ANDY SERKIS Ran Wild Through Baghdad Souks

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers
Episode: ANDY SERKIS Ran Wild Through Baghdad Souks
Air Date: April 28, 2026
Hosts: Seth Meyers and Josh Meyers
Guest: Andy Serkis

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Main Theme or Purpose

The episode showcases Andy Serkis as he reminisces about his unique, multicultural upbringing—most notably his annual family trips between suburban England and Baghdad, including adventures throughout the Middle East. The conversation explores family dynamics, cross-cultural childhood, road trips in precarious circumstances, and how formative family travel inspired his creative life. The second half of the episode dives into Serkis’s creative ventures, especially the making of his new film Animal Farm, and what family and travel mean to his own children.

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Detailed Breakdown

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[00:24–17:15] Meyers Brothers’ Family Trip Debrief

- Seth’s Boston Family Adventure

• Seth describes taking his child Ash and Ash’s friend Huck to Boston for a packed family trip, joined by his parents.

  • Duck boat tour, aquarium, North End for dinner, children’s museum, Boston Tea Party Museum (“a triple plus!”), Faneuil Hall, chintzy indoor mini golf, Museum of Illusions, and Fenway Park for a Red Sox game.
  • “We went to an aquarium. I love that they exist. Are you—With that said, I don’t know what the f*** I’m doing there … you see the coolest fish you’ve ever seen and, like, how long can you actually look at it?” - Seth ([02:28])
  • Children’s museum turned out less age-appropriate, but the Science Museum was a hit.

• Family dynamics were front and center:

  • Awkwardness handling other people’s misbehaving kids.
  • Their dad knocks over his own beer, leading to comic relief.
  • Mom and dad get “run ragged” by the full itinerary.
  • Amtrak brought its own cast of characters, including a seatmate Ash found mystifying: “‘What’s he saying?’ … ‘I’m having a hard time following what he’s saying.’ ‘Okay, well, try harder.’” - Seth and Ash ([15:05])

• “I cannot recommend Boston enough as a destination for a family trip.” - Seth ([09:17])

• Notable moments: Seth being deeply moved by an IMAX film about the James Webb Telescope (“it made me cry”—[14:13]).

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[17:18–27:37] Interview: Andy Serkis’ Cross-Cultural Childhood

- Family Background and Baghdad Summers

• Andy’s father: Iraqi of Armenian descent, doctor/hospital founder in Baghdad.
• Mother: British, met his father while recovering from tuberculosis in the Middle East.
• Family lived in Ruislip, UK, but spent summers in Iraq.
  • “We used to spend all our childhood going backwards and forwards between Baghdad in Iraq and the suburb of Ruislip, just outside of West London.” - Andy ([19:09])
• The annual trip routine was “our norm,” not exceptional by their standards ([22:04]).

- Vivid Memories

• Six- to eight-week stays in Baghdad every year.
• Siblings’ ages spread out; Andy often closest to one sister.
• Camping in the desert, grilled fish by the Tigris, wild trips through Baghdad souks.
  • “It was so exciting and so culturally different … you’d go to the markets, the souks, and just sort of run through there … all these exotic smells and spices … I used to just go for cheap toys, really.” - Andy ([24:53], [25:54])
• Family home in Baghdad, founded hospital was centerpiece for father’s life.

- Desert Road Trips & Dad’s Narcolepsy

• Family packed into an old hot-seated Pontiac (sometimes with seven people) for cross-border road trips to Syria, Lebanon, Babylon.
• “He would fall asleep at the wheel constantly, which was not good. And we all inherited that.” - Andy ([34:12])
• After silent panics, wakes, and no serious accidents, the trips become family legend.
• “Dr. Serkis, please … if I fall asleep by the way do not be offended.” - Andy (joking, [34:35])

- Cultural Straddling and Identity

• Feelings of being an outsider or “betweener” model Andy’s later empathy and performances.
• The split between disciplined hospital life in Iraq and freewheeling UK family with a single mom during much of the year.
• "Full of admiration for what she did … she had a lot on.” (On his mother, a teacher raising five in the UK.)

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[27:37–39:38] Life, Danger, and Family in a Changing Baghdad

- Father’s Hospital & Political Turmoil

• Father’s hospital built for all social classes; later seized by Ba’ath Party under Saddam Hussein.
• “He gave a speech at a party in his house … arrested and disappeared … we didn’t hear from him for a couple of months. It was a very difficult time.” - Andy ([37:34])
• The hospital’s journey mirrors Iraq’s: once for everyone, later reserved for Saddam’s inner circle, finally used during the US occupation.

- Legacy and Reflection

• Andy is actively developing a film project based on the hospital’s turbulent history (“I really, really want to go back”—[39:38]).
• Most extended family left Iraq due to unrest. Cousins and family now scattered worldwide.

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[41:06–48:59] British Caravan Holidays & Outdoor Cinemas

- UK Travel with a Single Mom

• Caravan holidays on the South Coast (Bognor Regis, Lake District), memories of “social cycles” (four-wheeled tandem bikes).
• “We didn’t have our own caravan by a stretch … but they were really happy memories.” - Andy ([41:50])
• Admiration for his mother balancing work, five kids, and occasional au pairs—elder sisters kept the house running.

- Outdoor Cinemas

• Childhood delights at the “Alwiya Club” in Baghdad—movies projected on a painted wall.
• "The absence of choice actually feels like such a freedom … I love the idea of just walking to an outdoor cinema." - Seth ([45:29])
• Andy’s favorite: watching The Bodyguard in post-Soviet Russia with a monotone, simultaneous Russian translation (“I watched the whole film just mesmerized.” - [48:11]).

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[52:07–57:41] Andy as Parent and Professional

- Raising Kids Amid Film Sets

• Andy and wife Lorraine (also an actress) raised their kids between the UK and film sets.
  • Lord of the Rings, King Kong, The Hobbit: All involved long stints in New Zealand with children in tow, sometimes enrolling them in local schools.
  • “They’ve just lived and breathed [the industry] growing up.” - Andy ([52:27])
  • Upside: unique adventures; downside: “being away from your family, that’s a tricky one … I thought, this is history repeating itself a little.” (On emulating his own father’s absence, [53:38])

- Directing: From Second Unit to New Frontiers

• First big directing break was running the massive second unit for The Hobbit trilogy (200 days!).
  • “Suddenly I found myself in front of a crew of 200 people … it was a phenomenal education.” - Andy ([54:09])
• Strength in New Zealand’s creative film community.
  • “They're such an incredible team … it’s like a big family.” ([56:35])

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[56:49–66:45] Animal Farm and the Long Road of Adaptation

- The Decades-Long Journey

• Andy’s new film, Animal Farm, releases May 1.
• Inspiration came from work on Planet of the Apes and the power of performance capture; wanted to adapt Orwell’s story for a younger, modern audience.
  • “Crucially wanted to have a debate between young kids, their parents and their grandparents all watching … nobody, no studio could understand that concept that this could possibly be a family film.” - Andy ([61:20])
  • Process started in 2011, took 15 years to come to fruition.
  • Cast includes Seth Rogen, Jim Parsons, Glenn Close, Woody Harrelson, Kieran Culkin, Steve Buscemi, Laverne Cox, and more ([61:20]).

- Creative Adaptation

• Modernizes the story, introduces a piglet protagonist to help young audiences connect emotionally.
• Changes the ending to one of hope, leaving an “open-ended question … it’s in the trying that hopefully you'll find a solution.” - Andy ([65:09])

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[66:20–66:46] Speed Round

• Has Andy been to the Grand Canyon?
  • “No, I really want to go to the Grand Canyon.” - Andy ([66:35])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I used to go [to Baghdad] for six or eight weeks of the summer … camp in the desert, eat grilled fish by the River Tigris … It was an amazing place.” - Andy Serkis ([20:56]–[21:44])
• “He liked calm and peace and order … He’d fall asleep at the wheel constantly, which was not good, and we all inherited that.” - Andy ([31:49], [34:12])
• “I remember one time there was a desert rat climbed into my bag. When I got back to my dad’s house, I opened this bag and it just jumped out and scared the hell out of me.” - Andy ([32:13])
• “The absence of choice is actually feels like such a freedom … I love the idea of just walking to an outdoor cinema.” - Seth ([45:29])
• “They’ve just lived and breathed [the industry] growing up.” - Andy, on raising children amid film sets ([52:27])
• “It took forever. Everyone thought Animal Farm is a very spinach-y … Orwell’s too dark, etc.” - Andy ([60:59])
• “We have to keep trying … it’s not a Hollywood ending. It’s: this is up to you, kids.” (On Animal Farm, [65:09])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28–17:15 — Meyers brothers’ family trip debrief (Boston).
• 18:18–27:37 — Andy Serkis’ multicultural upbringing & Baghdad summers.
• 27:37–39:38 — Father’s hospital, Baghdad in turmoil, family legacy.
• 41:06–48:11 — Caravans, UK travel, outdoor cinemas, The Bodyguard in Russia.
• 52:07–57:41 — Andy as a parent; raising kids on set; his directorial journey.
• 60:59–66:20 — Adapting Animal Farm for the modern era.
• 66:20–66:46 — Speed Round Q&A.

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Tone and Style

Conversational, warm, anecdotal, and sometimes poignant—filled with humor, sibling banter, and Serkis’ vivid storytelling. Andy’s stories oscillate between deeply personal and comically universal familial chaos, all told with earnestness and wit.

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Recommended For

Listeners interested in:

• Cross-cultural family stories
• Unique perspectives on childhood and travel
• Behind-the-scenes film industry insights
• How family histories influence creativity
• Andy Serkis fans (and Tolkien/Orwell aficionados)

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A gem for anyone who loves family travel tales that go way beyond the everyday—and a great preview for Andy Serkis’s creative endeavors!

Transcript

[Mike M]

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[Andy Serkis]

hey Paji.

[Sufi M]

Hey Sufi. How are you?

[Mike M]

I'm great.

[Sufi M]

How are you?

[Mike M]

Good. I feel like I'm just gonna run this intro.

[Sufi M]

Yeah. No, I mean you had a family trip.

[Mike M]

I had an actual family trip and it involved members of our family. I took Ash to Boston. Alexi was taking Axel to California. Addie was spending the weekend with her aunt and niece. And it was a big trip. It was Ash's first trip to Fenway Park. Mom and dad met us and it was just exceptional. We took the train. Ash and I took the train up, we stopped, we picked up his best friend Huck. And then we got to the city. We checked into a hotel room. I got a room with a. A sofa bed, pull out couch. And the plan was the boys would sleep together in this sort of kick ass queen bed, right? Good. Good sheets, good blanket. And then I was in a real janky fold out couch.

[Sufi M]

That was the plan.

[Mike M]

That was the plan. I was. Because they really wanted to sleep in the same bed. And I was like, all right, I'll let you sleep.

[Sufi M]

And you wouldn't put the two like 10 year old kids in the janky fold out.

[Andy Serkis]

I don't know, it felt a little.

[Sufi M]

They're supposed to sleep.

[Mike M]

Who is. Who is the Dickens character? I don't know. It felt like Fagin. It felt like, you know, making him making Oliver Twist. Like ask for newborn grool. The good news is they couldn't. They self policed and they. The first night they were in bed together, the friend came out and was like, can I sleep in here? I don't think we can fall asleep

[Sufi M]

in the same room because they were too Chatty Cathy.

[Mike M]

Chatty and kicky and just like. And so I ended up with Ash and the bed.

[Sufi M]

So we're in the proper, like adult. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike M]

Bed. We went to an aquarium. We went to the New England aquarium. I love an aquarium.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

I love that they exist. Are you. With that said, I don't know what the I'm doing there, you know, at some point, like what. How. How long am I. You know what I mean? Like, you see the coolest Fish you've ever seen. And, like, how long can you actually look at it?

[Sufi M]

Well, it depends who you are, but I think that aquariums are designed. All museums are designed sort of with a path.

[Mike M]

There was a beautiful path of this one. You sort of wind up. It's really cool.

[Sufi M]

Yeah. So you do that.

[Mike M]

I do do that. I just always feel like when I think of, like, we're gonna go to the aquarium, that feels like we're gonna make a day of it.

[Sufi M]

Oh, I see. Yeah.

[Mike M]

Reality is it's a 45 minute trip.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Yeah.

[Sufi M]

I mean, crazy aquarium. You could probably do a couple hours, like cr.

[Mike M]

Unless there. Unless there's a show of some kind. I don't think you can stretch it past 45 minutes. We did. They were like. They fed. We watch them feed some seals. Yeah. Fast and first time a seal catches a fish, it's the first. Best thing you've ever seen.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Then you sort of understand they're pretty good at it. Not as much risk as you thought.

[Sufi M]

There was Classic Seth Meers. It's like you were, like, amazing. And then every giraffe after that, nothing. You like to see things for the first time and then never again.

[Mike M]

Never again. Yeah. Well, I want to make it. I want to trick myself into thinking like I saw something special. I'm like, and then a dude reached into a bucket, took out a fish, threw it. Seal caught it. Yeah. I can't believe I was there on that day. Then we went to the North End, famous Italian American neighborhood in Boston. Went to a restaurant. Mom and dad met us there. It was great. I will say we had Huck with us for 24 hours. And I would say the restaurant was like, hour three. And that was the first time. I was like, hour 24 can't come fast enough. It got better.

[Sufi M]

Did he order everything off the menu?

[Mike M]

No. They were just like, he ever. I kept it like, I don't like

[Sufi M]

kids that aren't yours.

[Mike M]

Having to talk to them when they're misbehaving. You know what I mean? Like that. It's like an awkward thing. So I kept having to say at this restaurant, hug, Sit down. Cause he kept just, like, standing to, like, just, like, mess with Ash. And I'm like, huck, honey, sit down. We're at a restaurant. Then they came up with this plan where they kept saying they needed fresh air. And then I would just look out the window, and they were sort of running up and down the street and whatever. I don't care. I can run up the street all I want. Get some. Get. Get their steps in. Yeah, Very nice. Oh, also so you'll enjoy this. They also kept like the amount they were like knocking over like waters and silverware, just everything. And I'm just. It was so. And this is before mom and dad came and it was just like, clank, clank, clank, clank. Oops. I'm like, sit down. Once you sit down, stuff stops not becoming. And then mom and dad sat down and dad ordered a beer. And what do you think he did immediately?

[Sufi M]

Oh, they either spilled it on his chest or knocked the whole thing.

[Mike M]

Knocked it over, but on the floor like 10x worse than anything the boys had done.

[Sufi M]

Mom was probably cool about it.

[Mike M]

Mom. Mom sighed so loud that the windows to the restaurant blew open. They thought it was. They kept saying, it's a nor'. Easter. And I had to say, it's not actually. It's just. It's a withering mom. It's a withering sigh from her mom. But dad, you know, again, Dad's never met a stranger he doesn't want to try to turn into his best friend. There was like a couple on what looked like a first date across table from cuz he spilled so much. Like it was a observable amount of beer on the floor. And the dad was immediately like, I'm going to tell him you did that. Oh, yeah. And they were like, what? I like when they got up to leave, he's like, you got to go tell. I'll go apologize for the mess you made. They're like, huh? Yeah. So that was super fun. And then we went to the children's museum. We. I think, by the way, something positive is coming because I know.

[Andy Serkis]

Good.

[Mike M]

Yeah. Children's museum. The reality is I think 10 years old is too old for a children's museum.

[Sufi M]

Okay.

[Mike M]

But I didn't know. And then you show up and you're like, oh, my son's the oldest kid here. It's a lot of like, you got

[Sufi M]

to go to the teenagers museum or

[Mike M]

just a science museum. I think at like 10 you go to a science museum. We're good to go. That was fine. Then we went to the Boston Tea Party Museum and it was a triple plus. I cannot tell you how great the Boston Tea Party Museum was.

[Sufi M]

Oh, I talked to mom and dad about it and dad was glowing about it.

[Mike M]

Great. By the way, I missed something. This is how busy my day I fully missed. The first thing we did on Saturday morning, we did the duck boat tour of Boston Classic. Classic duck boat. You get on A duck boat. It's a. It's a car that then can go into the water.

[Sufi M]

Amphibious vehicle.

[Mike M]

I told mom she had 10 questions. She could only ask 10 questions about the duck boat. And then every time she asked one, I would go quack quack to let her know she was down the amount. Mom asked what happened to the wheels in the duck boat? I'm like, I don't know. Just don't worry about it. We had a real. We had a real old school Boston tour. Narrator. On our duck boat, he was wearing a bobby or jersey, but the oar on the back was spelled O A R. Uh huh. Um, he had a lot of duck. A lot of duck boat puns. Um, the best thing about him though, was he figured out somebody on the boat had gone to Harvard. And then he just called that guy Harvard the rest of the trip. And every time there was a fact before he said it, he would ask that guy if he knew what it was. And when the guy didn't, he'd be like, too bad, Harvard. You get a little bit more education for your money. It was great. If you went to Harvard or Boston, your nickname is Harvard. That's a thing. Duckboat was great also. Ash, like, felt like he wasn't paying any attention. But I realized he gets a real colonial education at school because he was just looking out the window, slack jawed. And then every now and then he's like, they're like, do you remember it? Does anybody here know who brought the cannons? Who brought the cannons for the battle of Bunker Hill? And as Ash was like, Henry Knox, I'm like, oh, Jesus. Yeah. Kind of shocking. He would also. He got every kid to come up and drive the duck boat. And then they would drive it for like 30 seconds and be like, all right, scram. I like that. I like that vibe.

[Sufi M]

Yeah, me too.

[Mike M]

Duck boat was great. But anyway, back to the Tea Party Museum. And again, like, if you're going, I. But I cannot recommend Boston enough as a destination for a family trip. Tea Party Museum. So good. First you go into a meeting house, and it's one of those museums where you got young actors just bringing their AAME to reenactment stuff. They hand out little cards so that certain people in the meeting house have to stand up and say something about how mad they are about this tea tax. Then you go out and you, you. There's a. There's two boats that are parked there. You go. The kids get to pretend to throw tea overboard. Nobody breaks character. Then you go in to, like, A little tea party museum. There's a video, like a 15 minute reenactment video about. What is it? The battle of Lexington Concord. One of those. It was shot, heard around the world. Obviously not remembered around the world. But the shot fired up, fully teared up. Not the last time I would tear up. Pashi fully teared up watching this incredible video about our nation's founding. Just exceptional. Then we went to Faneuil hall for lunch. Yep. You've been to Faneuil Hall?

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Often. Probably often with mom and dad, right?

[Sufi M]

Yeah. We used to go and do like some Christmas shopping or just like it was a good place to go and it was great.

[Mike M]

It's an incredibly famous food court in Boston. I wanted to check your memory that you had been with Mom. Cause I remember being with mom. But mom seemed to have no memory as to how Faneuil hall worked. Cause we walked in and she's like, now are we gonna have seats? I'm like, seats? What are you talking about? And she's like, oh. I go, what do you want? She goes, a lobster roll. But not if I can't. If we can't sit down. And I'm like, huh? Daddy found us seats. For what it's worth.

[Sufi M]

Great.

[Mike M]

I felt like a busboy. Cause everybody, nobody wanted anything from the same place. I thought, like, we'd like, get Regina pizzeria. It's the best pizza.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

I'm like, everyone pizza, right? Ash is like, I want sushi. His friend wanted chicken fingers. At a place that had the longest line of anywhere in fan.

[Sufi M]

Oh, I mean, you were probably pro chicken fingers.

[Mike M]

I got my pizza. I. I stood. I had my plan. Mom got a lobster roll. Dad got some weird. A dad to his credit, went up and got himself. Yeah. Well, also, we sit down and Mom's like, I'll get a beer. I'm like, what are you. What do you think? This is where you.

[Sufi M]

I would think you could get a beer at F. Hall, but I don't.

[Mike M]

I don't think you can have a beer in the main area. I think there's probably a bar there. Yeah, just. I don't think you get a liquor license for a haul.

[Sufi M]

Yeah, but the times have changed. Sufi.

[Mike M]

Not enough. And then. Oh, also, sorry, this is. I mean, again, you. You're listening to a family trip podcast. We. We went to the chintiest mini golf place I've ever been. Was like on two floors inside, but that. That burned like 30 minutes. We went to the Museum of Illusions. That was also right by F. Hall. That's like a thing where like kids stand next to like halfway on a mirror. And then if they, if you, if they raise both. If they raise one arm and leg, it looks like they're jumping in the air. Like, like illusions.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Again, you just realize on the title.

[Sufi M]

Right.

[Mike M]

I just in general was like, I feel like museums oversell how much time you're going to be able to burn. Adam?

[Sufi M]

Yeah. You went to a lot of museums.

[Mike M]

I went to a lot of museums. I mean, these are, these are. Some of, these are again, Tea Party Museum, I think is 80 minutes and it's chock full and fantastic.

[Sufi M]

And you're walking from one of these places to the next.

[Mike M]

We did a lot of walking. We did do a lot of walking. And then. And then Huck's family picked him up. And then we went to our first Red Sox game. And Red Sox got Tarik Skubald, one of the best pitchers obviously in baseball. And so the Red Sox lost 4 to 1. But it was really, really special. I mean, I think like a lot of kids go to their first baseball game. Ash was maybe more interested in what he was going to eat. But we did stay. We did stay for the whole game, which was really fun. And yeah, it was just tremendous. The whole thing was tremendous. And then we went to the science museum the next morning. The proper. So Sunday morning, that was the day we were leaving. And we got a little bit of a slow start. Cause Ash slept in. And I will be honest, I'm gonna take back everything I've said about museums. We could have spent five hours at the Boston Science Museum.

[Sufi M]

I remember that as being very engaging. Very sort of hands on.

[Mike M]

Very engaging. Ash was a little bit like what? Like the thing that had not happened yet happened right at the Emory. He's like, we gotta leave the museum. We went to the IMAX. We watched a IMAX, like a 50 minute IMAX movie about the James Webb Telescope, about the building of it.

[Sufi M]

Sorry, Hubble.

[Mike M]

That made me cry because it's like. It was like just interviews with the people who made this thing and like them talking about the first time they saw the images that were sent back. Fantastic. Really great. So got a little ripped off at the end. I was paying like 250 a pop for. For Ash to get these little, you know those penny things where you like, you like, you like do a crank and the penny gets flattened out and they print like a little thing.

[Sufi M]

Yeah, you paid $2.50 per.

[Mike M]

And I think Ash. Ash wanted three. Ash wanted three. Under the guise of he was going to give one to each of his siblings. And then I've noticed it's been a couple days and has not been handed over yet. Yeah. Wow.

[Sufi M]

There's still time.

[Mike M]

Yep. And then. Oh, you know. And again, I am track as well. Both ways. Hell of a way to travel. Yeah. Yeah. We had. There was someone on our Amtrak. Ash and I were sitting next to each other. We had one of those, like, table with like a four section seating arrangement. And the guy across from us was. He was an interesting cat. Very, very nice. Very kind, but a little. I want to be careful with my language. He was very hard to sort of follow. And he was sort of like talking a blue streak. And I was doing my best to sort of comprehend him and try to have a conversation, but scattered, I would say, is maybe a good way to describe it. And Ash, at one point, he was watching something on iPad, took off his headphones and. And leaned over because he was talking. This guy was now talking to somebody else. And Ash goes, what's he saying? And I go, you know, I'm having a hard time kind of following what he's saying. And Ash said, okay, well, try harder. And then just put his headphones back on. It was really great. And I was like, you know what, that's good advice. And then I was glad. I was glad that we talked to this. It was. He was a. Not the sort of individual you run into all the time. And he made for a very interesting ride.

[Sufi M]

Yeah. Oh, that sounds great, Sui.

[Mike M]

It was really good. I think mom and dad were really happy. Yeah. Good. Hangs with.

[Sufi M]

No, I mean, I talked to them the next day. They were exhausted. Or I talked to them later on Sunday and they were just like wiped out. I. I wanted to facetime with them earlier in the day to hear how it was. And they were like, we got to lay down and take naps. We'll call you later.

[Mike M]

I ran them ragged. I mean, really random ragged. Yeah.

[Sufi M]

Well, sounds like you did a lot. Checked a lot of boxes and. Yeah, no, they definitely. Mom and dad had a great time.

[Mike M]

I'm glad to hear it.

[Sufi M]

So there you go.

[Mike M]

That's family trip and. And now we got a great episode for you. Andy Serkis.

[Sufi M]

Yeah. Legend.

[Mike M]

We had to. He had it. We had to cut him off a little fast. Andy had another interview after this and it was, you know, our fault. We did not get to the speed round.

[Sufi M]

Yeah, yeah. He answers the last question.

[Mike M]

He answers the most important one, but he answers.

[Sufi M]

Has he been to the Grandkid he answers it badly, but we're not going to tell you. Did you just tell him what he said?

[Mike M]

No, I just said he answers it badly. Anybody? Nobody knows what that means coming from me.

[Sufi M]

Yeah, he's got his film. Animal Farm is out May 1st in theaters. And, yeah, I mean, he's been with Caesar in Planet of the Apes, King Kong, most notably Gollum.

[Mike M]

Gollum and Smeagol.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

So I'm more of a Smeagol guy. You always. You like Gollum? You. You. You think Gollum has some interesting ideas.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah,

[Mike M]

very pro Gollum. Yeah, that's true. All right, enjoy. Listen, have fun.

[Narrator]

Family trips with the M Brothers. Family chips with the mindless brothers.

[Andy Serkis]

Here we go.

[Mike M]

Hello, Andy.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, hey. Hello. How are you?

[Mike M]

I'm wonderful. It's so nice to see you again.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, you too. You too. Gosh, I'm trying to think when we last met each other.

[Mike M]

It was a while ago, and it's very nice. Sometimes you read someone's biography and you realize. For the purposes of this podcast, I'm certainly hopeful that we're gonna hear stories unlike any we've ever heard before.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, totally.

[Mike M]

So, yeah, you know, in my head, I'm like, oh, Andy, it's exciting.

[Sufi M]

There's something about the British Empire that I feel like lends itself to places to. To parts unknown for many of us.

[Mike M]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah. It's part of our makeup. We're good at that kind of stuff.

[Mike M]

Because you're not just classically. Obviously, you're British, but your background is incredibly a great deal more diverse than just that.

[Andy Serkis]

It is, in fact. So my dad was Iraqi and he was of Armenian descent, so they came through kind of two generations before he did to Iraq, settled in Baghdad and from Armenia and. And. And then my mom, who was. Who was recovering from tuberculosis in the night in the. You know, sort of. Sort of around the time of the war, went over to recover her. Her father was working in Kuwait on the oil refineries, and she met my dad, who was an aspiring doctor, and they got married and had through three daughters, and then myself and my younger brother. And so we used to spend all our childhood sort of going backwards and forwards between Baghdad in Iraq and then the suburb of Ruislip, which is a little rather boring suburban place. No, actually, it's not boring at all. It's home just outside of West London.

[Mike M]

That's unbelievable. So my first question is, did she meet him while recovering from tuberculosis in a hospital? Was he there as a medical professional?

[Andy Serkis]

I believe that's the case. Yeah, I mean, you know, this is going back into sort of.

[Mike M]

Sure.

[Andy Serkis]

The, the annals of history, but I, I, I guess so. Yeah. I think that's must have, must have been how they did. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sufi M]

I don't imagine you're at your best when you're recovering from tuberculosis. She must have really been something else, I thought.

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I think, Yeah, I think she, well, she certainly turned his eye. I think he was going to be a Jesuit priest before that, so, So I think he's, she must have done something.

[Mike M]

Now, when you were a kid and, you know, it's obviously, you know, due to the incredibly unfortunate events of, like, the Middle east in the last, you know, 25, 30, 40 years, you don't think about, like, vacation to Baghdad, but was that something you looked forward to as a kid? Because obviously it's an incredible culture.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, we, I mean, I used to go there for six weeks to, you know, or eight weeks of the summer, and it was an amazing place. I mean, it was a magical place. And we used to go and visit. You know, we traveled all over the Middle East. We went to Syria, we went to Babylon. We went to, you know, to bear roots and, and, yeah, Lebanon. And, and it, it was in a remarkable kind of opposite, polar opposite of, of where I was growing up. And so it was, it really did hold a sense of magic. And we'd camp in the desert, we'd eat grilled fish by the River Tigris and all that kind of stuff. It was amazing. It was amazing. And so, but consequently, I've never, I've never really felt, you know, I've always felt like a slight sort of outsider or betweener, you know.

[Mike M]

Sure.

[Andy Serkis]

You know.

[Mike M]

Cause I have to imagine of the kids in Ruslip. Am I saying that right?

[Andy Serkis]

Ruislip.

[Mike M]

Ruislip, Ruislip. That you were the only ones who were summering in Baghdad.

[Andy Serkis]

I would imagine so. Yeah.

[Mike M]

Were the circus kids. Were you all collectively excited about the annual trip back to Iran?

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah, yeah, we still, but that was our norm, actually, so it wasn't. And it was kind of not exceptional in the sense that that was what we did every, every summer. And it was, it was you know, like, that was just. Yeah, we, we flew out, we stayed, we stayed there and had all these, I mean, looking back, sort of quite magical experiences. But, but also my grandparents, my mom's mum was also party Iraqi and French Armenian, so, so she, she was, and she was an amazing cook. So we used to go over, she lived in Wembley in London, just in the west of London. And so, so we, we're sort of, the culture was sort of present with us as well.

[Sufi M]

Would you, did you have a family home in Baghdad that you would go to or would you.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah, my dad, my dad's house. I mean, so he was, he was a doctor and he founded a hospital in Baghdad for, for. At that time, you know, there was a huge. Well, there still is a huge disparity between the wealthy and the poor there. And these four doctors set out to build a hospital that would really give good service to everyone. And, and that, that was, that, that was why he stayed. He didn't, you know, he'd built this thing and, and so he couldn't really. He used to come home at Christmas for, for a couple of weeks and then my mum would go out and visit him at Easter.

[Mike M]

But what was the travel time back then to Iraq like?

[Andy Serkis]

It was about, I guess it was about six or seven hours on that plane.

[Mike M]

It's actually not that bad.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or boac.

[Mike M]

At the time it was called boac. What is that? What was that?

[Andy Serkis]

The British Overseas Air Corporation, I think.

[Mike M]

I mean, it obviously made sense that at some point the marketing people were like, we got to change this.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, we'll change it to va. How.

[Mike M]

What was the age gap between you and your siblings?

[Andy Serkis]

So my eldest sister Carol was like eight years older than me and then five years older. And then Anita, my sister, and then Kath, the youngest sister, was four years older than me. Then there was me and then my younger brother was four years younger than me.

[Mike M]

So really, I mean, pretty spread out group.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike M]

Did you, when you think of, think back to those trips, were the 5 of you spending a lot of time together or was the age gap such that you all sort of split off to do your own thing?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, you know, my, I mean, I used to hang out with my youngest sister at the most, who was four years older than me because we had similar interests. But you know, as an older brother, my, you know, I was, when we were growing up, it was. He was like my younger brother. So I didn't hang out with him. But, but. And then my elder sisters were gay, getting into boyfriends and, you know, doing their own thing.

[Sufi M]

I always have this vision anytime I hear of about a city like Baghdad or just a city that I've never been to. I feel like, you know, if there's going to be a movie scene, there's going to be kids running through the streets of the city sort of no parents around. Was it like that? Did you sort of have free rein?

[Andy Serkis]

Very much so. It was, you know, it just. It was so exciting and so culturally different and, you know, you'd go to the markets, the souks, you know, and just sort of feel. Find your way running through there and. And finding interesting, wonderful things. All these exotic smells and spices and, you know, all the things that you find in a market but. But seem so different and. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was a great time. It was a great. I mean, I loved it. I used to really look forward to it.

[Mike M]

Would you. Was it be. Was it something where you would buy things to bring home? Like, were there, you know, souvenirs and the, like that you'd bring back to England to sort of show?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, my mum used to collect all that stuff. She loved kind of Middle Eastern pottery and, you know, artifacts and paintings and, you know, she. So the house was kind of full of that stuff. But I used to just go for cheap toys, really. I. I'd find. Right. You know, I'd look, I'd seek out toy, basically cheap toys. That was. That was what I used to do at the souk.

[Sufi M]

And so you mentioned going to like, Syria and Babylon. Were those trips that your father would come along, was it?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah. He would take time out and. And, you know, and whilst he was still working, you know, he still had to work at the hospital, but we'd have these side trips and we'd go off for, you know, a week or so or to visit these other countries and. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was an extraordinary. Looking back, it is kind of an. It was an extraordinary education. I feel very lucky to have had it.

[Mike M]

So you didn't see him much during the year. What was it like when you would. What was it like for you when you would see him, you know, for those six weeks? And what do think it was like for him to all of a sudden have his, like, five British children descend on Baghdad?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, no, I think. Well, he was. He was very much a man of routine, obviously with the hospital he had. But they. Traditionally in. In Iraq you have a siesta, so he used to sleep in the afternoons for an hour after lunch. That's what everybody does. And so I think he used to feel a little invaded when we, when we all pitched up and equally when he came home to the uk, it was sort of odd and strange to have a man about the house who. His position was very unclear. You know, it was. It was like he had. He was definitely a Man who had authority in his workplace and in his home in Iraq, but he sort of had to fit in with a predominantly female oriented family when he got back. And so they would all have boyfriends and were doing their own thing and suddenly he just would try and come in and be this, you know, put his foot down and be a bit authoritarian and it never really worked out, you know?

[Sufi M]

Yeah, no, I wouldn't imagine so.

[Mike M]

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Support comes from Yahoo. Mail now with Planner. Hey, Bashi.

[Sufi M]

Hey, Sufi.

[Mike M]

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[Mike M]

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[Sufi M]

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[Sufi M]

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[Mike M]

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[Sufi M]

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[Mike M]

Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy Mocha Frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Here we go. Talk about this camping trip by the Euphrates. Does that mean that your parents were Tigress? Sorry, Sorry, my gun. Obviously I haven't been. Did. Were your parents sort of rugged people? Were they good at that sort of thing?

[Andy Serkis]

My mom, I think was, was quite intrepid and my sisters certainly were as well. They've, you know, they went on in their lives to go off and do lots of adventures all over the place. But my dad was, I think he, he liked calm and peace and order and being in a hospital environment. I mean, he liked a bit of a party. He was a good holding cocktail parties and things like that. But, but he, he wasn't. I wouldn't say an outdoorsy guy. Not at all.

[Mike M]

In fact, yeah, I'm, I'm in that situation. I'm him and my wife is. Your Intrepid is a very good word for it, by the way. I need to start using intrepid more for outdoorsy.

[Sufi M]

So if you're, if you're camping by a river, are you at a campground? And what's like, what's a day like? Are you, are you cooking out for your food or we we went to.

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I remember one trip which was to Lake Habania, which is just north of Baghdad. And. And it was just like, it was just in the desert, you know, and you're camping under the stars and you know, it was, it was. For a seven year old, it was kind of like extraordinary to have. I've never, I'd never seen the stars like it, you know, so it was. If it seemed very magical. It seemed very magical. And, and we would, you know, we'd cook food and. But we were just on camp beds under the stars. There were no tents or anything, you know, so, so. And I remember one time there was a. A desert rat climbed into my bag, which I didn't realize. A little desert rat climbed into my bag and when I got back to my dad's house, I opened this bag and it happened. It just kind of jumped out the hell out of me. But. But yeah, so it was adventurous. Yeah, it was adventurous.

[Mike M]

Well, how, when you. What is the travel? You know, pardon my ignorance, but how do you get from Iraq to Syria when you go to visit there? Was that. Would you, would you drive?

[Andy Serkis]

What am I thinking? Yeah, yeah, I think it was probably. Yeah, we drove. Yeah, we did. It was a long sort of driving trip. Yeah, a road trip.

[Mike M]

And what sort of car would you pack in? 7 circuses.

[Andy Serkis]

He had an old Pontiac which was quite. I just have this. I just remember the sensation of sitting on the seats, plastic seats and burning the back of my legs every time we got into the car because it was, it was so hot in Iraq and, and as a child wearing shorts. It was not a good thing, you know, getting into that car. I just remember vividly every time it's just like, wow, you know, how can it get that hot in a car? You know? But it was a, it was, it was quite. I remember it had little. It had fins on the back. It was quite. Start looking back, it was a proper, you know, it was a Pontiac. So it was quite exotic really. You know, not suburban rice lip in just outside of London.

[Mike M]

Yeah, I bet. Probably not downtown Baghdad either. Right. Like a Pontiac.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was a bit of American influence as well with, with, with vehicles and stuff. But my, but my dad is a. Was a rather a bit of a narcolect, so he would, he would, he would fall asleep at the wheel constantly, which was not good. And, and we all inherited that. We all inherited.

[Sufi M]

Really.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah. I mean, I can, if I fall asleep, by the way, do not be offended.

[Sufi M]

But no, we won't But I have

[Andy Serkis]

been known, I have been known on many occasions and people, you know, they rip it out of me because I, I've been, I have literally been in studio meetings in LA and sort of started to go, you know, and I've sat opposite my brother and, you know, having dinner with him and he'll, you know, he'll just kind of start nodding off, you know, so. So it is a circus trait for sure.

[Mike M]

I mean, that is so the idea of just driving from Baghdad to Syria in an old Pontiac with hot seats and not knowing if the guy at

[Sufi M]

the wheel's gonna doze off occasionally you'd all wake up.

[Mike M]

I also like that you said he liked calm. And I'm like, well now that's going a little too far.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike M]

I guess it could be worse. You could be the person he's currently operating on.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, that is, that would.

[Mike M]

Dr. Circus, Dr. Serkis, please.

[Andy Serkis]

But you know what? I'll tell you. I had an arcoleptic experience at the Museum of Monarch in New York here. And I was, I went to see a photographic exhibition with Lorraine, my wife, and we were standing there and we are jet lagged, admittedly, but, but I remember standing, looking at this picture thinking, God, that's, that's an amazing picture. It was Ouija, you know, the photographer.

[Mike M]

Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Serkis]

So I was looking at these pictures and then suddenly I felt this wave of tiredness and then I just fell over the security line, set off, set off the alarms and headbutted one of the pictures. You know, it was.

[Mike M]

That's the one thing they don't like when you feel like how they build those lines. They never think somebody might just doze off.

[Andy Serkis]

No, exactly, exactly.

[Sufi M]

Did your father, were there ever any accidents, any notable accidents while you were driving on these trips with your father falling asleep?

[Andy Serkis]

No, just the occasional kind of, you know, driving. They're desert roads, you know, so luckily if you go, you're not going to hit anything.

[Mike M]

You know, there's an interesting thing where I've got three kids and I, you know, sometimes just on a long drive, you know, I wouldn't say it's narcolepsy, but just getting tired. And it is that weird balance of like, I know my wife will be so mad if I say, hey, I need to pull over and have you drive. But it's funny that what you're weighing that against is, you know what, or I just drive into oncoming traffic and our whole family does. Like that's. I'm more afraid of the, of her than actually like going into the traffic did. Obviously, you know, you have three kids, you know, you know they're at the age where they're born, late 90s, early 2000s. I imagine you've never had any chance to bring them back to the Middle east or, or have you?

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, and I really want to. And, and, and in fact of recent, in recent years I've been trying to write a, a project, a film based on, on the, the hospital that my dad built. Because. And I really want to go back there and I think it was getting to a point where it was getting safe.

[Mike M]

Yeah.

[Andy Serkis]

And clearly not right now, but it was, it was getting to a point where it was getting safer. But because, because the hospital covered an interesting period. It was, he built it in 1964, which was the year I was born with these founding, other founding doctors. And then, and then very quickly of course there was the Ba' Athist party under Saddam Hussein was beginning to ascend and, and there was not a good feeling towards the west at that time. And so he used to, he's my dad was a doctor for the British Council and for, for boac, you know operatives and that. Everyone started to leave and he gave a, he gave a speech at a party in, in his house. He had a cocktail party, invited lots of people over and then his speech was recorded and he said some rather unflattering things about Saddam Hussein and he was arrested and disappeared. And so we were, we were obviously incredibly worried and for. We didn't hear from him for a couple of months. So it was, it was a, it was a very difficult time and this was going on. You know, people were beginning to be disappeared and the other doctors faced threats as well. And then it got taken over by the party and was only the Ba' Athist party took the hospital over. So it was only able to be used by Saddam Hussein's family and high ranking officials. And then so there's that period. So there was a sort of pre Ba' Athist party period, then the sort of Saddam Hussein and then when the American intervention in Iraq happened, the US intervention in Iraq happened, it was taken over and it was part of the Green Zone. So it's gone through this huge journey as a place. So I'm putting together a project which is sort of based on the transitions really seen through the eyes of people who were around in that hospital throughout that period. So I do want to go back. I'm desperate to go back. You know, I really, really want to go back.

[Mike M]

Yeah.

[Sufi M]

Is it still there, the hospital?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It still exists.

[Mike M]

I think it's amazing how a physical space can show how the passage of history, like, just, you know, you think, like, oh, a hospital is going to be a hospital for all this time, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It's really something. It's also like, you know, there's. There's many bummers to this story, but it's such a bummer that you' dad started a hospital and it might not be a cool thing to tell people there. You know what I mean? They're like, oh, we don't like people who start hospitals.

[Sufi M]

Do you still have family there? Not any extended family.

[Andy Serkis]

I mean, there's like some distant family there now. Most, Most people got out, started to get out where there was a big diaspora and who. And some of them went to Canada, some of them to New Zealand and some of them to. To France and the uk. So most of them got out troubles, you know.

[Mike M]

Wow, that's crazy. What, what do you remember about Babylon?

[Andy Serkis]

Just the lion of Babylon, the sculpture, this, this huge sculpture of the, you know. Yeah, that was. That's my main memory. And just, just, just lots of architectural, you know, artifacts and ancient buildings and. I mean, amazing place. Amazing place.

[Mike M]

Yeah.

[Andy Serkis]

No hanging gardens, though. I was quite disappointed.

[Mike M]

Yeah. You know, you wrote, you left a very angry Yelp review about the lack of hanging garden.

[Sufi M]

If they're not there, stop talking about them.

[Mike M]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sufi M]

And word. Would you ever, if you weren't going so far afield, is going to. To Baghdad or to Syria, would you travel in the UK ever for smaller in the uk?

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, we used to as a family. Like when my dad was away, my mum used to take us to caravan sites kind of on the south coast of Bognor and what was it called? I can't remember the name of the place now. Bognor Regis was where we used to go and then sort of up to the Lake District and travel around. We did lots of traveling around the uk. Yeah.

[Mike M]

So caravan holidays, which I hear a lot about from British people, is that basically those are campsites.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we used to do. We didn't have our own caravan by Stretch, you know, we used to go to a caravan site and, you know, they had a social center and. Do you know what I mean? It was sort of like. They were really good. They were really happy memories.

[Mike M]

So do you look back, are you, like, just in awe of the fact that you're. It basically seems like, you know, for most of the year you had a single mom who was managing five kids.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah. Full of admiration for what she did. And she was also a teacher. She taught at what was then called a disabled school, you know, but people who are physically impaired and, and had, or physically challenged and so she had a lot on. She had a lot on. We had, we did have au pairs who came to stay, you know, from time to time. But my elder sisters really kind of ran the house.

[Mike M]

Right. Were they benevolent leaders?

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Mike M]

I just worry about two younger boys. It could break either way. Were you ultimately. Do you feel like you were. There's that thing of, like when you have, you know, you have a working mother who obviously is doing an incredible job raising the five of you, it seems like maybe you all understood to behave.

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I wouldn't say that. I mean, I was quite. I suppose I was. We were all kind of rebellious in our own ways, put it that way. We all, you know, we all got up to stuff that we shouldn't have done, perhaps.

[Mike M]

But, you know, when you got to

[Sufi M]

these caravan holidays, was it sort of policy of your mother that it was just like, go, leave me for a bit or would you stick, stick close and stick together?

[Andy Serkis]

No, we don't. No, we'd pretty much stick together. We've sort of holiday, you know. Yeah, yeah, we, we kind of hung out and you could get. We could, you could rent these kind of. Well, they were, they were called social cycles at the time, but you know, like four wheeled bikes that you, that the four wheeled sort of. That you could all sit on.

[Mike M]

Oh, fun.

[Andy Serkis]

It's like two bicycles tied together basically.

[Mike M]

And so on a social cycle, is everyone responsible for some amount of pedaling or some people just getting a free ride?

[Andy Serkis]

The two front people.

[Mike M]

Two front people got it and then

[Andy Serkis]

the others at the back just kind of social cycles. I've not remembered that word for a long time.

[Sufi M]

Yeah, that's a new one for me. Would you go to the same sort of places year on year?

[Andy Serkis]

We tended to.

[Sufi M]

Would you make holiday friends that you might encounter, remember again and again?

[Andy Serkis]

I don't remember that so much. I don't remember. No, I don't, I don't remember. No, no, I don't think so, no.

[Mike M]

Were there people in Iraq, kids your age that you would go back every summer and reconnect with?

[Andy Serkis]

Well, we had lots of cousins at the time, you know, because my, my dad's sisters lived out there. So we had, we had a lot of Cousins that we used to go and play with and hang out with.

[Mike M]

And were you sort of like this interesting foreign visitor when you showed up? Were the cousins, like, enamored with your Britishness?

[Andy Serkis]

I don't think so. I think they just thought of us as, you know.

[Mike M]

Right, right.

[Andy Serkis]

It was just family, you know, it's just family. We did used to go. There was a. There was a club called the Alwiya Club, which was a. Sort of. A lot of expats used to hang out, and that's. That had an amazing outdoor cinema. So we used to just. Well, it wasn't an amazing. It was a wall painted white with. With a few deck chairs in front of it. But, but, but, but that was great. And I remember watching films, you know, and hanging out there and that was cool.

[Mike M]

I think it's a lost delight, the outdoor cinema.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, totally.

[Mike M]

Especially, like, that thing of, like, there's. The absence of choice is actually feels like such a freedom. Like we're just gonna go see what the movie is, you know, When I think about how much time I spend paralyzed by the options. Like, I love the idea of just walking to an outdoor cinema.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean. I mean, I've always. I was always so enamored with the idea of driving movies, which we never had in the uk, but of course, this was huge here. I'd bring back the drive in movie as well. That's.

[Mike M]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Serkis]

Shouldn't we. I mean, wouldn't that be cool?

[Sufi M]

I live in Los Angeles and there's this film series at a cemetery, and it's just one of my favorite things. It's about three to five thousand people on a lawn in front of a mausoleum, which is a big white wall. And they just project an eclectic mix of stuff on the side of it throughout the summer. And it's fabulous. It's just so nice to be around all those people and be outside and it's great.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just something I love. Cinema outdoors is the best. You know, if you've got nice weather, obviously, you know, it's. It's. There's just nothing like it. It's beautiful. I love it.

[Mike M]

We went to. My wife and I were in on like a Greek island, I want to say, like, Mykonos. And we were just like, walking after dinner, and there was just like in this little, like sort of this copse of trees, there was this little cinema, outdoor cinema. And I'm like, oh, my God, we have to go and see a movie. And it was just so Romantic. And then I think it was like the second Sherlock Holmes movie with Robert Downey Jr. And Jude Law.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike M]

And I was just, we're scared. We got like, you know, we got like beers and we sat down and like half an hour in, my wife was like, I'm sorry, are we staying for the whole movie? I was like, all right, that's fair, that's fair. I go in my head, I'm a 13 year old kid and I can't believe my luck. But you're right, this is not. This does not match with everything our evening has been up to this point.

[Andy Serkis]

I. My, My funniest experience of watching cinema abroad was I was filming in Russia actually about just after the wall had come down in the early 90s. And I. I went to a cinema that was showing the Bodyguard.

[Mike M]

Oh, wow. And.

[Andy Serkis]

But it was all simultaneously translated by one person behind the screen with a mic into Russian. So they had the volume kind of half turned down. So Kevin Costner, you know. You know, and so it was, I mean, bad rubbish Russian impersonation, but it was just like good old school, You know.

[Mike M]

I really hope he didn't try to hit that note. And I will always love you.

[Andy Serkis]

Exactly, exactly. It was quite brilliant. And I watched the whole film just mesmerized.

[Mike M]

Oh, that's really. That is fantastic. Why did you film in Russia that early?

[Andy Serkis]

It was a TV series called Grushko which starred Brian Cox as a. Wow. It was based on a Philip Kerr novel. And. And Brian Cox was playing this cop. This cop. And it was all about irradiated meat. And it was all. It was kind of, it was, you know, because obviously the war, the. The war, you know, did not come down long before. And so it was going. I've never been in a country sort of that was going through such change sort of. And actively sort of seeing it happen in front of you. Yeah, it was crazy. It was a crazy place and a

[Mike M]

crazy time that is like, that's the worst case scenario. The wall finally comes down and the first show they make is about irradiated meat.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike M]

They don't even hire local actors. I am always delighted, by the way. I love Philip Kerr. I'm very excited to try to find Grishko. I mean, the fact that it's got you and Brian Cox and it's a Philip Kerr adaptation shot in Russia. I mean, sign me up.

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, cool, Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I didn't, Didn't I buy

[Sufi M]

you a Philip Kerr? Like three.

[Mike M]

Three, yeah. You. Yeah. You did?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Yeah. The Berlin. The Berlin trilogy.

[Andy Serkis]

Wow.

[Sufi M]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Yeah.

[Andy Serkis]

Okay.

[Mike M]

That's right up my alley. I love that stuff.

[Andy Serkis]

Amazing. Cool.

[Sufi M]

Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors.

[Mike M]

Support comes from Aura Frames. Hey, Baji.

[Sufi M]

Hey, Sufi Oriframe.

[Mike M]

Pretty great Mother's Day gift, wouldn't you say?

[Sufi M]

Yeah. I mean, really, really good. If you take pictures on your phone, you get a good one. A good shot of your kids or a good shot of you and mom. You know, you could send it to her, but what's she gonna do with it? Yeah. A much better move is to send it to her aura frame. And then that picture will pop up from time to time and remind her of a great time that you guys had together.

[Mike M]

We just took a trip together. We were just talking about it. I went to Boston and Dad was like, send me all the pictures. And I was sort of like, I'll do you one better. I'll just send them straight to the aura frame and you can see them pop up as they come.

[Sufi M]

Yeah. You texted me a picture of you and mom at Fenway park. And right away I posted it to their aura and my aura. So it'll just be there. It's such a good, good way to see the best pictures in your camera roll that you're never going to see otherwise.

[Mike M]

And we do a fun thing with our mom, which is we upload pictures. Individual pictures of ourselves and then individual pictures of our dad. So that she will cheer and boo. Based on. Yeah, based on which one comes up.

[Sufi M]

Great thing about these Aura Frames, Sufi is they have free unlimited storage. So you can add as many photos and videos as you want. You can also pre upload photos before it ships. And you can keep adding from anywhere at any time.

[Mike M]

It's a really cool product. Make Mother's Day special with ORA frames named number one by wire cutter. You can save on the gifts moms love by visiting oriframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $25 off their bestselling Carver Mat frame with Code Trips. That's a U R A frames.com promo. Code trips support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Andy Serkis]

Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney. Let's go get ready for a new case.

[Mike M]

We're gonna crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time.

[Andy Serkis]

New friends.

[Mike M]

You are Gary Desnake. And your last name?

[Narrator]

Desnake.

[Andy Serkis]

Dream Team New habitats.

[Mike M]

Zootopia has a secret Reptile population.

[Andy Serkis]

You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home.

[Mike M]

You're clearly working it.

[Narrator]

Zootopia 2.

[Andy Serkis]

Now available on Disney. Rated PG now at McDonald's.

[Mike M]

A McDouble is $2.50.

[Andy Serkis]

So you can get your gym gains

[Mike M]

on or just get lunch for only $2.50.

[Andy Serkis]

Get more value on the under $3 menu. Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary.

[Mike M]

Prices may be higher for delivery. Your kids. Did you raise your kids in England?

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah.

[Mike M]

Great. And did. What was your, has your professional life led to unique travel opportunities for them or are the two been separate?

[Andy Serkis]

Oh, yeah. No, no. I mean they've, they've, they've just lived and breathed growing up. Lorraine, my wife is an actress and she's, you know, she's very quite prolific British TV actress and, and all our kids have ended up being actors because they were literally born into it. You know, Lorraine's filming a TV series, rushed home, gave birth, went back onto the TV show and I was, I was, you know, she was expressing milk and I was feeding Ruby, our daughter. And then she'd come off set and you know, it was just like that's how it started. And it's never been any different. They've just been an integral part. When I went to New Zealand, they all came down when they were very, very young to do Lord of the Rings. And then, you know, and then at various stages they've been back when we're shooting King Kong and they went to school in New Zealand. Then when we went back to do the Hobbit, they actually started doing school in the uk so they couldn't. So that was the worst period actually, because I was away for a long period of time because I was directing the second unit on that. And it was, it was like I was away for a year basically, so I didn't get to see them. That's, that's my, that's, that's the biggest thing, the biggest, biggest downer of, you know, in terms of having great opportunities and things happen to you and then being away from your family. That's a tricky one.

[Mike M]

Right.

[Andy Serkis]

And because my dad had been away all his, you know, I'd sort of, I thought this is history repeating itself a little. Yeah.

[Mike M]

And you didn't even open a hospital, you know.

[Andy Serkis]

No, exactly, exactly.

[Mike M]

Hey, I noticed that in your, in your bio. So had you directed anything before the second, you know, the Hobbit? Because obviously you and I want to talk about it. You, you just directed Animal Farm. So obviously was, but was that the beginning of your Transition into doing behind the camera stuff.

[Andy Serkis]

I'd always wanted to, you know, whilst, you know, I been acting for many years and started in theater and as soon as I started acting on screen, I. I mean, I studied visual arts before I became an actor, so I wanted to. I'd always been interested in telling stories visually and made short films and was always doing that, was doing things like that. And I knew that. That acting. I loved acting, but I also knew that I wanted to direct. And so. So it's sort of. It sort of transitioned actually. When we were making Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson became aware that I was very interested in directing. And so when it came around to the Hobbit and it was going to be like a huge cast of actors that would go between the main unit and the second unit, they asked me if I'd direct the second unit. And so I shot. We shot for 200 days on the second unit and it was. But. And I was just getting ready to make my first sort of feature, independent feature film with like three actors in four locations. And suddenly I found myself in front of a crew of 200 people shooting native stereo at 48 frames a second with, you know, going across New Zealand. And I mean, it was. It was a phenomenal education.

[Mike M]

It is so funny because, like, second unit, that part sounds right for a first job and then the Hobbit is like massively wrong.

[Andy Serkis]

Exactly, exactly. It was just like I had to learn very quickly. And yeah, just the responsibility was so enormous. But I know Pete. Pete just trusted me and we'd. We'd been through a whole journey, of course, with. With the kind of creation of the character of Gollum and the whole visual effects side of things and the tying together of performance and. And technology and I guess we. And then I'd work with him on King Kong. And these are my people, really, the family in New Zealand. They're such an incredible team and a phenomenal sort of, you know, the same people that I'm working on, you know, with now. We're going back to do the film now. The hunt for Gollum is like. It's a lot of the same people. 25 years on regrouping and I keep going back there because they just. It's just such a great creative atmosphere where everyone is treating each other with respect and is valued and it's the sort of perfect working scenario. You know, it's like a big family and we've all got kids that have grown up now and everyone knows each other. It's pretty cool. It Just happens to be on the other side of the world from where I live.

[Mike M]

Right.

[Andy Serkis]

That's the only problem.

[Mike M]

Yeah.

[Sufi M]

And the hunt for Gollum I didn't know was happening. But you're directing that and obviously starring in it. That'll be the next in the series.

[Andy Serkis]

That will be. Yes, indeed. We're in pre production right now, and so, you know, I've been down there for months and months.

[Mike M]

Well, it's funny, we just. We were talking with Vincent d', Onofrio, who's a wonderful actor, and he was talking about how he's been in the Marvel universe playing this character kingpin for 10 years, and he was talking about how rare it is for an actor to play a character for 10 years. And I mean, when you think about your relationship with Gollum, I mean, it is truly something. And I mean, by the way, it would have been truly something if it had stopped, you know, after the first trilogy, after, you know, like, so all these moments, it would have been the most complete body of work. And so it really is something. And it's so exciting that there's. There's going to be more of it.

[Andy Serkis]

It's, it's, it is. I mean, and there's a lot to investigate with the character still. So it's, it's. Yeah, it's. It's a really interesting exploration.

[Mike M]

Yeah. What about. So you did. I mean, I will say Animal Farm one does not naturally adapt itself to an animated film or a film at all, really. And the undertaking of this, you know, I was talking. I had Katen Matarazzo on the show and he was, you know, talking on my show about how there was an interesting approach, you had to sort of add different characters. How long has this process been going on for you? Like, from the.

[Andy Serkis]

Just about 15 years.

[Mike M]

So that's fine. That's not a. That's a big easy time.

[Andy Serkis]

It's a quick one I knocked out, you know,

[Mike M]

and it's under two hours. Right. So I can watch it in under two hours. But it took you 15 years.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah, exactly. I know. I mean, that's the thing. Look, that was the first film, actually, when we formed our company. Jonathan Cavendish is my producing partner. We set up the Imaginarium, which was a performance capture studio in the uk, and, And a production company, and the first film that we thought. And it was actually when we were doing the Planet of the Apes movies, and there's a scene in the first Planet of the Apes movie, I was playing Caesar, you know, the central kind of ape character. And he's in a facility, he. He's incarcerated in this facility which is obviously experimenting on. On apes. And he, he leads the apes to freedom. And there's a sort of rebellion. And I suddenly, I'd always loved Animal Farm as a book as a kid growing up, and I certainly thought there hasn't been an adaptation of Animal Farm for a long time. There was a 1954 animation and then there was a 1990 kind of animatronic, Jim Henson style, Hallmark film version of it. But I just thought performance captures the perfect way of doing it. And then, and then. So Jonathan Cavendish and I, who was a big film producer, he done the British, the Bridget Jones films. And we'd become, you know, sort of linked for life, as it were, as. And we still are with our company. And we, we thought we'd get this off the ground. We got the rights. We went to the Orwell estate, they gave us the rights and we said, we want. If Orwell were writing this now, who would his. You know, we wanted to update it. We always wanted to update it, make it more contemporary, not talk about totalitarian Russia in the 1940s, but transpose the exactly the same themes about power, the corruption of power and, you know, fake news and, and, or, you know, the disseminate, you know, misinformation and, and, and the utopia gone wrong. But it was, it was like, how do we make this applicable to a young audience? And this was in. So this was back in 2011 where we get first. I first had the idea and it's taken ages because, because we thought we'd immediately. It would be like, oh, Animal Farmer. Everyone would want to see animal farming. Every studio would want to make Animal Farm. Wrong. Nobody wanted to make Animal Farm. It took forever. Everyone thought it is a very spinachy kind of, you know, sort of beating at the audience over the head politically. Orwell's too dark, etc.

[Mike M]

And I do love that you thought like, you know, kids love animated films and they love George Orwell.

[Andy Serkis]

Well, I just remember being so knocked out by the book. Did you read the book?

[Mike M]

You read the book? I was knocked out by the book too. And you know, by the way, it is, you know, look, Lord of the Rings is a challenging book that kids love and then made a great movie. So I would understand the, you know, the impulse.

[Andy Serkis]

Yeah. So we started work on it and went and approached a whole bunch of actors, most of whom have ended up in the film sort of 12 years later when we were actually making it. I mean, like Seth Rogen and Jim Parsons and Glenn Close were all people we approached immediately who all loved the book and everyone who's in it. And it is an exceptional cast. You know, you know, we've got Woody Harrelson and, and Kieran Culkin and Steve Buscemi and Iman Villani and it just goes on, you know, that every single Laverne Cox is just a fantastic cast. Everyone we approached was just like, I mean, definitely, I love the book. So, but that, but we had to find a way of telling the story, which I wanted to make it for a young audience. I want, I really crucially wanted to have a debate between young kids, their parents and their grandparents all watching the film together in the same room. And nobody, no studio could understand that concept that this could possibly be a family film. And my argument was, you know, yes, it's dark, there are dark things in it. But if you present it in such a way as an animated version, where you use that animation, the bucolic kind of the feel, the, the, you know, the innocence of the animals, because it is, you know, the whole point of Orwell writing about totalitarianism using farm animals is, is, is that he wants to communicate ideas to, to a younger, inquiring mind. So, so that, that fits in with our version. But the book doesn't have any protagonist or central character that you, where you can follow the story through, you know, and emotionally engage with because it's quite an objective book. And so, so that was why we, there's mention in the book of sort of in the last part of the book of these young piglets who are elite pigs, because obviously the pigs ascend, take over control and power and the rest of the animals are treated like dirt. And I thought, well, what happens if you take those. You know, the pigs in the book are very off stage characters and you hear what's going on in the corruption of power and how they're becoming more interested in trading with humans after saying that we will never ever communicate or trade with humans. So, so it's so, so these. So I thought, well, what if, if, what if we actually make the central character a young piglet who we then follow and go on the moral journey with. And he's, he's an innocent. He just sees himself as an animal like all the other animals, but gradually gets corrupted by this powerful, charismatic, narcissistic, funny, you know, leader and, and, and gets pulled away from the sort of slightly more community orientated leader, Snowball, played a lot by Laverne Cox and, and gets Sucked in by this very funny guy who, who eventually takes over and a good entertainer. And so, so he gets corrupted and then, and then at a certain point he realizes what, what's happened and, and as their utopia falls apart and, and it becomes another version of the greed and cruelty that was that they'd faced with humans, he has to make amends. So then we've got sort of an interesting story and it's still, I mean thematically it's still entirely the book, but it's just the only other thing that we changed really I suppose was not ending in such a bleak place. Because when kids sit down, hopefully after having watched this movie, you know, you didn't want them to kind of go well, oh my gosh, the world is hopeless. We're never. What can we.

[Mike M]

Right, right.

[Andy Serkis]

So, so we've got an ending which is an open ended question which is, you know, in the book it ends with all the animals standing outside the window looking in through it and seeing pigs and men and looking from one for pig to man and man to pig and not being able to tell the difference. And it's a very, very bleak ending. But whereas we end with, with a much more sort of open ended, as I say, open ended question, which is history repeats itself. This has gone horribly wrong. It'll probably go wrong again. But we have to keep trying and we, and, and it's in the trying that hopefully you'll find a solution. So it's, it's not a sort of a Hollywood ending or a wrapped up neatly in a bow ending. It's very much a kind of okay, this is going to be down to you kids when we're gone. And you know, it's, it's like, you know, you've got to start thinking about this and that's fantastic, you know, so, so that's, that was the, that's the idea behind this when we were by

[Mike M]

the way, 15 years. It's really something. I mean it's truly really something. And, and we're glad that as soon as you wrap up the press for this, you can start doing a new Lord of the Rings. Just that you can rest.

[Sufi M]

Hey, before, you know you have to run. Yeah, we know you have to run, Andy, but we do have a speed round of questions. Let us know if you have time for this. If you don't, we, we understand, but we can try to be quick. You let us know.

[Andy Serkis]

Maybe one.

[Sufi M]

Okay.

[Mike M]

All right, one. Have you been to the Grand Canyon?

[Andy Serkis]

No, I really want to go to the Grand Canyon.

[Mike M]

Great. Perfect. Answer. Thank you so much. Andy. You did it.

[Sufi M]

Thank you so much, Andy.

[Andy Serkis]

Okay. Thank you. It's been lovely speaking with you. Yeah.

[Sufi M]

Bye.

[Mike M]

Great to see you again.

[Narrator]

Family chips with the match, my brothers. Family chips with.

[Andy Serkis]

Brothers. Here.

[Mike M]

Go.

[Narrator]

When Andy was growing up, he would travel to Baghdad every summer with his mom and siblings to see his dad. They take trips to Syria or maybe check out Babylon taken in the Middle east, see Beirut in Lebanon. With his dad was narcoleptic at the wheel. Watch out, you would end up in a field he would just not often fall asleep come to as he was driving off the street. A Halloween club was great A movie showed up on the wall Social cycle all the way Daddy built a hospital Cheap toys bought in the bazaars and camping underneath the stars Hot seats in the Pontiac stow away caught a ride back. Got home opened up his sleeping bag so gross inside there was a desert rat jumped out Desert rat just ran away no doubt he had had his own vacation Sam. And he's an actor and a director and it was legal and also Caesar and it was king go and also go reason he came it.