In this episode of Exploring A Course in Miracles, Emily & Robert Perry sit down with New York Times bestselling author and Sirius XM host John Fugelsang to explore his insightful new book, Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds*.

John has spent years unpacking how the teachings of Jesus have been distorted by Christian nationalism—and why reclaiming Jesus' message of love, justice, and human dignity is more urgent than ever. Along the way, there is a reflection on the surprising overlap between John's biblical insights and the message of A Course in Miracles—especially the emphasis on refusing to meet hatred with more hatred.

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Separation of Church and Hate with John Fugelsang