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- [00:01]
Advertiser
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- [00:03]
Lorde
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Lorde
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- [01:03]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Lord.
- [01:14]
Lorde
Thank you.
- [01:15]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Can you tell me what clothes you're wearing today and why you chose them?
- [01:19]
Lorde
I'm wearing this old Yoji blazer that I really love. I'm wearing old Margiela trousers. I don't know where the top is from. It's not mine. And I'm wearing just some old shoes. I've been trying to wear a lot of my own clothes at the moment. Feels quite different too. Wearing an outfit that doesn't belong to you. There's just a different. Something happens when you. I mean, as we all know, when you're in your pair of jeans that you love, day after day, they start to imbue you with something different when you put them on as opposed to the unzip the garment bag and put this thing on that you've never worn before.
- [02:09]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah, they're more friendly somehow. They have your back more supportive. And I love that you call yourself Lord. And Lord has so much more flair than, and humor than lady or dame. And where does your fascination with the idea of aristocracy come from? And I wondered how old you were when you named yourself.
- [02:32]
Lorde
Well, I was 15, I think, or 16 when I named myself. Very last minute was putting the songs up online. Needed a name. Yeah. Had had this sort of fixation on aristocracy and history in general, but definitely looking at these sort of old ruling classes, there was something so interesting to me about the. I don't know, I mean, visually they were also interesting, but there was this sort of feeling of that they were trapped and doomed. You know, it was sort of. There was like a pull and a push. No one, I don't think anyone actually wants to be in that position, so. But I don't know, like I was into the Anastasia and all the Duchesses and Duke there and sort of all the English rulers going far back and, you know, the intricacies of court life and all this sort of stuff. And I don't know, I think I thought that there was something about the juxtaposition maybe of bringing one of these sort of old heavy names and also sort of playing with gender with it, too, like taking Lorde, which is obviously masculine, and sort of softening it. That was totally intentional. I've always felt like I needed some masculinity to explain myself.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Like a kind of a God almost.
- [04:39]
Lorde
Or just like that. That's that. Then I'm fully represented.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah.
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Lorde
If everything's there, both sides are there. And I think it's so funny, having made the album that I've made, which sort of deals with a lot of those feelings, to realize that it's baked into, you know, even my name from age 15.
- [05:08]
Fashion Neurosis Host
It has a lot of flair, though. The idea of a young girl kind of summoning up a guise of Lord, like a calling card, is like those kind of very brilliant figures in storybooks, like the White Rabbit and, you know, being incredibly busy, but. And looking really cool with this amazing outfit. And it just seems to suit you really well. You've got all these guises, and it's really fun. And then it's got power because it's a Lord. It's really good. I love it.
- [05:43]
Lorde
Thank you.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
And I watched an interview you did with David Byrne where you were wearing these. He was head to toe in pale blue, and you had a fuchsia satin suit. And I wondered if you were interviewing each other, I believe. And I wondered if you'd agreed upon this color formation. And somehow you had the strong color and he had the delicate color. I wondered if they had a code.
- [06:12]
Lorde
Mmm. I think on the day there was. We just sort of. He came into my dressing room and said, I might wear this one. And I said, all right, I'll wear that one. You know, it was sort of. When you're around David, you want to follow his lead, obviously, because what he. What he brings and what. There's just something there that wants to be followed. And you have the sense that in entering into his world and sort of doing things the way he does them, that might deliver you somewhere you've been trying to, you know.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Or. Like, it will rub off on you.
- [07:09]
Lorde
Like it might rub off on you. Yeah, and it has really rubbed off on me, actually, because I remember he came to that shoot on a bike. He, like, rides his bike everywhere, and he looks so Cool. He has this cool helmet. I don't know how to describe it. It's like some fabulous helmet. Anyway, he said, if you ever need to borrow a bike in the city, because I just moved to the city, you can borrow one off me. So nice. And I did take him up on that. And I. For years, you know, spring would come and I would go to David's and get his bike and then drop it back in the winter and I've still got it. Actually, I need to give it back to him because I've got my own bike now. But he's. And honestly, riding a bike actually like, kind of changed my life. So if you do follow, my own thing is proving true now I'm thinking about it. He'll take you where you want to go.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
It's exciting. It's great when someone passes on their good ideas and they're good ideas for you as well, because that doesn't always happen at all. I read that you have synesthesia where music can translate into colors. And I wonder, is there a colour that makes you feel more extreme? Or is there such a thing as a good colour or a bad colour?
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Lorde
No, good colours. No bad colours. Some colours drain me of my power. Some colours give me power when I have none.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Is it always the same colours that give and take or do they change?
- [08:59]
Lorde
No, it changes. I feel like. And I sort of feel this way about, like, men's clothing versus women's clothing. Some days wearing going too far in one direction will, like, drain me of all my power and vice versa. And that changes too. But I feel like color wise, I mean, I'm from New Zealand and we all wear a lot of black. We're a nation of black wearers.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Why is that, do you think?
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Lorde
I don't know why that is, actually. I feel like we're quite sort of modest and also strong and we want to, you know, in black you can hide, but you're also. There is a strength and maybe it's. I mean, that's sort of what it was for me. I felt very, like, reinforced when I wore black and I felt grown up and. Yeah, I could, like see myself on the page or something. So I wore a lot of black. I'm wearing less black now. I think I'm actually wearing a lot of gray and silver and stuff. I don't know why, but I'm liking that. Anything like metal, anything metallic or. Yeah, there's sort of like. There is a materiality to what I've been wearing at the moment and I haven't I don't really deviate from it, but I'm trying to think color wise. I'm actually. I've also just started wearing red. I never had any interest in wearing red. It felt like, I don't know, it just. It wasn't something I could connect with. And now I. And now I'm in on red.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Great. That's so interesting.
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Lorde
It's cool. It's a. Cool.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
It's quite a commitment, isn't it? It's so alluring and beautiful, but it's hard to keep oneself in it. Put it on and then like, oh gosh, am I measuring up to the red? That's what I often find.
- [11:29]
Lorde
Yes, yes. No, it's. It's funny, I know I went blonde a couple years ago and it was like. It was like a light bulb was on over my head in the way that like men were so interested in it and it was just like, you know, it was like they could see me. All of a sudden I was like, really? That's all it took, like going blunt. So it's so silly, you know.
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Advertiser
But.
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Lorde
That also, you know, you can get lost in that for sure. And I definitely feel like I did.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
It's kind of thrilling though. It's a useful thing to know these things, how to switch on and off. It's great. I wondered if there was a piece of clothing you were obsessed with as a child.
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Lorde
What were my special bits? I had these brown boots that I really loved. Brown leather boots. I remember going to. I must have been. This is right before my 10th birthday being taken to. There was sort of a chain for young girls in New Zealand that was sort of specifically for kind of preteen girls. It was called Urban angel and it was like, oh, it was so cool. It was like, I don't know, it just really. There was something about stepping into this room where Urban angel was and you sort of knew that you were on the precipice or in between these two worlds. You weren't a little girl anymore. Like, maybe there was some kind of padded camisoles and such in there, but no bras, you know. And things were about to change. And I remember I had like a couple of cool, I don't know, T shirts from Urban angel that were very, very cherished by me.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Such a key thing, isn't it? Those special things for that moment of cusp. When you're sort of moving into preteen and you're allowing yourself to be noticed for how you look and it's such a big deal. And so exciting.
- [13:58]
Lorde
Absolutely.
- [14:00]
Fashion Neurosis Host
And you're never tentative or you never seem to be tentative. And when you put work out, people get it immediately and you seem to expect to be understood. And I wondered where that kind of deftness comes from.
- [14:16]
Lorde
Wow. Thank you. I like that that's how it's coming across. I feel like it's. Maybe sometimes it's more of a fear of being misunderstood. I find the feeling of being misunderstood very uncomfortable. Maybe we all do. But I definitely does something to me when I'm being misunderstood. So I. I think sometimes in my work I have tried to make it very clear. I don't know. Wait, what was the question last time? Bring back.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
It's like this kind of.
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Lorde
That was a good question.
- [14:59]
Fashion Neurosis Host
I mean, I sort of can relate to this kind of. This sense of this is how things need to be. But at a young age, because I found once I crossed 12, I became incredibly indecisive. But you've had this aura of sort of certainty, even though you're clearly seeming to make a lot of inquiries about everything. And it's such a remarkable quality. And I just wondered if you had some sort of feeling about where that. Where that sort of. It's almost like being a plant and you grow into something and it's just there written in you and you. I mean, that's what comes across in your music.
- [15:52]
Lorde
Thank you. You know, I think it's a combination of things. I think I grew up in a very loud, busy, turbulent household. A lot of big emotions. And I was a very sensitive child and words really mattered to me. I took people at their word and I was very confused by things not being clear. And so I think when I was coming into my own voice as an artist, I really prized things being clear in part as a sort of some sort of correction maybe around how chaotic it had been growing up, you know, with three siblings and my parents. And my mum is very strong and she's a poet. I wasn't super privy to her kind of being in her art when I was a child, but I. I definitely had experience with someone saying, this is how I see things. Her worldview is very rich and very singular. And so I think I had this great modeling for, I guess, yeah, world building, which I do now. So, yeah, so some combination of those things, I think.
- [17:48]
Fashion Neurosis Host
I know my father was like that. He was just so certain. And even when, you know, when he died, I thought maybe this will be a good thing for me to stop double checking everything through the imagina. You know, my imagined idea of his lens. And it was, you know, even though we were so close, it was quite a liberation when he did. It was like his last gift and. Which was a wonderful feeling to have that sort of thing that I dreaded to be a great gift. And. And you. You recently talked about going on a psilocybin weekend and doing MDMA therapy and I wondered what you were trying to shake up within yourself.
- [18:36]
Lorde
Mmm. Wow. Well, I sort of started as you pull one thread, then you unravel the whole sweater, you know. It started as I was trying to find a life after stage fright, because I had. Had really, really awful stage fright my whole life. I started doing like, local theater in my town when I was five because I was so shy. My mum thought it might help me be able to speak in front of other people and it totally did. But I. The amount of kind of anxiety and. Yeah, it was very physical stress. It was just like immense from. From that young age. And that really carried right through my work. And it did get quite debilitating at times. There were times when I, you know, really wasn't sure if I was going to be able to do the show and we would maybe lose a lot of money if I didn't do it, you know, like, it was volatile and I thought, I know I love performing and if there's a way I can live without this, I. I'll do anything, you know. And at that point, I had done everything. I'd done everything.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Gosh.
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Lorde
And was sort of, you know, told about this therapy, which was like, almost comical. How quickly it worked. Like, I did the. The MDMA therapy, which is sort of not similar to this. You're like lying on a. Lying on a sofa, maybe not quite as chica an office, and it was just open and shut. I knew, I almost knew before it was over that my stage fright wouldn't be with me anymore.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Wow.
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Lorde
Because it is really, for me, it really was just something like lodged quite deep in my body. And yeah, there was just sort of some conversation that needed to happen between me and sort of like different parts of my body. It sounds fruity, but was it like.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
A molecular change that transpired?
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Lorde
Totally, yeah. And that was so amazing and so kind of, you know, I was like, wow, okay, that's possible. That's cool. And then I did the psilocybin one for the first time. I've done a few now, but I did that for the first time really, because I was feeling this whole, like, symphony of things that were all along the line of I Don't feel at home in my body. And I never had, or I felt like I never had and I was sort of. I could feel myself looking in the wrong direction over and over and over.
- [22:13]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah.
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Lorde
And that sort of culminated with deciding that maybe the answer was not eating very much. And I just became this sort of small contained version of myself that then I would like have the answers or something and it was just so unpleasant and so really blocking of like all life force that I have and all creativity and. And just. Yeah, sort of, you know, created a very annoying, quite frankly kind of mess to have to unpick, you know. So. So, so I think that at some point, yeah, it was in 2023, the start of 2023. I just said I actually can't do this anymore. I'm interested in trying to forge a relationship with my body that feels healthy and real and I'm going to be in this body for the rest of my life. And I want to start now at trying to, yeah, really love it, really understand it and listen to its stories. And that really like changed my life. Honestly.
- [23:45]
Fashion Neurosis Host
No. So interested to read that your experience about that? Because I went through something similar as a when I was young and it was almost like a warped form of self care that self denial was self care. And did anyone confront you? How did you kind of wake up from that? Because it's quite trance like the feeling of control around that. I think that's why it's so pervasive. It's something you can do but it's so, you know, it's so reductive, literally and in every other way. And did anyone call you out about it?
- [24:28]
Lorde
No one ever called me out. I don't think anyone really knew. Almost no one would have known. I didn't even really know. I think you know, for a long time. Not until like, yeah, I didn't know. I think it's easy to be in denial about these things, especially if you. I don't know. For me it was like I had decided that I was not the kind of woman that would go through something like that.
- [25:05]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah, that. Gosh, that's so interesting.
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Lorde
You know, I'm a reader, you know, and I would read all sorts of texts about women not eating, women's relationships with their body. So like I understood it on this theoretical level but I was still trying not to eat. Yeah, I know.
- [25:27]
Fashion Neurosis Host
And there's so much shaming around it and often from people very close to you. That was my experience of. It's terribly alarming when someone Calls you out without offering you help, really. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about that. And it's so isolating and lonely.
- [25:53]
Lorde
Yeah, it sort of felt like this sort of noble woman's work or something. I was like, this is what you do. This is what women do. You know, we limit ourselves because the opposite, to be fully embodied, fully wild, fully in connection with all of these parts of yourself and therefore your world seems dangerous. And we should be doing all that we can to keep that danger contained. You know, I sort of. Yeah, I felt that I was stepping into this kind of distinctly female lineage and that it was sort of my duty and it's just. God, like, what a. I completely reject that notion now. I'm like, the opposite is true. I think.
- [26:59]
Fashion Neurosis Host
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- [28:56]
Lorde
Absolutely. Oh, no. Yeah. I mean, I think. I sort of think it doesn't matter how powerful you are at work or in life, you know, you're gonna keep Electing that person over and over. I don't know if that's. If that's a path you just need to kind of go down until you don't need to go down anymore. And you know, I left home very young. My mum travelled with me but I was really sort of out of my family home from 16 and not just out of my family home but out of my country and my whole side of the world. You know, I really found the change between life in New Zealand and life in America very significant and very sort of complicated and scary and different and you know. Yeah, I just started trying to shelter with someone, you know, it was like a survival. Felt like for my survival I needed to be picking someone to. I don't know. Yeah. To be God.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah.
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Lorde
This was also like part of the. What I have found to be a sort of after effect of the psilocybin work that I've done is that I'm able to come towards those godlike parts of myself a lot more. And also, you know, nothing makes you feel like more of a speck and that it's not really going to be any other human being. Who's God for you? You know, it's something much bigger than that.
- [31:05]
Fashion Neurosis Host
I think it's true. It's a bit of a kind of fantasy of that you don't really want to come true. It sort of delegates the responsibility for a minute of decision making. But then you seem infinitely able to be God when you want to in your songs.
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Lorde
Me? Well, I'll take it.
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Fashion Neurosis Host
I really like that you describing that though, that you finding those specks of it within yourself because I suppose finding it possible to have those things at the same time that. That you enjoy. One can enjoy having a sort of person that you occasionally delegate as God but sometimes that's you and that's. That's kind of exciting.
- [32:03]
Lorde
Oh yeah. And very necessary, I think, especially in my position. I think that if you're going to stand up there in front of all those people, it has to really be you standing up there.
- [32:22]
Fashion Neurosis Host
And you described going to the man of the year award and wearing a hot girl dress but you felt more affinity with the cool guys. And what would you wear as a cool guy?
- [32:35]
Lorde
What do you wear as a cool guy? I mean, I would wear this jacket, probably these trousers, you know, but I'm sort of girl today. I've got my heels on, my little top. So it's sort of always a combo. What would I wear as a hot guy? I feel like, I don't know I mean, I have been wearing suits since I was a teenager. Recently I've been wearing, yeah, lots of old Margiela old helmet, you know, just sort of like the classics T shirt. Just like keeping it pretty basic and almost unimpressive. I remember actually David Byrne being such a inspiration for this album because Stop Making Sense was re released into the theaters at some point when I was in the studio and I went to see it so many times. I've seen it, you know, a million times on a laptop screen over the years, but I'd never seen it in the cinema. And what struck me was his purity. He was radiating out from under his own skin. There was nothing between his spirit and me. He was dressed very plainly and his haircut was very simple. He was sort of unadorned. He was like a monk, you know, and that really worked on me. It was just sort of his eyes and his cheekbones and his voice, you know, his dark hair. And I remember actually in the theater knowing in that moment, you've gotta dye your hair back dark. You're not supposed to be blonde. Take away as much possible between the spirit inside you that where the art comes from and the people who are going to be looking at you because the membrane can be this thin the way it is between the viewer and David, and stop making sense. So, yeah, I forgot about that actually.
- [35:09]
Fashion Neurosis Host
How inspiring that was, that purity and that integrity. And I wondered if you fancy someone don't like something that they're wearing. Does it kill your attraction?
- [35:25]
Lorde
Yeah, I think it would. I think it would. I'm always. I'm lucky, though. I feel like everyone I. Everyone I date or hook up with, they're all really good dressers. I don't know what that's about, but they always are.
- [35:47]
Fashion Neurosis Host
It's funny how that can be either really specific or just nothing really. But everyone seems to have something either from completely phobic. Like Heide Ackerman said, he's literally phobic about buttons. And he was kissing this guy and then he noticed that he had three buttons on his. One of those T shirt things. And he just had to back off and leave and just go, yeah, I.
- [36:19]
Lorde
Have things that, you know what mine are like that mine would be. There's a way of dressing that I see a lot in la, which is like sort of the cool, crazy hat and the cool crazy sunnies and the cool crazy shoes and the cool crazy haircut. And you could sort of make a cool outfit if everything else was plain. And you had one cool crazy thing. But all Together combines to be totally cuckoo. I always think that's what would make me not kiss you. If you had too many. Too many elements of, you know, strong flavor.
- [37:10]
Fashion Neurosis Host
That's a good description. And you've been quoted as identifying as in the middle, gender wise and that you're a woman, except for on the days when you're a man. And I wondered how you dress for that. And did you feel a bit boy, girl as a child?
- [37:29]
Lorde
You know, I have come to see in the last couple years that I think this is sort of true of children, that everything about you as an adult was already there. Mm. I was always that. I was always that there was. I never felt. I never really felt the presence of any gender, to be honest. As a child, I felt like, you know, a little creature. Sometimes felt like a fairy, sometimes. I was a big thinker, a big reader, big player, tree climber.
- [38:22]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Did you identify with any literary figures? Because I'm just as you're describing. I'm thinking of the Little Prince. Like, that is quite a kind of.
- [38:32]
Lorde
I did love the Little Prince.
- [38:33]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Encapsulation of every aspect of gender, really.
- [38:39]
Lorde
Yeah. Who did I. I mean, I read all sorts as a child, trying to think I didn't really feel like a little girl all the time. But it's funny now, like, I. I really do feel like a woman. Like I am a woman and I think I will always be a woman. It's just that there is this deep masculinity in me that actually enhances my womanhood. I think I feel like a woman. My femininity is. There just is a strength to it that sort of shares space with masculinity. I don't really understand. And I. You know, it's been interesting kind of talking about some of this and I do explore it in the album. I think it's quite difficult for people when you don't give them a neat answer to this sort of question. But I just don't think there is one to give. Maybe for me right now. But I do know that in sort of letting my masculinity in a bit more, it was sort of only then that I really felt like a woman. I understood feeling like a woman. And I do think I've made a distinctly kind of feminine record. I was trying to make something that was a document of my femininity in all of its kind of like, grotesqueness and intensity and glory and. Yeah. And innocence. And there just is masculinity contained within that. I think I also like, because I grew up, my Mum was so cool. She really, like. I knew about the concept of being androgynous, you know, from such a young age. And she would show me. I mean, she showed me Bowie. So young, you know, but also, like Grace Jones, just these figures who. You didn't need an explanation. They were the explanation.
- [41:09]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah.
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Lorde
Like, just them in their bodies. It was, like, understood. Say no more.
- [41:14]
Fashion Neurosis Host
What did you make of Bowie when. When you saw him when you were little? Because I agree, he seems to be like the great unifier of, like, artists, in a way.
- [41:26]
Lorde
I remember thinking there was something very childlike about him. You know how children can sort of. They sort of hone in on the adults who sort of still have something of a child in them. I could really see that in Bowie. I found him so beautiful. I found his elegance very kind of arresting. And to see that in this kind of gorgeous, hot guy, you know, it just all definitely remember. Yeah. Bowie and Grace Jones being these ingredients that once they went into the song, you know, then something was. Then we had a soup going on.
- [42:15]
Fashion Neurosis Host
God. Grace Jones is one of the great figures.
- [42:18]
Lorde
Just insane.
- [42:20]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah. Just so.
- [42:22]
Lorde
Yeah. You didn't need to. I didn't. There was no part of me that needed to ask why, like, it all made complete sense to me.
- [42:32]
Fashion Neurosis Host
So interesting that you recognize that right away. And then you yourself have had this very distinct style that has just touched everyone. As soon as you started, you know, those songs just went straight in. And it's still happening. In fact, your video for your new single, man of the Year, you tape your breasts with duct tape and in your Met Ball outfit, you. You had a kind of elegant version of that with a pleated bandeau and satin, and that was designed by Tom Brown. But did you collaborate on that together?
- [43:13]
Lorde
Yes. So I. That. I'd been wanting to do that video for man of the Year for maybe since the end of 2023. I knew that I would do that and that I would wear that tape a lot and kind of performing this album and communicating it to people. So, yeah, when Tom Brown asked if I wanted to go, I just showed them some of that imagery and asked if they. If they wanted to do that. And they were so cool that they wanted to, because it's definitely sort of, you know, outside of their language. So grateful to them for trusting me.
- [44:05]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah, it looked really good. You just look so wild and free and charming. It also reminded me a tiny bit of. I remember when, years and years ago, when I worked for Vivienne Westwood and she was looking. She wanted to make A corset. And we went to the Royal Opera House and to the costume department. She found this corset and it totally flattened the breasts, but then pushed them right up under the chin. And it was like you'd somehow discovered this version of it. Like you were suppressing and making a point of at the same time, which was really cool, really interesting.
- [44:45]
Lorde
Yeah, no, it's. I know, it's funny. You just like, this is what's so cool about clothing, is you. It is just about finding these different shapes that, like, allow something else to come through. Like, I just had the sense that if I was on that carpet essentially topless, that something would communicate about me that hadn't been communicated before. And it totally worked, you know, and, yeah, it was something that I hadn't seen. And sort of. That's just what it's about, I think. It's just. And you're so right, Vivienne Westwood, I mean, God, she was just the master of that, wasn't she? Of just showing us a part of the body that we're all so familiar with and just totally recontextualizing. And the clothes either sort of being the enforcer of that shape or supporting something naturally occurring. It's just so. Such cool, beautiful work. That's so cool. I forgot that you worked with her. That's amazing.
- [45:57]
Fashion Neurosis Host
And you seem like you're having quite a good time with your body at the moment and the. Which I wondered which clothes you're particularly enjoying to enhance this and because I saw an amazing picture of you wearing matching sort of bodycon YSL with Charli xcx. And that looked like you were having a great time. I wonder what that felt like. Like doing that together.
- [46:26]
Lorde
Oh, my gosh. I mean, when Charlie calls and is like, do you want to wear matching sailor on with me? You're like, mm, yeah. I actually love drawing that ysl. So, so beautiful. I remember it feeling quite girly for me, sort of, because I wanted to do the hair like her as well. And it was quite. I don't know about this curly hair, but I loved the outfit.
- [46:58]
Fashion Neurosis Host
I like the curly hair.
- [46:59]
Lorde
It's good.
- [47:00]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Like, you just. It had gone. Like I'd look kind of natural, pretty.
- [47:05]
Lorde
Much is, you know. No, that was cool. That was like. It's so cool. Actually doing that song with Charlie, I feel like, really has really did make me kind of step into my femininity in a different way. And it was cool to. Because we didn't make a video or anything for that song to mark the moment with this, like. Yeah, super kind of cool, bitchy, like, YSL strut, you know. Although she wore the stilettos on stage, which I don't know how she does that. That's crazy.
- [47:50]
Fashion Neurosis Host
You look like you were really enjoying it. And that's so kind of infectious. And, you know, both of you. And it was so interesting listening to the song that you, you know, the remix that you. You made of Girl. It's confusing and that you clarified a misunderstanding in your friendship through the song and you didn't turn against each other. And one of the lines is, I ride for you, Charlie. And there's something incredibly moving about that stage statement. And there's so many spats, public spats between artists or there are, you know, and. And it seemed really thrilling that you had done the opposite, that you'd resolved something in your relationship through a song. And I wondered who made the first move.
- [48:47]
Lorde
Well, she made the first move because the song was on her album, you know. Yeah. And then she reached out and sort of told me about it, explained it, and I completely understood straight away. I knew that it wasn't personal and, yeah, it was just an incredibly familiar feeling. I think every woman has, you know, some dynamic with another woman that is complicated and sometimes you don't even really know why, but it is. And, yeah, I just. I totally got it. And all my focus was on making it right with her on a personal level, but also understanding that, yes, two women were having this conversation, but also two symbols were having this conversation. And your purpose as a famous person is to be this mirror for people and for them to see you in all of your humanity and all of the kind of. Yeah, the ugly bits. Just for them to see it all and understand some. Something about. About their lives as a result, you know, And. And I understood that she was offering me. She was giving me a very powerful opportunity and gift really, to do this publicly and to. I felt safe to do it because she had been so vulnerable. Yeah, I couldn't believe how vulnerable she had been. I was so moved when I did hear that song. About 10 minutes later, I was like, okay, I've got to pull this up. And. Oh, it just destroyed me, you know, like, even separate to, like, it being about me. I was just like, oh, this girl's, you know, laying it all out on the. On the field. And, like, what an honour to get to do the same, you know, so it's cool.
- [51:17]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Yeah, it's very, very affecting and, like, so generous of you both to do that because it's Such a big deal. And, you know, there's so much invested in people being at odds with each other or being enemies. You know, there's so much glee. And you both did the opposite, but with so much kind of style. And two young women, you know, so. So successful and interesting, what you're both up to. And anyway, it made a real impression on me. I thought that was somehow rather that. Especially between two young women, where it just means everything, you know, it's like, God, look, this is a way of doing things. And then the song is so fantastic, you know, you just so. It's so great. You both. You know, hearing both your voices is wonderful.
- [52:26]
Lorde
It's very sweet of you. Thank you.
- [52:30]
Fashion Neurosis Host
And I wondered whose look you're liking at the moment and are you thinking about. Because you seem like you're kind of ahead of your own game all the time. So I just wondered where you're at.
- [52:45]
Lorde
Who am I liking at the moment? You know, I like. I sort of have this feeling at the moment that everything looks like something. Everything's got such a look, whether it's how people are dressing or. I don't know. I just. There's so much visual information. I sort of been trying to go about everything to do with this album based on how it feels and trusting that that will have its own aesthetic. But really prioritising feeling and aliveness. So to that end, I like. When I was making this album, I started looking at a lot of pictures of people who I always felt like looked like they were just wearing their own clothes. And I think about people like George Michael, about Sinead o' Connor, I think about Patti Smith, even people. You wouldn't necessarily think about Phil Collins or Thom Yorke, just these sort of. Phil Collins was, like, known for what he wore, but he just sort of always looked like Phil Collins.
- [54:00]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Such a good point. Brilliant.
- [54:02]
Lorde
But, yeah, I definitely. George Michael and Sinead and Patti and PJ Harvey, you know, just sort of having your thing and sticking to it and just kind of keeping it simple, you know, George Michael, it was just sort of like a T shirt and a leather jacket and jeans and a cap, you know, it was never that complicated. And he just looked fabulous and so like himself. And I don't feel like some people in my position are really wearing costumes. Really accentuates what they do and brings other parts of them out. For me, I think I just get lost.
- [54:53]
Fashion Neurosis Host
Certainly don't seem lost.
- [54:56]
Lorde
You don't feel lost, which is good.
- [54:58]
Fashion Neurosis Host
You don't seem it in any way. This country. Fantastic to talk to you.
- [55:04]
Lorde
Really? It's been. It's been a hair day for me. Sheesh. It's kind of good. Nowhere to hide on the couch. The hair.
- [55:13]
Fashion Neurosis Host
It's been so lovely to have you. Lauda. So lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on fashion. Your roses.
- [55:21]
Lorde
What a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
- [55:41]
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Fashion Neurosis Host
Discover Kanban podcasts, conversations and audio documentaries imagined by Chanel that explore what inspires fashion. Let's literature, cinema, dance and savoir faire. This series of rendezvous gathers artists and friends of the house. Listen to combo podcasts at Chanel Point Come and on the streaming platforms.