Fashion Neurosis with Kristin Scott Thomas

Summary

Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud: Kristin Scott Thomas

Release Date: November 27, 2024
Host: Bella Freud
Guest: Kristin Scott Thomas
Platform: www.fashionneurosis.com
Social Media: @fashionneurosis_bellafreud

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Introduction and Personal Identity through Names

[00:08 - 01:00]
Bella Freud welcomes Kristin Scott Thomas to the show, congratulating her on her recent marriage and inquiring about her experience with adopting a new name. Kristin reflects on the fluidity of her identity through names, mentioning challenges with pronunciation and the humorous misinterpretation of her first name as "Scott," leading her to share an amusing anecdote about being called "Scotch Tomato" in France.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "It's funny that I've been thinking about that, but actually, I'm so used to taking on different names, I don't think it makes any difference." [00:21]

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The Impact of Early Fashion Choices on Self-Perception

[01:13 - 04:28]
The conversation shifts to Kristin’s early experiences with clothing and how her first bold fashion choice at age ten—combining bright red and pink—was met with criticism. This incident instilled self-doubt but also highlighted the profound connection between clothing and identity formation. Bella elaborates on how such early judgments shape lifelong fashion choices, emphasizing the role of clothing in self-expression and societal interaction.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "I saw this as fantastic. The two colors together worked beautifully in my mind's eye. And I thought, oh, that's a really bad thing. That's terrible." [02:09]

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Fashion in Acting: Building Characters from the Outside In

[04:28 - 07:23]
Kristin discusses the intricate relationship between wardrobe and character development in acting. She explains how selecting outfits helps in embodying a character's personality and traits before stepping onto set. This practice not only aids in performance but also reveals deeper insights into the characters she portrays, such as Diana Tavener.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "We build the wardrobes way before we get onto set as an actor. So you kind of create this character by choosing the clothes it's going to be seen in." [04:28]

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Experiences with Costume Design and Personal Comfort

[07:53 - 14:07]
Kristin shares her experiences with costume design, particularly during her role in "Only God Forgives." She recounts the challenges of wearing outfits outside her comfort zone and the emotional impact of public perception when dressed in unconventional styles. This segment highlights the vulnerability and resilience required to navigate fashion in public and professional settings.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "It was the most terrifying experience I have ever had. Cars slowed down, people beeped... I just felt that I was being put into shapes that I would never even consider." [16:39]

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Cultural Differences in Fashion: French vs. English

[20:22 - 29:16]
The discussion delves into the cultural nuances between French and English fashion. Kristin observes that French women often exhibit a casual elegance and adherence to implicit fashion rules, while English women tend to be more experimental and less uniformed in their style. This contrast underscores how cultural backgrounds influence personal style and the perception of fashion.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "There's a certain style that some French women have that is sort of perfect, which I really love... it's a sort of nonchalance that I find very enviable." [23:28]

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Personal Fashion Preferences and Influences

[29:17 - 37:51]
Kristin discusses her favorite garments and designers, expressing a particular affinity for suits and elegant simplicity. She shares anecdotes about selecting a Valentino dress for her wedding, highlighting the emotional and practical aspects of choosing attire for significant life events. Additionally, she touches upon her dislike for shopping and the comfort found in pre-loved or carefully chosen pieces.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "I do have a wardrobe full of the most gorgeous clothes... I got it out, did one or two tweaks and presto, there we had it." [37:51]

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The Role of Shoes in Personal Style

[41:30 - 46:51]
The conversation shifts to footwear, where Bella and Kristin explore the significance of shoes in completing an outfit. Kristin emphasizes the importance of comfort and practicality, while also appreciating stylish designs that complement her attire. They discuss the influence of designers like Christian Louboutin and the emotional connection to certain shoe brands.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "Shoes are really fun, aren't they? They really... I have an absolute thing. I've been wearing clogs since I was 12." [08:11]

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Behind the Scenes of Fashion Shows

[47:06 - 53:19]
Kristin recounts her experience walking in a Miu Miu fashion show, describing the dynamics between models and the emphasis on the clothing over individual personalities. She reflects on the collaborative effort required to present a cohesive visual narrative and the challenges of maintaining personal authenticity within the structured environment of a fashion show.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "It was such an insight for me to see that they worked really hard... all of this for sort of 10 minutes of vision." [50:53]

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Character Analysis: Diana Tavener in "Slow Horses"

[53:19 - 56:37]
Bella inquires about Kristin's portrayal of Diana Tavener, a character embodying a balance of authority and fragility. Kristin explains the meticulous attention to wardrobe in creating an authentic and relatable character, utilizing high street fashion tailored to reflect the character’s personality without relying on high-end designers.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "There's a lot of work that goes into Diana Tavener, although it looks very sort of straightforward." [55:32]

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Personal Style Preferences and Pet Peeves

[56:38 - 60:28]
Kristin shares her preferences and dislikes in fashion, particularly regarding undergarments and certain types of shirts. She emphasizes the importance of feeling comfortable and true to oneself in her clothing choices, rejecting trends that don't align with her personal style.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "Socks that attract the eye... white socks, I don't like a white sock." [59:29]

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Reflections on Gender and Communication in Fashion

[60:28 - 65:38]
In the final segment, Bella and Kristin discuss the intersection of fashion, gender, and communication. Kristin reflects on her tendency to be "stroppy" and how it relates to broader themes of women's voices and presence in professional settings. This introspective conversation ties back to the overarching theme of identity and self-expression through fashion.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Scott Thomas: "It's a mixture of all the above, really... women have to deal with all the time, of not being listened to, not being heard, being spoken over, being just ignored." [62:32]

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Conclusion

Bella Freud wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude for Kristin Scott Thomas's participation, highlighting her unique ability to intertwine fashion with personal and professional identity. The episode offers listeners a deep dive into how clothing serves as a powerful tool for self-expression, character development, and navigating societal expectations.

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Key Takeaways

• Clothing as Identity: Early fashion choices significantly impact self-perception and identity formation.
• Character Development: In acting, wardrobe choices are integral to embodying and developing a character.
• Cultural Influences: French and English cultures exhibit distinct approaches to fashion, influencing personal style.
• Personal Comfort: Comfort and authenticity are paramount in personal fashion choices, even when making bold statements.
• Fashion in Professional Settings: Navigating fashion in professional environments involves balancing personal style with societal expectations.

Memorable Quotes

• "We build the wardrobes way before we get onto set as an actor. So you kind of create this character by choosing the clothes it's going to be seen in." — Kristin Scott Thomas [04:28]
• "I felt like a kind of standardized version of a love interest because you have to appeal to a lot of people." — Kristin Scott Thomas [14:07]
• "There's a certain style that some French women have that is sort of perfect, which I really love." — Kristin Scott Thomas [23:28]
• "Socks that attract the eye... white socks, I don't like a white sock." — Kristin Scott Thomas [59:29]
• "It's a mixture of all the above, really... women have to deal with all the time, of not being listened to, not being heard, being spoken over, being just ignored." — Kristin Scott Thomas [62:32]

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This episode of Fashion Neurosis offers a rich exploration of the intricate relationship between fashion and identity, illuminated by Kristin Scott Thomas's personal experiences and professional insights. Through engaging dialogue and candid reflections, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how clothing transcends superficiality to become a profound medium for self-expression and societal interaction.

Transcript

[Bella Freud]

Fly. Come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Kristin Scott Thomas.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Thank you, Belafroid.

[Bella Freud]

You're recently married again. Congratulations. What's it like to have a new name?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It's funny that I've been thinking about that, but actually, I'm so used to taking on different names, I don't think it makes any difference. I mean, it's a funny name because it's a difficult name for people to get right. I never seem to be able to manage that. To get a name that is incredibly straightforward and spellable.

[Bella Freud]

Scott Thomas is quite easy. Really.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

That is quite easy. But, you know, I get called Scott all the time because people think I'm a man.

[Bella Freud]

Really?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

I mean, obviously on the phone, but that's so funny.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

Anyway, Scott Thomas, it'll be my new code name for you.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

In France, they used to call me Scotch Tomato.

[Bella Freud]

No.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah. Scott.

[Bella Freud]

What does that mean?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

And that was the polite version, means with Scottish tomato. Scotch, Scotch, tomat. Hilarious.

[Bella Freud]

That's a niche kind of insult, isn't it?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes today?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Let's go from bottom up. I've got some very cosy socks on and. Which I bought in Paris. And then I've got a pair of trousers, black, I think, actually, they're navy blue. And then a navy blue spotted silk shirt. I've always loved a spot polka dots.

[Bella Freud]

What was the first garment that changed the way you felt about yourself? What sort of age were you?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Gosh, what an interesting question. I was really little. I was about 10. I wore a bright, properly scarlet red wool shirt with someone else's name tape in it, Hamil Stewart. And a pink checked skirt with pleats. And I went downstairs with this and was told, what are you doing? You can't wear pink and red. Actually, I think it was more sort of orangey pink. And I thought it looked absolutely fantastic. The two colors together worked beautifully in my mind's eye. And I thought, oh, that's a really bad thing. That's terrible. I must be completely wrong. And that was a sort of piece of clothing that made me doubt my own judgment. I think that was the first thing. But it's not a very happy thought, so let's try and think of a happy one.

[Bella Freud]

I don't know. I think that it's interesting how people's judgment, and it usually comes from someone close, like a mother who cast doubt on your. The thing, the choice you've made, that is something to do with establishing your identity and Having that kind of negated. I think it makes a huge difference on what you go on to wear in the rest of your life. Because it sets up so much. This thing you thought worked, and it obviously did work, the orange and the pink. And someone said it didn't. So what is reality?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, no, quite. And that was so. It was so disappointing that. That it didn't. That, you know, it was. It was off limits that I wasn't allowed to wear that. There was a sort of. I was. I was disappointed in them more than me. It was something about being Corey. If you don't see this, that this is great, then, you know, I have no respect.

[Bella Freud]

That seems like a very good reaction.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway. Yeah. I mean, clothes have always made me feel different anyway. I mean, the whole thing about. Somewhere very smart said that you start off your character when you're building a character with the wardrobe. And it's true, because we build the wardrobes way before we get onto set as an actor. So you kind of create this character by choosing the clothes it's going to be seen in and what. These clothes that are representing this character and are sort of leaks of her personality. And that's always. That's always a bit that I really enjoy. I mean, usually enjoy. Sometimes it goes horribly wrong. But rarely, Very, very rarely.

[Bella Freud]

That's so interesting that you build from the outside in with a part you're playing, whereas happens the other way around.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Well, I know, but once you've got the outside, then you can start to work on the inside. And then obviously, sometimes that changes. So you can make a decision about a costume for a scene or something, and then you get towards it and think, actually, you know what? I think I should be not wearing that. Then I should be. And usually when you've got a good designer, they can, you know, we can. You can work that out and. Or they can guide you in another direction or whatever. But, I mean, usually that works quite well.

[Bella Freud]

It makes a lot of sense. It really does. Because I suppose if someone says these are the clothes she would be wearing, you know, the mood of that person, or you have a tiny bit of connection to that. And you're so good at that. You're so good at conveying these inferences on camera and on the stage.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Thank you. I do like to think that the characters that I play, the clothes, are quite precise. It's quite difficult to stay away from fashion because obviously, especially when you're doing contemporary characters. But I think, for instance, in the playing Diana Tavener, We've really nailed it, I think. And I say we because it is, you know, obviously it's. The costume designer is. You know, I don't choose the cost to costume by myself. He comes up and offers all these choices and he has a really good eye. And it's about proportion, it's about texture, it's about movement. All these things that are so sort of telling in a character's choice. But first of all, you've got the choice of the actual person and then you've got whether or not that looks good on camera.

[Bella Freud]

She's such a fascinating character and there's such a sense of her interior life. You know, she has to be strict and strong, but she has this kind of sex appeal which is bursting out. And yet her clothes are quite restrained. But I can't even remember what they are, except for there's this kind of undercurrent which is palpable and it's really exciting to watch.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Good.

[Bella Freud]

On your Desert island discs. Back in 2003, you chose a pair of Christian Louboutins as your luxury item. What do shoes do for you? Do you change when you put a pair of shoes on?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Shoes are really fun, aren't they? They really. I mean, I've always loved sort of. I know that I. I chose as my luxury item sort of red, beautiful, sexy shoes or red soled, beautiful, sexy shoes. Completely impractical on desert island, by the way. But actually I'm really drawn to kind of very sturdy things that can take me from A to Z, you know, I really love boots and sort of clodhoppers and clogs. I've got an absolute thing. I've been wearing clogs since I was 12.

[Bella Freud]

But clogs are a cool thing, especially our generation. I wore clogs at school. We were obsessed with clogs.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Do you remember we used to send off for them from Sweden or something. You'd send off for them and they'd come. You'd send them off in things like the virgin newspaper at the back. The classifiers. Dad.

[Bella Freud]

Nme.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Do you remember the nme? There you go. Yeah, that was it. It was NME and it was virgin. And you sent them. Sent off for the. For the clogs and the. And the loons.

[Bella Freud]

The loons, exactly.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

We'd sew them up really tight at the bottom.

[Bella Freud]

What, to make them drain pipes?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, to make them drain pipes. Take them in.

[Bella Freud]

God, that's.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

And you'd buy white ones and dye them.

[Bella Freud]

Oh, you were so ahead of the game. I. I was so Slavishly I had one pair of loons and a T shirt with mirrors sewn on which I wore every single day.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Lovely.

[Bella Freud]

Those back pages, they were. They were it. They were like the department store for provincial people.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I know, I know. It was really fun. The excitement and the waiting for it to arrive.

[Bella Freud]

I think I only had one experience because in my household it was. And in my school it was very looked down upon to be interested in clothes, to care about them. So I had to have slightly secret life which I was also quite ashamed of. There was a lot of shame around wanting things.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh yeah, I know that.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah. Did you have that too?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Definitely, yeah. Wanting because it was an imposition. Because wanting you couldn't want anything because it was impossible to get and you knew it would cause problems because then there would be guilt. Never ending stream of ideas. But yeah, that I remember not wanting things. But as far as clothing was concerned, we had some sort of cousins and we always had their clothes. So we would get these sort of deliveries of really nice clothes they lived in. They lived on the continent somewhere. And so there were all these always these sort of slightly strange clothes but beautifully made and fabulous fabrics. But of course I didn't want that. I wanted sort of white shiny PVC boots and a crimpling skirt and that's what I really wanted. But no, we had these beautiful sort of beautiful wool brushed flannel shirts and you know, everything was just gorgeous but with someone else's name tape in it.

[Bella Freud]

But not trendy clothes.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Not trendy clothes. No, no, no, no, no, no. I think the trendiest thing we ever had was from Ladybird. Do you remember Ladybird? Which is a range for children, Ladybird clothes? And we had. My sister and I had matching trouser suits which we were very, very proud of.

[Bella Freud]

Car. We never had anything like that. Never. We didn't have new things at all.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

And then I started making things late. We. There used to be that thing called cloth kits where you could.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh yeah.

[Bella Freud]

Get patches and. And then I got these jeans and cut us, slashed them up the side and made a gigantic flare.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh yes. We used to put those inserts, make them flarier.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah, that was fun.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I remember that. And lots and lots of dressmaker. We did lots of dressmaking when we were young because you just didn't. There weren't clothes and anyway you couldn't afford them. So it was so much cheaper to make your own clothes and accessible and you could make them the way you wanted to and it was great. So I Learned to sew and, yeah, we made all our clothes. When I went to my audition with Princess, I was wearing a suit that I'd made myself and it was a very simple cut, but it was a linen. A green linen suit that I'd made to go to someone's wedding. And that's when I went to meet Prince for my first film.

[Bella Freud]

Oh, my God. I was going to ask you about that when you starred in under the Cherry Moon and. As his love interest. And he's got to be the sexiest man that ever lived. And I. What was it like having his beam on you? And did he like you to wear certain things?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, it was weird that, because it was. Oh, God, it was so strange being put into these. I'd never really. I'd never been dressed by anyone but myself. I'd never had someone else's gaze on me to turn me into something else. That hadn't happened yet. And so it was a weird thing to be put into these shapes that I would never even consider. I remember one dress made out of sort of pale lilac d'vore velvet, which felt incredibly sort of vampy. And I felt incredibly uncomfortable in it.

[Bella Freud]

And did he choose all the clothes?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

He did, because he was the director. So he did. But, you know, he had. Marie France de Rohan was his designer at the time. She was making all his clothes for shows and things. And. And then she was hard to do the costumes on this and, you know, she made these really sort of extravagant costumes for him. Those high collars, those sort of frock coats, the trousers, buttons down the side, all those sort of things. He did all this. So I was a bit scared about what she was going to put me into. But it was the fashion to have sort of the sort of 18th century frock coat type thing going on. And we had lots of things like that and it was. It was sort of. Yeah, he must have been choosing it, but he was trying to make me into. Make. Turn me into a love interest that everybody else would be able to relate to. So you have to become a kind of slightly standardized version of love interest because you have to appeal to a lot of people. And that was so not me. It was so far from who I was. That was quite weird because it was.

[Bella Freud]

An early thing in your career.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

First thing in my career.

[Bella Freud]

But do you think it gave you a kind of a bit of agility about being able to cope with that? Because it's quite difficult wearing things out of your comfort zone range.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It is difficult wearing things out of Your comfort zone range. And that's why a lot of actors always kind of look the same in. In films or they do in French cinema. In it, in English cinema, we. Or American cinema, they do change more into character. But a lot of the French actresses will always be seen exactly the same thing. But it is difficult and it. And yes, I think it did make me more agile and I think that that thing I was saying earlier about finding the character with the clothes, that's something that I learned as I went along. So that's something that I've sort of developed as I've. As I've gone along to try and be brave by choosing brave clothes. So once you've got the shell, you have to then fill it. And I'm thinking of. Particularly. I'm thinking in this instance, I'm thinking of Only God Forgives.

[Bella Freud]

Oh, yeah.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Nicholas Winding Refn. I mean, I created that. That character was. We didn't have a budget for costume and the costume designer was also the set designer. So she was completely overwhelmed. And so she said, would you mind going and doing your own shopping? So I was let loose in Bangkok trying to find clothes that would be suitable and had great fun doing it. But that was definitely a sort of.

[Bella Freud]

Because didn't you have a like crazy hair wigs?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, I had a crazy wig and I wanted to look as sort of brassy as possible.

[Bella Freud]

What was that look?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Dangerous. That was really scary. Do you know, I had to. I was thinking about this before I came here. I was thinking about times when what you're wearing is really affected the. What. How people perceive you and how it makes you feel. And I've never done kind of quote unquote, set in my real life. I've never done. And indeed in film because I was trying to avoid it. So which. Because it makes me uncomfortable. So, you know, when. When we have to. We kind of get to a compromise, make clothes that are. That are sexy. I don't really do that. So one day I did a photo shoot with a friend because I'd been to a. Been to a fancy dress party and I'd gone as Amy Winehouse. It was a pop star party. I'd gone as. We. No one recognized me. Everybody thought this was hilarious. And then we thought we would do a photo shoot with me dressing up as different characters, which was such fun. And one of my characters was a man. Another one, you know, it was sort of. Lots of people do that now. But one of them was a sort of prototype for Crystal, the woman I played in Only God forgives. And we had a blonde wig, we had massive lip line. And the costume person, the person who was dressing me, Vincent d'array, put me into this sequined mini dress with silver high thigh high boots and a little, kind of tiny little handbag. And they took me out onto the street. It was the most terrifying experience I have ever had. Cars slowed down, people beeped. One man actually tried to grab me and pull me up, pull me off the street.

[Bella Freud]

God.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

People from the. I mean, we were doing a photo shoot, so it was obvious people were looking, but people were pressing their noses against the window, windows of the shops, looking out, pointing, laughing. I got insults, insults, people shouting out abuse from their cars. It was apps. And I was just dressed in these clothes. And in the end it got so frightening that we went back to the hotel and we said, I'm not doing that again. Just enough, enough, enough. It was, it was amazing. It really was amazing because you talked.

[Bella Freud]

Just before you were saying things to do with proportion. And I think wearing an outfit where it changes your proportions or it changes how you address your proportions, that's what I find the most terrifying and the most insecure making. I could wear anything as long as I've got the proportion right. Yeah, but that, where you're, yeah, you.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Know, you're emphasizing, you know, the middle, your middle section. I suppose that was, yeah, that was scary.

[Bella Freud]

Gosh, that's so dramatic.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

But I mean, I mean, genuinely frightening.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Not just, oh my God, this is awful, but genuinely frightening and very revealing about men because it wasn't women shouting abuse at me, it was men.

[Bella Freud]

Anyway, it's interesting because not normally dressing like that, you sort of think, I'm sure people aren't as bad as they sound.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

You know, I've always liked the look of nuns. I've always liked that sort of. I love the flow of the veil and I love the sandaled feet. And I live in Paris. I live in an area where there are lots of sort of nuns. I don't know why. And you see them, whether they're sort of almost just above ankle length skirts and they go along with their shopping trolleys and they've got these sort of flowing veils. There's something really lovely about that.

[Bella Freud]

You don't see or hear about nuns much these days, but when we were growing up, it was definitely an option. I remember Lucy Ferry saying she wanted to be a nun. And I definitely, you know, even though I didn't believe in God, I thought it was a bit like joining a You know, kind of protest group. But of course the moment of the excitement of renouncing everything and the exhilaration. I was in fact going to ask you about that bit, wanting to be a nun and whether you thought you could have seen the whole thing through or whether once you'd done the kind of grand gesture of giving things up.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

But you see, the tragedy of me is that I didn't really want to be a nun. I just wanted to. I wanted the kind of drama of it. I wanted the. The instant saintly hood and which is why I became an actress because it's quicker your picture is on this holy cards, you know, faster. There's something about the. And you're right about the renouncement that is quite exciting. The thought of being able to renounce in safety and with approval. And with approval.

[Bella Freud]

And also the uniform is kind of good.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh yeah, I was thinking about uniforms as well. About coming and about how I just can't resist. As I was looking for something to wear today, I thought God, I wish I had a navy blue cardigan. And I thought you cannot have a navy blue cardigan. That is pure school uniform. So never ever, ever buy a navy blue cardigan. But I would quite like one, a nice thick one. I can make you want.

[Bella Freud]

You know, you lived in Paris a lot of your life and you have the refined association with French women. Although you're cut glass English. And do you think French women dress better than English?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Um, I think certain, I suppose the. I think nowadays it's so. All so globalized, isn't it? And I. I think it's very difficult to tell. Used to be able to tell nationalities when you saw them walking down the street. But it's much more difficult now because there's a Zara everywhere. You know, there's a. So I think, do. I think they're better dressed. There's a certain style that some French women have that is sort of perfect, which I really love that a sort of casual elegance that is, you know, really desirable, I think. And it goes, it goes along with sort of. It's a sort of nonchalance that I find very enviable.

[Bella Freud]

It's a kind of. Is it a chic. Would you say? Are you thinking of a middle aged woman?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

No, I'm thinking about young women. Yeah, young. The whole range actually. Young women who are very. They're quite staid, I suppose it's quite restrained, I wouldn't say stayed restrained. And there's definitely. The uniform is definitely. It's like bon gout. Or mauvaisgout. And mauvaisgou is just a no, no. And bongou, there's very, very strict rules about what is bongou and what isn't. I've never really been able to penetrate that. But anyway, the movaigou is far more rigid than we have here. So here people are far more relaxed about what they wear, how they wear it, how, how they want to be perceived. They're much more relaxed about it. And many, and therefore many more mistakes are made, but they're sort of made heartily and that's rather nice, I think. And I think there's a lot to do with uniform. So I mean in England all schools sort of seem to have uniforms and I think it's a great thing, a uniform. And so afterwards, once you're rid of that uniform, sort of anything goes. And there's a sort of freedom to that. Whereas the French never have a uniform at school or very, very rarely in very sort of snooty private schools. But most French people will never have worn a uniform. And the idea of it they find completely insulting and infuria and outrageous that you should be told what to wear. And yet they've created their own like sort of rules that are really, really strict about clothing.

[Bella Freud]

It's funny that's so interesting because this thing about, you know, mauvais gout and ben gout and taste and code that because there's this myth, French women are always better dressed. I agree, it's not quite what it was anymore. But maybe the lack of uniform means they get to develop their own sense of what works or not. There's something heavenly about the way British people just haven't the faintest idea. And that's very touching and also you get some amazing outcomes. But this kind of thing that French women seem to have, which is an innate thing and it seems to affect the way they walk. They have this great walk and they know what to do. They know that you don't put this with that, but we don't know that. No one ever tells us.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

They're quite good at choosing what kind of who they want to be seen as. They know the rules for dressing a la something like this, sort of. So they're going to try and look like Charlotte Gasbourg or they're going to try and look like somebody else or they're going to be, they want to belong to that group. So I think that their own self inflicted uniforms are or chosen uniforms are very precise about which, how they want which gang they want to belong to, if you like. Yeah. I think we're much more. One day I'll be like this and the next day I'll be like that. And I'm going to try this and I'm going to try that and. And I think we're much more experimental.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah. Also, I don't think scruffy really exists outside of Britain because when I lived in Italy, I would wear scruffy and I'd get these horrified looks from the factory where I was working because they thought I was dirty.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

And that really freaked me out because I. I really.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

You're quite a clean person.

[Bella Freud]

Yes, I like being clean.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I know.

[Bella Freud]

And they didn't understand about frayed, you know, no worn out things. And so I had to kind of.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Get the balance right, get a bit of polish on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I was living in Paris, people would. Would always say, oui, mes les anglais. So I'm not quite sure whether that was what they were commenting on that. But, well, people.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah, there's this myth, but then there.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Are all those amazing French people. That incredible style like Lunod La Falez or, you know, or.

[Bella Freud]

She was English.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, well, true, true. Well, there you go. But you always think of her as being French. Mm.

[Bella Freud]

And that actor, Pierre Clementi, who played the glamorous lover in Belle de Jour.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, God, yes.

[Bella Freud]

I mean, maybe he didn't dress like that, but that was. That was punk rock, wasn't it? I mean, I was obsessed with him. Do you remember the.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

But I'm just trying to think of all the other sort of. And then you think of Anu Kame in, you know, with her impermeat, with her mackintosh, and you think about all these sort of Brigitte Bardot with her fluffy skirts, or, you know, they're just amazing sort of silhouettes and styles and. Yeah, I mean, it's really. French cinema has been. Is Belle du Jour. Is that. Is that. That's Portuguese. But is it. He was Portuguese. No. Was he Spanish?

[Bella Freud]

He was Spanish, yeah. Buno.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Spanish. Spanish.

[Bella Freud]

But all the clothes were French and I mean, that was so good.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Think of Les Demoiselles, whatever it was. Rochefort.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

All these things are just so an anecdote. It's amazing how film influences what people wear, isn't it?

[Bella Freud]

Yeah, very much. I mean, Anna Carina looked like she was at an English boarding school, but just so. So enchanting. So it was like a virus. When you watch some of those films, you just. You had to follow through. You had to obey the information that you would receive, which was to find out different things about how you could dress. And I mean, as teenagers and stuff, I was just completely spellbound by those.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

But a lot of it was coming from abroad. Wasn't it all that that style was coming from Europe rather than America. I can't think of one. I'm trying to think of a film from America that influenced the way I wanted to dress. I don't think I can.

[Bella Freud]

That's such a good thought. It hadn't crossed my mind, I suppose.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Robert Redford, you know, Day of the Condor or that peacoat or.

[Bella Freud]

But it didn't seem like clothes. It seemed more like these incredibly hot guys.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

I always loved that Louis Mal had great costumes in his film. And Viva Maria, where they.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, God, that was fantastic, wasn't it?

[Bella Freud]

I made it. One of my first collections was all based on that. My first fashion show. Everyone was in the style of. It was so good. Is there a particular garment you find attractive on a man?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I love a suit. Yeah. Something really reassuring about a suit. I suppose it depends which kind.

[Bella Freud]

Any particular crushes?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

No, no, not really. Because I don't really. I can't. But there's something. When there's something particularly elegant about. There's something very reassuring about a man who has the sort of quiet. As I think I used this phrase before today, a sort of quiet elegance that that suit can give. And I just love the feeling of assurance.

[Bella Freud]

I agree. I find it totally disarming. A man in suit. There's just. Because it's so simple. Obviously, if it's a bad suit, it's. It's a disaster. But it's more than sad. It's. It's like. It's like a magnet that goes the wrong way.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It's just repellent.

[Bella Freud]

How could you do this? You know, and. Yeah, I'm obsessed with suits, as you know. And so if I.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

That's true.

[Bella Freud]

You don't. Men don't wear suits as much as they did. But I know when it. When it happens, it. You just become completely docile. I do anyway. I just want to submit and be completely ordered about.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Bloody hell. You should be lying here.

[Bella Freud]

I love it, but it's so powerful. It's so powerful. I know. The discreetness. The. I used to. My dad, when he was working and I got to know him really, when I started sitting for him, so he'd wear these. He used to buy these chef's trousers at Denny's in Soho. And he'd wear those with these huge boots with no laces and quite a good shirt. He'd have these shirts made and then they'd all get covered in paint and. But then when he'd go out for dinner, he kind of suddenly appear in this gray flannel suit and it was like magic, you know, there was a shimmering light and I think, I love that transformation.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

But also with a man, it's fast, like, I mean, I'm.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Fairly speaking.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

There's something really just. So that's what I mean by this simplicity of it. No, that's a good thing, I think, going back to uniforms as well. I mean, when you see men in a really glamorous, well cut uniform with lots of braid, that is quite spectacular as well.

[Bella Freud]

And also when it's subverted, like a lot of the reggae artists, they would take those, you know, kind of royal medal laden things and just change them up. So disarming. Again, so glamorous. It's the taking of the traditional and the official and owning it as a revolutionary. I love that kind of defiant act. I find a bit of khaki on a man is irresistible. Do you dress up or down if you're feeling insecure?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Gosh, probably down. Yeah, probably, yeah. And then I have to really regroup and lace myself up and then I'm all right. But I think that's, that's. It's so easy to sort of flop around and be lazy and not get together. It's sort of disappointing, you know, I've got a wardrobe full of the most gorgeous clothes and, you know, I want to wear them. I was so excited the other day. I bought out a dress that I hadn't, hadn't worn for ages and it still fitted, thank God. And it was just so thrilling to be able to wear this beautiful dress. So excited.

[Bella Freud]

You're very good at wearing dresses, though.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I, I do love dresses. Again, it's the simplicity of it. You just shove it on. You don't have to think, does this go with that? You just. Bingo, you're on.

[Bella Freud]

But you inhabit a dress very well and, and then because I, I find dresses a bit more challenging.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yes. You don't wear very many dresses.

[Bella Freud]

I like a short.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I've seen you in a, like a sort of Ossie Clark dress that I loved. I loved Ossie Clark. My mother had some Ossie Clark things.

[Bella Freud]

He was a genius.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Total genius.

[Bella Freud]

But what, what dress did you wear for your wedding recently?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I wore a Valentino dress that I bought years and years ago in A shop, it still had all its labels in it. And my sister. We'd been out, we'd been there. I was buying my sister a present and she said, you have to try that dress on. It's got your name on it. And I did, and it looked great. And I said, yeah, but it's cream. I'm never going to wear a cream dress. I said, yes, you will. You know, ascot and there are all these lunches, all these things you've got to go to. And of course, something happened. I got a job. So my life stopped and the dress went into the cupboard and was literally not taken out until I was asked, I was proposed to. And then I thought, oh, God, I've got to go and look for a dress. And that. That. That is my worst. Shopping is my worst nightmare. I really don't like shopping at all. I don't know if it's about parting with the money. I don't know why. Whether it's having to look at myself in a mirror, having to change, having to get dressed. I really don't like it. And the thought of having to look for a wedding dress was just sort of a real groan. And then I remembered that I had that dress in the cupboard and I got it out, did one or two tweaks and presto, there we had it. I was very happy. I did have a beautiful hat made. And that was very exciting. Really lovely hat.

[Bella Freud]

Who made the hat?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It's a company called John Boyd. One called Sarah, who works there, and she just made me. It was so sweet. I went in there. I was keeping very, very discreet about it. I said, I need a hat for a wedding. And then she talking about what sort of thing. Is it your daughter? Yeah. Yes. I said it was for my daughter. And then. And then after a while, I said, actually, we were talking about things and I said, well, I don't want to look too this and too that. And I said, actually, I'm going to have to tell you, I'm the bride. I felt so silly saying it. I think it's the only time I ever said, I'm the bride. And so we concocted this thing. It was really sweet. And it's such a lovely thing when you say I'm the bride, because people's faces just light up and they. And everyone's so thrilled. And the. The idea of creating a garment that is going to be with you when you make this commitment, it's a special thing. And then I had. So I had. And I had a pair of Christian Shoes, because they just were perfect. And I had a beautiful embroidered shawl that I found in my mother's cupboard. So I wore something from her, which was very nice and. And her pearls around my wrist because I wanted something blue and so she had these sort of gray pearls that would pass for blue and I wound those around my wrist so I had something from her. So. Yeah, no. So this dress is ivory and so it's very difficult to know what to put on your feet because I can't bear white shoes, a real thing about them. And so I had to find a color that would work with this very sort of pinkish ivory. It was a very warm color. It was a beautiful color. Anyway, I found them chez Christian, which was good.

[Bella Freud]

What were they like?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Mary Jane swayed Mary Janes in a kind of gorgeous sand colour and with not too high a heel, sensible heel. It was lovely.

[Bella Freud]

It's nice to have Christian, your shoes made by Christian, who's such a great friend to both of us. In fact, it's really.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

That's how we met, isn't it?

[Bella Freud]

We met, yes, staying with Christian in Portugal and I remember you just finished that Pinter play and you were just exhausted and. Yeah, Christian is always there at the important moments in life. Whether it's not him physically, it's his clothing.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, they just.

[Bella Freud]

His shoes just.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I don't know, just like a sort of thing. They're almost like a kind of charm.

[Bella Freud]

They're like a talisman. They bring good luck. He brings good luck and they bring good luck.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

You're right.

[Bella Freud]

I've got a photograph of him. I think he may have. It was about. Gosh, it must been. I can't remember time, but 15 plus years ago, maybe 20, and he was sleeping on the sofa and I've got a photograph of him and are surrounded by boxes with all these incredible things, you know, pulling out shoe after shoe.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

What I love about him, he's so inventive and he can see things that I can't see until he shows me. And when he did his exhibition, which was quite a revelation. Yeah, his exhibition was like going on some sort of crazy fun fair ride. It was just completely mind boggling.

[Bella Freud]

It was a total masterpiece.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

That was.

[Bella Freud]

And you saw how the depth of his creativity and his understanding of how to make an idea into a shoe or, you know, the start of it, where he gets ideas from and how deep it was. I had no idea. I mean, it was really, really educational and remarkable.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

Do you start an outfit with a shoe?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Sometimes, but not usually.

[Bella Freud]

Where do you start?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I start by sort of where. Where am I going? I suppose where am I going and how do I fit in there? And sometimes you want to go against the grain. Sometimes you want to go with the grain. Sometimes I really put my foot down. No, I'm not doing that. I'm not going to do sort of glossy, slightly show offy, red carpety. I want to go against the grain. I want to do something chic and sort of understated and lovely. I remember once going to one of those big Cannes things. I mean, can is fantastic for dressing up, but you can get a bit fed up with it. And I found this amazing shirtwaist, a long silk jersey, shirtwaist pin tucked in sort of ivory, long sleeves, very, very sort of strict. But with a long flowing skirt from Lanvin that I wore in Cannes. And, you know, the judgment was passed. And the judgment was not good. But it looked so great. It looked fantastic. And that was another occasion of how can you all be so stupid? This dress looks fabulous.

[Bella Freud]

You know, who passed the judgment, you.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Know, in the press, sort of, you know what it's like sort of slightly sarky comments or looking very this or that or whatever. People don't think you look hot enough. I hate that expression so much.

[Bella Freud]

My friend Kim, when I told her I'd be talking to you today, she said she'd love to know what underwear you wear.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, God, no. My underwear is a state of shame. My mother would call it educated grey. It's been in the washing machine so often. You know, one has one's favorites. But I do. There's a very good supplier in Paris which is very sort of basic, called princesse tam tam. And they're brilliant and I get a lot of things from there and heiresse when I'm feeling swanky.

[Bella Freud]

But do you go towards the. The French lace type or the English sporting school?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I like sensible pants. But then if I'm putting on a really pretty dress, like the dress I wore the other night at Schiaparelli, that.

[Bella Freud]

Bright pink one, that was lovely.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I won't put my sensible pants on. Underneath that I will have the prettiest pair I have. I won't disrespect my beautiful dress by wearing a pair of well educated, sort of, you know, slightly baggy, elasticated jobs from, what was it? Somebody. My security pants, my security knickers.

[Bella Freud]

I'm glad that some people have a fetish for those types of things, though.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Do they? I haven't met anyone like that and I don't Think I ever will now.

[Bella Freud]

So your husband, he likes a nice.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Well, I think you have to ask him that. I don't speak in his name.

[Bella Freud]

And how was it walking in the Miu Miu show last season?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, that was such fun. God, I love doing that. It was such fun. For a start, it was the weirdest sort of experience because, you know this. Lots of other people won't. But when those, those shows are. First of all, there are so many models, so many people, and you're each given a little sort of tent. Well, you're not each us VIP people. We all had our own little tent. And sometimes you see someone stick their, Their, their head out and say, hello, how's it going? Then you have to go back in and. But what was really interesting is that usually we, the actresses, the famous actresses, the famous pop stars, the famous. Whoever they was, we're the deal. But in this case, we're not the deal. It's the clothes that are the deal. And you have to put your own personality or your own ego at the back. And it's about the clothes. And you have to show off these clothes in the way that you've been told. And of course, you know, I'm number 14 in the, in the, in the order. And the girl who's in number, who's number one, sets the pace, and she's probably about 22. She's got legs as long as, you know, as tall as I am, and takes off at a pace you cannot imagine. So you got old Kristen trotting along behind, trying to keep up. But oh, my God, it was just so brilliant. And to see all these amazing clothes. She is just extraordinary.

[Bella Freud]

Did you meet Mrs. Prada?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I mean, she's quite impressive. Properly impressive. Anyway, there was a drama because they had. They put on these enormous gloves to wear, and they were. They looked fantastic. But she said to me, Mrs. Brada said to me very, you know, you must wear what you feel comfortable in. And I said, you know, these gloves make me feel really. I didn't feel comfortable. I didn't feel like a woman in these gloves. I said, okay, it's fine. You can wear some others. Anyway, I learned a couple of weeks later that it caused a complete rumpus. And apparently you refused to wear the gloves. And I didn't refuse to wear the gloves. I just asked for some gloves that I like the gloves. I just felt that the gloves that they'd given me, which are like this, they were basically those kind of fireman gloves for when they're hand. You Know steel workers gloves or something like that. So there these enormous gauntlet things that were huge and it just made me feel very weird. And so I said, can I have some others? So they gave me some big men's gloves. But I didn't refuse to. I was asked whether. I just want to set the record straight on that. Thank you.

[Bella Freud]

I suppose it's about proportion again, where that proportion just so overshadowed you in time.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Maybe that. That was probably. You see, there's probably the ego of the actress who's coming out and saying, no, I want my Kristen Scott Thomas can't wear this. Perhaps that's what it was. My narcissism won in the end.

[Bella Freud]

I don't know. I don't think you're a narcissist anyway. And the whole point of asking an actress to be in a show is to get some of that, I think, even though it causes chaos because I suppose there has to be some other balancing acts that maybe go on in the background. But.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah, but I would have loved so much. And it was such an insight for me to see that they worked really hard and the sort of sea of makeup and hair artists and the sort of the mayhem that was going on before and all of this for sort of 10 minutes of vision. You know, this whole show took 10 minutes. I was really, really sort of gobsmacked by that. And I happened to love what I was wearing as well. So it was all very, very happy.

[Bella Freud]

It is a huge amount of work. I mean, when I was doing shows and then before that when I was working for Vivienne Westwood, people didn't have one outfit in those days, each model would change at least four times. So it was much more nerve wracking. And I remember in one of my shows the dress did get put on the wrong way around. And that was my last show. And I thought, you know what? I hate this. I'm never doing another show and I never did. I just prefer making films or doing shoots or something. But I love the thing now where, I mean, it's much easier but much more expensive to hire 50 models. Yeah, yeah.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It must be incredibly expensive.

[Bella Freud]

But so thrilling to watch.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I, I thought it is great, isn't it?

[Bella Freud]

Yeah. Mrs. Prada, she's really.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

She's quite something. She.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah, she's one of the only Italian women I've seen dress in a sort of. Not as a. In a punk rock style, but her, her chic is not. Is beyond European. It is also got this kind of groundbreaking thing that you don't See, European women do. She does it. She is just so different and so avant garde.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

This is sort of so elegant chic, isn't it? Yeah, it's much more provocative than the sort of simple elegance I was admiring before. It's much more provocative and it makes you think. And it's slightly jarring, but in a good way, you know, sort of surprising. And I think she always looks amazing.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah, she's really attractive, I think.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

But anyway, there we are. That was my Miu Miu experience. That was fun.

[Bella Freud]

And going back to your character, Diana Tavener in Slow Horses, who's a very sexy mixture of no nonsense and. But with these flashes of fragility. Who are you drawing on? Anyone. For this? Also you swear quite a lot, which is.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I don't swear at all.

[Bella Freud]

You do. You say to the. What's the man called?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, fuck off.

[Bella Freud]

Or something like that.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I've said, I've said. I've dropped the F bomb twice in four. Four series.

[Bella Freud]

Isn't it funny that I.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

You have remembered it that you just. I choose my words quite carefully, but one of my. One of my fucks was to myself, under my breath, fuck like that. And another one was to him. And I think that was the first time I'd ever actually told anybody that they could, you know, f off. Get out of here. F off.

[Bella Freud]

She's so. She's so fantastic. She's just.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

She's a good character, isn't she? Yeah, yeah, because. And I'm really proud of the way she looks actually, because I don't know, you know, she. Because she does have a sort of swish to her that is. That is feminine without being kind of skittish or flirty or there's something quite seductive about her swish.

[Bella Freud]

No, she's definitely got that frisson. She really does. And I suppose, you know those things you hear people talk about, I mean, obviously she's a different age group entirely, but Mrs. Thatcher and how all these men had all these crushes on her. And Diana Tavener has that thing of being, you know, very private nonsense. Authority. But she's sex. She's very sexy. And I wondered, are you thinking of anyone? Are you drawing on anyone? Or does that just one of the brilliant things you do?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

No, but I do think, you know the thing we were talking about earlier about the French, there is something quite French in her chic. There's something quite. It's quite difficult to do that because we can't use sort of designer, you know, high end designers because it's she would not have the means to do that. And it has to be recognizable. So a lot of the clothes that she wears are high street and very, very accessible and. But will often these clothes are quite trendy, so you have to sort of de. Trend them. So you have to take a bit of fabric out or you have to. You have to tweak things and to make them fit well and flatter. So there's a lot of work goes into Diana Tavener, although it looks very sort of straightforward. Oh, she's wearing a. A shirt and a skirt. Yeah. But that skirt is. Oh, you know, that skirt has been thought out incredibly carefully by.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Guy Speranza, who's the designer.

[Bella Freud]

It really comes across, I mean, this tension in her outfits.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Which tension? Yeah, absolutely.

[Bella Freud]

And then there's so much tension in the series anyway. It's just very.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It's good, isn't it?

[Bella Freud]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I'm so pleased to be in that. It's so exciting to be in something that people are so excited about, so happy to be watching and get such enjoyment from and are so gripped, you know. That's really, really thrilling.

[Bella Freud]

Well, you're very much part of that, you know, it's very much a lot about you. You're just so good at stealing the show.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, don't say that.

[Bella Freud]

It's true. And you've been a pin up for lots of designers and I wonder, is there someone that you look up to or look to and admire for their style?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I always think Tilda is amazing.

[Bella Freud]

She's a fantastic wearer of clothes.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

She's a fantastic wearer of clothes. And she's incredibly sort of adventurous and won't obey the sort of rules about looking appealing or whatever. You know, she does her own thing, which I think is great.

[Bella Freud]

Yeah. And she does look appealing for doing that.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yes, totally. That's what I mean. But it's not the same kind of appealing, you know, it's not the sort of. I don't know why appealing is such a. An unpleasant idea to me.

[Bella Freud]

I don't know. There's something about her that is like in sort of children's stories where the character just has these clothes that make you love them and they, you know, like Minnie the Minx or Dennis the Menace. This one thing, she has this way of being incredibly chic. You know, she'll wear these amazing outfits, have this incredible hair. You get this purity.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

And that is very. It touches.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah. No, I think it's. I don't. I don't Find it. It's not. When I say appealing, I mean, I don't want to be. I don't. I'm not particularly drawn to appealing. But what I really love is surprising. Surprising and kind of emboldening. And I think that that's. That's fun. And she certainly does that very well.

[Bella Freud]

And if you fancy someone and they're wearing something that you don't like, does it kill your attraction?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Yeah. Yes. But doesn't that do the same for everybody?

[Bella Freud]

Everyone has a different.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Different rules. Yeah.

[Bella Freud]

Can you think of something in particular?

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Apart from socks. Socks are really a. No.

[Bella Freud]

No socks at all.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Socks. No, no, no. Socks that attract the eye. Comedy socks. White socks.

[Bella Freud]

I love a white sock.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

No, I don't like a white sock.

[Bella Freud]

You live in a white sock.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

No, I don't.

[Bella Freud]

I mean on a man.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I'm too old for those. On a married. No, you know. No, can't do that.

[Bella Freud]

Brian Ferry wears a white sock.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I'm sure he does.

[Bella Freud]

He looks fabulous.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

What else? Satin shirts. Can't do those. You know, silky. I love proper. I love that silk twill. That's gorgeous. But that floppy stuff. Ooh.

[Bella Freud]

And it's the trend these days to be a nice person. You can be quite stroppy.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Oh, here we go. This is your revenge.

[Bella Freud]

This is the last question. So I know. Get away without being killed. And is there anyone who lets you get away with this? I can't believe I'm even asking you.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Asking me about being mean?

[Bella Freud]

About. No, not mean. Being stroppy. I actually love your stroppiness, so it's in no way a criticism, but I.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Just being short tempered. No, I wish I wasn't. I really do genuinely wish I wasn't. I wish I was nice and sweet and kind, but sometimes I just. It just. The. The damn. Doesn't work, you know, it just doesn't. It just comes out. I am impatient.

[Bella Freud]

It's weirdly endearing.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

Because you're very weirdly endearing. I think you're very weird. Bella Freud. In my maturity, I find this droppiness actually fairly unpleasant, though. I mean, I really wish I wasn't like that. But as I say, sometimes it gets better of me and I don't know really where it comes from. But that's. That's a question for my. For my real therapist.

[Bella Freud]

Well, I think it's an asset to be discriminating and I use that.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I love the way you call it discriminating. That's so sweet of you.

[Bella Freud]

But it is. My dad used to use that word as it's intended. And it's good to mind about things and to say, as I say, it's a kind of trendy thing to be super nice, but it's got to come out somewhere. And because you're such a magnificent and wonderful actress and you have enchanted the whole of the world with your character in Slow Horses as well as many other characters, I think it's a valued attribute. And you obviously. I felt like I could ask you about it. Because you're not going to smash the microphone and storm out.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

No, because it is a sort of an act, I suppose. So it is a sort of a. Perhaps a defense mechanism, perhaps a. A sense of powerlessness or whatever. And I think that in my characters, like Diana Tavener or Fiona in Four Weddings or even the one in Fleabag, you know. But that sort of stroppiness, as you say, which is a wonderful word. I think it comes from a sense of outrage, but also a sense of not being. Not being heard and being frustrated about not being heard. And I think that is something we all have to deal with. And I think it's something that women have to deal with all the time, of not being listened to, not being heard, being spoken over, being just ignored. And I think that that's all. It's a mixture of all the above, really.

[Bella Freud]

I think that's so interesting because it's. You have to work hard to get where you've got and you have to have some things to make sure people do listen. And it is such a big thing of being spoken over as a woman. I mean, it's like, you know, we all laugh about it, but it is. It's a real.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

I once did a film with three actors and I really noticed the sort of. It was really strange to be in. In this world. I was the. I think there was another. There was another actress. It was a long, long, long time ago, but it was really weird to be in this male atmosphere of competition of. It felt like being inserted into some sort of rugby team and they were all trying to win something. And it was an absolute eye opener into sort of the difference between women's behavior and men's behavior in a professional world where they were all really competitive. And I sort of didn't really register. And I got very Bolshy on that and I didn't behave very well. And I think that it was because of. That. It was because of not being able to get a footing and a foot in. Into the scrum of. And it really did feel like that. Anyway, poor me.

[Bella Freud]

Sounds like you've got things sorted out. Anyway, thank you, Kristen, for being on Fashion Neurosis.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It's been Fashion Neurosis.

[Bella Freud]

Wonderful to have you.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

It's as if I needed another.

[Bella Freud]

This is the best one to have.

[Kristin Scott Thomas]

The best one to have, Sa.