GIANCARLO ESPOSITO Rode Wild White Horses

Summary

Podcast Summary: Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers – Episode Featuring Giancarlo Esposito: "Rode Wild White Horses"

Release Date: October 8, 2024 | Guests: Giancarlo Esposito | Hosts: Seth Meyers and Josh Meyers

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Introduction to Giancarlo Esposito

The episode kicks off with the Meyers brothers, Seth and Josh, warmly welcoming Giancarlo Esposito to their show. Seth expresses his admiration, stating, “You have done some of my favorite things. You have been in some of my favorite television shows, and I am very, very happy every time I am lucky enough to see you” (06:49). Giancarlo responds humbly, emphasizing his collaborative approach in acting: “What I do is mostly a collaboration... when it works, it's a beautiful thing” (07:33).

Early Life and Multicultural Upbringing

Giancarlo delves into his unique upbringing, revealing he was born in Copenhagen, Denmark, to an opera singer mother from Alabama and an Italian father who worked backstage in the San Carlo Opera in Naples. He shares, “I have that part of me that is multicultural in every sense of the word” (08:55). The blend of Italian and American influences shaped his worldview from an early age.

Emotional Journey to Naples

Reflecting on a poignant trip to Naples with his father, Giancarlo describes a deeply emotional experience: “I stood in that opera house and just cried tears because all of my familial history came back to me” (11:06). He recounts the challenge of reconnecting with his roots and the complex relationship with his father, who was initially reluctant to revisit Italy.

Military School and Family Dynamics

Giancarlo shares his tumultuous experience at Mount St. Joseph Military Academy, highlighting disciplinary challenges and the impact on his relationship with his brother. “I learned how to be a gentleman, table manners... all that is the good news of it” (36:32). However, the strict environment fostered a domineering dynamic between him and his brother, shaping his early sense of responsibility and discipline.

Transition to Acting and Career Milestones

Moving from musicals to dramatic acting, Giancarlo discusses his decision to deepen his craft beyond Broadway. His breakthrough came with a dramatic role at the Negro Ensemble Company, earning him an Obie Award: “That solidified my confidence that I could be a dramatic actor and that I could affect people on a deeper level” (57:53). This transition marked the beginning of his illustrious career in film and television.

Time in New Mexico and Personal Growth

Giancarlo reflects on his years in New Mexico while working on "Breaking Bad" and "Better Call Saul." He describes the area as “different pace” and “felt like ordinary people” (63:24). During the pandemic, he utilized his solitary time to develop his own projects and cultivate personal growth, emphasizing the importance of resilience and adaptation: “This taught me to be alone... cultivated a podcast, cultivated two different projects” (65:41).

Personal Anecdotes and Family Stories

Throughout the conversation, Giancarlo shares heartfelt and humorous anecdotes from his childhood, such as learning to drive at 13 and his experiences with his creative but sometimes erratic mother. A standout moment includes his daring solo drive to a Broadway show, resulting in a minor car accident: “I landed on the white fence and then landed on the ground... felt like I ruined the vacation” (45:43).

Final Reflections and Q&A

As the episode winds down, the hosts engage Giancarlo in a light-hearted Q&A segment:

• Ideal Vacation: Adventurous (69:25)
• Favorite Means of Transportation: Motorcycle (69:34)
• Vacation Companion: Youngest daughter, Ruby (70:07)
• Hometown Recommendation: Elmsford, New York – “Go to King Pizza and do nothing” (70:28)
• Grand Canyon Experience: Although he hadn't visited, he expresses a keen desire to see it: “I was so jealous” (70:47)

Closing Remarks

Giancarlo concludes with gratitude for the conversation, mentioning his upcoming role in "Captain America 4: Brave New World,” and shares heartfelt appreciation: “You have been lovely, both of you... I just adore both of you” (71:31).

Notable Quotes

• Giancarlo Esposito: “What I do is mostly a collaboration... when it works, it's a beautiful thing” (07:33).
• Giancarlo Esposito: “I have that part of me that is multicultural in every sense of the word” (08:55).
• Giancarlo Esposito: “That solidified my confidence that I could be a dramatic actor and that I could affect people on a deeper level” (57:53).
• Giancarlo Esposito: “This taught me to be alone... cultivated a podcast, cultivated two different projects” (65:41).

Conclusion

This episode of Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers provides an intimate glimpse into Giancarlo Esposito's life, from his multicultural upbringing and formative experiences to his evolution into a distinguished actor. The conversation balances personal anecdotes with professional insights, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of Giancarlo’s journey and the influences that shaped his remarkable career.

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Transcript

[Sufi]

Hey, Pashi.

[Pashi]

Hey, Sufi.

[Sufi]

Somebody's getting married in five days.

[Pashi]

I know it's you. I know. I'm well aware.

[Sufi]

You're well aware. How you feeling?

[Pashi]

I'm excited. I just hope that it's a lot of work putting a wedding together and I just hope it goes off without a hitch.

[Sufi]

Axel, who's six, your nephew. Yeah, I know him. He wanted me to ask. He wants to know if he can bring two friends.

[Pashi]

He wants a plus two.

[Sufi]

He want. I know it's late in the game, but can he get a plus two?

[Pashi]

Are they both real or either of them imaginary?

[Sufi]

No, they're both real and they both have severe dietary restrictions. Dad's really thrown down the gauntlet, FYI. I think he wrote his speech. We're both talking at your wedding. I think he wrote his. Over the course of months he's been.

[Pashi]

Working on it because I'll get these little texts that are clearly speech based where he wants bits of information or clarifications on some things. And I really appreciate it. I mean, it shows that he is putting in the work again.

[Sufi]

I wish my father in law, Tom, had done that because at our wedding he famously got up and had maybe put no thought into his toast.

[Pashi]

Yeah, he had some wrong and some bad info.

[Sufi]

He immediately said, I'll never forget when we all went to Madrid and Alexi heckled her dad and said, I've never been to Madrid.

[Pashi]

And he was like, she wasn't wrong.

[Sufi]

Yeah, no, he wasn't. Oh, she def wasn't wrong. That was definite Tom Fumble. But so dad I think is real because again, he famously had a great, great toast at my wedding. But then you sort of dropped the mic. Yeah, it was like how Anthony Mackie also had a really good rap in 8 mile. People don't forget that. Yeah, he was a good rap. It was a good rap and then excellent rap. And then nobody remembers Anthony Mackie's rap because Eminem's rap, and this is how people talk about raps. His rap was the best rap. And then the famous line, which I'm sure I've said on this podcast, which is, somebody came up to dad and said, oh, my God, Josh's toast made me cry. And he said, how do you think I feel? Before he gave it, I was the best toast you'd ever heard.

[Pashi]

Yeah, well, he's got another. Got another bite of the apple.

[Sufi]

He's got another bite of the apple. And I feel like he's. I think he's trying to get in my head because he's a lot of like, how's yours coming? You know? And I'm like, Dr. Trump trying to rattle me.

[Pashi]

We did a live premiere of an episode of Family Trips, which is. It comes on YouTube live. 7am Pacific, 8am Eastern on Tuesday, 7am.

[Sufi]

Pacific and 8am Eastern are two different times.

[Pashi]

Didn't I say 10 Eastern?

[Sufi]

Yeah, I thought you said 8. Yeah, I don't want to. I just don't want. You know, I feel like if mackenzie hears this, she might call off the wedding. If she doesn't think you understand time zones. Anyway, keep going.

[Pashi]

But it was really fun. It was sort of live chat. I was on. There was some debate among our listeners as to what they wanted to be known as. There was. Trippies was mentioned.

[Sufi]

Trippers.

[Pashi]

Tripsters.

[Sufi]

I think Trippers would be my pick. Do you have a pick among those three?

[Pashi]

Well, I felt like the. I don't even know what to call. I don't want to sort of put my finger on the scale, but there was a lot. There seemed to be a lot of support for Tripsters. Trippers might imply sort of a use of illicit substances.

[Sufi]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

And frippers. What would frippers. If you hurt frippers, what would you think just happened?

[Pashi]

Well, that something happened to Mom.

[Sufi]

Something befell Mom. Yeah. And it would be a sort of. I don't know, a sort of vague injury where she would say she got frippered.

[Pashi]

Fripper comes from. She had a fingernail get, like, broken or bent back, and she said, my nail got frippered. And now frippered sort of stands in for anything that might befall you.

[Sufi]

Yeah, yeah. It's not quite. It's a lot of, like, I almost. I think she lives her life. Pretty much every anecdote she tells us is about how she almost got frippered. Yeah, she's not getting frippered as much as her usage would lead you to believe, but anyway. All right, so Tripsters. Tripsters.

[Pashi]

Maybe I feel like.

[Sufi]

Yeah, we'll leave it. We'll keep it in the hopper and keep working on it. Yeah, this is. There's a big movie coming out. It's out. This conversation happened before it came out with. It's Megalopolis. It's directed by Francis Ford Coppola. It has an amazing cast. Giancarlo Esposito, which I did not know is how you said his last name. And we established in the podcast that it is.

[Pashi]

Yeah, A lot of people would be saying Esposito Esposito.

[Sufi]

Esposito. And he's got an incredible story, an incredible background, an incredible. Just.

[Pashi]

Gentleman.

[Sufi]

He's a gentleman. Yeah, he really is. And I think I'll probably. I hope this won't bother you. I think a lot of my best man toast is gonna be about him now.

[Pashi]

Well, he's a good man, so.

[Sufi]

He's a good man. Yeah. You know. Well, I'm very excited for all of you to hear that. But you know what? As excited as I am for everybody to listen to the pod, more excited about five days from now. All right, but first, Jeff Tweedy family.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Chips with the My Brothers family chips with the Mice Brothers. Here we go.

[Sufi]

Yes.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Hello.

[Sufi]

There he is.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

How are you?

[Pashi]

Good.

[Sufi]

It's so nice to see you again.

[Pashi]

You look so classic.

[Sufi]

You look.

[Pashi]

You're a classic gentleman. And then with your backdrop, it's just even more classical.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Look at your fresh faces today. Wow.

[Sufi]

Awesome.

[Pashi]

We do what we can.

[Sufi]

We are going to get into your upbringing, and Josh is very loath when I use this podcast to talk about our guests work, but I just want to get out of the way. You have done some of my favorite things. You have been in some of my favorite television shows, and I am very, very happy every time I am lucky enough to see you.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Oh, thank you so much. I love what I do, and I start with that always. I've been blessed to have worked with some great folks, and what I do is mostly a collaboration. And if you have great writing and great words and you can sort of fill the in between the lines with some character stuff, it works. And when it works, it's a beautiful thing.

[Sufi]

One of my favorite shows, which is streaming again on Peacock, is Homicide, Life on the Streets, and you showed up for the final season of that. And then I realized your upbringing is kind of a little bit like Yafe Cotto's character, Al Giardello, because you are half Italian.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I certainly am. And in my conversations to get into that show, I remember really wanting to expound on the background that I have to make it more natural. And I would look at Yaphet and go, oh, my gosh, this guy is really African royalty. And part of that looks Italian. But we. You know what I mean? But we. Tom Fontana and I had long conversations about wanting to get some of that Italianism into the show. And I was really honored to come in in a year where Andre Brauer was leaving and take over that storyline in a new way in the Relationship as Mike Girardello to Yafet's, you know, very stern captain and fatherly attitude.

[Sufi]

I also think of you as. I guess I always associate you as a New Yorker, especially, I think, because maybe the first time I laid eyes on you was in do the Right Thing. But you were not born in New York. I think no one will guess where you were born. Lay it on us.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yeah. Copenhagen, Denmark, is where I was born, which is really out of form for me, being the Italian who was born in Copenhagen to a mother who was from Alabama, who became an opera singer, went to Europe, met my father at all Scala in Milan and also in San Carlo Opera in Naples, and she was performing with Josephine Baker when I was born. And she had had my brother in Rome and was maybe six months pregnant with me and had these large hoop dresses made to hide her belly. And she was doing a supper club act at that time. So I have that, you know, that part of me that is multicultural in every sense of the word.

[Pashi]

Was your mother performing, like, right up until your birth or a couple weeks before?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

She was. She was, until she describes it to me, she described it to me that she had a country doctor who didn't monitor. Did natural things and didn't really monitor her weight. So my birth was difficult for her because I was born £13 and so. Yeah, so that. So I think I tortured her a bit in my coming into the world. But, you know, I love that I have this background to speak of because it's had me look at the world through a different lens. You know, raised in a household with a mom and dad who listened to operatic music, who that was their life was the creative arts. My father was a stage technician and lighting man and fly man. He did everything backstage in a small opera house in Naples, Italy, which was San Carlo. And I recently went back there. I went back there last year. I took three of my four daughters. We met the fourth in Portugal for her engagement, but we went to Naples and I went to that opera house and I stood in that opera house and just cried tears because all of my familial history came back to me.

[Sufi]

Now, two things I want to say. One, I feel like they should have written an opera for your mom about someone giving birth to a 13 pound baby, because I feel like those would be really fun notes to hit. Now, when you go back, I say this. My children obviously are younger. Mine are age 6 and 3. But when you went and had an emotional moment in the opera house in Naples, were your children also emotional or Were they the kind that I have that make fun of their dad when he gets choked up?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

They saw that I was very moved. It was a strange situation. The opera house closes during a lunch period because, you know, in Italy they take very long lunches. And so they went sort of. There was someone in the box office who was explaining. As soon as he said they were closed until 3, I just took off. So they watched me go one way, and they were talking to this gentleman. What's he doing? What's he doing? And my kids call me extra. Anyway, and so I just went right up the corridor, right into the opera house and stood there and was frozen by the red draperies, by the red seats, by the size of it. It was intimate by the visions that were coming to me that I had never seen. But I'm making the imaginary visions of my mother on stage, and my. And the curtains were partially up so I could see the backstage, and tears are coming to my eyes. And then a man taps me on the shoulder and says, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sufi]

You have to leave.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

No, no, no, no, no. And so I came out, and they saw I was visibly moved, so they didn't make fun of me, which was nice.

[Sufi]

That's very nice. So your parents never. Then when you were young with your siblings, they never took you on a trip back to Naples to show.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

They never did. I did do one trip to Italy with my father, which was a lifelong yearning for me to do with him. And I went back with him in the early 90s, and he was a very complicated man, my dad. And so I kept having the feeling that he didn't really want to go back to Italy. He would go back every year when I was young, which ceased after I was 13 or 14 years old. He didn't go back anymore. And so he was a bit curmudgeonly on that trip. But I was able to go to Rome with him, and it was a bit of a bittersweet trip. We went to Rome, we went to Pisa, we went to Assisi, because I was a very spiritual, religious kid who was an altar boy, and my father had become basically an agnostic. So, you know, it was a strange moment to go to the Vatican and him not want to come in. No, Giancarlo, I don't want to go in. So what do you mean, you don't want to go? I don't want to go in. I said, well, why wouldn't you want to? No, no, no, it's not for me. It's not for Me, you go. You go. And so the whole trip was about me bonding with him. And he doesn't want to go in, but he knows all the history about the Roman guard and the Swiss guards who guard the Pope and all this. So he's giving me all this history and drawing me in. And so I went in and walked around by myself and came back and met him outside, and he feeding the birds with some, you know, birdseed or whatever it is out in the courtyard, which is really beautiful with fountains and all that. So it was a really interesting trip for me because I realized he had. He was put off a little bit about going back to where he started.

[Pashi]

What do you think it was about it? That it was just that you can't go back or that the past is not.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I think it were his memories of going to Rome from Naples now. I started to figure it out when I went to Napoli. Napoli is very different. It's a very edgy town, great food, great theater, great people, but tougher and rougher. And he left there at a young age to go to Rome and become an artiste. Right. After all, if you're working in the opera and theater, you're an artist. And so I had the same experience, you know, going into the galleries in Rome because he, as a boy, it didn't cost anything. And so, you know, we wanted to go into the Medici Castle, which is beautiful. And no, no, Giancarlo's too much. I said, what do you mean he's too much? Giancarlo says, no, this is ridiculous. This is too much. And I say, papa, I'm paying for it. No, no, you don't pay for me. And so it happened again at the Medici Castle. And I thought, oh, my gosh, what's going on with him? But I let him go through his journey, and his moment went in, looked at the. David looked at this, and looked at that, came out, and then we proceeded on. Assisi was beautiful because there was a lot of time outside, but he didn't. He was. You know, he was really shied away from the religious connection to Rome and the Pope and all that. And I have a feeling that it was because of his childhood upbringing, you know, those memories that come back that you don't. You haven't never looked at or faced. To me, it was just marvelous to see the art and to spend some time with him.

[Sufi]

Did he. Did he spend the rest of his life in New York?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

He did. He spent the rest of his life in New York. He worked in the New York Theater and. Well, most of his life until close to the end. Then he went to Florida. So Florida to me is the last stop. Either way. He went to Florida for a lot of people there. For a lot of people. What is that about? He started an opera company. It's weird, right?

[Pashi]

He went and started an opera company.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

He started the Opera Buffa Company. Opera Buffa meaning short opera. Because he felt like Americans couldn't appreciate two and three hour operas and he would shorten them and he tried to start a company which, you know, it didn't really take off, but it was a great idea, I think. Yeah.

[Sufi]

I mean, and you know, a lot of people certainly. I think most people don't go to Florida in their final days to try to start a short opera company. So I applaud him, absolutely.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I looked up to him for doing that. I truly did. And he almost had all that come to fruition. He did a few performances and it kind of worked. But then he started to fall into ill health and he took off on us.

[Sufi]

What about your. How did your mother find her way from Alabama to Europe?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

My mom was performing at a great place in Cleveland, Ohio, called Karamu House, which was a training ground for young actors, writers, dancers and musicians. And she won the Marian Anderson Scholarship. Marian Anderson was the first officially successful African American opera singer. And she left a scholarship fund. And my mother won that scholarship which allowed her to come to New York to a place called International House, which was on Riverside Drive, near Grant's tomb, up at 123rd, 124th street, where she continued her studies and then had an audition for a show, a State Department tour which they were doing in the 50s to bring American culture to Europe. And she won. She won the audition of playing alternating Bess in a show called Porgy and Bess by George and Ira Gershwin. And Leonting Price was the other best. So they alternated on a State Department tour, which was about a four year period in Europe. And that's what brought her to Europe. And that's how she met my father and fell in love and had her mother come over from Alabama while they got married and started this very romantic, great love affair of two people, one on stage and one behind the scenes in their partnership in the creative arts.

[Sufi]

What a thing. And then was Copenhagen for when you were born in Copenhagen. Were they there for a long time?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

They were there, I remember, for a little over a year. My brother was born in Rome. He was born. There was a hospital on the hill where Nero fiddled while Rome burned So my parents, you know, my brother eventually became a violinist for many years. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So my parents had this romantic view of the world and she then went to Copenhagen to open up for Josephine Baker. And so there was this connection to Josephine. They became friends. And so we lived in Denmark. And I have some photos of me in Denmark. One sitting on a nun's lap and one with my godmother. Her name was Addie. Blonde and blue eyed. And they loved the feeling in Denmark. I think in Rome at that time, they experienced some experiences had them feel like they didn't belong in a way, because it was. Although Italy has a history of welcoming soldiers after the war and interracial marriages, it was something that was kind of acceptable in some places, in other places not. And so I had a feeling that they were really comfortable in Denmark. And so I'm reminded through some photos that I've looked back at that it was a happy time for them there. So it was about a year before they moved on to Hamburg. My mother performed at the Hamburg Staats Opera and then of course back to Rome, toured around Europe for a little bit before coming back to America.

[Sufi]

I do just want to say real quick that I have a three year old daughter who is a blonde, blue eyed Addie. So come full circle. She's Adelaide.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I love it. I love it. It's a beautiful name. Adelaide truly is.

[Sufi]

Yes, it was our grandmother's name as well. So it's inherited.

[Pashi]

Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors.

[Sufi]

Family Trips is supported by Airbnb. Hey, Bashi.

[Pashi]

Yes, Sufi?

[Sufi]

You know we have an annual trip.

[Pashi]

Yeah, we sure do. We get a couple regular trips, but which trip are you talking about?

[Sufi]

I'm talking about the fact that you and I and 10 of our closest college friends get together every September for our fantasy football draft.

[Pashi]

Such a trip.

[Sufi]

And very little of the trip is about a fantasy football draft.

[Pashi]

Yeah, I always feel a little nerdy saying that we're going on a fantasy football draft, but we're going to hang out with our buddies.

[Sufi]

Yeah, that's why I say it's a fantasy friendship draft. Would that make it less nerdy or is that maybe worse?

[Pashi]

No, I think it's charming. It's sweet.

[Sufi]

So this year for our fantasy friendship draft, we have a fantasy location booked. And it's all thanks to Airbnb. We found a place that has enough space for all of us and enough bedrooms for all of us and has a lot of outdoor activities, a fire Pit. There's a fire pit. Possum.

[Pashi]

There's a fire pit. I want to say there's a volleyball court.

[Sufi]

Yep.

[Pashi]

There's a pickleball court. There's a lot.

[Sufi]

It's driving distance to a hospital that a bunch of 50 year old guys are gonna have to go to when we blow our ACLs. Yeah. But in general, it is so nice that it has all the things that we could not get with our group at a hotel.

[Pashi]

Oh, absolutely not. Because what you want is you wanna be able to hang out together for as long as you can and then if it's time to go to bed, you go to bed. But everyone else is sort of in the same place. And one thing that we're sort of focused on on trips like this is no new friends.

[Sufi]

No new friends. We don't want to meet them, we don't want to make them. We're happy with who we are. And maybe you're someone who's thinking, you know what? My home could be a great get together for old friends who are not looking to meet new people. You've put a lot of time, effort and work into your home and someone out there would probably love to experience it while they're traveling. And then they would rave about how it was the highlight of their trip. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host support for family trips comes from Everyday Dose. Hey, Poshi.

[Pashi]

Yes, Oopfie?

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to feel like better?

[Sufi]

Excuse me? I said say hello to it.

[Pashi]

Oh, hello. Everyday Dose. Wouldn't it be nice to sort of feel a lot clearer, a lot more awake, a lot more with it other than drinking just like a ton of.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

Yeah, and your skin is so elastic.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

If you haven't used your sticker yet, my kids want it. Go to everyday dashe.com trips for 25% off plus 5 free gifts with your first order.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Here we go.

[Pashi]

You moved to New York when you were six, am I correct? Yes, thereabouts. And so prior to that, you were just traveling around wherever your parents were performing and working?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yeah, absolutely. I learned about the world through the eyes of the theater and the creative arts and didn't know much. You know, there were certain clues that we were kind of colorblind growing up. You know, we were in Germany and, you know, a man came to the door to deliver groceries, and he was as black as my boots, and I had never seen someone that dark. And my brother and I started screaming and we answered the door because, you know, when you're four or five years old, you want to do everything. You want to be grown. And so we answered the door and all my mother and father heard were Schwarzenegger, Schwarzer, Schwartzer. So we literally ran into a closet. My mother was kind of freaked out and came to the door, got the groceries and realized, oh, they don't really see that I'm darker than Giovanni. But this man at the door was African. So as I understand, he was really kind of a blue black color. And so to us, he looked like a ghost. But that's when she realized she had to really start to figure out how to speak to us about people of the world, thinking already that we were worldly because we had been around but didn't really understand this man who was at the door. Accent and everything else. But yeah, I had a very different kind of upbringing. That was my bubble was burst when I came to America.

[Sufi]

It is so funny. Your mom, I understand your mom being from Alabama and she has kids who've been in like, Copenhagen, Rome, Hamburg. And it must have been so jarring for her to be like, are you telling me they're not worldly, like, what do I have to do? And when you say America opened your eyes, I worry, and I'm afraid to ask, but I'm assuming for the worse.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

It was a discovery for me. You know, we're talking 62, 63. And so that period of time in America, I think there was a certain tension between blacks and whites in certain parts of the country. And I felt shielded from that as I grew up in the theater. It gave me an identity that didn't have to identify with any color because I felt like I was the best of both worlds. That's what I was taught. And so I didn't understand when people just looked at me and had a judgment just based on the color of my skin. And so that was the difficult hurdle to try to find out how to embody all of who I am without any apology and not feel like I wasn't acceptable. And so it was a tricky balance to find, and I think I finally achieved finding it through my work.

[Sufi]

Was the move back to New York because your parents were planning on having a life in the theater in New York?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Absolutely. My father joined the union, and he experienced a certain other kind of racism because it was all Irish. And so he was an Italian and trying to join the Irish clan, which was the union in the theater. And so he felt like he was always struggling against being looked at as if he had the skill to do what he does. I've recently unearthed some photos of him behind a lighting board in Italy and realized, oh, he wasn't only a carpenter and fly man and property man for hello Dolly in New York with Carol Channing and that championship season, that show he worked on, but he was also a lighting man. And that takes some skill to be able to light a production from a small lighting board and change that atmospheric lighting feeling as the opera or the show went on. And I don't know if he ever achieved that, because in the union here, you had to come up as a carpenter. You had to come up, and as he would say to me, you have to shape up. You have to shape up and earn it. And I think it took him a long time to feel comfortable in the union here. And he was a bit of a curmudgeon, and he spoke up for his rights. And so I think he became, after a while, ostracized. I remember at one point he was working at the theater downtown, a few blocks from the Orpheum Theater, and I said, what are you doing? He said, I have to shape up to get back into the union. Because I was, you know, I was put on leave, and he was putting. Putting the movie sign on the marquee, which were big red letters that you clipped in and on a ladder. And so they gave him the grunt work to do to be able to work himself back into being back on Broadway again. But he loved the theater, and his passion for it certainly was passed on to me.

[Sufi]

Did your mom still have family in Alabama, and was that a place you'd take trips back to?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Well, she did. My grandmother, Bertha Foster Price, lived in Alabama, and my mother basically abandoned us. I mean, you know, it's like. It's the truth of the matter.

[Sufi]

She.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

At one point in those four years when she brought us over, she dropped us with Bertha, and then she went back to Europe with my dad because we were. We were a lot as little boys, and she thought, you know, let me just put him with my mom. And so we were there for a few years in Cleveland, Ohio, with Grandma, which was an interesting experience all in itself because my grandmother played organ and piano in the Baptist church, and she would always get tight with the ministers, so she had an inside track to God and other things. So it was coming to Cleveland and going to church with Pentecostal Holy Rollers was like a movie every Sunday morning, you know, catching the spirit, speaking in tongues, you know, shaking and screaming for the Lord. It was something that shaped my childhood in a very different way from that moment forward.

[Pashi]

Did you have immediate, like, buy into that movie? Were you a fan of that movie, or did you and your brother fight it at all?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I was a fan of it. I don't think my brother was such a fan. I always felt a connection to another spirit or guiding force inside my heart and soul. So much so that, you know, when my mom abandoned us the second time.

[Sufi]

How old were you the first time? How old were you the first time around?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

The first time? I was four.

[Sufi]

Okay.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

You know, three or four.

[Sufi]

And your brother was how old?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

My brother was a year older, so he was 5. And that she left us there for about a year, a year and a half. She came back after a sudden illness that I had that she. My grandmother had written her and said, baby's in the hospital. She never got that letter. She got the letter that said, surgery went well, he survived, he lived, and he's back home. And my mother flew back. My grandmother cooked Southern cooking, and she knew that I loved to eat. I mean, I was born £13, so I had an affinity for food in the belly of my mom. And so she would cook cornbread and. And grits and all that heavy Southern food. And I had intercession of the bowels. And so after a couple of days, she noticed I didn't go to the bathroom. I wasn't pooping, and so she got concerned. And then a couple more days went. This is my grandmother, Bertha. A couple more days went by, and she was even more concerned. And then I started to turn colors, like a little blue. And then she was really concerned, and so she took me to the hospital. And they knew what was happening immediately. Well, first they said, and I'll never forget my mother telling me this. Oh, they told my grandmother, oh, he's gonna be fine. He just have a little gas, baby just got a little gas. He's all right. We gonna shake him up. We gonna pat him on the back. He gonna fart. It's all gonna come out. It's gonna be good, you know. And so a day and a half went by of that, and my grandmother saved my life. She walked into the hospital, she picked me up and swaddled me. She looked both ways down the hall. And she ran out of the hospital with me, took me to another hospital, where they took me into emergency surgery. Turns out later, the doctor. Isant never forget his name, who operated on me, had a glass eye. Thank God he didn't miss. And he opened me up, cleaned me out, and I was fine after that. And I think that kind of ended my mother and father's time in Europe. They thought, well, we should get back to the boys now. Abandonment number two, leaving. So this was.

[Pashi]

They found a way they found a.

[Sufi]

Way Found a way to abandon you.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Again they found a way the second time. We were just too much for my mom. I think it was after a road trip to the city with her. And we had a couple of very disastrous road trips. And so we lived in Westchester County. We were driving to the city, and we came to the city on this particular time, and my brother and I had got Christmas gifts of machine gun, water guns. So you got a machine gun, water gun that holds a whole lot of water.

[Sufi]

Yeah. You can't, as a parent. Don't let that go in the car.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Just. Seth, I'm going to tell you, don't do it. Don't do it, because. Take your finger off the trigger. No. My brother and I, you know, we had our time together, and we're shooting each other with water guns. And my mother's trying to drive, and she's being distracted, and she reaches back over the seat and she Grabs one of my water gun, and she literally cocks it and smacks it and breaks it over my head. I was absolutely destroyed. I don't think it was as much pain as it was my water gun will never be again. And. And so I kept thinking about those moments that determine things and change your life. And it was after that that she took us to Mount St. Joseph Military Academy and said, I need a break. She was working at Radio City now. I gotta understand this trajectory from opera diva to Radio City Music hall. Singing a solo alongside the Rockettes. There's a different world.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And she was providing for us. My mother and father were separating at that time, and she put us in military school. And I had to find. You know, I'm trying to think about my life here in the theater. It's a life of escapism. I'm thinking about my life in military school. Where did I go to the church. I became an altar boy. It's a life of. I need to figure this out, how to be. How to find some solace within the situation. And so I became an altar boy and then learned about the priests and how they operate in the world, the clerical world, backstage, which I learned about all too well.

[Sufi]

I. You. So how many years were you in military school?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I was there for three and a half years.

[Sufi]

Got it.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Marching, learning how to shoot, following orders, being. How do I say it? You know, being reformed in a way. You know, we had prefixes and we had priests, monks who taught us. And so, you know, we had to operate as a group. And when that didn't happen, we were disciplined. And that discipline was inclusive of standing at attention for hours, getting your hands whipped on palms with birch branches until they were basically about to bleed. All those things that teach you to stay in line, you know, So I learned a discipline. I also learned how to be a gentleman, table manners. Learned how to put corners on my bed. Learned how to be responsible. Learned how to show up. So all that is the good news of it. Learned how to be a gentleman. That's what it taught me.

[Sufi]

Did your brother get the same lessons from it? Was it as effective for him?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

It was. It was. He learned how to dominate me. So I think his lessons were even far greater than mine, you know, I mean, because he learned how to keep me in line as per his wishes, which was perfectly fine. He had. He needed to feel that power. And, you know, it's like having kids. And I think, you know, having children, you want to keep them safe. I'm not sure my brother's motive was to keep me completely safe. But I know for me and my children, why do you have to listen to me? And I think about the practical things. Don't cross that street because basically it gets squashed like a bug. So maybe you should listen to me so I can help protect you. But then after a while, they get it and they can start protecting themselves.

[Pashi]

Yeah. Now, three and a half years of military school implies that you either started halfway through a year or you jumped ship with a half a year to go. So did you come in halfway through it? A season?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I came in at the beginning of the season, and I jumped ship with half a year to go.

[Sufi]

Okay.

[Pashi]

How did that go over?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

There were circumstances behind that that were troubling. I was in the music department, so music was my place of solace. And being an altar boy was my place of solace as well. And I was in the music department with a young man named Carlos who decided that he wanted to play with some matches and play with fire while the window was open. He was consumed with it. And I was across the room, and he lit up a handkerchief on fire. And I'm like, what the hell are you doing? And then he, you know, when it got too hot for his hand, he threw it out the window. I said, what? What? What is happening right now? And so, of course, we were descended upon by staff and all that, and. And they accused us of. Well, they accused me until I expressed the truth of the story, Accused him of playing with fire and causing a hazard and trying to burn down the building. And of course, I stuck up for him. He wasn't trying to do that. He was just a little absorbed with the matches he had.

[Sufi]

He just loves the sweet dance of flame.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

That's right. He loves the sweet dance of flav. And so that was the end of my time there, really.

[Sufi]

That was it. That was expellable.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

You know, it really. I didn't get expelled. It was an interesting process. They were so angry and upset that they made me sleep in the same single bed with my brother. With his head one way and feet this way and my head one way and feed the other. And my mother came up, because, of course, they called her. And she was beside herself. She thought that was cruel and unjust punishment. And at that point in time, my brother's BO in the bed was way too much for me, and I wanted out. And so we moved on from there.

[Sufi]

Your brother, did he leave too?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

He left as well.

[Sufi]

I will say, if anybody got an unfair punishment here, don't take this the wrong way, it was your brother who was nowhere near a handkerchief on fire and then all of a sudden gets you in his bed.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I agree, I agree. I think I soured the water for him as well. You know, it's really funny, cause I've been back to Mount St. Joseph Military Academy in Newburgh, New York, and it's turned into a home, a nursing home for old nuns, for retired nuns. And I had to go back just to see this place that was so, so a very powerful part of my life and my upbringing. And in the end, after all of that happened there, I feel like it was a good thing for me. I really do. It changed my life for the better.

[Sufi]

I think a lot of people would assume, you know, maybe although you're in the music program, so maybe I'm leaning into an unfair stereotype that military school would maybe beat the arts out of you. But obviously you're brother and you leave and that's still your future. Like what you're born into. That family overrides three and a half years of military school.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Absolutely. You know, and I'm always surprised when I hear about well known artists who've been to military school. I've met a number of them. Al Roker went to the same military school I did. Joe Morton did 10 years earlier than me. Oh, wow. Francis Ford Coppola, who I just work with and was at the premier of megalopolis here in New York last night, went to New York Military Academy down the road from Mount St. Joseph Military Academy. So I'm always kind of, and I didn't know this until last night, that Francis had gone to military academy too. So many, many artists have gone to a military school. I've just started to talk about my experiences because that's what happened. And I'm writing a memoir and I have an editor I'm working with and he asked me about my childhood and I was like, oh wait, wait, I gotta do the Seth Meyers podcast. And I didn't even know we were set up to do this when I saw you last week.

[Sufi]

Yeah, I know. You said backstage, I know, it's so weird.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And then I went, oh, what am I gonna talk about? So my editor's like, did you have any fun times when you were a kid? Was it all doom and gloom? And I said, look at me, look how happy I am. But you know, cause the instinct sometimes is to make up something that's not. And although as a boy going through some of these traumatic experiences with my family, I Realized that that's what happened. And when I'm able to say what happened, I'm able to work through it in everyday fashion in a much more seamless and easier way. Yeah.

[Pashi]

And did you. So when your mother wasn't working, if she had time off, would you guys take any trips? Do you recall any, like, run of the mill vacations?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I do. We went to Bloomington, Indiana, and we went to a horse farm there, which was like the. I loved animals and I've always been intrigued with westerns when I was a boy and. But the road trips were arduous because after a while, when you're, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years old and you're hearing La Travia, how many times can you listen to La Boheme? How many times can you listen to. You know what I mean? How many times can you listen to Traviata?

[Sufi]

So that's. Not only they were opera people, but they made you listen to it all the time.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

It's in the car all the time. And it was like, oh, my God.

[Sufi]

I mean, I gotta be honest, there were probably horse farms closer than Bloomington, Indiana. It does seem like a weird.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I'm sure there were. But this horse farm was special because it had wild white horses. So, you know, so we get there and you're gonna go to a horse farm to ride some wild horses at like, 7 years old. Like, how does that work? You know, you tame the.

[Pashi]

Yeah, fair question.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

So. Yeah, it's a very good question.

[Sufi]

Well, you sounded like wild kids, so they probably thought this, you know, game. Recognized game.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yeah, that's right. Johnny. She'd call him Johnny. Johnny, these boys are too much. Johnny, you have to come over here. Johnny, it's too much. This is after they were. But they were together when we went to this horse farm. So they put me on one of these wild horses, which was actually fairly tame, but it didn't want me on its back. So. And we're in a corral going around and around, and I. I lost my seating and I lost my grip, and I was off that horse by the third or fourth time around. You know, it's funny, when a horse trots, you gotta, you know, use your inner thighs to keep yourself buckled down on that horse. They don't put a seatbelt on you, baby.

[Sufi]

Yeah, yeah.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

So I went off the horse and landed on the white fence and then landed on the ground. A bit of a disaster. The good news was I didn't break my back and I was okay, but I felt, you know, I felt like I ruined the vacation.

[Sufi]

Which is, you.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Know, which is how a kid would feel. You know, like I messed it all up. I'm still recovering.

[Sufi]

And now we're gonna take a quick break to hear from one of our sponsors. Support comes from Deleteme. Hey, Baji.

[Pashi]

Yeah, Sufi?

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

It hasn't happened to anyone I know specifically, but anyone you hear about it happening to says it's maybe the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

[Sufi]

I think it's a huge drag. Yeah. When someone takes your identity. Cause they almost never do something with your identity that you would like them to do. No one has ever, like, steals your identity and then go takes, like, tap lessons and then, you know, tap.

[Pashi]

That would be.

[Sufi]

Because they. Yeah. It'd be amazing.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

And you know what? But again, that's not what they're doing.

[Pashi]

No.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

Shame on them.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

I really feel like you almost deleted me from that whole ad.

[Sufi]

Yeah, I just kind of. You know, sometimes I'm just rolling posh and you're just. You know what? You know what? You are expendable. An anchor. You're. So your mom called your dad. Your dad was Giovanni. She called him Johnny. What did she call you? What was her. Did she shorten your name at all?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

No, she called me Giancarlo or Giancarlo. Because sometimes she didn't roll her R. Sometimes she did.

[Sufi]

Was there a difference?

[Pashi]

Were you in trouble with one and not the other.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Oh, Giancarlo. Then I was in trouble. If it was sung, I was in trouble. Oh, that's without a doubt. Yeah. It took me many years to pronounce my name properly, because I came to America and my name is Esposito. Right. You know, we had Tony and Phil, and everyone knew Esposito. And it wasn't for years that I realized that my name was Esposito when I went to Italy the first time. And then I went back with my father, but I was afraid to say it because I felt like, okay, I'm an actor, creative person. If I say Esposito, that sounds a little affected, and I don't want to be. I want to be real and not affected. And I realized I was just. I was skirting my true identity. And the pronunciation of my name is really the. As it should be Esposito. So I started saying it years ago. I had done Jay Leno, and I think I pronounced it my full name. Giancarlo Giuseppe Alessandro. And that's kind of music. So I pronounced it correctly, and I've been saying it correctly ever since. But switching code, switching when I need it. Like when I was. You know, when people would. Didn't. If I judge that they wouldn't understand me saying Esposito, I would say Esposito. Oh, Esposito. Or if I say Esposito, they go, oh, it's Esposito. No, no, it's Esposito. Now I insist. And recently, I was watching the Olympics and Manila Esposito, great gymnast from Italy. They. They won their first medals, and I was so very proud to be able to congratulate Esposito.

[Sufi]

Name.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Share the Esposito name. So I get a call from Anthony Anderson, and it's a message, a voice message. And it's interesting. People who just. They don't leave their voice message. They record one and send it to you. Hey, brother, where you at? Hey, man, look, have we been pronouncing your name? Wait, let me just explain. We're watching the Olympics, Me and my lovely watching the Olympics. And there's this girl. Manila. How do you say that? Manila. You know what I mean? Call me. I love Anthony Anderson. That was his message to me. So I called him immediately. Brother, we been pronouncing your name wrong. I said, yes, Anthony. My name is Giancadolo Esposito. Espo. That's it. That's what I was trying. Esposito. Man, I'm so sorry. When you and la. Let's have some dinner and let's talk about your origins. It was a wonderful. It was a wonderful call. It was a wonderful call to get. I'm very proud of who I have become in accepting who I am.

[Sufi]

That's just wonderful. Did you. Would you guys living in Westchester, would you drive in to see shows? Would your parents take you as kids to see Broadway?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yes. Yes. I saw hello Dolly that championship season when I was a kid because my father worked on those shows. I saw Pippin is where I first got to know Ben Vereen. I saw Hair. And then I started making my own trips in to do theater. I've done 13 Broadway musicals. So the trip in was always a bit of a navigation because there were always. Was the car going to start? Would I get to the theater on time? Is everything going to go smoothly? And then it turned into John Carlo. Would you drive? Because my brother and I would always argue about who's going to turn the car around. Like it was that simple. And we wanted to get in. And so we'd alternate. We'd come in 7 North Lawrence Avenue, facing down a hill that was a dead end. And we go down to the end of the street, turn the car around and park it and get ready for my mother to come out and take us to the theater. My brother did two shows. Maggie Flynn, Jack Cassidy, Shirley Jones, and. Which is where we both started, Stephanie Mills, Irene Escalera, Irene Cara, David Lindsay. We were nine years old now. Eight. Nine years old.

[Pashi]

Wow.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And so. And my brother did the Great White Hope with James Earl Jones, who I absolutely adored. I met him the first time then. And then did a play later on in my life called what Did I Do With Him? I did. Well, I'll get it in just a second because I'm still back in this story of Broadway. Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. I did with Jimmy later.

[Sufi]

Oh, goodness.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And then my brother dropped out and I kept going. And so there was always the driving thing. And I remember. And driving from Westchester at that time took, you know, it took an hour. Where now it's a little less time. The sawmill has been. Well, that's never been redone. But 287. This is right before 287 was really built all the way. Right. This is going back. And don't check me. Don't fact check me. I could be lying. Okay. So I remember my mother one day saying, I'm just. I don't want to drive. Will you drive. And I was so excited. I'm going to drive all the way to New York, to the theater. And we had to get off the highway at 125th street because it was backed up and I had to come down the streets. And so we had to go through Harlem and in Harlem, on Lenox Avenue and the major avenues, you can turn both ways to make a left or make a right. And I remember turning and I turned and my rear end hit another car that was turning the other way. And we were on the car. My rear left door was on the car's rear white fender. And I was 13 years old. And my mother just turned and looked at me and it was one of those looks like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do now? And I looked at her.

[Sufi]

You were driving.

[Pashi]

You were 13 years old.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She let me drive all the way to the city.

[Pashi]

Okay, okay, yeah, go ahead.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, she trusted me. I'm a good driver. I was a good driver then.

[Sufi]

Sure.

[Pashi]

You sound like you're great.

[Sufi]

Tell it to the police. Tell it to the police.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Well, yeah, that was what was going through my head when I'm on this car. I put it in reverse, I hit the gas, backed up, backed off of him, made a wider turn and kept on going. Baby.

[Sufi]

Wow.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And got myself to the theater on time, a little bit shaken, a little nervous, shook it off, felt badly guilt. I'm a Catholic, former altar boy, you know what I mean? I'm like, I was gonna become a priest and that ended my priesthood days or my thoughts of being a priest because I. I did something really horrible. But I had to because I'd never get a license. And worse than that, I would be late for call time. And you can't be late. The show must go on. And I'd be docked money. When you're late back then, they docked you if you're. You can't be late. And now I get to the theater for a 7:00 show. I get there at 4:30 in the afternoon. It changed my idea of being on time and the responsibility it takes to be in the theater. But I started my journey from that age. I did 13 Broadway musicals one after the other, and it just has been a thrilling ride. I love the theater and it's something I'll return to very soon.

[Sufi]

Were your parents delighted and proud by the fact that you sort of found your way to the theater and the world that they had first met in?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yes. My mother was dedicated to training my voice. So I did musicals to begin with, and so it was great to have her guidance in the vocality of how to be able to sustain eight shows a week. And that was something that took timing and energy, and you had to meter yourself out so you didn't blow your voice on a matinee and not have the voice for the evening performance. So my mother was very, very proud that I moved into musical comedy. My father was proud as well. His story is a little different about how he viewed my progress because he lived on 46th street in Manhattan in the theater district. And he could go to any show for free because he could walk right in. And there's something called second acting, which is, you know, if you don't have a lot of money. He happened to know everybody, so he would just walk in at the second act. After intermission, everyone's on the sidewalk. He just walked back in with them. And you just find an empty seat where you stand at the back. Yeah. A little cute. A little clue there in case you want to see a second act of a show and you haven't able to get tickets for the first act. People leave, people don't stay. People get sick. People haven't shown up. So he would second act the shows, and I wouldn't even know he was there until the stagehands who really liked me because I love the backstage rhythm of what happens now. I come up in a time where you would wench a whole setting on from the wings. Whole living room set would be on a platform, be on rollers, and they would wench it. And so these very big men would winch this thing right out. And all those guys really liked me because I was interested in what they did. Like, it wasn't just grunt work. They allowed and helped facilitate all this happening. And so they would tell me, your father was here. I was like, what? He didn't stop and say hello. He didn't come back afterwards. And he would attribute my success to my mother's training. He'd be very deferential to her and say, she did it all. But I took that as him being proud of me.

[Sufi]

That's really nice. Both of our parents think they did it all. They both won. They both won full credit.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And you gotta give them credit because had I not been exposed to their lives, I wouldn't have been inspired to have my life.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And I think for me, it was a great inspiration, but I finally wanted my real life. And I looked around and saw the time and tide of the 60s and how black Folks were the entertainment. And I realized that although it took a lot of talent to do what I did, that I wanted to further my talents. And I made a very, very strong decision, and that was to learn how to act. You know, the singing came naturally. I learned how to dance. Michael Bennett taught me how to dance in a show called Two for the Seesaw. He was the second director to come in. He and Grover Dale, Anita Morris, they taught me how to dance for that show. So movement and singing felt like second nature to me. But acting was a new. Something new to learn. And I decided to become a dramatic actor. And the reason was because I wanted a world that deepened my craft outside of just Broadway, outside of just New York. And I felt a calling to it. And so I started to take acting lessons in earnest. And I seeked to do a straight dramatic production. And when I did my first dramatic production of a play at the Negro Ensemble Company under the direction of Douglas Turner Ward, Zoo man and the Sign, it changed my life. I put my head down. I learned this character, Marialis was in it. Carl Gordon was in it. And it was written by Charles Fuller, who was a Pulitzer print Prize winner for A Soldier Story. And I put my head down. And after opening night, I was plastered in the theater section of the New York Times and the New York Post and the Daily News with a great stellar reviews for my performance and the play. And I eventually went on to win the Obie Award in the theater World Award. And that solidified my. My confidence that I could be a dramatic actor and that I could affect people on a deeper level than just being what I prescribe to as being the entertainment, the laugh, the fun, the dance. But I could then really move people from one place to another in their emotions. And that was the beginning of my interest and in film and in television and in straight drama.

[Sufi]

That's fantastic. Before I forget, did you ever. Did you ever go back to Europe? You mentioned going with your dad. Did you ever go back with your mom? Was that ever something she wanted to do later in life?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

You know, I felt like she had that desire, but she sadly never got over her not making it as a diva soprano. And I think, you know, what happened for her was if I can't be the best, I won't be at all. And so that's a different kind of love and adoration that you need to continue. You know, there was a time in my career, Seth, where I went, all right. You know, I think it was after Carbon Copy between me and Denzel Washington and I didn't. And George Siegel star. And I didn't get that movie. Like, I. Well, it may have been between me and Denzel and five other actors, but as far as I was concerned, it was between me and Dean.

[Sufi]

Yeah. And you were number two. You were the second choice for sure. Yeah.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And I didn't get that. And I went, okay, what does this do to you? Like, that was my moment to, like, be a star. And I knew I could do that role. And they told me I was a little too young and Denzel had a little more depth and he was a little older, a little more experienced. Okay, great. And so I asked myself, will you stay in this if stardom and celebrity is never part of the equation? And I knew I would. I knew it didn't matter. I knew if I had to do regional theater or Broadway for the rest of my life, I would do it because I loved it. And it wasn't about the fame, fortune, or stardom. So once I gave up the idea of any of that, then I started to realize, oh, what the small rises and steps to stardom was. I've had all these different rises to stardom, and now I kind of giggle and laugh because now I'm a lifer. Like, I'm in it, whatever. And now the material is what really moves me more than anything. And the process. And I think it's part of that little boy's journey to exercise all the demons that he accepted as true from people who said, your life's going to be like this or like that or the other. And it's the understanding that I have a choice in what I choose. And if I choose quality and I choose the dedication to bringing something, doing something real for a purpose, for a reason, then I'll be fulfilled.

[Sufi]

I want to ask about a location you worked for a long time because it's where my family takes a trip every year. My wife is from about a half hour north of Albuquerque. Did you enjoy your time in New Mexico? I know it stretched over many years.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

It did. You know, I enjoyed my time in New Mexico greatly. It was interesting to be in a cast of folks who came in during the week and went back to LA on the weekend. And I came in for Breaking Bad and I would do five, six day stretches and leave, stay in a hotel. They'd put my episodes together and there was something about the city I immediately fell in love with. It felt easier. It felt at a different pace. It felt real. It felt like ordinary people to me than how I felt in New York. Chicago or la. And so I did that for a number of years and then went back for Better Call Saul and quickly realized that I didn't really want to just stay in hotels. That would be way too much. So I bought a little cottage that I could be in and didn't know why I bought it. I bought it and I walked in with my youngest daughter, who's now 20, took a selfie at the door, which I'll never forget, and sent furniture and furnished it with some mid century modern furniture and never was there again for one whole year.

[Sufi]

Wow.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And I thought, because my girl said, papa, don't you want a home of your own? When you come to our house, you sleep in my bed or my sister's bed or you sleep in the basement and you're always on the road. Don't you want a home of your own? So I finally did it. So after that year went by, I went, why did I buy this house? They're just so stupid. I'm a nomad, you know, I don't need it. And then pandemic hit and I went, now I understand. And so that taught me to be alone. I didn't know how to be alone. All my kids called my dear manager, Josh, and said, he's, he's going to, he's not going to make it. It's not going to be Covid that he gets. He ain't going to make it. The guy just can't be alone. And I planted a garden, grew a beard, read a book, cultivated a podcast, cultivated two different projects that I finally got to the screen. My own show, Parish RAMC worked on that, did the broken and the bad wraparounds with one of my daughters, but largely learned how to be within myself.

[Sufi]

Well, I'm just happy to know you have a place because when my we stay with my in laws and when they start driving me crazy, I'm going to call you and say, did you leave the keys under the mat?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I can hook you up. I can hook you up because I have a beautiful place that feels like not only home, but it feels like solitude. Where are your people from?

[Sufi]

An hour north, because I go there at Placidus. Placidus is a little town between Santa Fe and Albuquerque.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Yes, it's a little small town.

[Sufi]

Small, little, small, little town. Yeah.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Not much is there.

[Sufi]

Not much is there. I would say when I'm there for a week, we go to the science museum, like four days. I just have to get my kids. So, you know, but it's good. Obviously. That's the thing about Albuquerque that's amazing is if you, again, if you live in New York, if you live in la, Chicago, like you mentioned, like, you go to the Albuquerque Zoo, which is a great zoo, you just, like, park at the door. Like there's. It's just amazing how convenient it is to be in one of those, like, sort of middle level cities.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Well, I have to tell you, the Explorer Museum in Albuquerque is one of my favorites.

[Sufi]

The best. Love it.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

It's the best. I still have a video of my third child, who's now 23, when she was nine, making that little film with the blocks at the Explorer Museum. It's a very, very, very special place, and Albuquerque has become that for me. It feels quiet and reserved and lovely.

[Pashi]

So did you spend most of the pandemic out there?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I sure did. I sure did. I grew tomatoes and lavender. I grew string beans, artichokes, squash. I had a most incredible garden, and it was fun to be there during that time. Look for me. I made a phone call. Pandemic hit. I made a phone call. I called the accountant. I said, okay, I'm a divorced father of four and taking care of everything. You know, four cars, girls in college, all of that. How long can I last? He said, you know, it's like calling the doctor. You got about a year maybe. If you're frugal, you got a year. And so I went, okay.

[Sufi]

He's like, make your own squash. Can you grow your own squash?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

That's right. And then he said, you have to sell it, too.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

And I started to think about Edison and Henry Ford, like, you know, great men who went bankrupt more than once. And I had already been bankrupt once and one and a half times. Yeah, you know, how does that half work? I know James got to ask that question. What about that half? Yeah. And I realized I had to go to work. Like, this is the time for me to work. You can rest, get to know yourself, but it's time to develop. I developed a show called Parish for amc. I developed the idea of writing this memoir, which I'm deep into now. I developed the idea for a podcast and did two installments of it to get some attention and have some folks who'd like to do it. As you guys know, it's time consuming, thought provoking. You have to give a lot of attention to it. And I, all of a sudden, has been working like a madman again. But all of these things that I did during that pandemic are paying off for me now. One of the Things is to change my attitude and have my attitude be of one of success and know that the time I put in now is going to display and show itself tomorrow.

[Sufi]

Oh, fantastic. This has been just a terrific conversation. No surprise. It's always such a delight to see you and talk to you. But before you go, Josh is now going to ask you the questions we ask all of our guests.

[Pashi]

All right, some quick questions here. You can only pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Adventurous.

[Sufi]

Yeah. Very good.

[Pashi]

What is your favorite means of transportation? Train, plane, automobile, boat, bike, walking, et cetera.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Motorcycle.

[Sufi]

Whoa, look at this guy.

[Pashi]

I don't know if we've gotten a motorcycle yet.

[Sufi]

The Esposito comes out.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

There you go, baby. Ducati all the way, baby.

[Pashi]

If you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, other than your own family, who would you like to take a family vacation with?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Bryan Cranston's family.

[Sufi]

All right.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Excellent.

[Pashi]

All right. If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

My youngest daughter, Ruby.

[Sufi]

Okay, great. The youngest man. They're the only one you can give. Where everybody's like, all right, fine.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Well, she's Hope for the Future. The others are too far gone.

[Sufi]

Yeah. Okay, good.

[Pashi]

Your hometown would be Westchester, New York, I'm guessing.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

That's correct. Elmsford, New York.

[Pashi]

Elmsford. Would you recommend Elmsford as a vacation destination?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Absolutely. Go to King Pizza and do nothing.

[Sufi]

Okay. It's a short vacation.

[Pashi]

Or you could be there as long as you want. I mean, that sounds very restful. And Seth has our final questions.

[Sufi]

Have you been to the Grand Canyon?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I have not.

[Sufi]

Do you want to go?

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Desperately.

[Sufi]

Okay, well. Feel like you kind of blew it all those years you were in New Mexico. I feel like that's what you're saying.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I know. I went to Sedona and my eldest daughter went to the Grand Canyon. Told me all about it. I'm so jealous. Well, you know what? I'm going to amend my answer. I have been. I flew over it in a plane, and, boy, did I see it.

[Sufi]

Get out of here.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Too bad. Okay, I tried. I really tried.

[Sufi]

Wait, this. This was the best. Thank you so much. I can't wait to see Megalopolis and just hope to see you in person soon.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

I hope so, too. And look out for Captain America 4 Brave New World. I play a character you've never seen me play before.

[Sufi]

Welcome to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Thank you so much for that.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

You have been lovely, both of you. This has been a great experience. All my anxiety melted away in the first three minutes. And I just adore both of you. Thank you.

[Pashi]

Thank you so much.

[Sufi]

Thank you. All right, we'll talk to you soon. Thanks.

[Pashi]

Have a great one. Bye, now.

[Giancarlo Esposito]

Bye. Junkaro would ride in the backseat with his brother and would play with aquatic machine guns till his mom said, I can't have this shit going on, and sent them to military school. Giancarlo drove to the city when he was a boy of 13, and after an accident in the Bronx, promptly he fled the scene. John Calro went to ride some wild white horses. He fell off and over a fence. Horses weren't really that wild, but he still fell off and over that fence.