Fantasy Fanfellas Ep 4: Mistborn Chapters 16-19

Summary

Fantasy Fanfellas Ep 4: Mistborn Chapters 16-19

Fantasy Fangirls Presents | Released: November 26, 2025
Hosts: Hayden (Mistborn “professor”) and Stephen (first-time reader)

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Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode of Fantasy Fanfellas, Hayden and Stephen dissect chapters 16 through 19 of Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn. With Hayden serving as the Cosmere expert and Stephen experiencing the story for the first time, the duo dive into character growth, lore, theories, and world-building—peppered with wit, memorable quotes, and substantial character analysis. The central theme both hosts explore is “rebellion,” not just in the socio-political sense but as a motif in personal identity, relationships, and acts of everyday defiance under oppression.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Summary & Chapter Humor ([08:26] - [11:45])

• Stephen opens with a breezy, comedic recap of each chapter, giving all the key plot beats:
  • Vin's recovery and the mysterious "Spook"
  • The growing rebellion and the tensions between houses
  • Vin’s developing agency at the noble ball and her flirtation with Elend
  • Revelations about Kelsier's past and the trauma required to "snap" into Allomantic powers
  • Kelsier’s morally gray actions and political maneuvering

2. Big Theme: Rebellion ([12:02] - [12:58])

• Hayden introduces "rebellion" as the episode’s motif:
  • “Rebellion can take shape in many forms, particularly in the books that Elend reads at the ball...”
  • Notes how acts of autonomy are radical in the oppressive Final Empire, and how characters seek different forms of resistance.

3. Chapter-by-Chapter Deep Dive

Chapter 16

• Vin's Recovery & Character Work ([15:28] - [19:43])

  • Vin’s ongoing trauma is evident; her first reaction to pain is to fear abuse from her brother Rean.
  • Introduction of Spook and his nickname origins.
  • Kelsier apologizes to Vin—establishing a significant, humanizing moment.
    • “Getting an apology from a parental figure as a child is a really big deal.” – Hayden ([18:05])
  • Vin reckons with her own mortality after a close brush with death.
    • “We’re not invincible, are we?” – Vin ([19:14])
    • “No, Vin. Far from it.” – Kelsier

• Meeting with Sayzed & Keeper Lore ([19:56] - [25:05])

  • Sayzed explains Keeper abilities: storehouses of memory through metals—like a “steel pensive.”
  • Many insights into the Lord Ruler’s hatred of the Terris people and attempts to control them.
  • Bombshell: It's widely believed Kelsier’s wife, Mare, betrayed him.

Chapter 17

• Heist Prep and Worldbuilding ([26:03] - [31:42])

  • Updates on the rebellion’s recruitment and training; the search for weakness in the Lord Ruler.
  • Moments of character growth: Vin is no longer just the street urchin or a “damsel”—she’s now “Mistborn.”
  • Elegant coming-of-age theme as Vin transitions from feeling out-of-place in a gown to owning her new identity.

• Kelsier & Vin’s Bonding Over the Past ([32:18] - [38:48])

  • Kelsier shows Vin a drawing of a flower, symbolizing beauty lost since the Lord Ruler’s ascension.
  • Touching exchange about love and betrayal regarding Mare.
    • “But do you stop loving someone just because they betray you?... That’s what makes the betrayal hurt so much.” – Kelsier ([35:14])
    • Hosts connect Kelsier’s philosophy to finding beauty after trauma, referencing Holocaust literature.

Chapter 18

• The Ball: Banter, Nobility, and Danger ([40:01] - [53:53])
  • Vin returns to high society for another noble ball, feeling both more confident and acutely aware of her outsider status.
  • Flirtatious (and witty) exchanges with Elend:
    • “That’s a stunning dress. It’s almost as beautiful as you are, mon ami.” – Elend ([45:06])
  • Vin recognizes hierarchy even among the eligible noble bachelors—her first dance is awkward, but she gleans valuable intelligence about rising tensions.
  • Discovery: Lady Shan is a soother, and is likely manipulating both Vin and Elend.
  • Darker undertones: Vin witnesses a kitchen boy executed by a noble guard, glaring contrast to the decadence inside the ball.
    • “Don’t forget the ash, Vin told herself as the carriage rolled away. Because… if those people in there knew you were ska, they’d have you slaughtered as easily as that poor boy.” ([53:44])

Chapter 19

• Kelsier’s Spy Games & Morally Gray Actions ([55:09] - [61:41])
  • Kelsier plants the corpse of a noble to further destabilize the Great Houses—touching on the cost and ethics of rebellion.
    • “Kelsier is kind of moving into serial killer territory here…” – Hayden ([56:16])
  • The informant Hoid is introduced—meta commentary about the Cosmere and wider Sanderson universe.
  • Kelsier gathers info from Lord Venture, learning of increased suspicion around the survivor of Hathsin and the rumored “11th metal.”
  • Kelsier cautions Vin against falling for Elend for operational (and possibly paternal) reasons; discussion parallels to literary “bad boy” tropes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Keepers:
  “What I do is similar to Allomancy, but not the same. You draw power from metals. I use them to create memories.” – Sazed ([22:39])

• On Love and Betrayal:
  “I think, given the choice between loving Mare—betrayal included—and never knowing her, I’d choose love. I risked, and I lost, but the risk was still worth it.” – Kelsier ([35:14])

• Elend’s Flirt Game:
  “That’s a stunning dress. It’s almost as beautiful as you are, mon ami.” – Elend ([45:06])

• On the Final Empire’s cruelty:
  “Don’t forget the ash, Vin told herself... Because… if those people in there knew you were ska, they’d have you slaughtered as easily as that poor boy.” ([53:44])

• Cosmere Easter Egg:
  “And Hoid is a character who shows up in nearly every single Cosmere book.” – Hayden ([57:08])

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Insights, Predictions, and Theories

• Epigraphs Theory:

  • Stephen posits the mysterious journal excerpts (epigraphs) are written by the Lord Ruler himself, possibly from the book Vin recovered.
    • “I think these epigraphs are at least some of them written by the Lord Ruler himself…” – Stephen ([14:27])

• Relationship Building: The hosts note the growing chemistry between Vin and Elend, and how Sanderson’s approach will appeal to romantasy readers.

• World-Building Details:

  • Language unification, the fate of the Terris people, the Lord Ruler’s tactics for controlling history and memory.

• Ongoing Predictions:

  • Lord Renu’s true identity
  • Elend’s ultimate role (good/bad)
  • Vin’s journey from urchin to powerful Mistborn
  • Kelsier’s past and the truth about Mare

• Running Jokes:

  • Kelsier as a “serial killer”
  • Comparisons to Taylor Swift, Rory & Jess from Gilmore Girls, and RuPaul’s Drag Race kitten heels
  • “Little Snack” as a nickname for Elend

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [08:26] — Stephen’s Pithy Summary of Chapters 16–19
• [12:02] — Hayden’s Big Word: Rebellion
• [15:28] — Vin’s Recovery and Trauma
• [22:39] — Sayzed and Keeper Lore Explained
• [31:23] — Vin’s Coming of Age/Transformation
• [35:14] — Kelsier and Vin’s Emotional Heart-to-Heart on Love and Betrayal
• [42:05] — Vin at the Ball, Flirting (and Kitten Heels)
• [53:44] — Vin’s Realization: “Don’t forget the ash.”
• [57:08] — Hoid’s Introduction & Cosmere Connection

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Winner & Loser of the Week ([62:50])

• Loser: Kelsier’s Wife Mare (for the suspicion of betrayal) and Sazed (for “party-pooper” attitude about Vin & Elend)
• Winner: Vin (for character growth and new sense of agency) and Hoid (for wider Cosmere appearances—future spoiler!)

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Predictions Check-In ([65:03])

The hosts revisit earlier predictions, with Stephen reviewing his success rate and floating new theories regarding Renu, Ellend, the Lord Ruler, and more. Not all predictions have come true, but their playful accountability adds to the show’s charm.

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Mistborn continues to escalate in both action and emotional depth. The plot thickens, the politics get nastier, and the characters become increasingly complex.
• Vin is growing into her Mistborn powers and her own sense of self. Her dynamic with Kelsier deepens, and her ambiguous relationship with Elend is full of possibility and peril.
• Hayden’s expertise balances Stephen’s fresh, funny takes, making for a rich mix of analysis and fandom fun.
• The show provides a great companion for first-time readers and re-readers alike, preserving the sense of wonder and speculation that makes fantasy so satisfying.

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Listener Next Steps

• Read Chapters 20–25 before the next episode!
• Follow Fantasy Fanfellas on Instagram & TikTok for behind-the-scenes and bonus content.
• Check out the companion episode with Red Rising’s Pierce Brown on the Fanfellas feed.
• Share the podcast with your fantasy-loving friends, especially those with “scandalous books disguised as weather textbooks.”

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For deeper fandom and further chapter breakdowns, keep tuning in every Wednesday. See you in the mists!

Transcript

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[Fantasy Fangirls Host 1]

Welcome, welcome welcome to the Fantasy Fanfellas Podcast. We are so excited to introduce the first podcast under the Fantasy Fangirls Media Network.

[Fantasy Fangirls Host 2]

What you're about to hear is a brand new deep dive podcast hosted by our very own sanity manager Hayden and our close Bookstagram friend Stephen Walker. Each week they are going to dive deep into Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn.

[Fantasy Fangirls Host 1]

But here's the twist. As many of you know, Hayden is absolutely feral for Sanderson's Cosmere and has already read Mistborn, but Steven has not. So each week you'll join Hayden as he takes Stephen through his first time reading Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson.

[Fantasy Fangirls Host 2]

That means that each episode has spoilers only for the chapters being discussed that week. If you haven't read Mistborn already, now is the perfect time for a read along. It is such a fantastic story and Fantasy Fanfellas is a great way to experience it for the first time or for a reread. Every episode will include chapter breakdowns, magic explainers, and even some interesting predictions for what's next.

[Fantasy Fangirls Host 1]

The first few episodes of Fantasy Fanfellas will be posted on the Fantasy Fangirls feed and you can also find each episode on the Fantasy Fanfellas very own podcast feed, which is here in the show Notes. But there's more. There's also an episode with Pierce Brown, author of Red Rising, only available on the Fantasy fanfellows feed, so be sure.

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To follow the Fantasy fanfellows podcast feed. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Additionally, give the podcast a follow on social media at Fantasy Fanfellas on Instagram and TikTok.

[Fantasy Fangirls Host 1]

So without further ado, we hope you enjoy this episode of Fantasy Fan Fellas.

[Hayden]

Howdy, Howdy her and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls Podcast and lover of all things Sanderson.

[Stephen]

And I'm Stephen, your bookish BFF and lover of all things fantasy.

[Hayden]

And the past 30 minutes of this call have been a disaster because we have tried so many times to get this thing started and none of it has worked. My Camera has been turning off Steven's mics. Not your mic situation, your mouse situation, just whatever. But you know what? We are here today, people, and this is a day of celebration. Because when we're recording, today is the launch day of the Fantasy Fanfellas. So it is a great day still. And we are here today to dive so, so deep into chapter 16 through 19 of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn. A quick reminder. I am serving as your professor of all things Sanderson to not only the audience, but also to Steven, because he has not read Mistborn yet.

[Stephen]

So this podcast will only have spoilers for the chapters we read each episode. Which means if you're starting Mistborn but haven't finished it yet, this is the podcast for you. One last thing before we get started, though. This is a new podcast, as you probably noticed, so if you want to help get the word out, please give us a follow on Instagram and tick tock at Fantasy Fanfellows. There's gonna be a lot of content you're not going to want to miss.

[Hayden]

Okay, Stephen, it's your time. Burn your medals and let us know from your perspective what happened in chapter 16 through 19 of Mistborn.

[Stephen]

Chapter 16, Vin Damsel wakes up after her tussle with the enemy and is startled by a spooky kid. Pun intended. And then later, she goes back to renew her position as a fake niece. Pun intended again. Anyway, while she's there, Vin has a convo with our friend Pastor Sayzed. He's a keeper. And we learned that keepers use metals to store memories. So think of a steel, Pensive. And she asks him, how does that work? And he's like, I can't tell you. And I see now why you like him so much, Hayden. It's because he's vague, just like you are during this podcast when I ask you questions about the future. Anyway, then we also learn that he's a eunuch, which means it is possible for him to technically have a good time, but he can never truly have a ball. I'm sorry, chapter 17. It's meeting time again. Yay. And this one is about how they're putting new covers on all the TPS reports or whatever. Hashtag, please get that movie reference. And then they talk about some random book that seems important. And then K Cup has a conversation with Vin Damsel about how his wife seemingly betrayed him. She was probably working with the Lord Ruler, but it's all vague. And Hayden ish. Because of all this, Kelsier snapped in the pits, which doesn't mean that he went insane or performed the second half of the Thirst Trap from Legally Blonde. Snapped is an allomancy term for coming into your powers, and apparently you don't come into your powers until you've seen death and rejected it. Similar to the way someone sees a thestral chapter 18 Vin goes to the ball and lusts after a pair of high heels and sazed is like don't get involved. They look way better than they feel. And all the women said Amen. And then she sees my boy Ellend. Please don't be toxic and make me regret liking you. At the beginning of this book, the two of them banter for a little bit and it's fantastic because I like banter and sarcasm, if you can't tell. And then Vin dances with a flustered chap and she turns on the boss Queen Riz and learns a few things that I'm sure Hayden will vaguely tell me are important for later in the story. But this is the moment where we realize she is no longer just a young damsel in need of saving, but a stick of dynamite with explosive potential. So then Vin dynamite goes back to chatting with Ellen. She learns he has a fiance, maybe, and Vin later ends up chatting with said fiance who is, you guessed it, not a nice person. She's also a soother, which is ironic because her personality is not soothing at all. Then Vin and Pastor Sayzed are about to leave, but she witnesses a guard kill a boy. Well, that came out of nowhere like a foot cramp in the morning. Chapter 19 Kelsier chats with some guy who likes to pour the local tea. So Mr. T tells Kelsier that people are talking about the perceived relationship relationship of Ellen and Vin. Oh. Then Kelsier decides to go cosplay as a scar and he ventures to a person with the same name and pretends to be Mr. T Venture and he chat for a little bit about something that's hopefully important and I'm sure Hayden will fill us all in about it later. Then Kelsier goes back to Mansion Renew and has a quick convo with Vin about how beards may be making a comeback. They don't need a comeback. They're always in style anyway. Then they talk about what SCA Mr. T told Kelsier and they talk about Vin and Ellen's couple ish appearance at the ball, but Kelsier doesn't like Elland, so he tells Vin to stay away from Ellend Degenerate, which means she will probably do the opposite. And I'm here for It. Because I need to know more about this frickin dude.

[Hayden]

Stephen, my biggest takeaway from that is as soon as you said Pastor Sayzed. I can now only imagine Sayzed as a youth pastor because she's a child, making an announcement about laser tag with the youth group on Friday night.

[Stephen]

Yep. Yep.

[Hayden]

Anyways, enough rambling. Now it is time for my one big word for this stretch of chapters. My one big word for today is rebellion. In many senses of the word. We see in these chapters that not only are the Noble Houses starting to catch wind of the Ska Rebellion, but we also see that rebellion can take shape in many forms, particularly in the books that Elland reads at the ball. In the center of the Final Empire, deal making and politics, Elland has the bravery to read dissenting literature right under everyone's noses. Rebellion can look different for everyone. But in a place as oppressive as the Final Empire, any act of autonomy or choice is its own little stand against the Lord Ruler. And with that, let's don our mist cloaks and dive so, so deep into chapters 16 19. Stephen, please take it away and read the epigraph for chapter 16.

[Stephen]

It's because my voice is so soothing, right? I'm almost like a soother, I think. Is that. Is that what I am? If you. Okay, let me ask you this. If you were a Mistling, not a Mistborn, what would you be? I'd be a Soother, obviously. Did I put you too much on the spot?

[Hayden]

Well, I. I have a couple that I'm kind of in between. I would.

[Stephen]

Obviously you want to be a Mistborn, but if you couldn't.

[Hayden]

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I would Either a tin eye so I could, like, sense different things, or I would be able to burn steel so I could push on metal and fly around the city, basically.

[Stephen]

Okay. I like that. You couldn't pull, though.

[Hayden]

No, you can only do one.

[Stephen]

Just. Just basically bouncing through the sky. All right.

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

All right. Chapter 16 epigraph. Here we go. Many think that my journey started in Colinium, that great city of wonder. They forget that I was no king when my quest began. Far from it. I think it would do men well to remember that this task was not begun by emperors, priests, prophets, or generals. It didn't start in Colinium or Cordell, nor did it come from the great nations to the east or the fiery empire to the west. It began in a small, unimportant town whose name would mean nothing to you. It began with a youth, the son of a blacksmith who was unremarkable in every Way, except perhaps in his ability to get into trouble. It began with me. Oh, that's a good one.

[Hayden]

That's a remarkable.

[Stephen]

I have a theory about these freaking epigraphs we can get into at the end, if you'd like. We can get into now.

[Hayden]

No, no, no. I want to hear it now.

[Stephen]

You want to hear it now? Okay. This is my. This is my theory for the future as well. I think these epigraphs are at least some of them written by the Lord Ruler himself, and they come out of this book that we're probably going to talk about that Vin found. Right. That even mentioned the Lord Ruler. I can't remember if it's a. If it's a diary or if it's just something about him. Either way, I think it's him writing.

[Hayden]

Well. I mean, that's a really interesting take, especially because Sayzed. And we'll talk about this in later chapters, this episode says that mentions that this book that they've taken is a little bit more of like a diary of the Lord Ruler, and there's all these kind of more mundane goings on that he writes about instead of, like, secrets to the Empire. So I think that's a really good guess.

[Stephen]

And we haven't heard anything from the book itself. Although he does say that it's odd that if he was necessarily bad, it wouldn't have these vulnerable moments written about in the book.

[Hayden]

Right. If he was so. If he truly was a God, if he was so steadfast in himself, why would he have all these doubts? Exactly.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Interesting. Unless he's trying to manipulate people. But we'll get into all that at some point.

[Hayden]

We are back in Vin's pov and after two weeks straight of sleep, allowing her body to recover from the wounds given to her by the Inquisitors, then is finally awake. As she stirs, she feels immense pain throughout her body. And what's her first guess as to why she feels this pain? She wonders if Rean had beaten her again. So even now, after being with the crew for months, the scars of the abuse from her brother are still very much present. But she quickly remembers that she's no longer with Rean. Instead, she notices that Lesta Borns is waiting by her bed, and he has a sick new nickname, Spook, given to him by Kelsier, by the way. I think Spook fits him a lot better than lesterborns.

[Stephen]

I don't even. That's. Yeah, that's sounds like a disease. Lesterborns.

[Hayden]

Yeah, exactly. I got lesterborne's disease. Go check out my Gofundme. Next Dachshund comes in and I'm not going to lie, I low key wish this would have turned into the slow motion scene in Return of the King where the whole Fellowship comes in one by one to see Frodo and all the hobbits are jumping on the bed with them. But we can't always get what we want. Anyways, Dachshund lets Vin know that Kelsier made it out just fine. And he also drops an interesting tidbit to Vin. According to Kelsier, the Inquisitors didn't seem focused on killing him. In fact, they were more concerned with Vin sending two Inquisitors after her while leaving only one for Kelsier, which obviously.

[Stephen]

Tells us that they're on to her about something.

[Hayden]

Right? And if you remember, the Inquisitor asked her who her noble parent was while they were chasing her. So the Empire is definitely on her tail. And there's one more matter that is a bit hazy here. What the heli is Sayzed's deal? Is he an Allomancer? Is he just secretly the world's weightlifting champion? But Dachshund doesn't oblige Vin's questions, instead saying, eh, I think that's something he should tell you. And with that, Dachshund leaves Ven to nod off, back to sleep. But guess what? Kelsier is at her bedside when she wakes up again. After a quick check in about the status of the job, we learn that the Rebellion's army is continuing to grow and that imposter Renu has started to purchase necessary weapons and supplies. But more important, Kelsier apologizes to Vin, saying that he never should have let her go with him. And by the way, I. I don't know about you, but getting an apology from a parental figure as a child is a really big deal. Especially for someone like Vin, who has like been living with people who are just beat the crap out of her all the time.

[Stephen]

Yeah, and it shows you because we left in the last episode. We kind of left off with Kelsier realizing he did the wrong thing, but now he's owning up to it, which kind of makes him a better character in my mind now even.

[Hayden]

Oh for sure. And me personally, I don't know about you, Steven, but I'm somebody. When I feel bad about something or I've been in a fight with somebody, I cannot just let it lie. So I cannot imagine Kelsier just having to wait for weeks for her to wake up, I would have been sitting by her bed and just kind of like poking her.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Hayden]

All day, every day.

[Stephen]

Yeah. I. I can't sit on anything. I'll just have to be an anxious nervous wreck.

[Hayden]

Yeah, exactly. So, anyways, as we were saying, Kelsier apologizes to Vin, which Vin does. The classic, oh, no worries, I just got stabbed in the stomach. It's all good.

[Stephen]

That's a normal Tuesday.

[Hayden]

Yeah. This whole situation has been Vin's first real brush with mortality. And the final exchange in this scene encapsulates that perfectly quote, the palace, the Inquisitors. We're not invincible, are we? To which Kelsier says, no, Vince were far from it. And to be honest, I don't really blame then for kind of doubting that she was vincible. If that's even the right way to say it. Because you're this teenager and all of a sudden you have these incredible powers, of course you're going to feel on top of the world.

[Stephen]

Yeah. I personally never thought that they were invincible, but I guess that would make sense that she would think that.

[Hayden]

Oh, for sure. I like this moment because it's just such a realistic way of conveying what having powers like this would look like. It would be so easy to overestimate what it means for you and your mortality. If you're not careful, you could start lying to yourself about just how vulnerable you still are. But enough bummer talk. Now that Vin is on the mend, it's time for her to get back to Mansion, Renew, and resume her social responsibilities as Lady Valette. Upon arriving, Vin is actually surprisingly greeted by Renu himself rather than a footman.

[Stephen]

I have a theory about this guy Renew as well. Let's just say I don't think that there's more to this guy that meets the eyes that we've been. Because he's supposed to be the fake guy, right?

[Hayden]

Yes.

[Stephen]

He's supposed to be the man of many faces or whatever.

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And be the real Renu is supposed to be dead. I don't know that that's true, but we'll get into that later. Just. Just a little sneak peek.

[Hayden]

So you. I mean, it's even been said in the book that there's more to him than meets the eye. So you think there's more to him than meets the eye? Than meets the eye.

[Stephen]

Mm.

[Hayden]

And there's a hilarious hello, fellow kids energy from Renew as he and Vin try to put up the ruse of them being your usual noble uncle and niece. Then also notes just how uncanny Renews charact, he never breaks character. And Vin wonders how somebody could play another person so convincingly. But upon completion of the obligatory awkward small talk, Ven excuses herself to go see Sazed in the library. She comes upon Sayzed, noticing that he's reading, but something is a bit off. He's wearing glasses, which is odd because Vin has seen him reading without them before. So Vin wastes no time and asks Azed point blank, are you an owlmancer? But Sayzed plays coy and doesn't start to open up until she asks a more interesting question. What is a keeper? To which Sayzed responds, quote, now that is a far more clever question. Mistress. Keepers are storehouses. We remember things so that they can be used in the future. And Vin makes the number one mistake you can make while talking to Sayzed. Bringing up religion. But don't worry. Say that for once in his goddamn life. Doesn't launch into the sales pitch. Instead, he tells it. He tells them that he also remembers other things like languages. And he also flexes just how many he knows. 172 to be precise. So he has been absolutely wearing out. Duo.

[Stephen]

I was gonna say that. Dang it. I was like. He's gonna. He's probably got a really good streak on.

[Hayden]

You know what's funny? I had a feeling you're gonna say that, so I let you say anything.

[Stephen]

I just kept going and now you get credit for that. Great comment.

[Hayden]

He also gives us a little lore on what the commonly held language across the empire is derived from. Quote, most of them, such as Kaleni, are no longer spoken. The Lord Rulers Unity movement of the 5th century made certain of that. The language people now speak is actually a distant dialect of Terrace, the language of my homeland. I just want us to reflect on that and keep it in mind for later. But back to Sayzed's abilities. He's a bit cagey about giving much more insight, but he does say this. Quote, what I do is similar to Allomancy, but not the same. You draw power from metals. I use them to create memories. Sayzed is absolutely doing his best. Hayden impersonation here of being vague as possible.

[Stephen]

Yeah, you kind of want that in a book, in a story. You don't want to give everybody everything initially. I've mentioned that before, but I don't know. I would like him to be a little less vague. But I also like the way he says that I use them to create memories. Okay.

[Hayden]

I will say it is frustrating as a first time reader. However, when the book finishes and you have the answers that you've been looking for. It is so satisfying. I promise that it will all come.

[Stephen]

Oh, I'm sure it is. Yeah. Yeah. I would. I would much prefer that. Prefer that?

[Hayden]

Yeah. For sure.

[Stephen]

At all. Right.

[Hayden]

Now we also get some more insight on the current plight of the terrorist people. Quote. Perhaps another time, Mistress. My kind, we prefer to maintain our secrets. The Lord Ruler hunts us with a remarkable, confusing passion. We are far less threatening than Mistborn, yet he ignores allomancers and seeks to destroy us, hating the terrorist people because of us. One thing I would like to point out here is it is very obvious, based on the conversation that Ben just had with Sayzed, that the Lord Ruler is very invested in making sure people are not too aware of the past beyond his ascension when he came into power. And so keepers who keep these memories, like Sayzed, are a real threat to him. So despite terrorist men being treated better than the ska, the Lord Ruler has cut out terrorist reproduction, forbidding the population from growing. And this is where we learn that Sazed himself was made a eunuch at birth. Oh, boy. We've taken in a lot in this exchange. But Sazed has one more bomb to drop on us. Then ask Sayzed, who betrayed Kelsier three years ago, the first time he tried to break into the Lord Ruler's palace. To which Seyzet says, the facts are unclear, Mistress. Most of the crew assumes it was Mare. Oh, shit. So everybody thinks that Kelsier's wife is the one that betrayed him and sent him to the pits of Han. This is a huge revelation, and one that I think helps Vinda understand and relate to Kelsior a bit more deeply. She spent her whole life feeling betrayed by the one family member she has. And if this suspicion of Mare is true, then Kelsier will have gone through a similar betrayal. And with that, the chapter ends. And. Oh, my Lord. I think we need a breather after that info dump.

[Stephen]

Yeah, a lot of that came from the mouth of Pastor Sazed himself. The fact that he was a eunuch. I forget. Did they mention specifically why the Keepers, generally speaking, are made units?

[Hayden]

So kind of similar to what we were talking about with how they are a threat to the Lord Ruler with their memories and stuff, Right? He wants to control them in every aspect, and making these breeding programs is part of that.

[Stephen]

Okay, so he wants the. He wants keepers, but he wants them to be his keepers.

[Hayden]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Stephen]

So the fact that Kelsey's wife betrayed him, this is common knowledge, right?

[Hayden]

This is the common belief held amongst the team members of the crew.

[Stephen]

Initially, when I read that, I thought maybe he's saying that simply because that could be a way to gain the trust of Vin, because she has trust issues with her brother. But maybe that's reading too much into it.

[Hayden]

From what I'm getting from this, is that you have trust issues.

[Stephen]

No. I mean, of course.

[Hayden]

No. All right, Steven, will you please read the epigraph for chapter 17?

[Stephen]

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I'd remained there in that lazy village of my birth. I'd have become a smith like my father. Perhaps I'd have a family, sons of my own. Perhaps someone else would have come to carry this terrible burden. Someone who could bear it far better than I. Someone who deserved to be a hero. Again, these are obviously journal entries or diary entries, depending on whatever word you want to use there. But I'm kind of leaning toward the Lord Ruler. Yeah, unless it's a. Maybe they're different diaries. I don't know if they're all. I have to look back at all of them, but they all sound like they're written as. Like you said in one episode, an Airbnb. Yeah. Entry.

[Hayden]

We so loved being at this quaint cottage in Colinium. The terrorist people were so kind and generous to my husband and I. P.

[Stephen]

S. Sorry for breaking the plate on the mantel.

[Hayden]

We will be here again. Oh, we're creating a lot of characters throughout this show. We are still in Ven's pov. Ven is as bored as me at the dmv. She has spent the past month being pampered at Lord Renew's mansion, forbidden from practicing owlmancy while she heals from her wound. And after some mind numbing chitter chatter with Renew, a carriage comes in from Luthadel and on it are Kelsier, Breeze Yedden and docks him. As the crew settles in to chat with Vin, she notices that Kelsior is a bit more careful and measured than he usually would be, making sure that he's not even visible from the balcony edge, which is something kind of new for him. But anyway, it's time for an update on the job. Recruitment for the Rebellion's army is still running a bit slow, but improving. And apparently Hamm, who is responsible for training the army, is pleased with their progress. However, there's a pretty funny wisecrack from Breeze about this little tidbit. Quote. Be warned, Hammond does tend to be a bit optimistic about these kinds of things. If the army were made up of one legged mutes, he would praise their Balance and their learning and their listening skills, which I think is hilarious. And touches on your prediction that somebody is going to lose a leg.

[Stephen]

Remember that?

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Yeah. I thought you. You were like, oh, you're so silly. Maybe that's your goal, just to make me feel stupid, even though I'm the wisest here. Probably, but not really at all.

[Hayden]

And in addition to the recruitment, there's hope that they should be able to officially get Marsh into the Ministry within the month, giving them more insight into the inner workings of the Steel Inquisitors. But most importantly, we also get a bit of an update from Sazed on the book that Vin stole from the Lord Ruler's mansion, which we have referenced multiple times in this episode.

[Stephen]

Yes, unfortunately, it is his diary.

[Hayden]

We shall see. Unfortunately, though.

[Stephen]

Okay, okay. Say Zed. Go on.

[Hayden]

It's a bit more mundane than Sayzed had anticipated. And if Sayzed is calling a book mundane, you know, we've got a problem.

[Stephen]

That is true.

[Hayden]

Quote, it is a journal. Master Dachshund says. That is a weird string of words. Say Zed. A record that appears to have been penned by the Lord Ruler, or rather, the man who became the Lord Ruler. Even Ministry teachings agree that before the Ascension, he was a mortal man.

[Stephen]

I can't remember if this word was used in previous chapters, because I'm reading these, like, in real time. Yeah, but I was very drawn to it, at least in this particular chapter. Ascension. Have we heard that word prior to today or at this moment?

[Hayden]

We have, and that is just kind of the word for when the Lord Ruler came into power, gained all of his magic abilities that have made them the most powerful allomancer in the world. This book tells of his life just prior to his final battle at the well of Ascension a thousand years ago. Mostly, it is a record of his travels, a narration of the people he met, the places he visited, and the trials he faced during his quest. Steven, your prediction is looking better and better every second.

[Stephen]

Yep. Told you.

[Hayden]

But Sazed is still hopeful that this could be of use to the crew. While it doesn't exactly say how the Lord Ruler can be defeated, it could give the crew some insight into the Lord Ruler's mind, which, when you're going up against an immortal God, could be pretty useful insight. So the whole crew requests laminated copies of the book. Not actually. Office Depot does not exist in the Final Empire, but they still want copies. And the conversation moves finally to an upcoming Noble Ball. And Ven is like, please let me go. I gotta get out of this house. So after a bit of pushback from Kelsier about her injury, Ven finally has something to do. For the first time since the palace disaster, we then move to Vin, taking a look at all of her gowns that she could wear to the ball. And if you remember, when she first started this job, the fancy clothes felt so alien to her. But now that street urchin isn't quite who she is anymore. But she's also not a noblewoman. No, she was something different. I'm becoming. She didn't know what she was becoming. Certainly not a noblewoman. Noble women didn't get annoyed when they couldn't go out stalking at night. Yet she wasn't really Vin the Urchin anymore. She was Mistborn. Steven. I love this realization here. For Vin, this is the true beginning of the coming of age story. For Vin, she is coming into her own.

[Stephen]

Yeah, that's why I changed her. She's no longer the little damsel in distress that Kelsey came in and saved. And it's teaching her that kind of. She's stepping into the dynamite that she is. And I can't call her Vin Damsel anymore.

[Hayden]

I love it. Yeah. I also have a question for you, Stephen. Do you have a piece of clothing that just makes you feel invincible? Kind of like these gowns are helping Ventures feel right now?

[Stephen]

Yeah, there's a certain pair of underwear that I have that when I wear them, I feel like I can conquer the moon. I'm totally kidding. I have no, my denim jacket, I think, really, it fills me out and I feel confident in it. A little denim jacket action.

[Hayden]

I feel so powerful in a classy turtleneck.

[Stephen]

Hey, why did I know you were going to say that?

[Hayden]

I'm just a turtleneck kind of guy.

[Stephen]

I love that. I was always self conscious of turtlenecks because I already have a long neck. And I don't want to accentuate the neck that I have because, oh, look at the giraffe man over there.

[Hayden]

No, no, no. Be the giraffe, Steven.

[Stephen]

Be the giraffe. You are the giraffe.

[Hayden]

After this realization, Vin realizes that Kelsier is outstanding on one of the garden balconies alone. And she goes to visit him, and he asks her if she ever finds all the dry plants, the angry sun, and the smoky black sky odd. Which is a weird question, because to Vin, that's just the way it's always been. And with that, Kelsier gently pulls out a piece of paper. On it is a flower. But Ven doesn't really know what a flower is. It was so old and worn that it seemed close to breaking at the creases. It didn't contain any words, just an old, faded picture. It depicted a strange shape, something like a plant, though not one Vin had ever seen. It was too flimsy, it didn't have a thick stalk, and its leaves were far too delicate. At its top, it had a strange collection of leaves that were a different color from the rest.

[Stephen]

Yeah. This point in the story, I had to remember. Oh, yeah. This world is bare and it doesn't have beauty, basically, because oftentimes when you read a book, if you stop and start that kind of thing, your mind just kind of regenerates and you just pick up where you left off. But you forget the world that has been built to a certain extent.

[Hayden]

Yes.

[Stephen]

And I forgot about that, so it was remade in my mind. Okay. Yeah, we have to. When I. When I read this book, I have to picture bare lands. No flowers, no beauty. Ash everywhere.

[Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I love that, like the way that Sanderson talks about plants in this current world is a really useful world building tool. How the stalks are thicker and how the plants in general are hardier because they're not able to take in the sun's rays as easily because it's red. So it's really interesting. You see, flowers did exist on Scadrial before the ascension of the Lord Ruler. Kelsier tells Ven that his wife Mare was fascinated by pre ascension times. And once he and Mare were taken to the pits, Dachshund kept this paper in hopes that they would return. So once he escaped, Kelsier kept the picture despite his wife's betrayal. Mare's betrayal is a complicated thing to Kelsier. I absolutely love this exchange between Vin and Kel. It encapsulates just how complicated it can be to love someone. Quote. Yes, I keep the flower, Kelsier said. I'm not really sure why. But do you stop loving someone just because they betray you? I don't think so. That's what makes the betrayal hurt so much. Pain, frustration, anger. And I still loved her. I still do. How, then asked, how can you? And how can you possibly trust people? Didn't you learn from what she did to you? Kelsier shrugged. I think given the choice between loving Mare, betrayal included, and never knowing her, I'd choose love. I risked and I lost, but the risk was still worth it. It's the same with my friends. Suspicion is healthy in our profession, but only to an extent. I'd rather trust my men than worry about what will happen if they turn on me.

[Stephen]

Yeah. That was a very beautiful moment. Beautiful conversation Also shows you the maturity level of Kelsier, deep down, and the love he had for his wife. Seemingly.

[Hayden]

Absolutely. And I mean, think about it. At the end of the day, he's been at this, like, essentially, slave prison camp for an extended period of time. So in a way, it makes sense why he doesn't really sweat the little things quite so much because he's survived such terrible things.

[Stephen]

Yeah. There's a book called the Happiest man on Earth.

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And it's. I forget the author, but it's a guy who survived the Holocaust.

[Hayden]

Oh, yeah.

[Stephen]

Writes this book talking about how he doesn't sweat the small stuff, basically. And he has this horrible past, but he's being able to find such beauty in the world because of the past and changing his minds. It's a great book.

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Check it out.

[Hayden]

We should put that in the show notes, actually. This is such a profound choice for Kelsier to make in this world. One that is so often black and white, that is full of cruelty and despair. In this world, remember, Kelsier chooses to smile. He chooses to still love his wife, despite what she may have done. There's still some ambiguity about if Mare truly betrayed him, though. After all, she was sent to the pits shortly after Kell. So why would she be sent to the pits if she was working with the Lord Ruler?

[Stephen]

I was gonna say, it could be that she didn't truly betray him, or the Lord Ruler got what he wanted, and now he needs to dispose of the person that got him there. Yeah, that's another. That's what dictators do.

[Hayden]

Well. And you can ask yourself a million different questions about why she ended up at the pits. And that's why there's still this ambiguity around whether she worked. And imagine what. How torturous that must be for Kelsier, you know?

[Stephen]

Right.

[Hayden]

But at the same time, he also says that the Lord Ruler thanked her when he caught Kelsier, which implicates her pretty bad. We also learned that Mare died about a year later, and that is when Kelsier snapped. Now, what is snapping, exactly? Snapping happens when someone with latent allomantic abilities is put in real danger, Usually beaten close to death. That trauma activates your allomantic powers, and then he escaped. Yes.

[Stephen]

So this is the only way to activate your powers is to get the shit kicked out of you.

[Hayden]

That's basically the idea.

[Stephen]

That's horrible.

[Hayden]

Yeah. You have to get close to death, essentially. This Is not really a spoiler, but it does come up later in the book. So you know how only noble people are supposed to be owlmancers, right? Well, every noble child goes through a scheduled beating in their childhood to try to see if they have allomantic abilities.

[Stephen]

Whoa.

[Hayden]

And that is just a part of the culture. And then. Then Kelsier escaped and resolved that he'd bring back a world where flowers returned. We get a little bit more about Mare here, though. She wanted children, but Kelsier wasn't so keen on the idea at the time. He was determined to be the most famous ska thief of all time. Those two ideas don't really mix. But now Kelsior wishes that he had a piece of her with him. A child. A daughter, perhaps, with mayor's same dark hair and resilient stubbornness. Gee, I wonder who that sounds like.

[Stephen]

Yeah, I remember when I read this part, I realized, oh, he's been fathering her. Yes. This entire time. Which makes sense. The relationship he has with her and the protectiveness that he has for her and the. Just all of the vibes that are going on. It makes complete sense now.

[Hayden]

Well, and if you think about it, Kelser kind of adopted this father role without even really knowing anything about Vince. And that makes sense because he saw her and instantly thought of Mare.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Hayden]

And the chapter ends with a very sweet exchange between the two of them. Quote. They stood for a few more minutes, watching the mists gather. Finally, Kelsier stood up straight, stretching. Well, for what it's worth, I'm glad you decided to join us then. Then shrugged. To tell you the truth, I'd like to see one of those flowers for myself.

[Stephen]

Yeah, that's the last line of the chapter, right?

[Hayden]

Yep.

[Stephen]

Because every chapter, like I've mentioned before, had just has a great last sentence. That is a good closure for the chapter and a good setup for the next.

[Hayden]

Yeah, exactly. I don't know about you, Steven, but I feel like I say this every episode. This is where everything really starts to simmer in this book. The relationships, the actual plot, the world building. I really think it's starting to pick up.

[Stephen]

I mean, I don't think there's ever been a slow moment, but I guess, yeah, you're right.

[Hayden]

They had the whole palace thing that was, like, from a plot perspective, that's where it really picked up. But in terms of the characters, I think things are really starting to click here.

[Stephen]

Yeah, I think this is. It's a well written book in that it's not too quick. It's not too slow. It's just the right amount of uncovering as you go on. Which leads you to say every episode, this is where it picks up. It's never been slow, buddy. We started at 60.

[Hayden]

All right, Stephen, why don't you read the epigraph for chapter 18?

[Stephen]

You could say that circumstances forced me to leave my home behind. Certainly if I had stayed, I would now be dead. During those days, running without knowing why, carrying a burden I didn't understand. I assumed that I would lose myself in Colinium and seek a life of indistinction. I'm slowly coming to understand that anonymity, like so many other things, has already been lost to me forever. Hey, I bet the Lord Ruler said that, didn't he? Yeah, he did.

[Hayden]

I mean, Taylor Swift could say that as well. I mean, she doesn't have any.

[Stephen]

I don't think she was alive during this time.

[Hayden]

Well, you haven't read the whole book, Steven.

[Stephen]

Some people think that she's Fae and perhaps has been around for hundreds of years, so maybe she was in that time period too.

[Hayden]

I think you've been spending too much time on Reddit, my friend. Shh.

[Stephen]

Don't give away my secrets.

[Hayden]

All right. We are in the third chapter of this episode, and we are still in Vin's pov.

[Stephen]

This is the longest chapter I think we've had thus far.

[Hayden]

Yeah, I think you're right. I remember going through the outline, and I always kind of like, look to see how many pages there are, and I was like, oh, Jesus, here we go.

[Stephen]

This is also one of my favorites for many reasons that I'm sure we'll talk about, but it's a really good chapter.

[Hayden]

Oh, yeah, it's great. Vin is now out on the town. And by on the town, I mean to the ball in her sickening red dress. She is out here as if Mia Thermopolis was in her reputation era now.

[Stephen]

Oh, what are you in? I think this podcast is in its life of a showgirl era, personally, because we're just having fun. You know what I mean?

[Hayden]

All right, well, okay, that would also imply that we have been doing this for, like, 20 years, but at the.

[Stephen]

Same behind the scenes, you have probably.

[Hayden]

That's true. It's all been leading to this.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Hayden]

Now, this ball is not a keep venture. It's at Keep Alarial, another prominent house in Luthadel. But as she goes inside, her confidence is a bit shaken. Then has been out of the game since her injury. And not only that, but all the ladies are wearing Heels. And she's not even wearing kitten heels. She's wearing flats.

[Stephen]

What are kitten hills?

[Hayden]

Kitten heels are like, a real thing, or is it like it? No, it's a real thing. I watch too much RuPaul. It's like an itty bitty heel where it's, like, not even an inch, basically.

[Stephen]

Okay.

[Hayden]

This is so relatable, though. When you're in an uncomfortable situation like this, it is so easy to latch onto the most unimportant things, you know? But Vin has another thing on her mind, too. Is that tall drink of water Ellend going to be at the ball tonight. The goal is simple. Get invited to dance by several young noblemen throughout the night, which will give her an end to socialize in their groups later on in the evening. That will let her eavesdrop on all the noble chitter chatter.

[Stephen]

I tell you what, Vin, I feel for you, because that tall drink of water has been on my mind, too. This is my favorite character. I want to know more about this guy. I need to know more. And this chapter kind of uncovers a little bit more, but not enough. And it's exciting.

[Hayden]

Yeah. No. And, you know, I. I remember as we were planning this podcast, I kept thinking to myself, you know, we have a lot of overlap with the fantasy fangirls audience who loves Romanasy. Like, you know, there's not a ton of romance in this book, and Ellen is not your traditional mmc, but the more I read this, I think the Romanasy girlies are gonna love this. So Vin takes a seat at her table, ready to hunker down, and all of a sudden, there's a big old thump on her table as a pile of books is dropped there. Our little snack. Ellen did come after all.

[Stephen]

Snack? Is that his nickname now? That's got to be because I was trying to figure out a nickname for Ellen. Little Snack is nice.

[Hayden]

Little Snack?

[Stephen]

Yeah, because he's not your traditional. He's 21, though. It's fine.

[Hayden]

Yeah, he's not your traditional love interest in that. He's, like, all buff and stuff. He's, like, kind of lanky and bookish.

[Stephen]

Hey, he's like the Edwin Cullen. The young, even though he's not a thousand years old. He's like the Edward Cullen look. Right?

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

And he carries books. What more do you want in a book? Boyfriend? Sarcasm and books.

[Hayden]

Anyways, apparently, Little Smack Ellen brought his own library with him. The two pick up their testy bickering, just like last time. Stephen, what kind of flirter are you when you were a young warthog. What were your tactics for picking up the ladies?

[Stephen]

I didn't. Buddy. I was not popular. I was terrible at it. I had no tactics. Here's my tactic. A woman run. That was it. I had no game. I had no Riz. I'm more charming now, but I'm off the market, so it doesn't matter anymore.

[Hayden]

I was too nice. I was the too nice guy.

[Stephen]

Yeah, I know what you feel with the too nice. I was told that many a time. Yeah, which was odd. Like, what do you want me to do? Be rude for no reason? But I. I get what they're saying.

[Hayden]

Yeah. Anyways, after the standard verbal jabs, Ellen throws a flirtatious napalm at Vin with a disarming compliment quote. That's a stunning dress. It's almost as beautiful as you are, mon ami.

[Stephen]

Hey, that was good. Yeah, I've really felt that delivery from you. It was. I felt like Vin. And now I get it. You know what I mean?

[Hayden]

Yeah, with your little kitten heels. Vin froze, jaw hanging open slightly. Ellen smiled mischievously, then turned back to his book, eyes sparkling as if to indicate that he'd made the comment simply because he knew the reaction he'd get. He is such a little trickster.

[Stephen]

You said it like a grandma. He's such a little trickster.

[Hayden]

Don't you hang out that young man? I gotta be honest. The first time I read this book, I found Ellen to be a little boring. But I'm honestly loving him this time around.

[Stephen]

I mean, the first time he didn't read the book properly.

[Hayden]

Yeah, I guess so. As Ellen leaves to go fetch a drink, Sayzed steps in. He does not think that Vin hanging around Ellen is a good idea. His theory is that he's just using her to annoy his family.

[Stephen]

I have a theory on why you didn't like him. The first go around was this. Prior to you reading any sort of.

[Hayden]

Romanticy, I had like done a little bit of acotar, but that was about it.

[Stephen]

It. Because I think once you dive into romantasy, you begin to appreciate relationship building more than previously. At least I do now, so I can recognize relationship building and witty conversations now that I've read a bunch of romantic.

[Hayden]

Okay, yeah, I like that. And Vin kind of believes Sayzed. After all, she doesn't know how to do any of this. She's a teenage girl. I love how Sanderson writes Vin's insecurities. She has come so far from where she was at the start, but she is still struggling to believe that she belongs or that someone would want to spend time with her just for being her. As Ven and Ellen pick their conversation back up, Ven makes an ill advised comment about Scaa and Luthadel. The Ska are treated terribly, but I guess that's true everywhere. But interestingly, Ellend perks up at this comment. He starts asking Ven questions about her experiences with Scott, if she interacted with them much at her family plantation. But this bizarre exchange is interrupted by a young nobleman asking for Vin to dance. And Vin is nervous. But turns out this dude is a scrub. He's over here stumbling as they try to dance. And it hits Vin. All of the most experienced men wouldn't deign to dance with a newbie like her. But some of the new men of lesser houses would. There's a hierarchy to all of this.

[Stephen]

It's similar to what my parents said about snakes. They're more scared of you than you are scared of them. You know what I mean? I don't think that's true, but that reminded me of this moment because Vin has been nervous to dance with men this entire time. But these dudes are just as nervous. But like you said, it's the lower class ones.

[Hayden]

But nevertheless then does get some useful info. During this awkward dance, the man she's dancing with has noticed that there has been some rising tension among many of the houses. And with that has come lower attendance rates at balls. Okay, interesting. That means that Kelsier's plan to rile up the nobles is working. Vin makes her way back to Ellend and they pick up their conversation. She asks him about one lady, Shan, a woman that was mentioned by the guy Ven was dancing with. To which Elend responds, well, I might be engaged to her. Record scratch. Might be. Well, turns out that there supposedly was some kind of engagement, but according to Ellen, quote, we haven't really done anything about the situation for a year or so. Everyone's likely forgotten the matter by now. Okay, pause here because I am happily married, but unfortunately I believe I might still be dating my fifth grade girlfriend.

[Stephen]

You?

[Hayden]

Yeah, because much like Ellen, I had a girlfriend in fifth grade, but we never broke up. We just stopped talking to each other.

[Stephen]

You know, this is something you could air out privately with your wife rather than to the general public. But sure. 1.

[Hayden]

So anyways, what the. But thank God, because this conversation is over. Other men start making their way to invite Ben to dance. And she happily obliges after dancing the night away. Dance the night away. Then makes it back to her table And Ellend is actually gone. Not this time. However, he's left his books. So then decides to snoop just a little. Go ahead.

[Stephen]

No, I keep going. And he leaves a book out specifically. I think it's a strategic part on his end.

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

I think he's manipulating because he's sarcastic and all this stuff. He's trying to get something out of this. Or maybe he's not. Okay, I may side with Kelsey on he has ulterior motives, this Ellen guy, but I also like him as a character and I want to know more. But go one.

[Hayden]

Okay. She picks out one of the books and starts reading. And interestingly enough, it's a book that discusses the Lord Ruler's political structure. But before she continues to read on, then is summoned by Lady Shan to her table. And Lady Shan is, to put it simply, the Regina George of Luthadel. First of all, she tells Vin to call her your ladyship. She sucks. But she wastes no time in putting Vin in her place, reminding her that Ellen is simply using Vin. However, she also says that perhaps she'd like to use her too. Vin could definitely glean some useful information from her. She is towards the top of the noble food chain, after all. But first, Shan wants Ven to recount her and Ellen's conversations from tonight. But Ven notices something. She's being soothed. Shan is a soother, goddammit. And not only that, but she's also noticing that Shan's terrace servant was making his way towards Ellen's books. She doesn't know what he could want with Ellen's books, but she doesn't like it in the least. So then dips and makes her way to her table, making the terrors men peace out. Now, back at the table, she notices another open book, one titled Weather patterns of the Northern Dominance. But inside, the book is rather scandalous. In fact, it is critical of the Lord Ruler talking about how despite the prosperity of the final empire, there is a rather shocking lack of enlightenment and technological development. Okay, this is tea. If anyone knew that Elend was reading books critical of the Lord Ruler, that would be bad. But before we can process this new development, Elend arrives back at the table. The usual flirtatious back and forth occurs before he bids Vin good night and leaves with two other young men. When Sazed comes back, he tells Vin that those two men are Lord Yastis, the Call, and a member of the Hasting House. Which is interesting because those two houses are political rivals of House Venture. So what the hell are these three doing hanging out Together, but yeah.

[Stephen]

Okay, so what is the house of the fiance of Ellen?

[Hayden]

Yeah, she's house of Laureo, which is hosting the ball tonight. Right.

[Stephen]

Okay, so they're different houses. Yes. I wonder if these houses are kind of feuding now due to Kelsier's. Whatever he's doing in the background.

[Hayden]

Exactly. That's a really good point, because as Kelsier is drumming up all this drama among the noble houses, you might start to see people who are traditionally rivals starting to collaborate with each other.

[Stephen]

Yeah, all of his angry tweets are bringing people together and dividing people in different ways.

[Hayden]

Exactly. But alas, it's time to leave the ball. So they start to leave. However, there's a disturbance outside before they're able to get to their carriage. Turns out a kitchen boy had been begging from one of the noblemen as he arrived in his carriage. So a guard drags the Scott out of eyesight from most people. However, Vin is able to see by burning tin, and what she sees horrifies her. The guard unceremoniously slits the boy's throat.

[Stephen]

This was one of those moments in this book that I was like, dang, okay, now we're getting serious, because now you're killing children, and that's. That's a big thing here.

[Hayden]

To be honest with you, Steven, when I read this book for the first time, I think one of the lines that Vin thinks to herself in this next paragraph is probably the single most impactful line in the entire book. This leads to a sobering realization for Vin. She allowed herself to be led into the carriage, her mind still distressed. It seemed such an impossible contrast to her. The pleasant nobility dancing inside a room sparkling with light and dresses. Death in the courtyard. Didn't they care? Didn't they know this is the final empire? Then she told herself as the carriage rolled away, don't forget the ash, because you see a little silk. If those people in there knew you were sca, they'd have you slaughtered as easily as they did that poor boy.

[Stephen]

Yeah, that's a very impacting line there.

[Hayden]

It's incredible.

[Stephen]

It's all smoke and mirrors, basically.

[Hayden]

Yep, exactly.

[Stephen]

It has a lot of political implications in the book, and I like reading stuff like that. But this is very interesting for her to come to this realization and remember. Oh, just because it was nice in there, don't get too fond of this because it's rotten to the core.

[Hayden]

I mean, Vin is swimming with sharks at this point. And when you're, you know, sitting in the shark tank, so to speak, you think you're safe, but at any moment, things could change.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Hayden]

Stephen, will you please read the epigraph for the final chapter of today's episode?

[Stephen]

Quan and I met by happenstance. Though I suppose he would use the word providence. I have met many other terrorist philosophers since that day. They are every one men of great wisdom and ponderous sagaciousness. Men with an almost palpable importance. Not so Quan. In a way, he is as unlikely as a prophet as I am a hero. He never had an air of ceremonious wisdom, nor was he a religious scholar. When we first met, he was studying one of the ridiculous interests in the great Kalini Library. I believe he was trying to determine whether or not trees could think that he should be the one who finally discovered the great hero of terrorist prophecy is a matter that would cause me to laugh had events turned out a little differently. I bet the Lord Ruler said that that should be on his shirt.

[Hayden]

Alright everybody, we are finally back in Kelsier's pov. Kelsier is out and about, doing his usual tomfoolery, messing with the noble houses while Vin is at the ball. He's coming up on House to keel and notices that there are a ton of owlmancers posted on guard duty. Which is exactly what he was hoping for. More allomancers on duty means that these great houses are nervous about all the assumed political attacks and assassination going on. But no worries. Kell doesn't plan on going any farther than the front yard. He goes to a bush and pulls out a huge sack, then plops its contents on the ground.

[Stephen]

You worded that like you meant it to be a double entendre. Pulls out his huge sack and pops it on the ground. Calm down, reader.

[Hayden]

I said a huge sack, not his.

[Stephen]

My bad, my bad. I read into it too much. I'm the problem.

[Hayden]

And no, but it's not fertilizer for the grass. It's a dead nobleman. Kelsier is sending a message, Godfather style. You see, this particular nobleman was an ally of House Tequil. And a murder like this would send a message that Tequil's enemies were on the move.

[Stephen]

Okay, so once again we see a morally gray thing here. He just kills some random person. Unless this person was doing something horrifically wrong during the killing.

[Hayden]

But I was just about to touch on that because. Because I know that the Nobles suck. I mean, Kelsier made a note about. He found this particular one on the. From a Scob blood fight. So he's not really a good guy at all but Kelsier is kind of moving into serial killer territory here, if you think about it. I don't know. I just remember when I was reading this for the first time, I loved Kelsier so much, but I was like, I'm not comfortable with how he goes about this stuff. But anyways, Kelsier has other errands, quote, unquote, to run. He makes his way to Escosalem to meet with a certain informant named Hoid. And there is much more to Hoid than meets the eye.

[Stephen]

Hoid sounds like a sound you make when you're lifting something heavy.

[Hayden]

Yeah, you're totally right. As I've said before, Mistborn is one series in the larger Brandon Sanderson universe called the Cosmere. And Hoid is a character who shows up in nearly every single Cosmere book.

[Stephen]

Really?

[Hayden]

Yes.

[Stephen]

So this is a spoiler.

[Hayden]

No, it's not really a spoiler. It's just letting you know happens. Yeah.

[Stephen]

Hoyt is in every book.

[Hayden]

He's in almost every book.

[Stephen]

So he's a jumper, a time jumper. Or. Or did you just get. You just give something because you said there's another series after. This is another trilogy that's in the future, and he's in that too.

[Hayden]

I. I'm. I'm pleading the fifth right now.

[Stephen]

You can leave this in if you'd like, or you can you take it out. I don't know, but that sounds like a spoiler. But I may be chewing on that that the rest of my life.

[Hayden]

Now, as I was about to say in the script here, how is that possible? Okay, well, that is not what this podcast is for, and I don't have 12 hours to explain it all, so just forget I said anything.

[Stephen]

Pastor says it. Everybody.

[Hayden]

So laser tag on Friday night, everybody. So Kelser walks up to the tobacco smoking man, which, by the way, is kind of weird for a SCA informant because tobacco is very expensive in the final Empire. Just another little clue that there's something going on here with Hoid. And Kelsier, dressed as a noble, starts asking about House Renew just to get an idea of what the word on the street is about their little operation.

[Stephen]

Does Kill have a prior relationship with this Hoid gentleman, or is he coming to him? No, this is dressed up as a royal or whatever. So he's cosplaying himself.

[Hayden]

Yeah, no, this is okay. Hoid knows of the weapons purchasing that's going on. And he also mentions how Vin and Elend have been spending time together at Balls. He also mentions that Renew and Venture are engaged in some kind of deal conversation, then moves to House Ellariel. And how. They're worried about a House war, so they've secretly deployed Shan the Soother to try to work on gaining more allies at Balls. Okay, so the exchange is about to end. But first, Kelsier starts planting some of his own information to Hoy, as false as it may be, knowing that the gossip will reach the Noble Houses very quickly. I know I just called Kelsier a serial killer, but damn, is he good. No time for dilly dallying, though. Kelsier has to go into the Old Navy changing room. And by changing room, I mean random alleyway to don a new disguise, this time as a Ska beggar himself.

[Stephen]

He's the Master of Disguise.

[Hayden]

Yeah. Jim Carrey.

[Stephen]

Yeah. No, Jim Carrey's not the Master of Disguise. Who is? I forget his name. It's not Jim Carrey. Okay, you can look it up later.

[Hayden]

And who does he meet up with? Well, none other than Lord Strath Venture. And Kelsier starts playing him like a fiddle, starting to tell him that some of his allies have been working against him in dealings in favor of other Houses. But Venture has an even more interesting question he wants answered. He wants Kelsier to tell him about the survivor of hathsa, the rumored 11th medal, and who is drumming up talk of a Ska rebellion.

[Stephen]

And he's the survivor of Han.

[Hayden]

Exactly.

[Stephen]

So he's talking about himself.

[Hayden]

Yes. Now this is interesting. Venture is essentially the second most powerful man in the Final Empire behind only the Lord Ruler. And he seems a bit pressed about some of the goings on of the Underground. Kelsier assures him that all this stuff is mere rumor, but Venture asks him to press further and. And find information. And with that, Venture leaves. When Kel makes it back to Mansion Renew, he gets caught up on Ven's night at the ball. And guess what? Elend dominates most of the conversation, then also asks Kelsier to come back to her room so she can share a little bit more info away from Sazed, who we all know is not a fan of Elland. Ven tells Kelsier about the secret book that Elland was reading, and Kelsier recognizes it instantly. Their chat turns towards whether literature like that is banned in the Final Empire. Which leads to a very interesting and relevant quote from Kelsier. Banning books is tricky business, Vin. The more stink the Ministry makes about a text, the more attention it will draw, and the more people will be tempted to read it. False dawn is A stuffy volume. And by not forbidding it, the Ministry doomed it to obscurity.

[Stephen]

Yeah, so this has practical implications in real life, too. Seemingly, whenever you try to ban stuff, it just makes it more popular, doesn't it?

[Hayden]

I mean, think about whenever you go into a Barnes and Noble, there's always a banned book section.

[Stephen]

Yeah, and that's. I'm drawn to that. Like, what did they ban today?

[Hayden]

Yeah, and then you're like, oh, they banned Jane Eyre.

[Stephen]

It's like, come on, man, I gotta buy it now. Maybe it's worth more.

[Hayden]

Yeah, but there are some books that are forbidden. And if Ellen were caught with him, the inquisitors could have him executed. Which sounds like a wonderful idea to Kelsier. And this thought. Thought freaks Ben way the out. Kelsier sees her pale at the idea and realizes that she's really falling for him. So Kelsier does what any father figure would do and tells her to stay away from Ellend because it puts the whole job and crew in jeopardy. Wait, I just realized that this is very much a Rory and Jess situation from Gilmore Girls. Steven, have you watched Gilmore Girls?

[Stephen]

No.

[Hayden]

Okay, well, to the people who are listening who have, have. This is just like Rory and Jess. Everyone doesn't think she should be with him. He loves to read, and he doesn't get along with his family.

[Stephen]

Oh, so look at you, tying everything together.

[Hayden]

Thank you for humoring me, Steve. All right, Stephen, that is it. It is now time for our winner and loser of the week. Would you like to go first?

[Stephen]

Sure. Let's start with the loser. It's totally say Zed. Just kidding. I just needed to say that so you could real quickly sweat inside your body. I would say the loser is Kelsier's wife. At least for now.

[Hayden]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen]

Because we learned that maybe she betrayed him, obviously, but we don't know for sure. Everybody else is. Is not really a new problem. That is a new thing from this particular set of chapters that I think is the loser.

[Fantasy Fangirls Host 1]

So we'll see.

[Hayden]

I mean, based on the information we have right now, I think that's a fair loser for sure.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say the winner is Vin, because, like I said, she is realizing that she has power. She has that moment when she's dancing with a kid. And I really feel like this is a pivotal moment for her because she realizes that she's not the lowest person on the hierarchy or whatever, because this person is just as scared, and it gives her some confidence. And I feel like this is another turning Point for her as a character and we're seeing more of that uncover for her. I say she's the winner and I'll give a close second to Ellen just because I'm invested in his character and him reading a book about Skull and being so interested in them is out of character, seemingly for somebody who is not a good guy.

[Hayden]

Yeah, he might be different.

[Stephen]

Yeah, he may be the diff, but daddy, he's different. He's not like other men.

[Hayden]

Okay, I am going to go. My loser this week is my baby boy. Say Zed.

[Stephen]

Oh, wow. I was kidding and I. You actually mean it.

[Hayden]

Listen, I hate to say it, but he is being a major party pooper when it comes to Vin and Ellen. So much so that Vin couldn't even felt like she couldn't even talk about him in front of Sezet.

[Stephen]

That's a good point. If you lose trust that way, that's not good for the relationship.

[Hayden]

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm sure he will be back in the winners column next week. But for now, Sezet, you know, I'm.

[Stephen]

Gonna move the winner of these chapters to you. Hayden, taking your. This is a very vulnerable moment for you, sacrificing your boy. You're right at the pursuit of truth, you know.

[Hayden]

Thank you. My winner this week is Hoid. Hoid does not do much in this book, but God, seeing him here just reminds me of all the cool appearances throughout the cosmere.

[Stephen]

So you're foreshadowing Hoid.

[Hayden]

That's right.

[Stephen]

Okay. You're drawing from the future. He's not the winner of this. He's the winner of the future.

[Hayden]

Okay, Stephen, now is my favorite part of the episode where you predict what happens next. But we're also going to do a quick halfway point point check in on your previous predictions and seeing if any of them have come to fruition. So first, Stephen, please look into your foggy, foggy crystal ball and let us know what you think is going to happen next.

[Stephen]

So my first prediction is Lord Renew. Is the real Lord Renew. They think it's the fake guy playing the real guy, but I think it's the real guy playing the fake guy playing the real guy. Does that make sense?

[Hayden]

Renewception.

[Stephen]

Renewception. So. So earlier in the book, you find out that apparently this guy killed Lord Renu and took over his appearance. But what if that didn't necessarily happen? Let's say the real Renu tortured the other Renu to the point where he gave him up all the details to where he can fake as that Guy, I don't know if it's not that, it's something else.

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

This goes back to the trust issue, I think.

[Hayden]

Okay. I'm going to tell you right now. It is something else.

[Stephen]

Okay.

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

Are you saying that, like, it's blatantly obvious to this point?

[Hayden]

It's not blatantly obvious to this point, but. Oh, my God, that would be crazy.

[Stephen]

You said it's crazy. I'm just trying to think outside the bun. I'm trying to talk about this moment right now.

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

Okay. So next is. I think, obviously this is gonna happen. Ellen is gonna dance with Vin, and they're gonna share this moment. It may be a secret. Actually, here's what it is. Ellen's gonna dance with Vin, which is gonna propel them. Going to sneak away to have a conversation. I don't think anything else is gonna happen. I think it's simply a conversation because she wants to know about more. And I think they're gonna have their magic carpet ride moment, like in. What is that movie called? Aladdin? Where they're, you know, flying above this. It's not really a magic carpet, but they're gonna have their happy moment.

[Hayden]

They could be steel pushing.

[Stephen]

They could be. Oh, my gosh.

[Hayden]

Magic.

[Stephen]

That's what's gonna happen. She's gonna spill the beans on something a little too quickly to this dude, Ellen, and he will either prove to me that he's a good guy or prove to me that he's a bad guy. Okay, we'll see. So I'll add that, too. He's gonna spill the beans, or she's gonna spill the beans a little bit too early on some powers that she has and some info that she has that telling him. And then also, I said this earlier, but the epigraphs are entries from the lord ruler, and I think it's a part of the book that Vin found his. Because all of this is tying together now as we went through this again. If she found the book in his office, it's seemingly a journal. It just sounds about right.

[Hayden]

Yeah. Okay, so a little update for the audience here. We kind of realized by me giving a percentage of how right Stephen was, I was kind of inadvertently spoiling the book look, so I'm no longer going to give any percentages, But I love your predictions this week, Stephen, and let's take a look back at all the predictions you've made thus far. All right, let's see. I will take us through here. Number one, the smiling sca was Kelsier.

[Stephen]

Apparently, that was Blatantly obvious in the first episode.

[Hayden]

100. Right, Stephen? So you're one for one here.

[Stephen]

I'm one for one.

[Hayden]

Dachshund dies, quote at some point.

[Stephen]

We wouldn't know yet.

[Hayden]

Yeah. Has not happened. But that's okay. You're not out of it. Then flies for the first time. She's scared at first, but then has a hairy on the back of a hippogriff moment. Absolutely happened.

[Stephen]

I got that one.

[Hayden]

Number four. Some dude is going to try to hit on Vin, and Kelsier is going to go father mode and kill him. Okay, it didn't happen, but Kelsier wants to kill Ellen.

[Stephen]

Okay, yeah, it didn't happen, but, yeah, that. That kind of fits.

[Hayden]

Okay, I'll give you half a point on that one.

[Stephen]

Okay.

[Hayden]

Kelsier's 11th medal is fake. Hasn't proven true to this point. Ham is bad, or at least does something bad.

[Stephen]

I've moved away from that because I think that was just me. I just didn't like his name or maybe. I don't know. I'm not worried about that anymore. So I'll take a loss on that one.

[Hayden]

All right. Kelsier visits the lord ruler and tries to bargain. I feel like he has a better relationship than he is presenting. Okay, I want to give you a quarter point here, because they did go to his palace.

[Stephen]

They didn't talk to him, though.

[Hayden]

No, that's why it's a quarter point.

[Stephen]

Now you're just being generous. I also don't think that's gonna happen anymore as we get further. I feel like he hates the Lord. Really. And they don't have a good relationship.

[Hayden]

Right, Right. They go to find the 11th metal, but it's missing because it was never there. Yeah. Haven't seen anything like that yet. Number nine, Book boyfriend, AKA Little snack. Ellen will play a key role. Then we'll see him without Kelsier knowing.

[Stephen]

Yep. And I said that. I reiterated that earlier, I guess. Okay, today's predictions. Kelsey, they'll dance for the first time.

[Hayden]

This is a good one. Kelsier is the lord ruler's son.

[Stephen]

That could be one of those plot twists.

[Hayden]

But not proven to this point.

[Stephen]

Not proven to this point. Yeah.

[Hayden]

Then we'll have a lifelong side effect from the stab. Oh, Frodo style is what you're kind of thinking.

[Stephen]

Yeah, that's obviously not happening because we haven't read anything previously. Right?

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And she's already been stabbed. And I don't see any long lasting effects thus far.

[Hayden]

Right now, my personal favorite is someone is going to lose a leg.

[Stephen]

Hey. Or you know what? Maybe I was channeling. Hey, go break a leg on the dance floor. That's what it was. Somebody's gonna break a leg. Oh, I'm kidding. No, maybe they still will.

[Hayden]

Okay.

[Stephen]

There's still time.

[Hayden]

There's, there's like. I don't know, there's like half of the book left. You never know.

[Stephen]

We are literally halfway through the book.

[Hayden]

Yeah. Okay everybody, that is it for episode four of our deep dive of Mistborn.

[Stephen]

And if you like this, go ahead and check out our interview with Pierce Brown right now on our feed. And episode five will be coming out Wednesday, November 19th. Also, please be sure to give us a five star rating if you love this podcast and review on your podcast platform and give us a follow on Instagram and tick tock at Fantasy fanfellas.

[Hayden]

And lastly, lastly, if you loved this episode and you have friends who like to read scandalous books disguised as weather textbooks, then please share this episode with them. Okay, see you next episode for chapters 20 through 25.

[Stephen]

Byee.

[Hayden]

Vin froze. Jaws hanging open slightly. Ella. No, she has one jaw.

[Stephen]

Vin with her chins opening this podcast.

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