Calvin Klein’s Return and Hedi’s Last Dance

Summary

Fashion People Podcast Summary: Episode - "Calvin Klein’s Return and Hedi’s Last Dance"

Release Date: February 11, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Fashion People, host Lauren Sherman engages in an insightful conversation with Leah Chernikoff, Executive Editor of Harper's Bazaar. They delve into the latest happenings in the fashion industry, touching upon New York Fashion Week highlights, Calvin Klein’s recent endeavors, the Super Bowl fashion statement, and the departure of Sabado DSRNO from Gucci.

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New York Fashion Week Highlights

Lauren and Leah commence their discussion by reflecting on the recent New York Fashion Week (NYFW). They praise the event's polish and the return of notable designers such as Christopher John Rogers, who made a significant comeback after a five-year hiatus.

Leah Chernikoff shares her excitement about Christopher John Rogers' evolution as a designer:

"He's just become such a much better designer. He's a good designer now. Before, he was a designer with a lot of promise, but now he's really good. It doesn't look like anything else out there."
[04:44]

The conversation shifts to Kate's collection, which they both agree was one of her strongest, emphasizing the brand's clarity and wearable designs inspired by David Lynch. Lauren highlights the cohesive experience with music selections like Sonic Boom and Smashing Pumpkins, which complemented Kate's collection perfectly.

Lauren Sherman adds:

"She does the music herself. I was most interested. I went to the show Ashlyn on Friday afternoon, and I went after Calvin after Form."
[07:00]

They also discuss other brands showcased at NYFW, including Ashland Park and Joseph Altazara, commending their wearable and innovative designs.

---

Super Bowl Fashion Runway

Shifting focus to the Super Bowl, Lauren and Leah explore how the event served as a significant fashion runway, particularly spotlighting Kendrick Lamar's standout ensemble.

Leah Chernikoff praises Kendrick Lamar's artistic and thoughtful appearance:

"I thought it was fantastic. It was really managed to pull off something really nuanced and felt like commentary on the moment."
[13:23]

They dissect Kendrick's outfit, debating whether his jeans are bootcut or flared, ultimately agreeing on their versatile appeal:

"Do you think we're gonna start seeing guys wearing bootcut jeans or flares? I say yes."
[19:53]

Lauren notes the cultural significance of the outfit:

"It kind of spoke to where our fashion is in the current culture and where our culture currently is."
[17:24]

The discussion also touches on other players' fashion choices, highlighting the mix of designer labels and personal touches, reflecting the players' individuality within the luxury market.

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Sabado DSRNO's Departure from Gucci

A pivotal moment of the episode centers on the news of Sabado DSRNO ending his collaboration with Gucci.

Lauren Sherman initiates the topic:

"One other thing I wanted to really quickly discuss with you is last week's news that Sabado DSRNO is leaving Gucci. They are ending their quote unquote collaboration and we wish everybody the best of luck."
[21:51]

Leah Chernikoff provides context on Gucci's history with designer tenures, comparing Sabado's short stint to previous designers like Alessandra Fraccionetti and Frida:

"I think Frida was given the job and was there for 10 years and did a lot of really good work and built up the business."
[23:40]

They speculate on the future direction of Gucci, considering options like hiring a renowned professional designer or introducing a young, visionary talent. Leah expresses optimism about the brand's resilience:

"I think it's going to be okay. It's just, you know, all this stuff is very public now."
[26:01]

Lauren reflects on the significance of this change for Gucci and the broader fashion industry:

"It was an interesting moment for that business. And, you know, just looking back, their last three designers now design Prada, Chanel, and Alaïa."
[28:24]

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Closing Thoughts and Upcoming Fashion Events

As the episode winds down, Lauren and Leah briefly touch upon other notable moments from NYFW, including actions like protests at Outside Coach and preparations for upcoming events like Burberry's presentation in London. They emphasize the dynamic and ever-evolving nature of the fashion world, expressing excitement for what lies ahead.

Leah Chernikoff concludes with enthusiasm for future collections:

"It's so crazy, right? It's really nuts."
[28:40]

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Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive overview of recent trends and notable events in the fashion industry, offering listeners valuable insights into designer dynamics, fashion evolution, and cultural influences shaping contemporary fashion. Through engaging dialogue and expert perspectives, Lauren Sherman and Leah Chernikoff deliver a rich and informative discussion that caters to both fashion enthusiasts and industry insiders.

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Notable Quotes:

• Leah Chernikoff on Christopher John Rogers:
  "He's just become such a much better designer. He's a good designer now."
  [04:44]

• Lauren Sherman on Kate's collection:
  "She does the music herself. I was most interested."
  [07:00]

• Leah Chernikoff on Kendrick Lamar's Super Bowl outfit:
  "I thought it was fantastic. It was really managed to pull off something really nuanced."
  [13:23]

• Leah Chernikoff on Gucci's future:
  "I think it's going to be okay. It's just, you know, all this stuff is very public now."
  [26:01]

• Lauren Sherman on Gucci's designer legacy:
  "Their last three designers now design Prada, Chanel, and Alaïa."
  [28:24]

---

For more detailed insights and ongoing coverage of the fashion industry, visit Lauren Sherman's online coverage at Puck News.

Transcript

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[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line sheet and today with me on the show is Harper's Bazaar Executive Editor Leah Chernikoff. We're talking New York Fashion Week, Kendrick Lamar's jeans, the future of Gucci, and so much more. Happy Tuesday everyone. I have lost my voice so I am keeping this short, but I have enjoyed chatting with so many, many of you this week, voice or no voice. So be sure to check out my coverage of the shows online sheet. I also have intel on what's happening in Europe as well as stateside. And no, I do not know how much Sabato D Sarno severance package was. I don't think any of you do. Who knows if that's even been worked out yet? But if you have that information, please message me. You know how to find me. Signal dm respond to the email. Let's just get going with Leia Leia Chernikov, welcome to Fashion People.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Hello. Lauren Sherman. Thanks for having me.

[Lauren Sherman]

I've seen you twice today already.

[Leah Chernikoff]

I know. I've. We've gotten so much quality time in. It's just like the old days.

[Lauren Sherman]

We really did. I wish you were coming to Europe.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Me too. Maybe someday I'll come back. We can rent an apartment together.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Remember we used to rent an apartment. It was so fun. And we'd stay up till like 3 or 4am yes.

[Leah Chernikoff]

We would go to Monoprix and I would get all my little snacks and just like be eating Pringles at three in the morning and like dipping them in. What's that little triangle cheese.

[Lauren Sherman]

I remember the hummus variety. Every time I go to Monopri, there's.

[Leah Chernikoff]

So many good dips.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, there's so many good dips at Monopri. I still, every time I go, I just buy them all.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Delicious.

[Lauren Sherman]

So I clearly do not have a voice. So we're gonna go through this very quickly. But there's just so much to cover.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Let's do it.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm gonna let you talk. So we. We're recording this at 4pm We've gone all the way up through coach. We started with Mark and Brandon Maxwell on Thursday. What have you thought of the show so far?

[Leah Chernikoff]

Um, let's see. I. I thought there was a lot of polish. You know, it was cool to see Christopher John Rogers come back to the Runway after five years away. Right. I think I got that right. Um, and it was just like a. I thought it was a really polished collection. We both, we touched base after Kate too. That was like a, you know, an amazing built out, crazy set at the Armory and also just felt like a really slick offering. Like clothes you could just imagine people wearing right away, which I think is what New York Fashion Week does best, is like imagine clothes you could be kind of moving through your life in. Yeah. What have you thought?

[Lauren Sherman]

I agreed about. I agree about Kate. I think it was one of her stronger collections and really clear about what that brand should be, which is clothes that women just want to buy. There's not really. She did have a big story this time. She was really inspired by David Lynch. Kate, I think, is the same exact age as us and we have a lot of the same references. Like very, very rarely do I go to a designer and I know what the references were. But with her, it's happened to me many times. Best soundtrack in New York. Sonic Boom and Smashing Pumpkins. It was really good. She does the music herself. I was Most interested. I went to the show Ashlyn on Friday afternoon, and I went after Calvin after Form. And these were all brands that I would say come from the lineage of old Celine, of Phoebe Filo, but especially Celine Phoebe Filo. It was interesting to see the designers still referencing old Selene and the designers referencing new Phoebe Filo. Some are doing both. But it was an interesting progression because I think Calvin, there's something there, but it's early, and I wish there was a little more newness or you could see a little bit more of Veronica Leone in it. But Form, I thought, looked good and was an improvement with the new designer, Frances Howey. And then. But the thing was, the real showstopper was this Ashland park, which Kathy Horne had told me about a couple seasons ago. And I had heard of just other people covering it, but I'd never gone to see it. And honestly, I was just blown away. I thought, like, for the customer who was the old Celine customer who's moved on, this was just such a beautiful collection and full of ideas and wearable things, and it was really told a story. And she showed in this little art gallery in Tribeca, and she's an interesting person. She's worked in the industry for 20 years. She worked at Yoji, she worked for Alex Wang, she worked for RAF at Calvin, and she started her own brand in 2020. And it was like all these years of working for other people, you develop your own language, and that's what I would say. It wasn't even a story. It was a language. It's almost all knits and the way she layers them and sculpts them. I just loved it. Like, it was. I really wanted to do a personal order, which is, you know, very rare these days, but I thought it was great. I also thought Christopher John Rogers, you could really see the progression of what he was doing five years ago and now, and he's just become such a much better designer. He's a good designer now. Before, he was a designer with, like, a lot of promise, but now he's a really good designer. It doesn't look like anything else out there. And I thought it was a fab show. I thought that Joseph Altazara's show was great. It. It looked. It was really fun, and there was a lot of wearable stuff, but he's such a great. He really designs clothes people want to wear.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yes. I've been a fan girl from the very beginning, as you know, and I'm always delighted.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. And I loved this morning. I really loved Wes Gordon's. Carolina Herrera. I thought it looked fab. It was so, so polished in the way it needs to be, but also tight. And I just thought it was great.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah. Yeah, me too. And I really liked. He's so good at delivering, you know, exactly. What I think is probably that the clientele really expects but also offering something new. Like I loved those big white blouses with the kind of big crinoline skirts that were sheer underneath when you know, we're used to a lot of form fitting evening dresses. But that felt unexpected and was very charming.

[Lauren Sherman]

I agree. I thought it was sort of nodding to Carolina's white shirt.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah, totally.

[Lauren Sherman]

She was the white shirt expert. But also their Spanish and Madrid and all of that. And I love the crinoline under the khaki trench coat too. I think it's really fabulous.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

How have you felt overall? Are you excited? What did it, did it make you excited for anything in Europe?

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah, I think so. You know, it's like the world feels so tumultuous right now. It's sort of interesting to think about what ideas will catch on that feel right for this moment. And obviously people are designing these collections months before, so it has to be a kind of kismet of like something striking the right time in the right moment. So I'm excited in Europe to see which designers are going to present those ideas that really feel like, okay, yes, this is, this feels right for right now, you know, and I think that often those really directional, strong ideas come from Prada or, you know, some of the big shows in Paris for sure.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm excited to see the next Phoebe. I heard from some buyers that she's really expanding her store network, which is exciting. And I think it's going to be available at a lot more places starting next year. So it'll be nice to be able to try that stuff on more.

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[Lauren Sherman]

Away from new York Fashion Week, though, there was another, another Runway. The Super Bowl.

[Leah Chernikoff]

That's right. Which is.

[Lauren Sherman]

Was a huge fashion Runway.

[Leah Chernikoff]

The biggest Runway.

[Lauren Sherman]

The biggest Runway. Not only the tunnel at the beginning of the show with Travis Kelce in his Amiri suit, but also. And all those other players whose names I don't know because I don't follow football, but really happy for my friends who are Philadelphia Eagles fans. I know.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Lauren, is that not you, our Pennsylvania hometown girl?

[Lauren Sherman]

Pittsburgh is seven hours away.

[Leah Chernikoff]

That's true. Are you a Steelers fan?

[Lauren Sherman]

I do not. No. I don't care about football at all. Except for my fantasy football league, which I desperately tried to win. I got really into it. Anyway, what did you think of Kendrick Lamar?

[Leah Chernikoff]

I thought it was fantastic. I was just thinking, how hard is it to pull off something that feels really artistic and emotional and really thoughtful at the Super bowl, you know, a place that's just like, it just feels like it's about the biggest pop star at the biggest moment on the biggest stage. And it's about like, you know, big lights and fireworks and I don't know, I just thought it was really managed to pull off something really nuanced and like, it felt like commentary on the moment. And also, obviously, we're going to get into the fashion. Those. The Martin Rose. Right. The jacket was incredible, but those jeans, like, are have gone viral. The Celine flares, I think some people were calling them a boot cut at first, but they're distinctly flared.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think they're boot cut.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Really? Okay. If on the, on the, on the caption, they call them flares on the.

[Lauren Sherman]

Celine post look, you can say what you want. And I think I Love that we're.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Gonna have this debate. Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think we actually used the word flare in the subject line of line sheet on Monday where I suggested it. Cause I don't really care. They're kind of interchangeable. But it was so to me, a flare starts really flaring out at the knee extreme. Whereas that. It did flare out, but it more like pulled at the bottom in the way a big cut does. But I think you could argue for either. And they are almost interchangeable. But I did love that Eddie Slimane posted about it from his personal account in the third person, which was awesome. I love him so much. He's so great. Never change really quickly. Because I want to sort of break down Kendrick's outfit. I thought that Samuel L. Jackson in Bode was also really interesting, especially because she had done that Runway show on Friday with gq. And I just thought that that was like you mentioned saying something about the current moment, like him dressed like Uncle Sam. I just thought. And also I'm very interested in the sort of doing away with monoculture and he's such. Kendrick Lamar obviously is extremely famous, but how many podcasts have I listened to to try to explain the battle with Drake to me? Because I don't understand it.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Has anyone successfully done that for you?

[Lauren Sherman]

No, I still don't understand. I have literally listened to probably seven podcasts about this, and this just goes totally over my head. But I think that the fact that they chose him and that he didn't play all of his hits and all that stuff, I just thought it was a really interesting moment in our culture that was reflected in the clothes and those jeans. Sure, they're like, why 2K fashion's back, all that stuff, but they are a much bigger statement than that. And the Martin Rose jacket, which I thought was amazing also.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah, I think that when we think about making a statement, that jacket probably says more. I think obviously probably the most of the people watching the super bowl or let's say a lot of them are our age. We're like, you know, middle aged millennials who remember those jeans from when we were young. So they like, freak out. Like, I can't believe these genes are back. But, you know, it's also probably, you know, for our purposes, more important and maybe even like in terms of saying something that he is wearing a jacket by Martine Rose. So that's like a woman designer, like a label that, like, isn't as well known and. Or maybe it is, but, you know, feeling it says more.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, yeah. And it was also, I Mean, Celine is what, a several billion dollar business, but at the same time, a lot of people watching super bowl have never heard of it. And it kind of spoke to, like, where our fashion is in the current culture and where our culture currently is. Like, it's not. It's not just Ralph Lauren at these things anymore. Not that Ralph Lauren isn't great. They are, but. But it's. It's changed. And. And the. The labels that you choose. I also thought the tunnel walk was interesting. Like, most of those guys were not wearing big designer labels. There was one guy was wearing a suit that was made by a local tailor. One guy was wearing his dad's mink. I'm sorry, I don't know these guys names, but I don't. You know, it's not my thing.

[Leah Chernikoff]

I'm sure people will come to tell you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, they definitely will. But I just thought it was interesting because it just, I think, reflect, you know, these players are consumers of luxury goods, and the fact that, like, none of them were wearing head to toe, whatever was really interesting. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. I thought it was like a really fun, fun night for. For followers of fashion and for Philly fans.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Lauren Sherman]

Were you excited? Did you care who won or not?

[Leah Chernikoff]

I didn't really care. I believe there are some politics amid the Chiefs players that I don't align with. So happy for the Birds to win it, I guess. But it's not really. No, it's not really my thing either. I think, like, I grew up in Washington, D.C. and that town really loves its football team and there's a rivalry with the Eagles, so I don't know. I grew up, I think, thinking you were supposed to hate them, but, you know, I'm. I was mostly excited about Kendrick, and I just. I felt like that was really an incredible show. And the fashion story was so unexpectedly interesting too. Like, who thought his outfit would be the viral story the next day?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Do you think we're gonna start seeing guys wearing bootcut jeans or flares?

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah, I do. That's it. I say yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. Yes to flares for all Levi's. 51 7s are a great starting point there.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Look at the service, the service provided on fashion people.

[Lauren Sherman]

Always a little service.

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[Lauren Sherman]

One other thing I wanted to really quickly discuss with you is last week's news that Sabado DSRNO is leaving Gucci. They are ending their quote unquote collaboration and we wish everybody the best of luck.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm curious from your perspective, who do you want to see go there?

[Leah Chernikoff]

Oh God, you know, I'm, I'm terrible at this kind of who should be and what I'd like to see. I, I do think that I feel like I can. I'm not very good at like keeping up. Like that was pretty short, right? Can you provide some context in the history of designer tenures about that stint and what do you think it means for the future of the brand that you haven't written about extensively yet?

[Lauren Sherman]

Sure. It, it's was I think under two years which yeah, in some ways it feels like maybe they should have just nixed it after the first collection because it wasn't working. And again, as I've written many times, I don't think it was anyone's fault. I think it just was not the right Fit and everybody tried. On the other hand, there's an argument that he deserved three years to prove himself. And if our world didn't work the way it works, he would have gotten it. But caring's a public company and Gucci is their profit center and their revenue center. So, like, it needs to work. I think it's funny, this sort of happened at Gucci. After Tom Ford left. He had a bunch of designers under him and three of them got elevated to do men's, women's and accessories.

[Leah Chernikoff]

And that was in between. Before Frida.

[Lauren Sherman]

Before Frida. Frida was the accessories designer. But there was this woman. I believe her name's Alessandra Fraccionetti. Probably mispronouncing it or missing a syllable or something, but she was the womenswear designer. And I remember it very clearly. Cause she really used that Gucci floral a lot. But she was in and out in a year and she was elevated publicly, even though all three of them were technically designing it. And then Frida was given the job and was there and was there for 10 years and did a lot of really good work and built up the business. So it's not shocking. But I would say, like, I am really at a loss of what they will do because there's an argument that they should hire someone like Eddie or Maria Grazia, if she were leaving Dior or whatever, and just get a real professional who can like very quickly turn up the noise and make it good. And the problem with that is, you know, that's not a long term solution. It's sort of like a band aid. It's a five year solution or a seven year solution. The other argument is that they get like a young interesting designer like this guy Dario or Simone from Bali, and it's just someone with a really strong vision and change it. The third thing they could do is like not really have anyone and just focus totally on product until they find the right person. I truly have no idea what their plan is. From the reporting I did last week, they did not sign someone. But maybe they have and we'll see. But it's an interesting situation. The thing is, it'll be fine. Gucci is a very important brand that we all love. The consumer loves. In a year or two, it's going to be okay. It's just, you know, all this stuff is very public now. And so the world has changed in a way that when this happened in 2005 or whenever Tom Ford left, like you weren't reading about it every single day on the Internet. And that's the big difference.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Yeah. Well, who can say? If you don't know, then no one knows. No, we didn't talk about Calvin.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Did you already on a pod?

[Lauren Sherman]

No.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Okay. But I was, like, thinking about the week, and I was like. Well, that was, like, kind of the biggest news, right, Was that the collections returned to the Runway. I mean, it was just exciting to have it back on the calendar and to be in that space. Felt nostalgic to have that assemblage of talent in that room for the show, too. Felt very exciting to have Calvin himself there flanked by Kate Moss and Christy Turlington and. Yeah, just, like, amazing stars. So that it just, like, the whole execution of that moment felt really big and fun to behold. And the collection, it was. I don't know. I think I was expecting maybe like, a bigger swing, but it's sort of hard to take on something with so much nostalgic appeal right now and how to sort of figure out what to take and what to break. Um. And, yeah, I mean, it's tricky, so she'll. She'll figure it out. I think it was exciting. And she seemed to be exuberant and happy at the end, which is, you know, exciting.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, there's a lot of love for her.

[Leah Chernikoff]

What did you think?

[Lauren Sherman]

You can read my thoughts online sheet at Puck News? No, but I would say, like, look, this is hard. And there was a lot of stuff in there that made sense, and there was stuff that didn't, and we gotta give her a chance. And also, there is a lot of love for her in the European design community in particular. Like, she's the real deal, and so let's see what she can do. I would like to see more of her ideas. Yeah, yeah. But it's an interesting moment for that business. And, you know, just looking back, look, their last three designers now design Prada, Chanel, and Alaia.

[Leah Chernikoff]

It's so crazy, right?

[Lauren Sherman]

Really nuts. So it was definitely the highlight for me of. Of fashion week here and looking forward to going home and then going to London for Burberry.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Oh, yeah, you're really. You're hitting em all this week. There was also. Did you see all the action? The protest scene at Outside Coach was very raucous.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did you take it in inside? There's something happened at the beginning that KCD and the security quickly made go away, but, yeah, it was. They were talking about stuff that I don't want to be harassed about. So let's not go over it here.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

Leah, it was great. I'll see you tonight at Tori.

[Leah Chernikoff]

I will. Very soon.

[Lauren Sherman]

Great. I'll see you in a few hours.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Okay, bye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Talk soon. Bye.

[Leah Chernikoff]

Okay, bye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Castle Kelly executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.