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- [00:00]
Nicole
When you refresh how you see things, the world can be a more vibrant place. Just in time for spring, Pear Eyewear has three new colorways for their most iconic acetate base frames. Take a peek at their new cozy honey, soft lavender and moody gray frames. And don't forget, you can soften or bolden your look in a snap with their endless collection of top frames.
- [00:20]
Lexi
Those new glasses that I got recently that you all have been so nicely commenting on, those are my new pair of eyeglasses and I absolutely love how I have sunglasses that just snap on. It is so convenient and I absolutely, absolutely love it. It's like that ocean color too, and it's so me.
- [00:36]
Nicole
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- [00:58]
Lexi
Upgrade how you see the world and how the world sees you. Go to Pair Eyewear.com and use code FFG for 15% off your first pair and support the show by mentioning Fantasy Fangirls sent you in your post checkout survey. That's P A I R I wear.com code FFG.
- [01:17]
Pen Cole
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- [01:36]
Nicole
Shop now in stores and@nordstrom.com welcome, welcome welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls podcast where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore, character themes, series and more.
- [02:01]
Lexi
I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy lore nerd.
- [02:03]
Nicole
And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic.
- [02:06]
Lexi
At heart and we are here to help curate your book Hangover.
- [02:09]
Nicole
We are beyond excited to get ready for our new deep dive of the Kindred's Curse Saga in today's intro episode ahead of our Kindred's Curse Saga journey that will start with Spark of The Everflame on May 5, we get to interview the author of the Kindred's Curse saga herself, Pen Cole.
- [02:26]
Lexi
Oh my goodness, we can't wait to talk with her. In addition to our interview with Pen we, we highly recommend you tune into this intro episode as we explain how spoilers will work for these episodes. Walk through our Deep Dives format and what you can expect from these jam packed episodes and we'll give you a little insight into who we are, what fantasy fangirls is all about, and how we fell in love with the Kendrick's Curse saga, where we decided it'll be our next Deep dive. Then we'll sit down with Pen to discuss how the story came to be, hear some character insights, what's next for the series, and more.
- [02:53]
Nicole
But first, there are no Kindred's Curse Saga spoilers in this episode until we talk with Pen. Before we dive into that interview, we will give a big old spoiler warning for the three books that are out in the series. We do bring up some characters and some concepts that do happen in book three, and she even gives us a little teaser or two for book four. We should also let you know that we are adults who say adult things about adult books. This might be a slow burn, friends, but we are still adults. We will be talking about Luther Courbrois, trust me. So please be mindful of those little listening ears. But right off the top of this episode, let's go ahead and address how spoilers will work for our Deep Dive episodes because this is very important for you all to know.
- [03:36]
Lexi
While our Deep Dive will focus on the book and specific chapters we're covering each episode, every episode will include spoilers, spoilers, spoilers for all three released books in the Kindred's Curse saga to make this deep dive the best it can be from the get go, we openly discuss themes, lore, foreshadowing and other insights across the series. So please, please, please, please only listen to our Kindred's Cursed Saga episodes. If you have finished Heat of the Everflame, which is book three of the series, our coverage will lead up to the release of the fourth and final installment of the series, Burn of the Everflame, and we will go straight into Deep Diving this book after it comes out.
- [04:09]
Nicole
On the other hand, even though we just wrapped up our Onyx Storm Deep Dive, these Kindred's Curse Saga episodes will be safe from Empyrean, even a Court of Thorns and Roses plot spoilers, even though we might occasionally reference a character trait or a no context inside joke like Gem watch from previous Deep Dives. We will be mindful about no plot spoilers in case you have not read those two series, which hey, if you.
- [04:34]
Lexi
Have read them but haven't listened to our other Deep Dives, you have hundreds very plural there. With hundreds more hours of fantasy fangirls content to listen to as we all wait for Burn to come out, this.
- [04:45]
Nicole
Book podcast is not a typical book podcast. When we say deep dive, we mean deep dive. These episodes may be long, like two and a half hours long, but we promise that there is plenty of structure and flow so that you can easily follow along.
- [05:02]
Lexi
First up, in every episode, Nicole will kick us off by consulting with our royal advisors. This is where she'll give a summary of what happens in this episode's chapters. But friends, she does chapter summaries like you've never heard them before. They are unhinged in the best way possible.
- [05:16]
Nicole
Then we'll reach into the Forging Magic to discuss key insights, themes, character analysis, and definitely a theory or two looking at you. Chapter one A Spark this is the meat of every single episode. While we're in this magic filled segment of the episode, we will also tap into our Umbros magic where we turn our full attention onto important foreshadowing moments for the rest of the series as well as speculations for book four.
- [05:41]
Lexi
Afterward, I'll walk you through a world building topic to help you better understand the lore and how it fits into the story. We're calling this segment the Sophos Library. A few of these topics will include History of Foraging Day, the Guardians, the other realms with their cultures and magic Gryverns, and oh so much more.
- [05:57]
Nicole
And finally, we'll wrap up every episode with skipping around the apple orchard. Here we will finish the episode out with favorite quotes, heartfelt moments, a Luther Courbois soliloquy probably done by me, and other tidbits that make our hearts oh so happy from these stretch of chapters as we look into our Book one coverage, here is the schedule we are starting with Book one, Spark of the Everflame, which will be four episodes in total and they will release every single Monday. Starting with episode one covering the prologue through chapter six. The full chapter by chapter episode breakdown is pinned on our social media accounts antasyfangirlspod.
- [06:34]
Lexi
Then our deep dive will continue with Glow of the Everflame and Heat of the Everflame in the lead up to Burn of the Everflame's release. Moving on to who in the world we are at Fantasy Fangirls, in case.
- [06:44]
Nicole
You are new here. First of all, hi, welcome, welcome, welcome to the party. Fantasy Fangirls is a deep dive podcast that's like Best Friends book Club meets your favorite English class. We analyze characters, highlight foreshadowing, discuss theories. So many theories. Explain world building and share so many more insights with lots of pop culture references, sisterly banter, and of course inappropriate jokes along the way Fantasy Fangirls truly.
- [07:09]
Lexi
Has grown into so much more than a podcast. We're a book community that bonds over our love for fantasy. With 100,000 weekly listeners, almost half a million followers across social platforms, and 3,500 members of our Fantasy Fan Club Premium Subscription, Together we all celebrate the real life impact of these fantasy stories, connect with each other through these fictional characters, their journeys, and these magical worlds that hold a special place in our hearts.
- [07:32]
Nicole
As for your hosts, hello, I'm Nicole. I'm the little sister of the two of us. I'm the lover of romance and fantasy and will frequently write love letters to smut literature or probably make a sex joke or two. But about about two years ago I started reading fantasy after many, many, many years of the nonfiction life, looking for the thing that would give me the spark of the Everflame back into my life that I felt like was missing and so I decided to pick up A Court of Thorns and Roses having never heard of the series. I guess it was just the neon red cover that really stood out to me, but I immediately fell head over heels for the genre and it really reignited my love of reading and also just felt like a really fun reason to get up in the morning. That spark was definitely reignited and Lex are not being dramatic when we say that this genre quite literally changed our lives. Outside of reading though I am a Colorado resident, I live here with my husband Brett who has recently read Kindred's Curse Saga and it's his favorite series we've read together.
- [08:29]
Lexi
And then I'm Lexi. I'm three years older than Nicole. I also live in Colorado with my family, including my husband Jake and we live pretty close to you Nicole and it is amazing. I'm the mom. Between us I have two young children, my son is almost four and my daughter is two. I was climbing the corporate ladder before kids, then switched to part time freelancing and stay home mom. Then fantasy fangirls happened and it has completely changed our lives in the best ways like Nicole was saying. And now it is both of our full time careers that we are so incredibly grateful for. When it comes to reading, I'm more of the lore nerd who especially loves fantasy for all its magical world building the histories, politics and nuances. It's fun because while I absolutely do appreciate the romance and swoon over our shadow daddies, Nicole and I really do balance each other out with our different approaches to these romantasy books. I was an avid reader as a kid. I grew up on Harry Potter and it first ignited my love for fantasy. Then, as it happens, life got in the way and I stopped reading for fun. I forgot what it really felt like over the years just being an adult. Then in late summer 2023, Nicole told me I have to read this book called A Court of Thorns and Roses. I didn't know anything about it, just like she didn't when she first picked it up. I had never heard of it. I hadn't read a new book in years. So after she twisted my arm a little, I read it. And then I gobbled up the series within a few weeks as it reminded me why I love fantasy, why I love reading. Over this past year and a half, it has been so much fun to dive into these magical worlds and read epic stories. Which brings us to the Kindred's Curse Saga. Spark of the Everflame was our June 2024 book club selection and it instantly became a member favorite. Most of all of us, including Nicole and I, devoured all three books. Instead of just book one, which was our book club book, none of us could stop reading. We loved the world we had way too much with all the theorizing. The chat was bopping in our discord for months. We all loved it so much that in fact we invited Pen Cole to join us for book club and she was the first author we interviewed for our book club and we had the best conversation with her, which led to Nicole and I doing a bonus episode for Burn of the Everflame Theories. Basically, we could not get enough of the series, and as one of our favorites, it's been very, very, very high on our short list of potential deep dives for almost a year now.
- [10:38]
Nicole
Which brings us to why we chose the series as our next deep dive. When we were making the decision, we made a list of all the things that the had to have. Number one, it needed to be a series we loved and could read a million times. We would need to read it a million times and still be able to find new hidden Easter eggs on each read. Number two, we knew we needed a series with lots of world building, not only because we love it, Lexi especially, but also because we needed enough material for Lexi's Deep Dive lore segments. Number three, we love an incomplete series because then we get to theorize and come up with wild and crazy ideas for what might happen in the next installment. Number four, we knew we need characters who were rich and who we would be able to look through their POVs even when it seemed really hard and even when we don't agree with them, which includes having a complex male main character and female main character with a delicious romance that was a must for me. And of course, rootable and fun side characters. And last but not least, number five. We knew we wanted to highlight an author who wasn't on the mainstream stage, like Rebecca Yarros or Sarah J. Maas. And we wanted to deep dive a series that we felt was so good and deserved a space in that type of spotlight. And when we were looking at this list, Kindred's Curse Saga hit every single mark. Multiple times, probably. So now that we know how the spoilers work, what the segments are, and why we chose the series to deep dive, it is time to hop in with the lady of the hour, the creator of Omarion herself, Pen Cole.
- [12:10]
Lexi
But first, as promised, this is your big spoiler warning now. Okay? While our conversation with Pen is not hitting on crazy plot points points, at the end of Heat, we are going to be talking about characters, themes, and all of that that does shape the whole series. So we're just giving you a blanket spoiler warning to be safe.
- [12:25]
Nicole
So if you do not know about a character who is so special to our hearts that there is literally a goat named after him, then please go finish the series. We will be here when you're done, and then you'll have plenty of material to listen to from the Deep dive.
- [12:38]
Lexi
And with that big spoiler warning out of the way, let's go talk to Pen.
- [12:41]
Nicole
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the podcast Pen call. This has been so long coming. Oh, my God.
- [12:49]
Lexi
Thank you so much for being here with us today and for answering some of our questions and so that we can all get a little bit more insight into this series as we start covering it. Yay.
- [12:59]
Pen Cole
Thank you for having me. I'm so, so excited to be here and excited for Yalls deep dive.
- [13:04]
Nicole
We're so excited for the Deep Dive. This was one of those books where we, like, listed out everything that we wanted in a deep dive. And we're like, yeah, Kindred's Curse saga hits every single fucking point. So that was the easiest decision ever.
- [13:18]
Lexi
I mean, we already kind of knew we were gonna deep dive it back in June last year when we had you on for our book club interview. Cause after that, I was like, all right, well, this is amazing.
- [13:28]
Nicole
So we loved how you were so good at giving teasers and yet torturing us at the same time. So it was perfect.
- [13:35]
Lexi
Yes.
- [13:36]
Nicole
As we get excited for this deep dive and going into the world of Amari and DM's story, all the societal themes that you so deliciously go into. Can you give us a little bit of insight into what inspired the Kindred Score saga?
- [13:47]
Pen Cole
There were a few different inspirations. I was very inspired. Well, the first sort of quote unquote, spark that came to mind was what happens at the very end of Spark, actually. So the big kind of twist that happens in that last little line that was I sort of had this vision of what does a world look like where this thing could happen? And how does that impact, you know, the society and how does that impact how people treat each other and how people view power and authority and, you know, how the, the two caste systems in this world, how they interact with each other and what happens when they're kind of blown up a little bit or inverted. And so I was very interested in the sociological aspect of the kind of consequences of something like this happening. I also was just very. You know, I knew I wanted to write a Romantasy because it's my favorite genre and I think it's the best ever. But I also wanted to write a book that dealt with some kind of heavy themes and things that issues that we're seeing in the world today that we're all kind of thinking a lot about and grappling with how to handle things like, you know, the generational effects of colonialism and discrimination and income inequality and gender discrimination and all of these societal problems that we're all kind of saying, well, what's the right answer? How do we fix this? How do we deal with this? And obviously there is no easy answer. If there was, we wouldn't still be having these issues. And so, like, how do I get people to think about these issues in a way that they don't just automatically come into it with preconceived notions of, like, what side they're on or, you know, what they believe or who's right and who's wrong. If I can get them to come at it from more of a theoretical standpoint in this, you know, brand new fantasy world, maybe I can get them to open their mind a little bit and think about things in a different way. So I, I wanted to combine like the fun aspects of Romanasy that I love with also some, like, serious social topics.
- [15:57]
Lexi
Definitely. And I love how the series, it's not so black and white. It feels like it's black and white in the beginning of it. And that's kind of like how we're led to believe, especially in a lot of fantasy worlds, that is how it is. And then you really look at the gray and how. Okay, well, so, you know, like, if you look at this answer, well, then that's the wrong answer for something else. And so like, how do you come together and find that gray area there?
- [16:21]
Nicole
I love it. Well, and I think we're so used to, in Romantasy, we're used to being in one character's POV or maybe like the FMC and the MMC. And while we are in DMs POV so much, one of the things I love about this book and what I'm so excited for, the Deep Dive, is looking through those other POVs, like, even though they're not on the page, like in their own, like in, like they're not saying I, me, whatever on the page, we're still going to be looking through their POV and saying, well, why? Why is Henry right in this moment, in all of this stuff that I'm so excited and I know you're excited for us to define Henry a little too. Yeah.
- [16:56]
Lexi
We would love to hear the story behind the order of writing these books, especially regarding book one, Spark.
- [17:01]
Pen Cole
The Everflame Spark was actually kind of the second book that I wrote when I originally plotted out the series. Cause I'm a very heavy plotter. I like plotted out every book before I started writing. And I originally envisioned it as a trilogy. And book one was going to begin with what happens at the end of Spark. And sort of which, you know, for those who haven't read, is sort of this event that blows up her world and turns everything on its head. And it's a very fish out of water moment where she's sort of shoved out of her little mortal village and forced to interact with people that she has not historically interacted with and like kind of go into places that she hasn't really been familiar with. And that's a very kind of standard fantasy thing. The person in the small little village, something happens to them and they're forced to go into the big city or go into the magical realm or go into the fae lands or whatever, you know, and that's the beginning of their story. And so I think I started writing it that way because that's how I've always read it. And as I was writing what is now Glow, and I got about halfway into Glow, I realized this. It's not. Something's not hitting. And I think it was because what dm, her motivations and what drives every decision she makes is how she was raised and who she was raised with and the beliefs that she held for so long until this thing happens. And, yes, I can tell you that that's what she cares about and that's what she believes. But I think it doesn't quite hit as hard as seeing it and living it and having it tested, you know, in front of you and being in her head as those beliefs are challenged. And so I thought we really need to go back and see more of Diem's life in her little village and the people that she was raised with and, you know, just everything that she believed to be true about the world and understand that, because that drives every decision she makes for the entire rest of the series. So for me, book one is really kind of the mortal world book, where we understand how these people live, how they are oppressed, how they feel about it, and their side of this war that's beginning to grow. So, yeah, I went back and I started over. I also originally wrote the book as third person pov.
- [19:35]
Lexi
Oh, yeah.
- [19:37]
Pen Cole
And around that same time, I was kind of like, this doesn't feel like it's hitting. We need to be in her head. Like, we really need to understand her motivations because she is so. DM's story is really one of not quite fitting in any one group and kind of being on her own and forging her own path. And I think in order to really feel that we have to be in her head and be going along that journey with her. She also doesn't know much about the world around her, and neither do we. And so being in her head, I think, is a really good way to make the world building a little bit more accessible, because there's stuff she knows and then a lot she doesn't, and we're learning it alongside her, as opposed to just being these passive observers who are kind of watching this girl figure out the world that she's always lived in.
- [20:26]
Lexi
Yes, yes. Well, and about the series, too. Like, you know, book one does start where it is a sheltered pov, because you only know as much as she does. And then based on the events that happen, you know, like, each book expands even more and more and more. And then by heat, it's not like it's not recognizable from book one, but it's just like, wow, like, so much has happened and you have to go through that journey with her to go through that. I'm curious. You mentioned that it was originally in third person pov, and you had already written about half of glow. Did you have to go back through and rewrite pretty much all of it?
- [21:00]
Pen Cole
Yeah, I basically scrapped all of that. I know it was like 60,000 words because I had to rewrite all of that, obviously, to make it first person. But also when I went back to add Spark on, I added a whole lot more plot lines. Like, the whole Guardians plot line didn't exist originally. Like, originally she was kind of fighting alone for the mortals. And she was really like. It was like her. A very like, David versus Goliath situation where she's fighting, nobody else is fighting with her. And I thought, number one, that doesn't really make sense that these people wouldn't have, like, wouldn't. That some element of this society wouldn't be rising up against their oppressors. And two, I needed to diem is very idealistic, right? She believes in hope and love and friendship. And I think at one point Henry asked her, like, you think you can win this war through, like, the power of friendship?
- [21:57]
Lexi
Yeah, kind of does.
- [21:59]
Pen Cole
Like, that's kind of who she is. She's very Kumbaya. And. And that is a result of her having been sheltered for so long and not really seeing the worst of the oppression around her. Her parents did a very good job of protecting her, but the consequence to that is she's a little. She's a lot naive. And I think we needed more of a voice of reason or more of a realistic voice, at least in Henry and some of the other mortals in saying, like, yeah, that's nice to have these ideals, but, like, you also have to live in the real world where those ideals don't always play out the way you think they're going to. And so I needed the kind of harsher side of the mortals to come out to show DMs like, Nativity in context of the. The whole world.
- [22:49]
Nicole
So were there any scenes in Glow that have completely but, like, a deleted scene, I'll call it, that are just like living rent free in your head.
- [22:57]
Pen Cole
I would say Luther's story changed a lot because, you know, in Glow, we really get to know who he is a lot better. And in Spark, it allowed him to stay in this mysterious sort of darkness for a lot longer, which was really fun to play with and really fun to set him up as, like, do we trust him? Do we think he's a good guy? Or do we think maybe he's a good guy in some context, but not in others?
- [23:26]
Lexi
The way that he and her mom didn't get along, even though they still were working toward the same goals, as you learned later on, that was just so delicious because it's like, it sets him up even more as very mysterious and very like, oh, like, can I trust him? Because he doesn't necessarily get along with her mom, but at the end of the day, it's like, okay, like, once you learn even more. I just loved it so much. Yeah.
- [23:48]
Nicole
Well, I feel like that's such a moment in. Especially in Glow with DM constantly having that inner battle of, like, oh, I can't really trust him. Like, oh, he did that thing. Like, I can't trust him. I can't. And she's trying to make it almost black and white, but it's like, she doesn't want to see that. It's not black and white at all. It's actually completely gray. And. Ah, that's just like.
- [24:06]
Lexi
I love it.
- [24:07]
Nicole
It's so delicious. It's so good. Yeah.
- [24:09]
Pen Cole
She really wants to. It's ironic because she talks a lot about people putting, like, women in boxes and how she wants to escape this, but she does the same thing of putting people in this box of good or bad. And she has to be confronted with the reality that most people are somewhere in the middle and they. There can be good people that do bad things and. Or people who do bad things for good reasons. And, you know, she really has to reorient the way she sees the world. And we kind of see that process begin to break down in Spark.
- [24:42]
Nicole
Yeah.
- [24:43]
Lexi
Yes. And then it's not until Heat, where it's really, like, not so conceptual, but it's like, right there in front of her where she's like, they might be doing bad things, but don't kill them, you know? Are you serious? She's like, they don't understand kind of thing. Yeah. Because it's like she can relate to them so much. And again, like, yeah, she has one foot in both worlds. And I'm just so excited to explore her character so much.
- [25:08]
Pen Cole
She's on a journey that's.
- [25:10]
Lexi
Yes, she is. I am very curious how it is all going to end, because I have a feeling it is not going to be so Kumbaya as she is hoping it to be. And it's still dm, so I have no idea where you're going with this pen, but I'm so excited for it.
- [25:25]
Nicole
Just look.
- [25:32]
Lexi
We'll see.
- [25:33]
Pen Cole
We'll see.
- [25:34]
Lexi
That's a key. Keep reading. So we're curious, what was the first scene you wrote for Spark?
- [25:42]
Pen Cole
I'm very much a chronological order writer, so I started the beginning and I go completely in order all the way through. So I. I really did start with that very first scene, I think I had written the prologue for Glow, like the prologue, and it was going to be in front of glow. So I think the very first thing I ever wrote was that brief, brief little prologue. And then the. I think the first thing I ever wrote was the flashback scene in. Well, maybe not. No, because originally it was. She's sort of walking through the forest with Henry and she. They sort of get attacked by this group of people. And in the middle of this attack, the thing at the end of Spark sort of.
- [26:28]
Lexi
Oh, okay, cool.
- [26:30]
Pen Cole
Like, takes her by surprise. And so I kept that element of the attack sort of with what happens in Mortal City, where she's walking down the alleys and these three men kind of approach her. But we had to expand that quite a bit, obviously, and bring in like the whole stuff with her mother and the talk with Maura to set the world. When I originally wrote Spark, it was definitely very new writer, common issue. It was like 20 pages of just info dumping about world. And truly, like so much just. And this is. The gods came here and this happened, and here are the different realms. And the very first Alpha reader I had was like, mm, mm, absolutely not. And so I had to go back and say, okay, how do I make this interesting? Instead of just, you know, being like info dumping.
- [27:26]
Lexi
Is that how it then opened on Foraging Day? Because it opens on a holiday that then you can incorporate that info dumping, right? Yeah. Was it making sense? Yeah, exactly.
- [27:35]
Pen Cole
So then we bring Mora in and, you know, we just have little snippets. It really all happens through dialogue now where they're kind of talking more about what's going on around them. And it's a little easier to get away with that when you have two characters talking to each other. Because I think we all love dialogue a lot more than just just blocks.
- [27:53]
Lexi
Yes, yes.
- [27:54]
Pen Cole
So, yeah, So I guess all of that info dumping was the first thing I wrote and that got scrapped into what is now chapter one. Of all of the stuff that happens in chapter one, the longest chapter one in existence, I think. I love.
- [28:08]
Nicole
We're. So as we were doing our map of the episode is what we call it for episode one, we were looking through chapter one and we were trying. We try not to do two beat by beat. But we were like, yeah, fuck that. We have to do beat by beat.
- [28:20]
Lexi
I know how to do this chapter like that.
- [28:23]
Nicole
That was a non negotiable.
- [28:24]
Lexi
And that is also a big reason why it's like you need to read all three books before you start episode one, Chapter One. Because we are going to be talking about it.
- [28:33]
Pen Cole
Yes. Chapter one is chock full of little hints and clues and prophecies. So much stuff. Some stuff people don't even realize yet.
- [28:45]
Lexi
A question for you is a lot of stuff, including things that will be revealed in Burn or. Oh, all right.
- [28:52]
Pen Cole
Oh, yeah, for sure.
- [28:53]
Nicole
Could we get an itemized list per.
- [28:55]
Pen Cole
Chance I have to shoot my shot.
- [29:00]
Lexi
That's called delegating, Nicole.
- [29:05]
Pen Cole
I think every. Not every detail, but. But pretty close to every detail in chapter one is there for a reason. You know, every little thing is pretty significant for some reason.
- [29:22]
Nicole
We do know the answer to this one. But there was a last minute scene that you included in Spark because originally the kiss was not there, right?
- [29:30]
Pen Cole
Correct.
- [29:32]
Nicole
What made you add it?
- [29:33]
Pen Cole
Okay, well, we know I love a slow burn. Oh, girl.
- [29:36]
Nicole
I love molasses on a cold day in jail.
- [29:41]
Pen Cole
January snowboarding, if you can believe it. This is. The series moved faster than I wanted it to. I wanted it to originally be a lot slower, actually.
- [29:50]
Nicole
Where was DM at the end of Glow, She.
- [29:52]
Pen Cole
At the end of Glow, she had, like. Is basically the kiss where she starts to think like, oh, wait, I might be into this guy, but not like, fully, like, committed, you know, this is like I'm choosing him over him. It was where she is at the end of Spark, which is, oh, no, I have an attraction to this guy and I don't know what to do about it. Like, I'm still pretending like it's not happening. And I had all these very angsty scenes in Heat originally where she's really agonizing over, like, do I. Which of them do I choose? And you know, who, like, not wanting to kind of all of the angsting she does in Glow of like, I'm supposed to be with this person, but my heart is leading me elsewhere. Most of that really happened in Heat. The. The scene where Taryn confronts her about it was on the road in Heat originally. Yeah. And when she. Essentially, when she goes back, I mean, she still kind of breaks it off when she goes back in Heat, but, like, that was really supposed to be the first time that her and Henry's relationship was challenged. Was like when she goes back and he.
- [31:05]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [31:06]
Pen Cole
And so I wrote Spark originally without really any kind of nothing more than tension. You know what I mean? Like, banter, a little bit of tension, but nothing physical. No touching or anything like that. And my readers are like, really give us something romantasy. Right? Like the romance. And so I was like, okay, are people gonna dnf cause there's like, no romance in book one. Even though I think it's pretty obvious. Like, you can tell that obviously this man is going to become somebody important to her. But I. Yeah, they were all pretty like, can we get a little more, please? And so I added the kiss scene, and ironically, I sent it to two people. And I wrote this truly, like, last, last, last minute. I mean, it was maybe a week before I sent arcs out for Spark, because I was still self published at the time, so I could move that quickly. And I added it in and I sent it to two people, and both of them told me to take it out. Oh, you can't go.
- [32:13]
Lexi
That's so funny, because when we did, when we were talking to you for our book club, almost everybody said that was their favorite scene.
- [32:21]
Pen Cole
Absolutely. Every scene I add last minute ends up being everyone's favorite scene. I think it's because by the point that I write those last scenes, I know the characters so much more, and I'm able to bring out a lot more of their personalities once I really have gotten to know them through that whole kind of book and that writing process. And so now, I mean, it's my favorite scene too, I think, honestly. But yeah, one of them was my husband, and he was like, I just think it's too much. I don't think it needs it. And then the other was just a friend who read it and was like, yeah, I don't really think you need it. Like, it feels a little weird that they are kissing so quickly, and I'm like.
- [33:01]
Nicole
It'S 400 pages that quickly.
- [33:04]
Pen Cole
I know. And I just. My gut was telling me it needed to be there and that readers would want it. And so, you know, you have to trust your gut at the end of the day. Definitely.
- [33:13]
Nicole
Definitely.
- [33:14]
Lexi
So, okay, so you mentioned that was your favorite. That ended up being your favorite scene in Spark. What are your favorite scenes for the rest of the series?
- [33:22]
Pen Cole
I have favorite scenes for different reasons. So basically, like, any scene that Taryn in is, like, one of my favorite scenes, right? And especially the bromance scenes with him and Luther, like, any scene where the two of them are bonding or goofing off or whatever, because I think we. We see Luther's, like, softer side come out in those moments and his more playful side come out. And I love when we get those little glimpses into his kind of the man beneath the mask, you know? And also I think Taryn is basically me in male form. So, like, writing him is sort of my self insert where I Just get to have fun for a minute. So I love those. But I think the scenes that are that mean the most to me are usually the ones that Henry is in, because they. That's where I get to the core of that, like, issue underlying the series, which is this injustice and this oppression. Like, how do we fix this? Like, how do we help these people? And so every scene that he's in, he's really pushing her on. Like, we need to fix this problem and you are over here doing this other thing, but, like, while you're off having fun in the palace or whatever, like. Like, we're all still suffering and it's. I think those moments are really grounding for her and grounding for us as a reader that, like, yeah, we're having fun with this, like, romance and Taryn's goofing off and whatever, but also, people are, like, really suffering and dying in the background. And I think it adds some urgency to the situation of, like, this really needs to be fixed. It can't go on any longer.
- [34:57]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [34:58]
Nicole
Were you expecting the. I'm gonna say up in arms, like.
- [35:03]
Lexi
The feelings about Henry?
- [35:05]
Nicole
The feelings is a great word. The pitchforks and torches was maybe not the best phrase that I was gonna say, but, yes, the feelings towards Henry. Were you expecting that?
- [35:13]
Pen Cole
Nope.
- [35:14]
Nicole
Nope.
- [35:14]
Pen Cole
He sure wasn't. I actually had a couple of Beta readers who were like, I like Henry more than Luther. And I was like, oh. And I think I maybe went in and softened Luther and, like, like, hardened Henry a little bit more or added a little bit of. You know, there are little things in Spark that are signs that they're not super compatible. Right. Like, there's the moment where he sort of pushes back on taking the contraceptive serum and, you know, just little things where he. You can tell that maybe their values and priorities aren't as aligned as they thought they were. And I. I did. I didn't think that those would become such, like, hot button moments. People to be like, he is the most evil person to ever exist. And I'm like, no, they're just, like, not a good fit. Like, he's not a good person. I swear, people took it and ran with it. He ran with these little things that I was doing just to make it obvious, because I know the thing people hate about love triangles is when you fall in love with one side and then she passes, picks the other. And so I did want to make it pretty obvious from early on, like, who is right for her and who isn't, so that you didn't have that disappointment.
- [36:32]
Lexi
Congratulations, you did it.
- [36:36]
Pen Cole
Yeah, I think I may have done that a little too much. Like, it might have been a little too obvious, but it was never intended to make him seem like a bad person. It was just meant to be like, he's. They're not right for each other. They just want different things out of life.
- [36:52]
Nicole
Well, something that we're really excited for on the show is having those moments where we are putting ourselves in Henry's POV and looking at. Because it is really easy to just be, like, done with Henry, because that's kind of what we're used to in the romantasy genre. But we're really wanting to lean away from that urge in this deep dive. And so we have a very fun segment, too, to combat that.
- [37:15]
Lexi
In Henry's shoes. Yes. And speaking of that, something that we do love to do with our deep dives is put ourselves in those other characters shoes, and especially when it might be particularly difficult. So as we are talking about Henry, what do you hope? We, both Nicole and I, as well as all of our listeners, hope to keep top of mind with his character.
- [37:35]
Pen Cole
I think a lot of the misunderstanding I see in Henry is people assuming that his motives are really for him, only that they're very, like, selfish, and he's just trying to get power for himself or do what he wants. And at least, you know, art is subjective. It's every person's right to interpret the story in the way that is right for them. So, like, I'll never tell a reader, like, what you think about the book is wrong. But at least for me, as the author, that was never the intention. Like Henry and Diem, they grew up truly, like, side by side, and they shared all of the same values and goals. You know, you have to think about how many hundreds of nights they sat along the shore talking about how much they hated the Descended, both of them, and how this needed to stop and how the world needed to change and how someday, you know, maybe they would overthrow the descended or bring them down and the mortal mortals would have power again. And they also talked about a future together, like going on adventures together and like, growing old together. Maybe not as lovers, but at least as friends. Like, they truly envision their lives side by side with all of the same values and goals. And so when we start to see the kind of, like, splitting, I don't think it's that Henry is trying to force his beliefs on dm. I think it's that he still is believing that she has the same goals as him. You know, when we see him get upset that she's not willing to do the things that he thinks are necessary for the mortals, he sees it as a betrayal. Because, like, I thought we were on the same team. Like, I thought we agreed that this is what need to happen. And especially when he sees. Sees her in the palace dressed in, you know, finery and, you know, laughing and hanging out with other descended, he that to him there is no deeper betrayal because these are the people that in his mind, killed his mother, you know, and killed neighbors and children. And so I don't think that, at least for me, it was never about Henry saying, I want to be king or I want to be in charge. He pushes DM into leadership, Right? He says, you should lead us into this. Like, you could be leader of the Guardians. So I don't think it's really about him so much as, like, I thought we were both fighting for the mortals, and I don't know if you're still on my team anymore. And I think that betrayal is really at the heart of the conflict between them because she's not communicating to him that she's starting to have second thoughts about what's right and wrong in the world.
- [40:22]
Lexi
Well, she also can't really articulate it for herself except saying, no, this is wrong. And Henry comes back being like, well, then what's your solution exactly? I don't know. And he's like, okay, that's not an answer. So we have to keep going then, you know, summarize that. But you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah.
- [40:41]
Pen Cole
And so I think it's helpful, especially in any conversations they have about what's going on in the world, to not necessarily look at it so much as, like, we are on DM's team, we love her, and this is the person who's against her so much as, like, is DM maybe wrong in some of her beliefs? And, like, is she being too naive? Is he speaking some truth to her that she needs to hear to break down that sort of naitivity and idealism that is standing in the way of her growth? I think that his journey, at least for me, is as important as hers, even though it's not in the spotlight, because his journey is the mortal's journey. Like, are we going to descend into hate and violence and, you know, is the only solution to this war going to be that everyone dies? Or, you know, are we going to find some way to, like, live together and coexist in peace?
- [41:37]
Nicole
Okay, follow up question regarding Henry. Looking at Byrne, obviously you Say whatever you want here, even if it's. Shut up, Nicole. We can't tell you anything. Are there any favorite Henry moments that have yet to come?
- [41:48]
Pen Cole
There's a lot of Henry in Bern, a lot of. I think his arc really comes to a head. He. Yeah, I don't want to give away too much, but I will give that.
- [42:01]
Lexi
Two thumbs up right there. Well, okay. So now, moving back to spark here, we're jumping a little around here, but as Nicole, Cole and I are working on these first few episodes, can you share what it's like for him to not be able to tell DM about her mother's involvement with the Guardians? Like, does he know that why her mom is gone?
- [42:19]
Pen Cole
I always think it's really interesting that both Henry and Luther knew the truth about her mother. And to some extent, Luther knew more about it than Henry did, and neither of them told her.
- [42:32]
Lexi
That's true. So, like, during those six months when they're looking and all of that kind of stuff, and Henry, while they were not necessarily romantic at that time, but that's really where they started to drift apart, even before all the stuff with the Descendant happened. So do you find that partly what his not direct involvement, but, you know, like, his knowledge of that and holding that back from her when he did know about her mom and she's frantically spiraling down, did that have a piece to their wedge?
- [43:00]
Pen Cole
Yeah, definitely. I think, think that her mother did not do her or him any favors in placing that wedge between them or, like, forcing him to keep this secret or at least to choose. Which of us are you going to be loyal to? Like, you made this promise to the Guardians and to me that you would keep this secret, but DM is your closest friend and the woman you love and want to marry. And now you have to choose which of us you know you're going to get. Keep your promise to or at least.
- [43:29]
Lexi
Show your loyalty to. He didn't know about her, like, her exact mission because so few people did know about that, but just her involvement or.
- [43:38]
Pen Cole
Yeah, I don't think he knew where she was or at least not until maybe the last moments. But I think he knew she was on a mission for the Guardians and that's why she had left and that she was going to come back. And we see little moments where he's kind of like, I know that the old gods are gonna bring her back. Like, I trust that she's alive. And he's sort of trying to tell her without telling her that, hey, like, don't mourn her because I think she's gonna come back. Because in his mind he also of course couldn't have known how long it was going to take, right? And so in his mind she could come back any day and he's just kind of waiting for like Arlie to show back up and everything to be okay again, you know. And so I do think he really struggled with keeping that secret and I don't blame him so much for that because Arlie was also like a surrogate mother to him in many ways. And you know, it's tough to that. It's just a tough position to be in. He truly believes in the Guardians and their ideals and like their way of doing things and. And so he really wants to be a good guardian and like keep the secret and abide by the rules. It's certainly fair game for people to judge him for keeping that secret. But I don't think he. I don't think it's as malicious as maybe some people think or as like as much of a betrayal. I think he was really put in a bad position by Orlie. It was a lose lose for him.
- [45:08]
Lexi
I think about In Heat and how when she is really reintroduced to, to the story is there's been so much buildup to it and she and DMs their conflict with one another. And I love how you didn't just kind of make everything okay now that her mom was back. It's like DMs like, no, I got some words for you, mom.
- [45:29]
Pen Cole
You know, we spent three books really building up the legend of Aurelie Bellator, right? Like who she is and everyone has strong opinions on her and good and bad, you know, and there's. She's this iconic figure looming in the background for so much of the series. And then she shows up and the reality just like shatters everything, right? We're sort of expecting her to be this larger than life character and she's just a person and she's a flawed person. And you know, all of a sudden the, the perfect image of her that especially we see in DM's mind because Diem really put her on a pedestal as well. Like you, the cracks just really start to splinter in this perception of her and who she is. And we, you know, we kind of also have to reorient our mind of like who is Arlie Bellator? Why has she done the things that she's done? Do we like her or not? I think people have an opinion probably, but there's a lot more of her story to come as well.
- [46:33]
Lexi
I am curious here. You know, as we're talking about characters and we've kind of been teasing this about DM as we analyze the introduction to DM's character and her mortal life in Spark, what do you feel is important to keep in mind for her character arc?
- [46:47]
Pen Cole
For me, her journey is one of, like I mentioned, the idealism, right. And can you hold on to those ideals and a world that is. That really confronts them? You know, the whole world wants her to be vicious and, like, cruel and vengeful especially, and they want to see her kind of come in with an iron fist and really, like, punish people that we think are bad. And she's very reluctant to do that because she sees the good in every. Every person or at least understands why they do the things that they do. And for me, I think some people look at growth and strength as changing and becoming harder and more decisive. And I don't necessarily agree with that. I think sometimes strength can be holding on to your heart and your values and, you know, your kindness in a world that. That wants you to abandon them and wants you to be cruel. And so for me, some of the biggest moments of her growth are the moments where she chooses love and mercy and kindness over violence and hate and vengeance. And even if maybe there are a lot of consequences for that, because making the right, quote, unquote, right choice doesn't mean the choice that has the fewest consequences, right? Sometimes making the right choice can have the worst consequences in the end, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong choice if it was made for the right reasons, you know? So I would just caution everybody about falling into the trap of what everybody else in the book wants, which is kill him. You know what I mean? Kill them. You know, whatever the hate and the negativity, because that's what the world wants us to do. They want us to hate each other and they want us to position us against each other. She's fighting against that as hard as she can. And that can be either her greatest flaw or her greatest strength, depending on how you look at it.
- [48:55]
Nicole
She, in our opinion, is one of the most realistic FMCs we've ever read. Because of that reason, like, I feel like when we're in Romantasy for so long and we read about bunch of different books and fantasy and romanticy, we keep on seeing a version of, I'm gonna say, like a Selena Sardothian esque, you know, and seeing someone who is so different, who does have those different values is. Can almost be like oh, my gosh. But, like, that's one of the reasons we are so excited to get in our head is because that is so realistic. Like, if you're put up against that situation, what would you choose? And I feel like, like, DM is so many of us, and I just. Ah, God, I love her.
- [49:35]
Lexi
And then as far as her, especially in Spark and how she has truly convinced herself that she is mortal. And I remember when we were talking to you for our book club, a lot of us, it, like, it's like, oh, she's got to be descended. You know, like, there's got to be something else here to. To this. And you made such a great point that's really stuck to me where it's like, you weren't necessarily trying to fool the reader. It was is dm who is just so. So conditioned to think this way. That's just her. I'll call it unreliable narratorness. But even if we readers were picking up on it, so absolutely.
- [50:07]
Pen Cole
I. Yeah. That was never. It was never my intent for the reader to believe her. Denial. Right. That's very much a DM problem. I think as soon as we see. Probably. Honestly, as soon as we hear about her eyes. Right. That you're probably okay. All right. There's something else about you, you know, and especially when you get to the scene in the palace where, you know, Lily is healed. I think at that point, 99% of readers have figured out there's more to this girl. Maybe not exactly what. But, you know, there's more to her than meets the eye. But just I. And I know how frustrating it is to keep reading and be like, girl.
- [50:47]
Lexi
But it's also like, so. Yeah. And the way that she was raised with, like, half mortals are killed.
- [50:54]
Nicole
Yeah.
- [50:55]
Lexi
Like, and end of story. And her mom, again, for her own good reasons, gaslight her into being like, no, no, no. Like, you are hallucinating. Like, you take this and it'll help you. Right.
- [51:06]
Nicole
Quick aside, but we're trying to come up with this segment name for DM Gaslighting herself. And we're like, flame root or something like that.
- [51:15]
Lexi
Flame root.
- [51:18]
Pen Cole
One of my favorite. I. And I don't. I don't read reviews anymore for sure. But I did read one review, and I don't think it was a good review, but that's okay. But I. It was still one of my favorite reviews because the entire review was just one sentence, and it was. You can't spell denial without dm. This person gets it. Get it. Like, that is that sums up.
- [51:45]
Lexi
Yes. But it's like there is such a good reason behind it for her. And I love that in Spark where she really. And then even into Glow as well. And that ends up being a big reason why she's not in touch with her godhood, is because she is kind of. She feels like it's a me against it sort of thing. You know, One of the.
- [52:06]
Pen Cole
One of the most emotional scenes for me to write in the book was the one in the. In Glow in the dungeon where her magic, like, fully unleashes. And Luther is so excited for her. Right. Like, he's like, giddy that he was right and that she's like super powerful and like, you know, all that that means for what he believes her role is in this world. And she's definitely devastated, just broken down by that because for her, that's like the worst possible thing that could have ever happened, you know? And when you think about her in Spark, like, if she accepts that she is descended, then what is? And I'm not saying she is or isn't, but like, if I was just.
- [52:55]
Lexi
Gonna say, because that's the other amazing part is that we all were like, oh, she's descended. And then as you keep reading, it's like, like, oh, wait, what's going on here? And so there's like that extra twist to it.
- [53:06]
Pen Cole
Yeah. Like, even if she's descended, she's not. Something's still different. Like, because most descended are not born with brown eyes and brown hair and change at puberty. Right. So there's still.
- [53:17]
Lexi
And only the Kendra have those white or excuse me, the gray eyes.
- [53:24]
Pen Cole
Things don't quite fit with her as a descendant either. But let's just accept the premise that she is descended. What are the consequences of that? The her she's now the village is going to hate her. They're going to turn against her. Right. Henry will that. Who does he hate more than descendant? No one. Right. So she'll probably lose him as a friend, you know, Will she lose her family? She doesn't really know. Like, she. Probably not, but it's certainly a doubt that's going to be in your mind her that she has to accept then that her mother, like, had sex with the descendant. Which for her is like, what it means that somewhere out there she's probably got a descended father, you know, and maybe he isn't dead. Maybe he's alive. If she lied about this, you know, what else would she lie about? You know, it means that she's going to live on and have to watch everyone she loves, age, and die. Like, it means she's probably gonna have to go into this new village, new city world where no one accepts her. Like, everything about her world deteriorates if this thing is true. And so I think the denial is a very reasonable, honestly, and, like, natural coping mechanism, because accepting that truth would mean accepting that her world is just over as she knows it, and probably losing everyone she loves. It would probably also mean her mother would be killed, you know, as punishment, and maybe her brother and Andre, too, just, you know, by association.
- [54:57]
Lexi
Yeah.
- [54:58]
Pen Cole
And so accepting it also has that real element of risk, especially to Luther, you know, when you don't know if you can trust him or not, because that's literally his job.
- [55:07]
Nicole
Yes.
- [55:07]
Lexi
Like, literally. Yes.
- [55:10]
Pen Cole
You know, so I. I don't think the denial is as unrealistic as maybe people might initially think. Like, it's very much her survival mechanism.
- [55:22]
Lexi
Yes. Such a good point.
- [55:24]
Nicole
I want to pivot to Luther ever so slightly because he's my number one book boyfriend, and the fact that I have been quiet about him is honestly, shocking. For the past however long we've been talking. He is rather, I'm gonna say, in the background during Spark. Like, you definitely feel the tension, but you mentioned on our book club that there's some stuff he's doing in the background. Can you share with us anything of what's happening in his background so that we can keep it in mind in the deep dive pen, obviously?
- [55:55]
Pen Cole
Well, okay, if you've read through glow, right, and you know what he reveals at the very end of glow, we know that he is. Has this belief in his mind that his purpose is to serve the Gray Eyed Queen. He believes this is Lumnos. And he. So when kind of diem comes into his world at that in the palace moment, I think he also has sort of a world reorienting moment of, like, was I wrong? Is this her? Or is she just another disciple of Lumna? So I'm supposed to work with and, like, is this a sign that I'm, you know, that we're supposed to work together to help Lumnos? But, like, she doesn't believe in the kindred she hates descended like he is. She's very much a puzzle he's trying to figure out of, like, how do you fit into my destiny? Because he's so certain of what his destiny is, but it's really tied to Lumnos and his service to her. And so a lot of of what I think is going on with him in the background is trying to Sort of suss out who this girl is and what role she has in the future of this world. There's more to be revealed about the Courbois family generally. And I think there's. We're going to unpack a lot about, like, Remus, for example, Luther's father, Aemon, for sure. Taryn's brother. There's a lot to unpack there. And there's a lot of backstory and history and just lore in the Courbois family of things that they have done to each other and how they've treated each other and why start to bubble up over the series as DM gets to know them all a little bit better. And a lot of that comes to a head in Burn, for sure.
- [57:44]
Nicole
So would you say a good percentage of Bern takes place in the palace, or is that a no? Nicole, shut up. I can't answer that question.
- [57:53]
Pen Cole
It's a lot like he. In that we are in different realms throughout the book, but a good chunk of it does take place in Lumnos. Yes.
- [58:03]
Lexi
All right.
- [58:04]
Nicole
Awesome. We have one more question for you. Thank you very much for putting up with our questions and trying to squeeze as much as we can out of this. So as we go looking more towards Spark as book one, as we go hunting for Easter eggs in our fantasy fangirls deep dives, what. Are there any clues that we should pay attention to? Any.
- [58:26]
Lexi
Besides just chapter one?
- [58:27]
Nicole
Besides just all of chapter one?
- [58:29]
Lexi
Besides just chapter one. I do have a question. Besides the magic that DM uses to heal Lily, do we see her use her other magical abilities from the realms that she has stepped into elsewhere?
- [58:44]
Pen Cole
Yes.
- [58:45]
Lexi
Okay.
- [58:47]
Pen Cole
I'm trying to decide how much to spoil.
- [58:50]
Lexi
You can just say yes, and then we'll go hunting for and we will do the rest.
- [58:56]
Pen Cole
DMs magic is unlike anyone else's, as we know. Right. And I think that is worth looking into a bit more.
- [59:05]
Nicole
All right, I accept that answer.
- [59:10]
Lexi
All right, Pen, now for the actual final, final question. We know that you get asked this probably more than anything else, but you know that we would not be doing our due diligence if we are interviewing you. Any updates on burn? What can you give our listeners about BURN and what's coming up for that?
- [59:25]
Pen Cole
Yeah, we are very close. I will say that we are definitely. There's so much going on in the background, like, so much going on in preparation to hopefully have a release date that. That we can announce. We're not quite ready yet to announce it because, as I have said before, I really don't want to announce it until I'm, like, absolutely certain. Which means that in the background, we have to get through certain steps before we can, like, really feel good about saying this is the date. And so there's a lot of people in the background too, pushing me to, like, say, okay, it's gonna be out on this date. And I just want to make sure that readers can rely on a date once we give them one. So I'm kind of holding back on that. But I know a lot of people have, like, googled it and gotten crazy answers, and I will just say, Google is so wrong. Okay. If you take one thing from this interview, it's to never trust the Google AI summaries. If you ask, who is Taryn's boyfriend, it will tell you Luther.
- [60:22]
Lexi
Okay, what fanfic has Google AI been looking at? Right?
- [60:29]
Pen Cole
Like, okay, the horboi or incestuous, but not like that incestuous. Okay. And if you ask, like, what is Pencole's real name? It says I'm like, Robert something. Like, because that's a guy who interviewed me for some other podcast. And so Google AI has decided that's who I really am. Like, everything you ask it is wrong is at least when it comes to the Kindred's curse and me. So please don't believe Google. No release date has been announced. We are hoping it will be this year. We are hoping it will be not too, too, too late in the year. So I'm fingers crossed that it will be not too much longer of a wait. But I will say when we announce it, we're going to announce it with, like, months to spare so that people will have time to like, prepare their rereads and everything and be ready to go. And so it won't be just like, surprise, it's out today. It will definitely have time to prepare.
- [61:21]
Lexi
Yourself as the people doing the deep dive leading up to burn. There's a reason we have not released our full schedule out yet either. Yeah, please give people time. Give us time.
- [61:33]
Pen Cole
Absolutely.
- [61:35]
Nicole
For sure.
- [61:35]
Pen Cole
I think this is a great place to start the reread with you guys and to do like, to follow along with the deep dive in preparation because I think, fingers crossed, it will be in the not too distant future.
- [61:48]
Nicole
Well, thank you for all that you are doing to bust ass on this book. I know how, like, you're literally three weeks on the road right now walking or writing at the same time. Like, I can only imagine how tired you are and ready to be home and all this kind of stuff. But thank you so much that all that. All that you are doing, all that your team is doing, and we know that you guys are working so, so, so hard. Thank you.
- [62:09]
Lexi
Yes. And we are here in your corner. Yes.
- [62:12]
Pen Cole
Thank you. And I really appreciate all of the readers who've been so patient and understanding. Like, it's so emotional for me every time I talk about it and people say over and over, like, take your time. Do it right. Like, we'll be there when you're done. Like, that means everything to me and it gives me the, like, safe place that I need to, like, do it justice and tell the story right. So I really, really appreciate that.
- [62:38]
Nicole
Mean every word. You're awesome. We're so excited.
- [62:41]
Lexi
Thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah. We are just so excited to dive into the series. And again, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us as we get ready for it.
- [62:49]
Pen Cole
Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it, too.
- [62:52]
Nicole
Thank you.
- [62:52]
Lexi
Thank you.
- [62:53]
Nicole
Thank you so much for joining us on our intro episode in the lead up to our deep dive of the Kindred's Curse saga.
- [62:59]
Lexi
If you're not already, please give us a follow on social media. We are very active on Instagram and TikTok Antasy fangirls pod. And hey, if you're watching this on YouTube or you want to watch us on YouTube, hit that subscribe button to keep following along.
- [63:12]
Nicole
Thank you as always to our executive producer, AKA our sanity manager, Hayden. We, we freaking love you and we cannot wait to go on this journey with you.
- [63:20]
Lexi
All right, everyone, we will see you on May 5th for our first episode of Sparka the Everflame.
- [63:26]
Nicole
See you in Omarion.