H.M. Wolfe Author of Daggermouth Interview

Summary

FANTASY FANGIRLS – H.M. Wolfe, Author of Daggermouth (Interview) Episode Date: July 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this special episode, sisters and Fantasy Fangirls hosts Nicole and Lexi interview H.M. Wolfe, acclaimed author of Daggermouth, on the eve of its major re-release. The conversation covers Wolfe’s writing process, worldbuilding, inspirations, and the gritty character dynamics of her hit dystopian romance. The episode is split into spoiler-free (Part 1) and spoiler-central (Part 2) segments, with lively banter, deep dives, and behind-the-scenes anecdotes. Listeners get hints about the upcoming sequel, Python, and insight into the dark, suffocating universe Wolfe has created.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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Getting to Know H.M. Wolfe (Spoiler-Free)

[06:12 – 09:19]

• Current Reads & Writing Process

  • Wolfe is currently focused on editing her next book, Python.
  • She uses a Kindle Scribe for editing, which lets her review and annotate manuscripts like a reader, improving her process.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 07:36):
    “The Kindle Scribe is the best thing that has ever happened to my editing process.”

• Dystopian Influences

  • Favorite dystopia: V for Vendetta (comic); major inspiration for her own writing.
  • The Hunger Games "elongated" her love for dystopia and brings nostalgia.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 09:39):
    “Forever in my heart is V for Vendetta... that's my passion comic.”

• Anticipation for Sunrise on the Reaping

  • Wolfe admits she's experiencing the new Hunger Games film for “vibes” over canon, excited and slightly nervous.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 11:01):
    “I'm having a great time because, the first Hunger Games I read all the books ... I want the nostalgia, I'm going in this for vibes.”

• Writing Style: Pantser or Plotter?

  • Firmly a “pantser,” despite attempts to plot. Has plotting boards, but rarely follows them.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 11:58):
    “I try so hard, I don’t follow a single goddamn one.”

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Daggermouth World & Characters (Spoiler-Free)

[12:38 – 15:14]

• Favorite Character to Grab Coffee With

  • Callum—because he's charming, generous, and trustworthy (and easy on the eyes).
  • The hosts swoon and joke about his appeal.

• Favorite POV to Write

  • Fun: Callum, for comic relief and natural humor.
  • Complexity: Grayson, for his multifaceted emotional state, challenged Wolfe as a writer.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 13:31):
    “Fun wise, it was Callie, because he was the comedic relief... Complexity wise was Grayson... so multifaceted for me.”

• Writing Routine & Rituals

  • Wolfe’s essentials: water bottle, lots of coffee, Alani (caffeinated drink), and a routine that cues her brain for writing.
  • Prefers eBooks for reading, but collects hardcovers as “shelf trophies.” Listens to audiobooks when busy.

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Deep Dive: Building Daggermouth’s Setting

[29:25 – 33:11]

• Inspiration for Rings, Masks, and World Structure

  • Wolfe wanted a near-future, non-magical dystopia reflecting modern class systems, heightened for narrative effect.
  • Inspiration for the "rings": The Hunger Games' stratified districts. Outward decay from the opulent center symbolizes societal rot.
  • The "masks" are metaphors for the hidden 1%—corporate, privileged powers that remain out of sight.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 29:35):
    “The world itself really came from a lot of our class systems ... Outward decay, because things. If things are rotten, it starts in the middle and goes outward.”

• Worldbuilding & Narrative Withholding

  • Deliberate lack of early world info creates claustrophobia and distrust—mirroring characters' sense of isolation.
  • Promise of wider world and answers in Python; Daggermouth meant to “suffocate.”
  • Quote (Wolfe, 33:31):
    “I wanted Dagger Mouth to feel so suffocating. I wanted you to not know anything. Making it so that you don’t know anything makes it so you don’t trust. Trust anybody.”

• Surveillance & Technology

  • Minimal direct research; relied on existing knowledge and the real, unsettling reach of current surveillance.
  • Most tech in Daggermouth has real-world (military) parallels, adding realism and fear factor.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 35:59):
    “Does this exist? Does it not exist? Because if it didn’t exist, I didn’t want to make it up... I wanted it to feel real and not have to teach the reader something.”

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Character Connections & Themes

[26:31 – 29:25]

• Which Character Is Wolfe Most Like?

  • Shade—her stubbornness, use of alcohol as coping, grief, and dual nurturing/flawed nature directly reflect Wolfe’s own experiences.
  • Addresses class, addiction, and resilience authentically.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 26:36):
    “I am probably the most like Shade, honestly. She is a walking red flag. Like, she is like, I love her to death, but that girl needs therapy.”

• Intended Audience & Character Age

  • Made a conscious choice for Shade and Grayson to be in their 30s; wanted mature perspectives and decisions.
  • Hosts (also in their 30s) appreciate this realism.

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Planning, Spin-Offs, and the Future of the Series

[39:15 – 41:24]

• Expanding the Universe
  • While Daggermouth and Python will complete the “heart duology,” Wolfe hints at future stories in other city-states.
  • Long-term vision includes a book bringing all main characters and city-states together.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 40:08):
    “At some point...I think it would be so cool to be able to write a book that includes all three city states...the ultimate ending to the universe.”

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Spoiler Section: Major Twists and Series Future

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Favorite Scenes & Thematic Arcs

[42:04 – 45:13]

• Most Fulfilling Scenes to Write

  • Shade in prison leading rebellion; Lira’s defiant speech to women in the “elite” world.
  • Emotional, powerful women’s moments are the “soul” of the book.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 42:04):
    “As much as we love the men in this book, the women are what carry it...they are the true, like, power and soul.”

• How Trauma Shapes Rebellion

  • The rebellion’s origins and Shade’s burden of responsibility are paramount. The impact of her actions—realizing she’s a catalyst—propels both her guilt and growth.
  • Wolfe intentionally avoids giving readers a prescribed “anthem” so each can imagine the emotional soundtrack.

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Political Systems & Morality

[47:29 – 51:15]

• Crafting Corrupt Hierarchies

  • Political structures were less plotted, more organic, springing from character dynamics.
  • The city’s “window dressing” democracy hides the reality of autocratic rule.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 47:29):
    “Democracy as window dressing. That is kind of the point of this book.”

• Mirrored Scenes

  • The book opens and closes with a character begging on the execution platform—a deliberate, poetic echo.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 51:02):
    “The book starts off with somebody begging on the platform and ends with Maximus begging on the platform.”

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Twists, Endings, and Surprises

[51:31 – 58:39]

• Plot Surprises

  • Brooker’s double-cross was a later development. His character became an unexpected villain.
  • The identity of Python and various “breadcrumbs” (like Elara’s silence and power) are sprinkled for attentive readers.

• Chapter Titles

  • Wolfe is a champion of creative chapter titles, often echoing dialogue or thematic beats.
  • In Python, chapter titles are teased as being “way more brutal.”
  • Quote (Wolfe, 57:52):
    “Y’all are gonna hate chapter titles and Python, though...those ones are way more brutal.”

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Character Backstories & Development

[59:01 – 66:49]

• Shadira (Shade)

  • Her arc is “backward,” starting self-assured and ending in self-doubt—a mirror for her journey’s next phase.

• Age of Characters

  • The maturity of 30-something leads is integral to their grounded, life-experienced choices.

• Maximus and Elara

  • Deeper backstory on the Sorrels coming in Python, which will uncover layers of generational corruption and trauma.
  • Criticism of “victim blaming” in reader responses to Elara’s parenting is addressed head-on; Wolfe seeks to challenge those narratives.

• Jaeger & Mikael

  • Jaeger works every angle, driven by self-preservation and rebellion. More secrets and backstory to come.
  • Mikael’s role is emotionally vital but less front-and-center; his actions will be further revealed.

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Callum’s Fate

[69:36 – 73:33]

• On the Death of Callum
  • Callum is really dead (“it’s not fantasy”), which devastates the hosts.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 70:02):
    “My answer...is it’s not fantasy. That’s always my answer to this question.”
  • The emotional and narrative impact of his death is crucial; he was the group’s “glue.” His presence and legacy will continue shaping the story, especially for Lira.

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Python (Book 2) Teasers & Loose Ends

[76:41 – 80:42]

• Where Will Python Begin?

  • Three months after Daggermouth’s end; all characters are in crisis, no one’s in a good place.

• Intensity Level

  • Python’s emotional stakes are “10 times worse”—the characters move from internalized rage to outward action.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 78:24):
    “It’s like 10 times worse...now that rage has ignited and they’re doing something about it.”

• POV Expansion

  • More perspectives: Jaeger and Brooker will have POVs, plus new surprise voices. Some cameos/side characters become more prominent.
  • Quote (Wolfe, 79:47):
    “In Python, we do get Jaeger’s point of view. We have Brooker’s point of view. So we have more POVs.”

• Loose Ends

  • Broader world lore and the other city-states will be revealed and possibly left partially open for future expansion.

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Lightning Round: Python Character Arcs (One-Word Teasers)

[81:32 – 83:05]

• Jameson: “Healthy”
• Lira: “Rough”
• Elara: “Proud”
• Brooker: “Hot” / “Intriguing”
• Grayson: “Rewarding”
• Shadira (Shade): “Incredible”
• Quote (Wolfe, 83:05):
  “She deserves the world. Oh my gosh. She does. She does.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Nicole: “It was so masterfully done that I didn’t even realize that’s what you were doing to us. And yet, that’s exactly how I felt. I trust no one in this world. Not even you?” ([35:32])
• Wolfe (on Elara): “I think you’re in a political world and now that we know that she is Python, I think it kind of changes the way we see her...” ([67:17])
• Lexi (about Python): “On a scale of one to Daggermouths, I could flip over a car with pure feminine rage alone—where does Python sit?"
  Wolfe: “It’s like, 10 times worse.” ([78:24])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Welcome & Spoiler Warning: [03:20 – 04:34]
• Interview Introduction: [06:00]
• Rapid Fire ‘Getting to Know You’: [07:00 – 09:19]
• On Editing Process: [07:32 – 08:40]
• Dystopian Influences: [09:22 – 11:01]
• Daggermouth Worldbuilding: [29:25 – 33:11]
• Inspiration Behind Key Elements: [29:35]
• On Surveillance: [35:42 – 37:43]
• Spoiler Section Start: [41:24]
• Favorite Scenes Discussion: [42:04 – 45:13]
• Mirrored Platform Scenes: [51:02]
• Python Teasers & POV Expansion: [79:47 – 80:42]
• Character Arc One-Word Descriptions: [81:32 – 83:05]

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Overall Tone & Style

• Warm, energetic, irreverent: True to the hosts’ “fangirls” moniker, the episode is lively, heartfelt, and filled with sincere appreciation for Wolfe’s work.
• Candid, emotionally honest: Wolfe is open about her process, personal history, and the real-world pains that infuse her characters and world.
• Feminist, witty, darkly comic: The conversation embraces adult themes and robust, unapologetic female perspectives, matching the book’s tone.

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Final Thoughts

This is a must-listen episode for Daggermouth fans or anyone interested in contemporary dystopian romance fiction. Wolfe’s interview offers rare behind-the-scenes access to her creative process, strong-willed characters, and the bleak-yet-hopeful universe she’s building. The sisters' dynamic keeps things engaging and relatable, while the spoiler section offers both catharsis and tantalizing teasers for what’s next.

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Where to Find More

• H.M. Wolfe: Instagram/TikTok @hmwolf | www.hmwolf.com
• Fantasy Fangirls: fantasyfangirls.com | @fantasyfangirlspod

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Share this episode with your dagger-mouthed friends and prepare for Python—if your heart can handle it.

Transcript

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[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

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And you all know me with my marketing brain. I have very high standards for website tools. But Squarespace delivers in every way. One thing I love is their integrated Squarespace SEO tools. Every website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions and auto generated site map and more so you show up more often on search engines and bring in more of your ideal customers. Yes.

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[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Check out squarespace.com FFG to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain using code FFG.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Welcome, welcome welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls Podcast where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character theme series and more.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm Lexi, older sister and Fantasy Lore nerd.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And today's a very special episode where H.M. wolf is joining us to talk about Daggermouth.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

We are so excited to be interviewing her about this dark distance dystopian romance that is re releasing tomorrow, July 28th.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

First things first, please listen closely to our spoiler warning. Part one of this HM Wolf conversation will be spoiler free so it is safe to listen to. If you have not read Daggermouth, then part two will be spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers for Daggermouth.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So with all that said, if you don't know how this book ends, which you really want to know before you listen to part two, but if you don't know, then part one is for you. Don't worry, we will have a big spoiler warning before we enter part two so you don't learn the last five pet pages that make all of us

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

go what the fuck.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Next up, we at Fantasy Fangirls are adults who say adult things about adult books. In other words, friends, this podcast is

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

rated R when we're talking a dark dystopian, we're talking a dark, dark dystopian. So please be mindful of those little listening ears.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Additionally, we would love to see you at upcoming live events.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

In fact, we are interviewing H.M. wolf in person at Tattered Cover in Denver on August 4th. Also, our ACOTAR 6 and 7 midnight release parties are with Tattered Cover and Booking Gather in Denver, Colorado.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And then we also have our live show tour starting in Chicago on September 9, Charlotte, North Carolina on September 24 and New York City on September 27.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Links to all of these events and more are in the show notes and on our website. Check it out for all the details.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Last thing before we jump into this Dagger mouth episode with H.M. wolf. If you love Fantasy Fangirls and want more events, more content, more community, and so much more, please check out Fantasy Fan Club.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

We have six membership tiers that you can join, which includes access to our BOP and Discord live Q&As, a book club, which next month is Daggermouth for Book Club, early access to ad free episodes, welcome gifts, and so much more.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

If you're interested in the fan club, learn more and join the [e-mail] fanclub. The link is also in the show. Notes and friends, thank you so, so much from the bottom of our hearts for supporting us here at Fantasy Fangirls as we turn this little podcast into a dream come true. It is all because of you.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And now it is time to sit down with HM Wolf and enter newfound haven. Welcome. Welcome to Fantasy Fangirls. HM Wolf.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Hi. How are you doing today?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm like kind of starstruck a little. I'm gonna lie. I've been really trying to keep it cool while we've been chatting off air, but I'm gonna be so uncool for a second. You're amazing and I kind of love you, so this is exciting.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Right back at you. Me also being like all giddy and being like, I'm so excited to be here. It's been on like my bucket list.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh my God, I'm so excited.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Thank you guys for having me. Absolutely.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

We are huge fans of Daggermouth and we are so excited to chat with you as the re release is coming up here. And so the first half of this episode will be no spoilers for Daggermouth or any other books. And then the second half, don't worry, we will give a big spoiler warning and then that'll be the spoiler central discussion because you know, we have to talk about that ending. All right.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Oh my God.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right. We always like to start our interviews with some rapid fire getting to know you. So, H.M. wolf, what are you currently reading?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Honestly, I'm currently reading Python because I have to write it, so I'm hyper focused on that. So currently reading my own work.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

This work that you're reading.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

What is this book that I'm reading? Yeah, so like literally currently reading right now my own writing so I can get it done, proofing all that stuff.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So when you're, when you're reading your work, do you like download it onto your like Kindle or your iPad? Or do you read it on your screen or like, how does, how does, how do you?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It's gonna sound like an ad, but.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, my God.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

The Kindle Scribe is the best thing that has ever happened to my editing process. Because you can download it and I don't know which one it is, but the way that you can download it and you can make notes inside of your document so I can read it. If I'm reading on my computer, I'm still in writing mode. And so I don't just let myself read, but if I'm reading it on my Kindle, I can actually read like a reader, like, POV for it, but I can still make notes. And I have. There's a whole workspace in it where you can, like, have folders of, like, actual notes. I do a lot of outlining in there. And so like all of my, like, continuity for Python and from Daggermouth to Python, I have a whole folder of all my scribe notes because I'm reading Daggermouth making notes, and then I'm reading Python and inside of my document too. If I have any edits that I need to make, I can edit them inside my document and then export it and upload it to my computer and just look at that document as I'm going in and like, fixing the things that I caught. So it sounds like an ad, but I really love it. It's so good.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

You're gonna be responsible for multiple hundreds of dollars.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Literally. It is like, it changed the game for me because I was like, if I was. When I'm reading it on my computer, I will. I can type and so I can change things. And I. It's like, I'll never get past that editing stage. But if I can't do that and just make notes and I'm able to go back and be like, did I make this note in the moment because I really liked it or did xy? So it's. I don't know. It's fantastic.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I love that you. Because I actually did this with Oath when I was reading the final version. I read it as if I was deep diving it. So I was like, color coding it with the different colors and it changed the game because I was like, oh, this is like, I can delete this entire paragraph. Or oh, that transition's terrible, Nicole. Let's fix that in editing. It's such a different.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It really is process.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay, so with Daggermouth being a dystopia book. Dystopia is coming back. We're all very excited. Do you have a favorite dystopia book especially? I'll call it Growing up, because that was so big for us, you know, like, in our teen years and all of that. Like, what is your favorite dystopia book?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Not a book, but a comic. I would say V for Vendetta is probably one of my favorites of how it started. I like it's. And then the progression of it even to, like, the movie. It's been like, one of my favorites for so long. And I thought it was so clever. And I like, took. Took inspiration for that in my own writing of dystopia from them. I would say the one that I. V for Vendetta probably made biggest impact on me from a dystopian, like, growing up reading it. But I think the one that I've had the most fun with that has, like, elongated my love for it and like, pushed me into, like, my adult years is the Hunger Games. Mostly just because we can one they continue to come out and it was just so different. I don't feel like I. At the time, it was like, I don't think I'd ever read anything even slightly similar to that. So it was so enthralling. And the way that they keep coming out is really just like the nostalgia of, like, my youth of being able to, like, relive that feeling that I got with the first time of reading Hunger Games. And so I think for the most fun that I remember having was probably Hunger Games. But, like, forever in my heart is V for Vendetta. Like, that is my, like. That is my, like, passion, like, comic.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That's amazing. I. I only know of it from the movies. So, yeah, I'm really excited to check out the comics. You said it's comics? Yeah.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

Awesome.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Now, on a scale of 1 to 5, how excited are you for Sunrise on the reaping the. The movie?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Listen, I'm gonna be so honest. I watch these based off of, like, full on vibes. I have not read the later books, and so I'm very excited for. For them. I've watched the later movies, but I have not read the books. So I'm like. A lot of people are saying like, X, Y and Z like this and this. And I'm like, this is vibes for me. I'm having a great time because, like, the first Hunger Games I read all the books. I was like, well, this and this and this. And I'm like, I want the nostalgia. I'm going in this for vibes of what I felt. So I'm pumped. But I'm also like, I don't want to.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm scared for you. But I'm equally excited, scared in a

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

way, of how hard is your heart

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

about to be ripped out?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Okay, next question.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

You know what?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

After what you put us through with

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Dagger, you know what?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Not cool.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So are you typically a pantser or a plotter?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Pantser. 100%.

[Dani Pellegrino]

Really?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah, I try. So I want to be a plotter so bad, but it just does not work for me. My brain does not work in plotting. Like, I. On my. Across from me, I have my plotting boards and I have all of my plotting cards up there.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

I have.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I try so hard, I don't follow a single goddamn one. I get it done and I sit down and write and I'm like, here's a whole new story.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So, like, I want to know what the original and. Yes.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay. So did the original. Yes.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

Okay.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. That's good. That was a very big spoilers question

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I was about to ask.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Thank you for catching me.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, my gosh. That's amazing.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Spoilers.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yes.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Who would you grab a coffee with from Daggermouth?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Callie. He would have.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That's who I would also grab a coffee with. Yeah. A drink afterward and other things too. But, you know,

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

but I just one. I know that he paid for my coffee. He wouldn't try and poison it. And if he did try and poison it, he would tell me that it's poisoned. He'd pull out my chair. He'd probably leave me with some extra money just for like, you know, send me on your way. And I just know he's like. And also, like, he's fantastic to look at. Everybody else, I feel like, would try and kill me. Jameson, I feel like, would probably, like, I would leave and he would be texting me like, I'm in love with you. So I'm like, calm down. Like, we had one coffee day for our calm down.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

What is your favorite POV to write? And second question attached to that, did that change in book two?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So this is like a two faceted question because I had one that was my favorite to write fun wise and my favorite to write complexity wise. Fun wise. It was Cali, because he was the comedic relief in that book. And whenever something became heavy or even there was a heavy scene, he is always the one to, like, lighten the mood, even if he's talking about something heavy. So he was the most easiest to write. Right. Murder Parkway. Like, and it's just. He's just so easy. Like, there was something that came so naturally from him on the page of just like his humor and the way that he was so serious but like didn't take life too seriously. And then like complexity wise as somebody that was so multifaceted for me was Grayson. He was the hardest for me to write, but I think I learned a lot about myself in writing him and the fact that he was very complex and. And I had to figure out how to make multiple things exist inside like where shade. She's also a very complex person, but she's also not having multiple different feelings inside of her at the same time. She has one that she's very sure about where Grayson is holding so many different feelings at once. So he was like, he gave me the biggest challenge, but I think it was also very fun because it did challenge my mind and I also challenged my writing, which I think like forced me as a writer to grow writing him. So he was really hard. But also like at the end of the day I was like, I think I had fun doing that with him.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

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[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

You were saying that you are a pantser. Did you? Because in Daggermouth it's each chapter or even several times within a chapter. It's different povs that we're exploring. Did you kind of go with the pantser vibes where it's like ooh, like this would be a great time for me to insert this POV now or like did it flow like that pretty naturally?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So Dagger Moth is the first book that I haven't tried to force myself into being a plotter. I was just because I was writing it. So on the whim of I'm just writing this for me it's not supposed be to to be anything. I didn't write it with the expectation that I had my other books. So I wasn't trying to do things quote unquote. Right. And in my head it's always been the right way to do this is outline and you have to do that and like plot it all out. So Daggermouth is the first book that I just kind of went into it. There is a chapter where it switches off quite quickly between Shade and Grayson's pov. That was all originally written in Shade's pov. But as I when I wrote it I was like oh this is like a really like when I was writing this I saw it in my head kind of like movie esque. And so in my head as I was writing that scene I was like oh this is like a really cool flip flopping of that POV and seeing what they're both thinking, because more times than not, they're usually thinking the same thing in a very different way, but the same exact thing. And I think it was just really cool to be able to, like. And just in general, for this timeline, you kind of had to, like, a chapter feels too hard for a POV switch happening at the same exact time as everything else. Most of the POVs kind of just, like, flowed from, like, okay, somebody else. Like, this is happening now. I need to kind of switch it to same time frame. So not a chapter, but going off somewhere else. But I think the one that I originally wrote was just that one chapter. Where I originally wrote it in one, then was like. Like, oh, wait, this could be a cinematic moment in my head. So that's the one I changed. But most of the other ones were just, someone wants to talk now, so I guess I'm gonna let them talk. So, like, I'm at the mercy of them.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right, so what is something. When you think about being at your desk or wherever you might be writing, what is something that you always need with you?

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Your.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Your emotional support item?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

My water bottle, my baby that I have here that sits with me everywhere it is be up. It is damaged when I take with me everywhere. And an Alani. I always have an Alani. Like, it is, like, I literally finished my Lonnie before I got in here, so I think it's the only time I don't have one. But I. Oh. Like, I always have some sort of caffeine on my desk, and it's usually a lot of your coffee, because I'm a caffeine girl through and through, so I don't.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm also a night owl. Right. Yeah, I remember that correctly. You drink coffee at night.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I made a difference in the morning, so I like it well. And at this point, it's like, does it really hurt me because I drink it so much and I drink so much of it. It's so. But I'm also like. I think it's a comfort thing. Like, if I don't have my caffeine and if I don't have a, like, a routine, I don't get into, like, the routine of writing. Like, the moment that I sit down with a coffee in the morning and sit down, my body, like, has kind of learned, oh, we're going into this mode. If I don't have it, even some, because sometimes I've made coffee and I'll take, like, a sip of it, but it's more so Like, I have the smell, I have the aroma. I have, like, certain things. Like, at night. I always light a candle at night, and it's a forest candle. And it's kind of like the ambiance that is more so the. Like, that my body recognizes it and it's like, you're ready to get to work.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Are you a physical, an ebook, or an audiobook person?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I am a. I'm an ebook, but I'm a physical for hardcovers. Always for, like, shelf trophies. I could not read a hardcover for the life of me because I drop them quite often.

[Zocdoc User/Testimonial]

Yes.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And on your face.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yes. It's very uncomfortable. So I'm definitely more of an ebook girl. But when I'm missing a book, I'll definitely go for a paperback, but it's not very often. But I love an audiobook. Like, if I'm not reading on my Kindle, I'm picking up on my audiobook because I'm always like, go, go, go. So.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

But I. Yeah, really quick, shout out the freaking Daggermouth Audiobook. It is one of Lexi and I's favorite new audiobooks.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

The duet is. Oh, my gosh.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, my God.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It was like.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

It was so well done. So well done.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Oh, my gosh. It's like, I was. When I listened to. Because originally when I listened to their voices, I was like, well, it's Teddy. We gotta get Teddy. I love Teddy. I was like, okay. And then they gave their actual. And then, like, Angel. I didn't know angel before this. And it actually makes me really sad. In the audiobook world, when you're looking for narrators, it's one of those things where there aren't as many. Like, not that there aren't as many, but they don't offer you as many choices for black female. And so I had to, like, specify one. We're gonna have a black female narrator because she's embodying. She needs to embody the main character. And they sent me angel, and I listened to her, and I was like, done. That's it. She sent me, like, one. I had her send over one audition for. That was just Shade. And then I had her send over another audition. There was multiple people talking, and I was like, this is my girl.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right, so, Age, we know that you have written quite a few different genres, and you've also teased that you have a few other genres in mind, too, to write. So do you have a favorite genre to write? And also ask is it is similar with reading as well?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So my favorite genre to read is, like, true. Crime thrillers, I would say. And like sometimes a little bit like his historical. I'm dipping my toe into that now. But like, so I read a little bit differently than I write. And I think a lot of that comes from one I don't want to. You can pull inspiration from the books that you read. And especially right now in the world, I get scared that if I'm reading these books that people are going to be like, oh, you took it from this. You took it from this. So when I am writing, I try and read and compare completely different genres. I like romantasy, I like fantasy, but it's not my go to genre. I really enjoy the brain work of writing in them, but I like the brain work of reading in like true crime and like thrillers and things like that. So it's just. They flex my brain differently and I. So it's a whole different. I don't know if that makes sense.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Of all of the daggermouth characters, who are you most like and why?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I am probably the most like Shade, honestly. And it's her stubbornness. And I think a little bit of like, when it comes to her, you'll see a lot in a lot of my books, like the FMCs going through like alcoholism and like their decisions. And I'm sober, so I was an alcoholic. And I think that that plays a very large role into like your decision making. And you're just like cognitive skills of like, where you're gonna be upset, where you're not gonna be upset. And she uses it as a coping mechanism. But at the same time, like when you get to. I think she states in the book as well that they had put, after she broke a liquor bottle, that they had put it back in the same place. Like they wanted her to drink herself to death.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I think that that's very telling of just general society that they don't. They make certain things very accessible to like lower income houses, lower like demographics that are seen as like less than, while they don't make things that are actually needed, available. And so it was very much like the sense of like that kind of played into her whole story with that. But I think also just she's so. She knows once she has her mind set on something, it is really hard to change her mind. And I am very much like that. Like once I decide that I want to do something or I'm done with something, I can get like hyper focus and not even be willing to talk to anybody to like hear it out. And so she was really cathartic for me, right? Because, like, it's like, she has a lot of flaws. Like, she is a. She is a walking red flag. Like, she is like, I love her to death, but that girl needs therapy. Like, she is not. Not okay. And I'm like, damn similar to her. I'm like, fuck, man, what does that say? If I'm calling myself similar? But I think it's so, like, honest in the fact that so many people grieve differently. And the way that she grieves, it's very much her surroundings built her. And I relate to that because if I had been in different surroundings or if, like, certain parts of my upbringing were different, I would have reacted to situations differently. And so I think it's very much like nature versus nurture, because you can see that her true nature is nurturing. Like, you see her jump in to help. Like, she. There was no reason in the book that she needed to jump in to help Lira or Grayson at any of their crash out moments, but she did. So her true nature is nurture, but she has been built not to. And so I think it's also, like, she's very. Like, there's a duality to her that I really, really love. And you have to Tough exterior, deeply, deeply emotional on the inside. I would say that she's probably a Scorpio. I think she is very much like, doesn't take any bullshit like she's gonna say it how it is. She's very, very loyal. But she's also like, I am watching everything.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right, I want to hop into the inspiration for this dystopian setting. How did you come up with the rings and the masks and the different elements of this world?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So I didn't want it to be fantasy whatsoever, and I didn't want it to be, honestly, because of the way that I was writing it. I didn't have, like, the brain capacity to, like, create like, a huge. What's the word? Like, technological world building, where it was like, futuristic technology. But I wanted it to feel future enough that it's not like, oh, this is exactly where we are in the world right now, but close enough to, like, near future, where it's like, oh, shit. And I wanted to keep the magic out of it because I was like, I just need to. Because it was written off of just, like, how I was feeling. In general, magic didn't really apply. And so it really came. The world itself really came from a lot of our class systems, I think, in general, just in the world that we live in today. And Then times that by X amount to make it, like, grander for the book and everything and to show more and more divides. I think, like, when you talk about love between rings and how that's illegal and things like that, that kind of pulled from history for me, from interracial marriage. And that's not something that was allowed. So I pulled from little bits and pieces history that has kind of not necessarily repeated itself, but things that have happened in our world and twisted it a little bit to make sense in this world. I took inspiration for the separation, the stratified city, in a sense, from, like, the Hunger Games, of how there are. That, like, that's stratified. Obviously, there aren't 12 districts, but in my head, and I know that for them it's more of, like a train to get from one end to the other. In my head, I wanted all of them to constantly be looking at luxury that they could never touch. And also, like, having the heart in the middle, where it's so, like, opulent and showing that it decays outward. And so it's symbolism of both. The outer rings are looking at resources that they're never going to be able to touch, while also inside the ring, the heart, it just shows, like, that it decays outward, like, because things. If things are rotten, it starts in the middle and goes outward. And so that's kind of how it. That's kind of how my mind set it up in general. And the working class, though we don't talk about the cardinal a lot. They are the working class, and they are the glue that always holds everything together. They are the ones that I think propaganda goes for first because they are the ones that are the hardest to divide. And so I think that when they're the glue, they're the ones that kind of is the middle ground between full poverty and the quote, unquote, elite of our world. Is that, like, middle class of society. And so that's kind of like the representation of them. It's also just like, so. And like, one of the things with the masks in general, I am excited about the masks because you're gonna learn a lot more about them in Python. But they are very symbolic of just the 1% in our world because they. You hide. You can hide. The people doing X, Y and z hide behind large corporations. They hide behind a lot of things. And they. It's kind of a mask in general. So for me, that was kind of my symbolism to, like, the 1% of the world in general, they get to hide behind all of these things. And though it's not a physical mask, it's corporations, it's paperwork, it's all of these things. So you never really find out who they are. So that was kind of like where the masks came from in my head. And then it just kind of got bigger from there and.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay, so we're very curious to know more about the backstory of how Newfound Haven ended up the way that it is. You just alluded that we'll learn a little bit more about the masks and Python. So understand if you can't share too much, but, like, what happened in this world before Maximus took over? How did he come into power and gain control?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So you're going to learn all of that in Python. Okay. The reason why I did it this way is because I wanted Dagger Mouth to feel so suffocating. I wanted you to not know anything. Making it so that you don't know anything makes it so you don't trust. Trust anybody. The less you know, the less you trust. And so it could be anyone. And Daggermouth is supposed to feel so small, so suffocating. There's not supposed to be a lot of hope. I mean, they're stuck in an apartment. A lot of the time, you're only stuck in, like, very small places. You're stuck in the heart. So what I can say about it is that, like, Daggermouth is small. It's suffocating. And though it is violent, you don't necessarily see, like, wartime violence in it. The world gets bigger. And with that, like, the world getting bigger, you feel less suffocated. You feel like you can breathe, you know, more information. It gets a little bit more in the sense of, like, there's wartime violence because we are going into wartime, but you have more hope. So it's less suffocating, more hope, a little bit more violence with war, where Dagger Mouth, I wanted it to feel like you're a little bit trapped and, like, claustrophobic. I think it'll make sense to a lot of people, because that's one of the biggest things that I hear people say is that, like, why is this world here? I didn't really get any world building with it. And I'm like, you'll. It's all to come. And the way that it comes is very, very critical to the story and shows that, like, there is a narrative that we are trying to control here of how our world came to be. Because at this point, it's just all, you know, is, like, the world fell and, like, these city states survived. And I don't know, in the book, there is one part where they are driving around the city, her and Grayson, and she said that she always suspected that there are city states, but she didn't know for sure. And he had just confirmed that for her. And that's like hinting at the fact that this government controls the narrative of even how their began like came about. And that was done on purpose. Like, and I know it's hard, but at the same time it's like, if I don't know how we got here, who am I? How do I trust? Like, who else? You know what I mean? Like, how just plopped into this world and I'm supposed to trust any of you? Like, no, don't trust anyone.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

It was so masterfully done that I didn't even realize that. That that's what you were doing to us. And yet that's exactly how I felt. I was like, I trust no one in this world. Not even you?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Hm.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

No, not even you. That's especially not you. Especially not you. One more penultimate question for you in the spoiler free section. How much research did you do on surveillance in Dagger Mouth? Because I'm in awe of your brain.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

That's funny. I didn't do that much research on surveillance.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Are you kidding?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

No, I did a. The biggest thing that I did was like look up like military grade drones and things like that. And that was the biggest thing that I did on surveillance itself. I wasn't in my head. That was more so the made up part. And turns out a lot of it's not that made up, but the like the drones and things like that of like things that drones can do. I tried to make this as near like most of the stuff in this exists in the world today at a military level where it hasn't been released to like the general public. So it feels futuristic in a sense of some of these things, but it actually all exists. So like that's most of the research. Like, that's kind of. It was kind of like, does this exist? Does it not exist? Because if it didn't exist, I didn't want to make it up because I wanted it to feel real and not have to teach the reader something in the sense of like a new object, but that it felt familiar. But like on research, it's like on surveillance itself, I. Other than like, does this drone exist? I didn't really look up anything. I was just vibing it crazy.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I love it crazy.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That's like. It's so impressive because as you're. As I was reading This I was like, her brain must have like, had cat. Like, like, documents of. Here's all the hoobity boops on surveillance.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

My brain was literally like la dee da. I'm so sick.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Stop.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Straight up. This book came out of me just being like, there was like an. I was actually quite. This is the book that I was worried that, like, sorry, FBI agent. Because I'm like looking into a lot of military things and like weapons and like government when I am searching. So I'm like, please, no, it's not. I'm not doing anything crazy.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Just read a little book, okay?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Just like Google me for one second and you'll understand. But it was really though my brain for this one was la de da. Like, it was just like, I'm so impressed. I was so angry and in my own headspace that I kind of just took things that I've seen and experienced in real life and like, as much as we don't want to really think about it and talk about it, this like, surveillance is out there. Like, we look back at Snowden and like the things that he released when he like blew the whistle. We look at these things and like, though we don't talk about it a lot, we are getting so surveyed. And so I wanted to kind of bring that into like, the forefront of what, like, nothing goes on. Nothing goes on there that they don't know about. And that's why a lot of people, one, the poor, really don't have any cellular devices. Because if you give cellular devices to a certain demographic and like the boundary you have the dagger mouse, they're going to be able to figure out a way around that. So they're just not allowed to have them and they have to figure out a way to get them. Makes it harder for you to figure out a way, like, to communicate. And so it's just. For me, it was just very much like, I want to make them feel suffocated. And that was how I did it.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So, final question before we officially move into spoiler central, where we will be talking about the end of the book. And yes, we do have questions for you. We know that Daggermouth is part of the heart duology. Is there a chance for other spin offs or anything else that you might have in the works with that?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

The world in its sense is so much bigger. There are two other city states to explore if I wanted to. So for right now, like, the furthest I'm thinking at the moment is Python and getting that out, but I foresee myself revisiting just this world because there's so much more to tell. There's other city states. There's so many characters that I feel like they're not main characters, but they deserve to be. And so being able to just, like, see and explore and also just, like, seeing how the other city states live in this world that has collapsed, I think it would just be so much fun to not to like, create a universe out of this rather than just a single city.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

It feels like a universe. It feels. And, like, we've only read book one.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

It feels, but it feels that way. There's, like, a few little comments here and there where we're like, wait a second.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

We're like, the other places.

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[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Well, like, what are they doing? Why aren't they helping? Why aren't they here? And I think it's just so fun because it's a good way to. In my head, I kind of see, like, at some point, at the end of, like, the universe, when I'm done writing, I think it would be so cool to be able to, like, write a book that includes all three city states. And, like, we see that. And I think that that would be, like, the ultimate, like, ending quote unquote to the universe. When it comes to my books is having a final book that includes all of the main characters from all three books coming together. I think that that would be, like, a beautiful kind of, like, end to it all. But there's so. In my head, there's so much to explore between now and then. I could be in this universe for, like, years to come, but at this current moment, when it comes to writing inside of it, I'm just getting to, like, the end of Python, and then I need. Honestly, I need my own palette cleanser because this world is so dark. Like, as much as Daggermouth was so much easier to write because there was no pressure on it, Python has been a lot harder because there is so much pressure now on Python to be as good as Daggermouth. And the world is just getting darker, darker. And so it. Like, there's that emotion in it as well. But once I do my palette cleanser, I think at some point, I'll probably revisit this world in this universe.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Now let us move into our spoilers, spoilers, spoilers section. So if you have not finished Daggermouth, and I mean, like, the last sentence of Daggermouth, then lovingly, so lovingly, leave,

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

look away, finish the book.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Look away, look away, leave, finish the book, come back here. We will be here when you're done. Hm. Let's get into some spoilers conversations. I'm not going to say, all right, interrogation.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

But let's start off with the writing process of Daggermouth. It's the. Especially with it being. I'm gonna call your throwaway project that you shared that it really was just very personal. And then it became this huge sensation. But what was your favorite scene to write?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Probably shade in the prison when everyone starts peeing. I think that one was probably one of my favorites. Or lira, when she is standing up in front of all the women and she sees all the women, like, take off their dresses to their slips. I think because they're both very, very strong and fighting in their own way. And the blatant mirror to it one is in this elite high. It's like the rebellion is beautiful. It is not messy. And while it's life threatening, these people are gonna die. I think the contrast of the prison versus out in the light of day is very, very cool from how they were raised, but still, like, having their own kind of rebellion. But those, I think those are my favorite because as much as we love the men in this book, the women are what carry it. Like, I love them and they are the, like, true, like. Like power and like, soul of this book. And so those are kind of like the. I think for the prison one specifically, when I was writing it, it was. It was kind of like, I need, like, an emotional break after this. But it's also just like, I didn't put music to that one. A lot of people ask me, like, what are your. Like, what were the lyrics that you'd put to that? Or, like, what song was in your head? I am very much a music buff myself. Like, I started my writing process as writing music and, like, playing instruments and things. I think a lot of, like, the way that I write in my prose comes from writing, like, lyrics for music. It moves people so differently. So like, what? Classical music might move me in a way. Screamo music could move somebody else in the same exact way. And I didn't want to take that experience away from them of what they hear in their head by giving it words. And so it was kind of like, create your own moment of the sound that you're hearing and the anthem that you are hearing. As the book goes, since we're in spoiler section, and I'm not gonna say this. I mean, I'm not obviously gonna spoil Python, but I'm like, spoiler section. Let me spoil.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Please keep talking. Yes, yes.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

That is a thread that keeps getting tugged at through this entire series and you kind of see her like the pain it brings her through. She keeps circling back to it in her head. It's though she has seen a lot of pain and violence and people die. She has never in her eyes, I think, been the cause of something. And that was the first like, oh, I am the cause. Not only the cause of this, but then she gets out of there and she now is hearing that people are singing and like they know what she did. So this entire rebellion in general feels like it's her fault. And I think it's less of the I'm just, it's my fault that all the people in the prison died, but it's also now my fault one that the book ended like it did because nobody would have started rebelling like this if what happened in the prison didn't start to snowball it. And so I think it speaks a lot to just like her character arc throughout the entire of like that starting point of like darkness and where she kind of goes from that.

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[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Well, so you've mentioned that you are a pantser. Did you have much of the political structure mapped out before you started writing?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

No, really, I. I wanted they. Honestly, a lot of these characters and the way that things happen just felt it came so like naturally out of my body. I think at one point I say something as democracy, as window dressing. And that is kind of the point of this book. Where there is a president, there is alluded to some council, but they don't have any say. They don't have. You see that there are structures in place, but there's only one person in power. And so for me it was. I want there to be. The idea of the city is being run by multiple people, but you only see one person in the seat of power. And everybody truly knows that that's who it is. And so for me, it was more so like the relationships, though the relationships really are the subplot, like the romance in general, the relationships, their dynamics built this world because their dynamics would change. And I knew what I wanted their dynamics to be, which meant that I had to create the world around what I want their dynamics to be, even if they are a subplot. And so it kind of built off of the characters themselves. And I think I put more plotting effort and structure into how I wanted the characters to go and kind of let the world materialize around who the characters are and like what kind of world would have built them.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That is just so, so, so amazing because one of the things that gripped me like by the throat shade style is from the very first scene that we get in Grayson's pov, it's like for me, that political structure just like slaps you in the face. And it is so clear and you feel it, you see it. It's like you're saying with like the music, like, I felt like the eerie like, duh, like not like Jaws, but you know what I mean? Just like in the background with great like, oh God, that's. That opening scene was just like, let me just grab you and never let you go. Until the end.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It's crazy, though, because that opening scene, I. I already know in my head. Like, I had a movie playing in my head for that opening scene. I don't know if, like, I don't know if, you know the song Saint Mesa Lion.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, the. Like, bring the lion.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

That one. Yeah. So that's kind of what played. The beginning of that is what played. And I always have, like, a drone circling around the city and slowly coming in and looking at the people and, like, looking at. And so I wanted it to feel, like, cinematic, but at the same time, like, you're. We're introduced to somebody that we're supposed to love. Murdering someone.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

And, like, publicly, in a very vile and, like, morally black way. And so I was like, I'm not gonna shy away from making these characters morally black. Like, this is who they are. But the. The thing about it, though, is that for Grayson to be as complex as he is, the political system had to be something that kept him trapped, because he's not the type of person that's really going to, like, stay trapped if there's not risk to it. And so it had to be strong enough and, like, dangerous enough for him to be able to stay trapped, because the only reason he stayed trapped in there was because he cared about a sister and mom if it was not them. He didn't. Like, as we know, he didn't give a fuck about his own life whatsoever. He was basically like, yo, I'm ready. Take me. So the only reason he was staying there is for them, and it had to feel dangerous enough to keep him doing his job.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

You say that. And then in that opening scene where he hesitates because the woman is begging, and that mirrors right back to the two women in his life who he really cares about. And. Oh, my goodness.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

God, it was so good.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Okay, can I just say that the. This is one of, like, my proudest moments of this book is that the book starts off with somebody begging on the platform and ends with Maximus begging on the platform.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

No. Yes.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes. When I got to that point that I highlighted the shit out of that in my E reader, I was so fucking excited. I was like, oh, my God. God, that's so good.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It's just like. And especially who shoots him, too.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Let's get into that.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Okay.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I want to ask you about this. So first of all, what an ending. I know we've been alluding to it a whole lot. We'll be diving a lot more into it here shortly. But again, going back to that, you Know Pantser versus a plotter and how you did have more of the characters mapped out and where they were going. Did you have that ending mapped out or did you visually see it and have something that you were working toward her? How in the world did you come up with that ending?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So the ending in of itself, I knew how it was going to. I knew that it was going to be her. I knew that There are a lot of things that changed along the way to get there. I'm going to be so honest. The Brooker, when I originally thought of everything wasn't supposed to double cross anyone. Like he was just supposed to stay good. But as time went on I was like, were killing. Like yes, the government can be the villain, but I need a villain to place it on. And the way that Brooker double crossed them, he was so untrustworthy to me in general. Like I know a lot of people wanted to love him and wanted to trust him because it's like oh, a happy moment. Like they got their brother back but would we ever really trust him? Like how would I create that? And so in my head I was like this is the perfect moment for like a double cross.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That was, I think that is one

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

of the biggest things that changed is Brooker was not supp to like switch, do the switch up. And so that added just like that extra like for me I, I didn't try and make it super like oh, we don't know if he's dead or not. I thought I made it pretty like, I mean it's. If you read enough books, you know that like if you, if you hear certain hints, you know that that person's super alive.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Like I thought it was, I was convinced.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Convinced that he was dead? No, no, no, no, that, that Jaeger was Brooker. But like oh really? I was convinced.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Oh, I didn't have that idea.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

But I thought I was absolutely convinced that Brooker was Python. Like I was like oh, I figured it out and then he is not him and wanted to think and keep reading. And then it's like oh my God, Brooker's actually a bad guy. And then it's like you kind of forget about Python for a second and

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

it's like oh my God, oh my gosh. It's like, it's so funny to me because many things that didn't, I didn't necessarily think as, oh, this is going to be a jaw dropping moment. I'm like, oh, just like this is just what happens. And then for it to see because in my head I Was like, quite. I've talked about it enough that obviously people have to be like, there's something up here with Burger. Like, he can't actually. Like, we don't really know enough. And so for when people were so surprised, like, I tried to make it because of the twist at the end. I tried to. For people to be like, I figured that out and kind of tried to, like, give you enough to figure out while keeping enough so that you are blindsided by something. But that it was my. It's like my favorite moment.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Did you have any favorite Easter eggs for who Python was going to be, like, sprinkled throughout that you can share with us?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Like, we don't know much about Jaeger, but we also don't know, like, we know who Callum is. Like, we know him, but what do you actually do? And so there's a phone call. We don't know who he's talk. Talking to. We don't know anything. And he talks about getting her out, like, and we're not getting her out.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And so.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

And everyone is like, well, how could it be? Because we already know that when you're trying to connect the dots of who he's talking to or who he's talking about getting out, they would be like, well, they want to be arguing with him to get Shade out, because they're already going to try and get her. So who are they trying to get out and stuff?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I thought it was Lyra. That's who I thought.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah. And so it's like the way, like, I don't know, there was just like, little things of, like, I'm not really, like, pushing it on to like, say it's Python, really, but I'm going to drop little things. We talk about. One, Callum says that your mom scares me. Like, he talks about that. And. And Grayson says her silence scares everyone. But, like, she is. So it's like little tiny things where it's like, yeah, she's like, quiet. But she also created the mask. She's the one that put the mask policy into place. Some big roles that don't match her silence. And so to like, see that is very much like, if you caught on to it, you know, that none of the. One, I'm not gonna write a submissive woman in this book. Like, ain't no way. And two, there's just little tiny things that are, like, slid in about her that I think are, for me, breadcrumbs. But I don't know about anyone else.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah, we love the inclusion of chapter titles, honestly. Bring chapter titles. Back.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I fucking love that.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Was there a particular recipe for choosing the chapter names?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Most of the titles were something that somebody said in the title. So it was more so of figure out what this means than when you come across it, you understand? And I think a lot of them were said in a context of. Some of them. Them sounded nicer or worse than they actually were. And so you could think that, oh, this is like, oh, and some of them, like, do your fucking worst. We're not like, we, like. And, like, Jameson fucking fine. Like, there's a story. And then I think, like, don't die. Like, I think some of them, it was just fun to be able to be like, what does that mean? And then once you get there, you realize that, like, putting it together. But also, I knew that I wanted to do the countdown at the end because in general, this whole book is a giant countdown. I'm setting on, like, we have a time frame, and we know that time frame pretty right away, so we want to immediate countdown. And I knew that I wanted to do the countdown at the end, so I was like, I'm not gonna suddenly add in chapter headers for this countdown. And also, like, it just. I feel like it gives it some personality. Like, I need a little bit of personality. And like. Like, when it comes back to, like, because I regret not doing it in my first books, it kind of. In my head, I was kind of like, oh. When I read this back, I'm not like, oh, what's this about? Because it's just like, okay, chapter 10. So for me, it was kind of like, what am I getting in?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I love chapter titles and how that's. I feel like it's starting to trend a little bit more.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I think they are coming back a little bit.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right. Fingers crossed. You lead the way.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Y' all are gonna hate chapter titles and Python, though. That's what I'm gonna say is those ones are way more brutal.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Ah.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

She said, well, then. So I mean, like, I'll tell you one chapter title in Python.

[Dani Pellegrino]

Yes.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It's called A Pound of Flesh.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So is that, like, in a sexy way or in a not sexy way or.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I don't know. I guess we'll find out.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That sounds like some good foreplay.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

She's like, it could definitely be foreplay.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I'm waiting for the day. Okay.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

H is like, like, damn it.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Now sideways. So fast.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right, let's keep on this with the character questions here. So earlier on, you did share about how Shade was very similar to You. And so what are several other things that you really do love about the character? Shadira, especially as an fmc, I really

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

like that she's, like, on. No, like, she is. And her arc kind of goes backwards, and you see a lot of arcs go. She starts out knowing exactly who she is. She doesn't have the, like, oh, I'm finding out, like, the learning myself. And I think that that leans into the fact that she is in her 30s, and at that point, you do have a better understanding. Understanding of who you are, what you stand for. You know yourself a little bit more. So she is really set in who she is. She has her morals. She has her values. And I love, love that about her, because she's not. Nothing about her character diminished when it came to a man. Like, she could have love for a man. She could like a man. But they did not change her. And I think that I wanted to make that important, that her and the relationship could exist outside of themselves. It wasn't, who are you without your relationship? And I really, really liked that about her. But I liked that her arc went backwards in a sense, of, I know exactly who I am, what I stand for. And by the end of the book, she had no idea. She questioned everything that she stood for. She questioned what she had done her whole entire life. So I like that she kind of had that backward arc because it gives us, like, going into Python, it gives us the full circle moment of. Of where she started and where she's going to end and starting that, like, kind of. I don't want to say, like, it's a mirror of itself, of, like, how she. Like, if you flip it. I don't know how I'm describing this in my mind, but the book one and book two is kind of going to be a mirror of her, and I really, really like that. No matter what, though, even if she knows that she's wrong, she will stand on business.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

And she will be like, I know that I'm going to regret this later, but I said what I said, and it's fine. It's a flaw, but I love that about her.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm glad you brought up that she's in her 30s. And also with Grayson being in his 30s, because, like, I. I'm in my 30s, I want to read about people who are around that same age, and it's like. I don't know. I feel like I understand their choices a lot more because they're not 21.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah.

[Zocdoc User/Testimonial]

And.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Or 19 or something like that. And I'm like, if a 19 year old's like being like, but Daddy, I love him, I'm like, just grow the fuck up.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah. Like, actually, no.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

And it's.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

But here she knew what she wanted and what she didn't want. Like, for instance, what she didn't want with Jameson and all this stuff. And I'm like, we've been like, I've been in that. Maybe not that exact situation, but like a situation of sorts.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I don't know, I just thought it was. It was such a fun getting to relate to her in that way. Yeah.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Well, and I think it's cool too, because she got to, especially with Jason Jameson, she got to say, like, I know. And I don't think, I don't feel like you see that. You see a lot more pining a From like the FMCs for the man of being like, but I really like him, but I just don't think it's gonna work. She was like, no, I'm so down with what I'm getting from him, but I don't want anything more. And a lot of women I know, I've been in places like that where I'm like, I'm super sexually attracted to you. I know what I want and I know that it's not a relationship and I'm okay with saying that. And I really, really liked that about her. But also, I know when I was 19, when I was 28, no way that I was gonna go like that I knew myself or cared enough about anything to really, like, go jump into the middle of a rebellion. So I wanted it to seem very practical of the fact that these people are making decisions based on life experience and they have enough life experience to make these decisions. And we just need older FMCs.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Can you share some backstory of specifically two characters, One, Maximus. How did he gain so much power and control to get into the position that he was in?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And if the answer is Python, then we will. So it's accept that answer.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

A lot of it.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

And this is the thing. It is, it is Python. You are learning so much about just like the sorrel name in general and how they became, like, in power. Because you hear in book one in Daggermouth, them talk about, like, for generations that this has been happening. And I think it very sick. And also I think it'll be very cool. And I mean, like, sick in a negative way. Like, it's sickening. She's like, yeah, yeah, give me in. But you see just how deep their corruption runs. But I can say, like, we learn Way before, like, the fall of humanity, just how, like, corrupt this family is. And so we learn a lot more about him and, like, Elara in book two. And I think it's. I think it'll be worth the wait of. Because of the way that it's gonna hit and, like, kind of what happens. I think it'll be worth the wait to, like, learn it all, because it's gonna be kind of like a oh, fuck moment. I trust you on that.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Absolutely. Okay, another one. If you're able to share the backstory of him, Jaeger, and. And specifically, does he know who Python is? I'm assuming he does. Okay. Okay. All right.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Is there a reason we did not get his POV for that reason?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

You almost got his pov and then I changed it because I was, like, not going into him right now. I want you guys to, like. And the thing is with him is, it's just like, do we trust him? Do we not? I know a lot of people trust him. I know a lot of people don't now. I don't know if I should. Is so, like, he is constant, and you can see, like, from, like, the conversations that they have. He is working every angle. Like, he is working for himself. Like, he is working for, like, the rebellion. He is not, like, where Jameson is, like, the good of the people. Jaeger is more, like, where can I be, like, most helpful? Like, what is going to benefit me the most? And do we trust him? Like, I think it's. He knows a lot of things that it's, like, you could have told someone, like, a single person. But also, he makes sure that all these secrets are kept. So which one is it? But we learn. But he does. And I think when Jameson asks him, do you know who Python, like, who was that? And he says, someone that I thought left the rebellion a long time ago. I think that that alludes to him being able to know, like, who it was. And then we learn about how he knows that and the background, because things are about to get tangled.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

About to.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

She says life is weaved. Jesus Christ. Yeah, well, super. I guess I should say more.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Yeah. No, we learned, and it's. So this has been the fun part of this book is giving that backstory because we learn so much about everyone and how everything is tied together and how the world is so as big as it is, so many things connect.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Does Mikael somehow enter into that tangled weave?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I mean, he is, like, in Daggermouth. Does he, like. Has he, like, a part of that in general or, like.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Like, here I am being like, oh my gosh, Did Jaeger and Ellariel like, is he Booker's real father?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Okay. I think I can say for Mikkel what his role was in book one was pretty honest to who his role is. He was less of a front facing character. His character more so was for other people's character growth. But where it's still very, very important because he talks about him and Elara, he still plays a very important role emotionally for people. But his role in general was. It isn't larger than. I mean, it's okay. It's larger in the sense like he has done things and you'll find out what he has done, but it's not in the, it's not in the same capacity as like Jaeger's got it.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Was Elara Python before or after her and Mikhail had their affair?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I have no idea. Oh, I have no idea.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I think, I don't believe, I don't believe.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I think it's gonna be. And I mean, at the end of the day, I think that there are going to be a lot of shocks in Python because we. Yeah, no,

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm just sitting back and enjoying you trying to.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

One thing I will say that I hope that Python clears up as a book and with Elara, she gets a lot of hate and like reviews and online because she didn't protect her kids from Maximus. And one thing, I think it makes me very mad because in general in life people always ask the like, victim or the abused why they didn't do more and not the abuser why they did that. And so them saying she didn't do enough to protect her kids, she didn't do X, Y and Z, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so one line that I have right now into Python is she asked that question to somebody. She basically says, like, it's funny that you asked that because, like, why are you asking me? Like, I'm literally basically hanging from a dungeon trying to do all of these things and you're asking me why I didn't do more too. But at the same time, you also see Lira say the only reason why her abuse stopped is because she was willing to kill herself for it. And Maximus did not want to be able to have the world see that he had a wife that was mentally, quote, unquote, weak enough to do that. And so I think that we see that she instilled love in them in the way that she could given her own circumstances. But I also think you're in a political world and now that we know that she is Python. I think it kind of changes the way that we see her, because a lot of things she had to do outside of herself, it was not like when Mikael dies and she basically says, I don't get to feel that, like, he's dead. I don't get to feel anything anymore because it's not like it's no longer her life. And I think that goes to show how much she has forsaken herself in the pursuit of justice, in the pursuit of, like, a better future and making sure that her children stay safe. Because the first thing she thinks when, like, it comes into her chapter is, Grayson is safe. He's alive. He's safe. And I think we see in Python, which I'm really excited about her reasoning and also just the glaring questions that victims get asked because she is an incredibly strong person. And what it means to survive as a victim in an abusive relationship is completely different than what it means to just survive as a person.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I have a question for you, and you have to look me in the eyes when you answer this. Why Callum?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Why?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Listen, why?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

First question, is he, like, really dead?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Like, dead?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Like, because we know that people with. With the gunshots, and maybe it's a blank and maybe it's just a. Not actually real. And I know it really seems real with the. Out of his head and the blood and a blood.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Come on.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Just like, maybe he's not actually dead.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

My answer to this always is, is it's not fantasy. That's always my answer to this question. And how people want to take that or not is, like, fine. But I'm also. I'm also like, why would Brooker have a blank bullet? Like, Brooker was not there to just. I know he's just there to kill people. So, like, that's my answer. It's not fantasy. But I will say one. We're getting the bonus chapter with him. And do I. So. But the bonus chapter in the new release book, it's like, it's a Callum and Lira bonus chapter. And you see their night five years ago. So it's both very exciting and very sad because we all know all that night.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Look at how they're saying, like, I love you and I'll see you later tonight.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

And I'm just like, no. Well, because it's like, we know that. We know how that ended already. So we know that it didn't end great. But it's also like, we get to see them together and see, like, moment. And so I'm so excited for their like, yeah, God, I can't wait.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm gonna devour that.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

But why?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Why him?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Why?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I mean, I understand why, but really, tell me that.

[Maibo Eyes Advertiser]

One.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I think that you will learn to. There is a large reason why he was the one to go, and you'll learn more about that in Python because he has roles in this universe. And I think we could already see that, that there was something more to him than we really knew. He was having secret phone calls, like, he was this person, but how did he have this kind of access? And so there's more to him than meets the eye. But also he was the glue for everyone. Like, he was the person that truly kept everybody mentally stable. And in order for all of this to kind of fall apart, there needed to be that. That crumbling for all of them. And so it made the most sense for him to be the one to go. But also, like, for the plot in general, you're not going to. Well, you might see the last of his character, like, speaking, you're not going to see the last of him. Like, he lives and his legacy lives throughout, like, the entire book. And that'll never change, like, whether he is on, like, page. Who he is as a person changes everybody for good. And he is a lasting, like, thread and string of somebody that everyone, even though, like, Shay didn't really know him that well, but she trusted him almost immediately, even for her, it's a lasting thread where his love and his hope stays throughout Python. And so while we're losing him on screen, we are not losing the love that he brought to the book. Originally, I was going to kill Jameson. I decided not to do that because one. Emotional impact wise, Jameson just wasn't there yet. And Jameson has a lot more to his story that needs to, like, unfold. But the way that the characters and this kind of happens with a. All the deaths in my book, the characters kind of write them themselves, like, of where they're going and, like, their character arcs. Like, Cali, like, at the very beginning, I tell you that he's gonna die for love. Like, where it says, I don't know much about love, but I would do unspeakable things for less. So if I would, like, do that for less.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Right?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So we kind of. I kind of tell you that, like, he's not. He is willing to, like, die for this. And I think that it goes to show, like, cement his character and the trust that we have in him. And also, just, like, how much he loved Lira. Like, he died. He died, like, running to her.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'M very worried about her next.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Her character arc next book is. Who was I gonna ask?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

How is she?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Is she okay?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That's. That's a terrible question.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I wonder if everyone is okay at this point.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That's so valid. Okay, well, where did things leave off with the wealthy citizens in the other cities? Like, are we. Are we allowed to know about their.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Like, the other city states?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Like, the other cities?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes, because there's only, like, a few lines about how. Because that was part of Maximus and how he was saying that he was essentially wanting to combine and bring the other people over here. Are they just, like, waiting for him to.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Where's my invitation?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Execute his plans? Yeah. Are they just waiting with their bags packed or what's going on with them?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

We learn a little bit more about the city states in book two. We learn a little bit more about the plan and kind of what it all was and why it was like that and like, what. Why he wanted to bring them over. It is the factor of why he wanted to do X, Y and Z and shows, like, how cruel he is of the way that he wanted to execute that. But the story of the city states, because they don't care. They don't know why they're coming over here. They're not aware of how he's supposed to be doing it, but he's saying, I want to bring them over here. It's more so of Maximus's decision on how he wants to make room than what the city states are specifically doing. But you do learn in book two, more so of that plan and why. Why it was kind of like, but we're gonna bring them here. And I think as I grow into this world, and that's kind of why I'm like, yes, it's a. This, like, the duology itself will clear up all loose ends inside of, like, Newfound Haven. But there will, I think that in my head for how I build this universe, there will always be loose ends when it connects the other city states that will then be closed up when we get into that city state. Because that's kind of how it, like, brings, like, interconnects those worlds of, like, it's done. We have our closure for this. But there are gonna be little threads that I'm like, I could close up everything and have it perfectly rounded, that nobody cares about those city states anymore. Like, it's perfectly rounded and closed off. Or I can leave it open and want people wondering about those. Book two, I think it's. It might be more, like, apparent now just how Much it widens, but we go so wide, we get hundreds of years of history in, like, this telling of, like, how the other city states came to be. We learned their names, we learned, like, why we can't really get to them between, like, also, like, why aren't people just running over there? Like, why aren't we just. Like, there's, like, questions like that. So we learn a lot more about, one, the original plan, and two, why it's now changing and why that plan

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

is to bring them over to wrap this up. This has been so much fun and you have been so generous with sprinkling in teasers for Python. We're going to very pointedly ask you several questions now about Python or teasers for it. So can you give us a hint of where the book Python will open? Because how Daggermouth ended was on that platform there. Does it pick up right where Daggermouth leaves off? Are they imprisoned right now, too?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

So we pick up in Python, I think it is three months after. So there's about a three month time jump. I just guffawed is what happened before. We guffawed. But in order for us to pick up there, there's so much that happens in Python that there had to be a time jump. And we're kind of seeing. We quickly go through POVs that show the damage of those three months, because nobody, not a single soul is in a good place. Not a single person. Like, we don't know who's still alive. We don't know who is doing, like, whose POVs we're getting. Like, we really don't. Did they get hurt as they were? Like, where are we? Like, just where are we? So, yeah, that's our question. Yeah, no, exactly. Tell me. So it does start off like, three months after. And I think that. I don't know if you have read the uk, UK version that there's a little something special in the back of the UK version. I think it's a little snippet of Python. So.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Well, okay, so on a scale of one to dagger mouths, I can flip over a car with pure feminine rage alone. Where does Python sit?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

It's like 10 times worse. It is.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

No.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Oh, God. Python is.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I can't set my house on fire. H. I can't do it.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Not standing. The thing about Python is, like, Daggermouth was so building up the pinnacle, they had rage, they didn't know how to use it, so it was in their body. But Python, they know how to use it. Now that rage has ignited and now they're doing something about it and using it. And we have at this point now we have another woman that is introduced that is like the matriarch. Like, she is, like, she has so many more. She has like 30 plus years on all of them and what she's gone through. So that rage also, like, is added to that. But at this point, like, these women are not fucking around. Like, and we, we see their hurt and we see them struggle with that, but also, like, they're a lot more aware of their rage and that they want to do something with it rather than having to build up to wanting to do something with it.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So you just said that you won't answer this, but that's okay. How many POVs will we get in Python? And any new POVs that you can share, she's like, you said you won't

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

answer this, but I'm going to ask again. Okay?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Absolutely. Shut up, Lexi.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I can't answer.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Down, girl.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

In Python, we do get Jaeger's point of view. We have Brooker's point of view. So we have more POVs.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

You make me feel sympathetic towards Brooklyn.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I swear to God. I mean, smile, smile. I'm like, the man is fine. All I can say is the man is hot as shit. Like, he is. What's the problem? I'm just like, why hot if so bad? Like, yeah, right. I can't help it because if he looks like Grayson, he's got to be. Be hot. Like, I can't. But there's some other, like, surprise POVs in there. There are cameos. I think that when I tell people, if you want to reread, in a sense, not cameos, but I think there were a lot of people that were like, you didn't really notice in book one because they didn't have a role. And if you go back and catch on to it, I think that you will see that they have a larger role and, like, kind of positioned them.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

There's that one girl who's the rebel leader. Her name is escaping me. Her and Jameson have to end up together, right? Like. Or if he dies, I could see him die.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Don't you dare.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I could see everybody dying.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

The way that I get, like, no one's safe is like, by like, is he alive still? Is he? Is he okay?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

No.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I think there's going to be interesting turnouts. Pharaoh Kez. I love Kez. She is incredible. But will we see her? Will we not? Will we see Jameson?

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

Will we not?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Like, who knows?

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right, our final question for you is very FFG fashion and is not one question. It's a six. So if you could say one word to describe the following character's journey in Python, what would it be? Starting with Jameson.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

For his. I would say because it's sad and also. But also like rewarding and like healthy. So healthy, I think is a good one. Should I say?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay, we'll take that.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I will happily accept.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Healthy.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Happily. Okay.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right. Lira.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Rough.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yeah.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

My girl. My girl has a rough.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I'm so sad for her. Okay. Alara

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

proud.

[Maibo Eyes Advertiser]

All right.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

That makes me happy.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Brooker.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Hot. Brooker is intriguing. Should I say?

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Okay.

[Michael's Party Shop Announcer]

All right.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Grayson.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Grayson. Oh, baby boy. Sweet boy. I would say his.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

He finally.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

I like it.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Technically, he did get la.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Don't look at me like that. No, not that thing. I mean, I mean, I will say there is. There is some laying in Python. I will say that. So, yes, he does.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

That makes me very happy.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

But like in Python, his character growth for Python. This is like actually hard. Who knew? Rewarding.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

One word to describe Shadira's journey.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Incredible. I would say.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Makes me happy.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

She deserves the world.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, my gosh. She does. She does. So do you. Thank you so much.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Yes.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

So fun.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Oh, my gosh. Plug all the things. Where can people find you? What's coming up for you?

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

All of that.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

The 40 million things. Things you have.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

You can find me on Instagram or TikTok at HM Wolf and you can find me at www.hmwolf.com. and then I have tour coming up. So if you're interested in hanging out with me on tour, we got a 14 stop tour across the US you can find all those tickets on my website or on my Instagram in my bio. And then on the 28th of July, we have Daggermouth coming out in deluxe hardcover. So I'm really excited that in the U.S. so I think those are all the big things that are happening right now.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

And the audiobook just recently came out as well. Yes, it's one of our favorites. Please go get it. It's so good.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Thank you so much.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Thank you guys so much.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

All right, friends, that's a wrap for this fantastic interview episode.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Next Monday, August 3rd is our everything you need to know before Burn of the Everflame episode. And surprise, the following day, Tuesday, August 4th, will be our first final predictions for Burn of the Everflame. Two episodes in one week. Get ready because that's gonna be in the entirety of September.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Fun fact, it was originally supposed to be one episode but we went a little too crazy and so we had to divide it into two episodes because it would have been the longest episode of all time.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Remember that? And then our episode one of Burn is like 27,000 words. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Thank you as always to our Executive producer, sanity Manager, co host of the Fantasy Fanfellas Hayden.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

Check out our website with tons of book resources including book guides, trivia, quizzes, recommendations and so much more.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

What can you do on that website? Oh I'm so glad you asked. You can pre order my book Oath of the Chosen which comes out May 11, 2027. We just got our cover release. It's looking pretty sick.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

I'm pretty happy.

[Lexi (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

It's exciting. We are very active on social media, so please be sure to follow us on Instagram and slash our TikTok at fantasy fangirlspod. And if you're watching this on YouTube or want to watch on YouTube, pretty please hit that subscribe button to keep following along.

[Nicole (Fantasy Fangirls Podcast Co-host)]

While you're hitting buttons, don't forget to hit that five star button on whatever podcasting platform you are listening on. And of course, last but not least, share this episode with your fellow dagger mouth friends. If you all also had a really big crush on this book and the crush continues, this is a great episode to send to your fellow crushies.

[H.M. Wolf (Author)]

Thanks everybody. Bye bye Bye. Because you didn't just say how can I provide these investments? You'd be how do I holistically provide everything? How do I bring in the legal, the accounting, all this and do it at a price point no one else is doing it?

[Dani Pellegrino]

Learn more about how we approach wealth [e-mail] Integrate is your kid's birthday coming up?

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