Fashion Neurosis with Nicky Haslam

Summary

Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud: Episode Featuring Nicky Haslam

Release Date: December 18, 2024

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud, host Bella Freud engages in an in-depth conversation with renowned fashion expert and cultural icon Nicky Haslam. The discussion traverses Nicky's illustrious career, personal style evolution, influential relationships, and her reflections on fashion's role in identity and society.

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Early Life and Family Influences on Fashion

Nicky Haslam delves into her aristocratic upbringing and how her family's sartorial choices shaped her early understanding of fashion.

• Wartime Fashion and Aristocratic Roots

  • [02:31] Nicky shares, "My parents were quite old. My mother was born in 1896, but her godmother was Queen Victoria."
  • She reminisces about wartime attire, highlighting her father's habit of changing his dinner jacket nightly and her mother's plain yet well-cut red and black clothes.

• Introduction to Haute Couture

  • [03:55] After WWII, Nicky and her mother visited Paris to witness Dior's revolutionary collection.
  • Although her mother found Dior's designs "ghastly," Nicky was inspired by Jacques Fat's creations, stating, "I think rich women dress at fat, smart women dress at fat."

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Education and Early Style Development

Nicky discusses her time at Eton and how she began forging her unique style beyond traditional uniforms.

• School Uniform and Rebellion

  • [06:27] At Eton, Nicky experimented subtly with her uniform by dyeing her hair blond and adding red lining, actions considered "absolutely taboo."

• Adopting the Teddy Boy Look

  • [07:13] Post-Eton, Nicky embraced the Teddy Boy aesthetic: "Skin tight, black and long jackets and Tony Curtis hairdos... the most wonderful look."

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Fashion Industry Experiences and Celebrity Interactions

Nicky recounts her extensive interactions with fashion legends and Hollywood stars, illustrating her pivotal role in the industry.

• Introducing Yves Saint Laurent to Vogue

  • [05:36] Nicky recounts how she facilitated Yves Saint Laurent's introduction to Vogue, leading to his first dinner at The Paviole: "She put a lot of Eve in the magazine. Yves came to New York for his first ever trip... and he took me out to dinner."

• Meeting Marilyn Monroe

  • [42:55] An emotional encounter with Marilyn Monroe is detailed:
    • "I went to Marilyn's apartment... She was an absolute wreck. She died three weeks later."

• Interactions with Mae West

  • [47:24] Nicky narrates her interaction with Mae West:
    • "She was a little mouse... She looked extraordinary."

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Personal Style Evolutions and Philosophy

Nicky shares insights into her personal style choices, including her affinity for Primark and her innovative hair techniques.

• Primark as a Fashion Staple

  • [01:39] Nicky explains her preference for Primark: "I like clothes that are sort of up to date and yet not identifiable. Primark is very clever at hitting the right fashion mark for a certain time."

• Innovative Hair Styling

  • [12:23] Addressing her white hair, Nicky describes her unique approach: "I do it with eyelash dye... It gives a bit of edge to the face."

• Facelifts and Personal Appearance

  • [20:26] On maintaining her appearance, Nicky shares:
    • "I had a full facelift once in 1990. Everything except the brow... It's never got away."

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'How Common' Project and Fashion Messages

Nicky introduces her 'How Common' project, a series of tailored questions and designs aimed at promoting ordinariness and commonness in fashion.

• Creating Relatable Fashion Statements

  • [35:38] Nicky discusses the inception of her project:
    • "Everybody went to St. Paul's School... It's about ordinariness, really."

• Expanding Beyond Traditional Media

  • [35:56] Initial ideas included T-shirts and loo paper, with the latter proving successful: "Your loo paper is not made in Bangladesh... It's spreading like wildfire."

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Reflections on Modern Fashion and Individuality

The conversation concludes with Nicky's thoughts on contemporary fashion trends, the loss of individuality, and her dedication to maintaining authenticity.

• Uniformity in Modern Attire

  • [15:10] Nicky laments the homogeneity in today's fashion:
    • "Nowadays everybody dresses exactly the same from morning till night. Especially men. Well, women too."

• Preserving Individuality

  • [54:24] Emphasizing the importance of unique personal style, Nicky asserts:
    • "I'm carrying the torch for individuality and originality and style."

• Nostalgia for Golden Age Fashion

  • [49:15] Nicky reminisces about the vibrant personalities of old Hollywood, contrasting them with today's more reserved standards:
    • "All those great movie stars just behaving like ordinary people... Everything they did was magic."

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Notable Quotes

• On Primark and Fashion Timing

  • [01:39] "Primark is very clever at hitting the right fashion mark for a certain time and then you throw it away."

• On Maintaining Appearance

  • [20:24] "Skin is the most plastic stuff there is... It's the easiest thing in the world."

• On Individuality

  • [54:34] "I'm carrying the torch for individuality and originality and style."

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Conclusion

This episode of Fashion Neurosis offers a profound exploration of Nicky Haslam's life, highlighting her significant contributions to fashion and her unwavering commitment to individuality. Through engaging anecdotes and thoughtful reflections, Nicky illustrates how fashion transcends mere aesthetics, serving as a powerful medium for personal expression and societal commentary.

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For more insights and episodes, visit www.fashionneurosis.com and follow @fashionneurosis_bellafreud on social media.

Transcript

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[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Fashion Expert]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Nicky Haslam]

Just like that.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah.

[Nicky Haslam]

No hassle?

[Fashion Expert]

None.

[Nicky Haslam]

That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience. Pick up. These may apply. Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Nicky Haslam.

[Fashion Expert]

I'm extremely happy to be here doing it.

[Nicky Haslam]

Can you tell me why you chose the clothes that you're wearing today and what you're wearing?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, I'm wearing head to toe Primark because I think they are rather brilliant and I like clothes that are sort of up to date and yet not. Not identifiable. And I think the primarch is very clever at hitting the right fashion mark for a certain time and then you throw it away. But the problem is they're so well made, you can't throw them away.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, that's a vote of confidence.

[Fashion Expert]

Yes, I'm very confident in Primark.

[Nicky Haslam]

And you come from an aristocratic family. I wondered how your parents dressed and how young you were when you diverged into your true self as you felt it.

[Fashion Expert]

My parents, my parents were quite old. My mother was born in 1896, but her godmother was Queen Victoria, so you could add that one up. And I really remember I was born just before the war, so they had sort of wartime clothes, but my father changed his dinner jacket every evening coming back for dinner from working in the city. And my mother wore sort of very plain red and black clothes. I mean, very well cut but not very distinguished because you couldn't buy clothes whilst during the war. But. But then she did take Me to Paris straight after the war to see the new look with Dior. And we saw the whole collection. Monsieur Dior's. And we saw Monsieur Dior. We saw the whole collection. My mother thought it was ghastly. I went and bought something of Jacques Fat instead. But it was always said that rich women dress at deal, smart women dress at fat. So she was right.

[Nicky Haslam]

God, that's fascinating. Did you agree? How old were you when you saw that?

[Fashion Expert]

And did you agree, God.

[Nicky Haslam]

What did you think of Dior when you saw it?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, I just remember the salon exactly as you think of it. That Dior gray with the little. With the chairs and a Runway and red curtains with the bob trees or pulling them back, you know, when the models came through. What I most remember, the models were so old because, I mean, they were. They seemed old to me. They probably weren't. They were like 30. But they were famous for moving perfectly. And they. As they moved, they showed them exactly how the dress was cut. And the customers used to stop them and feel the material and check out the frock as it passed them. And they all give these names they said would come out and then a la page. It was so funny having these names. But it was very moving to see because it was very organizedly beautiful.

[Nicky Haslam]

Sounds absolutely wonderful. Amazing that you can remember it from then. You know, it makes such an impression.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, it really did. Then later on, when I. When I met Yves Saint Laurent, introduced him to. Forced him on down of Reedland at Vogue because she thought only Balenciaga could make clothes. And I kept talking about this boy I'd met in Paris who was now working for Dior. And she kept saying, no, no, no, no. Finally she twigged and she put a lot of. She suddenly put a lot of Eve in the magazine. And Yves came to New York for his first ever trip to New York. And he took me out to dinner at the Paviole to thank me.

[Nicky Haslam]

Wow, that is absolutely amazing. So she found Yves Saint Laurent through you?

[Fashion Expert]

It really was through me.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

But the other. Interestingly, the only other time I went to the pavilion was that famous old dress designer, Mabochet.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, yes.

[Fashion Expert]

Who dressed the Duchess of Windsor.

[Nicky Haslam]

What? Wallace Simpson.

[Fashion Expert]

He made the. She made the famous wedding dress rather hideous, I thought it was. But he was a wonderful dress designer and a sweet man with wonderful taste. He'd be the interior designer, like all good, good dressmakers. Usually they started interior designers or a sort of room. Room designers rather than interior designers. They don't mean they make beautiful rooms. And Then they put beautiful clothes in them, Eve being exactly one of them.

[Nicky Haslam]

And what was it like for you when you were at Eton? Did you mess about with the uniform or did you revel in it?

[Fashion Expert]

I sort of fiddled about with my uniform. I dyed my hair blond, which wasn't very popular, and I had something lined in red, which was absolutely taboo. But otherwise I didn't matter around the uniform too much.

[Nicky Haslam]

Because you had everyone had their own uniform made at the local tailor, is that right?

[Fashion Expert]

What were they called, those tailors? Welsh and Jefferies. Afterwards they made suits for me for a bit. But I left Eton because when I left Eton I just wanted to look like a Teddy Boy. That was the sort of look I always thought was sexy when I was young. Skin tight, black and long jackets and Tony Curtis hairdos, you know, I thought that was the most wonderful look.

[Nicky Haslam]

Did you wear that?

[Fashion Expert]

Oh, yes. I've always been absolutely street conscious.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, it's true. You put your money where your mouth is. You don't seem to fantasize about these things as if they're not available to you. You do them before anybody else.

[Fashion Expert]

Well, as soon as I can, I suppose I see them on somebody else and say, I can do that. I mean, the mod look was absolutely. David Bailey says in his book that he and I invented the mod look long before the Beatles, their silly jackets.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, I was going to ask you about David Balian because your love of beauty has often entangled you with exceptional people in. Including him and I. Yeah, that's true. What did you feel when you first set eyes on him?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, through an extraordinary man called Simon Fleet who. Who picked me up, actually, which was, thank God, he did, in Trafalgar Square. And he was the most fascinating man. He knew everybody like Cecil Beaton, Oliver Messel and Freddie Ashton, all that world. Dada Cooper, everybody. And so I'd met all of them while I was at Eton and Chips Channel and all that whole famous world. I knew when I was like 16, 17. And when I saw David, I went to John French, a photographer was a great friend of mine and he said, come to the studio one day. And I went and there was these three assistants, Duffy, Donovan and David, all three on working on three pounds a week. And I sort of took one look at David and fell in love with him. He was the most beautiful thing I ever saw in my life. He was so good looking and we became great friends. In fact, he lived with me in my little house in Waterloo with his first wife, Rosemary, then with Jean for A bit.

[Nicky Haslam]

Gene Shrimpton.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah.

[Nicky Haslam]

God.

[Fashion Expert]

He brought Jean for dinner round one night, saying, you've got this new bird, etc. I said, well, never make anything of her. She's too gagged. Hideous.

[Nicky Haslam]

You got that one wrong. One of the few.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah. Then she became the bottom of water again. One of my closest friends. And of course, you had to have a scooter.

[Nicky Haslam]

Did you ride a scooter as well?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, only because David. I had to. I was becoming David. And then I went to America with him.

[Nicky Haslam]

And there was a. There was a famous interior designer in the 70s called Jeffrey Bennison, who. Who's invented shabby chic. He was known as Big Carol.

[Fashion Expert]

Big Carol with that group of bad, bad queens that lived around the west one. I forgot all their names were they. They invented that thing called Polari that came from them.

[Nicky Haslam]

They invented the whole thing.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, it's Polari. It's not Polarized, it's parlor. It's camp Italian. And they all spoke in it. Geoffrey spoke in it, too.

[Nicky Haslam]

And what did that mean? Varda haraya.

[Fashion Expert]

Like Italian for look at, va de. And then words were spelled backwards. Raya was hair spelled backwards. And then Kenneth Williams sort of took it up.

[Nicky Haslam]

And what did Big Carol wear?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, he was. He was quite. He wasn't slim, but his drag, which he wore to go on aeroplane. So men would pick him up when he went to Morocco, he'd wear drag. Oh, I've got these gentlemen holding my tights. They say, what, these Moroccan men? What go? Any tights? I have to wear tights to keep up my knickers. All this went on. But his drag was made by Eddie Calvert, the Man with the Golden Trumpet's mother. How about that?

[Nicky Haslam]

No.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah.

[Nicky Haslam]

God, that's niche. How amazing. And when I first met you, you were living in your house in Gloucestershire.

[Fashion Expert]

And you had no Hampshire.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, Hampshire was that.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, the first one was Hampshire.

[Nicky Haslam]

And you had. I remember meeting you and you had white bouffant hair and your. I think your heart had been broken. And then the next time I saw you, you had made a sort of metamorphosis into Liam Gallagher. And you looked incredible.

[Fashion Expert]

That's 20 years between that.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, really?

[Fashion Expert]

I hope I didn't have White wolf. I hope I had sort of mouse colored before her.

[Nicky Haslam]

I'm probably exaggerating.

[Fashion Expert]

I've always dreaded white hair. That's why I put this so called Daphne Guinness bit in the front.

[Nicky Haslam]

Can you tell me about your hair today?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, Janet Debottle, you know, Janet said to Me, you cannot have white hair. You've got to put some streaks in it. So I tried putting streaks in and it didn't. It looked too sort of Liberace, really. So I just thought, well, then I saw Daphne. I did not want else to have this thing in front, so I do it with eyelash dye.

[Nicky Haslam]

God, that's so good.

[Fashion Expert]

Well, once a week.

[Nicky Haslam]

It's so inventive.

[Fashion Expert]

I mean, it sort of makes. It gives a bit of edge to the face, doesn't it?

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, I. Apparently, it's really important to keep the top part of your hair darker if it starts to lighten.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah. Like old man's head gets darker in the back. Anyway, that strange thing.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, but the. The Liam Gallagher look was just such a masterpiece of reinvention. I mean, it wasn't even reinvention.

[Fashion Expert]

I done all the cowboy, you know, I. The cowboy at the ranch of the Hell's angel look and everything. When I lived in America. Loved all that look. Anything fashionable.

[Nicky Haslam]

How did that. Yeah. God, there's so many things to ask about these looks. But tell me, tell me in detail about the Liam Gallagher look. Because it was so glamorous and you looked so well.

[Fashion Expert]

I just thought he was simply wonderful. He wore those sort of clothes, rather like I'm wearing now, the action. This Primark thing is based on the. The Liam Gallagher revival. These colors are his colors. And I just thought he was wonderful. So I thought, well, let's do that one.

[Nicky Haslam]

And then I'd read. Or maybe it was an exciting rumour that went round that you dyed your hair, including your pubes.

[Fashion Expert]

Well, I think quite a lot of men do that, by the way. I still do. Nothing's worse than a grey bush. Nothing worse for the world.

[Nicky Haslam]

What do you dye it with?

[Fashion Expert]

Hair dye? I mean, it's the same as this.

[Nicky Haslam]

Just brush it on eyelash dye.

[Fashion Expert]

I have to use the eyelash dye because it's the easiest thing to do it with. But I don't think other men are quite so clever at doing their bits like I am. They probably use some beard dye.

[Nicky Haslam]

And if you fancy someone and you don't like something they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

[Fashion Expert]

Yes, completely. But I don't fancy anybody if I don't like what they're wearing. I mean, clothes. Clothes make people very attractive, I think.

[Nicky Haslam]

And are there any kind of allergic. Kind of sirens that go off with anything in particular?

[Fashion Expert]

No, I think if anybody gets it perfectly right, it's attractive, it looks wonderful. I mean, even if a farmer can look wonderful, in the right gear or a farmer, you know, especially. And also I think nowadays everybody dresses exactly the same from morning till night. Especially men. Well, women too. But the old days you saw things. You saw there were people in uniform. There were proper policeman uniforms, there were nuns, there were those boys in leather on motorcycles, know the. The couriers there was on different. Different attire, different looks of the street. Not everyone is exactly the same.

[Nicky Haslam]

I suppose all those different looks gave something to have a fetish about, didn't they? Which was so much more fun.

[Fashion Expert]

Yes, I think certainly there's uniforms for a fetish. People love that. But you're not, you're not allowed to wear. You get spat out of the street if you wear a uniform.

[Nicky Haslam]

Have you tried it?

[Fashion Expert]

Too sad. They were so wild. I mean God's uniforms were just amazing.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, I like the way people. I love a unit. I mean I suppose a suit is a bit of a uniform and I do love a suit.

[Fashion Expert]

But yes, a well cut suit isn't fantastic. I've got a few which is my best is one I found that's. It was made in Chicago 1939, 38 but it still fits me. I've had second hand sub. It's wonderful.

[Nicky Haslam]

Did your father pass you down anything or were they not to your taste?

[Fashion Expert]

He didn't have suits I liked, nor did my brothers. It really came up from the streets upwards rather than grandeur downwards.

[Nicky Haslam]

And what was the first streetwear that you adopted?

[Fashion Expert]

I suppose that sort of teddy boy look when I was almost pre eaten. So you would see these teddy. In our local town, Cheshire we'd see them lounging about outside the Isolde cinema. Insolent in their beauty with that sort of curled up black hair. And the long jackets, they were so glamorous.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, they really were. I think the proportion is so good. The long jacket and then the long.

[Fashion Expert]

The famous shoes. Brothel creepers.

[Nicky Haslam]

Brothel creepers were fantastic because in. In the punk time there was this kind of, you know, there was this gang warfare between part punks and Teds.

[Fashion Expert]

But punks, mods and rockers. Yeah, Punks and Teds.

[Nicky Haslam]

Punks and rockets.

[Fashion Expert]

Teds had gone out by the time punk came along, I think.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, there was sort of remnants because I remember being excited about being afraid to get sort of, you know.

[Fashion Expert]

Oh God, yes. There was that tension.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

And then you see there's newsreels of mods and rockers having fights. Right. And you notice they're all absolutely the most wonderful skins. They're thins and thin as rails. They've got glossy hair, all this rubbish about. They were underfed after the war. Completely untrue. People had much better fingers.

[Nicky Haslam]

Talking of which, do you work out? You're looking very spelled.

[Fashion Expert]

Never once, never been to Jim in my life.

[Nicky Haslam]

Really. You're looking very spelled.

[Fashion Expert]

That's not. I was. Cancer helped.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, Nicky. Well, only you would be able to make an asset out of that. You look so well and marvelous.

[Fashion Expert]

I didn't have very bad cancer, but the doctor had made. The oncologist had made a mistake. And when I was finally operated on, my. The famous Nata Ali, who's head of the nhs, he had to make an incision there, all the way down, huge. So when it was being sewn up, I just said to him, listen, Dorothy, can't you take a few more inches? And he did. He said, you won't have a belly button. I said, who the fuck cares? And he pulled it. It's never got it. It's never got away. God, never come back.

[Nicky Haslam]

That's amazing again. It's like you're brilliant. You seem to have an incredible kind of instinct for perfect timing and to even think of that at that time. Whereas instead of thinking, I wish I'd done that.

[Fashion Expert]

No, I did. I was. I kept thinking before he did it, I think. Can I ask. Do I dare ask him boring about that. I heal very well. I've got very healing skin, which is a great secret of any kind of facelift or.

[Nicky Haslam]

Have you had any facelifts?

[Fashion Expert]

God, yes.

[Nicky Haslam]

How many?

[Fashion Expert]

I had a full facelift once in 1990. Everything except the brow. I didn't need a brow lift, thank God, because that's the hardest bit. They can't put it anymore. And I went to a wonderful man called Brian Mayhew and I went to him and he said, yes, I can do. And I kept saying, but will it hurt? He said. I said, is it going to be. Is it going to show? He'd say, shut. Finally I said, I thought, the eighth time, will it hurt? And he said, listen, Nicky, he said, for what you want done, roughly, for vanity, I can do it by sleep. It's when people have their faces shot off in Afghanistan after worry. God, that was a bit of thought. It's the easiest thing in the world. Skin is the most plastic stuff there is and it's a complete. Having these expensive facelifts in California, complete rip offs. Mine was £3,000 and then I had the chin done, wattles done about 10 years later because it doesn't matter. Anybody's face lined as Long as you've got lines anywhere. Do you remember Bertie Hope Davies?

[Nicky Haslam]

Yes.

[Fashion Expert]

Or Nan Kempner.

[Nicky Haslam]

I never met her.

[Fashion Expert]

But they all had lined faces but they had clean chins. It's the most important thing in the world for a man or a woman. Have a clean. No, no skin here.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

Then you can wear beautiful clothes and everything.

[Nicky Haslam]

Also lines are fine, but jawline is everything, isn't it? It's. It's just. I suppose it's a reminder of always. There you are in there. Even if things have changed a bit.

[Fashion Expert]

I don't get lines on it, even though I haven't even got bra lines there. But if I did, I wouldn't mind. Yeah, as long as they look neat.

[Nicky Haslam]

And so you've only had one facelift and a neck lift. You look pretty fantastic and ages ago.

[Fashion Expert]

But I had it done at the right time. Or if you haven't done young, if you haven't done.

[Nicky Haslam]

What do you think's the best age to have a facelift?

[Fashion Expert]

I suppose I must have been about 60. No, something like that. I just thought the time has come.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

You know, you sort of know and.

[Nicky Haslam]

You'Ve met everyone from Queen Elizabeth to Andy Warhol to. Did you meet Wallis Simpson?

[Fashion Expert]

Yes, I did. I loved her really. She was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful woman and I'm glad to see she's getting recognition as a new book. So I've got a review about her, sort of reinhabiting her. She was extraordinary. So nice.

[Nicky Haslam]

What did you love about her?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, she was so a. She was astonishing looking. I mean, not beautiful, astonishing chic and well, makier and coffee and everything but. Sorry to be cough. Don't worry. When I first met her, I was asked, I was. Whether I worked on Vogue in New York and the social editor said to me, would you like to have lunch with the Duchess? Would I? So we go to the Colony, the famous colony with a lot of other grand ladies and we sit at the famous booth at the end so you. Where we had to have. Everybody could see you going to, you know, the sort of New York thing. And suddenly there was a place beside me and suddenly there was a total silence in the room and the Duchess had come in, the door was standing there and people went. Then you heard teaspoons drop. She looked so extraordinary and so ravishing and fresh in a wonderful Dior suit, black gloves, black handbag, bow in her hair. And she walked through the room, sort of saying, gently saying hello to friends. She came down, she said, hi, Wallace, straight off. So I said hello or Something. And then the woman was giving the lunch. She said I had long hair at the time. And the kitty said, we called Nikki our beetle. And I said the Beatles. Don't you just love them? You can't admit she was wonderful. And she sang Yay, yay, yay and all that. She was kindest. The word is sassy really. She wasn't bright. She was funny and sassy and she made the party go and she was incredibly kind. If she said she'd do something, she did it. If she said, I'll see you. She was on time. I loved her.

[Nicky Haslam]

And can you tell me more about your biker boy? So you were a biker boy in Arizona? There's no style that's off limits to you. You're not snobbish in any way about a look?

[Fashion Expert]

No. I met a lot of biker sort of Hell's angel boys with their Harleys in some Phoenix and we all got together. We started a shop to make choppers Harleys and it was called the Chopper Shop. Well God, how original with these. All these Os from. From Phoenix and I had that gear I some. I still got my Hell's angel jacket. Then how did you. The singer used to borrow.

[Nicky Haslam]

No.

[Fashion Expert]

When she sang. Yeah, when she was. I had the jacket and in New York and then the Hayes Angels things. But Nick used to borrow the jacket. There's a pictures already. I've still got it.

[Nicky Haslam]

God. And. And how did you. How did you meet them? Were you in love with someone?

[Fashion Expert]

What the Hell's angel was one was just incredibly good looking. You look like sort of. You look like R.J. wagner or one of those 50s 70s movie stars. And I think we. I was filling up my car and he stopped and he mentioned something and I. I said God, I love your bike. He said why'd you get one mate? Or something. So it'll happen like that.

[Nicky Haslam]

That's so good.

[Fashion Expert]

And they used to come and stay at the ranch or lunch at the ranch.

[Nicky Haslam]

Did you have a ranch there?

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, I bought a ranch outside Phoenix breeding horses. That was the cowboy fashion. Who hasn't. Who hasn't wanted to be a cowboy? Getting the clothes right for that's very important.

[Nicky Haslam]

For the cowboy or for that.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah.

[Nicky Haslam]

What were you wearing?

[Fashion Expert]

You wear Levi jeans, Ragnar jacket on something else shirt. You never have the same. All three matching. You never had the same brand.

[Nicky Haslam]

What was it? Wrangler Levi's. And Lee was it leash?

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah. Levi jeans, Wrangler jackets and leisure. You're off your right.

[Nicky Haslam]

God. Seems early on that you shed Any idea of English snobbery that might have been lurking in your own background? And yet your how common rulings have struck a chord among high and low society.

[Fashion Expert]

Well, they're not so. Not so much common. It's not in fish knives and mirrors and things. It's more what a noise. One things that used to be sort of exclusive but then everybody has it like rescue dogs and things. I mean, these girls who live in the country, the rich hedge funds wives, have every Birkin bag and every chandelier and a rescued dog. It's sort of fashionable. It's so tragic.

[Nicky Haslam]

Your Christmas tea towel with your how common list on is a island a must have in our household.

[Fashion Expert]

Well, I hope it spreads. Spread the word.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, it's spreading like wildfire. I think one of my favourite how commons was loving your parents.

[Fashion Expert]

That was the original one. Really, that was. Should I tell you the story of that?

[Nicky Haslam]

Yes.

[Fashion Expert]

There was a. One of my youth, there was a wonderful old woman called Lady Juliet Duff. She was very grand, the mother of Michael Duff. You might have met Michael. And her mother was Lady Ripon, who'd bought the ballet of the Agnev Ballet to England. She was an extraordinary woman, great and very aristocratic. And she lived near Cecil Beaton in Wiltshire. And she was always having slightly sort of on edge with Cecil because. And I was staying with her and she was talking to Cecil on the telephone and getting quite cross. She put it down and she said, one can tell Cecil's common loves his mother. Thank God, because parents didn't love their children then.

[Nicky Haslam]

God, that's so interesting.

[Fashion Expert]

It wasn't fashionable. You just gave the child to Daddy and forgot it.

[Nicky Haslam]

And how did you. What was your experience of that? Because you seem so sort of well grounded in yourself and people are famously kind of reduced by this abandonment at such an early age.

[Fashion Expert]

I was lucky because I had polio and my mother had a wonderful Austrian. Can you believe the word ladiesbane. Never think you'd hear them again, would you? Who sort of became. She was my mother's maid is made in London. And then when I got polo, she became my sort of looker after. She was Theresa and she was the love of my life. I adored her much more than my parents wanted me with her. And she was gay and funny and loved movies and would tell me. Would come back from the movies and tell me about seeing Bob Hope in. I know the movies and sort of bebop. She was amazing. And my parents, when they were hardly there, hardly the only thing my mother did in the evening she used to had a gramophone in my room and she used to bring her smart friends in, roll up the carpet and dance to foxtrots on for the grammar phone in my bedroom, which was quite funny.

[Nicky Haslam]

Gosh.

[Fashion Expert]

But Teresa really looked after your daughter. Right. She was central to my life. The first half I went to Eton, cocky, came back, was rude to her, and she left the next day.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, no. Gosh. But she really showed you love and that clearly made you strong.

[Fashion Expert]

It was so moving, I can't tell you.

[Nicky Haslam]

So you were the love of her life as well?

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, maybe. Well, we'd been through a lot together with polio. I mean, she wiped my bumps and everything. I couldn't do anything.

[Nicky Haslam]

How old were you when you had polio?

[Fashion Expert]

7.

[Nicky Haslam]

And how long were you in bed for then?

[Fashion Expert]

About 18 months. The thing took about 18 months. I was in bed for, I suppose, nearly a year, in a cast. I couldn't move. And then I had to be taught to walk and go to trees and help with that and everything.

[Nicky Haslam]

When I lived in Marrakech when I was seven, I spent a lot of time with this woman. Looked after me when my mother had gone to Algeria, and she looked after children who were. And she was a nurse, rehabilitating them from polio. And they used to rush around on all fours with their calipers. Yeah, And I used to do that, too, but I didn't have any callipers. And I used to love scuttling about, pretending. I remember. It's so perverse when you're a child. I just remember I wished I'd had polio so I could be like them.

[Fashion Expert]

That's very, very. What's it called, reversal of fortune department.

[Nicky Haslam]

I know I'm obviously very lucky I didn't. But that was.

[Fashion Expert]

Oh, of course, with James. You're James. I went through a big skinhead fashion phase.

[Nicky Haslam]

Really?

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah.

[Nicky Haslam]

So my ex husband, James Fox, who was he a big love of? I know obviously you're not romantically involved.

[Fashion Expert]

But I was insanely in love.

[Nicky Haslam]

And when did you meet him? When did that happen?

[Fashion Expert]

I met him at Catherine Guinness coming Out dance, and Romana McEwen introduced us. And James was sitting in a corner with that slight scowl, that sort of beautiful scowl he had. Bored. I think he was a great friend of mine, Rory's, and I just felt loved looking at him. And we started talking and I said, I love it. And he said, call me. Give me a number. And I went. I called him next day from that call box in the Sloane Square Clifton Place. I sort of practically kissed the call box. And he said, let's have lunch. And we became great, great friends. God, I adore him.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah, he's wonderful. He's the best. When was that? In the 70s.

[Fashion Expert]

It was when I had the Rajshah. 60s.

[Nicky Haslam]

60S. God.

[Fashion Expert]

Because I was living at the Rochester, Arizona, but I'd come over for a long summer.

[Nicky Haslam]

How does. How common manifest? Is it like a grudge brewing up or like a sudden revelation?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, I used to do one comment a week with Simon Mills in the Evening Standard. I remember it sort of came from that. And then somebody said, why don't you do a collection of them? And of course we thought it was on T shirts, but it doesn't really work on T shirts. I don't know why it doesn't work. Then we thought on loo paper. Unbelievably expensive. Your loo paper is not made in Bangladesh, I'll tell you.

[Nicky Haslam]

No, I think the Tea Towel is. Is a real hit.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah.

[Nicky Haslam]

And have you got any new ones up your sleeve that you could share.

[Fashion Expert]

With us on the new. On the present one. St. Paul's School.

[Nicky Haslam]

Any particular reason?

[Fashion Expert]

Everybody went to St. Paul's School. Everybody, whatever meets went to St. Paul School.

[Nicky Haslam]

So it's about. It's about sort of.

[Fashion Expert]

It's about ordinariness, really.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

As well as commonness. What other gender reveals? There are lots. There are 40. I go books on decoration. I thought that stabbed my own trade. Be quite funny. Bach, I put on it.

[Nicky Haslam]

Bach, yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

Everybody said, oh, I love Bach. Oh, I love Bach.

[Nicky Haslam]

I love Bach too. But I like it because it's so, you know, mainstream and you. It's probably one of those music. Those tunes you hear on the, you know, the Gap, the link on the. In Gatwick. Yeah, one of those tunes. A sort of famous classical bit of music. And I think on a loop.

[Fashion Expert]

On a loop.

[Nicky Haslam]

And it's not Wagner, but it's something like that and it's. Oh, it's just bliss.

[Fashion Expert]

I love I, I, I. Opera is a great thing of mine. I love it. But not. I don't really like early, early music. I like sort of 1800 onwards, especially French.

[Nicky Haslam]

Who's your favourite at the moment?

[Fashion Expert]

I don't know. I listen to Radio 3 and they do. Oh, yeah, they do have wonderful. In the Middle of the Night, they do. Very young, modern composers. They're marvellous people.

[Nicky Haslam]

And are you attracted to common, Common people? I don't know.

[Fashion Expert]

Commonness. Am I attracted to rough trade? You're trying to say.

[Nicky Haslam]

Of course.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah. Well, they're more fun than smooth trade, aren't they?

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

I mean there aren't any rough trade anymore. I mean the whole gay thing's gone completely, hasn't it?

[Nicky Haslam]

Has it?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, everybody's gay or everybody's not gay. Nobody knows anymore. When I was younger there was a definite set you were gay. It was such fun, you know. One knew what all people nowadays gays seem to get married to have babies and be so boring.

[Nicky Haslam]

Do you think it's to do with. There's no transgression and that's not stimulating?

[Fashion Expert]

Yes. Yeah, that may be but I think it's oddly enough to do with like in the end plants grow to have two sexes were gradually changing into being bisexual, whatever it is. Bi productive.

[Nicky Haslam]

I liked proper common things like when Kate Moss was saying. Talking about when she was. She wanted a pair of shoes with ankle straps and her mother said that they ankle straps were common and then Coleman seams.

[Fashion Expert]

They were rather. She's right.

[Nicky Haslam]

Were they? Why?

[Fashion Expert]

But Peeptail shoes were common when I was young. People had peep toe shoes showing them red nail. People thought that was unbelievably common. And the ankle straps were. They were quite sort of tarty really. I mean people. The tarts started picking their knees. Not picking because Park Lane used to wear them.

[Nicky Haslam]

Because they were suggestive.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nicky Haslam]

I mean those things are just divine really, aren't they? I mean they. At least they remind you.

[Fashion Expert]

I think Hollywood brought them in as a. As a. Made them fashionable because so many of the Hollywood stars wore those sort of clothes.

[Nicky Haslam]

I'm sure Marilyn Monroe would have worn an ankle strap.

[Fashion Expert]

She was a bit post that wasn't shabby. She was just a generation after.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

Poor Baron.

[Nicky Haslam]

So Wallace Simpson would never have worn an ankle strap.

[Fashion Expert]

No, she wouldn't. No. I don't think she thought the covered toe was smarter. But Marilyn might have done it with it. She certainly wasn't when I met her.

[Nicky Haslam]

When did you meet her?

[Fashion Expert]

Was sort of tragic really. When I was working at Vogue she was doing that last film let's Make Love or Something's Got to Give. And Bert Stern had done a big thing off her photo shoot in which she was naked, which is the first time she'd ever been naked. And the layout department where I worked there was this whole thing on those pin boards with the mag. They didn't want to know who it was. Nobody was allowed to know who it was. Just called the old lady and 20 pages or more and Alex Lieberman and Diana Rena would come in, sort of move around and nod to each other. And finally I asked Priscilla Peck, the art director, who had become very chubby. I said, you've got to let me know who it is. And she said, you're not telling anybody, but it's Marilyn Monroe. So I thought, yeah. And then the suit comes, and Dick sends in the legs and the color and everything, and they start laying on. And then suddenly some realizes that Marilyn has picture approval. And so Priscilla said to me, as you're the only person who knows, will you take the sheet of your red china graph and envelope, please? Take these contact sheets up to Ms. Monroe on 75th street and gather to approve them. So I go to Marilyn's apartment, ring the doorbell, and a dog barks, very literally. A long pause, and the dog barks again. And finally the door opens, and there is Marilyn, a wreck. Greasy face, terrible hair, dirty tracksuit with grease stains around the neck, no shoe. I mean, really a wreck. Crying, oh, my God. And she opens the door. I said, Ms. Van. Ms. Peck says, would you look at it? She said, I haven't got time now, honey. And I said, oh, please. She said, oh, maybe. So she kept the door open. I'd give her the contact sheets. She put her fingers, her nails through the one she didn't like. No, it took about five, six minutes.

[Nicky Haslam]

Gosh.

[Fashion Expert]

And then a telephone rang at the back of the apartment and the dog barked. I said, I gotta go now. And she left the door open. She ran down. The thing was obviously Bobby Kennedy or somebody calling her. She was an absolute wreck. She died three weeks later.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, my God.

[Fashion Expert]

Extraordinary sight of them.

[Nicky Haslam]

What a story. Do you think you managed to rescue a few of the pictures because the phone went.

[Fashion Expert]

Oh, I never thought I was stupid. Should have slipped a contact sheet by Levi's shirt.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, God, that's so heartbreaking and fascinating. Wow.

[Fashion Expert]

Well, I had met her once before. I noted you're rather glamorous. Only at a party, I think.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, you succeeded. I mean, your pleas obviously touched her, and she gave approval, at least to some of them. I mean, they're such extraordinary photos.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah, she X'd the collar. I remember putting the red shirt on the collar one. The one I did meet, I loved was Jade Mansfield.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, really?

[Fashion Expert]

She was a wonderful Jade Mansfield.

[Nicky Haslam]

In what way?

[Fashion Expert]

Well, a sort of joke. What? That amazing candy there, you know, sweet face and great fun and rather intelligent, I imagine there is called Toots Shaws for New York. And we sort of bonded. I used to get have supper with her she had a. She was living with a policeman in I. Somewhere in Brooklyn. With that daughter, the Hargitay daughter. Oh, yeah, but she. She was adorable. Jane Mansfield. I love Ropey. Movie stars. I love movie stars. They're my favorite thing in the world.

[Nicky Haslam]

Who is it? Who was your other. Is there anyone now who you think is in the same caliber?

[Fashion Expert]

Not really. Because they don't behave like stars. They're not allowed to. Their press agents won't let them in front of a camera for more than two seconds. In the old days, they used to be in restaurants and necking with people and, you know, when I went. We used to go to El Morocco. You'd see all those great movie stars just behaving like ordinary people. But I met a lot and I met all that Cary Grant, all that world. I met all the big movie stuff, except Lana Turner, who was my favourite. Somehow she evaded me.

[Nicky Haslam]

Did you meet Rita Hayworth? I always loved her.

[Fashion Expert]

I did. When I knew her. Daughter by the by Ali Khan. Funnily enough, I'm not glamorized by Rich Hayworth or nor Elizabeth Taylor. I find them. There's something false about them. But I like older ones, like Verla Loy, all that acting ones. They're so brilliant.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

And I was at a premiere of Sweet Charity, that movie. I was between Cary Grant and Dorothy Lamour.

[Nicky Haslam]

God.

[Fashion Expert]

And Dorothy said to me, you're English, are you? And I said, yes, I know England quite well. This is the sweater girl. You know, they got the sarong that would go on every tropical island. I said. She said, I come to England. I said, why? She said, I've got knitting mills in Scunthorpe. What?

[Nicky Haslam]

That is insane.

[Fashion Expert]

Is it extraordinary.

[Nicky Haslam]

God.

[Fashion Expert]

Wow.

[Nicky Haslam]

That's the most brilliant.

[Fashion Expert]

Had to be Scunthorpe, didn't we? Just to make it wonderful.

[Nicky Haslam]

Haven't heard that word for a million years. That's so good.

[Fashion Expert]

Mae west was followed, although.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, did you meet Mae West?

[Fashion Expert]

Yes. Well, I sent Dear Arbus. After. When I had. After I worked on Berg, I worked on a medical show.

[Nicky Haslam]

Yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

Which was like Valle de Fair, which wasn't printed at the time. Valle de Fer. And this magazine called show was the Arts and Actors of the. And my father always said that Mae west was the sexiest woman he'd ever seen, which she. Suppose she was when she was young. And I read that she was retired and had a film with him. So I said to Diane Albers, he used to sit on. I sit on my desk at my office crying because she Couldn't get any work. Let's go. Why don't you go and photograph Mae West? And she did. She went out and photographed her. The photographs, the COVID of Dion Albus book. And Mae west was in bed with two monkeys called Toughie and Pretty Boy in a sort of terrible chemise. Dirty old chemise. All the hair piled up. She looks extraordinary. And she took to Diane and I think asked Diane to stay with her while she was. Because Diana was writing the piece. And then about three years later, or four or five, I was at the ranch. Mark Palmer had come stay at Catherine. We drove to Hollywood and Jules and Doris died. Asked us to a party at that house up in the hills. Heavenly Misty Mountain. And Doris Sullivan said she produced this tiny little woman in a cardigan. Green card with red flowers on this. I said, do you know May West? You couldn't believe it. No, she was the opposite of what you see. This great tiring thing with blonde hair and bust and everything. She was a little mouse.

[Nicky Haslam]

God, I've never ever heard that. I mean, she's. She's just such a unmistakably recognizable person.

[Fashion Expert]

Exactly.

[Nicky Haslam]

It was just.

[Fashion Expert]

And she also said that I put her in the magazine, revived her career because she did that film with Timothy Dalton afterwards. And another one did two more films after that. Got her back in front of the cameras.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, you're a taste maker and a style maker.

[Fashion Expert]

I'm so good to people.

[Nicky Haslam]

You are, Nicky. Well, you've been very good today and thank you so much for coming on. Fashion Neurosis.

[Fashion Expert]

I'm loving it. Can't we go on?

[Nicky Haslam]

We can. Oh, God, So many things to ask you. I can hardly think, but. And who. Who do you think? Are there any bands that you like at the moment who you think are really, you know, have got something that would go somewhere. I mean, you're so noticing.

[Fashion Expert]

Listen to them, but. And sometimes I hear his song. I think it is rather wonderful, but I sort of don't know who it is I'm doing. I've just got all my own. All the tapes of my cabaret that have been delivered to me.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, yes, I came to see you.

[Fashion Expert]

Yeah. And I want to do a. I think it's called a down. Apparently, CD is a Frappio fashion. It's got to be a down low. As they went tweaking them up. And they do sound. I mean, talk about easy listening. It's like Mel Torme or somebody. The old days. But they are quite sweet. The songs are wonderful.

[Nicky Haslam]

They're great.

[Fashion Expert]

Sort of unknown. Cold water, of course, known Cold water was one of the great things of my life in New York.

[Nicky Haslam]

How did that come about? How? Tell me.

[Fashion Expert]

Oh, there was a wonderful woman called Jean Howard who wrote a marvelous book of photography called Gene Howard's Hollywood. We never got it. No, you have to get it.

[Nicky Haslam]

I will.

[Fashion Expert]

And she was a. She'd been. Went to Hollywood as a movie star. As a movie starlet. And hated being in front of the cameras. And was Louis B. Mayer. Fell in love with her, tried to kill himself. And then she married Charlie Feldman, the great agent.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, yes.

[Fashion Expert]

Who aged everybody in Hollywood. And she became a great friend in New York and here. And then one of hers, Los Angeles. And I'd go out every summer from Vogue for my holiday, my vacation to Hollywood for three weeks. And just said, jean, I want to meet Wilder. I want to meet everybody. Anybody, Marlena, anybody. She just knew them all. They all came to lunch. It was extraordinary.

[Nicky Haslam]

And is that when Cole Porter came?

[Fashion Expert]

She was sorry, I've got. She was the best. Yes. She said to me one day, she said, always banging on about Cole Porter. Do you want to meet him? And I said, yes. She said, all go for dinner. And we went for dinner in the Waldorf in his wonderful apartment. And you know, he was quite ill. That he'd had the legs. The legs were off, I mean.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

[Fashion Expert]

One had been amputated when he fell off his horse. And the other one had gone a bit gabby, or more than gabby. And Gene said, when we go into the apartment, when we go for. We'll sit there having drinks. And then the Butler will say, Mr. Porter's coming in now. And it's that point. You don't. You look at the fireplace, you don't look at the door. I think because Cole's embarrassed by his argument. But I was watching in the mirror of the fireplace. And they brought him in and they settled him on the sofa. And they straightened the things in his trousers and made the carnation absolutely perfect. Cole switched on a smile and said, would you like a Gibson? First word he said to me. I've drunk Gibson's ever since because of Cole. But I used to do a lot of him, often alone. He was extraordinary. The beauty of Cole. Things, his apartment, his china, his taste. Those balls he gave when he was young must have been astonishing. Amazing style. The beauty of the wonderful looking wife, Linda. Such beauty.

[Nicky Haslam]

Was she around till the last.

[Fashion Expert]

I never saw Linda. She died. But everybody knew her daughter. And he knew Elsie Mendel. That worked that. And funny people like Elsa Maxwell.

[Nicky Haslam]

Oh, yeah.

[Fashion Expert]

All that old world gone. Personalities gone.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, I'm glad you're still going strong, Nicky. You're carrying the torch for individuality and originality and style.

[Fashion Expert]

I think the funny thing then is people wanted publicity and now they don't. That's the difference.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, I suppose they show themselves in this kind of uniform way that is common, according to your dictum, and. And then you don't get to see the authentic.

[Fashion Expert]

All those people like Elsa Maxwell, Gene Tierney and all of. They were never out of the press. We were. So everything they did was magic.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, thanks, Nicky. It's been.

[Fashion Expert]

Thank you.

[Nicky Haslam]

Wonderful to.

[Fashion Expert]

I've waffled on for hours. You loved them.

[Nicky Haslam]

You've been fantastic.

[Fashion Expert]

Say, put a sock in it.

[Nicky Haslam]

I love that expression.

[Fashion Expert]

Or even a Dior stocking.

[Nicky Haslam]

Well, thank you for being on Fashion Neurosis. It's been a joy.

[Fashion Expert]

You're so knowledgeable, too. That's what's so nice.