TONY, JOHN, & DAN GILROY Went River Rafting With No Helmets

Summary

Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers: TONY, JOHN, & DAN GILROY Went River Rafting With No Helmets

Release Date: June 17, 2025

Hosts: Seth Meyers (Sufi) and Josh Meyers (Pashi)

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Introduction of the Gilroy Brothers

In this engaging episode of Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers, Seth (Sufi) and Josh (Pashi) welcome a unique trio of guests—the Gilroy brothers: Tony, John, and Dan. This marks the first time the podcast features three brothers, adding a fresh dynamic to the conversation.

Sufi [00:12]: "Is that right?"
Pashi [00:12]: "Yeah, I think so, yeah."

Dynamic of Three Brothers on the Podcast

The hosts explore the novelty of having three brothers as guests. They discuss how an additional sibling might have influenced the podcast's dynamic and whether an extra brother would have been welcomed on the show.

Sufi [00:31]: "How do you think a third brother would have fit into our dynamic?"
Dan Gilroy [01:23]: "It is."

Gilroy Family Background

Tony, John, and Dan delve into their family history, shedding light on their upbringing. They reveal that their father, Frank Gilroy, was a screenwriter with a penchant for gambling, which significantly influenced their childhood experiences.

Tony Gilroy [12:05]: "We were living in Brentwood, the Pacific Palisades... it was really exciting."
Dan Gilroy [13:32]: "He was a gambler... He wrote for live TV and became a studio writer."

The Grand Canyon Rafting Trip

The centerpiece of the episode is the Gilroy brothers' unforgettable river rafting adventure down the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon during 1970. Led by their father without helmets, the trip was fraught with challenges and dangers that left a lasting impact on them.

Tony Gilroy [32:30]: "We were on a 10-day river trip down the Colorado River... There are no phones, no safety."
Dan Gilroy [35:31]: "There were dozens of rapids, rated 1 to 10. Half of them were over 5 or 6."

Challenges and Adventures

The brothers recount various incidents during the trip, including navigating treacherous rapids, dealing with unexpected rain, and managing emergencies without modern safety gear. Despite the dangers, the experience fostered a deep bond among them.

John Gilroy [33:04]: "I remember a brochure and... it looked exciting."
Dan Gilroy [37:33]: "He had Buck, the main dude, with a gun... We searched for that gun."

Parental Influence and Upbringing

Frank Gilroy's adventurous spirit and risk-taking nature significantly shaped his sons' upbringing. The brothers discuss how their father's approach to parenting—balancing freedom with responsibility—taught them resilience and self-reliance.

Tony Gilroy [48:03]: "I was probably 15 or 16 years old at that point."
Dan Gilroy [62:13]: "It toughens you up, is what it does."

Speed Round: Quick Questions

Towards the end of the episode, Seth and Josh engage the Gilroy brothers in a speed round, asking them a series of rapid-fire questions to reveal more about their personalities and preferences.

Sufi [65:59]: "Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational?"
Dan Gilroy [66:07]: "I don't like to take vacations..."
John Gilroy [66:16]: "Adventurous."
Tony Gilroy [66:20]: "I like to relax when I go on vacation."

Sufi [67:00]: "If you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, what family would you like to take a trip with?"
Dan Gilroy [66:51]: "I want to go to Jerusalem with Jesus and Mary."
John Gilroy [67:05]: "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus and Mary. Come on."

Reflections and Insights

The Gilroy brothers reflect on the significance of their rafting trip and how it reinforced their bond as siblings. They emphasize the trip's role in shaping their outlook on life and family, highlighting the balance between adventure and safety.

Tony Gilroy [38:44]: "Nothing can kill me. I mean, really."
Dan Gilroy [39:24]: "Of course I was very happy."

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments of their parents' influence and the enduring memories of their adventurous childhood. The Gilroy brothers express gratitude for the experiences that have made them who they are today.

Sufi [70:25]: "This was fantastic to talk to the three of you. Thank you for coming..."
Tony Gilroy [71:00]: "Thank you, guys."

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Key Takeaways

• Unique Family Dynamics: Featuring three brothers provides a multi-dimensional perspective on family adventures and sibling relationships.

• Impact of Parenting: Frank Gilroy's adventurous and sometimes reckless nature taught his sons valuable life lessons in resilience and independence.

• Memorable Experiences: The Grand Canyon rafting trip, despite its dangers, was a defining moment that strengthened the brothers' bond and shaped their future endeavors.

• Personal Growth: The stories shared by Tony, John, and Dan highlight the balance between freedom and responsibility in parenting, and how it fosters growth and self-reliance in children.

Notable Quotes:

• Tony Gilroy [32:30]: "We were on a 10-day river trip down the Colorado River... There are no phones, no safety."

• Dan Gilroy [35:31]: "There were dozens of rapids, rated 1 to 10. Half of them were over 5 or 6."

• John Gilroy [33:04]: "I remember a brochure and... it looked exciting."

• Tony Gilroy [48:03]: "I was probably 15 or 16 years old at that point."

• Dan Gilroy [62:13]: "It toughens you up, is what it does."

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This episode offers a captivating glimpse into the Gilroy brothers' adventurous upbringing, the challenges they faced, and the strong familial bonds that guided them through unforgettable experiences. Whether you're a fan of storytelling, family dynamics, or exhilarating adventures, this episode provides valuable insights and memorable anecdotes that resonate beyond the rafting trip itself.

Transcript

[Sufi]

Hi, Pashi. Hi, Sufi. I got a question. I'm gonna let our guest today be a guide for my opening query. Okay. First time we've done three brothers.

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

Is that right?

[Pashi]

I think so, yeah.

[Sufi]

I mean, again, there's no way of knowing. There's no way to research this stuff. You just have to.

[Pashi]

I'm pretty confident this is the first time we've done a trio of brothers. We have done a trio of sisters.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Pashi]

And maybe another one that I can't remember. So, yeah, apologies.

[Sufi]

It's sometimes when I see. Because it's so fun the way these brothers talk to each other. How do you think a third brother would have fit into our dynamic follow up? Do you think we would let them be on the podcast?

[Pashi]

I mean, I think you, you incorporate whatever comes along into your sort of family dynamic. So I don't know where they would have fit, but I think with all groups of friends, like, you know, we've got that big group of college friends that we see, everyone sort of plays their role and you don't know what your role is until you've sort of lived in it for a while. And so, yeah, we have our roles in the family. And I don't know what a third brother would have been, but they would have found their way.

[Sufi]

Incorrect. The answer was I don't think we would have liked them.

[Pashi]

Oh, no. So not on the podcast. We wouldn't have had them on the podcast.

[Dan Gilroy]

It is.

[Sufi]

I mean, again, we had two boys and I was like, oh, this is great, you. And I couldn't have asked for a better childhood than I had going through it with you. And I'm like, we're good with two. And now I will say a little jealous. Little jealous that there's three of them because they have that thing where when one of them leaves, you know, you know, to go to a sleepover or, you know, you know, you know, maybe one of them. I don't know where else kids go. Job. Maybe they have a job when they leave. The dynamic between the two without the other one around is never worse.

[Tony Gilroy]

Right.

[Sufi]

You know what I mean? Like, they have a great sort of three headed relationship, but anytime one of those heads takes off, it's just so much better. Which is why people with two heads are just in general have a happier life than people with three people with two heads.

[Pashi]

And people with three heads.

[Sufi]

Again, I'm getting a little lost on the analogy here going into the mythology of. Yeah, you know, a lot of the Greek gods, the three headed Greek gods are always like, oh, I wish this one would go somewhere so we could talk. There is a little bit of that where, you know, I think when you have a third sibling, it does open up the avenue for what I believe is a healthy shit talking.

[Tony Gilroy]

Mm.

[Sufi]

You know what I mean?

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

Well, sometimes you just want to have somebody to complain to about a sibling.

[Pashi]

Right?

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Pashi]

It's a release valve. It's a. It's event.

[Sufi]

It's event.

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

Yeah. So anyway.

[Pashi]

Yeah, there you have it. Yeah.

[Sufi]

You have two dogs. And I sometimes think that I wish I had a second dog for Frisbee to hang out with.

[Pashi]

Oh, yeah. Although Frisbee doesn't seem like she'd be. Maybe there was a time Frisbee would have wanted another dog around.

[Sufi]

Yeah. I think now Frisbee, if there was another dog around, she'd be like, open the window so I can jump to my death.

[Pashi]

No, I mean, we had, you know, we had two dogs, and then, you know, sadly. But also, as is the way our very old 18 and a half year old dog passed away. And we were sad, obviously, but then our dog Debbie seemed a bit sad to be all alone. And then we got this young whippersnapper, Woody. And, you know, Debbie never seemed to be super into Pickles, the old dog who had passed away, but she was initially not into Woody at all. But now, man, she just loves him and he loves her. And it does seem like he's breathed new life into the old girl.

[Sufi]

I got to spend a nice afternoon slash evening with you, Mackenzie and Woody and Debbie, and it was great. I would say they bark for the first hour I'm there.

[Pashi]

Yeah. Yeah, they bark a bit.

[Sufi]

Do you think? It's like, not that I'm a stranger, but rather that thing of like, it's almost like I'm trying to pass myself off as, you know, I'm not a whole new thing. It's like some. They're like this. Some shady.

[Pashi]

Yeah, well, with Debbie, it's anyone that makes eye contact with her or that walks in the house and we do that.

[Sufi]

She. Other than that, she cool.

[Pashi]

She's very cool. Just around us. She will occasionally, if I'm like, out walking the dogs, Mackenzie gets home and sees us up the road. Mackenzie will just, like walk straight to us. And I don't know if Debbie just doesn't recognize Mackenzie right away, but she'll very often bark at her. And MacKenzie takes offense at that because there's probably. There's definitely no one in the world who loves Debbie more than MacKenzie, but I don't know. Maybe it's just her saying hello. Maybe it's just her. Her way of conversing is by yelling at you.

[Sufi]

We've talked about this before, but I did do that thing where I was waiting for you guys to get home. You. I sort of. I started last minute, was like, hey, I'm. I'm. Is now a good time to roll over? And I was sitting on your front steps, and I didn't realize you guys had come through the garage. So I was out on the front steps of the home you live in.

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

And we're close. And again, we look and sound close enough. And I feel like three different people came by and were like, hey. And I was like, hey. And then they like something. They had that Debbie moment of like, wait a second.

[Pashi]

Oh, yeah, you're not who you're supposed to be.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

But still, I'm. I'm happy to report that you're obviously a beloved member of the neighborhood, because people are really excited to see you.

[Pashi]

I've been here. I've been here a long time. I know a lot of people in this neighborhood.

[Sufi]

You have, you know, you've really lived in one neighborhood for a long time.

[Pashi]

Yeah. And a lot of people do. A lot of. I mean, people love this neighborhood.

[Sufi]

It's. Good hood.

[Pashi]

Yeah, good hood. For sure.

[Sufi]

You've been getting cocktails that. I mean, the biggest development right now in your life is that. You keep telling me the best place to get cocktails is your grocery store.

[Pashi]

Well, they don't have. It's beer and wine.

[Sufi]

Okay, gotcha.

[Pashi]

Just beer and wine.

[Sufi]

But it's. Now that. Is that. Now that is normal. This is the Gilroy brothers. And they're just so awesome.

[Pashi]

Yeah, they're awesome. They, I mean, all played a part in bringing andor to life and so many things that you've all seen and loved over the years. But andor. I mean, we lean into it pretty hard in this episode, how much we both loved it.

[Sufi]

Tony wrote and directed one of my favorite movies. Michael Clayton, great one. Just had George Clooney on the show for the first time.

[Pashi]

Oh, nice.

[Sufi]

And got to ask him about Clayton, and he had a super funny story about it. And man. So, you know, look, if you're not just a podcast person, if you're also.

[Pashi]

A TV person, you could go dial that up.

[Sufi]

You go dial that up.

[Pashi]

Dial that up later. Because right now, you're right here, right now. Don't split your focus.

[Sufi]

All I'm saying, Posh, before we go to the theme Song is like, I don't. I didn't need another brother because I got everything I needed from you.

[Pashi]

Ah, that's sweet. Yeah.

[Sufi]

I mean, not all good stuff, just everything you need. Everything I needed. Sometimes I needed someone to be a real taskmaster. All right, here's Jeff Tweedy. Enjoy.

[Tony Gilroy]

Family chips with the Mice Brothers. Family chips with my. Go.

[Sufi]

Here they.

[Dan Gilroy]

They are. All right.

[Pashi]

One, two, three.

[Dan Gilroy]

Boys, there's five more of us that are gonna come on in a minute.

[Sufi]

I don't think the Zoom can handle five more.

[Dan Gilroy]

No, we're coming on.

[Pashi]

I mean, if there's a set of brothers who would have good tech and tech enough to do this, I feel it would be you guys.

[Dan Gilroy]

Well, the good news is the stuff you sent us, we were gonna start our own podcast, and this is perfect.

[Sufi]

Oh, no. Somebody pulled a fast one on us.

[Dan Gilroy]

Family trips, I think was gonna be our thing.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, the show. Yeah. Oh, no.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sufi]

Oh, I gotta talk to my agents. I do that contract.

[Dan Gilroy]

This is Nathan for you. We're gonna sort of reverse everything.

[Sufi]

First of all, I do just want to say, I want to start by congratulating you all having finished andor it's such a triumph. I loved it so much. I'm very sad that it's over.

[Tony Gilroy]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Pashi]

And Seth doesn't like much.

[Sufi]

I really don't.

[Pashi]

Yeah, he really doesn't.

[Sufi]

The hardest thing about my current job is how often I have to pretend I like a thing I didn't like.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, yeah, I get that. Yeah.

[Pashi]

I. You guys released three episodes, sort of in a block for four weeks, and it was great. I watched them like, a new movie came out every week, although I thought it was nine episodes. And when I got to the end of that ninth episode, I was really like, huh?

[Dan Gilroy]

How could they end it here?

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

Dangling.

[John Gilroy]

Little dangling.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Pashi]

But I quickly got out the Google and figured out that there were three more and was. Yeah, was delayed at three.

[Tony Gilroy]

You weren't alone. I got, like, three emails from people on that, like, Wednesday morning. Wow. Congratulations. And. But I could tell there was a little hint of like, what the fuck are you doing?

[Pashi]

Yeah, we talked about.

[Dan Gilroy]

We talked about. We talked about in it there, we were going to give Mon Mothma the baby as she was escaping from the Senate that didn't fly in the room for some reason. I don't know why.

[John Gilroy]

Didn't work.

[Sufi]

Now, do you guys approve of. I have a plan, and I want to make sure I have your approval before I do it, which is I'm going to watch Rogue One in three sittings just to, like, trick myself.

[Dan Gilroy]

It's never.

[John Gilroy]

It's never been done.

[Sufi]

Sarah McKinley, be the first, because I will. I mean, I loved Rogue One a great deal, and yet I have not seen it since I saw it in the theater. So I'm very excited, actually.

[Dan Gilroy]

Are you a Star wars fan? Are you both Star wars fans or not?

[Sufi]

Star wars fans? I think I'm a fan the way certainly Tony described it to me when he was on the show, which is. I love the show a lot. And then you realize there's a kind of fan that you are not. But it was a very important part of my childhood.

[Pashi]

Yeah. I mean, some of the first memories we have of going to the theaters with our parents are for Star wars movies and our dad, like, at the end of. I think the first one, just going, like.

[Sufi]

I think somebody said, I'm a Jedi. Wait, Luke said something that my dad screamed? Yeah, really loud.

[Dan Gilroy]

Your dad was a Star wars fan? Going back to 77. No, that was a big deal when it came out, I think Tony said on your show. You saw it? I saw it the Friday night. Johnny, you were with me. Johnny and I and some friends went the Friday night in Paramus Mall that it opened up.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

And didn't the film break and burn or something? Maybe I'm imagining.

[John Gilroy]

No, no, no.

[Dan Gilroy]

Okay. No, no, no. That was another thing.

[John Gilroy]

Different. Different movie.

[Dan Gilroy]

That was the actual ending. Climax. I got it wrong.

[Sufi]

Right. So. All right, Tony, I knew you had two brothers. What I didn't know until today is that John and Dan showed up at the exact same time. You guys are twin brothers.

[Dan Gilroy]

We're twin brothers. We are identical.

[John Gilroy]

I think you can tell, right?

[Sufi]

Well, for the podcast listeners, we'll just go with fully identical.

[Pashi]

If you're watching on YouTube fraternal, I'll.

[Dan Gilroy]

Raise my hand when it's Dan.

[Sufi]

Just so you guys know, Tony, did your parents tell you before your brother showed up that you were gonna have two at once? And how did you feel?

[Tony Gilroy]

The easiest way to describe, literally, is my first memory. So I'm two and a half. I remember it. I remember all kinds of things from that day. And then I kind of don't remember anything for about 15 years after that. I mean, I really. It was. It was highly traumatic for me, I think.

[Sufi]

Yeah, I would imagine it, really.

[John Gilroy]

He let us know that all over and over.

[Dan Gilroy]

No, no, no.

[Tony Gilroy]

That's a family. You know how families get their cliche stories. But. But it is. It was clearly a Shock. It was a shock. I had everything under control until then.

[Pashi]

Where were you living at that point?

[Tony Gilroy]

We were living in Brentwood, the Pacific Palisades. Palisades. When it was really. I mean, when it was heaven, it was just as it was an absence. Vacant lots and orange trees and it was really exciting.

[Sufi]

But you were a New Yorker and then was your family out in LA for work?

[Tony Gilroy]

My father had been. He had been. I mean, it's a long, complicated story, But World War II saved his life. He lied his way into Dartmouth College, where he transformed himself from a complete ne' er do well into a rock star. He went to the early version of Yale Drama School and was instantly bored because he'd already had a bunch of plays produced and he was a gambler and he became a horse handicapper for several years. Like I said, they had a good. The money system that paid. And he wrote for. He started writing for live tv and he got traction in live TV and then followed live TV out to LA and became a studio writer and a bungalow writer. And when we were living there, he was like a happening screenwriter.

[Dan Gilroy]

But, Tony, you were born in New York, and then.

[Tony Gilroy]

I was born in New York.

[Dan Gilroy]

Johnny and I were born in New.

[Tony Gilroy]

York for a couple years in New York and then we moved to la.

[Sufi]

This is maybe the only story I've ever heard where it's like, my dad was a gambler and it turned out great.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, it didn't turn out great, but. Okay. No, he had a.

[Dan Gilroy]

He was a gambler.

[Tony Gilroy]

There are. There are subsistence gamblers who can make a living. And he had a money system with another guy.

[John Gilroy]

And he also moved us to. To New York. Moves us back to New York, and then we all ended up in the business. He didn't move us away so we could.

[Tony Gilroy]

You know, we lived in LA for five years. Yeah.

[Sufi]

And so. But he brought you back to New York because he did not want his kids to necessarily be showbiz kids. And then you all. But you all found your way to it independently.

[Dan Gilroy]

Thank God he's dead. He'd be so disappointed. One of the few blessings in our lives is that he didn't get to see this.

[Tony Gilroy]

No. But he. You have an idea how this is going to go now?

[Sufi]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

Already. Yeah. You see how it's going to go.

[Sufi]

I certainly know how. I know what role Dan plays in a writer's room.

[Pashi]

I can tell you that much.

[Dan Gilroy]

All the jokes that didn't get into the show I wrote. There was so much comedy.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, but his aspiration was Always to be a playwright. So actually in the big strike in 60s, he wrote a play and he got off as a playwright. And when he finally had it going on, he moved back east to be a playwright.

[Sufi]

And he did win a. He won a. He's a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright.

[Tony Gilroy]

When did that happen? 64.

[Dan Gilroy]

65.

[Sufi]

65, gotcha.

[Dan Gilroy]

And look, he was a gambler. He would gamble on horses, he loved to go to Vegas. But he made independent films and he gambled heavily on his independent films. He wrote. Everything was autobiographical and he kept diaries and he published his journals in different forms. And when you go back and look, he's talking about raising the money for the third film and getting to a fight with our mom because he's taking out his second mortgage on the house. I mean, it was like everything they tell you not to do. His gambling instincts were just like, just gonna roll my own money on this, you know. He was a true gambler. The definition of a real gambler is somebody who gambles more than they can afford to lose. I like to gamble, but I'm not a gambler like him.

[Sufi]

You guys did self fund andor. Correct. You got some money from Disney for that.

[Tony Gilroy]

Wow. Wow.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, it was a funding thing.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, but he, yeah, so he, yeah, he came back east and he became a really big deal when we, I mean, there was a period of time where he was just an absolute Broadway rock star. I mean, he's the president of the Dramat and he had, he had, you know, he, he was a real serious, serious player, big time.

[Sufi]

What was your, what was your mom's background? What did she do?

[Tony Gilroy]

She grew up in New Jersey, second generation. Her parents came, her parents had come from Hungary and Czechoslovakia and they were, they had raised an entire family by the time she was born. They, she was a very late child. Like, there's pictures of my grandparents. If you look at it, it looks like it's a daguerreotype. I mean, seriously, man, they were like, he'd be like 150 now. So they were, they were tired and old and they had already raised children. And she was an exceptional addition to that family. I think she was sort of an alien there. And both of them, he was an only child and she was an only child in a way. They, they both made that, that massive crazy post war reinvention where they just invented themselves and just made the up as they went along. She ran away from home at 16 basically, and became, you know, whatever the, the, the proto, the proto hippie. Mary Tyler Moore was of 19, you know, 51, she's in the Village and you know, they met on a blind.

[Dan Gilroy]

Date at a jazz club.

[Tony Gilroy]

They met on a blind date.

[Dan Gilroy]

He was supporting himself as a horse gambler, she was into jazz and it all just kind of worked out.

[Sufi]

That seems like, I don't know, like a Mad Libs. What was happening in the Village. Well, I mean.

[Tony Gilroy]

I mean, if you think of all the. It is interesting, the chaos of that time. I mean, all the. They were not alone. Their whole cohort was made up of a lot of people who like, what are we? We're nothing. But, I mean, the three of us are. We're upgrades. We're just replicants of shit that happened before. You know, maybe do it better. We learn from past mistakes. We have a whole platform of experiences to draw on. They had nothing. They had magazines, they had what other people were doing. Like the Kennedys are doing this. We should do that. You know, I mean, literally, they like. It was. It was all homemade and fascinating and full of all the joie de vivre that comes with that, but then all full of all the. All the error that comes with that too.

[Dan Gilroy]

When they moved back east, we wound up growing up in a farmhouse in the Hudson Valley not far from West Point. It's kind of a nine acre sprawling former farmhouse kind of in the middle of nowhere. Back then. And then raising us, they were like the complete opposite of helicopter parents. They would sort of say hello to you once in a while and give you food. But other than that, we were kind of on our own. They gave us love and everything, but there was a lot of independent.

[John Gilroy]

And dinner was on the table at 6:30 every night. But other than that, you could do anything you wanted to do.

[Pashi]

There was a school. You guys had to go to school, right?

[Dan Gilroy]

There was a school.

[Pashi]

Okay.

[Dan Gilroy]

It was a public school.

[Tony Gilroy]

Very, very unusual moment in time and place that we grew up. We grew up, everybody again, this is too long. But like Washingtonville, New York at that point in time had three separate constituencies jamming into a school simultaneously. There was Stuart Air Force Base, which was a sac, a Strategic Air Command. So it was, you know, pilots, engineers, the hottest moms in history because they were all the best looking girl in every town who could marry an Air Force guy, right? The kids were so glamorous. They would go to Germany and here and they would park in our school for a couple years. That's one third of it. One third of it is the Washingtonville dairy community, which has been there forever, of which like 30% of it's black from before the Civil War. Like, you know, conservative black community. And then where we grew up. And then what we were part of a wave of is just this massive exodus of out of New York City, the Robert Moses exodus. And our neighborhood was nothing but the sons and daughters of New York City. Cops and firemen literally everywhere around us. So you mix those three. Overcrowding, drugs, Vietnam, civil rights, heroin comes to Newburgh. I mean it was. It was like when I went. By the time the boys, they're a little bit behind me, by the time they got to high school, they had just started to get under control. But my formative years were. You wouldn't believe the chaos of the high school state New York.

[Sufi]

Well, that was the thing I was going to ask you all. Give off the vibe of people who grew up in New York City. How did that happen, considering you grew up in the Hudson Valley? And then of course, you've answered the question, which is it was. It basically seems like they exported New York City to upstate.

[John Gilroy]

Partially.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, I guess so. I mean it was. I think the main takeaway is that they're really. I don't really ever remember having homework ever. Really? Yeah, no. You know, and you could test well. And I. They threw me out of there when I was 16 and I left. You know, it was. Man, it was crazy there.

[Sufi]

Did you guys share a room?

[Dan Gilroy]

No, it was. It was a. Like a. It was a big farmhouse, like five bedroom, a sprawling kind of thing.

[Sufi]

Right.

[Dan Gilroy]

A lot. It was large and it was kind of like you could get lost in a little bit. So we all.

[Pashi]

Were you in a wing? Set off from your parents, were you?

[Tony Gilroy]

Johnny? Johnny.

[Dan Gilroy]

Johnny was in a wing.

[Tony Gilroy]

Johnny was in a wing.

[John Gilroy]

I had my own wing.

[Dan Gilroy]

Well played pretty much.

[Sufi]

Why do you think you got your own wing, Johnny?

[John Gilroy]

I was editing all their little films.

[Dan Gilroy]

You didn't sleep well. I remember you'd be up late at night. Maybe that's why they wanted you sort of.

[John Gilroy]

I don't think. It wasn't that big a house. We did not have wings.

[Pashi]

When I say wing. Yeah, but there are sometimes there's a bedroom that's set off from the others and it sounds like that's where you were.

[John Gilroy]

I was next to the au pairs room, which is actually a pretty good thing to do.

[Dan Gilroy]

We were raised in a lot of ways, but we had seven or eight au pairs growing up. They would come every year because my dad would go away. Our dad would go away for months at a time to la. My mom was There alone with three boys. We were a handful, to say the least. So every year, every 365 days, a new au pair would come from Germany or France or England or God knows where. And we had seven or eight of them, and they were a big part of our lives.

[Tony Gilroy]

Like sisters, like, until they got too interested.

[Dan Gilroy]

They were more than sisters. They were like mothers, sisters, girlfriends. I mean, it's like you're. Every year they leave, you're just holding onto their thighs, going.

[John Gilroy]

I love you.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, no, that's. That's a component.

[Sufi]

Yeah, I. Yeah, I think if we. If a German girl spent a year with my two sons, it would. They would go. They would be living in Berlin right now. They'd be like, we're not. We're going with her.

[Dan Gilroy]

I spent time in therapy talking about the old paragraph. I do.

[Tony Gilroy]

Really?

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah. Because they would leave every year. It was so emotionally traumatic that after, like, the sixth time, it was like, I'm not going to cry about this shit anymore. You know, it's just, like, you sort of develop.

[John Gilroy]

It's a life lesson, Dan. That's what it is.

[Sufi]

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Support for family trips comes from Airbnb. Hey, Pashi.

[Pashi]

Yes, Sufi.

[Sufi]

You know, we're taking this Amsterdam trip, and I'm heading over there with Ash, and one of the things that's so exciting for me is showing my son this town, this city I used to live in. And it's really cool because you're gonna be there. A lot of the people we used to work with over in Amsterdam are going to be there, and it's so fun that he's going to see it through my eyes, you know?

[Pashi]

Yeah, I'm excited, too, you know, but.

[Sufi]

When I lived there, I, you know, wasn't living in a hotel, obviously, you know, we fully live there, so it's been so cool looking at Airbnbs that he and I could stay at, because I want the full Amsterdam experience as a guy who lived there. And it's so cool that, you know, people who are living there now are, you know, making their homes, these incredible things for travelers like myself, for my son to come and have an extra special trip.

[Pashi]

Yeah. And maybe you have an incredible home that you've created and you'd like to let other people stay in your house, maybe make a little extra money, share what you've created to make people's vacations and people's travels all that much more special.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

Yeah, Sufi.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

Oh yeah, it's the worst.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

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[John Gilroy]

That was the one thing my parents did. They really, they took us, they almost never went on vacation by themselves. It was always a family vacation and we were very well traveled as kids. It was Europe and California.

[Dan Gilroy]

There was a pattern to it. Frank, like all careers would have highs and lows. And as a gambler, you can see they might have been extenuated by that. So when he had money, it would be big trips, incredible trips. And then when there was no money, you know, he'd be mowing the lawn himself for a couple years. But it was, but the trips themselves were usually built around. He'd gotten a big check and blowout trip to Europe for two months or this Grand Canyon thing we may talk about or whatever. It's like trips, but.

[Sufi]

So Europe, a two months Europe trip like that must have been. You probably didn't know anyone your age who did that.

[Dan Gilroy]

No.

[Tony Gilroy]

Well, that's a really. That's something that we've discovered in the last couple years that we. That we didn't. I think it was just sitting there sort of obvious for us, but I don't. It came up in another interview. And then we were together in LA and we had this conversation. We. This really happened, but we didn't really acknowledge it until recently. We never could tell any of our friends or any of the kids that we hung out with or anything that was part of our life there what we were doing when we were doing this stuff. We never talked. I mean, I went to every Broadway opening you can imagine through the 60s. There isn't one friend of mine who even knew what that was about or ever understood it. We never spoke about any of the things that we did like that. So we had. We all three of us had essentially. And there was some leakage as you get into high school. Obviously you get girlfriends and different things, but in general, our memory is of completely and never. It wasn't like, oh, let's not tell anybody. You just did it. It just was. Yeah.

[Sufi]

So it wasn't your parents telling you like.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, it was just wanting to fit in. We knew what we had to do to fit in. And I'll say also that, I mean, we're all robust and we were all, you know, we were all physical and handy when we were kids. If any of us had been weak, if there was any kind of. Any, any. And not even weak. If any of us had been really a little too interesting at that point, it would have been. Our neighborhood was there to expose everything that was wrong with you.

[Sufi]

Right.

[Dan Gilroy]

Well, Johnny and I were bullied to a degree in third and fourth grade and then going into fifth grade there was a couple, like one bully in particular. And it was a big moment when Johnny one day punched the kid out and like suddenly. And I looked at it go, oh, you can fight back. And then we fought back for a little while. But Tony's thing, what we were talking about, then you learned just why even fucking talk about it. It's not even worth. You don't want to separate yourself from this group that you're hanging out with.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

So you just don't talk about it.

[Tony Gilroy]

So we really. We never. We did an incredible number of really bizarre, luxurious and fascinating things in our childhood. There's another element of my Father that I think, because we kind of decided if we're going to talk about a family vacation, which one we're going to talk about. But he would. In the same way, the same impulse control issue that he would probably have with gambling. He would like. He would just, like, get in the car and load it up. And like, I remember when we were. When they were really young, we went to a place that no one had ever heard of before called nantucket in like 62 or something, whatever the fuck it was. And I remember we're on the ferry and my. I don't remember this. My father tells a story and someone said, well, where are you staying? He goes, well, I haven't made reservations. We're just going to figure it out when we get there. Like, he never got it. He, like, would just wing it, man, the stuff. And he. Man, he lucked out more often than not. But it was very tension making for some of us. For me, it was very tension.

[Sufi]

That's interesting. So as kids, when you have a dad like that, you don't learn to be like that. You.

[Dan Gilroy]

Actually, I learned to be like that on our honeymoon. My wife gave me the responsibility of booking the hotel rooms, which when we got there, I did not. I didn't realize what a big deal that was gonna be. I thought that was normal.

[John Gilroy]

I think Danny and I were blissfully ignorant. I think Tony. It really had an impact on Tony. Tony became the op. Tony's a planner. Tony always has that stuff done. He will never go anywhere unless he has a reservation. He knows exactly what it is. Danny and I, you know, you're more carefree when you're the younger. Younger sibling. You know, you're kind of like.

[Dan Gilroy]

And Tony makes all of our plans, so it's perfect.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sufi]

What about. How was your mom with it? Was she just. Was she okay with.

[Dan Gilroy]

That's a good question.

[John Gilroy]

She rolled with it. She kind of. I mean, I'm sure she kind of rolled her eyes.

[Dan Gilroy]

Bother her a little bit, but.

[John Gilroy]

But she, you know, there was no fighting. Like, she wasn't.

[Dan Gilroy]

That we saw. No, they never fought in front of us. I never saw them raise a word. And there were definitely fights going on, no question.

[Sufi]

Now, Josh, would you say that's an accurate way to describe our parents?

[Pashi]

No, we had a. Yeah, we had a front row seat. Front row seat.

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, really?

[Tony Gilroy]

Battling.

[Sufi]

And by the way, our parents are incredibly, like, love each other a ton and they're our best friends, but the idea that we've never. It would be so funny to Be like, you know what, what would it look like if they fought in front of us?

[Dan Gilroy]

I wish they fought in front of us. I learned it. I thought like, oh, couples don't fight. No, you know what?

[Tony Gilroy]

They're sugarcoating a little bit. At my mom's funeral, I reminded everybody that I think the thing I heard most in our life is our father walking back down the hallway to the dinner table where we're sitting there. And I hope you boys are happy, but your mother is upstairs crying.

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, yeah.

[Pashi]

So he put it on you.

[Tony Gilroy]

I heard that.

[John Gilroy]

That's a different issue.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, there were times early on when he'd be away and we'd be young and it got so overwhelming. I remember her leaving the house, just got in the car and drove away for hours at a time. And I was like, whoa, Mom's left.

[Tony Gilroy]

Like, what?

[Dan Gilroy]

Is she coming back?

[Tony Gilroy]

Well, the trip we want to talk about. She disappears for 10 days.

[Pashi]

Please, let's get into that.

[Dan Gilroy]

Where were you? She didn't go on the trip. She didn't go on the trip. She went to Hawaii.

[Tony Gilroy]

She didn't go on the trip.

[Dan Gilroy]

She went to Hawaii when we took this other trip.

[Pashi]

And where did you go?

[Dan Gilroy]

All right, so Grand Canyon. Frank had a good idea.

[Tony Gilroy]

1970. 1970. So what am I, 13? I'll be 14. So you guys are.

[Dan Gilroy]

How old are you?

[Tony Gilroy]

10. So he like, he's like again, you said you thought he saw like as a Kennedy move or something. It's just like, what should we.

[Dan Gilroy]

RMK had just taken that trip.

[Tony Gilroy]

What should we do with my boys? And so we're gonna take a 10 day river trip down the Colorado river on Rafts in 1970. And he books it and my mom goes to Hawaii. I have no idea what's going on in their relationship. She'll disappear for ten days. A very Joan Didion. A very Joan Didion. Ten days in Hawaii.

[Dan Gilroy]

They might have been having some problems then.

[John Gilroy]

No, but also she's not comfortable in the water either. She may have just didn't want to buy anything.

[Tony Gilroy]

But I think the planning of the trips was the key. And we show up and you started a place called Lee's Ferry, and you go 280 miles down the Colorado river for 10 days on rafts and there's no phones, there's no safety. We get there and it's kind of like we get there and we get.

[Sufi]

Can I just jump in to say, do you remember before it started? Were you excited?

[John Gilroy]

Yes.

[Dan Gilroy]

I didn't know what the great king Was.

[John Gilroy]

No, I remember. I remember a brochure and, like, you know, picture, and you're like, wow, we can do this. And the rafts.

[Dan Gilroy]

And it looked.

[John Gilroy]

It looked exciting.

[Sufi]

And your dad. Were you guys the kind of boys who were, like, excited to be with your dad?

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah.

[John Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

Cause we didn't get to.

[John Gilroy]

Sometimes he was. Sometimes when he was away for three or four months, we would be. We would miss him. I mean, sure.

[Tony Gilroy]

You're making him sound needy. No, no.

[John Gilroy]

And then we would. No, he would go away.

[Dan Gilroy]

We'd be.

[John Gilroy]

And then when he came back, we would punish him for being away, because we would bust him.

[Dan Gilroy]

We wouldn't punish him. He liked to do physical things. My memory of my father, a lot of it is out on the lawn, and we're playing touch football, and he's drawing the play on his shirt, going, okay, you go over here. So it was like. It was like he was physical. We did physical things with him.

[Tony Gilroy]

You know, two things. One, he was an only child who fetishized brotherhood.

[John Gilroy]

Yeah, that's true.

[Tony Gilroy]

He was absolutely. I mean, if there was any temple for him, it was fraternity and the lack of it in his life. That's number one. Number two, the important part of the story is, okay, we went to summer camp and shit, and I went on canoe trips, and my father was in World War II in combat. But, man, we are as far from an outdooring family as you can get with that provenance. We were not like. This was not. It was like, wow, we're gonna camping. Like, no one was really. So we get on these fricking rafts that are made from these Korean War. Someone took these Korean War surplus pontoon bridges, and they figured out you could take five of them and you could take a piece of plywood in the middle and lash it all together and put a little outboard motor on the back of it and pack it with enough food for 10 days or enough to get you to Phantom Ranch halfway down, and you could actually almost survive the rapids. Seriously, man. Almost survived the rapids. Had to wear helmets. And Were there helmets?

[Dan Gilroy]

No, no.

[Tony Gilroy]

Some kids had helmets.

[Dan Gilroy]

Helmets had not been invented by the.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, no, but.

[Dan Gilroy]

No, but Life preservers.

[Tony Gilroy]

And, man, we get out there and, like, I think within the first hour, it's already too late. And he realizes, oh, my fucking God, these kids. I brought my kids, and they're way too young. The two of them are way too young. This is dangerous shit.

[Sufi]

And so there's no. I'm sorry, guide or no guide. Is it just a. Yeah, It's a guy.

[Dan Gilroy]

Two guys.

[John Gilroy]

Yeah, two. Yeah, two guys.

[Tony Gilroy]

Two guys with the. With the. But the outboard.

[Dan Gilroy]

Two.

[John Gilroy]

Two very, very knowledgeable guys, because you really had to be an expert to navigate this river.

[Dan Gilroy]

As a point of reference over the. There are dozens and dozens of rapids. They're rated. It goes from 1 to 10. Like, it's almost cinematic. The last rapid you go through is a 10. It's called lava Falls. But I would say half of them. I actually looked it up. Half of them are over 5 or 6.

[Tony Gilroy]

6.

[Dan Gilroy]

The definition is danger to life and limb. So it's like these were. These are hardcore, like, walls of mountain, you know, water.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, no, man. You're. When it was. I'm telling you, man, you could. If you fell off.

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, yeah, you were in trouble.

[Tony Gilroy]

Death was so. But, like, he's got his kids. This is no insurance. God only knows. There's no way to get in touch with anybody. There was a line of sight. The rumor was there was a line of sight radio that could grab a plane. And there was a rumor that Buck, the main dude, had a gun somewhere.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, Buck had a gun.

[Tony Gilroy]

Buck has a gun.

[Pashi]

Yeah. That'll help you when you fall in the water.

[Dan Gilroy]

We were looking for that guy. Shoot the river. We searched for that gun.

[Tony Gilroy]

And 10 days.

[Pashi]

Amazing.

[Tony Gilroy]

10 days we did this.

[John Gilroy]

Once you start. You can't. You can't now.

[Sufi]

All right, but. So your dad clocks right away. He's made a terrible choice. Did you. As kids, did you know he'd also made a terrible choice?

[John Gilroy]

We loved it.

[Dan Gilroy]

We loved it. It felt like we were like, whoa, this is heavy. This is like.

[John Gilroy]

No, but the first rapid. The first rapid, he was like. I saw. He was, like, white. And we were like.

[Tony Gilroy]

We.

[John Gilroy]

We were actually really happy because we were blissfully ignorant of what was going on. We just were having fun. It looked like a ride to.

[Dan Gilroy]

But there were times that you were going. Because, look, very early on, the rapids are so big, they actually pull over and the guys have to study.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

They have to look at it for, like, an hour, and they're arguing. So you're exactly watching these adults going like, well, don't go in that pothole, because it'll flip up. So you're going like, whoa. This is like. They gave you the option sometimes to walk around if you wanted to.

[Tony Gilroy]

There were some. You couldn't, though.

[Dan Gilroy]

No.

[Tony Gilroy]

And the van.

[John Gilroy]

I felt like we were in really good hands, though. Like, I felt somehow I felt like Buck and the other guy, I felt like we were Even though it seemed dangerous, I. I have really happy memories of that trip. I really.

[Dan Gilroy]

Of course I was very happy.

[Sufi]

Buck was like, there's no risk of drowning. I'll just blow your brains out if you go in the water.

[John Gilroy]

I got this gun, man.

[Dan Gilroy]

I'm not afraid to use it.

[Tony Gilroy]

Two things.

[Sufi]

Was it joyous for you, Tony?

[Tony Gilroy]

Two things. One was there's a variable that's additional. The dam above Lee's Ferry so much depended on how much water they were letting out when you were. And the river. So there was this constant gauge of. And the more water they let out, the safer it was. The less water they let out, the closer everything was. So there was always a debate about, oh, my God, you know, that the numbers are going up or down. Because of that, they're right. They would get out and study these things like a chessboard. But the real thing is, look, man, I mean, as freaked out as Frank was and as non outdoorsy as we were, you don't. I mean, man, I don't know what the moment was where I didn't think I was gonna live forever, but I lived through. I mean, through my early 20s.

[Dan Gilroy]

I.

[Tony Gilroy]

Man, who thinks you're gonna die? Nothing can kill me. I mean, I mean, really. And we saw. And to go back to our high school. A couple kids died every year in our high school. I know that sounds weird, but there was always two motorcycle accidents and a drowning and an overdose and something else. So, like, man, I would. Did you ever think you were gonna die when you were four? Never, ever. No. Kill.

[Dan Gilroy]

The trip was interesting about the trip. It got. It got the rapids. It was like a movie. The rapids got bigger and bigger. Like the second half of the trip, they were getting bigger. So it was just always building. It was kind of like the opposite of Apocalypse Now. Like, get off the boat as soon as you could. It was the opposite of like what they told you to do. It was like. It was like these were going to be heavy, heavy rapids.

[Tony Gilroy]

And then we're really forgetting. I mean, even as a kid, you're in awe. The physical complexity, the grandeur of the Grand Canyon. And we saw every inch of it. And it has many, many, many different characters in there, but it, like, it's so awe inspiring. And there's no other people. Like, I think if you go now, it's all crowded. It's like going to Mount Everest or something. You know, we saw maybe one or two other boats the whole time we were there.

[Dan Gilroy]

Maybe almost nobody was a big deal.

[Tony Gilroy]

You're just like back to primordial. You're very. I think it puts everybody on our. I think it put everybody into a vaguely, you know, spiritual dimension. In a subtle way, you're looking up.

[Dan Gilroy]

A mile the whole time. Like, it's just a mile.

[John Gilroy]

You're a mile down. Yeah, it's. Yeah.

[Sufi]

And actually, do you feel like there was a real sense of familial accomplishment when it was over?

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, definitely.

[John Gilroy]

I think so.

[Sufi]

Yeah. I mean, it does seem like a father's dream.

[Tony Gilroy]

It's a father's dream. You end up in Las Vegas.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, we end up in Lake Mead or Lake Paloma.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

So for my father, Mecca.

[John Gilroy]

Mecca. At the end of the line, I'm.

[Tony Gilroy]

Gonna grow a beard. I'm gonna spend 10 days with my boys. We survive, and we end up in Vegas. Oh, my God.

[Sufi]

And then how many days did you spend in Vegas?

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, a week.

[Dan Gilroy]

Four or five. Five. He liked to spend. Yeah. He was probably trying to raise money for a movie at that point.

[Sufi]

So when you have your dad, when Frank takes those three boys to Vegas, you're 10 and 13. What do you guys do during the day? Or more importantly, what do you do during the night?

[Dan Gilroy]

They took us to circus. Circus, which was something you could. I think that was back then. They took us to some sort of family friend. It was not family friendly yet, but we. Yeah, we went and saw Pat Boone and fell asleep in the front row. I remember that. And he commented on it.

[Tony Gilroy]

We were really handy in hotels when our parents weren't around because we'd spent a lot of time in hotels where they would go out. So we would just take care of ourselves and, you know, go to game rooms and try to get. Find other kids and just get in trouble. I mean, we. We dug around in the bowels of a lot of interesting hotels in our childhood.

[Pashi]

You know, when you're on the river, like, you. Are you intense just on the side of the river?

[John Gilroy]

No, amazingly enough, there's no tents. You're sleeping out, there's no tents. And there was no rain. Except for. Except for. For one night. There was, like, rain one night and. Tony. Tony, you can tell the tent story. The infamous tent story.

[Tony Gilroy]

Like, there's beaches. There's beautiful sandy beaches. It's not all sheer rock wall. There's all kinds of different things. So you get to these places and they make these amazing meals at night. You know, they have.

[John Gilroy]

It was proto glamping.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah. And so one night it's raining or going to rain. So Frank's is in frickin. World War II and it's 1970. It's not that long ago. And like I went to camp for a bunch of years and did camp craft and everything. We have a tent. Oh my God. It was the saddest. We had a big fight. He was the most.

[Dan Gilroy]

It was like multiple fights.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah. So also promise. My father never did his laundry in his whole life. He was really hapless when it came to sleep.

[Dan Gilroy]

You couldn't sleep in the tent when it was done. I remember we didn't sleep in the tent.

[John Gilroy]

Well, wait a minute. The tent. When the tent was actually strung and we took. I think there's a picture of it somewhere.

[Tony Gilroy]

Somewhere.

[John Gilroy]

The actual. It's a little teepee like a tent. It's actually about 6 inches off the ground. Like that's, that's. That's it. That's our tent. After like an hour and a half of screaming and ropes and move it that way and move it that way. It was. It was pathetic.

[Dan Gilroy]

But like when you'd go down the river until like 4 o' clock in the afternoon and then they'd stop and they'd pull over and then you could do whatever you want. So like, I like to climb. And you're looking up at this rim with all these trails going up. And the guy made the mistake of saying there was some Native American, like ruins up there somewhere. So I wanted to go up and this other kid decided to go with me. And I'm a pretty good climber. And we went up. Took like 45 minutes, an hour. We're. I don't know, we're not up by the rim by any stretch, but we're up very high. Found these Native American things. And now I don't know how much you climb, but going up is a lot easier than coming down. I. I was starting to come down and this kid froze up and got stuck up there. So I had to climb down. It was getting dark. When I got down there. They all the, the whatever the three adults were, they had to go up there with flashlights till like 8 o' clock to get this kid down. They never found him.

[John Gilroy]

They never, they never.

[Dan Gilroy]

He's still up there.

[Tony Gilroy]

Somehow he's skipping. He's also skipping the part that like about an hour into this, everyone's like, oh my God, we're missing these two kids. And nobody checked in. And where are they? No one knows where they are. So there's a panic, you know, like. But it was the age of free range, man. Nobody was paying attention.

[Dan Gilroy]

No air Tags on your kids?

[Sufi]

No. So when you're sitting around end of a rafting day campfire, I'm assuming, or some version of that, like, what's your dad's vibe when he's got his three kids? Was he. I mean, obviously he's a writer. Was he a storyteller? Was he.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, definitely he was.

[Dan Gilroy]

He used to tell he's a really good father.

[Tony Gilroy]

He was a great father.

[John Gilroy]

He had a great dad.

[Tony Gilroy]

He was a great hang. He was a great hang.

[Sufi]

Did he live long enough to see that this is what you all ended up doing?

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, he did. Oh, yeah, he died about what is five, six years ago? I've lost track.

[Sufi]

Oh, all right. So, yeah, he saw.

[Dan Gilroy]

He saw the full 2015.

[John Gilroy]

I think he passed.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, he saw everything now.

[Dan Gilroy]

And our mom passed away last year.

[Tony Gilroy]

She passed away last year in August. Yeah, in August.

[Sufi]

Oh, wow. That's quite a life.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, they both lived a good amount of time, but he was a great. He was a great dad. I mean, and he was always there when you needed. He had great. Always gave you great advice. He would distill a problem down to like Moses telling you like one sentence and you go like, oh, yeah, okay, that means that I should do this. You know, he was very smart, very wise.

[Tony Gilroy]

He really loved the job. He loved that job.

[Dan Gilroy]

He was a writer to his core. He was writing up until a week. A week until he died. He was writing.

[Sufi]

How was he? Did he give good feedback when you started writing?

[Dan Gilroy]

Sometimes Tony and I started doing action movies and franchises and other things. And he would always go, well, this isn't something I would ever watch. But he commented on that level.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, I don't think the Nepo thing is what people think it is.

[Sufi]

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, it also doesn't seem like you directly followed in any way shape or not.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, but I mean, I think it. I mean, I think it's a legit thing. I just think they'd misinterpret what the real value is. The vat. He doesn't teach you how to write or anything. Never. But, like, when you become a writer, the life makes sense.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

You know, you. You understand the rhythm of it and you. That, like, all the things that make sense about it are normal to you. I think that's the big advantage. He made it. He made it. He made it look exactly like what it was, good and bad. He really made sure that we. And there was a lot of bad. And he made sure that we fully absorbed or at Least I did. He made sure that we fully absorbed. The downside of. He wanted to make sure that when he had his teeth kicked in, you understood that that had happened.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah. I mean, look, Variety newspaper was in that house as long as I can remember. And my memory of growing up a lot was Frank was doing plays. And if you know anything about Broadway, which you guys do, is there's an opening night. And back then, it really, I mean, hinged dramatically on the New York Times. So I have memories of, like, three nights at Sardi's upstairs, and everybody's going like, oh, the play went well, and somebody sneaks out and gets the fucking New York Times. And a couple times those reviews were bad. And those were searing memories. To see your father just kind of like, you know, excoriating you, you know, for God knows what.

[Tony Gilroy]

And I walked with my dad one night in, like, February or March, freezing cold. I was designated to take him. He had to leave the Sardis, and the play was going to close the next day. And it was just like. And I went and walked through Times Square with him for an hour and a half. Like, in the cold. Never said a word. Just walked. It was just literally like, my mother's like, you have to go with him. Don't let him be by himself and just babysit him. And, yeah, man. I mean, but that's really good parenting.

[Sufi]

I think it's very interesting how your instinct might be to do the opposite. And I think you're totally right. Like, letting kids know that it's not easy out there. How old were you when you went on that walk with him, Tony?

[Tony Gilroy]

I was probably. John, that was. I was probably 15 or 16 years old at that point.

[Pashi]

I do love Sardis.

[Tony Gilroy]

God, I wish someone would fix it.

[Pashi]

I was talking about Sardis two days ago.

[Dan Gilroy]

The Canola.

[Tony Gilroy]

Whole childhood was. Was in Sardis. He was the Lord of Sardis because the Dramatist Guild was next door. And he became the president of the Dramatist Guild, which had been this stuffy organization. And then they had this new, young, vibrant, hip playwright. And he's like, okay, we're putting a pool table in. We're turning it into a club. And he had all these grand ideas.

[Dan Gilroy]

He liked to play.

[Tony Gilroy]

And, I mean, I don't have much time, but one of his grand ideas basically started a feud with the New York Times. That's really. I don't know how much was paranoia and how much was real, but he started a feud with Gelb when he was president of the Dramatist Guild. The New York Times could make or break every single play. And so he tried to institute a policy where the Dramatist Guild would rent, buy another half a page in the New York Times and randomly let reviewers review it to counter program so that there wouldn't just be one review. And the New York Times was actually in the beginning, really sympathetic to that idea because they were uncomfortable with the power that they had accrued.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

Really into the idea until the last minute. And then they went, no. And he pushed it. And then he published his correspondence with them. And the dramas do it quarterly.

[Dan Gilroy]

He didn't get reviews in New York Times after that.

[Tony Gilroy]

He never got a good review after that?

[Dan Gilroy]

No.

[Sufi]

Oh, man.

[Dan Gilroy]

Matter of fact, they gave him a fucking bad. They gave him a bad fucking review in his obit.

[Tony Gilroy]

They gave him a shit. Really?

[Dan Gilroy]

They literally commented on his work and his freaking obit.

[Tony Gilroy]

It was like, no, I really. It's hard not to. I try not to carry it for. But they really shit on him in the obit. And you kind of go like, wow. Is it really is the institution that have that long of a memory? But he was that guy. That was who he was.

[Sufi]

Yeah. Wow.

[Pashi]

Well, I mean, there's something to be said. It's almost a feather in your cap. I feel like if a news organization decides to take a swing at you on your way out.

[Tony Gilroy]

He never been treated really nicely lately, so I don't really like.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[John Gilroy]

You don't want to rock the boat, man.

[Sufi]

He was my dad. Name only.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Pashi]

Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors.

[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

Nor do people wanna carry cash around.

[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

And you actually go see so many movies and probably have so many friends sending you money for tickets you've bought. The Cash app probably at some point is like, FYI, this guy might be a scammer. And then your friends are like, no, that's Poshe. He does actually see this many movies. And also you can spice up your payments. Custom text, stamps, backgrounds. Because why should be paying why should paying Poshe or me be boring?

[Pashi]

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[Sufi]

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[Pashi]

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[Dan Gilroy]

There was only one living grandparent when we were born for Johnny and I.

[Pashi]

Okay.

[Dan Gilroy]

My father's father died in his 50s. His mother died in her 50s. My father's father unfortunately was an alcoholic. My mother's father died when he was young. My mother's mother was alive still, but she.

[Tony Gilroy]

But she spoke very little English.

[Dan Gilroy]

Very. She was Hungarian. My memory is like she was in a wheelchair and she just seemed ancient from the moment I met her. Probably not true, but I don't know.

[Sufi]

Yeah, that's how I feel about dad's parents is they were just like always. They were immediately the oldest people I felt like I was ever right.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, yeah, they were. Yeah.

[Sufi]

Tony, do you feel like your parents were harder on you being the oldest?

[Tony Gilroy]

No, I think. No, there was no hard. I think the weird part of our life is that they were nothing but encouraging all the time. And we did have an extraordinary amount of freedom and the monkey business that we got into of every variety was forgiven or never seen or. And there were, there was.

[Dan Gilroy]

Look, the period we grew up in was a tumultuous period. I mean, honestly, I got high the first time probably in sixth or seventh grade. I mean there was a lot of shit going on and Tony was ahead of us by three years. Tony was challenging my parents on every parental level. You could do it. I mean really, really serious. Like calls him to school, he's going to throw him out. And just Tony was. Tony, you were 14, you had a 17 year old girlfriend or something. I mean, there's a lot of shit going on, but they dealt with it. They dealt with it I think as well as you could deal with it. And they didn't turn it into like severing a bond. Somehow it all stayed together, you know, it just stayed together.

[Pashi]

Did any of you ever date an au pair?

[Dan Gilroy]

Tone.

[Tony Gilroy]

Really close. What do you mean, date? There was no.

[Pashi]

Well, yeah. Did you ever get frisky with an au pair?

[Dan Gilroy]

Well, you'd have to have a legal definition.

[John Gilroy]

We were too young for that.

[Dan Gilroy]

Maybe.

[Tony Gilroy]

Really close.

[Sufi]

Really close.

[Tony Gilroy]

Really close.

[Pashi]

Any highlights from the two months in Europe? Any standout?

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that's the year before the.

[Dan Gilroy]

Well, just as an example of his extravagance, we went across on the SS United States in staterooms. We checked into the Savoy Hotel for like a week. And in the Savoy Hotel, it was the same week that we landed on the moon. There was a ticker tape downstairs, like, telling me about the moon. But I remember getting into an elevator with my dad and a white haired guy got on the elevator and he went up three floors with us. He actually said hello to me, gets off the elevator, the door closed. My father says, remember this moment. You don't know who that is, but that was Charlie Chaplin. And it was like, wow. So like, I was. Anyway. But then from there, I think we went to the Georges Sank for a week. And then we went to Italy to these. Like, we had a house.

[John Gilroy]

We had a house for a month.

[Dan Gilroy]

Extravagant luxury, you know.

[Tony Gilroy]

But he. He had another screenwriter. There were two screenwriters, and they were just. Man, they were hitting it. And like, it was really nouveau riche. I mean, they really were like, man, I got money now and let's blow it now.

[Dan Gilroy]

Exactly.

[Pashi]

Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

And then, like, you know, I'm gonna tell you, like, by the time you get to. I mean, 75, 76, there's times where he's checking into the Beverly Hills Hotel or he doesn't have. The concierge is putting him on the arm and letting him stay there until he gets a gig. I mean, he will run. He will earn and run and earn and run. And it's, you know, that's who he was. So. But not one person that we knew growing up, I can think of, really. I mean, I don't know, maybe some girls or maybe Cheryl and those people in there. But, like, nobody knew what we were doing. When we went to Europe, we just disappeared. And when we came back, we reappeared. We were.

[Pashi]

You weren't doing slideshows when you got.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, my God. Yeah. I want you to know, I was in Puerto Aircoli for a month.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, I can remember we're like at Lake Como or Lake Maggiore at this incredible pool. And it's like the dinners and. And. And then. And then where were we? Porto Ercole. Ana. We were.

[Tony Gilroy]

Whatever. And then the next summer we're working. You know, I'm working as a plumber's apprentice. Johnny's working landscape.

[Dan Gilroy]

I was in the garage.

[Tony Gilroy]

You know, I mean, you're like, we.

[Dan Gilroy]

Like, we worked.

[Tony Gilroy]

It was more important for us to fit in where we grew up than anything else, I think.

[Dan Gilroy]

And that's actually important. We worked. There was never any expectation that when we got out of high school that we would ever get any money for them. They never said, we're not gonna support you. But it was never. It never would have occurred to us.

[Tony Gilroy]

To sort of like.

[John Gilroy]

He said it outright. He said. He goes, I'm spending your inheritance right now.

[Dan Gilroy]

I moved to New York City and I was living on tuna fish sandwiches and, like, tacos for, like, five years. Cause I had no money. But I would never think of, like, hitting them up for money.

[Tony Gilroy]

That's never occurred to me. We always, like.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, always worked.

[Tony Gilroy]

I always had a job from, like. I found a bank book at my mother's house after she died. Like, I'm like 13 and I have, like. You know, I have my bank book because I'm working, like, two different jobs. We always had jobs. There was always work. Laboring work at the gas station or promo's apprentice or laboring work or.

[Dan Gilroy]

How long were you a bartender for New York?

[Tony Gilroy]

That's later on. That's much later on.

[Dan Gilroy]

But wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[John Gilroy]

When Tony was 13, was a bartender for a guy.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, not 13. Not 13. 14, 15.

[Sufi]

Still too young. Go ahead.

[Pashi]

Where, Wait, where were you a bartender at 15?

[Tony Gilroy]

At the Rogue Lounge in Florida. New York.

[Pashi]

Okay.

[Tony Gilroy]

Because I was already playing in a band that was playing there. And the guy was blind, who owned it. And he thought if I was old enough to be there, I could open up on Sunday mornings. So I used to go to this bar. I was 15, 16 years old, and I used to open up the bar in the morning.

[Sufi]

When was the first person showing up at that bar for a drink on a Sunday morning?

[Tony Gilroy]

Man, this is gonna sound like some sort of bull. This is gonna sound like bullshit. But Florida, New York, you could look it up. Was the only place there was a tattoo parlor. This is 19. This is. This is 72. 72, 73. There's a tattoo parlor there. It's the only place that it, like, for a thousand miles, you could get a tattoo. There's a tattoo parlor. There's a hotel, a fleabag shit hotel. And there's the Rogue Lounge. And bikers used to come from Pennsylvania and Florida. And all these different places, they would come up, they would check into this shitty hotel, and they would go to this tattooist for days on end to get big back pieces because it would take days and days to do them. They'd eat Quaaludes, and you would run drinks, Tequila sunrises underneath, through the basement under the hotel into the tattoo parlor. I mean, I did that before I was 17.

[Dan Gilroy]

Mom and dad let you do that. They knew what you were doing.

[Tony Gilroy]

I knew what I was doing.

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, yeah. Mom said that one of you asked for a shot glass, and she gave me a shot because the bar didn't have a shot glass or something.

[Tony Gilroy]

I was like, oh, my God. I mean, I know that that really happened. It was really true. And the guy was so cool in the tattoo parlor. He said, I know how old you are. He goes, at the end of the summer, he goes, all your friends are gonna have tattoos. Cause all my friends were older. He goes, they're all gonna have tattoos. And they did. Every girl had a strawberry on her ass or somebody got something. He goes, I'm not gonna give you a tattoo. He goes, if you keep your mouth shut, we don't get any trouble. At the end of the summer, I'll pierce your ear. And at the end of the summer, I pierced my ear. I had a pierced ear when I was 16 years old. Oh, my God. I don't know how we lived. I don't know how we survived, but we did.

[Sufi]

I mean, I guess there's something to, you know, a writer's letting his children live their own lives. You know, it makes sense.

[Tony Gilroy]

I don't know. I don't know how much was intentional. What do you think? I don't know.

[Dan Gilroy]

No, they were doing the best they could. If they knew another way, they might have done it. But I'll tell you one thing, it made you resilient. It was like things would come at you and you would fuck up and you'd get hurt, maybe in some ways, or get in trouble, and you'd go like, okay. That's what that's like. I know how not to get in trouble now. Or if I get in trouble, I can go through it. You know, it's like. It toughens you up, is what it does.

[John Gilroy]

It's good to solve your own problems. And they let us. They gave us a lot of lead.

[Dan Gilroy]

To do that with the help of some lawyers.

[Tony Gilroy]

But we really. I mean, we were very, very. Also very lucky. Like, physically. Yeah, really lucky. Physically lucky.

[Sufi]

At the same time, I think it probably. You're all parents, correct?

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

Did you parent the same way? Did you give your kids the same freedom?

[Tony Gilroy]

No. Fuck, no.

[John Gilroy]

No, I don't. I think culturally, there was no such thing as a play date when we were kids.

[Sufi]

Yeah, right.

[John Gilroy]

And when my kids were born, play date, they're like. Like, that was the thing. So you had to make a date with another kid?

[Sufi]

Yeah, we did.

[John Gilroy]

There was nothing like that when we were kids.

[Dan Gilroy]

And.

[John Gilroy]

But, But. But with my kids, that's just what people were doing.

[Sufi]

And I guess it goes back to what you were saying about, like, when you were growing up, you were trying to fit in to the, you know, the cultural place you were at the time. And I think some. To some degree, you do that as parents, too. Like, you can't parent like it's 1970.

[Dan Gilroy]

I raised my daughter in Brentwood. I mean, it's like, try to be reckless with your kid in Brentwood, you'll get arrested. Jesus Christ.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah. I mean, there was no framework. And to be honest with you, I was jealous of my son growing up.

[Dan Gilroy]

Really?

[Tony Gilroy]

Like.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

And I thought because part of the. And part of the problem of the way we grew up was that there was no opportunity, like, you couldn't. There was no path to popularity that let you be good in school, you know?

[Dan Gilroy]

What do you mean?

[Tony Gilroy]

Well, like, doing well in school was the kiss of death, and it was far more important for me to be part of the tribe than it was to do well. So I really. And when I went to college for two years, I got into BU on the last minute and I went there, but, like, when I got there, it was like, it was the first place I'd ever been where you could, like, do well and be accepted, and I really liked that. I dropped out of school because I was too busy, but my son was in such a. My son and daughter were in such a. An intelligent, rewarding, you know, environment. I was like, there's times in my son's childhood I was like, well, what would my life have been like if I'd grown up this way?

[Dan Gilroy]

But you learn different things. There's. There's stuff you learn in school, and then there's stuff you learn in life. I'd be honest. I wouldn't have traded what I learned, meaning, by going to a public school and getting a good. A really good public education in New York State. It was a really good education for, you know, for public school. But. But I love what I learned.

[Tony Gilroy]

I had to learn everything myself. I had to teach myself everything.

[Sufi]

Yeah, I. I just Wouldn't even trust your son to make me a tequila sunrise, Tony.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, right.

[Sufi]

By the way, I will say it's been forever, but you said it, and I was like, oh, you know what?

[Dan Gilroy]

You gotta feel good.

[Tony Gilroy]

You gotta put on Dark side of the Moon, get a jukebox and have.

[Dan Gilroy]

A tequila sunrise, and then watch Tequila sunrise afterward.

[Sufi]

Mel, you know what? The next, when I decide to get that back tattoo, I'm gonna have a tequila sunrise.

[Dan Gilroy]

There you go.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, God. You know, Jesus on his motorcycle.

[Sufi]

100%. I mean, words right out of my mouth. Well, this is. I mean, just truly fantastic to talk to the three of you. Thank you for coming prepared with the story as well. Excellent work. Obviously, it's very clear that you're two writers and an editor. Not a lot of people.

[Dan Gilroy]

We normally take 12 hours to tell a story, so this one, we actually had to compress everything.

[Tony Gilroy]

Do people show up with nothing?

[Sufi]

Sometimes people show up and they open by being like, we didn't really go on trips. And then Josh and I, you know, we get. We dig down.

[Dan Gilroy]

Wow. Yeah, that's funny.

[Pashi]

And then our father will be like, why are they even on?

[Sufi]

Yeah. Again, while you were talking about a supportive father, like, our dad listens to every episode of this, and he has a lot of notes about the guests. I think he's gonna. I think he's gonna be very fond of the Gil boys.

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Sufi]

But we have questions for you before you go. This is the speed round. You each have to answer each question.

[Pashi]

Okay, we'll go around the horn here. You can only pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational?

[Dan Gilroy]

I don't like to take vacations. And I envy people who are working that I see when I go on vacation. So I don't like them.

[Sufi]

John.

[John Gilroy]

Adventurous. I like adventurous vacations.

[Pashi]

And, Tony.

[Tony Gilroy]

I like to relax when I go on vacation.

[Pashi]

Okay, let's keep this order. I think it's a good one. What is your favorite means of transportation?

[Dan Gilroy]

Motorcycle, John.

[John Gilroy]

Airplane.

[Pashi]

Beautiful. Tony.

[Tony Gilroy]

Bicycle.

[Pashi]

Lovely. Getting a little trickier. If you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, other than your own family, what. What family would you like to take a trip with?

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, my God. Go ahead, Danny. I need a minute.

[Dan Gilroy]

I want to go to Jerusalem with Jesus and Mary.

[Pashi]

Okay.

[John Gilroy]

Hell, that was. That was my answer. He just took my answer.

[Pashi]

Well, I mean, twins. So you're gonna go with that too, then, John?

[John Gilroy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus and Mary. Come on. And Joseph. I'll touch.

[Sufi]

Oh, that's nice. Joseph. Never It's. Everybody forgets about that. Yeah, I want to, because it's awkward. Let's be honest. You want to talk about an awkward dynamic?

[Pashi]

Tony, what did you.

[Sufi]

So you're the dad? So you're the dad?

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, God. Yeah. I don't. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

I want to go with the Allman.

[Tony Gilroy]

Brothers to six over Georgia.

[Sufi]

I don't know.

[John Gilroy]

That's really good. The Allman Brothers to Six Flags is really good. That's good.

[Pashi]

If you had to be stranded on it. This one's going to get tricky with three brothers. If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be?

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, my God. I would be stranded on an island with my. My dog Sprout.

[Sufi]

Okay, great.

[Pashi]

All right, great. Sprout makes the cut.

[John Gilroy]

John, I have two daughters. I can't really. How do I answer that question? Just get out. Get out of there. Get out of there. One person. I don't know, living or dead or what?

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, you can be family member. Oh, you can be mom or dad.

[John Gilroy]

I haven't seen my dad for a while. I beat my dad, Frank.

[Tony Gilroy]

All right, I'm gonna pick Johnny. Cause he and I would have the best chance of getting off the fucking island.

[Sufi]

Yeah, a lot of people think ahead.

[John Gilroy]

Thank you, dude. But that's probably true.

[Dan Gilroy]

That might be true.

[John Gilroy]

That's probably true.

[Sufi]

And Dan, you agree you'd be useless in that situation?

[Dan Gilroy]

Oh, no, I wouldn't be useless. But I might become distract. Attracted with the trees and stuff, and I actually like it and not want to leave.

[Pashi]

Did you guys call your father Frank when he was alive? Did you call him Frank to us?

[Tony Gilroy]

Yeah, I work.

[John Gilroy]

I work with my dad, so I. Yeah, you call him Frank because it's just what you do, you know, at work.

[Tony Gilroy]

But.

[John Gilroy]

But he was dad early on, you know?

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

The kids call him Paco. Paco is what they call him.

[Sufi]

Oh, that's great. Your kids called him Paco.

[Dan Gilroy]

Yeah, all the grandkids did.

[Sufi]

We have this great thing with our parents, which is that when my first was born, he couldn't say grandparent and he said Ponca. And so they, to this day, Ponca. Everybody thinks it's like some Eastern European word for grandfather and it's just a misspeaking. But, like. So our parents are the Poncas.

[Tony Gilroy]

That's correct.

[Pashi]

Yeah. And Seth, you often have called me Paco. And we had a grandfather that we called Frank.

[Sufi]

There you go.

[John Gilroy]

Wow.

[Pashi]

Yeah. What's the hometown? What do you consider your hometown? From Growing up Monroe, New York.

[Dan Gilroy]

We're Blooming Grove, South. Blooming Grove, New York.

[John Gilroy]

We lived in Blooming Grove. We lived in Blooming Grove. Yeah.

[Pashi]

Would you recommend Blooming Grove as a vacation destination?

[Dan Gilroy]

There's parts of Blooming Grove that are very beautiful. They really are Hudson Valley, particularly in the fall. It's gorgeous.

[Sufi]

I think Hudson Valley is. Yeah, that's a great vacation.

[Pashi]

And then, I mean, Seth has our classic.

[Sufi]

I have our last question, but you guys answered it. We always end with, have you been to the Grand Canyon? We know the answer is yes. And the follow up is, was it worth it? Yeah, that's the last question. Every episode we ask the guests, have you been to the Grand Canyon?

[Tony Gilroy]

What do we win?

[Dan Gilroy]

Do we win something?

[Sufi]

Do we? Well, you do. You answered the last question in the very beginning.

[Tony Gilroy]

I've never listened to the end of the podcast.

[John Gilroy]

Oh, that's damming. That's stamming.

[Tony Gilroy]

I've heard that.

[Sufi]

I've also never listened to the beginning, but I love the movie.

[Tony Gilroy]

No, I'm kidding you. Wow, that's fantastic.

[Sufi]

Yeah.

[Pashi]

So well done.

[Sufi]

The follow up is was it worth it? And I feel like we know the answer to that as well.

[Dan Gilroy]

It was definitely worth it.

[John Gilroy]

We lived through it. Yep.

[Sufi]

I mean, I'm gonna just say it one more time. Cause I've been banging the drum for this show since I first saw it andor you know, and again, as a Star wars fan, when the later Star wars stuff came out, I had this moment of like, oh, I think I've outgrown this. I think it's great for kids. I'm glad they're still making Star wars stuff. And then Andor showed up and I was like, oh, my God, this is so thrilling and exciting and bravo all around.

[Tony Gilroy]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Dan Gilroy]

This was fun. We had a good time.

[Tony Gilroy]

Bro down.

[Sufi]

Bro down. And congrats on the Knicks, Tony.

[Tony Gilroy]

Oh, my God, man. Holy cow. Who are you rooting for now?

[Sufi]

You know, I'm rooting for the Knicks. My kids are soft enough Knick fans growing up here. And by the way, New York City's better when the Knicks are winning. Come on, Knicks.

[Tony Gilroy]

It's great. But also, I went to an Indiana game this year. I think the Indiana series is going to be just dynamite.

[Sufi]

Well, the funny thing is there's, you know, the Knicks and the Celtics don't actually have that much history for two teams that have been around a long time. Whereas the Knicks and the Pacers, it's a palpable history. It's so exciting. Yeah.

[Dan Gilroy]

There's some history between the Knicks and the Celtics.

[Sufi]

I mean.

[Pashi]

Yeah, this is the first time to like right now. I think so. Yeah.

[Tony Gilroy]

All right.

[Pashi]

It's going to be exciting. I'm looking forward to it. And this was great. Thank you, gentlemen.

[Tony Gilroy]

Thank you, guys.

[Dan Gilroy]

Thank you. It was a lot fun. Take care.

[Pashi]

Bye.

[Dan Gilroy]

So long.

[Pashi]

The Gilroy bros were on a boat down the Grand Canyon they did float careers war pontoons lashed and fully packed and once you start there is no going back from 1 to 10 the rapids run the guy named Buck he.

[Dan Gilroy]

Had a gun.

[Pashi]

The rain came down one night to mimic their descent but none of them could figure out the.

[Tony Gilroy]

Tent.

[Pashi]

Now looking back it is so hard to comprehend the dangers this young family endured this band of brothers on each other could depend and Frank was psyched for Vegas at the end.

[John Gilroy]

Sam.