MATT & TOM BERNINGER on Growing Up in Cincinnati, The National’s Brotherly Tensions, and the Documentary Mistaken for Strangers

Summary

Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers — Episode Summary

Episode: MATT & TOM BERNINGER on Growing Up in Cincinnati, The National’s Brotherly Tensions, and the Documentary Mistaken for Strangers
Date: August 26, 2025
Hosts: Seth Meyers & Josh Meyers
Guests: Matt Berninger (Lead singer, The National) & Tom Berninger (Filmmaker, Director of Mistaken for Strangers)

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers features Matt and Tom Berninger, known for their close but comically different brotherhood—and, as Matt points out, for being part of one of the most “brother-forward” bands around, The National. The conversation weaves from hilarious childhood memories in suburban Cincinnati to reflections on family dynamics, brotherly creative tensions, and the making of the cult-favorite documentary Mistaken for Strangers. There’s also plenty of banter about parents, family trips gone awry, and the unique experience of being the youngest sibling by nearly a decade.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The National’s Unique “Brother” DNA

(10:18–11:52)

• The National contains not just Matt and Tom, but also two other sets of brothers. This, Matt explains, creates a “diplomacy” that mellows out tensions, unlike famously combative bands like Oasis.
  • Matt: "Our groups of brothers in the National...all kind of balance each other out...maybe there’s a little bit of diplomacy that happens with us that maybe doesn’t happen in Oasis." (10:51)

2. Making ‘Mistaken for Strangers’: Documentary as Brotherly Therapy

(12:00–16:22)

• Tom joined the band on tour, intending just to make fun short clips. Gradually, the project became centered on Tom—and their relationship.
• The real breakthrough came thanks to feedback from Matt’s wife, Corinne, who insisted the real story was their dynamic, not silly stunts.
  • Matt: "Corinne...she just said, ‘these aren’t funny enough’...the stuff that was more actual tensions...that was the stuff." (14:25)
  • Editing help from comedy legend Greg Daniels gets a shoutout. (16:53)

3. A Nine Year Age Gap: Sibling Memories and Missed Connections

(17:33–19:53)

• Tom is 9 years younger—so Matt recalls Tom as “the funniest, the sweetest,” growing up entertaining everyone, with an adorable story of being taken to see Terminator 2 and frightening himself with RoboCop way too young.
  • Tom: “I watched [RoboCop]...I was seven years old and that’s too early!” (19:53)

4. Growing Up in Cincinnati: Suburbs, Farms, and (Mis)Adventures

(22:18–30:23)

• Their West Side Cincinnati childhood mixed the suburbs and their uncle’s farm—holidays spent cutting Christmas trees, sweltering summer pruning thorns, and yes, toting rifles down train tracks.
• Hilariously dangerous stories abound: firing guns at raccoons, blowdarting squirrels, and shooting a skunk in the garden, triggering a neighborhood stink.
  • Matt: “He throws on the lights and he starts blowing away and all the corn is falling. He’s shooting down all the corn and it was a skunk and he hit a skunk and it just exploded the neighborhood.” (28:33)

5. Trips: Boundary Waters, Canada, and Gatlinburg Memories

(42:44–47:52)

• Family canoe trips in Minnesota’s Boundary Waters—most remembered for endless rain, leech-infested lakes, and make-do camping toilets. Also, annual adventures to kitschy Gatlinburg, Tennessee—more for miniature golf and haunted houses than wilderness.
  • Tom: “I mainly remember all, like, the miniature golf, like, the jungle golf and hillbilly golf and in the haunted houses.” (46:44)
• Story of losing at mini-golf and having to “boof a gorilla” statue with three suggestive thrusts, at their mom’s raucous urging.
  • Matt: “Mom said, no you have to do three thrusts.” (47:28)

6. The Berninger Sense of Humor (and Mom’s Legendary Farting Incident)

(47:55–50:06)

• Their mother’s hilariously dirty sense of humor is legendary—described by Matt as a Christmas dinner troublemaker, and immortalized in Tom’s favorite memory: her peeing her pants from laughter during Ace Ventura at the movies.
  • Tom: “She was laughing...so hard that she kept farting and peeing in her pants...I had to get...a popcorn thing so she can cover herself.” (49:59)

7. Old-School Cincinnati Vibes & Family Dynamics

(65:56–67:28)

• The family had deep roots in Cincinnati—longtime family gatherings, cousins galore, and stories of the city’s revitalization and Midwest architectural charm.
  • Tom: “It’s a Midwest city...they didn’t tear any buildings down. So it’s a really old city that they’ve kind of revitalized, and it’s got some beautiful architecture.” (70:15)

8. Music Tastes: Sibling Rivalry by Stereo

(57:18–62:45)

• Despite being in a musical family, Matt and Tom didn’t (at first) share musical tastes. Matt gravitated toward alt-rock (The Smiths, R.E.M., Violent Femmes) while Tom rebelled with heavy metal, proudly becoming a Judas Priest and Cannibal Corpse aficionado.
  • Tom: “I, I kind of got into that radio metal...I want to be an expert on what I thought was, like, dumb music.” (58:52)
  • Matt: “When I listen to metal now, I hear it differently. It’s not macho at all...it’s showing all the fear and anxiety...the beauty and emotional catharsis that metal is.” (63:39)

9. Family Speed Round

(69:01–71:12)

• Most-anticipated vacation style? “Relaxing” (both brothers).
• Family they’d vacation with: Tom picks The Muppets, Matt goes with The Royal Tenenbaums.
• Who to be stranded with on a desert island? Matt says Tom, Tom chooses sister Rachel (to avoid the fight).
• Would they recommend Cincinnati? Yes—up-and-coming, historic, great for visitors.

10. The Grand Canyon Story

(71:13–72:22)

• Matt recalls a childhood family road trip west—where the overwhelming memory is seeing a crash scene with a dead trucker, rendering the Grand Canyon itself a background detail.
  • Matt: “He wakes us up and he said, guys, get up, kids, There’s a dead guy...that was on our way to the Grand Canyon...I barely remember the Grand Canyon at all.” (72:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Documentary Feedback:
  • Matt (on Corinne): “She just said, ‘these aren’t funny enough’...she was very, very involved in being brutally honest about every little bit. She’s like, ‘I’m bored here.’” (14:25, 16:04)
• On Guns in Childhood:
  • Matt: “We would go to the gun and knife shows...my cousins had an M16. We were shooting M16s on the farm.” (25:24)
• On Sibling Dynamics:
  • Tom: “I just realized...the family unit was already created between my brother and my sister. And then there was some joke...like, then Tom came along...I had no idea.” (37:15)
• On Mom’s Humor:
  • Matt: “She’s really gross and she’s really, really...anything sexual, just like, she can’t let it go. Just laughs about it so much.” (48:00)
• On Theme Park Losers:
  • Matt: “Mom said, no you have to do three thrusts.” (47:28)
• On Metal Music’s Emotional Depth:
  • Matt: “It’s not macho at all. It’s the opposite. It’s kind of showing all the fear and anxiety and...made me kind of appreciate the beauty and emotional catharsis that metal is.” (63:39)
• On the Grand Canyon:
  • Matt: “Even, like, the majesty of the Grand Canyon cannot compete with the dead guy in the truck.” (72:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Banter (family trips & whale watching): 00:00–09:15
• Meet the Berninger Brothers & Band Brotherhood: 10:05–11:52
• Mistaken for Strangers Origins: 12:00–16:22
• Childhood Age Gap & Sibling Stories: 17:33–22:12
• Growing Up in Cincinnati/Farm Life: 22:18–30:23
• Family Adventures & Danger (guns, animal patrol): 24:23–30:23
• Boundary Waters & Gatlinburg Trips: 42:44–47:52
• Mom’s Legendary Humor & Ace Ventura Story: 47:55–50:06
• Music Tastes & Creative Rebellion: 57:18–62:45
• Speed Round: 69:01–71:12
• Grand Canyon & Dead Guy Story: 71:13–72:22

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Tone & Atmosphere

The vibe is a comedic blend of sincerity and nostalgia, full of affectionate ribbing, vivid storytelling, and warmth. The Berninger brothers’ dynamic mixes older-sibling exuberance and kid-brother irreverence, with the Meyers adding their trademark sibling chemistry throughout.

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Whether you're a National fan, a lover of brotherly stories, or just craving a trip down memory lane, this episode is a heartfelt and hilarious ride through family, music, and the kinds of journeys—literal and metaphorical—that leave lasting marks.

Transcript

[Seth]

Hey, buddy.

[Josh]

Hey.

[Seth]

How are you?

[Josh]

I'm good. How are you?

[Seth]

Good. You know my father in law, Tom.

[Josh]

I sure do.

[Seth]

Just guys on top of everything.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

He. I realize he's just been a gift to me in that everything I found boring that he said is fascinating to my kids.

[Josh]

Oh, yeah. It skips a generation.

[Seth]

It skips a generation. He's the kind of guy, he'll say like, hey, you know what kind of rock that is? And I'm like, not only do I not know, if I did, I would not want to talk about it. And yet my kids are just like, they love it. He's pointing at rocks. It's like they're a magic show based in nature. It's the best. Yeah.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

But there is this thing he does and my wife does, which is if they get word, you know, that like somebody saw a whale, you know, off the coast.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

They'll say we should go try to see the whale. Yeah. Which is just shocking to me because they move. Right. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, you know, it's like if somebody said like, look, whale, like, I'm not a jerk, I'll turn around and look.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

But you know, if we're talking about where, hey, where in the ocean was the whale, it feels to me like the moment's already lost.

[Josh]

Yeah. Did they find a whale?

[Seth]

No.

[Josh]

Did they go out and find a way?

[Seth]

No.

[Josh]

I was. Last time I was out there in Martha's Vineyard with you, we went, we did go looking for a whale and we did not find it. Like they were just like reports.

[Seth]

Yeah. Reports of whales. Was that the time where mom was like, we need to get mom home. Because she was not. No, she did not look whale. She looked unwell.

[Josh]

Maybe it was. But we did come upon like a super pod of dolphins.

[Seth]

That was amazing.

[Josh]

It was amazing.

[Seth]

Unbelievable.

[Josh]

Then Ash, Ash had sort of been promised whale and he was like, he's also. Where's the whale?

[Seth]

100 dolphins.

[Josh]

And he's like, it was more dolphins.

[Seth]

It was so beautiful. And I'd like to just say, you know, that was a case where, you know, it's like a, you know, a watched teapot never boils, you know. Yeah.

[Josh]

I don't know if I talked about. Did I tell you that I went on a whale watch recently here out of the port. Port of Long beach when Scott Rollins, my father in law, was in town. We were going to go to the Huntington Gardens one day and then Mackenzie just sort of like threw out there as another possibility. Like or we could go on this whale watch. And I was like, whale watch? Like, I just don't even think of it as a thing that you do out here. And we drove down to San Pedro and the port of Long beach, which is fascinating just in terms of its scope and scale. And then we get on this boat and we sort of cruise down the coast, and sure enough, like, about an hour and 15 minutes into it, we see a humpback whale. We saw its tail come out a couple times. It was. It was a lovely afternoon.

[Seth]

All right, so hour 15 there, that means an hour and 15 back. That's, like, a pretty long day on the boat. Was it a comfortable boat?

[Josh]

It was.

[Seth]

That's good.

[Josh]

And I will say, like, you know, this. I call him a kid just because he's younger than me. He's probably, like, mid-20s, maybe late 20s. But he works at the. Why can't I think of the word. The aquarium down there. And he was sort of the voice on the mic for most of the.

[Tom]

The.

[Josh]

The trip and was giving, you know, some information about, you know, there are these islands that are sort of essentially oil rigs that they've built islands to make them not look like oil rigs because they're just off the coast. Just, like, had a lot of information. And he was so good at keeping things positive and sort of good information. Just about, like, the seabirds and, you know, different things about whales and preservation and really, I thought, did an excellent job. And I think it's a tough job, especially when you're going out and you might not see a whale. Yeah, he. He really kept the atmosphere light. And then when we see a whale, it's super exciting.

[Seth]

I feel like. Didn't we go whale watching in Scotland and went over whales?

[Josh]

Yeah, I think we went. It was more dolphins. We were, like, on a lock.

[Seth]

So either way, we saw a whale in there.

[Josh]

It was going to be. Yeah, I mean, we were maybe gonna see. I don't know if it was Loch Ness.

[Seth]

No, that was different. We went. And then we definitely. We saw it twice.

[Josh]

I remember we saw Nessie twice.

[Seth]

A, like, big old. Big old long neck once. And then the second time really close. Because, remember, it held up. I remember this. I don't remember where it held up. One of the fins to its mouth and went. And we. Based on.

[Josh]

We knew. Yeah, we do. And then everyone. Everyone put their cameras and their phones down.

[Seth]

Yeah. Because. Well, that was. It did like, sort of like a. No, no, no. It did, like, can be Mutombo. Finger.

[Josh]

Finger. Wag.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Josh]

So we all put our cameras down. That was.

[Seth]

It's interesting, though. Doesn't have a Scottish accent. A lot of people wonder.

[Josh]

Oh, yeah.

[Seth]

Nessie does not. Nessie is like very. Whatever a sea creature sounds like, but it's not.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Hey, I went to a show this weekend.

[Seth]

What'd you see?

[Josh]

I saw Rufus do soul.

[Seth]

Great. This is a reminder how much cooler you are than me.

[Josh]

Edm. Do you know what EDM stands for?

[Seth]

Erectile dysfunction medicine. Yes. Okay. Sponsored by Seattle.

[Josh]

Electronic dance music it was at the Rose Bowl.

[Seth]

Okay.

[Josh]

And of hard to get to, but, you know, Mackenzie had. Was teaching at a horse show up in Santa Barbara. And I was like, if we can't make it, like, we can sell these tickets. She's like, no, I want to go to the show. So she came straight from Santa Barbara and 57,000 people.

[Seth]

Wow.

[Josh]

Is the. Is the number. And this show was great and it was so fun. And we got great seats on the. On the floor. Like a year ago, I bought tickets a year ago. And when I bought them and put it in the calendar, MacKenzie and I have a shared calendar. And it sort of pinged on her phone, and she's like, what? Like, how are you? Why'd you buy tickets for this now? And I was like, because this is when they went on sale. And I was so glad that I did.

[Seth]

So my question to you is like, where do you think your age wise you were of the people down on the floor?

[Josh]

I was, you know, definitely older than most, but there were people that were older than me. There was also, like, there was a dad right in front of us with his, like, 1112 year old kid. That was great. And everybody also.

[Seth]

I'm. I'm. I've noticed this recently. Like, I don't think people think you look your age because the other day somebody asked me, how's your brother? And I was like, he's great. Um, and then I was talking about, you know, at some point, I was like, no, it's. He's the best. He's like a 49 year old newlywed. And they were like, Josh is 49? I was like, yeah, well, I mean, I'm 51. And they were like, yeah. I was like, oh, yeah? Yeah. They're like, oh, no, that's fine. I don't know what. I guess, like, certainly, yeah, anywhere from 51 to 59, but like posh 49.

[Tom]

But yeah.

[Josh]

So they were, you know, there were people older than me, people younger than me. I also. I wore because Mackenzie Was coming after me. I wore that orange jacket that I was wearing in Amsterdam.

[Seth]

That's sort of insane to be, like, recognized.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Seth]

And she found you.

[Josh]

I'm. Yeah, I was like, I'm going to be in the middle, you know, a little bit back from the stage where it's going to be. There's going to be a little more room, and I'm going to wear this jacket. And, you know, I was probably there two hours before her. I saw the opener, and people kept sort of standing near me and then, like, calling people and be like, I'm standing next to the guy in the orange jacket.

[Seth]

Oh, so you were a beacon for other people as well.

[Josh]

I was a beacon for a lot of people. That's wonderful. And this one dude. This one dude was like, oh, man, I'm gonna stand next to you all night. And I was like, all right. And he was like, you couldn't bring. If you bought, like, a can of beer or seltzer or water.

[Tom]

Bottle of water.

[Josh]

You had to pour it in a plastic cup if you were where we were. So this guy had this big plastic cup, and he's like, oh, awesome. I'm going to stand next to you. Do you want some seltzer? And he just held this big plastic cup. I was like, no, I'm good. He's like, do you want any drugs? And I was like, I'm good. He's like, all right. Cool, man. But it was that kind of friendly.

[Seth]

It would be really funny if the minute someone was like, I'm next to guy in the orange jacket, you just bolted. Oh, yeah. Just like classic. Go looking for whales the next day. Yeah. All right, so I have my question. Answer this. Both for the whale watching boat and the concert, did you have a cocktail?

[Josh]

Yeah, I had a cocktail at the. At the concert, and I had a beer on the boat, I think A beer. A couple beers on the boat. A couple Pacificos, which have that, like.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Sort of nautical label.

[Seth]

Yep. Tastes like. Tastes. It's good, see? Good. See? Brew.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

Yeah. Wonderful. We got a couple of brothers.

[Josh]

Yeah, we sure do.

[Seth]

Berniger brothers.

[Josh]

Matt, lead singer of the National, A band that also has two more sets of brothers in it.

[Seth]

Nuts.

[Josh]

And Tom, his. His younger brother, who you'll hear, has, you know, made a documentary about being on the road with the band and. Yeah, just like talking to brothers. There's something about it. I don't know what it is.

[Seth]

Good dudes. All right, buddy. Well, enjoy this. Enjoy a little music before we get into a couple of guys in the music biz.

[Narrator]

Family chips. Family chips with the mindless brothers.

[Seth]

Here.

[Matt]

Go.

[Seth]

Whoa, whoa.

[Josh]

Hey.

[Tom]

Hi, Josh.

[Josh]

What's happening?

[Tom]

Hi, guys?

[Josh]

How are you, fellas?

[Tom]

Good, good.

[Seth]

It's very exciting to have you on because I think the national is one of the most brother forward bands we have working today.

[Tom]

Yeah, us and Oasis, top to.

[Seth]

Yeah, that's true. You and Oasis and.

[Josh]

But Oasis is back. For how long does anyone actually think they're going to be back for?

[Matt]

That's a good question. I hope for a while.

[Josh]

I hope so, too, but, I mean, it's.

[Matt]

I didn't get tickets, so I hope I can see.

[Josh]

Yeah, exactly. Same from a.

[Seth]

From a wide shot. It does seem like you guys have handled brotherhood maybe a little bit better.

[Matt]

Maybe.

[Josh]

Maybe, Yeah.

[Matt]

I mean.

[Tom]

Yeah, no, no, we got ours.

[Matt]

Our. Our groups of brothers in. In the national are sort of. They all kind of balance each other out. You know, there's, you know, there are brotherly tensions, but then the fact that there's like another set of brotherly tensions, and then Tom and I, you know, we all kind of get it. So maybe there's a little bit of diplomacy that happens with us that maybe doesn't happen in Oasis.

[Seth]

Yeah, you can't have that moment where you sort of turn to the rest of your band and say, you guys don't understand.

[Tom]

Right.

[Seth]

This is brother stuff.

[Matt]

That is true.

[Tom]

That's true.

[Matt]

I mean, honestly, when Tom came on tour and made a documentary, you know, it wasn't intended to be a thing about, you know, necessarily Tom or anything, but that was so clearly the most interesting part of everything is all the brothers and all the perspectives like that, and that's how that story kind of zeroed in on that.

[Seth]

So. All right. So I just want to get it. So, Tom, you directed the documentary of the band, but you were just. The plan was that you were just going to travel with the band, correct?

[Tom]

Yeah, I mean, well, I was in New York and I was paying at a bunch of movies and I, you know, I had a choice to figure out what I want to do in the film industry or leave. And I got really freaked out. My brother's like, just come on tour with us. You can shoot, like, tour, like a tour diary, like, every day. Just show, you know, and throw it up on YouTube or just small, little snippets, little short films about the band. And I thought that was great. And that's. Yeah, that's how I initially kind of started just filming everything and my let's. And it was my first Time to Europe was first. It was my first time really traveling the world and going to all these, like, even small places in. In the United States. And I just. Was. Had a camera and just ran around by myself sometimes with Matt and we. Yeah, and that was initially it. And. And I wasn't my idea to put myself in the movie for a very, very long time.

[Seth]

When did you realize that it was going to be more than just sort of snippets you'd put online when you realize, oh, this is going to be a full documentary?

[Tom]

Well, you know, I guess halfway through, I started doing these little short films, like, 30 second to a minute long, little goofy, really goofy shorts about all the band members. And my brother kind of really liked that and kind of helped me out on that and. And it made us laugh. I think you can still find them on the Nationals website somewhere. I look back, I'm like, those were. Those were interesting. That's a learn. It was a learning. It was a learning process. But I think it came to my brother that it was more about me.

[Matt]

Those. Corinne. I mean, my.

[Tom]

Sure, yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Matt]

My wife saw those. And, you know, and we were, you know, at the time, you know, we kind of were. Where we were goofing around and we were faking a lot of ridiculous stuff. I can't remember. You know, Tom had me climbing trees and hopping over, you know, barriers and just, you know, I mean, just stupid. Stupid almost, you know, Three Stooges kind of. Kind of goofball stuff. And we were just having fun. Tom and I were just, you know, going around all these cities and.

[Seth]

Just.

[Matt]

Hanging out, being silly and. And we thought that would be kind of just fun, content, you know, And. And my wife looked at him, my wife, Corinne, and. And she's like, you. It's not these. She's. She just said, this is. These aren't funny enough. She's like, yeah. And she was like. But then. But then all the other stuff of. Of us arguing over, like, what to do and. And she's like, that stuff, you know, the stuff that we're. That was like, the stuff that was kind of more actual tensions where she's like. She's like, if you're gonna make. You know, she kind of was saying, like, I don't think you guys should do this at all at first, and. But then.

[Tom]

Which I was fine with, by the way. I'm like, okay, good. I don't want to deal with this, but, yeah, right.

[Josh]

I'll just stay on tour and hang out.

[Matt]

But I think we were. I think we were a little determined. I was determined to make. To do something, so she really jumped in and. And we started, you know, pulling together the direction of, like, what this could be about, you know, so it ultimately became a thing about Tom trying to make something cool and then struggling to figure out what that thing is. And so it was really a project about a creative crisis that Tom had to figure his way through, which was, you know, which is very in line with being in a band and all the tension. So Tom's struggle with figuring out what kind of film to make and what his role in this whole thing was. Crin's. She kind of set the compass for the movie in that way and then was very, very involved in being brutally honest about every little bit. She's like, I'm bored here. This is like, you know, and so she was. She was.

[Josh]

Good voice to have.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. And she's an editor. She's a fiction editor, but her voice is really, really what I think focused the film for all of us. And she and Tom worked really closely together for a long time, like, pulling it together.

[Seth]

I will say, like, as a feedback note, it's very hard to hear, but there's a real clarity to. I'm bored here. You know what I mean? Like, if you're trying to tell a story and somebody says that, it's kind of hard to argue with, you know, if somebody says, like, I don't get this joke. You can be like, well, yeah, you.

[Josh]

Have a terrible sense of humor.

[Seth]

But if somebody's, like, fully bored, you're like, all right, well, you gotta figure out. Get out.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Tom]

We had a lot of, like, editing sessions, like, notes. Like, people come over that Matt and Corinne knew we were. I guess we were living in LA at the time, and, like. And they.

[Matt]

We had Greg Daniels come over, give us notes at one.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Seth]

Oh, wow. Yeah. Remember Peter in the office? Yeah, That's.

[Matt]

Yeah, it was. I don't know how we got him to our house, but he gave us amazing notes.

[Tom]

But, yeah, Corinne was. Corinne was really good at, like, reading the re. Like, it's a. I don't. I don't know if I still have it, but, like, when you get notes, how do you read those notes? What is it actually? What are all these people saying these different kind of things? What are they actually kind of narrowing in on, you know, or what's working? You know, you can find. You know, when you get notes, like, it was overwhelming, but she was really good at figuring out this is actually what they're trying to say here, you know, we got to fix this part so that she was amazing.

[Seth]

So you guys have a different brother relationship than Josh and I do based on the fact that with nine year age gap. So what was your childhood like? Were you. I mean, it's so hard, I would imagine, to be that close when you're that far apart.

[Tom]

Yeah, I don't know Matt's childhood at all, personally.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Matt]

It was awful until Tom showed up.

[Seth]

And you have another sibling older than you, Matt?

[Matt]

Yeah, our sister Rachel is a year and a half older than me. And Rachel and I were really close or still really close. But when Tom came, it was. I kind of. I mean, he was obviously like a toy for us. You know, we were 9 and 11 or whatever and he was. But it was really fun. It was like from right away, Tom was hit. He delighted everybody, even as a baby. And so he grew up, I think, entertaining us and just being the funniest, the sweetest, the most. And we just. So when Tom was, I'd say seven or eight and I was 16, we were already becoming, you know, or he was, he was, he was 10 or whatever. Like we and I, we were, we were becoming friends when you were really little, Tom. I mean, I remember, like, I remember you and I watching movies together, like as peers when you were a little kid. Predator.

[Tom]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, Matt, you, you. I mean, I say this a lot, but it's like my love of movies and like you would take me, Matt would take me to see movies all the time as. As an 18 year old, you know, he would take me to, you know, I remember seeing Terminator 2 opening night in the theater at Springdale Theaters and we were like fourth in line with a whole bunch of adults and I, I was obsessed with Arnold Schwarzenegger and, And it was amazing, you know, like RoboCop. You brought home RoboCop. That's different though. RoboCop terrified me. I watched that the next day on VHS, like early in the morning that I was seven years old and that's too early.

[Seth]

That's too early.

[Tom]

Way too early. I. One of my, you know, I'm one of those guys. I'm one of my favorite movies because it terror. It terrified me. My. Our. Our dad worked in downtown. He was an attorney for years. And he. As a little kid, he would take me up to. Up to his building and show me his like, you know, I'd go to his office and look out over the city and he'd take me to the big. Kind of big boardroom table with glass windows and all these. A big table and looking out over the city and. And when I saw Robocop and especially that scene with the big robot ED 209 coming in and killing this guy brutally, it gave me nightmares. And it was something I'd never seen before. And for the longest time I was terrified of RoboCop. Now obviously, I'm one of those guys. My star. Oh, RoboCop, so good. But Matt would really. Matt would take. He took me to see Pet Sematary. He took me to see. Yeah, he took me along to movies, concerts. Remember I went to see Goo Goo Dolls at Eden park. And the leads. The lead guitarist at Goo Goo Dolls through gave me his guitar pick. And then you took it from me, Matt. From you. Yes, you did.

[Josh]

You were gonna lose it.

[Seth]

Now we're realizing why Matt wanted to bring a 10 year old with him. He's like, they're not gonna give a pic to an 18 year old.

[Tom]

That's exactly.

[Matt]

I held him up. He was like 10 years old and I'm holding him up.

[Seth]

You still made him wear a bonnet even though he was 10. Yeah, this will help, trust me.

[Tom]

He also took me. I want to say one of my first celebrity person that I knew was Kevin Nealon was doing a comedy show at a Miami Whitewater forest park in the west side of Cincinnati. It was the weirdest. It was my first time seeing somebody because I also liked. We never had cable, so. We never had cable. So Saturday Night Live was this kind of thing that I was able to watch because that. And. And it was goofy, funny. I didn't get half of it, but people acting goofy. Right. And Kevin Nealon was on at the time. And I just couldn't believe I was seeing somebody here at like on the west side of Cincinnati in the Miami Whitewater. And here he is doing a little show for people outside.

[Matt]

Outside in a park?

[Tom]

Yeah, outside in a park. It was wild.

[Josh]

And so you guys grew up outside of Cincinnati then?

[Matt]

West side of Cincinnati, like right on the border of Indiana. And I mean like it's suburban, you know, but my uncle had a farm about 45 minutes away. So we spent a lot of time. And I spent a lot of time on that farm. And you did too, Tom, when, you know. And he had a Christmas tree farm. So it was. It was typical kind of suburban zone. But we, but we did spend a lot of time in like in the country at relatives.

[Seth]

Was that summertime that you would head out to the farm yeah, yeah, we.

[Matt]

Would, I mean, it was, it was, you know, I had, we had older cousins and they all, you know, we would, we would hike the railroad tracks. I describe it as very stand by me. And, you know, we have, you know, rifles and, and camping and creaking and hiking and it was just all we ever did. And working the farm, which was sometimes it was tobacco farm and then they switched it to a Christmas tree farm. And I worked on that farm all through college. So that was a big part of our childhood, I think both of us in some ways. Yeah.

[Tom]

I worked on the Christmas tree farm for four summers. My friend John Keith.

[Matt]

Yeah, I would bring friends down to work on the.

[Seth]

What's the summertime work at a Christmas tree farm.

[Matt]

Pruning.

[Tom]

Pruning.

[Matt]

Gotcha. And mostly it wasn't like a farm with rows. It was rolling hills and woods. It was kind of like go search, go up in the hills and find your own tree. And so it was a constant. Mostly what we were doing is beating back the briars and the stuff. And so we would go out with like weed eaters that had. Or weed whackers but had saw blades on the bottoms of them, just mowing down all this stuff. So it was brutal, hot. We'd come back just covered in scratches and it was awful. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. And then. But the, but the, but the winter was great. You just like go walk with families to find a tree and carry it back to their car and tie it up and with, you know, it was, it was a lot of fun.

[Seth]

Would you be tasked with cutting the tree down? Was that sort of. Yeah, I mean, that was very empowering.

[Tom]

Yeah, the. There was two. Like you could either the whole point was like the family would come out, bring their own saw and you could go out and cut the tree down yourself, which was kind of an experience. But also, I never like you work the winters. I didn't, I was in high school. I didn't want to work the winters. But then also, you know, our uncle had a, like three strapping boys that would like work the farm and they would cut the trees down for people as well.

[Seth]

I do want to say that like kids with rifles walking down a railroad track both reflects a simpler time and also a post apocalyptic future. Like it really. That's one of those images I could break either way. You know, like if it's like 2051, I'm like, oh no.

[Matt]

Oh yeah. Well, we, I remember we were. I mean, this was, I mean and this is funny, but. But, I mean, but. But my uncles and my dad were all, you know, very progressive and for the. Especially for west side of Cincinnati, you know, but we'd still.

[Tom]

We still.

[Matt]

You know, the guns were a big part of the culture on the farm. And. And we would go to the gun and knife shows and, you know, you'd buy everything from throwing stars to, you know, grenade ordinances. And I mean, we had. I mean, my cousins had an M16. We were shooting M16s on the farm, you know.

[Seth]

Wow.

[Tom]

And.

[Matt]

And. But this is. This is true is that I think it was like, in the 80s, mid. Mid to late 80s, that my.1 of the. My cousins and I don't think they ever told their parents' stories that they had a. They had a pistol in their bedroom. They all. Every. Everybody. They had pistols, you know, and stuff. And.

[Tom]

And.

[Matt]

And they were showing a friend of theirs this pistol, and it went off. And the four of them, my three cousins and their friend were in a. In a small bedroom upstairs, and the thing just went off, blew a hole in the wall in between all of them. And. And that's when they. They. They just got rid of them all. They just like. Yeah, like, this is. These are toys.

[Josh]

Did they tack up a poster over the whole.

[Matt]

Yeah, totally. I mean, it was like. They covered it up and it was.

[Seth]

A Rita Hayworth poster. It was just like Shawshank.

[Matt]

And so that was a. That was one of those moments where like, you know, and thank God no one was ever killed. But. Yeah, but. But. But the guns were just, you know, all that stuff was. Was just kind of a part of the. And. And it wasn't. There wasn't any, like, politicalness to that stuff.

[Tom]

Sure.

[Seth]

Of course not.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Seth]

Then, you know, it's funny, I will say, like, growing up around the same time, it is funny you mentioned, like, throwing stars were such a. I feel like I knew, like, four different guys who were like, you want to see my throwing star? And it was just like that, like, ninja culture was such a funny thing that was happening in the 80s.

[Josh]

And they were like. I remember we would make throwing stars out of Popsicle sticks that you could, like, sort of weave them together, and then they would, you know, bust apart upon impact.

[Tom]

Yeah, I bought a. I bought a throwing star and a. And a dart gun. It was. It might have been in Gatlinburg. Like, Gatlinburg, Tennessee always had, like. It was a tourist place, you know, so they had, like, Ripley's Believe it or not next to, like, a Place where you can buy suits of armor and battle axes and stuff. And so I remember I bought a throwing star from. In Gatlinburg, Tennessee. You know, with. With a big blow gun, which dad used to. He wanted the blow gun to hit. To not kill the squirrels, but to like. You can either buy the really long darts.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Tom]

You know, like needles. Or you can buy like little, like. Like little. Little plastic nubs and you can hit, you know, squirrels with them at backyard. So it was for him and myself.

[Seth]

Gotcha. One, they always say Tennessee just cause of the ninja community down there. That's the best place to get a start. Yeah. Two, I will say if I had. If I shot a non lethal blow dart that hit a squirrel, that would be the greatest athletic achievement of. I can only imagine what that would feel like just to watch a little squirrel be like, ah.

[Matt]

Yep.

[Tom]

Yep.

[Matt]

Our dad, Our dad, we had a. We had a. A garden. And we didn't have a. Like a farm in the west side of Cincinnati, but he was so trying to protect his corn and his tomatoes and his. Everything in his garden. And things would get in there every night. So we would camp out in the backyard in a tent with guns and, and, and like my. And we'd have shotguns. And my dad and I, we'd wait for the animals to come in the middle night and then he had. He would think that he would throw on the floodlights and shoot at whatever's there, usually raccoons. And I remember one night we heard something. We saw the rustling. He throws on the lights and he starts blowing away and all the corn is falling. He's shooting down all the corn and it was a skunk and he hit a skunk and it just exploded the neighborhood. And it was. Yeah. So, yeah, there was always about, you know, protecting the crops or protecting the land was kind of silly.

[Josh]

I'm sure the neighbors were bummed out about the skunk that got blown apart. But like in general, a shot going, going off in the middle of the night, I'm sure that wasn't necessarily appreciated by the neighbors.

[Matt]

I know. And we. I mean, the houses weren't that far apart from each other, but it was.

[Tom]

It was fun.

[Matt]

Yeah. I mean, but I think the neighborhood knew that. Must be Paul burning or, you know, protecting his garden or something.

[Seth]

It is funny when you actually have a garden that you realize Peter Rabbit is the villain in those stories. You know, you're just like, yeah, no, everybody likes this rabbit, but trust me, he's not doing jack shit to grow this Lettuce.

[Matt]

Yeah, but he, but then he switched like he used to have like leg traps and stuff, but then he switched to have a heart traps to the ones that close down cages. And so you know, because my, you know, we were just like, we just felt bad killing. So so.

[Tom]

But yeah, I remember multiple times like taking a, a groundhog in a heavy heart trap five miles away and letting it loose. We did that 15 times when I was a kid.

[Seth]

Wow. Yeah, we, yeah, we had just mice in the attic and it was like a tipping mechanism where they would walk in. And so. Yeah, and I, I remember our joke was you'd go in the backyard and let them. They would run, do a 180 and just run back into the.

[Josh]

Yeah, we weren't taking miles.

[Seth]

Yeah. Obviously with that. That is a loophole in our plan was not realizing you had to drive em farther away. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Support comes from Blueland. Hey, Bobby.

[Josh]

Hey Sufi.

[Seth]

You and I, there's one thing we agree on. It's that microplastics do not have a place in our homes.

[Josh]

No. Because the fewer you have in your home, the fewer you're gonna have in your body. Basically.

[Seth]

Yeah. And I like what I put in my body. And I'll tell you this about microplastics. Men don't even taste good. You know what I mean? Like chicken fingers. Also not great, but at least they taste like chicken fingers. Fingers.

[Tom]

Right.

[Seth]

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[Josh]

Yeah, I mean, I use Blueland pretty much everywhere I can. I use it in my dishwasher, I use it for my laundry toilet tablets. Those are proven to work on a range of stains, including rust, mineral deposits, limescale and hard water. It's always sort of annoying when you've got a toilet bowl that just looks a little tired. Brighten it up with Some Blueland.

[Seth]

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[Josh]

Hey, Sufi.

[Seth]

Summer's coming.

[Josh]

Oh yeah, it's coming.

[Seth]

I know what you like to drink in the summer.

[Josh]

A margarita. It just feels right.

[Seth]

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[Josh]

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[Seth]

What's that?

[Josh]

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[Seth]

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[Josh]

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[Seth]

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[Josh]

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[Seth]

I saw it in action when you picked up the bill last time I was in la.

[Josh]

Well, you didn't have your wallet or your phone.

[Seth]

No, my phone was in my pocket. But you love your Apple Card, right?

[Josh]

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[Seth]

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[Tom]

Here we go.

[Josh]

When you were on the train tracks and sort of camping with cousins, would you go out? Would it just be, you know, kids or like teenagers and younger for those nights out?

[Matt]

Yeah, well, my oldest cousin was, I guess, like four or five years older than I was, and then. And so with three boys, and then there was a girl my age, and then my sister a little older, and then Maria, who was another. So they're two girls and three boys. And then my sister and I. This is kind of before Tom, when Tom was still a baby.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And, yeah, we would all. It would be no parents and it would. I mean, we would. We had built so many. Not just like. We built like, forts and trees and tree houses. They, you know, they were out there. They had nothing to do out there. They were. They were pretty far out. And so the five. Those my five cousins were just had built the most incredible adventure land in the woods. And once one winter, they built a. A ice chute in between that went down a big hill that would go around the trees, like. Like a. Like a. What do you call them?

[Josh]

A toboggan?

[Tom]

Yeah, luge.

[Matt]

A luge. A windy luge trail with they. Because we had so much snow and they packed this ice and so we would. We would go down on our sleds and this, like, in. In and out of trees and really, really dangerous. Really, really dangerous stuff. And so there was, they, you know, very little supervision, but. But also an unhealthy amount of trust, I think, in us as kids. Never doing anything too. Too bad. But. But yeah, they were. I would never let, you know, my kid do 90% of the stuff that they let us do when we were kids.

[Seth]

I know it's. But it's so. I mean, as a kid, I just keep thinking, oh, my God, a luge trail through Christmas tree farm. That sounds like every kid's dream. And at the same time, as a parent, I'd be like, no. Yeah, right.

[Josh]

Was there a time when Tom started being brought on those overnights in the woods, like once he's seven or whatever.

[Tom]

I don't. I don't. I think they were. You were like, you know, by that time, if I was able. You were already, like, 14, I guess. I don't remember anything like that.

[Seth]

Okay.

[Tom]

It took me. I was only in my, like, mid to late twenties that I realized that I was not Supposed to. The family unit was already created between my brother and my sister. And then there was some joke that my sister made during, like, Thanksgiving dinner. Like, then. Then Tom came along, and, like, I. Honestly, I had no idea. Like, it all. It all made sense to me. It all, like. Like, oh, right, nine years. Like, they were finished, and that was the family. And then here I am. And so I think they did a few things differently.

[Matt]

We had a family prayer that my dad had written, and we don't do it anymore, but we would hold hands every dinner and pray. And one of the. He wrote it himself. He didn't want to do anymore, so he wrote a prayer. And one of the lines is something.

[Tom]

Our holy family, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, thank you for bringing us together for this meal. We ask not let any time separate us or diminish our joy until we meet with you in heaven. Amen.

[Matt]

Or time. Or let time diminish our joy. And our joke every time when Tom was. Let Tom diminish our joy. So we changed the prayer. And so it was. We laughed and laughed, and he was, like, 6 years old, and he just didn't know. It was so funny about that.

[Seth]

It is really funny that you made it all the way until your twenties that it dawned on you. I just picture you at Thanksgiving, like, very slowly putting your silverware down, being like, well, well, well, they're like, oh, we thought you knew.

[Tom]

Yeah. No, it was. It was. It was. It was. I. It was a slow realization. Like, I got it at that point, and then. Then for the next couple days, I'm like, I cannot believe. Like, I was not. I was not.

[Seth]

But wait, what was your realization that.

[Matt]

You were like that?

[Tom]

I just never thought about that. Like, they didn't realize, because I've always felt behind you guys. I mean, I've always been a. Not the black. I mean, like, my joke. The joke was my whole life with you kind of laughing at me or, you know, it's just like, I get it now. You know, I get it. I mean, I've had fires in college. I got a dui. Like, you guys never did any of that stuff. You know, it's like, my house burned. My apartment burned. You know, Like, I. I've always. My fault.

[Matt]

Were you at.

[Seth]

Were you at fault on this apartment, Tom?

[Tom]

I was like, not necessarily. We did.

[Josh]

That's nodding.

[Seth]

Yes.

[Tom]

Well, like, there was a candle. We in college. I went to college in Montana, and there was. We had some friends over, and we lit. We. My. My friend. We are all very artistic, so we had like, we had an old lamp that didn't work. We cut the cord and we stuck a candle in where the light bulb would go. And at the bottom, the base of the lamp was a really fancy or cool, stupid looking lamp. We had the lampshade and I guess we had friends over. Somebody lit the candle. I didn't light the candle. I'm not gonna say who or what. I don't know who. But the candle was lit and we left to go to another party. And then we honestly, we came back, we dropped off my friend's girlfriend, we left again to go to Perkins, like a diner. And then when we came back, we're like, oh, Tom, looks like your apartment's on fire. And it was. And we got the girlfriend out and the whole place burned down. And it was very traumatic for me. We joke. I laugh about it now, but I think our dad, you know, I also realized not too long ago did I start realizing, oh, you know what? Because dad's our parents insurance covered it all. I know my friends, you know, it's okay. They didn't have like their homeowners insurance didn't cover like somebody away. And so I think dad's insurance covered it all. And I think that's now why mom and dad are like living off a sardine cans.

[Matt]

Financially ruined them.

[Tom]

I think mom and dad would have a lot more money if I didn't burn down an apartment.

[Seth]

What is. I can. So I have. I only have the one younger brother as well, Matt. But like when you get a call like that and again, there's more of a gap between you guys and me and Josh. But my parents used to call me when like Josh would do something and like I just the amount of like big brother, like, like just so disappointing.

[Matt]

Again, it's funny. I mean, Tom, in a funny way, it wasn't because he was so much younger.

[Seth]

We were all.

[Matt]

I kind of always was, was. Was nervous for him. And so, I mean, the truth is, like, he was. He was in college and he was, you know, off to college for the first time and like, I know how crazy everything. And so when that happened, I knew that was going to be really be hard for him. That was going to take the wind out of his sails. No one was hurt, but it was just a, you know, really embarrassing thing. And Brian Debendorf of the national, he also, Tom burned his family's house down. I don't know if you know that. So it's like it happens, Tom, but. But with a cigarette and a trash can.

[Tom]

But But.

[Matt]

But, yeah, but I remember. I remember not. Not being like, annoyed with Tom at all. It was like, ah, just like. Like the last thing he needs is that shit, you know?

[Tom]

Right.

[Matt]

That trauma. And it did. It took the wind out of your sails for a long time. I mean, a little bit in some ways.

[Tom]

Yeah, it did. It's just embarrassing. It was just embarrassing.

[Seth]

Had you. Other than the farm in Indiana, were there other places you guys went on trips?

[Matt]

We did. I mean. Yeah. I mean, Tom. I mean, together. I mean, I did a lot of like, the family trips before Tom was born was like when I was a kid. But like, we did canoeing trips. I remember one canoeing trip in the Quetico, Boundary Waters in Minnesota. Between Canada. There's like all. Just millions of connected lakes and. And we do that a lot. And we went there when Tom. I guess you were. I was I think 15 or 16, so whatever. I don't think you're seven or eight or something. And. Yeah. And it rained for five days and camping. So we just spent the whole time in. In our tents or. Or just canoeing through the rain and everything like that. But you. I remember you. You had a fun. And. And we kind of all had fun on that miserable vacation. But we did.

[Tom]

We. Well, we had that other big Canadian canoeing trip which I remember a little bit of that was like when I was nine.

[Matt]

I think that's the same one.

[Tom]

Is that.

[Matt]

It might be the same one. I don't know.

[Tom]

I think. Yeah, that's the same one. Oh, is that the one where you. You kind of like, mom was so proud of you because you got her back to the.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Safely. There was a big rainstorm and you got her back like. I don't know. She felt you became a man at that point in time. There's a big Canadian rain. Rain torrent. And Matt saved my mom, who sat in the canoe drinking wine as he. As he canoed her.

[Josh]

You're a man today, son.

[Tom]

Yeah, but we. No, it wasn't. It was in. I think it was in Canada. Matt.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's the same. It's the same boundary water.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tom]

I mean, it was like. I just remember a little. We just had our campsite on a little island in the middle of these massive lakes and. Yeah. Rachel. Rachel. I think I just remember the toilet. It was like this. It was like this. You go out from our. On the island about maybe 200 yards, and it was in the middle of like, wet sticks and gross stuff. And I just remember it was just a Little, you know. No, no doors. It was a hole in the ground with like a, you know, a seat on it and like a wood.

[Matt]

Just like a wooden platform.

[Tom]

Yeah, the wooden platform. And I always remember just looking in there, I'm like, this. Oh, my. This is. This is too much. You know, like. I don't know. I remember there was like, daddy Long Legs and stop.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Seth]

We did a Boundary Waters trip with my college friends right after we graduated. And it's really one of the most memorable trips of my life. But we. There was a game where anytime anybody went into the woods to go to the bathroom, somebody would sneak after them and try to get. And again, this is like, disposable camera pictures. And it was called the puparazzi because. And a lot of times, because you would just catch somebody mid squat. And so a lot of photos were, like, just kind of side butt and a resigned face of someone being like, son of a bitch.

[Josh]

Because also, you can't stop.

[Seth]

You can't stop. You can't move. And so we really, to this day, like, some of my favorite pictures are just everybody getting paparazzi and these really sad, like, dummies. Yeah, that is a. It's my. Also my memory of the Boundary Waters is how much of it was, you know, either pouring rain or super buggy or super hot. And like, the portages, where you're sort of carrying canoes over land. And yet, what a wonderful trip, despite, like, remembering seven things about it that I distinctly hated. It's weird.

[Matt]

There were a lot of, like, I remember, like, back around the time, like, guys, college guys taking guide canoeing trips. My cousins, we did it. And our family used to go either up to. Up to the canoeing area or down to Gatlinburg, Tennessee, you know, for hiking in the mountains and stuff. And. And Tom, you went to Gatlinburg with, like, with the family a bunch of times. I mean.

[Tom]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah. I remember Gatlinburg a lot. I mean, it is. I. I mean, I mainly remember all, like, the miniature golf, like, the jungle golf and hillbilly golf and in the haunted houses that you could go there. Like, Gatlinburg was like. For me, that was. I remember a lot of those trips a lot. I mean, as well as all the weapon stores. Yeah.

[Matt]

Do you remember the jungle golf thing where the losers had to go ahead? Yeah.

[Tom]

No. Well, I remember there's a. We have a picture which you don't like to show very much of you just like, I guess we called it boofing. A statue Gorilla. And it was. It's fantastic. We have it somewh. But for a long time you were very embarrassed by it, I thought.

[Matt]

But mom had us do it. We lost and we lost. The losers had to go mount this gorilla from behind. And the whole thing was. Mom, she wouldn't let. We both had to do it. I think there's a picture of you doing it, too. But she said. I remember mom said, no, you have to do three thrusts.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Now it doesn't count.

[Seth]

This is the second time I realized I want to drill down more on your mom.

[Matt]

Yeah, she's funny.

[Seth]

So what was her. What was. What's your mom's vibe?

[Matt]

She has. I mean, she's got a really dirty sense of humor. She just can't. Not any three thrusts is so funny. She's. Yeah, she's so. She's really gross and she's really, really. Yeah, anything. Anything sexual, just like, she can't let it go. Just laughs about it so much. I think both our parents are, like, kind of grew up, you know, Catholic, and they. They were, you know, they met each other in high school, you know, virgins, when they got married and everything. And so, like, for my mom, anything sexual is just so, so funny. She just can't so. Or anything disgusting like that and stuff. So she's always been a bit of a, you know, a troublemaker when it comes to that stuff. I mean, we'll have big Christmas dinners with people and Simba will say something. I won't give an example, but she'll like the dumbest, obvious, you know, you know, dick reference. She'll make it, you know, she can't help, like, corner.

[Josh]

Does your dad.

[Seth]

Does your dad delight in her sense of humor?

[Matt]

Oh, they both giggle.

[Tom]

He's, you know.

[Matt]

No, that's really sweet. It's really funny. You know, they're. Yeah.

[Tom]

I don't know. One of my best memories of my mom. And I was. I was saving this for her funeral. But I'll say it here is that, like, I went to see Ace. Like, when Ace Ventura Pet Detective came out, I was obviously a big, you know, Living Color fan and Jim Carrey fan, and she had no idea. She had no idea. And so I took her to see this thing with. I had. She had to drive me. I was just a little kid. And she was laughing. We were both laughing so hard that she kept farting and peeing in her pants and she peed in her pants in the movie theater at Ace Ventura. And, like, I had to help her out. I had to like get like candy and like a popcorn thing so she can cover herself walking out of Ace Ventura, Pet Detective.

[Josh]

Oh my gosh.

[Tom]

And that was like, that's the best, you know. You know, she's.

[Matt]

Mom put on a popcorn bucket.

[Seth]

Yeah, that's a really fun. I think a good rule of thumb, if somebody walks out of a movie theater still holding popcorn, that means they piss themselves right in front of him. Yeah, just like a low. Oh yeah. Ordered too much. Gonna bring it home. We'll have popcorn for dinner. That's great. So when you would go to Gatlinburg, I assume that's sort of a straight shot drive south from Cincinnati.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah. I can't remember. It was like a six hour drive or something like that. Five hour, six hour drive. And that would be, you know, and it was kind of easy, cheap. And we would go through Pigeon Forge where they had like Dollywood and we would be Dollywood.

[Seth]

And we drove through that stretch a few years ago. And it's just one giant sort of themed park. I mean again, this is memory, but like. Yeah, Medieval World and Pirate World. And I just thought, oh, this is. What a lovely thing for families to know that Wood parks.

[Matt]

Yes, yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff was there.

[Josh]

Did you have a favorite park in that stretch?

[Matt]

That's a good question. No, there were so many. There was this like then. I mean, every little hotel, like would. There's. It's also kind of like, you know, the area of Wisconsin Dells. Yeah. It's got a very similar thing where it's just like. There's a stretch where it's just like different themed, you know, arcade attractions and go karting and all that kind of stuff and. Yeah. So we would pop wrestling. None of it was like a big park. You know, we did Disneyland and Disney World and Florida and stuff a few times. But the regular spots and the spots where I think I've always had the most fun are those like, you know, pop in for a couple hours.

[Seth]

You know, they're like no ip, you know what I mean?

[Matt]

It's just like.

[Seth]

It's like Peg Leg Pete's, you know, roller coaster rodeo.

[Matt]

The biggest thing was, you know, Dollywood was like the big. That was like the biggest. The big one, you know. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom]

But they were Dollywood's great. I mean, they have the best log flume ride. I mean, I haven't been there in 25 years, but the log flume ride is like, is about 20 minutes long. It's going down the Smoky Mountains and it's just so. Wow. You got. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Dollywood's fantastic.

[Seth]

I was just saying I brought my 9 year old to his first amusement park and you, you are taken as an adult with the fact that the rides are a lot shorter than you remembered, you know?

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Seth]

But they're fine. The kids are fine.

[Josh]

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors.

[Seth]

Support for today's episode comes from Square. Hey, Bajeet.

[Josh]

Yes, Ufi?

[Seth]

Have you ever, like, been at one of the places you frequent, Be it a coffee shop or, you know, maybe it's like a pet store or, you know, edm, one of your Edmund Medium music halls.

[Josh]

Sure.

[Seth]

You know, and you just like tap to pay and you think, well, that was fast. Well, it was probably Square poshy because whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, detailing cars, or running a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the ground. And Pashi, are you still with me?

[Josh]

Yeah, I'm here.

[Seth]

Okay, great. Well, listeners can get 200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com go trips. That's SQL U A R E.com go/trips. You visit Square to get started because the right tools will make all of the difference.

[Josh]

Yeah, years ago, I was going into Coachella, actually, and I had forgotten my wallet at home and was really bummed. I didn't want to have to borrow money from people all day and, like, borrow $40 from you and $40 from you. But I knew my credit card information so I could enter it in my phone. And then I was just all the vendors, everywhere I went, for food, for drinks, for merch. We're all using Square. And it was so handy, and I've really never looked back.

[Seth]

And if you're one of those vendors, the reason you're using Square is because it gives you one connected system to take payments, manage inventory, run payroll, send invoices, and track it all from one place. So if you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down. Right now, you can get $200 off square hardware at square.com go trips. That's sq u a r e dot com. Go slash trips. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. Support comes from Quince. Hey, Baji.

[Josh]

Yes, Sufi?

[Seth]

Look, I don't understand why you keep insisting on dropping a fortune on basics when you don't have to.

[Josh]

I haven't. I stopped.

[Seth]

Where have you gone instead?

[Josh]

I'VE been going to Quint's, bro.

[Seth]

Oh, right. They're good. They got high quality stuff, good fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for warm weather.

[Josh]

Yeah, they've got closet staples that you want to reach for over and over. Like cozy cashmere and cotton sweaters from just $50. Breathable flow knit polos and comfortable lightweight pants somehow work both for weekend hangs and dressed up dinners.

[Seth]

And look, everything with quints is half the cost of similar brands. So by working directly with top artisans, this is what they've figured out at Quint's. They cut out the middleman and you're getting the luxury prices without the markup.

[Josh]

Yeah, I mean you look at the prices on quints and they just seem like something's wrong. You know when you're like, hey, I'd love to get that European linen utility work shirt. That's got to be, I don't know what, 130, 140,000? No, 44.90. Well, I mean call it, let's call it 45.

[Seth]

Yeah, 44.90.

[Josh]

But, but it's just you get great deals on great stuff. You look good, you feel good and.

[Seth]

Yeah, and I, I just want to say that my summer has been exponentially better thanks to some lightweight pants from Quints. Sometimes that's like the hardest thing to find. Like a nice lightweight pant. I want something between jeans and shorts in the old summer poshy.

[Josh]

Gotta have it, gotta have it. And sometimes you sort of like shorts are inappropriate. Mom tells dad all the time. He doesn't care to hear those comments. But yeah, I think she has a point.

[Seth]

I will. You know what? I'm take dad's side because you know what he's got?

[Josh]

What's that?

[Seth]

Some beautiful knees.

[Josh]

He's got legs. He knows how to use them.

[Seth]

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[Josh]

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[Tom]

Here we go.

[Josh]

Were you guys a musical family? Would you, you know, were you, would you listen to, you know, the, did you have the same tastes in music if you're on these road trips or.

[Matt]

No, not really. I mean, my parents, you know, I always say, like, my parents had like about 25 records total, right? And, and the whole time I remember, you know, and, and it was James Taylor and Roberto Flack and Willie Nelson and, you know, Judy Collins and I can't remember, you know, there were, there are these, these from that. I feel like they, they went, they went like once or like a, they bought a bunch of records like one day at the mall. And those were always the records, but those records were really played a lot. Barry Manilow. I remember when I was a little kid, my mom was like a lot of Barry Manilow, but it was my sister kind of for me, brought home like when they had those record of the month, 10 records for a nickel or whatever it was, and signed up Columbia House, whatever. And she brought home The Smiths and U2 and REM and, and the Cure. And that was when everything, you know, Violent Femmes. That's when everything kind of shifted for me. And I fell in love with music in a different way. Where most of my friends were listening to Van Halen and that kind of thing. I write, you know, because of my sister. When I was probably in seventh or eighth grade, I was like, there's something else other than that kind of thing. But Tom, when you started really getting into music, I think you kind of purposely. Because I was always trying to shove Stu, you know, alt rock or college rock down your throat. You, you, you sort of, I think, rebelled a little bit, didn't you? And kind of.

[Tom]

Yeah, I, I, I rebelled, I rebelled against you for sure. But I, you know, particularly when I started, really, when I got like my first like, boombox and flip up CD player, there was like, it was, the two was. You gave me Nirvana's Nevermind, and my friends were all listening to Metallica's Black album. And I just liked Metallica's Black Album a lot. I disliked it more at the time. And, and so, yeah, and also I, yeah, I, I kind of got into that radio metal. I mean, when it was radio metal was really good. And then, you know, through early high school, I just was trying to define, you know, as everyone does, just trying to define yourself. And I kind of wanted to pick something that Nobody likes. My brother doesn't like. I want to figure out and I want to mine the good stuff, you know, I want to be an expert on what I thought was like, dumb music. And so I, I from Metallica, I. I got in the Slayer and then I heard a Slayer's only cover song for their. In their classic years was a Judas Priest song. And from. When I looked at Judas Priest and I always thought they were a hair band and I looked at Rob Halford and he had like. On the. A picture was this like, short almost look like, like Billy Idol. Like, like bleach blonde, short hair. I'm like, oh, he doesn't have big, big giant hair. And like, oh. And then you, Then you. Then you look and it's. They go back to the early 70s and I'm like, oh, nobody knows about this Judas Priest. I'm going to get really into that. And I Judas Priest only like. Only because, like, Judas Priest, I guess at the time wasn't popular with my friends or anybody. I'm like, I'm going to get into this. And I still. It was a good decision. I think they're fantastic.

[Matt]

They are.

[Seth]

Josh has had. Josh, I'm gonna bust you. On the poster you had of a band that I bet you never heard a song from. Do you remember you had like. It was like the Cramps.

[Josh]

Oh, yeah. I like the art.

[Seth]

Yeah. But it was like this like, skeleton with like a worm crawling out of his neck.

[Josh]

It was like, gross. It's like he was like on skateboards around the same time too. Like, there was something.

[Matt]

The Cramps and Misfits and all that stuff.

[Seth]

But it was definitely, to me, music. Josh was rapper. It's very funny to be like, I like the album covers. I'm not a fan of the band. Like, yeah, yeah.

[Tom]

Metal. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I. Matt showed me like, the. The world of movies way too young and. And obviously when he kind of left, I just. I loved movies so much. I got Gorezone and Fangoria magazines and I just.

[Narrator]

The.

[Tom]

When you're looking at makeup artists and special effects and seeing them put on below, you know, all the, you know how it's all put together, it kind of demystified a lot of stuff for me. And so I really fell in love with horror movies. And then from there, you know, you got these heavy metal album covers that are. Are really cool. And yeah, it was like, I was big into like, you know, you look at this, like, who is this band? You know, Cannibal Corpse, you know, with Like a was. Was classic, you know?

[Matt]

Yeah, well, Tom, definitely, I would say, Tom, you did kind of enlighten me to how, like metal and all that. Like all that. Your experiments or not experiments, but like, you've introduced me to so much metal that I have listened to and started to understand, like, this is not that different than REM and the Smiths and. And the fact that it is such vulnerability, you know? You know, there's such, you know.

[Josh]

Matt, is that how you get him back?

[Tom]

Yes.

[Josh]

You just ask him to.

[Tom]

Yes, yes.

[Josh]

All right. Matt's frozen. Tom, still with us. Anything you want to do you want to rip on him for Matt?

[Seth]

Like, I think mid salient point. Let's just say he got frozen mid salient point.

[Tom]

Matt always said that like. Like, music is always either about love, anger, or like one other thing, you know, it's like, either. It's just like there's like three versions of songs like Love, Anger or about the music itself, you know, and that's true. It kind of is true with like, any type of music, you know. Are you back with. Yeah, I lost it.

[Matt]

How long ago did I.

[Tom]

About 10 seconds.

[Seth]

Right when you said Christmas Tree Farm. We haven't heard a word since.

[Matt]

When you boof the gorilla, that's when.

[Seth]

You cut out three throws.

[Josh]

It was about the vulnerability of.

[Matt]

Yeah, just like expression of abstract pain. And so when I listen to metal now, I hear it differently. It's not macho at all. It's the opposite. It's kind of showing all the fear and anxiety and just in releasing it all. And so it made me kind of appreciate the beauty and emotional catharsis that metal is.

[Seth]

Somebody posted something on social media that really made me laugh about, because I remember I was growing up and I loved Dawkin and my friend was like, you know, they're not that hardcore. And I was, of course they're hardcore. Tell me one reason why they're not hardcore. He goes, at some point they sat in a room and they wrote a song. It's just so funny. Like, we only see him, but then he goes. You're like, oh, right. Like, you have to remember at some point they're all like, literally, like, you know. And it's in that. I think when you ground yourself in that, you're like, oh, yeah, it's all the same. And it's just different styles.

[Tom]

Yeah. No. Well, Daken had a great song in Nightmare Nom 3, Part 4, which I had when Matt used to work at the video store at Premiere Video, he brought home A whole bunch of movie posters for me and that was one of them.

[Seth]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And that's how I kind of learned about Docken.

[Seth]

I worked at a video store and again, so pre Blockbuster as well, Matt. And it was one of the great perks, was bringing home posters.

[Matt]

Oh yeah. And this and the cutout boards. Yeah, I remember I had so many great posters. Amazon Women on the Moon was one of my favorite posters.

[Tom]

Yep.

[Matt]

Yeah. Yeah, I had, I gave you so many posters, Tom.

[Tom]

Yeah. Nightmare on Elm Street Part four. You had that. You had Assault of the Killer Bimbos that I had up on. But also like I had a huge poster of I think a movie called White Sands with like, with I think had like Willem Dafoe and somebody else. And like I still have never seen it, never saw it then, but it was, it was bigger than the other ones and it was just on my, it was like on my wall. You know, I could tell you who the editor of the White Sands was, but. Yeah.

[Josh]

Were your, were your grandparents close by? Would you go visit them? Were they part of your lives?

[Matt]

Yeah, my dad's mom and dad lived actually a bike right away and, and, and also right by where we went to school, so we often would, would go right to their, their place after school and. Yeah, and we. Yeah, there was always a lot of. In my mom's side of the family. Yeah, everybody was on the west side, both sides of the family. You know, a lot of Irish Catholics and German Catholics and stuff. But so, yeah, there was a lot of family, big family get togethers and both my mom and dad both have four brothers and sisters each. So there's eight sets of cousins and all over the place. So it's this kind of a sprawling west side clan, for sure.

[Josh]

That's great.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Seth]

And do you guys are. Is your, are your parents still in the Cincinnati area?

[Matt]

No, my sister lives in Seattle and my parents moved out of Cincinnati. How many years ago, Tom? Six, seven, eight.

[Tom]

It was right when it was like 2016 or something. Yeah, it was right around that time.

[Matt]

So then now they live, they live like, you know, a bike ride for my sister and, and my nieces. So yeah, there's, there's kind of. We do kind of whatever move around together and that's really together.

[Tom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.

[Seth]

We're my, we see my wife's parents, my in laws all the time and we're very close to them, but not to bring in the city. They're the nearest in the city, which is great. It's just Extra set of hands. But my mother in law is really close with Wes Cravens, widow and, you know, another guy from the era. She's the most wonderful person. It's just so funny again, to go back to, like, how everything's, you know, you never judge a person's character on their work. Like, every time. I love talking to her about him. She's just like, he was the sweetest man. He was, of course. Well, of course he was. But it's so funny, like, because, again, you grow up and you just like, Wes Craven, master of horror. And, like, you know, just the stories about him as a person are just so lovely.

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom]

He grew up very religious. Very religious.

[Seth]

Yeah. Oh, you know, I don't mind.

[Tom]

Oh, I know.

[Seth]

I'm not gonna teach you anything about Wes Craven. Hey, Posh, can I do something you're gonna be really mad about?

[Josh]

Sure.

[Seth]

All right. Josh is a real dickhead when I mention snl, but I just want to say the national. When you guys did SNL, two shows after I left, I was there for 12 and a half years, and I missed you guys by two shows, and I was acutely aware of that. I just wanted to be known. And that's all I'm gonna say about it, Josh.

[Matt]

Because we did meet Taylor Swift that night for the first time.

[Seth]

Oh, funny. So that was that.

[Tom]

Yeah, that was.

[Seth]

Oh, wow.

[Matt]

That was kind of the first time we met her.

[Seth]

So she was just there to see the show.

[Matt]

She was hanging out. Yeah.

[Tom]

Lena Dunham was. Was the. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh]

We're gonna jump right into the speed round because we were getting to snl.

[Seth]

And I told you Josh hates it, so.

[Josh]

All right, you gentlemen can pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational?

[Matt]

Relaxing.

[Tom]

Yeah, relaxing.

[Josh]

What is your favorite means of transportation?

[Tom]

Car.

[Matt]

Car.

[Josh]

If you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, other than your own family, what family would you like to take a vacation with?

[Tom]

The Muppets.

[Seth]

Great.

[Matt]

I was gonna say the Royal Tenenbaums.

[Josh]

Excellent.

[Seth]

Two good answers.

[Josh]

This one's gonna be. Might be tough because you guys are related, so we'll see how this shakes out. If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be?

[Matt]

Tom, for sure.

[Seth]

Really cornered you, Tom.

[Tom]

Sure. Yeah.

[Matt]

I mean, or Mom.

[Tom]

But yeah, I'm gonna say Rachel because she's gonna be not pleased that no one picked her.

[Matt]

She'd be the only one who'd survive, I think.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Josh]

And you guys are from. Do you Consider yourselves from Cincinnati.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Would you recommend Cincinnati as a vacation destination?

[Tom]

I would, yeah. It's. It's. It's kind of beautiful. I have a lot of friends. Yeah, it's, you know, I think it's. It's a Midwest city that has, I would say, maybe turned around a little bit and kind of kind of came up with the times. And a lot of young people that I think I would be friends with and kind of agree. The. The downtown area and the kind of general greater Cincinnati area has really been revitalized and kind of embraced and loved. And. And the. The thing I always say about Cincinnati is, is that for many years, I. I don't. You know, downtown, they didn't. They didn't tear any buildings down. So it's a really old city that they've kind of revitalized, and it's got some beautiful architecture, and it's great.

[Seth]

I mean, those Midwest cities that were smart enough to keep those buildings are incredible to go to because of that reason. Yeah.

[Josh]

And Seth has our final questions.

[Seth]

Have either of you been to the Grand Canyon?

[Matt]

Yes.

[Seth]

And was it worth it?

[Matt]

Well, I've been there. I remember the time. I think it was before Tom was born. We did a whole trip from Cincinnati all the way out to San Francisco. We stopped there, and we stopped at the St. Louis Arch. We stopped all these places, Grand Tetons and all that kind of stuff. But I hardly remember any of those things. I just remember the weird little things in the. You know, there was an accident on the way to Grand Canyon where a truck. Trucker had been killed by all this. The weight of the thing behind him, like, had come through the cab and crushed him. And my dad's driving, and Rachel, my sister and I are asleep in the back. And he wakes us up and he said, guys, get up, kids, There's a dead guy. There's a dead guy. You know, really, I wake up and then we look out the window and we see this horrific scene.

[Josh]

Oh, no.

[Matt]

But I remember that was on our way to the Grand Canyon, and I had. And I think we went back to sleep, but that's all I kind of remember from that day. I barely remember the Grand Canyon at all.

[Seth]

Even, like, the majesty of the Grand Canyon cannot compete with the dead guy in the truck.

[Matt]

No, all it was the dead guy in the truck. But there you go. So lovely talking ended on that beautiful note.

[Seth]

Yeah, really, thanks for putting a bow on it.

[Josh]

Thanks so much, guys.

[Seth]

Really great talking to you.

[Matt]

Thank you, guys.

[Tom]

Yeah. Thank you, guys. This has been really great.

[Josh]

And they're coming. Cousins lived close to the border and they worked on the Christmas tree farm. In summer you'd be out there pruning, getting scratched on your legs and your arms. Dad was protecting his garden when he shotgun blasted a single skunk. The critter pretty much exploded and then the whole neighborhood stunk.

[Narrator]

Mac got free posters for working renting vhs, free DVD.

[Seth]

At the cinema.

[Narrator]

Do lots of laughing. You should your popcorn to cover your be.

[Josh]

Even though Tom was much younger, he still wanted to be his own boy. So he listened to radio metal and.

[Narrator]

He never diminished their joy even when someone left a candle and then they went out on the town. When they came home hours later turned out that the house burn down Sam ram and dark overhead. Matt battled hard to get through the storm while mom sat there sipping some bread. When you've been off the mini golf course the whole round you've been missing your butts Then you have to make out the gorilla and you have to give it three thrust. Yeah, you have to give it three thrusts. Boo. Give it three thrusts. Yeah you boo. Give it three thrusts.

[Seth]

Sam.