Everything We Learn from Sarah J Maas on Call Her Daddy Podcast

Summary

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Fantasy Fangirls: Everything We Learn from Sarah J Maas on Call Her Daddy Podcast (March 5, 2026)

Episode Overview

Nicole and Lexi—sisters, book obsessives, and hosts of Fantasy Fangirls—record an emergency bonus episode covering every major reveal and insight from Sarah J. Maas’ headline-making interview on the Call Her Daddy podcast. This episode contains massive spoilers for the ACOTAR series (especially A Court of Silver Flames), and later delves into Throne of Glass, Crescent City, and the broader Maasverse. The sisters geek out, analyze future book teases, and offer heartfelt reflections on creativity, motherhood, trauma, and the power of fantasy fiction.

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Key Insights & Discussion Points

1. Sarah J. Maas Breaks Her Silence: Three New ACOTAR Books Incoming

[06:09] – [13:28]

• Announcement: Sarah J. Maas revealed on Call Her Daddy that not just one, but three new ACOTAR books are in the works—and they're essentially a single story split into three physical volumes.
  • “These next three books are technically one big book, basically split into three volumes... literally physically impossible for book glue to hold that many pages together.” (Nicole, [06:58])
• Book Structure:
  • Not a trilogy, but one tale in four parts, published as three books due to length constraints. Book glue trauma after Kingdom of Ash is real!
  • Release Dates:
    • Part 1: October 27, 2026, (~352 pages)
    • Parts 2 & 3: January 12, 2027, (~928 pages)
    • Part 4: TBD, but Sarah’s on deadline.
• Writing & Headspace:
  • Sarah needed to be in the right emotional space to craft this story, especially after giving birth and regaining creative rights for TV adaptations.
  • “It took her a long time to write this book because there was a lot going on in her life...” (Nicole, [07:00])
  • Her breakthroughs began during a retreat to Big Sky, Montana—book girlies, take note!

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2. Speculation & Teasers for the New ACOTAR Books

[13:29] – [30:27]

• Titles and Cover Art: Title and cover exist, but are embargoed until closer to publication. Lexi and Nicole speculate based on teaser colors—Dusky, sunset shades—that Dusk Court will be central to the plot.
  • “I definitely think we are getting a major Dusk Court plotline based on the teaser cover colors…” (Nicole, [14:21])
• Book Length: First volume is a “normal-sized novel” to set up the story, followed by the “Big Kahuna” in January—one of the largest Maas books ever.
• Vibe: Sarah’s writing playlist includes grunge and dark tracks from the Batman soundtrack, hinting at a darker, possibly more emo tone.
• Unexpected POVs: The sisters theorize the next ACOTAR will feature multiple POVs (possibly 4–8), Throne of Glass-style, not just a single main narrator.
  • Potential POVs: Elain, Azriel, Nesta (possibly larger role), Lucien, Mor, Eris, Gwyn, Emery, Feyre, and perhaps even young Nyx.

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3. Big Themes: Trauma, Healing, and Motherhood—Behind the Story

[40:57] – [73:27]

• Maas Reflects on Success:
  • New definition of success centers on personal happiness and relationships, not just book sales or fandom hype.
  • “...now it’s instead about how happy she, Sarah, is.” (Nicole, [41:44])
• Creativity & Worldbuilding:
  • Sarah works without maps or spreadsheets; the interwoven, intricate Maasverse all lives in her head.
• Pantser versus Plotter:
  • She “headlight writes”—writing only as far as she can see, letting the story and its characters surprise her. (No, Rhysand did not exist in her early drafts!)

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4. Criticism & Joy: The “Smut” Debate and Female Empowerment

[45:45] – [55:01]

• Genre Dismissal:
  • Strong stance against how fantasy written by women—with romance or sex—gets trivialized.
  • “Sex is always tied to the plot with these books... the second it brings a woman joy, it’s dismissed.” (Nicole, [51:14])
  • Calls out the double standard versus male-written fantasy (Game of Thrones noted as a specific example).

5. Pregnancy, Autonomy, and Healing: Feyre, Rhysand, and Nesta

[62:27] – [74:14]

• Feyre’s Pregnancy: Directly reflects Sarah’s own traumatic experiences with childbirth and motherhood.
  • Shared feelings of loss of control, fear, and real physical danger.
  • “She channeled a lot of that fear into Rhys... he’s allowed to make bad decisions and learn from it.” (Nicole, [65:29])
• Nesta & Silver Flames: Sarah channeled her own postpartum depression and therapy journey into Nesta’s arc in A Court of Silver Flames.
  • “Nesta was in a hole, SJM was in a hole. And, quote, we dug our way out of it together.” (Nicole, [73:33])
• Found Family and Mental Health: The healing journey isn’t just about romantic love, but friendship, found family, and self-forgiveness.

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6. Fandom Questions, Crack Theories & Minor Revelations

[82:03] onward

• Elaine’s Arc: All signs point to Elaine having a central POV in the coming books, with her trauma, autonomy, and romantic fate (Lucien vs. Azriel vs. no one) being a major focus.
  • “Her own emotional journey will be a major plot point. Plot A, yes.” (Nicole, [85:40])
  • SJM was super cagey, leading to much theorizing but no spoilers given.
• Lucien, Vassa, and the Band of Exiles: Serious plotlines expected.
• Mor’s Powers: Heavily hinted to be more than just “truth”—theorized to be kraken- or witch-related.
• Bryaxis: The ultimate “where do you think fear goes?”—expect ambiguity.
• Logistics: How do Fae get to the House of Wind? SJM promises an answer soon!
• Fan Favorite Minutiae: Rhysand’s last name? Doesn’t matter, per SJM. King of Hybern's name? Also non-essential. Pool of starlight in Spring Court? Maybe a portal, but SJM won’t confirm.

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Major Quotes & Moments

• On Book Length & Structure:
  • “She’s literally waging war against the publishing glue by doing this. And I’m so proud of her.” (Lexi, [13:10])
• On POV Surprises:
  • “One of the surprising things that came out of her with this book was the POV, which... I’m leaning more and more toward this being more epic like Throne of Glass and even Crescent City with more character POVs.” (Nicole, [25:05])
• On the Dusk Court:
  • “This cements, confirms, underline, italicize... that this is absolutely what we are going to be learning about in Acotar 6, 7, and 8.” (Nicole, [97:30])
• On Sex in Fantasy:
  • “At the end of the day, when it comes to a woman writing... the second you tap into sex, it suddenly dismisses the rest of the work because it’s suddenly all about sex. And as Sarah J. Maas puts it, it suddenly devalues the work when it’s like, ‘what the fuck?’ Sex is a huge part of the human and experience.” (Nicole, [50:18])
• On Pregnancy and Motherhood:
  • “Just because you become a mom, you become stronger... the strongest, most beautiful version of yourself as a mom.” (Nicole, [68:23])
• On Mental Health & Silver Flames:
  • “At the end of the book, Nesta’s not healed by any means. She’s still a work in progress, just as we all are.” (Nicole, [73:33])
• On Film Adaptation Control:
  • “She sees these film adaptations as extensions of her world and she wants to be in charge of it... She loves TV and movies and wants to be part of the process... she’s excited about her books again.” (Nicole, [56:09])

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Fast Facts & Fandom Notes

• Should you read TOG and Crescent City before ACOTAR 6?
  • Strongly recommended, especially Crescent City, for full context on crossovers. (Nicole, [37:02])
  • But not mandatory—you can rely on shows and recaps (like Fantasy Fangirls!)
• Twilight of the Gods:
  • Was once a work-in-progress, but SJM says to “ignore” the theorizing about a giant series crossover.
• Crossover Theories (Maasverse, mass first):
  • Mor as a kraken witch, Fury’s connection to Amren, Rhysand and Ruhn lineage links, Mama Archeron potentially a descendant of the Fae Selene of Crescent City.
  • SJM dodges and laughs off many intricate theories, but fans speculate Dusk Court, Selene, and cross-series bloodlines will all be key.

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Memorable and Emotional Moments

• Sarah’s Emotional Transparency: Cried on Call Her Daddy; reflected deeply on motherhood, healing, and reader impact.
• Lexi and Nicole’s Vulnerability: Shared personal struggles with postpartum, mental health, and the search for identity outside of professional success—themes mirrored in Maas’s books.
• FFG Housekeeping & Community:
  • Plugs for Fantasy Fan Club, Discord, and upcoming live shows.
  • Reminders of their extensive ACOTAR and Throne of Glass episode libraries ([38:32]), plus full-throttle excitement over “living in ACOTAR” for months.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:09]: ACOTAR book structure and release schedule breakdown
• [14:21]: Major speculation on Dusk Court and cover colors
• [18:08]: Playlist inspirations—Batman soundtrack, K-pop, hints at book’s mood
• [25:05]: Multi-POV speculation; possible characters
• [40:57]: Sarah’s new outlook on success, happiness, and relationships
• [41:44]: Joy vs. fear and pressure of external validation
• [50:18]: “Smut” debate, Romantasy, and genre devaluation
• [65:29]: Themes of trauma, healing, and pregnancy arcs in ACOTAR
• [73:33]: Silver Flames as personal and cathartic
• [97:30]: Dusk Court as the next big plot arc
• [122:22]: Dusk Court, Maeve, and Archeron lineage connections (full spoiler zone)

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Final “Fan Lightning Round” & Crack Theories

• Rhysand, Hunt, Rowan—Fuck, Marry, Kill: SJM won’t answer; Lexi and Nicole do!
  • Lexi: Marry Rowan, F* Rhysand, kill Hunt
  • Nicole: Marry Rhysand, kill Rowan, F* Hunt (for reasons involving wings and tongue/vibrator crossovers…)
  • “I mean, don’t we all, girl?” (Nicole, [135:37])

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Closing Takeaways

This episode is an enthusiastic, nerdy, and deeply emotional debrief of both SJM’s creative life and the future of Prythian’s saga. It’s essential listening for fans who want a full, heartfelt speculative roadmap for ACOTAR’s next era—with all the sisterly warmth, fandom giddiness, and sharp analysis the Fantasy Fangirls are known for.

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Transcript

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[Nicole]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. One of my favorite parts of March

[Lexi]

is getting to celebrate International Women's Day Huzzah.

[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

therapy for, oh my gosh, just shy of three years. Oh, what a different person I am.

[Nicole]

Not only am I just absolutely obsessed with my therapist, she's amazing. She calls me out but in ways that never make me feel less than she's. She's really, really helped me shake the narrative of I have to be all or nothing all the time and she is just the best shots to you Taylor.

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[Lexi]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls podcast where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, characters, theme series and more.

[Nicole]

I'm Lexi, older sister and Fantasy Lore nerd.

[Lexi]

And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart.

[Nicole]

And we have absolutely no chill today because today is an emergency bonus episode. It's been a minute because Sarah J. Maas broke her silence as a guest on Call Her Daddy and wow, do

[Lexi]

we have a lot to talk about everybody.

[Nicole]

With that said, please listen closely to our spoiler warning for today. This entire episode will have ACOTAR series spoilers. We will will be talking a lot about Silver Flames for this entire episode, much like it was throughout the interview. We will keep our Throne of Glass, Crescent City and Mass first spoiler discussions toward the later part of this episode. And yes, we will absolutely give a big spoiler warning when we head into those spoilery discussions. So you can jump if you need to.

[Lexi]

So with all of that said, if you don't know why we are suddenly very interested as to which POV the next ACOTAR book set plural are going

[Nicole]

to be, then please go listen to the Call Her Daddy interview. We will be here when you're done.

I don't know.

[Lexi]

I think we've all been speculating that for a long time and we're gonna keep speculating or just scourge the Internet. You've got plenty of stuff there. We'll still be here.

[Nicole]

Next up, we at Fantasy Fangirls are adults who say adult things about adult books, talking about adult interviews. In other words, friends, this podcast is

rated R. If Sarah J. Maas was asked Fuck, Marry, Kill Reese, Rowan and

[Lexi]

Hunt, we are definitely going to be asking ourselves, fuck, marry, kill Reese, Rowan and Hunt.

[Nicole]

So please be mindful of those little listening ears.

Additionally, we are so excited to see you at our upcoming live show.

We will be at the Neptune theater in Seattle, Washington on April 19, where we are diving deep into the iconic animated movie how to Train youn Dragon.

[Lexi]

Link below to get your tickets.

[Nicole]

Last thing before we jump into this SJM interview episode. If you love Fantasy Fangirls and want more events, more content, more community and so much more. Please check out Fantasy Fan Club.

We have six membership tiers that you can join which includes access to our monthly community events, live Q&As, early access to AD free episodes, a welcome gift

[Lexi]

and our personal favorite on days like

[Nicole]

today, access to our biggest boppin discord

[Lexi]

that you bet has a specific channel

[Nicole]

devoted to this Call Her Daddy interview

[Lexi]

and it is one of my favorite places to scourge right now.

[Nicole]

Join the party@fantasy fangirls.com fan club and really and truly thank you so much for supporting us as we've turned this podcast into a dream come true. It is all because of you.

And now it is time to dive deep into this Call Her Daddy interview.

[Lexi]

Can we collectively scream after years of silence, not one, not two Acotar books but a third one also on the way. What in the mass verse cauldron has been so good to us. The Crystals, the mountainous of the Big Sky Montana has blessed us today.

[Nicole]

So yes, so we did get one social media post like what was it six months ago? And Alex Cooper did ask right about what the deal was with that Acotar draft social posts last year. Was it a 6? 8? Was it an arrow? And after making a cheeky joke about how shitty her handwriting is, girl, I feel you.

[Lexi]

I also have shitty handwriting and I don't you look at me like that big sister, but I just thought that was so funny. Oh my gosh.

[Nicole]

So Sarah did confirm that it is indeed ACOTAR 6 with an arrow, meaning ACOTAR 6 and beyond. Because these next three books are technically one big book, basically split into three volumes. She specifies specified it is not a trilogy, but four parts as three books because it is literally physically impossible for book glue to hold that many pages together. I love how much she emphasized that. She really doesn't want to restrain herself or be held back by literal glue, especially after she was newly postpartum and having to find enough from Kingdom of Ash to cut five pages so it could even go to print, which that didn't even end up mattering. But that's a different story. Sarah emphasized that this story is the one that she needs to tell and she's going to let the story unfold in an organic way. And it took her a long time to write this book because there was a lot going on in her life that she needed to sort out. She did not allude to what these specific things were. She's not entitled to have to do that with us. She didn't allude to what those were said. Maybe one of these days she will be open to sharing. But she already cried once on this podcast episode. She did say that she had to make sure she personally was in the right headspace space to tap into that creative outlook and able to have the story come out.

I do have two quick speculations that like I'm going to just boldly say these are speculations. We do not have these confirmed. But I do wonder if part of it was the block after the aftermath of CC3 and how it was taken by the fandom. Yes, it was a sticky book. It gave us a lot of answers every like no spoilers. But there were some really, really good chunks in there and there were some things that felt a little disjointed to the fandom. But Sara also mentions how there was stuff in her personal life that she alluded to maybe discussing one day. She also mentioned about how getting her media rights back to the ACOTAR world for the TV show was a whole big thing that maybe she'd talk about one day. There definitely seemed like there was more to the story there and I. I bet you anything that would take up a lot of creative brain space trying to fight for those rights.

Exactly. I can only imagine how much is going on behind the scenes for sjm, both in business and personal life. And if there was any big takeaway from this interview is that she's a everybody. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And after a while she finally went to Big Sky Montana and it all clicked and this story poured out of her. She kept joking that there is like an energy vortex there and she, you could see her just light up and she was having fun with writing again.

[Lexi]

How many book retreats or book girly weekends are going to be booked in Big Sky Montana? Oh, I know, right? I love it.

[Nicole]

Oh my gosh. All right, so we know that the next chunk of the ACOTAR story is going to be coming out on October

[Lexi]

27, which is so much sooner than we thought it was going to be.

[Nicole]

By the time she got to writing the end of part one, it was already 400 pages.

[Lexi]

God dang.

[Nicole]

Then parts two and three are going to be coming out January 12th, 2027.

[Lexi]

Happy birthday to me. Oh my God. She admitted that those were absolutely long, hence the glue cann even binding them all together.

[Nicole]

We'll talk about length in a second. Considerable. And part four currently is on deadline, but it is not done being written yet. She is focused entirely on getting parts one through three out because she highlighted multiple times how there has not been a book in a while, and she feels that responsibility to the fandom to get something out to us. And I really do appreciate her saying something like that. Yes, it's been a running joke in the fandom about how we've all been, you know, like, oh, my God, the silence.

[Lexi]

It's been so hard because it has.

[Nicole]

Like, this is a story that means so, so much to so many of us. And I really do appreciate that she's taking that into consideration while still making sure it's the best that it can possibly be. And I'm really, really proud of her for that. Now, of course. That said, when do you think part four could come out? Because considering she hasn't finished writing it yet, I'm thinking the earliest it could be would be 2028, especially because of how focused she is on parts one through three in the lead up to, I'm assuming January 12th, or at least until those copy edits are done. But because this is something she's so locked in on, she sees this arc fully. I do believe that when she does sit down to finish part four, it is going to out of her, like she was saying.

But she's on deadline for it right now.

She is on deadline. So my 2028 is looking a little

[Lexi]

translucent right now, actually.

[Nicole]

What do you think?

I'm throwing all caution, all the rules I have been following about publishing out the window at this point. Whoa.

[Lexi]

Yes. Whoa. That's what she pretty much said. I know, but to hear you say it, you of all people, that's amazing.

[Nicole]

I think we will get part four. So again, that is book three. Yes. This is going to be confusing for the fandom. I think we will get it by fall of 2027. Because Sarah also emphasizes how the three volumes of this one big story, they're meant to be read together. So I think we will get all three roughly within the same year. Like even an October 2027 release, which is wild because these past few days and much longer than that. I know we've been very insistent and vocal on setting expectations for the fandom. First of all, we do feel like that is just our responsibility to do that. We do not want to hype up more than we already are. But Sarah herself says she's not going to play by the industry rules. She's doing something different because that is what her story demands, and I love that. And so I am now an optimist with all of this.

So do we owe some eggs on

[Lexi]

our faces to the fandom. I think we do.

[Nicole]

I think we do. Technically, she announced two, but if the third one also comes out within the same year, then that's eggs. At this point, I don't even care. I'm a happy camper. I will happily smash an egg on your face and you can smash one on mine.

[Lexi]

I was going to say, you better have the second half.

[Nicole]

My.

[Lexi]

My favorite part of.

[Nicole]

Not my favorite part, but one of my favorite parts about this announcement and this drop that she just did on

[Lexi]

the fandom is that she's literally waging war against the publishing glue by doing this. And I'm so proud of her. I'm so excited. She's, like, traumatized after that Kingdom of Ash stuff, and she's like, no glue will stop me. I love that for you girls.

[Nicole]

Do it.

[Lexi]

Do it. Okay, so glue aside, let's talk about some of the deets that we know

[Nicole]

from this next Acotar story that's split into three volumes. There is a title, but she's not sharing it yet. And there is a cover that she's very excited about. But again, she's not sharing it yet. I get that, like, she wants to, like, build up the hype to October.

[Lexi]

Like, oh my God, now in October? How many emergency episodes do you think we're about to do between now and October? Boy, don't. Don't speak that into hate. So trying to get through this one and we're recording tomorrow. It'll be so fun.

[Nicole]

Now, to be honest, a lot of people have asked, asked us like, what's your speculation on titles? Like, what do you think? Fantasy fangirls? And I am not going to lie with this pov wink, winking that something's going to be unexpected. We'll talk about more that more in a second.

[Lexi]

I am less stumped and I don't even want to start guessing.

[Nicole]

I like to defer to our friend Lauren of Book Huddle with the title speculation. I love her ideas and I agree with her that it will be a court of blank blank. Kind of like how it was a court of silver flames to really establish that this is a new story in its own way. So I do think that we will get something like that. I don't know if this is necessarily related to the title, but I definitely think we are getting a major Dusk Court plotline based on the teaser cover colors of the yet to be revealed cover. They are dusk colors. They are sunset colors. And on the Bloomsbury Social Post, the first book is dark gray with the dusk colors as the text, I think this book, this volume, which will be part one, will be mostly in the night court. And it is all the setup for the big second book. And with that book having the dusk colors on the whole cover and then like the dark gray text, I think the dusk court is going to be the main plot line we can expect especially for that book too.

Well, speaking of this, let's talk about the length of these books because we know that they they're long. They can't literally be bound by book glue.

[Lexi]

Have we mentioned that before that she's

[Nicole]

splitting them into three different volumes of four different parts? Looking at the Barnes and noble website, part one, which releases in October, is listed at 352 pages, which for reference book one of ACOTAR is 448 pages. Now, before you're like, oh no, it's a novella. The way she is talking, it is not a novella. I'm just going to go ahead and

stamp that out for reference. Frost and Starlight, which is a novella that is 261 pages. So bottom line, that book is way shorter. This one is going to be a normal novel page count. It's going to warm us up for

[Lexi]

the Big Kahuna in January. Yes, well, speaking of which, let's talk

[Nicole]

about the one that we get on January 12th.

[Lexi]

We get the Big Boy, which is

[Nicole]

right now listed at 928 pages. This is for parts two and three of this four part story arc. This is not much shorter than Kingdom of Ash.

Yes, it is of considerable length, I'd say.

[Lexi]

Yes, it is of considerable length.

[Nicole]

Now because she has not finished part four yet. We don't know how long that one is looking.

My guess is that part four will be closer to book one's length. So it'll be two books that are under slash around that 400 page marker with the big beefy boy in the middle.

See, I'm thinking that one's going to be closer to like the 550, 600 page range. Closer to like a Mist and Fury situation. It'll all depend on obviously what happens between parts one through three. But I love that parts two and three. I agree with you completely. I think those are gonna be meaty, meaty, meaty. Dusk Court.

Yes.

And I have a feeling we're gonna get part one. It's gonna end on some kind of cliffhanger that's gonna make us.

[Lexi]

But oh my gosh, I can't even

[Nicole]

imagine not having very long to wait.

[Lexi]

I know. What? Oh my God. And it's the holidays.

[Nicole]

Anyway, so that time goes by extra fast.

[Lexi]

And we'll be deep dive.

[Nicole]

We'll go through this in a second, but we'll be deep diving.

Exactly.

And then we'll go straight into part three.

Oh, my God.

[Lexi]

And so we'll be living in the acotar again for so long. I cannot wait. Oh my God.

[Nicole]

For Sarah's writing playlist. At the moment, certain songs from the soundtrack to Rob Pattinson's Batman are speaking to her. That is the most random.

[Lexi]

What.

[Nicole]

What does your writing playlist sound like

[Lexi]

right now I've ever heard.

[Nicole]

She's also a huge K pop demon hunter girly. Always playing the soundtrack to the point her kids are sick of it. I can absolutely relate to this. And Sarah, may I suggest getting a Bluetooth light show device? They're super cheap to create a concert in your living room. And then the kids are going to absolutely love Soda Pop golden all the songs again. It helps them get back into it. And yes, I'm absolutely speaking from personal experience.

Well, okay, so I want to talk about this Rob Pattinson Batman for a second. Because knowing that that is going to be closer to the vibe of this next installment, I am curious because it's very grunch, it's emo, it's dark.

[Lexi]

And if we are getting Elaine storyline. Oh dear.

[Nicole]

Because yes, Elaine is not very dark. Literally in. In. In the colors she wears in the associated with spring.

I mean, not like I'm not talking about spring court. I'm just talking about the colors and lice and blossoms and gardening and all of that.

Yeah, but she's going through so much trauma right now. And the external appearance might still be that springy sprungness, her inside world. It might feel very grunge, very dark, very emo in this way. Now, we also don't know that this is Elaine. We'll get more into this in a second. It could be a whole slew of

[Lexi]

other characters that we can pick and choose one. Throw a dart at a dartboard.

[Nicole]

Okay, so then let's just get straight into it. Actually, the POV curveball that she threw at us was that she said it was surprising to her and it offers

[Lexi]

insights to various things. What the fuck? We gotta talk about this.

[Nicole]

We cannot wait to continue dissecting this interview. But really quick. But let's quickly break for a word from our sponsors.

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[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

Not only were we able to narrow it down by height because our I

[Lexi]

have a very specific nightstand height recommend requirement. I'm very weird that way, but it just, it is only what works for me.

[Nicole]

And I was able to narrow it down by drawers having outlets on the top, which I've never had in a nightstand.

[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

And we found the pair that we're obsessed with and they're already in our

[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

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[Nicole]

So Sarah says that one of the surprising things that came out of her with this book was the pov, which what I'm leaning more and more toward this being more epic like Throne of Glass and even Crescent City with more character POVs. Especially with how this will be three volumes. I've seen a lot of fans wondering like do we think one part will be one character and then like, you know, the second book will be somebody else? I personally don't believe that. I don't think that each part or each volume will focus on specific POVs. It feels a little too rigid. And again, this is totally just my speculation, but just from the interview there felt like there was such a flow. I don't see they're having that POV structure in that same way. So I and I think we're going to get more than two love interest POVs. Like we got in Silver Flames. You know, that was Nesta and Cassian. I think that this will be probably like at least four POVs.

Oh at least.

At least. Yeah. Yeah.

I think we're both in agreement that one of the POVs. It definitely has to be Elain. I'll throw out Azriel as well. Are we both in agreement on that? Yes, yes, yes.

Azriel wasn't brought up once in that

[Lexi]

interview, which was weird. Except for Crescent City reference, which is great.

[Nicole]

Like it's crazy how little he was brought up. I do think that but one of the big surprises might be that Nesta is actually a bigger POV than she originally thought she was going to be.

Well, and that brings me back to the Dust Court. Yeah, that as far as my theory brain is concerned, that is primarily Nesta storyline. But still the fact that Sarah was surprised by the POV we're getting. I definitely agree we will be getting Elaine, but I don't consider that a surprise. Tamlin we can cross off which we'll get too soon. I think we'll get some Lucian, maybe a little bit more of him than anticipated. Especially with with the Kosh Day plot and the Band of Exiles plot and Vassa's curse and all of that.

[Lexi]

Oh my gosh. We're back to Son of a pine Tree.

[Nicole]

Yes.

[Lexi]

My son of a pine tree.

[Nicole]

I. I forgot about the Vassa situation with him and possibly her as a love interest. Oh my God. Okay, I'm gonna throw out another one more. That would definitely be a surprise because originally she had more in Novella territory. But let's be real. She could have changed her mind or it could have just flowed naturally.

Absolutely. Well. And she teased about Mora's power of truth and potentially exploring that more which.

[Lexi]

Yes, please. Oh my God.

[Nicole]

And the smirk on her face that she had. And we'll explore that much more when we get into the mass first. Spoilers. But that right there tells me you have been living in Mor's story. I'm also going to throw out Eris, especially if we do get more in a lot more of the story. I could absolutely see Eris. I feel like he just kind of. He has to come along with her own healing journey.

Yeah, I could definitely see more Eris as well.

You mentioned Lucian. I absolutely think he's going to be one. I hope. I want to be in Lucian's pov. I want to be in his mind.

I remember when Feyre was accidentally was

[Lexi]

in his mind and it was sadness. Oh my gosh. I was up with Rue last night at like one in the morning and I listened to that and I jotted it down real quick in my notes

[Nicole]

because like, he has his whole Jesmenda healing to do. He has been thrust into this mating bond with Elaine just as much as she has.

And he has a dad that he doesn't know is his dad. And he's actually probably the heir to

[Lexi]

the Sun Court, not the Sun Court

[Nicole]

to the day Court. I'm so sorry.

[Lexi]

Did we. How did I forget about that? Yes, absolutely.

[Nicole]

So I hope we get more evolutions pov because I also feel like a lot of the fandom is very focused on Azriel and Elaine. And I would love to be opened up to Lucian and what his story is, whether him and Elaine end up together or not. We'll get into that later, but I love idea of exploring him. I definitely could see Gwen being a POV or Emery, especially if you get a more centered storyline. I think you're what you were saying with four POVs. I'm gonna actually expand it. I think we're gonna get closer to like Kingdom of Ash style where it's like eight and I hope. I hope so. I know I've actually kind of been against the, like, multiple POV switches in the past. And I do think that there were elements in Crescent City where it got confusing and it was a little too fast for me.

A little bit whiplash. Yeah.

But for, like, Kingdom of Ash. So we're just coming off of our Toggle fan guides. Like, that was perfectly done because it was like, every single POV felt like it was in an arc, and I could see us leaning back more into that style.

That is exactly what I was gonna say, too. I might have recency bias, but I loved that. From our Throne of Glass reread and our coverage that we just finished up, I would love character POVs like that, and it would give Sarah more opportunity to explore more storylines, character dynamics, and world building. That was something that we kept coming back to when we were finishing up our Acotar deep dive was. Holy moly. There are a lot of loose ends. And not even just loose ends, but, like, mass first connections that are extremely clear and story arcs that are, like, we still have a lot more to explore here, but. And it's all over the. You can see if you're seeing my hands right now, it's like I'm all over the map. Literally, the map of the world. And so just like how in the Throne of Glass books, everybody's everywhere, and you have to have those different character POVs to move the story along. And I love that, and I want her to embrace that for this next Acotar story that we're getting.

I agree completely. I'm gonna throw out another option. I think Feyre could actually be a POV again. We'll get more into what SJM said about Feyre's pregnancy and how she described that just because a woman has a child and a family doesn't suddenly make her story weak. That felt really important and, like, something she's thought about quite a bit. So I could absolutely see us getting Feyre in her mother era, and I just.

[Lexi]

Oh, my God. Thinking about Nyx and Rhys as a dad. Give me more, please. Oh, my God, I love it.

[Nicole]

And then also Cassian and Asriel in their uncle era, seeing them interact with Nyx. And maybe there's some mystery around Nyx getting powers and what those powers might look like. Like, I think Baby Jack Jack and

[Lexi]

little baby Jack J. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, like, actually because of joking, but yes. No, but I think you're so on the money.

[Nicole]

Like, I absolutely see Feyre and Rhys maybe not being storyline A, but B or C. And I love the idea of seeing Them again. Oh, and being in their mind. I miss Feyre. God, I love her.

One person we don't think it will be, and honestly, who we don't think this next story will focus on at all is Tamlin. After the conflict that Sarah feels about whether to give Tamlin a redemption arc and what would have to go into it, we did not get the impression she is exploring him a whole lot at all.

Well, to quote her, she said if I were to ever write more about Tamlin, that to me right there says

[Lexi]

she has not written more about Tamlin.

[Nicole]

And that wasn't in, like, a sneaky way or anything. That was just like, from the heart, it seemed like, at least. Yeah. And honestly, I'm good with it, I think. I don't want to speak for both of us here, but if he is going to keep appearing in the story, he needs to have that time to work on himself and do the hard reflections. And it doesn't seem like the author herself has the patience or, quite frankly, the interest to go through all of that with Tamlin. I'm okay with that. And if he's going to be a bigger character in the story again, then absolutely, let's get a redemption arc that fits his character and does not excuse his past behavior. But he does get to grow into what I genuinely do think he is capable of with being a good person. And Sarah recognizes how fine a line he. She would have to balance. And I just did not get the vibe that she has sunk her teeth into that. And the story itself, it is so much bigger than him.

[Lexi]

She's.

[Nicole]

She's done with him. She wants to keep going on, moving on. Yeah.

Well, and to be quite honest, stepping out of the Nicole the deep diver, Nicole the character analyzer's shoes, and just stepping fully into Nicole the person. I was really relieved hearing that she mentions her friends who have talked to her about abusive relationships they've had, who have left partners that remind them of Tamlin, and they were able to heal through that experience because of Mist and Fury. She asked them point blank, like, if it would feel like a betrayal to have a redemption arc for Tamlin because of how much Feyre's journey helped them heal from their own past. And she mentioned how countless readers have said this to her, too, without getting into it, because, honestly, we touched on it in Mist and Fury, so it doesn't really need to be opened up fully again. It was very difficult for me to analyze Tamlin as someone who he reminded me of my abuser fully, and I didn't recognize until she said the reason I didn't want his redemption arc is because it would feel like a betrayal for the healing that I went through with Feyre. And don't get me wrong, I'm very excited to see other characters and other arcs, and I hope Tamlin figures his shit out. I mean, the last time we saw him, he was roaming around the Supreme Court.

I do have a lot of feelings about how he has been portrayed in the last few books. He's gonna keep being in these books. He's give him a redemption arc or just take him off the board for. For his own sake.

[Lexi]

Literally.

[Nicole]

He's not ruling the spring Court. He's so much so that Baron is thinking about swooping in and taking over because he's just.

[Lexi]

Just walking around as manbear pig.

[Nicole]

Not really. He's just throwing himself a pity party constantly. And these political repercussions and those dynamics, those really interest me. I would be interested in seeing that in a future acotar book. But do I need a character in depth redemption from him? No, I don't. If he has it, great. But I don't want to see it as a reader. I don't want to see it.

And that's fair. And that's absolutely fair. Something that Sarah said that. That stood out to me in relation to her current projects is that I was really surprised to hear she does not have maps or extensive notes or

[Lexi]

a spreadsheet on this universe.

[Nicole]

And specifically, she doesn't have any of this, like, in an organized manner. At least it sounds like about the crossovers that she has created between these three series.

[Lexi]

I was getting stressed out just hearing. I was like, where is Sierra of Unhinged book Talk? Where is our girl with her digitalized map of Charlie from Sunshine, Whatever it's called. It's always sunny in Philadelphia, Nicole. At least you got Charlie right.

[Nicole]

I will give you that.

[Lexi]

But, like, hearing that, I was like, I agree with you. I'm sweating. Like, I'm so happy it works for her.

[Nicole]

I cannot personally fathom that. No, Sarah said that. Yes, of course she does have her notebooks, but the overarching vision is all in her head. And I agree with Alex. I would love to live in Sarah's head for a day. I don't think she gives herself enough credit. She's like, no, it's just about, like, what's for dinner and Cheetos? And it's like, no, ma'. Am. I want to live in your head. I want to go experience what you experience. With these worlds and these characters and all of this.

[Lexi]

Yes.

[Nicole]

My point about this right now, though, is that Sarah gave an example that recently with what she's working on. So I'm going to assume that's part four, but we don't have confirmation. She said that it felt like the cosmic, cosmic force was at work and it was like her subconscious led her down this path and all of the sudden things aligned perfectly where it worked out on a supernatural level. She was like, to the point where she stood up out of her chair was like, oh my God. Like, that didn't come from me. And Sarah, you know, she was like joking about how she has a lot of crystals and she's just like, oh,

[Lexi]

this worked out on a supernatural level.

[Nicole]

So I'm really excited to see what this moment was.

My gut is like, it has to be around the Dust Court. Whether it's.

[Lexi]

It's something I will talk about later

[Nicole]

in Mass First, I just feel like it has to be.

I definitely think it's a maske first thing.

Yes, it definitely has to be a masked first thing. And I just, I feel it in my bones that it's got to be something around the Dust Court and maybe even the Archeron sisters as a whole,

[Lexi]

like, oh my God, yes.

[Nicole]

So we've had a lot of people ask us and the Internet at large if they should read both Throne of Glass and Crescent city series before ACOTAR 6 drops on October 27th. And while we don't know for sure based off of what we know from at least Crescent City, I'm going to assume, yes, these three series all exist in the same universe. And in these later books there are crossovers some way more subtle than others. And it's just first of all, really cool to experience this as a reader and it is fun. But yes, based off of this interview with some of her Mass verse comments and this example about how the stars align, I am going to assume, yes, we readers will get the full ACOTAR 6 reading experience. If we have already read all three

series now, does that make it required reading? I mean, quite frankly, I don't think it's fair to say, yes, that you absolutely 1000% must read 11 other books

[Lexi]

before touching ACOTAR 6.

[Nicole]

Like, if you don't, that's your choice and that's okay. There might be some important details and connections that are made in other books, specifically in the Crescent City world that. That come to fruition in ACOTAR 6. And it might feel like there's some dots missing or that some things might be confusing. So if you want that full picture. Yes, please, please, please do that reading

or listen to fantasy fan girls in our future content.

[Lexi]

Well, do you want to, do you want to go ahead and get into it? No, you go ahead and keep saying

[Nicole]

this and then I'll plug in the rest.

Well, I will say, like Lexi and I are a bit biased sources because we are the people who want, want every single aspect of the picture. I want to know each and every single brushstroke that goes into this massive mass first canvas. And in that case, yes, I do

[Lexi]

recommend reading all of the books, especially Crescent City.

[Nicole]

My God. But like I again, I don't think it's fair to say you have to absolutely read it because what if Crescent City doesn't meld with you?

And exactly.

Do you want to force yourself through 3,000 pages? Maybe not.

Yeah, exactly. Like reading is fun first and foremost. So if you do not find the reading enjoyable, there are plenty of other sources. Yes, including us. Who you will be able to rely on for as much of a full ACADAR 6 experience as possible. Again, this is entirely our own speculation and we will talk a lot more about this in the coming months. Which let's talk about that. We've gotten a lot of FFG related questions around the coverage of Akadar 6 and 7 and eventually 8. So first and foremost, yes, we will absolutely deep dive these books full stop.

[Lexi]

Yes, just expect October to March to be just Acotar City. Absolute Acotar City.

[Nicole]

For those of you who haven't read

[Lexi]

the map, we're just gonna pretend that my book launches somewhere in there in March as well. And I'm just gonna like look at that scheduling later. We're just gonna look at that later. Shouts to you of the chosen. I love you dearly.

[Nicole]

Now if reading that much in prep for ACOTAR 6 stresses you out a little, we've got you covered. We are going to be releasing episodes about everything you need to know before the next Acotar book. Specifically everything you need to know from the Mass verse, especially Crescent City. So if you don't want to reread that series or if you don't want to read that series and you don't mind some spoilers from the Crescent City universe, bada boom. We've got you covered. We will also be releasing recaps, reread schedules and and so much more in the lead up to this huge release.

[Lexi]

Releases back to back.

[Nicole]

And a friendly reminder, we have 11

[Lexi]

months worth of ACOTAR deep dive episodes

[Nicole]

and four Throne of Glass fan guides ready for you right now to jump into. Link to those is in the show notes.

Yes, there is so much mass verse content to start prepping. If you're just getting started with Throne of Glass, then our fan guide episodes are fantastic for you because they're only spoilers kind of like the throughout throughout the whole series. So you can kind of look into all of that there. Oh my gosh, hundreds of hours of Acotar. So much. I'm just so excited. So excited.

All right, let's get into some general reactions or some generalness around the interview because I was actually really surprised with how much we learned about Sarah as a human versus the grilling questions that we saw in the teasers leading up to the interview. I assumed it was going to be a where is this person? What is this person doing for like an hour? But I loved loved getting to see the behind the scenes Sarah, seeing how the different FMCs she's written have influenced her and her journey both directly and indirectly. I know something that really spoke to us both was how she now defines success and how it's no longer just about her books and the success she's had in the publishing world, but now it's instead about how happy she Sarah is.

It came up a few times in the interview about how she is bringing joy into her life, like even on her writing desk and how she has a Labu boo with the sunglasses on it because it brings her joy. And I'll even say like in the interview she was glowing and I could feel the happiness radiating off of her. And I bet you anything the reason that she's able to come back in this manner is because she has been silent for so long and doing her own work. Which I know we're going to keep on talking about here.

Yeah, really quickly I want to note the Labubu because it has been speculated previously that there are Easter eggs on her desk that hint to whatever book she is next writing. And I'm like how does a sunglasses

[Lexi]

Labubu work into this? And I'm like, oh, Cassie is going

[Nicole]

back to the summer court.

[Lexi]

He's going to. I'm leaning towards day court, I'm leaning towards the decor.

[Nicole]

And then that could hint at the

[Lexi]

literature evolution storyline with helion and all that kind of stuff. But I love where your head is at. My head's always with Cassie. What can I say at the end

[Nicole]

of the day going back to this how she defines success. It is about the people around her, her friends and her family, they love her, not her successes.

[Lexi]

And how they would care for her

[Nicole]

just as much as if she was a book author versus if she was a dj, florist, marine biologist, and I love that. And. And she doesn't have to have her drive and her motivation tied to her success, which then leads to that fear of what happens if I lose it. And oh my God. As someone who is very driven by the external, this meant more to me than I could ever explain. Like when her and Alex were talking about when you get something you've always wanted and then suddenly it's the fear of losing it that consumes you because completely like, oh my God, welcome to every single one of my therapy sessions ever.

[Lexi]

Like, that's literally what I talk about all the time and.

[Nicole]

Exactly. You and I both looked at each other during this whole part because we relate so much in our own way with fantasy fangirls. We love, love, love, love what we do with our whole hearts. And we are so incredibly blessed to get to do what we love every single day at work. And fantasy fangirls has taken on a life of its own. And that can feel very difficult to balance. And for our self worth to not be tied to how successful FFG is, there's always a sense of more, more, more and wanting to be worthy of the success and of this community's trust and attention. And that means we can pigeonhole ourselves sometimes where the joy of what we are doing gets lost in the sauce of the everyday, where we're just getting the shit done. Where fear of not being enough can sneak up into the driver's seat and take over before we even realize it. And we always are reminding ourselves to take a moment and enjoy this journey, to celebrate how far we've come. And all the while reminding ourselves that we are Lexi and Nicole outside of ffg and we can be happy because of it. And we deserve to be happy outside of it too. And that just spoke so much to both of us.

Pivoting slightly. One of the things I loved hearing the story behind was her getting published for the first time. She started writing Thrown Glass when she was 16. She didn't get it published until she was 26. She had her parents in her life saying, don't do it like it takes. So it takes a lot to get published and. Yeah, and how she got rejected by all the agents except for one. And all the publishers except for one. And look at where she is now.

Yes, well, and when she was waiting to get, get to have Throne of Glass, get Picked up. She wrote Acotar and Akamaf.

[Lexi]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Like, she's just like, I didn't have anything to do and I just did what I loved, which is writing. She's like, I didn't have a job.

[Lexi]

Like, I was just always waiting to

[Nicole]

hear back from these agents of publishers. And it was always rejections. But I just kept writing.

It was just such a good reminder that things can take their time and that's okay. And just because one door closes, it doesn't mean that suddenly every door is closed. And I don't know that just. That was really beautiful. I'm really happy she talked about that.

I'm so glad we have that as a recording so I can play that back for you sometimes. Nicole. I was actually pretty surprised to learn how much of a pantser SJM is, which means that she lets the story and the characters really guide the way.

I was as well. She mentioned that when she was writing Acotar book one, she was only writing Acata as far as she could see. She called it headlight writing, where she literally was only writing as far as the headlights would show her.

[Lexi]

And she literally did not have wreath blend. Like, I'm sorry, what?

[Nicole]

I will give her this. Like, you can tell how much she did in editing where when she went back after probably finishing under the Mountain and she added the dreams and how the shadow was watching her. And you know how when he walked into the story, she was like, who

[Lexi]

are you, good sir? Just like all of us.

[Nicole]

Like, I. I'm really impressed with how much she went back and added in as little Easter eggs. But I do love how she mentioned like, Crescent City was a passion project for her to just like curse and say shit and fuck and all that kind of stuff during.

[Lexi]

And she then was like, actually, wait, I kind of want to publish this

[Nicole]

and look at what it's become now in the maskeverse. I'm just. I'm so impressed with how much her

[Lexi]

pantsing does seem like plotting.

[Nicole]

Well, that is the power of editing, right?

[Lexi]

That is the power of editing.

[Nicole]

I could not believe that either. That was like a jaw dropping moment. Because yeah, when she was writing it, she's like, I was not expecting like suddenly like this most beautiful man to come through the smoke and it's like, oh, who are you? Who are you? And again, like, this is the early days of when she first drafted Acotar and she was just having fun writing and just kind of seeing where things went. And I just love that. I love the idea of characters and Stories taking you on a journey. I wish my brain worked that way. It doesn'.

[Lexi]

I don't have that level of trust. I don't have that level of.

[Nicole]

I will say this, though, I wonder if that same pants are mentality was also in Throne of Glass because no spoilers. But, like, as we were doing our fan guide episodes, we were like, holy shit. There's so much in the earlier books that comes to fruition later and that didn't seem very pantsy. Well.

And that was actually another thing that they were talking about in the interview was Sarah was really stressing how long she has been with these characters. She's like, you all. I've had a lot of time to be with these characters and in these worlds and all these things. Like, again, I can only imagine how packed her brain is with all of this. And so even though she did start writing Throne of Glass when she was 16, she did end up rewriting it

quite a bit, which, actually, I found out that she originally had Throne of Glass. Like, almost. Almost double the word count. Like, it was a much longer book. And really quick pulling back the curtain on the publishing industry, when you are a debut author, having a long book, especially a long fantasy book, is a very easy way of getting pushed aside to the next person. A lot of publishers want to take a lower risk, which means a financially lower risk, which also means a lower page count. And this is speaking very broadly, obviously, that there's many, many, many stipulations and differences and all that kind of stuff, exceptions and all that. But what she did is she took Throne of Glass and slashed it in half and basically rewrote Book One so it was way, way, way shorter and it became what it was. And that is so impressive.

[Lexi]

I love that she mentioned she wrote the first few drafts on floppy disks. There's a word I haven't heard in a long time.

[Nicole]

The ultimate SA icon.

[Lexi]

For all you children who don't know, that's what the save icon is. It's a floppy disk taking a hard left pivot.

[Nicole]

One of the things that she talks about with what's a box? She's been put in as a writer, as a female writer in fantasy specifically. And she discussed how. Oh, I'm gonna get heated. Oh, I love this. She discussed how a lot of people think that what she writes is smut. And at the end of the day, that's not what her fans come up to her and talk to her about. They're not like, oh, my God, that scene in the dining room. I got off so hard with it. No, like, sex is always tied to the plot with these books. Like, yes. Lexi and I played that game during Silver Flames. Like, is this a plot or is this not?

Which we were actually very surprised. Most of it was plot. Like, until kind of like there was like just like one quick little stretch where it was like, okay, now they're just having fun right now.

[Lexi]

But everything else was for the plot. Yes.

[Nicole]

Well then like going to chapter 55, like, that was definitely for the plot and like all of definitely for the plot. And it's like at the end of the day, when it comes to a woman writing just period, but specifically writing in fantasies, the second you tap into sex, it suddenly dismisses the rest of the work because it's suddenly all about sex. And as Sarah J. Maas puts it, it suddenly devalues the work when it's like, what the fuck? Sex is a huge part of the human and experience.

Like, we are all in existence because of sex.

Yes.

[Lexi]

Thank you, the birds and the bees. Has anyone told us? Spoiler alert. I hope you've gotten that talk if you're listening to this R rated podcast.

[Nicole]

But people roll their eyes so often at the things that bring women joy, which for a lot of us who this is definitely a primarily driven women demographic when it to comes it comes to ACOTAR and 4th wing and all of these books that Lexi and I have covered specifically on the show, she's infuriated that the second it brings a woman joy, it's dismissed. And oh my God, I remember Rebecca Yarrow said something very similar. And I'm just like, I'm so happy we have these powerhouse women in the fantasy genre. I'm not even going to call it Romantasy because like, these books are fantasy. Like, they are fantasy. Romantasy is a sub genre of fantasy, which means they are fantasy. And I love that we have these powerhouse writer women who are saying this and I'm just like, say it louder

[Lexi]

for the people in the back.

[Nicole]

Thank you so much. And I know they're one of many, but they do have very large platforms and it's nice to have them be so vocal about this. Yes, exactly.

Like all of this right here, everything you're saying, Nicole. Yes, these books have sex, but they are so much bigger than those. Literally few pages or chapters. Like, yes, I. Somebody did the math. I think it was fourth wing or something like that. And it was like literally 5% of the book or something like that.

Stupid, stupid little.

And I'll. I'll even Say too. We've experienced this with fantasy fan girls. Some people think all we do is just talk about smutty books into a microphone when that is such a tiny fraction of what these books and what our conversations are all about. And it's everything else around the set sex that makes it so empowering. And by minimizing the real impact, the mental health journey that these characters go on, the experiences that they are going through that we all relate to in our own way or find joy and emotion from these epic plots, it is minimizing women and our joy and what we think matters. Just because there's some sex.

Like, God forbid, what is it? Rebecca said? Rebecca Yarrow said, God forbid a woman have an orgasm on the page and then suddenly a man is like, this is spawn.

[Lexi]

Like, seriously, what are you talking about? Well, dare you double standard makes me

[Nicole]

want to pull my hair out because you bet your booty. There is sex in Game of Thrones.

[Lexi]

I have read it.

[Nicole]

There is sex in Game of Thrones.

[Lexi]

Sex position was designed because of Game of Thrones.

[Nicole]

Yes, but there no one, no one in their right mind would categorize it as romantic. How the fuck is Throne of Glass different in simplest terms because it's written by a woman. I feel your rage too, sjm. And this is a topic we will always continue shouting from the rooftops. Literally. I can't wait to call out what fourth wing is really about to an entire arena at an NBA game. Because this dismissal that it's just smut is point blank wrong.

Well, literally, while we were at the AVS game, the Avalanche game at for fourth Wing, we were in the crowd and we were like way up in the nose the of bleeds. And people were talking about, like, around us. Oh, like, you know, I think my girlfriend read it. It's kind of smutty.

[Lexi]

And Lexi and I both went, well, oh, we educated those gentlemen.

[Nicole]

Yes.

I want to give them major gold stars because they were very susceptible to listening to us. And even a few of them wrote it down. And like, we're like, I want to check this out.

Yeah. They were like, wait, like, there's dragons and war. They're like, really cool.

[Lexi]

Yeah, we agree.

[Nicole]

And it's just this steam standard that it's just like, oh, well, just because she finds a man hot, suddenly it's smut. And it's like off.

And like, I just love how Sarah defends the genre and what these stories are truly about. Female empowerment, self discovery, human real connection and impact. And just. Thank you for sharing for Having that conversation during that Call Her Daddy podcast, because that is something that is really near and dear to a lot of us, where we obviously have a lot

[Lexi]

of feelings about it. Well, then I'll.

[Nicole]

I'll even expand, as Sarah did, where it's like, she also really wants to talk about the female real experience. Like, if you're on your way to Mordor and you get your period, what happens? Are you just walking through the cramps? Are you bleeding out with Gollum just crawling right next to you? Like, what are you doing? And again, no spoilers. But it really brought to light like. Like, oh, those scenes and thrown a glass, like, immediately. I know a lot of us thought of that. And it's like, I'm so grateful she's talking about those experiences because, yeah, where do women go to the bathroom? Where do you get pads?

[Lexi]

Or do you get pads?

[Nicole]

Or do you just bleed out? What do you do?

Or in Acotar, once, I think it was in Silver Flames that. Or maybe it was shot Frost and Starlight anyway, but after they've transitioned into Fae, their periods are different and they experience them differently and it is very, very painful. And that was something that Feyre had to experience that Nesta then experienced on her own. And like, when I read that, I was like, oh my God, I never would have thought about that. Yeah.

Yes.

[Sponsor Voice 3]

Oh.

[Nicole]

So we also got a non update on the TV show for Acotar. Sarah has gotten her media rights back for everything. And she shared that her focus right now is on her books. She wants to have a hand in the film adaptation and she wants to make sure it's right and represented. She sees these film adaptations as extensions of her world and she wants to be in charge of it. She loves TV and movies and wants to be part of the process, have her hands in it, and yes, have control over how this world will come to life off the pages and outside of her head. She does not want the adaptations to be someone else's take on her world's characters and stories. And I'll be honest, that is my understanding of what happens with film adaptations. So for her to want to be as involved as she is insisting on being. And yes, there have been rumors that she is difficult to work with, but she's explaining exactly why right here. I'm not surprised that it's just not a focus these days. Right now she's. She's excited about her books again. Right.

Well, and something I'll throw out is like, because we've talked to a few other authors who are getting film, film adaptations, whether it's TV or. Or movie. And some of them are wanting a little bit of their toe in it. Some of them are wanting full hands off. And then there Sarah here who's like, I want every single aspect and I want to highlight that. Like, I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Oh, absolutely. And yet I do think that what she's saying here is very commendable with this is an extension of her work I know you and I have talked about. When it comes especially to the fourth wing adaptation, it's like it is a completely different version of the work. And when you and I do analyze it, we want to look at it as both an adaptation and also a standalone work. Work on its own.

Exactly.

And I think going into different adaptations, like a graphic novel, like a TV show, like, it's important to have those expectations as a fandom. And one thing that I do really commend Sarah here for is the fact that when that does happen, if that does happen, that's not how she views it. She views it as a one to one, basically. And I'm curious how that will turn out, if it ever does, was because we are so used to the other version of it.

Exactly. And Sarah did also mention how music would be a huge part of it. And she's okay with any film adaptations taking however long it takes. Like, for instance, she has not come across anyone who she feels would be right for Rhys, and she doesn't want to force anything. She's like, I don't want to choose someone who does not feel right to me. So, friends, I think that for the time being, we can all shout out shelf, any hope left for a film adaptation? Personally, I think it's great for her that she's focusing on her books. And she clearly has extremely high expectations for what an adaptation would look like. I still vote for a Throne of Glass TV series above all else because I think it'd be bigger than Game of Thrones. Maybe someday when Slash, if Sarah is ready to fully dive into the film side of bringing stories to life. But I'm not gonna hold my breath. And that's okay.

I agree completely. One to one, agree. I'm really proud of her for getting her rights back. And I know I mentioned this when we were watching it. It was like, this sounds very Taylor Swift getting her catalog back coded. The way she was talking and the way she said, maybe someday I'll. I'll dive more into this. It sounds like it was quite a saga that was getting her rights back for this. And I also will say when Acotar was bought by Hulu, it was not Acotar. I can only imagine the price tag

[Lexi]

on that rights right now for either

[Nicole]

Acotar, Throne of Glass or even Crescent City. Although I doubt we're going to see Crescent City before we see either Acotar or Throne of Glass, mainly because it

[Lexi]

would also be way more expensive. That's so expensive.

[Nicole]

So expensive. I also do love that at the end of the day she's keeping everything close to her chest and very much in her control. Again, there is no right way to do it and that is one of the reasons we all fell in love with her work in the first place. So I'm excited to see what happens

[Lexi]

and I'm not not getting the binoculars out anytime soon.

[Nicole]

So before we get into Acotar book specific discussions, let's quickly address one of Alex's questions. Quote We've all seen the now deleted Twilight of the Gods Pinterest board. What's going on there? So for our listeners who are like what the heck is this Pinterest board? The backstory is back in 2015, SJM confirmed she had two work in progresses. One was Crescent City and the other was Twilight of the Gods in her Today interview at the start of 2024. That was the last interview she did before this one here with Call Her

Daddy and it was even like minuscule.

[Lexi]

That was a yes interview compared to a two hour almost interview with Alex Cooper.

[Nicole]

Oh but back during that interview in 2024, Sarah said, quote, there's one book that I'm going to be writing after this next Acotar book that I'm very excited about. I'm not going to say what world it's in. I'm not going to say anything thing. She did go on to say that it is a story that's been brewing in the back of my mind for a long time. I think it's going to be very emotional book for me to write just in terms of the world I'll be writing and the characters that might pop up. So friends, the now deleted Pinterest board has led some people to think that all three worlds, Acotar, Crescent City and Throne of Glass will all be coming together in a massive crossover of some kind in this, you know, like Twilight of the Gods. But. But according to Sarah, now she answered Alex's question that Twilight of the Gods was a story that was just like Crescent City, AKA a fun project for her. She said she always has manuscripts and other stories in her head. She has three or four full books for other series on her computer, and she doesn't know if it'll ever see the light of day. Sometimes she shares, sometimes she doesn't. I love that when she's done with her crazy writing editing days, she just goes to write more. So my takeaway is we can shelf this concept, at least for the time being. As she continues focusing on this story with Acotar and for us not to put too much into the Twilight of the Gods Pinterest board specifically. Yes, we can be rest assured that she has a lot of story ideas, but quite frankly, that's just not relevant right now. And I again, I just love that this is her way to relax and have fun.

Yes.

Okay. Basically, she told us all, we're thinking too much into this.

[Lexi]

She said that multiple times in so many different ways.

[Nicole]

Yes.

[Lexi]

I'm like, sarah, that's our jobs. Don't put us out of employment, please.

[Nicole]

So we are about to get into our Acotar specific question spoilers. Friendly reminder. There will be no spoilers in this section for Thrown a Glass or Crescent City. We are only talking about Acotar. Let's start off with one question that we weren't really expecting, but it was so emotionally felt by the Internet and this community addressing the discourse around Feyre's pregnancy, her loss of autonomy with the choices that Rhys made, and her death more and more and more. We talked about this a lot in our Silver Flames coverage about looking through Feyre and Rhys's point of view when we were covering certain chapters that were really difficult. But oh my God, to have this immediate look into her mind and her experience, what a deeper perspective we got. The fact that she mentioned how it really stuck with her that her son and her should be dead if it was a hundred years ago because of her birthing experience. I mean, looking at Feyre.

[Sponsor Voice 3]

Wow.

[Nicole]

What? I know we're gonna get all into it, but that is something that really stuck with me where it's like, of course she wrote it the way that she did.

I cried a lot during this part when Sarah really talked in the real, raw, scary experience of pregnancy and giving birth. I hated being pregnant too. I love my children, but I too lived in this constant state of fear. And it probably didn't help. That was right around Covid times too. But truly, there can be such a culture of fear around new mothers because yes, it is scary and we all just want to do what's right for the baby. But it Translates to this fear of what we're supposed to eat and how much anything we put in our body, including medicine, doing enough of this, cutting out that, constantly monitoring for and always playing through your head. Is the baby inside of me okay? And there's this responsibility that you have to make sure it's okay when you already are feeling so out of control. And this is when I started to lose myself because I didn't feel like I mattered anymore. And it was all about the baby. And again, I love my babies so much. But I lost myself when I was pregnant because it wasn't me anymore. And I had a traumatic labor and delivery with my son. Very, very traumatic. And we would both be dead, too, if it wasn't for modern medicine. And that was something, too, that. That I would think about. Oh, God, that thought about that so much in the early days about how we would be dead. And it is something that sticks with you, definitely. And there was one nurse for me, too, which also. I really hope that intern heard this interview so much that she had. But I had one nurse who truly listened to me when I was going through that really scary experience, who helped me through the panic that nothing is going according to plan, and I'm a type A person. I need my clothes, plans to. And she was in my corner to help me through how terrifying it was. And that individual sticks with you. Yeah, forever. And I just. Oh, my gosh. I just. I felt hugged through all of. When she was talking about that, because I just. I needed to hear that as a mother who has experienced similar things. Yeah, well.

And I don't feel like she said this outright, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna throw out. The subtext is I feel like Feyre was the pregnancy or the pregnant mom she wanted to be. Feyre was glowing. She was happy regardless of what was happening, at least all the things that she knew about. And she was just overjoyed to be bringing a life into this world. And while Rhys was the fear that Sarah J. Maas said she had around having another kid or that she was actually having. And she channeled a lot of that fear into Rhys. And as she mentioned later, he's allowed to make. Make bad decisions. Big asterisk here and learn from it. I know a lot of people when we recovering silver flames were like, well, why are you excusing Rhys? But you're not excusing Tamlin. This is why he's learning from it, and he's actively changing it. Yes, he's 500 years old, but as Sarah J. Maas said he's never had a mate. He's never been, you know, married. He's never been in this situation. He's never had a pregnant wife before. He made a bad call from a place of love, but he reflected. And that's another thing I think we're going to see in ACOTAR 6. Like, the way that she described it, I don't know, it felt like she was. Maybe we're not gonna be in Rhys's pov, but I definitely feel like we're gonna see some kind of aftermath of their relationship as a result of this.

And I think too, for us, during Silver Flames was we. I admit we didn't get a whole lot of how he did learn from it, because, again, it wasn't their story that we were all focusing on. But I do think, and I will say this too, I hope that in the next book we do get to see that. I'm not gonna call it a redemption arc, because I don't think it was, like, quite that intense, but apology arc.

[Lexi]

Apology arc.

[Nicole]

A lesson learned arc. That's a good way of putting it. Yes, a lesson learned arc. Right. And I think that it will help us see Rhys. He's. I say human, but you all know

[Lexi]

what I mean by that, you know?

[Nicole]

And also, Sarah was saying, like, yes, he did make a really bad choice.

Moving to the fact that she went through such a traumatic birth and felt like she had no control over her body, it put a lot into the light when it came to a storyline that a lot of people felt like, oh, it's just another pregnancy trope. But I love that she didn't apologize for putting it in. I really love that she didn't do that. In fact, I love the fact that. That, you know, we. We do attach pregnancy tropes to something where it's like, meh. But the fact that she said, when a woman becomes a mom, it's not a weakness. And I do think that's all something we. We do know. Very, very true to our heart. But the fact that she said that when she became a mom, it was when she learned the most. It was when she became the most who she is rooted. She stood up to her for herself more than she ever had before.

[Lexi]

That's real life shit.

[Nicole]

And just. And going back just because you become a mom, and I'm saying this as someone who is not a mom, so please take that with a grain of salt, but I'm looking at you, Lex, like, just because you are become a mom, you Become stronger. I mean, I've seen you become the strongest, most beautiful version of yourself as a mom.

Thank you. And yes, I was crying and nodding along to all this part because.

Because it's true.

It's absolutely true. And I fundamentally changed when I became a mom. We were even talking about my Enneagram.

Totally changed.

Yeah, like, but like, that's obviously like I fundamentally changed. And while I'm definitely still working through a lot of self doubt and a lot of things, I am very proud of the person who I changed into and the person who I want to be for my kids and for myself and for my family. And yeah, it's it. Again, that was just a part that really, really spoke to me. And I have actually always appreciated Feyre's journey. And it's even in Frost and Starlight when she was realizing that she wanted to be a mother. Like, we really defended all of that.

Yes.

And this right here leans into that. And I'm excited for what's going to be next for her and Rhys and little Nyx in the next book installment moment.

I absolutely think her Rhys and Nyx is going to be a storyline, like I was saying earlier, not plot A, but maybe plot B or C. And I really hope so because yes, their epic storyline around Hybern and the war, it's over. But they are still high lord and lady and they still have issues. They're still parents that what does that day to day look like? Like Sarah was saying. And again, I just keep going back to how much you feel like she's thought about this in the interview. And something she said, quote, there are things from that meaning the pregnancy that will play out. And that made my ears perk up as to, oh, what are we going to see?

I can't wait to see Rhys in dad mode. Especially now that he's learned his lesson from the big mistake he made in Silver Flames.

Okay, so this is actually total speculation, but I'm going to take a hard pivot. Do you think we could see a Nesta pregnancy in these books? There was actually. There was no conversation that even hinted to that. So this is absolutely a crack theory. What do you think?

No, I could see it being a decision that they make, kind of like Rhys and Feyre in Frost and Starlight, like maybe toward the end. But I feel like Nesta has a lot more that she personally has to achieve for herself and she's excited about this long life that they have now. And I don't like Feyre because of the war and because of Rhys dying. That is where she really felt this need to do it now kind of feeling. And I don't think that Nessa has had that same experience, you know, like they, they've had their own trauma, but you know what I mean? And so I think that again, it'll be focusing more on like the Dusk Court cough, cough, cough, before they truly settle down and start a family. That's my theory.

I agree, I agree.

[Lexi]

I just had to throw it out there.

[Nicole]

Just.

Okay. Speaking of Nesta, when it came to Riding Silver Flames, Sarah J. Maas really opened up about her experience with it it. And she mentioned how she's channeled herself and her own experiences into her writing before, specifically around like Air of Fire and Accorded Mist and Fury. But Silver Flames was the first time she really understood consciously, oh, this is me and this is what I'm going through. I am going through it with this character actively. She talked about how she was in copy editing for Kingdom of Ash while pumping, getting breast milk on pages, recovering from a C section from hell in a complete frenzy. She started having this overwhelming sensation that something awful was going to happen. All of her success would implode, the other shoe would drop.

[Lexi]

I mean, you and I have had these. Yeah, seriously, we have a stock of

[Nicole]

fear all the time. Like we were saying earlier about the success and fear driving. And I can only imagine being newly postpartum, recovering from a very traumatic birthday, Earth juggling three book releases, including Kingdom of Ash, which is the end of an epic series. And all the pressure that is just being Sarah J. Maas. And then to get these panic attacks and fall into this low point, it would be so, so difficult.

Well, she mentioned how this dark place got to a point where she was starting to scare herself. And that is when she realized, I need to go to therapy. Because she looked at her son and she said, I want to be here for him. I want to fight for him, him. And all that Nesta went through in A Court of Silver Flames was Sarah channeling her own energy, her own journey into that therapeutic moment with Nesta, through her own therapy journey as well. And as she said, Nesta was in a hole, SJM was in a hole. And quote, we dug our way out of it together. Oh, God, that's so beautiful. At the end of the book, Nesta's not healed by any means. She's still a work in progress, just as we all are. But I love how she also highlighted that it's not just. Just Josh or Cassian. That was like the healing Saving grace. It was also the friends that she made along the way with Gwen and Emory. And that is a direct process of healing. I know this is something you and I talk about rather frequently with our very close knit friend group that we love and cherish so much. And this is one of the first times we've really had that type of friend group that feels like our Gwen and Emory and who loves us for who we are, not our successor, not fantasy fangirls. And that, that, that has been a concept that has been just so beautiful for us to experience.

This was another part of the interview that had me crying. I. I don't cry during things like

[Lexi]

what in the world. I was just crying in this interview. Brett was our wonder, like shouts to my husband because we were over at my house. He was on both rude duty and also bringing us cookies and refilling our champagne. He brought us Thai food and then, then he brought Lexi a box of tissues.

[Nicole]

But oh my God, Silver Flames and Nessa's journey are deeply personal to me. I've been very vocal about that. Our deep dive of that book was like my own therapy. And when Sarah described that she had her own scene, hiking and crying at a lake, and then she envisioned Nesta there too. That scene is one of the most impactful scenes that I have ever read. When we were covering the lake scene for our podcast episode, we actually had to pause recording because I needed a little bit. I needed to collect myself, I needed to work through some emotions and all of that. And it was a lot. There were a lot of tears. It was very emotional and again, very deeply personal. And to hear Sarah's journey through all of this, it makes me want to cry all over again because I feel it so much too. And to be honest, I've recently really been struggling with my mental health to the point where this past December, I broke. I felt worthless and I had regular panic attacks. And the people close to me, including Nicole, were very genuinely concerned. And I started this year, like in 2026, just telling myself, like, I have to dig myself out of this hole for my kids, for myself, and for this life that I want to live, but I don't know how. And this is not who I want to be or who I know I can be. And I am actively working on myself with the help of therapy now and anxiety medication and communication with my support system them so I can be present and happy and someone who I am really proud of. And again, this just really hit close to home for me. When Sarah brought up mental health journeys and the meaning of success and happiness in this interview. Thank you so much for supporting us here at Fantasy Fangirls. We will get right back to the episode after a quick word from our sponsors.

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[Nicole]

Actar6 let's go into some of the

[Lexi]

hard hitting questions for this book. Is Elaine rejecting the mating bond with Lucian?

[Nicole]

One of the things Cassara is Sarah and she's obviously holding information very close to her chest. Of course it's her baby, so I'm going to analyze the the shit out

[Lexi]

of her body language. As a result, she took a deep

[Nicole]

breath and she darted her eyes away. Which I've done quite a bit of research on what that looks like. And as someone who's done research in my background that I've done, when someone typically darts their eyes away, it's because they want to be either. They're thinking through very carefully how they want to answer. And so I'm assuming that she's thinking

[Lexi]

very carefully how she wants to answer this question.

[Nicole]

But then she says how Elaine has her own trauma and shit that she's going through. I mean, yeah, she was transformed into a whole new body with a whole new life expectancy and then suddenly surprise. You're basically forcibly married to someone who is involved in sending you into the cauldron and betraying her. Like I Lucian. I love Lucian. I love Lucian so much. He was working with Tamlin because he thought that that was what was right. And Tamlin and Lucian are definitely guilty of sending Nesta and Elaine into the cauldron because of what they did with Ianthe and Hybert and all of those things.

Well, even Lucien says to Feyre at one point, I didn't know I was the villain in your story. And I think that line really says a lot. And I think that's going to be a bit of a common theme as we do start exploring Elaine.

Well, and I think that's going to be a common theme as we started exploring Lucian more. He's with the band of exiles and he's going to have to work through his own. Am I the villain? Like, is he going to be resentful? Is he going to be angry that this is the direction his life took? Is he going to. To throw himself a pity party? Like, we just genuinely don't know. And I hope we get to find that out. So, going back to Elaine and the mating bond, what does it look like to explore the concept of, quote, free will in a mating bond? And what does that look like? Does nature get it wrong sometimes? And as a writer, that makes her very interested to explore with Feyre and Nesta. Nature picked right. And then, then Sarah J. Maas immediately shut her lips and Alex changed the subject, which, as you and I know as interviewers, the second our interviewee has that kind of body language where it's like, oh, shit, I shouldn't have said something. It is our job to jump in and change the subject to something that they.

[Lexi]

I'm just totally giving this away. So if you ever see us doing this, well, here you go. But that to me tells me, holy shit. Hold on. There's a lot here.

[Nicole]

Well, and also, friends, this is an edited version that we saw.

[Lexi]

Yeah, there's a lot that's on the cutting room.

[Nicole]

Room floor.

I'm not saying that Alex knows, like, oh my gosh, like, all the secrets, but I could definitely see Sarah be like, I can't say anymore. I need you to keep going.

[Lexi]

I need to change the subject.

[Nicole]

I think that there's definitely an element where I. Oh, God, I can't believe we're going back to this.

[Lexi]

I see this as two different outcomes.

[Nicole]

There's the outcome of, like you've been saying throughout basically our entire ACOTAR coverage, which was, what does the mating bond look like if nature got it wrong, but you get to choose each other

anyway, where they end up together despite the mating.

[Lexi]

Yes.

[Nicole]

There's the other side of it where that could have very easily been a. What happens when nature gets it wrong? And Azriel is What's right?

[Lexi]

So I'm right back where. I mean, did we really think we

[Nicole]

were gonna get anything with the ship wars here? I might not have been optimistic about

[Lexi]

three books, but I was pessimistic enough about this.

[Nicole]

I do think one thing that we

[Lexi]

can agree on that we're both optimistic

[Nicole]

about is this cements that Elaine is going to be a major POV or a major plot in the next book. Yes, yes, absolutely.

And I think that her own emotional journey will be a major plot point.

Plot. A, yes.

And how she rediscovers herself will be complemented by a romance that best serves her character development. Or even romances. I'm not saying the same time necessarily, but hey, if that's what you want

[Lexi]

to do, get your girl.

[Nicole]

As long as everybody is consensual. And what I. Yeah, but I'm sticking to my theory that SJM is going to explore the idea of Elaine and Lucian ending up together, despite the mating bond versus it drawing them together. Like Sarah said, Lucian is very closely connected to Elaine's trauma of becoming a Fae. And I think part of her journey will have to be forgiving him in his role for that. And in order to do that, she has to do some heavy personal development for herself first. First where she has to accept who she is before she can really forgive him.

Well, I think a trope that we could absolutely see next book is forced proximity. I mean, we know that there's a whole kosher plot on the continent. So I could see a world in which Lucien, Elaine and maybe Vassa have to go to the continent and Lucian and Elaine being forced together in that way it forces them to work through their trauma together and. Or there Elaine specifically with Lucian being so deeply tied to it, I could absolutely see that being part of it. I think it would be. I trust Sarah J. Maas to do that in a very careful way where it's not like kiss.

See, like the thing is they've kind of already had force proximity though, and it didn't work.

[Lexi]

Well, did Lucian really?

[Nicole]

Well, yeah, he did try.

She has not done the work herself yet.

That's true. And I. Well, okay, so then in that case, do you think that Azriel is going to be part of like kind of how Cassian was part of Nesta's healing journey Journey. And then there might be a twist where it's like, I've done the healing work, but do we work together or do we work together?

If that's the case, I might need to give Azriel a Hug? Actually, no.

[Lexi]

Because then Gwen.

[Nicole]

Because Gwen. But then. Okay, so I'm gonna bring in a wild card here, Vassa. Because, again, we speculate a lot that there is something between Vassa and Lucian. And I wonder if one of the povs that she's surprised by is, like, Vassa and, like, that whole plot line with, again, Koshchei and her curse. And I know we joke about some of the pine tree, but you all, there is an actual, like, Russian folklore

[Lexi]

that is very closely tied to all of this that we really need to pay attention to.

[Nicole]

So. Okay, then. I do think that there's a world in which Elaine actually ends up with no one. And I do, too. I'll throw out Asriel and, like, if we're pairing people off. Azriel and Gwen and Lucian and Assa, and then Elaine gets to be her own person, and she's never really Supreme

Court because Tamlin's gone.

Well, Tamlin's not. Never mind. Not.

[Lexi]

By the way,

[Nicole]

I love this idea that there is a found love between Lucien and Elaine, despite the mating bond. And I think one of the reasons we both lean more towards wanting that as part of the next Acotar installment is because three sisters with three brothers, three bat boys feels a little too perfect. And also, Azriel. I love Azriel and Gwen. I just feel like they. They make a lot of sense together. But I also. We haven't been in Elaine's POV yet,

[Lexi]

so we have the right to change our minds is what I will say. Yes, absolutely.

[Nicole]

And this is all great stuff. We can explore more before October.

[Lexi]

We're never done talking about this stuff.

[Nicole]

All right.

[Lexi]

We could beat that horse dead until the cows come home. But let's talk about feeling. Okay, where did Bryaxis go?

[Nicole]

Quick, tldr on who Bryaxis is and what happened here. Bryaxis is a creature of nightmares that resides beneath the library in the Night Court. A long time ago, someone locked Briaxis under this library using very strong wards. No one knows this monster's true form because we know that embodies whatever it encounters fears most in Acabor. Feyre makes makes a deal with Bryaxis because it's with her, AKA her Bryaxis.

[Lexi]

Because apparently Briaxis is a she.

[Nicole]

I love that fear itself is a woman.

[Lexi]

Oh, that makes me so happy. My feminine rage just gets off on that.

[Nicole]

Living nightmares indeed.

[Lexi]

I need to get fair and wild. You just released a new line of girl dinner, and it's a praying mantis eating her partner. It's like girl dinner. I need to get that. And that's for my feminine rage.

[Nicole]

Briaxis era. Anyway, Feyre has Amren remove the wards on Bryaxis that are holding her and then offers her freedom in exchange for fighting on their side during the war. In exchange, Briaxes wants sunlight, moonlight and the stars. So why the question, where is Briaxis? After the war in Echoar, Bryaxis vanished.

[Lexi]

As far as we know, she's floating around Prythia and scaring the shit out of her. Who knows who? Hopefully Baron, maybe Tamlin, probably tormenting people,

[Nicole]

driving off their fear again, maybe.

[Lexi]

Hopefully those two.

[Nicole]

Maybe I shouldn't say Tamlin. Or maybe she was captured. We don't entirely know.

[Lexi]

Race and Feyre have attempted to hunt her down. And I will give them this. They're like, where's Bryaxis? Let's have someone go on it. Like, they're not trying the most hard.

[Nicole]

They also had other things on their plate.

[Lexi]

And this is much to Cassie in sweet dismay.

[Nicole]

So to respond with where Bryaxis is, Sarah says, where do you think she went? Where do you think fear goes? So she was really emphasizing this concept of where do we think fear goes?

[Lexi]

Yes, more. More. At Frost and Starlight.

[Nicole]

Remember when she sees the shadow, when she's. When she's in her estate with Elia, like her horse. What if that was Bryaxis? And it's kind of like foreshadowing that Mor's dark past, her fear of her family, her fear of her past of Eris, is going to come back to haunt her.

Maybe I did not get that impression, but maybe. Maybe.

[Lexi]

I think we talked about it during our acafast.

[Nicole]

Probably.

[Lexi]

Probably. That was a fever dream as far as two episodes.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

So, like, I've been thinking that maybe Braxis is like, within some thing or some wife. Like that. It's like a symbolic, you know, like, where do you think fear goes? And it probably ultimately, though, does not matter in the grand scheme of things. That was kind of my impression that I got from Sarah, and she was speculating it, like, on the spot about, like, well, where do you think fear would go? And just kind of like volleying the question back to us readers and leaving it up to us to decide. That was my impression.

[Lexi]

That was also mine as well. But I'm still gonna go with she is somewhere tormenting Baron, because that just makes me happy.

[Nicole]

And Sarah wonders why, where Alex finds her questions she's like, look at this. It's like, oh God.

[Lexi]

It's probably oh God. Who thinks of these things? Us, Sarah. We do. Okay, next question. How do the fae get to the House of Wind? Speaking of questions that we've had, we've talked about so much. Well, Sarah said we will find out the scream. I scrumped ACOTAR 6 will most likely give us the. Or 6, 7 or 8 will give give us the answers of where she's given us the things we need to know.

[Nicole]

The funniest thing is that's like nobody

[Lexi]

else cares but us. I do. Where's my stair mask?

[Nicole]

I love it so much because we were hung up on how all the fae get up to the House of Wind without bat wings. They always have like the Starfall balls up there and whatnot. I say Starfall balls. You know what I mean. The Starfall celebrations. And Nesta was on those 10,000 steps when everyone was arriving. So we know they didn't use that entrance and their fancy Starfall gowns. So imagine we just went under the impression that there's like an uber Bat

[Lexi]

boy sort of situation walking up 10,000 steps.

[Nicole]

I don't even remember how many Empire State buildings that is. I did some kind of math during it. But like in heels.

[Lexi]

I could barely walk up five steps in heels. Like that sounds like hell.

[Nicole]

So another question that Alex tried was what is Rhysand's last name? While Sarah would not share what his last name is, she insisted he is one of a kind. I got the impression that he does not have a last name though. I guess we'll continue this conversation in massive spoilers.

[Sponsor Voice 3]

Well.

[Nicole]

And when Alex ask if it even matters Rhysand's last name, Sarah J. Maas goes no. So I. I guess there we kind of have it. Maybe it's like it doesn't matter now and she might throw it in later. Like we were talking earlier. She does doesn't plot out something with

one and it just ended up being like that.

I just love her. Like he's one of a kind. Yes, he is.

Speaking of names, what is the King of Hybern's actual name? So she was joking like Fred Frank as a callback to an earlier joke. That is not a sexy name. Justice for the F names, apparently. Franks of this world, you are sexy too do. But this did come off as Sarah acting like it doesn't really matter. Point is that it's just not a sexy name in her eyes that whatever the King of Hybern's name Is. But then SJM did her SJM thing and she did say, quote, that might be something that is discussed. I'm guessing that my pessimistic guess is that's just a disclaimer she's giving just in case it eventually pops up. But I am in the camp of she's saying it doesn't matter.

I'm also right there with you.

Yes.

Next,

[Lexi]

the bane of our existence in the ACOTAR Book 1 coverage, why is there a pool of starlight in the Spring Court? Is it a portal?

[Nicole]

This is before the prison started being.

[Lexi]

In case you're like, why was this asked?

[Nicole]

There was a huge theory or theories in the Acotar fandom around why the literal heck, there is a pool of starlight in the Spring Court, a pool that Tamlin has no idea why it's there or where it came from. People, us included, wonder if it was a portal to the Night Court. This especially fed the theory that Rhys's sister was Tamlin's mate. And how they bounced back and forth to each other that way and they were able to, you know, get their goods that way. Or if they're the lost spirits of the Starfall and that's how they ended up there. Or, and this is one of my favorites that you pulled out, Lex. What if it's a reference to the Dadlin and how they used to drink the magic of the land like fine wine and this was like a concentrated pool to, you know, fuel them up on Powerade style.

[Lexi]

Well, Sarah J. Maas kind of crushed

[Nicole]

this, kind of with a quote. Who thinks of these things again?

[Lexi]

Us, Sarah.

[Nicole]

Us. We do. And then she said, I'm not answering that.

[Lexi]

My PTSD from my Rebecca yarn.

[Nicole]

But then she was like, hmm. But I also take this as a not write out. No. But also definitely not a yes. Maybe it's something she didn't really think of and originally wanting to write. And now she's like, oh, well, maybe

[Lexi]

I could come back to that at some point.

[Nicole]

So she's not wanting to pigeonhole herself, which I honestly, I get that.

[Lexi]

And yet I'm kind of like, do you know how many hours of work went into that episode? Oh, my God, I wouldn't change it for a second.

[Nicole]

All right, friends last. But dear God, most certainly not least part one of the question. Can you tell us anything about the Dusk Court? Again, this is only with Acotar spoilers. In the Western Isles, the same location as where the prison sits. Now, this is where the prison where the bone carver was, where Lanthus was. It used to be an eighth court, but now, now it falls under Rhysand's jurisdiction and his blood is keyed to the gates. Quote, the prison was made before High Lords existed, before Prythian was Prythian. Some of the inmates remember those days, remember a time when it was Mor's family, not mine, that ruled in the North. Sergey Maas said, and I quote, what do you want me to say, Alex?

[Lexi]

I.

[Nicole]

A lot of things, Sarah.

[Lexi]

First and foremost, that's her being like,

[Nicole]

I'm not giving you the plot of the next book.

[Lexi]

Yes, exactly. That's what I say.

[Nicole]

She said this, this cements, confirms, underlying italicize, save on the floppy disk, that this is absolutely what we are going to be learning about in Acotar 6, 7 and 8. This is also a place that has an eight pointed star on the floor. You mean like the tattoo on Nesta's back? We talk so much in our Acotar coverage and especially in our Mass First Madness coverage about Nesta being the high lady of the Dust Court and becoming that in a future Acotar book. I absolutely see that being one of the POVs, because I don't see her discovering the Dust Court in anyone else's POV other than Nesta.

Yeah, I agree. Well, and there was so much foreshadowing for Nesta becoming a queen and all of that. And like literally from chapter one of Acotar, the queen language was all there. Yeah. And I am just so wholeheartedly on the Dust Court camp. I will die on that hill. I am absolutely fascinated by all of this. Gosh, it's like I just want to keep talking about this, but I know

[Lexi]

that we have so much more to keep talking about.

[Nicole]

We'll come back within our Mas vs Madness section.

Yes.

So before we move into our Throne of Glass spoilers territory, friendly reminder, this is going to be Throne of Glass and Acotar spoilers because Acotar is going to be covered for all of this, because that was how the interview went. But Also we have 11 months of ACOTAR deep dive episodes where we go through chapter chunks of every single Acotar book discussing key insights, character.

[Lexi]

And now so much character analysis.

[Nicole]

So much more world building, the cauldron, the mother timeline of the Bat Boys.

[Lexi]

Like if you want to dive on that. That was before we had a content researcher too. Oh my God. Those were the days at the kitchen

[Nicole]

counters until 9pm at night.

[Lexi]

Oh God. Now if you want so please go listen to this. Link is in the show. Notes, notes. For those episodes.

[Nicole]

All right, Throne of Glass, friendly reminder. We just finished our four part fan

[Lexi]

guide on Throne of Glass, so this

[Nicole]

is going to be really fun.

Well, and if you have not finished Throne of Glass, really and truly, our fan guides are divided up. So each episode only has spoilers, like up to X book. And we really do talk about, like, the setup for what you'll be reading next. And then the second half is going to be whole series spoilers. So you just drop off your real if you're just kind of getting into Throne of Glass or you are a little bit intimidated. Not to toot our own horn, but those proud episodes are extremely useful. Yes.

All right. And the first episode is no series spoilers, so it's everything you need to know before reading Assassin's Blade, Thrown A Glass and a Crown of Midnight. All right, now we're going to be talking Throne of Glass spoilers. If you have not read Throne of Glass, skip ahead to Crescent City. If you've read Crescent City or say goodbye. Okay, I really enjoy that we got the backstory of how Throne of Glass came to be.

I love how Sarah talked about how Aen's and her own journey were parallel while Aelin is by no means Sarah. They basically grew up together and they learned how to live and be their own person together. AEN mirrors Sarah's own experiences and trained adulthood. Aen was also able to be what Sarah wanted to be. Unapologetic. Take Aelin or leave her. She's not here to try to be liked. Sarah didn't grow up feeling like she was in an environment where women were allowed to be angry or rage. They had to be nice and polite. And she was not any of those things. She didn't want to be any of those things. So she was like, but I, you know, I was kind and all of that.

[Lexi]

Like, I want to like, plug that

[Nicole]

in there for her. So she made sure Aen was not that she got to put what she was internally experiencing into Aelin as a character. And I love that Sarah is like, Aelin is who she is and you can either accept her or don't. I don't care. And yes, that is exactly Aelin's character. And I just love how Sarah was able to capture her own feelings of becoming an adult and finding oneself and your voice and your strength within Aelin. Like, I just love her character, Jordan. Yeah, you can really feel it. And especially actually in the early episodes. I think we were even talking about this during our fan club live Q and A because somebody had asked if we think that the books would have been different if Sarah had written Aen Celaena later on in her life. And we were like, absolutely. Her character, I think, would have been completely different because they were parallel so much growing up together.

Yep, absolutely.

We got to see Aelin mature. We got to see Sarah's writing mature. It was really special to experience when

something that Sarah mentioned about Aen is she never tried to control her. Like, Aen just took her where the wind took her. And that is so Aen. It's so a. Like, she feels like a person so vividly on those pages. And I think that that's a huge reason why she let the character define the story. And again, I keep going back to what a level of trust that is and just like, everything's gonna work out and that. I really admire that for her as a writer. I also want to throw out how she mentioned the romantic relationships because we do see Selena with two men with Dorian and then Kale, and then obviously we have her with Rowan later with Aylin. And I love that. Like, it doesn't feel bait and switchy, though. It doesn't, yeah.

It's. It's a self discovery.

Yes. Like with Acotar, it's definitely bait and switchy because we have Tamlin. We're, you know, falling in love with him, yada, yada, yada. And then suddenly, bam, there you are. I've been looking for you. With Kale, it's wrong people, right time where it's like they're exactly who they needed in that moment. Same with Dorian and her, like, they were two people who were attracted to each other, but dear God, were they not right at that moment, nor were they in general. And then there's Rowan, who she gets to learn and be. And like, I know you and I have both had that experience where we've dated people who we were like, this feels good. But then you're like, oh, dear God, this is not right. And then, you know, it just completely changes when you meet your person. And I'm really glad she talked about that because I feel like that's something a lot of authors. We were so used to the bait and switch. And I feel like it just feels so natural for an 18 year old, which is how we start with Selena.

And Sarah also really talked about needing Aen to have the space to make her own bedroom choices and learn from her mistakes. And like Nicole was saying, just have different relationships. I'll say, not just romantically, but otherwise as well. Platonic relationship familial. Relationships that help her grow into who she becomes. And we've already talked about this a little bit, but again, just Sarah letting her characters make bad choices is human. It's a human thing. Right. And it's more of them learning from those choices as well as it really being true to their character in some kind of way. So I just. I loved that conversation about AEN and. And all of that. Yeah.

All right, let's get into some rapid fire throwing the glasses.

[Lexi]

First off, what did Lorcan do? I love that Sarah J. Maas is like, someone just explained this to her, like, a few months ago.

[Nicole]

I'm assuming she means, like, explain the

[Lexi]

discourse around the fandom of people being like, what happened, Sarah? We need to know. She's like, wait, you don't know what she's like? I thought it was pretty obvious, but

[Nicole]

she says that she doesn't know how

[Lexi]

to feel about it. I mean, when she says that, I'm assuming she doesn't know how to feel about us needing to have that information,

[Nicole]

but she said maybe she will have bonus content as a surprise Christmas present someday.

[Lexi]

I'll be honest, I am not holding my breath. But what an awesome surprise if we ever get it. Next with there is Vaughn.

[Nicole]

Quick pause in case you're like, who's Vaughn again? He is the sixth member of Maeve's cadre, and the member we definitely know the least about his animal form is an osprey. And the only description we get is in the form of great wings, considerable wingspan. He was said to be looking for Lorkhan at the same time as Gavriel and Fenris. This is an empire of storms. However, Vaan went north. North in his search, and he seems to be the only member that spends the most time apart from the others.

[Lexi]

To our surprise, Sarah said that this

[Nicole]

is something she thinks about a lot.

[Lexi]

Us too, Sarah.

[Nicole]

But then she was like, that's all I'm gonna say about that.

[Lexi]

Do you think Vaughn's gonna show up at a Mass first connection? Yeah, I do.

[Nicole]

What if he accidentally got lost in another world and it's like, like, no wonder he's been absent. Nobody has seen him in books.

[Lexi]

Like, he's not even on the planet.

[Nicole]

Probably.

[Lexi]

And maybe we'll see him in one

[Nicole]

of these Acotar books as, like, like, it won't be like. And then there was Vaughn from Throne of Glass. Like, I could see it being a super deep cut or something like that. And I bet even Sarah, like, wouldn't even specify like, yes, it is him. And like, it would just leave it to us to speculate. But I gotta say, seriously, theorizing a about Vaughn and how he fits into the naspers was not on my bingo card.

Here's an so this is just a throwing a glass in Acotar. Spoiler. What if he does go into Prythian? He gets lost. He went up to Rift hold and he got lost in a rift that was open in the world somewhere or missed or whatever. And he traveled to Acotar and he sees Rhys and he's like, Maeve. Are you connected to Maeve? And what if that is how we get these? The final solidification of is Maeve connected to Rhys? Or I'll even say, is Maeve's fae form connected to Rhys? And that's how we get that mask first parallel. I don't know. I'm curious.

I am very curious too. Yes, I was very surprised that she volunteered that kind of and non answer. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe she's just having fun fun with us. I could honestly. I'll take it.

[Lexi]

Feed me, Sarah.

[Nicole]

Next. Where is Manon now? So in case it's been a minute since she finished Kingdom of Ash, we left Manon as she headed off back to the Western Wastes to the Witch Kingdom to reclaim the lands for the witches as their queen. Remember, she's both the Iron Teeth and Kraken descendant. Options that were offered to her at the end of Kingdom of Ash were that Ansel offered to share the Weight beasts and to divide the land as it was at the height of the Witch Kingdom. Dorian asked her to train his aerial legion of wyverns as a ploy to see her more. And Irene told her and Dorian to just get married if they want to see more of each other. So Sarah's answer was, honestly, Manon should be in therapy because she went through a lot. Given how Sara mentioned how she unknowingly channeled a lot of herself into Manon's story, that makes a lot of sense that that's what she wants for Manon.

At this point, I'm just gonna pretend that the Western Wastes has very good mental health care insurance and she's off rebuilding her kingdom. And her and Abraxos go on many reflective flights that she then gets to talk about in therapy.

I love that. And also, you know what? The Kraken witches, they have been posing as healers and all of that. So maybe, maybe, maybe they're therapists. Yeah, I could see a crocodile talking witch being a good therapist. I agree When Manon actually go to it, that is a different subject.

I think with enough time and with

[Lexi]

enough nudge in front of Braxo, she

[Nicole]

would Next why did AEN have to lose her powers? Friendly reminder. AEN sacrificed her powers to recreate the lock for the word keys and the word Gate. The lock required all of her powers and her life force and she was about to die. But luckily she was gifted enough power by Mala Firebringer that she only had to give up her human life and then she kept her Fae life force, but as a result she has a vastly reduced power bank. So Sarah says that she really grappled with that decision because Aelin had to learn to love and embrace her magic, especially in Era Fire. And at the same time there had to be a level of sacrifice and the ending wouldn't have felt as deserved if she had her magic and she was able to face off with Maeve and Erewhana as a result. In that way. And SJM as an endless thinker about things, she wonders what life looks like after losing all that power. How would you feel? And it could be the start of a new journey. And this was one of my favorite quotes from the entire interview. Quote, taking away their magic doesn't take away their strength. They meaning Nesta and alien villain. They're still badasses. That doesn't go away and make them less of a hero.

[Lexi]

Brava to that.

[Nicole]

I loved that answer.

So then Alex asked, will we ever see our Throne of Glass characters again? And Sarah said that while she thinks about them all the time, if her children let her sleep in past 5am maybe. I feel this so much. Yes. So that settles that online debate, at least for now. And on a similar note, Alex wanted to know what happened to the world of Throne of Glass book. Will it ever be released? So friends, this is a book that was going to be like a glossary of all things Throne of Glass, covering languages, geography, religions and history, among many other topics. For a while it was listed on the Bloomsbury website, but in October 2020 it was taken down. So Sarah mentioned how she thought the project was going to be easy, but this was something that meant a lot to her and she had dedicate a lot of time to it. And frankly, she wanted to focus on putting out other stories. So maybe it will come out at a different time.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm almost relieved. Like, don't get me wrong, I would

[Lexi]

have loved that for a Throne of Glass fan guide coverage especially.

[Nicole]

But at the end of the day, the stories are why we have fallen in love with the Mas verse so much. And I'm really glad that that is where she's devoting her time. All right, friends, let's move into our Crescent Crescent City spoilers territory. So this is only Crescent City and Acotar spoilers. And it's going to be very, very short because then we're going to move right into mass. First spoilers. Okay, so we really only have rapid fire when it comes to Crescent City only. So because we never saw a body,

[Lexi]

is Cormac actually dead?

[Nicole]

So remember, Cormac was the crown prince of the Avalon Fae. He tried to get engaged to Bryce in Scotland.

[Lexi]

Sky and Breath.

[Nicole]

But after working alongside our crew and learning that him and Sofie were both rebels and very much in love, he sacrificed himself at the final battle at the ending of book two. Why do people think he's still alive?

[Lexi]

No body, no crime.

[Nicole]

That's why Cormac also had the power of winnowing. So there was the argument that he winnowed away, among other things.

[Lexi]

Sarah J. Maas shakes her head. She goes, where do you find the these questions? But I will say she never said a yes or a no. Although I think it's a no. I. Although I think it's eight.

[Nicole]

He's.

[Lexi]

He's dead. He's definitely dead too.

[Nicole]

Yes, He's.

[Lexi]

He's dead. Next.

[Nicole]

Are Bryce and Hunt really mates? And this one, she was like, genuinely surprised by. She's like. She actually answered. She's like, yes. And that is like, not even even up for debate.

[Lexi]

Like, how could that even be up for debate?

[Nicole]

Then when asked the follow up of her true mate being Azriel and like, kind of like why this question was even posed, Sarah laughed and said no and she's sorry. To anyone who shipped Bryce and Azriel,

[Lexi]

I accept your apology, Sarah. Thank you. Next question. Why are there otters? To which Sarah's like, why are there not otters?

[Nicole]

Otters relay communications between those who live in Crescent City, including the Mare and the Istros river, the Reapers and the Bone Quarter, and of course the residents of Lunatheon. They are extremely intelligent and they're extremely cute.

Sarah absolutely adores otters. She thinks they're super cute. And if they were little messengers, that would be even cuter. So that's why we have messenger otters in Crescent City.

[Lexi]

All right, friends, let's move into some full mass first spoilers.

[Nicole]

So please only listen to this section to the end of this episode. If you have finished every single book in the mass verse.

[Lexi]

I need to talk about more because

[Nicole]

the question of what are more powers. Sarah said truth and then she oh my God quote. But you have other smile powers beyond that. I'm not going to reveal any more. There might be more about that. Who knows? Lexi, I'm doing it. I am dying on the hill. I am dying on it. It is on. I am on the hill. I will dramatically die. Moore is a Kraken witch. So okay, let's go through the reasons why her power is truth. You know who else had a very similar to truth power? Fucking baba yellow legs when she was able to see through any bullshit and all of that. The color that Mor constantly wears is red. The direction direct color we associate with the Kraken witches, especially around the cloaks. The fact that she got her powers right when she got her first period, that is literally witch lore in Throne of Glass.

[Lexi]

Like that is

[Nicole]

the fact that there's multiple mentions of her being able to perform something similar to the Yielding. And that's how she cemented herself as Rhys's second. And basically when everyone else is dead, it in his court more is just the fail safe, AKA the Yielding, the connection between her family and the Ouroboros mirror, which feels extremely witch mirror to me. Now some people think that she might be Astorin's long lost baby, the baby who died in a miscarriage. Sadly, I really don't think so. Mainly because Mor would have to be a Kraken witch. And the Krakens look very similar to the fae. While the iron teeth take much more after the vogue with vog like qualities like literally iron in their nails and like all of that stuff. So there's so much more to this. But the way that Sarah J. Maas said that, it made me be like alarm, alarm, alarm. I, I feel like we have to be getting more POV story going forward in the next book. Like I. I wonder if that's one of the povs that was surprising to her. Again, Sarah has mentioned in previous interviews, this is from a long time ago, that Moore's story is most likely going to be a novella. And I wonder if that's one of the reasons this surprised her is because this is not a novella. This is, this is much deeper.

[Lexi]

So I just needed to get that off my chest. I've been on this hill for two years. Oh my God.

[Nicole]

All right, next question. Who or what is Fury Axtar? Oh, my girl. Fury Axhar is an assassin and quite a mysterious woman. Her age, her species, her veneer class and her Motives are entirely unknown. Fans want to know. Because she's such a mystery. She tells Bryce her upbringing was, quote, more fucked up than she knew. And everyone is quite scared of her, including the archangels, who are supposed to be like walking gods.

Well, and there is speculation among the fandom that Fury is connected to Amren or is the same kind of otherworldly creature as Amren is. There's other theories that are variations of Fury being an actual Fury from myth, a Vulg princess or queen, or the daughter of an Asteri.

Now, some suspect that Fury might be the daughter of Thanatos and grew up in the Court of Nightmares. Then she somehow ended up in Midgard. I am extremely hung up on this because during our Acawar coverage in Mass First Madness, there is a mention of Lord Thanatos in the Court of Nightmares. And there's a Thanatos in Crescent City. He's one of the Princes of Hell. He's the Prince of the ravine. Also, Thanatos, in Greek mythology is the personification of death. He is the son of Nyx, the Goddess of night. But who is his daughter? Thanatos?

[Lexi]

Daughter, you ask?

[Nicole]

Her name is. Is Enris. Okay. Things are looking fine. Things are looking good until you look up what Enris means. It means long pause. Fury.

[Lexi]

Fury, literally.

[Nicole]

How does someone in Acowor end up in Midgard as one of the Princes of Hell? Why does his daughter's name mean Fury? We know from House of Sky and Breath that Danika used her blood tracing hound powers on Fury to learn her lineage. And it's a big hush hush. Is she the daughter of the Prince of the fourth level of Hell?

[Lexi]

And did Sarah Jean Maas just happen to drop that in a different series?

[Nicole]

Because there are quite a number of theories about the different entrances into the Hell realms. Almost like the Northern Rift connects Midgard to Hel. There's a Northern Rift to Prythian. I mean, that Bryce uses. Maybe Romiel is a thin place too, especially because it has a bunch of mist everywhere. Maybe this is how Thanatos keeps getting in and out. He keeps going from, you know, Court of Nightmares back to Midgard. Court of Nightmares back to Midgard.

[Lexi]

It's quite the commute for my guy, but. So. I'm so obsessed with this.

[Nicole]

So I'm so sorry, Nicole, but this is going to remain a mystery. Because Sarah says, quote, again, these questions are like you're asking me things. I don't know if I should confirm, deny, or ruin their dreams by answering.

[Lexi]

You know, what if it would have ruined a dream of mine, so I appreciate it.

[Nicole]

I'm going to live in my own little world. That you're right, Nicole, with your theory. Oh, thank you. Even though we get that ruin their dreams by answering, it does sound a lot like there is no crazy connection. And I am leaning further and further away from some of the detailed mass verse theories just because this mostly lives in her head. And I know I would at least need a master document for all these extras.

[Lexi]

Oh my gosh. All right, moving on.

[Nicole]

There's a lot of theories that Rhys and Ruhn are related. Can Sarah confirm or deny those theories? So Rhys and Ruhn are not only described as looking basically the same minus the hair and the piercings, but from CC2, Bryce looks at Rhys and literally says Rune. So technically we do actually get confirmation that they are related. In Queen Crescent City 3, Selene is sister to Helaena, who went to start the Starborn line in the CC world while Celine started it or continued it in Prythian. And because of how Selene married the High Lord of the Night Court, her bloodline descended all the way down to Rhys. So they are great many times removed cousins. But it's the follow up question that made us go gasp. Is me related to any of them? The main links are that of more physical appearance. I mean, violet starry eyes are how Maeve's eyes are described. It's only described that way once. But Rhys's eyes are violet with flecks of starlight. Maeve is described as having this like raven haired beauty. Obviously Rhys is quite the beauty himself, but he also has that blue black hair much like a raven's feathers. There's also a lot of similarities between their powers. Mind reading, mind control, darkness, shadows. Rhys can winnow a whole fucking army. Maeve has the ability to make a whole ship disappear and can move throughout the world. It's never named Winnowing, but neither does Fenris's powers. It's never named Winnowing. So all the theories link to Rhys and Maeve being connected, while some of them also linking to Ruhn being in the conversation as well.

[Lexi]

So Sarah so shockingly dodged the question saying, well, what do you want me to do?

[Nicole]

Hand you over my notebooks? Do you want to comb through all of that? Yes. The answer is yes. Yes, absolutely I do.

Oh my gosh.

[Lexi]

But I take that as I would

[Nicole]

pay with money I don't have to.

[Lexi]

Okay, sorry, just fantasizing there.

[Nicole]

But to be honest, this feels like a different kind of deflection than the previous ones where she's like, where did you get these questions? Or like shaking her head. This one she's kind of almost like retreating, and it feels very much like something she's thought about now, whether it's something she's written about. That's where I keep going back to this Vaughn thing, which I'll get into in a second, because the way that she smirks around and that's all I have to say about that. Regarding where Vaughn is and how she thinks about it, I absolutely think he's a walker and he's going to. Or he accidentally fell into a rift and plopped down in Prythian. And I think that he's going to look at Rhys and be like, oh, my God, you are. You look just like Maeve. And we're somehow going to get a connection there. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I'm gonna

[Lexi]

stick to my guns there.

[Nicole]

That sounds good. I. I will say the notebook comment is leading.

[Lexi]

Lexi.

[Nicole]

Everything.

[Lexi]

We could make anything leading. That's what it really is. Part of our jobs.

[Nicole]

All right.

[Lexi]

So much fun. Speaking of leading, let's talk about the

[Nicole]

Dusk Court now with mass verse spoilers. I think it's pretty much a given that the Dusk Court is going to be a huge part of the next Acatar series. Especially, I mean, everything that happens with the Asteri, Vesperus and Bryce, Nesta and Azriel in the prison and below the prison. Really. Yes. Let's not forget that Bryce is a descendant of Selene or really Helaena. But Selene looks a hell of a lot like Rhys's sister.

[Lexi]

That was not a throwaway line that we're never going to see again.

[Sponsor Voice 3]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

Oh, my God.

[Nicole]

Now, I want to also open up the theory that we did talk a lot about in our ACOTAR Mask vs Madness coverage, that the Archeron sisters are descendants of the Dusk Court as well. Celine keyed her own bloodline into the prison itself, and her power is. Is glowing. Starlight. Nesta can walk through wards in the prison that she should not be able to walk through now. Yes, she's made of the. She's made from the cauldron. The cauldron is this almighty power that's kind of how it's explained away in Silver Flames. But I highly wonder if it's another reason. There's also multiple mentions in the original trilogy of especially Acomaf and Ack of War of Feyre. Glowing bright as a star. What is Selene's power? Starlight. If this is the case. What if the next Acotar book follows all three of the Archeron sisters and their heritage? Now, if you want. Do you have anything to say?

I. I'm just. I'm just sitting back and just enjoying the city right now.

Okay.

[Lexi]

So if you want to watch me absolutely crash out about this multiple times,

[Nicole]

we have the entire Selenium download walkthrough and how that relates to everything in Acusif and all that in our Court of Silver Flames episode seven. So if you want to listen to that episode. There you go.

Seven.

[Lexi]

Okay.

[Nicole]

While we're talking about the lineage of the Archeron sisters, what about Mama Archeron? And more specifically, is she a descendant of the Iron Teeth witches? We know that Mama Archeron died of typhus when Pharaoh was killed. 8. Before the events of ACOTAR Book 1, Mama Archeron unevenly divided her love and attention towards her daughters. Because Nesta was most like herself, she groomed her eldest to become a very powerful woman, who she wanted to marry a man of great wealth and prestige on the continent. While barely giving attention to Elaine or Feyre, Mama Archeron saw Nesta's talents as a dancer and ensured Nesta learned from an early age to be the best. And that was a huge part of our coverage with her character dissection in Silver Flames. Now there are about a million theories around Feyre's mom, where she descended from, why this is the case specifically around Nesta. The reason I'm highlighting her so much is because Nest is mentioned to be a witch multiple times. Especially around the Illyrian warriors where they're

[Lexi]

like, what's this witch? A witch. A witch. What's this witch doing here? And she's like, I'll be a witch. And more.

[Nicole]

More is like, no, you don't know what you're talking about. And she actually explains a little bit more of what witches are.

[Lexi]

I don't think that's an accident. I'm getting off topic. I'm just. That first part, you're just crashing out. And my little brings me back to 11 months of having 16 books open on my computer at one time for like just a year straight. Oh God.

[Nicole]

Now, some people think that Mama Archer was a High Fae and she fell in love with a human man. She. If. Especially if she met.

[Lexi]

Oh God, here I go. Especially if she met Papa Archeron and he is a merchant trading with Brithian on his spice watch. Especially considering he's only going to the safe areas from Amarantha. I digress again. But let it be known Spice Watch made its way into this episode. I wouldn't be me if it didn't.

[Nicole]

I know.

[Lexi]

You know, one of the first things I'm gonna do after we finish ACOTAR6 is search for the word spice. First thing I do. Oh my God.

[Nicole]

Now there's a possibility that she meaning Mama Archeron. That she's half High Fae. Especially if she's a descendant from Selene. Which brings me to a very interesting mention that the bone carver has in Acowor. Quote clever, that Fae warrior. Her bloodline is long gone now. Though a true trace still runs through some. Some human line. No one remembers her name, but I do. She would have been my salvation had I not made my choice long ago before she walked the Earth. I mean, he's talking about Selene, right?

Yes. So he is talking about Selene. Yes.

But that's what her trace still runs through a human line has to be the Archerons.

So.

[Lexi]

Well, and it wouldn't be out of

[Nicole]

the question for like way back in their ancestry ancestry for Rhys and Thera to be related because hey, I mean, Rowan and Aelin.

[Lexi]

Yeah, I was like, wait, which spoiler section right now?

[Nicole]

Like Rowan and Aylin.

[Lexi]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Yeah.

So while I commend Alex for mentioning the whole like, is she an Iron Teeth witch? I honestly did not even think about that as part of this. Other than the whole Nesta mentions around witches and all that kind of stuff. Because I 1000% think that Mama Archeron is a half Fae descendant of Selene. Yep, absolutely. Especially with all dimensions around.

[Lexi]

Especially with Nessa having a fucking eight pointed star on her back.

[Nicole]

Well, and then remember when Feyre puts the crown on her head? The crown stars and how it literally just feels right and it glows and all. I'm so sorry. I don't have it right in front of me, so I don't remember exactly what happened. But yes, that stood out because.

[Lexi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're now just crashing out on our own. Let's talk about why. Actually, Sarah J. Matt Mass. What she said here. Sarah J. Maas shook her head and then she closed her eyes and says she needs a spicy margarita. To be honest, I don't know how to take that. I definitely think there's more to Mama Archeron.

[Nicole]

I think there's more to Papa Archeron.

[Lexi]

Yes, Spice the thing.

[Nicole]

But I don't think she's a descendant of the Iron Teeth witches. I definitely think it's more that clever Fae warrior. Yes, I agree. Oh, Carver.

[Lexi]

Oh, God damn it. Sarah I need a spicy margarita.

[Nicole]

So another question that Alex asked is, how did the Book of Breathings and the Walking Dead end up in Jesiba's library? I'm so glad she asked this question. So remember in chapter 78 of Crescent City One. Right. You all just remember that. Right? Right.

[Lexi]

I do. I do. Not you. You don't count. Nicole.

[Nicole]

Micah is in Bryce's office, and Bryce searches the bookshelf and brushing over these titles, which include on the Divine Number, the Walking Dead, the Book of Breathings, the Queen with Many Faces. And the big question is, how the hell did the Walking Dead, which is a book that is literally from Throne of Glass, and the Book of Breathings from Acotar, get to Midgard?

Well, and the Queen of Many Faces sounds exactly like the three Face God goddess.

[Lexi]

Yes, it does. But we're focusing on what we know right now. Nicole still looks there. I feel like I'm right back into 2024 again. Oh, my God. So Sarah said, quote, I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned.

[Nicole]

My question would be, is, are we going to get this in ACOTAR 6, 7 or 8? Or are we going to see this in House of many waters, aka CC4? But we also have to remember Jessiba

[Lexi]

is super, super dead.

[Nicole]

I think it's gonna be in Acotar.

Okay.

Absolutely. No idea how well, but. Okay, I know. Well, real quickly, I want to check myself right now for expectations because we all know how expectations were going into Crescent City 3, and a lot of those expectations did not pan out. And we as the fandom get a little excited, understandably, you know, nothing wrong with that.

And.

And for us to be able to, like, it's okay if this. If these Acatar books more focus on Acatar, there is plenty of loose ends that need to be tied up. But I do think that we will get, I'll call it threads for from the Universe that are those crossovers that are probably bigger nods than we got in Silver Flames, which there is a lot in Silver Flames. Like, really and truly, there's a lot in Silver Flames. So I think that it'll be be a little bit more on the page than that, because now our friends have seen price and whatnot, you know, and they know about Midgard and the Asteri and all of that. And so I do think that now that they have this knowledge, what are they going to do about it here in Prythian?

Well, everything from Selene download, Celine's download, we didn't get to see the aftermath of how that played out in Prythian.

Exactly.

And I think that we're absolutely going to. Especially when she was nodding towards the povs and. And how you're going to get a lot more insight into things.

I.

Maybe we're going to get insight into Rhys and why he's like, why the fuck was my sister looking like Celine? I don't know. But. Okay, going back to what something that we learned in CC3. 15,000 years ago, Jesiba worked as a priestess in the Great Library of Parthos. Then when the library was attacked, she boarded a ship and smuggled some of the books on. You know, on her way out of the library. We can assume that these books were included in the smuggling. We know that Feyre joined the two halves of the Book of Breathings together and then threw it into the cauldron. So did it just like poop out in the Library of Parthos? We don't really know. That's a good question. Right.

[Lexi]

And I don't think it's because I'm

[Nicole]

not too worried about the timeline stuff at this point. Because when you're traveling between worlds, I'm not going to let that be a guiding.

We're also talking about 15,000 years. Like, I'm like, whatever.

[Lexi]

Like, that's fine.

[Nicole]

Now, I. I want to be very clear. I don't think we're gonna like, see Jesiba or anything like that. We're not gonna see those. Those questions. But I do think that the fact that she answered. I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned. Makes me excited that she's thinking about it.

Exactly.

That's where I.

Yes.

Yes.

Or like, maybe not that exact answer will be answered, but the concept around it.

[Lexi]

Yes. How books.

[Nicole]

How world are getting into another world.

Right.

[Lexi]

How they can poop out into a library.

[Nicole]

Yes.

[Lexi]

Poop down into the. Okay, next. I'm tired. My dog won't sleep in her crate and she only sleeps on a pallet on the floor. If Lee's gonna eat next to her. Oh, my God.

[Nicole]

All right. Is the Settling the same as the drop? So quick Tldr of what? The Settling is from Throne of Glass. It describes the point in a phase life where they basically stop aging. It can only also happen to a demi Fae. And it's basically the shock to the system that causes a Fae to lose control of their magic and.

[Lexi]

Or just lose it all together.

[Nicole]

And in Crescent City, the drop is an essential event for Veneer to claim both their powers and immortality. The first Light's grid power is generated by the pure, undiluted light each veneer emits while making the drop. And it is only during the drop that the flash of first light appears. Appears. So the drop itself is the easy part. It's falling into one's power. But once the bottom is reached, one's mortal body expires.

Upon arriving in Midgard, the Asteri infected the water on the planet with the parasite.

[Lexi]

No, we are not talking about the parasite possibly being in Acotar. I refuse to look into that theory more than I already have.

[Nicole]

The parasite burrows in it to a veneer and warps their magic. The Asteri then created this coming of age ritual. Ritual for all magical creatures who have entered Midgard or are one of their descendants. This is a blast of magic that would be released, contained, and then on by the Asteri. So Sarah says in regards to. Is the settling the same as the drop quote? I don't, I don't. Okay, you're asking.

[Lexi]

Just skip it. Just skip.

[Nicole]

It's very. Yeah, I'm gonna say that they are related. I don't think that they're the exact same thing thing, but they're related. Their own world. Yeah, I think I, I'm going to take that as a yes.

[Lexi]

Like, just.

[Nicole]

Yeah, that's my personal takeaway from that.

I'm definitely looking at this as that is her not confirming by any means,

[Lexi]

but her saying, don't put the cart

[Nicole]

before the horse before I reveal it. Like she's, she's wanting to hold on to that reveal. So I will say the fact that she, she doesn't want to answer this or does mean that it'll. It might be answered in a future Crescent City book. I don't think this is going to be an Acotar revelation. I think that this would be like a house of many water CC4.

Or maybe. I don't even know if we'll get like a direct answer. But just again, learning more about how these worlds are all in the same universe, like really as a fandom, it has become so canon to us. And while absolutely, yes, yes, we, we got Crescent City 3, I do think that we haven't seen nearly as much as we've been thinking on the page. Right.

Obviously.

And so I, I don't even know where I was going with this. I think that we will go ahead and get something that again brings the worlds even closer together again. Something kind of like how we got in Crescent City 3 that really like puts the puzzle pieces together. And while this Concept specifically might not be explored. I think it will still be able to be answerable. You know, I agree.

All right, last question for us to highlight from Sarah J. Maas. Was Mary kill Rhysand, Hunt and Rowan? And she refused to answer, saying that

[Lexi]

I kind of want to fuck them all.

[Nicole]

I mean, don't we all, girl? But you know what?

[Lexi]

Lexi and I are going to actually

[Nicole]

answer this, and we're going to say, fuck, marry, kill. Lexi, who would you fuck? Mary, Kill. Kill. Cassie is not on this list. I'm so sorry.

I think I would marry Rowan. I loved how supportive of a partner he was. Like, I'm not saying the other ones aren't, but yes. Just yes.

Yeah.

And then Rhysand, I would. That boy. Yes. And I'm so sorry, Hunt. Like, I. And I like. Nothing against Hunt, I promise. I think that we're both kind of in the same camp where I don't get book boyfriend vibes from him. I honestly, I don't think from Rowan either, but that's just totally my own personal feelings. Yeah. Like, if I have to play, then that's what mine would be.

We actually have very different answers. So I would marry Rhysand. I mean, that is kind of an obvious. He's one of my number one book boyfriends. I love that man so much. I would kill Rowan, which I'm so, like. That is like.

[Lexi]

I. I'm so sorry, but the only reason I would fuck Hunt is he has lightning magic. And he literally used his tongue as a vibrator when he went down on Bryce. And I was like. I was gonna say, Nicole, you really

[Nicole]

have a thing for the wings, huh?

[Lexi]

Well, flying would be pretty fun. I don't know. But, yeah, I would need to know what that's like. I would need to know. And with that, friends, thank you so

[Nicole]

much for listening to this emergency bonus episode around the Sarah J. Maas interview. We are so grateful to be doing this again. It's so much fun. Clearly, we've had a lot of fun this episode. Friendly reminder that we have ACOTAR coverage and Throne of Glass and Mass. First link to all of those are in the show notes. We have a lot of content for sjm. We are ready. We're gonna have a lot more.

[Lexi]

Let's do this. In the meantime, next Monday, we are beginning our deep dive into the wonderful

[Nicole]

world of when the Moon Hatched. One of my favorite books of all time, with episode one covering the prologue through chapter 15. Thank you as always, to our very own Suriel, aka our content researcher, Brooke, and of course our executive producer who

[Lexi]

shouts to him and our community manager Peyton right now who are race editing this episode as we are recording it.

[Nicole]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Lexi]

Hayden, co host of Fantasy Fan. Oh my God. Hayden co host of Fantasy Fan. Fellas, you are absolutely amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Nicole]

We are very active on social media with weekly trivia book guides, lots and lots of Throne of Glass book guides right now and so much more. So please be sure to follow us on Instagram and slash our TikTok antasy fangirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube or want to watch on YouTube, pretty please hit that subscribe button to keep following along.

While you're hitting buttons, don't forget to rate this episode on whatever podcasting platform you are listening on. And if you're feeling extra generous, write

[Lexi]

a little love note in that review section.

[Nicole]

And last but certainly not least, share this episode with your fellow Sarah J. Maas friends. We did it.

[Lexi]

The two year drought has officially ended. October 27th. Can't come soon enough. Woo hoo.

[Nicole]

All right everybody. Bye bye.

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[Nicole]

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F1 has taken north America by storm in recent years and 2026 is shaping up to be the most exciting season of Formula One racing yet. With a completely fresh set of cars and engines, Lando Norris, Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton and the rest of the world's fastest drivers are speeding into the unknown this season. Whatever happens, the Race F1 podcast will be with you for every corner crash and controversy, starting with F1's all important pre season testing. This month, we're on the ground at every Grand Prix, including the three unmissable US Events in Miami, Austin and Las Vegas. Talking to the key players and bringing expert analysis on the stories that matter. Just search for the race F1 podcast to listen or watch. Wherever you get your podcasts,

[Nicole]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Lexi]

Acast.com.