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- [00:02]
Lexi
Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails.
- [00:05]
Nicole
Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger, wait.
- [00:10]
Lexi
Is that an enterprise sales solution?
- [00:13]
Nicole
Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit.
- [00:23]
Lexi
On your next campaign.
- [00:24]
Nicole
Get started today at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply.
- [00:30]
Paige
Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Real talk. If there's one store that I absolutely love walking around, it's Sephora. It's my total guilty pleasure. They have amazing brands that other people don't have, and I find something great every time I walk in, and there's literally one down the street from me, so I do that a lot. It's so fun to shop in the store and online, and the products are just too good. No regrets, ever. For example, one of my favorite beauty brands is makeup by Mario, who just launched his new lip gloss that I absolutely love. So the next time you're in the market for great beauty, shop all the hottest products and brands only at Sephora.
- [01:20]
Nicole
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls podcast, where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character themes, theories, and more.
- [01:30]
Lexi
I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy lore nerd.
- [01:32]
Nicole
And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart.
- [01:36]
Lexi
And today is our episode four, Deep Dive, of Spark of the Everflame by Pen Cole, where we are covering chapters 22 through 29. But before we begin this episode's deep dive, please listen closely to our spoiler warning because this includes spoilers for all three released books in the Kindred's Curse saga, which includes Spark, Glow, and Heat of the Everflame.
- [01:55]
Nicole
We get King Ulther's final words, at least to diem. So if you know, you know. And if you don't know, then please go finish the series. We will be here when you're done.
- [02:07]
Lexi
Next, we Fantasy Fangirls are adults who say adult things about adult books. In other words, friends, this podcast is.
- [02:12]
Nicole
Rated R. You all have never heard me cover a kiss scene like I'm about to cover this kiss scene, so please be mindful of those little listening ears.
- [02:25]
Lexi
Additionally, we are so excited to see you at upcoming live events. Nicole and I are hosting an epic Imperium Trivia night in Boulder, Colorado on July 10th. We will be featured guests at Enchanticon in St. Louis, Missouri, August 15th through 17th.
- [02:39]
Nicole
Then we will be at the Everflame Ball along with Pen Cole for the first ever Kindred's Curse Saga Ball on August 30th in Castle Rock, Colorado. We will be back then at the Dragon Gauntlet in Boyne City, Michigan September.
- [02:51]
Lexi
12Th through 13th and then Romantasy Bookcon in Orlando, Florida October 23rd through 25th where we are interviewing Rebecca Yarros again at Disney World.
- [03:00]
Nicole
This time check out our website or the links below for information to all of these events.
- [03:06]
Lexi
Last thing before we jump into the Spark of the Everflame Episode 4 if you love Fantasy Fangirls and want more events, more content, more community and just so much more all around, please check out Fantasy Fan Club.
- [03:17]
Nicole
We have three membership tiers that you can join. Number one, the Descended, which includes access to our Boppin Discord Live Q and A from Lexi and I. A book club literally. As we're recording this tonight, we are interviewing Rebecca Robinson who wrote the Serpent and the Wolf. We're so excited. You also get exclusive author interviews like Pen Cole or Callie Hart, community events like trivia, promo codes for live events, plus exclusive designs and 20% off all merch. That is for $6 a month. Or you can join the Royal Family which includes everything from the Descended, plus early access to ad free episodes, our full episode outlines and special voting privileges. That is for $10. Then we have the Crown's Council which includes everything from the previous two tiers plus more behind the scenes content. A welcome gift from Lexi and I. Giveaways we just gave away some copies of Serpent and the Wolf, Private Discord channel called Khalil and your name shouted out on the podcast. That is for $25 a month.
- [04:15]
Lexi
Join the party at fantasy fangirls.com fanclub. The link is also in the show notes. And really and truly, thank you so much for supporting us as we've turned this podcast into our livelihood. It's all all because of you.
- [04:26]
Nicole
And now it is time to run into the burning armory. Dun dun dun.
- [04:33]
Lexi
To start off every episode, Nicole does us the honor of summarizing this stretch of chapters. So gather round as we consult with our royal advisors to discuss what happens in chapters 22 through 29 of Spark of the Everflame. Take it away.
- [04:47]
Nicole
Chapter 22. Several weeks later, DM might be banned from the palace, but that doesn't mean she can't go into help in Lumnose City. Lost in her thoughts. Lots of judgment for the other's fashion choices, DM is approached by the one and only Lily Courbois. Using this chance encounter to her advantage, Lily has the opportunity to thank DM for saving her life. Oh, and to try to set DM up with her older brother, Luther. Matchmaker. Matchmaker. Chapter 23 it's dinner time at the Bellator house and DM decides it's the perfect time to tease Teller about his crush on Lily. And Teller, being the oh so helpful brother that he is, decides to poke back by announcing that Henry proposed to Diem and and she's left him hanging. Touche, Teller. Wanting some love advice, DM asks her father about how he knew her mother was the one for him. And after telling him and Arlie's love story, Andre attempts to give DM that fatherly advice. When you know, you know. DMs like helpful dad. Just as she starts to ask the very important question about her mother, boom. An explosion goes off. Seeing the casualties are towards Limno City, DM knows in her bones that this is her fault. She is correct. So she rushes to help just as more explosions rumble through the night. Chapter 24 sprinting to the healer's center, DM grabs everything she can and she's in and out faster than a McLaren pit stop. On her way to the explosion, DM is cut off by six mortal men, one of which is none other than the still waiting for an answer, Henry. Not wanting to waste a single moment, DM tries to skurrrrdd around the group, but Henry holds her down and not in the fun way. No, these guardians want her, the healer to ignore her training, ignore the explosion and ignore that she just saw a group of and go home. Not agreeing with this plan, DM plays along before running straight towards Lumnose City, leaving the very angry guardians and her medical bag in the dust. Chapter 25 Diem arrives in Luno City and sees the Banette Armory up in flames with empty pockets but open hands. Diem offers to help in any way she can, but the guards don't care that she knows the big man in charge. Doing her best impression of the inflatable tube ma' am from a car dealership, DM flags down the boss man himself. But Luther Courbois is source of DM doing everything she can to plead her case except going down on her knees. Not yet. DM Luther finally agrees that she can help. Like with no supplies, like she forgot to bring her number two pencil for the SATs, DM instead offers emotional support for the injured descended, but not all make it. In her guilt, DM offers to go into the still burning building and find the remaining survivors. Through the fire and flames, DM unfortunately finds body after body of guards that didn't survive the explosion or you know, being murdered. It seemed so collage. Collapsing to the floor, DM accepts her fate, closes her eyes and everything goes dark. Chapter 26 looks like it's WWE time because the voice in her head says fight. Pulling herself off the floor, DM decides she must be hallucinating again because the flames are no longer hurting her like they did before. Hmm, interesting. Navigating the fiery maze of death, DM finds a conscious survivor.
- [07:55]
Lexi
Perth my boy.
- [07:57]
Nicole
Using her totally not descended strength, DM dislodges the massive flash fucking log trapping Perth and lays him on top of another alive descendants unconscious body like a boogie board. And like a snail with a U haul on its back, she drags the men towards the crumbling entrance where a very panicked Luther is waiting. Using Luther's rope magic kinky, she wraps the strands of light around the unconscious man's wrist and Luther pulls them out. But just as the two men go to safety, the ceiling collapses and everything goes dark again. Chapter 27 we're living in an evanescent song Wake me up inside can't wake up. Save me from the darkness. Chapter 28 she lives. DM finally cracks her eyes open and finds herself in an unfamiliar but cozy bedroom. And it smells amazing. Of course it does. Luther sees that DM's back from the dead and jumps right into asking what the hell happened. But swinging her legs off the bed, DM notices that she feels perfectly fine. Not even a scratch. Ready to gtfo. DM makes moves to leave, but Luther has one last request. Dm, will you marry me? Just kidding. The King has been acting weird and you need to go look at him as the healer in the King's cham, there's a knock on the door and Luther rushes out into the hall, leaving Diem and her very sharp knives alone with the unconscious king. Chapter 29 with nothing else to do, DM whispers the rite of endings to the dying man. But then the King grips hold tight onto Diem's hands like impressively strong for an almost dead guy. The King croaks out a few obviously delusional and not at all prophetic words before a new voice takes over. It's much older and much more female.
- [09:30]
Lexi
Grandmama?
- [09:31]
Nicole
Is that you? After delivering a few more helicryptic words from Uther's body, the King takes shuddering breath. Perfect timing too, because the guards choose that exact moment to barge back into the room, only to find a confused and utterly terrified DM sitting on the ground holding a knife. Oops. But after being accused of Killing the king. DM rushes out of the palace with Luther hot on her heels. Grabbing her arm, Luther pulls DM to a stop, ready to hash this out. But DM has other plans. Holding her blade to his neck. Too bad for dm. Luther very much enjoys this position. He pulls her in and. Make out. Make out.
- [10:07]
Lexi
Make it E out.
- [10:07]
Nicole
I said. Let me die with the taste of you on my lips. Make out. And Nicole's soul leaves her body. But it doesn't last as long as I want. Because Luther is forcing DM to confront what he already knows. She is 100%, without a doubt, no way immortal.
- [10:22]
Lexi
No.
- [10:23]
Nicole
Really.
- [10:24]
Lexi
Okay, friends, it is time to reach for our forging magic and unravel key insights, character analysis, lore, foreshadowing theories, and, ooh, so much more. Who's ready for a montage? A few weeks Weeks go by after DM's disastrous day that we finished up with last week, and autumn is turning into winter. Moira is staying true to her word and not letting DM join the healers when they're called to the palace. However, sometimes Lana does accompany Moira there. And every time they come back from the palace, DM is terrified that they'll bring news of a rebel attack using that secret entrance she unfortunately revealed to Vance. In other words, DM is living in fear of the likely consequences from her mistake. She wants to warn Lana, so the trainee is on her toes for a rebel attack, or at least share her guilt of bringing the Guardians into their world. Lana is the only other healer who has an inkling of what DMs going through and knows the balance between being a healer who upholds their vows and being a member of the Guardians. DM is so alone in her feelings and she wants to be able to talk to someone else who can relate. Like that's such a human thing to want to do. But at the same time, DM is too afraid to admit the mistake that she shared with Vance to Lana, who, as we discussed last episode, did not reveal that secret entrance to the Guardians. And there is that fact that Lana and DM aren't close. There's extra tension between them these days, both knowing the other is in the Guardians and never addressing the elephant in the room. DM is ashamed of being a healer involved with the Guardians, but still actively participating. That is the key to the point. She can't bear to look another healer Guardian in the face. And from what we expect from Lana's end, she feels extra tension because she is crushing on Henry, who has now proposed to to diem.
- [12:05]
Nicole
Okay, so here's my headcanon. I think that Lana found out that Henry proposed to dm. And like, maybe Henry told her because he's so excited. And, you know, they're friends, right? Totally friends. And Lana is just heartbroken because she lost the guy she's been crushing on so hard. She lost him to this healer chick who she's probably really jealous of because, you know, DMs like this full healer status. She's like, well known for her mother and yada yada yada. So she's extra freezing out DM right now. Which does make it a little funny because DM thinks the reason Lana is super somber right now is because she's, you know, stuck between a rock and a hard place as DM is. But in reality, she's just glaring daggers because she's like, you stole my man. Who's actually not my man at all yet.
- [12:50]
Lexi
Yet. Over these past few weeks, DM has been volunteering for patient visits to keep herself working far, far away from the healer center. And while Moira banned her from the palace, DM has been allowed to care for descended patients in Luno City, all the while keeping her eyes and ears open for info, per Vance's request. It had allowed me to fall into an easy pattern of deluding myself into thinking I was useful without taking any kind of risks that might jeopardize the lives of everyone around me. Ah, yes, DM wants to be involved because she does still believe in the overarching mission of the Guardians. But she struggles to live with the consequences of active involvement, and she's trying to distance herself from any kind of responsibility that puts her family and innocent lives at risk. So this simply doing her job as a healer and listening for information that I honestly don't know if she would want to tell Vance. I say that before we go into glow though, so never mind. This routine makes her feel better about herself and her usefulness. Because remember, DM wants to be useful. She wants to make a difference. I just think she wants her usefulness to stay arbitrary so nothing bad comes of her usefulness, which these rebels are going up against their oppressors and Vance is in charge now. She is consciously choosing to live in her delulu diem world. Oh, by the way, that voice inside DM hasn't let up either. It's no longer sombering, it's waiting. Ah. It's like it knows that the king is going to pass soon and it's just waiting for DM to be crowned. It's a constant hum within Diem, and sometimes it's called to fight is nearly all consuming, specifically when she is close to the palace. How interesting. So much foreshadowing that she's going to be the next crown. I love it. You know what hasn't happened in the past few weeks? DM has not given Henry an answer to his marriage proposal. I don't know if you can't decide you want to marry a guy after being best friends for two decades. And two weeks after his proposal, you're still not sure. I hate to break it to you, girl, but he's not the one for you. And I know that DM knows that deep down. She just can't grapple with it yet.
- [14:49]
Nicole
While we are discussing Henry, DM notes how he has all but disappeared, which she's quietly grateful for. Again, not a good sign after a dude proposes to you. I couldn't let Brett out of my sight for a week after he proposed to me. Yes, this is the mission. To blow up the Armory.
- [15:07]
Lexi
So now that we're all caught up on these past few weeks, DM runs into Lily. And I just want to pull several highlights to take away from this conversation before we jump straight to the family dinner. First of all, this exchange reveals more of Lily's character, and it's just really fun to see on the page. She's a teenage girl who is really sweet and thoughtful, and it's kind of funny how she can also ramble. Her personality shines through the page here, and it definitely seems like she has a crush on Teller, too. We get lots more foreshadowing about DM's healing magic that she unknowingly used to save Lily's life. As the girls discuss how fast Lily healed and how that's very unusual for the descendants of Standard Quick Healing, DM learns that Luther has been complimenting her, and he has been very impressed with her, which is unusual for him because not many people impress him. Understandably, DM takes Luther's interest in her as a threat upon hearing he's asked for information on her and even gone to search for her in Mortal City. But Lily insists that Luther trusts Diem when he can't trust anyone as the heir to the crown. And it's probably because DMs mean to him. And I love how DMs like, I'm not mean to him, and it's like, oh, yes, you are.
- [16:14]
Nicole
Yeah, she is.
- [16:15]
Lexi
Basically, Lily is sweetly trying to play matchmaker for her older brother and Teller's sister Talking Luther up, explaining that he's actually quite nice.
- [16:24]
Nicole
This reminds me how in next book, Eleanor will mention how Luther keeps smiling at her in this very, like, un, Luther like way. And DM thinks, well, it's just so that he can get in her good graces. Well, this might turn into a whole new round of how DeLulu is DM.
- [16:39]
Lexi
Oh, my gosh. Yes.
- [16:40]
Nicole
Well, I'm not gonna lie, though. I'm gonna rate pretty low for her at least, honestly, for right now. Especially because everything she knows about Luther, his status, his role in the kingdom, and his role in her mother's disappearance, it's a pretty bright neon sign to don't trust this guy. And especially as she gets into courtly politics next book. You know, she might be a little bit more forgiving with some people, but with Luther's hot and coldness, with, like, how he is behind closed doors with her and how he is in front of other people, I understand why she's like, oh, he has his own agenda.
- [17:10]
Lexi
And of course, in this conversation, we feel DM's shame about breaking her healer's vows and this perception that she's a great role model, specifically for Teller. But it does go back to why she can't look Lana in the eye. Lana is the only other healer who knows from DM's own perspective, that she's a fraud. She no longer has the moral high ground to stand on, which she's always prided herself in standing on. And she's drowning in this loss of identity. Lastly, there's this ever present us versus them theme running deep in the background of DM and Lily's conversation. And, of course, this whole series, from the way her friends act when Lily stops to talk to Immortal, to Lily's curiosity about why DM is in Lubnose City, she was treating a patient. To Lily's innocent invitation for DM and Teller to join her and Luther for dinner at the palace, to which DM turns around and invites Lily to her family dinner, knowing how badly they would be treated by everyone as dinner guests at the palace and how much safer and more welcome it is to come to their house instead. And then we have Lily showing interest in being a healer, but we find out she's not allowed to work, which is an unfathomable idea for dm, where working is the only means of survival for the mortals. And here's this princess who lives in a palace and will never know hunger. And she's not allowed to work. I'm calling it now. I think Lily will become the first Descended healer who is not from Fortos by the end of the series.
- [18:25]
Nicole
Oh, I hope so. And as of right now, DM's ability to see through the descendants POV, it is so minimal, especially in this moment where she learns about Lily and this impossible ambition that she has because she is of such high status. While this might be met with a near snort from dm, now next book DM will realize how the descended because of their own classes and all of this kind of stuff, they're put into their own boxes and have their own caste system and some of them aren't unable to chase their dreams. Like here with Lily later that night we have one of my personal favorite scenes in this entire book, the Bellator family dinner. When Pen was on our book club last year, she said this was one of her favorite scenes to write, mainly because it's so normal family mode, but also because this is the last time all three of the Bellator are together and normal. The next time we see these three on the page, it will be when DM and her father are basically having a screaming match. And then after that, every subsequent time will be when DM is queen. But right now it is a casual family dinner, which means the siblings are, you know, being siblings.
- [19:29]
Lexi
I do love just how wholesome this conversation is, from DM teasing Teller about Lily and Andre's oblivious to the sibling teasing, to the heartfelt discussion accompanied with whiskey about Andre and their mother's love story and DM's own future with Henry.
- [19:43]
Nicole
Andre is such a dad in this scene, like he's playing along while simultaneously being completely out of the loop of the secret teasing language that DM and Teller have together about each other's love lives. Also, Teller's sweet little innocence in the scene around his crush around the Whiskey. It's adorable. I'm like, aw, you're a 17 year old, you're so cute.
- [20:06]
Lexi
Teller retaliates to DM's playful teasing about Lily with his own knowledge about his sister's love life. She should have seen that one coming. He very heavily implies that Henry has asked DM to marry him, to the point where even Andre picks up on it and then is the one to share that DM hasn't answered him since he proposed three whole weeks ago. Oh, this most certainly has Andre's attention. And DM is mortified because like I was saying earlier, I think deep down she knows she doesn't want to marry Henry, but it's expected of her. Not like her family is going to make her, but just like it's kind of just general knowledge that that's where they're going to be heading in their futures. It's also the right thing to do. It's the safe thing to do. And as mortals in this world, you kind of got to go with whatever is safest, right? Andre is number one dad as he recognizes DMs hesitancy and that there's more to this than her just needing some time to think over this big decision. Family bonding time over whiskey. This is so up my alley. Love how Teller gets a little splash in his and he's all annoyed. My 17 year self would be too Teller. Although the sentiment of including him in this is really sweet. And now as a parent, I'm totally team Andre here.
- [21:15]
Nicole
DM asks Andre a question that she's been haunted by in her own relationship. How did he know that Arlie was the one? DM hasn't been able to ask anyone for relationship advice. Her mother is gone. The one and only friend she has is the dude who popped the question. And things have been off with Moira. And the only one she's talked about this with with is Teller who just said pretty somberly, whatever makes you happy. Which is not advice at all.
- [21:40]
Lexi
That is not a vote of confidence from a sibling about your future spouse.
- [21:43]
Nicole
I will say that Andre and Orly's marriage has always been a happy one in their children's eyes. So if DM is to have one too, it is time to ask advice from the one person she can. But the answer requires quite a bit of a backstory.
- [21:56]
Lexi
So Andre knew of Orly long before they started courting. Aurelie was a well respected healer in the army, often being sent on important missions. That's very interesting. Many people, including some descended, were impressed by her bravery and intelligence. Though Andre had only met Aurelie a handful of times, he was smitten by her beauty from the start. She was able to command every room she walked into, even if she was surrounded by soldiers with dangerous weapons and even more dangerous egos. And this presence is what ultimately drew Andre in. But the commander was convinced that all he needed in life was his job and he had no time for a woman or especially a family. It wasn't until Aurelie left on her highly confidential year long mission that Andre admitted to himself that he had this incredible woman right in front of him and he let her walk away. We now know that this mission was when she went to Kuril and met Ophiuchai and got pregnant and had diem. During the year Orly was gone, Andre decided that if she ever came back, he confessed his feelings. And the second he saw her again. And guess what? He didn't. No. The second Andre looked at or when she got back, he booked it on out of there, saying he had taken on every manner of danger you could imagine. But the idea of asking to court Or Lee was true terror. Having avoided Orly for a full month. Wow. That's even more than DM is avoiding Henry right now, but for very different reasons. Andre finally grew the giant hanging balls to ask to court her. They weren't courting for a very long time. When Andre could tell Orly was hiding, getting something from him, but knowing she was a private person, he was willing to take whatever she was willing to give. One day, Orly showed up with DM in her arms. Ah, that's what she was hiding. A child. Yeah, she's got some really good babysitters dating. And he didn't know that she confessed that she had fallen pregnant and had given birth while away on her mission and that she was going to leave the army. Orly was ready to get up and leave without saying anything. But she changed her mind at the last minute, wanting to give Andre some closure. Knowing what he wanted, Andre knew there was no sacrifice he wouldn't make to keep them both in his life. His career, life in fortos and his goals all came second to Orly and DM being in his life because ultimately being with the one you love and living a life you want with them is more important than anything. And in Andre's case, he just knew that Orly was the one. There was no deciding like DM is going through right now with Henry. It's interesting that DM is so resistant to commitment when her parents are apparently the perfect lovey dovey couple. Yes, it shows that there are different kinds of love, but it also reflects that when you know, you know.
- [24:31]
Nicole
Okay, just to make my romantic heart happy. When did you know Jake was the one? Oh, my goodness.
- [24:36]
Lexi
So my dog Ollie is the biggest drooler in the entire world. And it had actually kind of been an issue with previous boyfriends because, like, it was a lot of drool. Everybody like a lot of drool. And early on in our relationship, Ollie shook his head and just like drool went everywhere and it even got some on Jake's trail cheek. And I was like, up there went that relationship right there. And Jake just wiped it off and he gave Ollie the biggest hug and like petting him and stuff. Like that. And he's like, oh, you can't help it, buddy, can you? And that was when I pretty much knew. Okay, what about you?
- [25:07]
Nicole
With Brett, we were at freshman orientation for college and we were chatting and it was like the rest of the world just like, did not matter. It was just like him and me, we were joking. We could both tell we were nervous because it was like, you know, first day of school vibes, and I just felt like, so calm and safe. And I remember I went back to Colorado and I told my two best friends at the time, I just met the man I'm going to marry.
- [25:30]
Lexi
And then you broke up.
- [25:31]
Nicole
And then it took us five years, but we got there eventually. I remember when I used to hear the words when you know, you know. And I would have a very similar reaction to what DM has here. Basically, I would roll my eyes and say, yeah, that's, you know, rich. But then it happened with Brett again. This is the second. This is five later. It's like, oh, I get it now. It was really meant to be. It brings me back to what the madam said last episode about not settling for a mediocre life and a mediocre man, but instead, go be exceptional. And if he's really the one, he'll come along for the ride. That's what Andre is doing here with DM and Arlie. And that is what Luther is going to do with everything with dm. Luther Bells going off.
- [26:15]
Lexi
Hello.
- [26:16]
Nicole
But right now, DM does not have that knowing feeling with Henry, but he seems like he should be the one. Everything on paper points to it. He's her best friend. They've known each other for years. They know each other better than anyone, or at least they believe they do. You know, they've always talked about spending their lives together. They were their first partner to have sex with and actually means something beyond just like, you know, getting it on. When it comes to love, though, this is all before Luther. DM is very logical and here with feeling like she just needs more time and she's hoping her brain will eventually convince itself to fall in love. But when DM and Luther share their first kiss later this episode. Yep, I had to bring it in. These words from her father will resurface. Quote, the truth is, I just knew.
- [26:58]
Lexi
And she's like, fuck, if you know us, you know that we have loved AG1 for a long, long time. And guess what? The AG1 you've heard us talking about for a while just went through a major upgrade. Huzzah. AG1's next gen is here. The same single scoop once a day but now clinically backed and formulated with more upgraded vitamins, minerals and probiotics. AG1's next gen now one of the most clinically backed greens powder. They went above and beyond the industry standard in testing and have made a great product even better.
- [27:24]
Nicole
The new Next gen formula offers a more advanced clinically backed formula that fills common nutrient gaps and supports gut health all in the same easy once a day ritual. AG1's next gen formula has even been clinically shown to help fill common nutrient gaps even in healthy eaters like us. I love AG1 every single day. It is always, always, always in my smoothie or shaken up with some almond milk or even some water. Lexi and I always bring it with us when we're traveling. It is a staple in our house households.
- [27:49]
Lexi
Oh absolutely. When it comes to our health, we need something we can trust and that's why we love AG1. With science fact, ingredients and real benefits, we can feel AG1 makes it easy to support overall wellness every single day. That's why we've been partnering with AG1 for so long and AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2 and five free travel packs in your first box. That's what Nicole was just talking about, so make sure to check out drinkag1.com FFG to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com FFG to start your new year on a healthier note.
- [28:22]
Nicole
This time of year is one of our absolute favorites. Do you know why? Because it's pool season. That means I'm going to be reading poolside as much as possible. But anytime I read by the pool, I have to make sure I have my handy dandy glasses. That is why we love using Pear.
- [28:37]
Lexi
No matter what you're reading. Pear has tons of budget friendly shapes and styles that don't compromise style or quality. Plus you can get 15% off by going to pear eyewear.com FFG you know my new glasses that you all have been so nicely complimenting me? I got them from Pear and they have magnetic sunglasses that go on too, which makes it extra convenient on the go And I feel so cool.
- [28:55]
Nicole
Pear has options for everyone from durable acetate frames with sleek metal temple details to perfectly proportioned wide frames. Plus, Pear accommodates prescriptions including progressives and readers, blue light filtering and so much more. That's what Lexi and I both have. And best of all you can get free shipping on US orders and free returns and exchanges within 30 days, no questions asked.
- [29:13]
Lexi
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- [29:25]
Nicole
FFG does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started@LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [30:00]
Lexi
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [30:03]
Nicole
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [30:09]
Lexi
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [30:17]
Nicole
And we're talking like legit credible experts, doctors, PhDs all around.
- [30:22]
Lexi
Superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios.
- [30:25]
Nicole
Check out Am I Doing It Wrong.
- [30:27]
Lexi
Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [30:29]
Paige
Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Real talk. If there's one store that I absolutely love walking around, it's Sephora. It's my total guilty pleasure. They have amazing brands that other people don't have and I find something great every time I walk in and there's literally one down the street from me, so I do that a lot. It's so fun to shop in the store and online and the products are just too good. No regrets ever. For example, one of my favorite beauty brands is makeup by Mario, who just launched his new lip gloss that I absolutely love. So the next time you're in the market for great beauty, shop all the hottest products and brands. Only at Sephora.
- [31:09]
Lexi
Andre seems so confident in Orly's eventual return, which brings DM to ask a point blank question. Do you know where she is? Like we mentioned in episode one, Orly told Andre she had a big trip coming up and she would let him know before she left for it. But she didn't actually alert him before her departure, leading him to be in a bit of a limbo. I think that he simply has to believe that she will come back, especially after her preemptive heads up. Because he loves her so dearly and to keep his own sanity, he firmly believes his wife will return. And that must have been the trip that she was on and she just didn't get a chance to tell him. However, this intensifying family dinner is cut short when a loud boom goes off in the distance. More booms follow and Andre recognizes it as explosion sounds. Oh, bombs are going off in Lumnose City and DM innately knows this is her fault. After she gave the Guardians so much valuable intel, she's been waiting for something like this to happen since she shared the information about the secret entrance to the palace like we were talking about earlier, with how these last three weeks have been. She's been holding her breath whenever Moira returns from the palace and DM is just hoping there wasn't a rebel attack. This is her worst nightmare coming true. Something bad and dangerous has happened and she knows it is her fault. It's all she can think about in the midst of barely being able to think with this terrifying gut wrenching realization, laden with guilt and ignoring her father's protests that this is in Luno City and how there's other healers to help. DM races off into the fort, forced to get supplies from the Healer center and then check on the damage she knows in her heart was inflicted because of her.
- [32:38]
Nicole
It doesn't even cross Diem's mind that her own safety would be at risk. Whether it's from the explosions or from the descendant themselves, all she can think of are the plausible casualties. She doesn't know if this was the Banette Armory, where the evening guards would have been on duty, or if it was the palace itself and the Guardians snuck in through the secret entrance, killing children in their beds.
- [32:57]
Lexi
So while she's frantically collecting all the supplies she thinks she may need, all of her thoughts are consumed with how these injuries from the the explosives, wherever this was, whether the armory or the palace, they'll need gauze and more items to lessen pain, clot, bleeding and help the burned victims. Her insistence to run, to help, to be the healer that the inevitably injured will need, is fueled by her guilt. If she had kept her healer vows and not divulged information, be it the armory blueprint or the hidden entrance location from these patient visits, this would not be happening. So the healer in her has to be reactionary now. The exact, exact thing she had been so upset about After Ron killed mother and child, DM is trying desperately to fix a problem that she created. It's all she can focus on as she hurriedly prepares to head into Lumno City and help. But it wouldn't be fair to say this is all entirely fueled by her guilt. If DM was not associated with this explosion in any way, I still think she would have gone to help. Even if it is in Lumnose City, it's the kind of person she is. She has a big heart and wants.
- [33:54]
Nicole
To help everyone with her bag. Overloaded with silver worm and willow bark for painting, marigold and lavender for burns, clove to numb, yarrow for speed clotting and comfrey for breaks and tears, which pause because you know what's gonna happen. We're in a plant medicine watch. Some of these are used in real life. I could not find any instances of silver worm, but willow bark is sometimes referred to as nature's aspirin and reduces pain and inflammation, which is exactly what diem is using it for. Here. Marigold can be used for for skin injuries and inflammation. I even saw it can be used on sunburns, which it is used for burns. Here lavender is used for calming clove contains a chemical called eugenol. Eugenol Eugene oil Eugenol that decreases pain. Yarrow can help with stomach cramps and comfrey can treat minor sprains and joint pain, which is again what it is used for here. So most pretty spot on, which is awesome. TM takes off running for the road to Lumnose City where she sees that the plumes of smoke are rising from the west of the palace and her knees wobble in relief. But then as she sprints down the path, six figures approach her with two large carts trying to run past them. Her mind too focused on her goal to save the wounded, she almost doesn't hear a very familiar voice call out her name. Ah, it is Henry. And the six men are some of the guardians of the Everflame who just finished a very successful mission of setting Bond up in the armory, going in, murdering some guards on duty. And as for those two large carts, DM later when she's making her way through the burning building, will notice a room called blades and that appears to have been emptied right here on these two carts. That is where all the blades went.
- [35:39]
Lexi
Ah, for Tosian blades, I bet, because it's a descended army after all, and those blades are very expensive and are the only thing that can cut the descendant.
- [35:47]
Nicole
With this being vanished, Vance's crew with Vance's ideals. It is no surprise that these men view this mission as a major victory. They just set Banette back months on shipments of weapons that he provides to the guards. And those guards regularly kill mortals. They also just got who knows how many weapons. And now they have way more resources for their rebellion.
- [36:08]
Lexi
In chapter 30, Henry will say that they were able to get enough weapons to arm half of the rebel cells in Amor.
- [36:15]
Nicole
That's crazy.
- [36:15]
Lexi
In all nine realms in the rebel cells that they can supply half of them from this. These two things in and of themselves against the oppressors are major victories. Like just plain and simple.
- [36:26]
Nicole
It is.
- [36:27]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [36:28]
Nicole
And they just killed who knows how many descended. The bloodlust they've been craving to act on was finally fulfilled.
- [36:36]
Lexi
And that's the bad part of this. That's where we do not call this a major victory. No pin very intentionally brings up the push and pull of these two groups that are pitted against each other. What the Guardians want to achieve is morally the right answer. They want better treatment and overall freedom for the mortals. They want to take back what was theirs already. They are the resistance against the evil oppressors. And we as a society celebrate that and gravitate toward that group of people fighting for what's right. Think of Star Wars. That's the most obvious example. Harry Potter is another one too. We all know those that that's like Hunger Games. I could go on and on and on. And yet Vance's aggressive stance to make that happen and what he's willing to do to win is where we and DM Bach violence to fight violence isn't right. Believing everyone in the oppressive group is evil and needs to be exterminated is definitely not right. So that leaves us with the question that haunts DM in this series. Where's the balance? What is the solution that grants the opposite oppressed their rights and freedom? Without violence as Orly will insist in heat she never would have allowed this kind of explosion from the Guardians. She's more of the stealthy strategic kind of rebel against the oppressors. For instance on Korea she's planting bombs. It's not to kill the crowns, although that will be a consequence for poor Montios. But it is so that they can have a distraction and then the rebels can take over and therefore have leverage that is in a non violent way against the descended. According to Vance and his minions. He doesn't think that or Lee has been leading the Guardians to progress because she's not willing to do what needs to be done. The violence that needs to be done to make that big change.
- [38:12]
Nicole
And the men celebrate this victory with quiet snickers clapping each other on the back. And even Henry smiles as the final bomb goes off.
- [38:20]
Lexi
When DMC's Henry smile after another explosion, after more people have just been severely hurt or killed, killed, she goes on high alert. It was no accident that these men, including Henry, were here on the road leaving Lumnose as explosions go off. And when she puts two and two together, Vance addresses her by Sister dm. Now I think he does always call her Sister dm. But right here it is his reminder to her that she is one of them. She is a Guardian. And then he confirms DM's biggest fear. This victory was able to happen because of her. It's her victory too. He's like, come on, let's celebrate all together. But he also kind of knows her her hesitancy here, right? This doesn't change DM's mind. In fact, if anything, it solidifies it that she has to go and help and fix this. And yet, despite her protests that she needs to leave, Henry doesn't let go of her. In fact, after Vance says they can't let her go, Henry tightens his grip on DM's shoulder and with a pleading expression, I will give him that refuses to take his hands off her when she demands it. All these other men are closing in around them in a circle, trapping DM from leaving. They can't let their mission be compromised by other each diem. It's a victory and they need to keep it that way. They need to ensure there are no mortals near the scene of the crime so it doesn't raise any suspicion about who's at fault for this incident. A little LOL at that. The Guardians are not as sneaky sneaky as they think. And Luther absolutely knows that it was them.
- [39:42]
Nicole
I am going to do my best here. Does Henry not want DM running in to save the descended because they just risked so much to have this successful vision? Yes, absolutely. Is he looking at that from a place of wanting to protect dm, his best friend, the woman he loves because he knows the descendant will already be on edge and furious at anyone who they can even slightly point fingers at? Yes, he does not want his girl in danger. And yet this is definitely overpowered right now by his wish for her to not go in and work against the Guardians and this mission. If it was care for her, I think he would would have at least tried to get through to her more versus clamping down on her shoulders and like, you know, holding her back, which is what Vance was wanting him to do.
- [40:33]
Lexi
I can appreciate now is not a good time to be able to stop and talk for one. DM is not letting him do that. When he does try again, I will give Henry that little sliver right now. I'm putting on my unofficial Henry hat right now. While saving the big Henry hat for next episode. Y' all are gonna love my Henry hat. Just little teaser there for that, I think. For me, what solidifies Henry is behaving this way for the guardian's sake first and DMs safety second is when he says, please don't make me do this. Yeah. You know who would never, ever, ever in a million years act this way against her? Luther.
- [41:05]
Nicole
You know who would have the guts to put her safety first and care about his woman, who he says is his number one love, his best friend, and he wants to be with her for the rest of his life. Luther. So. So we're giving Henry that. But we can tell by the way he's holding her back. He's hauling her to him against her will. He's looking at Vance for permission to answer her questions, which of course, Vance denies and therefore Henry denies. And as DM is trying to free herself. Oh, this is unforgivable. All of the men circle around her, and Henry's grip tightens on her shoulder and he refuses to release her, despite her protest. L. Henry. El. He might believe that he's keeping her in safety, but any man who actually cares about a woman would never put her in a situation where she is trapped and surrounded by those who are supposedly more powerful than her. Yes, she is descended. They are not. She could probably overpower them, but she does not know that right now. And more specifically, none of them know it as well. They know they're overpowering her and Henry is clamping her in place. My heart would be vomited out of my gullet is how would that would work. Now, putting that aside, I will give Henry one more thing in his defense. From chapter 18. After DM goes to get the blueprints from the Bennett Armory, Henry says, quote, this isn't just information. This could be enough to blow it up entirely. And a grin appears on DM's face as a result. So, technically, he's already hinted heavily, this is what's going to happen. Based off of this material and based off her reaction in the moment that was driven by him looking at her with pride for, you know, the first time, he believes that she also wants this outcome.
- [42:58]
Lexi
And dm, who is such an achiever who like needs to be successful in what she does for her identity, when she just heard, oh my gosh, this is perfect information, like, this is really good. She was thinking very much selfishly, oh, this is I did good versus the consequences of literally blowing something up. Yes.
- [43:18]
Nicole
But now she's seeing the consequences. And she clearly is not on the same side as Henry, which is why he still gets a big old. It's not smiting, Ellen. Even though I wanted to.
- [43:33]
Lexi
You're not giving him a smiting L here, but you did when he gave her respect.
- [43:38]
Nicole
Yes.
- [43:42]
Lexi
I don't know if I agree with your Henry dish outs, but.
- [43:48]
Nicole
Okay, I don't. I'm not giving him a smiting L here because I'm trying my best to put myself in his shoes. Shoes. Every single thing the Guardians have done was, you know, in the past few weeks at least this little group was to ensure that this mission went well. And if a mortal came running up and into the fray, it would jeopardize it. So I do understand. I am absolutely giving an L him an L. With how he is handling this situation. It is from putting the Guardians first. The reason I gave him a smiting L prior is because he should have given given her respect long before she did anything for his cause.
- [44:28]
Lexi
Okay, I'm not gonna open up that can of worms.
- [44:30]
Nicole
Don't touch me. I will pull out my notes.
- [44:33]
Lexi
I just. The fact that there is so much back and forth analysis of Henry is exactly why I love this series and why we were really excited to deep dive it. Henry is not objectively a bad person. He is fighting for a cause to save his people. And in order to have a chance at winning, you have to fight dirty.
- [44:50]
Nicole
Well, literally. Think about what we were just saying about how much of a victory this is for the Guardians. Like this is. This is a massive win. If we are just looking in Henry's shoes. Absolutely.
- [45:00]
Lexi
Yes. And he's trying to protect Diem, but it ultimately comes down to him protecting the Guardians. He's in a tough position, I will give him that. Because suddenly protecting the Guardians and keeping his girl safe are at odds and he has to choose. I don't think he's consciously choosing the Guardians, but because he really does want to protect dm, he thinks that he's doing both in this moment, but to protect her from harm in this moment is outwardly standing up against the Guardians, his newfound brothers. And that's not something he's willing to do. That's not something that he can even fathom doing, remembering her father's advice that if she's fighting an opponent stronger than her, like these six men bigger than she is, DM has to fight smarter. Yes, Andre prepared her for a situation like this. This because no way in hell will DM be obedient and listen to these men who have just likely injured a bunch of people and are celebrating calling it a victory. She is still just as determined as ever to get there and save these injured people. This is her fault after all, and she cannot turn her back on this. So DM pretends to agree with these men, insisting she would never want to do anything to risk the mission. And it was a momentary lapse of judgment which leads Henry to release his tight grip, though he does still nudge her heart to keep moving away from luminous city. Unsurprisingly, Henry is the only one who trusts DM's words here, though that hard nudge was not unnoticed. Henry Nicole, I see you definitely noticing that too there. And while they're all tentatively following along with her words, DM absolutely notices how these men flank the road behind her, blocking the way to Limno City. That was not an accident, friends. Brandt, Vance's right hand, offers to carry DM's bag of medical supplies, acting as if it's a nice gesture because it's gotta be heavy, but really it's to prevent her from having supplies and and thus going to the explosion taking her chance, DM bolts and barrels through the men blocking the way behind her. Ah yes, there's her descended strength working for her again. In order to not get caught by the man, she cuts the bag from her shoulder and keeps running, running, running away from the Guardians. Oh, they are going to be so pissed and DM knows it. But in this moment, she can't choose the Guardians over her morals. She needs to fix what was her fault in the first place, no matter the the cost. Arriving in Limnos We've got good news and bad news. Good news, the fire is not coming from the palace. That would have been the worst case scenario with the most casualties and many of them children. But the bad news? It was the Banette Armory. Oh, and more bad news. DM does not have her bag or any supplies after she had to ditch it, only her two hands plus some weapons, which is unfortunately not going to be the most medically helpful, though our girl will end up working with what she got. And even more bad news, no other healers are here and even if they did come, they would have been told to turn around. It's just DM and her two hands getting refused entry into the perimeter where guards hold the line with a thick rope of glowing pale blue light. The armory is almost destroyed from the explosions and what's left has the flames spreading quickly. A group of descended are going into the building to try to save more people trapped in there there. But they keep coming out empty handed. DM won't back down though. She can't. She's too scared to go back on the road she came from where the Guardians were. I know there's so much going on right now, but that was a really scary incident for her as it would be for anyone. And she recognizes how angry she has made them. And she certainly doesn't trust their rationale when they confront her. She's more scared to be there than she is to be here. With a descended with a burning building.
- [48:24]
Nicole
Continuing to get denied entry, DM locks eyes with a certain princes. And there's something extra harsh in his expression that DM recognizes is suspicion. Now let's be real. Him being suspicious of her is so very fair. I get it. Number one, he knows she's working with the Guardians. He saw her go in and out of meetings. Number two, she's the daughter of Aurelie who Luther already knows was working directly with the Guardians and he was working with reluctantly. And number three, think of the last time he saw her. She was running away from him to to obviously try and find something within the palace. And then when he came looking for her, she didn't come out even though she was definitely noticeable behind the pillar. And it ended up with him basically kicking her out of the palace. Her clearly having broken his trust in her. If he wasn't suspicious of her that she was behind these attacks in some way, I would be shocked. And she technically is behind the attacks, but maybe not in the way that he thinks so. But that suspicion is outweighed by him seeing just how badly it is that she wants to help. I think that when he sees that she's willing to call him an arrogant prick, she's frantic in order to get to the scene. His suspicions of her, you know, being directly behind the attack, they definitely dissipate.
- [49:37]
Lexi
Like Lily said, he trusts her because she's mean to him. But then the way she begs him to help, even alluding to her involvement by saying she made a mistake. Luther can sense her sincerity though and lets her through the magic light line.
- [49:49]
Nicole
Now there are moments, moments throughout Glow specifically as they get closer together that DM can kind of sense his emotions through his aura. I wonder if this is a moment where he can sense her emotions through her own aura as well. I will get into what else I think that might mean later. I think his suspicion of her goes completely away when he hears that she was attacked on the road because he automatically, I believe, at least, thinks that the per. The people who attacked her were the men who did this.
- [50:16]
Lexi
Well, and he's not wrong. He does ask were they mortal or descended? And he knows that it was the guardians. And so it's like, were they mortal or descended? And she's like, I don't know. And of course she does.
- [50:28]
Nicole
Oh, I. Yeah, but, you know, I.
- [50:32]
Lexi
Understand why she didn't.
- [50:33]
Nicole
Because exactly why Henry didn't want her to go. If she had said mortal, it just blurted it out, that would have been. I mean, it's already a neon sign, but it would have been and even more of a neon sign.
- [50:43]
Lexi
Finally in a position to help the wounded. DM works with what she has. And oh dear, these injuries are bad. They were in an explosion and are terribly burned. Some limbs are gone, even some lips. I won't go into detail. You get the idea. And you also get the idea of how the words this is my fault Keep echoing in DM's thoughts. She is drowning in her guilt now that she physically sees the damage she is indirectly done to these people who are just doing their jobs on guard at the armory. This is the very last thing she, a healer, healer who holds helping instead of harming in the highest regard would ever want. Like when she was unable to stop Ron from killing the mother and child and it was a wake up call against the descended. Now she is getting this violence from the other end of the spectrum and she is disgusted with her own choices that led to this. Especially when she'll look upon the burned woman who died from the explosion. So all Dame can do now is sit with the victims, going from descended to descended to offer them comfort and assurances and ease their terror. Thanks to Luther, she's also able to clean some wounds with fresh water and alcohol. It's not much at all, but it's something. Anything that can help.
- [51:46]
Nicole
It's so sadly ironic because she has the fortoast magic, the healing magic to fix this situation. Which I do wonder if that's one reason that. One of many reasons that Luther keeps looking over at her is to like, kind of. Kind of make sure he's not crazy. Because he saw what she did with Lily.
- [52:05]
Lexi
Yeah, I hadn't thought of that before. I guess I assumed it was him seeing her good heart and that he's falling in love with on display. Oh, absolutely. She intrigues him, you know.
- [52:15]
Nicole
That's 100%. Also some part of it. Of course. He's complicated. Boyf.
- [52:21]
Lexi
Yeah. I hadn't thought of it in that light. For the scene. DM will think at some point in Heat. I can't remember exactly when. How. She's had this healing magic all along. And she could have saved so many lives. Lives. It's so tough. Because of course it's not her fault that she hasn't used her healing magic previously. Like right now. She has no way of knowing. I won't even blame Orly for this either because that's Forto's magic. And no one could ever have predicted she could have all nine Realms magic. It's a tragic fact with no one to blame.
- [52:48]
Nicole
From chapter one of this book, we have seen DM's moral compass always pointing towards heal, not harm. And through her anger, she believed that she could have what it it takes to shake up that belief and harm those she believes are deserving. But these descended do not qualify as deserving. They were just doing their jobs and they were injured. Or in the woman's instance, killed entirely. If this mass destruction that was a direct result of her stealing information, if this is her fault, like she believes it to be, then she must be the one to go in and save the remainder of the victims or die trying. Because in her eyes, this is just a sliver of a way that she could write that moral compass again. With the death of this innocent being her last straw, DM knows she will need to do more to clear her conscience. So she goes up to Luther and his guards and tells them that she will be the one to go in and get the last people who are trapped within the burning building. She is feeling guilty beyond measure. Yes, she is one of the only ones who can fit inside the opening with her smaller frame in comparison to the tall descendant. Yes, but this is also very much in Diem's character. She is always someone to run into. The flower fight she did this last episode with the man we come to learn as Ron when he threatened the screaming mother and child. She will do this a million times over, much to Luther's dismay.
- [54:02]
Lexi
DM's determination to save innocent lives and really to save any life is one of her biggest strengths and profound qualities as an fmc. She is courageous in the face of peril and will always be the first to charge into danger. Whether she's mortal or descended, it's in her nature, it's who she is on Always Been and how she was raised by Orly and Andre Bellator and it's one of the reasons we love her character and have been so excited for this deep dive. She's flawed and makes mistakes but at the end of the day DM has a good heart and intentions and her morals mean everything to her. Her struggle is that her morals point in opposite directions in the current Amarian climate and so starts her agonizing and self deprecating cycle of doing the right thing for one side only for it to hurt the other other. And then she tries to do the right thing for that side which of course then hurts the other. DM fights against the oppressors by getting intel on the descended weapons which leads to an explosion. The explosion causes her to run to help and heal which makes the Guardians not trust her anymore. And then we'll see the consequences of that mistrust and how she tries to fix it and glow and we'll talk.
- [55:05]
Nicole
About this never ending cycle and the I think hero complex that comes along with it, especially as we get more into to heat. But for right now she believes herself quite invincible and will continue to do so. And honestly I can see why she's been a descendant in a mortal life for so long. She's always been stronger, better and unable to cut herself for the most part. Any injuries she had would heal right away, she wouldn't get hurt as easily.
- [55:31]
Lexi
She's not aware of this, but she subconsciously has that invincibility.
- [55:36]
Nicole
Yes, because like okay, so let's say for instance, instance, her and Teller are climbing a tree. Both her and Teller fall out of said tree. She is always going to be the one who is much more okay. And over time that would concoct into a belief system of yeah, I'm pretty badass, I can do whatever I want. So it makes sense that she believes the same rules would apply here.
- [55:55]
Lexi
Even subconsciously, DM uses her mortal angle to her advantage in convincing Luther to let her go into the building. Why should he care if a mortal dies and in this dangerous mission they're disposable to the descendant after all. While that's true for some descended, we know for a fact that's not the.
- [56:11]
Nicole
Case with Luther, especially with this air quotes Mortal Surrounding Diem and Luther are two other descended though a slim stern faced woman with a midnight blue chin length bob and a bison of a man with messy golden waves with a Frown that doesn't seem to quite match his face. Hello Alixe and Taran. Hearing this mortal declare that she is going to go run into a burning building for a bunch of descended naturally stuns them. Luther immediately obviously shuts this down. What I would give to hear his internal monologue and just the sound of the protect her protector, protect her voice in the back of his head. But as DM fights back using her. You're willing to send in your guards over the last hour. Why would you not send in someone who is totally willing? Taryn shoots a look at Luther and then looks back at DM and a slow smile creeps up his face. We know from Luther's POV chapter in Spark of the Everflame that Taran has been told about dm. He just doesn't really realize in this moment that this is the same woman who Luther told him saved Lily. We also know that around a month ago, Ish Luther has broken things off with Ileana. So I wonder if Taryn is smiling because he's like, oh shit. It looks like things were broken off for more than one reason. Meanwhile, Alix doesn't give a flying fuck about this romance drama. She is always so focused on the mission at hand and not allowing everyone else's love lives to cloud her judgment. So she admits that Senny and DM would actually work. If DM is able to bring the survivors to the opening, the strong descendant could push up the beams for long enough to get the victims out. I love Alix's completely unprejudiced manner. She treats DM like a normal person. She doesn't see mortal and descended. We see this with how she looks at Andre as such a role model. Oh God, I love her. But even with Alix's practical planning, Luther is still not having it. His single focus is protect her, protect her, protect her. He's ridiculously attracted to her. Yeah, he is. And he also believes that she was sent by Mother Lumnos. So he is literally protecting her so that she can fulfill whatever Mother Lumnos has in store. But when Diem twists the knife of quote, you're really going to tell their families you had the chance to save them and you didn't take it. That's the kind of leader you're going to be. Well, I guess that's gonna do it. There are going to be so many times, and specifically in that first section of Heat, where Diem and Luther's priorities are very different. In battles, his priorities are always focused on her safety and survival. While hers are focused on saving as many people as possible because that's the type of leader she will be. And it takes Luther a while to be okay with this choice that she has around it. Well.
- [58:58]
Lexi
And it's not just protect everybody, it's protect everybody on the other side too. And he's like, I'm trying to protect you from these people. She's like, don't kill them.
- [59:07]
Nicole
I know. But today he's definitely not with her on this. So he relents and he says, quote, fine, get yourself killed.
- [59:17]
Lexi
I think too deep down he is having to convince himself that okay, this is a test from Mother Lumnos. Will this woman survive and lead us into a new age or will she.
- [59:27]
Nicole
Die and I'm looking out for another gray eyed person.
- [59:30]
Lexi
Exactly.
- [59:31]
Nicole
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- [59:50]
Lexi
You all we love our Skylight Calendar in our household. Between my work schedule, the kids appointments and childcare juggles, we needed an all in one calendar for a really long time. Now with Skylight Calendar we have all of our different calendars in one place. We were even able to sync our parents calendar to ours too to make it so much easier as we talk about who has the kids today and all that kind of stuff. This calendar is always up to date and it's even color coded. I love it. Plus my young kids love the routine feature where there's emoji visuals for them to reference as we go about our days and they can instill good habits.
- [60:15]
Nicole
Skylight Calendar was designed to connect the digital and non digital worlds while bringing families together. This all in one smart calendar syncs seamlessly with your Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook and even gives you customizable views use for daily, weekly or monthly planning. You will be able to manage events, chores, grocery lists while assigning colors to each of your family members and eliminating excuses of not knowing what they needed to do.
- [60:34]
Lexi
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- [61:10]
Nicole
Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise filled with 2 teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy additives growing kids should never eat. That's why Haya created a super powered chewable vitamin. While many children's vitamins have 5 grams of sugar, which is known to contribute to of a variety a variety of health issues, Haya is made with zero sugar and zero gummy additives, yet it tastes great even for those picky eaters.
- [61:30]
Lexi
My kids absolutely love every single morning when they each get to pick their color of their high vitamin and then they get to eat it and they now know that they can only have one because I always, always ask for more. It's like nope, we just get one a day because that's all you need. And then also my kids love smoothies. So adding the greens powder into that, it just makes me feel like I am winning as a parent because I don't know how my children survive off of chicken nuggets and cheese. But now it's like up. Here's your nutrients.
- [61:51]
Nicole
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- [62:11]
Lexi
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- [62:26]
Nicole
Our patio is all thanks to Wayfair. We have a table, we have a little couch out there. You all have been commenting a lot of my bookshelves actually behind me. Yes, they are also from Wayfair. I was in a meeting yesterday with Hayden and Lexi. I was in a chair that was built from Wayfair. I basically redesigned my office and my patio. Thanks to Wayfair, there's something for every.
- [62:42]
Lexi
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- [63:01]
Nicole
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- [63:18]
Lexi
Race the sails. Race the sails.
- [63:20]
Nicole
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- [63:45]
Paige
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- [64:23]
Nicole
Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [64:25]
Lexi
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [64:27]
Nicole
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get lives our. Each week on the podcast, Raj and.
- [64:36]
Lexi
I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [64:42]
Nicole
And we're talking like legit credible experts.
- [64:45]
Lexi
Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts, inside the burning building diem goes. And it's getting hot in here, so keep your clothes on because they're gonna burn that didn't work out like I wanted it to anyway. It's hotter than the surface of the sun in here, with air so thick she feels like she's waiting. Through liquid warmth, DM is calling out hello. In hopes that survivors will answer her. But there's only silence. On her hands and knees, she goes down the path the woman Alix described to get to the area of the armory where there are people still trapped. And in a giant storeroom marked blades, the shelves and crates are strangely empty. Like Nicole was saying earlier. Ah, yes, the Guardians cleaned out. And that's what was in those carts they had on the road. While DM does find several parts bodies here, unfortunately they are dead, with two of the three straight up murdered with a slit throw and another beheaded. I'm curious how the whole mission went down. Did the Guardians plant the bombs, then invade this room of the armory and were quiet enough not to raise the alarm, then left and that's when they detonated the bombs. Or maybe they had like a bomb or two go off at first in another part of the armory, which distracted everyone else. And they are able to sleep in here and kill the guards in this room to retrieve all their weapons. Weapons.
- [66:04]
Nicole
All right, I have to ask. Do you think that Henry knew about and slash or committed at least one of these murders? Because I think he did. Not because I have it out for Henry right now, but because I. I genuine believe he was so hyped up with the rest of his dude bros that it was seen as this is for the greater good.
- [66:27]
Lexi
Yeah, I. There were six men who all feel that way very strongly, so maybe Henry was just. It doesn't matter. It doesn' matter.
- [66:36]
Nicole
It matters in my mind how much blood is on your hands, boy.
- [66:42]
Lexi
Whatever the case, DM is horrified by these murders. Total in four. With the woman outside the building and these three in here, the act of killing seemed so easy. Back when she was defending the mother and child from Ron, she was fueled with rage and a need for justice. But here, no matter what kind of descendant these individuals were, they are now dead because they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time time. DM joined the Guardians because she was ready to fight against the descended. But the caveat that she's now realizing is that she wanted to fight against those who outright deserved this fate. Vance, Henry and many others believe that because these armory guards were descended, that's reason enough for them to deserve this fate. But DM doesn't think that way. She seeks to protect the innocent, and she's Understanding kind of in real time that apparently that includes the descendant too.
- [67:31]
Nicole
Well, and I think we saw her try to have this type of black and white thinking where it's like you're descended equals you're bad. When her and Moira are going into the palace to treat the king, we see DM have this very flippant attitude about, you know, talking down about Luther and all of this different kind of stuff. And it just showed that she was really, really trying because she truly believed she could have that type of mindset around it. But when the armory exploded, that mindset just went straight out the window and she went right back to her true mortgage morals.
- [67:59]
Lexi
Yeah, well, or even when she shared the secret location.
- [68:03]
Nicole
And yeah, that's another point that shame.
- [68:05]
Lexi
Yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, like what have I done? Like there's no take backs here. She's not ready to wage war that requires this kind of killing. This is going on the offense when DMs more of a defense person, which is ironic. Don't know if that's the right word, but let's call it ironic with how she doesn't feel like being a healer is enough because it's reactionary. This reveals how caught in the middle DM is of these opposing ideologies. She wants to be on the offense to protect her people, but never at the expense of this. She knows she'll never be ready for war. That as Andre describes, is quote, death and misery and sacrifice. War is making choices that will haunt you for the rest of your days.
- [68:45]
Nicole
So with the consequences of her actions engulfing her in flames, literally. DM collapses to the floor beside the dead guards and the weight of the entire, entire building seems to be on her shoulders. Her life felt so purposeful months ago, but now everything is hazy, dark, and would be laden with having to live with this guilt. She knows she has to give up her job as a healer. She can't look other patients in the eye knowing she caused so many deaths, completely breaking her vow. Her perseverance to find her mother seems wasted on the fact that she is most likely dead. She's not. But I understand why she thinks that way. After her run in on the road, her relationship with Henry seems like it's going to be forever changed. And if there was some universe in which it hadn't, the Guardians would force him to choose between her and them. And we all know what that choice would be. And besides, she feels like Henry could move on from her. He will. The healers would be safer without her. And she believes her family would be better off without her, putting them at risk so often like she did last episode. Quote, maybe that was exactly what I deserved. This is d' Am Bella Tour's true rock bottom. Everything she's held dear, everything that gave her purpose or drive, has come crashing down. So why shouldn't she crash down with it? So with the smoky air replacing any oxygen she had left, DM surrenders to the darkness.
- [70:06]
Lexi
But then that damn voice comes back. Fight. DM doesn't want to. Okay. Fight. No, she's made her choice and doesn't feel like there's any point in fighting. Fight.
- [70:17]
Nicole
While DM slowly realizes she's not dying, a certain magic is activated. An energy blasts through her.
- [70:25]
Lexi
Her godhead is like, too bad. Let's fucking go.
- [70:29]
Nicole
Diem's skin gets icy pulses, the steam of the heat sizzling off her skin. Montyos magic activate. But it will be hundreds of pages before DM realizes that she not only has Lumnos magic, but all the Realms magic, at least the one she's been to.
- [70:49]
Lexi
It might even be a thousand pages.
- [70:51]
Nicole
It might be closer to a thousand. But right now, now DM is literally using it. Now, I would be so curious what the scene would have been like if Diem had already been to igneous and thus already had fire magic. But we don't know that yet. And DM is way too into Lululand to even comprehend it.
- [71:09]
Lexi
And she's able to take a deep breath of air, surprised that her lungs are clear and unscathed in a building on fire with thick smoke that can suffocate a person. And her brain still feels smoke fogged and disoriented. That is not descended magic. That is not any other kind of magic. That is her uniqueness shining through there.
- [71:28]
Nicole
That is her literally being indestructible. As highly kindred is what I think that is. She believes that this moment, it's the final straw. It only took two months of her off the flame route and all the hallucinations to have fully transformed into her. Her losing her mind right here and there. Which again, I'm not going to give this a Delulu rating, but to be honest, if we were to, I would give it a pretty low one because this is like incomprehensible. And if she has this, you know, weird, unexplainable second chance of life, she might as well put it to good use and save some other lives.
- [72:06]
Lexi
And thank goodness she does, because when she heads into the corridor back on the path, Elixe informed her of. DM calls out hello one more time. And Perth, my boy answers. We will get to know Perth as a loyal guard and glow. I just love him so much. DM follows the voice to a room off the main corridor and finds two guards in there. One is unconscious and the other, who we will later learn is Perth, is trapped beneath a fallen beam. Quick note before DM saves the day. There's a line as she's searching for survivors quote, as if the gods themselves were listening. Do you think the gods are indeed listening? Because I wonder, like, is it only her godhood that is telling her to fight? Or is it like the ancient kindred within her, or the kindred that are linked to. I'll call it activating her godhood, or is that only reserved for when she becomes crown? We will see several instances of divine intervention and I'm going to assume this is one of them, at least with the beam, maybe not the godhood.
- [73:02]
Nicole
I do think the gods are not only listening, but I don't think that this is just the gods like the kindred. I wonder truly if the amount is a child of both a Kindred and someone descended from the Everflame. I wonder if it's not only the kindred, but also the old gods who are listening. So there's all kinds of people up in there with the. With the fate.
- [73:24]
Lexi
So you think that they're all like having a good old meeting together and like, okay, let's talk about dm. Today they have a conference call.
- [73:30]
Nicole
They have the giant screen in front of them. They're seeing what to do with this moment.
- [73:34]
Lexi
The relief of coming upon a such someone who isn't just alive but also conscious, is a metaphorical breath of fresh air. DM can still save a few people from certain death. She can at least make this right. So she channels her sheer determination and is very surprisingly, but not at all surprisingly, able to lift this very, very heavy beam, which I think she said at one point is ten times her weight. And it's trapping Perth. No mortal should be capable of lifting this.
- [74:01]
Nicole
With Perth out from under the log, step one of getting them closer to safety is done. But with DM unable to carry both men, she and Perth hoist his body on top of an unconscious descended, using him like a stretcher. And with Perth holding on tight to that man, DM grabs the unconscious man's arms and balls with all of her might. Diem pulls the two men to the entrance where Luther is waiting for her in a panic. And seeing that she's on her last bit of energy and willpower. He screams that he's coming in for her. Oh, I can only imagine the prayers that he would sending up to Mother Lumnos when she was inside the burning building. His magic slithers across the floor towards her and curls around her rib cage and attempts to yank only her forward, saving only her. This is the most on brand thing for Luther. But DM shockingly is like no. So she grabs one of his ropes and alarm, alarm, alarm. The second her hand brushes against his magic. Huh, how interesting. A tingling energy bursts through her body. Yes. This is now the second time this book we have seen her absorb others magic. Luther pulls the two men out of the collapsing building and their lives being saved means everything to Diem. At least for today. I'd saved their lives and in a way they'd saved mine too. They saved the version of her that she believed her life to be lost, Unfixable. Tainted with this victory, she may still have a soul that she cherishes. And with the values that she holds dear. Maybe her life isn't as lost as she believed it to be.
- [75:38]
Lexi
As Luther strides into the building to help Diem, their eyes lock and they are thrown into a vision with an ancient primal force passing between them. DM describes this force as not of this world, but entirely woven within it. It warmed my blood with a calming peace I'd never known, yet filled me with the terrible dread of a fate I could, could not avoid. This feels so kindred, coded, especially with that not of this world, but woven within it. That's like forging magic right there. And then the terrible dread of a fate like. Ah, I just love this writing so much. This is also the same vision DM had back when she was eavesdropping on the guardians in Fortos. Though this time it has a little more detail and there's that strange connection, this force between her and Luther. In her vision, DM is standing on the same bloody drenched battlefield with silver flames. And she's surrounded by a circle of dead bodies. She's wearing the glittering onyx armor and carrying a gilded night black blade in her hand. But this time DM is not alone. And the shadowed figure from her previous vision is now visible as if he'd thrown off a great cloak of darkness. This figure is standing in front of DM with his jeweled sword and hand dripping blood. When DM makes eye contact with a familiar set of eyes, the most beautiful heart wrenching ache burns against the left side of her chest like where her Heart is. And both she and the figure simultaneously reach up to cover that spot on their palms. And there's the vision. There you have it.
- [77:02]
Nicole
Oh, my God, there's so much here. Okay, number one, if you, like me, were curious about this silver fire, aka.
- [77:09]
Lexi
Why is it silver?
- [77:11]
Nicole
We know that DM's skin glows silver when she's using Forto's healing magic. And then things flash with a silver light when she's using her fortoes killing magic. But that's light, not fire. So in this vision, could this silver fire be. I'll call it leftover from her bursting with Forto's killing magic. And that's why everyone is dead.
- [77:31]
Lexi
I thought that fortoast killing magic is decaying from the inside, and the silver light is specific to diem and being the daughter of the forgotten. But you are right, though. The silver light does appear often when she's using Forto's magic. Magic both healing and the death type.
- [77:47]
Nicole
Because of the wording difference there, I'm gonna actually kind of put that one to the side because I think you're right. I think they're two separate things there. I think that this silver fire is actually something else entirely. We know that all the gryverns breathe fire in the colors of their descended lands. So Sarai has blue flames, the montes gryvin was lavender, Umbros is black flame, etc. Etc. Silver is another word word for gray. So what if these flames are actually from Ophiuchai's gryvern and that's why they're gray now? In the battle at Sophos, I just searched everywhere in these chapters and it could not find anywhere where Ophiuchai's gryvern's fire was stated. It's only called dragonfire, spelled with a Y and pale flames. But it would also mean if this is Ophia Kai's gryvern's fire, it would mean, and that his gryvern is, and thus Ophiuchai is responsible for all the bodies on the ground. Which feels right. That it was Ophikaya, not Diem.
- [78:47]
Lexi
Yes, I'm leaning toward this or even that. The silver fire is straight up from Ophiuchi himself.
- [78:53]
Nicole
Yes, exactly. Number two, in this vision, she is wearing the glittering onyx armor. Yes, this is the armor made of godstone that by the end of Heat of the Everflame, Elisheva is working on for their army. Number three, DM is holding a knight black blade. We will later see this blade in Sophos. Along the blade Are words written in a language that Diem does not recognize. And apparently, it belonged to the Kindred. I cannot wait for more on this. Number one. I 1000% believe that this language written along the blade is the language of the homeworld, of the Kindred. Yeah, but question. Which Kindred do you think owned this blade?
- [79:35]
Lexi
I'm wondering if it was Omnos's blade and the fact that it was his is lost to history. It would make sense that Sofo does have it, since they seem to know the most about the tale of Omnos. Yeah, and that's why it will feel all warm and fuzzy for DM when she holds it for the first time. Like how her godhood recognized Omnos's name in a way it doesn't with the other Kindred. I just really think that it's his. Yeah. So do we think this Night Black blade is made of Godstone?
- [80:03]
Nicole
I don't think so.
- [80:04]
Lexi
Maybe it's material that can actually kill the Kindred. We know, for instance, that Godstone cannot, because Black Knight sounds like Godstone minus the glittering.
- [80:13]
Nicole
I'm with you on that one. I think it's something maybe like a branch of Godstone or Godstone is a branch of this type of metal.
- [80:21]
Lexi
Oh, it's like it's opposite. Where you can kill the Kindred while the other one can't.
- [80:26]
Nicole
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And next. Oh, my God. I have been waiting for this. Number four. Looking at the shadow figure with a jeweled sword. This can be none other than Lord Luther Quarbois, Prince of Lumnos. These two lock eyes and quote, the most beautiful heart wrenching ache burned against the left side of my chest, right over her heart. She puts her palm over the ache, and Luther mimics the movement so much. Here we know that mating marks are created after you and your mate cut yourself. And the bond is created along with the mark over where you bled in the library in Sophos. Luther accidentally caught himself with an apple knife right over his heart as they were talking about their future together. And he goes on mushy, gushy looking in his face. Quote, his eyes were aglow, but not with his usual luminous light. Something warmer. Diem then is stabbed at the end of his heat in the heart, right after thinking about her love for Luther and her wish to have him as her mate. And she's curious because this feeling feels warm. Quote, There was an unexpected pleasure in it. Too kinky. A particular rightness. A feeling that I just gained something I desperately wanted. And when you touch your mating mark, it pulses with a soft, warm glow. This is them touching their mating marks that they now have at the end of Heat of the Ever Flame. We do not have this for certain, but I am so convinced it's, like, not. This is also why I think the space over Luther's heart was not scarred after the attack from Remus, despite it being in the direct line of this huge scar that goes up his body. Mother Lumnos knew he needed that place saved for his mating mark with dm. I am a puddle.
- [82:17]
Lexi
I do wonder what caused the vision to happen right here and now between them. Going back to dm, wondering if the gods are listening. Could this be from Mother Lumnos? Like, I'm so curious about the rhyme and reason to these visions, especially the shared ones.
- [82:31]
Nicole
I wonder if it was a little bit of, like, you have a bigger purpose to play trust. Yes, you have a bigger purpose. So I. I think it was a message of, don't give up yet. There's more happening in the back end that you can even know.
- [82:44]
Lexi
So, going back to when DM first got her vision, when she was first learning about the Guardians. I wonder if that was also very much on purpose as well. Well, with her kind of learning about this other force here and her kind of seeing where her future lies.
- [82:58]
Nicole
Well, because if she'd never learned about the Guardians, she never would have been in this situation in the first place. As dark as it is, it was this butterfly effect. So I feel like Lumnos is kind of. It's almost her sending these visions as a nudge. You're going in the right direction.
- [83:13]
Lexi
Yes.
- [83:13]
Nicole
As the vision disappears, DM and Luther still hold the position, each of them laying their position, palms flat over their chests, enamored by the vision they both saw. And then crack. A massive bean finally gives out, and the rest of the roof along with it. And the whole world goes dark.
- [83:31]
Lexi
DM wakes up the next morning with distant memories from what happened after she fell unconscious when the roof collapsed. Someone. Luther assured her that she'll survive. This person was begging someone else. Eleanor, to help dm and that she prefers pants. And then DM goes unconscious again. When Luther asks Eleanor's question about who this woman is to him, quote, I think she. She what? She went unconscious again. What? What? She is the next crown. She was brought to me by Lumnos. That's kind of what I'm leaning towards. She is the love of my life. Just kidding. I don't think they're quite there yet.
- [84:07]
Nicole
I was absolutely. Maybe not the love of my life. But like, I. I could absolutely see something. Like she was brought to me by Lumnos. I could also see, I think she's my mate.
- [84:18]
Lexi
Through all of this murkiness of consciousness and unconsciousness, there is one thing that stands out, at least to us readers. Luther equals safety, familiarity, and comfort. As he carries her, he feels like a hard, warm wall. And his hands are strong and gentle. Yeah, they are familiar with voice that feels like it's intimately ingrained in her, like it's more than a memory. Ah, I love that description so much. His bed that she lays in smells like home. You all the moment that an MMC smells like home, you know where this is going. So this next morning, she wakes up in the palace in Luther's bed. In fact, his room is so Luther too. Simple but elegant furnishings that seem unassuming.
- [84:59]
Nicole
Waking up with Luther at her side. Something feels very different between them. Last night's roof collapse seemed to have also collapsed the walls normally in place. Between them, Luther's hair is askew. His eyes are exhausted. His clothing is less formal, with wool trousers and an untucked, wrinkled shirt unbuttoned partway down his chest. Yummy. He's casual and unpretentious and hot. I am a puddle for this man. Up until this point, we've only seen Luther as Prince Luther, head of the guard, heir to the throne. But this is just Luther, raw and vulnerable. There are few who see this version of him. Lily Taran may be a lix, but I would wager that Diem is one of three, if not most, five people. But the fear of losing her last night might have destroyed any wish for him to keep his walls up. And the hardened, princely look on his face came tumbling down as the two of them are distracted by a piercing cry from Sarai, talking about the gryvern and how she seems nervous with the changing of the crown and her docile nature of preferring treats and naps to training or fighting a fake opponent.
- [86:06]
Lexi
Do you think Sarai is more anxious and nervous because DM was harmed?
- [86:09]
Nicole
Yes. Oh, I love that.
- [86:11]
Lexi
The transitioning of the crown coming later in the day. Like literally later this day. But I think she's been fretting all morning due to DM's condition. And Luther nor anyone else knows better right now.
- [86:20]
Nicole
Oh, I love that. I love that a lot. Yes. This is when DM compares herself to this creature, saying that they have this trait in common. Wanting snacks instead of training. And Luther laughs unabashedly. Laughs. He is relaxed. He has almost A lazy posture to him. Previous to last night, we can assume that Luther was starting to doubt the trust he had put in this woman, who, you know, was believed to be a messenger from Lunos herself. Herself. But after DM's choices, no matter how terrifying they were to him in the moment, I think he too realized that, no, she is exactly the person that Lumnos promised would come. And it caused him to feel this.
- [87:00]
Lexi
Ease with her, despite running into a burning building and having the roof collapse literally on her to the point her clothes were destroyed and Luther was so terrified for her life. DM seems completely healed. Sure, her body feels like it has a hangover, but nothing more. What? What?
- [87:16]
Nicole
What?
- [87:17]
Lexi
No wounds, no swelling, no nothing but soreness and a stiff neck after everything that happened last night.
- [87:24]
Nicole
All right, pause. Because the way he says that quote, the armory collapsed and you were knocked unconscious. It feels like we should have our antennas up here. The whole flaming roof fell on her head, and she lived to tell the tale. Something that probably would have killed the other descendant. And she was just knocked unconscious. Is he trying to soften the blow here because she was so much worse? Or is he completely stumped because, yeah, she was just knocked unconscious and not completely dead? Or was he so terrified that he thought he was losing her? So he's saying knocked unconscious so he doesn't have to relive those horrors too?
- [88:00]
Lexi
D All of the above.
- [88:01]
Nicole
D for dm. All of the above. But oh, dm. DM diem with realizing she's completely, completely healed after a fucking burning roof collapsed on top of her. Can we say that enough? It is our job as podcasters to play our favorite game, How Delulu is dm? Like I mentioned, something that would have severely injured other descended, if not killed other descended. Can I say that enough in this episode leaves her feeling next day like she's no worse than a night of hard drinking. Keep in mind she's 20. So a night of hard drinking that you might might have done at 20 and how you felt the next day. Think about that. Spoilers. It's a hell of a lot better than 30s. I had a Limoncello. That was it. I had a Limoncello when I was over at my husband's family's house and I felt like I was hit by a bus the next day. A Limoncello is this big.
- [88:51]
Lexi
Guess it's got, like, some sugar in it.
- [88:53]
Nicole
Maybe.
- [88:54]
Lexi
But, yes, your point stands.
- [88:57]
Nicole
Normally on the show, we would give DM a package pass for, you know, her more than normal descended powers. When they come into play. Because those types of things should be impossible. So it makes sense that she's like, what?
- [89:10]
Lexi
And yes, listeners, we have heard you that we have been very, very soft on DM with our ratings.
- [89:17]
Nicole
But I'm so sorry, dm, that excuse does not cut it when a fucking building crashes on top of you and you just have a stiff neck. Like, you gave me too hard of a blowjob last night. This is my first five that you get on the dulu DM scale. She even has the most powerful descendant in the realm looking at her like, are you fucking kidding me?
- [89:39]
Lexi
Yep. I have been saving this five. It's not just for her being completely healed after all of that and feeling the quote, invasion of unwanted suspicions threatening to break through my carefully constructed walls. In other words, she knows. She knows. But she's trying so hard not to even let it slip into her mind. This five is also because she got that tingling sensation again while in the burning building. And suddenly she wasn't feeling the inferno around her. And her lungs were better. She had super strength to lift the beam and drag two guards to safety. Cold bursts go over her body and there's a cloud of steam. Another vision. Her body gets coated in a shape shimmering silvery sheen when she unknowingly absorbs Luther's magic. There's probably more that I'm forgetting. Add in what happened last episode when she went up against a descendant's magic and healed after a blade sliced her throat. And everything that happened with Ron and his crazy magic.
- [90:35]
Nicole
Dm.
- [90:35]
Lexi
You have officially run out of excuses and you are in full blown deluland before an all healed DM leaves the palace. Luther's wondering if she can. We can check on King Ulther. Yes.
- [90:46]
Nicole
Do you think he's asking because he's like, maybe seeing the king himself will like give her something? Or do you think he's actually asking for the king?
- [90:54]
Lexi
I think actually asking for the king because he's deteriorating so much and they're really worried about him. Yeah. And upon seeing him for this quick check, she reluctantly agreed to DM will note that up close she can see just how much his condition has deteriorated since she saw him over three weeks ago. It's almost his time to go. We also get a little peek into why Luther is so strict about titles and formalities when he goes to kneel before the peacefully slumbering king. Because DMs like he's unconscious. Why are we doing this? But Luther believes there's a purpose to the protocol because it distinguishes between one's public facing role and the person behind it, because they are two different people. And while Luther doesn't say this outright, I understand it as, when you perform the formality, it sets the tone for the interaction and keeps kind of like which person you're talking to, the role or the person behind it. For a political family like the Corbois, I can absolutely understand why Luther believes this and enforces it, even if DM feels differently.
- [91:49]
Nicole
Well, and I can also see why Luther would want it, because he is someone who has always been treated like the heir presumptive, and he's never been treated like Luther. So if someone comes up to him and does that formal greeting, he's able to know, okay, you're treating me like I'm gonna to be the next King of Lumnose. But if someone comes up to him and treats him more normal, it would be able for him to be like, oh, okay, this is this person just wanting to hang out with me as Luther. But he never gets that, because even in those normal reactions, he is still having to realize everyone wants to treat him, to get something from him.
- [92:21]
Lexi
Exactly.
- [92:22]
Nicole
With Luther's demeanor today seeming to be made out of glass rather than its normal steel, DM chooses to ask some questions to the the prince about his relationship with the king. Not because she wants the information to use it against him, and especially not for the guardians to know, but instead, simply because she sees a nephew sad at the soon to be death of his uncle.
- [92:42]
Lexi
And they're sitting on opposite sides of Ulther. And DM places her hand over Luther's as it rests on the king's chest. They're gonna hold hands over the King of Lumnos.
- [92:51]
Nicole
And Luther obliges to her questions, sharing that his father and his uncle were quite close. Luther even was named in Ulther's honor with the two first letters just literally being switched. But from a very young age, Ulther became more of a father figure than Luther's own father, Remus, the king's regent. And through that bond, a wedge was created in the family. Think about Remus and his motives. He does whatever it takes to be in power. He's always craving more of it for his own gain and no one else's. Seeing, seeing his son, a bastard and a half mortal, to be treated with more care and preparing him to be king with this super extra power. Yeah, it makes sense in his character. That would absolutely wear on Remus's nerves.
- [93:33]
Lexi
But doesn't Remus see a vision that his son will be the king of Lumnos. And that's why he was so insistent on keeping his half mortal son alive in the first place.
- [93:42]
Nicole
I think that. Yes, and I think that that even could be clouded by seeing it in action. Action when he actually sees Luther starting to get more attention, Luther starting to get more respect, and Remus would almost put himself in comparison to Luther.
- [93:58]
Lexi
I. I see where you're coming from. Yeah, I think. And maybe we're saying the same thing here with Ulther kind of taking Luther under his wing. And it's almost like Remus has been pushed aside.
- [94:08]
Nicole
Exactly, exactly.
- [94:09]
Lexi
And when he is now pushed aside and in the shadows, doesn't matter who he is to the king, he. There's a wedge now between him and the power that he wants. And the power he wants is in Luther.
- [94:19]
Nicole
Well, especially knowing how he treated Luther as a kid. I can imagine him being nervous knowing that Luther might be king someday and being like, oh, fuck, like I sliced my son open and he's gonna be the next king.
- [94:32]
Lexi
We're gonna talk so much about the Corba family next book. Oh, my gosh.
- [94:36]
Nicole
Yeah, I can't wait. But despite the brotherly feud, it didn't deter Ulther's treatment of Luke Luther. He might have been the only person in the realm who had nothing to gain from me, and yet he showed me more kindness than any person ever has. Oh, Luther. Later in Luther's POV chapter in Spark, we learn that after Ulther's mate died, this mentorship to Luther became a purpose giving light for Ulther in his grief. Being presumed the most powerful in the realm, it left Luther constantly having to wonder if someone's kindness towards him was genuine, if they were wanting their own gain. We will see this in a large scale with Ileana. Does she really love Luther? I personally don't think so. Did she love the idea of him, what he could be, the power he had, and who she felt like she could help mold him into? Yes, absolutely. But the true Luther? No. Few people got to see that person. Ulther is one of them. However, despite of that close relationship, the uncle and nephew did not always see eye to eye. We know that Uther passed the progeny laws because of the other houses trying to rid Lumnos of mortals altogether. And Ulther had to compromise. But Luther has been actively working against those laws for who knows how long. Of course, Diem does not know that yet, but we also have some extra insight again from Luther's POV chapter, that some other evils Ulther had Luther can never forgive. So I wonder if he's also referring to having a whole house wiped out after his mate was killed or even even other things that we just don't know yet.
- [96:01]
Lexi
You're right with other things we don't know yet. And Pen has teased that we will learn more about the Corpois family and burn, so I wonder if we'll get a little bit more insight into his reign.
- [96:13]
Nicole
Oh, I hope so.
- [96:14]
Lexi
Oh definitely Remus. She has told us that we will learn a lot more about Remus. So yeah.
- [96:19]
Nicole
Oh my gosh.
- [96:19]
Lexi
I'm so excited when Luther asks DM if she thinks Ulther had been a bad king. I think he's genuinely openly asking for a mortals perspective. As much as he tries to help the mortals and offer assistance to those in need, Luther does not truly know the mortals conditions or live in their shoes. There's no way he could. At one point he admits to DM that he didn't realize it was this bad immortal city or he would have done more. And in heat he admits to DM that he will never know what it's like to be mortal like her, even if they're both half mortal because she lived only almost all her life as one of the mortals. So here he is wondering how was Ulther as a king for someone outside of the descended houses? Because of course they're all smoozing to him and he might never get the real understanding of what they thought about him as a king. And Dan doesn't exactly have very many nice things to say about him. After all, King Ulther was responsible for passing the progeny laws. It's interesting how she gets such a contrast of the descended crown that has passed bad lot and is to blame for so many innocent deaths and the reality of the old dying man before her here. Like Moira said earlier in the book, in the beginning and in the end, mortal and descended are the same. She can both empathize for this dying man right here and feel angry about the injustices he served on the mortals. It's who DM is, and it's also like her to speak up and use her voice when she gets the ear of the future presumed king of Lumnos.
- [97:42]
Nicole
One of my favorite lines in this whole whole series is when DM says quote if the death of innocence is the cost we are willing to pay, then we don't deserve to be powerful.
- [97:51]
Lexi
Yes.
- [97:52]
Nicole
Not only is this going to be one of those lines that just make me go like this is why DM is the queen that they need now, but it's also because I love Luther's reaction here. He might not answer, but the light flaring behind his eyes says it all. Just like DM is seeing the real Luther in the scene, here is Luther seeing, seeing the real dm. He's seen her fight guards. He's seen her threaten to slice off his balls and shove them down his throat. But now he's seeing how at her core, she does believe in goodness over power. Oh my God. If he didn't already love her, I think that this would have for sure done it.
- [98:25]
Lexi
Yeah, I've always figured he was kind of testing DM with his line about even if the cost required is to keep our realm powerful because we know he doesn't actually believe that. About what? The mortals. And that's when she throws that line that we love so much, much back at him.
- [98:39]
Nicole
Perhaps believing her normally steel wall is also made of glass. Today, Luther Prize asking what DM was really looking for the day she ran around the palace at her dismissal, he goes on asking if it was for the Guardians. Skrt. I don't know what you're talking about, Prince. I don't know. I don't know what you're saying. But surprise. It's his literal job to know what's going on in this realm, so of course he knows who they are. I love the dig quote. They aren't nearly as covert as they believe themselves to be. So good. It just brings such a smile on my face knowing that Vance and Henry and the like are over here, like, believing they have the upper hand and they're so clever. And Luther's like, yeah, I fucking know all about them. And even knowing that they were behind the attack last night, on a first read, this is such a what moment? But on a reread. And it's like, of course he knew about Aurally and her working with them. He knows DM is working with them. Remember, he's seen her go in and out of meetings. He believes DM has taken over Arlie's role because of the mutual connection with the Guardians. Remember, he doesn't know yet that DM has no clue her mother is a Guardian. He believes she knows. But just like DM felt when she was hiding from Luther in the hallways, she still doesn't believe she can trust him. And to be honest, I absolutely get it. And I'm Team dm There. They've had a lovely morning. The walls are down. But what if it's just a ruse to get her to lower her guard so he can get information. Despite her anger with the guardians and separating herself from their cause, she doesn't feel like giving them up to one of the most dangerous men there is. Fair.
- [100:09]
Lexi
If Luther is playing 20 questions, then so does DM. But you know what? She only wants one question answered. Where is her mother? This question has been festering in Diem's heart since the day of her mother's disappear. She has asked herself this question a million times in a million different ways. And here is the one person who she knows has something to do with her mother missing. Just kidding. DM actually has two questions for Luther. What did he do to her mother? Notice how Luther danced around answering her first question. Yep, we will see that also in Globe. Now, we've discussed at length on the podcast about how fair it is that DM thinks Luther is behind her mother's disappearance. So, yeah, totally reasonable for her to ask this direct question question. And in hindsight, we know this is as far from Luther as possible. And he's insulted by this assumption, assuring her that whatever DM thinks happened, like seeing them arguing and orally blackmailing him about some secret, it didn't happen. DM doesn't settle for vague answers like that, though, with a flashlight directed at his face. What happened to my mother, Luther? I can imagine the internal agony that Luther is going through right now as we get a glimpse of it with him working his jaw in silence. It's like he wants to give her some relief because he does know what happened to her mother and she is away, not dead like DM dreads. But he also doesn't know how much DM already knows about her mother. And he made a promise to Orly after all. Oh, we are going to talk about this so much in our glow. Deep dive.
- [101:33]
Nicole
I remember when Pen was on the intro episode, she made a very clear note that both Henry and Luther are hiding her mother's whereabouts from. And it is just so interesting to see the. The internal battle and how Luther is dealing with it and the internal battle and how Henry dealt with it by saying like, oh, the old gods of. You know, I pray like all the old gods. I know she's okay. He thinks that's enough. And here is Luther literally at war with himself, unable to know. Not. I don't really think I'm. I'm not putting one above the other because I think honestly, both of them are just trying to keep their promises to Orly.
- [102:08]
Lexi
I agree. And I don't think that it's like willy nilly with Henry at All.
- [102:13]
Nicole
No.
- [102:13]
Lexi
Yeah, I think that it is.
- [102:16]
Nicole
Yeah, he thinks he's telling. He thinks he's giving her as much information as he possibly can to calm down his conscience, in my opinion.
- [102:24]
Lexi
I think he's trying to actually calm DM and help her out and as much as he can.
- [102:28]
Nicole
I. I think you're right. But, lovebirds, this standoff will have to wait because with a knock at the door, two guards enter, pulling away Luther's attention. Attention with whispering in his ear, well, Luther's got to take this call. And it looks like Luther is willing to give Diem a second or maybe fifth chance. At this point, he's going to leave her alone with the king, but under no circumstances is she allowed to leave this room. No running, no fishiness. You got that? Damn. So after giving her multiple chances, this is Luther's I'll say final test, but I might put that in quotations. Final test for trust with dm.
- [103:05]
Lexi
The roller coaster that is their relationship is just all over the place in chapters 28 and 29. I love it. I do too. As DM will think when she's fleeing the palace soon. She thought she and Luther were kind of becoming friends, and yet she accuses him of being responsible for her mother's disappearance. But then they have a nice heart to heart about Luther and Ulther's complex relationship as well as who he was as a king. And they hold him hands or place their fingers together, whatever. Same thing. They don't know they were holding hands, but they were. And here he is placing his trust in her moments after she argued with him about where her mother is. Maybe it's not so much a test with her, but he's like, considering this Lumnosis test.
- [103:44]
Nicole
Yeah.
- [103:44]
Lexi
Ooh, I guess it's kind of one in the same though, right? A test with DM is a test with Lumnos. And also, he probably thinks she's better in here with the king than accompanying him in the palace to attend to whatever the private matters are.
- [103:57]
Nicole
So with the king's chamber's doors slamming shut, she is left with the unconscious king of Lumnos and a knife in her boot. There is a snake in my boot.
- [104:10]
Lexi
Like we've been saying, DM has been torn between looking at this old man as who he is here right now. Someone on his deathbed. And at least in this moment, alone for a few moments, DM doesn't even trust herself not to hurt him. She considers removing herself from the king's presence or handing over her weapons so she doesn't feel tempted. I can understand her fear because she has wanted to make him pay for all that he has inflicted upon the mortals. From her perspective, the King certainly deserves to die. But this man here isn't the arbitrary king she's always known about and cursed. This man is fragile and unconscious and nearing his last breaths. And Diem has learned very recently that she has no stomach for murder. There was defending herself and two others against Ron and his shadow magic where she attempted to stab him in the neck. And then there's this and last night with people who in this moment are not doing anything wrong. So she offers him the compassion Moira has praised her for. DM gives him comfort while holding her palm against his to match their heartbeats. Another little thing that I just love, she whispers. The sacred rite of endings which is just so poetic. The descendant forbid this rite of the endings which is from the old mortal religion and here DM is giving it to the king like wow. Because that's how she knows how to offer comfort when someone is fading to the beyond.
- [105:24]
Nicole
But then, just as the final word from the mortal rite of ending finishes, a crackle of energy shoots between the King and DM and with a vice like grip his hand clasps onto earth and his eyes fly open, already locked on her and he croaks out, you finally come. Welcome to the chat, King Ulfur.
- [105:47]
Lexi
I wonder if he felt her aura and it's made his own godhood wake up. I like it.
- [105:53]
Nicole
But naturally DMs like what the fuck? Arthur is like I'm nowhere near done though saying quote they told me you would come for me. Note the use of the word. Then they when your cell and even the Montios king will share with DM that they've heard about her from their own direct kindred people, they will have heard about her. They will have heard it through their own direct kindred connections like Umbros and Monteos. But Ultor says they so while unconscious he has been maybe chatting with the whole he was in the group. He was in the. He was in the council meeting. He was looking at the.
- [106:30]
Lexi
In the conference meeting.
- [106:32]
Nicole
Yeah.
- [106:32]
Lexi
Wait, yeah, yeah, he zoomed in, right? He zoomed in.
- [106:39]
Nicole
But he goes on they told me your blood would shatter our stone and lay waste to our borders. We will see this at the end of glow when DM's blood breaks the heartstone at her coronation. Then in heat we will see the borders start to break down. No longer keeping the descended magic only within their own realm. But I also have a feeling that These words go beyond the forging magic breaking down. It is entirely possible that DM ends up queen of all Omarion at the end of next book. Depending on, you know, where the rest of the crowns are and if they demise or not. The quote, lay waste to our borders. It might also mean getting rid of the whole separation that divides Omarion and instead creating a whole continent.
- [107:23]
Lexi
Ooh, I love all of that. See, I was thinking that when he makes this reference to her blood shattering on the Heartstone and laying waste to the borders, he was also referring to DM freeing Ophiuchai, since he is on a mission to lay waste to the borders. And it's like a double meaning with the forging magic between the realms breaking down.
- [107:40]
Nicole
So Alther's skin begins to shine bright with an unnatural glow.
- [107:45]
Lexi
Ah, where have we seen that before? When powerful kindred magic is at play.
- [107:49]
Nicole
As his Luminos crown appears above his head, the wispy shadowing black vines are melded with the twinkling stars. It's so beautiful. And his grip tightens on her. He says, quote, I am not afraid. Devourer of Crowns. Ravager of Realms. Herald of Vengeance.
- [108:07]
Lexi
What a title. Dani from Game of Thrones would just be so impressed with that.
- [108:12]
Nicole
Absolutely. Let's go through it. Number one. Devourer of Crowns. We're already seeing this by the end of Heat of the Everflame, as DMC collects crowns like their Pokemon cards. Ravager of Realms. Ravager means a person or thing that works havoc or does damage. So she'll wreak havoc through the realm and damage it. As ominous as it is, I believe it's in a sense of destroying the realm as they currently know it. Almost like it's needing to break down in order to build it back up. Or like you're saying she'll be part of the Butterfly effect that leads to Omnos's. Excuse me, Ophiuch ties. Maybe one in the same his, you know, ravaging of the realms. And last but not least, we have Herald of Vengeance. Herald means a person or thing viewed as a sign that something is about to happen. Like the Blood sun is a great example that this bringer of the sign of vengeance. So who is she taking vengeance against?
- [109:07]
Lexi
I wonder if it's DM taking vengeance out on Amarian as we know it. The superiority of the descendants, the violence of the mortals, the selfishness of the crowns.
- [109:17]
Nicole
I love that thinking. I'm also going to throw in the idea that this could be Ophiuchai taking out his Revenge on behalf of the Kindred themselves. And like the anger that he has from being locked away for so many.
- [109:29]
Lexi
Years, I also wonder if it's the Kindred's vengeance. They are disappointed in how the Descended have oppressed the mortals. And that was never the Kindred's intention. So Diem is the herald of their vengeance. Gotta break everything down to build it back up. Or if she is Omnos's vengeance. And if that's the case, maybe there's a connection to the Kindred's curse. That sounds like it could be connected, right? Vengeance and curse?
- [109:49]
Nicole
Absolutely. I think so. Yeah.
- [109:51]
Lexi
Then things get really weird. Friends. Ulther's voice abruptly changes and sounds much older and otherworldly and. What? It's a female's voice? Ah, yes. We will learn later that this is Lumnos speaking through ultimate Ulther as he nears the end of his life. Much like we'll see with the dying Fortos King and heat. Lumno says through King Ulther, quote, give him our gift, Daughter of the Forgotten. When the end has come and the blood has spilled, give our gift to my faithful heir and tell him this is my command. We're back to Gift Watch. Apparently we have that now too. And I'll be honest, I think we are missing just a few big puzzle pieces to theorize in any truly rational way. But that's not to going going to stop us. So let's break this down. We are strongly assuming, though cannot confirm this faithful heir. This him that Lumnos is referring to is Luther. He is her faithful servant. She has already spoken to him in the past. And he would have been heir to the Lumnose crown if it wasn't for Diem, who is not from Lumnos, but rather Omnos. So he kind of is the heir to the Lumnose crown. Technically. Which leads us right into the reference of Daughter of the Fort Forgotten. Yep, there's this name for DM again, that she's already been called once before by your Cell Queen of Umbros in chapter one. Months ago on Foraging day. And it most certainly won't be the last time, even in this book, that DM is called Daughter of the Forgotten. She is the daughter or descendant of the forgotten 10th kindred who ruled over what is now known as the Forgotten Lands, who is called Omnos, which means all in Latin. All the crowns, all the magic, all the realms. Then we have the line about when the end has come and the blood has been spilled. My only guess is that this is the Climax of Burn the vision that DM and Luther have seen coming to life, leaving us as Lumnos's command. Give my faithful heir our gift. I believe that when she says our gift, she is speaking of all the Kindred's gift. Probably the nine of them. So what in the world could this gift be that Luther will need when the end has come from more Kindred than just Lumnos? I wonder if it's something to with do with the heart stone, because that seems to be at the center of everything revolving around the Kindred and their magic and Amarian as a whole. It could be tied to the Kindred's curse, though how, I'm not quite sure, because we still don't know exactly what that is. It might be something that the Kindred hid away, maybe around the Kindred's temple on Kuriel. And DM might find it while she's stuck on the island. Thinking of what we know about gifts in this world so far, there are the Ascension Ball, gifts from the other realms, including the compass that Luther already has in his possession by the end of Heat. However, those gifts are from specific realms, not all of the Kindred. There is the eye color. That DM has a gift from her father. As Uriselle says in chapter one, the Kindred had gray eyes. So maybe somehow DM has to give Luther her eye color, and that's how they'll have their happily ever after.
- [112:35]
Nicole
I'm so sorry. Can we pause for a minute? Because what color are Luther's eyes?
- [112:39]
Lexi
Blue. Gray.
- [112:40]
Nicole
Blue. Gray.
- [112:41]
Lexi
Yes. Yes. Great.
- [112:44]
Nicole
Yes. So. So what if he has this, like, this all gift as well? He can also tap into all magic, but he hasn't gotten the gift yet.
- [112:54]
Lexi
Oh, and, like, in order to get the gift, he has to. And once when he gets a gift, then he has to activate all the magic.
- [112:59]
Nicole
Something like that. I don't know. I'm going to noodle on this.
- [113:02]
Lexi
All right, sounds good. Mating bonds are referred to as gifts from the Kindred. And Glow. So. So maybe this is Lumnos commanding Diem to give Luther her heart. I knew you'd like that one. When the descended pray to their Kindred, they give an offering of magic to offer the gifts the Kindred bestowed. So is this a gift they've already bestowed, or is it a new one? Ah, I just love trying to figure out these meanings. And, yes, I did. Keyword search all three books for the word gift. There's a whole lot, so I'm sure I'm missing more. But luckily, this Is not the last gift gift Watch. But DM is freaking out right now, and not in the good way like we are about this nugget of deep dive gold. When Ulther's grip releases her wrist, DM staggers backward, which causes her to trip over a nearby chair. Then she crashes to the ground. And this sends Breck's blade out of its sheath and onto the stone floor. She grabs it and holds it defensively. And that's when the guards walk in. So here they are seeing DM on the ground with a fortop oozing steel blade in front of her that she's holding. And she's next to the king. And these guards came running in here because they heard yelling in a struggle. Oh, dear. Oh, dm, this is bad, bad, bad. You kind of really look very guilty that you just tried to kill the king and fell in a struggle. Yes, ma' am. You are in a pickle. Make that a double pickle, because Luther is here now, too. Yeah, it's another pickle. Now we know what DM was actually doing. Doing? She was tended to the king before Mother Lumnos channeled through him and gave a message to Diem. She had wondered very briefly about whether she could indeed be trusted in the same room as the king with a blade that could kill him. But she knows and we know that she is not capable of murder. This is an old dying man in her eyes. Not someone actively trying to do violent harm to innocence. But we're all in agreement. This looks bad. Luther, as high general and person aware of DM's involvement with with the Guardians, who was just listening to her say this king passed bad laws. And then she got rightly mad at Luther about where her mother is. Like he'll say soon he wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't suspicious. Suspicious to the point where he is checking on the king for injuries to ensure DM is telling the truth, that nothing happened. She's insulted. Like she had been before when she was accused of being capable of hurting a child. But more than anything, DM is hurt by his suspicions that she would do such a thing to this old dying man. Her faith and her identity as a healer is already gone. So much so that after the explosions went off and she thought, this is my fault, she'll quit her career as a healer. Here someone else is showing how much they don't believe in her upholding her healer vows like point and simple. That's what he's doing right now. Someone who loathe as she is to admit it, she was beginning to call a friend and she cares about his opinion of her. And yeah, what she won't admit is that she's attracted to this guy who now thinks so poorly of her and is judging her.
- [115:48]
Nicole
With the sting of Luther's suspicious look, kicking her mind into must get out of here now mode. DM sprints out of the palace only to hear footsteps chasing after her and Luther's voice calling her back. Everyone, it is time to hold on to your butts. Making it to a secluded pebbled path along the walls of the royal grounds. A hand closes around Diem's wrist and pulls her into his large chest. DM's hand brings her knife instinctively up to his throat while the other clutches onto him for dear life, for balance, all while Luther's arms are curled around her waist. DM is still riding the adrenaline from Ulther's mysterious words and being caught in the king's chambers holding a knife. It is causing pure instincts to take over. But the issue here is that her two instincts are at complete war with each other. One side of her is trained to fight, that side to brings the Photosian blade up to Luther's throat, pressing it into him so hard that blood starts to trickle down her hand and the other is clutching onto the man for dear life, confused by this attraction she can't seem to make sense of.
- [116:51]
Lexi
Ah, friends, here's our Romanasy story. Just step aside, Henry. Step aside please, my boy.
- [116:57]
Nicole
Meanwhile, Luther, he wants to explain. Of course he suspected her. Like Lexi mentioned, he would have been stupid not to, and it would have been been an insult to her and he would not dare show her that disrespect.
- [117:09]
Lexi
I gotta love how this was a lose lose situation for Luther. DM was insulted that he did suspect her, and she probably would have been a little insulted if he didn't either. Story of Luther's life.
- [117:21]
Nicole
I know in Luther's Spark bonus chapter we get a little bit more insight into what's flying through this beautiful mind of his. He wonders if this intense draw to her is lust for the woman, if it's madness for how badly he craves her. Or quote perhaps with the king dying and a life bound for duty quickly closing in, I'd seized on the first thing I truly wanted for myself in as long as I could remember. And despite a million words unspoken and DM's knife against his throat, the two are panting together. Each breath their bodies are moving in closer and closer. DM threatens to take his life, asking Him? Why? She. She shouldn't just rid herself of him right now with a swipe of her hand.
- [118:00]
Lexi
I think DM has proved she is not capable of this. But you know, she still is feeling very threatened by this man.
- [118:07]
Nicole
Exactly.
- [118:08]
Lexi
And his response is so poetic. He doesn't fear death. Every breath he draws is as much a curse as a gift because of feeling trapped in obligation. And he's been on borrowed time for longer than she can imagine. Which yes, he would saved from certain death by Lumnos when he was a child. And he's been waiting for her, the leader for him to follow. So if she is the way his fate catches up, at least he got to meet her. So what a beautiful end it would be.
- [118:35]
Nicole
And if her hand is to be his demise, he asks for only one favor. And one favor only. Quote, Let me die with the taste of you on my lips. And they fuck. No, sorry, not yet. They kiss lips, color lighting her dagger dropping. These two are completely lost in one another. Luther has been lustin after this girl for over a month now, knowing before he even met her that she would change his life forever. But not having any clue just how much he would be attracted and drawn to her. Meanwhile, dm, who has been completely confused by the unpracticality of their connection, feeling completely out of control by her pull to him. She is automatically not someone who thinks about love just in general. She thinks about relationships in a very practical way. Asking herself the question, does it make sense? Yes or no. But there's no sense to Luther. No practicality, no control, no reason behind why her mind goes blank as his hardness rubs up against her. End quote. That scared me. Even more than a blade to the throat. Every sentence in this kiss scene is the embodiment of exactly what she wanted from Henry on the road to Fortoes. I can't believe I'm bringing up Henry in this perfect moment. She wanted raw battle burning. There's even lines in the scene comparing Luther to an inferno. This is the opposite in every which way. From the careful softness that was Henry Albanon and the words her father said at dinner come to the forefront of her brain. Quote, the truth is that I just knew. I'm so happy.
- [120:14]
Lexi
I just love this little tidbit so much because DM is always leaning on her father's advice when she has to fight or be strategic in cornered situations. And right now she's like telling herself that's the kind of situation she's in. But her heart already knows that's not what this is. Andre's only advice that she can think of in this moment is about love. Pen, you are the queen of writing a slow burn romance. I love, love it. I think we said this during our intro episode with Pen, but this kiss scene was not in the original book. It was a very last minute addition right before Pen sent out her arcs. Because she did receive some feedback that at least a little bit of spice might be nice for this slow burn of all slow burns. And turns out this kiss is Minnie Reader's favorite scene in Spark of the Everflame. But these two aren't done yet. DM puts her walls up because what the fuck? She should not be kissing a descendant. And especially not be liking it.
- [121:06]
Nicole
Liking it a lot.
- [121:07]
Lexi
By the way. Can we notice how not once here is she thinking about Henry. Like, not once does she even mention, like, oh, I should probably be thinking of Henry. Nope. Nothing.
- [121:17]
Nicole
Nothing. I give you the plot of Glow of the Ever Flame.
- [121:22]
Lexi
Even there, like, she's like, no, no, no. I'm an engaged woman. Like, what about Henry? And then she's just like, who?
- [121:30]
Nicole
Wait until the massage scene. Oh, gosh. Yes.
- [121:34]
Lexi
So she goes on the offensive, accusing Luther of just wanting action. And she does not work on Paradise Row. Quote. He couldn't have looked more disgusted if he tried. After all, they barely know each other. Luther is practically a stranger to her. So what does she know he wants? Oh, dm, darling. You know what he wants. Luther comes back with one of my personal favorite quotes that I have memorized. The only person you're good at lying to is yourself.
- [121:59]
Nicole
If that doesn't tell you where our priorities are, listeners, I truly don't know what will.
- [122:03]
Lexi
I can be romantic. If you doubt me, just go listen to our Silver flames coverage. Okay, that was where I had my book boyfriend.
- [122:10]
Nicole
That's true.
- [122:11]
Lexi
This quote that I really like about how she's the only one who's good at lying to herself. It sounds like Luther's been playing how Delulu is DM too. Actually, let's be honest. DMs been playing the game too.
- [122:22]
Nicole
She.
- [122:22]
Lexi
She just knows that she's been dulu as well.
- [122:25]
Nicole
She's just been rating herself at like a 0.5 or lower every single time.
- [122:30]
Lexi
Speaking of DeLulu, DM. Luther's magical aura is reaching out to DM. It's caressing her and causing that voice within her to what, Nicole? Luther speaks the truth out loud. He can feel her magic too. We'll find out just how strong her aura is and how Luther has been able to feel. Feel it since soon after she got off the flame route. But at first he thought it was someone else, like a descended preteen coming into their magic. Then he realized that every time DM was at the palace, the aura intensified, and he quickly put two and two together. That it's coming from her. And the only reason she can feel his power, which she's been feeling since her first trip to heal Lily, is because she is also a powerful descendant. So here he is, not accusing her of being a destination descended because of her eyes, like she's honestly gotten for the past 10 years. He's calling out that she can feel his magic, and he can feel hers. His magic is pulled to her and hers to his. She's no more mortal than he is. And oh my goodness, I love the significance behind that fact he gives. Because he is half mortal, half descended, too. They're the same amount of mortal. So what? Is DM refusing to admit she's descended because of the progeny laws? No, no, no, no, no. He's wrong. He has to be wrong. Like this is just not even an option. Luther at this point is more so convinced that she knows she is half mortal, but has such a hard exterior that she won't let the truth be exposed at all. It's not until glow that he'll learn the truth that DM really does believe she has been only immortal all her life. And yes, we've discussed a lot about how she has had superstitions, but she pushes them so, so, so far down and refuses to acknowledge. Because acknowledging even. Even the slimmest possibility that maybe she is half mortal would unravel her entire life. And she'd have to come to terms with the fact she has been lied to her whole life by her beloved mother. Before DM leaves the palace, just a few more things Luther wants to say. Number one, he won't enforce her mother's bargain and tell her can stay in school. That weight of responsibility that DM has been feeling since kind of the beginning of the book, it's been lifted. So that's good. Number two, he wants DM to be the palace healer. I assume so Luther can keep seeing her, but alas, DM says for the first time out loud that she's going to quit being a healer. And number three, she saw the vision too, right? Quote what if our story isn't over? DM Bellator? What if it's only beginning? And right after he says that, just like in the dream, she feels an ache on the left side of her chest. Is that foreshadowing for her future meeting Mark right as he says, their story is just beginning. In this moment, Mother Lumnos is kind of like nudging things along a little bit.
- [125:02]
Nicole
Maybe Mother Lumnos is in full matchmaker mode right now. She's like, come on kids, work it out. Oh Lumnos.
- [125:12]
Lexi
In return, DM can right one wrong of hers. She tells Luther about the hidden entrance to the palace and insists he get it repaired today. What's not said is before the Guardians attack again, amidst everything else going on and her life feeling turned upside down, I know this doesn't feel like a weight off her shoulders, but now at least she'll be able to ease her mind. No longer having to wait for the Guardians to take action on that front, she's able to do something proactively good to prevent innocent lives lost. Doesn't matter if it's for the descended. DM has drawn the line in the sand now. Save innocence, period. In this magic fueled segment of the episode, let's tap into our Umbros magic and turn our full attention to important foreshadowing moments for the rest of this book and series, including speculations for book four, Burn of the Everflame. DM thinks about how she's been jealous of Lana because she's the kind of pretty girl who captures men's attention. She's the exact type of girl DM has noted Henry has shown interest in in the past and they will fall in love and Lana will fight for her man against dm who will not be jealous in the slightest anymore, even though she is right now for different reasons. But yes, you all get.
- [126:17]
Nicole
She's like, I got that Luther dick. I don't need the Heather dick anymore.
- [126:22]
Lexi
So much foreshadowing for Lily and Teller's romance and also the sadness that it causes specifically for Teller because he knows that they can never be truly together because he's immortal and he thinks at the end of the day she deserves better. Like when DM is teasing him about Lily at the family dinner table and he gives her a look with a sad, defeated heaviness to it. DM can't consciously imagine liking the descendant, so she isn't being very sensitive to the very real heartache that such a relationship would cause. DM thinks she's catching Luther in a trap. To forbid me would be to prioritize a mortal over his own kind. A display of weakness the future King of Lumnos couldn't risk. Well, dm, when you become queen, you will fight hard for the mortals, as you should and certainly come off as weak to the other descended. But luckily then we'll have the challenge challenging and then it'll all go sideways again.
- [127:13]
Nicole
This is more of a question, but we get multiple instances of quote as if he heard my thoughts. When it comes to Luther and Diem throughout the series. Do you think this means anything? We know from Eleanor that mates can sense emotions, but I'm assuming that's only after the mating bond is accepted and solidified. So is this just a hint to how closely they are intertwined? We know that she can sense his feelings through his aura. So is this just like how in the mates weeds they are?
- [127:44]
Lexi
That's my understanding of it, yes. Well, because she will get the umbros magic and heat. So I don't think there's that telepathy between, you know, mated bonds or because they're not mated yet either. So I do think that it's more so a nod that they are meant to be together. They are two halves of a whole. And it's a nod to that.
- [128:00]
Nicole
There's even this moment where she. She thinks Luther in her mind and then his eyes fly open, finding her immediately. And yes, you guessed it, Luther is in italics.
- [128:10]
Lexi
See, like with that I can imagine he is woken up by a nudge within him that she. She said that like his godhood was like. Like, hello, hello. But he wouldn't know what that poll was of yet. Yeah, exactly.
- [128:24]
Nicole
We of course have every moment of Diem and Sarai's interaction from how Sarai is worried about the next crown shift, even though she suspects it being dm. When dm, almost in a daze, walks over to Sarai in the king's chambers and Luther's like, no. Damn.
- [128:40]
Lexi
I gotta say, I can't wait for Glow when Sarai is such a bigger character and is in like the meat of our episodes. Because right now it's like we promise we love her.
- [128:48]
Nicole
It's just not quite there yet. And last but not least, when leaving the palace, DM says that she never wants anything to do with it or anyone in the palace ever again. Give it like 50 pages, DM if he said yeah. Now it is time to enter the Sophos library where each episode Lexi guides us through a world building topic to help us deepen our understanding of this world, the people within it and its magic.
- [129:15]
Lexi
Today's Sophos Library topic is the Descended. It feels like a fitting time to finally dive into who these magical people are. Are. Let's start with how the Descended came to be the birds and the bees. Descended Version when the Kindred came to Umarion, a world that mortals already occupied, each of these nine immortal siblings fell in love with a mortal. Instead of watching their beloveds wither to old age and die, the Kindred abandoned their eternal youth and bound their lives to their mortal Levas. This was performed through the Foraging Spell, which split Omarion into the nine Realms we know today. Each realm was infused used with its Kindred magic. If you want to learn more about the Kindred coming to Umarion and everything around that, please check out our episode 1 Sophos Library where we covered the history of Foraging Day. The half mortal, half Kindred offspring of these unions are who we know as the Descendant. The Kindred all had gray eyes, and as part of their creation of the Foraging magic with the Realms, their children would be born with the eye color of their realm of Origin. And mortals would have brown eyes. So all Descendant and Lumnos have blue blue eyes. All descended from Fortoes have red eyes, and so on and so forth. All Descended are gifted with magical abilities which develop around puberty. Anyone who has a drop of Kindred blood, like for instance half mortals, will inherit the Descended eye color and magical abilities of their realm of origin. Let's start with abilities that all of the Descended have, which again, they get when they grow up a little bit. So children do not have these abilities yet. All Descended have quick healing. This super fast healing makes most illnesses and injuries harmless. For example, if a Descendant broke a bone, it would only take a fraction of the time it would take a mortal to heal. The downside to the Super Healing means that an injury could heal incorrectly if not treated before the healing kicks in. Descended also have skin that Mortal blades cannot pierce. They also have super strength. This doesn't just apply to their actual physical strength, which is much, much stronger than mortals. CDM lifting a beam 10 times her weight in the armory to save my boy Perth. Their bones are also extra strong. Actually, that does also go for the Descended children too. So strong that mortals and even some of the weaker Descended can't set a broken bone. Leaving this task to the strongest to set a bone. Each of the nine Realms have two powers that a Descendant can get, with the strongest uncommonly getting both powers from their realm. A Descendant gets these magical abilities only from their realm of origin. Like I was saying, it is unheard of and impossible for a Descendant to have powers from from multiple regions until Diem descendants. Powers vary in strength and it's never a guarantee that Powerful parents will pass the same level of power strength onto their children. Like we see with Eleanor who was born because her parents are so powerful, yet she turned out to have weak magical abilities. In the case of a child being born of parents from different realms, the child will inherit the realm magic from whichever parent has the strongest magic. The magic does not mix or combine. They do just get one realm's powers and eye color. When a descendant leaves their termer, which is their realm of origin, they lose access to their powers unless they are given permission from the realm's crown. The crown is the only one who has the ability to tap into their realms. Forging magic to give anyone who is not from their realm their powers back.
- [132:15]
Nicole
Fun fact. Te in French means Mother Earth in English.
- [132:19]
Lexi
Oh my gosh, I love that so much. Moving on to descendants Weaknesses While the descendant like to think they are indestructible, they do have a small handful of weaknesses which include Godstone. It's a very rare substance made from the Kindred. It is lethal and a painful death for the descended. Furtosian steel, a handful of rare poisons and Flameroot which temporarily nullifies their magic. If we're talking about the descended, we gotta talk about their air of superiority. Pinkies up everybody. Many if not the large majority of descended believe themselves to be far superior to the mortals. Based on what we've seen, this tends to be more prominent in descended who hold positions of power, especially if they come from a well known influential house. In other words, they have the most to gain from oppressing the mortals. This is why many of the realms place heavy restrictions on mortals or even ban them outright, not wanting anything to do with them in their realm. Unless you're in Montios who banned mortals because they kept dying in the mountainous territory and they felt it was the best way to protect affect them. Over the generations, this way of thinking has driven a wedge further and further between the mortals and the descended. We've talked about this at length with the Guardians mission, but it is just a general feeling for the mortals about the descended. They believe that the descended infected the mortals thriving kingdom like a virus, infiltrated their homes, religions, cities and universities. And then they ban or restrict mortals from those very same places that they themselves built so long ago. While different realms have different rules and regulations for mortals, there is a general deep rooted disdain toward the descended across all of Omarion. Much like the Guardians. Some mortals would love to see the end of the descended completely. Others just want to live with a more equal footing and that is at least scraping the surface of what we know about the Descended.
- [134:02]
Nicole
Let us close out this episode with skipping around the apple orchard talking about our favorite moments. I adore Lily's nonsense. Stop babbling when she sees Diem in Lumnose City. I especially love how much she tries to set up Luther and Diem, because at this point I wonder if Luther has already started talking to Lily about Diem, to the point where Lily will eventually make up a game of changing the subject and seeing how long it takes for him to bring the subject back to dm. That is adorable the way DM talks.
- [134:31]
Lexi
To Luther and how later he'll say this is when he fell in love with her. Quote first of all, if you ever call me fragile again, I'll slice your precious royal balls off and shove them down your throat, my girl. And then the cherry on top is Taryn smiling and looking at her curiously like, oh, she came to play.
- [134:49]
Nicole
I like her DM talking back to her godhood as it's trying to save her. She says, quote fine, leave me alone. I'm up. Of course every freaking second of Luther caring for DM when she's in and out of consciousness and he's shaking, holding onto her limp body, promising her that she will live and DM noting that she feels so very safe in his arms. Then of course to when he tells Eleanor that she prefers pants to wear rather than dresses because of course he's noticed and would make sure she got what she needs. Then when she is laying in his bed, the smell seems similar to her beloved forest. Quote it smelled like home. I melt when Luther pulls DM away from Sarai and saves her by holding her to his body and by complete instinct she grabs a hold of him just as tightly. He holds onto her and Sarai lets out a little. I love that even Sarai is shipping these two so hard when Luther says.
- [135:46]
Lexi
It'S disturbing how unusual it feels to hear DM call him your highness. I just love the through line about the titles between these two. It's such a fun addition to their relationship and banter. All right friends, thank you so much for listening to this episode four of our Spark of the Everflame Deep Dive.
- [136:02]
Nicole
We cannot believe next week is already our fifth and final episode of Spark. We will see you again on Monday where we were diving deep into the end of this book, chapters 30 through 32 and of course the epilogue.
- [136:15]
Lexi
We love to give the biggest warm welcome welcome welcome to our newest Crowns Council members.
- [136:20]
Nicole
Thank you so much for joining. Sarah R. Scott S. Courtney, M. Christina, S. Taylor, Elena and Summer. Welcome, welcome, welcome. We are so grateful for you and thank you, thank you, thank you for supporting the show.
- [136:33]
Lexi
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts. And if you're like hey, I want my name shouted out on the podcast and to be shout with all the love to join our fan club@Fantasy Fangirls.com Fan Club. The link is of course in the show notes.
- [136:46]
Nicole
Thank you as always to our top SOFOS Scholar, AKA our Content researcher Brooke and of course our Executive Producer AKA our Sanity manager Hayden.
- [136:55]
Lexi
We are very active on social media with weekly trivia, Amarian guides and lots more. So please be sure to follow us on Instagram and slash or TikTok at fantasy fangirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube or want to watch on YouTube for the Henry Hat references, although we did not have one this episode. But don't worry, we definitely will. Next, please hit that subscribe button to keep following along.
- [137:15]
Nicole
And while you're hitting button buttons, please do not forget to rate and review this show. It takes two seconds to hit that five star button to write a little love note in the review section. And please, please, please do it for every podcast that you listen to on a regular basis and that you love. It is so helpful. And of course, last but not least, share this episode with your fellow Everflame friends. If your favorite scene was the kiss scene and you needed to experience it in a different way with a fellow feral girl going through through it, this is a good one to send to your other friends who like Luther a lot.
- [137:50]
Lexi
All right friends, there we have it. We will see you next week. Thank you so much for joining us. Bye bye bye. Wake me up. Sorry comes back. I wish I could roll my artist so badly. No, I've tried. I lived in South America. Everybody tried. I can't.
- [138:13]
Nicole
Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [138:15]
Lexi
And I'm Noah Michelson, also from HuffPost.
- [138:17]
Nicole
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [138:24]
Lexi
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [138:32]
Nicole
And we're talking like legit, credible and experts, doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from.
- [138:38]
Lexi
HuffPost and Acast Studios.
- [138:40]
Nicole
Check out Am I Doing It Wrong.
- [138:41]
Lexi
Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [138:43]
Paige
Hey, it's Paige from Giggly squad. Real talk. If there's one store that I absolutely love walking around, it's Sephora. It's my total guilty pleasure. They have amazing brands that other people don't have, and I find something great every time I walk in, and there's literally one down the street from me, so I do that a lot.
- [139:01]
Nicole
Lot.
- [139:01]
Paige
It's so fun to shop in the store and online, and the products are just too good. No regrets ever. For example, one of my favorite beauty brands is makeup by Mario, who just launched his new lip gloss that I absolutely love. So the next time you're in the market for great beauty, shop all the hottest products and brands only at Sephora.