trade brilliantly. Learn more@schwab.com trading.
- [53:49]
Matt Zigler
Talk on the sector level. And I love this, I love the chart of 1900-2025 where we're basically all rail and coming out of beautiful coal powered northeastern Pennsylvania with our transcontinental railroad. I feel this because I look at this chart and I see the wealth in the area I grew up in. Just going off the cliff as he's in.
- [54:08]
Meb Faber
Where was that?
- [54:10]
Matt Zigler
Wilkes Barre, Scranton area of Pennsylvania.
- [54:12]
Meb Faber
So you know, if you study the long history of markets, of industries, you know it's, it's a story of one of the benefits and beauties of capitalism and free markets is that creative destruction, right where. And I think it's a benefit but in, in no uncertain terms does it leave gravestones as far as companies, as far as entire towns, cities, states that were set up for one environment. And then whoosh, you know, look at something like Texas, very energy focused, New York, very financial focus, Midwest industrials, California tech, on and on, right? Like we can understand that. And you have disruptions of companies like the modern era, everyone gets Blockbuster or everyone gets things like Kodak, right, Where all of a sudden you got digital cameras and they're slow to adjust and. But that's just the nature of markets. And so this kind of couples with my other favorite chart which is stocks by decade. And looking at, hey, what are the top stocks today? Everyone knows that they've got a nickname, the Mag 7, right? Or the Mangoes or whatever it is. But it's all us talk tech stock dominance. But even if you go back to 2000 pre GFC, you had different companies, a bunch of Chinese stocks, you go back to 80s, Japan, on and on. And you go back even further and you're like I don't even know what some of these stocks are. You know, it's maybe my mom is talking about GE or a P and T or Standard Oil, you know, on and on. But, but the constant certainly has changed. And the intro to the book is, even makes that reference where we were talking about getting into a Waymo and I was like imagine telling someone 150 years ago that you know this story, hey, I'm getting into this robot driven car. And what their responses would be and we were laughing because their response would be like what's a car? Like they don't even, they didn't even have cars, right? Like you're riding on around horses. So what will be in 50, 100 years? They'll be laughing at us and be like God, you guys couldn't even teleport what the hell? You know? Like, it's gonna be fun to watch, but. And it was certainly weird as well.
- [56:30]
Justin Carboneau
So just two more for me. One meb. Where can I get that hat?
- [56:35]
Meb Faber
So Cambria. My. My last year, I'm kind of a procrastinator. I don't really have a manic personality, except when it comes to writing. And I can only write, like a book. Like, when I write a book, it takes like a month.
- [56:52]
Justin Carboneau
I can't.
- [56:52]
Meb Faber
Like, if you're like, hey, write this book over the next year. Like, I'll wait 10 months and then do it. So one of the things I was doing before writing the. To avoid writing the book was designing hats. And so we probably got 50 different hats for, you know, our ETF. It started with our ETFs. So let's see. We got Eyld with a nice wave. We got Fyld, we got M. Feud on and on. Um, and then we design our hats.
- [57:22]
Justin Carboneau
Love it.
- [57:23]
Meb Faber
If you. Well, you know, I googled custom patch hats because those. I wanted to get some really nice custom patch hats. And this will surprise everyone listening. But that led me to a domain custom patch hats.com, which is actually based in North Carolina. So shout out to my North Carolina tweeps. But they actually do incredible work. And so we've probably purchased and given away, I don't know, certainly in the thousands of hats. So if you see a syld hat in the wild, we got a giant flag in front of our office which has the. For the listeners who aren't watching this on YouTube, it's a romping stomping bull, but with American flag hide coating. So we'll send you guys one.
- [58:10]
Justin Carboneau
Nice. I love it.
- [58:12]
Meb Faber
My wife was thrilled to get a investing in America bikini with these on. On the. Is a white bikini with various. Various places. So just nice. We've had fun designing some of the swag for it, for sure.
- [58:29]
Justin Carboneau
And for me, just lastly, I want to ask you, you know, and this might not be sort of a fair question, but would you say after looking at this, these 250 years in America, in this country, are you more or less optimistic about sort of investing in America sort of for the future?
- [58:51]
Meb Faber
We did a post, I believe it was during the pandemic. We used to do this kind of every few years, every five years, I need to update it, saying, hey, here's how I invest. Here's how as a CIO and founder of this company, how I invest my own money. And on the public side, certainly I invest in our own Funds. But on the private side, you do a lot of angel investing. And one of the reasons, and I detailed this in a blog post called Journey to 100x, but we've kind of talked about it the whole way, which is over 10 years now, which is crazy.
- [59:25]
Justin Carboneau
And
- [59:28]
Meb Faber
one of the benefits of angel investing is you get to see the future. So on our podcast, maybe four or five years ago, we did a series on investing in space startups because you started to see all of these companies all of a sudden having massive traction, success, growth, revenue in the space economy, which was formerly only these giant mega companies like a Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed, but partially because of SpaceX, you had this huge amount of companies that could start up and they didn't need 20 billion of startup capital, they needed 5 million. So part of it lets you look around the corner, but part of it is so optimistic, right? You know, public markets are tough. You get a bunch of geopolitical news, you turn on cnbc, it's just like negative, negative, negative, negative, negative, on and on. And so you're constantly dealing with stress and anxiety. Is my portfolio going to go down? What's the Fed going to do on and on? Stock's expensive. In angel investing, it's the exact opposite. It's just like people are delusional founders that all think they're going to succeed and change the world, doing really cool stuff. So I leaned heavily into that. In addition, there's some amazing tax benefits in the US with qsbs rules and regulations originally passed under Obama and expanded under Trump. So, you know, not, not a political thing. I think it's one of the most impactful legislations we've ever seen in the US as far as funding small young companies, I've now invested in over 400 startups. And that sounds crazy to most people. My check sizes tend to be small. But as a quant, there's something that I get that applies not just to startups, but to public markets too. And really anything in investing is this long tail of power laws where some of these companies and stocks, you know, generate a huge portion of returns, but you gotta have, you gotta own enough of them. And so one way in the public markets, of course, is through indexes, but in the private markets, it's a little harder to buy an index, so you just gotta buy a bunch of them. And so. But it's been a lot of fun. But to me that's like the most optimistic thing in the world because you see these little startups grow up to be a hundred million a billion, $10 billion companies that are the big giants of the future. So I think it's a fun balance. But yeah, I'm super optimistic. There is no disconnect in my mind to be able to say these two things and keep a straight face. I am super optimistic on the long term Prospects of the U.S. economy and stock market and I am hella bearish on how expensive the S&P 500 market cap weight is. There's plenty of other stocks I think that look fantastic in the US value small, mid 40, foreign, on and on. So the short term there may be a little pain at some point, but long term, you know, I'm, I'm a romping, stomping optimist in the us There's a great quote, there's a great quote that we end the book on from old JP Morgan and he said the man who is a bear on the future of the United States will always go broke. 1895,
- [62:39]
Matt Zigler
hang it in the Louvre as they say. As they say where people want to get the book, self publishing it. They want to order a fine coffee table. Where are we sending them to get the book? Say this, you know, time too.
- [62:49]
Meb Faber
Investing in America, the rise of a 250 year bull market. Amazon's got it. Barnes and Noble should have it. Your local bookstore, maybe it has. That's if you particularly want to buy bulk orders. But you guys can also email me listeners if you find yourself in the neighborhood. I'll sign one for you. But most and if your local bookstore doesn't have them, tell them say hey yo Tattered Cover. Buy some copies of Meb's book and they often will get them to buy
- [63:23]
Matt Zigler
a copy, maybe even offer them. Get them a hat on the side.
- [63:26]
Meb Faber
Yeah, there you go.
- [63:27]
Matt Zigler
Local bookstores love swag just as much as everybody else. Met people in a buggy on the Internet. Where, where should we send them?
- [63:34]
Meb Faber
My day job is managing ETFs at Cambria Funds which hits a Cambria. The company hits a 20 year anniversary this year. My goodness, I don't feel that old. So CambriaFunds.com profiles are 20 ETFs but you can find most of our free content on the blog at meb Favor podcast and favor show. Watch me pick fights on Twitter x @meb favorite and the other place good podcasts are found.
- [64:02]
Matt Zigler
Gotta love it. Meb, thanks so much for coming out. Super excited for this book. You really do want to check this thing out. Also keep tabs on the excess return substack. We're going to write some more stuff up on this very topic. Thanks for watching. Wherever you're watching or listening. Like Comment subscribe all the things below and we are out.
- [64:19]
Justin Carboneau
Thank you for tuning in to this episode. If you found this discussion interesting and valuable, please subscribe on your favorite audio platform on YouTube. You can also follow all the podcasts in the Excess Returns network@excessreturnspod.com if you have any feedback or questions, you can contact us@xsreturnspodmail.com no information on this podcast
- [64:39]
Meb Faber
should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed in the podcast may be holdings of the firms of the hosts
- [64:46]
Sponsor Announcer 3
you want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank. Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining al fresco or relaxing poolside? Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to 70% off during Wayfair's 4th of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus surprise flash deals. July 6th don't wait. Shop Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at Wayfair.com Wayfair every
- [65:15]
Meb Faber
style, every home hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile Now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment
- [65:37]
Sponsor Announcer 3
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy, see terms or their clients.