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- [00:01]
Lexi
We're so done with New Year, new you. This year it's more you on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you.
- [00:13]
Nicole
Know you always like them.
- [00:14]
Lexi
More of you dating with intention because you know what you want and you know what? We love that for you, someone else will too.
- [00:21]
Nicole
Be more you this year and find them on Bumblebee.
- [00:26]
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- [01:36]
Lexi
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the fantasy fangirls podcast where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character themes, theories and more.
- [01:46]
Nicole
I'm Lexi. I'm Nicole and today is a very special episode as we say goodbye to the world of Prythian for now and answer your questions now that we're at the end of this 11 month journey. Me as always, let's jump right into our spoiler warning with this being our final ACOTAR episode. Everything and we mean everything ACOTAR related is on the table. That includes all five books, any bonus chapters, and of course ACOTAR interviews with sjm. Then at the end of this episode, like always, we will head into our Mass Verse Madness segment where we give a big spoiler warning for Sarah J. Maas's other series before answering your ACOTAR questions that do include spoilers for Crescent City and Throne of Glasses.
- [02:25]
Lexi
So with all of that said, have we mentioned that this is the final ACOTAR episode? But if for whatever reason you have not finished the series. Please do that, then come back. We will be here when you're done and then you'll also have our 43 other episodes that you can listen to. That is so much entertainment.
- [02:43]
Nicole
Next up, we of Fantasy Fangirls are adults who say adult things about adult books. In other words, friends, this podcast is.
- [02:50]
Lexi
Rated R. We will be speculating about ACOTAR 6 the next book, which means Asriel, which means what freaky stuff is that Bat Boy into? So please be mindful of little listening ears.
- [03:02]
Nicole
Additionally, we are so excited to see you at upcoming live events. We are partnering with Barnes and Noble for the Onyx Storm Midnight release party on January 20th in Glendale, Colorado.
- [03:12]
Lexi
We have so much in store as podcasting partners at Romanticy bookcon in Los Angeles in February and in Orlando in October.
- [03:19]
Nicole
We'll also be featured guests at Enchanticon in St. Louis, Missouri August 15th through 17th. And we'll be back at the Dragon Gauntlet in Boyne City, Michigan September 12th through 13th.
- [03:31]
Lexi
Links to all of these events and more information are in the show notes.
- [03:35]
Nicole
And lastly, if you are as excited as we are for Onyx Storm and want all of the EMPYREAN content, please check out our website and follow us on social media where we share our schedule, virtual events, theories, lore, guides, recaps and so so so much more.
- [03:49]
Lexi
And now it is time to say goodbye. So long farewell to Prythian for now.
- [03:57]
Nicole
So this Acotar wrap up episode is an ask us Anything style. So we are answering some of the questions our incredible listeners submitted over these past several weeks. You all are amazing. And we ended up receiving more than 300 questions. So we're going to do our best to dive into as many as we can, especially that go into this deep dive journey that we've been on. And since we are answering a lot of questions that multiple people submitted, we're crediting the question to the first person who asked it. In case you're like, wait, I asked that question too.
- [04:25]
Lexi
But before we get started with all the questions, you know that saying New Year, New Me?
- [04:30]
Nicole
Yes, of course.
- [04:32]
Lexi
Well, we know how to get your New Year started off on the right foot. It is with Element.
- [04:37]
Nicole
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- [05:07]
Lexi
Element is a staple in this household. So much so that I literally have a can on my desk right now. Absolutely. My favorite ritual is after a long day we're in winter in Colorado is adding one of the Chocolate Medley flavors into some hot water. It's easy, it's healthy hot chocolate.
- [05:23]
Nicole
My favorite Right now Element is offering a free sample pack with any purchase. That's eight single serving packets for free with any element order. This is such a great way to try eight flavors or share Element with a salty friend. Get yours@drink lmnt.com FFG this deal is only available through our link, so that means you have to go to D R I N K l m n t.com FFG also, be sure to try the new Element sparkling, a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water that Nicole is currently drinking let's kick off.
- [05:58]
Lexi
This final Acotar episode with some theory based questions.
- [06:03]
Nicole
First up from Maddie and actually quite a few other people, what is our favorite crack theory?
- [06:09]
Lexi
I'm going to share something that I've never shared on the podcast before. Are you ready?
- [06:13]
Nicole
Yes.
- [06:14]
Lexi
My favorite crack theory is that Papa Archeron is the king of spices. And what I know it is that the Archeron family business was spice trade in Prythian and it is as good as canon in my head. Now this is my refresher tldr for you. We know that Papa Archeron was a merchant selling all sorts of goods to the continent like spices. What is Valoris known for? Spices. So yes, I do think that Papa Archeron and his ancestors before him traded spices from Valoris to places on the continent like Scathia, which is known for being rich in trade. It is also the region where Vassa rules over who does Pauper Archeron roll into battle with Vassa? Whenever Feyre and Nessa think of spices that immediately connect it to their father and his trade, his office, all that kind of stuff. Even in Acomath Feyre thinks quote so many spices, scents familiar and forgotten from those precious years when I had known the comfort of an invincible father. And bottomless we the Archeron family has had three generations of debt before the debt finally caught up with their family Papa Archeron and they went into poverty. So what if the family started losing their wealth in Valaris when Amarantha took over Prythian? Because when Amarantha took over Prythian. That halted all trade in and out of Valaris, thus making the Archeron family bankrupt. And then that debt caught up with Papa Archeron three generations later. Yes, this does mean that great Grandpa Poppy or Grandpa Archeron didn't live very long. But I don't think that's out of the question. That is my craziest spice crack theory. And it, like I said, it is as good as canon in my head. I just can't wait for it to finally be confirmed because I am so convinced. However, some of my not so Spice Watch crazy theories are. Gwen is a light singer, as we discussed in Silver Flames, episode five at the Bog of Urid. I don't know if this is necessarily a crack theory, because this feels just like it's going to happen. Is Nesta will resurrect the Dusk Court. The Archerons are descendants of the ancient Fae Warrior from the Bone Carver and Acowar. That's another. Like that's just. I feel like that's gonna happen. And of course that Narbonne is gonna come back into play. We're gonna go under the sea at some point.
- [08:31]
Nicole
So these are my favorite crack theories. And real quickly when I say crack theory, I think of ones that have minimal evidence. And it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. But I do find these theories very interesting and kind of out there, but still possible. So not in any particular order, but let's start with this one. Tamlin and Amarantha were mates and Tamlin rejected the bond. This would give extra context to why Amarantha had her on Tamlin. And when Tamlin killed her, he started really spiraling into his own depression. Even though he hated her and would do it again, something in him broke that day and was one more factor in Tamlin's downfall. Starting in Acomaf. Speaking of Tamlin, another one of my crack theories is that he and Cressida of the Summer Court are exes. I had totally forgotten that. And then I was kind of going back through some of the outlines, like refreshing myself, and it's like, oh my gosh, this is one of my favorites.
- [09:20]
Lexi
Forgot about that.
- [09:22]
Nicole
Another crack theory to bring up is that there are two different kinds of mating bonds. One is from the Cauldron, which is more of the who's the best pair for powerful offspring, while the other is from the mother and it is a soul deep connection. Think of what Rhys and Feyre have. I like the idea of this theory because it explains the spectrum of the different Kinds of mating bonds we see. And there's the argument that Elaine and As are mates from the mother, while Elaine and Lucien are mates from the cauldron. That would be quite the take on mating bonds, even though I am a soft shipper for as and Gwen. So I just love the idea of this mating bond. I don't know if it's even feasible. We have not gotten any evidence towards it. But I do love that, like the mother and the cauldron have their own agendas, so to speak. A few rapid fire theories that I actually do think are true. Number one is of course that the Archeron sisters are descendants of High King Fion's wife and queen, who we believe was also directly related to the ancient fey warrior that contained the Weaver and Kosche to their lands, like Nicole was just talking about. Along those same lines, another big theory is that the eight pointed star is directly connected to the eighth territory where the prison now is, which had previously been the Dust Court. And Nesta is destined to resurrect it as a descendant of its original ruler. Another theory is that Ianthe established the Children of the Blessed. This would have happened before she went to the continent, so she's originally behind the cult. Another big one is the onyx monolith at the top of Romiel is strongly connected to the rest of the mass verse. I won't get into details here, but it can like serve as a gate to another realm or it is in and of itself from another world. Another rapid fire theory is that Eris knows more's secret and he is probably gay as well. Oh, and also that Lucian will free Vassa from Koshje's curse and they'll end up together. I will stop there with my theory. Rapid fires. We have so many other questions to get to and I know we'll talk a lot more about theories in the lead up to ACOTAR 6, whenever that is.
- [11:14]
Lexi
I totally forgot about the Ianthe established the Children of the Blessed. I think we talked about that in episode one. Like that is wild.
- [11:23]
Nicole
I literally did did a keyword search on all of our outlines because in each book they're all in one doc. And I literally did theory search for all of them to like just refresh my memory because it's been a minute since we talked about some of these from Katherine.
- [11:37]
Lexi
Next question. Do you think that Tamlin will get a redemption arc? I'm gonna throw. Yes. Ish. I don't think it's going to be a main storyline by any means. I do think that if it is a redemption arc, it will be what I'm gonna call, like, a sacrificial redemption arc where he doesn't come out of said arc alive. That way, it makes space for Elain to take over the Spring Court because I absolutely see the land choosing her as high lady after he dies. However, I'm gonna put a big asterisk here, and the reason I say ish is because I really struggle with wanting him to have a redemption arc. Do I think it makes sense for the story? Yes. But me as a reader, I'm like. Because we had closure with Tamlin, we had the I hope you find happiness moment with Feyre, and that's honestly all I needed. He is someone who is so de. Deeply broken and has many of his own issues that he needs to figure out. And again, this is like, me as a reader versus me as, like, looking at the story as a whole. I do not want to see him figure his shit out. Like, I. I have had his closure with him. It's like having closure with an abusive ex. It's like, you can go live your life. I just don't want to see it. And that's exactly how I feel with Tamlin.
- [12:49]
Nicole
Okay, I agree with you, like, 70% here. While I wish the door to the closure we got at the end of Acotar stayed closed, I am in full agreement with you that we did get closure at the end of Acowar. The door is open again. So here we are. I think that Frost and Starlight and Silver Flames are teeing us up for some kind of redemption arc. Tamlin has hit his rock bottom, and it doesn't sit right that that's how things are left off, which automatically makes me believe we will get some kind of redemption arc. Because SJM character journeys, they are never linear. I actually hope he does get one, because now I need that closure again. I felt kind of robbed of it after the journey that we went on with him and Frost and Starlight and Silver FL claims. But I don't think that Tamlin's redemption arc will be a main storyline, and I definitely don't think we'll get his POV if we get more of Lucian in a future book. I could see us getting Tamlin's redemption arc through Lucian's POV because he's the one who's closest to Tamlin. And I say that very subjectively because nobody is close to Tamlin anymore. I do think his redemption arc will be a factor to a bigger plot line or conclusion. Like, if he Sacrifices himself, which I do believe that's how it's going to be. Especially just how bad he is right now. Like, I don't see him finding love and living happily ever after in the Spring Court. He's. I'm not getting that vibe from his story development. But if he sacrifices himself, it opens the door to Elaine taking over the Spring Court, like you were saying. Or if he is able to pull himself together and rule the Spring Court again, it will be consequential for the threat of Baron. Or it'll be good for the mortals because the Spring Court borders their lands. I don't think us readers are going to get. I'll call it a play by play of his healing journey again, even if it's not in his pov. But I do think that he has to. To do something with himself here. Like, this is not the end of his story. Just hitting that rock bottom. That's not very aligned with SJM's storytelling.
- [14:39]
Lexi
I love that you mentioned Baron here because Baron is trying to absorb the Spring Court territory. And I could absolutely see himself doing some kind. I don't love the idea of him sacrificing himself to Baron because Baron's this big bad. I definitely see it more being like Baron connected through Coast J like that style. And I mean, honestly, maybe Tam knows that he's not the right High Lord for the Supreme Court and so he wants it to pass to someone else. That doesn't have to be through death necessarily. I don't know if there is a way that he can pass the High Lordship without dying. So there. There also might be exploring that type of magic within the world. And maybe he just goes off and lives in Manbear pig style in the woods. And he's like, I'm happy doing that for the rest of my life. I'm going to pass the torch to Elaine or someone like that, because I think that they would have the capability to stand up to Baron again against him trying to take over the Supreme Court territory. I don't know. I'm throwing shit at the wall.
- [15:33]
Nicole
I do think that we need something because we did get that closure. And then again that door opened up again. And now it's like, well, wait a second, Wait, what's going on here? And I don't think that it's all for not. All right, so next question is from Lauren. Do you think Nesta could be the Queen of the Valkyrie? So many Queen references. But if she's High Queen, would she be above Feyre and Rhys? So I don't know. That feels kind of weird.
- [15:55]
Lexi
So in our entire Acotar series coverage, there were 20 mentions direct ment mentions of Nesta being tied to Queen. And I love this idea. We've been very open through our 11 month deep dive about her being primed to either be High lady of the resurrected Dusk Court or High Queen of all of Prythian. There is a lot of priming us that her power was is greater than Rhys's and that power is the cauldron itself. So with her being High Queen, I definitely think that's where we're going. But as we know from Amren and Silver Flames quote, I could have done without their foolish king. They're meaning the Valkyries. He is as much to blame for their death as the Illyrians who walked away during that battle. We've speculated that the Valkyries hail from Valhalla on the continent, which is very similar to Norse mythology's Valhalla, which is where the Valkyries from Norse mythology take the dead. If that is the case that they hail from Valhalla, that means the current ruler of Valhalla would I. I mean, I could see there being a storyline where they're wanting to take over the Valkyries reborn and Nesta wants to defend them and ends up being, I'll say elected as Queen of the Valkyries. But she would rule over them. I still think from the Dust Court. There's so many tie ins with her being connected to that land where I don't see that not being part of it. And then the Valkyries would go to the Dusk Court and she would maybe, maybe it's like an all Valkyries court. That would be dope.
- [17:23]
Nicole
So yeah, I agree that the Valkyries are definitely not going to the continent if they do originally hail from there. I think that would be be really strange, especially if you take into account with the priestesses and any of the Illyrians who might be joining the Valkyrie ranks as well. I do love the idea of the Dust Court and her ruling over the Dust Court and the Valkyries calling that place home. And that is how the Queen of the Valkyries could come into play. This would mean that Nesta becomes High lady of the Dust Court and because that territory is already in the Night Court where the Valkyries are reborn, she would establish this as the new home for the Valkyries because it's like, you know, like the neighbor of the Night Court.
- [18:00]
Lexi
Right.
- [18:00]
Nicole
I don't think Queen of Valkyries will be an official title, however, but it will be as if she's their queen. It would be more of like a combined role of being the Valkyrie General, the head Valkyrie and their territory ruler all rolled into one.
- [18:15]
Lexi
I do want to address the second part of this question because Lauren did mention, like, it being a little weird if Nesta is ruling over Rhys and Feyre. And because of how Rhys reacted to Amren pushing him to be High King, he was like, I don't want that. I do not want this. The weapons were even rejecting his magic. We are primed to not see him being in a I need the power situation. So I don't see her ruling over Feyre and Rhys, as I'll call it weird, because they are just so content with their family life in Velaris.
- [18:48]
Nicole
The way I see it is that if Nesta is to become High Queen, there is a whole story we will have to experience for it not to feel weird with not just Rhys and Feyre, but with everybody. Even right now she's like, I have a crown. I'm good. Like, I just want you. Cassian. I do think that there is a whole story that we have to go through where it won't feel abrupt like it does for us right now. So yes, I see the potential of it ultimately not being weird with the twists, turns and character development in the storytelling, but we really have to trust in that storytelling to take us on that journey.
- [19:21]
Lexi
Yes, absolutely. Let's combine several questions into one. What are our thoughts on the next title? Whose POV will it be, and what will Acotar 6 be about?
- [19:32]
Nicole
I'm 99% convinced Shadow will be part of the title, assuming it will have Azriel's pov. If we're right in our speculation that Kosher will be the next big bad villain, then I think that's another nod to Shadows too. I also like to think the title will include something about Elaine too, again, assuming that we'll get her pov. So something like Shadows and Seer. Except I will say that feels a little too on the nose. And SJM's titles are more ambiguous. With the exception of Silverflow.
- [20:00]
Lexi
I definitely see shadows. I'll even throw like dark or darkened or stuff like that. I could see like something like a court of light and shadows. Not only is that a nod to Azriel being Shadows, Elain being light, but also a nod to Azriel and Gwen as well, but also the sun setting when the world is being cast in light and shadows, AKA dusk. So I could see that being a fun play on words there as well. There is also A moment with Brielle, and at the ending, download of Silver Flames, where she says, quote, you are so thoroughly Fae now, Nesta Archeron, you would allow the world to turn to ash and ruin before you let your mate die. And I don't know why this line really stood out to me. If the next book is Nesta's, which we'll get into in a second, I could see Ashen Ruin or something similar being the title. But we've already had a title with Ruin being the last one, so maybe like Ash and Shadow or even Ashen Mountain. I mean, especially if we're leaving into Romiel. Or A Court of Dusk and Shadows. If we're leaning into Nesta, resurrecting the Dust Court. I want to look at this syllabic though, because it's normally a cadence of a court of one syllable, syllable and two syllables. A court of mist and fury, wings and ruin, thorns and roses, et cetera. But Silver Flames didn't have the and in the middle. So if we're continuing with Silver Flames, kind of more the spin off series style, it would be a court of two syllables, one syllable, silver Flames. If that's the case, then I see A Court of Shadowed Light that feels a little on the nose, in my opinion. Or a Court of Darkened Song that feels really appropriate. We're leaning into Gwen's story of Darkened Spring, A Court of Shadowed Spring, something like kind of nodding to Azriel. Annalaine. I think the title is either going to be very on the nose with it being Azriel and Elaine as the main characters, or it will be very ambiguous. So we don't know who it's going to be about. And specifically we will not know who's going to end up with who. Because I want you all to imagine if it is A Court of Shadows and Seer, and then Azriel and Elaine don't end up together. I fear for the fandom.
- [22:04]
Nicole
See, I actually think that could work, because I really do think we are going to get azriel and Elaine's POVs, but it does not mean that they are going to end up as a romantic couple.
- [22:14]
Lexi
I agree.
- [22:14]
Nicole
SJM has said that each of the books will follow different POVs now that we're in kind of like the side stories here. And each of them will also follow a romantic coupling too. So I understand the assumption that if it is in both of their POVs, that automatically means that they are going to end up together. I like the idea of that not necessarily being the case that they do have a romantic relationship, and I've been saying this since the beginning, is that they do have something together, but what they have helps them on their own individual healing journeys that then helps them go out and be with the people who they are meant to be with. For instance, for Azriel, Elaine is one who helps him get over more and helps him kind of understand a little bit more about himself so he is able to go and find that forever love with the right person, like maybe Gwen or for Elaine, for her to be able to have some kind of love of where it is not somebody who she's supposed to be with or somebody who has reducted her or something like that. And it really helps her understand maybe that she's doesn't want to be with anybody and that she goes and does her own thing.
- [23:14]
Lexi
I agree. And where I'm more getting at is the expectations that it gives us as a fandom when we hear a title. I mean Onyx Storm is a perfect example. No spoilers here, but we got the title of Onyx Storm. I think you and I did an hour and a half episode on two words and I see it being very similar with A Court of Blank and Blank or A Court of Blank Blank and and when we get a title we start to get certain expectations on where it's going to go in in the storyline. If the title is heavily leaning into Azriel and Elaine, I worry that the fandom that will get really high expectations that it's Azriel Lane and then if they don't end up together, I worry that some people have their expectations like skewed there and that that would be a disappointment to some people.
- [23:57]
Nicole
I also do see that if we get both of their POV and it like literally just like as we start reading the book, let's say that's when we find out about it. So that's why I do think it would actually be really cool that we do get both of their POVs and they have that journey together and then they go their own ways. So we have many more great questions to get to. But first I have a question for all of you. Did you know that millions of Americans grind or clinch their teeth at night like me, and most don't even know they're doing it. If you have jaw pain or headaches after a night's sleep, there's a high chance you grind or clench your teeth. Teeth grinding, also known as bruxism or tmj is is generally caused by stress and it can cause serious damage Such as eroding away your enamel and broken teeth, which leads to expensive dental bills. The solution to protecting your teeth is a mouth guard. But mouth guards from the dentist can cost you around 500 to 800. The good news is that there's Remy.
- [24:47]
Lexi
Remy makes dental grade professional quality mouth guards without the painful price tag. They're up to 80% cheaper than what you would pay at the dentist. And my personal favorite, it does not require you to visit a dentist. As someone with dental anxiety, this is like, like, oh, thank goodness. Remy's process is simple. They send you an at home impression kit to create molds of your teeth. You send those back to Remy and Remy's dental team will make a custom fit guard and send them right back to you. Remy's guards are so comfortable to wear that most customers forget they're wearing them.
- [25:19]
Nicole
Nicole and I did our impressions together and it's so easy. You just watch a short video that gives you all the instructions. We're also very visual and we went ahead, we did them, we took the picture, we sent it over, they said, yep, you're good. And now we're sending them off back to them. Seriously, everything you need is right there in the Remy box. All the clear instructions and their team is really right there with you every step of the way to make sure that it is absolutely correct for those mouth guards.
- [25:43]
Lexi
Remy is for anyone dealing with nighttime grinding, clenching or jaw pain who wants an affordable solution to protect their smile and say good night to jaw pain and headaches. Head to shopremy.com/fangirls and use code Fangirls to save up to 50%. That's 55.0percent off at shop r e m I.com Fangirls with code Fangirls give your teeth a break without breaking the bank with Remy. Thank you Remy for sponsoring this episode.
- [26:16]
Nicole
So, continuing our conversation about whose POV the next book is going to be, let's dive into Kate's specific question. Who will be the primary character of ACOTAR6 as or Elaine? Or do you think it will be a super split POV like six plus characters like Crescent City 3?
- [26:33]
Lexi
I see this going one of two ways. One is that I'll say five POVs. So Asriel and Elaine as the main POVs, Lucian and Gwen as the supporting POVs and then Nesta's storyline continuation woven in as well. Or and this is the one I am kind of hoping for. It will be almost a tandem timeline where Asriot Elaine story with Lucian and Gwenna supporting is happening. And then a few years later we will get Nessa's story, which will be happening at the same time. Or maybe, heck, maybe it's even Nesta and Mor's story where Mor starts to join training with the Valkyries, and that's how her and Emry meet together. So it's not only Nesta, it's Nesta, Emerie and Mor. So that's the love story in that book. I know I've been pretty open about believing More will have a novella, but I could absolutely see her having one split with Nesta, especially with the connection being the Valkyries. However, I think this will entirely depend on the separation of these two stories. Most Tandem reads that I've read and I haven't read a whole lot of them, so keep that, you know, take that with a grain of salt. Is the book. The two stories that are happening in tandem are happening in different areas of the world. And right now, at least as far as we know, all parties are in Valaris. Obviously, yes, More is back and forth on the continent, but we do know that that's not a forever thing. And of course Lucian is jumping back and forth between the Humans, the Human Realm, Valaris and the Spring Court as well. But maybe Asriel, Elaine, Lucian and Gwen, maybe they have to go to the continent to deal with Host J. Or maybe Romiel, especially if they're going to go looking under it. I'll get to that in a second. The main reason I'm really hoping for a tandem is because I worry where it gets five plus POVs, it can get really crowded, and that's just not my favorite way to absorb stories, as I've learned.
- [28:17]
Nicole
Yes, I'm right there with you, where we've talked openly about how there are just so many different loose ends and different storylines that do need to be explored. And it's this big question of, like, how in the world is all of that going to fit in the next book? And I think that the answer is it's not. And I'm actually very grateful for that. Yes, we will have to wait a little bit longer, a lot longer, for some of our favorite storylines, but I do want to give some of these room to breathe and really be able to open up and go on these journeys with whichever characters they are. Addressing Kate's question about who specifically will be the main character, the main POV in the next book. For instance, in Silver Flames, it was definitely Nesta taking the lead with Cassian as the supporting POV character. I think that in this next One, it will be Azriel as the main POV and Elaine as a supporting character. So it'll be a switch between the Archeron sisters and the Bat Boys for this next one. So all this brings us back to the question about what the next book will be about.
- [29:12]
Lexi
I think we can absolutely count on number One Coast Day being the Big Bad and the looming war with Baron and that will drive them to work together. I also, I think I'm willing to die on this hill. Baron will not survive the next book. Eris is going to kill him.
- [29:26]
Nicole
Agree. And I think we're also both in agreement that it will be a blood duel based on that little teaser that we got from Azrael's bonus chapter there. I also do believe that with Kosh Day, Lucian will break Vassa's curse. And I think that we are going to get a lot more unrest from the continent. There has been a lot prime for us. And I do think that Kosj will be a big bad villain who has Baron on the Prythian side and then he really rallies the allies for the continent and our crew is in deep, deep trouble. And therefore they need to band together potentially under one particular high ruler. And that is how they will all go to each other.
- [30:01]
Lexi
And you think that would all happen in the next book or do you think that would be split between the next, like two books?
- [30:05]
Nicole
I think it could all happen in the next book because Silver Flames was very much a tee up for the looming war.
- [30:11]
Lexi
I do wonder then, in that case, if Kostj is, I'm going to say, dealt with in the next book, who would be the overall big bad villain? Because we know there's at least two more full books and one more novella. That's where I get into, I think the big bad ending villain, like the final boss, I think it's gonna be the Daglan.
- [30:28]
Nicole
I could see it being the Daglan. I could see a Daglan being under Romul even. I don't think that Kosher is going to be defeated in this next book, though. I think that he has been built up so much over the past several books that for him to kind of have his spotlight and then die, it's not. Not possible. But I do think it will be kind of him getting to the height of his power in this next book. Again, I'm kind of thinking a little bit like a math style with the King of Hybern. And then an AC war is when it was really the big problem. I could see this being him almost like the book ending with him getting a big benefit, where he does see success. And then the following book is when our crew really has to defeat him.
- [31:11]
Lexi
Oh, I really like that. I like that a lot. Yes.
- [31:15]
Nicole
Like, the end of the book could be, again, just assuming that Nesta does become High Queen. It's like the end of the book, she is crowned High Queen, and then the following book is when they really go head to head with Kosher. The continent kind of.
- [31:27]
Lexi
I mean, like, not to make it like history is repeating itself, but kind of like the end of Acomaf with Feyre being made High lady. And then. But now it's just on a whole different level. I could definitely see that Again, a.
- [31:39]
Nicole
Lot of this, too. Like, I can't stop thinking about Game of Thrones too, where. Where people are crowned, you know, a king or something like that at the end of one season. And then the following season is then when the enemy forces go up against each other.
- [31:50]
Lexi
Yeah, absolutely. So, secondly, I think we are both in agreement that Romiel is going to play a huge, huge role in the next book. And specifically, we are going underneath Ramiel. We probably will find that palace. And we. We say palace loosely. Like, we're. We're not saying like palace like da, da, da, da, da. Like palace, like tunnels. And there's definitely carvings underneath Romiel. We know that each of the sacred mountains in Prythian have one of these, but the Illyrians never looked under Romiel. So I definitely think we're going to do that. I think there's going to be some tie back with the black box that Elaine saw in her vision in Acavor, especially if we're sticking with our Son of a Pine Tree connection.
- [32:28]
Nicole
I just had an idea because there could be the whole issue about how in the world do you get under Romiel? What if the onyx monolith, because it takes you to where you need to go. What if they have to go up Romul again, touch the monolith, and then that sends them underneath Romul and it's based on their need there. Ooh.
- [32:45]
Lexi
And like, I could see that being like an Asriel and Elaine storyline where they have to go and do it together. Absolutely. And I think that would give. Give them the romantic tension that they need to figure their shit out, whether they end it together or whether they end it being apart. I think that that would really be the force. Proximity. I'm going to put a huge asterisk with this, though, because as we saw from Rhys in the Bonus chapter. I hate saying it like this. I don't know if he'll allow this joint venture to go on. So maybe it'll be behind his back.
- [33:14]
Nicole
Well, I mean, I know that Azriel could technically just fly up to the mountain, but I think it would also be really symbolic if he and Gwen. If Gwen somehow found her way where she went up Romiel again. Now, I know that they're not technically allowed to be there if it's not the blood, right. So I could do definitely think that Azriel might just fly over it and then, you know, go up to the very top and cheat. Cheat his way there. Kind of like what we saw Cassian doing his flyover, Romiel in Frost and Starlight there. So it is possible.
- [33:40]
Lexi
But yeah, I think we're going to get a little bending of the lore with the blood, right. Only being allowed to be populated in that area of Illyria during the blood. Right. I think we're going to get a little bit of a. Oh, but this is for an important cause, so we're just going to skate over that. And you know what? That's. That's one of those where I'm like, cauldron born. Like, whatever.
- [33:58]
Nicole
Like, that's fine. Yeah.
- [33:59]
Lexi
No matter what. I think we're both in agreement that we are exploring Romiel next book. And I think I will die on the hill.
- [34:05]
Nicole
I. Yes. And I also do believe that it will definitely tie back to Kosche and the continent too. Like you were saying with Elaine and the Black Box and things like that. And that's how all these kind of random storylines will connect together there. One more thing about Romiel is that we know that the Daglan, they drank the magic of the land like wine. And so I think that there could be something underneath Romiel that. Not like a pool of starlight or anything quite like that, but something that was easy for the Daglan to feed off of. And it was like one of the reasons that it's considered the sacred mountain there, too. So I could definitely see something like that and a little bit more of the history about the Daglan coming back there when we're talking about the war. I'll bring this up again here. I think that the next book, it will not have like a full book blown battle sequence like we got in Acowar. But I do think, like I was saying, it'll be the start of another war. I really do think that with this looming war, it will give Nesta a chance with the Valkyries to come through and also Pertheon will unite under one leader. I could also see the return of Drakon and Miriam and hopefully more allies on the continent.
- [35:13]
Lexi
So, yeah, I see this as like the next book as the love story that tee ups the big battle. Like how Acomafe was the love story teeing up to Acavor. I see almost Silver Flames and the next book as the two different Acomaps in the lead up to the big bad ending.
- [35:31]
Nicole
I can see that too. I'll also throw in as well with the Valkyries, where Silver Flames is almost like the very setup for the Valkyries. And then the next book, they'll be really like getting ready for real battle. It won't be just them beginning to train and calling themselves Valkyries, but it will be the Valkyries really truly uniting and becoming their own army, their own force to be reckoned with there. And then the last book will be them truly going to battle.
- [35:58]
Lexi
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, that brings us to number three. This will be Azriel's love story. The reason we're saying Azriel's and not Azriel and Elaine's is because we both have been open about. We think that Elaine might end up flying solo and really stepping into her own. She has been coddled her whole life and I could really see her stepping her her own person and Asriel. This is why we're leaning more into it being Asriel's love story.
- [36:26]
Nicole
I'll also throw in one more thing here with that, is that the Archeron sisters, when they were growing up, it was, you know, Nessa would marry for power and Elaine would marry for love. And then Feyre was just kind of forgotten. And so far it's really been flipped on its head. Feyre got everything. She got the love, she got the money, she got the power. And Nesta, as powerful as Cassian is in his own right, he is a bastard born nobody. So as far Heath considers himself there. So she did not marry for that power, she married for love. And I could really see Elaine not marrying anybody because she chooses not to go that route there when she was always the one who was destined to be the lovesick puppy, so to speak.
- [37:07]
Lexi
Exactly. I also want to throw in because SJM has been open, not confirming, but she has been open knowing that Azriel is a freak in the sheets. And we're about to explore Asriel. And I'm assuming we like we had silver flames. Silver flame. Flames was a spicy meatball. Hello. I see Azriel's story being just as smutty. I see it being just as spicy. I see it being that in a different way because I think we're about to get some freaky shit on the page. So that's another thing that I can almost confirm next book's going to be we're about to go on a journey like I don't know else to say it.
- [37:46]
Nicole
I can see that too and I'll be very interested to see how that goes. Especially if he does end up with Gwen because of her own traumatic history. And it would be her overcoming that and being with somebody who really does love her for who she is, who she feels comfortable with and all of that kind of stuff.
- [38:04]
Lexi
So yeah, I could see that being a beautiful story of someone who is a victim of sexual abuse learning how to trust and fall in love with sex again. Like I think that is a gorgeous story and I think that would be really interesting. I. I would read that absolutely. Number four, I think Cassian, Feyre and Rhys will really be taking ab back seat kind of. More How Rhys and Feyre were in Silver Flames Obviously we have been open. I'm not gonna beat the snail on the head. I do really really really hope they're more three dimensional than they were in our coverage of Silver Flames, but I do not see them being a main pov. I don't see them being on the page very often. And I'll even throw amarant in there as well. Number five. I really think we're gonna get more information about the Fae warrior who imprisoned both Stryga and Kosjay and is said via the bone carver to have descendants in the human realm. AKA I think it's Archer. It's like I think we're going to disc Archerons and their family relation, but I do think it's going to be Nessa story versus Elaine's and Feyre's.
- [39:03]
Nicole
I agree with you. However, I could see this revelation unfolding in two different ways, or potentially even both ways. Number one is Kosche sharing more about the person who did imprison him and we get little nuggets of information that especially when we look at the whole mass verse, we could piece that together and at least as a fandom confirm it, even if they personally do not have that in knowledge yet. Or what I could really see too is if it is Elaine's story, she is a seer and from her POV we do get some kind of reveal about who this Fae warrior is and that they are descendants and it teases up for the plot for Nessa's next book as it explores what this Fate descendant revelation means for their future. So in the next book it's like it's solved and like we get that confirmation. And then in the next book after that is where it really opens up. Okay. What does this mean for the rest of our story?
- [39:57]
Lexi
Okay. I see. I love. Especially if we're looking at this wouldn't necessarily work with the tandem. But if we're looking at like a back to back storyline. So it's like if it's Elaine and Azriel primarily and then immediately goes into a nest of focus store. I totally see that. Yeah.
- [40:15]
Nicole
I really do agree with you that it will primarily be part of Nesta story though. Especially with eight pointed stars and the Dust Court and the prison. And there is just too much Nesta foreshadowing with all of that.
- [40:26]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [40:27]
Nicole
But I think that Elaine will be the one who helps us get the information that then takes Nesta on her journey there. Yes. Number six is. Something has to happen with the Spring Court. We cannot forget about the Spring Court, everybody. I will say this though. If we get another book of Tamlin roaming in beast form and everyone's still worried about Spring but nothing happens again, I don't know how I'll feel about that. Like I said about Tamlin's redemption arc, I believe Tamlin has hit rock bottom to prep for what's next in his story. And the overarching story. Especially if the next book does focus on Elaine. I think we could see the Supreme Court coming back into play with the plot around Baron causing trouble. And rather than it being this looming fear, it's stuff is happening right now and we have to solve it. Last thing I'll throw out for what's next. When will Lucian find out about Helion being his dad?
- [41:16]
Lexi
Never. Everyone else will find out before fucking Lucian will find out anything about his heritage.
- [41:24]
Nicole
I like to think that it will be the next book and it will tie into his storyline with Koshje and Vassa. But I also again, I don't think that it'll be completely solved. And I don't want him to just become the High Lord of Day only because that means that Helion has to go bye bye. And I love Helion too much. Bottom line, there are way too many loose ends that we need tied up for these next several books.
- [41:44]
Lexi
I really want Lucian and Helion to have a mentor mentee relationship.
- [41:48]
Nicole
I would love that. I really do think that that Lucian has spell cleaving abilities. He just doesn't know it yet, and he will need to learn some of those before he is able to break Vasa free and go up against Kosh Day. I don't think there's going to be like a big, big boss battle between him and Coach J, because I don't think Lucian is can win that. But I do think that some spell cleaving is going to come into play somehow, some way.
- [42:13]
Lexi
Next from Abby Is Azriel's POV chapter canon? I'm assuming? Assuming, yes. But it's hard to see how this chapter would have such large implications when it's not included in the book. For instance, how does the necklace come into play when some readers may not know what it is? Maybe I want an excuse to ignore Rhys's bad behavior. You and me both, Abby. So the long story short of this is yes, this bonus chapter is canon and it is a pattern of Sarah J. Maas to have bonus chapters with really, really important info. This happened with almost every one of the bonus chapters in Crescent City 3. No spoilers there, but just it's all of them. This is not the first time we've even seen in Acotar a bonus chapter be referred to in later books. In Acomaf there is a bonus chapter with Nesta and Cassian talking in the human realm. They're flirting together and all that kind of stuff. And this is referenced once or twice in Acowor and then again in Silver Flames. I think we can assume the bonus chapter from Azriel's point of view is absolutely going to be referenced in a future book, especially with him and Gwen's relationship developing that night with the necklace. All that kind of stuff. I've talked about how I do think that Elain is going to see the necklace on Gwen and there will be kind of a that's my present. Like what's that? And also if Azriel gets caught with Elaine again, there could absolutely be a wedge between Rhys and Asriel. As much as I hate that, I definitely see that happening, I do wonder.
- [43:33]
Nicole
If Rhys is going to have a little bit more leniency now that he is not terrified for his mate dying. Because I really do think that in Silver Flames a lot of his behavior could be explained because of his personal distress.
- [43:49]
Lexi
Fair, fair. I would need a through line. I would need him to address it. Because if he just goes like a flip flop without any kind of like, hey, like I'm sorry I did that. Like that that feels not consistent to me and that feels really whiplashy for us as readers or if he does.
- [44:07]
Nicole
Really look at it more from the political ramifications and leaning into that because we have had some listeners reply back to us from our bonus chapter. Really Outlin, I understand why Rhys is this upset about it, and I definitely do understand that perspective because of the political issues that could happen from that. Because Lucian is so central to so many alliances and whatnot, I do think that it would have to be addressed between them being brothers and their own separate relationship there and Rhys just wanting his brother to be happy. Yep, agreed with the question about whether Azriel's bonus chapter is canon. I think that the general rule is if the author author writes it, it's canon. Is it unfortunate that it's a bonus chapter only available in certain stores with certain editions? Yes. And unfortunately that's another reason the publishers want you to buy that book. There's an exclusivity quality to it.
- [44:57]
Lexi
We're going to move into some more Fantasy Fangirls focused questions, but first, Lexi, I gotta get real. Oh, my least favorite part of finishing a beloved series like Acotar is trying to make the impossible decision of what to jump to next. But no one helps me more than Book up of the Month. Book of the Month is more than just a subscription service. They've made it their mission to help readers discover new books that they will love and to promote the work of emerging authors.
- [45:22]
Nicole
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- [45:43]
Lexi
The new year is a perfect time to treat yourself to a subscription and help yourself read more books in 20. Right now you can head over to bookofthemonth.com and snag your first book for a mere five using the code New you. It is such a good deal. We cannot recommend Book of the Month enough. It's not just receiving books, it's the joy of discovery. That's bookofthemonth.com and use code new you to get your first book for $5. And make sure to let the month know that we sent you by selecting Fantasy Fangirls under podcasts in the survey. After picking your book for the next.
- [46:18]
Nicole
Set of questions, we're going to focus more on this Fantasy Fangirls deep dive journey as we reflect on how we've covered the Acotar series. So first up from Stephanie, now that you've deep dived all of the Acotar books, which one is your favorite and why?
- [46:32]
Lexi
I mean, the easy answer here is Acomaf, and it's 100% true. I loved getting to deep dive that love story. But what I'll say was the extra cherry on top was Feyre's journey in that story. Especially when I, like, look back on moments that really stood out to me. I think about when she was bogged down by the titles of Traitor, Whore, Liar, all of those things. And then there was that moment in the Court of Nightmares where she says, quote, and I just became. And she, like, lets go of all the labels that were really bogging her down. Deep diving Feyre, fully accepting herself was a beautiful experience. And that was not what I was expecting to be really touched by when we went into akamaf.
- [47:15]
Nicole
Yes, I feel the exact same on all of those fronts. Yes.
- [47:18]
Lexi
But because saying acomaf full stop is such a boring answer, I'm gonna expand a little bit on, like, my number two, and I'll throw in Acotar book one. I was floored at how many little teeny tiny moments I missed on previous reads. Like, for instance, when Feyre is in dreams and she has, like, the shadows in the background watching her. And how we learn in chapter 54. That' Rhys. Speaking of chapter 54, I remember having chapter 54 literally open the entirety of ACOTAR book one coverage. And I would constantly look back in that chapter like, I'm at this point between you and I together. I'm pretty sure we could recite it from memory. Like, I would not be surprised.
- [47:59]
Nicole
Yes, definitely before the deep dive, I was not the biggest fan of ACOTAR Book 1 until we went under the mountain. At least in comparison comparison to the rest of the books. I still absolutely fell in love with the series from book one and could not wait to keep reading it. But I've been pretty open that it's just not my favorite out of the series. And while it still is not my favorite, I have such a greater appreciation for A Court of Thorns and Roses and how much of a setup book it is. Like why Thera needed the love story with Tamlin first and how it helps her on her path, like you're saying. Also the foreshadowing for Akamath and how we've always had chapter 54 open. Oh, my goodness. And it made me really realize how Acotar walked So Acomath could run.
- [48:38]
Lexi
Yes. Yeah.
- [48:39]
Nicole
Similarly, Agatha is still my favorite too. The introduction to this found family Feyre's healing journey and truly coming into her own. The love story between her and Rhys, and the Chapter 54 reveal the expanding magical world with all the powers, the different courts, and of course places like Valar's that make me just want to jump through the page and go there. I don't think I've read another book that gave me that same feeling. And I've read multiple series that have really come close. But. But man, there is something so magical about the Inner Circle and Velaris. Our Deep Dive did change my number two series ranking, though. It was originally a tie between Acowar and Silver Flames. Acowar for the plot, Silver Flames for the character development. But now after Deep Diving both, I've got to go with Silver Flames in second place. Nesta's character journey is the best I've ever read. I felt that beforehand, but I felt a lot better about most of the plot that we got in Silver Flames and a lot of the lore that it definitely jumped up to, to number two.
- [49:37]
Lexi
So then, okay, so wait, then what is your official one through five ranking?
- [49:41]
Nicole
Number one, Acomaf. Number two, Silver Flames. Number three, Acawar. Probably number four, Acotar. And number five, Frost and Starlight.
- [49:50]
Lexi
Yeah, I think it would go Acomaf, Acotar, Silver Flames, Acawar, Frost and Starlight. Yeah, I think that would. And I think that's actually how it was when I first, when we first started the Deep Dive. So if anything, it just locked it into place. Next question from Emma. What's your biggest change in opinion or viewpoint from before the Deep Dive to after? Let's do this split. So let's say the change for the better, and then maybe change for the worse. So let's kick it off with change for the better. Asriel and Elaine. Yeah, absolutely. We still soft ship Gwen and Asriel. But like, I have such a much deeper appreciation for Azriel and Elizabeth Elaine as 3D characters than I ever did before. In our Acotar episode one, I was, I'm pretty sure I, I, I ripped Elena new one. I was pretty open about not liking her at all. But throughout these, you know, 43 episodes, I've really found an appreciation for her soft, quiet courage, especially in Acomaf, which is funny because she really doesn't come into the story in a bigger way until what I feel like is Acowar. But I remember during that cut coverage, there's a moment where Elaine really stood up to Nesta and basically said we have to help Pharaoh with the queens. And we saw Elaine spring into action in a way we never really had before. And my opinion still stays the same as when we covered that episode is that that is the true Elaine. Someone who does spring into action. Not loudly because that's not her, but for what's right in the moment. She's just been shoved down and coddled her whole life, so it's not her initial reaction until she's really starting to come into her own. And then on the FL there's Azriel, who I started really finding an appreciation for his humor, which I never thought I would say, and his caring. He is so much more dynamic than just the quiet Bat boy, especially with him teaching Feyre how to fly. And of course, you know, his bonus chapter that we've talked endlessly about. I am way more excited for their book now, having a greater appreciation for their depthness of characters Now. I'm also going to throw out the biggest change of heart for the better. And I don't know if this has changed, but it's more like, whoa. I did not expect this person person to be this high. Is Gwen. I liked her a lot on the previous reads, but now I will rally behind this girl with pitchforks and fire. Like I think that she is so great. She quickly climbed up the ranks as one of my favorite characters in the series and I. I really appreciate her a lot.
- [52:19]
Nicole
Yes. All of that. I'm being quiet here because you're saying exactly what I feel.
- [52:23]
Lexi
Yes.
- [52:24]
Nicole
I'll go ahead and add a few more in here for the better for me, me, Nesta and Cassian both as individuals and as a couple. Cassian was already my number one book boyfriend, but after deep diving the series he just keeps climbing higher and higher. He is like completely untouchable compared to anybody else. And I already loved Nesta's character Journey, but after Silver Flames, I relate to her on such a deep level and I think she may be my new favorite SJM female character.
- [52:52]
Lexi
Wow. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
- [52:55]
Nicole
And then doing like a 180 pivot here. Jurian.
- [52:58]
Lexi
Yes, we became such Jurian fans, especially in acowar. I want more of him, but I don't know if we're ever no, we might actually get an illusion pov. But oh my God, I love him.
- [53:13]
Nicole
Like I did not expect that I would be rooting for his character and here we are not putting him on my favorites list, but I just saw A lot more of him than I ever anticipated. And I loved all of it.
- [53:27]
Lexi
As we're moving into for the worst, I'm gonna put one in. Like, that's for the neutral, where it's like, I really liked this character. But then I went into. Oh, you have some highs and lows, sir. And that is a little bit Lucian. I love Lucian. I still want him to be so happy. But Akama really hurt Lucian. That was a tough series to cover. And we're. I. Because originally I was like Elaine and Lucian. Absolutely. It makes sense. I totally see them together. And, and now I'm like, ooh, I don't know, actually. Because, like, I, I, I don't see Lucian as that character for Elaine.
- [53:59]
Nicole
I agree with you. Because at the start of our deep dive, I was soft shipping Elaine and Lucian and that they would end up together despite the bond versus. Because of the bond. And especially after deep diving Frost and Starlight and Silver Flames and that bonus chapter, I don't see how that is going to happen now. Just because I don't see it happening does not mean that I won't root for it. You know, as the story goes, all depends on the storytelling. But Elena's so indifferent to him. And especially with things going on between her and Azriel. I don't see her ending up with anybody by the end of this.
- [54:33]
Lexi
Yeah, right. I vote we make our first Acotar bet. And that is, I think that Lucian is going to end up in a throuple with jury. And I will happily make that bet with you.
- [54:44]
Nicole
Sure.
- [54:46]
Lexi
I think that Lucian, because I agree. I do not see a world where him and Elaine are going to end end up together. But every time Jurian and Vassa are on the page with Lucian, I'm getting throuple energy. Especially because we know SJM really wanted to write a threesome scene. Actually, no. She wrote a threesome scene with Azriel, Cassian and Nesta. So we know it's not out of the question that that's something we could get on the page in a future book.
- [55:08]
Nicole
A threesome is very different than a throuple, though.
- [55:12]
Lexi
That is true. I'm just saying, what if she goes a little further?
- [55:17]
Nicole
All right. I think that Lucian and Vassa are going to end up together.
- [55:21]
Lexi
I think Lucian, Vassa and Jurian will have a thing. I'm not gonna say end up together, but I think they're gonna have a thing.
- [55:28]
Nicole
A sexual hold on now. So there's a huge difference between you thinking that they're going to have a threesome and them ending up as a throttle. So which are you saying? Because I'm not making that pat. Then why? Because those are two completely different things.
- [55:46]
Lexi
Okay, fine. I will say that they'll end up as a throuple.
- [55:49]
Nicole
Okay.
- [55:49]
Lexi
If I win, you have to do one inner Circle debrief for ACOTAR 6, and it has to be the most unhinged inner circle debrief we've ever had on the show.
- [56:01]
Nicole
That sounds great. Awesome. I will happily do that. And if I win, you know what? I'm just gonna go with my default. You know, I. I go with a sleepover babysitting.
- [56:12]
Lexi
A sleepover babysitter setting. Yes. Okay.
- [56:15]
Nicole
Yes.
- [56:15]
Lexi
All right, let's talk about change of opinions for the worst. And Rhys, my love, you used to be my top number one book boyfriend. But man, Silver Flames really did you dirty. And I will admit, if we are just basing this off of the original trilogy, Rhys would still be my number one book boyfriend, no questions asked. But his choices, his demeanor, his wildness that he acted towards Azriel in the bonus chapter in Silver Flames. It was so off and mean and out of true Rhys character. Was he dealing with things that we highlighted? Yes, he absolutely was. And he still made choices that were really hard for me to grasp, even with the mindset that was he was in, even with the distress of his mate.
- [57:03]
Nicole
I'll also throw in too, that we completely understand that we as readers are going to see Rhys from a different lens because we are in Nesta's po. And that just absolutely makes sense that we see him in a more negative light than we do from Ferris pov. Of course. And like you're saying specifically his choices, not necessarily his demeanor or even how he behaves, but it's his choices that are with his brothers. So I'm taking nested completely out of this equation here. Yeah, yeah. And that was a little surprising to me. I was really leaning into, well, it's just different because we have Nessa's POV and there were some things from his brother's POVs that I was like, okay, this is a little harder to root for and to understand. Although I will always say that he was going through a lot of stuff and I hope that in a future book now that his mate is not going to die and he's not terrified for her life in that way, I think he's going to be a little bit better moving forward.
- [57:59]
Lexi
I really hope so, because I miss the Rhys. I can't believe I'm Saying this, I miss the self sacrificing Rhys that we knew and love from the original trilogy. I do want to put a huge asterisk with this change of heart because in prep for this episode this week I noticed I was getting really into recency bias, Reese bias with Silver Flames coverage. So I actually went back and re listened to Acomaf so I could like feel my shoulders drop when it comes to Rhys. And that happened 100%. I was like, oh my God. That's why I love this man so much. He's amazing. But sadly, his character really did take a nosedive in the second half of this coverage. So I am going to put him as my change for the worse. I'm also going to throw in Tamlin. I knew going into this coverage he was going to take some Ls. It was going to be really hard to navigate through some very tough conversations. I was not expecting to despise him to the level that I do now. His choices that he made were so blatant red flags that I just didn't even catch on my first few reads and I was like wow. And that was really hard to cover and boil. Boy, he was hard to root for.
- [59:10]
Nicole
Yeah, he was. I was definitely doing my best with looking from his perspective because it is important to look at it from his perspective and to get that context and it can be hard. When I think about for the worse. I don't really have any big character that comes to mind, at least one that you haven't already mentioned here. So I will say slightly more. I still love our girl more and I completely understand her perspective with why she has kept her secret and it is absolutely within her right to keep that a secret. And I feel like she does use Cassian and Azriel and is a little bit immature about how it all is and is creating conflict that does not necessarily need to be there and is playing with specifically Azriel's feelings that doesn't sit right with me. Even if she is absolutely allowed to have her secrecy and all of that. There's just something that comes often in how she's covering it up and how she's really pushing others things on that I just. I don't know.
- [60:12]
Lexi
Yeah, well, like, because I agree with you entirely. Like there's that moment where she's telling Feyre this is like, you know, this is what I've been doing and it's an acowar and she even says she's like she slept with helium so that she could get Asriel Offer back. And there's a huge difference between, I don't want to share my secret, which she is ever. She has every right to not want to share her secret.
- [60:34]
Nicole
And.
- [60:35]
Lexi
And she can also sit down with Asriel and say, I don't see you that way. Yeah, cut the poor man of fucking break.
- [60:41]
Nicole
Like, yes. And I know that some people in the fandom say that. Well, it's. It's his responsibility, too. And, yes, there is just a huge miscommunication between both of them, and he should have gotten the message by now. And it's two parties who are responsible for this. And it's her secret. It's her feelings that she does not feel toward him. And he's kind of weak, waiting around to get anything from her. And so I think that there is a little bit of a responsibility on her part to share that she's not into him in that way.
- [61:13]
Lexi
And I'll also even throw in when Cassie and starts getting eyes for Nesta and he starts drifting away from being the buffer that more can always count on. More lashes out on Nesta. And I think she takes out that anger, and there's. There's multiple layers to this. Like, she. She doesn't like Nesta. Their personalities really clash. Nesta was not very nice to her, and she also takes out some of that anger of, oh, my God, things are changing. You're taking my buffer away. That doesn't sit well with me either.
- [61:40]
Nicole
Because she is somebody who does want happiness for everybody. And I think that she's just not quite aware of the domino effect that she really is causing. And she's choosing not to be aware of that because it's right in front of her face. And she's taking this easy route from.
- [61:58]
Lexi
Ashley F. Is there anything that took you by surprise of your own analysis of the books?
- [62:04]
Nicole
So I'm gonna say I honestly thought we were gonna get more theories for Acotar.
- [62:09]
Lexi
I thought so, too.
- [62:11]
Nicole
Like, don't get me wrong, they were definitely there, and we loved pulling them in and all of that kind of stuff. But we leaned a lot more into character analysis than theory talk, which felt pretty different than how we covered the Empyrean series. I also thought we'd have more Easter eggs to work with among the series. And again, we definitely had plenty. Plenty. And I felt like, for instance, we had so many for Acotar, for Acomath, like, there were a lot of purposeful Easter eggs. And then after Acomath and the big, you know, love reveal and mates and all that it kind of fell a little bit more to the wayside. There were definitely some good lore ones. And again, of course when it's when we get into the mass first, there were plenty from Silver Flames. But I thought there were going to be a lot more theories.
- [62:52]
Lexi
When I think about Easter eggs, I think about those like half sentences that make you lose your freaking mind. Like for instance, Feyre's in her dream and there is a dark shadowy presence watching her. That is an Easter egg that I'm like, oh my God, that's Rhys on a reread.
- [63:05]
Nicole
Or the fourth object that Nesta sees with Lanthis. And how it's like, oh my gosh, what is. What could that possibly be?
- [63:12]
Lexi
Yes, exactly. And I agree with you entirely. I feel like Acawar, especially those really like. Yes, there were definitely some like with the bone carver saying the ancient Fae and all this kind of stuff. There's definitely those little Easter Easter eggs that can make a spiral. But they were every so often versus a normal FFG episode. For instance, like Empyrean coverage. And very similar what I'm assuming Kindred's Curse is going to be. It's like four or five an episode.
- [63:35]
Nicole
Exactly.
- [63:36]
Lexi
And I feel like that is no wonder we were so in sync with each other in this. Because it was so character analysis. And as we're analyzing characters we are very in sync with with viewpoints and stuff like that. It's when we get into the theories that we get cutthroat with each other.
- [63:50]
Nicole
Yes, yes. So again, they were there. But just. Just our general style of deep diving this series, it changed than what I anticipated as we were going to cover. I really did think that it was going to be a little bit more like Empyrean. Even though we did have more books to work with and it became a lot more beat by beat character analysis and kind of like explaining how things are working and stuff like that than a lot of theory talk.
- [64:16]
Lexi
Yeah, well, speaking of, I'll say so much of what really took me by surprise was I'm gonna go specifically with Feyre's story and I'm gonna go with in Acowar because we were pretty open when we first started Acowar that we were like, we're not the biggest fan of how her storyline was portrayed on our first few reads. And I won't speak for you, Lex, but egg on my face. This was one of my favorite portrayals of Feyre. After the Spring Court. I want.
- [64:41]
Nicole
I was gonna say Spring Court.
- [64:44]
Lexi
I stand by my Thoughts on that. You can listen to the first two episodes of Acotar or Acowar if you want to hear our thoughts. We were not shy about how we felt about that. But I'm looking more later on in the book, especially around, like, the Ouroboros mirror.
- [64:56]
Nicole
Yes.
- [64:56]
Lexi
That coverage, that episode I was not expecting to have, that hit me in the chest as much as it did the moment where Feyre decides that, like all the horrible things she's done, she's been. She's thought about herself, she decided that that person was still worthy of love, and then she owns and embraces that person, and that's when the mirror finally yields to her. I remember covering that moment and being like, damn, this book is good. I think that almost took it up to third place for me, but then with. With Silver Flames, it really solidified that being in third place, but like, AKA War itself was. It took me by surprise with how well done Feyre's journey was with that.
- [65:35]
Nicole
Yes. Moving on to our next question. It was actually submitted anonymously. What was your process for outlining your episodes?
- [65:42]
Lexi
It happened. Has massively changed in the last 11 months. I actually think with Acotar, it has solidified urine eyes start of the outlining process, whereas previously it was just kind of like throw some shit on a page. The rhythm we've found, however, is we always start out with something we call the map of the episode, where we pull out all the main moments from the chapter stretches that we're covering, and we put them into our own little shorthand. And we'll normally throw it in, like, a category so it could be beat by beat, it could be theory talk, it could be battle walkthrough, character analysis, so on and so forth. And that way we really know how we're wanting to approach the coverage of that section. Then we will assign each of those sections to one of the two of us. And we know that that person's gonna do. We'll say, like, the heavy lifting of that section. And then this is where our process is totally different.
- [66:27]
Nicole
So I usually do my deep dive reading super late at night, and I have no energy to take more than really shorthand notes. I mean, like, we're talking, like, one word to trigger my brain to remember, oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking about when I highlighted that. And so then once when I go into my office for my sit down, you know, with my laptop and my monitor and all of that, I have a split screen with the ebook and our outline. And so I have literally Half the page outlined, and I have, like, little, like, shorthand words here and there to help me remember what I was thinking. And then I do all of my note taking and outlining inside of our outline document there.
- [67:02]
Lexi
So I read the chapter stretches and I. I take extensive notes when I'm doing my reading. And I use like, my color coding system where it's like, cauldron is yellow, favorite moments is pink, like, purple is master smartness, so on and so forth. And each of those notes I'll write a shorthand commentary. But for me, it's normally like a sentence or two. Sometimes I will literally write the. In, like, for instance, the last episode where Nesta, you know, is going down the hill to meet up with her family. Like, the last line of the book. I wrote that entire, entire thing when I was reading that part of the book. And this is honestly just easier for me because as I'm like, reading, I'm in the flow of it. I'm thinking about what I want to talk about and all that kind of stuff. But then I'll sometimes also write like a shorthand. Like, for instance, when we were looking at the three stars over Ramiel, I literally was like, look up three star names. Like, stuff like that.
- [67:51]
Nicole
That's what all of my notes look like. Yeah. And I'm so happy for you with your extensive note taking and all that. But, like, I would need to be in a way better state of mind than when I read my deep dives.
- [68:02]
Lexi
I can't do it in bed or anything. Like, I have to be at my computer where I have my full monitor. Like, if I don't have my full monitor, where my. My book is, like. Like, because if I have my ebook up and I'm on my full monitor, it will say like, oh, you know, three pages left in chapter, two pages left in chapter. Like, typically that's. That's a pretty average chapter. But if I go on my laptop, it's like 17 pages left in chapter, and I just feel defeated. Like, I can't do that, so I have to do it on here. But then once I'm done with my reading, I go into all of my sections on the outline, and I basically take the notes that I wrote from the reading and I make them make sense in the outline, and then I'll make a shorthand if I need to Google anything or if I need to look up theories or anything like that. I don't do that on my first pass through of the outline just because I like to be as much in flow as possible. Then on the last day before we record, I'll clean up the icd, I'll finalize it, I'll do the math first madness. And then I go into Lexi sections, I add any of my own commentary. This also is where I go through and find any of those like look up theories and then I'll do all that theory work. Because if I what I realized is that if I'm reading or if I'm doing my first pass through of the outline and I start going down theory rabbit holes, it takes me like triple the amount of time to do the outline. So I've learned that if I do just a devoted data theory rabbit holes, it helps me stay on track a lot more.
- [69:18]
Nicole
I love how we have such different ways of doing it.
- [69:20]
Lexi
It makes sense though. It makes a lot. Well, it's honestly better because when we were doing empyrean I would listen to the audiobook and do the outline and follow along with the ebook at the same time and just pause the audiobook anytime I had something to write down and it was chaos. Like I don't know how I did that for so long. I think back to that and I'm like, oh my God.
- [69:40]
Nicole
So all in all, each of us spend minimum 15 hours a week on the outline. I would say much more. Average is 20 hours each week. And you know, some weeks are more, especially if it's a prison episode or something along those lines where it is very lore heavy or if it's very theory heavy or if it's you know, like the lake scene or something like that where it really does require a lot of extra care, then I would push it more up to like 25 hours a week for each of us. And that is like one small part of what our business is.
- [70:10]
Lexi
Now the nice thing is with the hiring on of a content researcher, Brooke. She has helped us so much with the surreal section and with now like any deep dive, like downloads or anything like that during the outline. She also does the first pass through of the ICD now and then I go and like add my flair to it. Like she is starting to take a lot of those hours and give us back some time in our day so we can stop working so much at night. But yes, we do spend a lot of time on these outlines and honestly it is a perfect built in excuse to put off the things that I don't want to do. And for me that is scheduling the those darn doctor's appointments. But thank goodness for zocdoc. There's no reason to delay. They make it so easy to find and book a doctor who is right for you.
- [70:55]
Nicole
ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than a hundred thousand doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care, and so much more. You can filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby and are a good fit for any medical need you may have. Also, with hundreds of verified patient reviews, you can find the type of care and support you're looking for. From good bedside manner to fast wait times to doctors with the best listening skills.
- [71:29]
Lexi
We use Zocdoc and you should too. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com FF to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z o c d o c.com ff zocdoc.com ff from Cassie G. How do you feel finishing up such a long and life changing book series?
- [71:53]
Nicole
Acotar reintroduced me to reading for fun and especially getting back into fantasy. I genuinely didn't know these kind of books existed. I know that seems almost silly to say now, but I really didn't. It was a little daunting to deep dive this series, partly because it has such a dedicated and appealing opinionated fan base and it really is so near and dear to Nicole's and my hearts too. And we also aren't the first podcast to cover it in such detail like we were for Fourth Wing. But this journey has been incredible and I'm so proud of how we've deep dived this series that did change both of our lives and so many others. We celebrated these character journeys and we marveled at how the magic comes to life off the page. We resonate with complex emotions that are so well written. In fact, it feels like there's been quite a few episodes that have felt like therapy sessions, like when Feyre trains with Cassian Most of Silver Flames and learning to face her inner self and embrace it as really a big theme throughout the series. Hearing from so many of you who also connect with these characters and what they're experiencing. I can't express how much it's meant to us to hear you say that you feel like you know, you're hearing the words and hearing the voice of what so many of us feel. And we're really honored that you choose to listen to this Acotar Deep Dive this community is Also unmatched. We're all readers who love the magic of these worlds, who care about these characters, who love to exercise our brains with theories and lore. And it's so special to bond with all of you and have this little corner of the Internet where we all feel welcome and heard and celebrated and we can share these passions with one another and really understand each other like.
- [73:28]
Lexi
It is so bittersweet to end this after 11 months. This is also the series that got me back into reading and I'll go into specifically, like our coverage of acomaf. That was one of the most beautiful, fulfilling experiences I've ever done in my creative life. And I remember going into the outline every day for that coverage and just being so excited to deep dive that book. And I was also a little nervous going into books post acomaf because I was worried that with the big Feyre and Rhys love story over, I would lose some of the passion I had for the series. And that did not happen at all. If anything, I even got a greater appreciation for the lore and the acowar and the battle scenes and of course, the character development from Nesta and Silver Flames. Every series we cover, it does present its own challenge, but it always makes us a better deep dive team. And this series, for me, I feel like the exercising of a character analysis muscle was really fun and really exciting. It was hard to look at POVs from other sides and Lexi definitely had to take the brunt of that sometimes because I really struggled with it. But that was really cool. Seeing that skill over time for both of us, I feel like really get solidified. And I think also the series, like you said, Lex, it's really embracing who you are and loving yourself. And I can truly say from deep diving this series, I have taken some of those lessons to heart in my own life. I know I keep going back to like the Ouroboros mirror mirror coverage, but that has really stayed with me in a way that I never thought it would. Looking into the mirror and accepting every part of yourself, the good, the bad, the things you adore, the things you hate, and saying I love you to every part of yourself is something I'm actively working on in my own life. And that was absolutely inspired by Feyre's journey. Yes.
- [75:16]
Nicole
And I'll say, for me, it was a lake scene. Like, you all heard me. I was crying into the microphone and behind the scenes, I actually needed to take a break and go collect myself because I felt so strongly, not in a bad way, but just like a really good Therapy session, like I was saying there.
- [75:34]
Lexi
Yeah, yeah.
- [75:35]
Nicole
Moving on to another question here, this one's from Alyssa. What was the hardest part of these books to cover? What was the easiest and most fun?
- [75:43]
Lexi
Well, we'll start with the hardest and we've kind of been teasing this up and we'll go a little bit more into it. But the hardest part definitely was looking through the lens of a character whose thought process is very different from your own. I really remember covering the second episode of Acomaf, and for reasons I won't fully go into, the scene with Tamlin in the study was one of the only moments I think ever in outlining where I was like shaking writing and I had to physically walk away from the outline and come back later. And if I remember, Lex, I think that was a moment where you took over quite a bit of my sections during that section, during that part, because I truly couldn't do it. So, yes, while we're like covering fantasy books, there are some topics that are so real and difficult to navigate our way through where we are feeling like we're doing the story justice and simultaneously not zeroing in so much on the negative repercussions of it. We really always do try to do the story justice in a greater point where we're looking at how can this affect the character in long term. Emory and Gwen's story is another really great example from Silver Flame, where we wanted to do that story justice, but we also didn't want to harp so much on the negative where we were overlooking the beautiful journey that they've been on. It's also really hard to put our minds in a character who, quite frankly, we're pissed at. Like Tamlin at the High Lord's meeting is a great example. I'm also going to throw in for like, hardest parts of coverage was Mass versus Madness.
- [77:05]
Nicole
Yes.
- [77:05]
Lexi
I, I think I've reread the Mass first like two or three times since we started doing this deep dive and I still feel, feel like I missed so much. Having 16 books in your head and on your laptop open at any given time is really challenging. You're constantly having to cross reference. You're looking back on something. I'm, I'm really, really proud of us for doing it. I'm really, really excited we're going back to a book that has three books because it is a massive undertaking and I really am proud of us. But thank God for the ebook search function.
- [77:38]
Nicole
Yeah, definitely. I will say too, too, when it comes to the mass verse and not giving spoilers There are some really critical things that you find out in another series in particular that has made it hard for us to cover certain aspects of Acotar without giving spoilers, but also not completely plain dumb. I know that some people on our social media clips have been like, well, you clearly haven't read XYZ book. It's like, no, we just don't have it in this section here, everybody. So it's been hard to know navigate those spoilers, especially when they are so prominent in certain areas. Yeah. One other thing that I will add that's been a little bit difficult to cover, especially from like my lore brain part is how some of the magic works when the series is a little like trust the magic, you know, in other series again, like Empyrean and I'll even say Kendra's Curse saga, there's more rules to the magic and it's a bit of a free for all in Acotar. I think that's pretty common when there's Fae in any series. And it can be really hard to try to explain when there are contradicting descriptions or very vague details. And it's something that we just kind of have to chalk up to, you know, magic. And my brain doesn't always like to do that. So it's been hard to navigate some of that because I know so many of you are also confused. And I want to always provide as much clarity as possible and sometimes the clarity is just not there.
- [78:59]
Lexi
Yeah, definitely. As for the easy, easiest and most fun part, I do keep going back to the ACOMAF episodes. Like that book was not easy but because it was dense, but it was a joy to deep dive. We were talking about like the love story got us back into reading. But even some literary standpoints. I want to highlight the coverage of Chapter 54 because that was very different from our typical outlining process. And it was one of the most fun, I'll say fun episodes to make an outline for. I remember.
- [79:29]
Nicole
I'm glad you feel that way.
- [79:31]
Lexi
Okay, well, I remember listening to Falling by Harry Styles just on loop for like four days straight and just getting chills left and right as I was doing all the cross referencing. Like we mentioned how we did our outline coverage earlier in the episode. Chapter 54 was really one where that went out the window. Like I remember having Akama open, Acotar open, the outline open and I was almost following along side by side between Acomaf and Acotar to make sure that I was looking at. And I think you and I were very Similar here, where we were looking at both Rhysand's POV and Feyre's POV side by side to see where they were aligned in their thought process, where they differed, where there was like a half sentence for Feyre and there was a whole paragraph for rhysand in chapter 54. And that took a long time. But I'll never forget that moment. That was, that was really fun. I'll also throw in an episode that was really fun was the Summer Court. We looked at that episode. Just a shits and giggles and a summer vacation. I don't know why it made such a huge difference. It was the same style, but it just made a huge. That was just a fun week.
- [80:31]
Nicole
It was also an easy episode compared to the last few that we'd been doing. I had been in the process of moving and had a lot of stuff going on in my personal life that was. Was really hard. And so going into the Summer Court, it was like, okay, it was kind of like nice bookends where instead of most of our episodes that it's like a lot of different things happen. This one was like all in one place and it had a running theme and it was like, wow, this is easy.
- [80:57]
Lexi
Yeah, we even like dressed up in our summer gear.
- [81:00]
Nicole
Like, oh, I think that was one of the first episodes that I did in my new office before I went with this background one. I'll also say that while it's tough to work with so much source material because we're bound to miss some details, there's also a lot of easiness covering ACOTAR because it is the biggest fandom out there with a built out wiki. Even if some of the info is wrong sometimes, in no way can it ever be relied upon. Lots of fan theories, Reddit articles for days, all of that good stuff. So many times when we had a question, there was some kind of answer on the Internet, I'd say maybe like 70% of the time we were able to use the fandom as a resource there. Whereas with the Empyrean series we did not have nearly the same amount of resources to work with. And it was really all just on our shoulders to get the information that we needed from the books or find theories in real time.
- [81:50]
Lexi
You know, yes, I'll even throw in it was hard because you had like four or five Reddit articles that you were like, oh, this is all really good information and all of this kind of stuff. And then you'll look at the, the timestamp and maybe it was from like three years ago and some stuff has come out that has now debunked these theories. And it's like, ah, damn it. But this is so good. Like, a lot of the times I used some theories as, I'll say, Springboards.
- [82:13]
Nicole
Yes.
- [82:13]
Lexi
Where it was like, oh, this is a good way of getting my brain to think in a different way. That was really fun. For sure.
- [82:18]
Nicole
Definitely. Okay, so moving on to another question here. Looking back, what are the most memorable moments from the Acotar deep dive?
- [82:25]
Lexi
I've talked ACOMAF endlessly, so I'll hold off on that. Obviously chapter 54 is a big one, but I'm gonna throw in some stair math. That was so funny, especially how many people sent the clip from Empyrean where it was like, I'm never going to use the Pythagorean free room in my entire life. And then seeing how much that played into at least the first rendition of Stare math. I'm also going to throw in the Weaver's cottage. I loved looking at the Weaver song and going into the lore behind that and. And looking at what that could possibly mean, theory wise. Or anytime we have had to look up a backstory where it was like, like Kosj, for instance, our real world son of a pine tree, Ivan Sosnovich and all of that kind of stuff, I think that was really fun. Also, someone religion watch connecting a lot of the Amren storylines and backstory and Lashan Hakodesh and stuff like that to Hebrew. And that religion was really interesting because it's just not something I'm familiar with. So anytime I got to expand my knowledge base of something entirely new, that was really memorable.
- [83:25]
Nicole
As far as the most memorable moment moments, I'll go ahead and say for me, I feel like I really came into my own with our Acotar coverage. And my personal journey of podcasting has been really memorable for me. For instance, swooning over Cassian, singing my millennial songs, and making pop culture references. The battle sequences. I feel like I started to get into my groove, especially with Iron Flame. But the inside jokes that we have formulated here with Acotar, it's been so much fun and so, so unique. A few particularly memorable moments was covering Starfall and Agamath with me saying Splooge every chance I got. The final battle in Acowar and just all of Cassian and Silver Flames. It's been so much fun creating these inside jokes. They just come naturally as you cover something for so long. And I felt like we definitely had that with Empyrean. And we were a little bit nervous about how that would all play out with Acotar. And of course, it takes a little while to get into the rhythm, and that's the case.
- [84:25]
Lexi
After all, episode one was Man, Bear, Pig. And that never left this podcast.
- [84:31]
Nicole
Yes. So just that was really fun. Is looking back on all of those inside jokes that we now have with all of you too. You know, people are like, I can never hear dining room and not think of Nicole in the dining room. You know, last night I was at.
- [84:45]
Lexi
Trivia with like an extra trip with a bunch of FFG Denver people. And the one of the questions, the answer was claire Better. And you could just hear echoed throughout the bar. Never forget your Claire. And I was like, Brett and I, like, looked at each other and I was like, oh, my God. Like, that is always so fun. Yes.
- [85:04]
Nicole
Yes, definitely. All right, next question is from Chloe. Favorite character before deep diving and favorite character after. I know we've kind of touched on this, but let's lay it all out there now.
- [85:14]
Lexi
Favorite character before deep dive. Hands down, Rhysand. I mean, if we had stopped at Acavor, it would have stayed Rhysand. Can I say that again? His banter, his chess playing, his priority of choice above all else. Like, I am a moth to a flame with that. But for all the reasons I've stated before, it did not stay Rhys, obviously because of the way his character was acting and yada, yada, yada. So if I had to go with favorite character by the end of Silver Flames, I'm actually going to throw out Cassian Cat. Not for book boyfriend material.
- [85:42]
Nicole
I was going to say, don't make me fight you, Nicole.
- [85:44]
Lexi
I wouldn't dare. You would win. I. I think for his emotional intelligence, his ability to, like, cut loose, have fun. May we all remember the winter solstice decorating scene. I'm also gonna throw in Feyre. I really appreciated her character journey more and more, even as it does get very 2D in silver flames. She was still enough in character that I will keep her on this list. And of course, I've already mentioned Gwen. Gwen. Even though we got only one book with her, I found such a new appreciation for her lightness, her constant curiosity, her determination about above all else of the people on this list, I think she's the one I most resonate with, and I'm really excited to spend time with her going forward.
- [86:24]
Nicole
Me too. I'd say my favorite character before the deep dive was probably Feyre. And my favorite character after the deep dive is 100% Cassian. I think Feyre took a few Ls in the beginning of Acowar and then lacked some character in Silver Flames. I don't think that was her fault. Like, I still love our girl and especially what you're talking about with the Ouroboros mirror and how her and her own healing journey and really coming into her own as the high lady of the night court. I know I joke so much about how I love Cassian, but from a character perspective, he really is my favorite. Like you were saying, his emotional intelligence, his sense of humor, his loyalty. He is just everything I ever want in a character. And he does still have some of his own flaws too. And he always tries so hard to do right by them too. I just love him so much. Much.
- [87:14]
Lexi
Yes, before we move into some rapid fire questions, we do want to take a moment and tell you about today's sponsor, Ritual. If there is one thing we have learned in life, it is that life's responsibilities just keep growing and growing. You say I'll deal with that when life calms down. It doesn't. And it can be so hard to manage that stress. But Ritual has truly helped. Start your morning with Ritual's Stress Relief. It's a product that uses first of its kind technique technology to support your body's natural cortisol response so you can take on the daily juggle. It is truly one of the most beautiful supplements I've ever put in my body and I can feel myself going from like ah to ah.
- [87:54]
Nicole
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- [88:14]
Lexi
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- [88:34]
Nicole
Now let's go with some rapid fire questions from Rose. When will we get the next book? 2025 or for 2026?
- [88:41]
Lexi
We're gonna have to start with the first big, big, big blanket statement that we do not know. As we're recording this on December 20, 2024. We do not know we have not been told anything, so this is entirely speculation. I can pretty confidently say though that I don't believe we're gonna get it in 2025. From a book marketing standpoint and from what we know with publishing, she's not gonna pull a Taylor Swift and just drop a whole book out of nowhere with no lead up. And for a book like this to have have lead up, typically it is around year, if not just slightly under a year. So with all of that said, I do think it is highly possible that we're going to get more information like coming spring 2026 around the 10 year anniversary of Acotar, which is next year. From a business standpoint. While a lot of attention is on Acotar with the anniversary, it makes sense to have an announcement like this to really build up the hype.
- [89:29]
Nicole
Recently in a Spotify video, Sarah J. Maas did say that news is coming soon. Of course the word soon is a very subjective word, but she was also read really Talking about the 10 year anniversary and how Elizabeth Evans is going to be re recording the Acotar audiobooks, so she will also be narrating those in addition to the Throne of Glass and Crescent City that are already out. So I could really see this soon. Referring to more news after the Onyx Storm hype dies down a little bit and right before the 10 year anniversary to really drive a lot more traffic to it. So if I absolutely had to guess, I would say mid to late March.
- [90:05]
Lexi
I'm in agreement. And using our FFG brains typically Sarah G. Maas has released Acotar books in May. She did that with books one through four releasing every year from 2015 to 2018. And then in February 2021 she released Silver Flames, which that is about a three year gap between Frost and Starlight and Silver Flames. And in that three year gap she released Kingdom of Ash and CC1. Since having her first child though in 2018 and her second in 20, she has started moving towards book releases every other year. And since CC2 came out in February 2022, CC3 came out in 2024, it is now looking like ACOTAR 6 will be around winter 2026. She has been moving towards consistently doing a January to March release since 2020. So I definitely think it's going to be in those months. So my best guess is between January and March 2026.
- [91:02]
Nicole
That definitely checks out for me. It gives the book plenty of lead up. Time for everybody to get excited if publishing companies pay attention to this. But as far as we know the sequel to onyx Storm Book 4 of the Empyrean series is not going to be coming out that early on because Rebecca Yarros has said that she's going to be taking some more time between her books. So I could see this ACOTAR6 really stepping in as the big book release. So it's not competing with book four of the Empyrean series there. So yes, I'm in agreement with you. I am going to say late winter 2026.
- [91:35]
Lexi
From Chris, which inner circle member is most like the other sister? I took this so differently, so please you go and I'm going to change my answer in real time.
- [91:46]
Nicole
I think that you are most like Feyre and here is why. Number one, she is a go getter. She needs her goals and she always needs to be working toward the next thing. That is 100% you too. She never gives up either. I think about her learning how to fly as an Illyrian and really how much she pushed herself with all of that there. I also think about her really loving other people and wanting to always do best by others and also understanding and respecting herself and I'll call it her own boundaries as well. And I think that you really exemplify that too. So I'm and you're always looking for that solution. You're always pushing yourself and I just see a lot of her in you.
- [92:27]
Lexi
Thank you. I have two answers that I'm going to combine into one and that is I think you're the best sides of more. So I'm talking about like the bubbliness, the all encompassing, always wanting to make sure the people around you are having fun, having a good time, being that light hearted, joyous self. And you're a good hostess. Like you're a good hostess but you're, you're bubbly, you're happy, you're. You're someone who really likes to have others feel at, at ease around you. And for that same reason, I'm also going to throw in Cassian. You are like I could see Cassian singing to the Sweat drops down my Ball any day of the week, especially the Christmas version.
- [93:10]
Nicole
Yes.
- [93:10]
Lexi
Well, and I don't know you, you just give me all of the best qualities of more. And Cassian melded into one person. So I definitely see that because you are so light and bubbly and happy and you love everyone to have a good time around around you. And I just, I definitely see that.
- [93:25]
Nicole
Oh, thank you.
- [93:26]
Lexi
From Anna Vicky, after covering the whole series, where does re Stan in your book Boyfriends. Who are your top five? You go ahead and answer. Who are your top five? Cassian, Wonderful.
- [93:39]
Nicole
I told you before, he's my number one and there is no one else who can touch him except me. If, if I had to choose choose others. This is not in an order of rankings here, but I would put Zaden Ryerson up there. I would put Luther Korba up there. I definitely put Kingfisher up there. And I probably put Khan up there too.
- [94:03]
Lexi
If we were able to just choose one book and one book without any, any insight from the rest of the series, Rhys would still be my number one book boyfriend with Acomaf, full stop. But if we're going book boyfriends for the entire series or slash all the books that we have in a series that are out right now, my list goes as follows. Tied for the top two are Luther Corbois and Zaden Ryerson. I will make my final ranking after Burn of the Ever Flame and Onyx Storm come out. Number three then is Kingfisher from Quicksilver. Number four is Rhys. I did some adjusting. He went up a notch. And number five is Khan from When the Moon Hatched, closely followed by Rune Danon, crown pins, the Battle bar, and Prey.
- [94:44]
Nicole
That's a good one too.
- [94:45]
Lexi
I love him. And with that, we are about to begin our Mass First Madness questions.
- [94:52]
Nicole
But first, we love to give the biggest warm welcome, welcome, welcome to our newest, for the last time, inner circle members moving on. The inner circle is going to be the Iron Squad.
- [95:03]
Lexi
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Azriel. I'm so glad you got in on the last Acotar episode. That's amazing. Karina, Dragon Rider, Katie and Camden. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Woohoo.
- [95:14]
Nicole
And if you're like, hey, I want my name shouted out on the podcast and be showered with all the love too, be sure to join the patreon party@patreon.com fantasy fangirls. The link is of course also in the show notes. It's about to get extra crazy with all the Onyx Storm excitement. And we also have a really exciting announcement about our premium offering coming up, in fact later this week. So stay tuned for more today's Master.
- [95:34]
Lexi
Madness questions include spoilers from the entire mass verse.
- [95:38]
Nicole
And also, friends, we do want to let you know that all of our MAS First Madness segments, they are in two different places. Number one, they are on YouTube. We have a dedicated playlist for all of them so you can listen per Acotar book of all of our Mas versus Madness from that book or we just recently released all of the Mas versus Madness from our entire ACOTAR series, Deep Dive that's available as an episode wherever you listen to podcasts. So if you're like, oh my gosh, I don't want to go back to listen to every single episode we got you. They're all episodes in one place for you to go back and listen when you're done reading all the Masters.
- [96:09]
Lexi
So for today, if you have not read Crescent City or all of Throne of Glass, this is where we part ways. But before you go, we have some fun exciting updates coming at you for our Empyrean coverage tomorrow. Literally tomorrow everything turns Empyrean. We will have two episodes in the lead up to Onyx Storm's release. Also, you can keep an eye out on our social media. We will have so many recaps, mini archives, theories and so much more coming in the next few weeks.
- [96:37]
Nicole
So yes, be sure to follow us on Instagram and tick tock at fantasy fangirlspod for all of that extra empyrean content. And on January 20th we will have our final predictions episode with Kaia Fraitz and Gabriel Michael who play Violet and Zaden in the graphic audio. We are so excited. They are also going to be reading Onyx Storm with everybody else so they don't have any any inside information. We made sure of that before inviting them on and we are so excited because they have their own theories, they know the characters so well and it's gonna be so much fun talking to them about our final predictions and theories ahead of Onyx Storm dropping.
- [97:10]
Lexi
And then after our Onyx Storm deep dive, the next book series we are covering is the Kindred's Curse Saga by Pen Cole that will be starting with book one Spark of the Everflame in April 2025. Link is in the show notes to get the fabulous first book of that series.
- [97:26]
Nicole
And also because we know that you all have been asking yes, our Kindred's Curse Saga coverage is going to be very similar to our ACOTAR coverage where you do need to read all three released books before diving into the very first episode to avoid any spoilers.
- [97:39]
Lexi
Chapter one of Spark of the Ever Flame. That's all we can say.
- [97:44]
Nicole
All right, we are now going to enter our Mass first Madness segment of the episode where we will be answering your mass first questions. Like Nicole mentioned today, we are discussing concepts and theories and all loads of things that give spoilers for the entire mass verse. So please only continue listening if you've read all of the books in both Throne of Glass and Crescent City if you haven't. We love you so much. Goodbye. We love you.
- [98:09]
Lexi
From Hazy Reads what are your theories for the next book slash POVs? We know a lot of people are thinking it's Azriel and Elain, but with the mass verse, what about Nesta's storyline? So this is really a continuation of our question from earlier about the POVs. Because we can't not discuss this without discussing what Bryce dropped on us at the end of the last book. I absolutely think Nessa's storyline is going towards resurrecting the Dust Court with Bryce's parting line of quote. I think that eight pointed star was tattooed on you for a reason. Take that sword and go figure it out. Why? When Bryce resurrected a Vollen, she saw the eight pointed star on the floor. She put the Star Sword and Truth Teller into the two little slits. And then using her Starborn magic, it was almost like turning a key, turning a lock. And she resurrects the land. I think that this is going to be a pretty one to one similarity with the prison, especially if Nesta discovers her ancestry of being a descendant of the Starborn Fae. She has Truth Teller and the Star Sword, so all she needs to do is figure out her Starborn power. Or she can use the power of the Cauldron here. Just like she brought Feyre and Nyx back to life with the power of the Cauldron, she also has the power of death in addition to the power of life. I 1000% believe that this will somehow play a role in how she resurrects the prison and makes it the Bountiful Dust Court. And then the land will choose her as its ruler.
- [99:30]
Nicole
I really want more Pegasuses.
- [99:33]
Lexi
Oh if okay, so the Pegasus is in the Day Court right now. Do you think they're going to go back to the Dust Court or do you think they're going to like split off and like, you know, start their own?
- [99:43]
Nicole
Feel so bad for Helion because those Pegasus are his pride Christ possessions.
- [99:48]
Lexi
If he's still alive. If he's dead and Lucian's in charge of the Dust.
- [99:51]
Nicole
All I'm saying is I think that the end of the Acotar series is going to be nest of flying off into the sunset on her Pegasus with Cassian flying next to her. And that's just gonna be like. I can see it so clearly in my brain.
- [100:06]
Lexi
I also think the resurrecting of the Dust Core or the start of the resurrecting of the Dust Court will lead to Nesta finding out that she is a descendant of Selene. But now I do have to put the caveat if here's what I don't think is going to happen. I don't think we're going to get a Nest only book next. I absolutely think it's going to be Azriel. Elaine will be the two main POVs. It's just a question of is that with Nesta as the third or is it the tandem read like I said earlier, where she'll be a later book but it's subsequently happening alongside? This is my big question is where is Bryce going to weave into this said differently, when is ACOTAR 6 going to open? Will it be right after Bryce leaves? Will it be 6 months ish later? I personally don't think it's going to be before Bryce arrives in Prythian. Do we disagree?
- [100:53]
Nicole
I think we might, because. Okay, so I think that it would actually make a lot of sense for us to get Asriel any Lane's POV in the months leading up to it. I think that the timeline is something like the end of silver flames is 4ish months before the beginning of House of Flaming Shadow. So I could see this storyline being primarily Elaine and Azriel's. I don't know if I'm willing to make a bet on that though.
- [101:20]
Lexi
I okay, well, I'm about to debunk why I don't think that's going to happen. So let's decide if we're going to make a bet at the end of my reasons here because the reason I don't think that it's going to be prior to Bryce arriving is if we do get more Nesta in addition to Azel, Azriel and Elaine, Nesta will need to have the info from Bryce about the Eight Pointed Star. If it's also more Nesta, she won't have guiding. She will also not know any of the Celine download info.
- [101:45]
Nicole
So yes, I do agree with you on Nesta's front, but what I could see is the end of this next book, ACOTAR 6, and it's literally like right as Bryce comes into it. And so it's like a little teaser in the Acotar book that it's like, hey, you got to go read this other other book now too.
- [102:01]
Lexi
Okay, so here's why I don't think it's going to be Azriel's love story before Bryce though, because in the Prythian caves with Nesta, Bryce and Azriel in the bonus chapter from CC3, Bryce asks if Azriel has a mate, and he says no. And he says, no partner, no spouse, no nothing. And then Bryce says, aren't you curious, my guy? And it's Nesta who replies, yes, we are. If we get Azriel's love story before Bryce arrives, that means that none of the inner circle knows who he ends up with. And that doesn't feel like Acotar storytelling if they're hiding in the shadows.
- [102:35]
Nicole
Okay, that. That convince you? You just convinced me. Yep, that makes total sense.
- [102:42]
Lexi
Now I will also throw out there's also this line about Celine looking like Reese's sister. And if that line was just a passing ship in the night and is not going to be addressed in ACOTAR 6, I'm gonna explode.
- [102:54]
Nicole
I agree, because then I think that will tie into Romul and also the title, potentially Azriel's story too. We do know that Annelius was the original owner of Truth Teller, and so could Azriel be a descendant of him?
- [103:08]
Lexi
Oh, I love that idea. So I am definitely leaning towards the start of ACOTAR 6 being, I'll say, a few months after Bryce leaves Prythian the final time. So basically after the take the star sword and the truth, tell her and go figure out why. But then it really does address the elephant in the room, which is, how on earth is SJM going to weave in Celine's download into acotar? Are we going to get a statement from SJM where she says, you need to read this book before you read Acotar 6? Are we going to get a TLDR from Amren or Nesta in an inner circle debrief meeting? Good God, our poor brains. If that happens.
- [103:44]
Nicole
I'm just. That's what I think. I think that we are going to get a summary of it and it'll kind of be sprinkled in a little bit, but I don't think that it will be an absolute requirement to read CC3 beforehand. Now, of course, if you read Actar 6 and you're like, what in the world is going on? Yeah. In order to get the full context, you do need to read CC3, but it's manageable without it.
- [104:06]
Lexi
Yes. And I do think that if that happens, I do think, like, Bryce is going to be referred to as, like, the girl with the pink sneakers. Like, I don't think they're ever going to say Bryce Quinlan in it. I think they're just going to say, like, girl with the pink sneakers. I'm curious to see how this goes. And I'm not going to lie, I do not envy SJM with that storytelling, because that is true. Tricky.
- [104:25]
Nicole
Yeah. From Isabella. Do you think that the next Acotar book will open up the Tog world to Prythian?
- [104:31]
Lexi
I think if anything, it would end on a cliffhanger. Opening up the Tog world to Prythian. Like, kind of how CC2 ended with like, hello, Bryce Quinlan, My name is Rhysand, which, oh, so good SJM had has said that she misses the Throne of Glass characters and some of the stories unfinished. To me, that tells me that Aelin will probably not be a major player if there is an opening up in the world because her story is wrapped up with a beautiful bow. But more on that in a second. So maybe Dorian. I could also see Lorcan Dorian, mainly because he lives Slash rules over Rift Hold. Rift Hold. That has to mean something. And also, never forget, in Empire of Storms, chapter 43, quote, Lorkhan had seen a kingdom perhaps 300 years ago that relied on barges to sail its goods from one end to another. Spice Watch, its name eluded him. Lost to the catacombs of his memory. Lorcan wonder if it still existed, tucked away between two mountain ranges on the other side of the world. This is Valeris. Like, I mean, this is the two mountain ranges. And Lorcan couldn't remember because of the magic of Velaris. So I could absolutely see a crossover where Lorcan comes into Valoris and he's like, I remember this place. Like, oh my goodness. Now both Acomaf and Empire of Storms came out in the same year. So it's. It also could have been SJM just kind of having fun with the crossover, but I really love the idea of that being an open plot hole. Now, by the same logic, Aylin falls through the world, so that is also an open plot hole. So she could come in and be like, you're the guy who helped me. Thank you very much. There is a major caveat with this, though, because Crescent City really does seem to be the series that ties all of the mass first together. And Bryce's storyline was about the Starborn Fae, AKA the Prythian line. Ethan's storyline, which we can strongly assume that's going to be the next book, along with Tharion, is more about the phase Shifters, AKA the Tog World storyline. So if anything, I think it's much more likely that we're going to go with the Crescent City world more than Prythian, because we've explored the Northern Rift what about the Southern Rift? What if that is what Ethan does and opens up to Aurelia specifically to Rift hold?
- [106:39]
Nicole
How would that even happen? Because all of the things that they used to open up the worlds are now back in Pertheon.
- [106:46]
Lexi
Magic or hell. Maybe that's where everything comes together. Bryce needs to go into the. I think Bryce's storyline is really wrapped up, but somehow they need to get into the Prythian world to get Gwydian or Narbonne. Hello. Maybe that's how Narvin comes into play. It's actually to get the Southern Rift open, so one can truly only hope. To be honest though, I would love to see the Throne of Glass characters interact with the Prythian characters more than the Crescent City, like Dorian and Rhys or Asriel and Lorcan. Just sitting in silence together would be delicious. Manon and Nesta having a stare off. Aen interacting with truly anyone. Now if this does explore Ethan's crossover with his ancestry, I do think we're gonna get Aelin again because she and Rowan would be kind of more the main face shifters. And especially if Lydia Servos comes into play. Although I could totally see Fenris and Ithan having an entire story together, which I would love that. I would love that so much.
- [107:42]
Nicole
I really don't think that we are going to get the Tog world in the next Acotar book. And I would actually be surprised if in the next Crescent City book there is a lot of. I'll call it character crossover, not necessarily lore and world crossover. I will. I'm not mean needing to burst any bubbles here, but there were a lot of high expectations going into CC3 and possible crossovers and all of that. And even though I was really excited for what we got because I had literally just finished CC2 like a few days before and I didn't have time to go down all the theory holes like Nicole did. A lot of people did not feel like their expectations were met because they were getting so excited about all the potential. And I do worry about that continuing on both with ACOTAR 6 and and with CC4. So maybe I'm just being. I don't want to call it pessimistic, but like I think that there is already way too much going on in ACOTAR 6 for them to bring in the Tog world. I do see there being definitely a possibility of CC4 introducing much more of the Tog lore and things along those lines. Like kind of how we had with Acotar being pulled in with CC3 there. So that's my line of thinking.
- [108:53]
Lexi
No, I think we're very, very along the same lines. Like, would I love a Throne of Glass and Akatar crossover? Yes. Do I see that happening? Within a storytelling standpoint that would be satisfying. I don't. I do not. Now, all of that said, there are some very popular tog and Acotar world crossover theories that we would be remiss if we didn't discuss because we didn't really dissect them very much in our deep dive. I. I do want to say I'm not married to any of these yet, but I'm willing to be convinced. The first is that Elaine is Vog or even Maeve herself. Maeve can manipulate minds. She had everyone believing that she was one of three sisters. She's seer, she fakes a mating bond. Elain is a seer, she's one of three sisters. There's of course the theory that her and Lucian's mating bond is fake. That we're not super. We haven't bought into that. I've seen versions of the theory and while I do think it would be really cool, I just can't buy into it because I'm. I believe Elain is going to be a protagonist, not an evil character. Now, related to Maeve, it's that Rhys is actually related to Maeve. Both are described as having violet eyes, raven black air. They both have very similar powers, especially with the Daimati side of things. What is Rhys's most common theme, especially in Acomaf that we highlighted over and over and over again? It is choice. If you look up the word choice in Norwegian, it's valk spelled the same full stop. Now, it's never noted Rhys's blood color. It is noted every single time. A creature that is killed and has black blood, it is noted on the page. Race is never noted with that. So I don't think he's vogue. But is Maeve related to Thea? Because that's where the black hair, the purple violet eyes really comes into play. And that's also how it's mirrored in Ruhn. So I could totally see that being a thing. And then there's of course the connection that Maeve is related or connected to Morgan. In Irish mythology, Maeve is also known Slash represents the Morgan. It is a little tidbit of info I will say that really blew up up on TikTok recently, especially given that the Morgan is a shape shifting goddess, often being depicted as a crow. I will note that as I was doing my Research for Maeve In Irish folklore, the Morgan connection is not as prevalent as I would have expected. With how much it's blown up recently, I had to do quite a bit of digging before I found this. This relation. So what could all of this mean? I have no concrete answers and to be quite honest, I would be shocked if Maeve made any kind of connection. Specifically considering she's dead Alien killed her in the tog world. So would that mean that somehow she world walked and ended up in Mord's body? That feels like a lot of a stretch for me. However, if Maeve does end up being connected to anyone in the Acotar world, the only repercussions I would say of it is if there is an Acotar Tog crossover, the Todd characters would be super sus of the Prythian characters. They wouldn't trust or get along with anyone. And to be honest, I'm really not hoping for that because I want a Masters crossover where they become friends. Nesta and Bryce eventually did, although Bryce stirred up a lot of shit in Perthian. And I really want. I want buds. I want them to be buds. And then of course my favorite Tog Acotar crossover is that more is a witch. More specifically a croc and witch. I've discussed this endlessly on the pod so I won't get super into it right now, but that honestly feels the most realistic going forward. But I don't think it's going to be a character crossover. I think if anything, like you were saying earlier, it'll be that lore crossover.
- [112:19]
Nicole
I love the idea that Moore is a witch. I would definitely need to see more evidence before I jump fully on that boat, but I love all the tie ins that there are possibly yes. All right, from Ashley, do you think if there is ever a full mass over crossover extravaganza that there could be any mates from across universes? Like maybe More or Asriel's mates are just not in the right universe right now.
- [112:42]
Lexi
I really really want this to happen with a cross universe mating situation. So to start speculating who that even might entail, first we have to look at who is still single, who is not mated and who is a big enough character that this would be a big enough deal. So in throwing a glass Evangeline, this feels very unlikely because she's 12. My personal favorite is Fenris Moonbeam. I would love him to have a Crescent City mate. Especially with the Fenris Fendir names sounding really similar. I feel like that could totally be a thing in Crescent City. Ethan is still single, although it is highly suspected that he'll be with Perry Ravenscroft. Tristan Flynn, he is having four ways with Fire Sprites, but he's technically still single. And honestly, I don't know if he'd be a big enough character for this to be like a. Oh my God. Then of course there's Tharion, who is technically married to Satya, Flynn's sister, but she's clearly not over her ex and I don't think that pairing is going to last. But there's also some speculation that Tharion will be with Ariadne, so who knows? Then there's Acotar. Obviously we have Azriel, but he's with Double Love Trouble right now, so I don't know if he needs more complication in his life. There's more, but she's highly suspected to be with Emery. Similarly with Emery, she's highly suspected to be with more. Then of course there's Gwen. I don't think she's going to have a cross universe mating because she needs to get over Asriel first. And then I guess there's Tamlin, but he needs to deal with some shit before that happens. So the only pairing that I could see make sense out of this entire list, which is very heavily male influenced on here, is Fenris and Gwen. I see that being delicious and fun. However, I do think that Fenris would end up with someone in this, the CC universe and I don't know of any single women who are again a big enough character for this to be a big deal.
- [114:34]
Nicole
With all of that said, my simple answer is no, I don't think that's possible. I think it's very specific to each of the worlds, especially as we tie in who creates these mating bonds. And in the Acotar world, at least legend has it, where it is the cauldron. And in cc they don't have the cauldron. And mating bonds work very, very differently. So I would be absolutely shocked if there was a mating bond across worlds and it would have to be done very delicately for me to. I'll call by it.
- [115:08]
Lexi
I'll say the only one that in my opinion would have worked so splendidly with the books that we have right now is Bryson Azriel. And that's not to say I don't like Hunt. I love Hunt, he's probably in my top 10 book Boyfriends. But I just, I think that that would been the only one that we would, would have been really primed for. I. I don't think it's gonna happen. But it. It was fun to make this list of who's single in these three universes. And you know what? It was harder than you think, because not a lot of people are single.
- [115:34]
Nicole
Oh, my goodness. All right, friends. Well, that's it for Acotar. I can't believe it. Wasting absolutely no time in switching gears over to Empyrean. So goodbye, Acotar. We love you. And it's a revolving door. Hello, Empyrean. Okay, let's do this. Like we were saying, we have so much appearing content coming up in the lead up to Onyx Storm. Please be sure to check out our mini episode where we talk all about that that we posted a few days ago and of course on social media, all of the good stuff. And then we are going to be starting our Onyx Storm deep dive on February 3, two weeks after Onyx Storm comes out.
- [116:10]
Lexi
Thank you as always to our executive producer, Hayden, AKA our sanity manager. We flipping love ya. And of course, do not forget to share this episode with your fellow fantasy fan girls, Acotar friends, so we can all say goodbye together.
- [116:25]
Nicole
And if they're just Acotar fans, they have a lot of listening to do. What was it, 43 episodes?
- [116:31]
Lexi
It was 43 episodes. 100 plus hours. There's all their entertainment they need for 20, 25.
- [116:39]
Nicole
All right, friends, thank you so much for being part of this journey with us. We appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for making these stories even more magical. We love you all. Goodbye.