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- [00:00]
A
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B
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- [01:26]
C
Hey there. How are Maria welcome to the Fantasy Fan Reads Podcast where we gather as friends to chat about our shared love of all things reading. I'm Jess, an avid lifelong reader and lover of cozy conversations. So go ahead and grab yourself a cup of something wonderful and come on in. Today is the very first episode of the Fantasy Fan Reads Podcast and I couldn't be more thrilled to be joined by Lexi from Fantasy Fangirls, who is ready to gush about all things cozy fantasy with me. How the heck are you doing today, Lexi?
- [01:56]
D
I am so good. I am so excited to be here for our very first episode. I'm so excited to sit down here with you, Jess, and just be part of this. Oh my gosh.
- [02:06]
C
If you listen to or follow the fantasy fangirls, you know that Lexi is a huge fan of cozy fantasy, which is something we have in common. So I'm super thrilled to have her with me today.
- [02:14]
D
Yes. And it's so funny because like, especially in our discord, there's a thing where it's like, oh, Lexi's cozy corner. And I'm like, I we're going to be doing something and I get to do it with Jess. You here on Fantasy Fan Reads and yay. Here's our cozy corner. It's finally here.
- [02:28]
C
I know. It's like fate brought this moment together.
- [02:31]
D
It really is. Yes.
- [02:33]
C
Just a quick heads up as we get started. This episode will be spoiler free for the books we are discussing, but feel free to grab something to take notes with because we have some awesome recommendations for you. Also, Fantasy Fan Reads is the newest podcast in the Fantasy Fangirls Media Network.
- [02:47]
D
Woo.
- [02:47]
C
And as a new show, your support means the world. Please give us a follow antasy Fan Reads on social media rate and review the podcast and come on, spread the word to your friends. That's what helps us the most. Plus, if you want to help support every show under the Fantasy Fangirls Media Network, you can join the Fantasy Fan Club for exclusive content, early access and ad free episodes, live Q&As, book club, private discord, community events, and so much more. Go on over to fantasyfangirls.com fanclub for more information about the Fantasy fanatics and deep divers tiers and benefits where you get all show access.
- [03:22]
D
So excited.
- [03:23]
C
I know, I know. And I also cannot believe this show is like part of those tiers. I'm like, oh my gosh. You could get early access to this too. Just saying.
- [03:30]
D
Yes. Fantasy Fan reads merch 20% off on it too.
- [03:34]
C
I know everybody's gonna need a mug to listen to this. I'm just saying. Oh, oh, you know what?
- [03:39]
D
I have my, my, my old morning tea here.
- [03:43]
C
I have my mug too, Lexi. I have fresh hot chocolate.
- [03:46]
D
Oh, that sounds lovely, Lexi.
- [03:48]
C
I have a couple questions for you that I'd love to ask everyone who joins me here in this little cozy corner of first and foremost, I'm curious. What are you reading right now? We know some of the things you're talking about on Fantasy Fangirls. But, But.
- [04:01]
D
Well, let's see. Here I am right now reading finishing up Kingdom of Ash at the time of this recording. Nicole and I are going to be finishing up our fantasy fan guides for that Throne of Glass series here in a few days. Besides that, because of course that is a wonderful book, but it also is a lot. I've been reading the Baby Dragon Cafe, which has just been absolutely lovely. And then of course, right after that, I'll be reading when the Moon Hatched. And I'm also excited to read the Book of Asriel. But back to the cozy part is the Baby Dragon Cafe.
- [04:33]
C
Yes, you had me at Baby like any. Like you could have said, like the Baby Bunny Bookshop. And I Would have signed me up.
- [04:41]
D
That sounds lovely too.
- [04:42]
C
I know, honestly, get on that.
- [04:44]
D
What are you reading right now?
- [04:46]
C
I am reading at the again at the time of this recording, I'm reading the Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson, which is the first book in Stormlight Archive and I have coined the term. I am fascifused, fascinated and confused at the same time. I don't think Brandon Sanderson bought a vowel in that book. It's just all consonants. I mean,
- [05:06]
D
sounds like you could use a cozy fantasy too to break it up a little bit.
- [05:10]
C
I honestly could. I really could. So I'm excited to hear some of the other things that you've enjoyed as we dig in today.
- [05:15]
D
Yes, yes, definitely.
- [05:17]
C
All right. You mentioned you have tea in your mug. Is that your go to warm beverage?
- [05:22]
D
Sometimes it's more of my afternoon hot beverage in the mornings. I love my coffee and besides that, sparkling water. I'm a big sparkling water person too.
- [05:32]
C
Oh, I would have never considered sparkling water in the like this is like my cozy comfort drink.
- [05:38]
D
It is. It's cause I'm not a big water drinker person. I know I should be, but that's my way of cheating to make myself feel good and joyful about it and all of that. But besides that, oh my gosh, I love tea. I also fun fact, I drink my coffee black. I don't like it very sweet or okay. Sugar or milk and tea or anything. Yeah.
- [05:58]
C
Oh my God. Well, we can't share coffee. And that's gonna be okay. That's gonna be okay because I want mine to taste like a candy bar.
- [06:07]
D
Well, what are you drinking right now?
- [06:09]
C
I'm drinking hot chocolate right now. Which I guess technically chocolate has caffeine. But like I'm not gonna have coffee Its like 5 o' clock probably good.
- [06:18]
D
Yes. But I do love all like 2pm yeah.
- [06:21]
C
Yeah. All morning long though. I drink a lot of coffee. It's definitely my go to. You mentioned that some of your beverages bring you joy, but I'm curious, what about reading brings you joy? Because that's what I want to get at the core of here today. The joy of cozy fantasy in general. But what brings you joy with reading?
- [06:38]
D
There's going to be several parts to this year. So first of all, I've always just loved being able to fall into another world especially that's why fantasy, see is really near and dear to me is I love how people are so creative and they create these amazing worlds that I get to experience. And that is just. That brings me so Much joy that, like, again, that I get to fall into these worlds. And it's so creative and just magic. And I just get to, like, live out. I see these fantasies, but just it's magical. Like, that's a word. I just kind of coming back to here. And also the characters, like, I absolutely love a relatable character. And especially when their journeys, I feel similarly or I'm going through a similar figuring out who I am sort of thing. And I really just have always loved that. And I think overall, though, rather than just like, what's on the page that brings me joy is the way that we as readers are experiencing reading together more so lately. I think that social media in particular, of course, has been huge with that. But reading has always been such an independent thing that we do. And yet it's these stories that connect us and this shared, not just interest, but these shared journeys that we are all going on together and different interpretations. And it's just so much fun to experience this with such a wonderful community who has these same passions. And that really and truly has been the best part of reading. That I wasn't expecting when I really got back into it, was to be able to surround myself with so many people. I used to feel very alone when I was younger about how much I loved fantasy and all of that. It wasn't a cool thing, and now it is the cool thing. It is so much fun. And just all of us seeing the collective joy is really meaningful.
- [08:35]
C
That is so true. I've even felt that way as an adult, Lexi. Like, I went through a small phase, like, I'd say maybe in like, my 20s, where I was reading fantasy novels and like, you're work or somewhere, and people are like, what are you reading? And you're like, like, yeah, do I really want to try to explain the plot of that book to this person who is gonna be like, well, I read a memoir yesterday, you know.
- [08:54]
D
Exactly. Yes. Right.
- [08:57]
C
And I realize I shouldn't have been embarrassed, period. Like, love what you love and own it proudly. But you're right, having a community of people who gets it when you say, like, the unicorn was really cool is so fun.
- [09:09]
D
Exactly. And connection is just so important now. I feel like more than ever, especially in this. And for us to be all able to come together like that, I think is really beautiful.
- [09:19]
C
It really is. And I feel like cozy fantasy really lends itself to that. Right. Because not only do you get those elements of fantasy, but you get that warm hug at the same time that so many of us are Craving, like, in the world in which we now live. Speaking of cozy fantasy, Lexi, can you think back, like, what book or author got you into that specific fantasy sub genre?
- [09:40]
D
Yes. So it was actually, I'll say fairly recently about what, eight months ago now or so. I read the Spell Shop by Sarah Beth Durst. And so that was my first real cozy fantasy. And I didn't even realize that I needed that book until I read it, because I'm reading a lot of, as many of us do, very high stakes, action packed, emotionally wrecking journeys that we love so much. And as much as I appreciate those books, I was recognizing just like, I felt my mood felt unregulated and like, I was just like in this very constant state of anxiety and just kind of like. And I'm already like that, but I was extra like that.
- [10:23]
C
I laugh because I relate so hard.
- [10:28]
D
And I was like, I think that something like, because I'm reading and it's only making it go kind of up even more. So I was like, I need something to bring me down a little bit. And I. I just picked up this book that my friend Lauren of Book Huddle had mentioned and I absolutely fell in love with it. It was so calming and it was still absolutely keeping my interest and all of that. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is what my. What my heart needed. Like this. I'm not overstimulating. I keep coming back to this word regulating my mood, my emotions. And that is just when I fell down the cozy fantasy rabbit hole.
- [11:05]
C
Yeah. I think as readers, we so often are almost like empathic with our characters and when really care about are in truly perilous situations, even though we know they are just words on a page, you can't help but like, clench.
- [11:18]
D
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And instead of like, with cozy fantasy, it's kind of like instead of sucking in a breath as you open up the page where it's like, okay, let's prepare myself. What's next? And instead it's like a. Okay, what's next? You know, it's very different. Yeah.
- [11:37]
C
And I really think it gives those authors a chance to make things character focused in a different way because we're getting to know their character through totally different stakes or situations compared to how they respond to like, traditional high stress, maybe.
- [11:53]
D
Exactly, exactly. Yes. That's more inner conflict versus exterior conflict, right? Yes.
- [12:00]
C
That's awesome. I'm a huge fan of Sarah Beth Durst as well. And the whole spell shop world that she's creating is just so perfect, so fun.
- [12:09]
D
Enchanted Greenhouse is another one that I love. I'm so excited for the third book to be coming out here soon, too. Sangu Mandana is another one of my absolute favorite cozy fantasy authors. I think she balances a beautiful message with a relatable FMC so well. She just weaves in this whimsy in the modern world and found family and the romance too. Like, I think she sticks the landing every book that I've read of hers too. And I love those.
- [12:39]
C
Yeah, now that I heard you say that about, like, how it's in the modern world, but it's still fantasy and it's relatable. I'm thinking about one of the characters in her book that was a skeleton chicken. You know exactly who I'm talking about. And if you haven't read this book, I'm not spoiling it, I promise. But go read it. I swear to you, I believed that we could all have skeleton chickens because the rest of the book felt like it could have been down the street from me.
- [13:01]
D
Exactly. It's like peering over my neighbors, like, do they have a zombie chicken here?
- [13:06]
C
Maybe? You know, who knows? I'm not here to judge. I find myself obsessed with the cozy fantasy that has leaned into baking. Like, my first cozy fantasy book was Legends and Lattes by Travis Baldry, in which the characters own a cafe and there is a character that bakes in the cafe. And I was like, I am in. I want this cafe to succeed. It was just so good. And then I recently read A Fellowship of Bakers and Magic by Jay Penner, which is if you love Great British Bake off, but you want the people to be fantastical at the same time, that is the book for you.
- [13:42]
D
I will have to read that one because I am such a huge fan of the Great British Baking Show. Every. It's always airs on Fridays. Right. And Nicole and I have our big recordings every Friday. And it's like my treat is after these big recordings, I get to shut all of the work things off and I get to enjoy my big show.
- [14:01]
C
So good. It's so good. But it's. Again, it's that same thing you were saying about the different stakes. Right. We get to experience something, but it's not war. It's just whose cake was best.
- [14:12]
D
Exactly. It's so just delightful. That's the word that comes to mind. Yeah.
- [14:17]
C
I was thinking a little bit more about what you said about how your body felt reading fantasy compared to cozy fantasy. What do you think is maybe still the same or what other things are different between the two, in your opinion? Ooh.
- [14:32]
D
So I think, like, for instance, when I think about a really good cozy fantasy book, it's one that, like, some people might look at cozy fantasy and be like, that's just a little bit boring. And it's like, to me, that's not. It's like the challenges of everyday people. It's not the person who is going to be going and saving the world, but it is somebody who could be your neighbor kind of thing and going through big things that all of us experience in our lives. And so I find that there's a certain sense of relatability with cozy fantasies. And I go back to like, it's not overwhelming or, you know, you're having to keep five different things straight in your head about who's what, who's who, and who's where, and all the geography and all, you know, the usual kind of stuff that goes with fantasy that I love. And it's a nice way to, I'll call it, switch off my brain again, like going back to like the bake show. It's like I love falling into it and just being taken on this journey.
- [15:30]
C
It's almost to me, like cozy fantasy is a little bit more episodic. Like, if I'm comparing it to tv, I can watch a sitcom and still care for those characters and care for those problems. But it's a little bit more bite sized. It's like that half an hour and I can walk and I could be okay, right? Versus watching something, some grand three hour dramatic movie that I still cared for those characters. But man, it was. I was committed, you know, like, in a different way.
- [15:56]
D
I need like a month or so to prepare myself to watch said big movie or big TV show or whatever that might be. Yes, exactly. And I do love also how cozy fantasies are typically standalones or maybe interconnected where it is more like, you're saying bite size there and shorter. And it's really great palette cleansers for us.
- [16:19]
C
One of my favorite elements of cozy fantasy that I think transcends all fantasy is we love a sidekick, right? And in cozy fantasy, I feel like we always get these unique, cute little sidekicks. So, Lexi, I'm wondering, if you were a character in a cozy fantasy book, what kind of fun little sidekick would you want? Like, Sky's the limit.
- [16:39]
D
Oh, my goodness. I have always loved, like the messenger birds. I love so much about. Maybe that's just, you know, from growing up with Hedwig and whatnot. But I absolutely love when the companion is Both fantastical a little bit, but still also very realistic and has a bigger purpose as well, too. I don't want to say usefulness, because that sounds so transactional and it's not like that. But that's not what I mean at all. But it's like that sense of being able to help. That's that sense of them feeling like they can help not just in a story, but in that character's life too. And so I would love to have, like, a messenger bird if we're thinking about characters that particularly are in the stories that we've read. I mean, I keep going back to the spider plant. Like, Cass is so funny. And I just love, too, that Sarah has said before that she had to make him a spider plant because it was more just the practicality of him being able to use them as limbs. I just got such a kick out of that.
- [17:42]
C
Oh, my gosh, that is so funny. I love, like, I love the cozy sidekicks we end up seeing. I'm thinking of them right now that are always, like, a little grouchy to be there. Like, they kind of happened into the main character's life, and I kind of want one of those. Like, the one that, like, is like, yeah, I'll do it, Jess. I'm with you. But, like, I'm picturing, like, a angry garden gnome I accidentally dug up outside my cottage, and they're just, like, stuck with me now. But they would ride or die for me.
- [18:08]
D
I love that so much. Yes. I also think about kind of going off that bit of a grumpy. But it's like, yeah, they're stuck with them. And they're also a little bit of a wild card. Like in the Magical Innkeeping book by Psycho Mandana, there is a fox who was turned into a fox, and it stuck as a fox. And she is the biggest wild card in that book. And I absolutely love it. Love it.
- [18:31]
C
So good.
- [18:32]
D
Or the zombie chicken, you know?
- [18:35]
C
I know. And I feel like so many of these cozy fantasy authors have done a great job at creating fun sidekicks that make never speak either, but they speak volumes through their actions and the things that they're doing. And, like, you know them too. It's like, I don't know. It's the magic sauce of the cozy fantasy, I'm telling you.
- [18:54]
D
Definitely, definitely gotta have the good animal companion or any kind of companion in that.
- [18:59]
C
I know. I'm loving the authors who are stretching the boundaries of that too. Like, growing up in, like, the Disney Renaissance, every sidekick was an animal sidekick.
- [19:08]
D
Exactly.
- [19:08]
C
You know, but having ones that are a pack of bones or some plants, it's just like so imaginative.
- [19:15]
D
Yes. And it goes right back to that element of the magic and whimsy of these books. And it's like, it's not just cozy, but it's creating just like little elements of magic in like the day to day life. And part of that is some of these companions. And it's just so normal. And I love it. I love it.
- [19:34]
C
I love it too. I also got into cozy fantasy maybe later than other people who'd known the genre existed. And I do think that something that's happening in the book community is a rise in popularity for cozy fantasy or cozy gaming even. Like thinking back to how just a few years ago Animal Crossing exploded. Right. Or things like Stardew Valley. And I'm wondering your perspective on why do you think we're seeing that rise like cozy fantasy gaining popularity among people who had read typical fantasy previously?
- [20:05]
D
I mean, life is hard, Jess.
- [20:07]
C
I don't know about you, there it is.
- [20:08]
D
But life is hard. We're both parents and yeah, having to figure out what the heck's for dinner every night and it's almost tax season, you know, just like all they got, schedule another doctor's appointment. All of just like, I'll say, like the normal hard life things, the normal adulting things. And I think that our generation in particular as millennials, like, we are tired. We are so tired. So tired of a lot of things. Which also brings me to just. The world is scary right now and there's a lot of feelings of unknown and helplessness and spiraling. And I know that I felt that a lot. And these books are a nice little anchor. And I say escapism too, but like, they're just a little anchor to refuel, to calm myself down, to be able to have that regulation. And then to be able to once when I set it down again, it's like, okay, then I feel like I can go out and tackle the world again, you know, and it's this little break in the craziness and the chaos of everyday life and the bigger problems. And it's so wonderful to be able to do that and then afterward to feel energized and fueled up a little bit and emotionally in a good place to then be able to go, okay, now I can go do the hard things again. So what do you think?
- [21:29]
C
Yeah, I feel that so deeply. And I think something that goes with sometimes the state of your own life or the state of the world and that spiraling is it's really easy to forget the good in the world, especially when you're not seeing it in the people around you or the events around you. And I know these are fictional characters, but so many cozy fantasy books remind me that there are helpers and there are good people and that you can have faith that things will work out. You might have to put the work in, but that there are good people out there. Because we often see in these books a character maybe with some sort of internal struggle or outside struggle and a found family or people who band together with them or those small acts of kindness that make a huge difference for the main character that we're following along the way. And it always reminds me like those things happen in my life and in the real world also, even if that's not right now, there's still a bigger picture. I don't know. That reminder is wild to me because you're reading about elves and orcs and all those sorts of things, but it feels like a reminder of humanity.
- [22:29]
D
That is such a good point. Especially like, about whether they're neighbors or like you're saying, just like a community of people who are helping one another and who care about one another. And we do need that good news and that good intake as well. Yes. To fill ourselves up and to know that it is possible.
- [22:48]
C
That actually leads me right into kind of something that goes along with this, which is in fantasy, we're so used to facing a big baddie. We're always looking for the villain and the truly. Like this. Oh, this evil, evil person. In the books and in cozy fantasy, we don't often get this truly evil character, but we do see our characters still struggle. What do you think kind of connected to what we were just talking about? What are the big baddies we see characters face in Cozy Family?
- [23:15]
D
When I think about internal personal limitations are always a huge one where the main character doesn't think that they are able to achieve something, or they're trying to achieve something and it might not be working out and they end up needing more help that they were afraid to ask for or something like that. Very. Again, going back to these very real internal problems that we can relate to and connect with there that they're having to go through. And there's external situations that bring out where they have to figure that out for themselves in order to succeed for themselves and for their community. And I also think too about not just their own personal limitations, but also figuring out what they themselves and their community are capable of. I think about legends and lattes, you know, and how wanting to make a coffee shop and it's such a simple, low stakes goal for a book, you know, just all things considered.
- [24:11]
C
Yeah.
- [24:11]
D
And the little obstacles that come through and the people that come together to make it happen. It's so rewarding to. To read and to feel that and to cheer them on. And when I think back about, like, the Big Bad, for instance, it can be, you know, limitations set by oneself as well as from others, as well as where it's like, no, like. Or being put into a box. I love when that's almost like the villain, where it's like something is expected of someone and they're being put into a box and they're like, no, like. And it's them realizing that's not where they belong and they need to be themselves in order to shine the brightest. Right. And I love those stories so much.
- [24:55]
C
I do too. I think totally connected with what you're saying. I see, like, in those limitations, almost a lot of characters who are afraid they won't be excited, accepted, like they're fighting. They're afraid of prejudice or they're afraid that other people are going to see them negatively. That happens in A Fellowship of Bakers and Magic because we see our main character is a different race than some of the other characters in the book and they think that limits them. Or in the Enchanted Greenhouse by Sarah Beth Durst, we see a character who just thinks that her quirks cannot be accepted. Like, she's not worthy of being loved because of that. And the journey that she goes through is the big baddie, Right. Like in herself. And that hits to the core, like, as a person who's dealt with that in my own life, like, what a beautiful story to explore something like that in and be reminded that you can pass those things and you can, like, defeat the thing and it's just within yourself.
- [25:49]
D
I think too, about the House on the Cerulean Sea. That is one of my absolute favorite books of all time. And that one, the Big Bad, is kind of like society because of the whole concept of not feeling accepted or not just feeling accepted, not being accepted, and having to work through that, not necessarily with what that means for society, but what that means for yourself and for your small community. And it's a very powerful message that hits hard, but it's packaged in a warm hug where it does feel like pretty high stakes, especially with the message that it is. And then at the same time, you're able to approach it in a, again, like the calmer State of mind.
- [26:34]
C
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I want someone to study this. If you're listening to this and you're a psychologist, I want to know what's happening in our brains where we still care so much, but we're like, it's good. It's okay. It's gonna be okay.
- [26:47]
D
They're probably like, yeah, that's what, like, general normal life is supposed to be like.
- [26:51]
C
It's like, they're like, you should actually study. Why you don't feel that way. Okay. Just kidding. Psychologists don't diagnose. Lexi and I, we'll get it together. Oh, my gosh. Well, speaking of ourselves, if you are a character in a cozy fantasy novel, you know, not only do you get a sidekick, but you get a hobby. Okay. You get your thing. Okay. What is your cozy fantasy character's thing or hobby?
- [27:18]
D
Okay. I thought this before I read the Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches, and that was one of the reasons I loved this book so much. Potion making. I love potion making. And it's a little ironic because I do not have any special skill sets with cooking. Like, I definitely need a recipe. Or my husband is like, oh, is this. Did you come up with this on your own? You tried? Yeah. And I barely. I probably shouldn't be saying this to the teacher, but I barely passed science class in school. Like, I don't really know how I got out of my chemistry class. Like, I am terrible at science and math, and so I don't. Those seem like important skills that would transfer over to potion making. So I can't say I would be good at potion making, but I tell you, I would have a lot of fun with it. And I'd probably sing my eyebrows off plenty, but it would be fun. I just love the idea of magically making things like that.
- [28:11]
C
It is so funny that you picked something that sounds fun, but you don't have the real life skill to back it up, because that's exactly where I'm at. I want my cozy hobby to be something artistic, like drawing or painting that somehow makes magic. Like, I drew it to exist. But my art skills beyond, like, cartoon stick figures are. They're low. The bar is low for that.
- [28:36]
D
Cartoon stick figures. And they would be wonderful out in society.
- [28:40]
C
Oh, what if my stick figures came to life and were, like, bopping around whatever cozy town I lived in with the gnome falling? That'd be great.
- [28:48]
D
Have you ever watched that one spongebob episode, Doodlebob?
- [28:53]
C
I sure have.
- [28:54]
D
That's all I can think about.
- [28:56]
C
Well, doodlebob is my skill set, so that tracks. That's accurate.
- [29:00]
D
An evil Jess doodlebob.
- [29:04]
C
Why am I sending evil into the world? Lexi, this is cozy. It's a well meaning doodle Jess.
- [29:10]
D
Very true. Very true. Who would go and unload the dishwasher and all those other things would know what's for dinner?
- [29:17]
C
Girl, that is my cozy dream right there. That's my fantasy. The high stakes are making it from 8am to 8pm with Doodle Jess. She's got it.
- [29:26]
D
The truth of that. Yes. Oh, no. We're out of flour for the baking. That doodle Jess has to do. What will we do?
- [29:34]
C
What will we do? Crisis. We call our neighbor. It's beautiful. They come over. It's. It's problem solved.
- [29:41]
D
Yes. I love it. I love the power of friendship.
- [29:44]
C
It was. Oh, my goodness.
- [29:47]
D
Well, and then I think about, like, some of these other. Some of the books that we've read. Like, for instance, in Quicksilver, there's this character named Wendy in this adorable little village, and she makes biscuits. And I have a whole cozy fantasy like, novella for her. I even pitched it to Cali Hart. It's all good. She's on board. I think that she would actually ever do a cozy fantasy. But so much fun just imagining this world in my head.
- [30:12]
C
That is such a great one. Like, I think there's kind of that character in every traditional fantasy book that is there and they're thriving, but they might do better. Like at the coffee shop down the
- [30:24]
D
road, you know that character, it's like, why are they in this war zone area? Let's put them somewhere else, you know?
- [30:31]
C
Right. Like, I think of Taran from Kindred's Curse saga. I want to pull him right on out of there, mainly because I'm fearful for him. And if you've read that trilogy, you might feel that in your soul too. But I just want to pluck him on out and, like, send him to go get mimosas with someone, like, have brunch or something.
- [30:49]
D
Oh, bottomless mimosa brunch.
- [30:52]
C
Just right.
- [30:53]
D
Yes, exactly.
- [30:54]
C
That screams cozy fantasy right there. Done. As someone who's read cozy fantasy and, like, loves it in your heart because of the way it makes you feel, what do you think is, like a big lesson you've learned from some of those books or something that you've taken away? Even if you never read another cozy fantasy novel again.
- [31:13]
D
Oh, my goodness. So I'm going back to the idea of our own limitations and what we feel is possible. And Being able to then achieve that. And I think that is definitely something big for myself. I go back to the Magical Innkeeping book and that one really has a very powerful message in it about what we are capable of not just like fantastically, but just within our own hearts and within ourselves. And I go back to what you were saying there about accepting oneself. And the more I think about it, that is really and truly at the heart of so many of these fantasy books, no matter what they're about. Like I think about legends and lattes and the main character used to be this warrior and now just wants to have a coffee shop and is accepting that is who they are and that they want to live out that dream. I even think about. I don't necessarily consider assistant to the villain series like Cozy Cozy Fantasy, but has that light hearted playfulness that I would still kind of consider it a little bit more of like palate cleanser. But that's also the same thing with that accepting of that main character is so bubbly and fun and has this spunky personality that everybody around her learns how to accept and really just love and enjoy. And I just love that idea of at the heart of everything. It really is all about acceptance and embracing quirkiness and understanding our own truths and not letting the others around us who might think differently dictate that because it's our lives. And I think that's really powerful.
- [33:01]
C
Man. Lexi, I feel like we had like telepathy today because not only did you steal so much of what I was gonna say, but like your answer leads into like the one extra thing I would add on is like a lesson that I have learned and it's what you just were sharing about people's perspectives. And I think that in life sometimes we try to bottle down our problems because they don't feel big and we're like other people are dealing with bigger things. The world has bigger problems and that is true. But it can be simultaneously true that what's happening to you feels big to you. And I think Cozy Fantasy gives us a place to realize that these characters, like you said earlier, are not trying to save the world, but what they're doing matters to them. And you deserve to solve your own problems also. Right? You deserve to fill your own cup among what's happening around you.
- [33:49]
D
Yes, you just nailed it. And not just that it matters to us, but also that it matters to our community too. And I think a lot of these books found Family is such a centerpiece. And it's not just about ourselves accepting us but it's also about reaching out for help and really being open and willing to have those connections with other people as well. Even if it does feel scary, even if it is a little bit outside of our comfort zone at the beginning, that at the end of the day, the connection propels all of our lives forward.
- [34:26]
C
You know, that is like, so beautiful because of what you were saying earlier about how the connection of reading is like, what feeds your soul. And then in these books, it's all about connection.
- [34:36]
D
Like, girl, I didn't even plan that.
- [34:39]
C
Well, I'm gonna tell people you did because that was just. It is. We want, as humans, we crave to be seen. We crave each other. Even when we're feeling introverted, you still want people to know you and know you exist. And it's so important.
- [34:55]
D
It really is. And I think about too, going back to, like, why this genre is so meaningful for me and my life right now and why it's. I think gaining in popularity is. So many of us are kind of dealing with some of our own internal conflicts, you know, and when we read these books again, it's not like these crazy high stakes and of course we connect to those very empowering FMCs that we all know and love. And there is such a, like, quiet strength in the ones who are a little bit more, I'm going to say everyday people and who are having to solve everyday problems. And it does still matter. And that's a good lesson for us to know as well.
- [35:38]
C
It's the quiet good. You can be quiet good. It's still.
- [35:43]
D
And you still have a bright, like, shining spark, you know, and you don't
- [35:47]
C
know what else you sparked. We often see that in these books. I'm thinking of a particular thing in a Fellowship of Bakers and Magic. You need to go read it. So I'm not going to tell you. But like, you see these moments, moments where one character's actions impact another character to maybe change course. And that is good stuff.
- [36:06]
D
I love it. I love all of it. I wanted to ask you. So I know this isn't tech, so this isn't like technically cozy fantasy, but I have. I know. I just recently got this one here from Brandon Sanderson called the Tress of Emerald Tea. Correctly.
- [36:24]
C
Yeah. Tress of the Emerald Sea. Yeah, you got it.
- [36:27]
D
Yes. And I thought, like, is this a good kind of cozy fantasy adjacent?
- [36:32]
C
I think it is. I have not read it yet. I know it's part of the greater Brandon Sanderson cosmere, but it is a standalone, so you can just kind of read it. But I have heard, because I am a coffee and mug aficionado, that I've been told to read it because apparently the main character values mug bugs, and apparently I would. So see.
- [36:53]
D
Well, then.
- [36:54]
C
Well, I mean, who doesn't?
- [36:55]
D
I'll read it and report back to you.
- [36:57]
C
I think you should. It's on my list. But there's kind of. When you look up the reading order for these massive series, as you know, with Throne of Glass, somebody always has something to say. And with the Cosmere, lots of somebodies have lots of something to say about when you should read them. But I think you could just read it. I mean, just do it.
- [37:15]
D
Just. I think I'll just do it. Yeah. I don't have time to read the Stormlight Archives before I read this book.
- [37:23]
C
Just read it.
- [37:23]
D
That defeats the purpose of the cozy fantasy, huh?
- [37:27]
C
It does. You shouldn't feel the weight upon your shoulders. Just think about the mugs.
- [37:31]
D
Exactly. I also think about, like, with cozy fantasy, the particular time that I am really enjoying it is, like, right before bed. Because I'm realizing the older I get, the harder it is to turn my brain off when I go to sleep. And I love a good book before bedtime, whether that's like listening to my audiobook and doing some coloring or just sitting there with my actual book. But I think that cozy fantasy is the perfect transfer from whether it's, you know, like, I'll be working in the evenings or my husband and I will be cleaning up after the craziness with the kiddos, or just putting the kiddos down for down to bed. And it's like, I need to take a deep breath in and out. And I think that is what these books can do so well is it kind of like, eases us into bedtime in a way that other books aren't quite able to.
- [38:19]
C
Well, it's hard to walk away from the way some other traditional fantasy chapters end in, like, a cliffhanger. And you're like, well, that's. I'm Now I've committed to the next chapter, you know, and cozy fantasy is a little bit easier to say, they'll be okay. Tomorrow, we will check on them.
- [38:36]
D
It's like, I trust that they will be okay until tomorrow with the other book. I don't always trust that. I don't know if they're gonna be okay. And I have to go right now to check on them.
- [38:45]
C
Agreed. Because they are gonna make poor decisions if I'm not there with them.
- [38:48]
D
Exactly. They'll probably still make poor decisions, but at least I'll be there to tell them, I told you so.
- [38:53]
C
I told you so. Lexi, I gotta admit, earlier, I thought you were gonna say, not that it was harder to shut your brain off, but it was harder to fall asleep and stay asleep, because that's, like, what I'm experiencing.
- [39:03]
D
Well, that too.
- [39:07]
C
I was like, wake ups. I get you. Oh, my gosh, Lexi, before we close up the cozy fantasy part of this conversation, because I do have one more sneaky question for you. I'm wondering for everybody out there listening, what is a cozy fantasy book that you think every fantasy reader should go pick up right now, if they haven't already?
- [39:26]
D
The Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches. I know I've been repeating that a little bit, but I love that book so much that in the House on the Cerulean Sea are two of my all time favorite books. And I don't say that lightly.
- [39:39]
C
Those are awesome recommendations. I can like, co stamp those with you. They're so good.
- [39:44]
D
What about you?
- [39:45]
C
Oh, I would toss in a third one. I feel like. I know I said Legends and Lattes was my kind of first one, but the one that told me I'm never exiting this genre was the Spell Shop by Sarah Beth Durst. There is something in that book that I cannot explain and you have to read it yourself. Like, there's no words to quantify what that book does to your entire self. So I would highly recommend it.
- [40:09]
D
It is so magical and in fact, so the Spell Shop. I was so excited when we finally had a book club that had a cozy theme to it. It was like a low stakes theme. And I actually, I think the exact one was no spice theme, but everybody equated that to Lexi's cozy fantasies. I was very much campaigning for the Spell shop and it won. Some people were like, oh, like I've this kind of book before. And every single person who at least I spoke to was like, my heart did not know I needed to read this as badly as I did.
- [40:39]
C
Yes.
- [40:40]
D
And that's been very much the reaction that I've heard when people are getting into cozy fantasy where it's like, I don't really know what to expect of this. And then they read it and it's like, oh, I did need a hug. Like that. I think it's, at the end of the day, the definition of a cozy fantasy, whatever else is in the ingredients is it feels like a warm hug for the reader. And I think we all could use a few extra warm hugs. Right now. Right. And going back to that connection too, and feeling like that. A warm hug from ourselves, a warm hug from our community, a warm hug from the author telling us that it's going to be okay. And I love that so much. And I do think that House in the Cerulean Sea has that warm hug, but it also has a little bit of that like, yeah. Feeling too.
- [41:27]
C
You do that for sure. During that.
- [41:29]
D
Yes. It's like, yeah, but it's like a. It's with so much happiness right. At the same time. It's very strange to explain. It's not like dystopia, I promise, where it's like, yeah. Kind of thing. Anyway.
- [41:42]
C
Lexi, have you read the sequel to the House in the Cerulean Sea?
- [41:45]
D
I have Somewhere beyond the Sea and what I loved about that was it was in the other main character's pov. I loved it. I loved the book. I didn't love it as much as I loved the first one because I did feel very complete after the first book, but I loved the sequel. And I haven't read TJ Klune's other books, but I really want to. I've heard amazing things. I think he does a really great job of weaving a beautiful message into these cozy fantasies. Because that is something I have noticed is there's kind of two types of cozy fantasies. One is a little bit more low stakes. Just what it's supposed to be. Very coasting and lovely in that and has all those messages. And then there are the other ones that I think of the House and Cerulean Sea, Irregular Witches, Magical Inn keeping. That has a very powerful message in there as well. For ourselves, for society. That is woven in with the warm hug and yeah, and I. Those ones in particular are going to be my all time favorites.
- [42:46]
C
If you want to dive into another one of his books, I highly recommend under the Whispering Door. I will say like content warning or trigger warning that it does deal with kind of grief and death and dying as an overarching plot point. So just so you know, going into it, but that book is another one that hit me in a way that I didn't know I needed.
- [43:08]
D
I very well use that. Yes, I actually have the audio to it. I just haven't listened to it yet. So it's on my tbr. That one in particular, while we're just talking about books, I got one that's about a cat shelter. A mystical cat shelter.
- [43:22]
C
Mystical cat shelter. Tell me more.
- [43:25]
D
The book is called Agnes Albert's. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Mystical Cat shelter. And it's by Heather Fawcett, who's also the author of Emily Wilde's Encyclopedia of Fairies. I haven't read that one either, but I'm. I really want to. Yeah, so Heather is definitely on my cozy fantasy author TBR list.
- [43:42]
C
Oh, my gosh. We have that same TBR list. Because I've hear about the Encyclopedia of Fairies so many times, and I don't know why. I just gotta get to it.
- [43:49]
D
Me, too. Oh, I love them so much.
- [43:52]
C
Lexi, before we go, I must admit, especially for those of you who might be hearing me talk for the first time today, I love a little bit of chaos. And I specifically love questions that incite a little bit of chaos. So I would love to ask you one that has absolutely nothing to do with books, and I want to know what you think. We gotta hash this out. Okay, Now. Now, here's the question. Is a hot dog a sandwich? Lexi, help us settle the debate.
- [44:16]
D
No. Oh. Oh, really? No.
- [44:18]
C
Are you.
- [44:18]
D
Oh, gosh.
- [44:20]
C
I mean, you just looked at me like my answer is automatically right, which it is. But I defer to you to defend your no. Tell me.
- [44:28]
D
Well, yes, technically, there are one side of bread and another side of bread with some meat in the middle. Sorry, not the.
- [44:37]
C
I'm waiting for this to not sound
- [44:39]
D
like a sandwich, but first of all, the best part about the hot dog is that the bread is connected. So I guess other parts of it. Okay, scratch that new argument here.
- [44:49]
C
Don't scratch it. She's defending my argument.
- [44:53]
D
No. Okay, so there's no. I'm trying. It's just not. It's just not.
- [44:59]
C
I don't even know how to have a rebuttal to. Just not. Just shut the door. Jesse.
- [45:05]
D
It's not. No. I think about certain things that. I mean, what would you call a taco? I guess that's not. That's bread, though. Never mind. I'm just not. I'm just literally dicking myself a hole here, aren't you?
- [45:16]
C
You are. Did I plan that? Maybe. I think that a sandwich is simply carb. Carb, not carb. So, yes, bread, bread, meat, or even if it's connected, the bot. I think a taco is sandwich adjacent because it's some form of carbohydrate holding the filling I want to eat, but it's not closed the whole way.
- [45:38]
D
Okay, so let's consider this like the dragon category here, where a wyvern is a dragon, but a dragon is not automatically a wyvern. Right?
- [45:50]
C
Right.
- [45:50]
D
So Technically, am I saying now that. No, I don't want to say that a hot dog is a sandwich. I just will not say that.
- [45:58]
C
I was waiting for you to realize that you were, in fact, defending me again, and you were like, no, it's just hot dogs are just the wyverns of dragons. Sure.
- [46:07]
D
I mean, like, no, that's the technicality. But in my brain, wyverns and dragons are very different. And so therefore, hot dogs and sandwiches are very different. That is my argument, I suppose.
- [46:19]
C
All right, well, henceforth, I give you no more permission to eat any sandwich with connected bread because you have decided that that catapults it out of the sandw sandwich category. No hoagies.
- [46:30]
D
Or some say I actually have hoagies that we're waiting to bake from in the freezer right now. And I have these meatballs, and I was so excited to make a meatball sandwich, and I was, like, talking about. It's like, oh, shoot. I actually literally have connected bread that I'm planning on eating in the very near future.
- [46:46]
C
Yeah. With shaped meat. Lexi, you're gonna go ahead and tell me that a meatball sandwich is not super similar to a hot dog.
- [46:53]
D
Yes, yes, yes. I'm just gonna say that for the
- [46:57]
C
sake of staying cozy, I'll let you live in that reality.
- [47:01]
D
You're right. This is a chaos. Question.
- [47:04]
C
Welcome to my life.
- [47:05]
D
I love it.
- [47:06]
C
Wait till you hear the other ones that I'm saving for all future people who meet me in this cozy corner of the Internet.
- [47:13]
D
I'm so excited.
- [47:14]
C
I'm so excited. Lexi, thank you so much for being here to chat about our shared love of cozy fantasy. What a hook. And thank you, thank you, thank you to all of you for coming in to join us as well. Hopefully you're off to discover this genre or read some more cozy fantasy books. A quick reminder to go ahead and check out the fantasy fan club in the link in the description. And if you're interested in checking out other shows in the network, be sure to give Fantasy Fanfellas a try. It's a super fun podcast hosted by Hayden, producer of Fantasy Fangirls and Book talk star Stephen Walker. And I'm just telling you, you've got to go. You got. If you're not reading Mistborn, first of all, let's correct correct that issue and then head over to Fantasy Fanfellas. It is so fun. And they have been deep diving Mistborn, which is why I'm telling you, you have to go read it. Although they're in the second book at the time of this recording well of Ascension. You can also follow Fantasy Fan reads on social media as well as myself, your lovely host, the Lost Books of Jess. This is a new podcast also, so please take some time to rate and review. It helps us so, so much. And share this podcast with your friends who also might love all things Things Cozy.
- [48:20]
D
Yes. Thank you so much for having me, Jess.
- [48:23]
C
Yeah, you're so welcome, Lex. You're welcome back anytime in the cozy corner of the Internet.
- [48:27]
D
Oh, I'm sure I might want to come back once or twice. Yeah, I'll allow it.
- [48:32]
C
I'll allow it.
- [48:34]
D
Bye Bye.
- [48:38]
E
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- [49:08]
F
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan.
- [49:11]
C
Fellas.
- [49:11]
F
I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [49:16]
A
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you call me the Smash Daddy.
- [49:20]
F
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [49:29]
A
That's right. Hei, hei. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [49:34]
F
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [49:41]
A
News flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.