Faith Matters Podcast Episode 123

Title: Behind the Scenes at Faith Matters
Host: Faith Matters Foundation
Guests: Bill Turnbull, Aubrey Chaves, Tim Chaves, Zach Davis
Date: July 17, 2022

Episode Overview

This special “behind the scenes” episode features Faith Matters founders and team members—Bill Turnbull, Aubrey Chaves, Tim Chaves, and new executive director Zach Davis—in a candid, free-flowing roundtable discussion. Together, they reflect on the origins, mission, and evolution of Faith Matters, sharing personal stories from their own spiritual journeys and faith crises. The conversation delves into their distinctive expansive approach to Latter-day Saint faith, thoughtful engagement with complex and thorny issues, upcoming initiatives, and the community they hope to foster.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin Story of Faith Matters (02:04–11:50)

• Bill Turnbull shares how his personal faith journey, shaped by a nourishing church upbringing and later challenged during college and missionary service, inspired him to seek a broader, more expansive approach to faith.

• He describes early experiences (including being part of a ward with intellectuals who were temporarily disinvited from Sunday school) that highlighted the need for safe spaces to wrestle with real questions in a faithful way.

  “There is a way to honestly approach real questions in a real faithful way.” — Bill Turnbull (09:30)

• The founders envisioned Faith Matters as the type of space they themselves longed for: an environment to explore the power of faith, ask hard questions, and be transformed by the process.

2. The “Edge of Inside” and What Drew Others to Faith Matters (11:50–18:27)

• Tim Chaves and Aubrey Chaves recount their own faith crises, which, in the internet age, brought destabilizing new information and deep uncertainty.

• Discovering thinkers like Terrell Givens modeled peaceful, open engagement with uncertainty and questions, offering a sustaining third way.

  “Up until that point, I used certainty and faith interchangeably… It was really destabilizing to start being honest with myself about questions because it felt like what it meant is I didn’t have faith and so there was so much shame… [Faith Matters] felt like the first place that we could really rest inside all of our questions.” — Aubrey Chaves (15:00)

• The team relates strongly to the David Brooks idea of living at the “edge of inside”—loyal to their tradition, but also willing to question and broaden it from within.

3. Purposefully Expansive, Not Apologetic: The Faith Matters Approach (19:04–31:48)

• Bill Turnbull distinguishes Faith Matters from apologetics: “We play offense… confident enough in the truths that the gospel affords us that we can also look at… what work we still have to do.”
• The team applies the “Gottman Ratio”—aiming for at least five affirming statements for every critical one, promoting a loving, honest relationship with the church that is neither naïvely positive nor toxically negative.
• Zach Davis shares how Faith Matters’ joyful, forward-looking spirit attracted him after his own difficult faith journey and while running “Second Sunday” conversation groups in Boston with Laurel Thatcher Ulrich.

4. Redefining ‘The Church’ and Embracing Expansiveness (29:00–37:01)

• The conversation advocates a shift from viewing “the church” as an external institution to experiencing it as a collective, participatory body—“the body of Christ.”
• The term “expansive” becomes central, reflecting an openness to all ideas that are good, true, and beautiful—outside typical conservative/progressive binaries.
• Aubrey notes expansiveness is a guiding “energy” for every conversation and guest: “Is the conversation opening something up, or constricting?”

5. Diversity, Community, and the Advisory Board (36:07–41:36)

• Faith Matters’ advisory board is purposefully diverse and includes notable figures like Fiona Givens, Patrick Mason, Steve Young, and others—each with their own perspectives, and sometimes significant disagreements.
• The importance of modeling “wrestling together,” rather than seeking agreement, is highlighted as a core strength and essential discipline the church offers in an increasingly polarized world.

6. Expanding Beyond Rational Discourse: Contemplative & Embodied Faith (46:03–51:33)

• The group emphasizes integrating rational, spiritual, intuitive, and embodied approaches to faith.

• Faith Matters gives space to contemplative practices (e.g., meditation, inspired by Thomas McConkie), not privileging intellect alone.

  “Our faith has never done that … There’s this balance between intellectual kind of rational engagement and intuitive spiritual engagement that I think we’re trying to strike at Faith Matters.” — Bill Turnbull (48:02)

7. Faith Development and Moving Forward Through Crisis (51:33–57:36)

• The journey through and beyond faith crises is seen as developmental—moving from certainty to honest grappling, and ultimately a richer reintegration of mind, body, and spirit.
• Rather than returning to naive certainty, the goal is to grow forward to “more love, more joy, more understanding, more life” (Zach Davis, 52:32).

8. Faith Matters Initiatives: Books, Courses, Gatherings (55:05–66:34)

• Faith Matters has published four books, with more forthcoming:
  • All Things New (Fiona & Terrell Givens)
  • Restoration (Patrick Mason)
  • Transformations of Faith (course and book by Thomas McConkie)
  • The Mother Tree (Katherine Sontag)
• The Transformations of Faith course is highlighted as “one of the greatest things we’ve done.”
• Publishing efforts are intentionally provocative, designed to disrupt comfort and expand the conversation, not to present a company line.
• The upcoming “Restore” conference (Salt Lake City, Oct 7–8) is announced as a major gathering for the community, featuring notable speakers: Thomas McConkie, Brian McLaren, Terrell and Fiona Givens, Patrick Mason, Carol Lynn Pearson, the Bonner Family, and the Unity Gospel Choir.
• Announcement of the launch of “Radiant Magazine,” a new Faith Matters publication for writing and art.

9. Balancing Boldness and Centeredness, Embracing Tension (57:36–60:40)

• Faith Matters rejects the label of simply “centrist,” as the team is willing to stake out bold, sometimes controversial positions—e.g., supporting discourse about Heavenly Mother.
• The podcast is criticized from “both sides”—encouraging them they are operating in hard, but fruitful, middle ground.

10. Impact, Gratitude, and the Future (66:34–End)

• The team reflects on overwhelmingly positive listener feedback: stories of listeners feeling less alone or more engaged in church and spiritual life.

• Bill Turnbull encourages, “If our religion can’t continue to engage people like you, who I consider the best and the brightest… then we have a problem.” (60:40)

• The project is majority volunteer-run; Zach Davis is the first full-time hire.

• The episode ends with warmth, humor, and mutual appreciation.

  “Make sure you’re working on something interesting. And do it with people you like. And I definitely think we’re meeting those two.” — Tim Chaves (75:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bill Turnbull (09:30):
  “There is a way to honestly approach real questions in a real faithful way.”

• Aubrey Chaves (15:00):
  “[Faith Matters] felt like the first place that we could really rest inside all of our questions.”

• Tim Chaves quoting David Brooks (14:47):
  “A person at the edge of inside can be the strongest reformer. This person has the loyalty of a faithful insider, but the judgment of the critical outsider.”

• Zach Davis (22:07):
  “To me it was that forward looking spirit that I felt about Faith Matters that drew me so much… I started to think of faith more like a commitment than an internal assertion of belief.”

• Bill Turnbull (19:04):
  “We play offense at Faith Matters. We're confident enough in the truths that the gospel affords us that we can also look at what work we still have to do… The church is a relationship.”

• Bill Turnbull (29:32):
  “We need to start thinking of the church as a community of believers, and quit making the church an object outside of us.”

• Zach Davis (33:02):
  “…With the truth that we're committed to, we should be wholehearted, but half sure.”

• Aubrey Chaves (39:50):
  “When you think of the church as your community… you really have to wrestle with every single hard question in a way that feels like it must be the purpose of life. Because what could be more important than the way that hurts and the way you have to stretch and reach and trust? It's a totally different and very complex kind of faith.”

• Bill Turnbull (71:45):
  “Sitting back and being critics, that's like the easy way out, you know... I like being builders. I love building something. Hopefully we're building something here that's really useful.”

Important Timestamps

• 02:04 – Bill Turnbull shares the early origins of Faith Matters
• 11:50 – The “edge of inside” and how team members found Faith Matters
• 19:04 – Faith Matters’ approach: Not defensive apologetics
• 29:32 – Redefining “the church,” introducing expansiveness
• 36:07 – Advisory board, diversity, and community wrestling
• 46:03 – Beyond intellect: contemplative and embodied faith
• 55:05 – Current and upcoming books, courses, and gathering plans
• 62:57 – The upcoming Restore conference
• 65:56 – Radiant Magazine announcement
• 66:34 – Listener feedback and the impact of Faith Matters
• 74:09 – Organizational structure, volunteerism, and gratitude

Final Thoughts

This episode offers deep transparency into the Faith Matters ethos: a loving, curious, and expansive engagement with complex faith questions; a commitment to growth and belonging, grounded in community; and humility about both their own journey and where the restored gospel might yet grow. The team’s chemistry and mutual respect, as well as their willingness to model honest wrestling and transformation, define the tone and direction of both this conversation and the broader Faith Matters project.

For more information or to register for the Restore conference: faithmatters.org/restore
Radiant Magazine launch: radiantmagazine.org