FanGuide: The Serpent & The Wolf

Summary

Fantasy Fangirls Podcast – FanGuide: The Serpent & The Wolf

Episode Date: January 26, 2026
Hosts: Nicole and Lexi
Special Guest: Rebecca Robinson (author of The Serpent and the Wolf)
Topic: Deep Dive Fan Guide into The Serpent and the Wolf (Book 1 of Rebecca Robinson’s series), with world/lore, character analysis, spoilers and an in-depth Q&A with the author, all in anticipation of Book 2: The Wicked and the Damned (releasing Feb 26, 2026).

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Overview

In this episode, sisters Nicole and Lexi offer the ultimate fan guide to The Serpent and the Wolf, helping both new and returning readers prepare for the sequel, The Wicked and the Damned. The episode is structured in three main parts:

1. Spoiler-Free Fan Guide – World, lore, magic, and characters for newcomers.
2. Spoiler-Filled Recap & Discussion – Major plot events, character arcs, and their own (very enthusiastic) reactions.
3. In-Depth Q&A with Author Rebecca Robinson – Worldbuilding, character journeys, magic systems, foreshadowing, and teasers for Book 2.

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1. Spoiler-Free Fan Guide (Starts at [06:38])

Why Nicole & Lexi Love The Serpent and the Wolf ([06:48]-[10:29])

• The world is rich and detailed, with immersive politics, trade, and culture.
• Vassa (FMC) is smart, cunning, flawed, and deeply realistic in her personal struggles.
• Reid (MMC) is a refreshing, non-toxic male lead: kind, sassy, gentle, and “book husband” material.
• There is excellent found family, realistic character growth, and memorable banter.
• Audiobook narration is highlighted as "fabulous" – especially Jesse Vilinsky's performance.

Quote:
"Reid is a teddy bear and he is so kind while also still being sassy and having this beautiful banter. He is my dream. I love a golden retriever. He's great." – Nicole ([08:18])

Tropes Noted:

• Arranged marriage (with political edge and actual partnership development)
• Found family
• Politics and scheming ("you do have to pay attention")
• Realistic, nuanced struggle with mental health.

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High-Level World & Politics ([11:11]-[15:25])

The Continent: Divided into five nations:

• Asteria (FMC's homeland): Patriarchal monarchy with a conquering history; ruled now by cruel Emperor Dominic (Vassa’s brother).
• Ikeria (Main setting): Federation of six city-states, each led by a “foreman.” Foremen have various selection methods/term limits (from wisdom tournaments to fights to the death).
  • The six city-states: Dera (scholarship/political power), Iru (fishing), Sagus (ships/weapons), Hazut and Rultho (military/food, Rultho is especially war-focused), and Marais (salt/economic power, home city of MMC Reid).
  • Leadership Structure: Headman (like a President), elected from current foremen by a council of prior contenders.
• Three other nations (Zaatar, Sezal, Ubithia) are minor in Book 1.

Key Resource: Salt. "Marais has salt... salt is essential to the economy." ([15:18])

Notable Fact:
Asteria and Ikeria are enemies, creating the setting for an arranged marriage between rivals.

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Magic & Covens ([16:01]-[17:52])

• Magic Users = Witches. Each witch belongs to a coven, usually associated with a goddess/god and a particular city/state.
• Coven Types:
  • Vraji (Varaji, black mist magic): Matriarchal, women-only, main coven in Book 1.
  • Zetair: Patriarchal, male-only, dark magic, almost extinct.
  • Zahia: Healing, both genders.
  • Other covens: Each with unique magical attributes, often secretive, and magic is precious/guarded.
• Magic as a Resource: Covens “live under” non-magical government after ancient wars decimated their population; political and magical powers are often in tension.

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Main Characters Introduced ([17:52]-[23:29])

• Vasilisa “Vassa” Kosar: Heiress of Asteria. Trained to be a political strategist. Struggling with anxiety, trauma, and a powerful, dangerous magic within her.
• Reid Kassadin (the Wolf): Foreman (“mayor”) of Marais. Kind, loved by his people, pragmatic and non-magical. Forced into an arranged marriage with Vassa.

Importantly: Their marriage is a political tool, and both are rivals forced into close proximity.

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2. Spoiler-Filled Recap & Discussion (from [24:34])

[Big Spoiler Warning before this section]

Book Recap: Plot Highlights ([24:34]-[32:07])

Nicole provides an energetic, detailed play-by-play of the major events, blending humor, emotion, and all the spice one expects from FFG:

• Vassa plans to assassinate Reid on their wedding night but is thwarted (with some BDSM antics and signature banter).
• She flees, studies her “curse” (really latent witch magic) in disguise, gets found by Reid (who’s not mad—he needs her for politics too).
• Through political machinations, Vassa learns to control her witch magic—her found family (coven) helps her process deep trauma.
• Key events: Headman election, conspiracies, betrayals by close advisors, brutal attacks with magical beasts called Miro Dag, slow-burn romance progression with steamy scenes, “Who did this to you?” moments (a fan favorite).
• Massive battles, sacrifices, and devastating bargains: Vassa gives up her magic to resurrect Reid after he is killed; she is left magicless and captive.

Memorable Recap Quote:
"But bondage aside, Vassa escapes to the sodality in De Ra, where she spends the next three months studying her curse... and she lived happily ever after. Just kidding." – Nicole ([24:45])

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Spoiler-Filled Favorite Moments & Reactions ([32:07]-[36:49])

• The intensity of Vassa’s mental health journey is praised.
• Stand-out scenes include under-the-table found family, Vassa’s anxiety attacks and their tender handling by Reid, and her transformation of power (“from Serpent to Wolf”).
• The “wearing Reid’s shirts to bed” micro-trope, banter about who sleeps where, and the emotional support within the coven give the book a sense of warmth and community.

Notable Quotes:
"This is the FMC empowerment journey that just makes me weak at the knees and weep." – Lexi ([46:17])
"‘What do you need to be okay?’ ...and Brett stopped and was like, ‘That was inspiring!’" – Nicole ([34:13])

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Magic System (Spoiler-Deep Dive) ([36:49]-[43:26])

• Varaji magic: Black mist, matriarchal, can suffocate/smother, power passed from mother to eldest daughter only upon death.
• Each coven has elemental or skill-based magic (light, metals, tides, healing), tied to different gods/goddesses.
• The Zatir (male) witches—long thought extinct—used bargains (soul magic) to wield dark power, often at a terrible cost.

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End-Game Plot Moves – Betrayals, Power Plays, and Setup for Book 2 ([43:26]-[56:11])

• Mathgin’s Betrayal: Trusted advisor reveals a violent vendetta, partners with Dominic (Vassa’s brother) to frame Vassa and start a war.
• Vassa’s Power Arc: Her “serpent” turns into a wolf—embodiment of growth and taking her destiny; kills Dominic; holds his severed head aloft at the election in a moment of raw feminine rage.
• Ozik’s Dark Magic: Revealed as a Zetair witch, Ozik unleashes a bargain demon (Miro Dag) and strikes a fateful bargain: resurrecting Reid in exchange for Vassa’s magic.
• Aftermath: Vassa is left powerless and abducted; Reid is now headman and Emperor of Asteria, but separated from Vassa (“’Where is my wife?’ trope intensifies!"). -The stakes: War looms, covens are fractured, and gods may have their own agendas.

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3. Author Interview – Rebecca Robinson Q&A ([65:18] onwards)

Rebecca’s Favorite Scene ([66:46])

• The under-the-table found family moment in the sodality:
  “It just flowed and it was like one of those scenes…Vassa’s first true moment of vulnerability. I love the scene. I love it.” ([66:53])

On Writing Reid ([68:07])

• Intentionally not an “abusive bad guy”; wanted a strong, loving, non-magical hero.
• "Men have the capacity to be powerful without diminishing women. That, to me, was Reid’s ultimate thing." – Rebecca ([68:38])
• Rejected trend of “fixing the asshole” or making MMCs dark/brooding at the expense of the FMC’s agency.

Easter Eggs & Foreshadowing ([70:03])

• Scene between Mathjin and Vassa about "balancing victims" and economic worldbuilding hides clues to betrayals and character depths.
• "Every time I go through my scenes...if it doesn't tick any of the boxes...cut your darlings." ([70:58])

On Worldbuilding ([73:05])

• Ikeria was fully mapped before Book 1 was written, with extensive brainstorming on political systems and economics—ambitious trade, resource dependencies, and distinct city-state cultures.

Vassa’s Mental Health Journey ([75:33])

• Inspired by Rebecca’s personal therapy; “low key… all of the things I was mad at myself for.”
• Vassa’s self-loathing and transformation mirror Rebecca’s own healing:
  “If you can love this character, why can’t you love yourself?” ([76:43])

Vassa in Book 2: Journey in a Word ([77:47])

• “Regression”—Book 2 goes “even darker,” with Vassa facing setbacks and harder trials as her agency is tested.

Zetair Witches & Bargains ([79:47]-[82:32])

• Magical bargains can do “anything” but always require another person’s will. Stakes are enormous.
• Major Consequence: If Vassa forcefully takes her magic back, "she would kill Reid." ([82:32])

The Gods & Future Lore ([83:02]-[84:52])

• ALL gods are important; especially pay attention to their relationships and the sparse details included in Book 1.
• Covens’ loyalty to city-states is complicated—magic is sacred and not to be weaponized for politics, recalling the Witch Wars history.

POVs in Book 2? ([94:54])

• Three: Vassa, Reid, and “novella” chapters from Ozik’s perspective. “Everything you think you know about everyone, you probably don’t.” ([97:08])

Teasers for Wicked and the Damned ([93:16]-[96:56])

• Vassa has a new fiancé (cue Bachelor-style Asyrian courtship while she is a political pawn).
• The masquerade mask social club is one of Rebecca’s favorite new settings.
• Vassa commits a "morally gray and egregious choice" ("hyped" to write it).
• Villain POVs (especially Ozik) allow for richer, more layered storytelling.

What to Remember for Book 2 ([91:45])

• Dominic’s unanswered questions (especially about their mother)
• The rich, still-hidden history of magic and covens.
• Vassa’s lack of Asterian support/friends—her outsider status will matter.

On Book 3 ([98:30])

• In the third act, even more intricate worldbuilding and emotional depth; Book 3 not expected until 2027.
• Writing has been both cathartic and demanding—Rebecca describes herself as a “method writer,” needing to “feel it to write it.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Fan-favorite tropes and dialogue:
  “What do you need to be okay?” ([34:13])
  “My strength is your strength” – under-the-table coven found family scene ([35:00])
  “Where is my wife?” – Reid’s motivation ([56:11])

• Lexi, on Vassa’s journey:
  “The title of the book is literally Vassa’s two selves…from serpent (a tool and survivor) to wolf (strength and found family).” ([46:01])

• Rebecca, on Vassa’s path in Book 2:
  “It’s darker. …We went ahead and just sent her back to the same place. I wouldn’t argue she laughs, but that’s okay. …It’s a series.” ([78:12])

• Rebecca, on writing good men:
  "I wrote a good man, but...I said at the very beginning: he is violent. In book two, I think the whole world is possessive of who they love, and I think he's absolutely willing to get violent if he needs to." ([97:46])

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Key Timestamps

• [06:38] – Spoiler-Free Fan Guide Begins
• [11:11] – Worldbuilding & Political Structure
• [16:01] – Magic Systems & Covens
• [17:52] – Main Characters (Vassa & Reid)
• [24:34] – Spoilers and Full Recap
• [32:07] – Spoiler-Filled Discussion & Favorite Scenes
• [36:49] – Explaining the Magic System
• [43:26] – Betrayals, Power Plays, and Endgame for Book 1
• [65:18] – Q&A with Rebecca Robinson Begins
• [66:46] – Rebecca on Favorite Scene (Under-Table Covens)
• [68:07] – Writing the Male Main Character
• [75:33] – Vassa’s Emotional/Mental Health Arc
• [79:47] – Zetair Witches & Bargain Magic
• [91:45] – How to Prepare for Book 2
• [94:54] – POVs in Book 2 (Three: Vassa, Reid, Ozik)
• [98:30] – On Writing Book 3
• [100:12] – Show wrap-up and teasers for next episodes

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Key Takeaways for Wicked and the Damned Readers

• The magic system is built on legacy, bargains, and dangerous power struggles—Vassa’s loss of magic and the bargains struck are central moving forward.
• The political landscape (Ikerian city-states, headman, covens, world map) remains complex; every city’s identity matters, and alliances are shifting.
• Gods, their relationships, and historical wrongs are going to play a major part—review everything you know about the gods and their consorts.
• Expect emotional regression for Vassa and a more violent, possessive side for Reid.
• The villain (Ozik) is stepping to center stage with POV chapters, and new characters (hello, Lord Karev) will upend everything.
• Watch for masquerades, shifting alliances, and new magical rules/consequences.
• Not everything or everyone is as they seem—keep an eye out for betrayal, gray morality, and the nuances of power.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is an absolute must-listen for anyone who loves complex fantasy worlds, nuanced character journeys, and a podcast host duo that brings equal parts expertise and fangirl joy to every analysis. Whether you’re a new reader just picking up The Serpent and the Wolf or a seasoned fan awaiting The Wicked and the Damned, Fantasy Fangirls has you covered—as does Rebecca Robinson, whose world is as thoughtful and twisty as her prose.

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Next Up: The Throne of Glass Fan Guide series begins next week!

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For graphic recaps, fan club access, and more content, visit: fantasyfangirls.com/fanclub

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Follow on Instagram/TikTok: @fantasyfangirlspod
Subscribe for early, ad-free episodes & show notes!

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Transcript

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[Nicole]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. I remember first starting FFG and honestly one of the best decisions we have ever made is when we put some real time and attention into our work. Website websites are an essential part of small business success. That's why we at Fantasy Fangirls absolutely love Squarespace.

[Lexi]

And you know me, with my marketing background I have pretty high standards for website tools. But Squarespace delivers in every way. One thing I love is their integrated Squarespace SEO tools. Every website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions, an auto generated site map and more. So you show up more often our search engines and bring in more of your ideal customers.

[Nicole]

You yes. Plus Squarespace's email campaigns give you all the tools you need to engage clients, promote your services and of course grow your business. There's all kinds of automations and email scheduling that helps take the mental load off of staying in touch with your customers and your community.

[Lexi]

Check out squarespace.com FFG to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code FFG welcome, welcome.

[Nicole]

Welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls podcast, where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character theme, series and more.

[Lexi]

I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy lore nerd.

[Nicole]

And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart.

[Lexi]

And Today's episode highlights one of our favorite reads of 2025, the Serpent and the Wolf. This episode will also include everything you need to know before the sequel, the Wicked and the damned releases on February 26th. We're so excited and we have an.

[Nicole]

Extra special guest, the author Rebecca Robinson, joining us at the end of this conversation for a special Q and A.

[Lexi]

First things first, listen up for our spoiler warning because it is very specific. This episode this episode is split into three parts. Part one has no spoilers for Serpent and the Wolf, so if you have not read Serpent and the Wolf, this part one is safe for you to listen to. In Serpent and the Wolf. There's a lot of politics and moving pieces, so that's why we're starting with a quick fantasy fan guide for Serpent and the Wolf to lay that foundation for you. Then parts two and three where we're discussing everything you need to know before the Wicked and the Damned and our interview with Rebecca Robinson. It does include spoilers only from Serpent and the Wolf. Obviously we are not going to have any spoilers for the Wicked and the Damned except any teasers that Rebecca has specifically shared herself. Full disclosure, Nicole and I have received the arc for the Wicked and the Damned. However, neither of us have fully read it. I did read a few chapters before we knew we were doing this episode. I stopped because then I knew that we were doing this episode and that wouldn't seem fair. So I've read only a few chapters, but nothing else.

[Nicole]

And I've read nothing yet, so I'm very excited.

[Lexi]

Finally read the arc after this.

[Nicole]

So with all of that said, if you do not know why Reed of Mireille is top tier book husband material, then you're safe to listen to part one. And you're welcome for introducing you to him by the way. But you are not safe to listen to part two and beyond because we are discussing the last chapter including everything that happens. Holy moly. There's a lot that happens. And don't worry, we will have a big old spoiler warning before we move into part 2 aka Serpent and the.

[Lexi]

Wolf Spoilers Next we of Fantasy Fangirls are adults who say adult things about adult books. In other words, friends, this podcast is.

[Nicole]

Rated R. Bondage is in the first chapter. You're welcome. So please be mindful of those little listening ears.

[Lexi]

Additionally, we are so excited to see you at upcoming live events. On March 6th through 8th in Dallas, Texas, Nicole and I will be podcast partners at Dreamers and Readers festival.

[Nicole]

Then on April 8th we are partnering with the Denver Nuggets and Rebecca Yarros for a fourth Wing themed basketball night at Ballerina.

[Lexi]

Plus, we are so excited to do a live show at the neptune Theater on April 19th in Seattle. Tickets are on sale now for you to dive deep into how to train your dragon with us.

[Nicole]

We can't wait. We will also be attending Fantastique's Starfall Ball on May 29th in Larkspur, Colorado.

[Lexi]

And we are coming back to the Dragon Gauntlet Chapter 3 in Boyne City, Michigan on September, September 11th and 12th.

[Nicole]

Check out our website or the links below for more information to all of these events, including a promo code for dreamers and readers.

[Lexi]

Last thing before we jump into the Serpent and the Wolf Fan Guide episode. If you love Fantasy Fangirls and want more events, more content, more community and so much more, please check out Fantasy Fan Club.

[Nicole]

We have three membership tiers that you can join which includes access to our Boppin, Discord, live Q&As, book clubs, yes, like the one we have for the Serpent and the Wolf, early access to ad free episodes, welcome gifts and so much more.

[Lexi]

Learn more and join the [e-mail] fanclub. The link is also in the show notes and really and truly, thank you so much for supporting us as we've turned this podcast into a dream come true. It's all because of you.

[Nicole]

And now it is time to go under the table together and kick it off with a spoiler free discussion on what you need to know before Serpent and the Wolf.

[Lexi]

So Nicole, without any spoilers, why did you love the Serpent and the Wolf?

[Nicole]

This book was campaigned hard for our Fantasy Fan Club Book club and a member was adamant that she knew Lexi and I would be obsessed with it. And it did end up getting voted on for that book club and unsurprisingly, it quickly became everything I want in a fantasy book. The world is rich, it's three dimensional. You can feel how much work Rebecca did in putting into here's how trade works, here's how politics work. Oh it's so vast it's so good. Then we have the characters. Vassa is one of my favorite FMCs I've ever read. She's smart, she's cunning, she's deeply flawed, which we love, but she's very realistic on her own mental health journey. And I just think it's. She's so beautifully written. I have no other words. And then there's Reid of Mireille. Oh, he is, full stop, one of my favorite MMCs. One of my top book boyfriends. I can't even call him a book boyfriend. He is book husband. I like it. He's just so perfect. He is really different from other MMCs because we've read a lot of, like, dark and broody and kind of more I'm gonna say, like, leaning towards the, like, I can fix the asshole kind of guy. Reid is a teddy bear and he is so kind while also still being sassy and having this beautiful banter. He is my dream. I love a golden retriever. He's great. I also want to do a quick plug because I've actually only read this book as audio. I've read it multiple times through audiobook. Brett's now read it with me. He loved this book and the audiobook is fabulous. I have never listened to anything by Jesse Valinsky before, and now she's one of my favorite narrators.

[Lexi]

Yeah, I think that it's pretty difficult to nail some main characters. Having accents and books and the way that this world is set up, it is so rich with languages and cultures and things like that. And it's really well done with these accents and you really feel those characters portrayed through those accents. I love it. I love it so much. And yes, Nicole, going back to what you were saying there at the beginning, this was one of those surprise book club reads where I went in blind and absolutely fell in love with the story, the world, the characters. Yes, there are a lot of politics and scheming in this book where you do have to pay attention, hence why we are doing this fan guide. Rebecca also has a handy dandy resource that helps us understand how the political system is set up. And once you get it, it's accessible on her website. It's pretty easy to follow once you kind of get all those puzzle pieces there. The rich world building is one of the reasons I absolutely love this book. It brings in economics and geographical resources. Political alliances, elections play a huge role in this book. And then exactly what you said about the characters, Vassa and have My Heart. Have we mentioned this is an arranged Marriage? I don't think we have yet. I absolutely love how Vassa is a political strategist and schemer and her character arc from the beginning to end is so beautiful. And like Nicole's saying, it feels really realistic. Found family trope for the win in this book and absolutely 100 million percent read. He is not a book boyfriend. He is book husband, full stop. These two main characters complement each other so well and they play off one another for good or for bad, where their scenes just feel so charged with electricity. Obviously this is no spoilers, but the last hundred pages is phenomenal. I still think about the ending all the time. I had so much fun going through it for part two of this episode here and I just still think about it all the time and truly cannot wait to read book two.

[Nicole]

Yes. Yes. All right, friends, now that we have shared our personal thoughts about Serpent and the Wolf, it is time to turn to our no spoiler cheat sheet, AKA what Fantasy Fan Guide is all about. So let's first offer a foundational understanding of the three main pillars of the Serpent and the Wolf story. First up, the world and the political systems. Secondly, how magic works in this world. And thirdly, our two main characters. Like we said earlier in the show. Have we mentioned this before? This will contain no plot spoilers. Instead, this is information you can reference as you get started with this heavy politics book.

[Lexi]

So let's kick it off with the world because geography and politics are very important for this story. Do you see why I love it? Like I can't even just contain myself right now. This continent is split into five nations. There is Asteria, the largest and theoretically most powerful nation.

[Nicole]

While very little is known of our FMC's home of Asteria, we do know that it is ruled by an emperor and the title is passed to down to the living son. If only a daughter exists, then the title is passed to the daughter's husband. This is very patriarchal society. Hysteria. Hysteria was once ruled by our FMC's father, Andre Kar, a deeply ambitious man. Also very, very cruel. It's okay, he's now dead. With the help of his closest advisor, Ozik, Andre conquered most of the continent. Which is why Asteria is giant on the map. In present day, Asteria is ruled by Andre's son Dominic, who is Vasilisa, our FMC's younger brother. He's a dick, to put it mildly.

[Lexi]

Another thing to note, Asteria is not friends with Ikeria. They are enemies. And Asteria is on a conquering mission.

[Nicole]

Speaking of Ikeria, let's talk about that next nation. This is where we spend the majority of our time. In book one, there are six city states that make up Ikeria and each has what's called a foreman which is equivalent to like a US Governor or a mayor of a big city.

[Lexi]

The foreman of each city state are elected differently based on their region and they have different term limits. For example, in Marae they have five year terms and in order to be selected they have to win a tournament of strength and wisdom. But then there's Rulfo. They have a 10 year term and in order to be selected you have to survive a fight to the death. Very different methods there. So that's the basics of the individual city state leaders, AKA foreman. Now let's introduce the headman position which is similar to a US President. Each city state and their foremans answer to this headman. The headman is responsible for the overall decisions of Icuria and serves for a 10 year term. How does one become the headman? I'm so glad you asked because it's actually very important to our story. The headman is elected from a pool of the current 6 foreman. So in order to become a headman you must first be a foreman. Only actively serving foremen are eligible to run and serve for the headman 10 year term. And the election is decided by the five previous foremen who ran for headman 10 years ago but lost. They became counselors to the current head man. These counselors are deciding the next headman. The capital city state of Icuria changes to wherever the headman calls home. Like I mentioned, the other five foremen that lost the election so serve as the headman's counselors and help vote and make decisions with the headman. They are his advisors. Okay, so let's quickly go through these Icurian city states as well as what they are known for.

[Nicole]

First we have Dara, which is the current capital AKA where the headman is from. This is the city of scholars and one of the richer cities and is rich in political power. While each city state in Ikeria has a subdality, basically a school. Dara is the most well known. Then there's iru which is known for fishing practices and Sagus, which builds ships and weapons. These first three cities all heavily revolve around each other because of resources. So Dera, IRU and Sigoth, all very heavily, are like a triangle of resources for each other. Next up we have Hazut, which provides men for military and also food and Rultho remember that city state that has the wannabe foremen fight to the death? That is Rultho. It's also very similar to Hazut. It provides men for military and food. These two heavy military city states heavily rely on each other. And lastly, but most importantly, because this is where our MMC is forming, we have Marais, which is known for salt. Marais is a rich city. Everybody needs salt and has more political power alongside Dura.

[Lexi]

So if you have any takeaways from this as we discuss resources. Marais has salt. So salt is essential to the economy.

[Nicole]

Yes, like literally, that is TL Dr. Salt. So that is Astaria and Ikira. There are also three other nations in this world. We have Zaatar, which is a large island to the east of Ica. We have Sezal, which is a thin nation along the far west side of the continent. And we have Ubithia, which is right in between Sasal and the Goliath Asteria. To be honest, we know very little about Sasal and Obithia and they're not really important for this fantasy fan guide.

[Lexi]

Okay, so that's the verbal map and politics. Now let's get into the extra fun stuff. Magic Witches are the ones with magic in this world and they have their own covens. In Icaria, three of the main covens or types of witches are the Vraji, which have black mist magic, the Zatar, who are gone and used to have deadly dark magic. And then there are the Zahia witches who can heal. We'll expand on all the covens and their deities in the spoiler section. I'm just trying to keep it simple for right now. The Varaji only have matriarchal lines, so only women can be witches. The Zetair could only have patriarchal lines which were only men. And the other covens both have male and female witches. The magic was passed down to mortals from the deities who once ruled the continent. Though no one has seen or heard from the gods since the Icurean unification, each city state's sodality in Icuria houses one particular coven. These are places for witches to study safely, to contribute to the literature and research surrounding magic, and to be home for witches who don't have one. Before the Icurean unification, a long time ago, wars between the six territories decimated the magical population in Icuria. And long before even the unification, the magical bloodlines ruled Icuria. But they wiped each other out and significantly reduced the witch numbers. That's how non magical humans rose in power and ultimately united the six independent city states in order to allow for.

[Nicole]

Trade and prosperity after the Icurean unification. The existing witch covens live under the United Icurean government, which basically means hooray, you're safe. However, they are able to maintain their own rules and cultures are secretive about their powers and their knowledge. The witch covens believe that magic is too precious a resource to share and that it should be studied, but most of all, protected.

[Lexi]

So that's what we have for the world of the Serpent and the Wolf. Now we're going to highlight the two main characters as our final part of this. No spoiler section. First up, we have our female main character, Vasilisa Kosar. She is the eldest daughter and heiress of Isteria. She has been trained by her, her ruthless, conquering father to be a sharp political strategist. She is cunning, calculated and very intelligent. She speaks a lot of languages too. Her father has passed away and now her brother Dominic is the Emperor of Asteria. And like Nicole mentioned, her brother is also an absolutely horrible person. Ever since her mother passed away not too long ago, this terrible dark magic has awoken within Vasa and has been eating her up inside to the point where it's believed she will probably die from it. She's riddled with anxiety, insecurities and trauma drama, and this dark power within her is not doing our poor girl any favors. It's like feeding on all of her terrible emotions. 2026 is around the corner and it is time for little ways to level up in life. BILT is the loyalty program for renters that reward you for your biggest monthly expense rent. With bilt, every rent payment earns you points that can be used towards flights, hotels, Lyft Rise, Amazon.com purchases, and so much more.

[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

There's a reason health leaders like Dr. Mark Hyman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and Dr. Jeremy London are all behind function. Because once you have your data, everything changes. You stop guessing. You start eating for your biology. You can be precise and choose the foods that actually address what your body needs. Because after all, food is truly medicine.

[Nicole]

I will not stop talking up function. It is because of function that not only I got my baseline test results done which actually showed that my heart was maybe not doing as well as it could be, and I switched a lot of things up and I'm really excited to get my next test and see how it goes. But I got the food sensitivity and allergies test and that is where I discovered that gluten, corn and dairy were not compatible with my body. So after some trial with not error, after looking at the function data, I figured out, oh my God, these actually do not work in my body and I have never felt better. I love function.

[Lexi]

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[Rebecca Robinson]

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[Nicole]

But next, let's talk about Reid, my man. Reid Kassadin is our male main character, also known as the Wolf of Mireille. He is the foreman of Marais. Remember, foreman are the city state leaders. So Reid is the leader of Mireille.

[Lexi]

And he is loved by his people, but he's not really one for politics. How interesting for these two main characters.

[Nicole]

How interesting indeed. It's very convenient that this book opens up on his wedding night to Vasilisa Kozar, the heiress of Astaria. And what a wedding night it is.

[Lexi]

And remember, Moray is one of the city states of Icuria and, well, Assyria's enemy. But this arranged marriage is considered a political ploy for both sides. All right, friends, that is all we have for our no spoiler section of today's episode. If you have not finished reading the Serpent and the Wolf, now is when we part ways. Goodbye. So long. Farewell. We'll miss you. Respectfully, please go away. Maybe go check out another episode. Go pick up this book. Whatever you do, don't listen to the rest of this unless you want to know exactly what happens at the end of the Serpent and the Wolf. I'm going to say this one more time. We are about to talk spoilers. If you do not want spoilers for the Serpent and the Wolf, this is your final warning that now is a good time to stop listening. All right, sounds good. Let's do this. Nicole is about to give us a whole book recap. Take it away, Nicole.

[Nicole]

In the Icurean city of Marais, Vasilisa Kozar, heiress of Asteria, prepares for her plan to escape her arranged marriage to the foreman of Marais, Reid Kasdan Vassadons a sexy red nightgown with the intention to ensnare her new husband, murder him in the heat of passion, and. Nope, the fuck out. Too bad she didn't account for her new husband's own fighting skills and the fact that he might not mind being tied up in slightly different circumstances. But bondage aside, Vassa escapes to the sodality in De Ra, where she spends the next three months studying her curse, Dun dun dun under a false name. And she lived happily ever After. Just kidding. One day, while Vassa is studying in the sodality, news spreads through the library that a foreman is visiting. Welcome back, Reid of Marais. And her hubby has plans. He knows about her major air quotes curse, and he knows someone who can help. All Vassa has to do is agreed to act as his wife for three years. And with a crisp high five and a totally not at all well matched couple set to sail back to the city of Salt Marais, Reed holds up his end of the deal, taking Vassa to meet the high witch of the Varaji, Melusina, who he conveniently forgets to mention is his mother. But that little detail aside, Melusina and the other Viraji witches help Vassa realize the truth. She is not cursed, but has Vairagi witch magic in her veins. And with a little faith, a little trust, and hold the pixie dust, they teach her how to harness that power. Training montage for the next two weeks, Vasa is running two miles a day and spending countless hours learning the limits and dangers of her magic. But after two weeks, just running around isn't quite doing it anymore. Vasa needs something more like sparring. Perhaps her opponent, Commander Kasana herself. Face down, ass up. That's the way she liked you. What? Get her ass kicked, that's what. Vassa's not looking so good. And Reid is.

[Lexi]

That is a very different with the lyrics.

[Nicole]

I mean, I go away from my old dagger. Reed is pissed that his new wife is pummeled by his commander, but who could be upset when it leads to a who did this to you? Moment Kill Swoon. Due to her little stunt of beating up his wife, Reid has Kasana removed from her role and replaced with the one, the only Asoti, AKA Kasana's wife. That's gonna be one awkward dinner. Three weeks later, things are going surprisingly well, and the politics are politick. Vassa and Reid find themselves in a surprise meeting with the counselors that night at the villa, Vassa's emotions get the best of her and her power explodes, cloaking the area around her in darkness. Don't worry, Vassa. You're not the only one who's lost control. At least you didn't level a building.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Cough.

[Nicole]

Cough, Amelie, cough. After not dying from her accidental magical induced blackout, Vassa finds herself bonding with Amelie, making her first official friend in the coven and ever. But the time for sunshine and rainbows over the day has finally come for Dominic. Vassa's not so large, but very much in charge Brother and the emperor of Astaria to visit. Reid, with the help of Vassa, navigates political discussions with Dominic with ease. For the most part, Dominic is laying the stones for his own plan and is trying to force Vassa into helping Dun Dun Dun. Vassa helps get her husband elected as the headman of Ikeria. Dominic uses that to establish a heavy air quote trade route, and within the year, Vassa gets her freedom. The Delulu is strong with this one. If he thinks that's going to work. Reid. Vassa and Reid's trusty advisor, Mathjin, board a ship to the capital De Ra for the headman election. Not long into their journey, shit absolutely hits the fan. They get ambushed by Roltho soldiers. But wait, why are they speaking Astarion? That's a problem for later. Reid is tied up, and Vassa's about two seconds away from becoming a widow. Unleashing her magic, Vassa knocks the Asterian general unconscious. Did we also mention that's her cousin? But on a brighter note. Finger bang, finger bang, fingery bang. I said you're not sleeping on the couch tonight, Reid. Bang. In the city of De Rad, the political chess is well underway, and every foreman is playing their part. Some backing Reed, others working hard against him. Speaking of working against him, during their trip, Reed participates in a fighting tournament in which during his match against the foreman of Rutho, an oily black beast materializes and kills not the foreman, but instead Vassa's cousin. But something about this creature is familiar. The remnants of its magic are the same as when her mother died. Or should I say when her mother was mur dard. After the attack, a group reconvenes at the high temple in Derah. Turns out that oily beast is called a Mirodag, a creature that only belongs to a Z'tir witch, one of the different witch covens. Also the witch coven that no one has seen in centuries. Legasp. This wasn't a random attack, but a planned one. And the foreman of Rultho Thon blames Vassa as the culprit. Ignoring the impending political war, Vassa and Reed sit down and have a heart to heart. He wants to amend their agreement, removing the time limit completely. Reed wants as much time with Vassa as he can get. Oh, and bang, bang, bangity bang. I said, can you be my husband, too? Bang. Nah, I love him. Sadly, not everything can be full of satisfaction and ecstasy. Amelie is missing, but in her quest to find her friend, Vassa is knocked unconscious. On the bright side, she found Amelie and discovered the traitor. Huzzah. Downside, it's Reid's trusted advisor, Mathjin, who is working with Dominic to start a war. Using Amelie as leverage, they force Vassa to write a letter to read. But Vassa's limit has officially been reached. Using her magic, Vassa snuffs out her brother's air before going all off with his head. Die, Dominic, die. But remember that letter that they forced her to write? Well, it's a good thing Reid's not an idiot. And it doesn't take long for him to read between the lines and figure out that something is very, very wrong. But there's one more twist waiting in the wings. Remember that oily beast, the Miro Dag? The Satir witch controlling it is Ozik, Dominic's closest advisor. What dismantle the establishment Kool aid? Are the advisors drinking? Homeboy has been busy making bargains in secret in an attempt to claim the Asterian throne. Ozik uses his magical oily monster to kill Reed in an attempt to force Vassa's hand. And it works. Vassa agrees to a bargain with Ozik. She surrenders her magic to him in exchange to renew Reid's life. One week later, when Reid finally awakens, he learns what Vassa has done, but also congrats, my guy. Reid, you're the new headman elect. And with Dominic gone, and as Vassa's husband, you're also the emperor of Asteria. But none of that matters because where is his wife? It's time to get his wife back.

[Lexi]

While we discussed in the no spoilers section about why we love this book, please don't mind as we share our very spoiler reasons now as well. The care that goes into this world building truly is next level. And yet the biggest standout of the Serpent and the Wolf is Vassa's journey. Three scenes in particular live rent free in my head a year after I read this book for the first time. One that I know Nicole was about to mention under the dining table, so I'm going to skip over that and let her share. But it's truly so beautiful and I love it. It gives me chills. And then second is the ship scene where Vassa's anxiety is getting the better of her and her magic is feeding on it, getting dangerous, and she's having a panic attack and Reid helps her work through it. And his acceptance and support of helping her through her anxiety is a low key highlight of the book. And yes, in the scene, his methods of helping her unwind include A relaxing finger bang. And then my third favorite scene is really just the whole ending, but specifically when Bass Shadow Wolf forms this literal embodiment of her character journey, rising up with strength and security and confidence. And Reed is called the Wolf. So of course her magic takes a wolf shadow form to stall. And then after she's forced to frame herself with a letter, she makes a grand appearance, walking up to all these leaders, holding her brother Dominic's head and saying to Math Jin, you're next. I am in my feminine rage era right now. I fucking love this shit. I see this so clearly. And I need the fan art.

[Nicole]

I could not agree more with everything you just said. And I'll be the first to admit that when I was reading Serpent and the Wolf for the first time, so much went over my head, and yet it still was one of my favorite reads. And then rereading it, you just fall more in love with it. Oh my God. I love an arranged marriage trope. It is one of my favorites. Almost 9 out of 10 times. It is a hit the nail on the head. This is a 12,000 out of 10. Their love story is so beautifully paced. It feels so natural. And read his one liners of Breathe Wild One or Dance With Me Like Lovers do or my personal favorite that skyrocketed him up into my book boyfriend or book husband, whatever. Top list was. What do you need to be okay. Oh my. I remember Brett and I were reading Serpent and the Wolf and we were listening to it and Reid said that and Brett stopped what he was doing and turned to me and he was like, that was inspiring. And he's used it a few times.

[Lexi]

I love reads so much. And then just the way that Thassa wears his shirts to bed, that's another one of my little micro tropes that I absolutely live for. And when he realizes she does not wear anything underneath, like their whole, like, who's sleeping on the couch? Who has blankets? Like that whole thing throughout the first, what, two thirds of the book or something like that is absolutely hilarious.

[Nicole]

So good. But it's not only Reed's lines that give me all the feels like you mentioned Lex. There's this element of this foundation family trope, and it is a fundamental pillar of this book within the Viraji witch coven. Which brings me to the scene Lexi was alluding to that I think about, I kid you not, literally every single day of my life since I've read this book. When the whole witch coven joins Vassa under the table. Vassa is having a really tough moment believing that her magic is a curse within her and how this snake that's coiled up within her is, like, ready to strike and that she's broken because of it. All of them get under the table with her and share this moment of your strength is my strength. And Lexi and I have a group of friends that one shout out to the feminine fabled. Actually, I'm wearing her shirt right now. She got us all one of her designs that says it's a table, and then it says, my strength is your strength underneath it. And it's to represent that even on our hardest days, they will still hold us up just as we hold them. And, God, I just love that scene because that was one of the first moments that I really felt this true kinship. And like, I. I see our friendships represented on the page in this scene, and I just cannot read this scene without weeping uncontrollably. And Rebecca Robbins writing just makes it feel so real. I remember in our book club with her, she mentioned how that scene, she was weeping when she was writing it, and it had very little edits, actually. Like, it was one of those scenes that she wrote as a first draft. And almost, I think she said, like, 90% of it made it into the book, which is insane.

[Lexi]

That really is insane.

[Nicole]

I am just. I am so in awe at how Rebecca Robinson's writing makes us feel things so deeply, which is another reason why this book is just one of my top.

[Lexi]

Yes, absolutely. All right, so now let's get into everything we need to know from where Serpent and the Wolf leaves off as we head into wicked and the damned. I want to go back to the magic system now that we're in the spoilers section and go into a little more detail, because I think this is going to be very important for book two. It's my understanding that magic is believed to mostly be in icuria. It's not in hysteria. And remember that each of the covens are very secretive about their kinds of magic. They do not work together or share knowledge with the other covenants covens. Let's list off the members of the Viraji coven that Vassa is part of, Emera, her found family, and the animals that their black mist magic forms. So first we have Melusina, the high Witch of Varaji. She's also a sage. She is very powerful. She's also Reid's mom. So yay, it's Vassa's mother in law, and we know that her magic takes the form of a horse. Next up, we have Amelie, a younger Witch, who becomes Vassa's best friend. Her magic started as a cat that would not retreat its claws, and now it has manifested into a fox. Then we have Suma, whose magic takes the form of a hawk. Marina has a prowling tiger, Romana, a small bear. And of course, we have Vasilisa, whose magic at first presented as a snake and now, as she comes into her own, it manifests into a wolf. Viraji magic, named after the goddess Vraji, is generational. It's passed down from a mother to her eldest daughter. However, it only passes upon the witch witch's death. So witches only receive their magic after their mother dies. This means most Faragi witches do not inherit their magic until later in life, when they are more mature and better equipped to handle the new powers that can feel all consuming when it's activated within them. Age does not dictate how powerful a witch is, but experience does. The longer a witch has to master the magic, the more powerful a witch she'll end up being. This is why Vassa and Amelie are expected to be a very powerful duo. They are young and have many years ahead of them to sharpen their magical skills. The Voraji magical powers are a black mist, a force of raw power. It can smother air and light and sound. So now let's shift our attention to other witches and their covens and magical abilities. While magical abilities differ, all witches are plagued by the same issue. Only one living witch in the bloodline at a time. But unlike Faraji witches, other magical abilities are not as deadly of a force when they manifest. And it's more likely that these other witches will survive once when the magic is bestowed upon them. The magic that pulses through Icuria, where these covens reside throughout the six city states, is said to come from the deities themselves. Varaji was the goddess of witchcraft, which is where the Vraji witch's black mist magic comes from. The goddess Vraji had a love affair with Satar, God of language and writing. I find this so interesting because that's what Vasa is especially good at. You know, language and writing. But I'm flagging. So we all remember heading into the sequel, especially with Melusina saying that this is about a wrong committed many, many years ago, and one that the goddess Faraji intends to write. This is not just a war for mortals. I think the goddess Faraji wants to get revenge on something that happened to Satar, her lover. And Zahtir is the one who wronged them.

[Nicole]

Yes, there is a God named Sitar, which is Veraji's lover. That is S E T, A R and Z tier is Z e T, Y R. Little confusing, but I just wanted to spell that out just so people can visualize.

[Lexi]

The other witch covens are not only made up of women, like the Varaji witch magic. So both men and women can be witches, gifted their magic from the following deities. So there is Una, who is the God of history, justice and wisdom. Their coven is located in Deraa. No wonder they have the greatest library of all of them. The Una are the only coven that Viraji have been close to. And they do share some secrets with.

[Nicole]

With.

[Lexi]

And the Una have the magical power of light manipulation. Then we have the God of iron and ore, Imrose. This coven is housed in Sigoth. And their magical power is manipulation of metals. So they're the ones who create those very precise weapons and well crafted boats. Moving on. We have Zohar, the God of tides. And their coven is housed in eru. And they have the magical ability of, you guessed it, moving the tides. Next we have the goddess of life and healing, Zuhiya, who is a concert to Ymir, the God of of peace. The Zuhia coven is housed in Rollo, which I find very interesting because Rollo is known for its aggression and fighting, and their magical power is healing. So I guess maybe it does make sense because they're always getting all caught up there, so they need the healers. So with all of these magical abilities that the witches in different covens have, I think it'll be a big plot point for the Viraji to bring the covens all together to work together against the bad guys. Especially as they are already setting out to go to the other covens in Icaria's city states for book two. Speaking of which, there is one more coven where the magic is only passed down in the paternal bloodline. In other words, only boys can be Zatar witches. So Zatar was the God of bargains and souls. Ooh, how scary he was. The concert to Oonir, the goddess of war. Zatar magic is thought to be gone. It's a dark deadly magic. But Zatar can only bargain the use of their power. It cannot be willed without a trade. So examples of wielding this power that is fueled by bargains are summoning demon like creatures, the Miro Dag. And that magic is stemmed from making a bargain. The Zatir witches methods were awful and twisted. They could even conjure illusions and pretend to have magic. They did not truly Possess.

[Nicole]

So now that we have a good foundation of the magic systems, the worlds, the all these things, we have to discuss the crazy last few chapters and where everything left off for our key players in the lead up to the Wicked and the damned because my oh my, the chess pieces completely changed at the end of this book. Let's start with the Mathgin Dominic betrayal and the war that they're looking and itching to start. Using Amelie as bait to entice Vassa into their clutches. Mathgin reveals the himself as working against Vassa the whole time. Which leads us to a bad guy villain Download Mathgin. Reid's most trusted advisor hates what Vassa represents and her heritage of being Astarion. Many, many, many years ago, Mathgin's granddaughter, his daughter and his wife were all slaughtered by an Astarion soldier. And Mathgin begged Mark of Marais, who was the foreman before Reid, to go to war over this act of violence.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Violence.

[Nicole]

And Mark basically said it's not worth it. And now Mathjen sees an Astarion woman gaining power in Marais, possibly in all of Icuria, and he's like fuck no. So why not just kill Vassa? Ah, because he sees this as his ultimate opportunity to start the war he wants. He is forcing Vassa to write a letter to Dominic, air quotes betraying Icuria, detailing the route that the Icurian army would take that Reid and Ton, the foreman of Rutho agreed upon just a few days earlier. And that letter that is going to be written in Asterion, addressed from Vassa to Dominic, will be intercepted and brought to the Icurean government. Which will not only start a war between Icuria and Astaria, but it will also cost Reid the headman election and probably give it to Ton instead. I think about like, because they would see Iria as going to war, it would make sense to have a foreman move up to headmanship who was from a city state that is experts in war. But this was not only Mathjen's idea. No, no, it is also Dominic's. They had a deal, you see. If Mathjen brought Dominic Vassa, Dominic would then kill the general who murdered Mathjin's family. But what Mathjan doesn't understand or might not just fucking care about is that Vassa, more specifically Vassa's husband, is the greatest threat to the Asterian emperorship. If Dominic dies or Cough Cough is murdered, then it is Reid who becomes Emperor of Asteria. So Dominic wants to get his sister off the board, meaning no one can threaten his Rule. This is where Vassa throws out her magic. Remember, for the vast majority of this book, her magic has been a point of shame. Same for Vassa. She grew up thinking this serpent shaped Misty Blackness was a curse. And when she learned from her fellow witches in the coven that all of their Viraji magic started out as a different form, but then they unlocked it and it took different shape, this is when it became a companion to them. And that's why, in this moment, facing off against Dominic, Vassa's serpent officially becomes a wolf. Pause. A round of applause for Rebecca Robinson. Because this whole book, I was thinking, thinking the serpent was Vassa and the wolf was Reed. What you're supposed to think. But then to learn that the wolf is actually what represents Vassa all along. Chef's kiss.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So the whole.

[Lexi]

So the title of the book is literally Vassa's two selves.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yes.

[Lexi]

And it really is literally an embodiment of her character journey from the beginning, when she was a serpent, when she just felt like a political tool to the end, when she was embracing her love for the wolf of Moray, when she was finding her own power, when she was finding her bond, her wolf pack.

[Nicole]

She has a wolf pack? Yes. This is the FMC empowerment journey that just makes me weak at the knees and weep. All of this to say. The wolf kills Dominic, wiping the Emperor of Asteria off the board.

[Lexi]

Yes. And Vassa finally gets to take her revenge out on him. I love this shit. So that's the math Gen betrayal. And Vassa coming into her power to take down her brother. The letter Math Jin made her write to seem like a traitor to read it did not work. He saw the final line that Vassa wrote and he recognized it as her code that she is being framed. He picked up on that immediately. Vasa and Amelie come back to where everyone is gathered for the election in this main quad. And this is when shit really hits the fan. Because Tan of Rollo, the bloodthirsty foreman competing against Reed for the headman position, is also in cahoots with the bad guys of Asteria and Mathjin.

[Nicole]

It's a coup.

[Lexi]

Men in Rolfo attire flood the main quad. The Rolfos are fighting against their fellow Icurian city state people. It's a huge fight with the witches using their black mist magic. Todd is killed. Yes. Matthjen is killed by Reed. Double. Yes. I also just love how he's like, I need to be the one to do this. Like, this is so up of my advisor.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Oh.

[Nicole]

He goes like Full like nail. I'll rip your throat out with my teeth.

[Lexi]

This is for my wife. This is for my father. This is for my people. Twists.

[Nicole]

They're not done twisting, but because it's time to get into Ozik and his big reveal at the end, up on the platform in this quad where all the foremen are jumps in a Miro Dag Tldr, a dark magical beast only Zatir witches can cast. Remember, z'tir witches have not been seen in a long, long time. And it is revealed that Ozik, a long, long time Asterian advisor, is a Zatir witch. We've talked about Zahtir witches and their magic, but because of how big of a deal this is and how we are absolutely seeing this as a huge part of next book, this is worth rehashing. Z'tir witches have dark, dark magic, but to cast it, it always comes at a cost.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Cost.

[Nicole]

A bargain must be struck, and a demon manifests off that bargain power. Ozik's manifestation is a Miro Dag, much like how we see Vassa's as a wolf's or Amelie's as a fox. So remember, these dark manifestations only happen because of bargains. I'm assuming this is from the bargain that Dominic and Ozik have bargained, but it has not been fulfilled yet. We don't know what that bargain is, but I'm assuming that's why this particular mirror Dag manifested.

[Lexi]

Let's ask Rebecca that, because I think that you and I actually had some different takes on this, and I'm very curious to see what she thinks, because I was under the impression that this mirror Dag might be a culmination of all these different bargains that Ozik has been making over the years, or specifically, like, more recently, as they are, like, on the attack. Yes, I know that you're saying they're with Dominic, but with Dominic dead now. Yeah, let's add. Ask Rebecca.

[Nicole]

Let's ask that, because we do not know the contents of the bargain between Dominic and Ozik, or I should say the most recent bargain between Dominic and Ozik. I am assuming, though, it is going to come to light in book two, and I'm assuming that the bargain, yes, it ends with Dominic on the Asterian throne or his bloodline on the Asterian throne, because we know that Vassa in book two has a new fiance, and I'm wondering if this new fiance is. Is Ozik's son.

[Advertiser Voice]

We don't really.

[Nicole]

I don't really remember anything about his Son. But then if Vass's new husband, Ozik's son, they get married, that means Ozik's son would be Emperor, AKA his bloodline would be. I'm digressing.

[Lexi]

Never mind.

[Nicole]

Well, we'll talk to Rebecca.

[Lexi]

This is the one little thing I can't speak to because I. The very few chapters I did read of Wicked and the Damned, I know a little bit more, so I'm going to keep my mouth shut. Right now.

[Nicole]

We'Re on the topic of bargains and their implications for book two. So let's talk about another bargain that we have heard from Rebecca will be absolutely coming into play in the Wicked and the Damned. Ozyk has made many, many bargains, one of which was with Vassa's mother before she died. The bargain was for Vassa's father's life, so she, Vassa's mother and Ozik could be together and rule well.

[Lexi]

Yes, they poisoned Andre the king. I remember it seeming like it was something like the flu or something. Yeah, yeah.

[Nicole]

And like, listen, Andre was not a good dude, but this was not what I was expecting. We know that Vassa's mother was running away from something. Melusina always assumed it was Andre, her husband. But at the end of the book, Mellicina's surety in the fact that Vassa's mother was running away from Andre, it's not really as concrete as it was prior.

[Lexi]

Yes. So Vassa's mother wanted to ensure her daughter would go to Marae and be trained under Melusina and become part of her coven. Vassa's mother spent time in Marais and was good friends with Melusina. When she left to go back to Asteria, she said it was too late for herself, but Melusina could still help her with Vassa. So that's why she and Melissina secured this arranged marriage. It's their way to get Vassa away from Asteria and to the Viraji witches who will help her. Vassa's great grandmother was the founder of the Varaji Covenant, so her maternal roots do trace back here.

[Nicole]

But Vassa's mother was murdered, assumably by one of these Miro dags. I am foaming at the mouth to learn more about this, about the murder, about what she was running from.

[Lexi]

I don't think it was necessarily a murder, per se. No, it was also her own magic was consuming her because she did not make good on her end of the bargain. And we still not know the full story behind this. It's purposefully left vague for us at the end of book one. But we do strongly assume that Vass's mother knew she was going back on her bargain with Ozik, and she sacrificed herself to help her daughter get to where she needed, since that's part of the bargain magic. If the source, Vass's mother went back on her end of the deal, she forfeited her life. The only bargain that we know of is to get rid of the father, get rid of the king. And there's a whole lot more to all of this that we just don't know yet.

[Nicole]

I'm dying. I want to know more.

[Lexi]

Okay, so that's talking about previous bargains and how Ozik's dark magic works. Ozik purposefully puts Vasa in a position where she cannot refuse. Making a bargain with him. He has his dark magic demon kill Reed right here on the platform. Yes, Reid is dead. Bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad. But you see, Ozik is happy to bring Reid back from the dead with his powerful magic if, and only if, Vassa strikes a bargain with Ozyk. Reid's life is the only thing she would ever consider breaking to Ozik for, and the asshole knows it. The only way to bring our book husband back is for Vassa to surrender her magic to Ozik, and in exchange, he will renew Reid's life. All we know with where this leaves Vassa is that after she makes the bargain with Ozik, once she sees Reid breathe again, she can feel her power leave her. And Ozik and the soldiers put a rope around her neck and cover her mouth and nose with a cloth that smells like poison. And she goes. Night. Night.

[Nicole]

Okay, so that's Vassa's book one story ends. Kidnapped and magic less. Not great. Let's talk about Reid. Or should I say resurrected Reid first. Reid's whole goal of book one was to be the headman of Icuria. And congratulations, Reid. You are officially headman elect Cohen, who is the foreman of the capital. Dera is pissed. And I can almost guarantee that is going to come back into play in book two. And with Dominic now dead and as Vassa's husband, that means Reid is now the emperor of Asteria, which is mighty.

[Lexi]

Convenient, even if there's no way, Jose, that Ozyk will let that be the case.

[Nicole]

Not at all. But I'm gonna relish in it all I can. But at the end of the day, none of this new political standing matters to him. He has been recovering for a little over a week, and we have quite the download. Catch up from Mama Melasina. We know that while she cannot feel Vassa's magic, she knows it's still there. Yes, thank God. And she knows that Vassa is still alive. Double thank God. Also, Amelie has gone after Vassa, so she is missing too. And as head of the coven, this causes Melusina a lot of hurt and stress to have two of her witches missing. We also know that Viraji, the goddess, not the coven. The goddess spoke to Melusina for the first time in years. But it was where to find Vassa when she was captured by Mathgin, not where she's been since she went with Osik. So she can feel Vassa, but it's only pain. Immeasurable, immeasurable pain. I'm concerned. Valesina asks two very good questions that I am very cautious about. When going into book two, they have Varaji, the goddess, on their side. So then who or what is on Ozik's side? We know that the God of the Zatir witches is Zahtir, God of bargains and souls. This is cause for so much alarm. I'm so concerned.

[Lexi]

And going back to the God and goddess relationships, the God Zeteer's consort was the goddess of war. That's not good. No.

[Nicole]

Especially in if a Zatir witch, Ozik, is working with Rolfo, which has.

[Lexi]

Yeah, that's bad.

[Nicole]

That's so bad. Oh, God. Closing out this section for Reid. Let's go into his goals for book two. Overall goal is get his wife back, which is hot.

[Lexi]

Where is my wife?

[Nicole]

I love a where is my wife? Trope.

[Lexi]

And in the accent that the audiobook.

[Nicole]

Has taken, you know, I'm starting this book the second this recording is over.

[Lexi]

I'm starting Wicked and the Damned.

[Nicole]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Lexi]

Oh, yes.

[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

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[Lexi]

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[Nicole]

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[Lexi]

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[Rebecca Robinson]

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[Nicole]

But with this political power and as headman and emperor, this means going to war full stop. I am assuming a lot of the beginning of next book will be him starting a war, getting the moving pieces. But remember the two cities in Icuria who specialize in warfare are Rolfo and Hazut. Rolfo royally fucked over Reed and tried to start a war with Masten. I don't see him going to Rolfo even though Rolfo doesn't have a foreman right now and just them saying yeah sure we're going to follow you Reid, just because you're headman elect. I think the fact that he's not sworn in as headman yet is going to cause a lot of political discourse next book unless he gets sworn in very early. Don't blink. Don't. Some other rapid fire questions I have going into book two are how are the Viraji witches going to fight back if we lose a Viraji witch? I don't know how I'm going to cope. I'm so sorry for bringing that up. Oh God. Also, does Vassa want Reid to find her subconsciously? Yes, of course she does. She made a bargain with Ozik for Reid to be resurrected. There is bargain magic at play. This is so much more complex than save wife he. Because the magical consequences of breaking as a tear bargain is death. So who would be the sacrifice? I don't, I'm, I'm like not to go back to a Viraji which is going to die next book. I don't know why.

[Lexi]

I don't know why we need some clarification on these. We are. I don't know because technically as long as Vassa's magic is still surrendered, she is upholding her into the bargain. And I believe that also has to happen to the per. It is the source. Like there's not a, a different sacrifice. The other variety witches are not going to get sacrificed because of this bargain network because it would only be Vasa who would face the consequences. Or so what I think this could happen is if this bargain is not, I'll say completed already because that's kind of what it seems like. If it's not and there is still an open end, then potentially they could get rid of Ozik. Like for instance. I'm not saying this is going to happen. But Reid could die again.

[Nicole]

Oh, my God.

[Lexi]

He does not have his life renewed. But again, we don't know how that works. So I want to ask Rebecca if the bargain is considered complete, and therefore there are no further consequences.

[Nicole]

Also, as Melusina states, this is bigger than a war between mortals. This is now gods and goddesses being involved. How is this going to work? I am so excited and so, so scared.

[Lexi]

All right, well, I'm so excited. Let's move on to our part three of this episode and chat with Rebecca.

[Nicole]

Welcome, welcome, welcome. Rebecca Robinson, author of the Serpent and the Wolf, dear friend of fantasy fangirls, goddess living among us. Hello.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Hi.

[Nicole]

Oh, my gosh. It is an honor always to talk to you in any capacity. And just thank you, thank you, thank you for coming onto the show and talking to us about the wicked and the damned and the lead up to this incredible book. Yes, thank you.

[Lexi]

How are you doing?

[Nicole]

Good.

[Lexi]

Okay, let me rephrase that. How are you feeling about the release coming up?

[Rebecca Robinson]

I'm so excited. The wicked and the damned. This book, it really takes everything that I wanted to build off of Serpent and just takes it where I really wanted it to go. And this book is so twisty, and it's a little bit darker, and it's got, like. It's just. I'm just so excited, and I'm so excited for everyone to, like, really get a good look at all of the things that Vasa is capable of, because there is a lot.

[Lexi]

I'm so excited.

[Nicole]

I have chills. Oh, my God, I'm so excited.

[Lexi]

As much as I want to just dive right into talking about whatever morsels we can get out of you here regarding book two.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Sure, sure.

[Lexi]

We're nice.

[Nicole]

We promise. Let's ask some questions about. About book one and just your journey with writing it and building this world, because, oh, my God, it's rich. Starting off with your favorite scene. What was your favorite scene in the Serpent and the Wolf and why?

[Rebecca Robinson]

My favorite scene is when she goes to the stallity and they all crawl underneath the table together. You mean this one?

[Nicole]

That's the one.

[Rebecca Robinson]

That is my favorite scene. Because, like, when I set out to write this book, I knew I wanted to write, like, in the romantasy genre. I knew that for me, I can't quite have my fantasy without my romance, and I can't quite have my romance without my fantasy. But I really wanted to move past just the immediate love relationship. And for me, the writing of the coven has been one of the most healing and fun and amazing things to do. And so Vassa's journey, especially in that scene, is really powerful. There were hardly any edits that we made to that scene from the conception. And, like, from when I. When I wrote it to when it was published, that was the one that we really didn't touch that much because it just flowed and it was like one of those scenes, I don't know. And it just. I love Vassa's, like. Like, first true moment of vulnerability. And it's just. I love the scene. I love it.

[Lexi]

So when making Reid, what was most important to add about him? Like, I remember during book club, which I can't believe was last year now, you mentioned how it was important to you that he did not have magic. So curious about, like, why that is, as well as what other qualities were really important, because he is book husband material.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Thank you. So I. When I first, like, started writing the series, I really wanted to write, like, one of those, like, gnarly bad guys, you know what I mean? Who, like, you know, like, I really. I was, like, really gonna. I was gonna do it, like.

[Lexi]

But dad.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Right, exactly, exactly. Because I love to read them, but read, read. Refused as a character, he refused. He was like, nah, that's not me, bro. And so there was nothing I could do about it. So I. As I started writing him more and especially into, like, editing his character, I, like, the single most important thing to me was that I wrote an enemies to lovers story that did not involve the male main character, like, abusing in any way our female character. Which is not to say that I don't absolutely love to write these male or listen, read, listen. To write these male characters in a variety of ways. There's no wrong way, right, to do this. But for me, this was the right way. And it. I just wanted to show that men have absolutely the capacity to be unbelievably powerful without having to be diminishing of women. And that, to me, was like, Reid's ultimate thing when I started writing him. And I think that that's what plays into the magic piece. I needed him to be ordinary in that way. I needed him to. I needed him to inherently be in a relationship in which the woman has a leg up, she has something a bit more powerful than him, and it's. You know what I mean? Like, I needed that, and I needed him to still be, like, extremely powerful, even. So. And I wanted him to just be, like, absolutely obsessed. Like, absolutely obsessed. He's like, she could kick my ass. And I. I want her so much. You know what I mean? I needed that. So that's. Reid is like, everything. I love him.

[Nicole]

What were some of your favorite Easter eggs to put in the book regarding specifically Mathjin and Ozik's eventual betrayals?

[Rebecca Robinson]

So there's this scene that I added later, and it's where Matchen and Vassa are talking about, like, the economy, right? She's like. She's like, all right, let's talk. Let's talk about economics, right? Which, you know, believe it or not, that was, like, a very long scene. We did, in fact, talk economics. Eventually, my critique partner, bless her soul, was like, becca, I know that you love this. I know that you love this, right? And I love it because you love it. But as a reader, I do not need this info.

[Nicole]

I'm like, damn it. Like, you're so familiar.

[Lexi]

You are my spirit writer.

[Rebecca Robinson]

I did. There was so much information. She's like, babe, you don't need to detail the way that the wood is sourced for the. For the ship. So I'm not gonna put that on it.

[Nicole]

But I do my head sourced from this.

[Lexi]

Tell me right now.

[Nicole]

No, I can't. Ooh. All right.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So that scene in particular, I was like, okay, this scene. Cause every time that I'm writing, whenever I go through my scenes, I always think to myself, like, okay, I have like a. It's like a. It's like a spreadsheet, and I call it like my conflict matrix. And I have all of the conflicts that I'm trying to juggle in this book. And then I have all of the scenes, and I have to tick off which conflicts this scene adds to or enhances or moves along. And if I go through. And as I'm going through, if it doesn't take any of those things, I'm like, damn it, cut your darlings. Like, it's gotta go. It's gotta go. And it's like my very, like, like, specific way of making sure that this happens. And unfortunately, this scene just did not tick any of the boxes. It was like, ticking the world building box. But I was like, okay, not enough. Because you can't just have a scene that world builds. It has to have some sort of movement forward. And I was like, okay, wait, but could I put conflict into it? I'm always like, okay, this is actually an opportunity, this scene. What else? What else can I put in here? And that's where the entire conversation with Masjin occurs. And that scene is like, nothing but Easter eggs, right? She's like, why does he not have a Feeling family and like, why would he choose to be here? And he says, like, it's a balancing of victims, right? Which, like, I would consider that quote deeply. And it like, she takes that with her through the entire series. And so it's these moments where you're kind of looking at Math Jen, like, oh, there's more to him here. Oh, please excuse my cat, who is about to. Literally, he has no personal boundaries. So, yeah, that scene has. It's got so many, so many. And then like the entire scene where Dominic is there and they're going back and forth and they're doing their little, like, trade negotiations and all of that. And Matthew is like, he knows what's going on because he speaks hysterian, right? And so it's like half of that conversation is like, is he having that conversation with Vassar? Is he having it with Math Jen? Dominic knows that mathjin speaks hysterian because Dominic has been communicating with Matthew, right? And like, Ozik knows. And so it's like this entire conversation that Vassa thinks she's like, on top of the world, thinks she's like, so freaking clever and she is, right? But, like, she doesn't realize, like, she's getting played in that moment and it's by somebody that is in the room with them that's supposed to be on their side.

[Lexi]

All right, so we gotta talk about the politics here and specifically how much of the political structure, economics, all of that did you have mapped out before you started writing?

[Rebecca Robinson]

I knew I curious in its entirety before I even started. Well, okay, that's not true. I wrote the first chapter of the book and I was like, oh, my God, I love this chapter. What the hell is this? Wait, what's happening? I'm supposed to be writing another book right now and querying another book. Like, I'm literally like days from taking this book out on submission, like, to agents, right? Like, I hadn't even had an agent yet. And I just wrote that first chapter and I was like, hold the phone. Pause everything. Oh my God, we're writing this book. And I could not stop. And so that's when I started building ia. I have a, like, really good friend, like one of my best friends from high school who is like a world builder extraordinaire, like, best person to brainstorm with. He's so fun. And so he came over and we, like, did the whole thing and we have a way of doing it. He's helped with every book I've ever written in the world building aspect because he, like, gets my. He, like Gets my brain and we go back and forth. So we built everything. Once I had Ikeria, I was like, okay, I know what I'm doing. Asteria's politics are built a lot more in book two.

[Nicole]

Two.

[Rebecca Robinson]

And I needed to. I needed to build that out to write book two.

[Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

We always ask, like, are you a panther or a plotter? And I'm leaning obviously towards with you mentioning plotting out a curia. Or would you say you're in the middle? Would you say you're definitely more of a plotter?

[Lexi]

Where.

[Nicole]

Where would you say you lie on that skill?

[Rebecca Robinson]

I'm a plotter. Big time plotter. I would even. Okay, maybe even I'd say like a plantser in that I. I plot everything, like to an absolute T. I have to work out the entire world before I can start writing. But I don't work out the entire plot before I start writing. I work out like a little bit of it and then I write that, those pieces. And then I'm like, okay, cool. Because usually halfway through a scene, my characters or something are going to tell me a different story. Like, we're going in a different direction. I didn't expect it to go. Here I am a discovery writer in the like line version of writing, but I'm definitely a plotter in like the macro parts of writing. So I plotted everything but that. Then it changed. But I was definitely obsessed with Ikeria's governmental style from the very beginning. I knew where that was going. I knew what I wanted it to do. That one was. That one was well thought out, pivoting.

[Nicole]

Slightly to Vassa and her mental health journey that she goes on specifically in book one. Going back to the plotting aspect, did you plot out each beat of her emotional journey or was that something that you really discovered along the way? Especially like. Especially when it came from the serpent to the wolf.

[Rebecca Robinson]

It was a combo of both. Yeah.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So Vasa started to me is actually funny enough, it was a therapy exercise. So I love this. Supposed to write a book.

[Lexi]

I've been really curious to hear this. Yeah.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yeah. I had like. I had a health scare that like really sort of changed the way that I was viewing my own body. I was disappointed in myself. There was a lot happening and it was a really intense time in my life at. And I was absolutely seeking therapy, as I think all people should. And it started out as like an exercise. It was like right about essentially when I was writing Vasa. At the start, it was like low key. All of the things that I was mad at. Myself for, like, it was. I was putting that. It not like, to the details and exact. Right. Because this is fiction and we write fiction. But those feelings of self loathing, which is, I really think is Vasa's ultimate issue, right, is that she hates herself at the start of the book. And so I really. I harnessed that. And I was writing this character and writing, like, dialogue by this character and not like, scenes or anything like that, just dialogue and these sort of thoughts. And it really. It started out as an exercise that was given to me by a therapist, and I kept writing it, and I was like, why do I love this character so much? And then that kind of made me pause and think to myself, wow, if you can love this character, why can't you love it?

[Nicole]

You.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Like, it's the same thing, right? Like, it's the same thing. And I swear to God, that's what. That's what the therapist meant for me to do. I stand on that. I think that was the ultimate goal. I think she, like, knew, and I think that's so funny. And so, yeah, her mental health journey was my mental health journey to a certain degree. And, you know, then I started going back and I was reading. I have the book actually right here on my desk. Story. GT Genius story. Genius Craft book. Craft book for y'. All. For anyone who's a writer. Absolutely amazing. And I started really considering the idea of, like, the third rail and how to write a third rail. And that's when I started really plotting out Vassa's characterization throughout the story. But that was more plot than it really was anything else. So. Yeah, mix of both.

[Nicole]

Well, I know I'm jumping the gun a little here, but when you look at book two with no spoilers, how would you phrase Vass's journey? Specifically, when I'm, like, talking, like, emotional journey regression.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Oh, sorry.

[Lexi]

I know. It's okay.

[Nicole]

I'm sorry I'm laughing. It's just not what I was. No, it is funny.

[Lexi]

Yeah, she was in quite the pickle at the end of book one. So Ro's gotta experience some things she.

[Nicole]

Needs to get back to.

[Rebecca Robinson]

To her.

[Lexi]

Boy.

[Nicole]

Guilt on your face.

[Lexi]

Hurt us.

[Nicole]

I love it when you hurt us. Please do.

[Rebecca Robinson]

It's darker. It's dark. I mean, you know, do you know that, like, quote that people say that's, like, character growth is being able to, like, go back to the same place that made you cry and, like, learn how to laugh or something like that, Which I don't know if I totally agree with that. We went ahead and we just sent her back to the same place. I wouldn't argue. She laughs, but that's okay.

[Advertiser Voice]

Oh, my God.

[Nicole]

I'm laughing.

[Lexi]

Oh, God.

[Rebecca Robinson]

It's a series. It's a series.

[Nicole]

Hold on. For books.

[Rebecca Robinson]

My thing, I think at one point, one of the. One of the comments that my agent left in this manuscript, I believe it was just O. Oh, yeah.

[Nicole]

Oh, I. I love the sassy editor comments that are just my favorite. Oh. Or mine. Mine wrote in all caps suffer.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Right. I appreciate how her O's went from like, oh to like O to like, oh. Like, there was so much O happening different. Yeah, totally. I knew exactly what she meant.

[Lexi]

Probably the reason that she is regressing. Let's talk about the Zetair witches. And I'm pretty sure that Nicole and I were pronouncing it incorrectly before. Now we're talking to Rebecca, So she has helped us understand how to pronounce correctly Zetair. Okay, so, so several questions here around these bargains, and I'll just kind of ask them one by one. Here is number one. What kind of bargains are we talking about? Like, for instance, is there more magic that someone like Ozik gets if he makes, like, a really, really big bargain versus a little bargain?

[Nicole]

Or does the mirror dak come out as a Chihuahua? If it's a little bargain, does it come out as, like, a nice big.

[Lexi]

We have several questions about that as well.

[Rebecca Robinson]

I am absolutely obsessed with the idea of a Chihuahua mirror dad right now.

[Nicole]

That's wild.

[Rebecca Robinson]

I'm gonna be finishing up book three, and I'm gonna be like.

[Nicole]

And the Chihuahua was like, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Amazing.

[Lexi]

Fancy fangirl strikes again.

[Rebecca Robinson]

That is so funny. Okay. The Zetair witches. Yeah. I wouldn't say that the magic is any greater or smaller, depending on size of the bargain, I would argue. I mean, we're an equal opportunity bargain people here. I feel like this is definitely something that everyone knows in book one, and it's that, you know, the magic essentially requires a bargain in order for them to access the raw, undefined, unrestrained magic. So they just have this well of power, and it is unrestrained, and it can pretty much do anything. Right. Which we learned in book one. I mean, God, it can bring somebody back to life, right? Like, it. It does all of that, right? But it has to have another person that says, do this. Right? So that is, like, the limitation of their magic is that it is solely dependent on somebody else. So they can do anything. They've got enough magic.

[Advertiser Voice]

Right.

[Rebecca Robinson]

But it just has to Be willed by another.

[Lexi]

I love this. So, okay, so thinking about Ozik in particular is there was a hint that he and Dominic had made a bargain. Is that what brought about the. Yeah. Is that what brought about the Mir Dag, or do we know or can you tell us anything about what that bargain might have been?

[Rebecca Robinson]

I would say that Ozik has a bargain with someone, with a lot of people, arguably throughout his time on this, in this story. I'm attempting so hard here, guys. He made a bargain with. With Bass Mother. Right, we know that he made that.

[Nicole]

Bargain for Andre's life.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yes. Yeah, Andre's life, seemingly to kill him. And there's a lot more to the story, I would say that. You know, and Ozyk says it very clearly that him and Vena are having an affair. Right. And it just. I think that lots of bargains are made between people who love each other over long periods of time.

[Lexi]

So then let's say once when a bargain is completed. So let's take Ozik's bargain with Vassa. She surrendered her magic and then he resurrected Reid, and so is that bargain considered complete now? So as long as she does not have her magic, that bargain is. But then if she gets her magic back, then that could be bad. I am totally asking spoilers at this point.

[Nicole]

I apologize.

[Rebecca Robinson]

No, I don't think you're getting into spoilers. I think you're getting into wonderful speculation. And I think it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. By the terms that are outlined in book one, then I think it is totally safe to assume that if Vassa were to take back her magic forcefully, she would kill Reid.

[Lexi]

I have one more question about this. Is there any previous bargains that Ozik has made, whether they were impactful or not that you could share with us?

[Rebecca Robinson]

I can't tell you any, but trust me, bargains, they're like so important. I loved getting to explore that in.

[Nicole]

The Wicked and the Damned, pivoting slightly to the gods, us doing rereads or prepping for book two. Which gods in particular should we be on extra high alert for? Especially given Melusina's warning at the very end of the book that this is no longer just a war for mortals.

[Rebecca Robinson]

All of them.

[Nicole]

Oh, cool.

[Lexi]

I have a follow up question. Are their relationships important? Because some of them have consorts. Like Viraji. She had a love affair with Sitar, and I think that the bad God of the. The God of bargains, he did something to her love and now she's out for revenge. That's my theory.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Oh, I love it.

[Nicole]

When we say theories right to the author's face, and they're like, yeah.

[Lexi]

No.

[Nicole]

I love hearing it.

[Rebecca Robinson]

I love hearing it. Yeah. I would say yes. Every single piece of information that I put in the first book about gods was as I was writing book two, and I wanted that information to be there, and I had, you know, I had, like, a word count limit that I needed to stay within. So if I was gonna put it in there, like, I. For sure, I had to be really selective about what I put in there. Yeah. Pay attention to them. Their relationships, maybe. But, yeah. I mean, mostly I think that it's just super important to understand and recognize that, like, the. The sodalities and the covens. Right. And all of that. Right. The sodalities of the schools that they're. That these people are learning at, but the covens are located within these schools, and they almost act, like, sovereign and autonomous from the government. Right. Like, they have their own way of doing things, and they don't necessarily like the government, and they don't like to share. Right. And that was made super clear during the election.

[Lexi]

And real quickly, that's kind of a big reason why Mireille is. Is like, the fact that Reed of Marais walked in with his wife as part of the Varaji coven and how they are behind their government, essentially in Marais. And that is kind of a big deal there to have that power of the witches behind them.

[Nicole]

Right.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yes. I just. I want you to remember that.

[Lexi]

All right, so, everybody, I'm so glad that we kept all the God information in this fan.

[Nicole]

Oh, thank God. So if you need a free list.

[Lexi]

Listening to that part, apparently it's very important.

[Nicole]

Well, I was gonna say we have a. We're gonna have, like, a graphic recap at some point, and I'm making a mental note that God's is its own page on this graphic recap now.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I have a spreadsheet. I have a spreadsheet. There's a lot that you have yet. You have yet to meet, but I love a meddling God. I love a meddling, selfish God. And so. Yes. Yes. And I just think it's really interesting how, like, most of the sodalities are named after the men, but the covens that live in those fidelities and that actually have magic are the women, which is, like, really weird that, you know.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Robinson]

There's a theme there. I like men that don't have powers.

[Nicole]

Oh, yes.

[Lexi]

Can you share more with us about how the witches get their magic from the Gods. And I'm going to specifically also ask about did the gods have a special relationship or connection to each of these Icarian city states or what they used to be beforehand, before the unification?

[Rebecca Robinson]

So, yes. So the magic is passed down right through these bloodlines. Okay. The bloodlines used to violently rule Ikeria, and they used to violently rule the city states. The first book tells, like, a really specific story about Rultho and about that city state and about how, you know, that's like where Zatar magic sort of hailed from. So it passes down from parent to child. Some of the covens are through the maternal line, some are through the paternal line, some are through both. Just depends on the coven. But the thing that stays true and rings true for all of them is that the magic can only exist in one generation at a time. So the parent has to die, right. For the magic to manifest. That being said, Melusina does specifically say that it can get a little funky sometimes. Sometimes it'll skip a few generations. Sometimes it'll be like, parent died. No magic is inherited. Three generations later, boom. Witch, right? Anything can happen. So she says, and she blames this sort of like on or attributes this to the God or like deity being very finicky and like, not wanting to be done with certain bloodlines. So she says specifically, she should have died. Right? Like, she inherited her magic on birth. Like that. That was like, incredible. Right. And it totally should have killed her. Right. But she says, like, I guess Faraji just wasn't done with me yet. Wasn't done with my bloodline yet. So it. Yeah, that's how it's passed down. And it is very dependent upon each coven. And each coven has their own way of wielding magic, has their own limitations and their own things going on. But they don't share that information because now that I care is united. And it's united under a government that is entirely ruled by non magical beings. Right. They. And their population has been dwindled so small. I mean, like, what, there's like six Varaji witches? I think six or seven max.

[Advertiser Voice]

Right.

[Rebecca Robinson]

It's really similar in the other covens. And so there's so few witches left that they're extremely protective of their magic and extremely protective of their information, because, as we know, information's a weapon.

[Nicole]

So one could imagine that if I, Keria, needs to go to war with, oh, I don't know, Asteria, it would be very difficult to gather all of the witches under a, for example, headman elect in order to go to hysteria yeah.

[Rebecca Robinson]

It would actually be, like, sacrilegious. Like, they simply. Their magic, it is against their culture, against their values, against everything. To capitalize on the magic for money or for wars. Are not allowed to. They can't, because that's what's going to kill them. Right. Like, if you start turning them into weapons, you're going to send them. You get ambitious men that want to go conquer things, right. And they're gonna send their witches out, and they're all gonna die. And, like, that's what happened during the witches war. That was a lot of what happened, is the covens turned against each other, and that's what led to iqiran unification, was because the city states were so violent with each other for so long that it was killing everyone, including the covens, which would probably be the only reason why the covens would agree to give up their political power. Right. It's because they wanted to live. They wanted to not be extinct.

[Nicole]

Going to the map, we have five nations. We heard, obviously, a lot about Assyria and a little bit about Zatar. Can you tell us about specifically Zatar and the two others and if or when we might see more of them?

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yeah, I would say that if I had a. Five or six books to write this series, we would go. We would. We would travel the world. We would go everywhere. I just. I think that Zatar is important for the purpose of trade. Right. Like, Reid specifically negotiates. And we talk about this in the first book when they go to that restaurant with the other. The other kids. Counselors. Right. And they were able to. The, you know, the drought in rule, though, and huzzah has absolutely just decimated their agricultural. Agricultural population. Right. Like, it's just. It's not happening in a particularly difficult summer. Right. He had negotiated with Zatar, and he would need the counselor's permission to do so. Like, he cannot. We learned about that with Ton. Like, he cannot negotiate with another. Another nation, like, without the permission of the council. Yeah. So he. We trade a little bit with. With Zatar, which I've gotten, like, a little bit of crap online because it's the name of a spice. And I think that's so funny. Right. Because I didn't even realize that until I did it. So I had to caveat that it's just like a silly little nation. I don't know. I just, like. I don't know. So don't tempt me with my spice watch, Rebecca.

[Nicole]

Oh, my God. I love a spice watch.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So. Yes. But whether or not we'll go There. I don't think so. There was only three books. The other two nations, I would just say, are, like, as a reminder that Astaria hasn't conquered everything yet, that there was still other places that Dominic could have gone. Like, it wasn't like Dominic had to go to Ikeria. And in fact, arguably, it would have been smarter to go towards Cesal or Ythuba, but he doesn't. Right. He targets Ikeria. Like, why? You know, and she says that. She's like, why are you doing this? Like, this is so brash. Like, you should have gone somewhere else. And she, like, outlines the entire way that she could conquer the continent. Vass is, like, all a day's work, you know? And so, yeah, that's. That's really, like, the important things about those. About those nations, I would say if I had more books, like, I could build out so much.

[Lexi]

So now moving fully here into Wicked and the Damned, questions, what are three very important takeaways from Serpent and the Wolf that we need to remember heading into Wicked and the Damned? I know that you've mentioned several, but, like, any three that really stand out, bits of information we should carry into book two.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Dominic had questions. Dominic had questions. He was asking her to answer and.

[Lexi]

About their mom. Huh?

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yeah. And she didn't want to answer. And. And he had questions. And I think it's really important to note.

[Nicole]

Is it bad to say I'm almost sad Dominic is dead? I'm not.

[Rebecca Robinson]

No, I hear you. I'm like, oh, I hear you. Oh, trust me, you'll have. You'll still have plenty of reason to be angry with this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. The Dominic hate never stops. Yeah. I'm a Dominic hater for life. So there's a lot of history to the covens and to magic that has yet to be revealed. Right. Like Melusina kept telling Vassa, focus on what you do know. Right. Because too much information at once might be a little bit overwhelming. So I would think about that, and. Oh, that Vassa has a past. She doesn't have a lot of friends back in Hysteria.

[Lexi]

All right.

[Nicole]

I have been patient. I have been so patient. I have to finally ask this question.

[Rebecca Robinson]

I have a feeling I know what it is.

[Nicole]

You know exactly what it is.

[Lexi]

Oh, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Robinson]

I'm listening.

[Nicole]

Madam, you teased us on social media that you can't wait for us to meet Bass new fiance. First off, how does it feel to hurt us?

[Rebecca Robinson]

It feels so good.

[Nicole]

Secondly, what can you tell us about this? This was painful.

[Lexi]

Yes.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So, okay. I Can absolutely tell you some information about it because it's on the back of the book. Right. Like, it's not. This is not spoiler. This is just simply what you have to look forward to in book two. And because our lovely friends not to like, this is not like a plug. I swear to God, the people over at Cosmo, they did in fact, they released a chapter. So there is a chapter up there that sort of talks about this piece and it is that, you know, Vassa, she's had big a back. She's headed back to Hysteria. And Ozik, Ozik has plans. Ozik is sort of attempting to rule Asteria as like a shadow emperor. That is his plan. Right. He wants to rule and he wants to do so without being the person on the front lines.

[Advertiser Voice]

Right.

[Rebecca Robinson]

He does not want to be the face of a throne because you know what's happened to all the other faces of this throne so far. Right. Bye. Bye.

[Nicole]

So, yeah, Tywin, Sinister shit here.

[Lexi]

Oh, my God.

[Rebecca Robinson]

No, exactly. So. So he is, you know, he is trying to rule in arguably, like one of the most sustainable ways we've seen in history, which is to rule by proxy. But for Vassa to take the throne, she has to be married. But, like, Reed just attacked the border. He's absolutely outside of his marriage agreement at this point. He's shown aggression towards hysteria. That would be grounds for divorce, quite frankly, in Ozik's eyes. Book two follows us through the almost like, like bachelor style showdown of all the Assyrian lords to win Vassa's hand.

[Lexi]

So knowing just how many different characters that we already know from book one, they're all going to different places. They're kind of getting spread out. Can you share with us how many? I'm going to say POVs, although I know that it's all in third person. How many POVs that we will be getting in the book?

[Rebecca Robinson]

Three.

[Nicole]

All right, wait. Okay. Vasa, Reed, Amelie, Melusina, Ozik.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So I wrote. In between book one and book two, I wrote a novella and I'm not going to publish a novella. I have no interest in doing that. That being said, that was like a writing exercise for determining Ozik's character. I write a lot of stuff, like, in the background that's like my, like, you know what I mean? I think a lot of authors do this. Yeah, I wrote this novella and I absolutely loved it. It wasn't like, maybe like quite long it's been a novella, whatever. And then I decided, I was like, oh, well, wouldn't it make sense if Those. Those chapters were, like, in the book. Like, this is information that I think I'd want people to know. And that was part of the, like, two books to three book joy was that I actually got to flesh this fully out and have, like, a really well rounded, like, emotional journey and world with a lot of information that I wanted everyone to know. And so you have some of those chapters to look forward to.

[Nicole]

I love humanizing a villain. I think it is just so delicious. And I love being like, I don't agree with you, but dear God, I see where you're coming from. That's terrifying. I love that shit. Oh, my God, I'm so excited.

[Lexi]

So, obviously no spoilers here, but which is your favorite chapter and anything that you can share about why it's your favorite?

[Rebecca Robinson]

Some chapters where Vassa is extremely sneaky, and she has to be extremely sneaky, and she does so in one of my favorite, like, settings that I've ever written that is, like, essentially a social club, except everybody wears masquerade masks and costumes so that no one knows who's there. And that's where, like, a lot of this, like, backdoor Astarian politics goes down. And so I love, love a chapter that I get to go there, and that was added after this became a trilogy. And so I love those chapters. And then there is one particular chapter in which Vassa does something that is so deeply, morally gray and egregious. And I love her for it. I do. I love her for it. And it, like, made like, I was so hyped. I was so hyped as I was writing it. So that's another chapter that I really look forward to people reading.

[Nicole]

Okay. Other than Ozik. And I'll also throw in other than Vassa, who is a character in the Wicked and the Damned, that truly shines for you. And who can you not wait for us to see more of? It can be the same character or it can be two different ones.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Lord Karev. Can't wait for y' all to meet Lord Karev. And then I really. I just cannot wait for you guys to see more of Ozik as the Big Bad of book one. You hardly ever see him. And that's what I think is actually that that was very on purpose, right? Like, we had a reason. But I think that that that tells you a lot about him. But there's just so much to know and so much to learn and so much to consider, and everything that you think you know about everyone, you probably don't.

[Nicole]

We've got Vassa's journey in one word, which is regression. What about Reid's journey in one word? If it's also regression, I will throw.

[Lexi]

Myself off my horse.

[Nicole]

Respectfully. Respectfully.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Believe violence.

[Lexi]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Like, look, look, I wrote a good man. I wrote a good man, but I said it in the very beginning. He is violent. And he. And, like, I know in book one, you know, it doesn't seem like it because he's, like, so down bad, but I think that I don't know if anyone is, like, crazy like me, but, like, I don't know. I am possessive of my man, and I think the whole world is possessive of who they love. And I think he's absolutely willing to get violent if he needs to.

[Lexi]

All right, so our very last question for you here. Rebecca, again, thank you so much for spending time with us here today. So we know that you are currently writing book three, so the final book of the trilogy. And are there any updates that you can share with us how it's going behind the scenes?

[Rebecca Robinson]

It's going. I'm in the third act, and I'm having such a fun time, like, wrapping up this series. I can't believe that I'm wrapping up this series. I love these characters so much. I know that the third book. The third book will not be out until 2027. I can't. Can, like, very confidently say that, and I don't expect that it will be early 2027 either. Just with the way that the pipeline. You know what I mean? Like, there's just production and all those things. And we want a good book, not a rushed book, always. You know, your mental health is, like.

[Nicole]

Extremely important, and, like, taking your time is very important.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Yeah, that too. That too. And I. Yeah, yeah, sleep would be great. It's also that these books, like Vasa's Story, I do have to, like, I gotta tear myself apart a little bit every time that I write this and it. For it to be any good. Right. Like, because this story really is, like. It is rooted in a journey that I think everybody. Everybody wants to take, but it requires a lot of me. And so I'm like a method writer almost, you know, like, how they have, like, method actors. Right? Like, I gotta feel it to write it, and so sometimes that means I gotta feel stuff I don't like to feel. And so, yeah, it's. But it's going. And it is the third book so far. I'm so proud of it. And it's, like, just as twisty, and I'm so excited for people to get into like the deep world building that I really wanted to do in book one, that it, you know, the characters needed to shine in book one and I think they shine in book two and three two. But there's so much more of this world and I just can't wait for people to come along the ride with me.

[Nicole]

Rebecca, thank you so much for being with us today. You are just a freaking delight. I'm so, so, so honored to call you a friend for Lexi and I both and just thank you for all you do. We love your book. We love your series. We cannot wait.

[Lexi]

Yes.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Lexi]

Congratulations. We're so excited for you.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Rebecca Robinson]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Lexi]

Thank you so much for listening to this very special bonus episode, the Serpent and the Wolf, as we get excited about the sequel, the Wicked and the Damned, coming out on February 26th.

[Nicole]

In case you're new here. Hey. Hi.

[Lexi]

Hello.

[Nicole]

Welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you for listening to this episode. If you like what you heard, please check out our Deep Dive coverage. We've done the Empyrean series, the Acotar series, the Kindred's Curse saga, and we just wrapped up our Fae and Alchemy coverage as well. Next Monday, February 2nd, is what you've all been waiting for. Our Throne of Glass Fan Guide coverage officially begins with Episode one.

[Lexi]

Part one will be no spoilers for the series as we do pretty much what we did in the first part of today's episode. We'll lay the foundation for the Throne of Glass World and give a high level of the main character characters with the intention to help people new to the series feel confident and comfortable heading into it. And for those who have already read the books, it's a fun, digestible way to revisit a series near and dear to so many of us.

[Nicole]

Then, in part two of the episode, we're going to be discussing some of our most key favorite moments from the first three books of the series, Throne of Glass, Crown of Midnight and Assassin's Blade. But it will include spoilers for the entire Throne of Glass series. As we discuss our favorite foreshadowing moments from those books. We will continue this four part fan guide series with episode two which will cover Air of Fire and Queen of Shadows, Episode three, which will cover the tandem read Empire of Storms and Tower of Dawn. And of course Episode four, leaving it off with Kingdom of Ash.

[Lexi]

If you would like today's episode outline to study before you read the Wicked and the Damned, as well as get access to our podcast episodes a day early and ad free. Please join our fan club at fantasyfangirls.com fan club. The link is also in the show.

[Nicole]

Notes thank you to our FFG team member Kendra, who knows A Serpent in the Wolf book inside and out, for all of her contributions to this episode, as well as Brooke, our sodality extraordinaire who was always fantastic with our recaps. And of course a big thank you as always to our Executive Producer, AKA our sanity manager, AKA co host of Fantasy fan Fellas Hayden, and to the author herself, Rebecca Robinson, for taking time to chat with us today.

[Lexi]

We are very active on social media, so please be sure to follow us on Instagram and slash or TikTok at fantasy fangirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube, pretty please hit that subscribe button to keep following along.

[Nicole]

While you're hitting buttons, go ahead and hit that five star button and write a little love note in the review section. It is one of the most important things you can do, not just for this podcast, but for any podcasts you regularly listen to. And last but certainly not least, do not forget to share this episode with your fellow readers, whether they love Serpent and the Wolf or if you're trying to convince them to read this marvelous book.

[Lexi]

All right, we'll see you soon. Bye bye bye.

[Nicole]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. I remember first starting FFG and honestly one of the best, best decisions we have ever made is when we put some real time and attention into our website. Websites are an essential part of small business success. That's why we at Fantasy Fangirls absolutely love Squarespace.

[Lexi]

And do you know me? With my marketing background, I have pretty high standards for website tools, but Squarespace delivers in every way. One thing I love is their integrated Squarespace SEO tools. Every website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions, an auto generated site map, and more. So you show up more often our search engines and bring in more of your ideal custom customers. Yes.

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[Lexi]

Check out squarespace.com FFG to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain using code FFG hey, it's Raj and Noah and we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too.

[Nicole]

Human anxieties we have about trying to.

[Lexi]

Get our lives right, because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Nicole]

But who isn't?

[Lexi]

That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use.

[Nicole]

A little helping hit with.

[Lexi]

Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming. We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right.

[Rebecca Robinson]

So the rest of us can be.

[Lexi]

A bit wild, wiser, and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us. Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts. And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be.

[Rebecca Robinson]

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[Nicole]

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[Rebecca Robinson]

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[Rebecca Robinson]

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[Nicole]

Everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.