15 Years of Designer Musical Chairs

Summary

Fashion People Podcast Summary Episode Title: 15 Years of Designer Musical Chairs
Release Date: December 24, 2024
Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Leah Chernikov, Executive Editor of Harper's Bazaar

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Fashion People, host Lauren Sherman welcomes Leah Chernikov, the Executive Editor of Harper's Bazaar. Together, they delve into a variety of pivotal topics shaping the fashion industry over the past 15 years, exploring designer transitions, major business moves, and intriguing controversies.

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Calvin Klein's Return to the Runway

Lauren Sherman opens the discussion by highlighting Calvin Klein's upcoming showcase at Fashion Week in February. This marks a significant comeback for the iconic brand under new designer Veronica Leone.

• Lauren Sherman [17:36]: "I looked at the past, present, and future of Calvin Klein, which is returning to the Runway in February, and it'll be a really fun story to track."

Leah shares her excitement about the brand's resurgence and reflects on Calvin Klein's historical impact on fashion.

• Leah Chernikov [26:05]: "Calvin Klein is such an important brand, and I'm excited to see it come back again."

They analyze Calvin Klein's strategic moves under CEO Stefan Larson, emphasizing his deliberate approach to revitalizing the brand without hastily chasing trends.

• Lauren Sherman [31:46]: "Stefan has been very careful about making changes. He hired an executive from Zara to be the president of the Calvin brand, slowly getting the marketing back on track."

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Nordstrom's Bid to Go Private

Another major topic is Nordstrom's recent bid to take the company private, a move that signifies the challenges faced by traditional department stores in a changing retail landscape.

• Lauren Sherman [45:08]: "Nordstrom's attempt to go private shows that this is a declining business. Department stores will always exist, but they'll continue to get smaller."

Leah provides insights into Nordstrom's dedication to customer experience and the implications of the bid, highlighting the financial pressures and strategic decisions involved.

• Leah Chernikov [49:25]: "Nordstrom feels like a whole world. The men's store even has a little bar, making the shopping experience unique and enjoyable."

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Carolyn Bessette Kennedy Auction at Sotheby's

The episode covers the high-profile auction of Carolyn Bessette Kennedy's wardrobe at Sotheby's, shedding light on the enduring legacy of her style and its influence on contemporary fashion.

• Lauren Sherman [16:22]: "Sarah Stoddinger bought all three lots from the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy Auction, spending a total of $177,600 on iconic pieces like a vintage leopard coat and a Yoji Yamamoto jacket."

Leah discusses Carolyn Bessette's role as a fashion mood board and her lasting impact on designers.

• Leah Chernikov [20:46]: "Carolyn Bessette is the mood board for many influential designers. Her style continues to drive inspiration in the fashion industry."

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Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni Controversy

A controversial segment addresses allegations against Justin Baldoni, including claims of sexual harassment and creating a smear campaign against Blake Lively. Lauren emphasizes the seriousness of the allegations while acknowledging that nothing has been proven.

• Lauren Sherman [02:34]: "Actresses are suing Baldoni, alleging he sexually harassed them and created a smear campaign. These are just allegations, but the evidence is quite convincing."

Leah offers her perspective on the potential impact of the controversy on personal brands and product lines associated with the involved parties.

• Leah Chernikov [25:15]: "These allegations are terrible and could have significant repercussions on public sentiment and associated brands."

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Shopping Experiences and Favorite Stores

The conversation shifts to personal shopping experiences, with Lauren and Leah sharing their favorite stores and tips for finding the perfect attire.

• Leah Chernikov [49:59]: "I love Nordstrom for its well-laid-out stores and the unique little bar in the men's section. It's a great shopping experience."

• Lauren Sherman [52:43]: "I shop at La Garcon when I'm in New York. Even though the customer service isn't always great, the selection is amazing."

They also discuss the evolving nature of vintage shopping in Los Angeles and New York, recommending stores like Scout and La Garcon for their curated selections.

• Lauren Sherman [08:02]: "Scout in LA is an amazing vintage store with everything under $300, including Plantation and Japanese designers from the '80s."

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The Battle of the Panettone

In a lighthearted segment, Lauren introduces the "Battle of the Panettone," comparing different luxury brands' versions of the classic Italian dessert. This has sparked a fun debate among listeners about their favorite panettone offerings.

• Lauren Sherman [56:16]: "Gucci has really gone strong with their panettone, thanks to the Gucci Cafe. Etro and Prada have also entered the fray, each bringing their unique flavors to the table."

Leah shares her preferences and the responses they've received from their audience regarding the best panettone.

• Leah Chernikov [56:50]: "Dolce & Gabbana's panettone is the best, according to Carrie Diamond from Cherry Bomb."

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Designer Musical Chairs: A Legacy of Change

Reflecting on the episode's title, Lauren and Leah discuss the concept of "designer musical chairs," referring to the frequent changes in creative directors within major fashion houses over the past 15 years. They examine how these shifts impact brand identity and market positioning.

• Lauren Sherman [36:56]: "We've been covering designer musical chairs since 2010, and it's fascinating to see how these changes shape the fashion landscape."

• Leah Chernikov [41:45]: "Chanel’s recent appointment is particularly consequential. They've chosen someone with a strong vision focused on craftsmanship over image, which could redefine their creative direction."

They analyze how these leadership changes reflect broader trends in the industry, such as the balance between maintaining brand heritage and innovating for the future.

• Lauren Sherman [42:56]: "Veronica Leone’s role as Artistic Director of Fashion Creations is intriguing. It suggests a focus on specific aspects of the brand, similar to how Hermes manages different creative elements."

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Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Lauren and Leah exchange holiday greetings and reflect on their longstanding friendship and professional collaboration. They share personal anecdotes about their shopping habits and upcoming plans, adding a warm and relatable touch to the episode.

• Lauren Sherman [64:58]: "Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas! Thanks for being here, Leah."

• Leah Chernikov [64:58]: "Happy holidays, Lauren. It was a dream conversation as always."

---

Notable Quotes

• Lauren Sherman [17:36]: "Calvin Klein's return to the Runway is a really fun story to track."
• Leah Chernikov [26:05]: "Calvin Klein is such an important brand, and I'm excited to see it come back again."
• Lauren Sherman [36:56]: "Designer musical chairs have been shaping the fashion landscape since 2010."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Fashion People offers a comprehensive look into the dynamic shifts within the fashion industry over the past decade and a half. From high-stakes auctions and brand revivals to personal shopping experiences and playful culinary debates, Lauren Sherman and Leah Cherikov provide listeners with a multifaceted exploration of what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of fashion.

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Produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to the executive producers and the team at Odyssey and Puck for their continued support.

Transcript

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[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line sheet and today with me on the show is Harper's Bazaar Executive Editor Leah Chernikop. We're talking Calvin Klein's return to the Runway, Nordstrom's big deal, the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy Auction at Sotheby's and so much more. Happy Christmas everyone. Happy Hanukkah. Happy nothing if you don't celebrate anything this week. Online sheet are taking Christmas Day off but Monday was chock full. I looked at the past, present and future of Calvin Klein, which is returning to the Runway in February and it'll be a really fun story to track. Sarah Shapiro is back and she gets into the Nordstrom family's bid to take the business private and why investors should have let them do it years ago, they would have made way more money. Plus, yes, I do address this Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni controversy, if you weren't aware, actresses suing Baldoni, the director of that weird movie that I definitely didn't see, and I have a feeling many of you also did not see that came out over the summer saying that he not only sexually harassed her, but also created a smear campaign against her. Just a reminder, these are allegations. Nothing has been proven. It's just allegedly these things happen. But I would say that the evidence is pretty convincing. I read through the whole complaint last night and it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. It's an interesting one though, because smear campaign or not, a lot of people don't like, like Lively. They're. They get annoyed by her. Regardless, the question for line sheet and Rachel, who will probably get into this at another time, I'm sure, is whether or not his actions hurt the launch of his alleged actions hurt the launch of her hair care line. My feeling is she also backed away from social media after this alleged smear campaign. So, I don't know. The thing is, the distribution didn't change. It was in Target, it was dtc. It sold really well at the beginning. It dropped. That usually happens with celebrity lines. I don't know, maybe people just didn't like the product. She apparently tested very well in the market. She was working on it for seven years. I don't know how that's possible, but apparently. But we'll see if the product speaks for itself. I think she's bouncing back. It's everybody's behind her. These allegations are terrible. So online, the sentiment, I'm sure will improve for her and become more positive. I think the product probably speaks for itself. And if it's good, it'll be around in a year. And if it's not, it won't be. So we'll see. But Rachel, I'm sure we'll get into this another time as she is the beauty queen. Thursday, we will all be back with a mailbag issue answering your most pressing question. So if you do have one, I. We got so many good ones this time. I don't, I don't know if we'll even be able to. Maybe I'll do a part two at some point. But yeah, let me know because there's. There's a lot to say. And for now, let's get on with Leia and the show. Leia Chernikov, welcome to Fashion People.

[Leah Chernikov]

Hi, Lauren. Thank you so much for having Me back. I'm very happy to be here.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thanks for being here. So I've been listening to your new podcast that launched a few weeks ago called the Goodbye Bui. Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

A play on words.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. That you co host with. With your. What's Lynette. Lynette Nylander. What's her name?

[Leah Chernikov]

Executive Digital Director.

[Lauren Sherman]

Executive Digital Director, Lynette Nylander. And first of all, I really like it. I really hate other fashion podcasts. Not because they're not good, but because, like, this is homework to me. I don't like really watching fashion movies, things like that.

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, thank you, Lauren.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, it's really good. It's a. It's just you have all these, like, cool, interesting people on and talk about what they're. What they're buying. And I love the Isaac Mizrahi one. I'm also very into Bella Freud's podcast. She's coming on Fashion in a couple of weeks, which I'm very excited about. We just. I love it.

[Leah Chernikov]

So her guest list is bananas.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's bananas. So very high. Highly well produced as well. But I wanted to talk to you really briefly about something. At the top of every episode, you and Lynette discuss what you recently bought. Yeah. On one episode, you mentioned your issue trying to find the perfect pair of jeans.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

So I wanted to break this down.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

First of all, you're dealing with your boss, Samira Nasser is. Has the best jeans collection in the world, and she wears jeans better than anyone else in the world. So you have, like.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, I'm walking around all day next to, like, the queen of jeans.

[Lauren Sherman]

So it would make me feel very less. But this is what I will say, as someone, you know, I used to not really wear jeans. Do you remember when I only wore dresses?

[Leah Chernikov]

I do remember when you used to wear a lot of dresses.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's so.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's so weird. I think of you as wearing jeans now.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. I mean, I never wear dresses now. I feel very awkward in them.

[Leah Chernikov]

And I think if you maybe you, like, eased in with black jeans, but now I see you wearing vintage Levi's.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. So I. So here is the thing. What I will say. I. Since I moved to L. A. I own the amount of jeans I own. It is scary.

[Leah Chernikov]

Really?

[Lauren Sherman]

I can't even tell you how many pairs of jeans I own. It is embarrassing and scary. It's like my jeans and blazers. It's out of control.

[Leah Chernikov]

But isn't that a great, perfect uniform?

[Lauren Sherman]

Sure. It's my uniform. T shirt, jeans, blazer. Fine. But the thing I will say I do cycle them in and because you. I just buy them and then I'm like, they don't really work. And I also don't like. I don't like trendy shapes of jeans. Our friend Claire Mazur, I think she feels personally offended that I don't like cropped jeans. I. I just think it, like, is too momish. Like, I don't want. I. I like a. I like an ankle jean.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. But has to be a true ankle. Like, not above. I agree. And like, I, you know, if I want to be a little shorter with like a ballet flat, I'll just do a cuff.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

Rather, I want, I want the option of it to be, like, down.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. But. But I would say that since I moved here, I just buy jeans constantly. I'm constantly selling jeans. I'm constantly. And I buy a lot of. Next time you come to la, we can go to Scout, which is an amazing vintage store here where everything basically is under 300 bucks. And they sell a lot of, like, Plantation, like a lot of, like, the Japanese designers from the 80s stuff. And it's really affordable. I have a really amazing Yoji jacket that was like 200 bucks, like, really good, good deal. But they are best known for their amazing selection of vintage sweatshirts and jeans. And every. Everything is under, under 200, a lot of stuff under 100. And I've gotten a lot of jeans there. I. And that's where I sort of experiment with a boot cut or a flare or mostly Levi's. But I have an amazing pair. I actually got a pair of Wranglers for 40 bucks in Joshua Tree last summer that I. I mean, last winter that I wear for school runs and things. But what I would say is, is, does the vintage twins still exist?

[Leah Chernikov]

I don't know.

[Lauren Sherman]

Maybe it's this store in New York where you go in and they look at your waist and they find the jeans for you. They don't ask you your size or they didn't back then.

[Leah Chernikov]

They just like, size you up.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I have a pair of jeans from there that I got at least 10 years ago. And they are. Unfortunately, they fit me always, but, like, they really look better when I'm at, like, the lower end of my comfort weight. But they are the ones that I return to again and again and again and again. You just need to find one pair and you'll be fine.

[Leah Chernikov]

But I'm always like, I could. I could do better. You know, you actually have a pair that has, like, a bit of, like, fade down this like a front seam. That's the vintage twin and those like, I really love that. Okay. But did you. I don't know if you know about this new place, which seems kind of similar. And Emilia Petrarcha wrote about them called the Consistency Project.

[Lauren Sherman]

I followed them briefly on Instagram, then had to unfollow them because I follow 7,500 people. But I did, and I tagged it as somewhere I want to go next time I go to New York. That's in Brooklyn, right? Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's great. And that's where I've. That's where I sort of started my journey into figuring out, like, which style of Levi's. Vintage Levi's works for me because I went to that place, Front Street General. And yes, that was called in Dumbo.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

Thinking like, I really like their selection. They also have nice vintage sweatshirts. Thinking I just like, I'd find the pair there, but it's all 500 ones and I just like, they don't fit my body.

[Lauren Sherman]

Interesting. Jonathan Anderson is a big Front Street General person. I have. Yes. I learned that from Fashion Neurosis. I love it there too. I have an amazing kind of liner that I wear under lighter coats. Like, it's sort of a shiny puffer. But that store is amazing. They have really fun.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, it's great.

[Lauren Sherman]

Vintage bags that I think are fake, but, like, look cool. Great. It's such an amazing story and a lot of designers are somsack from. Alex Mill is a big Front Street General person too.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

But yeah, I think I have some 51 7s. I think those look good. I am. We. I mean, we have. You're very petite. I'm very. Not petite. But I would say, like, we actually, our body types aren't totally different.

[Leah Chernikov]

You have straight.

[Lauren Sherman]

We're both very straight. But I. I mean, I like a 501.

[Leah Chernikov]

They just. They. They do something weird at the crotch and actually the girls at the Consistency Project, so, like that weird crease, like, I.

[Lauren Sherman]

That happens to me too, but it makes it like I have no butt. So, like, it fills out my butt. And so that's why I like them.

[Leah Chernikov]

I have a bit of a tush and I like.

[Lauren Sherman]

So you don't need that.

[Leah Chernikov]

So the Consistency Project, just for your listeners, they. They like, do measure you and they like. It's basically to help, like, solve this thing of, like, searching for the perfect pair of vintage denim make it easier. So they. They exclusively sell vintage Levi's. Also those painter pants, I can't remember the name of them right now.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, con art.

[Leah Chernikov]

No, something else. I'll figure it out. And then they come in like cool colors, but they're old anyway. We'll get there. But they do that. They'll bring out a stack based on the wash, the style and your measurements. And that's how I've gotten close to like I have two pairs that I wear a lot, a lot from them. And they're Both, they're either five 550s or 505s. Oh, and my, my style.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. So I am coming to New York in January for a very brief two day trip that is just for me. I'm doing nice. I'm very excited. I'm doing a book thing and then I'm going to stop off in New York for two days and attend a friend's 40th birthday party. Brit are. Oh, I heard about is my date to the party themed?

[Leah Chernikov]

I heard baby blue and gold.

[Lauren Sherman]

Navy blue and gold.

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, that makes so much more sense.

[Lauren Sherman]

I mean honestly, I think any attempt to do the theme will be appreciated by this person. The point being that I'm so excited. I'm gonna go to a play. Not a musical. I don't do that. A play. And also Saturday I'm just gonna go shopping and go to art gallery. So if you would like to have a Terrific lady day.

[Leah Chernikov]

I would love to have a Terrific.

[Lauren Sherman]

Lady day and go to the conspiracy. It's called the Conspiracy Project.

[Leah Chernikov]

Consistency.

[Lauren Sherman]

Consistency Project. Why don't we plan that. I believe the 24th.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. And we'll just go somewhere else too. And now everyone who wants to join us. Okay. Those painter pants are called Stanray.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Stanray. So if anyone wants to go with us. Actually, you're really not invited. But let's plan it. I. Let's plan to go that day in the middle of the day.

[Leah Chernikov]

I love a Terrific lady break.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, we haven't done it in a long time.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. That was my bachelorette from you and Brit was the original terrific. Terrific Lady.

[Lauren Sherman]

Lots of memories. Shout out to Ruthie Friedlander always.

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[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, so let's get into the news of the day. Okay, let's start with this Carolyn Bassett Kennedy Auction at Sotheby. So last Monday or Tuesday, I got this tip that Sarah Stoddinger, the founder of stod, had bought one of the jackets from the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy Auction at Sotheby's. And she had paid something like I think $33,600 for the for I believe it was the black product. I have to pull up line sheet. Then I find out that she bought all three lots from Cara Sotheby's, did this big fashion lot. It was they sold over a million dollars worth of stuff. It was all these amazing Chanel Galanos, like every designer you would ever want. And there were three pieces from Carolyn Bessant. One was a vintage leopard coat, which I feel like gonna be the coat of the season next season. Totally are picking them up right now. And do you have the numbers up anywhere or let me.

[Leah Chernikov]

I'm pulling it up now. It was all in the posts. Thank you, Rachel Tashin. It was a lot.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was a lot. It was in line sheet also. And I believe before learned it all.

[Leah Chernikov]

In line sheet originally.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, I mean they, they. As soon as she's got you on.

[Leah Chernikov]

The SEO, that's it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. As soon as they sent the tip, it was like leaked it. As soon as I sent them the tip, I was like, I know that this happened. And this is how much she paid for it. It was leaked to all the other.

[Leah Chernikov]

177,600 was the total for the three coats.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. So let me look it up. Of the individual items at the price per coat. Yes. One of them was 33,600. I believe that was black Prada. Okay.

[Leah Chernikov]

And that was just like a single breasted Super 90s.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. And the funny thing was I had seen a few. Yes, 33,600. No, she paid 78,000 for the Prada.

[Leah Chernikov]

For the Prada single. What did the leopard go for?

[Lauren Sherman]

The leopard went for 33,600. That was faux leopard fur coat from the late 60s, I think 69 and then 66,000 for this Yoji Yamamoto double breasted jacket. The Prada single breasted black coat is the one that I had seen a couple of weeks earlier that someone had bought. Bought. Yes. Had bought in like for way cheap, obviously for like a thousand bucks or something like that. Because you can get it. This coat. It does exist. So the interesting thing about a lot of Carolyn Bessette's clothing is that most of it was Prada. So you can find it. And Prada did distribute actual clothes and shoes and stuff in the 90s where a lot of brands really didn't. Like, you can't really buy Marc Jacobs from the 90s. I've tried. There's this one collection I'm obsessed with. If even if you find it, you literally can only find it in size 02 or whatever. They were making tons of those clothes. Whereas Prada, they were making it so you could find a product coat from the. This product coat from the 90s. This Friday on Fashion People, we have Sunita, who wrote the CBK fashion book on as a special treat after Christmas tree. Yeah, she was really great. And so we dig more into why people are so obsessed with her now. But to me, Carolyn Bessette is such a Harper's bazaar in the 90s woman. Like, I really associate her. Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

Very Liz Tilburys.

[Lauren Sherman]

Very Liz Tilburys. Like, which was my. That was really formative for me as growing up and being interested in fashion like that. I was obsessed with that era of Harper's Bazaar in particular and what it represented about New York and style and lots of black and as someone you're. You're now, you know, creating this magazine. But looking back at her and I'm sure she comes up in conversation for you all a lot because you talk a lot about shopping and style and she had so much personal style. What do you think it was about her that was so special?

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, it's funny, I obviously like, we have no idea. I like, I can't imagine what the conversation was like around that time. But we know from going to shows she's just like. She is the mood board for a lot of some of the most influential designers. I remember when the row was starting and I think I remember someone told me the mood board was all cbk. And so I just feel like that really says a lot that some of the more kind of influential New York designers now and of the past like decade or so, like we're really driven by her and her style. Like it. So. So I guess, like, I can't really like imagine what it was like then. Obviously she was photographed a lot and that was when, you know, those kind of photos just like. I guess would have been really dominant in like tabloids, but pre Internet. But thinking about the influence in fashion, it's just really been big.

[Lauren Sherman]

I was obsessed with her, but also I was obsessed with Gwyneth Paltrow in that era. And I think Gwyneth Paltrow, she's a few years younger than her, but they had.

[Leah Chernikov]

I think she would have been looking to her.

[Lauren Sherman]

Right? She was really looking to her. So it was like Gwyneth sort of diffused it for normal girls in the suburbs. In some ways she also. It's interesting. It's like there is a weird connection. Gwyneth is more California, more LA and all that stuff. But the thing she started off New.

[Leah Chernikov]

York, you know, she went to Spence.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she had that like she had originally grown up. She like when she was young, grew up in California and then they moved to New York. So it was like that mix. But I. The thing that she did for me is that's how I found out about Narciso Rodriguez. Cuz he designed her wedding dress and Loewe, which I definitely didn't pronounce that way. I probably pronounced lowy or low low because Narciso was designing it at the time. But yeah, I mean And I was obsessed with Calvin Klein. I have a big storyline sheet on Monday about the Calvin Klein return. Yeah. And that I was. I mean, my mom was obsessed with Calvin Klein too. Like, that was the. That's the first designer I really knew about growing up. And same that.

[Leah Chernikov]

And probably Donna Karen. My mom loved Donna Karen. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

And you think about. Actually talk about Gwyneth Paltrow in Great Expectations, a terrible movie. But her wardrobe is all done.

[Leah Chernikov]

Great fashion.

[Lauren Sherman]

She looks amazing. The movie. Late 90s movies with fashion. Gwyneth and Great Expectations. And then Meg Ryan wore basically head to toe Marc Jacobs. And you've got mail. Great. Oh, it's all. I should rewatch the Marc Jacobs. And it's like this one collection. I think it's 97. There's this dress that Winona Ryder wore and Meg Ryan wears another version of it. It's this, like sheer seamed waist, pleat, like flat pleats, I guess, knife pleats or whatever. Bottom. And it was Runway in lavender. Winona Ryder wore it to an event in lavender. But then Meg Ryan wears it in, like gray Super 150 wool in the movie. It's.

[Leah Chernikov]

I will have to rewatch just for that. And we've talked about this before, but the Thomas Crown Affair.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yes. Michael Kors. All Michael Kors for Celine. So good.

[Leah Chernikov]

That was such a defining fashion movie for me. All just monochrome. Like the most sumptuous knits and coats. Just so good.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's too good. So no surprise that Sarah Stodinger was inspired to buy this stuff. She has the means. Good for her. Her business is booming. She's married to Ari Emanuel, the CEO of whatever that company is called. And they're doing great. And you know what? I am so happy she bought that stuff. I'm a huge.

[Leah Chernikov]

And it didn't go somewhere else.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

She's.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's awesome. I hope she wears it. She never will, but.

[Leah Chernikov]

Well. Or just, you know, like. But she is someone who will treasure it. Right. She appreciates how special those pieces are. I don't know if the family was thrilled they posted.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, really?

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. I mean, she's someone who looks okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think it's awesome. And she has. She basically said she. The quote she sent me, which I'm sure she sent to a lot of people, was like, something about, I'm gonna, like, take care of this the way someone would take care of a Michael Jordan basketball jersey.

[Leah Chernikov]

And that's it.

[Lauren Sherman]

I thought it was. She's. I'm huge fan. Good for her. See what the next Collection looks like.

[Leah Chernikov]

I love that also. She just bought them all, you know.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's quite a nice flex.

[Lauren Sherman]

And. And I'm going to be looking for that black Prada for myself. Okay.

[Leah Chernikov]

Let me know if you find it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Years to come. So moving on to Calvin.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

They announced last week. I thought they announced this months ago, but I think it was like, a little up in the air that their new designer, Veronica Leone. Veronica Leone is going to show her first collection at Fashion Week in February. It's going to be men's and women's. What do you think? Are you excited? Do you care at all? Do you think Fashion Week, especially in New York, matters? What's your opinion?

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, yeah, I'm excited. I think Calvin Klein is such an important, like, brand, and I'm excited to see it come back again. I mean, it was so. Do you remember? I mean, I think I saw you, like, post this somewhere, but the. Just the. The cultural kind of, like, influence it's had and to see it come back under a. Like, you know, we've watched a few different tenures of Calvin Klein. Like, we were there for Raph.

[Lauren Sherman]

And then, you know, I loved it so much. I loved it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, it was amazing and really special.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was really special.

[Leah Chernikov]

It was like such a rare, special moment. It felt so exciting. And then, you know, Francesco Costa for a long time, but also great. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Didn't really have any distribution of Francisco's looks. And then when Raph came on, they started distributing it really widely, but they didn't have the infrastructure to make the clothes in a way that would work. And also I think that the management at the time really thought they were going to get a hit bag out of it. It was the time when Alessandro and Demna were, like, booming at Balenciaga and Gucci, and I think he really thought that Raf was going to do that for them, and he didn't understand that you need an infrastructure. And they're not a European company that can easily, like, make a handbag pop. And I also remember I bought the jeans and the jeans were just like three sizes too big. And I realized they were so long that no matter what I did, they would never fit. Like, even if I had bought a smaller size, they just would never have fit properly. And yeah, like, the whole team. Michelle Kessler, who was the president, and Raph and Peter and Matthieu, like, it's amazing. And I think that those clothes forever will be on people's other designers mood boards. That's what I wrote on Monday. Like, it just. It was such a important time, and I was actually on the Real World. I think I'm going to get a blazer because they're, like, 65 bucks.

[Leah Chernikov]

Great. It's always nice to find the things, like, before they become part of, like, what everyone decides is, like, this sort of vintage that they're searching for.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. I think the challenge is so. From what I know from about Veronica is that she was in very high demand in Europe, so she was interviewing for a bunch of jobs. She is thought of as being awesome and wonderful. She worked for every. She worked at the Rose. She worked at Phoebe, Celine. She worked at, like, Jill Sander, basically all the brands that are in that, like, you hate to call it minimalism, because it's just like a very particular kind of. A kind of brand that is sort of inspired by the Japanese 80s Japanese designers, but, like, modernized for. For basic bitches who, like. Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

But when you think about CBK and Calvin in the 90s, like, it is so, like, it's really a part of that kind of formative conversation too. So it feels right that they bring someone in who's, like, kind of fluent in that language.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, I agree. And Carolyn was the perfect example of. She wore Calvin and she wore Yochi. Yeah. So. And eventually Narciso. But. But. So the challenge, I think, for Veronica, and we'll see, is like, that. That space is very different than it was in the 90s. And you have the row doing it in a very particular way where they're taking basically basics and basic, simple ideas and perfecting them to an extent that you can't not want them. And so nothing compares. And no matter what you do, nothing is as good as the ROE version. And then at the bottom, you have Uniqlo doing a great job, and then in the middle, you have Totem doing a pretty good job. And. And recently I've been. I've been wearing more coast or costs. I always. I never know. I think it's costs. Right.

[Leah Chernikov]

I say costs. I don't know if I'm right either.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think they. They were really good when they first launched. And I. We. We have. We talked about the sweater which I'm wearing right now that is, like, similar to one that the row makes that. And I never go. I never do the, like, similar version thing. But this cost sweater is. They've tweaked it enough that it. It's just awesome. And it's under 300.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Faith, our social manager that, you know, she was wearing it. Yeah. The best she is Very chic and was wearing it and then I was like, oh, okay, it's back in stock because I did try to get it and it was out.

[Lauren Sherman]

They have. They have it in a pink that I might get because I'm like really pink right now. But the. The thing is. And when cost first launch was really good with this woman. Rebecca Bay is awesome. She's at Mary Mecco now. And then it was boring for a while and now it's really, really good. Good again. So it's just that that space is like. I. The way I personally shop is I either just buy Uniqlo or I buy the row on sale. Like, that's the way I shop. And I think a lot of other consumers and there are a lot of these sort of. So. So I'm excited to see what is her big idea that she's going to make me want to buy this because I am. We are both like the customer. And so I'm excited too. I also hope that the other thing that they could do. They still have a great business in underwear.

[Leah Chernikov]

I was just going to say, does she oversee that? Because obviously Calvin Klein has stayed part of the cultural conversation because of the ad campaigns, which continue to be great. Jeremy Allen White, you know, like the great casting, great photography. So it continues to be a brand that people think is cool because of. Yeah, yeah. Of the marketing of the underwear.

[Lauren Sherman]

Totally. And yeah, I think. No, I don't think she will. And with Raf, he did have a little bit of. He did the marketing. There was interesting marketing. It was not the way. It was not Bieber's. Bieber style. It was. It was definitely sexually charged. But like his point of view. And I really love that too. But yeah, I don't think she. My sense is that she's doing this collection and let's see how it goes and then they'll add it in. The interesting thing about Stefan Larson, who's the CEO of pvh, which owns Calvin and Tommy, is he worked. He's had a very interesting background. He came from H and M, then he worked at Old Navy and then he went to Ralph Lauren. He was there for like a year. He got fired because he disagreed with Ralph Lauren, the man on a lot of stuff. And then he sort of waited it out. He interviewed for a bunch of different jobs. I know he interviewed for the J Crew CEO job and then he took this PVH job. And he's done a really good job with it in that, like he's cleaned up the business, but he has been very careful about making changes. He hired an executive from the Zara to be the president of the Calvin brand. And they've slowly like the. They got the marketing back on track. It had. It had sort of fallen off in 2010s. It was complicated because of the rap thing, but also other things. Greta Lee, Jeremy Allen, White people freaked out on. She looked amazing. We love love. She's the best. But then they're slowly tweaking these brands. You could also see it at Tommy, where the Runway collections, which you are. We're sort of like, it was more about the performance than it still is. They had Wu Tang at the last show, but you could see the clothes. There's. There's more of an idea in the clothes that's not just for that night. And it. But it's been very slow. And so it's interesting because usually at these companies, they want to make changes really, really fast to boost the stock price and get investors excited. And what Stefan has done is he's instead been like, okay, I'm going to fix this business in the way that I can. I'm going to get out of more of the Macy's because Macy's is falling apart and we're in these stupid Macy's that we shouldn't be in. I'm going to focus on DTC distribution and distribution and on Amazon, those kinds of places. And then I'm going to work on the brand because he does really care about the brand, whereas a lot of these retail experiences executives don't. So it's interesting and I'm excited. Like, let's see it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Whatever happens. Like, if you look at the RAF experiment, did it work? Quote unquote. They were only there for a year and a half. I guess it. It didn't work from like a. It didn't change. It didn't transform that business like in.

[Leah Chernikov]

But was there time even to.

[Lauren Sherman]

No. And also did it make it a competitor to Gucci? No. But you know what? It was never going to be. But it transformed the company in that they had to like completely reset everything and figure things out. And it was so inspiring and fun and everything. So, yeah, I'm very. Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And it was like to have that kind of level of someone bringing a strong idea into New York like that. And it was very cool.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

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[Lauren Sherman]

Edu. So another musical chair where the. The seat is taken for a little bit. I realized something. We met in 2010 when we were co editors of the website Fashionista. We've been covering designer musical chairs. I think that I coined that term, by the way.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's possible maybe.

[Lauren Sherman]

You know what though? Maybe Farron or Brit, who are our predecessors did. I bet that's. That's what happened. I'm sure we'll Faren is going to listen to this and she'll tell you. She'll tell you. Hi fan. Can you believe, first of all, the thing that cracks me up about all this. First of all, can you believe that we've been writing. You. You have moved on, but I am still writing about this stuff?

[Leah Chernikov]

I think you've moved on too. But yes, you're still writing about it, but we've certainly moved on from doing four to five blog posts a day. But honestly, you're writing like 700 newsletters a week. So maybe it's similar.

[Lauren Sherman]

It feels now it's just that I do more reporting and it's not just like aggregating stuff. But the interesting thing about it is like someone DM me a reader and was like, I made a graphic for you and do you remember I tried to find the graphic that we made that was. Did you find it? Oh my God, it's gone.

[Leah Chernikov]

Did we use the carousel from the Mark show? The Mark Vuitton? Do you remember that?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, we use that carousel. I think so. When we put their heads on. Their heads on each. Yeah, I think we did.

[Leah Chernikov]

We were really fast and loose. There were no rules then.

[Lauren Sherman]

There were no rules. But the issue. So what we just said, because it probably doesn't make sense to people, is we made a graphic with this carousel from this Marc Jacobs Louis Vuitton show and all the models were on the carousel, and we put the heads of the designers on the carousel.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. That were all in rotation.

[Lauren Sherman]

So unfortunately for some platform changeover, a lot of our content from Fashionista is gone, which is really sad because that was the heyday of, you know, it's just sad. Love Fashionista, though, so.

[Leah Chernikov]

Hi, Donnie.

[Lauren Sherman]

Hi, Donnie. But. But the. The hilarious thing to me is you look on, like, Juan Granary, their Instagram account. I love them. These. There's so much talk about, oh, my God, this has gotten out of control. The designer switcheroos are out of. It's always been like this. People always, like, always, like. It's just that the way the Internet works now, it's so incremental. People are tweeting about it. People are Instagramm. Also, I realized that I've been on Twitter since 2008, so it'll. It's almost.

[Leah Chernikov]

I wonder how long it's.

[Lauren Sherman]

15. I've been on Twitter for 17 years, which is creepy. I'm barely on it. I did tweet something last night because I was like, I have nowhere to share this with everyone.

[Leah Chernikov]

You tweeted?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I tweeted that Fritz realized that he came to the. Yeah. He came to the conclusion himself that Sesame street characters were Muppets. He said, oh, because we were watching Muppets Take Manhattan and you know the wedding scene when all the Sesame street characters are there? He was like, oh, so the Sesame street characters are Muppets too? I said, yes. He said, but where's Elmo? I said, I don't think Elmo was alive when the Muppets Take Manhattan happened. But it was really awesome.

[Leah Chernikov]

You know, Elmo is in the old. Old Sesame Streets. The ones from the 80s.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. But I think this was 70. This was. It was early 80s. But he isn't in this. For some reason.

[Leah Chernikov]

He isn't in the. Yes, the Muppets. Okay. I joined Twitter in June 2009.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. I was in 08, obviously, because someone was telling me that I had to be on this.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

And shocked. Yeah. So. So. But it's just crazy. But anyway, the point being that, like, I just can't believe that a. We known each other for 15 years. But also, it's just interesting the way new generations look at the industry, because this is not new. It's just that there's just so much more coverage of it, whereas this is happening in the 90s in a way, too. I mean, there it was. They were just being appointed for the first time. But even, like, you look at Dior. Dior had different designers every few years for 20, 30 years, 40 years. Karl Lagerfeld, Chloe. Stella Carnegie, Chloe. Like, this kind of stuff happened. It was just like there wasn't anywhere to share it instantly. And so now it's instantaneous. And that part of it, it's just. It's very fascinating to me to see how new generations react to it. When in the past, like, the only people you could really talk about this was. Was French taxi drivers who you'd get into the cabin, they'd be like, did you hear this?

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Well, it's like, you know, the industry town or whatever.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

What was I gonna say? Company town. Just like you and Hollywood now. Yeah, the musical. I was gonna say. Okay, so the. But the one thing I think I will say is, like, Chanel's pretty consequential. Like the. All of it has always been happening. But that is a big one, right?

[Lauren Sherman]

I. 100%.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's all I was thinking. I think it's. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think it's very consequential because of the choice they made. If they had hired Eddie, which I wanted them to, and I still think he would have been amazing. It wouldn't have been as consequential because it would have been, we know what we would get. Whereas here they took a really long view approach and they chose someone who is almost unproven and decided to focus on what they believed was the future of the business, which is craft and. And less about image and. And driving home. It's just going to be interesting. Like, I'm sure he'll have an influence on the image, but his title is very fascinating. It's Artistic Director of Fashion Creations. It's so specific. Yeah, I think, I wonder, do you.

[Leah Chernikov]

Think that's a funny English translation of something that makes more sense in French?

[Lauren Sherman]

I, you know, you know, we. There is someone I. I can ask.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. I wonder what the title is.

[Lauren Sherman]

If that person. I have to ask that person in person. So I will ask them in February. It's not something this person is. Is very close to the business and is not someone I ask for information because they. It's a really good friend of mine and it's not about a work. It's not a work friend. And so. But I can ask them in person when I see them because they will have the exact answer. Great, great. That's a good question. But I think, yes, I do think you're right. But I also think this. The being so specific was on purpose because he isn't going to be running everything. And so they don't. They don't want to. My guess is that his Runway will impress all the other stuff, but it won't be his job to worry about the other stuff. In the same way that Hermes, like Nadej's Runway, inspires the campaigns, but she doesn't have to do every little thing on them, that type of thing. So it'll be. It'll be really interesting. But it's a great point. And it's such a. It's going to be 2025 is. I almost said 2026 is going to be such a fun year.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, yeah. A lot of big shifts, but it's. But it is true that I just think, you know, over the years since we. So when we were at Fashionista, that was really the beginning of blogs and creating that kind of online audience for like, kind of more. What would have been more niche kind of industries at the time. And now there's. The Internet's been around and social media has exploded. So now those niche audiences have, you know, exploded and people are. There's just more. More of an audience, more of an appetite and, And. And that's just been. Been able to consume this stuff for longer too. So there is this, like, breathless kind of consumption of.

[Lauren Sherman]

It feels very breathless. Gotta catch it. That's why we publish in the afternoon, so we can chill out for a minute and think about what really happened. Digest. I feel like the afternoon publishing is very your speed.

[Leah Chernikov]

It sure is.

[Lauren Sherman]

So another thing to look forward to this year is there's going to be a bunch of changes at department stores. The Saks Neiman deal, I think it's going to close by the end of this year. I'm just like, waiting. Poor Sarah Shapiro, she just joined lunch and I'm like, if this happens, you and I need to do like a little conversation and publish it because what will it mean?

[Leah Chernikov]

I'm never as good at following this sort of stuff that like, feels very, very like business.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. We'll get into it another time to start. It's not going to mean anything. I think in the end there. They will close a bunch of stores in cities where you don't need a Saxon. And even they're saying they won't because they need to, you know, from. For competitive reasons, need to make, you know, they need to ensure the FTC and all these people that there is still gonna be a lot of competition between the two stores. I think that they will close underperforming stores. We'll see. But that one is not as interesting to me right now as the Nordstrom one, because that happened. The Saks thing's probably gonna happen right after we record this or something. So apologies to everyone if the Saks thing happened by the time you listen to this. But the Nordstrom thing just happened this morning. And Sarah did write about this in Lion Cheat on Monday. The interesting thing about Nordstrom going private is that they tried to go private. The family still runs the business. They're awesome. They really run it. Like they care deeply. They want it to be a fun experience. You walk into a Nordstrom, you can tell, like, it's really fun to go shopping there. They wanted to go private, like, five years ago. The investors rejected the offer. Now they had to take an offer that was like, more than half, less. Like they're going to make way less money on the deal than they would have five years ago. And it's just like. It just shows, like, this is a declining business. Like, I. We always talk about this at Puck, but like, I write about a lot of businesses that are in managed decline. Like, not. Not the luxury industry that's still growing, but, you know, it's consolidating. It's some point it will start declining. And department stores, they will always exist, but they will continue to get smaller and smaller. But the question I have for you is not about the business, just, what do you like about shopping? What do you like? The last time we did A Terrific Lady Day, which for anyone is asking what that means, it's like from a very old season of the League, which I can't believe I used still watch that show. But anyway. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

I forgot the origins of it altogether.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was on the. It was an episode of the League. But I feel like I'm like, in those people's orbits.

[Leah Chernikov]

I still like Nick Kroll. Is that okay?

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm very much in all those people's orbits because I live on the east side and I'm, like, connected to all these, like, adjacent people. Adjacent to all these people. So I feel like I. I live the league now.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I've been to trampoline class with Katie as who's one of the stars.

[Leah Chernikov]

Love it.

[Lauren Sherman]

That was pre pandemic. But anyway.

[Leah Chernikov]

So a main native, I think I believe interest.

[Lauren Sherman]

That tracks. That's all I'm gonna say. The. But anyway, the last time I think we did A Terrific Lady Day was right before your wedding was like. Which was like a gazillion years ago. And we went to Bergdorf Goodman and I got a pair of Bonolo Blahniks and we had lunch there and we did go to Great Jones.

[Leah Chernikov]

Is that where the Ruthie shout out comes in?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

We have to cut this.

[Lauren Sherman]

Why do we need to cut it?

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. I don't know.

[Lauren Sherman]

We're not saying anything.

[Rebag Representative]

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[Leah Chernikov]

We went to Great Jones anyway. What else did we do?

[Lauren Sherman]

We went to Bergdorf.

[Leah Chernikov]

Did I get anything?

[Lauren Sherman]

No, of course not. You never spark like that. I spent Manola blocks, but thank you. Can you. What do you like about. You still live in New York? You can go shopping more easily than I can or anybody who lives in another city where you have to drive to a terrible parking lot where like it's just hell. Like what, what do you like about shopping and going into stores like Nordstrom?

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, so I work right next to Nordstrom, so I.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you go in a lot?

[Leah Chernikov]

I go in fairly often. It's very convenient. So like I, I'm currently in Montreal with my. At my, where my sister and brother in law live and I have my brother in law for Secret Santa. So I got his present for pickup at Nordstrom. Super easy. And yeah, it's just really well laid out. It really feels like a whole world. And I do love. There's like this little bar in the. The men's store.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's like a good kind of like, you know, if you need to like.

[Lauren Sherman]

Really talk some shit after work, shout out to gn.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Men's fashion director at Nordstrom.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's a good spot to do it. And when my husband Peter needed a new suit, that's where we went. Yeah. Just feels, you know, they're, they're like going to get it right and it's going to be a nice experience. And I just don't think you can say that for most. I agree places, certainly most department stores. I mean when you ask like what do I like about shopping? I think I don't like it that much. I rarely have a good experience going into a store. And you know, I think like I also as you said, like I, I'm really like a timid shopper too. I don't like spend a lot at one time. I like court things for a while before I buy them. So then I'm like going to a store several times. But so it's not, it's not like really in my nature maybe to love it, but I do appreciate like a beautiful experience. I like the Rachel Comey store on Crosby a lot. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I shop at La Garcon when I'm in New York now. Even though I don't think their customer service is great, they're. They're not. Like, the last time I was there, I wanted to try on, like, four things, and they were like, that feels like a lot. Yeah. And they were like, it's gonna take, like, a half an hour for us to get this stuff for you. And I was like, peace. I said, okay, get it for me and I'll come the next day. Of course, I didn't have time, and so I didn't buy it and look like, did I need it, but I walked in there in a. Goodbye. Pardon.

[Leah Chernikov]

They have a good buy, right?

[Lauren Sherman]

They have an amazing buy. It's like the only store if that's not true. It's Amaury's in. What's that area in Ocean County? I forget the town. Whatever. It's like the really fancy in the O.C. amerie's Newport is honestly the best store in America. I think Tina. I just had Tina lacking in on her store was amazing. I never got to go to it, but it was. The buy was amazing.

[Leah Chernikov]

Beloved. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I really like la Gosh. I've always shopped there. And I tend to go shopping when I'm in Paris. Like, not to sound like a ridiculous human being, which I am. But, like, I also honestly don't really want to shop other. I don't really want to buy designer stuff. I. I go to Charbot and I buy one shirt every other time I go. Or once a year. Next time in Paris, my plan is to go to Husband's and get a blazer and a shirt.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Husband's is a place we just had. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

So we. Emmanuel Ault was in Samira's newsletter and said that's where she goes for her blazers. And she obviously, like, is there any other person to convince you that that's where you should go for blazers? But then also, Jenna Lyons was our last guest on our last episode of the pod. She said her favorite store in New York is La Garcon.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, interesting.

[Leah Chernikov]

And also she gets her blazers at Husbands.

[Lauren Sherman]

Husbands. Okay, so.

[Leah Chernikov]

And she gets her shirts all custom made at Ascot Chang.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, interesting. That's a good tip. So because I need a pink shirt, I'll probably just get it at Charvet. I might get a custom at Charvet because I've never done that. But I. I'm definitely so interesting. You mentioned that Manuel Alp thing to me, and then I ran into her at Nine Orchard when she was in town for the Victoria's Secret fashion show because she styled.

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, yeah, but she styled.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, she had. And I, we talked about them and she was like, yeah, you gotta go. The guy who runs it, Google him. He's the chicest male that's ever lived. And she also said that, but it was. That's, that's what I'd rather do. Like, get one thing or I've gone a couple times to Prada in Milan and like gotten a dress or gotten a jacket and. Or a light or whatever. Like, you got one thing. You.

[Leah Chernikov]

You do that. Like, I would get a blazer at this place. Like, that's why I haven't been to Paris in a while. And if I went, I would like, definitely go there. And I love the idea of having like a custom button down made because Jenna Lyons said I was like, oh, and you must have to keep them, like perfectly starched and you have to steam everything. And she's like, no, that's not the way I live. Like, when you get a nice shirt made for you, you can wash them and just hang them.

[Lauren Sherman]

And they're good.

[Leah Chernikov]

Like, they looked crisp as hell.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And she didn't have to do anything. And I was like, oh, well, that's for me. You know, I'm not like, I cannot keep a closet like that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's. So that's, that's what I think has changed about. And I also. I agree. I don't think there are many great shopping experiences we mentioned at the top of this scout. I love going shopping there because it's really fun. It's never that crowded. It's a great mix of people. The guy who owns it is friends with like Daphne Yavich and Mariam Nasir and that whole crew. And that's how I found out about it because they're my influencers. But I've been shopping there for years and it's really fun. Like, I often go there and then I'll go down the row. Because you can walk.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

If you, if you're not from la, you would walk that. People from LA would be like, that's crazy. That's seven minutes.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, right.

[Lauren Sherman]

But I often do that. And then, and then in New York, I go to La Garcon if I have time or if I'm staying in that neighborhood. Like, I went into La Garcon in September to pick up. I bought a sweatshirt from Orally and I was like, well, I'll just have it. I'll pick it up in store since I'm going. It was like very thin sweatshirt. I get there, I try on this Auralie leather jacket and I bought it, which.

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, I remember you said you bought Oral leather.

[Lauren Sherman]

If I had bought it from the Japanese website, I would have saved a lot of money, but I would have had to wait.

[Leah Chernikov]

Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

And wear it right away. Yeah, it's interesting. Well, we're very excited for Nordstrom. Love them. I love Olivia Kim, who does a bunch of stuff there. Love Ricky Tsole, Love Sam. Love Gian. Love all the Nordstrom family. They're the best. I'm really happy for them that they got to do this. And I'm sorry for their investors that their investors wouldn't let them take it private five years ago. That is their loss. So I had one other quick thing that I wanted to talk to you about.

[Leah Chernikov]

Great.

[Lauren Sherman]

The battle of the Panettone.

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So you warned me this was coming.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's really funny because.

[Leah Chernikov]

So, okay, explain it to me. Why is there a battle?

[Lauren Sherman]

Really funny, because a couple of weeks ago, I was like, send me your best parties that you've gone to during Fashion Week. I mean, not during Fashion Week, during Christmas. Because, like, all these fashion brands, all these people have holiday parties. I didn't get a ton of responses. People just, like, did. But then I mentioned at the bottom of my newsletter, all the way at the bottom, like, whose panettone is the best Panettone. I got so many people being like, this one's the best.

[Leah Chernikov]

Who is.

[Lauren Sherman]

This one's the best. This one's the best. It's really, really a mixed bag. So, like, a lot of people love Gucci has really gone strong because they have, like, the whole Gucci cafe. I got it. I got a vote for Etro. I did not get the Etro one. I got the Prada one, which is from Marchese, and that one, which they own, which, by the way, apparently there's going to be. Did you see this controversy there? There's potentially going to be a product cafe that opens where Lore Fish Bar is. Have you ever been there? Yes. It's, like very Gawker coated.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like Lockhart Sandwich.

[Leah Chernikov]

And remember, what was that place we always got the sandwiches from?

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, my God, that place. Olives.

[Leah Chernikov]

Olives, yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

That place is right around there. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. I still love those sandwiches. But Lore Fish Bar is like this place where, I don't know, like a lot of media people. Like media Mesh. Did you ever go to Media Meshing? No, this was like a tech business reporter thing.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like, I don't. I unfortunately Was wrapped up in that always. But it was very popular and it is still. I love it. It's really fun. It's like has hillstone vibes but they mostly sell fish and sushi and stuff. But apparently Prada is trying to take over that space and there's going to be a battle. I'm going to write about it a little more at the end of the week because it was a mailbag question. But anyway, it makes sense, right?

[Leah Chernikov]

It feels like that's the, like one of the new extension of the big luxury brand. Have these like beautiful dining spaces and.

[Lauren Sherman]

And Prada that are really cool. Yeah. And Prada bought a, a cafe. They bought a place that sells candy and sweets and panettone or whatever. Gucci. Gucci, as I said with their, with their restaurant has gone like much bigger on the panettone. There's this panettone and then Etro sends one. Who else? There's someone. Oh, Carrie diamond who runs Cherry Bomb messaged me. She said she gets them all and she said that the Dolce and Gabbana one is the best. So I don't have. Look, I gotta be honest, I don't like panetone. This is not where I want to spend my calories.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, I agree.

[Lauren Sherman]

Send me the Dries chocolate bar anytime. Which they did. Thanks to Dries Van Noten for not taking me off that list. Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

I love that. I love that chocolate bar. My favorite is the Max Mara. That's what I live for. Thank you, Jeji.

[Lauren Sherman]

They do the cheese and the balsamic.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's like a giant wedge of incredible aged parm that I literally use to the rinds and then I save the rinds and freeze them for soups. A age balsamic and a beautiful olive oil.

[Lauren Sherman]

Shout out to our Judgy Graham. I'm not on that list. But honestly, it's fine. She's. If she hears this, she's going to call me and be like, you're on the list. I don't know what happened.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

But it's cool.

[Leah Chernikov]

Judgy, I love you so much. I look forward to it every year. It is the best.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's so my big. Because, you know, I only take perishable things, so I don't take any actual gifts. Tom Brown sent me flowers, which was really nice. So thank you all for sending those. But the panettone thing, you're accepting. Well, look, here's the thing I'm gonna make because I'm getting one this week. Apparently one is coming. The Prada one. I gifted to a friend and they were like over the moon, so I didn't get to taste it, but it was just beautif. It looked beautiful. I was just so. It felt really nice. But I think I'm gonna make bread pudding out of it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, that feels like a great idea.

[Lauren Sherman]

We also, unfortunately have two gluten free panettone in the house that my husband bought at Italy that will like. It's just gluten free panetto.

[Leah Chernikov]

I know, but you said two.

[Lauren Sherman]

Two. Yeah. He bought like two different flavors. Because why. Why are we. Why are we ever gonna use them? Who's gonna eat them? He'll have one bite. They're probably $40. It's so dumb.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

But well, also it's very charming.

[Leah Chernikov]

He loves to shop too.

[Lauren Sherman]

He does. I mean, thank God, because I'd be in big trouble if. If he. If he didn't.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's just interesting that it's become like, I think someone should do a panettone taste test next year and put them all. Like, who could do like, the cuck should do this.

[Leah Chernikov]

Mel. Or like interview.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Yeah. Mel do this.

[Leah Chernikov]

Mel and Dara sit down in beautiful fashions and blind taste test all the luxury house.

[Lauren Sherman]

Or they have like a chef like Bobby flay or Rocco DiSpirito who came up in a conversation at a holiday party a few days ago.

[Leah Chernikov]

Wow. Or was like, what was that conversation from the past?

[Lauren Sherman]

That conversation you and I need to have offline. I cannot repeat that. Okay.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. I'm gonna need to know more.

[Lauren Sherman]

And they should taste them because I do think the thing is we. There is also. Do you know about this panettone called from Roy. This is like a very bougie. The guys in San Francisco, he. I think he does collab with people in the fashion industry or like. But they're like really amazing flavors. And every time I'm like, oh, should I buy one? And then I'm like, this is insane. I'm not buying this. Okay. Yeah, that's.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's very. Those are very pretty. They're gorgeous. And the flavor sounds. The flavor profiles are amazing.

[Leah Chernikov]

I would be open to a chocolate one. That's really my major gripe is like, I. I don't want to waste my.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Same way you're chocolate people. Like, here's the thing. For every restaurant, for every restaurant tour listening to this, just have one. When you don't have a chocolate option. Chocolate option. Every.

[Leah Chernikov]

I'm just also shocked when there is one. Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

You could have a Chocolate chip cookie. You could have. Some places just have pieces of chocolate. That is fine. I don't want fruit. I don't want a flan. I don't want any.

[Leah Chernikov]

Never want an apple pie.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, I don't want anything related to anything other than chocolate.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like it just. Just make one thing. It's just.

[Leah Chernikov]

Do you want to know what people also ask for panettone is just because I think it's amusing.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Tell me one is how are you.

[Leah Chernikov]

Supposed to eat panettone? Which to me always like to me feels like the kind of Italian cousin to like the English, like fruitcake, which are notoriously like bricks, you know? Yeah. And then is panettone a cake or a bread?

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh my God.

[Leah Chernikov]

You can. You're treating it like a bread. If you're making pudding it out of it. And. And then what's so special about panettone? So everyone is thinking the same thing.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Yes. I mean, look, like these, these. I'm grateful for my panettones. I think it's a fun thing. But I do think there needs to be a taste test next year and like really be honest. But everybody. The thing is, it's subjective. Everyone's going to have a different answer. But it's a. It's funny, it's. It's interesting that these brands have really gone hard on the food stuffs as gifts, which it makes sense. Like it's more. It's probably a little more affordable. And also, you know, I don't know. I mean, I know people love getting gifts, but I don't. It feels a little more special. Like Prada owns Marchese. The fact that they send the like. That's a nice gift. It's really special. It comes in a beautiful thing. Gucci does.

[Leah Chernikov]

Feels joyful and thoughtful.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Leah, this was so fun. I think we went through everything we wanted to go through and talked for way too long. So it was perfect.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yes. A dream. As always. No one I'd rather spend Christmas Eve Eve with.

[Lauren Sherman]

Same. What are you. So you all are in Montreal?

[Leah Chernikov]

We're in Montreal. When I woke up, it was 4 degrees. I think it's crept to 13. And we're supposed to get 6 inches of snow tonight.

[Lauren Sherman]

So no trek to the Essence Store today to do a channel check for me?

[Leah Chernikov]

No. But I'm here until Friday, so maybe.

[Lauren Sherman]

You could do it.

[Leah Chernikov]

I can report for channel checking duties.

[Lauren Sherman]

Also. Happy Hanukkah.

[Leah Chernikov]

Thank you. It starts on Christmas.

[Lauren Sherman]

I am already late. Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. Thank you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Right.

[Leah Chernikov]

And you're like an honorary La Jew.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. I'm honored that you said that. Okay. I love you. Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, and thanks for being here.

[Leah Chernikov]

Happy holidays. Bye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Bye. Fast Passion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.