Fashion Neurosis with Honey Dijon

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fashion Neurosis with Honey Dijon

Episode Title: Fashion Neurosis with Honey Dijon
Release Date: February 12, 2025
Host: Bella Freud
Guest: Honey Dijon, renowned DJ and fashion icon

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1. Introduction to Honey Dijon and Her Style (00:38 - 03:03)

Bella Freud welcomes Honey Dijon to Fashion Neurosis, initiating the conversation by delving into Honey's fashion choices.

• Outfit Description: Honey describes her attire as a "Canadian tuxedo," emphasizing head-to-toe denim paired with leather and cowboy boots, a nod to the 1970s New York urban jungle. She appreciates denim in all its forms, whether baggy or slim, as it reflects her daily comfort and identity.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (00:55): "I just chose something that really feels like how I like to move through the world, which is simple but a Nod to the 70s and specifically New York in the late 70s."

• Cher Inspiration: Honey highlights how images of Cher, particularly Norman Seff's portrayal of her in a black silk shirt and jeans, deeply influence her style, emphasizing the power of a great pair of jeans.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (02:05): "My favorite Cher image is by Norman Seff... there's nothing sexy than a great pair of jeans."

2. Early Influences and Fashion in Her Upbringing (03:03 - 07:00)

Bella inquires about Honey's childhood and the role fashion played in her life.

• Family Background: Born and raised in a middle-class African American family in Chicago, Honey credits her parents for instilling the importance of fashion as a form of self-expression and resistance against oppression.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (03:13): "Fashion was always in my house... it was where you communicated to the world."

• Music and Subculture Influence: Honey discusses the impact of being born at the inception of house music culture. She explains how club fashion was integral to identifying with different tribes within the scene, drawing inspiration from high-fashion magazines like Vogue and designers like Versace.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (04:10): "Fashion to me has never been about aspiration. It's always been about inspiration."

3. The Intersection of Fashion, Music, and Identity (07:00 - 13:04)

Bella and Honey explore how album covers and music shaped Honey's relationship with fashion.

• Life-Changing Album Cover: Honey identifies Grace Jones' "Nightclubbing" as the album cover that "literally changed [her] life," highlighting the synergy between graphic design, fashion, and music.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (06:04): "That album cover changed my life... she's my shaman and North Star."

• Influence of Malcolm McLaren: Honey expresses admiration for McLaren's perspective, stating, "the look of music and the sound of fashion sums it up for me."

4. Journey into DJing and Fashion in New York (13:04 - 29:19)

The conversation shifts to Honey's early experiences as a DJ and her integration into the New York fashion scene.

• First DJ Experience: Sharing a personal anecdote, Honey recounts her first time DJing at age 8 during her parents' basement parties, dressed in pajamas, which fostered her love for community and celebration.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (07:55): "The music and the laughter and the clanking of the glasses... I fell in love with the joy and celebration."

• Navigating Fashion on a Budget: Honey reveals her resourcefulness during her early DJ days, using Macy's credit card to acquire and return clothes, highlighting the necessity of maintaining a unique look in New York's competitive environment.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (09:20): "New York is brutal for that. You couldn't be caught dead in the same thing twice."

• Connections with Fashion Designers: Honey discusses her relationships with influential designers like Kim Jones and Ricardo Tisci, which propelled her into the fashion world, emphasizing clubs as laboratories for creative exchange.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (28:15): "Club culture for me has never been about entertainment. It's always been about a laboratory of creative exchange."

5. Navigating Identity and Overcoming Insecurities (29:19 - 40:00)

Honey delves into the role of fashion in her personal journey, addressing body image, identity, and resilience.

• Fashion as Liberation: Honey reflects on how fashion served as armor and courage, especially as a trans woman of color, using clothing to affirm her identity and combat societal oppression.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (13:48): "Having a look sort of gives you courage to navigate the world. It can also be a form of armor."

• Embracing Insecurities as Strengths: Honey shares her realization that the very insecurities she faced were her strengths, leading her to celebrate her uniqueness.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (15:50): "I found out a lot of my insecurities were actually my strengths... I just decided to put a fucking gold star on it."

• Influence of Literature: She highlights the impact of books like "The Artist's Way" and "The Four Agreements", introduced by friends in the leather community, which have been pivotal in her personal growth and self-reflection.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (17:45): "Three pages of journaling every morning. And I still do it to this day."

6. Intersectionality: Sex Work, Trans Culture, and Pop Influence (40:00 - 48:00)

Honey expounds on the interconnectedness of sex work, trans culture, and their profound influence on mainstream culture and fashion.

• Body Autonomy and Kink Culture: She identifies gender as the "last frontier", where body autonomy and kink intersect, fostering a space for trans expression through fashion and body modification.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (20:25): "Gender is the last frontier because people are mixing up ways of dressing and expressing body autonomy and the kink community."

• Influence on Mainstream Fashion: Honey traces how subcultural styles from sex work and trans communities permeate mainstream fashion, from nail culture to laissez-faire styles adopted by major brands.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (21:00): "What happens in the street always ends up on the runway in some form or another."

7. Personal Style Preferences: Bags, Makeup, and Fragrance (48:00 - 51:30)

The discussion turns to Honey's specific fashion and beauty preferences, highlighting her love for designer bags, makeup, and perfumes.

• Designer Bags: Honey expresses a deep appreciation for vintage and designer bags, mentioning favorites like Balenciaga Nicola Ghesquier bags and vintage Coach bags from the '70s. She explains how these items serve as status signals and affirmations of success.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (40:11): "Designer bags can change lives... sometimes it's nice to have that flex."

• Makeup and Skincare: While she prioritizes skincare, Honey acknowledges her admiration for makeup artists like Pat McGrath and Way Bandy, appreciating the artistry and self-expression they provide.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (34:06): "I love perfume... it's how you live."

• Fragrance as Emotional Uplift: Honey shares her ritual of using perfume and scented baths to elevate her mood, emphasizing that style encompasses how one lives.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (32:40): "Style is not what you wear, it's how you live."

8. New Collection: Honey Fucking Dijon (51:30 - 52:19)

In the final segment, Honey introduces her latest fashion collection in collaboration with Dover Street Market.

• Concept and Inspiration: The collection, titled "Honey Fucking Dijon," aims to communicate culture through clothing, celebrating the intersection of music, clubs, and community. Honey integrates elements from iconic artists like Keith Haring, Jean Michel Basquiat, and Robert Mapplethorpe, infusing the collection with references to music and sex culture.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (47:18): "Honey Fucking Dijon is basically a celebration... using clothing as a communication of that culture."

• Inclusivity and Non-Binary Design: Emphasizing non-gender-specific fashion, Honey ensures the collection resonates with anyone connected to the club and music scenes, maintaining a critical yet celebratory stance rather than mere nostalgia.

  Notable Quote:
  Honey Dijon (48:15): "It's not in a nostalgic way, but in a critical way that speaks to now and speaks to the kids today."

• Future Collaborations: Honey hints at ongoing and upcoming collaborations, signaling an exciting expansion of her fashion endeavors.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Honey Dijon eloquently intertwines fashion, identity, and cultural expression, illustrating how clothing serves as both a personal armor and a medium for communal connection. Her journey from the basement parties of Chicago to the high-fashion runways of New York underscores the profound impact of self-expression and authenticity in navigating and shaping one's identity.

Final Notable Quote:
Honey Dijon (50:26): "Keeping it honest and real and true to you and inviting people along for your ride."

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This episode of Fashion Neurosis offers an insightful exploration into the symbiotic relationship between fashion and identity, as navigated by the illustrious Honey Dijon. For those intrigued by the unspoken language of clothing and its influence on personal and societal narratives, this conversation provides a compelling listen.

Transcript

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[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Honey. Dijon.

[Honey Dijon]

Hola.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Can you describe what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes?

[Honey Dijon]

I'm wearing what is known as a Canadian tuxedo, which is pretty much head to toe denim. I just wanted to wear something that really felt like how I like to move through the world, which is simple but a Nod to the 70s and specifically New York in the late 70s. And I've always loved that combination of denim and leather and a cowboy boot. It just reminds me of being in the urban jungle in New York. And all of my actual style inspiration comes from New York at that time. So I just chose something that really is. What I pretty much wear every day is some form of denim, whether baggy denim, slim denim, a denim jacket. But it's what I most feel comfortable in. Denim and leather and diamonds. There's tons of diamonds, but you can't see the diamonds.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Lucky I've got a diamond. Denim.

[Honey Dijon]

The whole ear is a diamond situation.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

We were talking a minute ago about our love of Cher. Yeah, channeling that kind of. You're beautifully channeling some of her greatest look. My favorite era of Cher.

[Honey Dijon]

My favorite Cher image is by Norman Seff, and it's her in a black silk shirt with jeans. And that image just speaks to my soul. And so now with the availability of so many hair options, you can have your inner Cher every day, pretty much. But yeah, I mean, Cher, Diana Ross by Scavullo when she's wearing the Henley and Gia Carangis jeans. There's nothing sexier than a great pair of jeans. And it's the hardest things to find, actually. I find the simplest things are the hardest to find because it needs to really fit your body and it needs to really be lived in for it to have authenticity. So, you know, there's nothing better than a great ass and a pair of jeans as far as I'm concerned, too.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Right.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Well, you're one of the most successful DJs and producers in the world.

[Honey Dijon]

Oh, thank you.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

How was fashion growing up in your household? Who influenced you?

[Honey Dijon]

Well, like many. So I come from a pretty middle class African American family in Chicago. I was born and raised in Chicago. And, you know, a lot of my parents are post war, you know, grew up in the 60s and 70s. And like a lot of black people, when your humanity is stripped from you, you express it through dress. That's how you give yourself courage and self worth and you value yourself when you're being oppressed or marginalized. And so fashion was always in my house. You know, I read a lot of, you know, there was Ebony and Jett and if you know about Ebony, Fashion Fair and things like that. And so fashion and how you presented yourself was so important. It was where you communicated to the world. So that was my first introduction was through my family. My second introduction was through music. I was really fortunate enough to be born at the beginning of house music culture. And like a lot of subcultures, how you dress spoke to your tribe or the community that you wanted to be a part of. So I learned about a lot of fashion from going to clubs. Because you had so many different style codes in house music. You had the preppy and the punk and the new wave, but you also had, you know, the house dress code, which was riding boots and jodhpurs and some form of either Gianfranco foray or Versace sweater. And so you would bring all of these images. Kids would come to school with Vogue, and they would come to school with Luoma Vogue, and they would come to school with all of these high fashion magazines. And these were the codes that you use to speak to people in house music culture. So that was my first real introduction. Second introduction, besides my parents, was the community of househeads that I grew up in in Chicago. And we had a department store called Marshall Fields, and they used to have everyone from Willy Ware, Westwood, Gaultier, Montana. And so I used to go, I mean, of course I was broke. I mean, you know, I was a kid, I had no money. That was my connection to fashion and clothing. And fashion to me has never been about aspiration. It's always been about inspiration. And I was always inspired by album covers. And, you know, nothing was separate. And that's how I sort of have based my entire career. This intersectionality between music, fashion, nightclubbing, nightlife, sex, those were all intertwined for me. And so I would have to say that my introduction to music was through my family. And that vocabulary was expanded upon by my Peers and house music.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And you talked about album covers. What was the first one? What got into your.

[Honey Dijon]

The one that changed my life. And today that still I can sit and look at it. Nightclubbing by Grace Jones because it was art directed by Jean Paul Goode. So you get into that world of graphic design and image making. And then the jacket was Giorgio Armani. So you had that connection between fashion and music. And then the hair top was by the hairstylist Christiane. And so you have all of these things swirling. And so I, you know, I used to read the credits and listen to the music. And that album also changed my life because, you know, she covered Libertango, which is this beautiful song, and then La Vie En Rose by Ida Piaf, and then Night Clubbing by Iggy Pop. And so you see how all of these things, I'm starting to piece them together through that image. And so that was the first album cover for me that literally changed my life. And to today, she's my shaman and North Star.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I had that with. With Marvin Gaye, what's Going On? And I saw that when I was 5 or something and thought, this is just so. This is everything. It's so intense and distilled. I love what he's wearing, the Mac. He just looks so great. And it just went into my psyche. And album covers have been a big thing.

[Honey Dijon]

Well, music and fashion. I've always loved this quote by Malcolm McLaren. And it is the look of music and the sound of fashion that sums it up for me. That is like, the best thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh, that's wonderful. Because you talked about your love of the scene in the 70s and 80s, before your time, obviously.

[Honey Dijon]

But, I mean, I was on the planet, but I wasn't hanging out.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

What did you wear to your first. The first time you DJed? What was your look?

[Honey Dijon]

The first time I DJed. Wow. Well, okay. So the first time I consider myself a DJ was when I was 8. And now they call it a music selector. But my parents used to have basement parties, which was pretty normal in African American households. So they would have basement parties. And the first thing I wore when I djed were my pajamas because my mom and dad would let me play music before my bedtime at the beginning of their parties. And so that was like 8 or 9 o'clock. And then I would go to bed, but I would never go to sleep because if you know anything about basement parties, they become boisterous and loud. And the music and the laughter and the clanking of the glasses. And, like, you could smell the cigarette smoke coming up the stairs, wafting up the stairs. And I think that was when I fell in love with the joy and celebration and liberation of the party and the community and the communal spirit. Professionally. When I started DJing in New York, what did I wear? I think. So this is a true story. I've never told this story because I was so broke, but I had a Macy's credit card, and I was eligible for a Macy's credit card. So I used to go to Macy's and charge the clothes, wear them out, make sure the tags were still intact, where. Then dry clean them and return them, please. I hope no one still does that because I'm giving away my secret. But anyway, I used to go to Macy's and I was really. What was I into at the time? Let me really, like, think back to what I was into. I've always been a huge fan of Norma Kamali. So I think my first thing that I wore was Kamali that I charged. And then I took it back. You know, there was Barney's and then there was. So I had a Macy's card, then I got a Barney's charge card, and then that was. Forget it. That was game over. I think my dry cleaning cost me more than that. Outfits. I could have bought them eventually, but, you know, you had to always have a look in New York so you couldn't be caught dead in the same thing twice. Are you kidding? New York is brutal for that. That was the one. That's the one lesson that I took from New York about culture is like, now we live in a culture where we have social media and the Internet, right? And it's all about. I find it to be particularly. Everyone is speaking. Even though there's tribes, everyone's still speaking the same language. And it's been a flattening of individual style for me in a lot of ways. But one of the things about New York, you had to have something to contribute to the party. And you weren't popular because of how many likes you had. You were popular because you were unique. You had your own voice, and you contributed to the party by the way you dressed, how you talked, your sense of humor, if you could withstand shade or anything like that. I know you were going far away from what I wore when I first dj, but I digress. But anyway, but Kamali and. Yeah, and that's what I used to do.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

She's still going. And I used to wear Kamali as well. She really gave you a good Figure.

[Honey Dijon]

She gives everyone a good figure. Kamali is.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

She's incredible.

[Honey Dijon]

To me, she's one of the most. She should be in the pantheon with the greats because I mean, she's really done so many innovative things. Swimwear, dinner, denim, the sleeping bag coat, which by the way, the sleeping. She was dating Ian Schrager and she created that coat for Steve Rubell to stand outside to pick people to come in. So there's that history of the sleeping bag coat that she made for Steve. I've gotten to meet with her in the last couple of years and connect with her and I just love. It's so interesting when you talk to women designers or female identified designers because they take so much more into consideration about how women actually live and feel in clothes. And she's just the bathing suit and bathing suit is outerwear. You could wear a bathing suit to the club. I mean, so all of this, you know, we were talking earlier today about, you know, packing for travel and fashion. And I tell, you know, I wear body suits and jeans because as much as I love so many conceptual ideas, you know, I don't have the lifestyle to pack all of these things and luggages. You know, I have to. I'm normally in five cities in a weekend and different climates and I can't even wait for a bag. So I have to, you know, pack lightly. And I realize that a bodysuit can be dressed up or down. Jeans, a skirt, leather. I mean, you can get away with murder in a bodysuit. I think that's the one must have item. And it doesn't matter what gender you are, but you can get through life with a bodysuit. That's my two cents.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

That's a very good tip.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you think hang ups and insecurities about our bodies are catalysts for being inventive about coming up with a good look?

[Honey Dijon]

You know, I think that's a really interesting question because do you think the insecurities that I about our bodies, we come up with looks? Is that the question that you said?

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah, it's like sort of I've had so many insecurities about my body almost kind of eclipsing that I can see myself as a total person rather than a series of bits. And it's part of, I think maybe why I became a designer, because I. That was a way of acceptance. No, I don't think I'll ever have that, but a kind of way of handling it. And then also I sort of understood that if you have a good look going, it stops you or it can free you from being overly self conscious. So that's kind of what I'm thinking about.

[Honey Dijon]

So that sounds like liberation.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Liberation.

[Honey Dijon]

Well, you know, the things that I've come to realize is that, you know, I call myself fashion adjacent, basically. And I was terribly bullied as a kid, you know, a queer black kid on the south side of Chicago. And not really having formed my identity and trying on different expressions to find out who I am. And I think having a look sort of gives you courage to navigate the world. And it can also be a form of armor as well. Yeah, totally. I think we're so through advertising, especially Post World War II advertising, a lot of us are shamed if we're not a certain body type or if we don't have certain features or. And especially someone like myself, being a black trans woman of color, I've never had, I call it mirrors of affirmation. And so you can't see what you can't. You can't be what you can't see. And so I, for so many years tried to be so many different things because I wanted to be seen. And at the end of the day, I really realized that through a lot of trial and error, who was I dressing for? Was I dressing for the male gaze? Was I dressing for protection? Was I dressing for self expression? But I found out a lot of my insecurities were actually my strengths. The things that I were bullied for or laughed at or not accepted for were the things that made me unique. So I just decided to put a fucking gold star on it. And also your insecurities shift. Your body shifts, your taste shifts, your eye shifts. What I liked five years ago, I wouldn't be caught dead in. I've also learned to edit. The longer I walk the planet, it seems the more clarity I have of my shifts, if that makes sense.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It does make sense because you said a lot of beautiful things come from oppression and resistance.

[Honey Dijon]

Yes.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

What have been your. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger moments.

[Honey Dijon]

That's a very layered question because there's so many intersectionalities that I navigate on a daily basis. And walking out my front door is a form of protest, no matter what I'm wearing. But, you know, being oppressed for race or gender or sexual orientation. And so I realized that I wasn't going to make everybody happy. I couldn't make everybody happy. So the only person that I could make happy was myself. And to focus on that love affair and focus on that energy because someone's not gonna like me because the color of my skin. Someone's not gonna like me because of my gender. Someone's not gonna like the music I play on a certain night. And another thing too, being in romantic relationships. And I think we do all of these things to attract the right partner or to, you know, someone to like us or whatever. And I realized that people fall out of love with you. People's attitude towards you change. And the only person that you should be getting dressed for or the jurist dressing, is for yourself. And if someone else likes it, great. I love this quote from Paris is Burning. If you shoot an arrow and it goes real high, hooray for you.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Because you also talked about the Artist's way, the self.

[Honey Dijon]

Oh, I love the Artist's way. Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And I wonder who introduced you to that.

[Honey Dijon]

Who introduced me to that was my friends that were into the leather community in New York and they did sex work.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh, really?

[Honey Dijon]

Honey, wait till the book comes out. I have so many New York stories. And I love my sex worker friends. They're like, I learned the most valuable lessons about life and sex through my sex worker friends. And so they turned me into two books. The Artist's Way and the Four Agreements. Oh, yeah, the Four Agreements is another great.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I read some of that because I. I saw it in a gangster film where one of the gangsters was saying, I can't do this because in the Four Agreements.

[Honey Dijon]

Exactly.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you remember that? It was so funny. But with the Artist's Way, what was your favorite exercise?

[Honey Dijon]

Three pages of journaling every morning. And I still do it to this day.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you?

[Honey Dijon]

I still journal, I still journal. I don't feel like my day is complete without me writing down dreams, hopes, fears, insecurities, but also documenting my life. And I'll go back to those journals. And I realized, you know, it's great to see how far I've come. It's also areas that I still. My blind spots that I still need working on. And it's a documentation of me for me. So I still write my three. I have a couple of journals. I have my creative journals about ideas, and then I have the Artist's Way journal where I write my three pages every day. And I combine that with the Four Agreements. I think the hardest thing about the Four Agreements is not to take anything personal because it's not about you. But also be careful with your word because words are very powerful and we're all language into experience. And so, yeah, I love the artist's wear. I recommend this is not a plug. I'm not getting A kickback. But the four agreements and the artistwear are the two books you should definitely have. And by the way, never fuck anyone that doesn't have books in their house.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Good tip.

[Honey Dijon]

That, to me is a deal breaker.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I used to like in. In the artist's way, the. The artist date when you went to see something on your own and kind of, you know, just had to concentrate and focus and be connected to some kind of creative thing. Yeah, it was a really good lesson.

[Honey Dijon]

It's a great lesson.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I loved it.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I'm so interested that it was sex workers who were practicing the artist where it's like just such a wonderful.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah, Well, I find, you know, there's a lot of argument about how soul culture doesn't exist anymore because of the Internet. Right. That we're all so globally connected and. But I was recently. I went to Folsom Street Fair last year. And I have to say, the last frontier for me of subculture is body autonomy, the trans community. Gender is the last frontier because people are mixing up ways of dressing and expressing body autonomy and the kink community. I mean, you know, there's a lot of great style ideas with body modification and sexual expression and leather and fur and latex and just how people dress to express themselves sexually. But it's also liberating. So I'm all about. And especially a lot what people aren't talking about are trans women and how that has had such a powerful influence on culture, especially the body modification. Big asses and the big tits and the lips and the hair and the nails and all of that was super. And when you did sex work was this hyper sexualized version of femininity. Sometimes I like to call it toxic femininity, just like you have toxic masculinity. But this super pumped up version of femininity and you know, that went from transex workers to the strip club, which is also a form of sex work. And that influenced hip hop culture and hip hop culture in Florida. Rap culture, Rap culture is now mainstream. And so there's this lineage of that going on. And literally what happens in the street always ends up on the Runway in some form or another through nail culture and lace fronts and all the things that we're doing now. I mean, you know, I'm really great friends with, you know, Amanda Lepore, and you know, 20 years ago, that was a radical thing. And now she's like, that's the nail tech at the salon, that's the grocery store. I mean, that's just. That's just so normalized. Or even Pete Burns was so ahead of the curve. You know, that's. You know, that has influenced culture today. And so there's so much intersectionality between sex work and pop culture and trans culture and queer culture. None of it is separate.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It's interesting what you were saying about how the kink culture is coming into and all. Like, the things I really like are those pet masks and the ears.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And there's this brand called Fleet Ilia. Have you ever?

[Honey Dijon]

I love Fleet Iliad.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It's so gorgeous.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah, it's amazing. She's amazing. I mean, Fleet Ilia is incredible. And she's been doing that for so long.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It's really, really elegant. I mean, it's just the most beautifully designed. I'm dying for one of those ears things.

[Honey Dijon]

I mean, they're so great. I mean, there's no difference between, I guess, pup play and Berlin. I saw a lot of Pup play in Berlin.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It's very cute seeing people do that.

[Honey Dijon]

You know, why not? I love the Diana Vreeland quote. Why not?

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah, she was. She certainly got it.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And you described walking into a club in New York for the first time and another trans woman saying to you, you belong in a skirt.

[Honey Dijon]

Yes.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And what happened with your wardrobe after that moment? I mean, such a big, amazing deal.

[Honey Dijon]

What wardrobe? I was broke. I didn't have a wardrobe. I had clothes, but I did not not have a wardrobe. I like a lot of people in. When I first moved to New York, this is a true story. So before, I've always been a dj, but there's been a life lived before, honey. Dijon. Okay. You know, I worked. I was a hotel phone operator. I got fired from that job because, well, I was always late because I worked the midnight shift. And I worked the midnight shift specifically so I could club, so it wouldn't change my algorithm. But I was always, like, every job I had. I'm a disaster in corporate environment. So I got fired. And so then I took the money that I had, they gave me severance pay, and I moved to Washington, D.C. for a year. And I lived in D.C. for a year. And I used to manage the mental health benefits for the city's employee. Can you believe it? It was mental health. So what that means is I used to negotiate inpatient and outpatient rates for people of the city of D.C. and I used to take the Greyhound bus up to New York City. 40 bucks each way, because I was broke. And I used to sleep on a friend's floor. And best days of my life, I Wouldn't change the four world. And that was my introduction into New York. And like a lot of trans women, I was a drag artist before I transitioned. And so when I was performing, I walked into a club and my community saw me before I saw myself. And what that meant was, you belong on a skirt. Was basically saying, you're one of us, and we see you and we love you and we appreciate you. And back then, before we had all the trans visibility that we have today. You know, just think, it's only been 10 years since Laverne Cox was on the COVID of Time magazine. The Tipping Point. And I've known Laverne for years. You know, we came up in New York. You know, we all went to Stingy Lulu's and Patricia Fields and Lucky Chang's, and so it was still pretty underground. And the girls told you where to go get your first shot, where to go in Mexico to get your surgeries. Because then, unlike today, where there's all of these practitioners that do all the facial feminization surgeries and all the trans confirmation surgeries, I'm literally Frankenstein, because you would try to find people or health practitioners that weren't transphobic, because there was a lot of transphobia in the medical world. And so my community really saw me and helped me. And there was also this place called Lee's Mardi Gras in the meatpacking district, which is now Gucci, on the corner of 14th and 13th and Washington. Girl, we could go this part. You sure? It's only an hour. I could, like. I have stories. These Mardi Gras was, you know, it was where you went to get things. And so they were. My sisters told me where to go, what to do, how to do it, and they saw me, and that was the beginning of me becoming. You know, I know this might be a controversial thing. I think, you know, the word transition is kind of controversial for me because we're all in transition. None of us stay stagnant in life. So I always like to say, walking into your truth.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Right? Yeah.

[Honey Dijon]

And so I think for all of us, walking into our truths is the most important thing that we can do. And so when my community saw me, that was the beginning of me getting a wardrobe.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Must have been such an exciting moment, like just to be almost an ingenue and someone seeing you like that and telling you something and then having this. This kind of epiphany.

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah, awakening. Yeah, it was. It was. It was great. And so that's when I started to.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you remember what sample sales you.

[Honey Dijon]

Got sample sales, sales, sample sales friends. And I was really lucky because, you know, how I got into fashion was through music and through DJing. And at that time in New York, you know, you know, it was so many fashion designers went to clubs that I played at. And I started DJing with Visionaires Stephen Gann and Cecilia Dean and James Killiardos. And they used to invite me to DJ the Visionary events. And then, you know, I became really great friends with Narciso Rodriguez and he would invite me to DJ his events, and then I would sort of do CFDA Awards. And then I met Kim Jones in New York through the designer Andre Walker. And that was the beginning of my relationship with Kim. And we all know that he's gone on to do some incredible things with Louis Vuitton and Dior. And so he invited me to start working on the soundtracks with him. And then Ricardo Tisci invited me to DJ his after parties when he was at Givenchy. And so club culture for me has never been about entertainment. It's always been about a laboratory of creative exchange and ideas and community, creative communities through art, music and fashion. And so that was how I sort of became a part of the fashion world, was through these incredible people.

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[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you find there are certain clothes that make you feel better when you're feeling down? Is there anything really? Yeah, because I really have that.

[Honey Dijon]

So leather. I always feel gray. If I have. So another one of my style icons is Keith Haring. You know, I love the high top, the high tops and the baggy jeans and the big leather jacket. So I sort of. I'm a bit of a tomboy in how I dress, which a lot of my trans Sisters will probably want to kill me for. It's nice, but I don't think there's one way. I think there's a lot of. I don't shy away from the masculine sides of myself. And I think it's a part of the whole. And I think women can be. There's not one way to be a woman, and there's not one way to be a trans woman. And I think I embrace all of it and I don't want to erase my past. And it's part of who I am and I accept all of it. And so what makes me. When I'm down, there's nothing that feels better than like a big oversized leather jacket and a pair of jeans and a pair of high tops. Lately I've been wearing. Before they were Nike high tops. What I love is a Belmurant high tops. And so I just pair that with a pair of paggy jeans and my jean of choice. They no longer exist, but I try to find vintage ones or Jerbos Maritime and Francois jabot from the 80s. I love that 80s balloon shape.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah.

[Honey Dijon]

And I love sort of like oversized vintage Avorex leather jackets. I always love that hint of New York Street. So I always go to Orchard street and try to find these sort of 80s blouson oversized leather jackets and a bodysuit in vasta and a piece of gold jewelry and diamonds. Did I say diamonds? If anyone is listening to this, I like diamonds. But also what really lifts my spirits, what I wear every day is perfume. Oh, that's so interesting. And I think I wear perfume to bed. I have pillow scents, room scents, incense. I have six different candles going at the same time. And I think wearing perfume is probably one of the most. I have oils and it's the one thing, if I'm feeling down, I take a scented bath with like, Santa Maria Novella has this really great rose bath oil. Because for me, style is not what you wear, it's how you live. And so clothing is just another part of that. And so what lifts my spirits is perfume and a really nice pair of underwear.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh, really? Do you like good underwear?

[Honey Dijon]

Oh, my God. My mother would. You know, that's another thing. If I'm in a car crash, the underwear is on point. But a great pair of leather pants and underwear and perfume makes me feel really good. Also with the high tops and the baggy jeans and the.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I think that's a great mix, the kind of tomboy with the great underwear. I mean, it's just couldn't. Can't be Better, really?

[Honey Dijon]

I love underwear. I really love, like, really great, sheer, see through, nasty underwear. A pair of old, nasty, sheer, sexy underpants.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you ever go to Yasmine Aslami in Paris? She does like GI border sheer, amazing colors.

[Honey Dijon]

I mean, I quite like Asian provocateur makes really sexy underwear. I like keyhole underwear with a little heart in the back, just in case. I'll let your imagination go where you went with that one. And crotchless underwear is always a vibe.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh, wow. Do you have a favorite makeup artist? Because you're big on your. You just come from Selfridges and you said you bought all sorts of great stuff, and I wondered who you liked the most.

[Honey Dijon]

I have so many favorite makeup artists. I'm sort of a skin person, more of a makeup person. Like, I love skin. I'm obsessed with skin. I spend more money on skin, so I don't have to wear makeup. But I love so many different makeup artists. You know, Pat McGrath is a genius, but I also love Way Bandy. And there was an artist called Topolino.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh, Topolina was incredible.

[Honey Dijon]

Topolina was genius.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah.

[Honey Dijon]

I also loved Linda Mason.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I don't know Linda Mason.

[Honey Dijon]

Linda Mason. She. She's incredible. She did a lot of makeup for one of my favorite fashion designers, Stephen Sprouse.

[Advertisement Voiceover]

Oh, God.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I met. I used to know Stephen Sprouse.

[Honey Dijon]

Julian Deese, but I think Julian Diest does hair.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

He's a hair.

[Honey Dijon]

He does hair. Francois Nars is an incredible artist. Those would be my favorite. There's, you know, I can't say there's just one, but there's a few.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And whose look are you loving at the moment?

[Honey Dijon]

Whose look am I loving at the moment? Wow. Which moment that moment shifts?

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Who springs into your mind right now? I know we've talked about already.

[Honey Dijon]

Look. Well, the person that I'm loving the most at the moment is Dochi.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh, yes.

[Honey Dijon]

I'm so inspired by everything she is and what she stands for. Her music, her voice. Dochi, for me right now is just turning it out. But I also love Moalola. I just love the girl that she presents. This unapologetically fierce female black girl I love. But I would always say, oh, my God, who is my style icon? You can't do that to me. It's impossible to do that to me. Whose look of my loving at the moment? Dochi? A Lauren Hutton in an Avedon photo with a bucket hat. But my favorite movie of all time for looks, American Gigolo and actually the Lauren Bag Ortega Veneta. Because she's carrying a Bottega Veneta bag in that movie.

[Advertisement Voiceover]

Is she?

[Honey Dijon]

And they actually named a bag called Lauren after her from that character in the movie.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah, yeah. And if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction to them?

[Honey Dijon]

I make them take it off.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Really?

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah. You can, you can change a person's style, but you can't change a person's personality.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

No.

[Honey Dijon]

So choose your battles. If someone you know, it depends on the body and the clothes. It depends on the laughter because I often find what bad taste can become fashionable. It's no taste that turns me off when something is like no taste. When it's just like shapeless, nothing going on there. But my. So that's a case by case scenario.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I think that's a very diplomatic approach.

[Honey Dijon]

Yes. Clothes come off, personalities don't.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah. Also, as soon as you have a kind of blanket rule, it always changes. And, and then it's so restrictive having a blanket rule about anything. So sometimes it is literally like, it's like eating something you don't like, your appetite disappears and you just have to leave or have to.

[Honey Dijon]

But also I've tasted things before that I didn't like and learned to love them.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah.

[Honey Dijon]

I'll just leave it at that. But also, I think like with most, I don't want to generalize, but I think most women have to build the version of the partner they want to be with. You know, besides, you know, like I said to you earlier, I've been the interior decorator, the stylist, the psychiatrist, the maid, the chef, the sex worker. I've been. That's what normally happens. But does that change? I also think if someone's style that I'm attracted to is off putting, I try to zoom in on the part that I don't like and question what it is about that part that I don't like because that's more reflection about me than them.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yeah.

[Honey Dijon]

And so it's true, actually it's a.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Really good point because it's about sort of self reflected self consciousness, isn't it? It's like it reminds you of something that you feel shape or speaking for myself, some sort of mortification about myself that I'm projecting onto them. And then somehow I'm making a lot of difficulty where maybe there isn't any.

[Honey Dijon]

And also those 3am goggles can make a big difference when the lights come up. When the lights are, I was like, oh, oh. And I've. And I've lived in cities where there have been complete beauties, like beauties with the worst style. And it's just like, well, I can change the look, but not, you know, so it's case by case. Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

And you've been quoted as saying, designer bags can change lives. And I wondered what you meant by that.

[Honey Dijon]

What did I say?

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

You said designer bags can change lives.

[Honey Dijon]

Designer bags can change lives. Well, it could make you poor. The whisper these days. I can't believe I said designer bags could change lives. I probably should have said designer shoes can change lives.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I was wondering because I read that you'd, when you came home with designer bags, your mother started saying, well, maybe this DJ job is actually a good job. And I wondered if it was that.

[Honey Dijon]

Okay, well, that was status signaling.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Right?

[Honey Dijon]

Okay, so what I meant by that. So, you know, my parents didn't think DJing was a real job. You know, it was like, you know, especially when I was struggling on the come up, right. Complaining about, you know, you know, because as an up and coming dj, it's not glamorous. You know, there have been times when I wasn't paid at the end of the night or I had to chase my fees or, you know, there are many times when I didn't know how I was going to pay the rent or whatever. And so when things started to shift for me and I was able to have these sort of status things, you know, it's like, oh, so you're doing okay. So sometimes these status symbols can change the perception of you and your success. So in that way. And sometimes, you know, at the airport, if you have that bag, you know, they don't ask you what class you're sitting in or it's so true. You know what I mean? Or like, you know, when you go, when you go shopping, it's like, oh, people treat you a certain way. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, it doesn't really make a difference on the, on the person inside, but sometimes it's nice to have that flex, like, yes, bitch. Correct. This is absolutely right. You should speak to me this way. And yes, mom, I did. Okay, so it can change lives.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Sometimes it's hard for people to recognize whether someone has money or not by threatening today is world now and then. So those are good indicators, aren't they?

[Honey Dijon]

Yes, that's a good, that's a good status signal. The bag and the shoe and the coat. I also find if you have on a really nice pair of sunglasses and a really expensive bag that can also.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Oh my God, you've Got so many things in your.

[Honey Dijon]

Honey. I travel for a living. I know how this works. I know how to get the girls to give me what I need when I need it. So. Yeah.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Do you have a favorite bag at the moment?

[Honey Dijon]

You know, I have a couple of favorite bags at the moment, but I've been buying a lot of vintage Balenciaga Nicola Ghesquier bags from the early 2000s. So those are my favorite ones at the moment with the tassels. You know, I have the corduroy satchel bags. I love those. So my favorite bags at the moment are my early and probably shouldn't be. They're really quite hard to find. So I don't mind telling people, but that's my favorite bag. I love my vintage Coach bags from the 70s. I love, you know, I really like clothing connected to culture and specific periods of time. So I usually try to buy bags connected to a certain design era that I like or a certain moment that I like. But I would have to say in my early 2000.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I do love a suede bag. I think it's just kind of having a suede bag and a suede. I just love that. That throwback to that 70s thing. I just find it so disarming. And you don't see so much suede.

[Honey Dijon]

Anymore, but, no, you don't see much suede. And I love my. And I love my Carlos Fauci bags, which was a mixture of, like leather and snakeskin and suede. So I. I normally look for things like that. But, you know, I have my. I have my bag bags. Someone I travel with that, you know, let the girls know what time it is. You know, I have some really. I have, you know, some Chanel's and some things, you know, when I have to pull out the big guns. Kim Jones has been very generous with me with some really lovely Fendi bags and Dior bags. And, you know, you know, I have my looks.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

You also have this incredible language. You're so witty and high classy. And I wondered, do you read a lot? You know, have you always had to read a lot?

[Honey Dijon]

Yeah, but also it comes from, you know, social mobility, just being able to move in so many different social circles.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

When I met you for the first time, we were just like hanging around outside. A Dior thing.

[Honey Dijon]

Yes, the Dior thing. Right, at the Dior for Kim.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Right. And you were so, like, devastatingly witty. And I just felt completely. I have to know more about you. I have to hear you talk for a long time. And it was. It's just a thing I find utterly disarming. And you're just wit. And your scope and your swiftness was fantastic.

[Honey Dijon]

And well, that comes from having to, you know, live on the streets in New York. Like I said, in order to make yourself be seen or heard in New York, you had to have a witty repartee or you had to have a sense of humor or, you know, if you want to seduce me, having a sense of sarcasm and wit will get you a long way. Fuck the clothes if you can make me laugh and have something funny to say. But I love language. I love words. I love the words of the street. I love proper English. I love. One of my favorite people to hear talk is Charlie Porter because he always talks about humans. But I love the Queen's English and I love the language of trans women. I just love self expression through language. But I also know how to cut a bitch really quickly if need be. With what I have with the tongue. I'm really comfortable with who I am. And I don't switch, I don't code switch. I'm the same person I could speak to the president of a company as I can speak to anyone, you know, in the hood, you know, or urban settings, as they say, because the hood can come across a little racist or urban settings.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It's so bland, though, urban settings.

[Honey Dijon]

What?

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

It's so bland, that term compared to.

[Honey Dijon]

Like the street, the vine, bloody blind. But I. I just love language and I love words and I love people and I love talking shit. No one talks shit and no one kikis. Well, my people, my friend, do. But I love a good carry, as they say, for those that you don't know what carry means. A good carrying on and a good laughter. A good carry and a good kiki.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

The code of language is so intriguing.

[Honey Dijon]

The language is subculture.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

What I wanted to ask you about is your new collection called Honey Fucking Dijon.

[Honey Dijon]

Honey Fucking Dijon? Yes.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

With Dover Street Market.

[Honey Dijon]

With Dover Street Market, Paris.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Yes. Can you give me any insights about. Well, is it clothes, accessories, Is it any clues?

[Honey Dijon]

I'm basically using clothing to communicate culture. What I like to celebrate and what I saw that was missing was a celebration of. Of like I said earlier in the conversation, was how I discovered fashion was through community and subculture. So I wanted to use clothing. I love the blank canvas of a T shirt. I love the blank canvas of a scarf. I love how people dress in clubs. I love the mix of tailoring and activewear. I wanted to use the flyers, the music, the colors of house music. Culture of queer culture of trans culture of things that weren't so binary or aspirational, but more inspirational. And it was a vehicle for me to express my experience, life in clubs and music. And I've gotten to do that. And Dover Street Market has helped me facilitate that vision. And I've gotten to work with the archive of Keith Haring and Jean Michel Basquiat and Robert Mapplethorpe. And I've used the work that was mostly related to their relationships, to music and clubbing and sex. And so that's what Honey fucking Dijon is. It's basically a celebration. And using clothing as a communication of that culture that I loved and come from sounds amazing. Non gender specific, actually. Like it's multi gender, whatever that means. But it's for anybody that connects through that, through clubs and music. And so I find a lot of. In fashion, there's so much cosplay going on. And so I wanted to put the people that I actually, if all the clothing that I shine on are from my community and from clubs. And I really wanted to celebrate those people and not in a performative way, but in a real celebratory way. And all of these people and you know, like I said, my favorite time is from 1969 to 1981. Well, my favorite time in New York was the late 70s and the early 80s and when all of these worlds collided. And so I was just basically wanted to celebrate that time not in a nostalgic way, but in a critical way that speaks to now and speaks to the kids today. And so that's what Honey fucking Dijon is.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Sounds good. Great. I mean, will it be. Will it be ongoing or is it.

[Honey Dijon]

I took a pause because post Pandemic, I really needed to recalibrate and refigure what that was and what it is. And now I'm going to restart it again. And I have some exciting, exciting, exciting collaborations coming up. I don't want to spill the tea so some other child can come and snatch the ip. We're going to keep it low, but yeah, there's some exciting things. It's gonna start again very, very, very soon. And I'm really excited to do that. You know, she's a multi hyphenate, this one. Laying on your sofa.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Gosh. There was one other expression that you used that I really love when you said keep your shit Gucci.

[Honey Dijon]

Keep your say Gucci.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

I loved that. And is, does that ever change? Does it ever stop being Gucci? Or does it become balanced? Or does it like keep it one.

[Honey Dijon]

Keep it one. I love it. You know, No, I think there's this word authenticity that is thrown around so much. It's also, you know, like, another word like that is thrown. Like, legendary is thrown around so easily these days. But I just want to keep it honest. I think that's the word, honest. So keeping it Gucci is keeping it honest and real and true to you and inviting people along for your ride. I mean, everything that I do is just a proposition, not a dictate. So it's just I'm sharing things that I find exciting, and I'm inviting you to share in that excitement with me. Well, as simple as that.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Keeping your shit, honey.

[Honey Dijon]

Fucking 100% Gucci.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Well, thank you so much.

[Honey Dijon]

You're so welcome. I feel like there's so much we can talk about. Like, I'm just, you know, I want.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

To come to your house and look at you.

[Honey Dijon]

Oh, my God. You have to come to my archive. I'm building a library in London. I have an archive.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

So you're staying here for a bit?

[Honey Dijon]

I'm staying here. Well, have you seen what's happening? I'm staying here for a bit.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Okay.

[Honey Dijon]

But, yeah, I'm staying here for a bit. London feels home, and we're going to keep it 100% Gucci up in here.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Great. Well, thank you so much for being on Fashion Neurosis. It's been such a pleasure.

[Honey Dijon]

Thank you. Peace.

[Fashion Neurosis Host]

Sa.