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- [00:00]
Warby Parker Ad
Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate, and they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.
- [00:30]
Lexi
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [01:02]
Nicole
Welcome, welcome welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls Podcast where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character themes, theories and more.
- [01:12]
Lexi
I'm Lexi, older sister and Fantasy Lore nerd.
- [01:15]
Nicole
And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart.
- [01:18]
Lexi
And today is Episode two of Spark of the Everflame by Pen Cole, where We're covering chapters six, seven through 14. But before we begin this deep dive episode, please listen closely to our spoiler warning. This episode and all of our episodes include spoilers for all three released books in the Kindred's Curse saga, including all of Spark, Glow and Heat of the Everflame.
- [01:38]
Nicole
So if you don't know the importance of meeting a certain blade maker Breck, then please go finish the series. We will be here when you're done.
- [01:47]
Lexi
Next, we A Fantasy Fangirls are adults who say adult things about adult books. In other words, friends, this podcast is.
- [01:53]
Nicole
Rated R. We get a sex scene, friends. And because it's the last one we're gonna get for many, many pages, I'm about to do what I do best, so please be mindful of those little listening ears.
- [02:07]
Lexi
Additionally, we are so excited to see you at upcoming live events.
- [02:11]
Nicole
I am so excited to be interviewing Rachel Gillig, author of One Dark Window and the upcoming the Night in the moth in Denver, Colorado. On May 25th.
- [02:19]
Lexi
We will be featured guests at Enchanticon in St. Louis, Missouri, 15th through 17th.
- [02:24]
Nicole
Then we will be at the Ever Flame Ball along with Pencole, author of this series for the first ever Kindred's Curse Saga Ball on August 30th in Castle Rock, Colorado. Then we will be back at the Dragon Gauntlet in Boyden City, Michigan, September 12th through 13th.
- [02:40]
Lexi
Then Romanecy Bookcon in Orlando, Florida October 23rd through 25th where we're interviewing Rebecca Yarros again at Disney World.
- [02:48]
Nicole
Check out our website or the links below for more information to all of these events.
- [02:52]
Lexi
Last thing before we jump into the Spark of The Everflame Episode 2 if you love Fantasy Fangirls and want more events, more content, more community and just so much more all around, please check out Fantasy Fan Club.
- [03:03]
Nicole
We have three membership tiers that you can join. Number one, the Descended, which includes access to our Boppin Discord live Q&As from Lexi and I. A book club. This month we're interviewing Rebecca Robinson who wrote the Serpent and the Wolf, which is our book club pick for the month. We also have exclusive author interviews like Pen Cole, Callie Hart and so many more community events. Promo codes for for live events plus exclusive designs and 20% off all merch that is for $6 a month. Or you can join the Royal Family which includes everything from the Descended level plus early access to ad free episodes, our full episode outlines and special voting privileges. That is for $10 a month. And lastly we have the Crowns Council which includes everything from the previous two tiers plus more behind the scenes content, a welcome gift, giveaways, a private Discord channel named Kheel. It's aw and very hard to spell. We love it. Plus your name is shouted out on the podcast. That is for $25 a month.
- [04:02]
Lexi
Join the party at fantasyfangirls.com fanclub. The link is also in the show Notes and Really and truly friends, thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts for supporting us as we've turned this podcast into a dream come true. It's all because of you.
- [04:15]
Nicole
And now it is time to venture through the ring road to Fortos.
- [04:20]
Lexi
To start off every episode, Nicole does us the honor of summarizing this stretch of chapters so so gather round as we consult with our royal advisors to discuss what happens in chapters seven through 14 of Spark of the Everflame.
- [04:34]
Nicole
Chapter seven we're off to see the Fortos, the wonderful Fortos of Oz. While traveling the Yellow Brick, I mean the ring road to Lumnos Southern border, Henry asks every question under the sun to get anything out of a very silent, brooding dm. But all Jon Snow imitator has to offer is a few one word answers in return and a handful of lies. But after setting up camp, DM uses all of her pent up anger to glare at the campfire. Henry, seeing this is the perfect moment to make a move, slides on over to the murderous looking DM and bang. Bang, bangity bang. I said a It's been too long DM. Bang. Chapter 8 After a little cavorting in the bushes, Diem drifts off into a not so peaceful sleep, bolting upright from her not at all sexy dream about His Royal Highness Luther Courbois. Diem distinct decides it's time to clear her head. So she takes a deep haha, nice walk into the surrounding forest. Cause nothing would ever follow a main character into a dark forest with ill intentions, right? Crack. Oh no. Something has followed DM into the dark forest with ill intentions and it's not Henry. Spinning around, DM is face to face with a wolf reaching for her daggers, DM's hands come up empty. But don't worry DM. All you need is to have a little faith, trust and pixie dust and poof. No more wolf. Falling back into this time, a very frantic Deluland population 1. DM convinces herself that the whole encounter was similar to her childhood hallucinations. But oh, Henry also saw the wolf. No hallucination there. Crawling back into bed, Dean notices a tattoo on Henry's shoulder. A gnarled tree with leaves of flames.
- [06:08]
Lexi
The ever flame.
- [06:10]
Nicole
Ah Henry, it's time for a subject change quick and second bang. Second bang. Secondy bang. I said I hope you savored that one because there won't be another one for a while. Bang. Chapter 9 DM and Henry have finally reached the Fortos border when zap. A jolt of magic shoots through Diem's body. And after deciding that Fortos magic must be misogynistic, Henry launches into a magical lesson of his own, spilling all the descended magic tea. After a few more hours, DM arrives at a supply warehouse ready to stuff her packs full of medicinal ingredients. But Henry's not the only one spilling tea today. Leona, her mother's old acquaintance, also has some tea to spill of her own, as well as some very helpful life advice for dm. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Especially not about my number one book boyfriend. Tired of everyone else playing 20 Questions, DM tries her hand at a round herself. And let's just say she needs to take more classes on the art of subtlety. Ending with hey Leona, can I have some of this highly classified super secret flame root powder that I shouldn't even know exists? Realizing how much this powder is super duper classified, DM books it out of there like a cat getting a bath. So long. Farewell, Leona. See you never Chapter 10 later that night, DM and Henry decide to stay the night at an inn in Fortos. But sadly for Henry, there's no only one bed trope here. Despite there literally being only one bed in their room. Come on Henry. Why? While enjoying a hot meal and some ale, a man approaches. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Blade Smith extraordinaire Breck Holdren. But hold up. He knows about the Bellator's. More specifically, he knows about Aurelie. Looks like everyone knows aurally, but DM too soon wanting to give the best first impression, Breck gives DM an expertly crafted Fortosian steel blade. What does he want in exchange for this blade, you ask? Oh, just a favor to be repaid at a later date. Chapter 11 Waking Up Before Dawn Henry is still not back in their one bed. Needing to make sure nothing has happened to her Boo, DM wanders back down to the tavern. Peeking around the corner, she sees Henry and Breck talking with a group of men. But in the blink of an eye, DM's vision is replaced with a bloody battlefield. Oh no. The delusions are back. Once she's back in the real world, DM notices one crucial detail about all these men. They all have everflame tattoos. Dragging Henry back into their room, DM confronted, confronts him about the very real meaning of this mysterious tattoo. Not wanting to give DM the full download, Henry pleads the fifth and avoids answering her questions by turning it back on her. That always works well. In an attempt to not kill her child best friend, DM commands Henry to leave. And like the good boy he is, Henry obeys. Chapter 12 on the Ring Road Again Needing to break the silence, Henry opens up about where the seed of his descended hatred grew from and how he's cultivated that hatred into something worth fighting for. And what better way to show your love for a cause than recruiting your girlfriend into your mlm? Unsure of what to think, DM leaves him hanging with a I'll think about it. But that doesn't faze Henry. Seeing a need for a subject change, Henry asks DM one final question. DM Bellator, would you do me the honor of. But DM cuts him off and stuffs him right back into the friend but only kind of boyfriend box. Chapter 13 after two weeks of poring over her mother's records and spending way too many hours playing catch up on all things Descended, she should have already known it's time to take her first shift at the palace. Moira and DM arrive at the front gates and are met with a magnificent iridescent creature, a gryvern. Please welcome, welcome welcome Sarai, you glorious winged amalgamation, you. During what should have been a routine pat down, the guard gets a little too handsy. You messed with the wrong Bellator. Just as Diem puts this douchecanoe in a headlock, Luther waltzes in to break up the party after his flashy display of power. Putting the guard in his place, Luther leads D.M. and Moira into the palace, finishing their checkup of two descended children. Luther jumps right into his own version of 20 questions, but he doesn't get far before they're both looking deeeeeep into each other's eyes and yes, I will be going through each delicious moment. Chapter 14 after returning home, Diem is still sizzling with rage about the entitlement of the descended, seeing that she needs a physical outlet that, sadly, Luther Corbois isn't available to fill yet. Wink, the great Andre Bellator tosses Diem a sword, ready to spar the anger out of her. During their sesh, Andre tries to get DM to open up about her day and what put her in such a pissy mood, and after a bit of typical DM avoidance, she unleashes her anger at the descendant not wanting his daughter to killed for treason. Andre steers the conversation back to a lesson before ultimately heading back inside. Hanging out in their tiny bedroom, DM confronts Teller about his relationship with Lily and needing to make sure he understands that if anything happens between them, she knows a guy who knows a guy. Wow, wow wow. There's a lot that happens this episode.
- [10:45]
Lexi
All right friends, it is time to reach for our foraging magic and unravel key insights, character analysis, lore, foreshadowing theories, and oh so much more. DM and Henry are on the road to Fortos realm of Force and Valor. On the Ring Road to be precise. The Ring Road is a circular trail that connects all nine realms of Amarian. Fortos is Lunos southern neighbor and known for being the headquarters of the Amarian army, the army of descended and mortals that serve the nine realms. Orly and Andre were both in the Amarian army. Say that five times fast. Him a soldier, the military leader, her a healer, and have spent a lot of their lives in this realm. Hence why DM is hoping for a any clues about her mother's disappearance here. But right now she is simmering in her anger after yesterday's events with Moyer's revelations about her mother's fool's bargain with Luther to be the palace healer for life. DM is grappling with the secrets her mother kept from her. And she's mad at her father for acting like their mother's disappearance was a momentary hiccup. And she's angry at letting her life get away from her and not demanding the truth when she had the chance to ask it. And she's most of all mad at the descended prince for taking advantage of her mother. Oh dm, how far we have to go. They're on this trip because Henry is a delivery boy, assumably for his father who is the palace courier. I also really don't know if there's actually a delivery here, but I'll get to that later.
- [12:05]
Nicole
And because descendants magic is tied to the soil of their realm through the forging magic, descendants tend not to leave their own realm, so they don't leave and have no magic. Many mortals believe this is because they feel helpless without it, but the mortals with not having any magic to lose when crossing into different realms, it is often them who are used to deliver messages. Unless they are of the utmost secretive importance, then only a descendant will do the message run. This can also get very complicated with only a few of the nine realms opening their borders to mortals.
- [12:37]
Lexi
But that doesn't stop our little rebel. DM has primarily lived a sheltered, uneventful life in Lumnos mortal city, though she has occasionally traveled to other realms and friends. It is very important for the rest of our stories to know which realms she has already been to, because as soon as you step on the soil of your realm of origin, which is called your terramere, you unlock your powers tied to your realm. However, this is seemingly very rare because descended rarely leave their realm of origin. DM only knows about this from a cautionary tale teller told her from school, but this is exactly what has been happening to her and will continue to happen to her. Even though DM was on the flame route and her powers were blocked, she has unlocked her magical abilities tied to the realms she has been to. So let's go through the six realms DM has already been to, and therefore which magical powers she already unknowingly has. Obviously there's Lumnos with Light and Shadow magic. We've learned already that she experimented with these powers when she was younger, but her mother said these were hallucinations and then she went on the flame route. DMs also made frequent visits to Fortos so her parents could visit their old headquarters. Like her father visiting with old army friends and her mother to meet with the well trained, well stocked army healers. So this means that DM has the power of Forto's healing, like we saw last episode, and even killing by making them decay. Thanks to being rebellious, DM has surprisingly been to Monteos, their north neighbor that is forbidden to mortals. But she and Henry stepped over the border just because they wanted to, right? Just because it was forbidden. Which means she has the power of wielding ice and snow as well as rock. She's occasionally gone to the bustling ports of Miros, Realm of Sea and sky, which indicates she has the power to control the wind and sea. DM has sometimes accompanied her mother on her annual visits to Arboros, Realm of Root and Thorn, because it supplies many of the medicinal, more difficult to find plants they need at the center of. So she can conjure plant life and communicate with them. I'm curious exactly how communicating with plants work. I assume it's being connected to them and like innately understanding. Not like Alice in Wonderland talking flowers, you know. Then there's Faunus, Realm of Beast and Brute, situated between Fortos and Arboros, and also forbidden to humans. And they and Diem have the magical abilities to communicate with and control all forms of animal life. Because it's not specifically stated on the page that DM has been to Phonos, we wanted to double check exactly how DM has been here with a certain someone who might know something about this. Dear friends, let us introduce you to another new bit of this Kindred's Curse saga journey called Phone A Pen. Sometimes we just got to go straight to the source. And Pen was so kind to give us the first of four Phone A Pen answers for today's episode. So let's ask pen about DM's visits to Faunus.
- [15:14]
Pen
When did DM go to Faunos? Diem went to Faunos on the way to Arboros. So we see her talk about how, growing up with her mother, they would go to Arboros and go to the herb markets there to buy herbs for the Healer Center. And in order to get there, they have to pass along the ring road through Fortos, through Phonos, to our Boros. And so when you see the list of the realms that DM has been to, that is the reason why she had been to all three of those realms.
- [15:45]
Lexi
Ah, I love it. This means the only realms DM has not been to are Sophos, Umbros and Igneous. Pin did tell us that DM does use a few other powers in Spark, so we are on the lookout. In fact, Nicole, you spotted one of this episode I'm so excited for it. But she does use her magical abilities very few and far between as she's repelling her powers, and it's not until she is in sync with her godhood that she can use them. Even when she activated her for toes healing magic, she was echoing her godhood's words without meaning to calling for it to fight. The same thing will happen here with.
- [16:17]
Nicole
The.
- [16:19]
Lexi
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [16:39]
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- [17:09]
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- [18:03]
Lexi
Wolf like we were saying last episode, there has been a shift between DM and Henry since her mother disappeared. Not so much between their specific connection with each other, but because each of them are getting hardened by the realities of life. In other words, they're growing up and not growing up in the exact same direction together anymore like they always thought they would. But it's so subtle because as of right now, they still share the same values and ideologies and they gravitate toward the familiarity of each other while the rest of life feels like it's quickly changing. Except neither of them can be fully honest with the other at the end of the day.
- [18:36]
Nicole
DM and Henry have been friends since before they could walk. And him wanting to get her to open up and frickin talk to him. It's not from a selfish or malicious standpoint or so he can get information from the Guardians, at least not right now. He sees his friend hurting and he's worried for her. And then Diem lies to him, confirming that she knows that she can always talk to him. Well about most things, but not about this. Which pause because her keeping something from Henry is a really big deal. Not only for all the reasons we stated earlier, but also because he is quite literally the only person who knows about the flame route other than her core family members and of course the fact that she's gone off of it. No one outside their family, not even Moira, knows about this crimson powder. There haven't been any secrets between these two best friends. Or at least that we know of being in DMs POV. What DM learned about her mother though last episode that seemingly one sided deal that if broken would end with her mother's life being forfeit. It is weighing so heavily on her shoulders, but not only because of the shock of the deal itself, but feeling like she doesn't know who her mother truly is. Henry lost his own mother when he was an infant because the descendant wouldn't grant his father a request to go to Monteos to get a cure for her, and Aurelie became a surrogate mother to him as a result of so in DM's eyes, she can't tell Henry what's truly eating out of her with her mother. How could she admit that the woman he sees like a mother to him made a deal with the very monsters who basically killed his own mother, or that she even very well might be missing because of those same monsters. Just as he's caring for her by trying to get her to open up, she's wanting to care for him by making sure he does not learn about this in her eyes. Betrayal. Meanwhile, Henry knows his friend and reassures her with a quote, your mother is going to come home Dee. I know she will. He might not know about Aurelie's exact mission, at least not yet, and maybe not even the deal that she and Luther made, but he does very much know about what Aurally was doing at the palace, at least gathering information and he knows that she's on a mission for the Guardians right now. So technically, while he isn't lying, he's saying your mother's gonna come home. I know she will. That technically is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
- [20:48]
Lexi
It's his only way of reassuring DM that her mother will come home. He can't tell her anything because of his loyalty to the Guardians. But he's also to ease her distress. Which yes, now with full context makes sense why he is being this encouraging. But it just feels like false hope for DM at this point. And kind of similar to why she's mad at her father with how he's acting about her mother's disappearance not being world shattering like it feels for dm. Also the way Henry words it with praying to the old gods and they told him to have faith. That's him believing in the old gods and the Guardians of the Everflakes who symbolize the old gods and mortal kind. The Everflame is at the center of their old religion and that is the emblem of the Guardians. I thought that was a really cool way how he worded that.
- [21:33]
Nicole
But just like Arlie is on her own mission, Henry's loyalty is also to the Guardians. So he changes the subject to DM's healer visit to the palace yesterday. This is where she healed Lily and was like what did I just do with my hands? I mean a Henry absolutely learned this info about her church trip from the Guardians. I'm assuming it was Lana who shared this info.
- [21:53]
Lexi
I never thought about that. But I bet you're right. Even though she does not share like for instance the secret passageway. I bet she did mention something about what happened with the palace. Plus you know, she and Henry are all buddy buddy already. No, I'm not in a romantic way yet, but they are good friends.
- [22:13]
Nicole
She has a huge crush on him. Let's be real. She is trying anything to get in his pants. But also Henry is doing a little bit of poking around now. He's encouraging DM to take over Aurelie's old position. And it's kind of much to DM's surprise in my opinion. I'm really trying to get my pen coal hat on here. Henry is not encouraging her to take over Aurelie's position at the palace from a place of manipulation. Instead he knows this info might help the Guardians cause. Yes, but he fully believes that both him and DM want the this fight towards the Guardians. They want this fight towards the Descendant. They want the same end goals that the Guardians want. So if DM takes over Aurelie's position, maybe she too could join the Guardians and they will still have a Bellator Guardian in the palace. After all, in order to beat your enemy, you have to know them intimately. A lesson one Arlie Bellator taught him. I'm guessing at a Guardian meeting.
- [23:08]
Lexi
I have a feeling Aurelie and Henry's relationship really shifted after he joined the Guardians and found out that she is their leader. Like hushed conversations squeezed in between the rest of their regular lives. I could absolutely see Henry coming over to their house and waiting for DM to come downstairs or whatever. And he and Orlea. Yes, you know well.
- [23:27]
Nicole
And I bet it solidified even more so that mother son relationship that they really cultivated.
- [23:32]
Lexi
Exactly. Henry views his and DMs recent, I'll call it Disconnect, for lack of a better word, as just a blimp. He knows her mother will return home and there's no reason to mourn her loss because she's going to come back and everything will be right again. Again. So he's seeking to coax the happier, more carefree version of DM back. That was one of his reasons for them to go on this trip together. To get away from the weight of life and simply be together again. Meanwhile, DM is realizing she has fundamentally changed since her mother's disappearance and the veil of naivete is lifting. But it just leaves her lost, confused and so, so angry. Inclined to run away from this life where she can choose her own path. It's hard for her to appreciate the the safe life built up around her because she feels like she has had no say in it. And as that fiercely independent person we were talking about last episode, she's about to reach her boiling point with feeling so out of control of her own life. But you know what's a good distraction from all that anger? Sex. Sex. And doesn't Henry know it again? Goes back to him wanting to give the two of them time alone, to reconnect intimately and let go of their responsibilities and worries. To be like how they used to be. But you know what Henry doesn't know? That's a lot of things. But DM has absolutely zero interest in becoming a mother. If we didn't already feel like there was something off and incompatible between these two. Henry trying to convince Diem they don't need the contraceptive tonic. Because who are we to judge with the old God's blessings? Henry. Sir, this is a romanticy. You're supposed to do what she wants and take the Damn contraceptive. Without question, you get your first official L, Henry. For those of you who don't know, we at fantasy fangirls dish out els, which stands for loss. It's basically the opposite of a gold star. We'll talk more about this stark contrast in how these two see their future soon, but it's on full display here. Henry's all about starting a family with dm, and she's like, hell no. Luckily, Henry's desire to have sex triumphs and he concedes to taking the tonic with a fine, oh, dude.
- [25:35]
Nicole
But then they fuck. How does one describe sex with Henry? In Heat of the Everflame, we will learn that Henry once teased DM for treating sex like a fight, never retreating, never surrendering. She was dominating. She's growling at Henry here to take off his pants, pinning his arms above his head while she's riding him. And as Henry says at the beginning of the scene, I surrender. DM even thinks about how his touch is. Is soft and protective. And he's, quote, gentle to a fault. This is so at odds with the language in my favorite Chapter 72 of Heat, where Diem and Luther's scene, it begins with quote, we detonated. It is constantly this battle and this fight for who can be more in control. After all, she doesn't want gentle or delicate. Quote from this scene with Henry, I wanted to burn. It's funny because in that same chapter 72, Luther will ask Diem what she wants, and he gives her many, many options that make me just kick my legs up in the air and scream. But her answer to him is, quote, I want to burn. I also find it interesting that Luther tells her she tastes like fire. How interesting. The next book is also called Burn of the Everflame. I will be getting to that later, but this is sadly not the Luther sex scene yet. I told you I would do my best. I keep going back to what Pen said in our intro episode. Henry and DM are not compatible in this new stage of life. Neither is wrong, neither is malicious. They're just not compatible with each other. After all, these two are unknowingly running in the opposite directions while still clinging to the familiar. DM needing the familiar because her life feels freaking out of control. And Henry believing that him and DM are still on the same side and thoughts about everything, like. Like about having children, apparently, because he always is known. The old dm. And we see that incompatibility on the page during the scene. I think it can be summed up pretty perfectly that after this whole scene ensues. DM wakes up and she thinks, quote, the release of sex had been hollow and short lived. Woof, my guy. If you didn't already know that Henry was on the outs, then this would do it. But DM is lonely after. After six months of feeling like she's lost something so close to her, she's been retreating into herself. As a result, this door is finally open again. It's the distraction she needs from her problems, from the weight and the anger she has at the world. And Henry is a safe person for her to open herself up to. But despite. After the glow of sex with Henry, Dan lays awake and the flames inside her are refusing to ebb, quote, stroked by relentless frustration. This is not a diss on Henry in bed, as much as it sounds like it. This is her so, so, so angry at the world that even the distraction of sex didn't take the edge off of it. It's almost like instead, because she felt something for a moment, it made the fire more unrelenting. And I burned. And I wondered how long I had until the fire in my soul burned me alive. Lines like this feel so important again. The next book is called Burn of the Everflame. I can't put my finger on it as to why there's a connection, but I'm doing what Lexi does, and I'm just waving my hands around, around, saying there's something here.
- [28:58]
Lexi
Well, she definitely has a connection to the Ever Flame, I think.
- [29:01]
Nicole
I mean, Luther says she tastes like fire. Obviously.
- [29:04]
Lexi
I. I was thinking more along the lines of when they're in the Sophos library and the mural, like, lights up.
- [29:10]
Nicole
Oh yeah.
- [29:10]
Lexi
When she touches it, and it doesn't when he does it. And it's probably because there's some Ever Flame within her. Yeah.
- [29:16]
Nicole
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [29:17]
Lexi
Later in the night, DM suddenly wakes up from a dream about the evil Luther and walks away from their campsite to calm herself after feeling so rattled by the dream. While Henry, meanwhile, sleeps peacefully, so content after their bangity bang. One more instance of how different these two are about their relationship. But then her attention snaps to a hungry looking wolf moving closer to her. Well, shit, this is bad. And she is disarmed. Her weapons are back at the camp. That's a double shit. I love this line. If the beast didn't kill me for my foolishness, my father certainly would. It looks like this is the end for dear dm until all the world fell away, just as it had that morning in the royal palace. Her godhood is stirring in the face of death. And she hears that voice fight. She feels a burning sensation on her skin like a scalding frost. And her hands are aglow with silvery light. So, naturally, DM's immediate thought is, this is impossible. She must still be dreaming. But, nope, not a dream, because this wolf is about to attack, attack, attack. And for the first time, she agrees with the voice's call to fight. This girl's not gonna go down without a fight, even if she has no weapons. That is such a badass move, by the way. Like, it's like, I am going to kill this wolf with my bare hands.
- [30:31]
Nicole
During the scene, there is a moment where DM looks into the wolf's eyes and she feels its ravenous hunger. Quote, an unexpected flicker of shared understanding. Hello, Fatos. Magic on display right here. She is one with the wolf.
- [30:46]
Lexi
That was such a good catch, Nicole. It makes sense, because she is currently tapped into her magic and embracing her godhead, just like she was when she was also healing Lily. Then when the wolf springs toward her, DM raises her hands to protect her neck and closes her eyes while her godhood roars within her to destroy. And just like that, there's a blinding flash that glows red, followed by yep and a soft hiss, and then silence. And strangely, the stink of singed fur. So DM opens her eyes, and the wolf is gone, quote, replaced by a cloud of ash. And then this line, I think is very important. Quote, the glittering black stone fragments now scattered along the forest floor. Hold up, everybody. Did she just poof this wolf into Godstone? That is not the description of ash. The Godstone is in the form of a million floating particles because it is black, black, glittering stone.
- [31:41]
Nicole
Do you think that this is how some of the Guardians got black stone blades and weapons? Because they have a lot more in heat, and it seems like they. Like, they curated some of them. Do you think it's from this moment?
- [31:53]
Lexi
I think that they've been collecting this Godstone for literally centuries. Like that's what the Guardians have been doing in the background. I do wonder if Ophiuchai is also able to create Godstone weapons too, and he's supplying them with that.
- [32:09]
Nicole
I bet you're right. Seeing this cloud of ash that was once a wolf and is now Godstone ash. Apparently, her hands are still blazing with this foreign light. And of course, we have to play our new favorite game. Lexi. On a scale of 1 to 5 in this wolf scene, how Delulu is DM? She is standing here in the clearing, thinking, what Just happened was absolutely impossible. But the wolf was there. She saw it. She heard it. She smelled it. She smells the singe stink now. And yet we. When sprinting back to the camp, all she could think about was how this is a hallucination. She is taken back to a time in her life where she used to play with light and shadows in her room. But like every time she thinks about those faint memories that she desperately tries to forget, she immediately closes her mind off to them. She's gaslighting herself using the same words her mother once did. These are her hallucinations. They're all a result of her not taking the flame route. Because of her being so scared in this moment, the adrenaline is pumping through her. Her hands are shaking. She feels like she can't trust anything. Most importantly, she can't trust her own mind. All as a result of her being told from such a young age that these are impossible. So for that reason, I am actually going to only give this one a 2 on the DeLulu scale. I don't think that DM is really being that delusional. She thinks she's losing her mind. She thinks that this is a hallucinogenic disease that killed her father and is now coming for her. There is no part of her that can feel grounded. And any form of questioning for the truth of it all leading to that Delulu.
- [33:38]
Lexi
I absolutely agree. I give this first round here a two as well, because she has been so conditioned to think that this is impossible, that this is a hallucination. So naturally, that's what she's going to think that this is, you know.
- [33:52]
Nicole
Well, like you just teased, there's a second round of Deluludium here, and this is the one. After she's run back to the camp, she's frantically searching for her flamingo root, so sure that this wolf was a hallucination. But then Henry assures her that this wolf was real. With this knowledge that another person saw the wolf too, she is forced to plant her feet in the. Holy shit. That wasn't a hallucination. And the ash and the light on my two hands were all real. This round of how Delulu is dm, I am going to give her a four, because there is literally nothing to explain away the wolf going poof. Unlike last episode, where she could explain away Lily's quick healing to the fact that Lily's a descendant. So here is every bit of info that DM needs right in front of her. And she knows the Lumnos descended have light magic. What was just surrounding her Two hands light. There is still that part of her brain that is desperate to think that she hallucinated just the hand light part of it, which is the only reason I'm not giving this a full fledged five. Later, she will fully plant her feet in the I hallucinated that I had magic during this attack. And she will go on to think about how when she was growing up and her hair went from auburn to white, her eyes went from brown to gray, she believed that in that moment, oh my God, I'm a Descended. But it was not met with self assurance or calm. Instead, when she had this moment of feeling like she was a Descended, she nearly threw herself into the sacred sea, quote, at the horrifying prospect that I might be one of the monsters from the ghastly stories my friend swapped at school. This is how desperately she does not want to believe she has anything to do with the descended. So while this might be a hi dulu moment of four, but it's also because there's such a huge survival mechanism for her to not cross that knowledge threshold to believing that she might be one of them.
- [35:34]
Lexi
Very good reasoning. I am going to be generous and give the second round with Henry a 3.5 for all the same reasons you said, but half a point less to Lulu, because, number one, Henry is unknowingly gaslighting her too. She can't explain what happened, but he can. And even though she knows in her gut that there was more to it, which. Which is why I'm giving this such a high 3.5 here, she has to lean into his explanation as part of that coping mechanism for her own sanity, which definitely feels like that sanity is slipping away right now. And number two, she does not understand Descended magic. And this is all just so, so new. I think that after she does go to the palace and sees it on display, then that is going to be where it's like, okay, damn, you are running out of excuses here. Like, for instance, you just mentioned that Lun nose light. I don't know if it was Luno's light that turned the wolf to ash Godstone, because I think it might have been her unique powers again that can turn things into Godstone.
- [36:31]
Nicole
You know what? You are extremely right. All right, I'm actually. I'm gonna meet you at your 3.5. All right, lower. You have convinced me. I will lower 0.5 because that is a really, really good point. Well, if we give DM a duly rating, I do feel like it's only fair to give Henry a dulu rating here, too. Now, he was not there at the confrontation with the wolf. He did not see the light on her two hands. She's not telling him about the light on her two hands. And let's be real, he's not also letting her finish her sentences about what happened, Henry.
- [37:02]
Lexi
How do you feel about that, Nicole?
- [37:04]
Nicole
It drives me crazy. Instead, he's cutting. He's cutting her off, saying that she must have spooked it and it ran away. I don't think he's doing this again to try to be malicious or anything like that. I think, like you said, it's unconscious. He truly thinks he's calming her down. He's explaining away with animals being skittish around humans and her being really stressed out lately and thinking that eventually she would snap. Henry, Henry, despite you doing this not with mean intentions, I am still giving you. I guess I'm gonna do a lowercase l. A fucking let her speak, please. No, never mind. Uppercase. This is an uppercase L. Whether speed. She's so stressed out. Let her talk. And B, he's telling her that because of the pressure she's been under, he's been thinking that soon she would snap. She's trying to convince herself that she's not crazy here, Henry. And she literally can't tell what's real and not real. And hearing from someone else that you're just snapping is not the most comforting. I would see red if someone told me that I was just snapping. Anyway, try again. So with all of this said, I think I'm gonna give Henry a three in this DeLulu scene. But, no, actually, I'm too mad. I'm too mad.
- [38:19]
Lexi
Okay, may I share my perspective, please? Because I am giving him a 1.5. What? I agree with you on the L. Maybe a lowercase l. But I don't feel like he's being delusional to her magic and what she must be. He doesn't have the faintest idea that this could be magic. He wasn't right there with her, so of course she must have just scared off the wolf. Everything that happened can, in his opinion, be perfectly explained. Meanwhile, DM is like, that was not my experience. My hallucinations are back. That's why he gets the L, because he's not listening to her because what she's saying doesn't make any sense. And he's like, no, no, that can't be possible. Like, this is the explanation that does make sense. He still does get a rating, though, because he knows about her hallucinations and what he is being delulu about is his girlfriend's state of mind. Mind she is not doing well, like you were just saying. And he's explaining it away because he's trying, in his way, to help her be aware of what he's noticed in her for a while. So wait, if thinking he's helping DM's emotional state is the angle we're giving Henry's dulu. Okay, you're nodding your head. Then I give it a four. The following morning, these two travelers get to the border of Fortos and Lumnos. I love the descriptions of the abruptly different terrain between these two realms. And really between all of the realms that will say sea. Lumnos is lush and leafy with forests, and Fortos is rocky flatlands. The magic of each kingdom is infused in nature itself. And yes, DM is correct in this assumption because the realms as a whole are rooted in forging magic that she'll be able to tap into as a crown. Henry is floating on cloud nine after the sexcapades, thinking everything between him and DM is back to how they were before her mother's disappearance six months ago. Because of course, sex just fixes everything, right? Let's just say DM does not reciprocate these immediate feelings, though she has missed the two of them together, because again, it's familiar. It's in her comfort zone. She tells herself she just needs time to figure out who she is and who they are together. He's oblivious to this, though, and is ready to take their romance to the next level. It only seems natural for them to get married and start a family, right? He's been waiting patiently for her for so long. And now that they're having sexy time again, now is the moment.
- [40:26]
Nicole
But right as Henry is about to pop that ever important question, a painful current shoots up through DM's body. What the fuck was that? But no time to analyze the quick injury, because just as fast as it arrived, it ebbed and soothed away. Ah, yes, because when DM left Lumnosoil and passed into Fortos, the magic of Fortos shoots through her body. But wait, she's crossed into other realms before. Why didn't she experience this jolt then? The previous ventures that DM has always been on, she was drugged with flameroot. So this is the first time she's crossing borders without any. Any substance, dulling that magic that just shot through her body.
- [41:05]
Lexi
And also remember that DM very uniquely can use all of the different magics in all of the different realms when it should be only limited to each of the realms. So for instance, she was very uniquely able to use Forto's healing magic in Lumnos when Forto's healers are not supposed to be able to go to Lumnos and use their magic like that.
- [41:24]
Nicole
Yeah, but naturally these two you air quotes mortals don't think about it as the magic. Instead it can be easily explained away with the excuse of magical wards. But Henry didn't experience anything, so it clearly must only affect women. After all, Fortos is the only realm that has not had a queen. So I almost imagine Henry's like oh yeah, they're just punishing girls for coming into this realm or whatever. But Henry has a very easy reason for Fortos never having a queen. All the realms of have two types of magic. Most ascended only have one type, but rarely some have both. Like Luther for example. Which side note, Henry does say this very casually, but DM had no idea about this, especially due to her mother sheltering her from anything descended, but also because this information is not taught in mortal schools. I would bet anything that the Guardians must have told him this information and that's how he gathered it. However, Fortos magic works a little different and it's tied to your gender. Killing power is for the men, healing abilities is for the women and those who are non binary can experience both. Although this is very rare in Fortos because the magic will always choose the person for the crown who is the strongest in Henry's perspective. Naturally it will always go to the men because killing power will always overpower healing any day. Oh Henry, your fance is showing Henry is in a stage of life where he is surrounding himself with people who do believe that killing will always be the more powerful way to go. This is going to be a major theme of this deep dive, especially as we get into Vance and his influences on Henry. But I'm not going to entirely blame this misogyny on Vance and his radical violent influence because Henry is more traditional. When he proposes to Diem later this book successfully, I'll say he will tell her that she she can stop working and be a mother and a homemaker. And while Diem and us here at FFG are adamant about that being very admirable and not for the faint of heart, but it's not dm. And when it comes to Henry, and honestly a lot in our society, unfortunately there is this connection that this is the weaker role. We see this stigma right here with Henry believing that the caretakers in the form of Forto's healers will always have of this weaker magic. The killers have the brute force, the physical strength to them, and the healers have the gentle touch.
- [43:48]
Lexi
This line of thinking is basically the opposite of DM's perspective. She was raised by Andre Bellator, after all, who taught her how to wield weapons, strategically, use her strengths in a fight and take down her enemies. And she is a healer as well. So she's balanced between that hard grit and strength. Strength and that gentle touch that he's talking about here. Right. Henry pretty much just said she is not as strong or as powerful as a man when her father taught her to be exactly that. And of course, Henry says that he's not talking about her. He backtracks there real quickly. And he might not be talking about her specifically, but she is a woman and he thinks of her in that traditional sense. So yeah, he is kind of talking about her too, even though he's not consciously aware of it. It.
- [44:33]
Nicole
He's putting descended genders in a men equal strong, women equal weak box. And there's no middle ground in his black and white thinking here.
- [44:42]
Lexi
That's also just kind of how it is immortal city too, though, with the women pretty much being homemakers and stuff like that. And DM does have an upper hand because she does have the skills to be a healer and always have work available to her. Yeah.
- [44:53]
Nicole
While Henry is no stranger to putting the descended into these black and white boxes, or I'll even say more just the box of evil, he is much more lenient when it comes to mortals. So it's not entirely surprising that when it comes to mortals, I should say in the army, he talks about how the women are typically in the more dangerous role of spy, giving them more credibility than the descended healers.
- [45:17]
Lexi
Which certainly catches DM's attention. Just the other day she was daydreaming about leaving and exploring the world because she wants to make choices for herself, build her own life instead of following the path she has been put on.
- [45:29]
Nicole
On.
- [45:29]
Lexi
So yeah, the idea of being in the army as a spy is like, that sounds dangerous and very different from her current circumstances and very, very interesting. However, like, she and Henry do agree, DM's a walking red flag with her gray eyes and white hair, never able to blend in. And that's exactly what mortals are supposed to do.
- [45:48]
Nicole
I love that he says he's like, you're the only girl in Amarian with these two features, which a foreshadowing because she's not. There's also a feoker but also DM has not right now but she will have umbros magic. So technically she could do what y' or cell did in the first episode and disguise herself to look a different way so that it's appearing in someone's mind as if she was any normal looking person. I also want to point out that all of this spy talk in the Amarian army is a nice bit of foreshadowing for Aurelie and her background as a spy in the Omarion Army.
- [46:26]
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- [48:24]
Lexi
Even though this trip is because Henry needs to make a delivery, Moira did give Diem a list of supplies they needed back at the healing center. So DMs in an army warehouse browsing medicinal ingredients native to all nine realms, and having a pleasant chat with Leona, a mortal army healer who seems to be in charge of the supply space.
- [48:41]
Nicole
Liana steers the conversation to to the state of the Lumnos king, wondering basically, when is this dude gonna die? After all the passing of one crown to another. It is a very rare thing in Omarion, something mortals might never see in their lifetime, especially because how long the descended can live. But Diem, always holding her healer's vow to the highest regard, only gives short answers in a very indifferent tone. While the king might not be her patient yet, the healer vow is to Neptune ever, ever share any information about patients. And for dm, that also extends to the center's patients as a whole. Again, this HIPAA is working overtime.
- [49:21]
Lexi
DM also has some very strong feelings about the prince who is the assumed next crown, which she kind of accidentally slips about those feelings. And while she backtracks saying her opinion doesn't matter and it probably won't make much of a difference to her life. I love this bit of foreshadowing. Liana still gives her some extra advice. Keep your opinions about this heir to the crown to yourself. Too bad this is DM Bellator, who most definitely will not do that in Luther's presence.
- [49:44]
Nicole
And also, how ironic that she's literally talking to the heir of the crown right in front of her. Both crowns. Both crowns in her realm and also in Lumnos.
- [49:51]
Lexi
We also learned from Leona that the King of Fortos is preparing to send soldiers into Lumnos in case the transition of crowns gets bloody, which does not sit well with Diem. The last thing she wants is soldiers coming in. But that doesn't make sense. Doesn't the magic just, you know, pick an heir and everyone accepts it and life moves on? So much foreshadowing. It'll be a while before we find out about the challenging and politics that go with the passing of power. So while it is designed not to get bloody, there's going to be a battle of power and politics that we will experience firsthand in Glow.
- [50:24]
Nicole
Going into this conversation with Leona, I really started to wonder, is this woman a guardian in the Four Toes cell? I've wondered that too. Yes. She's hella loyal to Arle, saying that she owes Arlie more debts than she can count. She's fishing around for any information about the state of the king and how he's on his last legs. She very much seems to be pro mortal against descended, especially with that line about nothing unites descended more than a mortal who doesn't know their place. And when DM asks about this other work Aurelie might have been involved in, Leona becomes completely still, almost like she knows that exact work that Aurelie was up to. So we phoned a Pen to get an answer to this question that I was slowly, you know, climbing up the hill, ready to die on it. Is Leona a Guardian? Let's hear from Pen.
- [51:11]
Pen
Is Leona part of the Guardians in Fortos? She definitely is not. Leona is very much a true believer in terms of believing that the mortals need to just be okay with their place, accept the descended as their rulers, obey the laws. You can kind of see that in some of the things she says and how she really warns Diem away from looking too hard at anything or pushing too much authority. This is also, you know, why she's in the army and why she's been elevated to as high a role as she has, because they believe she's a very obedient, obedient mortal who does what she's told. And this is really what she encourages Stiem to do. I think that not everyone that Arlie has a relationship with is a Guardian, but that doesn't mean Arleigh was not very skilled at using them to her benefit.
- [52:12]
Nicole
Well, then I'm just gonna. I'm gonna, like, tuck in a little ball and just roll off that hill. While Pen definitely is more forthcoming about answers to our questions, Leona, Leona certainly is not. Remember a huge part about why DM said yes to this Fortoast venture with Henry. It's because she wanted to get answers about her mother's whereabouts. Arlie spent so much time in Fortos, and Leona was a close confidant of Arlie's for a long time. But when DM starts to hint at wondering about this other work, not healing work, but other work revolving around these powerful Descended, that's when Leona is like, nope, shut up. We rapidly shut you down. No, no, no. Leona, after all, is looking out for herself, her livelihood. She can only offer so much maternal advice to DM before she needs to put herself first. I would not be surprised if in the slightest, through living in Fortos, she's seen people get killed for sniffing around on this type of stuff. Maybe even now that she's not a Guardian, maybe even she knew about the Guardian cells and saw her friends die as part of being in them. Now, while DM doesn't go quite this far, she is very much hinting that the Descendant had something to do with her mother's disappearance. So Leona is like dm, get the fuck out of here.
- [53:27]
Lexi
Feeling defeated after pushing too much. DM begins to leave with all the supplies for their healer center. But then she spots a cage hidden in a corner with a familiar something that is vibrant red flameroot. There's even the distinct crescent shaped vials with the powder. Which is the exact same vials DM held every day for 10 years. Quick pause because this makes me wonder if Aurelie got the vials from here here, or if they got the vials of powder from the same source. Like why are they all the same vials? It seems pretty safe to say Leona has definitely not been giving orally. Flame Brute. I just assumed her mother snuck it back with her from Kuril 20 years ago because she's prepared like that. But I'm realizing maybe she somehow found a way to sneak these vials of powder from here right under Leona's nose. Like how though it is strictly guarded in this cage. That's a lot of vials to take over the years.
- [54:19]
Nicole
Years.
- [54:19]
Lexi
Or maybe the Arboros Queen who has been very sympathetic with the Guardians, maybe she has been taking this flame root powder in secret from Korea all these years that she has to go there. And then she's giving them to the Guardians. And then Orly is getting this from the Guardians right in the Arboro cell. Maybe even Aurelie is intercepting the supply shipment of the flame route that does go to Fortos. Because there is some kind of official thing with all this, with it being in that cage of the King of Fortress knowing about it. And maybe she's just been intercepting it. Maybe that's even how the Guardians are have so much flame root at the beginning of heat. They have been intercepting any and all shipments of it.
- [54:55]
Nicole
That would be my guess.
- [54:56]
Lexi
But back to DM in this moment. Because she has been freaking out about her hallucinations returning and not having any more of this powder. Not even knowing where to get it from. Again, all of that from the wolf scene that happened just recently and boom. Flame root is right here. What a relief. Despite her resentment toward the flame root and how it represents her mother's control over her life.
- [55:15]
Nicole
Life.
- [55:15]
Lexi
It has been central to DM keeping her sanity. Or at least that's what her mother always told her. So of course she believes it and needs this crutch. The Wolf incident clearly proved her mother right. She must be going crazy after all without the Flame Root. So huzzah. Leona will just get some of that too, for our healing center, if you please.
- [55:34]
Nicole
Oh, none for you, dm, darling. This cage is only supposed to be opened by the King of Fortos himself. And you need permission from all fucking nine crowns in order to even get an ounce of it. Uh. What? DM has had so much more than an ounce in her entire many years of taking this powder. So it's safe to say that this is extremely fair. That this information shocks DM to her core. She's always known this powder as medicine to keep her from going down the same path as her birth father. So why on earth is it so hidden behind bars to so thick that the crowns themselves have to give permission? It opens up all of the questions. Mainly, what is this powder really used for? Because with a reaction like this, it is definitely much greater than the medicine she was led to believe. It won't be until DM and Henry sneak into Luther's room in Glow when DM figures out that this powder was actually to suppress her descended nature for 10 years. And that's why it's so dangerous. The descendant don't want mortals getting their hands on it and thus taking away their magic. We see how bad that ends up for many people in heat. Ah, but again, this adds much more mystery to the great Arlie Bellator. No wonder this was never talked about outside the family, with the exception of Henry. In fact, even Moira didn't know about the flame root, which I'm assuming is because she would know with being a healer, how extremely rare this is. And she would be like, like. Ah. How the hell did you get this?
- [57:03]
Lexi
And more importantly, why are you giving this to your mortal daughter? If Moira knows what flame root is for, which I'm thinking isn't common knowledge even among esteemed healers. DMs already spiraling about her mother's secrets. And now we have one more big one to add that will leave her even more curious and frustrated with all of these questions and no way to get them answered. Let's welcome, welcome, welcome Breck to the party that evening at an inn. Henry and DM are joined by Breck Holdren, a member of the army and immortal tradesman and also a brother of the Guardians. But we're not there yet. He looks like he's in his late 30s and he has an air of joy and youthful charm.
- [57:41]
Nicole
Brec is wearing the standard issue Amarian army uniform with a nine leafed laurel wreath. Say that five times fast. But you know what?
- [57:50]
Lexi
This calls for a plant watch.
- [57:53]
Nicole
While originally from Greek mythology, the Romans used laurel wreaths as a head accessory to symbolize triumph. Sounds about right for an army uniform.
- [58:03]
Lexi
This intro to a new character is an opportunity for us readers to see DM interact with someone new who gives her a bit of a challenge, but also has some playfulness. She's a woman who knows exactly how to stick up for herself, as she makes it very clear in this interaction. And she's also observant without being, I'll call it suspicious. And she can clap back at jokes without being completely off putting Noticing Diem's.
- [58:25]
Nicole
Fiery nature, Breck clarifies that she is a Bellator indeed, with Andre as her father and Aurelie as her mother, which takes DM aback. Aurelie may be well known among the healers, but as a tradesman in the army, it is quite odd that Brec should know her, especially by name. So when asked how he knows Aurelius, Breq outright lies. This is after there's a swift kick under the table from Henry to Brett saying that he made a weapon for her mother once and that they met in the army and stayed in touch ever since. Which is not true. The truth that DM will learn at the end of Glow when she asks the Fortos king about these two is that they could not have met in the army. Breq was in the army after Arleigh left the Emerian army, so they met in the Guardians, but we don't know that yet. With talk of this blade he made for her mother, Brecht offers one to Diem. This thin blade is made of a smooth darkened metal that can only be one thing. Fretosian steel, AKA the only metal that can pierce descended skin. Its onyx handle was carved with wavering flames on one side and interwoven branches on the other. Ah, it's to represent the Everflame. But this is an expensive blade. Knowing that she could never afford a weapon like this, she tries to give the weapon back to Breck, but Breck takes her up on the exchange instead of payment being a favor, nothing illegal and nothing that involves touching any part of him. But DM agrees to do anything within her power to make that favor happen. Number one within her power is hilarious because at this time there's not a whole lot in her power. But we still haven't seen this favor yet. She is the queen of how many realms now. She has a lot in her power power. So I in fact actually at the beginning of Heat when he's trying to sneak her Onto the boat with Del. He reminds her of this favor. So I think we can say for certain that this favor will be called in at some point in burn. And that makes me a little nervous. So let's speculate as to what this favor could be. My guess is that it will be something for the Guardians. But Breck gives me major guardian who would be on DM's side energy. So maybe his favor will be asking her to spare life, which won't be that hard for DM to do, or on the contrary, to really, you know, provide some tension. Would it be for DM to take a life? Honestly, I'm just pulling random ideas out of my butt here.
- [60:49]
Lexi
It could have to do with Henry or her mother or against some Descended. There is the line DM says, quote, if it's not dangerous, it's not worth wasting a favor on. So that could very well be foreshadowing for a dangerous favorite. Alternatively, as much as it would pain me, if this is the case, Breck is a contender for being Andre's murderer. This would be a very tough look after his interaction with DM and Heat. But you never know. Maybe it is actually him who kills her father and she figures it out and he calls in his favor for her not to kill him.
- [61:19]
Nicole
Oh, especially because when she finds Andre's killer, she talks about how she thinks that she could commit murder so easily.
- [61:26]
Lexi
Yep. Yep, exactly.
- [61:27]
Nicole
Now there is a question I want to focus on right now. And that is why Breck would give her this blade. Is it because he feels protective over the Guardian leader's daughter? Almost like it's an extension of his gratitude for Aurelie? He's in the Guardians. So is this him trying to like welcome her should she join? And that way she can protect herself against the descendants should she end up in sticky situations like she definitely does. Is this with her being Andre's daughter? I'm assuming not. Because there's like anti.
- [61:57]
Lexi
Andre. Yeah.
- [61:58]
Nicole
Yeah, but there is that. He knows Andre and he knows that her, his daughter, would know how to fight and take care of herself. So is this line of thinking like you're going to know how to use it and you know, if you and Henry have similar values, you can use it on the Descended.
- [62:12]
Lexi
That's what I'm guessing. I'm. Again, I assume that he doesn't know that she's going to be the palace healer yet. Like, there's no way that he would know this information because technically Moira hasn't even agreed to it yet. So I do think that it is. He's assuming that she's gonna be part of this fight as well. Especially because she's here with Henry and he's probably like, okay, like, here's your welcome gift.
- [62:33]
Nicole
Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too. Yes, yes, yes.
- [62:36]
Lexi
DM leaves the boys in the tavern and heads upstairs to her and Henry's room and falls asleep after sitting in her spiraling thoughts for a while. Like Nicole mentioned during consult with our royal advisors, the fact that there is only one bed, and it's barely mentioned, mentions just how much these two are not meant to be. But hours later she wakes up and Henry, Henry's still not back. So feeling.
- [62:56]
Nicole
And also the fact that Henry's not taking advantage of the fact that there is one bed that they would share with each other. Like, my God, you have a sex addled head.
- [63:04]
Lexi
After that, the Guardian to work on. Okay, that's just.
- [63:09]
Nicole
That just shows his values are not in the right place.
- [63:12]
Lexi
So, feeling a little worried, DM goes back down the stairs to the tavern. And Nicole, where does she accidentally begin eavesdropping on a group of eight men.
- [63:21]
Nicole
In the dining room? Of course, there's one word that sinks in more than any other as she's eavesdropping, and that word is war. But what war could they possibly be talking about? After all, Emarian has been at peace for the whole 20 years she's been alive. And her father, who was very heavily involved with the army, has said nothing about a war. It will be a few weeks from now that Andre will send in his. His acceptance to go back into duty. But I bet you anything he at least knows about this war and about how they will probably request him back into service. Not via a formal letter, but he's probably just heard it through the rumor mill. This is yet another instance of DM being very, very sheltered. There is the war that the mortals of Mortal City are fighting every single day. It's a fight for food, respect, and to end this oppression that they've been under for so many years. But while she sees these instances in her patients and her work on Paradise Row, there is this whole other side that frankly, hasn't really sunk in yet. Simply because she has not been allowed to be around them. And Henry will point that out to her very directly next episode. At this stage, the war the Guardians are prepared for, it has not elicited enough notice to have the Amarian army rise up against them in a formal call to arms. But give it a few weeks as we will see with Andre's letter. But Diem regardless starts start reeling. Because if war is upon them, Teller will be called into fight. Her father will go back into his old position, as he will if war is coming. She could easily lose the last two members of her family and also Henry. She would be alone. Something that after the loss of her mother, she cannot seem to face. Unless she chose to leave her work as a healer and instead pick up a sword to fight. Almost like the name was hollered out for roll call. The voice. A voice inside Diem says, here, here. I'm here.
- [65:09]
Lexi
Fight.
- [65:10]
Nicole
And a tingling coats her skin as the world around her goes hazy and dark. And in its place, a vision takes hold. DM is standing on a battlefield that is aflame with silver fire. She is wearing a deep black armor that hides the evidence of gore and mud. And in her hand is a gold handled broadsword with with a dark onyx blade decorated in scrollwork that almost seems to glow from within. It says, one ring to rule them all. One ring to find them. One ring to bring them all. And in the darkness bind them. It doesn't say that we don't know what it says. But surrounding her lays a ring of dead bodies, both descended and mortal, who appear to have been thrown back in a huge explosion with her at the center. And standing nearby is a shadowed figure. DM notices the difference between this vision and her hallucinations. Air quote from childhood this feels much more like fate is calling her. And you know what? We've got questions. Is this DM using a type of magic? The only magic that would make sense here is Ambrose, given that Father Ambrose would send these types of possible outcomes to yr cell. But Yersel does mention that they seem to be sent to her from Father Ambrose himself. So is this Fortos sending DM a vision?
- [66:31]
Lexi
I've wondered about how these visions come to her as well as how they've come to the other crowns too. Because I don't think it's just Umbros who has been seeing these visions and stuff like that. Like I think Monteos as well. Like he knew what was coming. And we can't forget that Luther has also seen a vision that was from Lumnose, but he will also see the same vision as she does in the Armory explosion scene scene. So I think it's the Kindred or the magic of the Kindred giving them these visions. Maybe from specific ones like Father Umbros or Lumnos or even what Montes hints at, you know, Having seen in his letter to her, we'll have to keep an eye out for that. Or maybe ask Pen if she'll answer that.
- [67:09]
Nicole
We'll see if she answers that.
- [67:11]
Lexi
This is only the first time that we are introduced to this vision, and it'll keep expanding with more details every time. DM has it throughout the series. So for this first vision, we're going to keep it only to really what's on the page here, because I'm not going to go too crazy with the theories that we haven't seen yet. Number one. A battlefield of flame with silvery fire. I don't think we've seen silver flames yet, except in DM's visions where she is the one to conjure the silver flames. Number two, Armor of the Deepest Black. I wholeheartedly believe this is the Godstone armor that Elix is working on and will have people wearing it in Burn. This is the sword that Stuart gives DM for the Sophos battle, which used to belong to one of the kindreds. I. I can't wait to go through all the scrollwork stuff. Lifeless bodies of the descended and mortals lay in a broad ring around Diem, like they were thrown back by a massive explosion. I'm not sure if this will be coming from Diem or Ophiuchai, since it seems to come from him in a future vision. But Diem is also known to explode. Like what happens after her father's death. Though I can't imagine her doing it. And all these people dying.
- [68:16]
Nicole
I could imagine it being like a. Like an explosion of power from Ophiuchai, but they do seem to be in a ring around her. Yeah, yeah, That's.
- [68:27]
Lexi
It could also be him creating that explosion around her.
- [68:31]
Nicole
True. And like. Oh please. That's. That would fuck her her. Fuck her mind sideways. Coming off the high of the vision, DM notes this new intoxicating sensation being powerful that left her feeling just as intrigued as it did quite unsettled. This is a theme that I really do want to keep in mind as we explore dm, especially DM next book. We are very used to reluctant leaders in our deep dives here at FFG. In fact, I think of the three FMCs we have deep dived, two of them heavily lean into that reluctant leader trope. But DM is different. She dances on this line. She is both a reluctant leader in the way that she never sought power and instead it seems be to to be thrust upon her. But when she starts to experience it in the form of being queen or these visions, she does become reliant on it. And the clout that that title brings her, it makes her feel more confident in moments that she doesn't really have a whole lot to grab on. And like she says here, this feeling of being powerful is intoxicating.
- [69:33]
Lexi
Exactly. And yes, she will be very reluctant in what it takes to be a leader where it's not always a win win situation to. She is very Kumbaya. Right? But she has the heart and dedication to the people to be the leader that they need, even if it's at odds with, well, societal structures and prejudices and lots more challenges that we will get into later. So I love that balance between. She is kind of a reluctant leader, but not really because she wants to be the leader that the people need. She's just reluctant in what she has to do to get to that point.
- [70:09]
Nicole
DM's attention is brought back to the men around this table because remember, she's still in the dining room. While she doesn't know it, in this eavesdropping moment. These members are members of the Guardians of the Everflame. But pause. Because we've talked about these Guardians, but we haven't really said what the Guardians of the Everflame are. Long, long ago, during the Blood War, the descendant fought a group of rebellious mortals. Mortals called the Guardians of the Everflame. This name goes heavily along with their mission to bring back the ways of life that mortals had before the Kindred. And then the descended came in and oppressed them. During and after the Blood War, the descended thought they crushed all the rebel cells, but some survived, and they have been operating in secret for years.
- [70:56]
Lexi
And with the Blood War being centuries ago, that is generations of Guardians, they've.
- [71:01]
Nicole
Been gathering weapons and information to someday be strong enough to fight back and actually win this time. And in most of the realms, they do have secret Guardian cells. I'm assuming Henry is the only one of the Lumnose Cell. And he's giving some information here to members of the Forto Cell about what's happening in Lumnos. They're exchanging info, all that kind of stuff.
- [71:23]
Lexi
That's what I'm thinking too. And I also have to wonder if there even was a delivery for Henry to go on this trip or if it was a fake reason for him to come to Fortos and be part of of this Guardian meeting. Then he can bring back news to the Luno Cell. He's got the perfect job to easily go between realms without suspicion. Just like Orly did as a healer. Yes, DM notices every man here is repping the same exact tattoo she noticed on Henry while they were traveling here. The tattoo is of a gnarled tree with leaves of flame inset in a circlet of vines. It's the sacred Everflame. The tree of life and death. And a symbol of the old mortal religion. Don't worry, the Everflame will be a future sofas library topic. But the idea is that all life began as sparks from Everflame. Ah, get at the beginning. Sparks of the Everflame.
- [72:07]
Nicole
I love it.
- [72:08]
Lexi
That fell to the earth as glowing seeds. And at death those worthy of the gods would become part of the forever burning branches. Their souls forever warmed by the undying fire. So here Diem is noticing this same illegal tattoo on all the gathered men. Remember, she doesn't know that this is a Guardians meeting quite yet, but she sure has an idea of what she's witnessing.
- [72:28]
Nicole
DM caught a sight of this tattoo on Henry's shoulder. Knowing that some of the more mortals still cling to the secret faith of the Old Gods which are now outlawed in all of the nine realms. Henry admitted that this is, you know, a few months old tattoo. It's just to honor the old gods. And then he immediately starts ravishing her again. To change the subject, this reasoning behind the tattoo is kinda true. He's honoring the Old Gods by being part of this mortal rebel group. By standing up and fighting against the oppressors who outlawed as much of the Old Gods religion and history as they could could. He is honoring the old Gods by bringing them back into this fight. By attempting to bring that old religion and beliefs and way of life back into this world. So in his eyes, being part of the Guardians and having this tattoo is honoring the old Gods in the highest order.
- [73:16]
Lexi
However, all references to the Everflame and the Old Gods are outlawed across all nine realms. As DM chided him when they were on their way to Fortos, when she saw this tattoo quote, they'd flay the skin right off your page back. Now I don't know if this is an exaggeration from dm, but I don't really think so. The point is, Henry's life would very much be at stake. And now here she is noticing the same illegal tattoo on all the gathered men.
- [73:42]
Nicole
Now this does bring me to a question. Do you think aurally has a tattoo? The Guardians of the Everflame tattoo? I don't think so either because I feel like a Andre would see it and in his role in the army he would Absolutely know what that symbol is meant. And also because of her role as spy, there's no way she would have one of those.
- [74:01]
Lexi
Yes, that's my guess too. I don't think a tattoo is required to be part of the Guardians, but some people, especially the men, see it as a way to truly dedicate themselves to the cause, no matter the risk. But others, like orally, know that they need to be a little bit more undercover. I'm not saying the women are smarter than the men, but I'm just not saying all that other stuff.
- [74:22]
Nicole
I will say aurally is smarter than this group of men who have their own tattoos out as if it's, you know, something of pride, as if it's something to ban them together. But then the second someone walks into the room, they're like, oh, no, no, no.
- [74:34]
Lexi
Yeah. And I can totally understand the meaning behind the tattoo and why they have gotten it. I'm not saying they're stupid for doing that, but it is a risk that they are absolutely willing to take because some of them have it like on their shins and things like that. It's like these are not an intimate heads. Yeah, it's not an intimate area, you know, like it just shows how much separation there is between these mortals and the descended. Where it would be uncommon for a descendant to have the opportunity to see any of this.
- [75:04]
Nicole
Well, and there is that courage in numbers, Right. When you are around very like minded people, you tend to have a little bit more courage to flaunt your values, right?
- [75:13]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [75:14]
Nicole
And I think that's exactly what is on display in this scene. Upon noticing DM stepping into the room, she and Henry go upstairs to talk about what the fuck this Tree club tattoo is on about. DM is furious that Henry's been lying to her specifically about this tattoo meaning. But like many arguments, it's not really that one sided because as Henry turns her accusations back on her, he points out that she's not exactly been forthcoming with him about what's been happening with her lately. And listen, it's fair. They're both keeping secret secrets from each other. Dan doesn't want to tell Henry about her issues with her mother's lies because like I said earlier, she doesn't want him to feel betrayed about her making a deal with the descended. Plus, after that disastrous conversation with Leona, she is terrified about what this flame route exactly means for her. And if Henry knows anything, it might end with him being targeted too. Then with Henry, he's withholding information because he knows she she's burdened with so.
- [76:13]
Lexi
Much right now, and secrecy is so important with the Guardians. I think he's been planning on nudging her toward the idea of the Guardians. That was another reason for this trip. But hasn't been the right time. And she hasn't been, well, stable enough to take something on like this.
- [76:27]
Nicole
Plus, she's already been pulling away from him. She's been sinking back into herself for six months. He's been trying to be a constant for her, but also for the chance to be that romantic, supportive partner for her again. Even if it's not what DM needs. Needs, Henry still believes that he is doing what she needs most during this tough time and burdening her with a lot of this information he doesn't think is what she needs. And then, of course, like Lexi mentioned, there's that small rule that he can't tell her anything about the Guardians. And those are rules he holds so much value in. While we don't know if Henry knew about Arleigh's insistence on DM not being involved with the Guardians, I'm assuming not to the degree, at least, that Arleigh was very forthcoming with the. But he did know that, yeah, he would need to hold his secret in for Arlie, AKA the woman who's been a mother to him.
- [77:18]
Lexi
See, I kind of think she gave him a direct order to not get DM involved. Kind of like DM when she gives the order to not include Teller in all of this. And Henry pushes back, probably because he's like, that hasn't worked out so well. You wanted a choice, so you should give him a choice too.
- [77:34]
Nicole
Okay, I could see that. That does make me start thinking about. So we know that Henry is. Is in Mortal City, at least the last time that we saw him in Heat. So I do hope, actually, that we see a scene where Henry and Arlie interact. Because I would love to see her see the impact that Vance has had on him and almost bring him back into her less.
- [77:58]
Lexi
But what about Henry? I thought you two were in love. Like Mom. A lot's changed.
- [78:08]
Nicole
Oh, I love it. Moments like this in stories are so hard because in this argument, neither person is right. The truth of the matter is that these two are just growing apart, like we've been saying. And they're finding that they can only cling to the familiar of each other so much.
- [78:24]
Lexi
In his anger, Henry throws back at DM that she, quote, hasn't exactly been stable lately.
- [78:29]
Nicole
Wrong. I said there's no right or wrong. This is wrong.
- [78:33]
Lexi
That's not the Right thing to say. Mr. Henry Pants. Even if which she does, DM feels that she has been unstable lately. It's one thing to worry about her own mental state now that she's off flame route and learning these secrets about her mother and then especially after the wolf incident, like she is already having these thoughts to herself. But it's another thing entirely when your closest friend, the person that you rely on for stability and familiarity, charity throws that in your face for hiding something from him. She is so tired of people keeping secrets from her, even if she has quite a few of her own, which doesn't help with this feeling of drowning and not having anyone to keep her afloat.
- [79:11]
Nicole
You know what would really make a person calm down is telling them they're unstable. Add this to the list of things that would make me see red.
- [79:20]
Lexi
Well, in her own way, that does happen to dm. Right now.
- [79:24]
Nicole
As this argument it heats up, DM starts to notice that voice overpowering any logic or common sense fight. Going back to what we were discussing last episode. For 10 years, DM has been under this emotional fog. The ability to lean towards common sense was never really an exercise because it was always fuzzy and she never had that intense emotion to have to choose from. So adding this fuel to the fire. It's like this thing that has been inside her for 10 years of being quieted. It has 10 years of being quieted to make up for. And now it is not backing down. The anger coming from what we will soon know as the godhood. It urges her to spit back at Henry awful, unforgivable words. But more so, it encourages her to do the exact thing that it's saying.
- [80:12]
Lexi
Fight.
- [80:13]
Nicole
This voice wants her to hurt him, quote, break his bones, claw his skin until he bleeds. DM holds her value of healing, never harming, as close to her to chest as her most valued law to live by. And now she has this thing inside her that feels so out of her control, it's almost like it's taking over her body and her actions.
- [80:31]
Lexi
It's like the nightmare monster from One Dark Window.
- [80:34]
Nicole
Yes, that's exactly what I thought too. Oh my God, I'm just waiting for it to rhyme. While it absolutely horrifies her, it simultaneously captivates her and purrs to her. It's been a minute since we've done.
- [80:49]
Lexi
A purr on the podcast.
- [80:51]
Nicole
We will learn in Gloria glow of the Ever Flame, that one's godhood is not a separate entity that takes over a part of you as a person. But right now, in moments like this where DM's fear for her godhood is ingrained, it's one reason it makes it so incredibly difficult for her to access next book.
- [81:08]
Lexi
Yep. And she feels like she's always fighting against it. It's only in moments where she and her godhood agree that she taps into her magic, like with healing Lily or poofing the wolf.
- [81:17]
Nicole
That mutual agreement realization is nowhere near being acknowledged in this scene because, as we will see the following, DM feels completely tainted by it. And like, she's breaking. And this, like, breaks my heart. And simultaneously makes sense. She believes wholeheartedly that this thing taking over her is the same illness that made her father go crazy and eventually lose his life. And the only thing she has to control it is laying at the bottom of this sacred sea. It's impossible to get, and the only person who knows how to obtain it is missing. DM feels so helpless, a feeling she is very much not accustomed to. And like there's nothing she can do to stop this internal breaking. Breaking with fear coursing through her at the thought of breaking his bones, tearing off his skin, or whatever she was gonna do to Henry if he stayed in the room. Even though he does seem to have backed down and even apologizes to her. But the fear of what she might do wins out. So she screams at him to go.
- [82:12]
Lexi
The next day is awkward silence filled with tension. In the aftermath of their fight, DM can't stop reflecting on how she really did almost hurt Henry. She used to be carefree, spitfire, and proud of it, but it was made up of courage and innocent mischief. Now she feels destructive, a step more than even just reckless. She's out of control of her own thoughts and feelings, and it terrifies her. So DMs the first one to break the silence and tell Henry he was right. That's certainly a straight shot way to have the makeup conversation be underway.
- [82:43]
Nicole
The way that they make up is kind of sweet. I will give that to them. They both say that they're sorry, specifically Henry saying that, you know, with everything that's going on, mentioning how he knows her too well to try to get her to talk about her feelings when she's not ready. And he says, quote, but you know, I'll be there if you need me, right? Always. No matter what. See, it's moments like this where I'm like, okay, Henry, this is good.
- [83:08]
Lexi
Good job, friends. Now that these two have made up, I think we are overdue for another new segment of the Deep Dive.
- [83:14]
Nicole
And.
- [83:15]
Lexi
And it is called the Henry hat where we put ourselves in Henry shoes. We put our Henry hat on, if you will, and look at his decisions, actions, behaviors, everything from his perspective because we totally get it. It is so easy to automatically label Henry as a bad guy and we agree there are plenty of moments where he is extremely unlikable, to put it simply, and needs a good punch in the face. But what we love to do on the show show is to take a step back and ask ourselves and Pen frequently why he is doing what he's doing. Here's the thing though, looking at situations from Henry's POV is not always going to be easy. Hence I'm not just wearing regular hats. The farther we have to reach to analyze this from his pov, the crazier he's being. The crazier my hat. Today though, we're discussing Henry's motive to join the Guardians and why he's all down with the descended crowd. So for this Henry hat, it's very tame. I felt like a Robin Hood hat would be fitting for why he's drawn to and is loyal to the Guardians. So I hope you enjoy my Robin Hood hat. For those of you watching this on YouTube, we've already talked a lot these two episodes about what the Guardians represent and how this is so fitting for Henry, who despises the descended. The Guardians of the Everflame embody the drive for change. Instead of festering and loathing and helplessness, they're saying enough is enough, enough. And working behind the scenes to rebel against the Descendant. The mortals are unimportant, unworthy in the Descendant's eyes. So here they are, ready to stand up and fight back. To say yes, we matter. The Descendant have never listened to the mortals. They disregard them. So the Guardian's mission is to have their voices heard and to make the descended pay attention to them and most importantly, see them as a threat. In order to do that, they need to be smart about gathering resources and information to use against the descendants descended. They need to be strategic about where and who to target to weaken the Descendant and send a message. Prove that they're capable of gaining the upper hand. I mean, that's exactly what Aurelie's mission is right now, with the goal being for the mortals to take control of Kuriel, where the Kindred Temple is. We'll talk about at least Vances at any cost. Methods much more when we get to the armory explosion. So here's Henry, a young man who feels that hatred for the Descendant boiling over. As Pen expressed in Our intro episode, we have to keep in mind Henry is not doing the things he does for selfish reasons. Being part of the Guardians and dedicating himself to the cause is actually selfless. He knows the risks, and he's willing to take them for the hope of a better future for the mortals. Because in his heart of hearts, he wants his people to have a better life. They deserve a far better life than what the descended dictate. He's channeling all. All this hate into something productive, something that has a real chance to gain momentum and fight back against the Descended. And it's a growing group with a clear mission, not just scattered individuals being mad. Nothing unites people more than a common cause fueled by high emotion, unrest, and centuries of oppression. He's ready for his voice to be heard, and it's not necessarily his individual voice, but the voice of the mortals. And he wants to be part of that. Enough is enough. Together, the Guardians can stand up against the dissent Descended and make their collective voice heard. We also know that Henry's mother died a preventable death. But King Ulthar wouldn't help his father get the only medicine to cure his mother from Monteos, where mortals were banned. That indifference to his mother's life initially fueled Henry's hatred of the descended because of them. And thinking they're superior to mortals is why he didn't grow up with a mother, though it's the story he shares with Diem on the way back to Lumnos that drove him to join the Garden Guardians. A year ago, he watched a descended kill a mortal boy while the boy was making a delivery in Luno City. The boy, around 14 years old and just out of school, was delivering crates of pears from a farm out west. And he didn't see a gigantic horse with a descended man riding and going way too fast down the busy road. This horse ran the boy down, and the descendant barely stopped. In fact, he was mad at the boy for getting mud on his jeweled saddle. Henry told him that the boy was dead. Dead. And the descendant didn't care. And he just kept on writing. It may have been an accident, Henry even admits that. But the complete disregard for this young person's life and his needless death was the last straw for Henry. He was done letting the descended trample mortals, literally and figuratively, and to think their lives are worthless.
- [87:35]
Nicole
And I think in that moment, whether consciously or unconsciously, it reminded him of his mother. Eamon as we were will learn as a descendant, in that moment, he looks at the corpse as if it was nothing much like how Henry feels, the Royals looked at his mother's life.
- [87:48]
Lexi
Yes. So Henry made it his mission to kill this Descended, not caring if he died in the process, because that would be very likely. But then Immortal man found him and told him, instead of dying a meaningless death, Henry has the opportunity to do something bigger to get back at the Descended. And that's how Henry joined the Guard Guardians. He was ready to be an individual sacrifice just for the hope of the Descended. To know what it's like for a mortal to take one of their lives like the Descended do all the time to them. But now Henry has a far greater purpose and it is a spark that he needed to channel this hatred for the Descended and this desperate need to rise up and fight back that has been roiling inside of him.
- [88:28]
Nicole
So question. Do you think that this man was Vance? Is that the reason that Henry feels so loyal to Vance Vance? Because he fully believes that this man's presence and offering to join the Guardians that day was a gift from the old gods?
- [88:41]
Lexi
I definitely think it was Vance. Yes. Hands down.
- [88:44]
Nicole
In many heroes journeys it's all about the protagonist finding their purpose. And as DM notes, this is Henry having found his. He has a new glow in his eyes. He's full of joy right now. It's easy to see why. Hence why the hat is not that crazy. He is fighting for for something he believes in. And right now that looks like passing information from cell to cell. And for right now that's what we're going to focus on.
- [89:09]
Lexi
Oh yes, this is a for joining the Guardians as we know it right now. So that's Henry's honestly very understandable reason for joining the Guardians. It is a noble cause that he is being part of. And I really do commend the mission that at least Orly has had with the Guardians. Because what the descendant are doing doing is not right. And I love how Pen puts us in the Guardians POV in this first book so we can really understand where they are coming from and why DM sympathizes with them. Right. Henry is committed to improving the mortals lives once and for all. Because his own terrible experiences with the evil descended have shaped who he is. Their oppression has driven him and many others to want to fight back. Okay, I'm going to take the hat off now. These experiences are very different from what DM has personally experienced. Which like we talked about last episode is next to nothing. She only knows of the Descended as the oppressors, which is still an I hate Descended and they need to pay for what they've done to us attitude. But she'll never be willing to go to the lengths that the other Guardians, including Henry, are willing to go to. She may feel this new sense of anger at the descendant after her mother's disappearance, but it's been stewing for years with people like Henry, compounded by terrible, deeply personal tragedies. They're out for violence, while she simply believes in what they represent. It won't be until she's really introduced to this prejudice personally when she goes to the palace in a little bit here. And then of course, when she goes through her own tragic experience next episode, as she tries and fails to defend a mortal mother and her half mortal son from his descended father.
- [90:47]
Nicole
Dan begins to press Henry on some rather important questions. Like who is this mystery man that we both believe is Vance? But there is one big rule for the Guardians. Absolutely no revealing anyone's identity. Although there are people who she should know in this group. I love how he's like, no revealing anyone's identity. But you know, some of them. And one of them's a woman. Yes, because when she goes to her first meeting, she will notice Lana, the apprentice here, healer from last episode, some of her patients even. And of course one person DM knows very well will be absent.
- [91:17]
Lexi
Her mother.
- [91:18]
Nicole
Henry is such a believer in this cause, which is why he takes this rule with the utmost importance, as we've been saying. Which is one reason why he won't tell DM about her own mother's involvement, which not at all related. The leader of the Guardians is a woman. Yay. Progressive progress in Lumnos. Reading this book for the first time, this was one of the moments where, where I was like, I think that's her mom. That's definitely her mom.
- [91:41]
Lexi
Oh, absolutely. I think I texted you, or I posted in the Discord, or probably both, that the Guardians leader had to be her mom. Like I remember when I was first reading Spark and it's like, okay, like I feel like this is a little bit predictable and it does have a lot of predictability to it. You know, like with DM being magical herself. However, Pen is fantastic at taking what we expect and what we think it will happen and then twisting it a little bit more. Not only is her mother the leader of the Guardians, but her mission right now is planting bombs on this island.
- [92:16]
Nicole
Yay, Arlie. Yes, this leader is Arlie. I love that SDM gets excited and expresses her hopes to meet this, you know, mysterious woman leader someday. Henry's Eyes, quote, softening with some inscrutable emotion. And he tells her that, you know this leader. She's a force to be reckoned with, who's much like dm. I am trying to put my own Henry hat on. And I can see how in his mind, he is so at odds with wanting to tell her in this moment, but in his mind, it's like giving her this little bit of nugget of info. It calms that guilt within him, and it's like, that'll just have to be enough for now.
- [92:53]
Lexi
Yes, definitely. Henry tentatively explains that the time to act against the descendant is coming soon.
- [92:58]
Nicole
And.
- [92:58]
Lexi
And that the Blood sun on Foraging Day was seen as this message from the old gods, but what they really need is to have more mortals on the inside. And this is when he asks Diem to join the Guardians. Her access as the palace healer would be invaluable, where she can directly find out their weaknesses and maybe even test out poisons by telling them it's medicinal. Oh, Henry, you just asked DM to break her healer's vow, which is sacred to her.
- [93:26]
Nicole
The way this invitation is phrased is one of the biggest neon signs, in my opinion, that the Guardians have been run by Vance for six months. I don't know why I'm blaming everything on Vance this episode, but I kind of am. Henry knows dm. He knows these types of actions are against everything she stands for. But I think he's also so excited about sharing the prospect about what the Guardians are capable of doing that he kind of forgets to present this in a way that would be much more suited for her. And I'll be honest. Honest. I'm actually glad he doesn't, like, twist it and, like, make it more presentable for her. And instead, he talks more openly, even if it's definitely the wrong thing to say. If he muddied, what exactly they would want her to do, it would feel manipulative. And I truly do not think that's his intention right now.
- [94:12]
Lexi
I agree with you. Yes. And I'm also gonna put a little bit of this on dm because she heard their true intentions.
- [94:20]
Nicole
Oh, I'll go off on her. Naive in a minute. Yes.
- [94:22]
Lexi
And it's like, girl, they're like, I understand where she's like, oh, well, if it's just gathering information, it's like, but he just told you. It's so much more than that. Like, she gets mad at him for what they do to that small child to, like, set up the whole healing thing. And she's like, oh, they would never do this. And it's like he literally told you that they would do something like this.
- [94:42]
Nicole
Oh, yeah.
- [94:42]
Lexi
Henry realizes his mistake in trying to get DM in on breaking her vow, so he switches tactics. Tactics to something that is not so directly at conflict with her healer vows. She can at least pass along any information she overhears among the descendant.
- [94:55]
Nicole
As DM starts to think this through, she ponders her own ability to gather that information and how it would protect innocence and not harm the guilty. Here's that naivete right on full display.
- [95:07]
Lexi
She realizes this might be the exact kind of chance she's been waiting for, where she has control over over her own future. All DM wants is to make her own life choices. And, well, this most certainly would be one where her mission is to protect more innocent mortals while not violating her healer's vows. And maybe the Guardians can help her find the truth about her mother. And this would be a productive way to channel her. Building temper, demanding to fight. But still, even sharing information could break the trust required between healer and patient. And she can't fathom breaking that.
- [95:38]
Nicole
Something that Pen said in our intro episode is to really pay attention to attention to that naive, idealistic ism of dm. She is very idealistic in a very non idealistic world. And this is one of those times that believing this group would be an opportunity for her to help, not harm that. It's so obviously on display.
- [96:00]
Lexi
Later on, Henry will be like, what did you think we do? Overpower them with power of friendship? I'm paraphrasing here, but that's basically what he said. And it's like, yeah, that is kind of her line of thinking because she is so against harming anyone. So he has to like, maneuver. I'm not saying it's manipulative, but a little bit where he's like, oh, no, no, no, no. You don't have to hurt anybody. You can just do this instead and it'll all be dandy, but we'll hurt.
- [96:23]
Nicole
People so you can fix them and then you feel good about it, and.
- [96:27]
Lexi
Then you don't have to actually hurt the people, but your information will lead to hurting people. And she's not putting two and two, two together right now.
- [96:36]
Nicole
High off revealing this truth to his newly rekindled boo, Henry changes the subject to a different proposal. A marriage proposal mawage. Henry admits that he's loved DM and has loved her his whole life. And while it is a very true statement, the truth is that he loves the DM he's known his whole life. The flame root, dm. The DM who was lied to and gaslighted. The DM who wasn't necessarily quiet or obedient, but who felt like there were others who were making the calls over her life that she didn't really feel like she had full autonomy. But things are different now. And while he might feel like they've fallen right back into their old romance and nothing has ever changed, the truth is, for dm, everything has changed. She's terrified of this monster living in her own skin. She's seeing visions. She's seeing magic. She's feeling so angry and out of control. And after a tumble in the forest, she sheets. DM Feels like she needs some time to figure out who the hell they are, separate and together as these new people. Earlier, when DM catches Henry and his tree club, Henry thinks she's mad at him because of how late it is and how he's still out and not in bed yet. And she cuts him off with a quote, I don't care that you were out late. I'm not your wife. And Henry flinches upon hearing this because he's literally about to propose to her. And here she is implying something. Something very not proposal, like. It all comes down to this one very important question, though. He says he loves her, but does she love him in the same way she loves him as her longest, closest friend? But a romantic love is something that really does not come easily for dm. She pushes that emotional intimacy aside and even guffaws at the thought of binding oneself to another, as we will see when she learns about mates in Glow of the Ever Flame. Right now, she doesn't really know or trust herself to know what true love for a partner is. And it makes sense. It's not like there's been a whole lot that she can trust about herself right now, but I'll say it's definitely not. When your partner brushes their hand over yours and it feels like sandpaper, that's not it. No, no.
- [98:44]
Lexi
I do have. Real quickly. I do love when Penn told us that. That a few of her Beta readers initially liked Henry a lot more, and they actually liked him more than Luther. So she had to go in there and change a few things to make it very clear that he is not the love interest. And I feel like things like this are like. And she's like, I think I might have got a little too hard.
- [99:05]
Nicole
Maybe the sandpaper is one of those things where it's like, you can feel that way about someone who you love dearly, as clearly as we see on this page. But it's just. They're just not meant to be. Yes, I do have a quick note for Henry. Just one. Just one big one. If you're attempting keyword attempting to propose to a woman, maybe, just maybe, don't bring up the other girls you've been with and saying how you were biting your time.
- [99:35]
Lexi
Just a thought.
- [99:37]
Nicole
I get why Henry does think that this is the right time though. He's just opened up about this huge secret to her. He sees this future so clearly for them, with him fighting as part of the Guardians, her fighting alongside them. They're acting on a mission that he believes they are both fully aligned on his assurance in this proposal and his future decisions. It all feels so clear. But for dm, it's not like that at all. And especially after last night where she literally almost hurt Henry. So as Henry begins the question, everything in DM screams to run away. So she does the next best thing. She interrupts him.
- [100:16]
Lexi
Hold on. That is the first time I have ever heard a best thing and interrupt in the same sentence coming.
- [100:23]
Nicole
That's because he wasn't about to say important life changing information and instead he was saying, will you marry me? She shares that right now with so much uncertainty. Quote, I'm so happy that I can be with you and just relax without any pressure. Is she deflecting because she doesn't want to turn him down?
- [100:45]
Lexi
Yes. Yes. I mean, I know. No. Yeah.
- [100:48]
Nicole
The real answer is that she has no fucking idea what she wants. And she calls herself a coward, but quite frankly, I don't know if I'd agree with that wording exactly. Could she talk openly with him and tell him how she's feeling? Yes, but that's not fun storytelling. I think she's terrified to acknowledge that she is mainly the one changing and this version of herself doesn't mold with Henry anymore. And at the end of the day, she's not ready to give up that familiarity, that thing that we keep coming back to.
- [101:15]
Lexi
Two weeks later, back in Luminous City, DM has officially convinced Moira for her to be the new palace healer and begin her descended training. So DM gets a crash course in learning about healing descended and what their biggest weaknesses are. For her first palace visit, accompanying Moira, AKA her onboarding. We're back to onboarding, everybody.
- [101:34]
Nicole
Where's Alice when we need her?
- [101:37]
Lexi
I was like, would we consider Moira to be Lisa from marketing? It's like I, is she more like hr?
- [101:42]
Nicole
She's more like hr. I would give her. She'd be Helen up from hr. Helen. Helen. She's a Helen from hr.
- [101:49]
Lexi
She's a Helen from hr.
- [101:50]
Nicole
There we go.
- [101:51]
Lexi
If you're wondering what the heck this joke is, just listen to our Acatar cover. Okay? DM is going to help check up on the two young boys who were injured in the accident a couple of weeks ago. No secret entrance this time. Gotta use the front door.
- [102:03]
Nicole
A moment of appreciation for the gorgeousness of this castle. We talked about the stunning light show that is the back half of this castle last episode. But from the front, the palace appears to be molded from glittering moonlight. However, it is just as ominous as it is magnificent. With shadows moving on up and down like vipers ready to attack. I find it so on brand for the descended to have the back of the palace, the places that mortals don't see. It's beautiful and it's inviting light. And then the front is this intimidating, shadowy blackness. The welcome committee seems to be a mirror of the front of the castle though, AKA it's not welcoming at all. From the get go of their interrogation being called just mortals to the way that their questions increase in root. Moira is very used to this and follows every instruction with an obedient quality. But that's not really in the cards for DM on a normal day, and especially not for when she's in fight mode and already pissed at the descended.
- [103:00]
Lexi
It's like everything she expected of them toward mortals is playing out. And it's one thing to know it as a fact in society and entirely another to experience this prejudice firsthand. She is a confident, independent and fiery individual. She doesn't put up with this kind of behavior directed at her. And for the first time, she is way out of her element. This is not Mortal City. This is a new place with new rules. And she does not like playing along because that goes against who she is at her core.
- [103:28]
Nicole
So when they ask her to get rid of her weapons, that's a big fuck no from dm. She never goes anywhere without being armed. They're as much a part of her daily wear as pants. Remember, DM normally takes patients in the more seedy areas of Mortal City. She's used to being armed when she's in dangerous places. And now she's about to be in the most dangerous place of them all. At least in her eyes. And the thought of being unarmed. A lesson that Andre literally drilled into her. To say being unarmed is to court death. It's not even a question. Side note, because of this interaction where Luther sees how important being armed is to her. This is why he will deliver knives to her room on her first night in the palace. Palace. Oh, we love a watcher. Listener. Maybe not a watcher. We love a listener.
- [104:13]
Lexi
These two mortal women are being treated with disrespect, condemnation and prejudice. And yeah, DMs trying to stay in control of her temper as the guards metaphorically stomp on these two palace healers. But when one of these guards gropes DM and purposefully brushes his hand against her breast just because he thinks he can because of her lower status, that's when she's like, nope, you crossed the line. Yes. Go dm. Huzzah. Good for you, girl. When she snaps, her years of training with her father take over, and she easily puts him in an effective arm lock. Ah, yes. She thinks to herself how she expected these descended guards to, you know, be more of a challenge. But little does she know now that she's off the flame route, she is much stronger than she realizes. But her actions do lead to the other guard holding a knife to Moira's neck. Oh, dear, that's bad. While another guard has his blade up and lunges for DM after she taunts him.
- [105:07]
Nicole
Then a booming voice comes from the top of the landing. Stand down. Welcome back to the party, Prince Luther Kourbois. While the other guards follow his orders. I think at first believing that he's come to, like, put the mortals in their place, which is why they have no problem exaggerating the circumstances. That hands this guard that literally DM is holding on to an arm lock says, quote, they attacked us. A few things here, the use of the word they not referring only to dm, but also to Moira. Because to the descended, they are one and the same. If one acts out, why not punish both mortals? And number two, the showing of entitlement, very specifically, leaving out the part where this guard groped her and is so disturbing and so based in realism. The second that a hopped up on ego person gets caught taking advantage, AKA the guard in the scenario, they try to tell a version of the story where they are the victim to the judge at hand. And that is very much on the page here, thank goodness. The judge at hand in this scene is the wonderful Luther Courbois, who not only listens to Diem's version much more than his guards, he even punishes his guards for much muttering, quote, watch your back, mortal. Under his breath. And Luther twists shadows that sear his skin with sizzling light and thorns. Yeah, my guy. But this also allows DM to bring her weapons into the palace so long as he's escorting her. After all, he basically just showed her that if she acts out with those weapons, he is more than capable of fighting back and easily winning. On first read, it is understandable for readers to be like, why is he going so fucking easy on her? But it's not until later that we realize the full depth of his leniency. He can feel her magic in the air and he knows she is more powerful than anyone, so automatically he's assuming that she is going to be the next crown.
- [107:02]
Lexi
Well, and then Luther feels like he's been destined to serve the crown, not be the crown like everyone else thinks.
- [107:09]
Nicole
And piggybacking off of that. We just discussed this last episode, but he's had this vision from Limnos telling him that he is going to serve the Gray Eyed Queen and he believes this is her. Also Luther is half mortal, so I assume a little bit of this punishment towards the guard for the mortal comment is because of that.
- [107:28]
Lexi
And he's such a gentleman and these guards behaviors directly reflect on his leadership as high General. So yeah, good for you Luther for putting them in their place and showing DM that you, you don't stand for that kind of behavior and it will go punished. He's already trying to earn DMs trust when he knows that she doesn't trust or like him based, you know, off of their last interaction when she healed Lily. Because yeah, she really doesn't like Luther and tries to ignore the annoying warmth pooling inside of her. Oh goodness damn. Good luck with that. While I don't think this world has faded mates, there is an undeniable attraction between these two that we'll talk a lot more about mates and these two and how that all works later on. And it does include a magical attraction to one another. Something inside DM awakens when she feels his otherworldly powers detonate. For one, she doesn't realize she can feel his powers because she herself is a powerful half mortal slash, half descended or something else. She just thinks that everybody can feel this right now. And number two, her godhood likes him. It's calling to him. And later on they'll be like, ooh, our godheads like each other. And I do think that that goes back to the mates and all of that where it might not be fated mates, but it's like a magic. What's the right word?
- [108:41]
Nicole
Magical pull to each other.
- [108:43]
Lexi
Yeah, but yeah, exactly. It's like a magical pull toward one another, that it is inevitable, this attraction and all of that.
- [108:50]
Nicole
One of the things I love in the later books is whenever one of them like uses power, they get so horny for each other and try to climb each other like. Like trees. Like I love that.
- [109:02]
Lexi
But of course, DM is steadfast in her own outward disdain for him as she views Luther as a threat. In part, it stems from her deep seated resentment of the descended, and she sees Luther, a prominent descended royal, as a symbol of the regime she despises. And then of course, she understandably believes he has something to do with her mother's disappearance. DM strongly assumes he kidnapped her mother or killed her mother her. And the reason she's no longer around is because he needed to take her off the board. With all of her blackmail against him, DM has to hate him. Otherwise what kind of mortal who lost her mother is she? But this line sums up Diem's feelings toward Luther perfectly. I threw him my nastiest scowl, fighting my blush with everything I had.
- [109:42]
Nicole
DM and Moira may be here for a very specific healer's duty, but Luther has an agenda of his own. Finding out what exactly Diem Diem knows around Arlie's previous work here. Once Diem clarifies that her intention is to take over her mother's duties in her absence, Luther asks the all important question. All of them. Yep. All is in italics. And yep, because he knew Arlie was doing so much more than just healing members of the palace, he's asking here as close to outright as he can. Are you taking over as palace spy? I wouldn't be surprised if he's also wondering if her taking over Arlie's position would also be her taking over Arlie's position of helping him smuggle out half mortals.
- [110:23]
Lexi
That's exactly what I thought he was referring to. More so, especially because he knows that she has to be a half mortal herself.
- [110:30]
Nicole
See, I was thinking it was spying first, helping him second.
- [110:35]
Lexi
Okay, I would have flipped the two of them. I think that he's talking about all of it though. Yeah, Yeah.
- [110:39]
Nicole
I mean, basically he's fishing to see around how much he knows, which he quickly realizes isn't a lot given her reaction, which is nothing. She gives him no response.
- [110:48]
Lexi
As a mom myself, anytime an FMC is genuinely great with children, I automatically have a soft spot for her. The scene is tense between DM and the Lumnos women, showing this us versus them on full display, but has a little bit of humor with the cheesy dad jokes that DM says to the kids. She doesn't want them to see her as a threat or be scared of her her. So she's determined to lighten the mood with the children. Plus, she's got excellent bedside manner and knows what to say and how to act to keep these young patients distracted as they do their checkups. And during this, Luther's locked gaze on DM softens a little. It's like, okay, you can be nice and you are good with others. In the midst of tension, I bet it's him cementing that blessed Mother Lumnos was right and that this gray eyed woman will be the best leader for these two different people. People.
- [111:33]
Nicole
I also guarantee that there's something very unconscious inside of him that's like, she's great with children. She'd be a great mother to your children someday. But moment for long gazes is over for now. Because while Luther and the child, she's tending to treat DM with no different a demeanor. The two descended women are nothing but snarky. Telling Diem that quote, I shouldn't be surprised that a poor dying child is what you people find funny. Oh, that was the wrong thing to say, lady. I really also want to know which Corbois cousin this is because we do know that she is the Corbois cousin of Luther's.
- [112:08]
Lexi
I wondered about that too. And I would have thought that at the dinner, you know, in Glow, when she goes to the cousin's dinner, that she would have noticed these women and there would have been some kind of tension between them or something like that. And we never get that kind of interaction. So true.
- [112:23]
Nicole
I didn't think about that.
- [112:23]
Lexi
Maybe because these are women who have children, they didn't go to the cousin's dinner.
- [112:29]
Nicole
I'm kind of thinking that too. Like maybe they're like on the older end of cousins. Like maybe they're at the older cousins table and these are the younger. Like wild, rambunctious. Yeah.
- [112:38]
Lexi
Which advice for people who do not have children and you do have friends who have children. Please still invite us to the fun things. We might not be able to go, but the invitation means everything.
- [112:47]
Nicole
Absolutely. But this dying children comment is not what DM wants to hear. Because nothing could be left less funny than a dying child. For DM as a healer, she treats children who are dying every single week. She lost one at the very beginning of this book because he tried to fix his starvation and was stabbed for it. She knows that when winter comes, more will die and there's nothing she can do to stop it, but they could stop it. These people have enough gold, finery, food to fix every one of those problems in less than a heart heartbeat. But rather than be affected and listen to the words that Diem is saying, these two women scoff and blame the other mortals for not taking care of their own. I keep going back to a line from another fantasy story we love so much. You preach peace while only having known its privilege. While this descended might not be preaching peace, but rather condemning the mortals for not even having peace in the first place. Because in her mind if they really wanted it, they would would take care of each other and just have it already. But it's because of her status that she only has known this privilege, but she's taking that privilege and filtering it through very narrow minded arrogance as well. Where she and the other descended don't even have a desire to learn about the mortal struggles to survive because in their opinion, that's the mortal's problem. Now that she has been granted closer access to the descended, almost every interaction DM has gives her this new sense of anger after years of being separated from them. It's almost like this crash course on this is how the descended view mortals and seeing it, hearing it firsthand, it gives DM this building ferocity that will boil over next episode. As Henry will say, once your eyes are open to all the terrible things the descendants do, it can be overwhelming. It gets hard to focus on anything else but stopping them. Seeing DM's anger when she arrives home, Andre has only one word for her quote outside. Andre has always trained his children to be the best soldiers and to handle themselves in a fight. But sparring isn't something they've done together for a while, at least since Aurelie left six months ago puts into perspective just how DM's anger at the world must have been all over her face when she arrived through those doors, and.
- [115:00]
Lexi
How well he knows his daughter and how much she needs to channel this anger right now and maybe talk it out in the process. After letting some of the intentions initial bubbled over anger release, DMs no longer in this sheltered life tucked far away from the Descended. Now she has been to the palace and had very bad interactions with them, where she was blatantly treated as less than, openly identified as an enemy and accused of being willing to harm children when harming anyone, especially children, is unheard of. But of course the Descended don't care. She's just a mortal to them. Understandably, DM is fuming at these injustices. Sure, she's always cared about how terrible the Descended are, but in ways that affected her, where these injustices were right in front of her. Now that she's exposed to the true reality of the society and these Descended, she cares in a new way. More like the Guardians way, where it's not about the individual but the collective whole and figuring out how to push back, how to fight back.
- [115:57]
Nicole
After a sweat is quite worked up from Spark, DM finally cracks and lets the reason behind her anger show, asking her father how he stood it, how he stood serving the Descended in the army to which he says, quote, I didn't serve them, I served Amarian. All its people, mortal and descended. While it takes her a moment after getting the crown, DM will adopt very much this mindset as we see her shift into that for the people leader. Especially in Heat of the Everest Flame, where someone's blood or lineage doesn't result in an automatic putting them into a category of good or bad, it's not about picking a side mortal versus Descended. It's about being a force for good in the world and to protect Amarian from whatever enemy it faced, no matter what blood runs through their veins. This is according to Andre and no matter what quote, if you can't be stronger, be smarter. DM will cling to that strength like it is a lifeline at the beginning of glory. Strength of wit, strength of character, strength of showing up in a show stopping outfit. But we really start to see her shift into that be smarter first towards the end of Heat and I can't wait for her to fully embrace that and burn.
- [117:07]
Lexi
I do agree with you going into burn with her, having to lean into her smarts because she won't be able to rely on her strength of power anymore when she's up against her sire who is even more powerful than she is. As far as we can tell right now, and especially in GLOW and most of Heat, she will be just kind of relying on that raw strength and like flexing the power that she has because that's kind of all she has in this world, that she does not know the rules of the game.
- [117:33]
Nicole
Absolutely. DM may not be a Bellator by birth, but upholding Andre's lessons, values and pride in the Bellator name has always been so important to Diem and will.
- [117:44]
Lexi
Frequently reference these lessons that have been ingrained in her since a small child throughout the deep dive because they truly do shape who she is as a person, as a warrior and as a politician. That's why we're talking about this so much in these early episodes, because it really does lay the foundation of who she is as we get into her further along in the story.
- [118:04]
Nicole
But pause because this got me thinking about the name Bellator, which, you know I love a meaning behind the name. Bellator is Latin for warrior. Make sense? But this also got me wondering about Auralie and what her maiden name could possibly be. Especially because most names in the series have meaning. So let's round out this part of the episode with yet another wonderful phone, a pen to ask what Arlie's maiden name is.
- [118:31]
Pen
What is Arlie's maiden name? She does not have one. She has one, but it's not mentioned in the books. It will not be mentioned in the book books and it's not really relevant. I did think a lot about whether to include some background on her parents and grandparents, and I sort of went back and forth on it because I have in my head this idea of who her family is. But we have so many characters to follow, so many backstory stories to follow. So I decided this one time we will let it lie. Does that mean that her heritage is not important? I'm not saying that, but it means that if it's important, it's not necessarily because of her last name.
- [119:18]
Lexi
In this magic fueled segment of the episode, let's tap into our umpros magic and turn our full attention to important foreshadowing moments for the rest of this book and series, including speculations for book four.
- [119:28]
Nicole
Burn DM thinks about the deal that Luther had with Aurelie and how it was all almost too one sided to be believed. And on paper, yes, it was very one sided. But Arleigh got a lot of secret benefits too, learning about the descendant in the heart of their domain. She also got her youngest child into their school, getting even more information about her enemy.
- [119:49]
Lexi
In fact, I bet she encouraged the bargain. It wasn't Luther who laid out the rules of it so she could secure her position in the palace beyond 10 Heller's school years, and with her and Luther working so closely on other matters like with the half mortals and such, it's probably an easy way for them to communicate in secret. With her continuing to go to the.
- [120:09]
Nicole
Palace, DM thinks twice during this stretch of chapters about her gratitude for having no enemies and no threats on her life. Hold on to it while you can, DM darling.
- [120:18]
Lexi
That also is such a good point about how out of her element she is when she does have threats on her life life. She is kind of A bull in a china shop in a lot of glow and heat. And it is because she is a 20 year old girl who has lived like a mortal and who has had no enemies or real threats. And now it's surrounding her and she has no idea what to do or how to deal with that. So she just does the best she can. Which we will definitely talk all about that later. On a similar note, when DM thinks that this is all her sad, unimportant life will ever be. And then again about how she's never had anything resembling power in her life life, you will certainly become oh so important and OH so powerful.
- [120:59]
Nicole
Ms. Bellator, we learned that Fortos has never had a queen and I cannot believe we didn't talk about this. It will soon give it a few months. So this is more speculative, but there's so many moments and mentions of Henry being Diem's enemy. It's when they're about to bang bang, bangity bang and they talk about knowing your enemy intimately. Then when Henry admits how how DM could literally kick his ass in a fight and she's like, yeah, we will later get mention of them someday being together on a battlefield, but not sure on which side. Will they be on the same side or the opposite? Is this all foreshadowing for them to be on the battlefield together and him officially be labeled as her enemy? Because we might feel that way, but I don't think DM does.
- [121:42]
Lexi
I really struggle with how in the world they could both be on the same side.
- [121:48]
Nicole
I think that this is how it could happen. If Henry has a moment where he is with Aurelie and Aurelie basically slaps him upside the head and says what the fuck are you doing my guy? I did not train you this way as a guardian. And him kind of with like a tail between his legs going over to her side. I see him being on Arleigh side, not so much DM's side.
- [122:11]
Lexi
I agree with that. I also am going to be very curious to see if DM and her mother and how they'll be together. Because DM's enemy is Ophiuchai and Vance and that group of the guardians who actually don't like Orly, who have said that she's too soft. And then there's orally side which are more of the call it good guardians who definitely want to see a big change and all of that, but they're a lot more strategic. It's not just like kill all the descended because they know that the descended do. I'LL say, have their place in this community. Right. So I don't know how it's all going to work out because I don't know. We're getting way too ahead of ourselves. This has a big question mark next to it about whether. Whether it's speculative or not. But it felt like it needed an honorable mention after back and forth mapping out this outline. And that is the dream DM has at the top of chapter eight. We are so used to deep diving other stories where every single detail of the dream means something. But I'm pretty sure this is just DMs POV of Luther and how much she's in turmoil over these revelations about her mother's bargain with him and how she'll have to replace her mother and kind of have to face. Face Luther. But at the same time, Nicole here did fight very hard to analyze this dream and what it could mean. Like maybe the line about you or the boy and it's foreshadowing for DM being put in a terrible position like yourself. The Emperor's queen says she will have to do like. I don't know how to say that because I love Teller so much. And maybe it's also even foreshadowing for Luther and dm, you know, choosing each other. I don't know. I'm just grasping at straws here.
- [123:42]
Nicole
It's so funny because after reading that chapter, I was is like, it feels like there's something here, but I couldn't even begin to guess what it is. So that's one of those sections that after reading Burn, I want to go back to reading and see if there were any Easter eggs that just we couldn't even begin to speculate with the information that we right now know. Speaking of something kind of similar, in the wolf scene, there's not one, not two, but three mentions of the moon and how DM feels connected to it or something like that. So I am officially calling in a Moon watch. This brings me to a theory. We know the Kindred don't die like the Descendants or mortals traditionally die. We know that part of Lumnos Sigil is a moon. So what if Lumnos died and then became the moon?
- [124:31]
Lexi
That's so when the moon hatched of.
- [124:33]
Nicole
You see, I was thinking more Avatar the Last Airbender, but. Yeah, that works too.
- [124:38]
Lexi
That too, yes. With all of DM's worry about the Guardians tattoos being noticed and the consequences that could lead to that, do you think someone like one of the other crowns will spot Henry or Breck or someone else's ever flame tattoo. And the tattoo will end up playing a bigger part of the story.
- [124:56]
Nicole
You know, this is so unlike me, but I don't. I think the tattoo part of the story has been wrapped up because I don't think they're being quiet about being part of the Guardians anymore, tattoo or.
- [125:04]
Lexi
No, that's a really good point. Yes, indeed. And I do think that the tattoo is a representation of. Of the collective voice, you know, like how they are brothers really in that way too. Yeah, yeah.
- [125:16]
Nicole
In Leona's warehouse, upon seeing the flame root, DM thinks about how every morning her mother would give her, quote, a pinch of the bitter powder, a pinch later in heat, when she is captured by the Guardians. It is not a pinch that they give her. They give her three spoonfuls per cup and they're like Arlie said, it only needed this much, but she's really powerful, so let's give her a lot.
- [125:40]
Lexi
Leona also warns that the descended unite against a mortal who doesn't know their place. We will also find out that they unite against a half mortal young woman with white hair and gray eyes that goes by dm. After seeing the tattoo on this group of Guardian members, DM smacks her palm lightly against Henry's shoulder and he staggers back, eyes wide with surprise. Our girl does not know her own strength now that she's off the flame route. She is so strong and, and it sent Henry off balance.
- [126:08]
Nicole
Imagine if she jerked him off, just ripped the damn thing right off.
- [126:18]
Lexi
Along with how she demonstrates strength with the Lumnose guard. I can't help be like, oh, dulu diem, I hope you enjoyed these low scores I've been giving you because you are quickly running out of excuses.
- [126:29]
Nicole
Henry tells DM that he's trying to get his father to let him help out as a palace courier so he can intercept royal communications. A, I wonder if he was inspired to do this through Aurelie's work. And B, this will happen at the beginning of GLOW when he runs smack dab into DM Queen for the first time and is like what the fuck?
- [126:48]
Lexi
Orly used to say to young DM that she had hoped these delusions her sire had would not pass on to DM and she won't let her daughter end up like him. Orly might have told a lot of of lies to hide the truth, but this does have some honesty to it. She hoped his descended blood would not pass to DM and he was crazy and possessive and tried to stab his Newborn daughter in addition to, you know, he has magic. So, yeah, she does her best in every which way to ensure DM does not end up like her father.
- [127:16]
Nicole
We learn about Godstone in this stretch. This is an extremely rare material that when used on a descendant, it. It leads to a gruesome and painful death where there is no known antidote. So much here. Number one, we will see this type of wound try to take down my sweet boys Luther and Terran in heat. Number two, we do know of a cure. Officially, it is DM's blood. Hooray. And number three, Diem mentions in this passage that, quote, godstone, a rare material, could only be made by the kindred. Kindred. Only made by the kindred, you say? How interesting how in Glow, Dia made a whole slew of it.
- [128:00]
Lexi
And in this episode. Yes, exactly. And in this episode too. Like, I know. Like that's it has to be, right? Yes, it has to be.
- [128:09]
Nicole
Pen, you fucking genius. She also thinks about how this exact information is what Henry's little rebel group would want to know. And technically they already know about Godstone having some leftover from the war. But given that these are also Arlie's notes, I guarantee you she's told him everything she's written down here. Another thing, she thinks that the Guardians would love to know of a secret passage into the castle, which, yeah, damn, they would love to know. And you're gonna tell them.
- [128:36]
Lexi
Oh, geez, I'd feel terrible for bringing this one up. But after Andre and DMs bar, he tells her how proud he is of who she is, and she offers up a silent prayer that he won't live to regret those words. Well, he will live to scold her when she's the queen, but he won't mean that he isn't proud of her. And then he'll be murdered. Moving on past that in Indian on a high note, DM thinks about how she would never fall for a descended man and how she would die before she got too close to one of them. I'm pointing and laughing at you, dm. But then, of course, Teller will be there for her and be supportive in his own little brother way. When she and Luther do get together, like she and his are promising each.
- [129:15]
Nicole
Other, it is time to enter the Sophos Library, where each episode Lexi guides us through a world building topic to help us deepen our understanding of this world and its magic.
- [129:25]
Lexi
Today's Sophos Library topic is an overview of the nine realms of Amarian. Amarian is home to nine Realms, each named after an immortal sibling known as the Kindred. These nine realms, Lumnos, Fortos, Faunos, Arboros, Igneos, Ambrose, Mellow, Sophos and Monteos, are laid out in a gigantic circle with the sacred seat in the middle. The realms are interconnected through the ring road. This road runs through each realm in an unending loop. We're going to start with Lumnos, which is to the west, and work around the continent counterclockwise. A map of the Amarian continent and a quick overview of each realm is provided on pin's website. You can find the link in the show notes. And thank you for that webpage because it really helped with today's sofas. Like so. Like I said, we're starting with Lumnos, the realm of Light and Shadow. Their magical ability is to control light and or darkness. Their eye color is blue. Lumnos terrain is known for its large, lush, leafy forests. Luminos's sigil is a crescent moon inset in a shining sun. The ruler is King Ulther. His reign began long ago, ages before even the oldest living mortal entered the world. But he was not yet king during the Blood War, so sometime in the centuries between that he's gravely sick and expected to die soon. Sarai is Lumnos Gryvern. She is a female. She is alive and well and we can't wait to talk about her more. Don't worry, we are talking about her this episode. We did not forget about her introduction. Lumnos is known for its artists and artisans. The elegant descended who live within this realm are obsessed with wealth, beauty and power. The mortals here are permitted with some restrictions. Lumnos is one of the more mortal friendly world realms, but options for mortals are still very limited. Technically, they are permitted to live in Lumnose City, but none of them can afford to do so. In very special instances, with royal permission, mortals can attend descended schools, as we see with Teller. But again, that is very, very rare. Mortals and Lumnos descended are strictly forbidden from intermarrying, and any resulting pregnancies are forcibly terminated, which unfortunately means killing the child after they are born. In the case of a hybrid pregnancy, the mortal parent is banned permanently from the realm. This policy was put into place centuries ago due to the belief that the Lumnos magic was being diluted with the introduction of mortal blood into the descended bloodlines. We will also find out that this was a compromise that King Ulther has with some of the other houses of Lumnos, because they suck a Lot and hate mortals. Moving on to Fortos, the southern neighbor. Again, we're going counterclockwise here. It is the realm of force and valor. The women's magic here is the ability to heal, and the men's magic is the ability to kill through rapid decay or both. Magic for non binary people. Their eye color is red and the geography is rocky flatlands. Fortress's sigil is a sword crossed with a human bone, and its ruler is the King of Fortos, or previously known as child. 1593, 30. He is the head of the Amarian army and he's a giant of a man who is misogynistic and a straight up. Fortress's gryvern was killed in the Blood War, so the Gryvern is no longer with us, and Fortress is populated by the hard nosed rule obsessed soldiers. And it contains the headquarters and training grounds of the army that serves the Nine Realms. The mortals here are permitted with heavy restrictions. The villages of Fortos are kind of surprisingly not as segregated as Lumnos, but they really do tend to keep to their own. South of Fortos is Faunos, the realm of Beast and Brute. Their magic is the ability to communicate and slash or conjure all forms of animal life. I love that their eye color is yellow and the geography here is humid jungles. Ooh, I love it so much. Their sigil is a hissing serpent coiled around the head of a howling wolf, and its ruler is Queen Alani. We haven't gotten a whole lot from Queen Alani yet, but my impression of her is she's all about looking out for her own own, but she is still somewhat friendly, but in an oh, you really scare me kind of way. For instance, when she won't give DM her vote, she's like, sorry, kitten kind of thing. Like that, yeah. The Gryvern is Rosha, who is a female and alive. And the mortals here are forbidden unless they are passing through on the ring road. Like Pen said, that is how DM has been here before, when she was on her way to Arboros. The descended here live by the same code as the animal kingdom. They control, hunt or become the Prince Prey. I want to go to Faunus. Like that sounds really crazy and weird and kind of like Jumanji, you know? All right. And as we continue going counterclockwise, if we were a clock, we'd now be on the number five in Arboro, so it's like southeast. It is the realm of root and thorn. Its magic is the ability to communicate with and slash or conjure plant life. Their eye color is green. And here is Lady Laid back farming villages that are tucked into the redwood forests. It has rich vegetation which supplies many medicinal plants used by healers across all nine realms. Arboros Sigil is a long stemmed flower entwined with a stalk of wheat. And its crown is Queen Murell, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Who believes that life is meant to propagate and spread. And she has a deep love for all things nature, which absolutely makes sense for the Queen of Arboros. She is secretly a half mortal and she is sympathetic. Sympathetic to the Guardians. Our Boros Gryvern is also alive and her name is Onar. The mortals here are permitted with pretty minor restrictions. It is one of the few realms still friendly to mortals. Alright, let's talk about Igneous, Realm of sand and Flame. Their magic is the ability to control sand and slash or fire. Their eye color is orange. And here it is sun scorched harsh deserts. Igneous Sigil is a sand dune curving around an open floor. Flame. And its ruler is the fucktard King Hamsid. He's just an angry dick with a temper. His gryvern is Tybalt, who we do like. It is a male and alive. And it's her eyes Boo who she's been separated for a millennia and we are shipping them really hard. Okay, everybody. The mortals here are banned. Even traveling on the ring road is certain death. Like literally, when a mortal steps across the border into igneous, they burst into flames and they die all. Also, how annoying would that be to be having to travel on the ring road and stop at Igneos and then go get in a boat and then go around it and then get back onto the ring road. Igneous, however, was once a land of warm hospitality. They welcomed any traveler unlucky enough to cross their lands because they knew that they didn't have a lot of resources. So they're like here we got to help everybody. However, now, especially after the Blood War, the realm is infamously known for its violent descendant who now roam the harsh igneous deserts continuing the counterclockwise further east. So now we're at like 3:30 on the clock. Is Umbros realm of Mind and Secret. Their magical ability is to read and or control minds. Their eye color is black. And here is black rock canyons under a perpetual night. Ambrose's Sigil is a human skull, its throat encircled by a chain. And of course its crown is Queen Yersel. She is old and immensely powerful. Also strikingly beautiful and she is feared by the other Crowns. She is only one of two Crowns who was around during the Blood War. And after the war she ordered the slaughter of all but 100 of her strongest Umbros descended in order to keep her magic undiluted and strong. This realm is carved into the canyons. And the deep markets of Umbros sell all manner of sins with only one rule. The queen always gets her due. Her gryvern is Sireny. Again. I believe I'm saying that correctly. I'm sorry. These are not in the pronunciation guides. I'm doing my best. And she is alive. And unfortunately we will be having a little fight in the sky in Heat together. The mortals here are permitted to live and work freely without restriction. Umbro's mortals tend to work in less than savory career paths including assassins, spies, courtesans and opium dealers. This is where Luther and Aurelie smuggle the half mortal children who then go to work in the and in and they learn how to use their powers. As we're talking about the more mortal friendly realms, Umbros is definitely it. Continuing on our journey up the ring road, we have Miros, Realm of sea and sky. The magic here is the ability to control wind and slush or water. And their eye color is blue. Green, My favorite color. Miros is home to Amaran's largest and busiest port. It is the primary port for all nine realms. The rowdy, fun loving citizens of Miros Love. They could sail on the open sea and a hearty ale to welcome them home. Their sigil is a crescent wave beneath a swirling gust. And his crown is King o' Banner in who is just charming and casual and I want to be friends with him. And his griver is Arlock, who is also alive. And the mortals here are permitted with some restrictions, but we don't quite know a whole lot more about that yet. Moving on to the next realm which is in that like one o' clock position on the clock is Sophos, Realm of Thought and Spark. Their magic is the ability to control electricity and slash or recall any information ever seen or heard. Their eye color is pink. And here the futuristic cities of Sophos really contain Amari's largest libraries and numbers of prestigious invitation only research institutions. It's very, very futuristic here.
- [138:24]
Nicole
I love it.
- [138:25]
Lexi
And their sigil is an open book illuminated by a glowing spark. Ah, kind of like our logo here, right? Sophos is led by Crown Dorial who is non binary and quote beautiful beyond words. They insist on being called by their name and not by their title claiming. The only thing titles do is encourage an inflated ego. You hear that Luther? Their gryvern is Vexus, who is a male and very plump and petite and just accustomed to a life of spoiled leisure. They don't have much of an army here in Sophos because why would they? The mortals here are permitted by invitation only. Only they can earn a spot at one of its universities. But it's very difficult because mortals do not have access to a good education that would typically get them an invitation to one of these universities. But if they do have that invitation, mortals and descended actually commingle quite a bit. And most residential buildings are communal between the two races here with a diverse mix of people. Sophos is known for their obsession with knowledge and their cutting edge innovations. But their innovations are not allowed to leave Sophos unless it's a coronation gift. And last but not least, we have Monteos, the realm of stone and ice. So this is Lumnos's northern border, because again, we've gone around the clock here. It is the largest of the nine realms with stunning snow capped lavender mountains. I love how it's lavender. That's also their eye color it purple. And their magic is the ability to control rock and slash or ice and snow. Monteos's sigil is a trio of snow capped mountain peaks and its crown is King Ren Mei. Please, I apologize for the mispronunciation here. He is an old frail looking man and he uses a walking stick. And just like the rest of his realm, he refuses to talk to anyone who is not from Monteos. He was the only other crown around during the Blood War, him and Umbrius. Little is known about the reclusive Druidic residents of the snowy Monteos mountains who are rarely seen and refused to speak to outlaw outsiders. But we will find out that they are the only realm that is run by a Crown council where the crown is only one member of the council. Monteos Gryvern was Raimari. She was a beautiful female and unfortunately she was killed centuries ago during the Blood War. She was the oldest of the Gryvern and she was pure white from tongue to tail with scales like opals. Mortals and Monteos have been banned because of the terrain and the weather is just too harsh for them. So they're not allowed here any anymore to keep them from dying due to the environment in this realm. However, just because mortals are banned does not mean you cannot go over the border. It's very much like Faunos in That way where a mortal can go over the border and not literally die on impact, like in igneous. And there you have it. That was quite the ordeal going through all nine realms. But it is important, people. It is very important.
- [141:03]
Nicole
Let us close out this episode with skipping around the apple orchard much like my shirt. While discussing our favorite moments for from this stretch of chapters, starting with Moira being an amazing boss, she sees that DM is so shaken by the news regarding Arlie that she suggests DM take several days off. You're so right. She's Helen from hr. Absolutely. We love a boss who loves a good mental health day. DM and Henry debasing the statue of Lemnos in the market with a mustache. I want you to imagine Luther Courbois being the one who's called in to die. Deal with this graffiti, and his face, in my mind, is priceless.
- [141:44]
Lexi
I never thought of that, but I love that so much.
- [141:48]
Nicole
Well, yes, there are definitely some Henry moments in this stretch. I do want to bring up a few more that make me go, okay, you're a deez dude. My personal favorite is when DM is not listening to him and he says, quote, and that's how I decided to go to Franos and ask them to turn me into a half peacock, half leopard. I really think it'll spice up our sex life, you know? Like, this guy is kind of funny.
- [142:11]
Lexi
I agree. I highlighted the same thing for the same reason.
- [142:15]
Nicole
And then also, when Brett comes into the picture, Henry tells him, quote, I assure you, there's not another woman like this in all of Amarian. That's sweet. I see why she's drawn to him until I read the contraceptive tonic section. And then I'm like, you fuck.
- [142:30]
Lexi
Not so much a favorite moment, but a relatable one. When DM thinks about how, if anything was worse than fighting with Henry, it was the awkward tension that came next. I feel like a lot of us have gone through a tough fight with a loved one, and then, Oof. That awkward tension afterward can be so tough. But then there's the beautiful writing that goes, quote, both of us quietly unspooling as the hours of tension eased away.
- [142:51]
Nicole
Ah.
- [142:51]
Lexi
This is also very, very relatable. And when I read that, I can just, like, feel my shoulders relax and, like, I'm like.
- [142:59]
Nicole
We did not forget it because we meet the lovely Sarai in this stretch of chapters with a head of a sea dragon, the wings of an eagle, and the body of a lion. She is looking beautiful. She's staring at DM with quite the curious look in her eye. Yes. Because she knows that DM will be the next crown, but also diem. DM knows this because of them already having a bond.
- [143:23]
Lexi
I just love Sarai so much. They are pulled toward each other already. And it's just she's my favorite animal companion.
- [143:30]
Nicole
She's so good.
- [143:31]
Lexi
Yes.
- [143:31]
Nicole
We did have a video where we chose between Andarna and Sarai, and we both chose Andarna.
- [143:37]
Lexi
I think of Andarna as much more of, like, a main character because we can talk to her and stuff like that. So I think only for that reason. But as an animal companion, I put Sarai.
- [143:47]
Nicole
I agree with that reasoning. Yes.
- [143:48]
Lexi
Okay.
- [143:49]
Nicole
Dm smack talk. It makes me giggle when the guards outside the palace are all being dick and a halfs. She tells him, quote, oh, just taking you would satisfy me enough. That must be the first time a woman's ever told you that.
- [144:01]
Lexi
Iconic. And then we have this line, quote. Entering through the main entrance of the palace was a veritable gauntlet. A gauntlet, you say? Someone get the giant hanging balls. Oh, hello, Luther.
- [144:14]
Nicole
I just adore the way the sparring scene with Andre is written. It's not flinging swords about. You can feel how calculated every single movement is and what kind of strategic thinking Andre has taught DM to have, all the way down to him chastising her for staring at his right foot and not giving away what she was going to attack. Like, oh, my God, it's brilliant. And of course, of course, now for my favorite Luther moments of the stretch of chapters. I do not know why I adore him, correcting everyone to use his formal, albeit shortened title of Prince Luther. But this causes DM to roll her eyes and wonder if Luther demands that his lovers address him formally in the bedroom. I'm quoting the whole thing.
- [144:59]
Lexi
Oh, my God.
- [145:00]
Nicole
Quote, harder. Your highness, will thou give me permission to come? Your Highness, let me kneel for you and show the prince's little prince a good time, you, Highness. Oh, but dm, you are so not subtle. Because as she's thinking this and just, like, giggling to herself the entire time, she's staring at his crotch.
- [145:17]
Lexi
Also, I just read chapter 72, and it's so funny how it will end up being. Because he'll be like, oh, your Majesty. And she's like, no, we're just Luther and D.M. here. Like, I want you to. To boss me around kind of thing. And it's like, yes, she does. Yes, dm, you will want to kneel for him. And show the prince's big prince a good time.
- [145:40]
Nicole
But DMs not the only one staring. While she's healing the little boy and telling very shellfishticated jokes, Luther is staring at her with an expression that is softer than usual and God, I melt for this man. But I am not done. As she is prepping her stuff to leave the palace, Luther stands oh so close to her and wait. When he's putting one of her daggers away, his thumb brushes her hip. I love this slow burn shit. Lastly later, when Luther is trying to talk about the dangers of Lily and Teller getting together, DM aggressively pokes him in the chest and his hand closes around hers and he stares her down in silent defiance just as his eyes drop to her lips. Sick of forking me. I am done. I love this so much. This is like I know there are some people who are like oh my God the slow burn. And I'm like I love a slow burn. Like give me every single moment. But we were talking last episode about how old Luther is and that was one of the questions that we asked for phone a pen. So let's hear Pen's answer as to how old Luther is.
- [146:46]
Pen
How old is Luther? Luther is as old as the oceans, as young as a sunset that he is as old as the stars in the sky and as young as a flower sprouting from the soil. He's yeah, I'm just screwing with you guys. Luther does not have a specific age for a very intentional reason. I will say that in in the descendants mind he's probably around 28 to 30. I would say say that's kind of the age at which they see him like an adult for sure but definitely on the younger side. Not, not at all, you know, middle aged or anything like that. Young but old enough to really know who he is and like have a firm grasp on his life. But if you want to know the true answer behind why I didn't tell anyone why I have not been specific about about his age, stop now if you don't want to know a little bit of the how the sausage is made behind the scenes work. It might ruin the magic of the book a little bit for you but I personally know that a lot of people have an ick when it comes to big age gaps. Like 500 year old Fae with like 18 year old girl and I kind of also have that ick. So I wanted to create a situation where you can kind of believe what you want want to believe. And if you really like that age gap and you love the idea that he's like hundreds of years older. You can certainly believe that. It certainly fits within the context of the story. If you prefer to believe that he's 28 and she's 2020 or 21, then you can believe that too, because there's nothing in the books that contradicts either of those theories. So he can be whatever age you want him to be.
- [148:40]
Lexi
All right, well, thank you so much, Pen. I think that is a great end to this episode. Thank you so much for listening to this Episode two of our Spark of the Everflame Deep Dive.
- [148:49]
Nicole
We will see you again next Monday for episode three where we are covering chapters 15 through 21.
- [148:55]
Lexi
We'd love to give the biggest warm welcome, welcome, welcome to our newest Crowns Council members. Take it away, Nicole.
- [149:00]
Nicole
Thank you so, so, so much for joining. Sarah S. Reid B. Lauren Rebecca G. Amy F. Andrew C. Ash R. Christina M. Jen C. Kimberly Joni Pascal, Emily D. And Emma T. Welcome, welcome, welcome. We are so grateful you all are here. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for supporting the show.
- [149:20]
Lexi
And if you're like, hey, I want my name shouted out on the podcast and to be shouted with all the love too, join our fan club@fantasyfangirls.com fanclub. The link is also in the show notes.
- [149:30]
Nicole
Thank you as always to our top, top Sophos scholar, AKA our content researcher Brooke, and our executive producer, AKA our sanity manager Hayden. We are so grateful for you both.
- [149:41]
Lexi
We are very active on social media with weekly trivia, Amarian guides and lots more. So please be sure to follow us on Instagram and slash our TikTok at fantasy fangirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube or want to because you're wondering what the heck that whole Henry hat was about, please hit that subscribe button to keep following along while while you're hitting.
- [150:00]
Nicole
Buttons, please hit that five star button and rate the podcast. You can also write a little love note in the review section if you're feeling extra generous. And friends, please, please, please don't just do this for the show. Do it for any podcast that you love listening to. And last but not least, share this episode with your fellow Ever Flame friends. If you were like, you know what, I understand why Henry joined the Guardians and I want to watch someone understand him too with the hat on, then this is a great episode to send to that group text.
- [150:30]
Lexi
All right everyone, thank you so much. We will see you next Monday. Bye Bye.
- [150:37]
Nicole
And we see this incompatibility and we see this incompatibility. Oh my God, is this my irrevocably. And we see that incompatible.
- [150:49]
Lexi
Yes. This makes me think so happy.
- [150:54]
Nicole
There's like, oh, it sounded like a bird was slapping itself against my window, but I don't know. The new McCrispy strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup, Tangy barbecue honey mustard, honey mustard, Sprite, McFlurry, Big Mac sauce, double dipped in buffalo and ranch, more ranch and creamy chili. McCrispy strip dip now at McDonald's.
- [151:19]
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- [151:48]
Lexi
Com.