Amanda Dobbins (3:39)

This is a true honor. Thank you so much for having me.

Lauren Sherman (3:42)

I am so honored to have a professional podcaster on my podcast.

Amanda Dobbins (3:46)

I think you're professional too. You're. You are not cutting yourself enough slack. You were wonderful on one of my podcasts, jam session. We got great feedback, so I'm excited to continue it.

Lauren Sherman (3:58)

I know this is, this is the, the month of, of jam people.

Amanda Dobbins (4:02)

Jam people. So I still haven't tasted the, the, the Megan jam.

Lauren Sherman (4:08)

I wanted to tell you I was listening to your podcast this morning with your colleague Rob, who has a great podcasting voice.

Amanda Dobbins (4:15)

He does.

Lauren Sherman (4:16)

And I wanted to tell you I do know someone who tasted it.

Amanda Dobbins (4:20)

Okay, well then maybe would that person be willing to do like a call in segment? Yeah, there we go. That's the thing.

Lauren Sherman (4:26)

This person, I don't know if I sent you the quote, this person, I asked can I use this in anonymous feedback online sheet. And she said no.

Amanda Dobbins (4:36)

Okay.

Lauren Sherman (4:37)

Because it's just too close. Everything.

Amanda Dobbins (4:41)

Everything. I'm yes, exactly. This person is close. And it just, it seems like not that much jam was made because yes, I have been trying to find someone who even knows someone. We can have several degrees of separation to. To report on this jam. As the journalist that I am, that there's scare quotes on that. And then I also was straight up like, I'm trying to enter the jam resale market. Like, I offered $100 and there is. I have gotten absolutely no takers, which just says to me that not that like there aren't that many people who have access to the jam.

Lauren Sherman (5:20)

I agree. The only person that I know who got the jam is Elizabeth Holmes.

Amanda Dobbins (5:27)

Right.

Lauren Sherman (5:28)

And I think she said what she said her piece.

Amanda Dobbins (5:32)

So also, I'm doing this for content and so is she. So I thought that was a great marketing move on everybody's part. That was very savvy and Elizabeth Holmes has worked very hard and then she gets to review it on her platforms. But you know that people. When I asked listeners to help me locate some jam, everyone kept sending me Elizabeth Holmes's Instagram as if that was. Would be useful to me. And it's, you know, it's okay. I hope everyone who got the jam enjoyed it.

Lauren Sherman (6:00)

Yes, unfortunately. You know what, though? I think because the, the other person I know, I actually know two people because I know Elizabeth and she publicly got the jam. But I know this other person who got the jam who doesn't want me to send the line. Line about the review of the jam to publish it. I think I probably do know a few other people. I'm gonna do some work on this on my flight home tomorrow.

Amanda Dobbins (6:28)

Okay.

Lauren Sherman (6:30)

Did you have jam for breakfast? And what did you have for breakfast? Because on Friday shows, that's the first question we asked.

Amanda Dobbins (6:35)

So I knew this was coming. And it was a tricky day because I'm gonna tell you, I had a 10:30am Solidcore class shout out. Solidcore Pasadena. I'm a loyal member, thanks to Lauren's recommendation.

Lauren Sherman (6:47)

It's too good. I want this. I went yesterday morning in New York.

Amanda Dobbins (6:51)

It was really hard. Today they did obliques right after core warmup. And I just like, I. I don't have that in me anyway. So normally I wouldn't have breakfast before a 10:30am class. I would just, you know, be coffee with, you know, more real dairy than. Than is. Than most people do. But because I knew you were going to ask, I ate the rest of my son's Greek yogurt with granola and blueberries.

Lauren Sherman (7:21)

Sounds delicious.

Amanda Dobbins (7:22)

And I said no to the leftover banana bread and had the Greek yogurt instead because I didn't want to hear about sugar content from you.

Lauren Sherman (7:30)

The last person actually who was on last Friday, Mark Metric, he said he eats Catalina Crunch. Do you even know about this? As a person who eats real sugar? It's like this cereal that you can get at sprouts. Okay, that is looks sort of like Chex Mix, but it is high protein and no sugar. And there's, you know, net carbs one and they. It comes in like cinnamon sugar.

Amanda Dobbins (8:03)

Okay. I had Michelle's granola. Are you familiar with Whole Foods Best? I think it probably. It says it's grain free on the label. There probably is some real sugar. I'm a person who eats refined sugar. Every day. And so far, I've lived to tell the tale. Michelle's. Michelle's granola, as far as Whole Foods offerings go, is pretty good. The granola inflation is real. I would say prices have doubled by like, or not doubled, but up 50% since we became Michelle granola customers. But it's good.

Lauren Sherman (8:35)

And who knows how much it'll cost when this actually runs? Because this is running during my vacation and that's several days from now, so it might even be triple the cost.

Amanda Dobbins (8:45)

Right.

Lauren Sherman (8:46)

Go to linecheap for more information on tariffs. Just kidding there. Who.

Amanda Dobbins (8:50)

Who knows?

Lauren Sherman (8:51)

Every day it's different.

Amanda Dobbins (8:52)

We can't fit a tab.

Lauren Sherman (8:55)

So I wanted to have you on the podcast for a very special episode. I'm going on a big vacation. I'm not gonna work during this vacation. And I figured what would be an evergreen podcast that the fashion people listeners would be into and would be fun to do. And I've wanted for a while to do our podcast on the Row that I did with Misty White Seidel, who writes for the New York Times, was very popular because we just kind of talked about what made the Row successful, challenges of the Row, et cetera. Please listen to it if you haven't. And I loved it.

Amanda Dobbins (9:29)

I learned a lot, including what a SKU is.

Lauren Sherman (9:31)

Oh, thank you.

Amanda Dobbins (9:32)

That's when I texted you, being like, what is a sku?

Lauren Sherman (9:35)

Yes. A skew. Stock stock keeping unit for everyone. And that is something. And it. It essentially means a style. So if you have a unique skew, you have a unique style. So it. It is like retail jargon that I forget that people don't know. So thank you for asking.

Amanda Dobbins (9:56)

It's okay. I've just added myself as. As the non fashion expert on this podcast, but that's okay.

Lauren Sherman (10:03)

Well, you are pretty a. I. You're pretty knowledgeable, and also you are interested in fashion, and also you are an expert on Sofia Coppola. And I feel like, if anyone didn't notice, Amanda and I are friends. And I feel like Sophia is a shared interest.

Amanda Dobbins (10:21)

Absolutely.

Lauren Sherman (10:22)

And I thought it would be fun to have you on to talk about her, how her film career kind of connects to the fashion industry and why you like her and why you like her movies, but also you like the way she dresses. And it's going to be really fun. I thought we could start with what. What was your, like, first experience with Sofia Coppola? How did you develop an interest in her? Was it through images of her? Was it through her movies?

Amanda Dobbins (10:50)

It was through Lost in Translation, which Came out when I was in college and also crucially was a big Oscars contender. And in fact Sofia Coppola won the Oscar for best original screenplay for Lost in Translation. And I have always been a huge Oscars nerd. Like we're talking 10 years old reading Entertainment Weekly, which is just not the coolest thing that I've ever said in public, but is true. And so I think that I always tried to see all of the Oscar films and I remember seeing Lost in Translation. I also remember it being a movie of interest to the people I was hanging out with and the slightly older people that I knew in college. And I was like, oh, there's something cool going on here. And I was obviously immediately taken by that movie. And then I do think that I sought out the virgin suicides or maybe they, you know, kind of showed it through the film program in college. But I did enough research and I also was probably impacted by that Lynn Hirschberg piece about Sofia Coppola around the time of Loss in Translation because I was also very interested in media and you know, still a big celebrity, celebrity profile. I mean it still matters to me but definitely made an impact. And so I remember I became interested enough that I was their opening weekend for Marie antoinette, which is 2006. So through the movies, but I think in the best way through the movies I learned a lot about fashion, a lot about music, a lot about other movies. You know, she thanks Wong Kar Wai in her Oscar speech or she did and that led me down the road of his films. So she's kind of, I guess been a portal to everything cool in the world that I know about.

Lauren Sherman (12:53)

I think for a lot of people in the Mood for Love. Wong Kar Wai, is that his most famous film?

Amanda Dobbins (12:59)

Yes, I think so.

Lauren Sherman (13:00)

It is the most referenced film in fashion by fashion designers. It is everyone's favorite film. It's Tim, I don't know if it's Tim Blanks favorite film, but it's one of his favorite. It's a number one. So I think that is how it's so closely connected. It's interesting for me it was milk fed her fashion and also The Godfather Part 3.

Amanda Dobbins (13:26)

Oh, interesting.

Lauren Sherman (13:28)

Yes. Because I, I grew up single mom and we used to rent every single movie. So basically a movie from 1985 to 1995 that wasn't a horror film. I've seen, I've seen like truly, madly, deeply like every single movie.

Amanda Dobbins (13:45)

Incredible movie. Anthony Mingala is first, right? With Alan Rickman.

Lauren Sherman (13:49)

It's with Alan Rickman. I have no idea if it was. I didn't even know that Anthony Miguel directed it. But yes. So the. All of that stuff I saw when I was really young. And I remember watching. I watched a lot of movies inappropriately young. Famously watched Twin Peaks when I was 8 years old. You know, my mom was just like, this is great. You should watch this stuff. But I remember watching her in that movie, and she's notoriously very bad. And I didn't think that movie was bad while I was growing up. I guess it's not. It's considered not to be good. But I do remember she wasn't a good, great actress. But my mom said you might look like that when you grow up. So the complex of. The complex of me.

Amanda Dobbins (14:33)

What did she mean by that?

Lauren Sherman (14:34)

She was just like. I could see, like, that's kind of what you're going to look like when you grow up.

Amanda Dobbins (14:39)

Okay.

Lauren Sherman (14:39)

Which, I mean, you know, in. No. No way. But, like, completely delusional. But it was just a thing of. I was. I was like, oh, this woman, this girl. She was still a girl, is, like, beautiful and interesting. And then combined with the fact that I was learning that she had this cool fashion line called Milk Fed, Right. And she was in all the cool magazines and all of that. So by the time Virgin Suicides came out, I think I might have seen it in the theaters, I don't know. But she was, like, already a thing to me in terms of being obsessed with her aesthetic. Her and Kim Gordon and Spike Jonze, who. I definitely didn't know who that was when I was that age. But that whole scene of people became a real thing for me. And There was Jeff McFedridge, this artist who did the logo for Virgin Suicides and worked with Spike Jonze on. I think it was like, Escape magazine. There's a documentary about him that I went to see at that Neutra house that's. Or is it Frank Lloyd Wright in the Barnstahl Art Park?

Amanda Dobbins (15:50)

I think it's Frank Lloyd Wright.

Lauren Sherman (15:52)

Yeah. And they have, like, a little screening room, and I went to see it. Warby Parker did the screening, and Spike interviewed Jeff and. But in the film, Sophia's in it, Spike's in it. And I was like, these are the last cool people that ever existed in my mind.

Amanda Dobbins (16:10)

Absolutely.

Lauren Sherman (16:12)

They were really cool. And Sofia's in, like, a cashmere sweatshirt and all her fancy jewelry, and she still looks so cool.

Amanda Dobbins (16:19)

Yeah, well, they were a type of cool that you and I can't actually attain, but they're a type of cool that I would like to try to attain and to imitate. And we'll. I think we'll talk a lot about Sofia Coppola's personal aesthetic and its influence, like, on our lives. But everything that she wears, does, says, honestly, both cracks me up and is incredibly enviable. And it. If. If I were cool enough and, you know, if I had the means and the pedigree and everything that she had, it is how I would like to. It's how I would choose to dress, live, make art, whatever.

Lauren Sherman (17:06)

I do think you do a pretty good job at capturing the essence.

Amanda Dobbins (17:10)

Thanks. I mean, I really try sometimes I. When I'm packing for a trip, like an adult trip, no kids, and I'm. I don't know, like, what to pack. I just, like, Google Sofia Coppola's street style, and I'm like, okay, so, like, here. I just. I need to get back to basics, right? Like, we. This is. How are we going to put this together? We just wear what Sophia would wear.

Lauren Sherman (17:31)

It's so true. And I was going to bring up the. Rory. Rory. Rory Citron, who is the Wall Street Journal's fashion director, and also Donny Mao, who is the editor in chief of Fashionista. They both written about this. It's kind of like the what would Jesus do of Sofia Coppola? It's. What would Sofia Coppola wear? And I do think. Or would. Or would she buy this? I think Donnie says, what would she wear? And Rory says, what would she buy this? And it is a good. It is just a good. I thought about it on this trip to New York because I had two events where I had to, like, look appropriate. And I thought about, would she, like, what would she wear to these events? And it was easier for me to put it together, Right? So it's probably a small group of people who are thinking this way, but it's a powerful group.

Amanda Dobbins (18:25)

But it's a. Sure, it's a broad reference I always think about. I've always been slightly intimidated by the fashion world. You know, you are. You navigate these circles and runways with ease. And I am fascinated, but I don't really mingle. I just observe. And part of it is because I'm always intimidated by, like, well, what would I wear? And I don't. You know, I don't look like I'm in a fashion magazine. And it's not even that. This is not like a body image thing. It's more just. I would look silly if I were, like, done up for the COVID of Vogue, you know, that's that I have a different path in life. But the reality is, is that the actual fashion people, they dress differently, and they dress with a lot of style, but not with flashiness. And Sophia has, to me, has always exemplified like, the absolute pinnacle of that. And it's a little bit uniform, but it's just every single piece is still exactly what you want. It's lived in, it's not showy, but she still looks very Chicago. And that is. That's how I want to look. So it's. Well, I guess we'll talk about the clothes in her movies, but. And you asked me to put together examples, and I did. And obviously the clothes are really important to her movies, but most of my examples are just like pictures of her on the street in a striped shirt.

Lauren Sherman (19:47)

Right, Totally. And I. And I also think her personal aesthetic is reflected in her films. Like, you think about Marie Antoinette even, and the pink sneakers. Yeah, there. There is. It's so conn.

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Lauren Sherman (20:37)

How would you kind of describe the feeling of her movies?

Amanda Dobbins (20:41)

Well, this is going to sound dismissive, and I, and I don't actually mean it dismissively. I mean it with great respect for her and also for all of the art and the, the media that I'm about to reference. But it really, it is high fashion photography turned into film. It is about, it is young women in beautiful clothes and, or interesting clothes in beautiful places and. Or interesting places perfectly composed, which, like all films should be. But I see a lot of movies and I got to tell you, like, not everybody understands composition and, and done with a particular, like, eye for a frame and a photograph. I mean, she, I think, studied both painting and photography. She references a lot of photographers in her wonderful book Sofia Coppola Archive Sue. And she is also, like, a person who I think has read as as many fashion magazines as we have and reveres them and sees the Art in them, as opposed to the commerciality. And so much of her work is. And her films are about young women and also about surfaces and exteriors versus what's going on inside, what's going on underneath. And so there is a lot of attention paid to the surfaces, the costumes, the. The set, the. The. The actual visuals of what you're seeing to communicate both something about what you're seeing, but also what might be going on behind it.

Lauren Sherman (22:27)

Does she use the same interiors, like set designer every time, or has she evolved it over the years?

Amanda Dobbins (22:36)

I think she evolves it because a lot of times they're filming on location like they filmed at Versailles. They were the first for Marie Antoinette. They were the first film that could ever film at Versailles. Obviously Lost in Translation and somewhere are in hotels, real live hotels that you can still visit. So I. I think. And then, for example, Priscilla, they couldn't film at Graceland. It was a very tight budget. So then they just had to recreate Graceland. So I think it's. It's a little bit of who's available and. And what the task is.

Lauren Sherman (23:15)

How much do you think? Because in terms of costume designers. So she worked on, I think her. I don't know if on Virgin Suicides, but on Lost in Translation, it was Nancy Steiner, let me say that's her name, right?

Amanda Dobbins (23:30)

Yes.

Lauren Sherman (23:31)

Who has done a lot of really amazing stuff. She also did. What's that movie with Carey Mulligan? That. The Emerald Fennel movie.

Amanda Dobbins (23:39)

Oh, a Promising Young Woman.

Lauren Sherman (23:41)

She did A Promising Young Woman, which is interesting because there's an underwear moment in that movie too, right? Nancy Steiner's awesome. She did the Twin, the Return as well. I just think she has. She's really amazing. And in more recent movies, she's worked with Stacey Batat, who is connected to a lot of fashion industry people. I've met her. She's really cool. I've obviously never mentioned the fact that I'm obsessed with Sophia's movies.

Amanda Dobbins (24:08)

Right?

Lauren Sherman (24:09)

But. But it feels to me like if you look at the movies where it's real peop. Real, like set in real life. So Lost in Translation or I guess contemporary or on the Rocks. And those were two different costume designers, but you could see that, like Scarlett Johansson's APC and Eric's underwear in Lost in Translation were Sofia's.

Amanda Dobbins (24:37)

Yes, absolutely.

Lauren Sherman (24:38)

And Rashida Jones striped shirt was Sofia's in On the Rocks. How do you think she works with costume designers to, like, tell more of the story? Cause some directors are really into that and some of Them, it feels like they don't consider it as much.

Amanda Dobbins (24:58)

I think she's incredibly involved and we know that because she's so interested in fashion. I, you know, I have always wondered how conscious the Scarlett Johansson as Sophia costuming in Lost in Translation was. And I think it's pretty intentional, right? Like the, but the button down shirts, the trench coat. You know, as a director, do you think she's sitting there being like, okay, so just dress her like me, or do you think that there is some sort of unspoken understanding between Nancy Steiner and Sophia that we're going for this look that is just stuff that Sophia wears? I think on, on the Rocks she's talked about being a little bit, she's been a little more upfront about the Rashida Jones character as a doppelganger. So maybe there is a little bit of. Or, you know, like a stand in for her, I guess.

Lauren Sherman (25:58)

Yeah.

Amanda Dobbins (25:59)

So maybe there is a little bit more of knowingness. But in terms of, you know, the. Really those are the two real life. Those are, those are the two Sophia stands and stand ins, I guess, though arguably they all are. And then she has things like Marie Antoinette, which is just completely over the top, and Priscilla, which also involved recreating a huge number of costumes. And she'll tell you about, you know, calling in the favors from Chanel and Valentino for Priscilla. She'll tell you about the costume fittings for Brian Antoinette. So I think and, and you know, the color references and I think like the, the directive for Ran Tonette was just like the pastries, like the lingerie macarons were just kind of, let's lean into that. And that really is the color palette for the entire movie, clothing, whatever. So I think she's really involved. I think she thinks of the clothes as a character or at least is an essential part of character development, which they, they really are in all her movies because again, they're about for the most part young women navigating the world and navigating the world's expectations of them and, and, and also like the public and private a lot. Right. Which is another Sophia thing of. She's obviously a person who's been in the public eye in one way or another since she was very young. So how they look, what they're wearing is essential to who they are in the, in the film.

Lauren Sherman (27:37)

She's such an interesting person because she seems kind of shy, but also open. I've only interviewed her a couple times in very, very controlled environments, but I remember once she was like, have we met? Before and I was like, I interviewed you on the red carpet at Versace for H and M. It was that kind of thing. But she feels very comfortable and she's open to doing interviews and talking to people and it doesn't feel self promotional. It feels like she wants to give back to people who are interested in her work and having a dialogue about her work. So it, I think that openness is a reason why of course, you know, she interned at Chanel when she was young and wanted to be a fashion designer and decided not to do it. And you can watch the 824 videos or whatever of her talking about this stuff, but in the way she treats fashion with so much respect and even when she's doing commercial projects with the fashion industry, like she did these windows for Chanel that are on Rodeo Drive, which is like the most commercial thing you could ever do and they're amazing.

Amanda Dobbins (28:54)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (28:54)

She puts, clearly puts an effort and work into it. And do you think like, what is her in your world? What is her sort of respect level? And do you think because she is so interested in those sort of top line aesthetics, it's been hard and also obviously her background and all that stuff, but do you think it's been harder for her to gain the same amount of respect as say like someone like Wes Anderson who is equally as interested. Right. Is a man and you know, who's.

Amanda Dobbins (29:29)

A peer of hers in a lot of way? I think, I think that she is extremely well respected. There still is. You know, I co host a film podcast and with a.

Lauren Sherman (29:42)

Called the Big Picture.

Amanda Dobbins (29:43)

Called the Big Picture. My, My friend and co host, John Fantasy is a cinephile and a huge enthusiast of all types of movies, including Sofia Coppola's. But you know, it is. When a Sophia movie comes out, it's like it's Amanda time. You know, there is something still a little gendered about that, but I do think that her specific vision and her ability to just like to bring what could be lightweight subjects or. That's not fair actually, because I, I think that that's my internalized misogyny. Lauren, I'm sorry, but you know, most people don't take teenage girls seriously, right? And she has taken them seriously and made them the centerpiece of most of the stories in a way. And then, and then made cinema that uses not necessarily the like the rules of dude cinema, but at least recognizable harm hallmarks. She uses serious cinematographers, she uses fine art references. And so people, people take her seriously and I think even men take her seriously. Even if it's like, you know, girls, time to shine. I think I'm sure that the. The dad stuff held her back. And she'll even talk about that, and she'll talk about how Godfather 3 was, like, not a positive experience for her. I mean, she was, like, pretty maligned about it. But I do think now there is this whole, like, Coppola clan thing that's happening because so many of the next generation have gone on to be, like, meaningful filmmakers. Her brother Roman. Jason Schwarzman is a cousin. Gia Coppola, you know, just made the Last show Girl. So I. I think she is taken seriously and maybe because she's working in slightly with higher end references, taken more seriously than someone like, say, Nancy Myers, who. Your point about Wes Anderson and the. And the composition and the fancy clothes and everything being just so is, I think, a good comp. But in terms of stories about women using design and clothes and everything, because Sophia is, like, working with Chanel. Right. And the Nancy Meyers people are wearing beautiful Gap, or I guess Nora Ephron's really the Gap. But it's. It's a lower market, and it does seem like without the gloss, people don't take it as seriously.

Lauren Sherman (32:39)

Yeah, she has the. She's a real fashion person. She's. She's in the. She's in the inner circle.

Amanda Dobbins (32:45)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (32:46)

And everyone should also sign up for Puck's inner circle to access all of my reporting. The interesting thing, point on Nora Ephron versus your girl, Nancy Meyers versus. They're both my girl.

Amanda Dobbins (33:01)

They're both my girl.

Lauren Sherman (33:02)

They're both your.

Amanda Dobbins (33:02)

The.

Lauren Sherman (33:03)

All these women.

Amanda Dobbins (33:04)

I had one moment of sexism, but I'm back and I embrace everyone.

Lauren Sherman (33:09)

They're all your women. I would say, as a person inside the fashion industry, Nora Ephron, to me, totally nailed it every time. And it was more accessible, I think, to. But, like, you've Got Mail was all Marc Jacobs and it just looks like preppy clothes, but it was all Marc Jacobs and Nora Ephron. I remember there was a shoot in like, 2008 or 2009 for Vogue, and it might have been when the neck article, the neck book came out.

Amanda Dobbins (33:38)

I feel bad about my neck. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (33:40)

Yes. Because the funny thing is I'm starting to feel bad about my neck. And I've been thinking about that book so much, but she was wearing all, like, Raf Simmons, Jill Sanders. She had amazing taste. And I think, Nancy, I think you're right. And I thought it's interesting because Nancy Meyer's daughter just did A movie that you really loved, starring Michael Keaton.

Amanda Dobbins (33:59)

Here, let's put in some context. I enjoyed and recommended to you, and you got a lot of plain content out of it and at least one newsletter item. Yes. So in that sense, we all had a lovely time.

Lauren Sherman (34:12)

Yes. And the movie is called Goodrich. Goodrich. But the costumes are so perfect. And I think it is a thing of. They're just the color, composition, the items that they chose. I don't know what designers the actors were wearing, but it just was so specific. And I think that's the thing that all these women share. And you're right. And the funny thing is, when I think about Nancy Meyers and I think about Wes Anderson, my honest opinion is like, I'm pretty much out on him. I am grateful for the last few. And you. You do know that I fall asleep at most movies, so. Yeah, it's not.

Amanda Dobbins (34:51)

I mean, that's. Listen, you travel a lot. Okay. So that's.

Lauren Sherman (34:55)

Yeah, that's.

Amanda Dobbins (34:56)

That's what's happening.

Lauren Sherman (34:57)

That's why. But I would say Nancy Myers, once I realized that she had not directed as Good as It Gets because I thought that for decades.

Amanda Dobbins (35:06)

Right. That's. I really love James L. Brooks. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (35:10)

Yes. And I was like, now I understand why I didn't like that movie. And I liked all. I like a lot of his movies, but not that one. But I think they all have that ability to, like, get to. If you dress a certain way. And it's not about the brands. And that's the thing that is with her, too. Like, I know young designers who Sophia's bought stuff from directly, and it's not fancy stuff, but she just knows the right thing. And when you know the exact right item, it can be very emotional.

Amanda Dobbins (35:42)

Yeah. And she buys the things. And then I spend hours just, like, secondhand Googling. What we don't have enough. Like what Sophia wore blogs, you know, now that. Now that Megan's doing the shop, my. Can what Megan wore just, like, transfer to what Sophia wore? Not that I can afford it.

Lauren Sherman (36:00)

I think you should do. You should start a substack with every time she. She comes out. And you could also shop the show every time she does a film if it's contemporary.

Amanda Dobbins (36:11)

That does seem like a lot of work. I'm not in the affiliate links phase of my life yet. I know that you do it beautifully and. And I've. I've benefited from it many times, but I would love to have someone else do that and me just to be able to click and give Those affiliate dollars.

Lauren Sherman (36:31)

Maybe we should hire an intern.

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Lauren Sherman (37:37)

So let's break down. What are the sort of elements of her wardrobe that you think have that have helped you build your own wardrobe?

Amanda Dobbins (37:49)

Right. I mean, number one, the Charvet shirt, right? And this is not even. I have bought some Charvet shirts from the real, real, you know, as we have all dabbled in our time. But I still have never been to Charvet to have a custom shirt measured for me, as Sophia does. The last time that I was in Paris. I don't get to go to Paris as often as Lauren does. And so I was five or six months pregnant, I think, and we went to Charve, my husband and I, and my husband got a shirt and everyone at Charvet was so lovely. They offered, they were so great. And you know, they offered to custom. First of all, they offered me a seat as soon as I walked in. Shout out the nice people of Paris. Although it was also like, you know, in America no one will say anything, right? And then I landed in Paris and like at the, at the Charles de Gaulle, at the line, they were like, okay, pregnant lady, come this way. And I was like, what happened on the plane?

Lauren Sherman (38:52)

One of the best things about France is that if you have a kid or you're pregnant, you get to skip the line.

Amanda Dobbins (38:57)

Yeah. So I did get the line. Anyway, the lovely people at Charvet immediately offered me a seat. Then, you know, they said, we do make custom shirts for women. If you'd like, to do that. And I said, you know, I don't really think this is the best time for me to be measured for a custom shirt. But. And they, they understood and they said, okay, so do you want to come, like, see the workshop? And so then I just got to go in and just like run my hands over. I didn't actually touch anything but all the bolts of fabric for like 15 minutes. And it was wonderful. So I hope to be able to do that at some point in my life. I've also bought like a million blue and white button down shirts, trying to recreate the ease of whatever shirts Sophia is wearing all of the time. And it is pretty much a staple of my wardrobe at this point, for sure.

Lauren Sherman (39:45)

And Charvet is such a special experience, but it is something that's the thing about the way she dresses is it is just components. And yes, you want to have the brand. I remember she wrote about her stationary brand once, and I went to the shop in Paris and I. You want to have the thing that she has, but you also, you can kind of build it, right? And. And also I. I think, like the striped shirt. You're wearing one today.

Amanda Dobbins (40:14)

Yes, I am definitely wearing it. I thought of it as I put.

Lauren Sherman (40:18)

It on, and I think she has driven. When Chanel was looking for its creative director, Steph Jaakka, one of my old colleagues and who is now, I think her title's editorial director at I D, came on and we talked about, wouldn't Sofia Coppola be a great designer for Chanel? And there is something like the best, not the best designers, but the most impactful designers influence the way real people dress. So Raf Simmons puts a nightgown on Dior's Runway show in 2013, and suddenly Hill House home exists 10 years later. Like, these are the things that are amazing. And Phoebe Filo, a designer who Sofia Coppola wears. I'm sure she has actual Phoebe Filo, the brand name stuff, but she wore a lot of Celine on the red carpet when she was designing. It is like that too. Like, they're the cut of a sweater that I like. Eternal. The turtleneck sweaters we all have still feel inspired by the one she did at Celine. But I think Sofia Coppola has that too. Like what, what do you. The Charvet shirt, the striped shirt. What are the other components of her wardrobe?

Amanda Dobbins (41:31)

One side note, before I do this, just do you know the story of Sofia Coppola and Jane Campion serving on a film festival jury together? And Jan Campion is like, oh, I think that it's, I'm finding all of like the photo ops, you know, and figuring out all the, the dressing to be a little overwhelming. And Sophia's like, oh, I can have a friend send some things. And then like the next day, five bags of Celine show up at Jane Campion, the director's hotel room.

Lauren Sherman (42:00)

I don't think so. That's amazing.

Amanda Dobbins (42:02)

Really, really, really, really elite stuff. Okay, so what else in the Sophia, the, the building block? So, you know, pants are next. A lot of jeans, you know, which is, which is just great. Normal jeans. Not particularly trend focused as I can, as, as I can recall. And then, and then the Carhartt pants. Right?

Lauren Sherman (42:26)

Yes.

Amanda Dobbins (42:27)

Or the, or the Dickies or. She did a New York magazine that's the strategist. Things I can't live without. And she recommended a pair of Noah pants. Men's.

Lauren Sherman (42:39)

Oh, yeah.

Amanda Dobbins (42:40)

I couldn't go as far as buying Noah pants for myself.

Lauren Sherman (42:44)

I agree. I have, I have the Noah Barber collaboration jacket. Barn jacket. That's enough.

Amanda Dobbins (42:51)

Yeah. There are men in my life and, and who love Noah and I think that's great for them. Also. At some point we're just dealing with Sufi. A couple is very petite. I'm taller. I don't really know that the, the men's pants are going to hit me in the same way that they're going to hit Sophia. But the inspiration is there. Right. So sort of work wear inspired trousers and, or jeans with the button down shirts, sneakers and or Chanel ballet flats. A trench coat or a navy or striped sweater. A really, really expensive bag usually that she like, you know, designed with Marc Jacobs or whatever that I can't afford. What am I forgetting?

Lauren Sherman (43:42)

I would say the, the Chanel jacket.

Amanda Dobbins (43:45)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (43:45)

Which I have a junior Watanabe jacket that I bought at Scout that is like the junior version of the Chanel jacket. And I was going to this fancy tee today and I was like, I need to wear my version of that. But I did think of her and she was able to. She doesn't try to look young or, or I don't even want to say, but it looks, she always looks really modern. But yes. That bag that she did with Marc Jacobs in that collection, you know, they're on the real real.

Amanda Dobbins (44:15)

I know, but you know, my life, you know, someday. That's the thing is that when I am, when I'm getting dressed for the day, I'm putting very different things in the bag than Sofia Coppola is a st. Is ostensibly carrying around in New York at this phase of her life, you know, it's like, I don't want the, the, the pouches, the baby food pouches to leak on it.

Lauren Sherman (44:39)

Yes. So what. How do you think she's used this personal style? She launched? She's done a lot of marketing things. So she did a lip balm that we both received as gifts for with Augustine Espader, the great skincare line. Tinted. She did a tinted lip balm. She's done a lot of. She did a collaboration with Berry, the Cashmere Mill, that's owned by the company that owns Chanel, so. And Chanel is a supplier of Chanel, so she did this very. She did an amazing puffer that looked like the one she probably wears on set when she's directing and it's cold, but it was $8,000.

Amanda Dobbins (45:23)

So. Is that the puffer that she is wearing in the photo in front of the fake Graceland gates?

Lauren Sherman (45:30)

My guess is that that is what the puffer that Barry sold was inspired by.

Amanda Dobbins (45:37)

Okay. But we still haven't ID'd that puffer.

Lauren Sherman (45:39)

No.

Amanda Dobbins (45:39)

Okay, that's. If anyone listening can help me out.

Lauren Sherman (45:43)

Yeah. What was the puffer that Sophia Coppola was wearing in front of the Graceland gates?

Amanda Dobbins (45:48)

It's a photo that. It's in her book, but it was used for a lot of Priscilla Press. It's on her Instagram, and she's in the, in front of the gates that they made for Graceland. I'd love a boots ID too, but the, the code is really what I'm searching for.

Lauren Sherman (46:03)

I think there's someone listening who will be able to help with this. So do you think she's parlayed that into her. Into being able to do It's. I mean, I don't know if she would be a person who would be asked to do a big, big budget movie because her, her work is so particular. But a lot of her peers have been asked to do giant movies and get the big paycheck. Do you think that. Because she's not being asked to do that. So she doesn't want to. She uses all these brand partnerships as a way to sort of allow for her. I mean, her husband make money.

Amanda Dobbins (46:37)

Yes. No. She talks about that and she's like, I learned this from my father, who very famously has had many financial ups and downs. That's a whole other podcast series, but ultimately started a successful wine business and then sold off the wine business to fund his last, I think, film, Megalopolis, which I, I saw in theaters. And that's. I'll Leave it there. But she says, yeah, that you, as I learned this from my dad, that you. You do other stuff to fund the art that you want to make so you can make it on your own terms. And I don't. I don't think that she wants to do a giant. You know, I don't think she wants to make Barbie. I. She gave some interview about Barbie. It was. It was like really, really classic Sophia, where she was like, it was cool to see all the colors and how excited people were or something. That's not an exact quote, but that was the. The. The sentiment. And she's. She, you know, she's so wonderful at saying so much with so few words. I genuinely. I mean, I really admire her for it. I don't think she wants to make a Barbie. She was in development for a TV adaptation of an Edith Wharton novel, Custom of the country, which would have been wonderful, but she said it ultimately just didn't work out. A combo of, like, budget and production constraints and just that she was not going to be able to make it in the way that she wanted to make it. And it was really stressing her out. So, yeah, I think that she, you know, works with Barry or works, you know, does all of her spawn con, which I. I say with love and affection, and I buy most of it. I. I can't afford the Berry stuff, but that's okay.

Lauren Sherman (48:31)

In order, you know, that is even too far for me.

Amanda Dobbins (48:33)

Yes.

Lauren Sherman (48:34)

As someone who spends too much on Close, I was like, I can't buy any.

Amanda Dobbins (48:37)

Yes.

Bank of America (48:38)

Yeah.

Amanda Dobbins (48:38)

I looked at the price sheet and I was like, well, close tab. Yeah. In order to be able to keep making the movies that she wants to make the way she wants to make them.

Lauren Sherman (48:49)

Yeah. My dream would be for her to do the Victoria's Secret book that Chantal and I wrote, but.

Amanda Dobbins (48:55)

Oh, my God, that would be so great, though, you know, that is probably contemporaneous with Bling Ring.

Lauren Sherman (49:02)

I. It. The aesthetic is too close to Bling Ring.

Amanda Dobbins (49:05)

And also. And I would say that was the one where that was the most uncomfortable for her. It's my least favorite of her films. I really appreciate, like, all the. The Sleigh Bells song cues. You know, obviously she uses music so beautifully, but she shot that on digital. And I think she even talks about kind of like, this was weird and this was not my comfort zone, and that the covetousness implied in all of that film is, I think, an interesting topic for her. But it's like, she doesn't really. She filmed in Paris Hilton's home. And that was very cool. But, like, that is not her aesthetic ideal, you know, so. And I don't know that Victoria's Secret is either, but she would be great at it.

Lauren Sherman (49:57)

No, it's fine. I'm moving on. So what, what do you see is she's what, like, let's be generous and say she's halfway through her career. Maybe two thirds.

Amanda Dobbins (50:13)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (50:14)

What do you think she'll do next? Because she has been doing more of these sort of projects also. Do you think she has a cut of the Sophia wine?

Amanda Dobbins (50:26)

I. I don't know, actually, because I remember when her father, whose full name we should say, Francis Ford Coppola, a legend of. Of the screen.

Lauren Sherman (50:40)

And a winemaker.

Amanda Dobbins (50:41)

And a winemaker. But when he was speaking about just spending all his money on Megalopolis, which he did, I think he spent upwards of $100 million. And by the way, he was in his 80s. He is in his 80s. So Sophia may just be halfway done as well. But I think he said something to the effect of like, my, my kids won't need any more money. You know, what am I going to do with this money? Like, why wouldn't I spend it on my art? Because everyone else is. Okay. So that doesn't imply a direct ownership or, you know, a cut of the Sophia wine. But. But maybe, maybe her name's on it, I guess.

Lauren Sherman (51:27)

Yeah. And. And if she was getting a cut of it, it wouldn't be in his thing.

Amanda Dobbins (51:31)

Right. So they have hotels, they have all sorts of stuff. I, I'm sure she does, like, a lot of consulting that we don't even know about. And then her husband is a very successful musician, I think probably still from a time when CDs were sold. And obviously he just did 20 minutes at the closing ceremonies of the Olympics, which, like, was a little surprising to me, but I enjoyed it.

Lauren Sherman (51:57)

Yeah. I wonder what he got paid for that. Probably. Probably actually not that much, but. But touring still. I know nothing about the music industry, but touring is still valuable, right? You still make a lot of money off of that.

Amanda Dobbins (52:08)

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't know how much money Phoenix is making, but. But the prominence of Phoenix at the French closing ceremonies did suggest to me that, like, they are very big in France, you know?

Lauren Sherman (52:19)

Oh, yeah.

Amanda Dobbins (52:19)

So that's like, that's what France has for them.

Lauren Sherman (52:22)

Big in France.

Amanda Dobbins (52:23)

So I'm sure they're doing fine.

Lauren Sherman (52:26)

So to close what are. Let's have like a fun round of what are some of the most iconic Images of Sophia that you like. The. The images you think are iconic, the ones that you reference again and again and again.

Amanda Dobbins (52:43)

Okay. I made a whole list. We, obviously, we started with the first one. We referenced the photo of her in front of the gates of At Graceland or fake Graceland. And I literally just wrote in my notes, did we ever ID that jacket? Because I've been on the hunt for that puffer for two years, so maybe this podcast will bring some resolution.

Lauren Sherman (53:04)

I'm excited.

Amanda Dobbins (53:05)

I'm putting. We also talked about street style, but really, all of the photos of her in either a charvet shirt or a striped sweater and jeans and a bag, doing her business around town. Very important to me. Okay. There's a. A photo from. I believe it's the 2010 Venice Film Festival, where she's wearing formal shorts, glamour shorts, if you will, and a shirt tucked into it. I think it's all Louis Vuitton, and I haven't yet found the shorts or the shoes or the heels that will help me to pull off this look or the occasion, frankly. But I. It's something I aspire to.

Lauren Sherman (53:47)

Oh, my God. I remember this.

Amanda Dobbins (53:48)

Yeah, of course you do it. It's like, it works for her, and I think it would work for me if.

Lauren Sherman (53:55)

Yes.

Amanda Dobbins (53:55)

For the right occasion. Like, not, you know, for mom's night out or whatever, but.

Lauren Sherman (54:01)

I think it could work for mom's night out. I feel like we really need to. To go for it. We're going to the smokehouse.

Amanda Dobbins (54:08)

Okay, we're going to the smokehouse. But I don't. I don't think this is smokehouse appropriate. You know, it's.

Lauren Sherman (54:13)

It's Polo Bar appropriate, though. And I have shorts like this from La Mer.

Amanda Dobbins (54:17)

Right. So we can. We can discuss that at a later date, but that one is very important to me.

Lauren Sherman (54:23)

Yeah. Make this work.

Amanda Dobbins (54:26)

The photo of her directing Virgin suicides in the red dress and the slides, iconic. And she says now that, you know, now she prefers to wear pants and a shirt. And she's like, I. I wouldn't wear slides when I was directing, but I think she's. She's incredibly young and glamorous and draped over the camera in a. In a red. I can't tell if it's sequins or lace. Can you tell?

Lauren Sherman (54:54)

No.

Amanda Dobbins (54:55)

Anyway, she looks great, and it's. It's just very cool. And they're like. There are a bunch of those as well. The one of her, like, holding the can of the Sophia Wine and Video Village, I think Marie Antoinette.

Lauren Sherman (55:08)

All.

Amanda Dobbins (55:09)

All of the backstage photos are cool, but that one's great. One more. What else? Oh, no, I have two more. Okay. Photos. Paparazzi photos. I'm sorry for invading your privacy, Sofia Coppola, but paparazzi photos of her actual wedding to Thomas Mars. I legitimately. I held that photo up on our. On my phone to our friend Kate Schlichter. Kate of Lost Hills. And I said, the haircut before my wedding. This is what I want my hair to look like for my wedding. And then, bless her, Kate, she did it because she is a genius.

Lauren Sherman (55:43)

Kate is really good.

Amanda Dobbins (55:45)

She's really, really good. So that one was obviously important. I also kind of had a. I had a Rachel Comey dress that was, like, not unlike that dress. It's. Yeah, she looks great.

Lauren Sherman (55:58)

That is also one of mine. It's an Alia dress. And there's also randomly, a Oulad Johnson dress. Oh, is. It is a similar color. It's like a lavender light, really light purple. It's. And it's funny, I didn't buy it because it's floral, and I never wear flower florals, but it came up. It's on. It's on the outnet right now. I was like, oh, should I get it? But it is. That dress is. It's so beautiful. It is like a sheer lavender. It's truly incredible.

Amanda Dobbins (56:36)

Fantastic. Then there's just the one of young Sophia with Keanu Reeves and the super long hair and the red loafers. That really special stuff. And also, like, a nice reminder that it's okay if you didn't get everything right as a. As a young person, because you still look cool, even if your hair was a little too long and you were still dating Keanu Reeves and. And wearing all black and red loafers. So it's. It. They're all important.

Lauren Sherman (57:04)

Yes, yes. I would say. I would add. There's a picture of her, I want to say, dancing on a table wearing a white shift dress. It was probably 1994 or something. That dress was. Is still something I'm, like, chasing, finding, like, a cute little white mom dress.

Amanda Dobbins (57:26)

Right, right, right.

Lauren Sherman (57:27)

And there is a couple times where she wore, like, things she's worn on the red carpet. I feel like once I saw her and Francis Ford Coppola having dinner at Odeon, and she was wearing Anna Sui, who is her good friend. Her and Marc Jacobs and Anna Sui are all great friends. Anna Sui's so cool. And I think it was just Marc Jacobs birthday, but maybe also Anna Sui's. I don't know. They're all, like, wishing each other happy birthday on Instagram, which is super fun, but she was wearing, like, a sparkly jacket by Anna Sui. And it was. I mean, it was just magical to go to dinner at the Odeon and see them.

Amanda Dobbins (58:07)

Right?

Lauren Sherman (58:08)

Like, just having dinner and the walking out. And I was like, I already didn't live in New York, and. And it makes you want to live here, but, yeah, yeah, it's. It's. It's really special. And I feel like I have things like that. I saw her once at a restaurant in Brooklyn wearing a striped shirt and skinny jeans and ballet flats in 2012 or whatever. And it's the same kind of thing where you're just like, oh, this person is just living in the world. And if I saw her, I'd think she's such a chic woman, but she is. There is just something, like, very cl. It feels very close. Even though she lives this rarefied world, she's also a person who you feel like, you know, and would be friends with or whatever. And that is what, to me, makes her, like, such an interesting creative. She doesn't feel untouchable, even though everything she does is very untouchable in some ways.

Amanda Dobbins (59:01)

Yes. She. I. I just want her recommendations for everything. You know, I want her index. I want her opinion. She. She has impeccable taste. She just does. Right. That's it. It's kind of one of the most perfect exhibitions of taste or taste that is closest to mine and what I think is sophisticated taste that I've ever seen, and you see it in the movies and what she picks to be in her films and who she picks and the music. I mean, she really is. She's a filmmaker. But a lot. A lot of it is. Is curating the perfect, perfect scene of everything that you want. And then she's just the coolest person in her regular life. I mean, honestly, even having your daughter go on TikTok and be like, sorry, I have to make a perfect TikTok about how I got grounded for, like, trying to rent a helicopter to go to dinner with my camp friend. That's elite stuff, you know, I love this girl. It's.

Lauren Sherman (60:00)

She's.

Amanda Dobbins (60:01)

She's really good. She was very good on the one episode of the English Teacher that I saw that she was on. It's a funny show.

Lauren Sherman (60:07)

Yeah, she is. She's definitely winning in that generation of. I don't even want to use the word, but young people who have famous parents.

Amanda Dobbins (60:17)

Yeah, She's. She's doing the most with it. She released A couple singles, you know, just for the hell of it, why not try. She was in Megalopolis. She went to Cannes with her grandfather. Go to Cannes with your grandfather if you have the opportunity, you know?

Lauren Sherman (60:31)

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I'm looking through all these images of Sophia Coppola, and they're all perfect. Like, they're not. There's not one where I'm like, oh, that's the one.

Amanda Dobbins (60:41)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (60:41)

And that, to me is what makes her so special, is that, like, maybe she's not putting a lot of effort in, but it's always right.

Amanda Dobbins (60:50)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (60:50)

She is all. She always hits it. And that is. It's very inspiring and not in a. In a way. You know, it's funny. She was on the COVID of this indie magazine, Polyester. And she's wearing a Coke. The real thing, vintage. And of course, I look for it for hours and. And you can find it anywhere. Right. But she just always nails it. And that is the thing that. And even if you don't like, like her movies and you can't connect with them for whatever reason there is, you just have to respect the ability to, like, have an idea. So many people. And I don't know how you feel when you're. You have to watch hundreds of movies, what, every month, and, and for. For the big picture, but also jam session. Like, you're. You need to understand what's happening in the culture. And in the same way I have to look at a. Clothes. And most of what I look at is it doesn't have a point of view.

Amanda Dobbins (61:50)

Right.

Lauren Sherman (61:50)

It's just sort of floating in the ether and what she does and why. I think she connects with so well with the fashion industry, but any, like, creative force that's working today, you have to have a strong vision. And, and she. She just does. Like, there's no way around it.

Amanda Dobbins (62:11)

Yeah. Bill Murray said that he started calling her the Velvet Hammer because on. On set, I think on Lost in Translation, because it's very polite. You know, as. As we've discussed, she. She is very open, but is also. She doesn't use a thousand words when 20 will do. And, but. And. And she doesn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, but she knew exactly what she wanted and she would get it every single time. And you know, if someone else had an idea like, oh, sure, but can we just. Can we try this first? Because she really. She has. She sees everything and knows exactly what she wants. And I think that's what makes her a great filmmaker. And also you know, an inspiration to me on a daily basis.

Lauren Sherman (62:59)

We see Sophia.

Amanda Dobbins (63:00)

We do.

Lauren Sherman (63:00)

She's everything. And we see her.

Amanda Dobbins (63:02)

We really do.

Lauren Sherman (63:03)

I hope she enjoys this love letter. Not that she's gonna listen to it.

Amanda Dobbins (63:07)

But, I mean, I hope she never listened to a podcast in her life. Honestly.

Lauren Sherman (63:11)

I think she has. I think she has.

Amanda Dobbins (63:14)

You never bless her. You never see her wearing AirPods, you know, which is good. That's another thing that I know is not cool because of Sophia.

Lauren Sherman (63:22)

Yeah, that's actually true. I don't know. I think she dips in or at least gets a summary.

Amanda Dobbins (63:27)

Okay, well, if anyone's giving her a summary, tell her great work and that this wasn't creepy at all.

Lauren Sherman (63:35)

This is my job as being creepy. Amanda.

Amanda Dobbins (63:38)

We're very normal people.

Lauren Sherman (63:40)

We're very normal. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining me on Fashion People. I hope we can do it again soon.

Amanda Dobbins (63:45)

Thank you for having me. It was a blast.

Lauren Sherman (63:47)

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. So special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador.