← Extend Podcast with Darshan Shah, MD
Extend Podcast with Darshan Shah, MD
182. Michael Easter: The Hidden Health Cost of Modern Comfort
00:57:41
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- [00:00]
A
Before we get started with this episode, I'd like to invite all of you to the first ever next Health Longevity Summit happening in Nashville, Tennessee at the Conrad Hotel on Saturday, September 12, 2026. This is an all day summit where you're going to be hearing from some of the best speakers in longevity medicine, including Dr. Vonda Wright, Dr. Luisa Nicola, many of the podcast guests that you've heard here on the Extend podcast. And of course I'm going to be there curating the entire day. We also have incredible vendors coming so that you can try the latest technologies in health, wellness and longevity. Go to next health.com summit and buy your ticket today. We only have 400 spots and they're going quickly. That's next health.com summit. I look forward to seeing you all there. Welcome to Xtend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah. A podcast dedicated to cutting edge science research, tools and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21 and trained and board certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results. When it comes to your health span, we are living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world renowned experts who are offering you a step by step guide to proactively avoid disease and most importantly, extend your health span. Today we're joined by Michael Easter, a phenomenal writer, former professor and the author of the Comfort Crisis. Michael shares his unique journey from magazine journalism at Scientific American and Men's Health to becoming a leading voice on human resilience and the benefits of embracing discomfort. We're going to dive into how our modern, comfortable lives might be working against our evolutionary biology and explore practical ways to reintroduce beneficial challenges like rucking into our daily routines. Michael's insights are not just theoretical, they're actionable strategies for a healthier, more fulfilling life. And I'm excited for you to hear them. Michael, thanks for driving out here to see me.
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B
Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I'm glad to be here.
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A
This is great. I've been looking forward to this for a while. I've been reading your sub stack and it informs a lot of the advice I give to my patients here, so
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B
I love hearing that.
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A
Yeah, no, it's just really been really been Incredible that someone can take the science out there and make it actionable. And I love that. I love how you do that in a way that makes it really also digestible. So thank you for that.
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B
I appreciate that. I try. I put a lot of work into it. So it's good to hear that. Know you're using it with patience every day. That's awesome. I love it.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. And I love, like, how you focus on certain themes, like resilience, how you focus on. We're going to talk about all of these themes today, if you don't mind, because I think that they're very important to touch on. But I'd just like to start off with how'd you get into this?
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B
How did I get into this? Oh, man. You know, when I was in college. Well, to back up, I was just a book junkie when I was a kid, really into nonfiction, outdoor books. In college I was like, no one can actually be a writer, though. Like, that's not a real job. You live in your mom's basement, you work some random job, and then you just say, oh, yeah, I'm a writer. But I ended up. I was going to do a different sort of course in life. And then I took this non fiction writing class my senior year and I was like, I'm going to give this a try even if it fails. At least I gave it a try. So long story short, I started working in magazines. So I had worked at Scientific American and then GQ and Esquire. So I kind of had the science magazine, the men's magazines, and then I ended up at Men's Health. So it was kind of a mix of those two.
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A
You're an editor there, you're telling me.
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B
Yep, I was a writer and editor. I was kind of the guy that they would send to find interesting people doing interesting things in interesting places.
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A
Got it.
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B
That was kind of my shtick.
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A
Oh, yeah.
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B
Send them in to hang out with these you, you know, power lifters who have, you know, shaved heads and they're £300. And so I was there for about seven years. Then I ended up taking a job as a professor at unlv. And while I was there, because I was in the journalism department, half my job was the writing, half was the teaching. So started writing books because I always just love, like the. Not the long sort of narrative, can I tell someone a story but then weave in information they can use in their life?
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A
Right. So yeah.
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B
And then a few years ago, I stopped doing the professor thing full time, and now I'M just writing and.
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A
Oh, so you don't teach anymore at lv?
- [04:44]
B
No. Occasionally teach one class a year. There was a couple classes that I created that were kind of my babies and I was kind of the only one in the department who can teach them. So I'll still sometimes pop in and teach those also. You know, it's good to interact with younger people and I love it. It's really great to see students have things click.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And then they end up getting a really cool job because of it. So.
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A
Yeah, no, no, that's really great. And your in depth analysis of the science, probably some of that came from like, Scientific American, which is one of my favorite. I mean, you know, like in this digital world, most people don't subscribe to a lot of magazines anymore. Like, you can get all the magazines you want on like Apple News. But I love holding the magazine and so Scientific American is one of them. I still get it in the mail.
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B
Yeah, it's. It's the, it's the experience. And there's. You have an understanding just visually what's important and what's not. You get to the front of the magazine, it's the smaller stuff. You go, okay, this isn't quite as like, big and in depth, but it matters. You get to the middle of the magazine, it's like, okay, we got more length. And then at the end you're like, now we're going really in depth. I don't think the Internet has those cues that help people find that. So I'm. I'm still a magazine guy too.
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A
Yeah. What do you subscribe to?
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B
I like New Scientists. I will do. Sometimes I'll do the New Yorker. I also subscribe to New York Times Sunday. Yeah, I just go through that entire thing and I'll usually find really interesting stuff that I'm not expecting. So. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. New Scientist, another one of my favorites. And Popular Mechanics is my other.
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B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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A
I'm just so well written and topics like you never even think about thinking about, like quantum. Quantum physics and how it relates to, you know, consciousness. And I just, I just love it. I geek out on that.
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B
Yeah. Great.
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A
Amazing. So your first book. Let's talk about that one.
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B
Yeah.
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A
What prompted you to write it?
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B
So it was kind of a long story. I'll give you the whole. The whole detail.
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A
Yeah, please. Yeah.
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B
So part of it was I ended up getting sober when I was in my mid-20s and I realized my drinking when I was trying to quit. So I come from a long line of hellions all my family is. I sort of had this moment where I was. I knew I had a drinking problem, I was trying to quit, but I was always looking for the easy way out. I'm like, how can I fix this in a simple way? Never worked right. And only until I sort of had this moment where I go, oh, this is actually going to be uncomfortable. To change this habit, it's going to be really hard. So I leaned into that and it was really uncomfortable, but only in the short term. And then afterwards, my life starts improving, like across the board. Like everything in my life got better. And that happened when I was at Men's Health magazine and I sort of had this observation. Oh, like everything we write about in this magazine has the same exact trajectory, that in order to improve your life in the long run, you often have to do things that are uncomfortable in the short term. So exercise is the sort of classic example. Exercise is hard when you do it right. I don't think anyone really loves exercise. I think the people who say that have just deluded themselves into thinking that. But that's like one of the best levers you can pull for your health, for your long term health. But you can also apply it to losing weight and having to change your eating habits. Probably most of what you do with your patients, like the lifestyle stuff, it's going to be uncomfortable in the short term, but you get this long term benefit.
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A
Exactly.
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B
So I made that observation and then that just became starting to look at. Okay, well, if kind of going through this short term discomfort improves us in the long run, and then pulling back and going, well, wait a minute, like we've designed the world in the last hundred, 150 years to be so comfortable in every way.
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Right.
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We walk 4,000 steps on average today. Well, for all of time, humans walked about 20,000 steps on average.
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Right.
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And we were carrying stuff. There was rarely enough food. We had to go out and work for it. Getting from point A to point B, you had to walk. We were outside 100% of our lives. We were in tight communities, all these different things. And that's really just been woven out of our lives and supplanted with comfort just across the board. And so the book was really a question of, okay, well, what has that done to us? What are some of the most important discomforts that we've taken out of our lives and what can putting them back into our lives do for us?
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Yeah.
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B
And so the book just is a big investigation of that.
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A
Yeah. It's fantastic how you bring the evolutionary biology of this up as well, because these comforts have only existed for maybe 100 years. Right. And so it takes thousands and thousands of years for our genes to evolve past that. So we're really living in opposite to what we are evolved to live with. Right. And so like our. Our caveman ancestors, I always say, walked around all day long looking for food. And, you know, recreating some of those discomforts in our life can be a massive benefit to our health because it's like the way our genes want to be turned on and turned off. Yeah, right.
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B
Exactly.
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Exactly. And so. Go ahead.
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B
I was going to say, I mean, I think that so many of the chronic diseases we have today, they wouldn't exist if we were to still continue to do a lot of the things that we did in the past in the modern environment.
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Right.
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B
So then the question is like, okay, well, why don't we do those things? So the. The newsletter and my podcast are called 2%.
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A
2%. Right.
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B
And so this comes from a study that found that 2% of people take the stairs when there's also an escalator available.
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A
Wow. Number one, I did not know that that's where that came from, because I thought you were talking about making 2% improvements. But it's about 2% of people take the escalator.
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B
2% of people take the stairs when there's also an escalator available.
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A
Wow.
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B
So my argument is that 100% of people know taking the stairs is going to be better for them.
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Right.
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And yet 98% of people choose to do this easier, effortless thing that could actually harm them in the long run, given how little we move today. And so why is that? Well, it's because we are really wired to do the next, easiest, most comfortable thing for all of time. That was a survival lever to pull. Right. You didn't want to move any more than you had to because there was never enough food. You don't want to do these uncomfortable things because that would have put your life at risk. That's. That helped us for all the time. And then very recently, we engineered our world where we can do the next, easiest, most comfortable thing. And so those that drive instinct, whatever you want to call it, it really just backfires on us and leads us into a lot of problems.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. This sedentary time that we spend day over day just adds so much chronic disease and all cause mortality to our life. And so, you know, a lot of the things that you talk about in your book and also in your substack Is that what are some of those uncomfortable things that people can do in order to kind of negate the negative effects of being comfortable all day long? Right. And so I'd love to, like, dive into some of those with you. If what you found the most helpful, what would you say, like, your top three most helpful, uncomfortable things that people can do as far as exercise goes, that can really move the needle for
- [11:49]
B
them as far as exercise goes. One thing that I point out in the comfort crisis, those kind of, I would say, is caught on, is carrying weight. Specifically, rucking. Rocking is the most approachable way to carry that. So why is that important? Well, when you look at the human body, we're uniquely good at two things compared to other mammals. We're good at covering long distances. So we're uniquely adapted to endurance. And we're also unique in that we can carry weight for distance. We can carry weight while doing that. Right. There's no other animal that can just, like, pick up something and then walk with it for distance. And that really shaped us as a species. It allowed us to basically take over the world. We could take gear into the unknown, carry our kids so they're safer on and on. And we've really removed that from modern life. It's like you can push your kid in a stroller. You can have wheeled luggage. If you need to move something, you just put it in the car and drive it. But when you look at what happens when people carry weight, well, you're kind of getting two things. You're getting an endurance stimulus because you're walking, and you're also getting strength stimulus because you have load on your skeletal system. Now, again, the most. I would say the most approachable way into this is via rucking, which is putting some weight in the backpack, throwing it on your back, and going for a long walk.
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Exactly.
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Yeah. So that's one that I think has been. You know, I wrote that. It's interesting because in the comfort crisis, as I mentioned before, I like to have. I like my work to have a narrative behind it, a through line. So to report that book, I spent a month in the Arctic on this backcountry hunt, and I had that realization about how we're unique and that we can carry weight because we had to pack an animal back from camp.
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A
Oh, okay.
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We had successfully hunted this caribou, and now it's like, all right, now you got to get it back to camp. So you, you know, put the weight on your back. It's super.
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How many pounds is that? That's Heavy.
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It was a lot.
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Yeah.
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More than 100?
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More than 100.
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Yeah. Probably. If I had to put a number on, it was probably 120.
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Yeah.
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Very heavy. And the tundra's a nightmare to walk on.
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A
Oh, my gosh. I can't even imagine.
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Yeah.
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Was it just you? No. You were with other people?
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I was with two other guys. So they had about the same amount in their packs. Yeah. They're big animals. Forgot what I was. Where I was going with that.
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Yeah. You were saying how the narrative through your book was about carrying heavy things. Right. Yeah.
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And so where I came to that idea about caring is the reason that we are so good at endurance is a hunting context. So humans in the past would do this thing called persistence hunting where they would slowly run down animals in the heat. We're really good at cooling ourselves. We're not covered in fur, so we don't overheat on hot days. But most other mammals in the heat of the day, they're gonna overheat if they run too far. So we just basically run animals down. We would hunt them. So you got the endurance there. And then once you successfully hunt it, now you gotta carry back. So I was familiar with this research on endurance and persistence hunting and how that really shaped our bodies. But then it was the, oh, well, wait a minute. If you get the animal, you gotta carry it back. And I'm just walking on the tundra with the soul crushing load going. I don't think there's any other animals that can just carry weight. And that then led to the chapter about that and how the most approachable way to do that is rucking. And. Yeah, it just kind of took off as a social phenomenon.
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A
Yeah, yeah. It's massive social phenomenon now. Like you have entire companies that are just making ruck sacks. I have a goruck myself. I started off rucking with just a backpack and putting, you know, like weight in the back. Like bags of like flour actually is what I use.
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B
But. Awesome.
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A
But what do you use for rucksack?
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B
So I actually am part of a company that is just launching. We just launched about a month ago called Walkfully.
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A
Oh, okay.
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B
And so we make hip packs that are weighted.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So like a fanny pack makes it sound dorky. They're actually beautiful. And then we're gonna. We have soon coming out weight vests as well as packs.
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A
Okay.
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So I started it with a guy named Christopher Gavigan.
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A
Okay.
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B
He founded the Honest company.
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A
Yeah.
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So he's just got a great eye and great taste. Like they brought Me in for the science, and he's the business guy. And also. Ah, that's good. Like, here's how our design's gonna look.
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A
Oh, okay. Very cool. And why the fanny pack type of device? Is that a better distribution of weight?
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B
Yeah, it's a different distribution.
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A
It's a different distribution.
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B
Yeah. So there's different benefits to each. The hip pack is gonna be a little bit lighter.
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Okay.
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So it goes up to £16. If you want it to, you can add and remove weights. Also, it looks a little more normal in public, and that's a big thing, the weight vest. Sometimes people are like, what is this person wearing? You know, and you can wear it for a longer duration.
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A
Got it.
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B
So there's some evidence that suggests having load on your skeletal system in the form of a weight vest or whatever it might be getting in long durations of time. Seems to give unique benefits.
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A
And would you wear that with a backpack as well, or just on itself or both?
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B
I would just wear it on its own. You could definitely do both, though. Yeah, yeah.
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A
Okay.
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B
And some backpacks will have hip belts.
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They do, yeah.
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Which allows you to distribute some of that to the hips.
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Right.
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B
So part of what we're trying to do is the term rucking came out of the military. So when the average person Googles rucking, they'll see special forces soldiers doing crazy things. Like, when I told my mom about it, all the benefits, because it's especially, I think, good for women and aging populations. So she Googles it. She's like, michael, I'm not doing this. Who are these, like, soldiers? No way. And so part of it is trying to shift it more into letting people know it's very approachable thing to do and offering people different implements that they'll feel comfortable with that are at the appropriate loads. And.
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A
Yeah. And so I'm glad you mentioned this, because I think this is an absolutely critical part of the health routine of anyone that is, you know, 45, 50 plus. And the reason is, is because, number one is the load. And your skeletal system needs load in order to stay strong. I think one of the. One of the biggest problems with osteoporosis is obviously, like, hormonal decline, but also, there's, like, no load on our skeleton as humans right now anymore.
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B
Right.
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And it's that load that creates the strength of your bones through stimulating osteoblastic activity.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And without load, like, I. You know, Vonda, Right. She's a. She's a friend of mine, and she talks a lot about jumping in her Book unbreakable. And I think that creates that intense load every once in a while. But I find rucking is like one of the only times that you have any load on your skeleton anymore.
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B
Yeah. And there's some. I mean, there's studies go back and forth. Some studies will say, oh, rucking doesn't seem to improve bone density. Some says it does, but that's like with everything in bone density. Bone density is one of those wacky things where it's just. It's kind of a mixed bag.
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Yeah.
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But if we just try and be logical here, we're loading the skeletal system, we're getting some impact. We're loading it for a long duration.
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Right.
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B
You know, let's use common sense here. This is probably a good thing.
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A
Yeah, exactly.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I also believe that there's a huge benefit as far as balance and stability goes with rucking, especially rucking outside on trails. And like, I live in, you know, Malibu, very hilly country, by the way. We got to go to a ruck sometime in. In Malibu. And I like the red rocks out there in Vegas where you live.
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B
We'll do both.
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A
Ye. Why not both? So beautiful. But anyway, like, having a sack on is a completely different experience on some of this uneven terrain.
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B
Yeah. And especially you mentioned stability. So interestingly, with a backpack in particular, your back muscles actually activate less than they would were you standing without a load. That doesn't make sense.
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A
That doesn't make sense. Right.
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B
What the hell's going on? Your core actually activates much harder to pick up that slack. So it does add core stability and improve core strength, which I think can prevent a lot of injuries. Just helps with overall balance, stability, able to ability to recover from a fall. And so, I mean, it's one of those things where I'm not one of those people who say you should only rock. Of course not.
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A
Yeah.
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B
What I'm pointing out is that no one does this thing that humans can uniquely do that has all these benefits. So, I mean, even if you do it once a week, that's great. Not to mention it's very easy to add into your life.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So if I walk my dogs, I know I'm going to walk my dogs every day.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I have hunting dogs. They need an insane amount of exercise. I can just throw on a pack with some weight in it or the hip pack, whatever it is, and I'm going to get more from every step the walk is. Yeah, it's going to be a little more uncomfortable, but it's going to be worth it. I Think too. You mentioned loading. People always ask me, where do I start with the load? I tell people, start with about 10% of your body weight. See how that feels. If it's too heavy, reduce it a little bit. If it's way too light, bump it up a little bit. But 10 seems to be a good place to start once you adapt. I found 20% body weight is like a really good go to. That allows me to get a good enough distance, but also feel like I'm carrying a significant amount of weight.
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A
Right.
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B
And then also the other guideline is don't go over a third of your body weight. There's some military research that suggests once you push over a third, there can be some injury risks. Now that all said, the other nice thing about rucking is way safer than running.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Like, running's great. I love it. At the same time, the injury date on running is, like, not great.
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A
Yeah, yeah, it is a lot. And plus, you know, you get outside, you enjoy. Hopefully you're doing it outside and enjoy nature. But a lot of people also put on a weight like a weight belt or. Or weighted west while they're on, like a treadmill too.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Is that also beneficial?
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B
Totally.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
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B
And with a. We'll. We'll kind of get in the dorky weeds here.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You can go a little heavier if you do it on a treadmill. So when I. I do a lot of outdoor stuff, kind of wacky expedition type stuff. One of my favorite things to do is put the treadmill at like 15% incline.
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Yes.
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Which is for most, that's about as high as it'll go. Set it to like two to three miles an hour. And you can just load up a backpack with a significant amount of weight. And you just walk for like 40 minutes. You will feel like a pack mule, but it is one of the best things. And building endurance, strength, overall fitness is great.
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A
Yeah. And it's so much easier on your joints, I think, than running on the treadmill forever, like zone three or four, which is what I used to do for 10 years. And like, why am I not getting any better? VO2 max. Why am I not losing weight? And I just found that once I did the incline at a much slower speed. And now with a weighted vest, I just get much, much more out of it. Even as far as, like, fat burning activity.
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B
Yeah, it's. Studies are small on fat burning.
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A
Yep.
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B
But there's a really interesting study on backcountry hunters in Alaska where these researchers basically track these guys weight, fat Mass and then these guys went out for, I think it was a 12 day hunt. So for people who aren't familiar with backcountry hunting, you're carrying in all your gear, you're walking around the mountains all day. These packs are heavy. Once these guys got back, they retested them and they had lost, I think, an average of 10 pounds. But it all came from fat.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And they actually managed to gain a tiny bit of muscle. So it was insignificant in the study. But you would think in the context of weight loss, you're probably going to lose some muscle.
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A
Right.
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B
When people lose weight, vast majority of the time they're going to lose some percentage muscle.
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A
Right.
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B
That didn't happen. And I think it's because there's something about just having weight on you all the time.
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A
Sure.
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B
Where your body just kind of go, this is, you know, simplifying this. But your body just kind of goes, hey, maybe I should hang on to this muscle because like, I'm having to carry this thing all day. And if I'm going to have to lose weight, like, let's get rid of the fat, because that's just weighing me down.
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A
What do you think about some of these weighted vests that are built to like wear around all day? They're like more fashionable, they're lower weight, but people wear them like all day long. Do you think those are beneficial?
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B
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's great.
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A
I think ion makes one, right?
- [24:08]
B
Yeah, there was, there's. I've. I saw, I saw a guy the other day, he was wearing a vest and it almost looks like a really techy like ski vest.
- [24:16]
A
Yeah.
- [24:16]
B
And he was like, here, hold this. You know, and I grab it and he's like, it's ten pounds. That actually looks good too.
- [24:23]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's an ion one. Yes. So when I was on Gary Bracker's podcast, he gave me one.
- [24:28]
B
It was Gary who did that to me.
- [24:30]
A
Dude, it was Gary. Yeah. Yeah. So he gave me one. I've been wearing it. I actually love it. I feel like it's. I feel like it does allow me to stay in like this little bit of a fat burning mode. Maybe I'm just, I'm tricking myself. But I try to wear it around as much as possible.
- [24:46]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think just more. And there's. Oh man, I'm forgetting the name of this, of this theory. But effectively, when I mentioned those studies where they'll wear it for a longer amount of time, it seems to do something in the bones. Where it ends up reducing appetite. I forget the name of the theory. If I think about it. I'll bring it back up. You can just perfectly edit this.
- [25:11]
A
Sort of sound smarter. Yeah, just send me a voice note, I'll edit it in.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah, perfect.
- [25:15]
A
Like you said it, you mentioned in your, I think one of your substacks, there was a Harvard study recently on rucking as well. Is that correct? Or walking or wrecking.
- [25:24]
B
There was. Well, this was actually. This is probably from a conversation I had with Dan Lieberman.
- [25:29]
A
Yes.
- [25:29]
B
Who is. He's in the anthropology department at Harvard. He's actually one of the main authors on that paper I mentioned earlier that found humans evolved to run long distances as part of persistence hunting. I think it's called endurance and the Evolution of Homo or something. It's a 2004 paper in Nature. Really smart guy, really wise mind in the exercise space. And this, this came from a conversation with him where we were just talking about, you know, what do you think is the ideal distance for people to cover a week? And I'm like, this guy knows, he's read like all the exercise literature. He's like, you know, I think, you know, for me it's 13 miles at least a week. And if you kind of start to do the math on the timing of that, you're like, oh, I could see that you probably doubled the physical activity guidelines, which, you know, the guidelines I think do a ton of good, but once you double them, you start to see a lot more good and then the benefits start to drop off. So, like, covering 13 miles a week I think is a good goal for people. Yeah. I mean, if you're totally sedentary, I wouldn't start at 13 immediately. You could probably walk 13 though. Yeah. I mean, that's the wonderful thing about walking is like, everyone can walk, Everyone
- [26:39]
A
can walk, Everyone can walk. Creatine isn't just the most researched supplements. It's actually proven to deliver results. So whether you want stronger muscles or you want a sharper mind, creatine is the energy source you're going to need to get there. Momentous. Just introduced signature spec creatine. It's their highest quality creatine to date. It has 10 times fewer impurities and 2 to 5 times stricter heavy metal limits than even other premium creatines. And it's all backed by six stages of testing and certification. Not to mention the ultra fine micronized powder makes it so easy to mix into your favorite drink or smoothie. Try it yourself@livemomentous.com Dr. Shaw. And you'll get up to 35% off your first order using the code. Dr. Shaw, You mentioned also in some of your writings about the optimal number of steps to walk on a daily basis. And I remember reading something that your wife does like 30,000 steps a day. Is that true?
- [27:48]
B
Dude, she's insane. The story was literally titled my wife Colin the insane Walker. So this was all prompted by a corporate step challenge. She is competitive as hell.
- [28:02]
A
Okay.
- [28:02]
B
She has this lady she works with who is very active. And Leah's like, I gotta beat this lady, I gotta beat this lady. So she ended up getting a treadmill desk under and she would literally just walk on it all day and she would look at her step counts at the end of the day and be like, 30,000.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah.
- [28:20]
B
So. And she did that for probably a year. It was just all day. You'd just say this, her walking, but it got her really healthy.
- [28:28]
A
Yeah.
- [28:28]
B
So I think like those treadmill desks, I mean you don't have to do 30,000, but finding ways to sneak activity into your life.
- [28:36]
A
Absolutely.
- [28:37]
B
In a way that is practical because we have engineered activity out of the world. It's very strange in the grand scheme of time and space. So you have to do some strange things to rediscover it. So that could be a treadmill desk. One piece of advice I like to give people that has seemed to have resonated among people who read the newsletter is if you have a work call, pop in your headphones and take a walk. I had a lady who was a reader, she was only getting about 3,000 steps a day. Took a lot of calls for work, but she was taking them sitting. You know, she just had this realization, I do have to take the calls.
- [29:10]
A
Yeah, you don't.
- [29:11]
B
Anyway, I don't have to take them sitting.
- [29:13]
A
Right.
- [29:13]
B
So she just started walking and she did. And she got up past 10,000. And I mean the data on that is insane. It's like a 50% drop in all cause mortality in some. It's crazy. And she didn't, she didn't have to go, okay, after work, now I have to drive to the gym and do this thing and then drive home. Like it didn't cut into her life.
- [29:31]
A
Exactly.
- [29:32]
B
It's finding like those little wins like this, like the staircase. Yeah, right. You got to get to the second floor. Which path are you going to choose exactly?
- [29:41]
A
I mean, the more I look at the research is really having that intense one hour workout in the morning and getting that out of the way every morning. And just going all out. But then you go to the office and you sit all day for eight hours. You almost negate the benefits of the workout during the day. However, if you build in these exercise snacks. There's a lot of research now around this exercise snack concept. I mean, the benefits is almost better for a lot of people than having an intense workout a couple times a week. Right. And so it's the, to your point, it's the constant motion throughout the day. If you build it in and you find little wins like this, that can really add up. And it's not that hard when you do it that way.
- [30:20]
B
Yeah, I think you have to be, you have to be creative a little bit. And I think we do. You know, exercise is a concept we invented after the Industrial revolution. People never just moved for the sake of it until, you know, in the 50s or I think, I think it was the 50s, we start to realize that, oh, these people who sit all day seem to be getting more sick than the people who don't. There's a study on London bus workers. So they studied drivers versus the ticket takers. These are double decker buses. The ticket takers are going up and down the stairs all day. They're walking around the bus all day. Well, it turns out the bus drivers are getting heart attacks at like a much higher rate. So then you go, okay, well what do we do? I guess we'll just start to move for the sake of it. Let's call it exercise. It's a very strange thing, but we still, you know, we have to do it to be healthy. But that said, if you can just find ways to move more in your daily life, like there's nothing unique about the 30 minutes you spend in the gym versus, oh, I had to get from point A to point B, so I walked instead. Like, exactly. It's all the same stimulus.
- [31:24]
A
Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I think the more people kind of lean into that, I think there's a lot of focus that people have on what is my exercise routine. How many times I'm going to go to the gym, meeting with my trainer and they forget the micro movements all day long.
- [31:39]
B
Yeah.
- [31:39]
A
And we just got to like change our mindset around that. Just as a population get healthy again.
- [31:44]
B
Yeah. And they'll take the escalator up to the gym on the second floor to go run on the treadmill. Exactly. Like it's insane.
- [31:50]
A
It's insane. Exactly. So moving on from like exercise, there's other discomforts that you talk about in your book that also can add to Benefits, whether it be emotional health or physical health, mental health, et cetera. And you talk a lot about like solitude, for example. Right. Can you talk a little bit more about that? I'm interested in hearing your take on solitude.
- [32:10]
B
Yeah, I covered this actually in two books. I think it's that important. I guess, you know, societally there's a big focus on loneliness, which I think is important. But to me loneliness is. I want to be around other people, but I can't. For whatever reason, something's sort of blocking me. Solitude is different in the sense that you're taking time alone to learn something about yourself and go inward and sort of explore, you know, who am I, what are, what are, what are these big like questions in my life? And when you look at the research on solitude, it seems to be really good for people. So I like that there's this focus on loneliness. At the same time, I think we've pushed so hard, like you need to be around people all the time. It's like, no, you need to be good with yourself as well and use that time alone for productivity. I talked to a researcher for the Comfort Crisis and he pointed out, look, people come and go. There are going to be times in life where people come and go, whatever. If your happiness and your well being is tied entirely to those people and they leave and you can't be alone, well, you got a problem. Yeah, right. There's the, there's the quote, I think from Pascal, who said all of man's problems stem from his ability to sit alone in a room with himself. So to me that's like this, this like deep work and it is uncomfortable to be alone at first. But I think once you get through that and you start to become okay with that, I think that's like a really, it's a good platform to start to build mental health. And what does that mean to me? And I've also found, because a lot of my work, like I'll go places, I'll do reporting alone in these wacky places, wilderness, like, you know, far off countries, totally alone. And you're like, oh, I feel totally alone right now. But those things, I've learned so much about myself from those experiences and I'm okay with being alone.
- [34:06]
A
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think a lot of people, especially in today's society, when you don't need to be alone because you have your phone right in your hand and you take it out immediately, like you see people in line for like five seconds and they can't even like not stand there for five seconds without their phone in their hand and scrolling. Right. And so we don't ever have those moments in the day where we are just with our brain by itself. Right?
- [34:34]
B
Yeah.
- [34:34]
A
And I always tell people, like, you know, do you get great ideas in the shower when you're taking a shower in the morning? It's like that. You can replicate that many times during the day if you just are alone with yourself. Right?
- [34:46]
B
Yeah.
- [34:47]
A
And so I get some of my best work done with my phone in a different room, and me have nothing to do.
- [34:52]
B
Yeah, same way. And I think there's. In the book, I talk about how boredom is another discomfort that we've engineered out of life.
- [34:59]
A
Right.
- [35:00]
B
So from an evolutionary context, boredom is this psychological discomfort that basically tells us whatever you're doing with your time right now, the return on your time is worn thin. So go do something else. Go do something else.
- [35:15]
A
Got it.
- [35:16]
B
In the past, I would argue that something else was often productive.
- [35:19]
A
Right.
- [35:19]
B
So I'll give you the example. Let's say that you and I are hunting. It's, you know, 10,000 years ago. We need food to survive, but no animals are coming through. We're just sitting on a hillside waiting for animals to come through. Well, boredom would kick on, be uncomfortable. We go do something else.
- [35:35]
A
Right.
- [35:35]
B
Well, we need the food. So we're like, well, why don't we go look at this other area for berries? Why don't we go find some tubers, whatever it might be.
- [35:40]
A
Yeah.
- [35:41]
B
Today, when we feel boredom, though, we got a million easy effortless escapes from it.
- [35:46]
A
Exactly.
- [35:46]
B
That are immediate.
- [35:48]
A
So true.
- [35:48]
B
Right. People pull out their phone, you turn on Netflix, you go sit behind the computer, check your email for the 99th million time of the day, whatever it might be. But when you look at research on boredom, it is linked to creativity. There's some really interesting studies around that. It's linked to ideas. It's also linked to productivity in some cases. So people who go through boredom, when they get back to their office or their work setting, it's like their mind just had time to just kind of float, be free, wander, and then they can better focus afterwards. And when you look at the data on how much time we spend using digital media, it's like more than 12 hours a day on average.
- [36:26]
A
12 hours.
- [36:27]
B
So that's from TV, cell phones, computers, all these different things.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah, we're pretty much on some sort of screen all day long for the most part.
- [36:36]
B
All this stuff is new, literally, for all of human history. We didn't have any of this Stuff in our life, and now it's become our lives. And so my message is there's a lot of talk around how you need to reduce your phone screen time, which I think is good. Problem is, is that when people take two hours off their phone screen time, they get bored and they go, oh, I'll just turn on Netflix. That's the same thing.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah.
- [37:02]
B
So I argue, instead of thinking less phone screen time, just think more boredom. Where can I have moments in my life where I'm away from media, where I'm with myself, I'm letting my mind do its thing and I'm just unstimulated. For me, I usually will walk every day and just leave my phone at home. Just like, I get my best ideas from those walks.
- [37:20]
A
For sure.
- [37:21]
B
Kind of like you said, the shower idea, right?
- [37:23]
A
Exactly, exactly. So it also ties into, like, what you wrote about in your second book, which is, like, humans are also wired to, like, always want more, more, more, more, Right. And so, like, I think that's part of boredom, is that when we're sitting there bored, we're not, like, getting something else. Right? We're not getting some new thing, whether it be mental stimulation or some physical item. Right? And so talk about, like, scarcity and how that's beneficial.
- [37:50]
B
So that book, I mean, the big question in that book is everyone knows everything is fine in moderation, and yet we all suck at it.
- [37:57]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [37:58]
B
And so why is that? Like I said, a lot of my work goes back to evolution. I do think for all of human history, we never really had enough of the things that we really needed to survive. Right. Food was scarce, information was scarce, possessions were scarce, all these things were scarce. So we evolved. If you were the person who, when you had the opportunity to eat more food than you needed, Right. To hoard more stuff than you needed, that would give you a survival advantage. But now we just have plenty of all that stuff, yet we're plopped in with these ancient genes telling us more and more and more in a world where we can fulfill that. And so you think of how rampant obesity is because we're programmed to eat more food than we need. That helped us survive for a lot of time because there was famine all the time with possessions. The average home now contains 10,000 to 50,000 items with information. This was a stat I came across. I can't remember the study source, but. And I think they were having to do some guesswork here, but it found that the average person today sees more information in one day than a person in the 1400s would have encountered their entire life.
- [39:11]
A
Wait, in one day we see more information.
- [39:13]
B
Yeah, yeah. More new information.
- [39:15]
A
Wow.
- [39:16]
B
You just think about all the scrolling, all the. I mean, think of, like, even just driving in here to the studio. How many ads did I see? The radio's on. There's a bajillion podcasts I could listen to, whatever it might be. Like, we're just in a sea of information. And so this is like, all these things are great.
- [39:30]
A
Yeah.
- [39:30]
B
Right. People are living longer, we're surviving more. But I do think we need times where we pull back from that and just kind of be. Be with ourselves and realize that we have this impulse for more when we probably don't need it anymore.
- [39:44]
A
So what are some practical ways people can kind of bring this into their life?
- [39:48]
B
So for a lot of that book, Scarcity Brain, I'll give you some background.
- [39:53]
A
Yeah.
- [39:54]
B
So what kind of really set me off reporting that book is living in Las Vegas.
- [40:00]
A
The opposite of scarcity.
- [40:01]
B
The opposite of scarcity and particularly slot machines. So people will play slot machines for hours on end, even though everyone knows the house always wins, the longer you
- [40:13]
A
play, you will lose.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah, you'll lose. Town wasn't built on winners.
- [40:17]
A
Right.
- [40:18]
B
And so why do people do this thing? Right. So I end up at this laboratory that is a working casino. It's like, literally built a casino, but it's used for research on human behavior. And I talked to this slot machine designer.
- [40:32]
A
So they have a lab in Vegas.
- [40:34]
B
Yes.
- [40:35]
A
Obviously, they're studying how to keep you addicted. And sitting there on that, they're studying
- [40:39]
B
how to make everything more engaging.
- [40:41]
A
Wow.
- [40:42]
B
Every part of the casino experience more engaging. And so I asked this guy, it's like, okay, well, why. Why do people get into slot machines? Like, what is this? And he goes, oh, I'll show you now. And he just takes me over to slot machine. And long story short is a slot machine works because of three parts. So one is opportunity. You can think about it as, like a habit loop. First part is opportunity. So you have an opportunity to get something of value. The second part is unpredictable rewards, meaning you know you'll get that thing of value at some point, but you don't know when, and you don't know how valuable it's going to be. And then the third part is quick repeatability. So you try, you see if you got the thing, and you can immediately retry. So to put it in slot machine terms, you can win money. You play a game, you could lose. You could win a dollar, you could win $100,000 crazy range of outcomes. And then right when the game is over, boom, you're back into another one. So that system, which in the book I call it the scarcity loop, it really got honed in in Las Vegas in the 1980s. So before 1980, not many people played slot machines. This guy named Syed came in and he sort of figured out how are we going to tweak this to be optimal? Once he figures that out, slot machines just overtake casino floors.
- [41:59]
A
Wow.
- [41:59]
B
And people now spend more money on slot machines than they do books, movies and music combined.
- [42:05]
A
What do you mean? Like in America? Yeah. No.
- [42:08]
B
Yeah.
- [42:08]
A
Are you kidding me?
- [42:09]
B
It's an insane industry. It's an insane industry.
- [42:13]
A
Oh, I had no idea.
- [42:14]
B
So but then what happens is you see all these other industries go, what the hell's happening in Las Vegas?
- [42:23]
A
Why are the social media industry.
- [42:25]
B
Right, Exactly.
- [42:26]
A
Yeah.
- [42:27]
B
So you see this system being put in all these different forms of technology. So that's what makes social media work. You have an opportunity to get a like or see something interesting. You don't know when it's going to happen. You don't know how many likes you're going to get on a post and you can check and recheck or you can scroll and re scroll for that like one video. It's what makes dating apps work.
- [42:47]
A
Yeah.
- [42:48]
B
So what made Tinder blow up is the guy who founded it was like literally we just made it a slot machine at dating. Once we figured out that slot machine ification, it took off.
- [42:59]
A
Right.
- [42:59]
B
It's being put in some financial apps. Sports betting is a big one where it's in especially with the quick betting you can do. Shopping websites are using it now, especially with like the quick buys. And like if you've ever seen a spinning wheel on a website.
- [43:11]
A
I have. Yeah.
- [43:12]
B
Those increase, I hate that thing. Those increase conversion sevenfold.
- [43:16]
A
What?
- [43:17]
B
Yeah.
- [43:17]
A
Oh my God, sevenfold.
- [43:19]
B
So you just start to see this Vegas ification being put in all these different technologies to push us in to more and this is to back up. Then the big question is, okay, well why do we get hooked on these like sort of random reward games for this system? I talked to this researcher, Thomas zental, and he's OG psychologist. Started studying psychology in like 1968. Kind of like came out of the B.F. skinner line. And he explained it to me like this. He's like, if you think about human evolution and this applies to all different animals, we evolve searching for food. If you don't find food, you're going to die. Like, that is the game that we had to play every day. So let's say humans go to one place. Oh, there's no food there. Okay. We'll go to another place. No food there. Third place. Ding, ding, ding, Jackpot. It's the exact same thing as slam. She.
- [44:11]
A
Right.
- [44:11]
B
It's like opportunities to find food. You know it's out there somewhere, but you don't know where it is and you don't know how much there's going to be.
- [44:17]
A
Right.
- [44:17]
B
And if you don't find any, you immediately repeat.
- [44:19]
A
Right.
- [44:20]
B
So we really evolved to like fall into those random reward games. If we hadn't, we probably would have died off. But now that just gets applied to
- [44:29]
A
all sorts of stuff, selling us things and social media and everything. That's. It turns out like humans are actually wired very simply.
- [44:38]
B
Very simply.
- [44:39]
A
Yeah. We think we have this complicated brain up here on the top of our heads. But the wiring is actually very simple and it's very easy to manipulate it. And even when you recognize you're being manipulated, you still fall into it anyway. Right. Like I fall into scrolling on my phone for sometimes a while and I'm like, how did that happen? Yeah, that's what I talk about on my podcast. Not to do it. I just did it.
- [45:00]
B
Yeah. I think to me it's like for in my own life, it was realizing, oh, once you open up the doors of the machine and see how the machine works, it at least gives you the ability to be more aware for sure. So it gives you a better choice. Because a lot of these things that we get hooked on, they are fun in the short term.
- [45:19]
A
Sure.
- [45:20]
B
So if you can recognize that and just accept, okay, I'm going to have a little bit of fun for a minute. But the problem is when people get sucked in, they start to have these long term consequences.
- [45:28]
A
Right, Right, absolutely. Yeah. I think knowing is half the battle and then the other half the battle, you just gotta fight it internally with yourself.
- [45:36]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [45:38]
A
You know, another thing that you talk about that I wanted to ask you about too, is morning routines. Let's just talk about morning routines in general. And I would love to hear just your take on morning routines in general. And then how do you apply that to your life right now?
- [45:50]
B
My take on morning routines is that I think it would be useful to ask what's the larger point of this routine? What is your ultimate goal? So for me, my goal, I'm a writer. I want to write words and books. So then I asked myself, okay, what helps my writing? Well, it Turns out it's like sitting in front of the computer and writing. Right? So I think sometimes people, those can get really noisy for a really vague goal and asking yourself, what is my ultimate goal? And does. Does it serve that?
- [46:20]
A
Yeah.
- [46:20]
B
Do you remember the SNL skit, Stefan?
- [46:23]
A
No, I don't remember that one.
- [46:24]
B
No, I won't use the joke then, because you would understand it. But basically there was a SNL skit where this guy would be talking about nightclubs in New York and he'd be like, it has everything. And then he'd just start naming off all this crazy stuff that'd be in these nightclubs. I feel like that has happened. There's been like a Stefanification of morning routines where people are just putting in all this random stuff they feel like they have to do.
- [46:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [46:45]
B
But it becomes noise. Now, that said, if you find something that definitely helps you, that's great. But I would just try and say, okay, just be a little more. Don't immediately take in, oh, this random person did this thing in the routine. It's like, well, why did they do it? Are their goals the same as mine? Xyz?
- [47:02]
A
Yeah. That's a really good nuanced view of it because I do agree, like, people are hearing all these things that they should put in their morning routine and they're just doing it blindly. But what's the why behind that? Right? Yeah. And so for me, you know, I actually believe morning routines kind of changed my life completely because I was one of those people that I had no routine throughout my day. And the things I was supposed to be doing to move the needle, I never did them. Just because my day got out of my control once it hit like 8 o' clock in the morning. Right. So Hal Elrond, you probably read the book Miracle Morning. He was the first book I read on morning routines. And it's like, let me just give this a try. So for 30 minutes, I did the routine that he suggested and it did add those pieces to my life. And it got me exercising again, got me really doing some spiritual work again, which then benefited me and my mindset. But I do agree, I she, you know, benefited so much from my morning routine that I was one of those people that added a bunch of stuff into it randomly. And then I'm like, why am I doing all this? You know, and so I think you're absolutely right. It's like, what is the end goal? But I do think, like you know, we said earlier, humans are wired very simply. And in the morning first thing in the morning is when you have most of your wiring still intact. And that's the best time to get some stuff done that you need to get done. Right.
- [48:18]
B
Yeah. And I. Well, I think what's great about your example is, is you had an awareness that things were.
- [48:23]
A
Yes.
- [48:24]
B
Okay, something's off.
- [48:25]
A
Right.
- [48:25]
B
Let me try this and see if it helps me. And it helped you. Right, Right. I heard someone smart is writing a book called N of One.
- [48:33]
A
Yes, thank you.
- [48:34]
B
That's a great example of that.
- [48:35]
A
Yes.
- [48:36]
B
You figured out this thing helped you.
- [48:37]
A
Right.
- [48:37]
B
And then you started to tweak it and then you realize, oh, wait, I've done these things that maybe it's not helping me anymore. So it's that self awareness rather than just I took in this random information. I. I just did it without really asking any questions and.
- [48:49]
A
Yeah, right, absolutely. And I think that, you know, I think for a lot of people it just depends on where you are and where you want to be. And just like you were mentioning, like really taking a look at, like, am I in a good place or not? And if I'm not, like, what are the things I need to improve? And making very mindfully putting the habits and routines into your morning routine that achieve that. Yeah, right. It's kind of. Kind of what you're recommending. You know, one of the other things that you talked about too. Sorry, I've just had this list of questions for you and I'm only going to get through like one tenth of my list badly.
- [49:21]
B
It tells me I'm talking to you. I'm telling people, don't do too much. And here I'm just babbling.
- [49:26]
A
No, I love it. This just means I gotta have you back on again. But you talk about farmers and I wanted to make sure you know that we talked about this too. You recommend looking at farmers and kind of what they do and incorporating some of that into our life. Why?
- [49:42]
B
This is probably from this amazing study on the Amish.
- [49:45]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [49:47]
B
These researchers studied the Amish and when you look at the Amish, their diet, not great. It's a lot of like butter and just, I mean, it's a heavy, heavy diet. But they have, they seem to have wonderful health. Like obesity rate is low, strong community, they're outside all the time. So I feel like that's kind of this population that has figured out, hey, we're kind of doing things that humans are meant to do and it manages us, to manage us, to keep us healthy, despite the fact that we're doing this one thing where we're frying all sorts of stuff. So the lesson to me is, you know, movement can offset a lot of. A lot of bad habits. Time outside is good for us. Time where you're with people in community, but they also spend a lot of time solo, too.
- [50:31]
A
They do.
- [50:31]
B
You know, so it's this balance.
- [50:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I think they spend a lot of time solo farming. And when you're farming, you're lifting heavy things too. Right. I mean, I think that's. That's a critical thing there, too, is I actually bought a couple of, like, weighted sacks just to carry from, you know, one side of my yard to the other.
- [50:52]
B
That's great.
- [50:53]
A
You know, and just. It's uncomfortable carrying this thing because it's huge and it's like you feel like you're going to drop it all the time. But I feel like just. It keeps you present. Like you're. You're navigating how to hold this large, uncomfortable, weird thing that keeps, like, changing shape and. And carrying it because. Because it's really heavy, too. You know, it's like £50, I think, is what it is.
- [51:13]
B
And, yeah, I love that. I mean, I think that a lot of people would benefit from carrying things that are sort of odd objects.
- [51:20]
A
Right.
- [51:20]
B
I think sandbags are very approachable, things like that, because the load is shifting a little bit, so you have to, like, balance out your.
- [51:26]
A
That's what I'm carrying. Sandbags. Yeah.
- [51:28]
B
It's like your stabilizing muscles are going to have to figure that out. It's also. I mean, people use the term functional exercises.
- [51:35]
A
Yes.
- [51:36]
B
That's the functional exercise.
- [51:37]
A
That is a functional exercise. Right.
- [51:39]
B
People have to pick up stuff and move it. Right. That is, like, exactly what that is. And it's also when people ask me, because I write a lot about Fitness on 2%. Okay. What's the one piece of exercise equipment I should get? I usually tell them a sandbag. It's cheap.
- [51:55]
A
I learned that from you. I'm just thinking, I'm like, why did I buy this sandbag? I read something you wrote.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah.
- [52:01]
A
I did one of your workouts that you post, and. Yeah. So sand. That's. It came from you.
- [52:05]
B
I love it.
- [52:06]
A
Cheap. Yeah.
- [52:07]
B
You can change the load.
- [52:08]
A
Right.
- [52:09]
B
You can add more sand when you get stronger. Also, for people who live in a city and have an apartment, like, if you drop that on the floor, you're fine. It's not gonna, like, bang up your floors or, you know, wake up your neighbors. Really just approachable. And you can use it for everything. Yeah, it's great. Yeah.
- [52:24]
A
Yeah. I just love this concept of, you know, you're still working out but you're. Now you're doing it instead with. Instead of dumbbells, which I still of course have dumbbells, but I have a rucksack now. I have sandbags, I have a sled that I push around to and pull around, you know, and that's also uncomfortable. Like I'll trip like trying to pull this thing. And I'm like, that's probably a good thing because like, this is a movement that I should not forget how to do is pull things. Right. And I think as you get older, you just stop doing that. Like, I don't know, like as a teenager, as a kid, you're like constantly moving weird things around and doing stuff and you just stop doing that.
- [53:01]
B
Yeah.
- [53:01]
A
And you get stuck in this seated position and. And what I learned from you is like, do the opposite of that.
- [53:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think, I think when you look at, you know, use the example of the dumbbell and like I have a garage gym. I have like the dumbbells, the barbells, whatever. But it's not like perfectly calibrated.
- [53:18]
A
Yeah.
- [53:19]
B
Perfectly balanced. There's something to picking up something that's not your perfect choice. Right. It's going to move on you. You're going to have to react to that. There's a great anecdote from some of my special forces friends who. And they say when you look at who makes it through special Forces, like, you'll get these guys who are ripped. They look like bodybuilders. They've been in the gym doing their three sets of ten. And then you'll get this like cohort of just farm boys. You know, they're from like Nebraska, Montana. They're a little doughy. You can't see their abs. Like, the farm boys make it through at a much higher rate than the people who've been training in the air conditioned gym. Perfectly balanced loads they've picked. It's because the farm boys are out in nature doing hard things, moving loads that are unpredictable and they're just tough as hell.
- [54:10]
A
Yeah, yeah. That makes complete and total sense.
- [54:14]
B
Yeah.
- [54:14]
A
I love it. So obviously I have to have you back because we just did not have enough time to cover everything. But you know, for the audience out there that's listening to this, I learned a lot from the 2% substack, so I highly recommend people subscribe to it. And then where else can people learn from you, Michael?
- [54:32]
B
Substack's probably the hub. I have a podcast but we send out the podcast through the substack so you get it there too. And then the books are the Comfort Crisis and Scarcity Brain and the substack is twopct.com yep tw o pct and
- [54:47]
A
what's next for you?
- [54:48]
B
I'm working on another book. It's in the editing process so yeah, that's always fun.
- [54:54]
A
Any hints on what it's going to be about?
- [54:56]
B
A little bit of a follow up to the Comfort Crisis, but more mindset resilience. So yeah, it's been fun.
- [55:03]
A
Can't wait. I love it. I love it. Well thank you for all the great information you put out there and can't wait to have you on again.
- [55:08]
B
Yeah, thanks to you.
- [55:09]
A
Awesome. Thank you. I really enjoyed that conversation with Michael. Here are the top five things I learned Number one Embrace beneficial discomfort for your long term health Our modern world is engineered for our comfort, but our bodies are designed for challenges. Reintroducing small, consistent discomforts, like even just walking or carrying some weight, can significantly improve our long term health and resilience. Number two Rucking is a foundational human movement. Carrying weight while walking, called rucking, taps into our unique evolutionary ability to carry loads over distances. It builds endurance, strengthens our bones and improves our core stability, offering us comprehensive benefits often missing in modern exercise routines. Number three Small movements add up to big health gains. Don't underestimate exercise snacks like taking calls while you're on a walk or or choosing the chairs. These micro movements throughout the day can be more impactful for overall health and longevity than an intense isolated workout. Number four Your body adapts to constant load. Wearing a weighted vest or hip pack throughout the day, even with lighter loads, can encourage your body to retain muscle and burn fat more efficiently as it's constantly adapting to the added demand. Number five Challenge that comfort instinct. Humans are wired to seek the easiest path, a survival mechanism that is ingrained in our DNA from the past. Consciously choosing this slightly harder option, like walking instead of driving short distances, can counteract this instinct and lead to better health outcomes. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you like this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best, and it's always important to seek their guidance.