Loading summary
Transcript149 lines
- [00:00]
A
What's behind Ukraine's military shakeup?
- [00:04]
B
The Ukrainians have now surpassed the United States military and basically every other military
- [00:09]
A
on the planet in terms of doctrine for how to fight and integrate these autonomous systems on the battlefield. And we should be learning from them. I'm John Finer. And I'm Jake Sullivan. And we're the hosts of the Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week, we're breaking down the dismissal of Ukraine's defense minister, the architect of their drone strategy. The episode's out now. Search for and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:45]
C
Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Shania Twain.
- [00:55]
A
Thank you.
- [00:57]
C
Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes?
- [01:02]
A
Well, I'm wearing Dolce Gabbana and I'm feeling at home in my kind of lingerie, Dolce Gabbana clothes to start, but. And since I'm laying on your couch, it feels comfortable. But the truth is I go a long way back more with the leopard print in Dolce Gabbana, because when I first started making videos, I was, you know, they would bring in racks of designer clothing and for me to look through and choose. And I was always attracted to the leopard print. So over time, I ended up having a whole head to toe leopard print outfit, literally head to toe and indulged in the print. So today I'm not in the leopard print, but I am in the lingerie mode of Dolce and Gab.
- [02:02]
C
Yeah, they're very, very good at lingerie and this kind of Sophia Loren type of sexy underpinning, which I really like. And looks fantastic with the sheer.
- [02:19]
A
They have it down. And I love my layers. I love layers. I love the trench coats and the option to evolve with what you're wearing as well. Taking a coat off, doing it up over the shoulder, it's a lot of fun, I think as well, for stage performance or for videos. It's been a big thing at least for me to be able for the outfits to evolve throughout the story. And so it makes sense to have layers and accessories and that sort of thing. So here I am back in a trench coat, you know, nice trench coat, very stylish and beautiful. And this is all very comfortable. Like I said, this is the perfect. Of course you lounge around in this on a sofa at any given day.
- [03:16]
C
It's nice with a coat to be able to hide and reveal. I always like to feel I can disappear slightly and then if I feel safe, I can take something off. And this is a Very good ensemble, I must say.
- [03:32]
A
Thank you. Yeah, no, I love the layers.
- [03:37]
C
And you're a multi award winning singer, songwriter, musician of iconic status and you've sold over 100 million records and you hold the record for being the only female artist in history to have three consecutive albums of diamond certification. And you've said, I'm always looking for self improvement. And how do you differentiate between self improvement and self criticism?
- [04:07]
A
It's a good question. I see it more as not, you know, I'm always looking for self improvement in the sense that I will never know everything there is to know and I will never reach my full satisfaction. I'm never 1000% happy with what I do. I'm always striving for better because I know there's better. But the success part of it, the award part of it, the accolade element of it is not really something that I feel I have any control over anyway. So that's not anything that I strive to gain, but perfection in my own work. Yes. I will always strive for that. And there's just so much to know. There's so much. There's so many ways to do one thing and am I getting the one? Am I finding that one thing when I decide that a work is done? Have I really hit the mark? Is there more to explore? I think it's maybe an artist's suffering a little bit to have to decide when something is complete.
- [05:23]
C
Yeah.
- [05:24]
A
And that is partially because for me personally, I'm not self doubting. But I know there's other ways. I know this could just never end if I let it never end. You know, I would just carry on changing and doing various versions of things and that. I think that's an artist thing as well. We get stuck in that, you know, on that hamster wheel with the same subject and the same thinking and process and it's. And started to get off it.
- [06:06]
C
Yeah, it's true. I mean, self doubt is the enemy because suddenly I find it blurs. The thing of how can this be better? It's just this terrible kind of attack of fear. But
- [06:23]
A
it is, it is kind of an attack of fear. Maybe it is some sort of anxiety. I don't know. I don't have the answer. But it is definitely a separate thing from doing better. As far as gaining status or accolades, counting up the accolades. It's more of a personal thing just knowing that once you present a work, it's sort of closing the book on it. You're ending a story.
- [06:58]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [06:59]
A
And then how do you reopen that story. Like, I've even considered at some point releasing the 10 or 15 versions of one song that people don't real that, you know, might be interested or curious about the journey of that song and where it went over the course of its evolution. And then, you know, even I don't know if I would be able to describe why I ended up on the one version to share. But there is a journey for every song, for sure.
- [07:38]
C
Yeah. And I suppose the version that you choose is the ending of the self is like your conviction in the outcome. And that's what's very winning to your audience, that this is what you choose, you've chosen to believe in. Because at the beginning of your Netflix documentary, you start by saying you have to be fearless about being the leader of your own destiny. Aware, but fearless. And is being fearless still an essential part of your identity?
- [08:14]
A
Absolutely. The commitment to, you know, making decisions with conviction is so important. Otherwise, you just go forward in absolute fear. So, you know, get to know yourself, make a decision with conviction, and then commit. Commit to it. Commit to the decision. I suffered from stage fright a lot when I was. Well, for most of my life, in fact. And I really realized in my 50s, it came to me that this is really. It does take a lot of courage to get up there on stage in the spotlight, to commit to the way you're going to look, the way, you know, to commit to the production, to commit to the songs, to commit to the whole process and then get out there always, you know, sometimes to be admired and to be respected, but also to be criticized. So it. They come together, there's no way you ever walk away without being criticized. And so you have to. It takes courage to get out there and go, okay, this is my best foot forward right now, and I'm going to enjoy it for what it is and not let my fear, you know, get in the way, because. But anyway, that took me a long time. Fear got in the way for many, many, many years. And I realized I wasn't enjoying so much of what I was doing because of that.
- [10:07]
C
Yeah. So, yeah,
- [10:11]
A
it does take courage. I give myself credit for the courage that it takes, and then I commit and accept that commitment. Tomorrow's another day.
- [10:22]
C
Yeah. Because I'm really interested in that kind of paralyzing fear and how to kind of dismantle it. I mean, they talk about fight, flight, and freeze doesn't get such a mention. But freeze is my kind of area. That's my danger zone. Because I don't know if this happens to you. But I go into a kind of slow motion. I feel all my heart go into slow motion and I find that really scary. I think I'm more afraid of fear than of frightening situations. I.
- [11:01]
A
Interesting.
- [11:02]
C
Don't know if you.
- [11:04]
A
So you find it more crippling, more like it locks you down.
- [11:10]
C
Yeah. I suppose the. I would imagine for you when you are going to perform that you can't be. You can't be stopped. You have to move forward. And sometimes it feels like going through syrup. I mean, I. So I was imagining wondering how it was for you.
- [11:33]
A
The live performance element of it, when we're talking about, you know, stage fright, because it's. That obviously refers to the live stage, but it's. The clock is ticking down, everybody's waiting. There's so much anticipation and there's no going back. It's like every time I go on stage, it's like giving birth. It's not going back in. It's all going forward. So you have to just accept it. And there's no locking down. You have to go out there whether you pee yourself or not. Whatever happens is going to happen. That in itself is terrifying because there's so many unknowns. So you just have to jump off that cliff and. And then you're sink or swim. Yeah, Right. And it's really that unpredictable.
- [12:37]
C
Yeah.
- [12:38]
A
But like I said, you know, in not, you know, fairly recently, I've really realized that I don't know, I'm just not. I don't see it as a fear. It's more of a challenge that I have learned to manage and seeing it that way, it's more in my control.
- [13:11]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [13:12]
A
So the clock isn't. The clock is still ticking down, but I just don't. I mean, I have my own pre show prep that is very necessary to me and that is to be really quiet and not distracted and to be able to focus on what I'm about to do. It's really about preparing. So if I'm prepared, then I don't feel like I'm being thrown out to the sharks.
- [13:42]
C
Yeah. Yeah. I suppose it gives you that freedom to go wherever you need to, really, if you're prepared.
- [13:50]
A
Absolutely. Preparation is everything and I need it. I know that I need it. So I mentally prepare and everyone's got their pre show thing and I get it, but it isn't smart for me to just jump in. It doesn't work for me. So, yeah, it takes a bit of preparation. You know, if you're. Yeah. If you're gonna have A baby Lamaze is a good idea. You want to be ready if you can help it too, right?
- [14:27]
C
God. Because you've spoken about having very little money growing up and your mother waking you up at night and driving you to sing and play guitar in bars when you were eight to raise. Partly to raise money for family bills. But how did you deal with how difficult that was at such a young age? But also the pressure of how much your mother believed in your talent.
- [14:55]
A
That was a triple edged sword. Being a child with the love of music, I was obsessed with music. And it's all I wanted to do. I just wanted to write songs and create melodies and wordplay and just mold music. But I didn't want to do it in front of anybody else. It was my thing. It was my private, personal thing. And I didn't think that it was necessary to share it. But my mother was obsessed with my talent and. Or yeah, I mean, I didn't see it as a talent. You know, when you're four or five, six, you don't know what talent is. But for me, it was just my favorite play. But for her it was a talent and she wanted to nurture the talent. And as the adult realized that that would mean getting me exposure, getting me out in the public and sharing this music and learning how to be a performer. So. And then there was the money part of it. Where to go to these stages, these bars, as a child to perform took gas out of the car that my dad would need to get to work in the morning. So there was a constant battle between them. They fought a lot about it. And it was. That added a lot of stress to my own life. And then maybe they paid me 25 bucks or 50 bucks or they would send the hat around and collect a bit of money for me. And that would go into the car or into some grocery money. So it was not as if singing in the bar was my candy money or I was gonna be able to buy something for myself with it or, you know, there was no real joy in it singing in the bars. And it was smoky and it was full of mostly intoxicated men and women. And I had school the next morning. So I didn't love my early life as a performer, and it took me a while to appreciate that element of what I do, which is performance.
- [17:36]
C
And where did your mother's love of, you know, your voice and the music? Cause seems almost like was it ever a feeling of an unfulfilled thing that she wanted or. Cause she was so, you know, devoted to this thing, this sort of amazing talent of yours, and did it come from anywhere in her history?
- [18:06]
A
My mother herself was not musicals. She didn't, you know, she couldn't carry a tune, and she was a Jane smoker. And I don't think she would ever have. If she didn't have a musical child, I don't think that that would have been a path that she would have had an obsession with. But she recognized that I had musical talent, like singing, my ear, the harmonies. It was quite. I was quite advanced from my age, very young, and I think she saw it as a way out for me, for us. She saw that, you know, if my child can make it, and she really believed that I would like. She was very convinced then that would be the end of this cycle of. Financial challenge. And I mean, real challenges. Not being able to pay the hydro bill. So that means the heat gets turned off. You may not be able to cook. The fridge would go off. You wouldn't be able to do the laundry. Stuff, like, stuff that was critical to survival, especially in the winter, because we relied so much on freezing food in the winter, because we hunted and fished and froze all of that meat in the fall for the winter months, and that was free food. So if the freezer goes out because the electricity is shut off, then all that meat goes bad and spoils, and now you're in big trouble. So there were critical things that brought her to her, I would say, almost excitement of, wow, there's a chance that this cycle could end because I know my kids got it.
- [20:20]
C
Yeah.
- [20:21]
A
And now all I have to do is, you know, develop her and get her discovered. All I have to do. But this took, you know, we were nowhere close to ever being discovered. We were living in the sticks in Northern Ontario, Canada, and Nashville was, you know, days of driving and. And there was no chance I was ever getting discovered where I was in Timmins as a child. But my mother's dream was that I would become the next Tanya Tucker, who was a child star in Canada, all over the world. Well, maybe not so much in Europe, but certainly as to my little Canadian self. She was a giant star everywhere. And so my mother had a very specific goal. She had a lot of clarity about that. She knew that I had to get out publicly singing. And where do you take a kid public singing when you're in a town of 40,000 people and there are no stages where you get discovered by anybody that's gonna give you a record deal? So it's the bars, and that's where I Went.
- [21:46]
C
God, it's incredible actually to imagine her, the intention of all the adversity that she kind of went through to put you on that bar when you were eight. I mean, it's really, I feel it
- [22:07]
A
was also a saving. It was something that saved her as well. I should add that because it was something for her to get up out of bed for. And you know, when you can't feed your kids and you don't know where they are half the time and you haven't gotten out of bed in days and you know, it's, you know, she was, she would rather smoke cigarettes than eat.
- [22:40]
C
Yeah.
- [22:40]
A
And so she lived on exporting cigarettes and instant coffee and canned carnation milk. And that was her diet for days sometimes. And we, when we had, you know, when we didn't have any food and so we would eat the little bits that we had. And sometimes I just don't even think she had the energy to get out of bed. But when it came to the music, she just came to life. And I felt an obligation to give her that as well. So even at times when I really did not want to go to the bar at midnight in that environment, I did it for her. I mean, it was her lifeline in a way. It was her hope. So a lot of my early years on stage were out of obligation.
- [23:40]
B
Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today@odoo.com Vox that's O-O-O.com Vox
- [24:16]
D
Wow, I'm so glad I took calculus in high school and not personal finance. Said nobody. Ever figuring it all out for yourself when you're fresh out of school can not only be daunting, it's it can literally cost you. I'm Vivian Tu, your rich bff. And on this episode of Net Worth and Chill, we're rewinding a decade to when I was first out of college and learning to care for my own finances the hard way, with plenty of slip ups and face plants. But since I already made those mistakes, I get to share them with you so you don't have to. If you want to swerve all of the potholes I fell into. Give the episode a listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com
- [24:52]
C
YourRichVFF because your father, Jerry, who was actually your stepfather and adopted you and your two siblings. He was very violent and abusive and also sexually abused you. And you say he was also a kind and caring man, which sounds incredibly confusing. And how did those two aspects of him show up in his behavior?
- [25:21]
A
It is very confusing. But when you're a child and you're, you know, from the beginning, that as far as you can remember, and you've got a dad that is really trying hard to, like, feed you and, you know, would do everything he could to provide for the family, and he would take us hunting and he would, you know, he was genuine about all of that. And he had, you know, he was 22 when. When he became a father to us. And then we ended up five. Five of us. This was. I mean, even as a kid, I'm thinking this is a huge burden. And I was even thinking, I don't know how my parents were ever going to do this. We're never going to make it through. You know, how are we going to eat? How are we going to stay together? How is social services not going to come and, like, pull us all apart? So I really appreciated and respected him for really doing his best to keep it together, to keep us all together. So the confusing part came in, of course, with the violence and the violations and all of those things. It was weird. And I didn't. You kind of go into this denial that it's two different people, and, you know, he doesn't. The dad that loves us and is doing everything he can to save us and feed us is. You know, he means all of that. He really means all of that, and he's sincere in it. And of course. Of course you believe that. And I still believe that. I just. I think people that have their own mental challenges are not all bad. And that might. It sounds. Maybe that it does sound a bit odd, but to me, this was a good person who had his own mental challenges.
- [27:37]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:38]
A
That's the way I look at it. And I'm not excusing it. I think it's wrong to look at it that way. I'm not finding excuses for the abusive person. I do think the abusive person is guilty of abusing. But this was a loving man that cared about us and wanted us to thrive in life and did his best, but had his own mental issues. That's the Way I saw it, I felt. Even as a child, I felt empathy, and I recognized that something wasn't right and that it was struggling with that.
- [28:18]
C
Yeah, that's remarkable. I mean, because watching videos of you singing when you're 11 and your voice is so full of emotional experience, and later you said, I'm always looking for the light. And who did you learn that from?
- [28:37]
A
I think this is an innate thing that I feel very lucky to have because I force myself to see the positive. I wouldn't have survived otherwise, or I would have been really. I would never, I don't think, be where I am today. I would have maybe likely gone off on the wrong path myself or not found my way. I was very adamant about looking for solutions, believing that there was always a way that you just have to keep looking for it and not to ever buckle to your grief. And, you know, because when you're a kid and you're. You know, I had so much of. I think what I went through was just grief, sadness and worry, concern. But I was always able. And, you know, music gave this to me as well. Music was also part of that gift, and I think it's part of why I developed it, because I was so obsessed with that little savior, and I clung to that savior. I clung to music. And it took me out of my sadness, took me out of my grief. It took me anywhere I wanted to go. I wrote lyrics that were about people I'd never met or that I even. I didn't even know existed. I was completely using my imagination, and I was escaping in that. It was great escapism. So the light was really my imagination, maybe is a better way to put it.
- [30:40]
C
God, I mean, it's hard to ask you about all these painful things, though you've talked about them before, and many other people have experienced similar things. And when you were 13, you packed up your car and put your siblings in and persuaded your mother to get in and drive to Toronto to a refuge. And when she agreed, did it hit you that actually it was as bad as you saw it and as you knew it to be, that she'd actually agreed to an escape plan hatched by her teenage daughter?
- [31:18]
A
This is. It is craziness, thinking back on it, but. But any younger than 13, I didn't feel. I felt like I could control my own escapism, that I had the power to escape in my mind, but I didn't have the power to physically escape. That would mean running away. And if I ran away as a juvenile, then I would be put in a home or foster care. And then the house would have been investigated, we would have been separated. I don't know what would have happened. But I was living at the same time with the fear that are my parents going to beat each other to death during the night? Is one of them going to wake up dead? Are we. You know, it was grave. There were a lot of grave moments, really dark ones. And so at the age of 13, I felt this was a pivotal point in my mother's sort of respect for my maturity. And she depended on me in that moment. And I took that opportunity of her dependence and her weakness. She wasn't getting out of bed for days. And I planned it out. It was premeditated. I knew my dad was going to be out of town till a certain time and didn't bother bringing her cigarettes or coffee till everyone was already in the car. The kids. My mother's grandfather clock, because it's the only thing she really would have not been able to part with from her mother. It's quite vivid still to me now because the grandfather clock, my mom, it was my mother's, my grandmother's clock, it was as big as one of the kids. So it had to lay across our laps on this 13 hour drive to Toronto. But we could not leave without it. I knew that my mother would never. She would have been so angry with me if we had left without that clock. Her mother was just everything to her. And also the crucifix, my grandmother's crucifix that always hung up above the door. My grandmother was Irish, so these two things would have come from Ireland and a long, long journey to Canada. So my mother, they were in her care and she wanted, you know, she would have wanted them with us.
- [34:12]
C
Yeah.
- [34:12]
A
But to me, I'm thinking, okay, I'll do it for her. But this is our great escape right now. So whatever it takes to get her to drive this car. Cause I'm 13 and I don't have a driver's license. So we make this escape at the point where I really thought one of us is gonna die in this house. And we get to Toronto, the only we. I don't even know what to do now, but I just knew that let's just get to the city where there are, there's more support. And I went to a phone booth, looked, just looked anything up at the yellow pages that had to do with abused, abuse and found a couple of numbers, called them up and they didn't take me seriously because I have a child's voice. And so I said, mom, you're gonna have to come on the phone because they're not gonna listen to what I'm saying. And so she did. And she explained that we were lost in the city and we needed shelter and that she had four kids with her. Actually, there were only three of us. Cause no, there were four of us. That's right. My older sister was already gone.
- [35:57]
C
Yeah.
- [35:57]
A
Four little kids and nowhere to go. And a grandfather clock. So my God, they guided us there. Yeah. And you know, that wasn't fun either. I mean, it's not like you want to live in a shelter. No, it wasn't fun.
- [36:12]
C
But God, I mean, seems almost perverse to ask you about clothes, but they are part of what does make life bearable under such extreme circumstances. And I wondered what was the first piece of clothing that you longed for as a child?
- [36:33]
A
New shoes. New shoes. Because we. I always got hand me down shoes, which is fine. I mean, you know, I had an older sister, some older. Older cousins. It was an essential where we lived because of our seasons, but. And school required it. But of course I could wear secondhand shoes. But in my mind I'm dreaming of a new pair of shoes that I actually go in the store and try on, you know, and so that. That was just one of those little things. And especially in winter, because boots are critical to prevent frostbite where I'm from, you can't wait for the bus where I'm from in 40 below Celsius without the right boots.
- [37:33]
C
Yeah.
- [37:35]
A
So that was. And whenever you use secondhand boots, they're never warm as warm because all the padding and the insulation is older. So you never get the warmer boots when you get secondhand boots.
- [37:50]
C
Gosh. Because then when you were 22, your parents were killed in a car crash and you moved back to look after your siblings and to make sure they weren't separated by social services and stuff. And you said I wasn't ready for all the things that happened to me. My innocence died early. How easy do you find it to get close to someone?
- [38:18]
A
I find it easy to get close to people I don't. I love people and I don't need to be around a lot of people I do love. And I'm very good at one on one connections. But it's more life that I don't trust. I never know what's around the corner. None of us do. But I think the worst sometimes. So I'm thinking, okay. I'm always in a little bit of a survival mode, I guess. Is my point. So not with my relations, my relationships, but more with. Practical things. Will there be money tomorrow? Will there be food tomorrow? There's always a little worry about, you know, the worst, is the worst going to happen next. And so that's really more about not being able to rely on my parents as much as I should have been able to. They were not always able to provide even though they wanted to. You know, I didn't have parents that didn't care, but they just couldn't always provide. So that was unreliable. And that made me very independent. I knew that I had to get to work super early in my life and bring money in and work for the family, which was maybe normal in my grandparents day. More so in those times, but not in my time as a kid. Everybody else in my class was not worried about where the lunch was coming from and when, you know, when or if they had the right booths for winter. I didn't have any other friends that had those anxieties actually.
- [40:24]
C
Because you're an amazing performer and yet there's also a shyness to you. And when you're interviewed, sometimes the things I've been watching, it's almost like you throw at an alter ego first like a lasso and then you follow on afterwards. And I wondered, how much of an introvert do you think you are?
- [40:44]
A
I'm very introverted, naturally. That was very good of you to spot that. No, I am very introverted, but I force myself out there. So this has been something that my mother did gift me with by forcing me out on that stage. When I was a child that did not want to be in the spotlight, I always reset by isolating myself. I love it. I love being alone and I love being alone with my horses and I love, you know, and that's. I also do love the one on one relationships. I can stay, you know, and I've done it. I mean, I can stay in my little cabin for weeks on end and just be perfectly fine. I don't need a lot of interaction. Which I did retreat a lot in my youth. You know, I'm not really. I think I do know a lot of it was innate. I was naturally shy and I didn't want to be on the stage. But I also avoided just the overwhelming element of being around a lot of people.
- [42:09]
C
Yeah.
- [42:10]
A
And you know, having to socialize with a lot of people. So music again was a really great retreat. Something I could do on my own. Perfectly fine. Entertaining myself with my guitar if I didn't have any other friends. That was okay. But it also made me develop slower as a woman. And I was very shy. I never went to the beach with a bathing suit. I never. So I never swam. I was very shy about showing any skin. And so, you know, every once in a while I would wear shorts, and that would be me going, come on, you know, snap out of this. This is ridiculous. It's, you know, 85 degrees out, or, you know, I always go back from Fahrenheit and Celsius, but it was, you know, 30 degrees and I'm dying in my jeans. Put some shorts on. Be a normal person. You're a teenager. But it was difficult for me. And only when I made my first video did I realize that, wow, there is another way to slip into my own skin. As a female who has curves, who is so tired of wearing two bras so that I don't bounce when I walk, I'm going to just take this freedom and run with it. It was this great escape making this first video. And I didn't wear a bra. And I did all the opposite things to what I would normally do as a person in my life. It was as if nobody was gonna see me behind the camera.
- [44:04]
C
Yeah.
- [44:05]
A
And I could just actually be a normal voluptuous girl. And I did. And it was super fun. And that was when I just realized that clothing was. Could be so complimentary because, you know, through high school, I wore mostly guys clothes and baseball sweatsuits and stuff like that. And I wore two bras to flatten myself out and to not bounce because I loved sports.
- [44:44]
C
Because your stage outfits are a huge part of the identity you create as a performer. And the look you pioneered in Man, I Feel Like a Woman is. I mean, it must have been recreated by millions of people in their bedrooms, sort of. It's so full of joy and it's so much fun. And Harry Styles cites you as an influence and you're supporting him as a special guest in his upcoming shows at Wembley. And how do you find the balance of extremely sexy and tomboy? Cause there's a defiance in the way you dress that's really fun to see.
- [45:26]
A
Man, I feel like a woman. The song itself was written as a statement, very deliberate statement that I. Because by this time now, I'm already well into several videos. I'm exploring fashion. I'm really paying attention to silhouettes, the. The lighting, the fabrics, the textures of the fabrics, how they move, how they flow, are they transparent, what colors they are? Now I'm entering a whole new world of joy, of being a Woman and that so many men, they could, but it would take a lot more courage to do as a man. And I'm so glad that Harry Styles does it. But, but women just have more opportunity to have fun with clothing and self express through their clothing. And I took advantage of that fully. And I'm saying, man, I feel like a woman and damn, I'm gonna dress like the woman I feel I am. And so that is a woman that is embracing her curves. And I do remember in an earlier video I was, I didn't like, I was, I was going more braless, but I didn't really want to bounce. I still didn't want to bounce. So I was very careful about my movements and, and someone on the set said, you've got them girl, show em, you know, enjoy them. And I'm thinking, yeah, but why would I wanna show? I'm not trying to actually show off. I'm just trying to, you know, they were like, flaunt it. You have it, flaunt it. And I thought, well, it's not really my mindset. I don't really, I didn't really wanna flaunt it. I just wanted to be myself and be natural. Like, you know, this is my body and so why shouldn't I wear things that flatter it and that I enjoy wearing that make me enjoy my body instead of not wanting my body?
- [47:45]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:46]
A
Because as a tomboy, I didn't want this body. I wanted, I did not want a girl's body. I felt like I was cursed because men would look at me longer than they should and it was so many awkward moments in being a voluptuous girl. Um, so I res, I resisted it until I started making videos. And then, man, I feel like a woman was. That was, oh, now I'm like, oh, you know, this is way too much fun. Like you can actually tailor things to your body shape. Like this was blowing my mind because I didn't, you know, I didn't know anything about couture clothing, anything about custom tailoring as a young woman. So it was all very new to me and I was exploring it and indulging in it and really, really appreciating it and what it could do for a person and their self expression.
- [48:54]
C
Yeah. So interesting because in a way, hiding makes you feel more self conscious, but just playing and wearing things just as you've described is suddenly unselfconscious and the opposite of what you think. Like I can't be seen, suddenly feels free and you can forget about your body or you Always think that's the purpose of clothes when they really work for you, is to liberate you from self consciousness. And then you can use all your imagination. You can be free and do daring things and not worry about showing something. And I love that you enjoy showing your midriff, as you call it. I mean, you have this amazing waist. And it's the bit of my body that I'm always the most terrified of anybody seeing. It's like for some reason. But I wondered whose look inspired you? When you start to develop your own look and do you have a fashion icon first?
- [50:05]
A
I want to say that the clothing that I was discovering through the fashion was liberating me in the sense that I. I wasn't trying to hide my body anymore, but I wasn't trying to show it off either. I had intentions of creating the way I wanted to look, not hide, but the way I wanted to look, the way I wanted to be seen. So there's a manageability in that and there's a safety in that. You can, you know, you can show off if you want, or it can be perceived as showing off, or you. Or it's whatever you want. That's what I love about it. And it's a creative process. And my idols in fashion, My first one, I would have to say, is Dolly Parton, because she was fearless.
- [51:16]
B
And
- [51:19]
A
I had such a great sense of humor about how. In her responses to criticism of the way she dressed, because, you know, you can't. You can be admired, but you will be criticized at the same time. They go together. And her sense of humor about it all was just so infectious. And I learned from that positivity and I was drawn to it anyway, I thought, well, isn't that a great solution to criticism, you know, yeah, finding the humor in everything. And so I admired the way she flattered her body and I admired the
- [52:05]
C
way she
- [52:07]
A
was fearless about it. She was definitely, you know, bosom forward.
- [52:13]
C
Yes.
- [52:13]
A
And that was her. And she loved that about herself. And she indulged in that and enjoyed it. So all of her clothing enhanced that.
- [52:31]
C
Yeah.
- [52:32]
A
And so she was the corset queen before Madonna, you know, and then I would say Madonna was another one of my fashion icons because even though a completely different body type, she had a glamour and an edge that
- [52:58]
B
no one
- [52:58]
A
I've ever known has married together so well. So I really thought that she was brilliant with, you know, with fashion, with understanding her body and what she enjoyed accentuating because she was a dancer. So she was also thinking, what can I Move in.
- [53:21]
C
Yeah.
- [53:22]
A
And what's practical, but still strong in its statement. So, you know, she, I think, brought a lot of fashion to dance, too, in doing that, because it was. Dancers have to move, they have to sweat, things have to be well put together, but they still have to be aesthetic. So I admire that. I think aesthetics is important and practicality, so you have to have both. I'm not sure Dolly's. I remember talking to Dolly once. I'm not sure she was worried about practicality at all. And that was part of her human. Because she was always saying her dress would weigh so much. Right. Because always lots of embellishment and beads and. And then. And then her heels were so incredibly high. How those shoes carry all of that, the weight of those dresses, and just everything about everything about her from head to toe, was not practical for a performer. And even her nails, she detuned her guitar, and she's such a great guitarist. She detuned her guitar in order to keep her nails to play. Oh, that's so great, what she did for fashion. How can you not be impressed with that as a musician?
- [54:57]
C
That's genius, isn't it?
- [54:59]
A
Genius. So I'm thinking, of course, she's one of my fashion icons. Like, she was not compromising her whole look for anything. And so I really admired that. I'm more practical. I have to.
- [55:13]
D
I.
- [55:14]
A
There's only one Dolly Parton. Only Dolly could do that. But. So, yeah, I like to find a balance somewhere in between things that I can function in but still feel like a woman. Like the woman that I want to look like.
- [55:31]
C
Yeah. It's so interesting about Dolly Parton and Madonna because their intelligence is what. I suppose when you were talking about practicality, I was thinking, she's so clever, and she comes up with all these solutions to this impression, this kind of, you know, how she wants to dazzle everybody. And Madonna, too, you know, they're both so witty and fascinating and gosh, I love the detuning. That's just so cool.
- [56:06]
A
Isn't that brilliant? Yeah. And I think that creative people like Madonna, like Dolly, they're completely different artists altogether. But, like, we all are. You know, hopefully we're all unique. Right. That would always be my goal and my intention. But we're entertainers as well, so we're not just the artists behind the scenes creating our images and our stories through music. We're also creating the stories and continuing the stories visually.
- [56:48]
C
Yeah.
- [56:49]
A
So it's a more complete artist doing that, who's seeing the whole vision from top to Bottom. And that's both Madonna and. And Dolly Parton. And so I admire them both, and they're just so different. But I guess it's the same qualities in them both that I admire and that I, you know, that I respect and try to uphold, you know, myself and have fun with it at the same time, which I know they both do.
- [57:17]
C
Yeah, looks like it. Because you were in a marriage that was also a creative partnership, and you both practiced the spiritual philosophy of Saint Mat, and did that give you tools to deal with some of your childhood trauma?
- [57:40]
A
For me, spirituality has always been a meditative experience. And since I was a very young child, I've been very much a meditative person. And there is, in many spiritual paths. On many spiritual paths, reference to sound. And this is a reverberation, or you would say a resonance. And when I was three years old, I was playing with resonance in my mouth and in my chest. So it's a science, but I just believe that there's no gap between science and spirituality. And when they come together innately like that, like in a child where I'm just humming Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in my lips. And when I would successfully manage for my tongue and my lips to tickle in that reverberation, then I knew I was getting it right. Don't ask me what I knew I was getting right, but I knew that I'd arrived at something that was really in me and natural, and it was like hitting a target. And so later in life, as I discovered other. Just friends, family, people along the way, other journeys and concepts of spiritualism and all of those sorts of things. And in the end, I realized there's really only one spiritual path, and it's in you.
- [59:57]
C
Yeah.
- [59:57]
A
So. And it took me right back to that first full circle, playing with resonance.
- [60:06]
C
Wow, that's so interesting.
- [60:08]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's all we're trying to do in meditation.
- [60:12]
C
Exactly.
- [60:13]
A
Is find that target, that. That's that place that is nothing but everything. And it's a. It's a. It's harder to explain it even as. As an adult with maturity and experience than it was to achieve it as a child in my larynx.
- [60:38]
C
God. It's such an interesting idea that you developed the thing that was your survival means, and then how you've come to understand it later through practicing this spiritual, you know, using this spiritual practice.
- [60:57]
A
Well, you know, the older we get, the more we intellectualize, we develop our intellectual. And then we end up like I'm doing right now, trying to explain that experience. As a child, that was just natural. And at the time, I had no idea that I would even ever need that or that it meant anything, that it was even a thing. Yeah, it was just my little thing that I would achieve by accident by just playing around with sound and internal sound, though, not expressing it. And the irony of that is there's some part of me that thinks I was always meant to never really express that resonance, that it was always really just meant for me. But because I did have to go through all that stage right, it was so difficult. Not the songwriting. The creative part was still always just within me. I never needed. I never felt I needed to share it. But my mother, her plan was different. And so, you know, and that by facing that all the time from so young and then all the way through to when it would become my living, and then the living of taking care of the kids after my parents died, I just felt like I never had. It was just always meant to be. It was never going to let me go. I was just meant to be the performer as well, and that I would just have to find ways to manage it. Manage meaning the. I don't even know. I didn't even know if it. I think it developed into a fear, but I think it was really more just going against what was natural for me. My real natural self wasn't a spotlight person.
- [63:11]
C
Because I read that you sometimes take your horse on tour with you, and I've read about equine therapy, and I wondered if the horse is almost like re. Establishing trust in relationships.
- [63:25]
A
The horse is absolutely. The therapy with a horse is a real thing.
- [63:31]
C
Yeah.
- [63:31]
A
I. When I first heard about it as a. As a. An actual therapy, an official therapy, I thought, well, if you like horses, just go be with horses. And then you'll realize that it's. You're, you know, then you'll. You know, obviously you'll make a connection because horses just do do that for people. But, yeah, if you don't know horses and you have no desire to be around a horse or if you're even afraid of horses, but you do need some sort of emotional therapy or mental therapy. Of course it works. It works maybe even better because it's foreign and you're being introduced to something that is a new way of looking at life and a new way of observing things. And therapy does that for us. It says maybe you might want to look at it upside down or maybe you need to look at it sideways. You need another point of view. So for me, it just made sense that being with horses was therapeutic.
- [64:52]
C
That's a great idea.
- [64:54]
D
Right?
- [64:54]
A
But, wow, this really can work for everyone. But from my own experience, the horse, the time with a horse, I can promise you my time with horses is not so necessary. And I will go out in the middle of the night and I will sit with them in the field or in the stall and just be with them. And I'll fall asleep sometimes there. My husband will come looking for me at three in the morning and he'll know where to find me. I just can't tell you. I mean, they can step on you when you're sitting down in their stall. They can hurt you very easily. They can bite you, they can kick you. But if you're in their frame of, I guess, emotion, they will just love you. And it's just so gorgeous
- [66:02]
C
because you have really cool hair. It's so luscious and wild and natural, however done it is. And your husband Frederick has pretty amazing hair, too, and so does your horse. And I wondered, is hair something you're attracted to?
- [66:20]
A
I'm definitely a hair person. You know, one of my favorite supermodels was Cindy Crawford, because I just thought her hair was so spectacular. I mean, she was beautiful anyway. She is beautiful. But I just always felt that hair. I've always had a thing for hair. And I, from a very young age, I was always cutting my own hair. So my first videos. I'm the stylist of my hair. Good, for better or for worse. But I cut my own hair, cut all my family's hair, cousins, uncles, everyone's hair. I love hair. I like to work with hair. So that was just natural. I was always going to find hair an aesthetic extension of people's looks. And it makes such a dramatic change in the way you even look at yourself.
- [67:25]
C
Yeah, it's so true.
- [67:28]
A
Definitely. It's like, is this a pull my hair back moment? It's kind of like a rolling your sleeves, that moment. Is this a, you know, get my hands dirty moment or. It's the same for hair. I see it the same way. It's like, what kind of hair moment is this? It needs thought.
- [67:46]
C
Yeah, yeah. Because I. When I was looking at your hairstyles, I thought of Cindy Crawford because that she's just got. The way it moves is like how yours moves and it just behaves in this. It's got this credible kind of beautiful energy to it and. Yeah.
- [68:04]
A
Thank you. No, I love hair. I'm always looking at people's hair. Yeah, I look at people's hair before I look at their shoes.
- [68:12]
C
So if you fancy someone and you don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?
- [68:18]
A
No, because I have faith that no, but I have faith that maybe it's just not their best clothing day or because I have those too. Sometimes I just want to be in my pajamas and you know, I ride my horses in my pajamas. I'm sure it doesn't look glorious, but I just go with it. Now if I was meeting a man that I stumbled upon while I was in my pajamas riding my horse, I wouldn't want him to judge me for that. Right? So I guess I would give somebody the same forgiveness. We can't always look our best and there's always opportunity to look better.
- [69:14]
C
I bet you'd look adorable though, riding your horse in your pajamas. So it's very different from having those kind of switch off moments. But it sounds like, I mean, some people do and then other people just don't. And this.
- [69:31]
A
Good point. Don't you ever wonder, okay, I've had so many dreams about what Dolly Parton wears when she is not on. Is it really. That is the strangest thing to say. But what does Dolly Parton wear when she's not being Dolly Parton? I mean, I know she's always Dolly Parton, but she must wear frumpy pajamas.
- [70:02]
B
2.
- [70:04]
A
But anyway, that's for Dolly.
- [70:05]
C
So you literally have dreams about what Dolly might be wearing?
- [70:11]
A
Yes. That's fascinating. I want to know. I have such curiosity.
- [70:14]
C
Yes.
- [70:15]
A
To me, Dolly Parton is the most mysterious, brilliant person in entertainment. And there's so many, so much depth to everything about her and the way she's rolled with all of the punches because she's been committed to that is also part of her. Maybe not like brilliant is not maybe the right word for that part because I think that that's just her being an exceptional. Of exceptional character.
- [70:53]
C
Yeah, right. Have you ever listened to that podcast called My Dolly Parton? I think it's called Dolly Parton America. And it's. If you haven't heard it, it's the most brilliant, fascinating and sort of story and interviews with her and how. And you're right, I think she is brilliant because I mean her kind of forensic assessment of what's right or wrong for her and her confidence and her also her unbelievable humility that comes through so just. She's like a God. I mean, I learned so much about how to practice values from listening to the things she said. It's amazing.
- [71:45]
A
She puts love first and, and love and forgiveness first. Always. And so if that's your go to. It's really not that complicated in the end to say, well, I'm walking through life as my committed self, committed to my own unique self. And I'm not gonna. You know, she can't be broken down by anything. I don't think because she believes so much in love and forgiveness that it's. It just. It all. It cancels out the negativity.
- [72:32]
C
Yeah. And also it doesn't come with a sort of obligatory self sacrifice. You can. She still is very clear about what she wants. And
- [72:43]
A
yeah. She expects others to take responsibility for their own opinion of her. She doesn't take responsibility for their opinion of her. She expects them to take their own responsibility for it. To me, that's everything that is. You know, our kids need to learn that so much younger. They'd be so much happier with themselves, you know, if they had that. The Dolly Parton wisdom.
- [73:15]
C
Yes.
- [73:16]
A
Yeah.
- [73:16]
C
And your new album is called Little Miss Twain and you revisit some of your early childhood experiences. And some of the song and the chorus of Little Miss Twain is, according to my mother, I'm the next Tanya Taka, which you mentioned. I'm going to be a star. And you hail from the world of country music, but you seem so free spirited with the charge of. You have all the charge of a rock star. And does that feel like fun?
- [73:51]
A
I've been through so many genres in my development as an artist way before I got my recording contract. So the Little Miss Twain album is really the gap from when I started as a very young child as a singer, as Little Miss Twain, which is how I was introduced on stage when I was a child.
- [74:18]
C
Gosh.
- [74:18]
A
To when I got my recording contract. So that whole. There's a whole missing awareness in my story as an artist of how I became Shania Twain from Little Miss Twain. So Shania Twain became a recording artist. At the time I was signed, but pre signing, we're talking 27 and under, I was already in my late 20s. So all of that life had been lived already.
- [74:54]
C
Yeah.
- [74:54]
A
As Little Miss Twain. So the earliest part was country music. And then it went into folk. Well, a. More like contemporary country music. That would have been Glen Campbell, even early Bee Gees and, you know, moving into then folk of the Joni Mitchell time and then became more rock because the late 70s was now getting into more rock with, well, even, I mean, Supertramp and all of those big band sounds were a big part of my teens and I was doing that stuff on stage. So by the time I got my recording contract, I was already a hybrid of the rooted early years of country music and then everything in between. So I feel like a. I think in my soul I'm a country folk artist. The same way I see Dolly Parton because she wrote all these great folk songs that were just great stories, honest storytelling. Like a song like I Will Always Love youe, that was one of her really early just guitar vocal songs
- [76:34]
D
that
- [76:34]
A
became this giant pop hit by Whitney Houston. So was it a pop song or was it a country song? I would say it was a folk song. It was a story that came from the heart and that translates all and transcends all genres. So I kind of think that I'm a folk songwriter at heart. That makes a lot of sounds. That bridge from country and western, that was my grandparents country all the way to, you know, rock and roll.
- [77:13]
C
Well, thank you so much, Shania Twain, for being on Fashion Neurosis. It's just been wonderful to listen and talk to you and see you there. And I love your new album. It's incredible. Thank you so much for being here.
- [77:29]
A
Thank you. That means a lot to me. Little Miss Twain is my mother's dream come true. Only many years later.
- [77:40]
C
Yeah, it's really something.
- [77:43]
A
Thank you.
- [78:02]
B
Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today at Odoo. Com vox. That's o d o o.com Vox.