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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
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- [01:12]
Nicole
Welcome, WELCOME welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls Podcast where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character themes, theories and more.
- [01:22]
Lexi
I'm Lexi, older sister and Fantasy lore nerd.
- [01:25]
Nicole
And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart.
- [01:28]
Lexi
And today is our last episode, Deep Diving Spark of the Ever Flame by Pen Cole, where we are covering chapters 30 through 32 and of course the epilogue. But before we begin this episode 5, please listen closely to our spoiler warning. In this episode we are talking about the end of Spark of the Everflame, which means spoilers for Spark as well as all three released books in the Kindred's Curse saga including Glow and Heat of the Everflame as well.
- [01:53]
Nicole
The epilogue alone could be an entire episode of Fantasy Fangirls with how much foreshadowing there is. So if you don't know what Orly means when she goes into a glittering black cave, then please go finish the series, especially Heat of the Everflame. We will be here when you're done.
- [02:10]
Lexi
Next, we a Fantasy fangirls, are adults who say adult things about adult books. In other words, friends, this podcast is.
- [02:15]
Nicole
Rated R. While we don't have Luther Korpois on the page today, we do get a family fight and things get dark. So please, please do be mindful of those little listening ears.
- [02:29]
Lexi
Additionally, we are so excited to see you at upcoming live events. Nicole and I are hosting an Imperium Trivia night in Boulder, Colorado on July 10th. We will be featured guests at Enchanticon in St. Louis, Missouri, August 15th through 17th.
- [02:42]
Nicole
Then we will be at the Everflame Ball along with Pen Cole for the first ever Kindred's Cursed Saga Ball on August 30th in Castle Rock, Colorado. We will also be back at the Dragon Gauntlet in Boyne City, Michigan September 12th through 13th.
- [02:56]
Lexi
Then romantic bookcon in Orlando, Florida October 23rd through 25th where we are interviewing Rebecca Yaris again at Disney World.
- [03:03]
Nicole
Check out our website or the links below for more information to all of these events.
- [03:07]
Lexi
Last thing before we jump into this final spark of the Everflame episode. If you love fantasy fangirls and want more events, more content, more community and just so much more all around, please check out our Fantasy Fan club.
- [03:18]
Nicole
We have three membership tiers that you can join. Number one, the Descended, which includes access to our Boppin Discord live Q&As from Lexi and I Book Club exclusively of author interviews, community events like trivias, promo codes for live events, plus exclusive designs and 20% off all merch. That is for $6 a month. Or you can join the Royal Family which includes everything from the Descended level plus early access to ad free episodes, our full episode outlines and special voting privileges. That is for $10 a month. Then we have the Crown's Council which includes everything from the previous two tiers plus behind the scenes content, a welcome gift, giveaways, private Discord channel, and your name shouted out on the podcast. That is for $25 a month.
- [04:03]
Lexi
Join the party at fantasyfangirls.com fanclub. The link is also in the show notes and really and truly friends, thank you so much for supporting us as we've turned this podcast into our dream come true. It's all because of you.
- [04:15]
Nicole
And now it is time to become the Queen of Lumnos.
- [04:20]
Lexi
Yay. And our story really begins.
- [04:23]
Nicole
I know.
- [04:24]
Lexi
To kick off every episode, Nicole does us the honor of summarizing this stretch of chapters. So gather round as we consult with our royal advisors to discuss what happens in chapters 30 through 32 and the epilogue of Spark of the Everflame.
- [04:39]
Nicole
Chapter 30. After putting in her two weeks notice, effective immediately, DM heads to Henry's house and just stands there. But when she finally gets the courage to knock, knock knock, Henry waltzes up from behind her. Dude wasn't even home. And maybe that was for the best because Henry is quite salty about DM lying her choices to run away from the Guardians. And what is she wearing? Luther's shirt, that's what. But Henry does not know that yet. During their lovers spat, Henry reveals that he did indeed know that that little girl from DM's test mission was poisoned on purpose get ready for quite the Henry hat today. He also informs DM that the Guardians are not happy and she should probably watch her back. Ominous, bro. And since he's just spilling all the tea, he might as well keep on pouring. Andre's been recalled to the army and he's already accepted a week ago. Chapter 31 It's a long walk home as DM contemplates everything, and I mean everything. She's jobless with no savings in this economy. The Guardians are out to get her. Taking down the descendant is harder than she expected. And to top it all off, Teller's dreams are screwed. Her father is marching off to war, her mother is still missing, and Luther. I mean, what isn't there to think when it comes comes to that man. After arriving home, DM is immediately interrogated by her father. Like Molly Weasley would be proud of this interrogation. Not only is the commander upset that DM stayed out all night at the palace, he's also upsetty spaghetti that his 110% absolutely mortal daughter ran into a burning building when she said that she was only going there to help, not risk her cough. Mortal cough Life Things are finally calming down when DM mentions her mother's bargain with the palace. And well, it's safe to say that Arleigh wasn't keeping secrets only from diem. And things only escalate from there. Slowly giving into the voice inside, DM pushes and pushes and pushes her father to his limit with words intended to cut him down like his own blade. But ultimately that limit is reached and he kicks DM out of the house. Chapter 32 Storming into the night, DM finds herself burning up. Who's got the heat cranked up to thousand degrees? Teller tries to talk to dm, but Girl can't hear him over the voice inside her head. No, I'll tell you what you want. What you really, really want. Daughter of the Forgotten, DM surrenders to the Spice Girls as she shoots a beam of light up through her palm straight into the sky. Last chance, dm. Are you positive you're not mortal? As fast as the tingling light came, they're gone. DM looks up at a horrified Teller, who gives her the good news. Congratulations dm. You are the next contestant on the Price is Right. Just kidding, dm. You are the new Queen of Lumnos. Epilogue POV Change Adding another line to her rose of chalk, counting the days, Arlie Bellator has been sitting and waiting in a very remote location. After checking on her selected locations and each of her stockpiles, including the special surprises. Girl is even keeping secrets in her head. Arlie makes her way to the glittering black stone door. Creeping down the steps, she tosses a match only to find an old blood stain. Filled with relief, Arlie makes her way back up the stairs to a large black temple, and that's where the ground begins to rumble and one of the obelisk's flames goes completely out. Off in the distance, across the sacred sea, Aurelie watches a beam of light shoot into the sky just as a twin beam shoots down, hitting the the glassy stone in front of her. That light can only mean one thing. Well, two things. The king is dead, and in 30 days, Arleigh Bellator will get to go home. End of book.
- [08:07]
Lexi
Alright friends, it is time to reach for the foraging magic and unravel key insights, character analysis, lore, foreshadowing theories, and oh so much more. Immediately after leaving the palace the morning after the armory explosion, DM goes straight to the Healing center and quits. She knew right when she first heard the explosions at her family's house that she couldn't continue her work as a healer. This explosion was because of her four people died because of the information she passed on to the Guardians while on a patient visit, and the guilt of that will carry with her forever. DM doesn't believe she deserves to be a healer anymore after she contributed to such death and pain. And what's more, being a healer is not her chosen path. She was already subconsciously questioning her career as a healer. She's great at it and has been taught it since she was a little girl. But this was her mother's choice for her, not DMs. She never had her own path to possibly go on in the first place, and now DMs world has turned upside down. Oh girl, just wait a few more chapters. Amid everything she is unsure of, being a healer is one thing she can no longer identify with.
- [09:09]
Nicole
In the series, where so much is chosen for DM or things feel out of DM's control, I do have a quiet pride for her around this decision. Quitting the Healer center doesn't mean that DM will no longer think of herself as a healer. Those values and those rules are embedded into her nervous system, but her feeling at rock bottom here, she's still taking reins over her life quote, even if it led me into the misty unknown. I'm just so proud of her.
- [09:35]
Lexi
Me too. Me too. It's like last episode when she felt a shift in the sale of her own journey and While she doesn't know where life is leading her, she does know this is not the path anymore. And as scary as it is, she is embracing it. And that's something to really be proud of, no matter what, no matter who you are. But luckily, and honestly, not to anybody's surprise. And Moira takes the news well. After all, she's the one who called out that DM's heart isn't in healing and she only ever wants the best for dm. Go Moira. We love you.
- [10:05]
Nicole
I am quickly learning that Moira might be one of my favorite characters, obviously besides luther in book one, because what a 10 out of 10 boss.
- [10:12]
Lexi
I know, I know. I just love her so much. Their hours of conversation, including both laughs and tears, was also probably so healing for dm. No, it might not have had a lasting effect because you know, she's about to go have to face off with Henry. But dang, DM needed that connection with a maternal figure during a turbulous time. And then I love how Moira absolutely wants to ask questions about what the heck DM's been up to, but she doesn't because she knows now's not the time to pry. While we'll see Moira a little bit in the next few books, this felt like such a send off for all of us with her. And I'm really gonna miss Moira and her good natured sass.
- [10:46]
Nicole
And then there's DM's conversation with Henry. Oh, buckle up buttercups. While DM was anxious to talk to Moira, the fear of going in to talk to her best friend has her rooted to the floor. The lac time she saw him, she was running away from him and the other Guardians after having tricked them into slightly letting down their guard. And in that time, it feels like so much has changed. DM doesn't want to work with the Guardians anymore. She ran into a burning building. Saving descended. She slept over at the palace. Note she's still wearing Luther's clothes, going to talk to her fiance or her almost fiance. And she kissed another man and loved it. Despite what her logical brain is trying to tell her, everything that connected Diem and Henry together feels like it has been flipped on its head. But they are still best friends. That hasn't changed and she feels like she owes it to him to clear the air. Note she doesn't feel like she needs to apologize to him, but instead ask the questions she needs to know the answers to and provide the answers she knows he's seeking. And subconsciously, I also think she's feeling a little guilty for kissing another dude. Maybe not like for the act itself of the kiss, but more for like what she felt during the kiss, AKA all the feelings she thought that quote unquote, time would give her. With Henry, she felt instantly with Luther.
- [12:04]
Lexi
And might I remind everybody, she did not think of Henry once when she was having that kiss with Luther. And it's only until after now. And all the whole fact here, it's like, oh yeah, well, she never even.
- [12:14]
Nicole
On the page says like, oh, I feel guilty for kissing another dude. Like she does. Yeah, she. I. I think it is subconscious. I don't think it's at the forefront of her brain because to be quite honest, she has one way more other things on her mind right now. So practicing the beginning of their conversation over and over, the entirety of her thoughts leave her head the second she raises her hand to the door. But then a voice calls behind her. Hello Henry.
- [12:36]
Lexi
Okay, this entire conversation requires a Henry hat. It's the rather disastrous culmination of what these two represent and what we've been discussing throughout this deep dive. For those of you watching this on video, you may be thinking, huh, A chef hat isn't such a crazy hat when you're about to defend Henry's involvement in the very bad things the Guardians do. And you'd be right. Which is why this isn't just a chef hat. We've got Remy from Ratatouille under here pulling the strings over these past four Spark episodes. And even during our intro episodes interview with Pen. It's important to keep bringing up how aligned Henry and DM used to be in their hatred for the descendants. Yes, Henry has had an extra dose of hate for the descendant because he hasn't been sheltered like Diem. But together they've spent countless hours villainizing the descended and envisioning a world where the mortals have true freedom. Henry is now leaning more into exactly what they've spent their lives believing in and sharing together. Down with the descended and rights for the mortals. Then there's Diem, who is running into Lumnose City to save descendants lives at the cost of the Guardian mission. She's showing up to his house wearing royal guard pants and a descended man's tunic. We may understand her POV and how her journey has led her here, and we commend her heart for trying to right wrongs and do the morally right thing. But Henry feels like DM is changing sides and abandoning her own kind. It goes right back to that us versus them. That Dm might want to believe, but her heart can't divide innocent people up like that. So, yeah, this conversation is doomed from the start. With DM wearing the enemy's clothes, royal guard attire, no less, who are known for being rough with immortals. And he realizes she slept over at the palace. I guess that answers our question from last episode. I know we were kind of like, wondering, but nope, he does know. Although I don't think he knows that it was in Luther's bed. That would be a very different conversation. No matter what, Henry genuinely feels betrayed by DM here.
- [14:32]
Nicole
I'm gonna give Henry this. He's starting out concerned for her and seeing if she was injured in the fire last night. He is angry. Absolutely. We will get into that in a moment. And he's balancing it with making sure his best friend is okay. Right off the bat, his priorities are the Guardians. He showed that last night. But his care for Diem is still up there on the list too. It's not so black and white. But when learning that she's not injured, but she still slept over at the palace. And again, wearing another man's clothes, I think part of his anger is also a bit of. Maybe jealousy isn't the right word, but because, as she claims it, she was unconscious but not hurt, and yet she still slept over at the palace. Also, in his mind, he sees her loyalty wavering. Obviously, the loyalty to the Guardians is wavering, but more so to Henry and their mutual hate for the descendant that has bonded them for well over a decade.
- [15:22]
Lexi
And that's not even mentioning what she did last night. Henry vouched for DM with joining the Guardians. There was serious hesitation with her acceptance because of her father's role in the army and her mother's strict rule not to involve DM in the Guardians. But with Henry's encouragement, his belief in her value to the Guardians, she was given a chance. Trust among the Guardians is absolutely essential. And at the first big opportunity, she betrayed them and risked a Guardian mission to save the very descended the mission intended to destroy. She put their lives at risk. She put the mission at risk. She put all of the Guardians at risk. And now she's proven she can't be trusted with following orders. And way more importantly, she can't prove that she has loyalty to the Guardians over the descended. DM is officially a major liability for the Guardians, and Henry is stuck in the middle of his two loyalty.
- [16:15]
Nicole
The truth is, neither one of them have been truly faultless in their communications with one another. Henry has found his way around the truth when talking to DM about the flowers or the tattoo or her mother. And yes, we have called out each and every one of those moments, so it is fair to highlight this moment where Henry is calling out DM for her lie. Last night, Henry believed her when she said she'd drop her mission to go help the injured because she didn't want to jeopardize the Guardians mission. Even if Vance and the other Guardians didn't believe her in the moment, Henry believed that she really wanted to put the Guardians over her need to help others. And given how DM has thrust herself into Guardian mode, I get why Henry would believe her hierarchy. Now. This all has a big asterisk next to it. Because last night he wasn't thinking of her feeling like a prisoner or unsafe surrounded by six men hyped up on murder. Which did contribute to DM feeling like she needed to lie her way out of it. His eyes were instead laser focused on the mission and DM and not fucking it up, basically. So my extension to Henry has a major aspect next to it.
- [17:17]
Lexi
Well, he thought he knew in his heart DM wouldn't choose a descendant over a mortal under any circumstances. Just like the way Diem knows Henry wouldn't let a child get hurt to need a healer, right? Yeah, about that. DM had put two and two together that the Guardian set up the house call from a few weeks ago with their need to call a healer. She had already raised her suspicions about the convenient timing to Henry and who assured her it was a blessing from the old gods. I am nodding my head like crazy. Here's my hat will be extra crazy. But then when the little girl told her the woman who gave her the death shade had brown eyes, DM realized that a mortal poisoned the little girl so they would call for a healer, which would be dm. Which can only mean that the Guardians were behind this. However, DM assumed Henry was not aware of this setup because he would never lie to her and send her into that situation unknowingly. Yeah, but like we discussed a lot in that episode, Henry did know the Guardians poisoned the little girl and that's why DM was being called to their house. And now is when the truth reveals itself to dm, where she realizes just how different her values are from Henry's and that they don't see eye to eye anymore. I won't rehash what we already went over in episode three, but since I already have my Henry hat on from Henry's perspective, DM is not looking at the bigger picture, she is on an impossible and quite frankly, unrealistic mission to not let any innocent be harmed in this mortal rebellion against the descended. And then as far as Henry is concerned, there is no innocent Descended. They've killed thousands of mortal children. What's wrong if one of theirs dies from accidentally ingesting the death shade? And what's more, Henry is urging DM to look at the greater good. Henry asks, quote, if one spoiled descended child had to have a mild rash for a day so thousands of mortals could live, how can you say that's not a price worth paying? And even DM can't directly answer his question because she can't pick a side and instead leans on the fact that he lied to her. Because him lying at least feels like there's a right and wrong to it. Looking at this, a mild rash can save a thousand lives. Philosophically, that very well might be considered a price worth paying. The Guardians were able to set back Bennett's shipments for months. They were able to take weapons out of descendants hands and arm half of the rebel cells on the whole continent. That's huge. That is a huge victory for the Guardians in their fight against the Descended. I'm not trying to take a side with right or wrong here. I'm just channeling my inner chidi from the Good place and looking at this from a philosophical point. But we also know that it doesn't end at Childe with a mild rash. Four Descended guards lost their lives because they were working in the armory when it exploded. Which brings us back to Henry's loathing of all Descended. The guards who are on duty were guilty because they are descended, because they take orders from the evil leaders. As far as Henry's concerned, you can't pick and choose who among the enemy is innocent and who is guilty. At a certain point, they're all guilty because they're all doing their jobs that directly hurt, oppress and kill mortals. And none of them are going to stop until the mortals force them to face consequences. Violence is the only solution. Every right the mortals have gained back. They've had to fight and kill for people in power or only give out these rights when they have no other choice. When they're afraid of what they'll lose otherwise. Tell me I'm wrong, dm. Tell me you honestly believe we can win this war without bloodshed. And DM can't tell him he's wrong because she knows he's right. And yet it is the last thing she wants and believes in. And she's not willing to resort to that as the only option. Henry's not done revealing the truth that these descended to diem, though. DMs lived a sheltered life and doesn't know about the true horrors that the descended are responsible for throughout history and on a daily basis for all other mortals in all the realms. Like the mortals who used to live in Igneos. At some point after the Blood War, Igneous cleared out all of its mortals. When it closed its borders and banned them, the lucky ones went to Ambrose Igneous northern neighbor. But the Igneos King didn't want the mortals from his realm to pass intel along to anyone else, specifically the Umbros Queen. So the majority of the Igneos mortal citizens, the unlucky ones who could not get to Umbros, they were trapped in the dunes after Igneos guards flushed them out of their towns and they cooked under the sun. Henry goes on to say that the Igneous King called this long and painful death punishment for the Blood War. Then there's the prestigious and highly sought after invitations mortals get to the research institutions in Sophos. Exactly what Teller is hoping for with his bright mind and descended Academy education that very few other mortals get. But guess what? But Henry reveals the truth of what happens to these mortals. After a while they become the research, which absolutely horrifies dm. She has been praying for her brother to get an invitation to Sophos for years. It's his life's dream. And now she's learning the truth and cruelty behind what really happens to these mortals at the research institutions. In heat of the everflame we will learn there is more to this truth that isn't quite so evil, which we'll discuss at length when we get to the that point. We're also going to address it here in today's foreshadowing, but for now DM is realizing just how naive she's been about these descended as Henry reminds her of all of their evilness. And while her shelter bubble had already been popped, now it's really just like shoveling all this really scary information at her because she didn't know. She had no way of knowing. And with all this information that he's sharing, Henry is proving that they are all evil. If you're an adult, you know what it's like to fall down the dreaded is this normal rabbit hole? Like when you have a cold that just won't go away and you immediately hop on Google to see what gruesome ill awaits you? We've all been down the rabbit hole, but it's time to get the help and care we really need with ZocDoc.
- [22:48]
Nicole
ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about booking in network appointments with over 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care and more. You can filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical needs you may have, and are highly rated by verified patients.
- [23:11]
Lexi
Patients Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works best for you and click to instantly book a visit. Plus, appointments made through Zocdoc also happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. Huzzah. You can even score same day appointments.
- [23:25]
Nicole
We use Zocdoc and you should too. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com FF to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com f f Zocdoc.com ff There are few things I love more than my patio in the summertime. It is so nice to just escape and read or write. It's just my favorite favorite place and there's just something about the beautiful outdoor spaces that is so satisfying. It's like your own backyard oasis. Wayfair's got everything you need to level up your outdoor space. They have patio sets and lounge chairs, outdoor bars and hot tubs, fire pits, gazebos and of course string lights. My favorite. It's so easy to have a one stop shop where you can make over your entire space with the resort feel without the resort price tag.
- [24:09]
Lexi
I'm pretty sure all of the furniture in my office is from Wayfair. Both of my bookcases that you all absolutely love. Wayfair. My desk. Wayfair. My very handy dandy filing cabinet. SL extra bookshelf. Wayfair. Yep, I love it all. And Nicole, guess what?
- [24:21]
Nicole
What?
- [24:21]
Lexi
I finally ordered my green velvet chair from Wayfair.
- [24:24]
Nicole
Oh my gosh. It took you forever. I know.
- [24:26]
Lexi
There were just so many options. No matter what you're looking for, Wayfair has everything your home needs in this warm weather season.
- [24:33]
Nicole
Don't wait. Make your outdoor space your dream oasis today with Wayfair and enjoy it all summer long. Head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop a huge outdoor selection that's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every Style, Every Home this is.
- [24:47]
Lexi
An ad by BetterHelp. Something that we think often gets forgotten is men's mental health. Our society tells men that it's not okay to be vulnerable, but actually vulnerability is is strength. You know, we love that on ffg, it's okay to struggle. Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and doing something about it so you can be at your best for yourself and everyone in your life. If you're a man and you're feeling the weight of the world, talk to someone. Anyone. A friend, a loved one, or a therapist.
- [25:09]
Nicole
Therapy has been so beneficial for my husband to the point that he is now going back to school to become a therapist. It has changed his life entirely, making it easier for him to feel like he has the tools to go throughout the day and absolutely kick butt.
- [25:21]
Lexi
With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an App store rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. Also, bonus points. It's so convenient. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time.
- [25:39]
Nicole
As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out out with Better Help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com FFG that's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com FFG race the Rudders.
- [26:00]
Lexi
Race the sails. Race the sails.
- [26:02]
Nicole
Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.
- [26:05]
Lexi
Over.
- [26:05]
Nicole
Roger, wait.
- [26:07]
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- [27:03]
Lexi
Acast powers the world's Best Podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [27:10]
Nicole
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- [27:24]
Lexi
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Nicole
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Lexi
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Lexi
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- [27:52]
Nicole
Acast.com when we interviewed Penn for our intro episode, she mentioned paying attention to the moments in the series where Henry is calling out DM's naivete. She doesn't want mortals to be killed. She doesn't want descended to be killed. But when Henry here is asking, okay, then what is your solution? She has nothing. And he's calling her out that if she doesn't have an answer, then let's keep going with the answer that they have done so far violence, while also mentioning that her view of not wanting to shed blood is a very privileged way of thinking. While he does not blame her for that privilege, the reality is still there. He's saying you don't know how bad it is out there. AKA you don't know how much these descended Troo truly deserve what the Guardians are dishing out. She only knows if the Guardians believe that hurting innocence is going to get them power, then they're no better than the Descended. But again, she doesn't have an alternative. There's another moment that Pen brought up in our intro episode. Many in this world, Henry included, believe that strength and fighting back is only available through violence. But what Pen is challenging us readers to believe here is that what if the strength is holding onto your values even when those surrounding you disagree? Or worse, those surrounding you are giving you the agree with me or we're no longer on the same team Talk. Henry is DM's closest friend. We've talked about that endlessly. We are not done talking about that endlessly. She's followed his lead before, but she's learning that what he believes is strength and victory she does not agree with, and by holding her ground and not conforming herself to be something that she is not, this is a Moment DM is exercising that strength that we will see from her time and time again. Let's do a quick catch up on what Henry's been up to for the last day. He's been with the Guardians all damn day. Trying to convince them not to stab DM in the back. Well, attempting to stop them from outright murdering her in fear that she'll betray them and their mission. Henry told them that she was just trying to do her job as a healer. Again, I do want to point out that Henry is trying to protect DM here, showing that while yes, his allegiance is with the Guardians, he is not casting her out entirely. Again, it's not that black and white.
- [30:01]
Lexi
He simultaneously trying to convince the Guardians she's on their side. And to DM that you are aligned with the Guardians. Right, like that was our whole thing growing up for the last few decades.
- [30:12]
Nicole
But let's just take a moment, as we do here on Fantasy Fangirls and put ourselves in the Guardians pov. After they had their wildly successful mission that we talked about last episode, one of their own wants to run in and help the very people they are trying to bring down. She saw them on the road. She knows who exactly is behind the attack. Attack then. And this is if they know this part. She spent the night at the palace in the heart of enemy territory. She could have easily blabbed or made an ally in the palace who she would then talk to. And then they could tell the information she shared. She's a liability to their cause and their secrecy. Now, little do they know that Luther already knows who they are and what they're doing. But the rebels want assurance that she is not going to reveal anything about the Guardians. And from their point of view, I get it. But while DM assures Henry that she's not gonna say anything, she'll consider everything forgotten. She literally just wants nothing to do with these fuckers anymore. Henry says that her word is not enough.
- [31:08]
Lexi
DM is definitely an I can fix it person. She thinks she can get herself out of any situation. And I feel like it used to come from, yeah, a bit of an ego, but now it's a desperation as she tries to fix her stumbles now that she doesn't have her footing in her life or her identity anymore. When she's like, don't worry, like I just won't do it again. And Moira's like, are you kidding me? Like you're not going back there. She's like, no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. She's like, no, it is not. And this is a very similar thing here with Henry. Of course the stakes are different and very much higher with the Guardians. But he's like, that's not gonna cut it. Like, that's not how this works. Like we are adults. Like, this is some really big shit here.
- [31:44]
Nicole
Well, and I agree with what DM's implication around her next question is what would make them feel assured. But Henry doesn't answer, which is ominous. Instead he tells her to lie low and to not go into limits. No city or near the palace or anything like that. Which lol. That's not gonna happen. But I want to see if I'm reading between the lines correctly. Here is Henry saying that she has to stay away from the descended or luminous city because he doesn't want her to be at a house call for the descended. And then like a, oops, oh no, that house happened to be burned down. What a coincidence. Because that's what I'm gathering from this.
- [32:21]
Lexi
I never thought about that. I always took it as Henry telling DM to lay low so the Guardians don't get suspicious. This, that she's going to say anything to the descended that she doesn't let on more than she already has, that she's on their side. Because he's essentially saying you can't go even near them because the Guardians are already really nervous about your loyalties here. I don't know if the Guardians would actually straight up murder her. I kind of don't think so. I think that it was definitely discussed and that is something that Henry is not willing to outwardly share with her. But he's also heavily hinting at, like, this is really serious here.
- [32:57]
Nicole
I think they would. I 100% think they would. Like. So this actually brings me to a question, and that is, what do you think would have happened if DM hadn't become queen? She was immortal city with the Guardians breathing down her neck.
- [33:10]
Lexi
I think that the Guardians would have had a very close eye on her. Like she would have been going, let's say that she still worked as a healer. She would have been going to see her patients and there would be like a Guardian following her or something like that. I could also see Vance making her have to prove her loyalty to the Guardians. So all of those things that she's already been having to do would just be like, like nothing compared to this new task that he would have to set for her to really show. Like you were either with us or against us. I could going back to your whole Thing about like, you know, murder and things like that. Like, if they even get a hint that nope, we don't trust her or anything like that. Like she. Which she's already very much close to, that she might have an accident.
- [33:46]
Nicole
That's what I think is going to happen. Would have happened.
- [33:49]
Lexi
And Henry wouldn't have been able to stop it because it's kind of like, yeah, you did this to yourself. Like that is his conversation that he's telling her here is like, I'm trying to help you, but you gotta work with me.
- [33:59]
Nicole
Yeah, I definitely think they would have done something where it's like, oops, like, how. What a coincidence. How interesting. I think they would have done that regardless. Because again, I'm just putting myself in Vance's advance hat here he is so protective over the cause, specifically the cause that he is wanting to create. And if they have this kind of level of liability here, I don't think they'd have any problem. I think there's even a line later on in Heat where DM says to Henry where she's like, he would have no problem letting you die for the cause.
- [34:31]
Lexi
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [34:32]
Nicole
So I. I think he wouldn't have had any problem taking her out. But luckily that doesn't happen this dark. Let's change the subject.
- [34:40]
Lexi
The silence that follows this argument reflects the impasse that DM and Henry are at. Their simple and pure love is no more. And the more DM wants to go back to that effortless joy, the more it seems to float away way in the midst of so much uncertainty and change. DM is holding on to the concept of Henry and their familiar ease. But that's the key word. The concept of Henry. Their argument just proved they are both not willing to do the same things for their shared goals. But that doesn't keep DM from freaking out as she feels like she's in freefall. She just quit being a healer and now she's losing Henry too. DM doesn't know who she is beyond that. And when DM loses her sense of gravity, she clings to the familiar, even when she just acknowledged it's slipping away. But she can't bear that reality. We are going to see this so much in glow. So she tries harder to grab onto what she wants to A life with Henry. Away from this. What if they leave everything here and start somewhere fresh? Far away like Umbros or even away from Omarion. Away from these guardians and the fact that they think Diem is an enemy now? Away from the Lunos descendants, oppression away from Prince Luthor. And those feelings he stirs deep within dm.
- [35:46]
Nicole
I can't help but think of what the Madam said to DM when she went to Paradise Row. When she went was telling her, don't live a mediocre life for a mediocre man and go, go explore. Go get off this goddamn continent. And here is diem saying, let's go. Like, let's go explore. But remember, the Madam also said that if he's truly the one, he will come along for the ride. Guess what? Henry picks. It's not that, because Henry sees this as running away. And while. While he says he can't because his father and his work is here, we can infer a huge unspoken reason is also because the Guardians are here too. We question the Guardians and their actions, but Henry has felt more passion, more drive, more belonging since being part of this rebellion. They're a family to him, and he believes so wholly in their vision and their mission. And he believes that he can help in this upcoming war. So he turns the question instead onto dm. You really want to leave Teller alone?
- [36:46]
Lexi
I was gonna ask you, do you think DM could really leave Teller?
- [36:51]
Nicole
No, Absolutely not.
- [36:54]
Lexi
I think in the heat of the moment right now, she could. But within, at most a day, she would regret leaving her family for Henry because they're incompatible. Problems would still be there. She would be running away from her problems, but bringing one of those major problems with her. And she really doesn't want Henry to be one of those problems. She wants him to be the solution. Even so, it's like she knows better, but she just can't bring herself to acknowledge that because that's losing Henry, too.
- [37:23]
Nicole
Which DM replies to this. You really want to leave Teller alone with. Well, he won't be alone. He'll have Father. Yeah, Diem about that, because it turns out there's a little bit more information that Henry left out. Andre is being called back to the army to be a leader against the Miros Guardians. Ooh.
- [37:42]
Lexi
We will find out in Glow that rebels have been attacking almost half the ports in Miros, leading the realm to consider closing its borders to mortals.
- [37:50]
Nicole
And Andre already sent back his acceptance one whole week ago. Oh, the irony that Andre will be fighting against the Guardians that DM just helped to arm and arm very, very, very well. And he'll also be fighting in a war that has been kicked off because of bombing. Like the bombings last night. It wasn't kicked off because of last night, but they're starting to pop up more and more. But the fact that she has to hear this from Henry is a tough look for Andre. But also the fact that Henry tells her in this way is a tough look for Henry. He's telling her in a way that I'm sure he believes is warning her. But the truth of the matter is he's just too angry at those who are associated with the descended, Andre included. And seeing these situations as black and white, that anger rears its ugly head through him, telling DM things like, quote, he's a descended puppet. And quote, he chose a descendant over you and Teller, your mother and all his own people. Woof. Henry, I know you're mad, but bro, come on. She lost her mom. Don't talk to her this way.
- [38:56]
Lexi
This news does not sit well with dm. In fact, she refuses to believe it. She is so tired of secrets and feeling like she's the last person to find out. Important life changing information. Her father can't possibly leave her and her brother to go fight in a war against the rebels, against people like Henry. All she has to cling to is that Henry is wrong. DM doesn't feel like she has many constants left in her life, but her father and brother are the two at the top of her list. And now, not only is she being told her father is leaving and has been lying by omission about this, but that he's a descended puppet who's going to be killing mortals like Henry and Diem. So her first reaction is to simply not believe it, while her second reaction is to hope beyond hope that there is miscommunication here. An explanation for this unfathomable truth that Henry is telling her. As DM heads home, all she can dwell on is how everything is wrong now and in the span of a day, her life has been turned on its head. Yes, it felt like it was when her mother left, but now her career is over and she has no money or other career prospects. The Guardians see her as an enemy and knowing what they're capable of, that's terrifying. Teller's hopeful future of going to Sophos is gone and he doesn't even know it. Her father is about to march off to war, her mother is still missing, and she's failed in learning more about her disappearance even when she had the possible opportunity. Speaking of that possible opportunity, Luther kissed her and it made her feel things. DM still feels a calling to fight and take down the descendant. Quote, a blood debt I was born to repay. Okay, that feels like major foreshadowing. It also reminds me of what the Queen of Umpros said to DM back in Chapter one about life for life. Old debt requires or eternal be his yoke. Blood debt. Yes, we know that her blood is tied to a spell and I am convinced it is the Kindred's curse. Think about why Ophiuchai tried to stab his newborn daughter so her blood could fall on the Heartstone and free him. But ah, there's gotta be more to this magic within her blood and how it is connected to the Kindred. Through all of this uncertainty, DM does feel inclined to do one thing. She's not going to give up on her mission of seeking out justice between the Descended and mortal immortals. But she is going to do it on her own terms and not in line with the violent tactics the Guardians are executing.
- [41:06]
Nicole
Walking through the house, DM can already tell dad is mad. He's seated at the table with his hands clasped in a hard line between his brows. It's been roughly 24 hours since his daughter ran out of the house running into Lumno City after bombs went off and in that time he went to Lumnose City to try and find her, but was turned away when no mortals were being let through. Remember, the only reason Dien did get let through is because she was like Luther, you prick. My girl. Then he went to the Healer center thinking that she would be waiting to be called for, but she wasn't there either. Then he came home thinking she'd returned, but again, no DM and a very different day flashed into his memory. The day when Arlie disappeared. My heart really pours out to Andra here. Yes, he's mad and we will get to all of that in a moment. But under the anger is a father who was terrified because Jacob's bombs were going off and he couldn't find his daughter. Only months after losing his wife, losing quote unquote. But that worry and fear is buried under lots of anger because as Andre will say, he received a letter from one Mr. Prince Luther Courbois himself, saying how his daughter was recovering in his personal care. Multiple things here. Number one, Andre is familiar with the Royals, having worked with King Arthur on matters within Mortal City. He also also absolutely knows Luther and his stoic reputation. Number two, she went to the Lumnos Palace, a place she is absolutely not supposed to be due to Arlie's rules around the descendant. Number three, anytime he came into the palace, he was not allowed any further than a sitting room and most definitely not as an overnight guest. And number four, put yourself in his shoes. He is hearing about his 20 year old daughter spending the night at a palace under a handsome guard's personal care. Arleigh herself was even like, don't you fucking go near my daughter. And Luther was like, I promise I won't have sex with her. I swear. I know if our dad got this, this kind of note, he would have been furious for all the same reasons Andre is thinking.
- [43:12]
Lexi
I quake even just thinking about that laugh.
- [43:16]
Nicole
You and I are both in our 30s and I still was like static, sorry, dad, we are married women. But that's not all the letter said. Luther goes on to commend Andre about his daughter, who is, quote, so courageous and selfless that she ran into a burning building to save the lives of two guards mere seconds before its collapse. Oh, dear. So not only did she go against Aries rules and go into the land of the descended, but she also risked her own life. And somehow she was the only one who was able to go into this burning building when she was surrounded by guards again. This anger is from a place of absolute terror that his daughter is risking her life in such a way. My heart does kind of go out to Luther here a little bit though, because I think in his mind he's trying to be nice to Andre. He has a crush on his daughter after all. So he's commending her to him, saying how she's so courageous, she's so selfless. We will see how far Luther does go in glow to get Andre to warm up to him. He'll insist that Andre calls him Luther, not Prince Luther, and just wants.
- [44:25]
Lexi
I love that.
- [44:27]
Nicole
I just, I imagine him writing this and just like wanting Andre to like him.
- [44:31]
Lexi
I think that this reflects how different family dynamics are between the mortals and descended. This commending is a sign of worthiness of among the descended. I know that's not what Luther is consciously thinking of, but the concept of worthiness and strength and power is so important for all of descended. And he's just telling this really scared dad who's just wants his daughter to be safe. And he's like, by the way, she was really great in the burning building. And Audrey's like, ah.
- [45:01]
Nicole
And then she slept over in my bed. Oh, God. But then Luther's letter goes on telling Andre about the day DM saved Lily's life and how she has since been the palace healer. Oh, dear. I mean, livid doesn't even come close to the appropriate word here.
- [45:22]
Lexi
My inner daughter in trouble is like, okay, but that's.
- [45:27]
Nicole
You do have a lot of experience.
- [45:29]
Lexi
I have a lot of experience in this area. That's not technically right because DM has only been to the palace a handful of times and never without Moira. So she wasn't really the palace healer. At one point, she was the palace healer in training. I realize Luther probably does not have all of this information, though he did notice DM wasn't coming to the palace recently. So if I was dm, I would have been like, what the fuck? That's not even true. I see this as Luther wanting to make DM look good again, like I was just saying a little bit ago. And it unfortunately and very accidentally backfires. It's like his subconscious is bolstering up DMs power and status because, yeah, it is really important. Descended culture, her being the palace healer has its own prestige to it as well.
- [46:14]
Nicole
Andre's wife was the palace healer. Exactly. Obviously holds her in very high regard. Exactly.
- [46:18]
Lexi
Luther thinks he's helping, and it's like, oh, no.
- [46:21]
Nicole
Oh, no. Okay, I want to try and exercise. I want dad to read this chapter, and I want to see what his reaction is.
- [46:30]
Lexi
But Andre is not the only one with a right to be mad here. The argument is escalating. Now Teller is involved because it's out that his crush Lily is the princess Lillian. Andre is going on about how the descendant don't care about debts. Tensions are rising. Things are not looking good. And also, by the way, Andre is going back to the army at the end of the month because war has officially been declared. Oh, dear. While Henry accuses Andre of being a descended puppet who does whatever they say. It's so interesting to get Andre's POV as he gets upset with Diem about Luther helping her. They don't care about debts to mortals. They believe they're entitled to our service as a matter of right. These are not words spoken from a puppet who blindly does their bidding. I find Andre especially so fascinating because he is not in the Omarion army, because he believes the descendants are good or fair there. He's not drinking that Kool Aid, but he's a realist who believes in peace above all else. He knows the horrors of war, and he has no desire to encourage fighting back against the descended. Not because he sides with the descended, but because he knows how powerful and strong they are and how detrimental to the mortals these rebel attacks and war will have. The Guardians are a relatively small subgroup of mortals, but all of the mortals are going to pay. Yet from Henry's perspective, they already are. And that's where a bit of Andre's privilege shows. He didn't become the highest ranking Mortal army commander and an unofficial advisor to King Ulther without playing nice with the descendant in charge. In this world that feels so divided between black and white, it's easy to see how this comes off as siding with the descended, as giving up on one's own kind. But Andre sees it differently because he is looking out for their kind so that the harsher restrictions and punishments don't fall down on all mortals because of this rebel subgroup. Like Diem, Andre fights for peace. Unlike Diem, Andre fights for peace that is already in place.
- [48:22]
Nicole
Pretty sure my heart cracked into 10,000 teeny tiny pieces when Teller entered the living room and yells and begs for Andre not to go. At the end of the day, this family is so close and while not completely honest about everything, they still love each other unconditionally. And it feels like another irreversible crack is about to wedge itself in the heart of the Bellator family. Family. The truth is, this is an acceptance he feels like he had to turn in. As he will say quote these orders are not the kind that can be declined. After all, he can't say he has kids at home to take care of since they are both at adult age for mortals. But I do think subconsciously there is a little part of him who I won't say wants to go. No, I will say I do say wants to go. He believes in stopping the Guardians, who in his eyes are bringing nothing but bombings, thousands of death and stricter rules for the mortals as punishment, like Lexi was saying. And here he is just trying to keep the freaking peace. Quote if stopping a handful of rebels means preventing the destruction of our people entirely, then I'll happily do it. And as DM notes, this is almost note for note what Henry said. Just replace rebels with Descended and you've got the Guardians excuse for wreaking havoc.
- [49:33]
Lexi
Both sides are so steadfast in their beliefs that this is for the greater good. I know I keep coming back to that reference, especially in this deep dive, but it really is so fitting and what this entails, who's right or who's wrong is entirely dependent on which side you're standing on. And that is such an important theme that Pen really wanted to illustrate in this story.
- [49:53]
Nicole
I also wonder if there's a little part of Andre that wants to go because Arlie is off doing her mission. She's off doing that, and maybe he feels like he's out of touch. Touch with his passion or purpose from his old days.
- [50:05]
Lexi
I definitely see that. Especially with his children growing up too. It's kind of like he's maybe a little bit lonely. And I don't want to say like, you know, wants to go back to the glory days, but wants to have that value. Like he knows that he is valuable. Like he was a very high ranking officer and he knows that his expertise and strategy and leadership is needed and he's not as needed at home. Yeah.
- [50:28]
Nicole
So while he's away, Teller will stay in school and Diem will take care of her little brother. It may require some more work hours at the Healer center to make ends meet, but. Oh yeah, dad, about that. The plan that Andre had that would mean his family would be okay without him is quickly falling apart. With DM having left the Healer center and this conversation already breaching on the edge of going back to anger. Falls right back into fight. With the voice inside DM's head nodding in agreement. Fight. Fight. Fight. WWE style. Standing her ground in her choice to quit the Healer Center, Andre comes back with telling her then, okay, you'll marry Henry and his family will provide for you. And tell her, l, I love you Andre. But that's an L. That's an L. Putting ourselves in this mortal society, this is not out of the ordinary. But it is, is absolutely out of the ordinary for this family. Andre is not malicious. He is a father who is worried for his family. But DM's ability to make her own choices in her own life, it's important to her, despite the massive turn it's about to take.
- [51:35]
Lexi
We can't forget about the family dinner that very recently happened. It was only the day before where he wanted to listen to her hesitations about marrying Henry and he supported her and her decision decisions no matter what she chose. This really goes to show how unlike him this demand is and that it's coming from a place of fear and worry and him spiraling himself.
- [51:56]
Nicole
At the end of the day, DM just quit the Healer center because she felt like it wasn't her path or her choice. Whether she marries or does not marry Henry is another choice she will fight for. Not only in this book, but it will also be a running theme, especially in glow. Remember when Taryn is going to be sitting with Diem after they train and he's going to be saying like don't marry the mortal, be with Luke Luther and DM is like fuck you. I get to make my own choices.
- [52:21]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [52:22]
Nicole
Understandably. Already so angry and ready to fight. DM screams that it is her choice to marry Henry and it will not be Andre's. After all, Auralie would never have forced her into marriage.
- [52:34]
Lexi
And it's so hard too, because it's like we would never imagine Andre to either. And yet in this moment, under these circumstances, that's not the side of him that we're seeing.
- [52:44]
Nicole
Well, it also just I love these moments in books where parents are imperfect because when we're little it feels like for the most part, they can be these perfect beings. But part of growing up is realizing how your parents aren't perfect. I love you mom and dad, but you're not perfect. And like, just like we aren't. And it really goes to show that this is a moment of Andre not being that perfect father and that perfect Bellator.
- [53:11]
Lexi
Exactly.
- [53:11]
Nicole
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- [57:58]
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- [58:53]
Lexi
All this time, the voice inside DM is shrieking to be unleashed. Fight. Her emotions are on edge. She is fighting for her own choices and for herself. Whenever that happens, her godhood rallies. Fight this Time feels scarily different though, and in the moment, DM isn't able to control herself separate from the voice like she has been able to do before. She's a passenger to her own rage as it devours her and strikes at those causing her distress. So she fights back with her words as her weapons. You are not my fault, Father. We don't have to explain how much these words ring in the air. They have never been uttered in this household before. There's never been any reason for them to be said. Andre has wholeheartedly loved DM as his own and she has embraced him as her father all her life. In fact, almost everyone else believes he is her biological father. I can't help but wonder if her godhood egged on this particularly hurtful phrase, especially as it wants to fight when he responds with I am the closest thing to one that you will ever have have. It's like her real paternal bloodline, which is part of her godhood, is angry at Andre.
- [59:57]
Nicole
Oh, I love that.
- [59:59]
Lexi
But these are words you can't take back. Like when DM was in the end with Henry and confronted him about lying to her, she wanted to physically and emotionally hurt him beyond healing. And here she's feeling the exact same thing. More intense if anything. So she channels her own rage into words that just slice as good as any other weapon, striking her father right where it will paint him the the most. Because his daughter is his everything, even if they're not blood related.
- [60:23]
Nicole
Let's talk about that twisting knife. Because she asks Andre why he stopped looking for aurally, why he's acting like she'll walk through the door any minute, why he has not grieved her loss. These are thoughts that have been circling around DM's mind for months. But as we'll learn in Glow, Andre does know more than he's letting on to his children. He stopped looking for her because he knew she was going to be going on a trip, but he had every faith in her that she would be coming back. Hence why he hasn't been grieving her life loss. He does believe that she'll walk through the door any minute because he knew she'd be gone for a long time. But that long time could be up any moment. But DM has no idea where her mother is, if she's alive, if she's dead, if anything. And with Andre having been acting like Arlee's only been on this long trip, it sets off that I feel like I'm the last to know anything. Trigger that DM's been feeling a lot lately. So that fight voice urges her to go one, one step forward, wanting to crush his body and spirit with a wound he could never recover from. Woof. Just like she had with Henry back in the inn in Fortos. But then she was in semi control, at least enough to tell him to leave. Not here. And oh boy. DM screams about how perhaps Andre is the reason Auralie is truly gone. Perhaps he didn't care for Aurelie at all.
- [61:40]
Lexi
And this dad can only be accused of so many hurtful things before he's not. Snaps turning the table over and roaring at DM to get out of his house. It is so hard to see this gigantic family fight, especially after last episode's wholesome family dinner. But even that conversation waded into tense waters when DM pressed her father about their mother's whereabouts. At this point, she has zero fucks left to give. Combined with her godhood, DM purposefully delivered words to crush her father's spirit, to strike a wound so vicious he might never recover. And oof. She succeeds. Nobody's a winner here. Nobody. Everybody gets a bit of an L here. Everybody. I understand everybody's perspective and everybody get.
- [62:19]
Nicole
An L. Except for Teller.
- [62:20]
Lexi
Teller is the only one who. Oh my God. I don't think we will ever give Teller an L. When will be the day that we give him an L? I won't want to even think about it.
- [62:28]
Nicole
I. I maybe in heat, but I could it maybe a lowercase L, but.
- [62:34]
Lexi
I don't even know then I don't think so.
- [62:36]
Nicole
There's this moment where DM says she. She says like, perhaps you're the reason AR is not coming back and you're the reason she's gone. And Teller just like looks at DM and says dm like he. He says her name. Just an absolute horror. And it just like.
- [62:51]
Lexi
And as they're yelling at each other like he's like stop. Stop. Oh my gosh. I know.
- [62:56]
Nicole
He's so sweet. I love him so much.
- [62:59]
Lexi
It's. This is just all so tough because we know how great of a father Andre is as like we've been saying, we know how much he cares for his family and that he really doesn't know where their mother is. Is. And I bet he blows up like this because he is so anxious about where his beloved wife is. He is holding on to hope that she's on the long mission she preemptively warned him about. But I do wonder if in the back of his mind he is freaking out because she had said that she would give him a heads up before her departure, and she didn't. And here is both his worst fear and the biggest misconception about him thrown in his face by one of the two people he loves most in this world, who he probably feels like he's failed. Between their mother. Mother's disappearance and the army calling him.
- [63:36]
Nicole
Back, this just breaks my heart even more. I know I keep saying that because it's true that the next time Andre and DM will see each other will be just a few days from now at King Ulther's funeral. And he will be crying as she falls to her knees in front of the crowd, trying to use her magic to light the pyre. I wonder, because we don't know if he knew she was Queen, so I wonder if he was just thinking she was with Henry or something. But can you imagine? Imagine him sitting in the audience and then the Queen of Lumnos just waltzes up and he's like, holy. That's my daughter. Like, oh, Andre.
- [64:09]
Lexi
As Nicole and I were preparing for today's episode, we really wanted to reach out to Pen and get a little bit more insight into Arlie and Andre's dynamic, especially with her leaving. Why didn't she tell him when she had warned him that she would all of those little things. And also, just like her role as a spy and him knowing that he doesn't always need to know her. So secrets. So let's hear what Pen has to say.
- [64:28]
Pen (Author)
Why didn't Arleigh tell Andre about the island? Well, number one, I think she believed she was keeping him safe. You know, this is kind of how Arie operates, right? She believes that if she keeps secrets from people and doesn't tell them the truth, that they're safer, better off that way, especially when it comes to the Guardians, because anything to do with the Guardians is a death sentence. So for Auralie, keeping Andre in the dark is the way to keep him the safe as she can. And that's also just kind of how their relationship operated. She had secrets from her time in the Army. She had secrets about the Guardians, and Andre knew that and he chose to love her anyway. We see him mention that at the end of Spark, that he didn't need to know all of her to love all of her. He accepted that there were things she wouldn't tell him, and that's just how they were together. And they loved each other.
- [65:18]
Nicole
Regardless.
- [65:19]
Pen (Author)
Regardless. Number two, I think. I think Arlie would have told Andre she was at least going somewhere. But in my head canon, she didn't have a chance. I sort of imagine that Arlie went to see the king and realized he was closer to death than she thought. She thought. Now is the chance to act. She confronts Luther in the alleyway. She says, take me to the island. This is the time. Time you're going on. Forging day. You can pick me up when you go for your coronation, which should only be, you know, in a few weeks, maybe just a few more days. And he says, okay, but we have to go right now, right this second. So she has no time to go tell her family to prepare anything. Of course, Vance knows, because they've been talking about what they might do if she's able to get to the island. But otherwise, she really, really doesn't have a chance to warn anyone. So I think in a perfect world, she definitely would have told her family that she was traveling so that they wouldn't worry. But she just didn't get the chance. Because Luther said, if we're gonna do this, we're doing this right now. And she knew she wouldn't have another chance if she didn't act on it.
- [66:31]
Lexi
Despite putting distance between herself and her father, DM's anger only grows and is mutating into something completely unrelated, recognizable. The only thing she knows to do is keep running away, both in fear of what she's capable of doing to her loved ones and in terror of what's happening to her with this voice and her struggle to breathe and everything that is physically happening.
- [66:51]
Nicole
As DM crashes to her knees on the shore of the sea, DM starts to burn up, everything in her feeling like it's made of fire. As a pressure in her head starts to pound and a voice says, free me, daughter of the Forgotten. That while we never get this confirmed, I'm assuming this is Lumnos talking to her.
- [67:11]
Lexi
Oh, see, I wondered if it was the Tenth Kindred somehow. Especially saying, I am your birthright and your destiny. Or maybe not the Tenth Kindred literally, but her godhood that comes from the Tenth Kindred and establishes her as the daughter of the Forgotten. Because I feel like it makes the most sense for this voice to be Lumnos. But there's no description about the voice being feminine like we've gotten with Lumnose talking earlier.
- [67:35]
Nicole
So I don't know, because there's also that moment in Fortos when she's about to get the Fortoes crown and it says, claim me, daughter of the forgotten. And it sounds like Fortoes, at least from what I was reading, but I could be wrong. Do you want to ask Pen?
- [67:48]
Lexi
Let's ask Pen.
- [67:49]
Nicole
Pen, phone. A Pen.
- [67:51]
Pen (Author)
Are the voices that DM hears urging her to claim me. The voices of Lumna and Fortas. So kind of, but not really. I think those voices are more of these magical forces that are either inside of her as a result of her being descended, or voices that are bestowed on her as part of receiving the crown. The voices, it's really more of like a. A feeling and an urge. Like this magic wants her to claim it. It wants her to. To use it and to embrace it. And she's, of course, resisting, so it's really urging her to stop fighting who she is and to. To claim her power. You know, if. If those forces showed up in another creature, maybe they would manifest in different ways. But. But it's speaking to DM in the language that she knows, which is through these. These thoughts in her mind. So it's really more of a. A, A power that's linked to her godhood and to the crowns that is manifesting in the voices, as opposed to a specific sentient being who is talking directly to her.
- [69:13]
Lexi
All right, that makes absolute sense. And that's good for us to know moving forward. I love it. Thank you, Pen.
- [69:18]
Nicole
I'm really curious as to why she's burning up. This happens each time she's conscious and gets a crown, I. E. Fortoes, Lumnos and Umbros. She was knocked out from the explosion and the Guardians when the Monteos king died. Although she did feel, quote, a growing fire in my chest. So I'm assuming that's her unconscious way of feeling the super, super hot.
- [69:38]
Lexi
I guess I always assumed that the burning up was just part of the transfer of the crown. There's a lot of new magic downloading into you all at once, once, and you know it makes you overheat.
- [69:48]
Nicole
But with the heat burning through her and the voice in her head, DM is screaming, unable to take the pain of it. So she lifts her hands to the sky itself and a great beam of light shoots from them. God is so cool. I wonder if a large part as to why the crown passing is so painful for her, at least on this round, is because she has such a huge buildup of power that she hasn't used. We will know from Glow that when you take, you don't expel your power. It can build up and make you really emotional and make you really quick to anger. Which would explain why dm, when she shoots her hands up into the air, and expels a whole lot of magic. The voices hush and the burning goes away. Ah, that's so much better.
- [70:28]
Lexi
All right.
- [70:29]
Nicole
Everything's back to normal, right? Right.
- [70:32]
Lexi
No. In fact, it will never be back to normal again. After she surrenders to the voice and all of her senses narrowed in on the warmth that has gathered atop her head, everything in existence seems to go still. Teller, who has been present and after he chased after his sister and has seen all this happen, he looks at his older sister with a horrified stare and whispers, dee, you're wearing the crown. You've been selected. You are the new Queen of Lumnos. Chills every time I read this. Every time I say it out loud. Chills, chills, chills. So that's why she's been feeling a headache coming on all day and pressure around the top of her head. That's why she just felt the warmth atop her head. Because she has officially inherited the crown of Lumnos.
- [71:14]
Nicole
This crown of Lumnos is made of wispy black ringlets of thorny vines interlaced with twinkling stars. Oh, that's beautiful. It's not tangible. The crown is literally not able to be touched. I fucking love this shit. But instead, it's made of that light and shadow itself.
- [71:32]
Lexi
Ah. I remember reading this ending for the first time and being surprised, but not shocked. You know what I mean? We've known there is more to diem and that she must be half mortal, half descended. But at least for me, I assumed this was the big twist, that she is the new Lumnose crown. I don't ever remember imagining that she might have the power of all the realms and will become the crown of every realm. Because she doesn't belong to just Lumnos or one of the other realms. She is the daughter of the forgotten, a child of the tenth Kindred, Omnos.
- [72:03]
Nicole
I remember I didn't start thinking, oh, my God, she has the power of all Kindred, until I think it's Heat of the Everflame when she's in Igneos. Like, that's when I started realizing it. And I remember I was such a passenger Princess the first time I read this book. I did not suspect anything weird about DM until she got the crown. And then I was like, oh, that's cool. So, like you say you were not surprised, but, like, it is surprising. I was surprised and it was surprising.
- [72:30]
Lexi
See, it was the fact that she has other magic, that she is different even from the descended, that I definitely did not expect.
- [72:37]
Nicole
Oh, me neither. Yeah.
- [72:38]
Lexi
In this moment, we can't even imagine what's to come for DM and the Crowns, but we can begin to comprehend just how out of her element she's about to be. This series is about someone who becomes the most unlikely ruler. And I love how this whole first book has been setting up for who DM is as a mortal before her life drastically changes. Pin has said that the idea of this whole series is founded in asking her that herself. What would happen when the most unlikely person becomes queen? It's masterful how we get this cliffhanger of her brother Teller, exclaiming that DM has been selected as the new crown of Lumnos. It automatically means she's the most powerful descendant in this realm. It means that she is now the Guardians very real enemy, which includes Henry. It is the truth that DM's been hiding from all book, all her life now staring her in the face. Which by the way, is so fitting that it's Teller who is with her at this pivotal moment. Since he goes to the Descended Academy, he knows far more about Descended than dm. And he's here to be with her when it's revealed she truly is descended.
- [73:36]
Nicole
Little asterisk next to that. Descended. But let's pause for a moment and rewind like we're about to return a movie to Blockbuster and go back to the night the king of Limnos died, aka 30 minutes ago. But across town, because we're so lucky that we get this entire scene from Luther Courbois point of view. I missed you, my bill. Right after making out with dm, Luther heads back to the palace and receives word that the king is in his final moments.
- [74:04]
Lexi
My heart hurt to read that the guards informed the rest of the family that this was the end for Ulther. Twice, they told them. Twice. And no one else is here. Despite being the King of Lumnos, the head of House Corbois, and the most powerful man in the realm, no one but Luther and Taryn are here right now to pay their final rest respects. After Ulther's mate was killed soon after he became the crown, Ulther became a shell of a man too trapped in the past and too weak, too easily controllable. It goes back to when DM was alone with him and she cared for him when it was only the two of them because it seemed like the right thing to do.
- [74:36]
Nicole
And I think it also goes back to the descended caring for strength. And yes, strength of magic absolutely is first, but strength of will, strength of control, strength of wanting power is also something that they value very highly. And of the three brothers, Arthur is not someone who has those qualities after his mate died. So I think a lot of them lost respect for the king when that I agree.
- [75:00]
Lexi
And they took advantage of him and that's what he's been. He's just been somebody that they can take advantage of.
- [75:06]
Nicole
So with his cousin Taryn by his side making fun of Luther for having a sleepover the night prior. I love that they're over their uncle's body and he's like so you get some last night? Nice. Cuz like that's great. The two men see Arthur with foamy red liquid trickling from his lips. And Taryn runs to get their siblings as well as the king's brothers. But Luther stays with Ulther. I'm not gonna lie, it feels so fitting that it's just Luther and Alther together in his final moments. Like that is so, so, so right for their characters and. And that Luther became Ulther's words one sense of passion and drive after his mate died. But then something very similar to what we covered last episode with DM happens. Ulther's eyes flash open and find Luther's immediately. And the king rasps out for Luther to find the girl with gray eyes. I know this is not his reasoning, but it makes me chuckle thinking of Ulther being like wait, I wasn't done talking to her yet. I was interrupted. I my windows. I need to finish talking to her. But Ulther will go on to say quote the girl. She brings death, war and end for everything. You must use the sword. He's pointing at the jewel sword that Luther is holding. But I have a feeling he's not referring to that exact sword. Instead he's. Yeah, instead I think he's referring to the sword that DM is using in her vision. Unless I have a crack theory, we've pointed out moments where DM's death is very heavily foreshadowed. What if there's a moment where Luther has to use a sword on dm? Or at least stab her in some way? I could never see Luther doing that unless there was a real damn good reason for the entire world or you know, all that kind of stuff. And even then I think we'd have a Romeo and Juliet situation on our hands.
- [76:55]
Lexi
Yeah, all I could think is like Luther would fall on his sword. But before ever doing that to dm, like, even if it meant the end of the world.
- [77:02]
Nicole
Yes. But I could see there be a moment where like, like again, we foreshadowed how much this DM's death and like, and even in the prophecies and stuff like that, there's this foreshadowing of there has to be a price to pay. There has to be a price to pay. And this gift that needs to happen also. What if the gift is the passing of the crown? With DM having to lose the crown, I do not think she will stay dead. I'm staying true to that. I do not see a situation where we're gonna have that.
- [77:27]
Lexi
So, see, I figured the reference to using the sword is for Ophiuchai, and the sword must be used on him. Like, could that be the gift Lumnos is referring to? The Kindred's gift. Our gift, as she said, is the blade that Diem will have. And it's Luther who will have to kill her father. I could see the series ending with DM losing her magic from the bonded bargain, but being okay with it because it is Luther who ends up killing him and it's not her. All of this really does seem ominous for darling dm, huh? It's also very interesting because the Kindred seem to have faith in dm, but the king does not. Maybe he's seeing the future she's working toward, and it's bringing the mortals up, which he's like, no. Again, King Arthur was not super, super, super against the mortals like some of the other houses are. If that was the case, then he would have made all the mortals leave a while back. He definitely did pass some very, very bad laws, and most of it was in a compromise demise. But still, he is a descended crown, and according to Luther, he's been a bit of a pushover, and he did allow all those evils to happen. So I think that Lumnos and maybe Ulther are not seeing eye to eye here in the same body.
- [78:37]
Nicole
I never thought of it that way. I kind of assumed he was. He was the puppet of Lumnos in that way. But, yeah, I think you're right.
- [78:43]
Lexi
I will say, though, Ulther is insistent that Luther has to find this girl with the gray eyes. And maybe it's not to cause her harm, but to help her. And Luther needs to use the sword for something else.
- [78:55]
Nicole
I love how in the middle of the scene, Sarai lets out a piercing shriek. That this shriek will not only be heard by Luther, but also Diem in her chapter that we just covered when she gets the crown, but also aurally from Koreel. Sarai's got some pipes on her.
- [79:11]
Lexi
My girl.
- [79:12]
Nicole
I love, love, love when chapters are all happening at the same time. And these, there's these very clear timestamps for us as readers.
- [79:20]
Lexi
Yes, I do appreciate that when that happens. And they are very, very clear. And maybe don't poke holes in our biggest theory, but that's not about this series anyway. Earlier in this bonus chapter, Taryn asked Luther how he felt being almost king. It cannot be underestimated that everyone thought Luther was the only candidate to be the next crown. Yet Luther gave Taryn a standard answer. The author prepared him as best he could could. That was not a Yes, I am ready to become king, or even an acknowledgement that he will become the king. He is the only person who actually doesn't believe that he will be. And then as he looks at himself in Sarai's reflection, Luther sees that he does not have the crown on his head after it's disappeared off of Ulther and he's passed away. Which means he's not the new king of Lumnos. Quote, all the planning and plotting for me to become king had been a laughable waste. Luther's not upset that he doesn't have the crown. He's a man on a mission to find the woman who was was just crowned queen of Lumnos. Because while he has no crown over his head, he can feel his magic humming and tugging his attention east toward the pale blue light beaming up toward the sky from the forest outside Mortal City, where DM just got the transfer of power in his bones. He knows she must be the new crown. And yes, it is certainly time to go find her.
- [80:38]
Nicole
Side note, I love how his chapter starts with him looking at his reflection in a manner mirror and then ends with him looking at his reflection through Sarai's eyes. Especially for someone who doesn't look in the mirror very often, if ever, because of his scar and everyone telling him he needs to get rid of it before becoming king. It's just so politic that he's looking at his scar, the proof of his devotion to Lumnos and DM when DM gets the crown.
- [81:04]
Lexi
Ah.
- [81:05]
Nicole
Meanwhile, somewhere else in Amarian, we are thrust into an epilogue with someone who we very quickly realize is Mrs. Arlie Bellator. Right off the bat, you can feel the difference in the writing. It's clear that we are no longer in DM's head, but instead we're watching Arlie as she begins her daily routine in a remote location. But we also have Arlie's epilogues written in third person, which I think is brilliant. We know that Pen was originally going to write the entire story in third person, even with diem, but she switched DM to first person because how important it is for us to be cemented in her thoughts and her delulu isms. But Arlie remained in third and I love it. Having a surprise chapter in third person. It adds an air of mystery, almost like we're spying on someone rather than watching through their own eyes. I remember getting this chapter on a first read and being like what? Oh my God. I was so shocked because both from surprise and loving the twist that you know Arleigh sure is alive, but also because we had no clue what half this chapter meant and we're not supposed to. But once you finish Heat of the Everflame and you go back, oh my God, there is so much here. And yes, we're about to go through all of it.
- [82:19]
Lexi
We immediately open with a timestamp Arlie has been elsewhere on Amarian for six months, two weeks and four days. Nice little reminder to us that spark took place over the course of only a little more than a than a month, considering Orly has been gone almost six months at the beginning of Chapter two. In other words, she's been here since Foraging Day. And where is here? This elsewhere on Omarion Kuriel, the island located in the middle of the Sacred Sea where only the Crowns are allowed to go. Orly's mission is this. Back on Foraging Day, she convinced Luther to let her secretly sail with him to Kuril. Remember that Luther was sailing to Kuriel on Foraging Day because the Crown of Lutheran Lumnosis blood was required to cast the Foraging spell, like every year on Foraging Day because King Ulther was so ill he was exempt from coming to the island himself. And that's why Luther was allowed to go in his stead with a vial of King Ulther's blood to perform the annual forging spell.
- [83:10]
Nicole
This is also what Yersel did for the Ambrose blood because she had more important places to be for Foraging Day, like in Lumnos to talk to Diem as the old woman.
- [83:19]
Lexi
The Crowns only go to Kuriel on two occasions. Once a year year on Foraging Day and for a new Crown's coronation. Knowing the king was too ill to survive another year. Aurelie knew this past Forging Day was her one chance to get onto Kuril before, presumably Luther's coronation. Little did she know Ulther would survive another six months, two weeks and four days. Orly had figured it might be a month. And why, oh why did Orly need to get to Kuriel in the first place. She had told Luther that there were rare medicinal plants that she needed to.
- [83:46]
Nicole
Harvest, which is kind of true. Flame root is, as far as we know, it only grown on coral real. Which is why the crowns cannot use their magic here. And in her time here, Arlie has managed to harvest a metric fuck ton of flame root for DM to last her about another decade. Which, by the way, aurally also still believes that DM is taking her flame root dosage every single day. Little does she know it's at the bottom of the sacred sea.
- [84:10]
Lexi
But to be clear, Luther does not know that it is flame root that she is wanting to harvest. Like he hasn't put those two together. We'll explore all of that in glow. But the real reason for Aurelie being on Kuriel was so that she could plant bombs on the island so that they'll detonate during the new Lumnose Crowns coronation. It's my understanding that she smuggled them onto the boat because Luther is not aware of the planned bomb attack. And then in this epilogue, she calls the bombs precious surprises that she miraculously managed to sneak in. The goal with these bomb explosions is not to kill the crowns in this rebel attack, but rather destroy extract the Crowns during the coronation and cause them to flee. So then the mortals who are working on their own ways to sneakily come to Kuril in boats for the coronation too, can take the island hostage, which gives them the upper hand with the descended in this war, because they understand how badly the descended, specifically the Crowns, need access to this island. So Orly's been waiting on Koreel for the next Lumnose Crowns coronation, when all the Crowns have to come back here. She assumes that the new Lumnose crown will be Luminosity Luther, and that'll be her best bet to get off the island. Plus, with it being the perfect opportunity for other guardians to get onto boats and sail here. So, all in all, honestly, a pretty good plan. This is the kind of thing that DM would be up for because it's not targeting people, it's a strategic territory approach, because we have to remember this island is off limits at all other times, and the shores and surrounding waters are monitored by patrol boats. So this is the one shot opportunity.
- [85:38]
Nicole
We also know that there are three people who know about Aurelie's plan, and only two of those three know her exact location. But of course it's aurally and she's mysterious even in her third person inner monologue. So we get to guess. I assume the two people who know her location are Mother Del, leader of Arboros and Vance. But then the third person who knew of her plan. All I can think of of is the Arboros queen, given how she's working with the rebels.
- [86:05]
Lexi
Nicole, how are you forgetting about your beloved Luther? I think the three people she told of her plan were Vance, Mother, Del from the Arboro cell and Luther. But only Mother Del and Luther know her location because Luther is the one who brought her to the location.
- [86:21]
Nicole
Okay, wait, no, hold on. Advance has to know her location, right? Because he tells Henry.
- [86:26]
Lexi
Yes, but remember how V Vance said, you know, the Arboro cell is doing this mission and we need somebody to help and that's the boat mission. Right. And so I think that Del will coordinate this mission separately with Vance and give him only the last 25%, which includes the location when the time gets closer, because he had said the mission to find the boats.
- [86:45]
Nicole
As you can tell, this is bugging us quite a bit. So we asked Ben this very need to know question for us and here's what she said.
- [86:55]
Pen (Author)
Who are the three people who know Arlie's plan and the two who know her location? Well, we know one who knows her location, which is of course Luther, because he's the one that took her there. The other is Vance. He, she and him had been planning this trip for a while. They wanted to do a mission on the island. They wanted to confront all of the Crowns at one time, but they didn't really know how they would get there because the island is so heavily guarded. And then Arlie saw this opportunity for Luther to take her on foraging day and they seized the chance that they had in front of them. The third person who knew about her plans but not her location was actually Andre. Now saying he knew her plans is definitely a loose definition. She had warned her him that she was going to go out of town sometime soon, but not when or where. And she of course didn't have the chance to tell him that she was leaving on forging day. So I think this is why he never really accepts her as dead. And of course he's worried about her, but he still has this hope that she's coming home because he did have that little bit of warning that she was planning something and he just had to trust that that this mysterious wife of his was on a trip of her own making and not in some very dangerous trouble. Now I will say that just because Arlie says that only three people knew of her plan does not mean that that's actually true now. She told three people. But as we later find out, of course Henry found out, which probably, probably means other people in the Guardians found out. And of course right before the mission, certainly many of them would have found out that Arlie was going to be there. So that's Arlie's perspective on who knows. But that doesn't necessarily mean that some loose lips might not have revealed her plans to others.
- [89:00]
Lexi
There's just so much mystery between the present and the past. In this epilogue when we read for the first time, I remember what really stood out with a question mark was Orly's commentary about being here last time. How the days got away from her and she lost sense of time, and how she had a newborn with her when the soldiers picked her up last time. Based off her and Andre's love story that he shared, we can gather that wherever she is, it's apparently the same place that she had her year long mission two decades ago. But wow, it creates such an air of mystery. And with the few answers it provides about Aurelie these past six months, this epilogue raises even more questions. I love it. It's like, yeah, we get answers. Oh wait, now we have a million more questions. I remember when I first read being on the sacred island really didn't cross my mind because it was barely mentioned in Spark, which in retrospect makes sense because Spark is viewed from immortal POV and Kuriel is the descendants and a symbol of the Kindred. I initially thought Aurelie was in a realm where mortals were banned or even somewhere off the map where it seems no one travels to. Now on a reread, it's. It seems so obvious, but it's also so easy to remember what the initial reactions and questions were. You know, the part however, that really tripped me up was the fact that there seems to have been someone else here.
- [90:06]
Nicole
Boy, oh boy, is there. One of the things I love about the series is that we don't meet the Big Bad until book three. But he is all over the page at the end of book one. I just get. I got chills. It's just so good. As part of Arlie's regular, regular routine, which she only does at night to the patrol boats. Don't see her. She approaches a glittering black stone door, which pause. That just makes this even more terrifying that this is at night, a door we now know is made of Godstone. This is the first place that Arlie went to when she first arrived back on the island. And she's continued to Visit it once a week just to calm that anxiety down.
- [90:43]
Lexi
Can we just take a moment to consider the psychological hurdles Arlie's gone through these past six and a half months on this island. I watch alone. It's one of my favorite TV shows. Shows. This kind of isolation and survival is hard, yes, physically, but more so mentally. Add on the horrors of your past and your abusive ex's old presence haunting you here. We can all say what we want about Orly, but this is intense.
- [91:05]
Nicole
Well, not to mention the fact that she stabbed him here. Yes, there's that rolling through her head. And I would be like, his ghost is coming to get me. When Arlie first made it to the island 20 years ago, she stumbled upon this same black door. But it appeared to not have been opened in generations. Generations. But nevertheless, she called out, and a voice answered her. The same moment from 20 years ago haunts Arlie now as she calls out his name. And nothing responds. And of course, no one responds. He was dead, right? She. She killed him herself by stabbing him with a godstone blade in the heart. The same place DM will get stabbed at the end of Heat of the Everflame. But still, to keep her anxieties at bay, she continues down the steps, never going farther than 15. But tonight, she only makes it to 12.
- [92:01]
Lexi
It's like she knows he was different. And her gut is telling her that maybe, just maybe, he somehow survived. I'm telling you, the psychological shit she's gone through on this island. Island is crazy.
- [92:11]
Nicole
So she strikes one of her precious few matches to illuminate her path and throws it to the ground. And quote, it hit the floor and took an unlucky bounce backward, not far enough to fill the shadows in the room.
- [92:27]
Lexi
The scariest thing about all of this is that he actually is there this whole time. He must be lurking in the shadows, purposefully not answering her. Ah, I have goosebumps.
- [92:38]
Nicole
I'm not the good guy. This is a fucking horror movie. Arlie is calling out to him, saying that she came back for him. And he's there, but remaining silent. I would love to know what Ophia Kai is thinking right now.
- [92:51]
Lexi
That's a good question for Pin.
- [92:53]
Nicole
You know what? It is a good question, and we asked it.
- [92:56]
Lexi
Let's hear what she has to say.
- [92:57]
Nicole
Because I won't be able to sleep at night until we know.
- [92:59]
Pen (Author)
Does Ophiuchi know that Arlie is on the island for six months? Well, first of all, Ophiuchi has been in the cell for 20 years. And in that time, he's had no sunlight, no human interaction. The only water he's got is the rainwater that seeps through the soil. The only food he has are whatever little bugs and creatures climb into the cell. So he's barely. Barely alive at this point. He's probably delusional from the isolation. Super weak. I mean, we're talking clinging to life by a thing thread. So Auralie keeps her distance from the cell until, you know, the. That one moment 30 days before she leaves. So for five months, she is keeping a very wide berth away from that cell because she has way too many memories and traumas attached to it. When she goes to the cell, she's only there for a minute. She barely says anything, and then she runs away and doesn't go near it again. If he heard her in that moment that she goes there. Number one, he's probably too delusional to recognize the voice or might even think it's just a voice in his head. And two, he doesn't want anything to do with her. I'm sure he's terrified that she has come back to finish the job that she started. So I. I think he probably isn't even sure himself if the voice he heard was her or just his own hallucinations. And if he did know that it was her, you know, he doesn't want anything to do with her at that point.
- [94:45]
Lexi
Okay, that actually helped ease my thoughts a little bit, that he is way too far gone to even really know what's going on. So thank you for not letting that seep into our nightmares, Pen. Appreciate.
- [94:56]
Nicole
I was thinking he was in the corner, like, kind of like cocking an eyebrow, like doing a little evil villain this and all of this, you know? But of course it's Pen. And of course there's more three dimensional than him.
- [95:07]
Lexi
Of course it's like, by the way, he's almost dead. Like he is barely alive. And it's like, oh, yeah, well, so now reminder for everybody that Ophiuchai does not break free from his chains until DM's blood falls on the Heartstone. That's not for another month after he breaks free and apparently gets a little bit better. He will lead those violent guardians and lay siege to cities across the realms. But it's crazy to realize none of that has happened yet. Ophiucha is still imprisoned for Orly's entire state.
- [95:36]
Nicole
Okay, this makes me think that the way Vance met Ophiuchai was actually meeting him on the island. And Vance is one of the people who helped bring him back to not back to life but like helped nurture him so he could live lead their new side of the rebellion.
- [95:49]
Lexi
I hadn't thought about that because you're right, Vance is on the island now. That would mean he would have to like go into the temple. Actually I could see him wanting to do that because it is made of godstone. So maybe he's like maybe there's more godstone down here.
- [96:01]
Nicole
Yeah.
- [96:02]
Lexi
And he comes across Ophiuchai and then. Oh my God.
- [96:05]
Nicole
Yeah, that's going to be a phone append for that. R Eli epilogue I guarantee you.
- [96:10]
Lexi
Oh my gosh. Yes, exactly. I do wonder if Ophiuchai knows that his daughter is next in the line for any of the realms crowns. Because when they meet in heat he pulls the crowns out of her and there are some eerie prophecy lines floating around that he could easily know about. So maybe he is just trying to stay alive and biting his time until his daughter becomes a crown and her blood will fall on the hearthstone. And that's when he can break free.
- [96:33]
Nicole
But just like I do, anytime I turn off the lights in a basement, Aurelie runs up the stairs and out to the island. But this time her feet take her to the glitter glaring black temple. A place she hasn't really gone on her six months on the isle. But then the ground trembles bringing her attention to the black tile floor. The moonlight revealing a symbol of a ten pointed star. Dun dun dun. We will come to learn this as Ophiuchai's symbol. But I wonder because it's not under the forgotten Kindred's archway, instead it's on the floor of the temple itself itself. So I wonder if the ten pointed star is actually the symbol of all of Omarion when there were 10 kindred.
- [97:15]
Lexi
I wonder that too.
- [97:16]
Nicole
Yes, and then when Ophiuchai was locked up the symbol died out. But then he made it his symbol so that it could be like the rallying of bringing back the ten Kindreds. Or you know, his power over them.
- [97:28]
Lexi
Because what if he believed in all of their combined powers? After all, it was his siblings who wanted to cast the forging spell. Spell so they could tie their lives to their mortal lovers and set up the realms and rulership for generations to come. Omnos did not have a mortal lover. And from what we gather in Montes personal diary, I think he was against the forging spell. He wanted his immortality. But what if that also included wilder magic and power over all of Amarian? The ten pointed star would fit perfectly into the belief of upholding that, yes.
- [98:00]
Nicole
Everything about being in this temple feels wrong to Arleigh. And I wonder if it's because. Because this island used to be the home of the Everflame, right where the temple is now erected. But the island was given to the Kindred, and the Everflame was then cut down and replaced with this temple. If Aurelie is somehow connected to the Everflame, which I keep needing to remind myself there is an if next to that, it would make sense about how standing in the physical manifestation of the Kindred's intrusion on the Everflame would make her feel a little on edge.
- [98:32]
Lexi
I love how her inner defiance. Defiance pushes her to continue toward the center. As if her anger at the Kindred for taking the Sanctuary just fuels her. Yep, that is DMs mom for sure.
- [98:42]
Nicole
Now, I'm assuming that the ground is rumbling because DM just took the crown and there's. You know, there's about to be a beam of light shooting into this temple, but I wonder. There's a part of me that wonders instead if it's actually because Arlie is stepping onto the temple floor.
- [98:57]
Lexi
Retweet. That's actually what I was thinking, since it's a few minutes before the big showdown. And tell me if I'm wrong. But there are two ground tremblings, right? One when she crosses over and then when she's already in there. Because then that's when she grabs onto the Heartstone. I think the second one is because of Ulther and Diem and all of that transfer of power. And the first one is because of her presence coming here.
- [99:18]
Nicole
But that doesn't stop Arleigh from looking around. And with the ground rumbling again, her hands fly out to a pedestal in the center of the temple, holding a hunk of glossy smoke rock. Arlie's hand brushes the rock that we now know as the Heartstone, and a searing pain shoots through her veins. Red welts begin to form on her hand and blister into an unnatural shade of gray. Gray. What? Why? The Heartstone is from the home world of the Kindred. Is it so? Is she having this reaction because she's mortal? Is she having this reaction because she's somehow connected to the Everflame?
- [99:55]
Lexi
I was wonder doing both these things too. Or maybe only the crowns can touch it and anyone else is burned off in the distance, Arlie hears a series of inhuman long, piercing cries, just like we heard from DMs POV. This is Sarai as she responds to the King of Lumnos dying and Luther's pov.
- [100:12]
Nicole
See, I didn't forget him this time. Ha.
- [100:15]
Lexi
And just as Orly goes to look in the direction of the sound, she sees the obelisk, which is a tall rectangular monument. Monument. The Sigil of Lumnos, the symbol of a moon and sun, fade into shadow. And the previously blue flaming cauldron at this tall statue's peak is now only wisps of smoke. I love being in Aurelie's POV here on the island, watching what happens at the epicenter of the Crown's magic when there is this transition of power for the crown. The Crown is so deeply rooted in each realm's magic, which is part of the bigger hold that makes up Amarian. And to witness the tangible effects is a really great addition here to spark. Although, you know, RIP King Ulther. Immediately after the extinguish of this luminous crown, Orly sees a column of light beam up into the sky from within the forest. While she has absolutely no idea Orly is witnessing her daughter DM become the Crown after she races through the forest and wades into the water near their family home outside Luminos mortal city. And in response to this crowning of a new Luminos royal ruler, a twin beam shoots down from out of the sky onto the glassy rock beside Arlie, filling it with a sapphire blue glow. Ah, I love this description so much. It's like Lumnos herself from up above. Answers to the passing of the crown right here on Korea. Seeing this is the best news Orly could ask for. It means what she's been waiting for for six months, two weeks and four days has finally happened. King Ulther is dead. Which means the countdown to the next Crown's coronation page begins. She knows it will only be 30 more days now. Oh my goodness. I can practically feel Aurelie's relief through the pages. She's been spiraling recently as the days tick by, wondering if it ended up being only a temporary sickness that the King had and not looming death like she assumed. Yes, she knew the risk when she left for this mission, but it's still nerve wracking to be stuck here for months longer than expected. However, now. Phew. With the realization Lumnos has selected a new crown, Orly knows how the transition of power works and that in 30 days there will be the challenging. Then after the challenging, it will be the coronation. But don't worry, we're gonna go way more into the 30 day rule for the transition of crowns in today's Sophos library. In this magic fueled segment of the episode. Let's tap into our Umbros magic and turn our full attention to important foreshadowing moments for the rest of the series, including speculations for book four.
- [102:31]
Nicole
While talking to Henry, he tells DM about what the descendant do to mortals in the other realms. We talked about this a little earlier, sharing a story about how Igneous closed their borders, not wanting to have mortals flee and give up information to the Umbros queen. The king's guards watched the mortals in the desert cook to death and sadly we will see the results of this when in Igneos in the heat of the Everflame we see their mortal city looking like it was abandoned in a hurry and on the outskirts hundreds of human bones cooking in the hot sun. Then he also shares about Sophos and how their mortals go there to see study, but then they never return due to some reason like illness or a tragic accident which has led many of the Guardians to understand that when the mortals outlive their usefulness they become the research. Now we know better. After he of the Everflame having gone to Sophos and as Teller will explain, the mortals here get paid so much that they send money back to their families. When thieves started realizing this, they started targeting anyone who had relatives who were studying being in Fortos because they had more money. So people began to fake their own deaths back to their home realms towns, only their family knowing that they were still alive so that they could send money to them. And as for the mortals who get experimented on, they volunteer to do it because they want to do something useful for science, but they get paid a fortune in the process. I'm gonna be real. I do not blame Henry and the Guardians for believing this rumor. Yes, they're spreading fake instances of the death, but the others around them believe it. And it looks pretty sus that when people go to Sophos they just die.
- [104:02]
Lexi
That's what I was gonna say too. Yep, the narrative falls right in line with exactly what the Guardians think of the descendant already, so it supports their mission to save all the mortals.
- [104:10]
Nicole
Honestly, for Sophos being so so wise, this seems like an oversight they should have squashed.
- [104:16]
Lexi
DM absolutely remembers this information from Henry. When the Sophos represented natives invite Teller to one of their research institutions, she turns them down and refuses to hear anything of it ever again. Which yes, good for her to defend her brother. But also, DM tries to protect Teller so much and can forget to treat him like the adult he is, quickly growing into declining this Sophos invitation and then forgetting to tell Teller about it will put quite the wedge between these two siblings.
- [104:43]
Nicole
There are so many mentions of moon and. And silver light or silver moon with me already being on silver fire silver light watch. It is now being tied together with my moon watch. Do you know what that means? I don't know. And I'm still cooking on it. But I'm waving my arms around saying something is here. Moon, silver, silver moon watch.
- [105:08]
Lexi
We get another mention of the world beyond Imarion. I don't know why I'm so set on what's beyond this continent, but here I am. How does the magic work there? Or is there magic like is whatever world is beyond this continent? Is it like the ancient mortal societies? As if the Kindred never came because the Kindred didn't come to these other spots in this world.
- [105:29]
Nicole
You know what? That sounds like a really good phone of Pen for someday.
- [105:32]
Lexi
She'll be like, why are you worrying about what else is going on? There's too many other problems here already.
- [105:39]
Nicole
Pen. This is how we deep dive. When are Arlie's hunting on Kuril? She notices how she finds a warren of rabbits whose quote, unexpected presence here she could only attribute to a gift from the old gods. I wonder, given Arlie's highly probable connection to the old gods in the Everflame, does this line have more meaning to it than meets the eye? The old gods watching over her and sending these little extra gifts would be literally them saying, hey, here you go. We're gonna send you a miraculous little warren of rabbits that shouldn't exist on this island.
- [106:13]
Lexi
You know that happens occasionally on alone and everybody gets so excited and then they're like, I can last forever here.
- [106:22]
Nicole
I need to watch alone with you.
- [106:23]
Lexi
Yes, you do.
- [106:26]
Nicole
I just want to know Arlie's connection. Her, the red hair, the ever Flame, and what the hell it means. Now it is time to enter the Sophos Library where each episode Lexi guides us through a world building topic to help us deepen our understanding of this world and the magic within it.
- [106:43]
Lexi
Today's Sophos Library topic is the transitioning of the crown. It feels like the perfect world building explainer as we finish spark and head into glow. It's like a nice little bridge for us, right? Each of the nine realms always has a crown. And friends, we're gonna have a little bit fun here today and we're gonna make a drink drinking game out of every time I say crown. This is not an actual drinking game, but like a hydration Game. There we go. Nicole's got her water there. I've got my water. Let's do this. After a realm's crown dies, the crown passes on to the most powerful living descendant of that kindred's bloodline. Or that was the case before DM came along. But that's a whole other discussion that we're not getting into today. Sometimes a crown grows old and dies of natural causes, or the crown is assassinated or even dies because the forging mass magic itself has decided it's time for the crown to change hands. Even if the current crown is still young and healthy, the kindred are able to speak through the current crown's body or speak to the current crown as it gets closer to their time of passing. You all Nicole on video right now is. I don't have enough time to swallow.
- [107:43]
Nicole
Before you say it again.
- [107:49]
Lexi
It's also never truly known who the next crown will be until the magic picks the new one. One since the descendants magic is impossible to tangibly measure, it's really just a giant guessing game. Although there can and are frontrunner predictions like Luther for Lumnos. Once the magic picks the new crown, there is a surge of bright light and the person feels an immense pain at the top of their head, like a migraine starting, followed by excruciating heat and a heaviness where the actual crown is attempting to break free. During all of this, there is a of lot large explosion of power in the form of a beam of light from the new crown's two hands. With this light beaming shooting up into the sky. This is followed by a twin beam of light shooting down onto the heartstone on Kuril. Like we were saying there that Orly saw. Moments before this happens, the ground on the island rumbles and then the light beam hits the heartstone and the cauldron flame of that crown snuffs out along with realm sigil on its obelisk going dark. Then that's when there is a beam of light and relighting of the cauldron flame in that realm's color. Along with gaining power over their realm's magic, the new crown also gets control of the realm's gryvern, which is bound to serve as a companion and guardian to the crown. The immortal beasts who originally came to this world with their kindred were bound during the foraging to an eternity of service to their crown. These Gryvrens are exceedingly smart, having their own minds and opinions, but they are magically bound to obey only the crown. This might mean they are forced into service to a ruler whose goals they might not share. Share. Luckily, that is not going to be the case with Sarai and Diem, and we just can't wait for her to be more in our story and Glow. They are also attuned to the magic of the crown and can sense the emergence of a new crown even before the previous one has fully passed. Like we see with King Ulther, Diem and Sarai in Lumnos. After the crown is chosen, if the crown is in the same house as the previous ruling house and gets through the challenging, then there's not really any major changes to the palace lifestyle beyond, you know, fresh Polish political maneuvering with a new ruler. But if a new House is crowned, then the current house moves out of the palace because, you know, they're not royalty anymore after all. This most likely means all the staff and guards have to move out too, and they get fresh ones in there. Because houses tend to only trust their own and only employ their own members of their family who are less powerful than them. Once the new crown is selected by the magic, there is the period of challenging, which is actually a modern tradition to eliminate the inevitable power structure struggle. Before the Blood War, the Houses would continually assassinate the new crown, hoping that they would be the next one selected. Because of the chaos this caused in the realm, the Challenging was created as a way for everyone to accept the new ruler as worthy. Now the Houses only get one shot. Do not take your chance to blow. I don't know if those are the right lyrics, but you know what I mean. Now the house is only one shot at taking out the new crown. Where anyone Lumnos descended can challenge the new crown and if they deem them unworthy. If the challenger fails, everyone must accept the Crown's reign without interference. The period of challenging lasts 30 days and officially begins with the Ascension Ball. At the Ascension Ball, each of the other Crowns send two representatives along with a gift for the new crown. The ball is just one of many tests the new Crown must go through for the challenging. In an attempt to not be challenged. During the period of challenging, the new Crown hosts House reception receptions. These are private meetings with the heads of each of the 20 houses in an attempt to persuade them not to challenge the Crown. The receptions are also an opportunity for the Houses to learn more about the crown and especially establish new trade alliances. On the day of the challenging, all of the Houses gather at the arena, where each of the Houses has an opportunity to raise a challenge. If one or more challengers steps forward, the Regent selects the strongest of them to fight the crown using only their magic until one of them is dead. After one of them dies. If the crown wins, they get to be coronated during the rite of coronation. Otherwise, a new crown is selected and a period of challenging restarts. I hope your drinking game is going better than Nicole's right now. There is always the chance and the hope that no one challenges the crown. After all, the last five Croix crowns weren't challenged. There is also little benefit for a house to raise a challenge. If they do and fail, they not only lose their the most powerful member of their house because they just died, but they also make an enemy of the crown and the reigning house because they just tried to say, hey, we don't think you're worthy. And guess what? If they don't win, then they're kind of fucked when it comes to, you know, political alliances and stuff. And even if their challenger succeeds, they still risk making an enemy of the ruling house because the next crown still goes to the most powerful. Very well might not be the challenger. It could literally be someone else in the exact existing ruling house. And they're still pissed off at the challenger. Oh, boy. And there you have it, friends, A fun teaser for the events of glow.
- [112:25]
Nicole
Thank you very much. We need to finish this very quickly because I'm gonna need to fix my pants real soon. Let us close out this episode with skipping around the apple orchard as we discuss our favorite moments from this stretch of chapters.
- [112:37]
Lexi
When DMs in trouble with her father and she offers for him to put all the reasons he's mad at her into a hat. And then he can pick one. One to yell at her about first. This is such a adult living under a parent's roof energy. Also probably teenager energy. In any case, it gave me a chuckle in the midst of a very serious scene.
- [112:53]
Nicole
Yes, and we have to mention it one more time. The utter chills we get when we read the line quote, you're the new Queen of Lumnos. Everything in our story has been building to this moment. Just, brava, Pen. Brava.
- [113:07]
Lexi
And I'm going to throw one more out there. Just the entire epilogue. I absolutely loved that. Oh, my gosh. I thought that was just absolutely brilliant, where you had no idea what was going on when you were reading it. But in hindsight, it makes so much sense. And you get all of it, and it's right there.
- [113:22]
Nicole
I love it. Well, and Pen is so good at trusting the reader to pick up on clues. Yes, with dm, they are very heavy hinted clues, but that's because it's for dm. She is that far in Deluland. But when it comes to Arlie, Pen really trusts the reader to not know what the hell is going on. And I love it when an author takes does that so, so much.
- [113:43]
Lexi
All right friends, there you have it. Thank you so much for listening to the conclusion of our Spark of the Everflame Deep Dive. This was the shortest deep dive we've ever done of one book. I think we did six episodes of Fourth Wing way back in fall 2023 when we were baby podcasters and now we've done up to 13 episodes. But yes, five episodes. There we have it.
- [114:03]
Nicole
There we go. Our journey through the Kindred's Curse saga is just getting started though, because we are jumping right into Glow of the Everflame next Monday, which is one of my favorite books of all time. I'm so excited with episode one where we are covering chapters one through seven. Time to meet the corpoise. I'm so excited.
- [114:21]
Lexi
Me too. We would love to give the biggest warm welcome, welcome, welcome to our newest Crowns Council members.
- [114:28]
Nicole
Thank you so much for joining Summer Rose, Noel, Leah J. Kelly, Cassie, Casey, Erica and Brittany S. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
- [114:37]
Lexi
Yay. Thank you so much for being part of our Crowns Council. Thank you so much for being with such positive lights in this community. We appreciate you so, so so much. And friends, if you're like, hey, I want my name shattered on the podcast and to be showered with all the love and attention to join our fan club@Fantasy Fangirls.com Fan Club Link is also in the show notes.
- [114:55]
Nicole
Thank you as always to our top SoFo scholar aka content researcher Brooke and our executive producer aka our sanity manager Hayden.
- [115:05]
Lexi
We are very active on social media with weekly trivia, Amarian Guides and lots, lots more. So please be sure to follow us on Instagram and slash our Tik tok at fantasy fangirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube or you want to watch on YouTube for the Henry hat or watching Nicole try to drink two gallons of water, please hit that subscribe button to keep following along.
- [115:25]
Nicole
And while you're hitting the buttons, please take a second to rate and review the podcast. It takes two moments of your day to hit that five star button. Write a little love note in the review section and it is one of the most helpful things you can do, not just for this show, but for any podcasts you listen to. And last but not least, share this episode with your fellow Ever Flame friends. If your group Chat was so confused as to what was happening in this epilogue. And then you ready heated the Ever Flame and you're like oh my God, I get it now. This is a great episode to go beat by beat through that delicious chapter.
- [115:57]
Lexi
All right friends, we will see you next week with Glow of the Everflame. Bye bye bye. Over these past four Spark episodes and even during our intro episodes interview with Pin, it's important to keep bringing up how aligned. Nicole, stop laughing at me.
- [116:13]
Nicole
Oh my God. Right before making out with dm. Oh, excuse me, Right after making out with dm. Luther Heads.
- [116:27]
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- [116:58]
Lexi
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey, you know what'd be fun?
- [117:07]
Nicole
If we could go back to the 80s and watch all those awesome summer.
- [117:10]
Lexi
Movies at the multi Duplex. You read my mind. Hi. He's Javier Grigo Markswatch, Emmy winning writer, producer of Lost, the Dark Crystal, Age.
- [117:19]
Nicole
Of Resistance and the Witcher.
- [117:20]
Lexi
And he's Paul Alvarado Dykstra, co founder of Fantastic Fest.
- [117:24]
Nicole
Join us on our cinematic adventure that is multiplex.
- [117:29]
Lexi
Our entire first season is now available spanning the summer of 82.
- [117:32]
LinkedIn Ad Speaker
We're talking Star Trek 2 ET, Blade.
- [117:34]
Lexi
Runner, Tron, Rocky 3. And on memorial Day weekend, we kick off the summer of 83 with new episodes weekly covering Return of the Jedi, War Games, Trading Places Crawl. So we'll see you in line at The Multiplex Multiplexer. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.