Fashion Neurosis with Princess Julia

Summary

Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud: Episode Summary Featuring Princess Julia

Release Date: January 22, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud, renowned fashion designer Bella Freud sits down with Princess Julia, a multifaceted personality known for her distinctive style as a DJ and writer. The conversation delves deep into the intricate relationship between fashion, identity, and personal evolution, providing listeners with a rich tapestry of experiences and insights.

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Early Influences and Childhood

Princess Julia begins by reflecting on her early awareness of fashion's power. At the tender age of eight, she exhibited a keen sense of style, vividly recalling, “I remember begging my mother for my eighth birthday, a smock top. I also wanted hot pants.” (01:41). This fascination with clothing was intertwined with her abilities in knitting and crocheting, skills she honed under her grandmother’s guidance.

Her grandmother, Muriel Bowie, an opera singer with a flamboyant style, served as her primary style icon. Princess Julia fondly describes her grandmother's “Dior New Look type dresses” and the mesmerizing influence she had: “I remember really being quite mesmerised by Muriel Bowie... she was quite something really and quite formidable I must say.” (03:04). This early exposure to haute couture and bold fashion statements planted the seeds for her lifelong passion for expressive apparel.

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Punk Scene and Personal Style Evolution

Transitioning into her teenage years, Princess Julia discusses her immersion into the punk scene at age sixteen, a pivotal moment that reshaped her approach to fashion. “When I left school about 16, I sort of entered a whole new world... the punk scene was sort of happening and I really sort of found myself in that scene,” she shares (06:08). She highlights how punk was more than a fashion statement; it was a rebellion against societal norms and a means of self-expression during a tumultuous time for young women.

Bella Freud echoes this sentiment, recounting her own experiences with punk fashion: “I always remember standing on the street trying to get a cab when I was 16 or 17. I was wearing a bondage outfit because I'd been working in Seditionaries... I thought, God, that's so amazing that I can be that scary.” (08:02). Both speakers emphasize how clothing served as a source of empowerment, allowing them to project confidence and navigate their identities amidst societal pressures.

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Identity and Non-Binary Perspectives

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the concept of non-binary identity and its relationship with fashion. Princess Julia expresses a forward-thinking perspective, noting, “I sort of feel like, you know, it's something that our scene was doing in the late '70s at the Blitz, new romantic nightclub era times. There wasn't a definition or a way of defining being non-binary.” (23:05). She envisions a more fluid understanding of gender today, contrasting it with the rigid societal norms that previously dictated binary identities.

Bella builds on this by highlighting the commercial implications: “I suppose if you think of just in terms of, you know, everything is so connected to selling things to people that if you don't really know what they're supposed to be, who are you targeting?” (24:01). They both agree that fashion provides a versatile medium for exploring and expressing diverse identities, breaking down the traditional binaries and embracing individuality.

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Friendship with Leigh Bowery

Princess Julia fondly reminisces about her friendship with the legendary Leigh Bowery, a cornerstone figure in the fashion and club scene. “I first met Lee when they kind of arrived in the UK in clubland and made friends with Lee almost immediately,” she recalls (26:03). Their mutual admiration and collaborative spirit are evident as they discuss Leigh’s unique contributions to art and fashion, such as the creation of a shawl from rags: “He took the rag… and it's a signifier of that chapter of Lee's life.” (30:02).

Bella adds personal anecdotes, sharing how Leigh's presence and creativity left a lasting impact on her family and the broader art community. The duo's influence is underscored by their upcoming exhibition at the Tate, which both anticipate with excitement: “I can't wait for that.” (28:03).

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Music and Creativity

The conversation naturally transitions to the role of music in their lives. Princess Julia elaborates on her eclectic taste, spanning classical, camp, post-punk, and electronic genres: “My tastes are really wide... it can go from ambient into classical, into camp, into post punk, electronica,” she says (31:49). This diversity in musical preferences mirrors her versatile approach to fashion, where she blends various influences to create unique looks.

Bella discusses her own creative processes, drawing parallels between writing and fashion design. Referencing George Saunders' book on Russian short stories, she explains, “What do I add? What do I take?... I find that it all interrelates and that the act of making something will make something else happen.” (39:02). Both emphasize the importance of spontaneity and the joy of creation, whether through music, writing, or designing clothes.

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Personal Philosophy and Relationships

Princess Julia shares her philosophy on continual learning and personal growth: “Everything's like a learning curve, and I'm still learning, and I just never want to stop learning” (43:10). This mindset extends to her relationships, particularly regarding the role of fashion in attraction. She candidly admits, “I do think the art of dressing is a reflection of your inner spirit” (41:11), explaining how attire can influence personal connections.

Bella relates by discussing her experiences attempting to influence a partner’s fashion choices: “I tried to change him... but... they didn't want to be different from how they were.” (42:09). This interaction highlights the complex interplay between personal identity and external perceptions, reinforcing the idea that fashion is a profound mode of self-expression.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Bella expressing her admiration for Princess Julia’s authenticity and ongoing evolution: “You have such an appeal... you just don't go along with that.” (43:56). Princess Julia responds with her trademark blend of humor and insight, affirming her commitment to forward momentum: “I want to be on the up of going forward.” (43:08).

Together, Bella and Princess Julia encapsulate the essence of Fashion Neurosis, demonstrating how fashion serves as a powerful lens through which to explore personal identity, societal norms, and creative expression. Their conversation offers listeners a nuanced understanding of the symbiotic relationship between what we wear and who we are.

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Notable Quotes

• Princess Julia: “Clothes really gave me a sort of superhuman feeling of confidence.” (10:07)
• Bella Freud: “If you have good clothes, you have so much you could project power that you never actually felt.” (08:40)
• Princess Julia: “I want to be on the up of going forward.” (43:08)
• Bella Freud: “I think that’s just like, quite beyond how a little hook can, like, engulf a whole nation of people.” (34:05)

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud offers a captivating exploration of fashion as an extension of self. Through the candid dialogue with Princess Julia, listeners gain valuable insights into the transformative power of clothing, the importance of authentic self-expression, and the enduring impact of influential figures within the fashion and art worlds.

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Connect with Fashion Neurosis

• Website: www.fashionneurosis.com
• Instagram: @fashionnueorsis_bellafreud

Transcript

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[Bella]

Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Princess Julia.

[Princess Julia]

Hello, Bella. I'm so happy to be here.

[Bella]

Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes?

[Princess Julia]

So, today I'm wearing a brand called Service and I'm wearing a dress from John Lawrence Sullivan and you can't see it, but I've actually put my own belt over the top of the dress.

[Bella]

Because you're a DJ and a writer and you have such an incredible distinctive look that's always evolving. And when was the first time you realised the power of clothes? And how old were you?

[Princess Julia]

Oh, eight years old, actually. Thinking about it, that's when my passion really sort of sped up and I sort of had a sense of how I wanted to look. I remember begging my mother for my eighth birthday, a smock top. I also wanted hot pants. And so this was about 1968, by the way, and I'd learned how to knit as well. My grandma taught me, so I was busy knitting and crocheting, actually, and I remember making a little hat to wear. Oh, my God.

[Bella]

Because you have always had such a distinctive style and. And it sounds like you knew exactly what you wanted. It was like it was almost born into you and you always give. You still have that, you know, you have this kind of incredible chic and it's very elegant and sort of seems like almost historical. It's just so impressive. And who in your childhood did you admire for their style? How did your mum dress? And who's the Hungarian side? Is that your mother or your father?

[Princess Julia]

My father was Hungarian and my mother from the uk. But really my style icon was my grandmother, who was an opera singer and she was the flamboyant one. And I remember going to her closet and rifling through all her Dior. New look type dresses and sort of whipping them all out and trying on her hats and things. So I remember really being quite mesmerised by Muriel Bowie, that was her name. And she was quite something, quite a curvaceous lady in her earlier years. And I have got an amazing photograph of her when she did sing opera in a sort of a very sort of Viking esque type get up. She was quite something really and I used to go and visit her on my own because she was just like amazing really and quite formidable I must say. She had a very henpecked almost husband, although I think he just used to go off on his bicycle. They lived in Croydon and all the.

[Bella]

Best people it seems.

[Princess Julia]

So My mother was very. Her idea of dressing was very functional. It's that old adage, isn't it, that everything sort of skips a generation. And then my father, he was a refugee I think in his younger years he had quite a sort of snappy way of dressing. But later on he too was very sort of functional really. But you know, functional is a good look as far as I'm concerned. I like a functional look, I like a uniform. To me it's all dressing up.

[Bella]

Yeah, it's the flip side of the same coin. Yeah, yeah. And were you the only one? Do you have siblings?

[Princess Julia]

I do, I do. My sister, she likes to dress but like she's not like me, she's got her own look and she doesn't like to draw attention to herself whereas I do. Sorry? Well, I do up to a point, you know also I sort of feel like dressing makeup, it's almost like my shield in a way. It's a sort of reinvention of myself.

[Bella]

Yeah, because you've mentioned about being quite shy and I've seen you look shy and you have a demureness to you as well. And I wondered about your extrovert, introvert side. And if dressing up is like, you know, when you have coffee to calm you down, when you're kind of over hyped, it's like pile it on. And that creates a sort of neutrality.

[Princess Julia]

When I left school about 16, I sort of entered a whole new world and it was quite overwhelming and I just wanted to have like lots of nice friends and places to go. The punk scene was sort of happening and I really sort of found myself in that scene. But the women in that scene were a real inspiration to me. To me punk was anti fashion. It was sort of going against the sort of norms of beauty and how you could present yourself and create some Sort of confrontation because, you know, the mid-70s was a dangerous time if you're female. And so the role models that I was seeing and the people I was meeting really inspired me to take a leap into a way of presenting myself.

[Bella]

Punk was a game changer for me because it was the first time I'd experienced being. Being young and sort of feeling insignificant as a kind of bit of agency or just being young. And it was the first time I realized clothes were a real asset. That if you had good clothes, you had so much you could project power that you never actually felt. And I always remember standing on the street trying to get a cab when I was 16 or 17. I was wearing bondage outfit because I'd been working in Seditionaries.

[Princess Julia]

Oh, my God.

[Bella]

And then this woman just started screaming and I hadn't done anything at all.

[Princess Julia]

Wow.

[Bella]

And I thought, God, that's so amazing that I can be that scary. And I. It's just my clothes, even though I'm, you know, feel small and. Do you remember that sort of moment of punk where you thought, God, this is something for me?

[Princess Julia]

Yeah, I do. And I think even just going into Seditionaries was quite a sort of feat because it was quite a daunting shop. And you worked in there. I can't believe that.

[Bella]

It was so forbidding the outside. And then you could only look through this door and see two, like two or three of us sulking girls in the background looking down our neighbors.

[Princess Julia]

I love that. I really. I remember, like, with great trepidation, sort of mustering up the courage to go in there and sort of rifling through the rails, selecting various pieces of clothing and spending my hard earned tips money.

[Bella]

What did you buy? Do you remember what you bought?

[Princess Julia]

Yeah, I bought. I bought some bondage trousers, a T shirt, a bondage top.

[Bella]

Which T shirt?

[Princess Julia]

I think it was the Cambridge Rapist, actually.

[Bella]

I mean.

[Princess Julia]

And at that time, for a very small, small amount of time, I worked in. After I did hairdressing, I was a hairdressing apprentice couple of years. And then for a very short amount of time because I wasn't working. And I've got a great work ethic. I like to be busy. And I took this job in a factory learning piecework, like sewing, basically as a machinist, and which was very enlightening. But I really wanted to learn how to sew properly and quickly. So I went in there and learned very quickly how to put a cuff on and a collar and things like that. So it's actually quite fascinating. And I love looking at clothes and seeing how they're sort of constructed. And I remember wearing like a little kilt to work in the factory just off Hackney Road, and the bondage top with the confrontational sloganage on. And nobody really batted an eye in the factory. But there were some quite odd looks on the bus to work, I must say. At that time, the doctors used to dish out antidepressants willy nilly, so I had a good pocket full of those as well. So I was quite sort of spaced out, really, not too bothered by what people thought that I was wearing. And the clothes really gave me a sort of superhuman feeling of confidence.

[Bella]

And where do you start with an outfit when you're getting ready?

[Princess Julia]

I think about a sort of general silhouette and I think about what the fabric's gonna be. I have dreams about what I'm gonna wear the next day, especially if I've got to go somewhere. But I'm inspired by people making things. So, you know, I might go to bed dreaming of one sort of look and then wake up thinking, oh, actually that dress will work really well. And then sometimes I sort of take a few different pieces and then layer them up and sort of conjure up something a bit sort of newish. So I do have people coming up to me and go, God, you've got a different look on every time. I see you never wear the same thing twice, but I do, actually. It's just that sometimes I wear things in different coordinations.

[Bella]

I've noticed with you that young people are really kind of appreciate all the experimenting that you do and like your references and that you. That there's a lot of appreciation for what they can learn from you. One thing I particularly like about you is that when someone blows smoke up your ass, you just. You're like, no, well, no, it's not like that actually. And I. I love that you don't just take it because it's on offer. You seem to have a very kind of thing that I admire a lot, a moral compass about what's genuine. And I wondered, have you always been like that since you were a child?

[Princess Julia]

Well, I think when I was a child, I was too frightened to say anything to anybody, quite frankly. But I mean, I'm one of those people that sometimes doesn't think before they speak. So I think that's probably a thing that I'm aware of and try to monitor, but sometimes everything just sort of comes out or. Yeah, I mean, well, it's good, yeah. Sometimes I do make a few faux pas. I think I Don't mean to upset people, but also I'm very interested in sort of seeing other people's point of view of things. And I'm not afraid to admit that I'm wrong either I think that's quite important, or, you know, to take stuff, somebody else's opinion on board. And that goes for, like, all sorts of things as you go through life, really. You know, I'm nearly 65 now and I never really thought that I would still be sort of knocking around, quite frankly. So that's quite entertaining. And I don't really see it ever ending. I don't really see that there's a sort of cutoff date because I'm still really enjoying myself and enjoying all these different facets and interests and entertaining moments that seem to engage me. And I think they're things that sort of keep me going, really. And the people that I meet, younger, older, my own age, continually inspire me, quite frankly. And also like people that I've known for a long, long time, their sort of experiences and how they deal with their life changes really do inspire me. I do meet people that their families have abandoned them and they've had to run away and they've had to find themselves somewhere else and they don't have the support of their families. I hope that, you know, our club family are there in a big capacity to support people. And I work in a lot of different sort of club areas as a dj. They are a point for people to meet and make new friends and swap ideas and create new things, which I think is so important. So I want to be able to impart my knowledge and support to younger people because clubbing on the whole is, you know, a younger space for people to exist in. But I do see that a lot of spaces that I work in are very intergenerational.

[Bella]

Where does your name, Princess Julia, come from? I'm sure you're asked this all time, but did you create that for yourself or did someone start revering you as that?

[Princess Julia]

Do you know what I think, basically, because I was so shy, I was sort of quite sort of reticent at like, sort of speaking. So I guess I could be quite sort of standoffish. I worked as a cashier lady in the Wag Club and I remember one of the managers there always used to call me Princess. So I guess there's a bit of that there. And then people sort of going, God, who do you think you are? Sort of idea, I'm just me. I'm just me. Anyway, so a bit later on in that decade of the 80s, we. I was DJing regularly by then at a club over in Brixton, the Daisy Chain, and we thought us, the DJs, that we should have proper DJ names rather than our own names because I think it was all the rage. I became Princess Julia 1986. But then also I had to sort of like, idea that, you know, you didn't have to be born into the upper echelon to be. Have a royal title, so to speak. So, you know, because I thought that was really quite unfair, actually. You know, why do some people get to be lords and ladies and, you know, us on the lower rung, we can have heirs and graces too. So that's my sort of way of thinking. So it was quite sort of, quite a statement really.

[Bella]

Sort of almost like, you know, the nicknames at home. My dad was always big on nicknames. And then I invented my name, not that I really called myself that, as Bologna the Great. And that was my alter ego. I love that as a kind of warrior. And then I loved.

[Princess Julia]

How old were you when you did that?

[Bella]

Probably 11. I think that's when I started being very interested in superhuman qualities. Feeling untouched, you know, sort of un. Hurtable, I suppose. I wanted to be invincible. Bellonius the Great sanded. I always admired Alexander the Great because instead of kind of pondering over something, he'd slice through the knot. And I thought, I'd love to be like that. I'd love to not be hesitant and doubtful. I'd love to know that the way to undo this knot is to slice through it with a sword. It just seemed brilliant. But it's taken me most of my life to be more connected to my decisive kind of attributes and now I'm quite decisive. And I also loved how, like, the way names come about. Judy Blaine, when he. He worked for Anthony Price and his name was Christopher Barnes, I think, and Anthony would say, oh, blame Judy, and then he just ended up as Judy blame. And it suited him so well. And Princess Julia suits you. You do have, you have, you have innate elegance and class.

[Princess Julia]

I mean, I just hated my own surname because I was so ridiculed at school anyway. And then I do remember when, when I was much younger, making up a name. I can't remember the name though, but I do remember doing that and like signing it. Did you do that as well, like trying out the autograph?

[Bella]

I used to write to my sister and sign off Valonius the Great. Sometimes I still do.

[Princess Julia]

That's so cute. I love that. Oh, that's so nice. Oh.

[Bella]

Yeah, sure thing.

[Princess Julia]

Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Bella]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Princess Julia]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Bella]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient. Just like that. Yeah.

[Princess Julia]

No hassle? None. That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap. Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.

[Bella]

You've also talked about how much you appreciate the identity of non binary and I wondered what that means to you.

[Princess Julia]

I sort of feel like, you know, it's something that our scene was doing in the late 70s at the Blitz, new romantic nightclub era times. There wasn't a definition or a way of defining being non binary. And I'm pretty sure that if I was 18 now I'd be non binary. And I just feel like we live in a society that's been so brainwashed into this definition of you've got to be one thing or the other and it doesn't allow for any. Doesn't allow for nature.

[Bella]

Yeah, that's a very good way of.

[Princess Julia]

Putting it actually, how fluid nature is. And everything isn't cut and dry like that. And I feel like society likes to keep people in their place and regimented to keep some sort of weird way of controlling the general public. Do you get my gist?

[Bella]

Yeah, yeah. I suppose if you think of just in terms of, you know, everything is so connected to selling things to people that if you don't really know what they're supposed to be, who are you targeting? But there's so much scope within that and I suppose there's a lot of fun to be had with playing around with your identity. Yeah, I mean, I. In a way, I suppose like the punk scene for me was. Was that.

[Princess Julia]

Yeah, it was really non binary.

[Bella]

Yeah. And also what I liked was that you could be. I mean, not that I was, but. But you could sort of wear very little or you could wear this kind of bondage y type of clothes, but it wasn't sexualized like you talked about in the 70s, it being more of a dangerous time when you're a young person and especially a young woman or girl or whatever that everything was so hypersexualized, but. And it made you very vulnerable. And then punk was just, you know, it just did away with that and that was quite freeing. Were you friends with Leigh Bowery?

[Princess Julia]

I was friends with Leigh Bowery actually. Yeah. I first met Lee when they Kind of arrived in the UK in clubland and made friends with Lee almost immediately. I mean, they were very impressive. Lee and Trojan. Yeah, obviously they were sort of like a duo. I think when Lee first arrived, he had the intention of being a fashion designer and following quite a traditional route and creating collections, seasonal collections, and quite quickly realized that wasn't really the trajectory.

[Bella]

Yeah, he seemed to realize that he was the creation and he did that so brilliantly. I mean, he was so funny as well, Lee. And it was, I think one of the most exciting moments in my life was going to a club and being greeted by Lee because he had the way he spoke. He kind of. He would just sort of talk to you almost as though he was at the wi. Like, oh, hello. You know, just sort of very matter of fact. Nah. And. And you were being greeted by this. I mean, he was so gigantic. He'd wear those, you know, massive built up shoes and he was already over 6 foot. And so this, this amazing creature would bend down and grace you with a kiss on the cheek and oh my God, it was just like being greeted by. God, it was so fantastic.

[Princess Julia]

I always sort of think the turning point for Lee was when Lorcan O'Neill had Lee perform in the Dauphe Gallery.

[Bella]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Princess Julia]

That really gave Lee serious leverage into the art world and really made people sort of stop and consider what Lee was all about, actually. And you went to that. I went to that too. And I remember thinking, wow, this is really quite a moment.

[Bella]

Yeah, it was so interesting. Even though he wasn't doing much, he just. Everything was interesting and I suppose I got to know him when he. He was sitting for my father and my father did these incredible paintings of him and. And I used to go around and we'd go out for lunch or breakfast or something and he had a kind of off duty look that was really good. And he'd sort of be in like, you know, some slobbish type of track pants or something. And then, yeah, he had this amazing wig that was like a. He was like a prodigy child's, like with this sort of muted blonde curls like you would imagine someone's sort of 7 year old that they were grooming for being a concert pianist or something. And he just. And he had such, you know, these blue eyes and he had so much charm and then just. He was so hungry for culture. And we'd go to restaurants and he'd be really interested in the food and how it was made and developed all these tastes and he was so oh, he was just so wonderful.

[Princess Julia]

He loved sitting for Lucy and they.

[Bella]

Really got on well. They were just sort of made for each other.

[Princess Julia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's got the. The cloth? You know that because Lee stole loads of pieces of canvas and made it into, like, a shawl.

[Bella]

Oh, yeah. He took the rags.

[Princess Julia]

Yeah. He took the rag. Right.

[Bella]

Used to clean his brushes.

[Princess Julia]

And it does exist somewhere.

[Bella]

Yeah.

[Princess Julia]

And maybe it'll be in that show.

[Bella]

Yeah.

[Princess Julia]

The Tate that's coming up, right?

[Bella]

Yeah. In February. There's a big shirt. The Tate isn't. Isn't there. Which I'm. I can't wait to see that.

[Princess Julia]

I think maybe Lorcan's got it, but I'm pretty sure that'll be in it. It's got to be in it, hasn't it? Because, I mean, that. That shawl really is sort of like a signifier of that chapter of Lee's life. I feel he just took it and.

[Bella]

Made some, you know, the next phase of his career out of it, which was then cut short by his death. But, yeah, I'll never forget. I never saw my father cry, but when Lee died, he cried and I can still feel the pain. It was just so.

[Princess Julia]

Yeah, I never knew that.

[Bella]

Yeah, it was a real. They were really kind of. They were great friends, and Lee had a huge effect on my father and on everyone, really. So it will be really exciting to see the show. I can't wait for that. You play music for a living, and I wondered if you ever. What's, like, the most unexpected music that you might listen to.

[Princess Julia]

My tastes are really wide, and I just love listening to all kinds of music, quite frankly. So, you know, I do listen to classical music on occasion, and then. And I even have friends that sing classical music, actually, so that's really exciting. And then I'll delve into the camp realms of musical theater. There's nothing I like more than a show tune. And then, you know, regarding, you know, club music and DJing, I'm lucky enough to be able to get away with playing quite a sort of eclectic mix of music on occasion. My heart is lying in the realms of, like, electronic music. I don't know why I love it. Yeah. And so that is a really wide scope of music to listen to. It can go from ambient into classical, into camp, into post punk, electronica, into all sorts of realms.

[Bella]

I suppose it's finding music that appeases a different part of your soul than I know. I love, like, Lizzo Boys or Britney, you know, I just love that stuff.

[Princess Julia]

And then, yeah, I mean, I love a bit of pop and I like to keep quite up to date with the sort of latest sort of pop stars going on. And I think there's some really brilliant ones and there's some really brilliant performers.

[Bella]

Who do you love at the moment?

[Princess Julia]

I'm obsessed with things that sort of go viral because I think to, like, make a hook and make it an earworm.

[Bella]

Is that what it's called?

[Princess Julia]

I think that's a real talent.

[Bella]

Yeah.

[Princess Julia]

How do you know? Like, if you get a. You get a hook like that and the right singer with the right production and the right moment, like, I think that's just like, quite beyond how a little hook can, like, engulf a whole nation of people.

[Bella]

Yeah. Did you, like. I had that really intensely. And it's still going on with Charlie XCX and Billie Eilish. Guess.

[Princess Julia]

Yeah. It's so good, isn't it?

[Bella]

It just sends. It just makes me feel so happy and so wild. And I play it in the kitchen in the morning and if I'm having a downer and I put that on, I just feel like someone's giving me a mission, like Alexander the Great. Like, I can cut through the knot. I just need this. This running through my bloodstream.

[Princess Julia]

Yeah, it's so beyond.

[Bella]

Yeah. Before you arrived, I was watching the video Fade To Gray that you did in 1980, and Steve Strange is legendary video and it was so amazing and I hadn't realized at first that it was you. And. Oh, it's. It was such a good song. And I remember. I remember Steve Strange and I remember going to a club night of his called Bangs in Tottenham Court Road. That was before the Blitz, I think.

[Princess Julia]

So Bangs wasn't actually Steve's club, but I used to go to Bangs with Steve Strange, funnily enough as well. So maybe we were double dating. I remember it was like, so funny.

[Bella]

I think I only went once or twice, but I. Because it was when I was working at Seditionary, so I was about 16 or 17. And I remember what I was wearing and I was wearing this micro mini dress and fishnet tights and these really high shoes and my feet got so hot that I poured my half pint of cider over them.

[Princess Julia]

Oh, my God, I love that. Oh.

[Bella]

Trying to cool down. But Steve was. He was pretty kind of haughty and he definitely embraced his status.

[Princess Julia]

And so did you meet him in the sort of punk era? Yeah, so that's what I saw him around in the punk era. And I had a friend VI and we always used to be so fascinated of how he could always be dressed in head to foot seditionaries, how he could afford it, because it wasn't actually really cheap or anything.

[Bella]

No, it was really expensive.

[Princess Julia]

You know, it was a definite statement and you know, right down to the pixie boots. And we were always really fascinated and we could never work it out. And somebody said that he used to sell speed. Is that true?

[Bella]

I don't know that. That wouldn't surprise me. I mean, do you write every day? No, because there's a lot of conjecture about inspiration, which seems the least important thing, because if you waited for that, you could be waiting forever. But there's something about doing something when you're not in the mood and finding a way to do it, which that's inspiring.

[Princess Julia]

And all the writers, how do you do it?

[Bella]

Bella I think of a first line, I think vaguely, oh, I don't know what to do. And then I think of a first line that if I read that I'd carry on reading. And then I've hooked myself back in, I've sort of got myself interested and I know that if I write something, I've got something to shape. And the worst thing is that if I don't write anything or I try to make it perfect before it comes out, then, then it never comes out. But. So the best bit of advice I got from my ex husband who's a writer, he said just get it down on the page. So I know that sometimes it's just the act of, you know, however you write, putting on the computer, getting the word doc up and then just something comes out and then there's something.

[Princess Julia]

Do you apply the same sort of rules to when you're creating clothes?

[Bella]

Yeah. I read this book actually, about how to further an idea and it's written by this man, George Saunders, and it's called A Dip in a Swim in the Pond in the Rain or something very similar. And he uses examples of Russian short stories written by Chekhov and Tolstoy and Turgenev. And he breaks down why the writer has left things in and what he's taken out. And when I read that, I thought, oh, I know how to do that when I'm designing.

[Princess Julia]

What do I add?

[Bella]

What do I take? You know, instead of. It was. I found it incredibly useful and I find that it all inter interrelates and that the act of making something will make something else happen. And, and, you know, that's what makes life worth living for, really.

[Princess Julia]

It's, it's kind of to find some kind of joy.

[Bella]

Yeah.

[Princess Julia]

And fulfillment in whatever task you undertake.

[Bella]

Yeah. And also, like you were describing about the club community and friends and, you know, abandonment to. To look out for other people and, you know, care for. Care for each other. That's a very kind of stimulating thing in itself. And I wanted to ask you, if you fancy someone and you don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

[Princess Julia]

Yes. Yeah, it would make a difference, I feel. I know it sounds vacuous.

[Bella]

I don't think so.

[Princess Julia]

I do think the art of dressing is a reflection of your inner spirit.

[Bella]

You know, it sounds like vanity or prejudice, but it's a message, isn't it? It's. Can I go beyond it and does it matter? Or. It's a kind of warning, really, like this. We're not supposed to be with each other because this kind of vital strand of communication is missing.

[Princess Julia]

Have you ever been with someone where you thought, I can overlook that, actually, and then sort of like not try to change a person, obviously, but sort of like suggest that they maybe try on a different look?

[Bella]

Yes, I can think of one person.

[Princess Julia]

And was it successful?

[Bella]

Not really, because in the end they didn't want to be different from how they were. But the way they dressed was so bad, and it wasn't like clumsy bad. It was really. There was a lot of love gone into these hideous clothes and earrings and just shockers. And so I tried to change him. And of course that, you know, no one wants to be changed.

[Princess Julia]

No. But obviously, you know, the person must have been a lovely person. There must have been something about them that. I don't know, that you adored.

[Bella]

In a way. I think the.

[Princess Julia]

Or did it just. In the end, it overrode everything.

[Bella]

It wasn't just that, but it was definitely a warning and it was a sign to me. But I needed to do that and I did. And ultimately it.

[Princess Julia]

You learned something out of it, though.

[Bella]

Yeah. Yeah, I did.

[Princess Julia]

That's what I love. You know, everything's like a learning curve, and I'm still learning, and I just never want to stop learning. I always want to be finding out about things, different ways of putting things together, making new things. I'm not one of those people. That is. I've. I've seen it all before. You know, I'm. I'm. I'm not going to be one of those people. I'm not one of those people. And actually, I have caught myself saying that in an ironic fashion. But, you know, I want to be on the. On the up of going forward.

[Bella]

I think you are. You're a modern woman, and that's why you're. You have such an appeal. Because, you know, people do project their nostalgia on. And I've heard you. You just don't go along with that. And you seem.

[Princess Julia]

I like the trad with the rad.

[Bella]

Oh, that's great. Well, thank you so much, Princess Julia, for being on Fashion Neurosis. It's been illuminating and wonderful to have you here.

[Princess Julia]

I've loved it. I'm so thrilled. I am.