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- [00:01]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet? Yeah, sold it to Carvana. Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [00:09]
Stefano Pilati
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency. No interest over 36 months. Yeah, no.
- [00:15]
Ryan Reynolds
Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient. Just like that? Yeah. No hassle?
- [00:23]
Stefano Pilati
None.
- [00:24]
Ryan Reynolds
That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap. Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said. What the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month.
- [00:57]
Stefano Pilati
New customers on first three month plan only.
- [00:58]
Ryan Reynolds
Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40GB.
- [01:00]
Stefano Pilati
Details.
- [01:09]
Bella
Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis, Stefano Pilati.
- [01:20]
Stefano Pilati
Thank you for having me.
- [01:21]
Bella
Darling, can you tell me what clothes you're wearing today and why you chose them?
- [01:25]
Stefano Pilati
Okay, so I'm wearing something that I designed. I didn't have much choice because I'm coming from Sicily and I had a limited wardrobe on my disposal. So let's say that what I'm wearing is the best I could do, I think, for the occasion, you know, to celebrate being together today, you know. So I'm wearing a jacket, which I like a lot because it's a. It's kind of a feminine jacket. But for some reason I think I managed to, you know, make it masculine on me. And then probably the shape of the pants I'm wearing are the one I prefer the most. As a tribute to London and Britain. I'm wearing a turbulent assurance polo net. And the George Cox creepers love them. And I guess that's it. I mean, I love heavy socks especially. Especially if they are hand knitted.
- [02:44]
Bella
Can you tell me about the handkerchief you're holding?
- [02:47]
Stefano Pilati
Oh, you know, sometimes I do things without really. I mean, of course I think about it, but I don't overthink about it in the sense that I quite instinctual in. And since you asked me to be here, you know, then I thought, okay, well, I'm gonna wear this and I'm gonna have an archief in my hands. And I was like, you know, and I wonder where does that come from, you know, and I thought, oh, you know, it's very. No, no women in the 17th century. And. And also I thought, you know, ironically, if I get emotional, you know, I can always have something to, you know. And then I thought that it was. I don't know. I don't know. I see it quite poetic in a way, but, yeah, I know that it probably won't make sense for. For many people, except for myself.
- [03:46]
Bella
I love that detail about poetic because one of the things that's so attractive about you is this poetic side and that you bring so much nuance to your. You have some. Well, I find that you have something of the kind of elegance of a bullfighter, about you, of a matador. And then you have this poetic, kind of fluid side. And the combination is. Is just so potent and effective. And I wondered what the first piece of clothing you wore that made you feel powerful.
- [04:31]
Stefano Pilati
I had an ensemble when I was like, maybe 6 years old. My mother wanted me to take guitar lessons. And I remember that I had like, a Levi's jacket and a pair of Levi's flares, and they were matching. And it was probably like Moleskine, you know, in a denim color, very 70s. I mean, like, it was 71. And I remember that I loved to wear that to go to the. To take guitar lessons because I felt like, you know, almost like a rock star. And in fact, I didn't learn at all to play guitar. I got bored because the teacher. I don't know, it was like old school, whatever, so it didn't really impress me. But I was so happy to go to take lessons because of that outfit. Yeah, I was six and, you know, it was bang on the 70s. And I. I think it was pretty. A pretty powerful look at that time, you know.
- [05:47]
Bella
Yeah.
- [05:47]
Stefano Pilati
And Levi's was really like kind of everything, you know, in a way. Only later I started to learn about, like, Wrangler and Roy Rogers. But, you know, for me, it was always about Levi's.
- [06:05]
Bella
They have a romance associated with them, I think. So Evocative and precise.
- [06:11]
Stefano Pilati
Yes.
- [06:13]
Bella
Because you have the style of someone, I think, brought up in a kind of Proustian, exquisite luxury. And I wondered what your actual home life was like.
- [06:25]
Stefano Pilati
As a child, my mother taught me a lot about dressing up for occasions, mixing colors in the right way, you know, using the right weights of fabric. Depending on the seasons, she tend to buy me clothes that they were a bit oversized so that I. That I could grow in it. And she really, really cared about, you know, dressing me up in a Nice way. And so I, I think I've been always thankful to that. But what was particular is that I kind of made it my own pretty soon, in fact, you know, by, yeah, very early age, like the Levi's ensemble, you know, this, I. I started to want things myself, you know, to buy things that I wanted my mother to not to decide for me. I mean, I was obsessed with and you know, I was looking at the, the people around and, you know, kids, my sisters were 10 years older than me. And so they had like, you know, a school that was again, was bang on the 70s, you know, so they have like all these flower power kind of looks with shieldings and border shillings. And I wanted all that. You know, the problem is that I was so little that nothing was in my size. And then I remember that I was experimenting at home outside my mother, let's say, style. And I was changing four or five times a day. And when I was coming back from school and my, you know, my mother was furious. I was going to dinner, you know, like a simple dinner, family dinner, you know, but I was like stealing ties from my father closet and you know, go to dinner with the tie and you know, they were all like looking at me, my sister, they were already in pj. I was like showing up, you know, to tie and they were like, wait, what is going on here? You know. And then if I thought that my mother didn't wear what I thought she would have, I made a change. And that was also like a disaster because, you know, I was really insisting. I mean, like, I made her really uncomfortable until she changed and then, you know, she couldn't really, I mean, poor thing, I mean, she couldn't really process how, how much right. I was, what I told her to change and. But, you know, at that age also you, you do things. You. Yeah, I mean, I guess I was, I was processing very, very fast, but I don't know, I wasn't really realizing the power that I had for that kind of, you know, instinct, let's say.
- [10:14]
Bella
And what did you like her to wear? How did she dress? And what did you prefer her to wear?
- [10:20]
Stefano Pilati
Oh, well, you know, my mom was like really old school. Not old school, but, you know, like she, she was born in 33 and so she was like a post war child, you know, and so, you know, the scarcity at that time, you know, made her buy things for occasions. And so she kept, you know, I remember that she brought me shopping with her and she was buying things and I really liked them. And then she Never wore them until she had an occasion, you know, that made up happen like two weeks later or a month later, you know, And I was obsessed with that because I was like, what's the point, you know, to buy stuff for not wearing it? I mean, like, you keep it in your. Close it. And she was like, yes, but, you know, whatever. She complained. And I always wanted to wear, like, the last purchase or like the. The things that we bought together somehow, you know. And so I wanted to. Her to, you know, always look impeccable, even if she had to go out to do groceries for, like, you know, 20 minutes, you know what I mean? I couldn't. I couldn't stand the fact that she didn't dress up, you know, for every single occasion, including coming to pick me up at school or something. You know, obviously I can tell now, but I think it was my form of telling her that she was beautiful and she should have, you know, feature beauty and, you know, dress up because she could, you know.
- [12:10]
Bella
Yeah, it's much. It must have been rather wonderful for her to have all this attention and this appreciation coming from you. How did your father handle that?
- [12:24]
Stefano Pilati
Ignore that completely. Like, completely. Because, you know, my childhood wasn't the happiest one, frankly speaking. You know, I was very, very much attached to my mom. And if my mom was giving me attention, you know, my father thought that it wasn't really educational. My sister got a bit jealous, and so. And I. And I didn't understand why she didn't stand, you know, for me in that sense, because I. When she was letting go, you know, certain things that I thought were creating a sort of intimacy and complicity with her, you know, I actually felt them like a rejection as well. So overall, I grew up feeling that I was a bit annoying, that they were a bit indifferent. I did feel a lot of rejection. Not understood really, you know, in the way that I wanted to express myself. And also, like, the fact that I had two older sisters and my mom, which were like three women in my family. You know, I grew up very much in admiration of them, but I couldn't really show it to them. You know, I spent a lot of time by myself and also, like, I was trying to come through as. As a child with an artistic personality, but it was not really. Heard my first Pitti in Florence. I was 12. You know, my sister brought me because I insisted, and nobody understood why I wanted to go, but I wanted to go. And probably was the first time where just walking through the aisles of the fair, you know, and see all these booths with. With like fabrics and yarns and clothes, you know, I was like in heaven, really.
- [14:52]
Bella
Pity. Is the trade fair of p. Yes.
- [14:55]
Stefano Pilati
It'S the trade fair in Florence, which is still going somehow. Even before that, the same sister brought me to the Fiorucci store in Milan. And that literally freaked me out to the point that a couple of years later, you know, I saved money and I bought myself the first Ferucci item. And it's when I started to be pretty much obsessed, you know, with clothes. I have to say, it was very, very early on. I was obsessed with Lacoste. So I wanted them in every possible color. And. And if you think about it, you know, la cost is a 60s kind of, you know, phenomenal. I mean, you know, he was playing tennis like only, you know, 20 years earlier than that. Even less, you know. So it was. It was not like now, you know, it was very. It was kind of exclusive in a way. You know, at Lacoste, they were the only Polon X.
- [16:04]
Bella
You know, it's quite a uniform Lacoste. It's interesting that you gravitated to that at that particular moment when I associate you with more sort of like flamboyance almost. Even though it's very considered.
- [16:22]
Stefano Pilati
Yeah. I mean, what was also good, and this was. My mother touched that she. We were buying La Coste. And then, you know, almost for every color, I had the matching pants, you know, which I kind of liked. I mean, it was. It, you know, it was cool to wear Lacoste. It wasn't that usual for a 6, 7, 8, 9 years old kid, you know. No, it's not like now, you know, it was very upper class. Even if I wasn't by 9 or 10, you know, I started to take the tram by myself and go in Via Montenapoleone and, you know, check the windows. And one Christmas I bought with my savings, I bought a gift to my mom at Gucci. And, you know, I don't know, I seriously got very much obsessed about fashion very early on, I have to say.
- [17:28]
Bella
Your clothes and your accessories are incredibly refined. But you also seem to have an influence from fetish. And I wondered what your favorite fetish is.
- [17:40]
Stefano Pilati
I don't know fetish. I.
- [17:44]
Bella
Maybe I'm thinking about your shoes, and maybe it's me that has the fetish because I've always been obsessed with the shoes that you've made, especially when you were at St. Laurent, the things I bought. And there's so much tension in the accessories that you make and in the clothing but you seem to have this extra layer that makes them obsessively desirable. And I was just wondering where that came from.
- [18:18]
Stefano Pilati
Okay, so, yes, I would say that shoes are probably one of the most important thing for me. I mean, I will never have enough shoes. Also, because I believe, and this I openly told, even to some of my friends that are shoe designers, you know, that making clothes is pretty cool and you can be really good, but if you, whatever you wear, if it's fantastic, it could be a fantastic dress, suit, combination, whatever. Look, you know, with the wrong shoes, it's just like crap, you know, if, if you wear nothing like a simple, a white T shirt, pair of pants. Simple as they can be, you know, but with the right shoes, you know, you're kind of everything, you know. So I always say that 50% of the look at least is the shoe in the sense that they define your very, very much. So I don't know if in that sense we can call them fetish. And I, and I think that I carry that all through, you know. Yeah. All my life, all my professional life as well. But I would say also my personal one in terms of, you know, if we talk about style or my style or. Yeah. What I fetish the most. Yeah.
- [19:59]
Bella
With your radical elegance, you design heels for men. And I've seen you wear these wonderful boots that have a higher heel. Is that part of a code that you're breaking out of a formality whilst also having this, this very kind of old school training from your mother?
- [20:23]
Stefano Pilati
Well, you know, I decided to do Hills for Men after a series of thoughts. You know, the way that it works for me is instinctually, without even knowing necessarily why, but instinctually, I look for something I want, something I like. In the case, for example, of the boots with the heel, you know, I didn't, I haven't been the first to do them. One day I was here in London and I was at Dovish Free Market and then a kid while I was eating, you know, upstairs, and a kid walked by and he had one black tabby on and one beige tabby, you know, like. And I got obsessed. It looks so cute. I mean, it was like I was like, oh my God, you know, and this. But the tabby, you know, as, you know, you know, they have the nine centimeter, you know, heel. And of course, it doesn't exist in size 10 or size 44, you know, I guess maximum was like size 40 or 41. So this kid was definitely where. I mean, I got obsessed. This kid obviously was wearing like, you Know, a small size for whatever reason. I mean, it was kind of skinny and not too tall, so probably, you know, size 40, 41. And so, like desperate because I was like, oh, my God, you know, I want them. And so I actually wrote John Galliano to have a pair of 9 centimeter tubby boots, black in size 44. And the shoe designer was also someone that assisted me as Saint Laurent. So the connection was kind of, you know, made easily. And I got them.
- [22:36]
Bella
Oh, wow.
- [22:37]
Stefano Pilati
You know, and so when I started to wear them, beside the fact that they were the. The tabby, and I think I'm the only one in the bloody world to have a pair of tubby my size with the 9 centimeter heel, which is how they look the best, by the way.
- [22:57]
Bella
Yeah.
- [23:00]
Stefano Pilati
You know, I really felt so empowered with my posture, posture and my swag and, you know, and I started to realize, you know, how conventional somehow we are just because we've been educated like that and, and, you know, in the last, let's say, maybe 10 years, you know, we. Speaking about equality and, you know, the role of genders, you know, more and more. And so I was very much attracted by the idea of, again, like, for me, when I, when I wear heels, you know, I get everything from it. Like again, like the posture and, you know, I become almost like two met tall and. And, but for me, it's like, you know, I tested them going, you know, keeping them on for 12 hours, you know, because I really wanted to understand being a fashion designer when you're like, oh, you know, oh, this looks great. Give them, Give her the heels or something, you know, what, what are you doing when you do it? You know, like when you, when you say that, how, how the woman feel? You know, you can ask, but we kind of used, you know, to maybe sometimes I would say, even overuse some conventions, you know, some, Some. Yeah, some. Some codes that.
- [24:49]
Bella
Yeah.
- [24:50]
Stefano Pilati
You know, I think it's time. It's time for a man to experiment a bit further than that. And I'm not talking about, you know, cross dressing or things like that, but, you know, even the first time that I designed like a skirt, you know, I started to think, like, wait, do I want the zip on the side or, you know, and so, you know, I just turn it and I add the zip in the front, which, like what you normally do with the pants and then the slit, I wanted in the front for comfortable reasons. One day I was doing some works at home and there were some builders, you know, and we had to check a Plan, you know, so we were at the table, but I had a skirt on, you know, and I was like, oh, my God, you know, I can't show up like this. And I was like, yes, you can. So I went and, you know, and I didn't see any hesitation about these guys, you know, me, you know, having a skirt on, but only a little bit. Little by little, you know, I realized that they were actually checking me out. But you could tell from the. From the expression, or at least this is what I realized. So I thought it. It was that they kind of wanted to be shocked about it.
- [26:24]
Bella
Yeah.
- [26:24]
Stefano Pilati
But they weren't really, you know, because they kept the same tone, the same attitude, let's say, towards me. Of course, I was the client, but you know what I mean? And. And. And that, for me was the moment where I was like, well, you know, you can do anything you want. It depends how. And in that sense, I think, you know, the fact that I made a skirt that, as a man made, you know, could be comfortable, and it was. Was not, like, for the sake of shocking or, you know, it was very powerful, I think, you know, and. And fashion could serve this kind of. This form of power.
- [27:09]
Bella
Yeah.
- [27:09]
Stefano Pilati
And then the other thing that really, really surprised me is that, you know, you women, you. You are obliged, you know, to sit and cross your legs if you have a skirt on or keep your legs really, you know, tight and on the side like this, you know, while as a man, you know, I don't have that body language. And so, you know, and I wear boxers. And one day I was having lunch, you know, and. And I realized that. And then, you know, I said to a friend of mine, oh, please, can you take a picture of me? Like. Like I am normally, you know, with, you know, wearing a skirt on. And of course, you could see my boxers, right. And, you know, it didn't give me any at all. Yeah. A feeling that I was deguise or, you know, I was provoking or, you know, it felt the most normal thing in the world, to the point that I was like, oh, my God, if I will do a campaign, you for the skirt, you know, that's the way that I will take the picture, you know, because it's. It's so interesting, like, when you try the heels or the skirt in this case, or maybe even some fabric sometimes, you know, like silk shirts and stuff, you know, it's. It's a feeling, isn't it? Like. Yeah, it's a feeling is a. Is how, you know, how you interact, you know, with things that can change the perception even in other people, not only on yourself, but also in other people. And for me, that kind of journey is very, is very romantic. It's very poetic. I don't know, I feel, I feel the sum. It. It's a form of reaching and understanding between the genders, you know, through. Through philosophy, I guess. Philosophy of the clothes. I don't know. Or philosophy of fashion also, I suppose.
- [29:22]
Bella
The power of good design is the philosophy that takes someone from resistance to thinking, oh, maybe I could wear that. Like, I think when somebody, you know, your description of the builders that they carry, they were able to be natural with you is a testament to the design working. Because when it's good, someone will start to think, oh, maybe I could do that. And somehow the boundary is changed, the frontiers are opened up and, you know, men will think, yeah, I can wear a skirt, actually, because it's not a skirt like it is for a woman. It's. This is the garment that I can wear. And it kind of enhances me and maybe even enhances my masculinity, like the way a kilt does, which is so, so macho. And it's just accepted. I love that look.
- [30:25]
Stefano Pilati
Yeah. And even like the high heel boots, you know, what I've learned, and I designed so many shoes in my life, really like an unbelievable number of shoes. But what I liked about what I did is that they were very. There were boots for men that they can look also good on women, but primarily the boots that they look good on men, you know, and that for me, it was like, whoa, you know, who would have guessed that? I mean, not without guess, because I wanted to, but, you know, and, and I think that that has a lot to do in, you know, I design, I design things that I would wear otherwise I wouldn't, you know.
- [31:19]
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- [32:20]
Bella
On the subject of shoes, you created some amazing things at St. Laurent. One of those things was the tribute sandal. And I wondered what it was a tribute to.
- [32:34]
Stefano Pilati
Oh, why did I call it tribute?
- [32:39]
Bella
Such an amazing.
- [32:41]
Stefano Pilati
A tribute? Well, for sure it was a tribute. I mean, for me, it's always been a tribute to a woman. You know, it's a tribute to a woman. And this. I try to remember if I had another reason to call a tribute, but I guess that every time, you know, because it was very much in my lexicon, like, oh, my gosh, it looks good. This is really. This skirt looks great. It's. It's a tribute to your beauty, is a tribute to your femininity, is a tribute to, you know, has always been a bit like this medium feelings or doing looks, you know, I think it's.
- [33:24]
Bella
One of the reasons why everyone loves your work so much is as a woman, the feeling of how much care you take of a woman is so palpable, so that whenever someone buys your clothes, there's a feeling of being cared for and made to look the best possible version of yourself, which is how you've described wanting your mother to look. And it really travels through. It's such a powerful intention. And the shoe, the way it elevates a woman and it creates this incredible posture. It's very sexy and very independent as well, in a sort of divine and endearing way.
- [34:14]
Stefano Pilati
Well, you know, there was a lot of speculation about how St. Laurent should have been, you know, after St. Laurent. And I guess that I didn't match any of the expectations that people had, because for me, a, was an amazing, elegant designer before being provocative. B, it was an amazing, prolific designer because somehow he really traveled with his mind season after season. And so, you know, you could find. Or we could. We've been able to talk about celeran codes only after, I don't know, 20 years of a body of work, you know, not. Not, like, season after season. And especially, like, with this thing about the codes, when people go like, oh, use the codes of the house. You can't use the code of the house every single season, because otherwise, you know, what is it? I mean, like, I don't know, people, sometimes they should shut up. But anyway, I could tell that he was in admiration with women, and that was very much my approach to, you know, after the 90s where sexy, you know, was everything, you know, and low waist and show the G string and, you know, all these kind of things, you know, like, you know, shirts open and stuff like that. It wasn't at all what I would. I was looking for because for me, the celerant woman was untouchable. The celeron woman was always like, the one in charge, you know, the one that you. Don't touch me. I choose, you know, and. And that, for me was very, very important. And it was kind of hard because basically I was going against. Well, everybody, you know, expected me to do, you know, but for me, it. They expected me to do that because they were. They really didn't understand profoundly what history was and the celeron design was. And in that sense, you know, I. It was a very, you know, unique approach, I would say. My formation, my education in fashion has been always primarily in menswear. And of course, I did want to. You know, when I was little, I was also sketching for womenswear and stuff, you know, and I was thinking about my sisters or my mom. But being menswear, primarily cerutty, Armani, you know, I. I suffered it a bit, but they told me, they taught me that to be a good men's women designer, you should have been, you know, a very good menswear designer and learning the craft of tailoring and. And everything. So the. The first time that I really started to design for women was when I was a Prada. And for me, beside Prada, Miu Miu didn't matter. Really. For me, the most important things is that Miuccia would love what I would suggest, you know, because even if she, you know, sometimes it happens, you know, you. And. And I've never been jealous about this. I've never been like, you know, you give ideas. That's your role. You her assistant. So you dare to give her ideas, you know, for her to choose or not choose, you know, and even sometimes she chose and then she, you know, edited or whatever. I never took it personally because for me, my challenge was to please her. It was to, you know, but not in a yes man kind of way. You know what I mean? Like, to. To feel her challenge and. And to embrace her challenge, you know, and that, for me was like, super formative and. And I loved, you know, to have a woman in mind, you know, but then when I stepped into celeron, who was the woman? Because actually, the woman of the. The 60s, woman of s. The 70s woman of s. And I would say, like, until the mid-80s of Selon, you know, that woman was gone. You know, and so. And everything could have been a retro approach, you know, and you could start, I don't know if you remember about when, you know, all of a sudden, beside the citations of Miuccia of Seloran in her work, you know, like. But Seloran started to be also like, you know, interesting to buy, like, you know, vintage or, you know, all of a sudden, like in the beginning of the 2000s or so, I was like, well, girls, I mean, like, go buy secondhand if you want crap de chine purple, you know, shirt with a cravat, you know, you know what I mean? Or a pleated skirt in, you know, in piet pool, you know, like, why should I give you something that is on in the secondhand shop? And we all know, you know, what is the celeron woman of the 2000s, you know. And so when I stepped into St. Laurent, one of the things that I love the most, and the most challenging as well, is that I realized that for me, to design women's wear was really a journey to the unknown, you know, to a universe that I don't know that I could do. I can do, you know, no matter which effort I make, I will never be a woman, you know. So, you know, I wanted to be as much physical I could, you know, and by the way, and I never been the man that wanted to wear women clothes at all. Never ever. And this has nothing, you know, it's not polemic or whatever. Just say that when I started to do sell around women, you know, I really like drape fabrics on myself. And I remember once I was Sunday afternoon and you know, many times I worked during the weekend because I could focus. I had everything in my studio, you know, in the office and so I could do work, you know. And then I remember that one afternoon I bought these petticoats because I wanted, you know, to see. To feel the weight and to see how they were made. And I wore one, you know, on top of the jeans. Imagine that. Like I'm like this. And I wore one petticoat on, you know, and I was sure that nobody was in the building. And in fact, my all of a sudden, you know, with the music on. And I was like checking. I don't remember if the colors or something, you know, and my CEO just walked in and she was like, whoa, what's going on? You know, And I said to her, you know, like, we all want to do something for women, you know, but poor women. What does it feel, you know, to have this volume around your waist? You know, and walk around and sit and, you know, so that really educated me to. To be fascinated by the journey, by the. By this projection, you know, to. To. In that I. I think that I. It was a way for me to know my feminine side, you know, my femininity. And funnily enough, you know, when I decided to do also my brand, you know, I was like, isn't it weird? Because I have men that they say to me, oh, my God, I love what you. I would wear it all, you know, as a woman, you know, and so I was like, you know, And I don't think has to do with unisex. I think has to do with. Maybe you mentioned it earlier. Like, there is a freedom and fluidity about how I use codes, you know?
- [43:57]
Bella
Yeah.
- [43:59]
Stefano Pilati
And probably is also why, you know, like at Celeron especially, you know, they. They want you to be consistent in something. You know, while for me was, you know, my game, my play, my approach was to challenge, I think you did everything for me.
- [44:26]
Bella
Your collections for Saint Laurent were so authentically Saint Laurent because you brought the avant garde of your own work and his work into the new collections. And I always remember when I was studying fashion in Rome, and Vivienne Westwood was living in Italy as well, doing. And she came over to stay with me, and I showed her my Saint Laurent books, and she was sort of slightly quizzical. And then a bit later, she said, I had no idea what a great design. I didn't realize he'd done everything. And she'd spotted all these things that I hadn't seen, like the cone bra and all these things that had been done later, and he'd done all. All those things. And I. I loved what you did for Santa Ros. I remember, you know, how you use gray flannel, and it was just so. So elegant. And also this thing that you always do, which is radical.
- [45:30]
Stefano Pilati
Well, and also, like, in. You know, Saint Laurent used to do, like, 120 looks. You know what I mean? And. And if you study it, you know, in the Hakuto shows, only the last. Let's say 20 looks were the one that they define the narrative. You know, the theme of that show, you know, because before was, like, you know, it's morning and then it's lunch, and then it's afternoon, and then there's the widow look, and then there's you. You know, there were, like, looks for all the occasions, you know, the ceremony and then the cocktail and I mean. Which was amazing. I mean, that's. That by the Way I. I loved it all, you know, but the spam of attention of the press and the audience is, you know, it got shorter and shorter and shorter. So you. You know, to do 40 looks and to say it all and to try to, you know, also, like, stay focused on what you are researching in that moment, you know, to follow your instincts. It wasn't that easy, you know, and then. And journalists, I guess, they don't. They don't have the time to go deep into it, you know, And I wasn't the best in explaining what I did and why I did it, you know?
- [47:16]
Bella
Well, it is a notoriously hard job being a designer, and I wonder how you cope with the feelings of, you know, feeling down.
- [47:26]
Stefano Pilati
I. I kept working, you know, I remember that they also asked me, like, oh, my God, with so much stress, you know, how do you cope with it? And I was like, just work and just keep working. Yeah, Just keep believing in what I was doing and, you know, and mostly be comfortable with my instincts. Yeah, that's my intuition, you know, I remember that once I did a collection, and at the beginning of the process, I was like, what do you really like? And I was like, a gray sweatshirt. And I was like, oh, great. That is so celeron. You're gonna be like a, you know, major, this show. You know what I mean? It was like, come on. Like, you are Saint Laurent. Would you really like a gray sweatshirt? You're like, oh, no. And so, you know, because I bought two vintage gray sweatshirts, like, in. In New York, and they were so cool, and that's all I liked, you know, and by the way, I end up, you know, to do a show that was all in Jersey or mainly that played with proportion. Proportion. And, you know, he wanted to be also a bit, like, not preppy, but like. Like, with a hint of, like, you know, sportiveness that you could find maybe in the 30s in, you know, like the first tennis uniforms, stuff like that, you know, and then. And then take it further, you know, and make it more glamorous, you know, using, like, the stars and, you know, like plexiglass, you know, T shirts and T shirts. I mean, tops, in retrospect, if I think about it, like, streetwear, you know. You know, like, all we sell now is, like, hoodies and sweatshirts, you know, I mean, and so. And so I was like, you know, and plus, I was doing Ready to wear. I wasn't doing haute couture, you know, so. Which I found also a bit harsh, you know, to pretend that, you know, you, you do something comparable to haute couture, you know, when in fact you're doing Ready to wear.
- [49:52]
Bella
Yeah.
- [49:53]
Stefano Pilati
So I also find that a bit ignorant. You know, like when, when people too cool, they were like, oh, it's not like the old Saint Laurent. And I was like, what you mean, like which, which one? Do you know which one you're talking about? What?
- [50:08]
Bella
It's like people are so attached to Saint Laurent, they feel they own it. It's like James Bond. People are always going on, oh, it's not like this and not like that, while they're missing the beauty of the new that's evolving out of it. And your comment about proportion, which is such a huge thing in fashion, but it's not really discussed, but it's the key thing. It's just made. And I think it's what makes something modern. And I wondered what your favorite shape to impose your look on is. I know you're, you're very good with the shoulder. And do you have a particular form? You spot someone and think, oh, yes, I know what I could do with that shape.
- [50:57]
Stefano Pilati
Oh, you know, this, this is a good point because, for example, you know, even before I moved to Solaran, you know, when we were a Prada, simply like, to go up or down 2 inches with a skirt for us was like, oh, my God, we make it. We made a shorter decision. Oh my God, we made a longer decision. I mean, like, that was it, you know, like the waist or. You know, first of all, I think that there is a reason why I raised the waist. You know, from my very first show, I was sick of seeing women that so de guise that, you know, even if they couldn't wear those pants, those low waist pants, you know, they did and they thought that that was feminine. And men, they responded to it like a feminine gesture, you know, while it's not for everybody, A and B, you know, I thought that especially in that moment at the beginning of 2000, like everywhere was written that men as a male, you know, was. As a, as a gender, you know, was in crisis. Gay liberation was way more popular than ever. Women, you know, were okay to, you know, to be single. Men lost that kind of power, you know, like 20 years before, 30 years before, you know, women that were getting, getting married, you know, just to, you know, somehow like defining their life or mothers or, you know, so there was a real male gender cries going on, you know, and so I thought, and I thought that it was reflected also in fashion, as it should be.
- [53:01]
Bella
Yes.
- [53:02]
Stefano Pilati
You know, and so I they called him Tuliscott. I never really. I. I didn't invented that name in the Vittoria De Sica movies or you know, in Italy, you know, when you, you know, a woman passed by, they. They still do it. Woman pass by and it's really Sophia Loren, you know. And they go like, you know, and they make that shape, you know, with the hands, you know. And I was like, that's ex. Want to bring back in fatim blacks. I have to say that many, many times, you know, was like, oh my God, she looked so uptight. But you could tell that she was probably naked underneath, you know. And I was like, right on is exactly. You know, I. That's a feeling I wanted her to, you know, when I said untouchable.
- [53:52]
Bella
Yeah.
- [53:54]
Stefano Pilati
Unknown, you know, very in, you know, very for yourself.
- [54:01]
Bella
Yeah.
- [54:01]
Stefano Pilati
You know what I mean?
- [54:03]
Bella
Yeah. I think that's. That definitely the. The power of clothes. And. And I wanted to ask you if you fancy someone and you don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your desire?
- [54:17]
Stefano Pilati
My desire towards that someone?
- [54:20]
Bella
Yeah.
- [54:23]
Stefano Pilati
Okay. Okay. So let's say that, you know, I don't even know how they're call this English. I mean, skinny jeans and those short socks, you know that they pretend, you know that people wear like pretending that they don't have the socks on, but they, you know what I'm saying. The one that they cover just the foot, you know, that is such a no go that, you know, I mean, it's really a no go. But I would say that what I distinguish between, you know, to answer that is that if someone for me is sexually very attractive, attracting, and I'm frisky, you know, I can also forget about the skinny jeans and those shoes. You know what I mean? It depends on the occasion, the situation, otherwise in general. Yeah, I. I mean it needs to blow my mind with his mind, you know, and. Because it can be a Nobel prize. But if it, if it was skinny jeans and those socks, I. Yeah, I. I mean I. I kind of avoid. I become, I've become very shady. Very, very shady. Like no doubts, but I. Yeah. Horribly shady. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean those things are the one that. Oh my God, I can't. You know, another thing that turned me off is like the black nail polish on men. I can't. And then, I mean, there's many things. There's many things. But in general, you know, also like. Yeah, that kind of normcore quite luxury looks, you know, for me are like, you know, I mean, there's no escape. They're douchebags.
- [56:43]
Bella
Yeah. You're a designer that other designers look up to and admire, and I wondered, is there anyone that you look up to?
- [56:52]
Stefano Pilati
Well, for me, my idol, I mean, to. To a point of, like, a fan, like, I would have been a groupie if it would been, you know, like, a star. Is. Rei Kawakubo is my absolute idol.
- [57:12]
Bella
Did you ever meet Ray Kaurakuba?
- [57:15]
Stefano Pilati
Oh, my God. I hope you didn't ask me this. Yes, yes, I did. And the first time, it was in the showroom in Place Van Dome. At Van Dome. And so Adrian, you know, told me, oh, you know, come, come, come. I want to introduce you to Ray. Ray's there, you know, she want to meet you, you know, and there was also Ronnie Newhouse there, you know, and. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I cannot, I cannot, I cannot, I cannot, I cannot. I'm gonna be pathetic. I cannot, you know, and literally, Ronnie literally, like, pushed me from the back. Like, you know, when you were a kid, you hide behind your mom, you know, and they actually pull, you know, they like, go, go. You know, and they push you. Like, that scene so already started so wrongly because I was like, come on. And then, you know, when I introduced myself, and I was like, you know, I just wanted to say that, for me, there's nobody above you, and, you know, you're my idol and thank you for everything you do, you know, And I think she, like, you know, also, because, you know, like, a few months later, you know, that I, you know, DSM was also kind of involved with the brand and everything, and so ending up, it happened that I. That I was in a. In a meeting with other people, and it was the actual office where she was, you know, and she stayed there for two hours. Listen to. Listening to me talking, you know, about my brand and stuff, you know, and while I was talking, I was like, oh, my God, am I too loud? Did I laugh too much? Did I, you know, am I too stupid? Or, like, I was, like, wrecked, you know, because nothing would be the worst for me to not have, you know, Ray Kawakubo respect or recognition or validation.
- [59:31]
Bella
You know, it doesn't get much better than that, having.
- [59:35]
Stefano Pilati
I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, he's so marvelous. Yeah. You know, they are there. You know, what I. What I love about my work, which I think I. I expect to see in others, is that when we look up. When we look up for. For someone you know, or at someone is that, you know, for example, for me, you know, Comme des Garcons is a language, you know, Matin was a language.
- [60:04]
Bella
Yeah.
- [60:05]
Stefano Pilati
You know, Helmut was a language. Azdin was a language, you know, and so it's almost like you learn the languages to define yourself and to create your own one, you know?
- [60:19]
Bella
Well, Random Identities is your language. It's your own label, your own design, your own brand. And that seems very much. You seem to bring all the elegance and all the kind of avant garde of your experience and your amazing gift to that brand, which I remember when you launched it at Dover Street Market and I came with my son and we both bought things, and I felt like you took care of us in this way that very few people are able to in terms of our. Our aesthetic and our style. And I wondered what. How you're progressing with Random Identities.
- [61:08]
Stefano Pilati
Well, somehow, you know, after Covid, I never really recovered, you know, and that's a pity. And I wish I wouldn't say this. That said, I still believe that it was a great endeavor. It is. There is, you know, but the purpose of the brand was. Was different. While Celeron, for me was like challenging myself, being a product, like I said earlier, you know, for me it was a challenge, you know, to work for her for Mutual. And Celeron was my challenge, was my research, was my. Was proving myself, you know, that my design was fully expressing what I think, you know, good fashion is.
- [62:12]
Bella
Yeah.
- [62:12]
Stefano Pilati
You know, Random had almost like an educational. Or has an educational spirit in it that is oriented to take care of, you know, the young generation with beautiful clothes, affordable, with no visible logos, actually with the logo that induce who purchases it in, you know, to insert your name in it, you know, to really like to make you feel that you own your clothes, that you. That you own the silhouette that you chose, that you. That the clothes are at your service, not the other way around.
- [63:10]
Bella
Well, thank you so much, Stefano, for being on fashion Neurosis. It's been wonderful to talk to you and listen to you and think about all your ideas and. Thank you so much.
- [63:24]
Stefano Pilati
No, thanks for having me, Bella. I really, you know, I really appreciate it. I have fun.
- [63:31]
Bella
You too.
- [63:33]
Stefano Pilati
Sa.