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- [00:01]
Julianne Moore
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- [01:09]
Bella Hadid
Hi.
- [01:10]
Julianne Moore
Come in.
- [01:16]
Bella Hadid
Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Julianne Moore.
- [01:19]
Julianne Moore
Hi.
- [01:20]
Bella Hadid
Can you tell me what clothes you're wearing today and why you chose them?
- [01:25]
Julianne Moore
Well, I'd like to say that I didn't think at all about what I was going to wear, but that's not true. I thought about it because I thought about. Thought about what your couch looked like, and I had another choice. I had sort of an ivory, kind of a boucle like, sweater. And then I realized that your sofa was like an ivory boucle, and I would just look like a floating head. So I thought, so I'm wearing a black Bottega Veneta sweater dress that I knew wouldn't be too overwhelming on the couch. I thought a lot about your location when I chose this.
- [02:10]
Bella Hadid
I was very excited to see you wearing black because I'm wearing black, too. And partly because I've just come back from Paris and I'm so tired, and I just wanted to disappear into the color black. And. And you seem illuminated within the color black. And that's such a nice thing to say.
- [02:33]
Julianne Moore
I love black. I love black. I like ivory. I like gray. I like navy. I like things that are. I find it soothing. I'm challenged by color. I like to look at it, but I sometimes get overstimulated by it, so I'm trying to allow myself to be soothed.
- [03:01]
Bella Hadid
That's so interesting, because I suppose it's unusually that I think of you with color because of the beautiful color of your hair, and you have the colors that roses have in them. There's this incredible subtle prettiness and then to see you in black, it. It's really an exciting contrast and interesting to hear how you feel about color and these kind of muted colors like grey, that. That you kind of bring them to life with your coloring.
- [03:39]
Julianne Moore
What a nice thing to say. My God, I should come here all the time. I. It's funny that you said that about my hair. I think that, you know, I've never really liked having red hair. Like, if I could choose, I'd want to have dark hair like you. I always liked dark hair. But then, of course, I realized as I became an adult that I can choose. If I wanted to, I could change my hair color, but I don't. So I sort of wonder about that. I think even the times that I've done it, I've done a job where I had to dye my hair, which is infrequent, but I've done it a couple of times when I haven't worn a wig. The minute the job's over, I change it back. So even though I'm not crazy about it and that I would have chosen something else if I'd been given an opportunity, I also choose not to. So I think that that's interesting and I don't know. I don't know why, except that I'm identified with something that I don't particularly love.
- [04:49]
Bella Hadid
It's odd that the way those things change, isn't it? That the things that have been conflicting suddenly become your allies in an odd way. I mean, I've got millions of them of self criticisms, but now I'm quite attached to the things that I found so, you know, just devastating when I was. When I was younger, but.
- [05:18]
Julianne Moore
Right.
- [05:19]
Bella Hadid
I was going to ask you, actually, if. When a director asks you to change your hair color for the character, do you think, come on, you know, I don't need to be blonde or dark to do this. I can do this. Or is it just part of the way you work backwards from a.
- [05:39]
Julianne Moore
It's very much part of it. I don't have any issue with changing my physicality for a job. In fact, I feel like that's part of it. I think that my, you know, I'm really good at looking at things from the outside. And I think that who we are, how we dress, the color of our hair, what we present to the world, all of these things are signifiers of who we are or how we want to be perceived. So when I'm working on a character, I think about that. I'm like, who is this person? Where does she Live. What are her cultural references? What are her interests? What is she trying to communicate? I think about that a lot. And so if a director says to me, I see this character as X, as long as we're kind of in accord, I'm happy to do it. I mean, even in the case like with. With Todd Haynes and Far From Heaven, he had written the character as a redhead. Cause he wrote it for me. And I was like, I don't think she's a redhead, Todd. I think she's an all American blonde. I said, I want her right in the center of that American narrative. I don't want her to be in any way marginal. And he was like, okay. You know. And so we ended up going with a blonde wig. So I don't. I like that when I'm working on a character, I think I probably, oddly, have a harder time defining myself, like, in my own life, because I can't get. I can't get outside of myself in the way that I want to. You know, you're always inside. It's like I can't even look at my physical self the way I can an object or a room. There's always something in the way. But what you said before about the things that you don't like, in a way, it's like incorporating boundaries. Like, you decide, well, this is just it. So it can also give you some relief. It's like, well, this is just it. This is my physicality. And if you kind of accept that, then it becomes. Then you're like, well, easier, I guess.
- [07:49]
Bella Hadid
And have you always felt like that? Because it's taken me my whole life to feel like that. And it's so liber. I love it now.
- [07:57]
Julianne Moore
Yeah, I think it does have to do with age and experience. And also, I don't know. There is that. Yeah, I do love it, too. I think there is. Like I said, like, I now have the knowledge that if I wanted to change my hair color, I could. And yet I sort of stay there. So, yeah, I think I've been liberated by time, I guess. Yeah.
- [08:23]
Bella Hadid
And you're an actor who's universally loved as believable and moving in your roles and your ability to peel back the artifice is second to none. And I wondered what the phrase fashion neurosis made you think of.
- [08:42]
Julianne Moore
Well, you know, it's interesting because I think what I was just saying about that the inability to get outside your own self. Right. Like a neurotic is someone who's very. Or neurosis. You're sort of wrapped up in your feelings, in your own nervous system. And it's like. It can almost be like a trap. And so I think that. I think that with fashion neurosis, it can be the same sort of thing, like, why can't I. Why can't I escape this thing? Or why do I feel like I have to be defined by this? Or why do I keep going toward this one thing? Or what does that say about me? I think that's what's so wonderful about this podcast is that people are talking about what makes them feel like themselves and what they struggle with. And it's all kind of. It's inside and outside at the same time, which is wonderful.
- [09:42]
Bella Hadid
What was the first piece of clothing you became obsessed with as a child?
- [09:47]
Julianne Moore
Mmm. I'm so glad you asked that. I had a dress. It was brown, and it was so beautiful. I was eight, I think, and it was brown. It was like a sort of a poplin and had a sash and, like, white smocking and a white collar. Oh, it was so beautiful. Loved it. I don't know what it was for. It was like my special dress, you know, I was supposed to wear it, I think, when we went to church or wear it like, you know, on a holiday or something. But it felt really good to wear. And I remember I would wear it on special occasions and we used to go to. My parents were. My dad was a student. He was going to law school at the time. My parents didn't have a lot of money, and so they would take us for teeth checkups to get the dentist to it. To a dental college. So that meant the people who were cleaning our teeth and examining us were very, very young. And so I had a big crush on the guy that was my dentist. And he was probably. I mean, looking back, I realized he must have been 22, 23. But I wore my special dress, you know, so nice. Wore my brown dress. And like I said, the sash was very. Had this mocking. But he liked me too, because I'm just like a little girl. So I was so excited to see him, but he picked me up and because my dress was so full, I was absolutely humiliated because I realized that everybody could see my underpants. But so I had this. You know, I had all these romantic feelings for this dentist, and I wore my special dress, but he just. Of course, I was just a little girl. But I can't believe that I remembered that. Actually, it's.
- [11:44]
Bella Hadid
Yeah, I can. It's a really definable moment, isn't it? That moment of shame. Any Shame moments have really. They just like, go into your DNA.
- [11:55]
Julianne Moore
I was trying to be so glamorous in my brown dress.
- [11:58]
Bella Hadid
Oh, yeah. You give the impression of having confidence in your body and it behaving well for you. And I wondered how your transition from girl to woman. How was that for you?
- [12:12]
Julianne Moore
Huh? I think that I don't. I have a lot of. And this is probably another thing about being an adult too, and having lived with your body for a long time. I have a lot of appreciation for my body. I have a lot of gratitude for how well it's functioned over the years. It's. There were things I think I felt when I was younger about, like being really pale and having a lot of freckles and, you know, once again, about my coloring and being. And being thin and not feeling, you know, particularly, I don't know, womanly. But all those things sort of have disappeared because I feel like I've always been able to walk really fast.
- [13:01]
Bella Hadid
Such Good.
- [13:01]
Julianne Moore
Yeah, Right. My view, my body responds well physically. If I have to learn something my body's able to do. Doesn't. Has it really failed me even. Even in terms of like, being sick, I heal quickly, so I have a lot of appreciation for everything that it's done. And I would. I'd feel like, you know, like we were saying before, I think I got attached. I think I'm super attached to it now.
- [13:38]
Bella Hadid
That's great. Yeah. It's really is like a. Such an ally when it is allowed to be a friend instead of a failing system, which was. Yeah, I viewed it for so long.
- [13:53]
Julianne Moore
And I think because I never was a person who was defined by my body, you know, I never really thought about it. It was never like. I think for some women, and young women in particular, I see it happening because I have a daughter who's 22. I have a son who's 27. And I think that you can see with girls, like, suddenly, oh, it's like so and so has an amazing body or this. That becomes some sort of defining characteristic. And because that wasn't the case with me, it was just. I just appreciated the fact that I could walk quickly. Then it stayed. It just feels okay. It feels good.
- [14:35]
Bella Hadid
Because you talk about in your childhood traveling a lot and moving a lot and how you kind of scoped out the other kids and watched how they danced and how they talked. I wondered if your survival mode is blending in or being different.
- [14:53]
Julianne Moore
Blending in. God, I love to blend in. I was thinking about that with fashion too, because people talk about this is so interesting, because this has happened recently in lots of interviews where they'll talk to someone, someone who's particularly good on the red carpet, say. And she might say, I think of fashion as armor. I go out there and I am. You know, I'm wearing this armor, and I'm like, wow, Wow. I don't. If I were in kind of a big gown with, like, a lot going on and a headdress and this and that, I would be like, no, no, no, no. This doesn't feel like armor to me. This feels like, you know, here I am, you know, So I don't feel. I don't feel protected by that kind of fashion. I don't feel protected by standing out or looking different or I feel really comforted. You know, if I'm in a black sweater, I feel really good. If I'm able to go into a situation, I think, certainly, like I did as a kid and understand that everybody here was a certain kind of corduroy pant. And everybody here wears a. You know, where it's a puffer that's like this, or these are the kind of sneakers you're supposed to wear, or. I wanted very much wanted to do that. Yeah. Not even having, like, a uniform. People talk about having a personal uniform, but I think about literally, what is the uniform. Yeah, I think that can be very satisfying.
- [16:33]
Bella Hadid
And was your mother supportive about making sure you had these things that mattered so much?
- [16:39]
Julianne Moore
Yeah, I think that there was probably less emphasis, I think, put on those things, like, certainly when I was growing up, than I saw with my own children. But, yeah, my mother was someone who had great aesthetics. She really understood things that were what was beautiful or what was attractive or what made you feel good. And she would give us. As we got older, I remember we would get a little bit of money to buy school clothes, you know, and we could shop ourselves. It was like we could choose it ourselves. And my sister was the kind of person who would take that money and go to a store and buy a million different things, and I would go and I'd buy a skirt and a pair of shoes. You know, it was like we were both really specific about what we liked, and she. She allowed it. You know, she was. She was very supportive.
- [17:37]
Bella Hadid
God, that's so nice. I think that really helps with your learning. What suits you to have that kind of backup. And given how much you've had to move around in your upbringing, I wondered if you're a heavy packer or a light packer. Wow.
- [17:57]
Julianne Moore
We struggle, don't we all Struggle, we all struggle so much. Packing. I'm a nervous packer. I'm an anxious packer. I think packing, you know, as, as it becomes imminent, as it's on my horizon, I start to really, really worry as if it were, you know, a task that I wouldn't be able to complete.
- [18:21]
Bella Hadid
I, I'm exactly the same.
- [18:25]
Julianne Moore
Yeah, right.
- [18:26]
Bella Hadid
I mean, does my head in completely. Why then I take everything. That's my solution.
- [18:32]
Julianne Moore
I'm, I'm not, I don't take everything, but I bring too much of one thing. Like when I came here, I am only here for three days and I think I brought five sweaters. Five really, really similar, really, really similar sweaters. You know, so I'll do that and then I'll go in and I'll realize that I, that I'm, I'm short on socks or something. And this is, this is a pretty, you know, I love those lists of what people pack and you know why they. Somebody says, I always bring a pair of white jeans and I bring a black trouser and I wear my jacket on the plane and I, you know, I bring this many T shirts and a pair of running shoes and I'm like, oh God, she's got it together. And I'll sometimes like take a screenshot of it to remind myself of what this person, how she packs.
- [19:32]
Bella Hadid
I know I've got a friend who does that. She's super organized and. But part of my kind of anxiety about packing is that I don't look at that list.
- [19:41]
Julianne Moore
Yeah.
- [19:42]
Bella Hadid
Because I just, I don't know why. I just make it. I make it as painful as possible.
- [19:49]
Julianne Moore
I know I don't have as much patience with it. Like, I realize sometimes the people who are really good at that have actually taken the time. Like I'll take a lot, a lot of time picking out a piece of furniture and I'll think about it for a really long time. And I might even try the piece of furniture out, bring it to my house, look at it, bring it back. I'll do all of that, but I won't, for some reason I won't take the kind of time I need to take with fashion. And I don't know why, I don't know why.
- [20:33]
Bella Hadid
I quite like with clothes that the mistakes that occur and I want always to leave a little room for that, even though it's a bit nerve wracking. But I realize that that seems to work for me. So I'm sort of accommodating the whole kind of neurotic thing about it and thinking, well, there's going to be something. I'm going to get a new outfit out of this somehow by being so obsessed.
- [21:05]
Julianne Moore
Yes, there is something too. I mean I was talking before about like the soothing colors and I have this joke with my husband about dressing blank. What does it mean to dress blank? Like when you are in a crisis or when you're just trying to determine like what you're going to wear and you feel stuck? Like what's blank? How could you choose something that's like totally neutral? Like how do you find a way to just like you're the sorbet course. A fancy restaurant. Yes.
- [21:41]
Bella Hadid
What is that thing? That's a blank.
- [21:44]
Julianne Moore
That's like blank. There's something kind of interesting about that because then it sort of forces you to think about what's essential because there's.
- [21:57]
Bella Hadid
A huge difference between blank and anonymous. And I'm worried about anonymous in case I disappear into that and then I can't come back from it.
- [22:09]
Julianne Moore
I don't think you could ever be anonymous.
- [22:12]
Bella Hadid
Well, it's, it's funny how you can try on, I, I tried on something really beautiful from a brand and I just vanished and I just looked like a middle aged woman in a shop and I thought, oh God, how interesting because I've got a friend who wears the same thing and she just looks like a manga cartoon warrior or something.
- [22:38]
Julianne Moore
Right.
- [22:39]
Bella Hadid
Anyway, I definitely didn't.
- [22:41]
Julianne Moore
Well that's interesting because I do think there is that thing and that's why fashion could be so worrying. Right? Because it doesn't always work. And that's why when I talked about dressing blank or something, you're like, well, how do you, I think like I always want to see who someone is. Sometimes you don't remember what they were wearing. Right. You just remember someone's face or their expressiveness or the way they felt. And if you remember what they were wearing too clearly then you think like, well, did I see their face? So it's always, do you. What is the, what's the garment? What's the sense that lets someone self come through? And when I said I don't think you can ever be anonymous, what I meant was like, I don't think you, you Bella, could ever be anonymous. Like I feel like your face is so arresting. You have such a presence that I can't imagine that anything that you would wear would render you anonymous.
- [23:50]
Bella Hadid
Gosh, truly, I'm taking the compliment from Julianne more truly. I mean it. Yeah. And do you find if you're feeling insecure do you dress up or down? Is there something that's a linchpin for that kind of down, down?
- [24:09]
Julianne Moore
Because if I don't feel great, I lean into what feels good physically. Like, I just had a revelation, which is so nutty about fabric. Like, I realized, like. Like, all of us, I think we're all sensitive to fabric in one way or another, how something. And I realized I don't like the way anything that's slippery feels because I was wearing. I was. I was playing a character in something who was very elevated, really wealthy. And so. So the costume designer had dressed me in all these beautiful clothes, and a lot of them were silk, and I was losing my mind. Like, my skin was crawling, absolutely crawling, because every day I would get to work, and I'd pull on these silk pants, like a silk blouse, and I was like, oh. And so suddenly I said to this really wonderful costume designer who I love a lot, I was like, I can't take it anymore. I can't take one more silk outfit. And she was like, what? I said, I just realized it. I just don't like the way it feels. And she said, oh, I love it. I love it. So she's someone. She goes, I'll go home and put on, like, a little silk chemical. It makes me feel good. And I realized I'll go home and I'll put on something like. Like, you know, sweatshirt.
- [25:35]
Bella Hadid
Is it to do with where it. Where it touches the body that it is. Doesn't contain you enough? Because I find that I can wear a silk shirt, but I couldn't wear anything below the waistline in silk, or I. I just would not.
- [25:55]
Julianne Moore
All of it. Like, all of it. Like, I just hate the way it feels in my skin. So, yeah. So if I'm not feeling great, I will resort to, you know, like, a sweatsuit set. You know, I'll go there. I'll go to, like. I have a pair of hiking boots that I love. They're made by a company called Danner, and they've actually discontinued this particular boot. And I have two pair, and I keep them in the country where I walk a lot with my dog. I put those boots on, and I feel like I could fly. They feel so good on my feet.
- [26:42]
Bella Hadid
Yeah. And there's a woman you portray brilliantly who I'm so drawn to, and this is a woman who's glamorous and losing it, and you bring this pathos, and it's. And it's impossible to stop watching how beautiful you are. Like, in the character you Play in Boogie Nights. And I wondered what you drawn for that person who's so touching.
- [27:07]
Julianne Moore
Oh, for Amber. Well. Oh, I love that character. First of all, she's someone who has kind of a lovely heart. Right. Like, she's kind and she's soft and she's pretty, you know, but she's also. She's heartbreaking because she's completely delusional. You know, I think at the heart of Amber, she's someone who. Who, you know, she sort of plays at being a mother or plays at being a caretaker, but in. In reality, you know, she's lost custody of her kid because she's been arrested several times and because she's a drug problem.
- [27:49]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [27:50]
Julianne Moore
You know, so she's someone who lives in a fantasy. I'm always interested in any time we've concocted our own reality. You know, when you think about your question about what gives you comfort, you know, where do you go? Do you dress up or down? Do you retreat? Some people retreat into fantasy. Some people, you know, will elevate themselves somewhere. Some people want to ground themselves in something tactile or real. But where do you go? And it's so much easier for us to observe someone and say, like, well, this is their reality and this is their fiction. I think that's one of the other reasons that we love reality television. When people come in and they have all these issues and you as a viewer or look at it and say, like, well, she's. She's nuts. Or, you know, I think he's right in this situation. Or why don't they understand this? Or. But when you're inside your own drama, you don't necessarily have half the perspective. So I'm always interested as. As an actor in how you. And how you capture that or how you manifest that.
- [29:02]
Bella Hadid
I found it fascinating. And you have such an ability for this that with the character of Amber, she, you know, she was obviously falling to bits and she was a drug addict and everything, but she's still so sympathetic. And just this way of not reducing people with lots of problems and, you know, breaking the law or whatever, but you kept this, you know, this aspect going, and it creates so much more understanding of how difficult it is to be in a trap.
- [29:42]
Julianne Moore
Right. Or to be alive. Like, to be alive. It's like. So none of us. None of us want to be defined by our coping mechanisms. So I always think that. I always think often you'll see this in film scripts where they'll talk about a woman, and it'll be like a successful Woman. And they'll talk about her being controlling, right? And I'm like, huh? What is that? What are they trying to define? Or what is it they think? Who is it they think this person is that she is controlling? Well, someone who appears that way to me is someone who feels that they have to in order to maintain their lives, their sense of self or whatever, they have a mechanism of maybe trying to get something done so they can protect themselves. So you always see it's like what someone is projecting to the world in terms of their behaviors or the way they dress, their attitudes. It's not necessarily who they are. There's what everyone sees, and then there's the other thing. So that's the. That's what's so fascinating about behavior. And then also the fact that behavior, fashion. These are things that are also controlled or defined by culture or by an era, you know, or by class or by gender or by, you know, so I'm always. You're always looking at, like, what lens? What's the point of view? You know, what. What lens are we using to see this person? What. What lens are they projecting themselves through? There's always so much going on and. And a lot, much more going on with any individual at any given time than we ever are able to know.
- [31:37]
Bella Hadid
Sometimes you're very good at it, very good at reminding people of the humanity. And always so exhilarating to see that. And you've worked a lot with Todd Haynes, and he gave you your first break in Safe, and you seem to have this wonderful relationship with each other that you seem to get each other. And I read that he makes an image book for each character as a way of communicating something beyond words about the mood and the temperature and stylistic references. And do you work on that with him when you work together?
- [32:22]
Julianne Moore
No.
- [32:23]
Bella Hadid
He presents things to you.
- [32:26]
Julianne Moore
I mean, Todd is just magnificent. I mean, he is just such a fan. He's such a magnificent artist, you know, and he's someone who is so strong in terms of his language, his writing and his storytelling ability there. And then also he's equally strong visually, you know, so. So in terms of how he tells the story with the frame, how he moves the camera, how what. What his palette is like. He uses all the tools that you have available in. In cinema. And. And it's. He makes everything very easy. I always say about Todd that he's done the work for you because it's like there's so much framework there, you know, you. With his language, I always feel like I just need to kind of stay out of the way of it. You know, it's like, how do you. When I first read Safe, I'd never read anything like that in my life. It was so spare. It was so. It was enthralling. And then being held by his frame, you. Do you kind of know what story he's telling by, like, where. Where he's put you in the frame, you know, and often he'll storyboard everything, and you'll look at the storyboard and see kind of where your little figure is and where the rest of the people are and. And he tells the story that way. And Todd and I were. I think. I guess we're a month apart in age, really. He grew up on the. You know, on the West Coast. Yeah, I grew up. Like I said, I grew up everywhere. We both had really young parents, which I think is interesting. Both of our parents were. I think his parents were teenagers when they were married. My parents were 19 and 20. So I think growing up in a relatively similar environment with young parents at the same time in the United States, I don't know. I think we share a vernacular. There's something that we kind of understand and I think we understand about the mutability of identity. The idea that it's not. That it's not fixed, that so many other things are defining it. And so it's always really fascinating to get to work with him. And a real privilege.
- [34:41]
Bella Hadid
There's something about. I went to a screening of the last film that you did together, and he was there, actually, and I managed to chat to him, and he was so much fun. It was like me sort of seeing someone at school and thinking, oh, they look nice. Maybe I can talk to them. And then he was really friendly and just so adorable and just fun. And like a teenager, he is.
- [35:08]
Julianne Moore
He laughs really hard. This is actually a funny story. And that Christine Vachon told me. Christine has been his producer since they went to school together at Brown. Actually, they've known each other since then. And she's one of the producers of killer films. And I've made seven movies with Killer. I think five movies with Todd and seven with killer. And we were working on May December, and I was doing the scene with Charles where he comes in and he discovers my character sobbing. Like, he walks into the house and he hears hers. Her sobbing and sobbing and sobbing and comes in. And we did it a few times. And Christine told me that she turned to Todd and said, have you checked on her? Is she all right? And Todd said, oh, no, she loves.
- [35:59]
Bella Hadid
This that's so great.
- [36:03]
Julianne Moore
And it made me laugh so hard because he's right. Like, when I'm with Todd, I feel so safe. Like I said, I know how he's shooting it. I know where the frame is. I know what the temperature of the film is. I know. I know where I need to go. I feel very kind of held by his. His filmmaking. And so I'm able to do it because it feels safe.
- [36:30]
Bella Hadid
God, that's so lovely.
- [36:32]
Julianne Moore
But he is the most fun.
- [36:33]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Julianne Moore
Yeah.
- [36:35]
Bella Hadid
And a single man, the Tom Ford movie, that was, like, huge buzz in the fashion world, and you were the Tom Ford chosen one. And somehow being chosen by Tom Ford is like being anointed by a deity. He's such a big deal. And how specific was he about what he wanted in your appearance? And so specific.
- [37:01]
Julianne Moore
You know, he's marvelous, Tom. I mean, he really is just a marvelous person. And talk about an aesthete, you know. But one of the things that I love about Tomorrow is that he doesn't have any mystery about it. You know, if you. And I'm sure you know him. I'm sure you've met him. He doesn't. I think there are sometimes people in the world who can be very mysterious about process. Tom's not one of them. Neither is Todd. You know, they'll tell you, oh, well, you know, I'll say to Tom, what's wrong with that dress? And he'll be like, because the armhole's too low. You need to hire. And I'm like, oh, you know. Or he'll say, it needs to be this way, needs to be that way. He's not. He really does. He's got a very, very developed aesthetic. But he'll. He shares it. He'll be like, no, it needs to be like this with the acting and stuff. I mean, he gave us. First of all, I think he directed that movie beautifully. And I was so moved by Colin and it and I. And he gave Colin so much space for the grief that the character had. And as a director, I think Tom knew instinctively how to do that. It was very gracious and really beautiful. But he, you know, he respects actors and respects the kind of the time and the space that they need. But, yes, aesthetically, he's like, this is how it is. This is how I want, you know, I want you to be made up like this. This is how your hair is going to look. The dress was. You know, he's very particular about that. But then he'd be like. I remember saying to him, I said, what do I do? You know, it was a song. It was a scene where we were dancing. I said, so how do I get over to the record player? He said, we're gonna walk over the record player, put the record on. He goes, and then you're gonna dance back. And I was like, what? He said, just dance over there. I was like, okay, all right, fine. But then, you know, once we did it, it was like. I was like, okay. You know, and then. And then it was all just sort of what we ended up with, that kind of dancing.
- [39:06]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [39:07]
Julianne Moore
This tremendous freedom in that. But. But he did everything. I remember he came over and he fluffed up our pillows underneath our head. He would do. He'd kind of, you know, he was just very precise.
- [39:21]
Bella Hadid
Yes. Because when he. After the Heider Ackerman show for Tom Ford, he said, I loved the control. That's the biggest compliment you can get from me. And it was so touching. It was so different from how anyone else might mean it. It was just like everything was molecularly perfect. And your demeanor in that film, I remember so well how the sort of almost angle of your head, it's just such a captivating imprint. And, you know, the shades of your makeup and your hair, it was. It was amazing.
- [40:05]
Julianne Moore
I think it's interesting as you say that, because I think that, like, what comes to mind for me is intentionality. You know, it's like that idea of, like, what is. What is the intention? What's the communication, the specificity of, like, that. The honey blonde of her hair and how shiny it is and how it kind of falls apart. And her. The pink cigarettes that she smokes and the eye makeup and getting dressed up, even though she never goes out, and all of that specificity, all of that intention and that. That's what's so wonderful about Tom, is that he. Like I said, he is precise. That precision is important, and it's his. Like I said, there's not mystery around it. You know, he doesn't. He's not mysterious, but he's singular in his intention.
- [41:03]
Bella Hadid
Yeah. No, it's really sort of extraordinary. So it's so brilliant and, you know, unforgettable when it. You know, when you get it, it just never leaves you. You come across as a securely attached person. Many actors say they don't watch their performances, but you do.
- [41:26]
Julianne Moore
Not anymore.
- [41:27]
Bella Hadid
Oh, really? Because I was going to ask. Do you find it helps you detach from your own critical voice? I mean, even though you seem like someone not tormented or you're very well versed, at not showing that. I wondered how you do that.
- [41:48]
Julianne Moore
When I was younger, I was really assiduous about watching myself because I felt like I had so many bad habits. I had a lot to learn. I felt like I couldn't. I thought my voice was terrible on camera and I was fidgety and tense and I didn't know how to breathe. I didn't seem like a real person. And so I really watched and I was really critical and I tried to change things. You know, I tried to learn from that. And now I just can't bear it, you know, I really love what I do and I love the process of it. I love rehearsing. The actual shooting is so fantastic. Like, there's never a better feeling than, like, getting in the van on the way to the set, getting ready to do something, being on a set with all these other people and constructing something. Like, that's my favorite, my least favorite part is when somebody says, I'm gonna send you a link so you can see it. I'm like, oh, please don't make me watch this. Because I want. I want the experience. Like, I want to create it. And I like the pretending, you know, I like the buzz that you get when you have constructed this imaginary thing with these other people. And then when I see it, I don't wanna. I'm like, it's still me. Not again. Not her. You know, because in your head, you can sometimes convince yourself that you've actually transformed.
- [43:28]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [43:29]
Julianne Moore
You know, you see this other person and you're like, there she is. But then when you're forced to look at it, you're like, oh, that's my face. Oh, no.
- [43:42]
Bella Hadid
Is it? Because you can't do anything about it in that. You can't be back in that moment. Because, I mean, everybody. I mean, you are so good at the things you just described. And people are so caught up with your. You know, how this character that seems so unacted, it's so real, but.
- [44:06]
Julianne Moore
Oh, thanks.
- [44:07]
Bella Hadid
That's true.
- [44:09]
Julianne Moore
Yeah. I don't know. I guess maybe it is. Like, it doesn't ever. I don't know that sometimes the feeling is unmatched.
- [44:18]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [44:18]
Julianne Moore
You know, like the sea. Seeing it is not going to match what I felt at that moment. And so I'd like to kind of move on to the next thing.
- [44:27]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [44:28]
Julianne Moore
And it is like a, you know, it's like a gig thing. Right. People talk a lot about with what we do, our career. Oh, your. Your career. And at this point, I've been doing this for a Long time. So I have a lot of stuff behind me, but I very rarely think about what I did. I worry a lot or I think a lot about what I'm about to do.
- [44:51]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [44:53]
Julianne Moore
So it's almost like. It's like back there somewhere.
- [44:56]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [44:56]
Julianne Moore
You know.
- [44:58]
Bella Hadid
Yeah, that sounds quite good. Really. It's a good place. We've talked about your hair and the color of it and your children's book, Freckle Face Strawberry, that's just been pulled from the Pentagon.
- [45:14]
Julianne Moore
Is that so? This is interesting because there really recently was this edict. There are all these books that are under advisory, and they're books that are in libraries and school systems department of. Run by the Department of Defense, by the Pentagon. So a lot of people don't know what DoD schools are because they are schools for kids who have parents in the service. So if you happen to be on an army base, that school you most likely go to. I'm, of course, familiar with the DOD school because I went to them and I think most particularly graduated from one. I went to Frankfurt American High School back when there was a large military presence in Frankfurt, Germany. So I'm a DOD kid. So this affects about 67,000 children K through 12. So all of these books are under advisory right now, including J.D. vance's book, Hillbilly Elegy. So clearly one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. But I think it's alarming because I wrote this series of children's books called Freckle Faced Strawberry, about this little girl who doesn't like her red hair and freckles because it makes her feel other. And of course, it's really about how sometimes the things that make us feel other, which we were talking about the beginning of this, don't go away when we are older, but they cease to matter quite as much. Right. So that was sort of my message in these books. So it's hardly a challenging message. And I think that as a kid, one of the things that I found as an adult is it's how important it is to model to children what their lives can be where it is the same. And so for a little kid to be able to read a book, and the person who wrote it went to a school on an army base and has had these experiences, and this life is important. So I was really gratified by the response, which was that so so many people bought the first book again, that is being reprinted. So I think that was a. Maybe I was just a. It was a wonderful, wonderful response for me.
- [47:24]
Bella Hadid
Yeah. I read that it gone out of print and I tried to get a copy and I couldn't get one.
- [47:30]
Julianne Moore
They're reprinting it.
- [47:31]
Bella Hadid
Oh, good. Yeah, I like to have people's books on the. On the console thing. How do you cope with criticism, though?
- [47:46]
Julianne Moore
You know, this is not a. Kind of a lifelong thing. Isn't it interesting. You know, when you think about. I was talking about this just last night, that sometimes when I'm acting, I think I used to be much more defensive about direction and about criticism. So if a director said to me, you need to do, you know, X. I'm not saying X. When. When I was first starting out, I would be so mad. And I think like, well, I'm doing X. Does he think that I'm just so, you know, that I don't understand that's what I'm supposed to do? And now I'm like, huh? I'll say to somebody, well, I am trying to do X, but clearly it's not coming across. So let me take a look at this. Like, I'll look playback sometimes, or I'll talk about. I'll say, well, maybe I need to do something else to give you that. Like, I understand that sometimes what I am attempting to communicate is not being communicated. So I try to. I try to handle criticism or direction or something that way.
- [49:00]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [49:01]
Julianne Moore
On the other hand, there are times when it might be a matter of taste. People don't always like what you're doing or what you're trying to communicate, and that has to be okay too. But we're all human beings, right? So, you know, nobody. We all. We all crave praise. Yeah, Right. I mean, I think that's an interesting thing too, how much people want to be seen, want to be acknowledged. And sometimes criticism feels like a slap in the face or something or someone. Someone being dismissed. So. So I think that, no, I try to understand where it's coming from, try to use it constructively. And I also try to think about, like, where I'm critical and why I'm critical of something.
- [50:01]
Bella Hadid
Yeah. They say it's like it's in the recovery from something that you can experience something quite devastating or quite abusive, but it's how you come back from it. That's the important bit, if you can.
- [50:18]
Julianne Moore
Right, right.
- [50:20]
Bella Hadid
So if you fancy someone and they're wearing something you don't like, does it kill your attraction to them?
- [50:28]
Julianne Moore
Yes. That's a hard one. I don't like shirts with pictures, you know, I don't like, like a sunset on a T shirt. Like, I don't like a. I don't like, you know, a cartoon on a. I don't like any of that kind of stuff. So I'm always curious, once again, like, what the intention is. I'm like, hmm. So. Because I also. But I also know that, like, that can change. Like, you know, it's just a shirt. It could. You could have a reaction to something, but. But maybe, you know, maybe. I don't know, maybe it's not defining.
- [51:13]
Bella Hadid
But it comes between you. It can push her away.
- [51:17]
Julianne Moore
It can be a. It can. Yeah. It can be something that's a. Once again, a signifier. Right. So I'm always like, well, what is that person signifying to me?
- [51:29]
Bella Hadid
That's so interesting, because often people wear these things without even knowing.
- [51:35]
Julianne Moore
Yeah. But they chose it at some point. But then I'm also. I mean, that's not fair because I realize that there are things that I think that I've chosen or chose them at some point, but somehow they ended up in there. And so then I just, like, put it on. And then I look at my. What I put together, even, like in the house, and I'm like, wow. Wow. What are you saying? What is this?
- [52:03]
Bella Hadid
It's different, though, from having a kind of almost allergic reaction. It's like a screech to a halt of, oh, no. You know, that thing. And whether. Whether it goes beyond that or.
- [52:18]
Julianne Moore
Right, right. Well, I don't know. I think that if my attraction to someone were strong enough, I wouldn't be deterred completely. I'd have to go a little deeper. I'd have to go. I'd have to give it a little. Little more time if there was something compelling there to realize. If it was, you know, was it the shirt or was it an accident?
- [52:39]
Bella Hadid
Yeah. And you're very good at being the focus of attention, but you're also very good at being anonymous. And I mean, I just read you can travel on the subway and listen to people's conversations. And I wondered, what clothes do you go to when you want to be the film star? Where do you start with an outfit?
- [53:03]
Julianne Moore
Ah, well, if I'm going to be a film star, if I'm going to. I mean, shoes matter for me because I'm not very tall. So it's like wearing. You know, I'm going to wear something that has the. It gives me some height. I'm probably going to keep my hair out. Like, if I were. If I'm walking around New York City, I'll put my hair inside a hat. So Maybe my hair will be out. I might be made up. I'll be wearing something that's probably more elevated than what I would usually wear. But if I'm just myself and I'm on the subway, I just have on usually some jeans and coat and a hat and sneakers, and I move quickly. And it's also just about, I think, size. You know, there's a little kind of story that Padma Chodron tells about not knowing what size she's supposed to be and going to a lecture where she's supposed to give a talk. And she kind of walks in the back and somebody grabs her and says, no, no, no, you come here. You're in the front. You should stand here. You're going to be on this dais, and you're going to talk. And she says to herself, oh, I guess I'm supposed to be big. And then the next room she goes into, she's thinking she's going to be big. She's supposed to be big in this room. They say, no, no, no, you're sitting on the floor. You're sitting on the floor with the rest of us. And she's like, I guess I'm supposed to be small. And at the end of the story, she's like, I know. I realize I have to be able to be big and to be small. I can be big and small at the same time. So I think that's that other idea, too, about, like, mutability, about that we're not. We don't constantly have to be anything not to feel like you have to be so defined by size or identity all the time.
- [54:54]
Bella Hadid
And you just made the room next door with. With Almodabar. He seems to like lipstick a lot, and I wondered how you felt about lipstick.
- [55:05]
Julianne Moore
He loves lipstick. He loves beauty.
- [55:08]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [55:08]
Julianne Moore
I think he loves femininity. He loves clothes as, I think, as a. As an expression and as an art form. He has a real appreciation for aesthetics. And lipstick. Yeah, he loves lipstick. I go in and out of lipstick. I go in and out of makeup. You know, I think I'm so privileged because I have people who make me up and make me look so much better. You know, people who are really gifted who are able to actually kind of draw your face on. But I think that my own face, my own self is, you know, generally, I don't. I tend not to wear it. I tend to kind of stay away from it. And I really. I don't. It doesn't feel necessarily like me, but I do. I just like that. I like the Idea once again. I think I like the possibility. It's like you can be. You can elevate yourself or draw attention to yourself, or you can recede. You know, you're. We're all capable of both. And lipstick is a really simple way to do that because it is like a. It's like sending up a flare, right? Yeah. Sort of like, you know, you're almost. You're taking. It's like putting color on your face so people's eyes go to. To your face or to your. To your lips, to your. Often to your speaking, you know, so that's interesting.
- [56:42]
Bella Hadid
Yeah, I know. I've always had. I cannot even wear lip gloss. I'm so paranoid about lipstick, and. And I just. I've never worn it.
- [56:54]
Julianne Moore
Do you not like the color or do you not like the. The texture?
- [56:58]
Bella Hadid
I don't like. When I look in the mirror, I'm so shocked by what's happened.
- [57:03]
Julianne Moore
Aha.
- [57:04]
Bella Hadid
And then I think, oh, well, is it all to do with speaking? And I don't know what. But. So when I was watching you and Tilda having these various moments of lipstick in the film, and I. I could feel panic, sort of thinking, oh, my God, I'm so glad I don't have to do that. And how do they do that? And it really works. It's such a graphic difference.
- [57:29]
Julianne Moore
But you know what's interesting, too, we didn't even do it because we didn't do it ourselves. This magnificent makeup artist named Morag Ross. She's so talented. She's a real painter. She did it. So I always would say to her, too. I'm like, oh, the way I do lipstick is so terrible, and it just makes me look worse. And Morag does it, and I'm like, I look amazing. But that's Morag. So Morag was doing me, and she was doing Tilda, and she. She tells a story with the color. You know, I would even say, like, well, what color is that? She's like, oh, I mixed a few. You know, so she created it. You know, she did that. I am in no way responsible for it. So, yeah, I couldn't do it. But I'm the recipient of somebody else's aesthetic there.
- [58:21]
Bella Hadid
It's like, he seems to love women so much that they have to be even more feminine, because it's certainly not something that men wear generally, you know?
- [58:31]
Julianne Moore
Right. Yeah, I think so. I think he grew up very attached to his. His mother and hearing the stories that she told her friends and interested and I think in that kind of. In the drama of female life and cinema too. You know, Pedro loves. Loves the cinema and loves the heightened quality of it. So he brings that to his films and to his women.
- [59:03]
Bella Hadid
And playing opposite Tilda, she has such a huge capacity for friendship. And I.
- [59:10]
Julianne Moore
Right.
- [59:11]
Bella Hadid
I wondered if you were going to play her, how would you do that? Because she's such a. I mean.
- [59:18]
Julianne Moore
Oh, I love her.
- [59:18]
Bella Hadid
She's just so incredible. And I wondered what you. Because you're such a brilliant actress, I wondered how you would do Tilda.
- [59:26]
Julianne Moore
What an interesting question. I think that. I mean, you clearly know her when you say that thing about her capacity for friendship. She has a real generosity. Do you know, I think I would start there. I'd start with her eyes. I love. First of all, her eyes are beautiful. They're so unusual. They're so big and they're so wide set. But I think there's something about how open they are and what she sees and the way she kind of looks around and how she assesses things. I think I would start there that her. Her outward quality, which I didn't understand entirely until I spent time with her, until I was like, in her presence. And you feel kind of the energy coming towards you like that, you know, because I think her beauty is so striking and her. Just her. Her stature, all of that, that's sort of what you see first before you are in her presence. But when you're with her, you just feel this tremendous energy that kind of emanates from her eyes, from her soul.
- [60:35]
Bella Hadid
Yeah, it's true when you say her openness, because I've known her for a long time, but I don't see her very often. But sometimes she'll contact me and say, I really want you. She contacted me to see the Mark, the. What was it? The last film she did with Joanna Hogg, I think.
- [60:56]
Julianne Moore
Oh, yes. So good. The Eternal Daughter.
- [60:59]
Bella Hadid
The Eternal Daughter.
- [61:00]
Julianne Moore
I love that movie.
- [61:01]
Bella Hadid
And she just said, I really want you to see this. You need to see this. And it was so touched. I felt so touched. And, you know, this just re. Establishment of friendship and that she has deep feelings about a lot of things, but the way she sort of brings you in is something very gentle and un.
- [61:24]
Julianne Moore
Dominating and like a partner. And I think that we. I think both of us felt that we wanted to illustrate that in the film. The power of that kind of a partnership of that friendship and that we went through it, you know, we really went through it as a team. And I make all these jokes too. It was like, you know, like. Like salt And Pepper Frick and Frack Mutton Jeff or something. Especially because she's so tall and I'm smaller. And then we're both. You know what we were together all the time. This kind of. This weird sort of package. But I loved that with her. I loved. I loved our engagement. I loved, like I said, that illustration of what it means to. To reflect someone as a friend, to. To be by them, to just. To just show up, to. Like I said, I think that's something that Tilda does in her own life. I hope I do it in mine, too. But it was. It was great to be able to. To. To represent that, because it's not something you get to see in film very often.
- [62:37]
Bella Hadid
No, it was so wonderful.
- [62:39]
Julianne Moore
Oh, I'm glad.
- [62:41]
Bella Hadid
And if you were going to play a rock star, who would you choose?
- [62:46]
Julianne Moore
Oh, I mean, I love David Bowie. Right. I met him once, really in the most surprising way. I was doing a play on Broadway, and it was opening night, and all of these people were coming into my dressing room, and my door had closed for some reason. I went over to the door and I opened it, and David Bowie was standing there, and he was, like, right in my face. And I don't really remember what happened next because I just went. I was like. And he said, hello. And then. I don't remember. And I remember thinking he felt so gracious and so human in a way that I didn't. I kind of couldn't believe. And I think one of the things that I loved about him. Todd loves him, too. When I talk about Tom Ford being like this as well, he's someone who created all these characters and all of this beautiful music. And always there was artifice to what he did, but there was nothing artificial about him.
- [63:58]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [63:59]
Julianne Moore
And he never pretended that he wasn't playing a character. It was like he never was like, I'm Ziggy Stardust. It's like this is what he created.
- [64:10]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [64:10]
Julianne Moore
And he was David Bowie, and he. And so that humanity, like, when I opened the door and he was standing there, I was like, oh, you're a. Like, all of his personhood seemed to kind of come toward me. And that's what I remember. And so feeling that and then thinking of what he accomplished in his life, like the kind of music that he produced and how adventurous he was, was so incredibly moving. Right. Like, really profound.
- [64:45]
Bella Hadid
Yeah.
- [64:46]
Julianne Moore
That being said, I don't know that I would know the first thing about playing him, but I have a tremendous amount of admiration for him.
- [64:54]
Bella Hadid
When you had the hello, perfect. The accent was just. It was. It was him. I think. I think you could do it. Oh, good.
- [65:02]
Julianne Moore
Good. Glad. Good.
- [65:04]
Bella Hadid
Well, thank you so much, Julianne, for being on Fashion Roses.
- [65:08]
Julianne Moore
Thank you so much for having me. Me. Bella, this was amazing. I loved it. Thank you.
- [65:30]
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