← EXPANDED Podcast by To Be Magnetic™
EXPANDED Podcast by To Be Magnetic™
Ep. 380 - Taking a Leap of Faith and Learning Surrender: The Process with Jenna Zoe
01:21:40
What could life look like if you had the tools and expansion to step through fear, stop playing small, and step fully into your potential? Today, we’re joined by Human Design expert and creator of the Align app Jenna Zoe for her first official Process episode. Jenna shares how Lacy was one of the few people to truly vision-hold for her and encourage her to step into her gifts, and how the TBM tools helped her ground, attune, and surrender to the universe’s will—reinforcing her faith that she was exactly where she was meant to be. Jenna reflects on completing the Money Challenge twice, unlocking more lightness, abundance, and the WHY in her career—along with profound realizations about love, her relationship with her parents, and multi-generational healing. Jenna’s story holds major expansion for anyone on the cusp of deeper fulfillment, self-acceptance, and true embodied authenticity. Find the complete show notes here -> https://tobemagnetic.com/expanded-podcast
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- [00:00]
A
I really, really, really believe that the ultimate manifestation is becoming a person you love being and someone you're proud of. What if I can really love being me? Because that's how I'm going to really love my life. If you take the risk of being more loving than you think is acceptable in any format, any dynamic, it does come back to you.
- [00:21]
B
Taking a leap of faith, really learning how to surrender and and not control your experience and understanding the magic in your purpose and authentic essence in this season of life Today we have back on Jenna Zo, the creator of my Human Design and the Align app, as well as the host of the Align podcast on for an extremely expansive, hopeful and joyous episode around stepping into your own power and taking that leap of faith on yourself. Jenna goes back and shares for the first time I've heard her story of launching her career in human design. How she went from working in a food catering business to closing that down and taking a leap of faith on herself to launch human design almost 10 years ago. Today so many people are in a transitional phase and so what is that leap of faith that the universe is pinging at your doorstep? How can you get some expansion on that process? And then we dive into Jenna's experience through the Money Challenge, what she manifested, how it transformed her relationship with her family and what she is taking through this concept of purpose, what she's working on in this season of life and really giving everyone a roadmap for how to see working with the energy of the new paradigm. At this time we have a very exciting announcement for you guys today. Podcast listeners only you get first access to our huge end of year sale. We are announcing it first here. So if you want to join the pathway membership, if you have been getting the ping to invest in yourself to spend spend this time with yourself especially during this holiday season to get intentional on what your big dreams and visions are. If you want the somatic and subconscious reprogramming and healing tools to nourish you this season, if you want to learn the how to manifest process, now is the time to join. It is our biggest sale of the year and you can access it in the show notes. We have have it linked on our website and we'll be announcing more fully next week but wanted to give our podcast listeners early access to this big sale before we kick off our end of year challenge which we talk a little bit about in this episode. But I will talk a lot more about next week on Friday's episode. We also launched our free book club this past week On Wednesday. You can watch the replay anytime. It's a three part series with Lacy and I where we are going through every single step of how to Manifest and you can follow along along with our book how to Manifest or you can follow along in the Pathway membership. With our how to Manifest workshop. We're really diving in deeper in each of the themes of this process. I know I'm going back in and writing my authentic code. Mine shifted a little bit this year which was really exciting to see and we're starting to get pings on crafting our list, finding our expanders, getting clear on our blocks, really setting the foundation of everything we need to enter into this end of year challenge. It'll be a 15 day challenge that'll really be nourishing us from every single angle, especially if we have that clarity of our authentic code before we jump into the challenge. So if you are getting the call to start this work with us, learn more about the method or you're a member, you've been a member forever and just want to craft your list and authentic code with us, highly recommend checking that out. If you're a TBM member, it's already in your pathway membership and if you want to join new, it's completely free. The link is in the show notes as well. And then next Friday we will be in Austin, Texas for the second installment of our speaking tour. This is where we're talking about the purpose concepts a lot more in depth. You get a chance to listen to the purpose and soul's essence di and not purpose in the way that we've ever talked about before and not in a rigid mindset way but more so how our soul wants to express breaths in this season. This is really helping us curate what is our North Star for this season. What is our dream life? How might it be even bigger and more meaningful and purpose led than we have ever dreamed before, especially going into this challenge. So if you want to connect with us in Austin, we still have tickets available and of course on December 6th we'll be in LA and we have tickets available for that as well. So many ways to connect this season, but I really just feel this call to be in community, having as many touch points with you guys and really walking alongside you through this journey because there are so many shifts, so many changes, test triggers. Life is coming at us so fast. How can we ground into something and really anchor into our truth in this season and make it the most magnetic holiday season yet? Okay, enjoy the episode. And now a word from our partners. You've heard me talk about Armor Colostrum for years now and that's because it continues to be one of my absolute go to's for supporting my immunity, gut health and hair and skin. Colostrum is the first nutrition all mammals receive at birth. Nature's original superfood, it contains everything our bodies need to thrive. Armor Colostrum is a premium physician founded concentrate that preserves over 400 bioactive nutrients in their purest form. Think protective antibodies, prebiotics, antioxidants, peptides and growth factors. It's basically the body's original source code for repair and regeneration. It fortifies your gut wall, helps with bloating and digestion, strengthens your immune barriers in the gut, sinuses, lungs and skin and helps balance blood sugar and metabolism for better energy. Colostrum bioactives even support hair growth and skin radiance by reactivating follicle stem cells and collagen production. Even elite athletes have used Colostrum for decades because it boosts endurance, lean muscle and cuts recovery time in half. For me, I've noticed significant benefits in my digestion, my bloating and my immunity response. Amara is sustainably sourced from grass fed cows on a family owned US dairy farm. Always calfed first so the newborns get what they need and they only utilize the surplus with tens of thousand thousands of five star reviews. I am not the only one who is obsessed and there is a reason you are seeing this product everywhere. You can try Armor colostrum and get 15% off your first order. Just go to tryarmara a r m r a.comtbm or use code tbmallcaps at checkout for 15% off your first order. And now onto the episode Tena. You are back on expanded in person this time.
- [07:38]
A
Welcome back. Thank you. I don't know how many is this? Three times? Four times?
- [07:42]
B
At least.
- [07:43]
A
Something like that. Anyway, I'm really grateful to be back. I love chatting to you.
- [07:47]
B
Oh my gosh. So we were dming about the money challenge which I had no idea you were such a diligent practitioner of the work and obviously our conversations were always talking about like Paradigm and this and the energetics and we'll get into all of that 100% because I know everyone's want to hear your take on things but what transformations do you feel like have been percolating for you this year?
- [08:16]
A
Oh my gosh, where do I even start? This year it's felt like it's been seven years. I really do feel that there hasn't been one Major through line. Because I think every time, I'm curious if you feel the same way, every time you feel like you've knock something on the head, a whole other layer kind of surfaces and reveals itself, has revealed itself. To me, the money challenge has been so amazing because it was really like a structured container to focus all of this energy that was swirling around and all this change that the universe was trying to make happen through me, to me, with other people in my life, that it just really superspread things for that short period of weeks. There was something so special as well about it being only 20 minutes a day where it felt like, oh, anyone can do this. And I feel like I got a lot of people in my life on board because of that, like, proposition. People who've never done TBM before. Like, so many people I know went into TBM through that challenge. So what happened for me is that my sister and I, we do TBM every day separately, and then we kind of talk about it. I mean, I've been doing. If I wasn't still doing it, I mean, Lacy was the one who told me to start doing Human design. When.
- [09:30]
B
Wow, did you know the story?
- [09:32]
A
So Lacy. That was everything. So Lacy. I was. I had a private session with Lacy, 2016 or 17, I want to say I still had a food business at the time. And I had a private session. I had one on one session with her when she was doing private clients. And then I forget, somehow along the way, I'd mention to her it just kind of came out that I was learning about this thing called Human Design. It wasn't a thing at the time, and it was just like a side obsession of mine. And she was like, wait, wait, wait, can you do my chart? And I'd only done, like, professionally and done anyone's charts. I was only doing them for, like, friends and family and everything. And then she's like, okay, let's trade. So I'll trade you a session for another session. And then she was one of the only two people that was like, you need to do this as a career.
- [10:14]
B
Wow.
- [10:15]
A
Yeah. So since then, I feel like I'm like one of the first, like, users of tbm. I remember when it was just on the website and it was just the first, like, how to manifest. And I've, like, through since the beginning, but I. It's the one thing I've, like, diligently stuck to since then.
- [10:33]
B
Wow.
- [10:34]
A
Yeah.
- [10:34]
B
Okay, wait. I have so many questions. So when I think of Human Design, I think of you. Like, you were Such the introduction and, like, blows my mind. Learning about that world and diving into that world and to think about, like, how many people you've impacted with your work and how much you share. I always think when I'm listening to your workshops in your app, I'm like, I feel like this is. As someone who works in the wellness and self help and personal development space, this is my medicine so I can show up best for my community. Not only are you impacting so many individuals, but how many individuals that also impact their own communities beyond that? So what? Even at that time, if you remember, there's so much about purpose coming through right now. How did you know what signs, glimmers, pings were you getting? And did you know it would get to be so big?
- [11:27]
A
Oh, my gosh. There's absolutely no way I would have ever been able to logically envisage where I'd ended up. Wow. And I think that's actually something that's so important and it's not like a one and done thing that only happens to you once in your life. Because I feel like I've gone through this so many times, and each time it still feels as scary as that time where all I knew at the time is I had a food business. I was relatively successful. But it just didn't feel like it was what I. It didn't give me the feeling that I was, like, knowing that I wanted to feel from the thing that was like, my thing.
- [12:00]
B
Right.
- [12:01]
A
And I know that I was just doing readings for people on the side and it was like just giving me absolute life. And I was only charging $85 for a session for people. And it wasn't even through a traditional booking session, nothing. And I just knew that I felt all this, like, light coming through me, and I just felt this excitement. And I just felt like I genuinely was depositing something in people that felt like something I would want to deposit. I think I always struggled with in my childhood. My pain point was, like, not understanding other humans and, like, not really understanding how this game of life worked. Do you know what I mean? I was, like, very confused by this whole, like, no one's given me the manual. So that was my medicine. They say that you should, like, do the thing that was like, the thing you were missing when you were a kid. So it was giving me life in that way. But I was so terrified to do it, Jessica. Because I remember being like, at the time, this is 10 years ago now.
- [12:52]
B
Yeah.
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A
Spirituality was not cool.
- [12:55]
B
Yeah.
- [12:55]
A
And I honestly thought this has zero career Prospects. Like, I honestly thought my highest. I've said this before, but, like, my highest aspiration would be, like, they'd wheel me out on the lottery with a wig and, like, the crystal ball. Like, it wasn't like, oh, I can see this, like, success happening. And at the same time, my brain and my ego was like, hold on a second. You've spent six years building this food business. You've got momentum. What if it just starts snowballing tomorrow? What if it takes off then, like, you're just about starting. Don't give up all those voices. So I really say that to just validate anyone who's overly logicizing the fact that we. I think when we're being our like. And I say this in a sweet way, like, when we're being spiritual brats, we, like, want the evidence it's gonna work out before it does. But the entry price that you pay is that you take the risk, even though no one guarantees you that it's gonna work out. Yes. So I honestly just got to a place. I was like, I can't afford to not do this anymore. And I would like to think that if it happened to me now, I would be wiser to get the clues sooner. But I think I was really struggling so much because I just was feeling like I wasn't as fulfilled or successful as I knew I wanted to be. And that's basically what made me just want to strip it all down and start from base one. And I didn't have an app. I didn't have audio courses. I didn't have anything. I was just doing readings.
- [14:11]
B
Wow. I mean, I think that's so huge for so many people because I've heard so much from our community. And we're actually. When we're recording this, we're about to do the New York stop for our speaking tour. But one of the things we're gonna talk about there, and this ping came through journaling this week of why people are having such a hard time leaving the thing that they know isn't aligned for the next thing is. Cause the thing that they have right now, a needs getting met, and they're not sure if the next thing, even though it feels good and makes them happy, is gonna be able to meet that need. And so it can be really scary to say, like, okay, I'm gonna get rid of this thing. And then I don't know if it's gonna fulfill my income or this or the success I want or whatever it is, but it is that leap of faith. And I think Anytime that I have had to make that decision, it's always from a. But like, everything else feels so right about this path that I'm being asked to walk. My brain can't compute that I wouldn't find a way to make it work because I'm like, but the universe wouldn't make this feel so good and so aligned and then nothing comes of it. I just don't believe. How did you feel making those steps?
- [15:20]
A
I was terrified and relieved at the same time. Relieved. Just like, okay, well, even if it doesn't turn into this other thing, and even if it doesn't, whatever, it's kind of that surrender thing where you're like the ultimate manifestation is the feeling. Right? So I just knew that the feeling of having a one hour session with someone and helping them feel seen was like a drug to me. It was like a life giving. It made me feel. It gave me that feeling of like, this is what makes life worth living.
- [15:46]
B
Yes.
- [15:47]
A
And then I think when you are tapped into that, it's not that, oh, the money just comes in, like, of course it does. But it's also that you have to cross a point at which you don't care as much about those external shiny carrots coming in anyway. And that's why I think it comes in over and over and over again. Because at every iteration of my life, my personal life, my business life, my relationships, my friendships, it's always that same way where I'm like, how do I put this in the Lord's Prayer? It says, thy will be done. It's not about what I want anymore. Even the most noble sounding, even the most benefic, beautiful intention, one that is so spiritual still my will. And so I have to give up my ideas of what I think is good for the world or what the medicine is or the thing and all the narratives. And it's just like, all right, well, clearly I've gotten myself into a right or pickle and over to you, you.
- [16:36]
B
Know what I mean? And I think you're naming something so important because oftentimes when people make that jump, if they don't see the immediate reward, the immediate gratification, the monetary, the following, the success, whatever they deem success as. They're like, well, I messed up or oh, well, I must, they start backpedaling or they try to shift and do something different. And I almost see that chapter of like, the external is quiet for a minute because it's fortifying your like, commitment to that correct path. It's like you can have both you can have that joy. You can live your purpose and you can have your needs met, but you can't do it to have your needs met. You almost have to be on the path, be in service, and then your needs will come. How long into that journey did you start seeing the two worlds collide?
- [17:32]
A
So I. I was pretty lucky that time around because my wait list grew to a year and a half, like, straight away, like, it just absolutely blew up. So I was quote, unquote lucky. Because the thing is, is everyone thinks that they want, like, the viral moment, but it's not always the most sustainable. Everything has a challenge, right? Everything has something you have to contend with. So immediately, even though I had momentum, there was a lot of, like, figuring out then how to close down my existing business. There was a lot of, well, what do I do? How do I service these people? How do I get my booking system? How do I not burn out doing. Trying to figure out so many people in a day? And I want to serve more and how do I. All those things. So I think there's a massive relief in knowing that everything good that you want has. And not even as, like, a punishment, but just as a like, because there's duality. There's a lesson that is embedded in everything that is here to help you grow as human being. And that's just not because you're getting it wrong. It's not because you're stupid. It's not because of anything. It's just because, like, that's the journey that we're ultimately chasing. And so my stuff is always going to be my stuff. You and I could be going into the same career and we would be learning different things in it depending on, like, what our self is. So you can't run from your cosmic curriculum. You can have 10 homes or you can have a cardboard box on the street, and you will still feel. You're still going to bump up against abandonment or rejection or whatever your things are that you have to find. So I think somehow separating the way that your path looks with the lessons that you have to encounter along the way, because they're actually not as embedded as we think that they are, the universe is just going to use the physical pieces to make it very obvious until you clock it. So for me, I still had a lot of stuff to understand because I think people are afraid if everyone else is doing it. But also there's something scary about no one else doing it too. And there's different types of things that you have to face along the way.
- [19:30]
B
So.
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A
And Then I was like, okay, well, this isn't scalable. Like, this isn't sustainable for me. And then I started doing audio, and then I started. And then in lockdown, I had the gift of being able to have all this time in the world. And then I built the software, the chart generation software, and then after that, built the app. But my challenges have actually been completely honest with you, being about the fact that I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. And so for me, it was always really praised to not go to college, to scrap around, start your own thing. So that stuff actually came easy to me. The phase that I'm in now, which is one of the things that the money challenge kind of brought up for me was like, this became a business without me really being a business woman. But I started seeing myself as a businesswoman and trying to be more kind of like, strategic or managing of a team or all those things that kind of come along the way that happen accidentally, that wasn't really part of my authentic code from day one. So sometimes success, I think, keeps you in patterns that longer than you actually need to be because of the world praising you for being those certain things that actually aren't you.
- [20:37]
B
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so talk a little bit about that. So you were super expanded in this entrepreneurial journey, right? Like, your family was praising that. What were the things that felt authentic to you that you felt like you weren't getting the praise for or you didn't have expansion in?
- [20:53]
A
It's funny, I think expansion is one of the ones I think, especially when it comes to work anyway. I find that the easy piece. And I don't think I've ever needed as much expansion because I'm always like, oh, yeah, I'm a triple Aquarius. I'm like, it can be done. Anything's possible. No one's done it before. It doesn't matter. But I did feel like it wasn't enough to just be creative. And I never saw myself as a creative person. I always saw myself as a business person.
- [21:22]
B
Interesting.
- [21:22]
A
But words is my. One of my authentic codes. And so that has been a lot of, like, my. I guess re expansion is like, can I have a life that I want without showing up in my work in a certain way that I think is like, the way I've always seen myself. It's so embedded in me now that I don't get the praise from fam. I get the praise from myself. People talk about that enough. Is like, how it's also who you have to be for Yourself that you're like still living up to. It's like so internalized and I've just always thought it became part of the furniture. I just always thought I was that way until really recently, until after that money challenge. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is a costume that I learned really well to keep holding. But when I put my hand on my heart and when I'm in those DI's, I do authentic self di all the time. It's such a go to for me and it never, that's never part of the authentic self. So something's up here.
- [22:17]
B
Yeah, I love words. What a cool, authentic code one, which makes so much sense for you too, because you're channeling, you're sharing your gift of speaking and being able to put words to things and make it make sense for people. I'm wondering too, and it's so interesting. Yes, I a hundred percent see you as a businesswoman, a successful businesswoman, but I also so much see you as an artist, but I also very much identify with being an artist of creative. So maybe that's me seeing it in you. You see that reflection as well. What things were coming up for you, was it pulling back that scaffolding, that identity of like, okay, what would it look like? What would it mean for me to show up and lean more in this creative side?
- [22:59]
A
So I'm trying to think back to that. So I did the money challenge twice. I don't know if I told you that.
- [23:02]
B
Love. So good.
- [23:04]
A
So the first time I did the money challenge, it was all about actually understanding that wanting money for money's sake because of what your unconscious assumptions of the life it's going to give you is very different than actually knowing what truly makes you happy in this world. Because I think we live in a world that is so just always got to go to the next thing, always got to grow, always got a next on the ladder is the way. And it really made me understand, like, what is it that I need to be happy? Because it's very clear if you've done the money challenge that it's actually not about money. It's about that feeling of abundance. And so having those exercises help me reframe what I actually want it to look like and what I want it all for was so helpful to me because it helped me actually just give time a bit to designing my dream life, which I because you just kind of take this cookie cutter thing of like, I'll just always try to get more, but then you're like, hold on A second. If I look back in five years and I've just spent time on this, like, hamster wheel, what do I actually want to use it for? And I actually do think I'm curious to know your thoughts on this, But I think a lot of us don't actually want as much physical stuff, especially not now. All I wanted to do after that money challenge was, like, get rid of stuff, edit my wardrobe. Like, I feel so much more abundance having so much less, because I'm like, the abundance is, like, in the thoughtfulness, how much love I pour into this jumper that I'm wearing, and, like, you know, the way that I walk in my day and how much I love, like, being me. And that was the first round for the money challenge. And then through that lens, I just understood my work life so differently. Because, yes, it is about being in service, but also it's supposed to be that every soul is in charge of advocating for their own happiness, because we would live in a world where it would be so much less codependent, it would be so much less controlling and manipulating of other people if we knew that everyone has it in them to advocate their own happiness. And so I started to think for myself, okay, but what do I get out of this? And what about treating myself like a precious soul that I care about being in service to? And it wasn't something that I really thought about. I've thought about. I've heard it before as a concept, but I really sat with it and thought, hold on a second. I need to make sure that I'm making me really happy too, because that's going to bleed into the quality of the work. So that was round one.
- [25:24]
B
I mean, this is. This is so important to name that piece of really understanding what are the things that are going to make our lives fulfilling, meaningful, joyous. And it is so much of that presence and being in that present moment. And very often it. You're not thinking about all this stuff, but when we think about manifestation, it's always like the shiny thing, the this, the success.
- [25:48]
A
It's.
- [25:48]
B
It always comes out like a goal before you even have time to register in your body, if you actually even want that or you feel like that is just the expected next step and understanding. Like, actually, my life could be so much more peaceful and joyous if I maintain at this level or if I operate at this level. And it doesn't mean you can't innovate and grow in different ways, but it's just. Even you think about the business of it all when Someone goes from an independent contractor giving their services to a company, now they have employees, let's say they want to scale again, and now they're in a mega company. The pressures grow exponentially with each layer you grow. So is it that you love being around a big company and that's pushing you, or is it that you think in order for your company to be meaningful, that it needs to be giant? You know, like even using that as an example. And someone could put home, career, whatever else in there. But I think naming that and getting really clear on for ourselves, especially in this year of stripping, everything that is not the truth is going to get removed.
- [26:51]
A
Yeah.
- [26:52]
B
Whether we make that jump or not, I feel like we're really in that time. And so it's really important, I think, for people to have that moment. And we're really trying to help guide people through it with the tour and with the end of year challenge, but, like, getting so clear on what is that vision for you, and then go towards that feeling, that energy versus I think this external thing is gonna get me that feeling. But, like, chase the feeling first a hundred percent.
- [27:20]
A
And that's actually why I like the dream life di so much, because it helps you actually ground it into the quality of your life is actually just like the. And so a lot of people listening probably already know that maybe they don't want to scale their business to like a $200 million company valuation, but there's tiny little things you can do in the meantime. Like, I was listening to someone talk the other day who's in this space. I didn't know him very well, but he was talking about how he does these events. And he was like, oh, the obvious natural thing to do is like, roll people into a coaching program afterwards. And I was like, well, do you like that, though? And he was like, no, not really. But so. And so this other person told me that I should be doing that, and I was like, like. But at the end of the day, like, that's not gonna lead you to happiness. So where on earth do we get this idea as humans that, like, if I do something that's not making me happy in the moment, I'll be happy when I do that loads of times over and over again. And also, the universe doesn't want you to keep pushing and opening doors that don't make you happy, because the happiness is the tell.
- [28:16]
B
Right. So.
- [28:17]
A
And I've said this to other people so many times where we have our own blind spots where it's like, if you could wave a Magic wand and have it work out what's the way that you secretly wish to be doing it? Because that's going to be the thing that actually elevates your own energy and that bleeds into the thing you're doing. So doing even these, like, micro tweaks. Because I think a lot of people listening are in this, like, advanced level where they kind of already know what they want, but it's like you keep on doing it even more. Like, do you want to wake up a little bit later? Do you want to have more team calls? Less team calls, more frequent? Do you only want to do an hour instead of two hours and do it twice a week instead of once a week? Like, all of these questions, we get to scrap the template now and really start to refine it. And those things make you so delighted to just, like, be doing life your own way. So that's the main takeaway, I would say, I got from the first round of the money challenge is this, like, micro thing where you think, oh, well, of course I'm doing what makes me happy. Of course I'm only doing it for my own self. Of course I'm doing life my way. Like, anyone else would have looked at me and said, yeah, you're a projector. You're doing it aligned. You're only working two to three hours a day. And so I thought that's where you stop. But then the money challenge was like, oh, no. There's a whole other level of refinement that you can do and keep on doing to even unsee yourself even more as a businesswoman than you ever. You already thought that you weren't. But now, like, what's the other layer that's, like, beneath that and beneath that, which is why it never stops, you know?
- [29:31]
B
Yes. But I mean, that's kind of the beauty of it, too, is, like, every chapter, every next season, there's a new layer to move through, and you're both enamored and also humbled every time you go through it. But I. I love that. And you talk about that on. On your app, too. Like, the micro changes, the micro identities, the micro pieces of self that you're like, what if I didn't do that or do it in that way? And we've been trying to bring that to the team, too, where I just had a meeting with one of our marketing people. She's like, okay, what are you doing that, like, is draining you? And I'm like, emails. I want to stop looking over all the emails. Like, it feels like my logistic brain can do it. And the perfectionism is like, make sure all the links work. Make sure, blah, blah, blah. But, like, after I'm done approving and looking at everything, I'm like, oh, I really wish I could just, like, go film some content right now. Like, that's what my heart is like. We could talk about TBM like this and make this. Like, that is what my heart is singing to make more space for. So even in something where you do feel aligned, it's like, what are those little tiny things that you're like, okay, who really loves emails? Who would like to take this task?
- [30:38]
A
And you know what's weird is that I do this with my whole team now. I really. I try as much as possible, unless it absolutely has to be done. I'm like, do you want to do it? Make it your own? Because a win for one person, it's aligned. It's. Everyone else is more aligned too. And also, it's not necessarily that you have to give something else to someone else, even though sometimes that does happen and they're happy to have it. But also sometimes, especially now, I feel like the need for it to be done at all can just disappear. And that has happened countless times. I'm like, oh, all of a sudden there's like an innovation or some new 2.0 version or something where, like, we don't need to do that anymore. Like, it's just about being open to everyone, deserving more ease and levity rather than like, oh, I deserve it. That means someone else has got to have it instead. Because that's the old paradigm that's like, win, lose. Whereas now it's like, ooh, everyone is a win, win. If I just. I want myself to be free of heavy things that feel heavy to me. So, of course, therefore, I would want someone else and everyone else in the world to also be free of that too. But I can't believe that for everyone else if I don't believe it for myself.
- [31:38]
B
Yes, yes. Leading the way to. With. With you being the center point. Like, if you can do it and you can embody it, then that can brush off on everyone else around you too.
- [31:46]
A
And you're the practice ground for the humanity that you want to see. You know, you've got to give something to yourself if you. If you really believe that you want to live in a human race where you wish that for everybody, you are the practice ground.
- [31:58]
B
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- [36:29]
A
So the first time I did it was just my sister and I, and then we were like, this is absolutely unbelievable. And we were just about to go on holiday with my parents and to backtrack a little bit. Ten, 15 years ago, when I first started on my spiritual journey, it was. I was keeping it so secret. I would go to the Kabbalah center and make up a lie every single, every single Wednesday about where I was going, because it was that unusual and taboo and everyone thought it was a cult back then. And those were the Madonna days with the red string and the whole thing. And I grew up in a family where even more, especially because we're English, that would have been, like, so judged and contra to everything. I mean, I felt like such an outcast. And I didn't tell anyone. I mean, I brought all my friends with me, but no one in my family knew. And a lot of people can relate to the fact that you grow up not having parents that you, you know, you just wish you had different kinds of parents, more connected, more Loving that. Just, I don't think that's common in that generation. And we are the people to kind of bring that to the ancestral soup that we're like adding onto all the time. Yeah, but I remember first learning about Kabbalah and this is not exclusive to them about choosing your parents and whatever. And there was a lot of dreams I think you get to have, and then me having that dream about, like, the parents. I wish I had the connection that I wish I had with them. I fully, fully grieved it, Jessica. Like, I remember being like, listen, this is something that it goes in the acceptance pile. Like, this is, you accept it and you know it's what God wanted for you and there's a reason for it and you just put it to bed and you accept them and you're not going to have as close of a relationship with them as you want and they're not going to be the way you want them to be. They just are who they are, whatever. So I fully grieved it and I just had made complete peace with it. And then about two years ago, through a lot of rock bottoms that had nothing to do with me or them, completely out of their control, their whole lives changed. And as a result, both my parents have been on their own spiritual journeys that had nothing to do with me. Not pushed on by me at all. Like, completely their own thing. And they were getting there in their own way. And they, of course your spiritual ego goes well, they should learn and they should do it this way. And they're getting it wrong. So that's been a really good practice for me too, especially being a projector, like when I'm not invited. And I still, I still contend with this somewhere. It's like, if I'm not invited, I haven't been asked. I keep stump. So we were going on holiday with them. We have a week in the summer where we were going to go see them. And my sister being a manifesto was like, we've got to do this with them. They're going to love it. So she puts in the group and we end up being on holiday in Greece and going through this money challenge together every single day at lunch, doing the journal prompts together.
- [39:20]
B
Oh, my God, I love this.
- [39:22]
A
It was insane. And I'll tell you the crazy part because obviously seasoned TBMers know also the thing about the money challenge is that love and money are connected. I think one of my big shells I'd picked up around money was hyper independence, like not needing anybody. Because I grew up in a family where all the men were entrepreneurs but all the women kind of depended on the men. And no women ever worked or made their own money in any of the sides of my family line. I was the first one. So it was always something I dreamed of having my own office and trotting around in six inch heels and making my own money and all this stuff. But I realized it really blocked me from love and connection in all forms. Like receiving love and connection in all forms. So the first money challenge actually teed me up for the second one. Because what I got as a result of of sharing with my parents in such a deep way was receiving things that I thought they would never have said to me before. Reflections that they told me things I wish they would have said to me. Such corrective experiences. But real life, you know how in the DI's it's like the magnetic parents, what you wish they had said to you. Like that was happening to both of us, me and my sister, and we were like, how on earth is this happening? And not prompted by anything. But I'm like, how does my mom see this? About like, I thought she never saw this. Like, it's crazy. And then the second amazing layer about that was getting to see like, wow. My patterns, I think are so just mine and no one else can see them. And yet I'm now also telling my mom, like, you don't have to be this way and you got it from your dad and it's okay. And so me kind of saying healing words to her was also like me telling myself those lessons that I got from her and us reaffirming those things to each other that we share was truly like, like unbelievable. And so, and I say this to my sister now all the time. I'm like, of course, life is so wonderful. There's always new adventures to get and there's always everything else now is just extra. But to have learned, even just with one person, that true thing I think we're all here for, which is like a deep love and connection and radical acceptance and like really championing the other without needing anything yourself to feel that kind of love.
- [41:30]
B
Yeah.
- [41:31]
A
I mean, no amount of money, fame, validation, things. I think that's what we're looking for under all those successes and things anyway. And so I have to remind myself now that all the time is that like, I promise you, if you take the risk of being more loving than you think is acceptable in any format, any dynamic, it does come back to you. I know that to be beyond true. Even with people who I'm less connected to. If I go first, it opens up the amount of, like, life giving. Juicy, kind of like, oh, we get this, like, wink with each other where we're in on the cosmic joke of life because we're not just both running on automatic pilot. Like, I've winked at you and you've winked back at me, and we've kind of had that glimpse behind the curtain for a second without really exchanging words. So, funny enough, the money challenge, the most important thing it gave me was like, real, proper feeling of, like, a template for good connection and love that I didn't. I genuinely put it to bed.
- [42:28]
B
It literally gets me emotional listening to that, because I think that's something that so many people want and crave. And I love the way that it unfolded for you too, where it wasn't this, okay, you have to do this and let's sit down. And mom, won't you admit this? And dad, won't you? You know, like, you weren't forcing it. You were really working on opening up and feeling the love more, receiving the love more, just working on yourself. I think the fact that you had grieved and accepted there was less of a I need something from them. And I think if you don't really feel all that grief and acceptance, sometimes they do give you those small moments of connection, but it's almost like it's blinded by all the things that. That you haven't accepted about them yet. So at least I know I. I have struggled with that where it's like, oh, wait, that moment was that thing I was looking for. But I'm. I can't even. I can't even let it sit in because I still have more to release on it. And so I think the fact that you really, really just kept showing up to that grief and that acceptance allowed this crack to open. But also, kudos to your parents for showing up and doing this and being on their own journey. And I mean, you can think about the universe in so many different ways. But, like, if we are the center of our own movies and stories and this is. I get this from you. If we are that character, of course when we are doing that work, our outside world is going to reflect that. And so now parents that you thought would never change, they'd be stuck in their ways forever. That was it. Done. The door is closed. I don't need anything from them. Now you can actually have this crazy corrective experience hearing the words and the validation. I'm curious if you've had this happen, because I had this moment with my dad, actually, where he messaged me. I just had this vision when I was a kid, and maybe partially the reason I wanted to go into film and tv, because I always used to watch movies with my dad, was to have my name in the credits and that he could see it and be so proud of me. And he watched some of the shows I did where my name was in the credits, and it was cool. But when I've been at TBM and he's, like. Listened to podcasts, and he's like, I'm really impressed with the work that you're doing. Like, this is so not his world. Like, he is not a spiritual person at all. Like, he just. He believes that we're like, one with the planets and the science and the nature and all of that is spiritual, but he doesn't know that yet. Anyways. Having him have that moment of reflection about my career that I thought he would never accept or understand was, like, one of those wow moments. And I had to take a moment to, like, take it in. But simultaneously, I almost, like, didn't need it anymore. Did you have that?
- [45:21]
A
100%. I didn't need it. From a place of lack, it was, even if no one thinks I'm doing something great or even if no one else agrees that what I'm doing matters, or all that matters is making your own soul happy and fulfilling on what you said you would do for this soul and looking after that contract, like, between you and the universe, like, am I doing what's right? Like, I think about this all the time where I don't want to get to the other side and be like, oh, my God, I completely missed the momo. Please let me go back and do it. And so I think you're right. Like, you have to get to that place where you're like, it doesn't actually matter and it's not measurable on the outside. Would I rather have done a soul journey so well? Even if in my lifetime, no one loved me for it, no one noticed me for it. I thought I was crazy the entire time, but it. It felt like I was doing the right thing. That's all that matters. Can you be that brave to be like, even if I go without all the things, can I be that fine? The closer you can get to that, and I'm nowhere near there. But that's, to me, like, spiritual bravery. Like, that's what I look up to is like, even if everyone disagreed, even if the other 8 billion people in the world were being blue, could I still Be pink. Because I knew just pink was right for me. Not for everyone, but just for me. Could I be that brave? Like, I really aspire to be that way. And then, like, everything else is just.
- [46:40]
B
Like a nice to have, you know? And I think this goes back to some of those inner child development phases of when we're young and we're infants, we literally need to rely on our parents for survival. But it's almost like that moment when you realize it's really you and you. It's you and the universe, and you actually don't need to rely on anyone. Not the relationship, not the career, not the home, not the parents, not the kids. It's you and the universe. It's almost like it breaks the remembrance of your infancy that you need to rely on someone else for survival. And in doing that, it actually allows us to love more purely because we're not doing it from a. I need you to love me, so I'm surviving. It's. I actually don't need you to love me. I'm going to be here loving myself and I love you, and that's it. And then you wind up getting the love you want in return, too. So true.
- [47:35]
A
And only because, like, the universe has to reflect that back to you. But it's such a. Like, it's just. Oh, wow, great. Thank you. I'll take it. Like, whenever you get it, you're just, like, tickled by it and it's great. And then you move on. And I say that because it's not like, my parents are like, perfect parents now, and they're behaving exactly the way I wanted. So I cheated the system. There's no cheating the system. You know what I mean? And you can't fake this. Oh, I feel whole and complete. And I don't need them because they're. There's other layers now where I'm like, oh, I didn't realize I still need them to behave this way. Or I still don't like when they say that. Or they gave me this one glimmer that they are still the people that they used to be 15 years ago. Surprise, surprise. Obviously they're still the same people. So there's a humanness that I don't think we try to. There's so much stuff that we try to tell ourselves. If we just do this, we can transcend the curriculum, like, the very human side of this thing. And you have so much more peace when you realize you. It's just cute to be human. It's not like. Cause you're flawed. Cause other people don't have fears. Cause other people don't have irritations. Cause there's not challenges that come to everyone. It's just like, yeah, there's. Every time you're crossing a threshold, there's fear. That's just how this game works. Every time you tell yourself a narrative that everything's amazing now, you get a small crumb in there that's like a little fly in the ointment and you get annoyed. And that's also sweet. There's a levity to understanding that there is no escaping that kind of the human, like the sort of web of how human emotions sort of work. As long as we have a physical body as well. And then you just get better at dancing with them. I think that's the goal is not that you can just take a risk ever without having fear. Like, of course Taylor Swift has fear on her album. If it's gonna do as well as the previous one. Everyone has. That's just a normal part of how the mechanism works. No matter who you are, how shiny your life is, how many other people envy you, like, that doesn't make any of that go away.
- [49:23]
B
I think that's kind of the most humbling and unifying thing about being a human, is that we all chase whatever we deem as something on a pedestal above us or the next echelon. And we're not actually grasping that. Maybe their circumstances look different, but their challenges, how they feel, their emotional processing is very, very similar. And that's not to say that certain people are not at financial and other disadvantages. But I think especially when you're trying to take someone off a pedestal and realize we're all in this human dance together. And actually all that matters is that that source, connection, like, what's on your heart, what's in your purpose, what's calling to you, that is going to be your roadmap to fulfillment. Not watching what XYZ successful person did, you're gonna wind up copying them. You're not on their timeline. You're not. Like, the more we can be the reader of our own, the pattern reader of our own cycles, of our own feelings. There's just so much within us as the individual. I almost wanna. It's funny, we're in New York and I'm thinking back to living here in my twenties and how much I kept looking to other people to be like, how am I supposed to live? Like, should I be getting, like, smoothies on the weekends? Or like, are we doing SoulCycle now? Or like, Do. Do I like to go out and party? I think I kind of wanna stay home, but everyone's going out, so maybe I should go out. Like, I was so looking for someone else to show me. Like, these are the steps to do to live your happy life. And I just want to shake her and be like, what do you like doing? Like, that's actually the roadmap. And so much of it was like, well, I liked walking around the city by myself, but I didn't think that was, like, cool enough or, like, fun enough. Like, I needed to do something else. That was literally the best medicine.
- [51:05]
A
Yeah. But I think that's the thing is that. That when we try to ask ourselves, like, what we want out of life or what our purpose is, we try to come up with the Instagram platitude of, my purpose is to serve other women. And maybe that's what you're gonna end up doing. But it really starts with grounding it into, like, okay, well, I like walks, I don't like partying. And then those little things, they do kind of lead you to the stuff. And I really do feel like the sort of real gift is training yourself to have eyes to see no matter what challenge you're going through. Like, let's say, for example, now if my mom still shows me a glimmer of, like, how, you know, her not self shows up, which I have my own not self too. I have my own patterns. I'm like, oh, this is teaching me acceptance, or this is gifting me to learn acceptance in a deeper way, or to understand her more, or to love her anyway, or any of those things. So I've won because I've understood the gift that's trying to be deposited instead of fight what I think is, like, good and bad. And so I think when you understand that everything can be seen through a lens of it's this, that means it's good. That means I need to respond this way. Like, that whole, like, kind of logical, 3D battling 3D type of situation. Or you're like, in on the cosmic joke where you're like, life is just giving me all this, like, spiritual mastery all the time, and how lucky am I? That's what I think the real winning is.
- [52:26]
B
It's so interesting because as you were saying that I kept getting this phrase in my head that was like, we think everyone is supposed to make our life easier, and we're the only ones who can make our life easier. And so we're looking to the dynamic with the parent to be like, why Aren't you making my life easier? We're looking to the career, like, why aren't you doing this to make my life easier? And that is sourcing that need from all these external things. And it's like, it's not about making it easier. You make it easier by how you contextualize how this is showing up for you. So doing exactly what you're doing, saying, like, okay, this is part of the lesson. Like, okay, I'm learning this here. That's how you make it easier. You don't make it easier assuming it's going to be easy, because it's not. We have to accept that's just not part of the experience.
- [53:14]
A
Yeah, this is a game, and I think you can understand it. I remember feeling it from one level before where I was like, oh, it's good to learn acceptance. So this is good. Whereas now it's such a visceral thing, which is so different, where I'm like, oh, my gosh. I really, really, really believe that the ultimate manifestation is becoming a person you love being and someone you're proud of. And so I. It's a felt thing now where I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm gonna like being in this body so much more if I get to practice and being the next level version of me than I was before. And it does require a bit of heavy lifting, because if I'm lazy, I'll just, like, rest on my old laurels because I liked her enough. What if I can really love being me because that's how I'm going to really love my life. It's not by getting this and creating that and whatever. It's like being free of those limiting beliefs. It's not needing to have so much lack from your old inner child stuff that you're constantly needing the outside world to fulfill. Even spiritual stuff can be used for those from those, like, filling holes, you know? Whereas, like, when you constantly try to source from within because of. Of doing this work, that, you know what makes me keep coming back to tbm, that's the real, like, you move through the world genuinely being able to be a source of giving, not because you're trying to be of service to get something back to, like, hack the system.
- [54:36]
B
It's so funny. On tour, they're gonna get to hear our soul's essence and purpose. Di. And one of the lines that, when we were recording it, Lacy's like, I feel like we need to add one more line in about what do we feel like we have them call up what they. What whisperings are coming through about their purpose in this season, how they're supposed to show up and interact. And one of the things, the channeling she added in there was from the purest place, without expectation. How do you feel like you're being called to do that? That's not like a, I do this, and I get that from the purest energy. And I think that concept of purpose being, it's not a job title, it's not a success, it's not a. A check mark of this. It's really. At least, I'm curious how you see it. But how I see it in this season is that it is how we show up and the energy that we're putting out in the world, like, that's really it.
- [55:30]
A
Yeah. And it doesn't matter what your thing is. What determines if you're going to be successful in all ways is how well you do your thing. Like, your assignment can be taken to the stars if you become a person who knows that they are made of the divine and they can take anything to the stars if they double down on that one thing and stop getting distracted by other nicer sounding purposes and things. If my thing was making lamps, I know what I could do. It makes me think of that Friends episode where one of them puts the other one in charge of cups and ice and then they make the whole party. They make so many fun things out there of cups. Then they make the fun things out of ice. Because it started off being like, oh, you're not really that responsible, so I'll put you in charge of something small. But she makes like snow cones and she colors them. And then there's like chandeliers made out of cups. Like fake paper, red cups. It's like, it's that. It's how much you trust that it's not about. You need the special title. It's like you. You cultivate your own specialness in your craft every single day. And it's not a glamorous path and it's adding more water to the bucket every single day. And anyone who you see as successful does the same thing. Sure. Like, you get the snippet at the end or you get the trust up version of something that isn't actually that. And it just is an illusion, really. We see too much of that at the moment. But it's actually the chopping wood and the carrying water that transforms you into a person who can bring your specialness into whatever your funnel, your vessel, your thing is. So it's these things that we often don't even notice that are made from excellence. And someone is having an incredible. Someone had to have an incredible self transformation to bring that into the world. You know, like, think about something so random. Like, you know, those shoots that you have to like, walk down to get onto the airplane? Like, they're everywhere. And it's the same company that makes all of them and they're an incredible family, but no one notices. But they've. Obviously they are, like doing something incredible in the world. Right?
- [57:25]
B
Everyone uses it every day.
- [57:27]
A
Yeah.
- [57:27]
B
Wow.
- [57:28]
A
So it's not just the person that has like the perfect blowout with the perfect words. And it's a.
- [57:32]
B
Like, it's.
- [57:32]
A
There's so many more things where you can have this incredible creativity and ideas and channel your own specialness, your contribution to this world in the way that you're supposed to. But can you be okay with not needing to shout about what it is from the rooftops before you devote yourself to doing it?
- [57:50]
B
So good? I feel like this is the. This is a season, this is the calling of it. So many people are getting pushed to this. And whether that's even like being a parent or being a loving neighbor or, you know, like, how. How is your energy impacting those around you and not so I can impact them more positively so my life gets better. But literally, because I just love living this way from that genuine space. And also I think about, like, how every industry is so creative to make those shoots that. That carry you to the airport. Like, someone had to be like, wow, I'm really interested. And like, how is this gonna function? And like, can we make it swivel when we have to change the airport? Like, it. It takes someone being really curious to jump on that path and, like, go down that rabbit hole. And I think, you know, if you look at mass production and so many different things, is there that person in there who cares about it? Or have we strayed so far away from it? And as a collective, if we all got back to where we're so curious and joyous and like, we wanna crack the code. Okay, let's make the knobs with rectangles so they can rest their thumbs on it. It's easier to turn. Like someone who's thinking about all the ways to make the clock better or the microphone better. Like, that will make such a beautiful world with that attention and joyous detail.
- [59:12]
A
Yeah. Because otherwise everything becomes stale and crusty wherever the innovation has stopped. And like you said that we feel passion and it's in all the materials in this World, it's in all the matter. It's. It's like when it has been infused with someone's fascination, it's like, oh my God. It's just a better physical world that we're like, inhabiting.
- [59:29]
B
So great. It's so funny. The hotel that Lacy and I are staying at, the first thing I noticed was the rugs. I was like, these rugs are amazing. And I'm like touching the rug and I'm like looking at it and I'm like, there has to be something about these rugs online. And I look it up and there was an article about it and the interior designers who did the hotel got hand custom cut rugs spaced for the entire place. And I was like, I have to find out where these are from. So now I'm like, down this rabbit hole of this rug. But, like, rugs aren't my thing. That's not my like, purpose or anything. But I can appreciate it so much more because it was someone's thing, like they did care about it that much. What a fun experiment that I get to go look at these rugs, you know, and enjoy them so much. And it's a rug in a hotel room.
- [60:11]
A
Yeah. And that's what's so special, is like there's zero of you because you're so in your own lane. There's zero of you that needs to feel like you then need to become a rug.
- [60:20]
B
Yeah.
- [60:21]
A
But you also then just get to vicariously delight in someone else's lane that has produced fruits that are so different to yours. And then there's like more for everyone. Think about. We're just like amplifying and multiplying and it's so fun.
- [60:33]
B
So good. You've heard us talk about our pathway membership, but what actually is it? It is an all access membership where you can get every single workshop that we've ever created. All of our deep imaginings, which are our reprogramming audios to help you manifest. You can access it on the desktop or in the TBM app on your phone directly. We, of course have our foundational workshops, such as our how to Manifest workshop, which takes you step by step through this neural manifestation process to actually unblock the expand and take align action to connect with their manifestations. Our how to be magnetic workshop, our inner child and shadow workshops. And then of course, we have a workshop. If you are in a rut, if you're in a rock bottom, if you're an up level, perhaps you need to set boundaries. Maybe you want to focus specifically on the block of money or love it is all in there. And then twice a year as a community we gather for our challenges. Our challenges are one of the most effective parts of the process because you get accountability. It is really a hand handheld experience in how to work through whatever the theme of that year's challenge is. And now to my absolute favorite part of our membership, which I think in and of itself would be worth the entire weight of the membership if we just had this alone. Our Deep Imagining Library. This Library encompasses over 60 neural reprogramming audio tracks. They're self hypnosis tracks that will really support you in any step of this journey. If you're needing calming nervous system regulation, unblocking with a specific test or trigger, going through a difficult time processing a big emotion, or maybe you just want reinforcing how to reinforce those neural pathways of confidence, abundance, self worth, deservingness and connection with your dream life. And not only that, if you go to the app we just launched Deep Imagining Playlist where we're grouping different themes of DIS together. So no matter what you're going through, you have something for you. You. And we're constantly dropping new playlists as well as brand new deep imaginings. And if you need more support in your process, you can go to our brand new video series Channelings with Lacy where she touches on the exact energetics that are going on right now in manifestation and how it may apply to your life. So obviously I am a huge fan of this membership. The peace of mind I get from being able to have all the tools I need at my disposal. No matter where I'm at with my life, if shit's hitting the fan, if I'm feeling feeling dysregulated, if I'm needing to come back to my center, if I'm needing to brainstorm or daydream or connect with what my vision for my future is, every single tool is in there to support me. And don't just take my word for it. We have thousands of testimonials of people who have had incredible success stories with these tools. So take the guesswork out of your manifestation process and get real tools that are going to give you real results. And right now we are launching our biggest sale of the season. Our big end of year sale is officially live. Get in on the pathway membership for the lowest prices. Start manifesting your dream life, Crafting your list, Unblocking all of the limiting beliefs, fears, self sabotaging behaviors that are standing in between you and your dream life. Now is the time you are worth it it. And come join us especially as we kick off our end of year challenge on December 1st. Okay, so last question, last few questions. What are you integrating at this moment in this season? What part of your purpose do you feel like is being called in you for this next chapter?
- [64:26]
A
So my sister and I are doing this thing that we're called eating the space at the moment. Because knowing a little bit about just, I'm always thinking about where this specific moment fits in with the new paradigm and the march towards it and all the different steps that are coming to get us there. And I'm just thinking so much about how it's so important for us to figure out what our distractions are. And I don't just mean the phone, the substances, the whatever, but also just like the energetic distractions like messaging lots of people a day or like replying frantically and you know, the little, little things like whatever yours are. But being without distraction and fully facing, like introducing more nothingness into your day feels like death. It really does. And you really feel useless, dull, uninspired, unexciting. Your brain go, nothing's happening to me. Everyone else is like moving along and knows what they're doing. And the spoiler is no one knows what they're doing. But this eating the space is like every time we want to go back into old patterns that are ego addictions, we don't do it. But again, for me, I'm not doing it to get a result. And I don't know what's actually coming out on the other side of it at the moment. So I'm still in that middle place where I'm like, you know what though? It doesn't really matter. Even if nothing comes. I know it's a, a, it's a self mastery thing. I need to be doing less because all of us need to be doing less so that we have more intentionality left for the stuff that is in there. And we need to have that crossing over the border of seeming nothingness to enter all that is like, that's how the divine finds us. And maybe you only get three divine messages a year in all of the nothingness you put towards that. But those three things are going to absolutely move the needle and change your life. You don't need downloads and ahas and rainbows and unicorns every day, day.
- [66:16]
B
Right?
- [66:17]
A
So it's that more subtle path that's, that's kind of coming. And it takes a lot to kind of keep doing it because trust me, the ego and the brain hates it. And Mine still does, but I'm in that space where we're kind of keeping each other accountable at the moment of, like, are you continuing to eat the space? Because a different way of living, not the house, the person, the. The business goal or whatever's on the other side, but, like, this other, newer paradigm way of living that we have to practice now because otherwise. Otherwise it's gonna be hard to catch up to it when it's much harder to choose this and access this as things speed up and get more intensified. To do it now is a privilege, even though it seems like no one else is doing it. And so what's the point? And what's it gonna amount to? So we both have identified our own versions of where we try to fill space, and then we're just, like, keeping each other accountable with trying to just master the space. Like, eat that damn space, make it yours.
- [67:12]
B
I love this. And I love also the not putting the pressure on the space to always give you the download. I'm so guilty of that. I'm like, I meditated. Where's my aha moment? Like, this is where I'm supposed to get all my best ideas, where, hello, like, come on. And I'm, like, looking for this thing, but it's catching the ego. And it's like, you're showing up like this because you felt called to show up like this, not for the reward on the other side. Sit in the space. Oh, that's so good. That's such a good lesson in surrender too.
- [67:45]
A
Yeah. And what I will say is kind of what you were saying earlier has happened, where it's like, you then don't need it, and then it just happens. But the stuff I've gotten is not stuff I would have decided I wanted to get out of it. But, like, the craziest, coolest things have been happening because I've been eating space, which is, like, stuff is just falling into place. I'm not having to, like, micromanage and think about things. I'm not having to pre plan. People are coming out of the woodwork. Stuff is just appearing. Like, it's so freaky that even I'm like, I've heard people talk about, like, I understand what Echo told means now in a different way than I ever have. Because unless you're, like, living in that groove, you kind of don't understand that you can, like, do nothing and stuff just happens. But it isn't genuinely doing nothing. It's the hard work of overcoming yourself and your addictions and your mental addictions and Your ego addictions all the time, like, that's hard work, but it's a doing nothingness that is not kind of cosplaying as like, busy controlling, spiritually manipulating all those other things that seem like they're higher versions of what you used to do before.
- [68:44]
B
Before.
- [68:44]
A
But then there's a giving them up altogether. There's, like, playing the game in a higher way, and then there's exiting the game altogether. So that's where I'm at right now. And then I'm just like. Whatever comes out of it is just like, whatever. It's. Thy will be done. Things are just moving through me, and they're happening, and I don't need to control them. It's kind of fun.
- [69:01]
B
Oh, my gosh. I love this. And so good for also this time of year, too, Ushering into. For a lot of us, it's ushering into the winter months and that cocooning, that quiet, that reflection. I think also, if we talk about, like, heightening your ability to really see the things in your life, to feel them with your senses, to be present to them, you need a stronger muscle of sitting in the nothingness, because then the things that you really love will feel so vibrant, so. So luscious. It kind of reminds me of if you ever eat a lot of processed foods, like if you're traveling or something, and then you go back to eating really healthy, delicious vegetables, you're like, wait a second. This vegetable tastes unbelievable. Like, the flavors it has. But you can't do it right after all the processed foods. You need, like, a comedown where everything actually tastes bland for a second. And then you're like, wait, now this carrot all of a sudden has, like, a explosion of flavors.
- [70:01]
A
Yeah. And I put that on my stories a little bit recently where I think life is making us want to eat more space. Because things that used to feel. So they used to do that for us, like, feel exciting and stuff, it just doesn't anymore. And so then it feels like less of a jump to make to just, like, want to sit on your bed and, like, sit for five minutes and not scroll or just, like, do a little bit of a meditation. Not because you should in your mind, but because you actually start to want it. So it feels like a real coming back to. And I think this is what's gonna. What is awakening so many more of our gifts is like, we can. Can pick up the intentionality behind why the person made the rug. That's what made you, I think, is what drew you to it. It's like you felt the intentionality. And of course anyone could say it's pretty, but it seems like when you're talking about it, you picked up on something deeper than that.
- [70:46]
B
It was an art piece. Yeah. You felt the. Yeah.
- [70:49]
A
So it's like we're becoming better energy readers. And so what feels like nothingness is all of a sudden feeling more full because of your ability to strip away all the, like, artificial excitement from things.
- [71:00]
B
Things. Oh, so exciting. I also just love that, that way of interacting with the world where you can really take in the things, take in the pieces. And it's neuroscience. Like, we train our brains. What's important to pay attention to. And so much of our day is with these glossy things. Whether it's on our phone or what we're worrying about, or a cycle of stress or whatever that external thing is that we're just. We teach our brains to not pay attention to all of this stuff because it's not impacting us in this way. But actually, like, you're saying every single thing we're interacting with in a physical way, like from the lamp to the rug, the simplest things to our. Our morning coffee or whatever. Have that moment with that physical item. And like, you'll. It's crazy how much more rich and the sensory experience is when you have.
- [71:48]
A
Slowness with it and messages like, unfurl from that, like just radical paying attention. There's so many layers of energy in everything, and we don't know them because no one has a system where we're like, told them. But they do exist. It doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure someone one day will commoditize it and figure out a system. But everyone has a different way that they interact with different levels of those energies and things.
- [72:11]
B
Wow.
- [72:11]
A
So, like, why not? We're here to go first. This is ours to discover. This is a frontier for us. Of course it doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean we can't go off script.
- [72:22]
B
So if anyone's listening and they have the ping to. To do this, to understand the science of this, go for it. People are being called.
- [72:31]
A
I will say though, and this is where like, also the TBM stuff has helped so much is because when you are in empty space, if you do have stories that are running in the background, it's gonna feel a lot more uncomfortable. And it feels uncomfortable enough as it is. But at least if you're aware of what your inner child stuff is, then you can kind of like not write off this experiment altogether. Of like, really just being in nothingness, which is your essence, ultimately, like, we are just divineness and nothingness and all at the. All at the same time. So now, being intimately familiar and being able to clean it when it comes up, because when you sit with nothingness, if there is unresolved stuff, it's gonna knock on your door and want, like, you want that to be cleaned off first so you could really sit in nothingness without the filter. So, like, I think that's why TBM is also helpful, is, like, you get intimately familiar with when that stuff tries to come in with in the space, because you've given it space to come up, and then you have the tools to address it and clean that. All that inner child stuff, 100%.
- [73:30]
B
That's why I love all the DI's we did with the Magnetic Self, how to Be Magnetic workshop. We have a section in the beginning of them that's like, if you feel those inner child pieces coming up, wanting to take the driver's seat, wanting to, like, direct this session somewhere, just ask them to step aside, say, like, we see you, you. We're gonna check in, but right now, we're not gonna go down your rabbit hole. We're gonna focus on this place. And just that, oh, I didn't even know I could choose parts of self or even identify. Oh, this is my inner child coming up. And that's why I'm getting so wound up in this way. Like, I think that brings so much awareness and healing.
- [74:07]
A
Yeah, it helps so much. So you're not like being brought into a spiral again. When you're sitting in the nothingness in you, it just gives you that extra kind of peace to keep going through and be like, okay, okay, I see you. You're not all of me. You're just one small piece. But you don't get to drive a seat. Di is another great one for this. So good.
- [74:25]
B
So good. What? Okay, I know we're gonna get this question, but so many people, when we have the challenges exactly like you said, it's that portal where, you know, it's like 20 minutes a day. I can do this, whatever. And we have those twice a year. But in between those challenge cycles, how do you. And I'm sure very intuitively, but how do you. You have a routine, or do you have a routine with the work that you don't totally forget about it, but you do it in a way that feels aligned for you. People need examples, like, how do they work with it?
- [74:53]
A
Okay, I'm trying to think about how I use it. So I. I like doing a DI every day in the morning. As soon as I wake up in the morning, if I have that space for my brain to be slightly more in that preferred brain state. And I've heard other people say this on the podcast before that that or maybe it's just you and Lacey, I don't know. But you know, the DI's kind of take you where you need to be taken anyway. So I kind of don't feel like you can get it wrong if you just keep. If you do it enough and know how much it's rewarding to you and how much it gives you to your day. It's almost like now it's like a non negotiable. It's like having a coffee in the morning. It's like you just want to. So the only days I really miss is if I'm like really in a rush or, or have to catch a flight or I'm just not in that state when I wake up and I know I need to go deal with something instead of sit on. You know what I mean? Times when it's like avoiding something. But I say five to six days a week I'm doing a di and then I have my go to's. Like everyone else does have their favorite ones. Mine are authentic self. I do that one a lot. I do unblocked a lot. I do self love a lot. I do. Oh my gosh, what's it called? And I do it because it was so transformative at your last tour.
- [76:04]
B
Oh, the blind spot.
- [76:05]
A
Blind spot, yeah. I love that one. 16 minute one. It's such a good one. And what I do with that one because it takes you to three different kind of archetypes of how you could be getting in the way. I literally take myself as if I'm all three of those. So I like go through all of them and I'm like, there's parts of me that are the avoider or there's parts of me that are, you know, the one that romanticizes things. Those are my kind of go tos. But then sometimes my sister will be like, I'll go to her and I'll be like, I'm really struggling with this. And she's like, I'm telling you, drive a C D I for that one. Or she'll be like, I know you don't want to do this one, but do this one, you know, and then she has her favorite. So we kind of like recommend. But then sometimes as you know, like I'll Just do one for a month. Like I did in April. I did self love for a month.
- [76:48]
B
Yeah. So good.
- [76:49]
A
Self love di for a month. I can't recommend that enough to anyone. That one is really beautiful. That whole stuff that I was saying about just being so good to your own soul like you would for anyone else, like, that came from doing the self love di every single day. And that was a message that just kept on coming back to me. It's like, if you have all these dreams for humanity to be this way, you've got to practice what you preach on yourself, honey. Because otherwise your movie ain't gonna reflect.
- [77:15]
B
That and people can feel it.
- [77:17]
A
Yeah.
- [77:18]
B
I mean, that was so helpful. I feel like I'm probably about the same. I'd probably do GI's four or five times, but it's very intuitive because I know where all of them are. I just search in the app. Like, so simple. Like, I don't even go to a playlist. I'm just like, oh, I know the title of that one. And I'll like, type it in and then have it come up. But similarly, like, I kind of just know what I need. I know if there's something big I need to go through and unblock. I know if I'm like, no, I'm feeling pretty good, actually. Maybe I kind of want to clear my energy for the day. I, like, already feel plugged into something else. Okay. What would be your dream Di to have? Oh.
- [77:57]
A
Oh, my God. You guys have so many. Because I'm also thinking about, what's that 19 minute? It's not clear your aura. It's like, expand your aura.
- [78:04]
B
Expand your aura.
- [78:05]
A
That came with the money challenge, right? I love that one. That one I feel like, like, ticked a box that I didn't even know that I needed to be ticked. And now I do that one all the time. I love that one. Fear, by the way, is so powerful. That Di. What would be a dream di? I guess, like, just swimming in your own best energy. Like, the best version of your own vibe. And, like, just time to, like, moving through that. That would be fun.
- [78:30]
B
Yes. Okay.
- [78:31]
A
Okay.
- [78:32]
B
We will add it to our list.
- [78:33]
A
I'm sure the list is, like, extremely long. Have you ever.
- [78:36]
B
Every day we're like, guys, we have to do this one. And we're constantly. I was like, guys, we just need a silence di. They're like, jess, we don't need a silence di, by the way. I'm like, just the bell a ding to set the timer so people can just be in Their own state of mind, but at least it's like they can check it off and feel like they did something.
- [78:55]
A
When you put that on your stories, I was like, I know this sounds like Emperor's New Clothes, but it's a brilliant idea. You're not selling nothing. It's a really good idea. We would so use it instead of getting another app. Like, TVmers would use it. Like a no brainer. Yeah, 100%. I love it.
- [79:10]
B
Well, I'll have to roll it out. Oh, thank you so much, Shanna. This was so expansive for me, I think. So expansive for the community as we start gearing up, especially into the end of year challenge. I think you guys, we're not announcing it yet, but I think you guys are gonna really love what's to come and all of these things. And you're just such a light in this world and everything you're sharing. And we're so thankful that you followed that ping to start Human Design.
- [79:38]
A
That was Lacy forcing me.
- [79:39]
B
You are truly changing so many people's lives. There's literally not a day that goes by that I don't open your app. Like, I'm constantly referencing it, whether it's for myself or for a friend or I'm like, wait, what's this person's energy? Oh, right, I should talk to them about this. Like, I'm constantly thinking about it. You're doing amazing things.
- [79:57]
A
I love that. Thank you so much. And I really, genuinely mean, I'm like the 0.1 customer of this, of this work. Like, it's so symbiotic to me. Like, they just go together so well. There's a lot of spiritual fluff, beautiful sounding things, and I love using a lot of them. But tbm, when I think about, like, needle movers, aside from using astrology and using human design, TBM is like, the way that you can really get down to the nailing down, like, your stories and the just. It keeps you. It keeps you accountable on the path of just the chopping wood and the carrying water with the spiritual journey. And I just. I feel so grateful and I feel part of this, like, movement of people doing it together. And it's. It's really reassuring, actually. Actually, it is.
- [80:41]
B
We have so much hope for the future.
- [80:43]
A
We do.
- [80:44]
B
Thank you.
- [80:45]
A
Thank you.
- [80:52]
B
I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. And we put together a little playlist of Jenna's favorite Di that she mentioned at the end. So if you're curious about any of the Di that she recommended, we made a little playlist in the daily practice section that you can check out, and we're so excited to connect with you in book club. At the end of your challenge on tour, however, you're able to connect with us. This is truly the season of reclaiming our magic in such a big way. I can't wait to see what unfolds. All right, we'll see you next week, Sam.