← Extend Podcast with Darshan Shah, MD
Extend Podcast with Darshan Shah, MD
166. Carolina Reis de Oliveira: The Missing Link Between Skin and Longevity
00:57:06
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- [00:03]
A
Welcome to xtend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah. A podcast dedicated to cutting edge science research tools and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21 and trained and board certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results. When it comes to your health span, we are living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world renowned experts offering you a step by step guide to proactively avoid disease and most importantly, extend your health span. Are you treating the symptoms of skin aging or are you addressing its root cause at a cellular level? This episode with Dr. Carolyn Race, CEO and co founder of Oneskin, reveals how her team of scientists revolutionized skincare by focusing in on cellular senescence. We discover how their groundbreaking peptide is the first scientifically validated ingredient to specifically target and reverse biological age by clearing out senescent skin cells. Dr. Reese shares the fascinating journey from growing mini organs to meticulously testing thousands of compounds on skin samples that were grown in the lab. How uncovering most anti aging products are ineffective or even harmful to the skin at a cellular level. We're going to learn about the critical role of the skin barrier, the surprising impact of UV exposure, and why choosing the right sunscreen is paramount not just for aesthetics, but your overall health. This conversation really challenges conventional wisdom about skincare offers a new paradigm for maintaining youthful, resilient skin from within. Tune in to understand the science behind true skin longevity, how inflammation accelerates aging, and practical steps that you can take to protect your skin, which is your body's largest organ. And it's a vital part of your overall health and wellness strategy. Carolina, so fantastic to finally have you on. I've been trying to get you on the podcast for a year now.
- [02:21]
B
I know. Thank you so much for having me. Dr. Shy. Such a pleasure.
- [02:25]
A
Yes, you're amazing because you have such a depth of longevity science and cellular science and you've turned that into a truly revolutionary product and I just would love to dive in with you on. I just can't wait to pick your brain on everything in longevity science, but also your journey like you know you're a scientist and to then find a product that actually works for people is. It's a long way to go. Not A lot of scientists do that, right?
- [02:54]
B
Yeah. And this is actually drove me to be a scientist in the first place. I always wanna research something that would eventually be translated to, you know, create something that would impact and change people's lives. And interesting enough, I didn't expect that I would be in skincare. I was always, I was never necessarily obsessed about beauty, but I was always obsessed about health. And now it's interesting to see how, you know, through skin, we can actually impact our health as well. W my PhD was actually in stem cell biology and tissue engineering. So that's the area that I got, you know, first really fascinated about because there are so many potential applications. And how I actually started was initially growing human tissues out of the stem cells.
- [03:45]
A
Wow.
- [03:46]
B
So initially we were growing, you know, skins. We were growing like mini hearts and mini brains in the lab. And we're using this as a model to test like, new products or new drugs that were being developed to test, like, efficacy and safety. And eventually we start to get more traction from the cosmetic industry because the cosmetic industry needs models that are not based on animals. They can't use animals. And the skins that we were growing was actually a good option. And, and as we started to test these products that were in the market, primarily anti aging products, we were seeing that they were not developed to target aging itself. They're always trying to mask the symptoms of aging, you know, minimize your fine lines and wrinkles, but they are not going at the cellular level where aging is happening. And that's when we saw an opportunity to do something about it.
- [04:38]
A
Wow. So first of all, you were growing, like, human skin. So you're actually testing products in the lab on human skin, which is very difficult to do. Right. Unless you actually grow the skin. So now you've created a new model for testing these products.
- [04:51]
B
Exactly. We created this platform that we basically understand how the skin ages. And then we can test any product or any active or any new ingredient, any new molecule, and we can measure how such a product is changing what we call, like the skin's biological age. But also we measure, like, the skin structure if the skin gets thinner or thicker. So we can visually see how products impact the skin. And it's very interesting, sometimes shocking to see that a lot of the, you know, best sellers, anti aging products are actually damaging our skin.
- [05:26]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [05:27]
B
They are causing inflammation. They're causing toxicity because unfortunately they are, you know, they contain some good actives, but they also have some, like, not so good ingredients that eventually cause that inflammation. So it's really, really important to know what we're putting our skin because eventually we can, you know, end up, like, you know, causing more harm than good.
- [05:50]
A
Yeah. And so this is a big topic of interest for me because, you know, a lot of these chemicals that we put on our skin, they're endocrine disrupting chemicals, their immune system disrupting chemicals. And the part of this that's really, really bad is that we do this every single day, sometimes twice a day, with these products. And so I always recommend to my patients to scan their skincare products with some of these apps like Yucca or Think Dirty, so they know how toxic the products are. And to your point, I would say the majority of the skincare products out there are very toxic. Right. To our biology.
- [06:23]
B
Yeah, I would say that a lot of them are. So I think it's really important, as you said, like, just, you know, look at the ingredients and look at some of these websites that help you screen and look for the science behind. Right. Because I think in the end is testing, like, the final formulation, and very few companies do that and understand what that final formulation, how that formulation impacts the skin. Because in the end is not only the presence of a certain ingredient, because the dose can make a huge difference. So a certain ingredient, a higher dose, can be very toxic. Small dose can be totally fine. And so testing the full formula and understanding what that causes the skin, that's when we actually see, you know, the final, you know, impact.
- [07:10]
A
Got it, Got it. And so this skin model that you develop through stem cells and growing new skin, I mean, obviously there's different types of skins out there. Right. Are you able to grow different types of skin, different colors, different thickness, all of this? Yes.
- [07:24]
B
Yeah. So we partner with clinics that do plastic surgeries, and we get, like, leftover of, like, abdomen skin, sometimes like facial skin. And then we can sometimes we get skins from, like, 30 years old to 40 years, 60 up to 90 years old. So we can really see how this can. As we regrow the cells, you know, the skin of those donors, we can see how these skins grow in the lab, like, and they have, like, different morphologies based on their age.
- [07:53]
A
Yes.
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B
And then we can also receive some different ethnicities, like Afro American, Hispanic and Caucasian Asian skin. And then very interesting. We measure, like, some genes that are very commonly associated with aging. So, for example, P16, they are usually lower in Asian while they are very high in Caucasians.
- [08:13]
A
What is this now?
- [08:14]
B
So the P16 gene.
- [08:16]
A
P16 gene. Okay, so it's higher in Caucasians.
- [08:19]
B
Yeah. Okay, so it's so they, genetically they are more. They age faster than the Asian. You know, so. Yeah, so that.
- [08:28]
A
So you've pinpointed the gene that actually causes Caucasians to seem like they're aging faster than Asians.
- [08:35]
B
Yeah, they're very classic, like gene markers that we evaluate. So P16, P21, these are like senescent, you know, markers. And then we evaluate inflammation. We also evaluate proteins or enzymes that break down collagen. And then we can see how they vary in terms of like, is this gene more active or like, suppressed in different, like, ethnicities? And we see this different variations and it's very interesting.
- [09:03]
A
Wow. So if we're comparing Caucasian skin to like Asian skin or what is. Besides the P16 gene, which is a gene that regulates cellular senescence.
- [09:14]
B
Right.
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A
What are some of the other factors that lead to rapid aging of skin?
- [09:19]
B
There are several factors. One is inflammation. Right. They want. Another one is. So for example, inflammation. We look like IL6, IL8, those interleukins.
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A
Got it.
- [09:31]
B
We also look at proteins that produce collagen or degrade collage. These are methyloproteinases or just collagen enzymes.
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A
Okay.
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B
Hyaluronic acid synthases, elastin, you know, enzymes. So we evaluate all of those genes that basically control, like the skin biology and how the aging process works.
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A
Got it. So if we do hone in on three main reasons that you're seeing when you evaluate these skin models is cellular senescence, which is basically like clearing of old dead skin cells, right?
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B
Yeah. So cellular senescence are essentially these damaged cells that accumulate in our skin and also in our body. And this is actually a mechanism of defense from our body, because if the cells that are already damaged, they continue to divide, they could potentially become a cancer. And when we are young, our body is able to clear out those senescent cells in our skin. But then as we get old, our immune system also gets deficient. And then these cells start to build up. And the problem is that they don't only sit around, they are like start secreting inflammation and they basically induce the cells around it to become senescent and to age faster. So in the lab, when we see, for example, a skin that is like a 30 year old skin, if we add more senescent cells in that skin, the skin is going to look like a 50, a 60 year old skin. Just because the presence of the senescent cells is inducing more inflammation, is inducing more collagen breakdown. And then we see that this is one of the key Drivers of skin aging. And that's one of the areas that we got really interested and we thought, can we prevent the accumulation of this senescent cells? And that's, you know, the research that led us to study peptides and eventually, you know, get to OS1.
- [11:26]
A
Amazing. So cellular senescence is one, inflammation is another one, which is kind of related to senescence as well. But there's other reasons. Inflammation can develop in the skin as well. Like we were mentioning earlier, using toxic skincare products could be another reason. Even being exposed to pollution can be another reason, Right?
- [11:44]
B
Yes, yes.
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A
And then lastly, you were saying either the formation or the breakdown of collagen, right?
- [11:50]
B
Yes. And this can be induced by several factors. For example, UV exposure is a. Basically, UV exposure accounts for like 80% of like, the visible signs of skin aging.
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A
And 80% of the visible is UV skin exposure.
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B
80% is like environmental stressors in general. And UV exposure is like the main one. Yeah. And so you said the pollution and other, you know, types of radiation, this can all count as, like, environmental stresses. But UV exposure is the main one. And basically UV exposure really causes this collagen degradation. We have a UV simulator at our lab, and we expose the skin and we see that the collagen degradation really increases. And actually, when we apply some of our peptide, or even the spf, including the peptide, we completely protect against that collagen degradation, and we actually boost the collagen production with the peptide.
- [12:51]
A
Wow. So is there. I have so many questions on this. So your peptide actually prevents UV light from degrading the collagen. So is that what you're saying?
- [13:03]
B
So our peptide basically empowers the cells to be more efficient in repairing the DNA damage.
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A
I see.
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B
So the DNA doesn't accumulate in the cells because the machinery of the cells in repairing damage is more efficient. And it is what, what happens when we are young. Right. Like, we are able to repair damage, and then as we grow older, we decrease that, we lose that efficiency. So that's what our peptide is doing. It helps preventing the accumulation of damage from UV and then prevents the collagen degradation as a consequence.
- [13:34]
A
Got it. Makes total sense. So, you know, there's always a lot of controversy around how much sun exposure is the right amount of sun exposure. Right. And so I'd love for you to answer that question because you need sun.
- [13:45]
B
Yes, yes. And I love sun. I think for us is you can enjoy sun as long as you are protecting your skin. And. And doesn't mean even that you are going to prevent vitamin D production. If you have sunscreen and if you're out there, eventually you're going to even potentially get a little more tanned. But if you're not getting sunburn, if you have that layer of protection that's preventing that really strong damage that can come from, like, direct sun exposure, you can still harness, you know, the benefits of the sun and not, like, damage your skin.
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A
Got it. So what is the minimum amount of time someone should be spending in the sun every day?
- [14:26]
B
Wow, that's a very tricky question. Yeah, I think this is more from a longevity standpoint. You know, personally, I love, like, you know, 15, 20 minutes early morning. Sometimes even, you know, if. If the UV index is not too high, even with my bare face, I don't mind.
- [14:43]
A
Yeah.
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B
But then I think if the UV index is higher, obviously, you know, you needed to be more mindful of how. How much you're exposed, and then you can be exposed and obviously wearing, like, UV protectant clothes and, you know, heads and etc.
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A
So, yeah, I think what you said early morning is better than, like, when the sun is in full.
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B
Yes.
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A
In full blast on you is better as well. Okay, got it. And then what is the best type of sunscreen that people should buy? This is a question that comes up a lot.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, that's a great one. So there is a lot of discussion about, you know, chemical versus mineral sunscreen. The chemical sunscreens, they can get into your bloodstream. So this can be a little bit more risky depending on the amount of sunscreen that you apply. So to be extra safe, we recommend the mineral sunscreen. And I think in the past, this was a challenge because mineral had not a great, you know, texture was like a paste, but now they can be, like, a beautiful, nice texture. They can blend well. And in our case, like, we developed this mineral sunscreen that contains the peptide, contains like, six other antioxidants, including a very stable form of vitamin C. So it's. It's kind of a trifecta product in a way that you are protecting. You are enhancing, you know, the cellular activity with the peptide. And the antioxidants are, like, neutralizing the free radicals that are also causing damage in our cells, in our proteins, and, you know, preventing the acceleration of the aging process.
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A
Got it. And is there zinc in your sunscreen?
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B
Yeah, it's basically made of, like, zinc oxide.
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A
Great, great. How does zinc work to protect your skin?
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B
It creates a layer, kind of a mineral layer. And so, very simply put, like, it kind of doesn't allow the UV to penetrate so it doesn't go inside the cells. It's basically, like, reflects.
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A
It's not.
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B
Yeah, it's not necessary. But, you know, that's a simple. Simply put, like, it reflects the UV.
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A
Yes, yes. And I believe your sunscreen is SPF 30, right? 50.
- [16:54]
B
It's 30. Yeah.
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A
Is there a reason to go higher on the SPF ever or so the
- [17:00]
B
difference of 30 to 50 is not very significant. You go from, like, 97% protection to 99. And the problem going from 30 to 50, then you needed to add so much more zinc that then the texture becomes a huge challenge. And if you have a product that people won't use, then it's not helpful. Right. So we needed to have something in between. But this protection is already, like, really, really good to prevent, you know, the majority of damage that you would get.
- [17:31]
A
Amazing. So, you know, I want to go back to stem cells again, because I think it's a really important topic that people have a lot of questions about. When you're growing stem cells into skin, and you said even hearts and things like that, how does that process work? What is. What are you actually doing in a laboratory?
- [17:47]
B
Yeah. So right now, we are only researching skin. So hearts was like, you know, back in Brazil, when I was still in Brazil. But basically, from these skins, as I said, we get the tissue from, you know, leftover of plastic surgeries so we can separate the derms from the epiderms. These are the two main layers of the skin. Like, the dermal layer is the layer that contain the fibroblasts. These are the cells that produce collagen that will, you know, give, like, the firmness and the structure of the skin. And the epidermal layer contains, like, the keratinocytes and the melanocytes. So this will form basically the skin barrier. You know, the. The. The keratinocytes will create this keratin layer that will, you know, isolate the skin. And so basically, these cells are able to replicate in the lab. And then we put them together. We have a system that we put the cells on top of a grid. So the skin becomes exposed to air, and. And the exposure basically induces the cells to differentiate it. Like our human skin. Right. Because the human skin is exposed to air. So we are able just to mix these cells together. First, the layer of the derms, and then we put the epiderms on top, and then we created this 3D model that when we put side by side to a human skin is exactly. Is very similar. So now we have, like, this model that's really similar to a human skin that we can test everything. And then we have a beautiful ability to predict how the skin will behave when we bring a product to, you know, to market. Because basically evaluated again, the ingredient, the combination of different, you know, ingredients together and that basically allow us to be more successful with like anything that we bring out.
- [19:42]
A
And how, how big is a skin that you're growing? Is it like a 1 inch patch or like.
- [19:47]
B
Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's kind of a 1 inch. It's a small. But then we can grow like 100 different pieces, you know? Yeah. And we can test like different variations depending what we want to test.
- [19:59]
A
Got it. And I assume it's in some sort of specialized culture material or something because there's no blood flow to this. Right.
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B
So there is like we call like culture media. Like it's a liquid that's underneath the skin that's providing all the nutrients.
- [20:14]
A
Right, got it, Got it. So fascinating. I'd love to visit the lab.
- [20:18]
B
I know it would be so great to have.
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A
You still have this lab?
- [20:21]
B
We have. Yeah, we have the lab in San Francisco.
- [20:24]
A
Amazing.
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B
We grow, we test, you know, in skins like every week. So if you have a chance to come would be such a pleasure.
- [20:31]
A
Yes, I would love to come and visit. I mean, it's just maybe I'll do like a YouTube video or something from your lab. Because this is just fascinating because this technology has not been around for a long time. Right, you guys, how long has this been around?
- [20:44]
B
Well, this skin growing ability, it's been around for maybe a few decades, like 20 to 30 years. I think the main innovation of one skin is really on finding new peptides that can actually target senescent cells. So this research about senescent cells and the impact in our skin is very recent. It's been like 10, 15 years. And this is mainly in academia, so we've been researching this for the past 10 years and we are the first ones to actually target senescent cells in the skin.
- [21:17]
A
Got it.
- [21:18]
B
Yeah.
- [21:22]
A
So I'm 52 right now, but I'm still pushing all of my limits. I'm running long distances. I travel across many time zones to support my work, and I just want to live my life to the fullest. Staying active as I age isn't just about willpower. It's about supporting my mitochondria, the powerhouses of my cells, with the energy that they need to recharge my muscles and recharge my brain. Mitopure is a supplement that I take. It's backed by solid research showing that it can boost cellular energy, increase muscle strength and support overall healthy aging. Personally, I take mitopure every single day. It's helped me continue my active lifestyle whether it's a high intensity workout or keeping up with my kids. So if you are looking to support your body and want to feel younger from the inside out, my friends at timeline are offering you a 10% discount on your first order. Go to timeline.comdrshaw to get started. That's timeline.comdrshah your future self will thank you. So this peptide is called os1, right? And can you describe that peptide? Is it similar to other peptides that are out there? And how does it target the senescent cell? Because senescent cells are not only in your skin. I mean, we have sensors all throughout our body. So why not inject the OS1 peptide?
- [22:44]
B
Yes, yes, great question. So how we found OS1 in the first place? So we collaborated with an university in Brazil. They had a library of 200 microbial peptides initially. And our hypothesis was, are any of these peptides able to reduce senescent cells? So basically tested these 200. We got to four peptides, then we, they worked. But we, we thought they could work even better. So we used machine learning and we generate like another 800 peptides and we did another round of tests.
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A
This is just incredible that. To use machine learning.
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B
Yes.
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A
To generate 800 new PEP versions of the four that you found that work in senescent cells. And I don't know if a lot of people know this, but this is how they found the GLP1 peptide. Right. Because they had, they knew we had GLP1, but it just only lasts a few minutes.
- [23:35]
B
Yeah.
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A
How do you make it last a week?
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B
Yeah.
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A
And then they tested it with machine learning and they found the Gila monster. Peptide lasts a week in humans.
- [23:43]
B
Yes.
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A
I mean, without machine learning, none of this would be possible. Yeah, machine learning slash AI, Right?
- [23:47]
B
Yeah, exactly. Because what it allows us to do, we know from the peptides that worked compared from the ones that didn't. You know, let's maintain what worked and let's change what they didn't. And then, you know, machine learning can create like hundreds of iterations. And then we tested this in the cells again, we test this in senescent cells in the lab skin cells. And then we measured the ability of those peptides to reduce the total amount of senescent cells. And that's when we found OS1. So OS1 is a completely novel peptide, is a peptide that has 10amino acids. And we found that it works by basically getting inside the cells, as I said, increases the DNA repair. And for the cells that are already in the senescent states and they are secreting inflammation, it basically shuts off the inflammation pathways. Because if the senescent cells are not releasing the inflammation, they are not causing damage, they're just there. And so the peptide helps doing that. And then what happens when there is less inflammation? The surrounding tissue, our own body, can go there and clear those senescent cells because our immune system is not overwhelmed by the inflammation. So basically, this peptide has this ability to reduce. In our models, we saw up to 40% the load of senescent cells in the skin. And to your point, like, if it could reduce senescent cells throughout our body, it could. It's a very difficult process to test, like, you know, in a model, then we would need to test in animals. And because we're mostly focused in the skin, it's not our priority right now. But in the future, potentially, there is an opportunity to see what, you know, how this can be, you know, applied systemically and help us, you know, clear senescent cells systemically. But there are other ways, even like natural extracts or even, you know, things like fasting that can also help our own body clear senescent cells internally. So we are primarily focused on the skin for now.
- [25:51]
A
Yeah. No, I mean, it's always easier to start with skin just because of, you know, once you get past skin, then there's a whole different set of regulations. Cost hundreds of millions of dollars at that point in time.
- [26:02]
B
Yeah.
- [26:02]
A
But, you know, there are a lot of people that are suffering from a lot of inflammation. Then we may measure some biomarkers of senescence. Right. So just systemically from blood.
- [26:11]
B
Yeah.
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A
And then they're always like, now what do I do of these markers of high levels of senescence? And we recommend, obviously, fasting and some of these more natural supplements and extracts. And I think there is one or two peptides that people use for senescence, but nothing that's been adequately tested in humans.
- [26:29]
B
Yeah, yeah. Most of the clinical studies targeting senescence, they're either using that are ongoing. Right now they're using fisetin or fisetin or the dysatinib plus quercetin.
- [26:43]
A
Right.
- [26:43]
B
But again, yeah, with peptides, they're still only in preclinical stage. They're not like in human stage for senescent cells, as far as I know.
- [26:51]
A
Yeah.
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B
So.
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A
So the OS1 peptide goes into the cell. It then Shuts off the inflammatory pathways in the cell. So then the immune system has an easier time getting to these senescent cells to clear them out of your skin.
- [27:04]
B
Yeah.
- [27:04]
A
And then this leads to less damage buildup over time because it's just less inflammation. Inflammation causes damage to the surrounding skin cells. That's how it works.
- [27:13]
B
Exactly.
- [27:14]
A
Amazing. And so, you know, there's other skincare products out there that have different effects on skin. You mentioned vitamin C in some of these free radical scavengers. Right. And so are those also important to be using, like, simultaneously with something like this at clear senescence?
- [27:30]
B
Yes, definitely. So if you think about the antioxidants and the role of, like, protecting against the free radical, this is one way that you can prevent even the accumulation of senescent cells as well. So in our products, we will always combine os1 with other antioxidants and even other ingredients that will help with moisture, like hyaluronic acid or glycerine, because the skin needs that moisture to maintain also the barrier strong. So we always combine os1 with those ingredients that are supporting the activity of the skin as a whole. And we think that it's possible to reduce the amount of products if you combine these ingredients in one product and simplify the skincare routine, because you also don't want to overwhelm your skin with, like, too many actives A lot of times. It's so interesting because in the lab, we clearly see that this, when we combine too many peptides, we think that we are going to deliver better benefit. And no, like, the skin response, like, in a. In a worse way, because it gets, like, overwhelmed by too many actives at the same time. So I think it's important, as I said, like, to know what the final formula it's deliver in terms of benefits. And you can only know if you test the full formula. But as you know, antioxidants, vitamin C. We actually have vitamin C, as I said, in our sunscreen. And then, you know, ingredients that could support the barrier of the skin, like ceramides, fatty acids, glycerines.
- [29:09]
A
Got it. And so you have all those combined in the same product. Got it. So if we're using. I've been using the OS1 product for a while now. What should I be using with that? Or is that all I need?
- [29:20]
B
Well, we try to simplify for those that want a very simple and effective skincare routine. So you could only focus on OS1. And in our line, we have, like, a face moisturizer, we have an eye cream that Actually has a little bit of a higher concentration of the peptide and has other ingredients that supported the, the skin around our eyes. Because the skin is thinner.
- [29:45]
A
Yeah.
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B
And accumulates more senescence. And it's actually, there is data showing that the biological age of the skin under or above your eyes can be 20 to 30 years older than the skin around your temples. So this formula is actually more potent in terms of like actors. So for, for me, what I do is like, you know, wash my face with a cleanser, apply the face moisturizer, apply the eye cream. I'm done.
- [30:13]
A
Amazing.
- [30:14]
B
And then in the morning I will, I skip the washing phase because my face is already clean, you know, from the last, from the night before. And then I just apply the moisturizer and the sunscreen. And as I said, like the sunscreen has the vitamin C, so I don't need another vitamin C serum. The only product that is not included and is very common in a skincare routine is like retinol or retinoids.
- [30:37]
A
Yes.
- [30:38]
B
So you could add this to your routine. You know, mostly at night. You could apply it first if your goal is really to target like the fine lines and wrinkles. But if your skin is a little bit more sensitive and you want to create like a layer of protection, sometimes I alternate. So I apply OS1 first and then I apply the retinol because I feel that my skin is more protected when I have the one skin first.
- [31:04]
A
Got it, got it. And how does retinol work?
- [31:06]
B
Yeah, retinol basically activates this cell renewal capacity. So the upper layers of your skin will basically peel off and you are going to grow a newer, fresher skin. So it's really good to smoothing the lines or giving a better texture because it's inducing that cell renew effect. Some people are more sensitive and they cannot necessarily tolerate because retinol can also cause inflammation and irritation. And the other thing. Well, retinol also produce, induces collagen production, but in, in the way that it pairs well with OS1, it's because it's not targeting the senescent cells. So we want to be able to do both. Right. You want to be able to support the collagen production. We want to be able to induce the cell renew, try to minimize the inflammation and you know, combat this senescent cells accumulation. And that would be like a really well rounded routine.
- [32:02]
A
Got it, Got it. Yes. I mean, just, you know, skincare routines are tough because I see, you know, people with like 30 products on their bathroom, on their sink, you know, and they Go through this. And it takes a long time, but it sounds like you're trying to simplify this as much as possible. And the only thing maybe to add is a retin. A retinoid.
- [32:19]
B
Yeah.
- [32:19]
A
At nighttime.
- [32:20]
B
Right.
- [32:21]
A
To help with if you have fine lines and wrinkles, which.
- [32:24]
B
And for. Yeah. And for women. And this is actually, you know, a product that we are working right now that are going maybe through menopause and have like a little bit of a drier skin that obviously we know that as estrogen declines, your skin will lose moisture, will lose collagen. So a heavier moisturizer on top of OS1 could also be beneficial. And that's something that we are working on. So that should come up soon.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah, like a heavier moisturizer. Got it.
- [32:55]
B
Exactly. Like a richer cream to really lock skin moisture. Because when your skin, you know, is dry, then, you know, the barrier will be compromised and then the signs of age will even look worse because your skin is so like dehydrated. So really enhancing like that barrier protection, the function of the skin is really, really important.
- [33:19]
A
And is this also protecting people from. Obviously everyone has to have good looking skin, but is it also protecting people from like the toxins in the environment, et cetera, that can be absorbed through our skin?
- [33:31]
B
Yeah, because the main function of the skin is to be a barrier. Right. And the barrier is to prevent from these environmental stressors and pathogens to get into our skin. So when our barriers compromise, they can get in easier. Your skin can get more irritated and can get more sensitive. So by strengthening your barrier, you are actually enhancing like your immune function. Right. Because you're like protecting against those pathogens. And I think another interesting study that we did was with the body lotion. Because what we didn't realize when we started, you know, one skin, is that because the skin is our largest organ, as the skin degenerates and accumulates senescent cells, the barrier breaks. It becomes more susceptible to, you know, these pathogens. And there is an increase in inflammation that's coming from our skin skin that eventually elevates our internal levels of inflammation. So we did a study that we recruited participants that were like 60 years plus. We measured their blood at baseline, we measured the inflammation level in their blood at baseline. And they use our body lotion and their face product for three months. And after three months, we measure again the inflammation. And we could see a decrease in inflammatory markers in their blood by basically restoring their skin.
- [34:58]
A
Okay, so people dealing with inflammation too, getting their skin restored could be another way of Reducing some of that.
- [35:05]
B
Yeah. Because what we don't realize, that only the fact that skin is aging, there is an inflammation that's being accumulated from that aging process. So, for example, people that have psoriasis, you probably know that they have like 50% more chances to develop cardiovascular disease.
- [35:22]
A
I did not know that.
- [35:23]
B
Yes. 50, 50.
- [35:26]
A
If you have psoriasis, if you have
- [35:27]
B
the lesions that are not like, treated, if they're constantly, you know.
- [35:31]
A
Yes.
- [35:32]
B
Flaring that inflammation that's coming from your skin impacts your internal health and, you know, increases your chance to have cardiovascular disease.
- [35:40]
A
Okay.
- [35:41]
B
So skin aging is similar, but it's very low, a low level of inflammation, but it's happening like in this incremental process that we don't realize that. But if we don't treat our skin, we are actually allowing, you know, the skin to also, you know, introduce inflammation in our body. So that's why at one skin, we think of skin as a longevity, you know, part of, of your protocol. Right. Like, it's also, you're thinking about, you know, nutrition, sleep, and we are thinking, okay, how I should address my skin in a way that can support my longevity. And, and the focus is like, I'm going to improve the barrier of the skin. I'm going to keep my skin as healthy and resilient as possible. And this is the way that I'm supporting my health. And the, you know, good part is that the consequence, you're going to look better because, you know, a healthy, stronger skin, you know, is also a better looking skin.
- [36:37]
A
Yeah. I think it's just kind of a new concept for me because, you know, I worked with people on getting their skin looking better. But it's always more of a thought. The thought is almost more around, like, how young can I look? But the reality is your skin is actually a very functional organ.
- [36:52]
B
Yes.
- [36:53]
A
And you need it to be as healthy as possible because it's protecting you from the outside environment. And the more you're protective of the outside environment, the less inflammation you have, the less toxins get absorbed through your skin. So it is an organ of longevity. It's a protective organ. Right. We focus so much on gut health.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah.
- [37:11]
A
But you know, your skin has a large amount of surface area. Well, that protects you from the outside environment. I think it's like if you took your skin and you laid it out, it's like the size of a tennis court, right?
- [37:21]
B
Yeah. I don't know exactly, but I know that is, it is the largest organ in our body. Yeah.
- [37:26]
A
That's what people At a time. It's a lot of cells in our skin.
- [37:30]
B
That is. Yeah. That is amazing.
- [37:32]
A
Wow. Wow. Hi, Dr. Shah here. I want to take a minute to talk to you about cellular health. So in my clinics, I've actually seen 30 year old people with cells that look like they're pushing retirement. And I've also seen 60 year olds with cells that look like they're 40 years old. So what's the difference? It's really about how fast their telomeres are breaking down. Your cells you see, are like phones and they have limited cell phone battery, poor sleep, stress, processed foods. All of these things can drain that battery way faster than it should. So this is the reason why I partnered with iM8. IM8 powers that cellular battery. It's not just another multivitamin. It's a comprehensive 92 ingredient formula designed specifically for cellular health and longevity. I'm talking 900 milligrams of vitamin C. That's like 20 oranges worth of DNA protection. The clinical dose of CoQ10 that you need to power your cellular engine. You also get zinc, selenium, vitamin E, alpha lipoic acid. All of these work synergistically for cellular repair and protecting your telomeres. So instead of taking a handful of pills every day and all these supplements, Im8 actually gives you everything that you need in one scientifically formulated system. And this isn't just a theory anymore. IMAID had partnered with Oxford University, the International Space Station San Francisco Research Institute, and they've done studies and they've gotten this NSF certified to truly power your health. Most people are aging twice as fast as they should. Unfortunately, you don't have to be one of them. Try imai. I actually have a discount secured for you if you go to drshaw.comima or go to im8health.com discount DrShaw and you can get 20% off with my discount code DrShaw. You can also find the link below. You know, one of the things that we talked about earlier was the concept of these aging clocks. Is there like an aging clock for the skin that you can actually measure how aged your skin is?
- [39:36]
B
Yeah, so we actually developed one. Oh, this? Yeah. Back in 2018 when we started this research, we wanted to measure how the skin age is changing through the epigenetics. And there at that time there was no specific clock for skin. The best clock available was the skin and blood from Horvath, but it was not specific for skin yet. So we did build one, only trained with skin samples. And that's the clock that when we developed the peptide and we measured how the peptide would impact the skin's biological age, we saw 2.5 years decrease in the skin's age in the skins that we treated in the lab with the peptide. Yeah. So we developed this clock, but we also tested our peptide against other clocks that are available and we see consistent decrease in the biological age. More recently there is another company working on a non invasive type of clock. So basically they collect like tape strip, like the biological sample with tape strip of your skin.
- [40:40]
A
Okay.
- [40:40]
B
And then they built a clock that using the. More like this, the surface layers of the skin and that we are collaborating with them because our clock still needs a biopsy, which is like very invasive. And then if we can get something that's non invasive, that would work better.
- [40:56]
A
That would be amazing. I mean, so basically you take a piece of tape you put on your skin, you send that tape in and they do the genetics sequencing, the methylation.
- [41:06]
B
Yeah.
- [41:06]
A
And then you can.
- [41:07]
B
And they run their own, they develop their own clock and then they can measure the, the biological age of the skin.
- [41:13]
A
That's. When is that coming out?
- [41:14]
B
So that clock is already available. It's from Mitra Bio, it's a different company.
- [41:19]
A
Okay.
- [41:20]
B
But we are doing a study with them to see how our products now, you know, test using their technology, how we can measure the change in the age of the skin using our products. Yeah.
- [41:32]
A
And does it give you like a skin age? Yeah, it does. I can send my skin in. It's like your skin is aged as much as a 50 year old or 45 year old.
- [41:40]
B
Exactly.
- [41:40]
A
And this is commercially available for people,
- [41:43]
B
not direct to consumers. Yet they are still working more with clinical research. So I think they are more like focused on B2B and clinical studies for now. Yeah.
- [41:55]
A
Wow. Amazing.
- [41:55]
B
Very exciting, exciting stuff.
- [41:57]
A
Because now you can really. It's another way of just testing the efficacy on a human on an N of one basis. Right. So if you're doing a skincare routine and you measure, you know, your skin age before and after your skincare routine and it's working, why would you stop doing that skincare routine?
- [42:13]
B
Right, exactly.
- [42:14]
A
I think this is really powerful for patients to get in their hands too.
- [42:19]
B
So hopefully they go direct to consumer soon. Yeah. It's still very expensive. So hopefully they will decrease. Be able to decrease the cost with scale.
- [42:28]
A
Yeah, that's fantastic. And then so with this product OS1, do you think there's other peptides that could be potentially helpful in the future for skin aging and just aging in General.
- [42:39]
B
Yeah, yeah, totally. That's one of the lines of research. At One Skin, we are not only developing novel products, we are also developing. We continue to research peptides and find ways that either other peptides could complement OS1 or we could find a more effective OS1 that could reduce even more, you know, the load of senescent cells or that could, like, penetrate, you know, easier. So that, that's something that we have ongoing with our team of scientists and we have some promising candidates. So hopefully in the future, our goal is to not only necessarily add the new products to the line, but bring like a 2.0 version of our product, like a more effective version. Because this is our mission, like, is really to continue to understand the science and develop better products and bring this to our customers, to our community. Because we are on top of everything that's going on, on this science, and we are able to translate that faster, you know, to. To our consumers.
- [43:43]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's such an incredible new world where, you know, now you have grown skin in the laboratory, you can test many products that you develop, use AI to create peptides that you're testing directly on skin, and then you can see which ones work and then you can launch it to people. It's a whole new way of doing things. And I think, you know, your lab is a perfect example of the future of medicine, really, because just like what you're doing with skin, like we said earlier, skin is like the least amount of regulatory barriers. But hopefully we can get there with cardiovascular health, we can get there with liver health, et cetera, where we're growing little organoids and we're testing thousands of molecules developed by AI on them. And before we even introduce into human. And you're using methylation clocks as well. So now we're actually testing like, you know, at a genetic level what genes are turned on and off. And so you really can understand what's working and what's not.
- [44:34]
B
The full picture. Yeah. And what you said is already happening. So I think we are representing the scanning, that kind of innovation. But, you know, there are many other companies and organizations working on this organ, on a chip or organ in the lab and doing those tests. And AI is accelerating everything. So it's a really exciting time.
- [44:53]
A
It's an exciting time to be alive for sure. So I'm going to ask you some tough questions about that. Where do you think skin health is going in the next five years?
- [45:01]
B
I think it's going to this direction of again, understanding how we can maintain the skin functioning at this young, healthy state in a way that we continue to reduce inflammation, we continue to maintain the cells functioning well in order to prevent them to age. So I think this preventative, you know, approach is getting stronger. Stronger, because the goal is that if we can maintain the skin at that, you know, you know, youthful, healthy, functioning state, you don't even. You don't need it to reverse. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But in terms of, like, other exciting, you know, obviously, you know, peptides is an exciting area. Another area that we're studying as well is exosomes. You know, it's. There's a huge potential there. There's also, you know, a lot of uncertainty. So there, there needs to be a lot of testing to understand which exosomes are actually delivering, you know, the molecules or the growth factors that you expect. But I think just being able, again, to understand in vitro, in the lab what's going on in the biology of the skin as it age and be able to test different interventions, I think this is helping us to really come up with, like, better and better solutions.
- [46:31]
A
Yeah, yeah. You know, going back to exosomes as well, you know, one of the things that I see a lot of places doing is they'll do microneedling.
- [46:39]
B
Yeah.
- [46:39]
A
First, and then they'll put exosomes in, in those microneedling tracks to get better delivery of exosomes into the skin. And to your point, like, what is the active compound in an exosome? We really don't know. You're just going shotgun, like, everything, and an exosome is going to be delivered to your skin. Right. And so I think, like you said, like, if we can hone in on what the compounds are and find a better delivery mechanism that's not having to require you to go for microneedling, that might become another treatment modality.
- [47:08]
B
Right. Yeah, yeah. And now there are different, you know, delivery systems that we are even testing, like, you know, different types of encapsulation and, and depending on the, on the exosomes, they can, you know, penetrate the skin. So it's more about testing, like, the content. Right. Like how that, the, what that exosome is delivering is consistent, you know, throughout, you know, different batches of production and the stability as well.
- [47:37]
A
Got it. Is this something you could test in your lab too, with your skin?
- [47:41]
B
Yeah.
- [47:41]
A
So, yeah, that's, that's really interesting because you're right. When you get exosomes, they're coming from different samples, so you don't know what is one compared to the other.
- [47:49]
B
Exactly, exactly. And making sure that that's consistent is super important. And I think in terms of, like, I think how people are, you know, looking at their skin, I think before we were always trying to pursue that, like, you know, youthful or, like, young skin. And I think now people are thinking more how I can optimize my skin for the age that I am. Like, I don't necessarily want to look like. Like I'm 20 years old again.
- [48:14]
A
Yeah.
- [48:14]
B
I want to, like, look at my best now. I want to look vibrant. I want to look, like, healthy, and I want to look confident. So I think it's changing the perception, like, the. The way that we thought about that skin aging. Something that we need to fight. Right. Like, I think we. We needed to understand how our biology is changing and really work with it, like, how we can optimize, how we can, you know, give the skin the ingredients that it needs throughout the different phases of our lives.
- [48:43]
A
Right.
- [48:44]
B
And then I think we will be able to get both. Like, we'll be able to get, like, you know, a good appearance and. But also, you know, support the health of your skin. That I think, in the end, it's more important.
- [48:57]
A
Yes. Yeah. And you mentioned something earlier. You said that, you know, a lot of this is really prevention, so the sooner you get started, the better. Right. I think that's critical because trying to reverse the damage, you know, it's very difficult. You have to have more aggressive treatments.
- [49:12]
B
It is, but it's possible. It's so interesting. Like, yesterday I was at an event, and this young, like, influencer said, like, I don't know if your product. It's hard for me to know if your product works for me because I don't have many lines. So I. I brought, like, my mom, and I tested my mom, and she took, like, amazing before and afters, and it was very clear to see how the product worked for her mom. But now that she knows that the product works, so, like, it's gonna work for me too. It's gonna be hard. See, But I know that, you know, in. Is working the biologist making my skin, you know, even younger, healthier. So it gives more confidence for people that even if they're not seeing the results, like, to have other people that their results are very clear. So I thought was really a good way to think about that. Exactly. Yeah.
- [49:59]
A
But I also think that, like, you know, just, like, with anything that we do around our health routines, you don't necessarily see something right away, especially if it's something internal, you know, So I think, you know, at some point, you have to trust the science, science that you are being preventative. You are creating better barrier. You are creating slower aging of the skin as well. So I really like that concept of prevention with the skin. Yeah.
- [50:23]
B
And I think it's another important point that in order to change the biology of the skin, this takes time. It's not something that's gonna happen in two weeks. And so with our clinical studies, we usually run studies for six weeks, 12 weeks, six months, one year. And we can see a compounding effect, you know, from six to 12 to six months to 12 months. So the more consistent that you are, you can, you know, allow your skin to build up those benefits and is only gonna, you know, get better. So it's very important that people have this understanding, because a lot of people get too anxious and want to see results like, you know, in weeks, and then they. They give up. But you needed to give time to your biology.
- [51:13]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's also important to highlight that facial aging is skin aging plus also the effects of gravity, plus there's also, you know, damage that's being done by sunlight. There's also, you know, wrinkles that are deeper, that accumulate due to muscle movement as well, which is also a problem that can be addressed with things like neurotoxins like Botox. So it's a multifactorial problem. It's not just the skin. There's other reasons that your facial age that can be addressed now, minimally, invasively, I think, for the most part. And so it's a really incredible time that we live in, too, as we learn more about, through plastic surgery, about doing procedures like fat injections and Botox and fillers and fillers that are not just like injecting hyaluronic acid, but also fillers that are like, actually building up structure in the face as well. So all of these things come together, right?
- [52:09]
B
A hundred percent. Yeah. I think it's very interesting. Some of those fillers, you know, collagen boosters. Right. That will induce your skin cells to produce collagen. I'm a big fan of, like, how we can activate our own cells to produce more collagen, what they already should do. Right. But so I think there are some of these strategies, and they all complement each other, and people can choose, you know, if they want to do all of them, if they would just want to do the topicals. I think it's whatever works best for them, as long as they are not being, again, too aggressive with their skin. Right. I think in the past, we were like doing very abrasive lasers and that can cause so much inflammation and your skin gets so exposed. I think now we can find other things, as you said, that are less invasive or less abrasive and it still, you know, can help you to have like a beautiful look.
- [53:05]
A
Yeah, it's so amazing. And I think it's a great topic for both men and women that are listening because men also need to protect their skin.
- [53:11]
B
Totally. Yeah.
- [53:13]
A
And you know, I've been very much enjoying the use of your product. So thank you so much for sending it to me and being on the podcast to talk about everything around longevity, how it relates to your skin. It's been fantastic.
- [53:26]
B
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Dr. Shah. This was such a fun conversation.
- [53:30]
A
I can't wait to have you back on in your next, your next new discovery.
- [53:33]
B
Yes, I'll be more than happy to be back.
- [53:35]
A
Thank you. Where can people learn more from you and where can people find the product?
- [53:39]
B
Yeah, so you can go to our website at Oneskin Co. Also follow us on social media at Oneskin Co. On our website, if you subscribe to our newsletters, we'll share a lot of about, you know, the product development, the data behind the products and longevity in general. So it's a great source of content for skin longevity and you can be, you know, aware of when we have new products coming out.
- [54:06]
A
I love it. Thank you so much.
- [54:07]
B
Thank you.
- [54:12]
A
Here are my top top five learnings from this 1. Target cellular senescence for true skin rejuvenation. Most anti aging products only treat symptoms. However, OS1, which is a peptide, is the first scientifically validated ingredient to clear out those damaged senescent cells, which effectively reduces the biological age of your skin. Number two, UV exposure is a primary driver of visible skin aging. Environmental stress, especially UV exposure, accounts for 80% of visible signs of aging. By decreasing the amount of collagen you have, protecting your skin from the sun is crucial for maintaining its youthful appearance and health. Sunscreen doesn't inhibit vitamin D absorption. You can actually enjoy the sun and protect your skin at the same time without compromising your vitamin D levels. Focus in on safe sun practices and having the appropriate SPF number four. We now have the technology to grow skin cells of all ages, thickness and color to test cellular aging and our products on. So through stem cell research, Carolina can measure the exact effects of skin care ingredients at a cellular level. Meaning we can now not only treat the symptoms of aging, but treat the aging cells themselves. Number five, a healthy skin barrier is the key to overall health. A compromised skin barrier allows more toxins to enter the body. Protecting and maintaining the integrity of your skin barrier is not vital just for your skin health, but also for your overall well being. This was a great episode of Dr. Carolina Reiss. You can download a podcast guide which dives deep into everything that you learned in this podcast and the best practices and what you can do right now in a protocol form to protect your skin and maintain incredible skin health. Not just for longevity, but also for the appearance of your skin. Just go to my website@drshaw.com skin to find the link. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you like this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purpose purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best and it's always important to seek their guidance. Sam.