RERUN: Kate Moss

Summary

Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud — Episode Summary
RERUN: Kate Moss
Release Date: August 12, 2026
Host: Bella Freud
Guest: Kate Moss

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Episode Overview

In this rerun of Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud, iconic model Kate Moss joins Bella for an intimate, lively, and revealing conversation about the interplay between fashion, self-image, and identity. The episode explores how clothes can empower, comfort, or unnerve, drawing on Moss’s personal experiences, formative memories, struggles, and personal style codes. The discussion flows from childhood shoe obsessions to the subversive glamour of Vivienne Westwood, from the politics of “the look” to the comfort of lifelong friendships in the fashion world.

Fashion is revealed not simply as surface, but as an essential language for navigating the world and constructing one’s sense of self.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What We Wear—and Why (01:44–04:23)

• Kate’s Outfit (Inspired by Bella)
  • Moss is wearing an old Saint Laurent dress and Vivienne Westwood sex shoes, channeling Bella’s "masculine feminine" style and their shared fascination with Vivienne Westwood.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 01:49): "This is an old Saint Laurent dress, but it reminds me of... the kind of masculine feminine that you wear. And I’m wearing a Vivienne Westwood sex shoe because that’s what I associate you with as well."
• Ankle Straps as Adolescence and Seduction
  • Both recall fighting for ankle-strap shoes as children and the transformative effect of footwear.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 03:13): "There is something, it’s sort of demure... Probably the ankle is quite a sexual part of your body."

2. Childhood, Early Body Image & the Model’s ‘Instrument’ (04:34–07:36)

• Household Fashion & Early Rebellion
  • Moss’s house “never felt like a fashion household”. Her mother resisted certain “common” styles.
  • Sleeping in her beloved first pair of pale pink ankle-strap shoes.
• Body Hangups & Early Modeling
  • Moss describes modeling topless at 15, her deep discomfort with a mole on her breast, and being compelled to overcome shame for work.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 05:30): "At a very young age I started working and I started doing pictures topless and I was very, very conscious... I hated it so much I would cry... As a model you can’t be very self-conscious because your body’s kind of not your own. You’re a vessel for someone else’s imagination."
  • The intimacy and family-like dynamic during formative shoots with Corinne Day; shy but pressured through industry expectations.

3. Clothes as Social Armor & Belonging (07:36–09:27)

• Discovering Transformative Clothing
  • Iconic moments: Vivienne Westwood bustier, Adidas high tops from New York, leather goose jacket with a mink collar—allowed young Kate entrance into Croydon’s Rue St. George scene.
• The Power of the 'Look'
  • Having “the look” was a necessary code to access clubs and social circles as a teen.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 08:37): "If you wanted to get in a nightclub at 15, you had to have a look for sure."

4. Dressing Up Others: Joy & Childhood Play (09:44–12:08)

• Wardrobe as Playground
  • Moss loves styling friends, embracing the thrill of crafting an unexpected look for each person.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 10:13): "It brings me a lot of joy... creating a look on somebody that they never thought they would do."
  • Childhood stories: dressing her little brother as her invented friend “Sylvia,” full drag, blue eyeshadow, and framed photos.
• Packing Life Into Suitcases
  • Developed the habit of collecting clothing over objects, preferring things she could travel with.

5. The Ritual of Getting Dressed: Mood, People, and Occasion (12:08–14:23)

• Outfit Intentions
  • Moss always considers where she’s going and who she’s seeing, aiming to impress or please.
  • She will choose different clothes based on the friend or occasion.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 12:11): "I always, like, want to please someone a bit... what do I want to. And I want them to like it, I suppose."

6. On Fashion Police, the 'Code,' and Rebellion Against Trends (14:27–17:31)

• Fashion Police Game
  • Moss and her daughter Lila sometimes play Fashion Police, but she resists being judgmental and celebrates originality, not conformity.
• Disdain for Fashion 'Codes' and 'Trends'
  • Strongly rejects the mass adoption of trends and “codes”—dislikes how every shop sells the same 'it bag' or shoe.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 16:39): "I hate fashion codes... I hate that kind of thing like, 'oh, this is fashionable' so everybody has to have that in their shop. It’s not fun when it’s fashionable."
• Host and guest agree trends immediately make something feel 'out.'

7. Personal Icons & Fearlessness in Fashion (17:32–19:57)

• Fashion Inspiration
  • Kate lists David Bowie, Johnny Thunders, Keith Richards, Brigitte Bardot, Grace Kelly, Anita Pallenberg. Both men and women inspire her.
• Anita Pallenberg
  • Stories of hanging out, trying on looks, and Anita’s passion and knowledge for fashion, her originality, and her fearless taste.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 19:17): "She’s fearless when it came to fashion."

8. Clothes and Romantic Attraction (20:05–24:18)

• What Men Wear: Attraction or Repel?
  • Moss admits attraction to old, lived-in men’s shirts, but shuns “trendy” fashionable menswear.
  • Cowboy boots were almost a dealbreaker for one boyfriend—but sometimes love triumphs over questionable footwear.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 21:18): "I can’t go out with somebody who wears cowboy boots... but thank God it... didn’t put me off."
• Styles and Body Types
  • Both confess to preferring men who appear natural and not overly fit; gym bodies feel unappealing.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 24:03): "Even if they do go to the gym, they can’t look like they do really. It’s like natural. Yes, natural muscles."

9. Vivienne Westwood: Radical Glamour and Show Memories (26:48–33:23)

• First Westwood Shows
  • Kate recalls the chaos, punk energy, and liberating rebellion of Westwood’s early runway shows.
  • Anecdotes about wearing corsets and confronting toplessness.
• Design History
  • Bella shares stories of Westwood’s design research, including the “flat” 18th-century corset that became a sensation.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 30:21): "If you didn’t have a Vivienne Westwood corset, you were not getting in... It was such a thing of that era, for me... Vivienne Westwood was such a statement of like, I don’t give a fuck. I’m gonna wear this."
• Changing Nature of Fashion Shows
  • Contrasts wild, unpredictable old-school shows with today’s regimented schedules and endless prep.

10. The Fashion World: Friendship and Support (33:23–37:41)

• Loyalty Among Models
  • Supermodels Naomi Campbell and Christy Turlington looked after young Kate—a sense of sisterhood.
  • Carla Bruni once rescued Moss from Milan hunger.
• Handling Scandal
  • When Moss faced industry scandal, the fashion world collectively supported her and “refused to let her be cancelled.”
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 34:31): "I had so much support from people in the fashion business... 'No, we’re not gonna let them cancel you.'"
• Lasting Friendships
  • Many of Moss’s oldest and closest friends are from the industry; work bonds became family.

11. On Being a Model and Outlasting the Game (37:17–38:07)

• Modeling at 50
  • Kate is still surprised and grateful she’s in demand after decades, despite others’ disbelief.
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 37:41): "I do get surprised because I did not think that I would be working at 50, that’s for sure."

12. Nudity, Shoes, and Intimacy (38:19–40:15)

• What to Wear When Naked
  • Moss prefers a heel when naked with a man; Bella prefers a bra, wanting “something left to take off.”
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 38:48): "If I’m totally naked... with a man, definitely. I like to have a heel."

13. Emotional Clothes: Nighties, Shoes, and Kinks (40:18–44:58)

• Clothes as Comfort for Down Days
  • Pretty nighties at home brighten Moss’s mood.
• Best Gift from a Lover
  • Cerise-pink satin Christian Louboutin shoes from her ex-husband—most inspired, sexiest present.
  • Amusing complaints about impractically high stilettos in later years.
• Fashion Kinks and Dressing Crisis
  • Moss’s “kink,” if any, is defaulting to a black cocktail dress. True enthusiasm for clothes is instinctive—she struggles when she can’t find the right feeling for an outfit, describing full-blown “fashion crises.”
  • Quote (Kate Moss, 43:55): "If I haven’t got some kind of excitement or something, if I’m nervous and don’t want to go... I just can’t get dressed. I have cried before... with loads of clothes around me and shoes and, like, nothing is gonna make me feel like I want to leave the house."

14. Dress Sense as Identity & Closing Reflections (46:14–47:32)

• Clothes as Intelligence and Legacy
  • Bella recalls her father’s phrase: "In your wardrobe, hang your brains."
  • They muse on the transformative power of a great overcoat, and the subtle authority of classic tailoring for men.
• Affectionate Goodbye
  • Kate playfully awaits her 'evaluation,' closing with laughter and warmth.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There is something, it’s sort of demure... probably the ankle is quite a sexual part of your body." — Kate Moss (03:13)
• "As a model you can’t be very self-conscious because your body’s kind of not your own. You’re a vessel for someone else’s imagination." — Kate Moss (05:30)
• "If you don’t have a Vivienne Westwood corset, you were not getting in...Vivienne Westwood was such a statement of like, I don’t give a fuck. I’m gonna wear this." — Kate Moss (30:21)
• "I hate fashion codes...It’s not fun when it’s fashionable." — Kate Moss (16:39)
• "Anita [Pallenberg]—she was fearless when it came to fashion." — Kate Moss (19:17)
• "Even if they do go to the gym, they can’t look like they do really. It’s like natural. Yes, natural muscles." — Kate Moss (24:03)
• "In your wardrobe, hang your brains." — Bella’s father, cited by Bella Freud (46:29)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:44 — Start of the Interview; Kate’s Outfit Details
• 03:22 — Childhood Ankle-Strap Shoe Stories
• 04:37 — Body Hangups and Early Modeling Pressures
• 07:43 — First Time Clothes Changed Kate’s Self-Perception
• 09:44 — Dressing Up Friends and Childhood Play
• 12:08 — How Kate Thinks About Getting Dressed for Others
• 14:27 — Fashion Police Anecdotes with Lila
• 16:39 — Kate’s Disdain for Fashion Codes and Trends
• 17:37 — Style Icons
• 20:05 — Clothes Men Wear (and Cowboy Boot Crisis)
• 26:48 — Vivienne Westwood Show Memories
• 33:41 — Friendships and Mentors in the Fashion World
• 38:19 — On Nakedness and the Psychology of Shoes
• 40:18 — Comfort Clothing for Bad Days
• 41:06 — Best Present from a Lover
• 43:55 — Fashion Crises and Emotional Dressing
• 46:29 — "In Your Wardrobe, Hang Your Brains" Poem

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Summary Tone

The conversation is candid, coolly confessional, funny, evocative, and occasionally poignant—a blend of irreverence, affection, and real talk about the intense pleasures and pressures of fashion as a personal and social force. Moss’s humility, wit, and legendary sense of style shine through, while Bella’s warmth and curiosity draw out stories and reflections that offer listeners a rare glimpse into the backstage reality of iconic fashion moments and the everyday drama of getting dressed.

Transcript

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[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

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[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Kate Moss.

[Kate Moss]

Hi, Bella.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Can you describe what you're wearing today and why you chose these clothes?

[Kate Moss]

I was inspired by you today, actually. This is an old Saint Laurent dress, but it reminds me of the kind of things, the kind of like masculine feminine that you wear. And I'm wearing a Vivienne Westwood sex shoe because that's what I associate you with as well. Like, that's how I, when I met you, just left Vivienne. And I know that she inspired you a lot. So that's why I chose this to.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I like the sheer tight as well. That's. Yeah, really very pretty and very, very kind of. Belle de Jour.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

With the sex shoe.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, yeah. She's always a good look, isn't it? Reference Belle du Jour.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I wanted to ask you whether fashion was a thing in your household and did you have to ever fight to wear the things you wanted to wear?

[Kate Moss]

I definitely never thought of my house as a fashion household, ever. I was never like, I want that dress or any. Or, you know, no, it wasn't, but. And I had to fight for a pair of Ankle strap shoes because my mum said they were common. And eventually I got them from Ravel, I think I was about 8. And I remember driving home with them on. They were pale pink ankle straps and I was like, oh my God. I couldn't stop looking at them and I just went to sleep in them and I loved them so much. It's funny, isn't it?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. I remember we didn't really have new things and I came to London and visited my dad and he took me to this shop, it was called T T Elliot on the corner of Westbourne Grove. And I bought these wedges with a blue. They had ankle straps too.

[Kate Moss]

It's all about an ankle strap. Well, how old were you?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I was 14 then.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And I remember going home on the train, pulling up my skirt and putting my feet on the seat across and like thinking, admiring.

[Kate Moss]

Now finally, I think it is something about an ankle strap being like sexy, isn't it? Still now when I wear an ankle strap, it's like it, it feels like a bit, it's. There is something, it's sort of demure.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

But there's this thing holding your ankle.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. It definitely draws attraction to the ankle and probably the ankle is quite a sexual part of your body.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. Like in, even in Jane Austen and stuff. They go on about the ankle or the wrist, you know, these bits that they get to see.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And do you have any hang ups about your body?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, of course.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Because you're so good at. I mean, I've watched you working and you just treat yourself as an instrument and you act as though you have no self consciousness and you're dazzling. Like in those vampire films where they talk about the vampires glamorizing someone. And you do that when you're working. You glamorize everyone and we become spellbound by you.

[Kate Moss]

Well, I think at very young age I started working and I started doing pictures topless and I was very, very conscious of. I have a mole on my right tit and I hated it so much I would cry. I never wanted to show, never wanted to be topless. I would cry and I had to get over it because the photographer was like, if you don't do this, I'm not gonna book you for the next job. So I had to get over it. And so then I was just like, nobody really gives a shit about my model. So. And then I just kind of like. I think as a model you can't be very self conscious because your body's kind of not your own. When you're a When you're a vessel for somebody else's imagination,

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

that's so interesting.

[Kate Moss]

Something like that.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. God. And was that Corin with that? Was that the current Day pictures?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. And I was like, 15, and I was topless in a magazine, and I was still at school. And luckily the face wasn't really sold in Croydon, so I don't think anyone really saw it, but I was still. I. No, I mean, they did. They heard, and it was kind of like, you know, they took the piss out of my brother and all, like, your sister's got her tits out. And, you know, I think he probably suffered more than I did about.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Must have taken a lot of courage. I mean, everyone else had those pictures on their tear sheets, you know, as inspiration, because it was so fresh and beautiful. You looked so amazing.

[Kate Moss]

I think at the time, it was very closed. I mean, it was only me and Corinne and Mel and Drew Jarrett is their hairdresser, and Dick Page was the makeup artist. And so, you know, the boys. I'd make the boy. I'd make Drew turn around. Cause he was straight. And I was like, I'm not having him look at me. And, you know, I kind of was. I was really shy, but it was like family. I'd worked with them so many times already that I knew them really well. But I still, like, even after that shoot, I did cry a lot about taking my clothes off with her. I really didn't want to do it.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And do you remember the first time you found a piece of clothing that made you feel different?

[Kate Moss]

I think, like. Like Vivienne Westwood, like, the bustier. When I was, like, 15, I thought, I think, like, we'd go down the Rue St. George in Croydon, and I had, like, a pair of Adidas high tops I'd got in New York when I'd gone. And a puffer jacket. A leather. Not puffer jacket. A leather goose with a mink collar, black. And we'd gone to Harlem to buy it on Easter Sunday, and it was packed. It was so mental. And I went home and they were all like, oh, my God. It was like proper fash. And that was the look. And, yeah, I was allowed in the Rue St. George after that, even though I was 15.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Ha.

[Kate Moss]

Because I did look on.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, it's amazing the power of a look where it just kind of makes people accept you. I mean, it sounds prejudice, but it's not, actually. It just a good look and.

[Kate Moss]

Well, I mean, if you wanted to get in a nightclub at 15, you had to have a look for sure. I mean, even if you're a boy at that time, you know, if you were head to toe in Westward, you know, in a three tongue trainer and a. You know, I don't know, it was all like fashion. It was more fashion then.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

Like late 80s, like the wag and the Brain and, you know, the clubs that we used to go to and come up from Croydon on the train and it was like, are we going to get in? And, you know, they push us to the front, obviously, the girls, me and my friend, and, you know, we'd be all like, you know, trying to be sexy and get in. And then they were with us, so then they'd get in, the boys.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Do you remember that night we went to see George Michael at the Albert Hall? And then we all went back to your place afterwards with Stefano Pilati and Johnny Shan Kid and Jerry Stafford. And then you made us all dress up. You dressed everyone up from your wardrobe.

[Kate Moss]

That is my favorite thing to do, really. It's almost like a challenge for me, like when I go, like, I know what I've got to look for you. And the challenge of in my wardrobe, I've got something for everyone and I love doing that. It is my favorite, like creating like a look on somebody that they never thought they would do or they wouldn't have thought about. It's like. It brings me a lot of joy doing that because.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

When did you start doing that?

[Kate Moss]

I mean, I think I was in my 20s when I started, like, getting a lot of clothes, like collecting clothes from, like, you know, I bought things from India, you know, just on travels and stuff. It's always been easier for me to buy something that I can fit in my suitcase, because I lived out of a suitcase for so long. I wouldn't think twice about spending £3,000 on a dress. But when it comes to, like, something I can't fit in my suitcase, like a piece of furniture or a picture, I can't. I don't know, I've got, like a block. So I had a lot of clothes

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

because. Didn't you used to dress up your little brother?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, Sylvia, he was called Sylvia. And I think basically I was. My mum wouldn't really. Didn't really like people coming over to play. I don't know why, but so I would get bored and I'd dress him up and then I'd make him, like, ring the doorbell and pretend he was my friend. And Sylvia, he found a picture of Sylvia and framed it, saying, 2K, love Sylvia. I mean, it's the Most hilarious. He's got. I don't know where I found a brown wig. He looks like Elizabeth Taylor. Kind of gone wrong. He's got like massive tits. He was only like seven or something. So funny. It's really. And blue eyeshadow, obviously, and a beauty spot and red lipstick. He looks like a really major drag queen, like. But as an 8 year old.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And you dress him up?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, I dress him up and make him ring the doorbell and say, is Kate coming out? Can Kate come out and play? So I had, like. I made up a friend and how

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

did your mum react to that?

[Kate Moss]

Can't remember, probably. No, she can't. I don't know. You silly bugger. I'm cooking the tea. Leave me alone. I don't know.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And where do you start with an outfit?

[Kate Moss]

I start with like, where am I going and who am I seeing? Like, I kind of. I always. Because I have to. Because if you've got too many options, you have to kind of, I think, narrow it down to like, who am a bit. Not who am I today? Cause it's always. But who am I with today and what kind of. I always, like, want to please someone a bit. It's almost like I want somebody. I want to wear something that when I turn up, they go, oh, I like that. I wouldn't wear like the same thing to see you as I would to see Katie Grant, weirdly. Or somebody like that. I don't know, like. Or Camilla. I don't know, like women or men or whoever, I think. And also, like, where am I going? Like, and who's gonna be there and what do I want to. And I want them to like it. I suppose.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

This is like my dream look. The things that really inspired me when I was first starting my own label. This, I like, cover up, but I like very short and legs, I think

[Kate Moss]

are so funny because I wouldn't have thought that about you. I always. I always, you know, think you're a suit girl.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

Apart from when you wore that amazing pink Aussie clutch. Remember that?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, my. No. Was it Aussie clutch? No. You had a dress on from like the 20s.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yes, I had one that Susie Cave sent me.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And it was just like this rag and it was the prettiest thing.

[Kate Moss]

So amazing. I think you should wear dresses more like, you know, like that time I. You had a note. You had something at your shop and I found that Aussie Clark and it had the red, green and gold stripe.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate Moss]

And I was like, that's so Bella.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

And you were like, where's that dress from?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. I love it when there's so many times when you've appeared and you've done exactly that. I've become enchanted by what you've done with what you're wearing and the kind of effect it's had. You're a master at that.

[Kate Moss]

I don't know about master or anything.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Oh, yes.

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Do you and Lila still do Fashion Police?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, I did it yesterday. I was not just me and Lila, just me on my own. I was like. I was in the car and there was this woman and this man, and they were walking down the street and she had like a. I don't know, it was the weirdest look. And I went, I bet. Where are they from, those people? They're definitely not English. And he had a big camera, so I knew he was like a. He was a tourist. And they were walking down Camden High Street. She had a Port Pie hat and a yellow Chanel backpack, tights, leather shorts, and a yellow Nike high top trainer. And it was extraordinary. And I really was like, nina, Nina, Nina, pull him over. And then I was like, where are you from?

[Commercial Announcer]

From?

[Kate Moss]

And they were France, because we had a bet that they were Canadian.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Canadian.

[Commercial Announcer]

Canadian.

[Kate Moss]

I was like, they're definitely not from Paris, for sure. I'm terrible. It is a bit. They were nice, though. I said, oh, bon jourd, you know, and, you know, have a lovely day. I wasn't rude, But I do like it. I do like going like, wow, what were they thinking?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I love the nude.

[Kate Moss]

Not like, I don't like doing that. I don't want to be judgy, but, you know when you just go like, nino, Nino. Like Fashion Police. There is a. There was a TV show, wasn't there, called Fashion Police.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Was there?

[Kate Moss]

Maybe I'm making it up. Maybe I should have one. You should have one. We should have one together. Around the streets of all the different countries, especially. And then like the really good ones, like, wow, where did they come up with that?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, but it's like. It's the code, isn't it? That's what I love about what you're describing. Sometimes I get on the tube and I see someone wearing just amazing look, and I wonder what they're. Everyone's always doing something. It's like, how am I gonna affect. And I suppose in fashion, there's so much code.

[Kate Moss]

I hate code.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

What bit of it don't you like? Cause I hate to see it as shortcut, like what you're describing as shortcut. But, oh, tell me what the code.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, I hate fashion codes.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

Like, I hate, like, oh, this bag's in fashion. So everybody designs the same fucking bag and sells the same bag. I hate that kind of thing. Like, oh, this is fashionable. So everybody has to have that in their shop. I really don't like that. Like, I walked through the airport the other day, and in every shop was the same shoe in the same bag from, like, every designer. I was like, what the fuck is the point in doing that? I don't understand. Nobody's just. Nobody's like, they might put it on the Runway different, but then when it gets to the shop, it's all the same. It's like, why it's not fun when it's fashionable. Or, like, you know, like the trends. That's what they call them, isn't it? Trends. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Trends are terrible.

[Kate Moss]

Trends are awful.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Because as soon as it's a trend,

[Kate Moss]

you wear it anymore.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, it's out. You're dated the minute you're trendy.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Because it's done. Is there anyone who's inspired you, fashion wise?

[Kate Moss]

So many people. David Bowie, Jolly Thunders Keith. You know, men, I think, inspired me just as much as women. Like, you know, Brigitte Bardot, Grace Kelly, Anita Pallenberg.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, Anita was.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, Anita inspired me. Well, she inspired me because of her love for fashion as well. I would hang out with her and we would spend all night in my wardrobe, like, doing looks and playing and shopping. And we'd go to, like, you know, vintage places, and she would be like, that dress is a 30s Schiaparelli or something. You know, she knew so much about it as well, and she kind of. She was really. She had, like, an amazing taste.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

She put things together in such an original way. But even saying the word original way sounds awful. She was just. She just had no. There was nothing that. There was no barrier. She would just do things. And then you'd wonder why on earth you'd never seen that before. Cause it was just so.

[Kate Moss]

I know the last thing she like. When I went to stay in Jamaica and she just left and she left me a present on the bed, saying, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not there. I hope you have an amazing time. They were lime green lightning bolts like that for this. Long earrings with, like, crystals all over them. I was like, wow, she would actually wear them.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

She would.

[Kate Moss]

I mean, that takes like. She's like, fearless when it came to fashion.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, she was fearless. And God, she was so strict as well. So when she chose something when she'd say, I need to buy a jumper from you. And I think, oh, thank God. You know.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, it's okay. You know, I'm.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, if Anita likes it, I'm doing all right.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Oh, God. But she. I often think of her if I feel like I need a compass. I think, Anita.

[Kate Moss]

What would Anita do? What would you do?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yes. Yeah, I know. She was just the best.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And is there a random garment that a man wears that attracts you?

[Kate Moss]

A random garment?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Well, I suppose I only say that because I think if I see a man in a khaki shirt, I just down. I just think, oh, that's attractive.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. I was gonna say a shirt.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Really?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. See, I, like, weirdly, kind of like old men's shirts. One of my boyfriends had this shirt that was, like, passed down from his grandfather, and it was a dress shirt, but it was, like, so old and like, you know, when it's just lived and he would wear it, and I was just, oh, so, you know, because, I don't know, like, old things. Like, my friend's grandfather died, and she gave me his old, like, Turnbull and Assa pyjamas that he'd had. You know, like, they'd been worn and worn and worn and worn, and they were so beautiful. I was like, oh, you know, like, that kind of old worn. Yeah, I'm not really. I don't. For me, like, men in, like, trendy, fashionable clothes don't do it for me at all.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

So if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

[Kate Moss]

Well, it's funny you used to say that, actually, because there was a boy that I really fancied, and I was like, oh, my God, but he wears cowboy boots. The am I gonna do with that? I can't go out with somebody who wears cowboy boots. And when was this? And then a long time ago when I was, like, 17. And you know him, obviously, he was American as well. Disaster in a cowboy boot. And I was like, do you know what? I'm gonna let it go. I can get rid of them. I'll just lose them. So I did, and I went out with him for ages. And, you know, he was one of the, like, the loves of my life. So thank God it was, you know, it didn't put me off. So there's always room for negotiation, I think.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, that's a good way of putting.

[Kate Moss]

But then I did see somebody the other day, and they had a really bad Shoe on. And I thought, no, I can't. I mean he was really cute. It wasn't for me, it was a friend of mine. He was a friend of mine. But she asked me, what do you think? And I was like, he's really cute. But that shoe is kind of like a no go.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

So they have to be bigger than the offending piece of clothing or gut Excess.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. It's awful in. It seems so shallow.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It sort of sounds it in a way, but I think there's something in it because I think there are other messages. So it's like a love test. If someone like the cowboy boot, you got over it and there was a love and sometimes you override it, which is different and it's a disaster.

[Kate Moss]

Like I think, you know those kind of holiday romances, like when you see somebody on a beach and you're like, oh my God, they're so cute. And then you see them in normal clothes that can be a passion killer. You get them back to London and you're like, fuck me, no way. It's like a kind of different person really for me. It's like if you're wearing, you know, it's like almost like city clothes and then beach clothes and somebody on holiday is so different than somebody in. Yeah. In town.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I suppose it changes all the proportion, doesn't it? Because they can look like on a beach completely sort of just a person. And then when they. If the clothes are wrong, you see the wrongness.

[Kate Moss]

You're the same as me, aren't you? Really?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Because I don't mind. I mean I quite like unfit looking men like the seed.

[Kate Moss]

I don't like, I don't want anyone that looks like they've been. The gym.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

No.

[Kate Moss]

Even if they do go to the gym, they can't look like they do really. It's like natural. Yes, Natural muscles.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I know, it's a funny. I just sort of registered that recently and thought yeah, I actually find it quite sexy when someone's a bit out of shape.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, yeah. I'm not into like. I think it was probably from like growing up around male models as well. I just really like those kind of pretty boys with perfect bodies. Just don't saying that. You never know, do you? But you know, usually it's not the kind of guy I go for. Obviously my track record is not the kind of man I'm attracted to.

[Podcast Host]

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[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Do you remember the old Vivienne days of Vivienne Westwood shows? Like when you first walked in her show and what it was like. I always remember seeing you in one of. I think it might have been the first one you did because I'd left by then and I came to a show in Paris and you came out in a corset, but it just finished under the boobs. And I thought, oh God, that corset's on back to front.

[Kate Moss]

And actually that's so funny.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I don't think it was.

[Kate Moss]

No, it wasn't.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It wasn't.

[Kate Moss]

No. I looked on YouTube, but by that point, that's what I'm saying. I had to get over the whole tit thing. And then everyone just whipped my tits out. Even though I didn't even. Like, I had such a phobia about them. I was like, I mean, still. Well, not actually Still. But, you know, like, for a long time I would do shoots and I had no top on. A long time. And. Yeah, and at Vivienne's show. And I think because they were, they were. I was kind of so flat chested that it wasn't like vulgar. They could kind of use me as like. Like it wasn't. If I'd have had like amazing big tits, like Helena Christensen or something, and they put her in a corset with their tits out, it kind of would have changed the vibe because I was so flat chested and I had a big mole. It was different.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, you were just like an angenue. I mean, you just were so enchanting. You were so charming. There was so much charm in your whole demeanor and how you wore that. And it was like you didn't really notice the nakedness. And Vivienne wasn't. She wasn't really into sexualizing people. She just wanted the clothes to be a certain way and to be radical.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, it's funny you should say that though, because all those clothes I think of are so sexy. Like the bustiers and the sex shoes and the. Even the punk stuff that was like, you know, radical was so sexy.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It was.

[Kate Moss]

And the crutch minis and the whole thing is like. But the way she saw it, it was never sexual in that way, was it? Yeah, it was kind of like, fuck you way.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I know it was. It was amazing. So I remember her developing the corset and we went to the.

[Kate Moss]

No way. Were you there?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, I was there then and because she'd come back from Italy and I started working for her then. I think I was about 23 or something, or 22. And we went to the costume department of the National. The. No, the Opera House. And she said, I want to find this corset, like the old ones.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And then she found it and I was expecting something like, you know, that had room for breasts. But there was this thing. It was like flat. Yeah, totally flat. It was like a kind of washing board or something. And I thought, oh, no, that's awful. And I just so didn't get it. But she. Her thing, you know, she just saw beyond.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, my God, that's crazy.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And then she made the corset. I remember the first one took something like 28 hours to make. And then gradually, obviously it speeded up like mad. And what was amazing was that all the girls just became obsessed with them.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. In Croydon, I used to go to Cinderella, Rockefeller's and there was like. Like if you didn't have a fucking fifth year Westwood corset, you were not getting it. You weren't anyone. You were like. It's like. You just weren't. It's like a thing. You had to have one. And I'd saved up. I mean, I saved up and every. You know, it was just. Yeah, it's like. It was such a thing of that era for me and for lots of people, I think Vivienne Westwood was such a statement of like, I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna wear this. And, you know, my parents couldn't. You know, it was like. It was a rebellious thing, I think she had, like. It was. She set out to do something like that, and obviously not with punk and everything, but, you know, as well, when she did all that with the buzz, Jason, it really was like rebellion.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It was. It was amazing. Also using her love of kind of 18th century and stuff, and having this decollete right up under the chin and then this flat rib cage and then this. It was just wild, wasn't it? It was so.

[Kate Moss]

I know. And then with the rocking horseshoes all, like, laced up and with the angels painted on the bustiers and the whole, like. And the pearls and that. Oh, mate. I mean, she's major. She was amazing.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

She was so great.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. And I loved. I mean, doing her shows and the chaos and the whole, like. You know, it was. You know, it's not. It was so punk still, wasn't it? Even though she was like. Everybody was in the front row. Like, it was so, like, mental.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It was really, really exciting.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, it was really exciting.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And then fashion shows were much longer then as well. It went on for ages.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, then we'd have, like, three. But, you know, some shows, we'd have six looks. Yeah. Now they have one look and they have, like, five hours of hair and makeup or like, something ridiculous. Like, the last show I did and Lila was in it, she had to be at the show at 8 in the morning, and the show wasn't till 7 at night. God, I was like, fucking hell. What are they doing to her?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

And then it was like, rehearsal. Rehearsal. This. I don't know. I mean, I have no idea. I was like, my God, can you imagine? I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I would get over that. I mean, end of the way, I was like. I'd turn up, like, half an hour before.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. Everyone knew what to do, even though it was complete chaos.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. And it didn't matter even if I turned up three hours before. I'd still be the last one to get ready anyway, so.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Really?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, because I just couldn't stop talking to everyone. I was just. So I could sit still. So I'd like just procrastinate about having it done. And I'd be like, oh, there's such calling. First lips. And I'd still be smoking somewhere.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Smoking. Back in the day, backstage. Yeah. What made you feel secure back when there were all the supers? Did you have like a big sister who. Super who took care of you? I mean, you the youngest of all of them and did you have like a favorite or people?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, Christie and Naomi kind of took me under their wing. It's, you know. Yeah, they did. And then I felt secured. But there was a long time where I didn't have friends, you know, who did as well, before I even knew Naomi and Chris. Carla Bruni, she was so nice to me. She took me for dinner once. Cause I was like, starving to death. We were in Milan. She's like, darling, you know. And I was like, I'm so hungry. You know, where I'm staying, there's no food, there's no room service. And she took me for dinner. She was really nice.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

What you don't hear about in, you know, film or you don't see in films or you don't hear about is all the loyalties in the fashion world. And I know there's loads of terrible stuff, but there are. Is a lot of good stuff. And there's a lot of friendships and people do look out for each other.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, when I. There was, you know, when I had a bit of a. What do you call it, scandal. I had so much support from people in the fashion business, you know, that they were like, fuck this. And, you know, as soon as kind of I was able to go back to work, I got booked by everybody in like, kind of like a. No, we're not going to let them cancel you kind of thing. Yeah, it was amazing.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

So good, because, I mean, I know fashion's corporate and everything, but there's still. The individuals within it are so conscientious. You know, people really stick up for each other and they just don't take shit.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And they don't conform nearly as much as other.

[Kate Moss]

I mean, I've got most. I've been in. You know, most of my oldest friends are in the fashion business. I mean, most of my friends I've met through fashion. So, you know, it's. You know, it's not they're not just fashion people. They're like my oldest friends.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

I mean, I've known Jess Hallett for 37 years. It's like fucking mental.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

So amazing. She was a booker. Did she work at Storm?

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, she worked at Storm. She was my booker, and then she was my pa and then she was my maid of honor. And my God, you know, my daughter's godmother. And, you know, she's family.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

She comes every Christmas. So it's not really through fashion. You make really good friends.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. I think because people work so hard as well. When you work together in that way,

[Kate Moss]

they understand what you have to do. Like, if you told, like, normal people, like, you know, my mum still doesn't understand, like, when I say I've really worked, I've been working so hard, she's like, yeah, right. What do you do? Stand in front of a camera. That's what I think that she means when she says she don't work. Like, mm. You don't really know what I have to do.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I know. I think people perceive models, I think maybe less so now. There seems to be finally a real appreciation of what a model can bring to the story. How a model lights everything up, gives the. Because clothes are nothing without people, of course. And that's why, you know, when you did go through that horrible time, everyone just wanted to show you. We wanted you there, you know, we wanted to be by your side and you showing how great you can make everything look.

[Kate Moss]

I think it's quite funny, like, sometimes, even yesterday I was working, they were like, God, you really know. You know, you're so good. And I was like, people are still quite surprised when they see me working. I think they, like. They don't get, like. Some people just don't get it. They're like, really? How is she still working? And then I go on set and they're like, oh,

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

God.

[Kate Moss]

Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Kate Moss]

I mean, I go. I do get. I still get surprised some. You know that I get like, oh, my God, I'm still working. It's mental. I do get surprised because I did not think that I would be working at 50. That's for sure. I was like, 19. I got my. Whenever it was 18, I got my first vocal and I was like, okay, okay, I'm out. I'm fine with that. That's fine. I did it. I'm done. Even if I never work again, I did Vogue. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah. How many Vogue covers have you done now?

[Kate Moss]

I don't know a lot. I think I'm like, I've had the most British Vogue covers.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Do you ever do Runway for a boyfriend to remind him of how good you are?

[Kate Moss]

That's so funny. Imagine like, this is what I used to be. Like, this is how I can move. No, I never do Runway, but I do strip. I do. I do quite like stripping as my. I think it was. I think it was. I was a stripper in a former life, actually.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And being naked. How do you feel about being naked? Do you wear something to be naked or are you good at being totally naked?

[Kate Moss]

I need a heel. If I'm totally naked, I mean, I can do. I mean, I don't on my own, but with a man, definitely. I like to have a heel. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

So interesting that. Because I don't want to. I can never be totally naked.

[Kate Moss]

But really.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

No, I like to have something on and then I'm naked. But being interesting, being naked, it's like. I suppose like when I was sitting for my dad, I'd have no clothes on.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And that was. There was. That was for a purpose.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. Because as a teacher, I can be like. Well, yeah, when I sat for your dad, I was totally naked. And yeah, it was a different. Exactly. It was a purpose, but in my own life. With a shoe. But you wear something. Like what. What would you wear? Am I not supposed to ask you questions?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

You can ask me. I'd probably.

[Kate Moss]

Is anyone gonna do you? No.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah, I wear. I probably wear a bra. I don't know why. I mean, I have got hardly any tits, but I like that. I somehow feel like I've got some control. There's something still left to take off.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, God. Now I'm going to take that on the shoe. Still something. Still a mystery. I don't think there's anything mystery with my body by now.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I might try the shoe, though.

[Kate Moss]

Try. Put the shoe on.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Quite good. And are there certain clothes that make you feel better when you're feeling low?

[Kate Moss]

No, I think if I'm feeling low, I'm feeling low. Like, if I. Oh, I actually, if I'm like, you know, if I'm feeling low, usually I don't want to go out. So if I, like, have a bath and put, like a nice. Like a nice nighty, like something like that always makes me feel better. Like, going to bed in, like, something pretty and like. Oh, even if I'm in bed and I'm not going out, then I still feel better. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And what's the best present that a lover has Ever given. You must be quite daunting to buy

[Kate Moss]

you something because you've what like clothes wise?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

Oh, my ex husband bought me a pair of shoes. He's the only person to have ever bought me a pair of shoes. Not per. He's the only lover to bought me a pair. And they were Christian Louboutin and they were like cerise. Cerise pink. They were satin and they were like a purpley pink. They were fucking gorgeous. I was like. When I opened that box I was like. That was inspired because I fucking loved them. And I was like that is the sexiest gift I've ever got.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

That's really.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, they were amazing.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Classic.

[Kate Moss]

They are amazing. I've still got them.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Are they the ones he called after you? The so Kate shoes?

[Kate Moss]

No, it was before the so Kate. It was like it's a stiletto but it wasn't a so Kate one.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yeah.

[Kate Moss]

I can't walk. I can't walk in the so Kate anymore.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I tried to walk in the socate.

[Kate Moss]

So Kate is so high. Is it ridiculous? I don't know how I ran around in those for years, but I did so high. I think after the pandemic I just couldn't do it anymore. Two years of not running around in a sokay and I was out of practice. He's making them short. He's made them smaller.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

He's done a lower version.

[Kate Moss]

A lower version? Yeah, because granny can't wear them anymore.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

So it's something about stilettos that are harder to wear as you get older. But I still wear platforms and I love a built up shoe.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

I love to have elevation.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

That makes me feel I can do anything. Anything.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

If I'm feeling low.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And I get the shoes on.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, exactly. Then you're ready to go. You can like take on the world kind of. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And do you have a fashion kink?

[Kate Moss]

What's that mean?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Well, I'm not totally sure, but it ha. It's sort of an off thing that you go to as a sort of. As a sort of guide to feeling. I've got it for tonight.

[Kate Moss]

No black. I mean, I don't know if in doubt black cocktail dress. I don't know. What's a kink? A kink or like is a kink something that you wouldn't expect?

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

No, I think it's a sort of aberration from your normal self. Like. I mean it's not like you do think you have your. Your very original full stop anyway, but it's like and you're. You're so familiar with fashion. And is there a. Like, a place where you go against fashion, but it's part of your sort of way that you know you've got it right?

[Kate Moss]

No, I think. No, I mean fashion for me, like, there's always something in my mind that's, like. That's leading. Like, is it. It's like a weird instinct that I feel. And when I'm not feeling that, it's a disaster, like, to get dressed if I haven't got, like, some kind of excitement or something, if I'm nervous and I don't want to go, or if it's like, I just can't get dressed. I just. Literally anything I put on just doesn't work. And I just don't want to go. And I'll, like, cry. I have cried before, like, I haven't got anything and pulled everything out of the closet like, once or twice in my life. I remember, like, just having complete fashion crisis and being, like, in a heap on the floor with loads of clothes around me and shoes and, like, nothing is gonna make me feel like I want to leave the house. Terrible, isn't it? But you know what? I think a lot of girls have it. And I don't know about men, but I know. Like, I know. I don't know about a lot of girls, but I know they do they.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Do they. I think everyone has it.

[Kate Moss]

Like, nothing fits. Nothing looks good. Nothing. You know, I think it's just an internal thing.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It's like a superstition almost, isn't it? You get dressed and you think, oh, no, this hasn't worked. I don't know what to do. Did I ever know what to do? You know?

[Kate Moss]

And suddenly. Yeah, exactly. And something. I think it is like a. Or something. Like, for me, something just doesn't feel right. Like suddenly, like, the trousers aren't fitting like they were, or it doesn't hit the ankle. Like something like, it just feels weird in my skin. It just. It's like wearing a weird. Like, it's. I like putting on a different skin. And the skin does not feel like your own or something.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

No. I suppose it goes back to that thing of when you can feel a total, totally unconfident and you can get the clothes to do the job for you. You can follow behind it, and then it works for you. And then your confidence comes and you know that you have in your wardrobe these resources. I remember writing a poem. I tried to write this poem once,

[Kate Moss]

and I tried to write a poem.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Well, I Started and I was sitting for my dad. And then he wrote the whole thing and it was called Dress Sense. And it ended. In your wardrobe, hang your brains.

[Kate Moss]

Oh my God. Of course he fucking did. Clever bastard. That's so annoying. Oh my God. In your wardrobe, hang your brains. Cause he always had. I remember, like. But anyway, you know, like he had that same look all the time which was so major. Like that Kashmir, you know, that coat, the herringbone. What was it? The head princess. You know, that herringbone coat. And it was so. It looked like, you know, he'd had it forever. I don't know. But it was so luxurious, wasn't it? It was like something like the wool or something.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

It was like as though an animal had its coat on. It was just so soft.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah, it was so soft.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

And it put him together. I mean.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah. I mean, he could have been wearing like literally his pajamas. And you put that on and you're just like the chicest man in the room. Yeah, that's what I like. See, I do like that kind of dressing. Yeah. For a man, it's the best.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

A suit. Someone who knows.

[Kate Moss]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Exactly how to wear a suit is.

[Kate Moss]

We're done.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Yes. Thank you so much, Kate, for being on the show. Thank you.

[Kate Moss]

I can't wait for my evaluation.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

Well, it was so lovely to have you here and to hear your amazing thoughts and feelings. Thank you.

[Kate Moss]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (possibly fashion journalist or presenter)]

You're.

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